Hustle Her - Tina

When Tina Laws, renowned intimacy coach and relationship expert, sat down with me, Deshay Caines, we didn't just rehash the common relationship rhetoric. Our conversation unearthed the raw and often silent battles within abusive relationships, the importance of maintaining one's identity after saying "I do," and the powerful legacy we can build when we properly balance our work and personal lives. Tina's revelations about the significance of seeking professional help and her insightful advice for couples and women in leadership roles offer a blueprint for those navigating the complexities of love, ambition, and self-discovery.

Ever wondered how to keep your sense of self when your world revolves around others? This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on embracing individuality in marriage and the transformative power of stepping back from a high-stress job for the sake of your health and relationships. From the simplicity of Tina's skincare routine to the intricate dynamics of family silence amidst abuse, we journey through personal anecdotes and expert insights that remind us of the strength in vulnerability and the growth that comes from hardship.

As Tina Laws shares her admiration for 50 Cent and opens up about her own personal journey, you'll find yourself moved by the honesty and encouraged by the advice imparted. We tackle the heavy topics with heart and clarity, unafraid to confront the silent struggles and celebrate the triumphs of women everywhere. Join us for an episode that's as much about finding your pathway to joy and success as it is about the honest conversations we need to have along the way.

Episode Transcript

Deshay Caines (00:00):
I'm a hustler baby.
It's time for Hustle Herpodcast.
I'm your host, deshae Caines.
Hustle Her is all aboutinspiring women through real
life experiences that havehelped to mold and develop not
only me, of motivation, a bit oftough love and some actionable

(00:26):
takeaways to be the best.
You, girl, you are in the rightplace.
Hey guys, and welcome back toHustle Heart Podcast, as always.
Thank you so much for spendingsome time with me today.
I really appreciate it.
If you're watching this episodeon YouTube, make sure you like
this episode, but also make sureyou head over to the page and

(00:46):
you subscribe, as always.
Go to wwwhustleherpodcastcom tosign up to be a VIP listener.
We give some really coolgiveaways to our VIP listeners,
as well as being able to get allof the episodes a little bit
earlier than everyone else andaccess to the show notes as well
as the blog.
Super excited about my guesttoday she is the amazing Miss
Tina Laws.
She's also an accreditedintimacy coach and a

(01:09):
relationship expert.
Thank you, thank you for havingme today.

Tina Laws (01:14):
Yes, how are you?
I'm wonderful, wonderful.

Deshay Caines (01:18):
Okay, so we're going to start off with a few
rapid fire questions, so ask aquestion.
First thing that comes to mindtell me okay, all right, I'm
happiest when with my family.
All right, what do you do on aplane after you put up your
suitcase and you sit down?
What's the first thing you liketo do?
Talk?

Tina Laws (01:39):
talk my husband saying awful to you.
I was sitting with me.
Why are you nervous?
Yeah okay, you don't like tofly.
I don't like flying.
Okay, all right, so but yeah,your skin is amazing.

Deshay Caines (01:49):
Tell us the skincare routine soap and water
that's it literally soap andwater oh, I wish that was my
skincare routine.
Not at all.
Somebody takes my coins everymonth okay when you got your
first big paycheck.
What do you remember spendingit on?
When you spend your moneyyourself?

Tina Laws (02:09):
Probably something for my children or my family.

Deshay Caines (02:12):
Okay, all right.
Who's your closest friends?

Tina Laws (02:17):
Well, my husband is my buddy buddy, but that's the
pillow talk guy.

Deshay Caines (02:22):
Everything right.

Tina Laws (02:23):
But my closest I would say my mom Okay, yeah, my
mom and my children.
And then there's amazingfriends that I have.

Deshay Caines (02:30):
Yeah, I love that .
Okay, what does love feel like?

Tina Laws (02:35):
Oh, my goodness, Love just feels.
I'm on a podcast, right so, butlove feels connected committed
kind sexy, loving, um justunderstanding, connecting with
somebody where you don't have totalk, they understand, they get

(02:55):
you.
That's love.
That's my husband and I's love.

Deshay Caines (02:59):
I love that.
What are you listening to rightnow?
Music podcasts.
What do you like to listen to?

Tina Laws (03:07):
Myself.
I don't have much time tolisten to anything, so when I
get those times of silence forme, that's exactly how I spend
it in silence.

Deshay Caines (03:17):
Okay, and then?

Tina Laws (03:20):
what's a hidden talent?
I have many of them, but I'lltalk about one that I would like
to have as a hidden talent.

Deshay Caines (03:27):
And.

Tina Laws (03:27):
I would love to get into boxing.
I love boxing Really.
Love, love, love, love boxing.

Deshay Caines (03:32):
Okay, all right, so you go to all the fights and
everything, not all of them butI need to, but I watch them.

Tina Laws (03:38):
That's the only thing that I get an adrenaline rush.
Nothing else moves me but that.

Deshay Caines (03:43):
Really, wow, the adrenaline rush.
Nothing else moves me aboutthat, really, oh, wow, okay.
And before, your husbandgrowing up, who was your
celebrity crush?

Tina Laws (03:50):
well before my husband.
I didn't have any um celebritycrushes, but it was always 50
cents.
Really, girl, I'm a gangsterbehind the scenes 50 cent and
vaseline snipes, to be honest,okay, okay.

Deshay Caines (04:06):
Well, tina, you learn something new every single
day all right, and then finally, who's your cart match team oh,
St George's, oh, who else?

Tina Laws (04:17):
all right.
And you know, I grew up in ahouse interviews over.

Deshay Caines (04:20):
Interviews over.

Tina Laws (04:22):
I knew that's what my family when I was a young child
growing up, everybody wassomerset my mom, my brother, my
sister and because my dad, whichhe lived in st george's and
steel doors I said I'll stickwith my dad's team, st george's.
So that's my team.

Deshay Caines (04:36):
All right, lara's finally got, uh, a person on
her side right now.
There you go, there you go,literally.
Oh, everyone, everyone todayhas been some, as lara's been
three against one all day.
I've got you there we go therewe go.
So you mentioned your dadliving in St George's, so tell
me about your time as a child.
What did you like to get into?
What were your sports?

(04:57):
What did you like to play with?

Tina Laws (04:59):
I was never into sports, Really Never never,
never.
You know what I did.
I did a lot of playing with mydolls cutting hair.

Deshay Caines (05:10):
That's one of the things that I do really, really
well, that's another hiddentalent.

Tina Laws (05:12):
I could be here right now we really cut.

Deshay Caines (05:13):
Yeah, expert, yeah, yeah, I even went to
school for it.

Tina Laws (05:14):
That's something people probably nails I did all
of that, um, but when I wasgrowing up, it was more so just
playing with dolls and beinginside, being with my mom, learn
how to cook and those type ofthings.
Rerun, redecorate my home.
What was changing around mybedroom?

Deshay Caines (05:30):
that's what I did oh, I love changing around my
bedroom or like my house.
I love a little change aroundyeah yeah, I did.

Tina Laws (05:36):
I was.
I was always a child thatalways believed that I didn't
fit in.
Why I?
Because I didn't laugh andother people laughed.
I didn't.
I didn't um associatingclusters like other people did,
and so now that's a gift, but atthat time I was like am I old?

Deshay Caines (05:54):
yeah, okay and so and so that was as a little
girl.
So when you went into highschool and you said you
mentioned about going tocosmetology school and stuff,
what made you want to do that?

Tina Laws (06:06):
because I always liked hair.
I liked beauty.
You know, if anybody knows me,today I have this haircut and
next week I'll have weed.
I tried a week that didn't workout for me, but I like changing
hair.
I like hair, I like makeup, Ilike, and I don't wear a lot of
it but I just like beauty, Ilike transforming people.
I like people to be transformed.

Deshay Caines (06:24):
That's the one thing we can do overnight yeah,
change the way we look our hairand change our face if we wanted
to yeah, black woman superpower, absolutely no, I absolutely
love that and I love that we'reembracing it more as well.
You know, like back in the dayit was like, oh, I don't want to
do that or maybe I should waituntil it looks this way or that
way, and if that's's what I feellike doing today, that's what

(06:44):
I'm going to do.
Absolutely yeah, and Iabsolutely love that.
That's our power.
Exactly no, I totally agree.
So in your bio you have listedas an experienced relationship
and intimacy consultant and anaccredited mediator.
Walk me through how you got tothese things.

Tina Laws (07:00):
So let me just start with this.
One of the things I didn't saywas, from very young, I was
solving people's problems.
Oh my goodness, I don't knowhow I even got in that position
of everybody turning to me, andeven when I was a teen in a
relationship which we'llprobably talk about a little
later, that was unhealthy andeverybody for some reason
thought it was the perfectcouple, and so they all came to

(07:22):
me.
You know, how do you this, howdo you that you're committed,
and so forth.
But, um, I think when I ranaway to school as an adult, I
remember praying and saying lord, please take all these people
from.
Everybody just leans on me forthese relationships.
So that's something that Iwanted to run away from.
But once I got into school andI found that was happening
continuously of people I didn'teven know, yeah, I said, okay,

(07:42):
lord, what's really going onhere?
What's your reason in all ofthis?
So I got certified many, manyyears ago, before people were
even talking about coaches orrelationship coaches.

Deshay Caines (07:51):
I just did it, or life coaching yeah life
coaching and stuff like that.

Tina Laws (07:54):
So one of the things that I decided later on, which
is now, is do what you're goodat.
Do what people turn to you for.
Do what your heart desires.
Do what you're most passionateabout doing.
Do what you really do and doreally well.
So that's why I do what I do,and becoming an accredited

(08:14):
mediator is.
A lot of my professional careerhas been in the prison system
right, because I have a master'sdegree in criminal justice and
working within the prison, Ilearned so much about how to
manage conflict and situationsI'm sure offend us, yeah, or
with our colleagues alike, right, because I'm keeping it real
here and so one of the thingswas that I learned this is
really, really necessary, and soI went and got accredited and

(08:36):
here I am, yeah, I love that.

Deshay Caines (08:38):
So how does that weave into the relationship side
of it like mediating, becauseI'm assuming that you talk to
couples as well.
Well, with intimacy, how doesthe mediation pair with?

Tina Laws (08:47):
that so, funny enough , every relationship, most of
the issues or challenges youhave, it's called conflict,
right, so why not?
But just so I clarify, I'm amediator that specializes in the
working environment.

Deshay Caines (09:02):
Ah okay, same techniques, different people
yeah situations and scenariosbut that's how they fit in for
relationships any situation,anybody has a breakup or problem
.
It's conflict yeah, it'susually conflict and people not
knowing how to talk through ityeah, that's usually based
around communication or the lackthereof?
Yeah, definitely so.
Under construction came to playbecause of what so?

Tina Laws (09:23):
So in 2016, a girlfriend and I we actually
were sitting in our office I wasworking as a preparation
officer at the time and she hadleft her business and I said you
know what am I doing here?
And one of the things that Idid and I did quite often was I
used to work with a lot of womenprofessional women in abusive

(09:43):
relationships.
A lot of people didn't know it,I just did it because that was
something I did and me being asurvivor, that was just second
nature to me.
And so it was probably a yearin, or maybe a couple of months
in, I said you know, I need totake this full time Because I
was one of my clients and if shelistens to this, she'll know
One of my clients.
She worked at an exam company,I'll say that and she was a

(10:04):
leader of a team.
And she came to me and she saidTina, why don't you do this
full time?
What is wrong?
And I said I don't know.
I never thought about it.
What's the calling for this?
So I started doing domesticviolence for professional women
and families because clients hadsaid to me Tina, we need you,
we need you as a private entity.
And so I said because clientshave said to me Tina, we need

(10:25):
you, we need you as a privateentity, wow.
And so I said okay, because Iknew myself as a survivor.
I had never went to a charity Ihave nothing against a charity,
right but I just felt usBermudians were very private.
What goes on in our hands staysin our hands.
That's what parents orgrandparents or
great-grandparents say.

Deshay Caines (10:45):
So that was a service that I figured I'll
offer to professional women inthese roles, wow, and so you
created this safe space for themto feel comfortable coming to
you to have these conversations.
So sometimes you know the bestpeople to talk to are the people
who have been through differentscenarios and they know how to
kind of guide you through that.
So you mentioned that you're adomestic violence survivor, so
can you tell me a little bitmore about how you survived?

Tina Laws (11:06):
Oh my goodness.
Well, thankfully and I saythankfully because I was a teen,
right, I was a teen.
I became a mom and one day Ijust decided, watching my son's
actions.
One time in school I said thisis time I need to get away,
because what we don't thinkabout sometimes we just look at.
We love somebody, somebody.
We think this is the perfectrelationship.
You know, we have children.

(11:27):
Some people don't, but if youhave children, you want to grow
up and keep your children withtheir parents right together as
a family.
Um, and because my mom was asingle mom, that's something
that I wanted.
yeah, definitely died for rightbut I think it got to a point of
where I saw my son displayingcertain things that only he
could have displayed because hehad seen, yeah, and so that was

(11:47):
my breaking point for me to saybye-bye, and I never turned back
, wow so dealing with domesticviolence as a teen.

Deshay Caines (11:55):
How did that impact your family, your
immediate family like?
Did they know about it or wasthat something you were hiding?

Tina Laws (12:01):
I was hiding, I, oh yeah, I definitely didn't tell
anybody because I knew that if Iwould have told someone because
I still thought I loved him andI knew now that was in love
with just a team- right it'samazing how we look back and
like that was in love, yeah, andit was what a joke.
Yeah, but um, because I I it'sfunny enough while I was in that
relationship I didn't wantanybody else to not like him

(12:23):
while I was trying to figure itout myself, because I knew deep
down that I wanted to stay.
If only he, and it was alwaysif only he.
Right.
And so it got to a space of howmany times are we going to say
if only he.
But for me it was my son, butfor other people could be a
broken arm, chipped tooth, blackeye I mean, I had one of them
too but it could be many thingsas to why people stay.

(12:45):
But I think when we get pastthat stage of if only he or if
only she because women areabusive too right, if only he.
That was the breaking point forme to say walk away.
But also for me to say you know, as a teen, you know what you
need to be a representation foryour son.
You know you need to be arepresentation for your son.

(13:05):
You know you need to be arepresentation for your son.

Deshay Caines (13:07):
But the point you did ask because I could get
real deep in there.

Tina Laws (13:09):
It's okay, no, please explain, I never said anything
to my family because one Iwasn't sure when I was going to
be fully finished Gotcha, andeach time I was finished I was
hoping they would get helpHeaven's earning this from her,
because we didn't even knowwhere to go at that time.
Right, and as a guy, that'ssomething we never talked about
and Bermuda seldom talks aboutthat Right, but that's that's

(13:36):
prevalent Right.
So, um, for guy needing help.
So I didn't say anythingbecause I was hoping he'll
change.
And the other thing was I justknew that he might be in a lot
of trouble if I told my mom andmy brother what would have
happened to him.
I just kept it to myself no, no,no.

Deshay Caines (13:47):
I get that yeah.

Tina Laws (13:49):
I just kept it to myself.
But later, after walking awayand sharing bits and pieces with
my mom bits and pieces I foundout that she too was a survivor
Wow.
And so I wish now, looking back, I would have said something,
because she could have told mewhat I can tell my daughter now
and or son, but at that time Iwas embarrassed, I didn't want

(14:10):
to say anything because I washoping it would work.
It was just so many things youthink about.
We could save each other, wegot each other's back, we love
each other.
You know all of this and my son.
So you think and say, well,maybe I shouldn't say anything
right now until I'm sure and itreally wasn't until 2017 when I
went public in Royal Gazette asa result of a client going
public to say I was a survivorthat I tell everybody.

(14:33):
Nobody really knew.
And it was probably two weeksbefore that, my son laid across
the foot of our bed and I saidI've been asked to tell my story
.
And I said you don't know this,but this is it.
What is your thoughts?
And tell my story.
And I said you don't know this,but this is it.
What is your thoughts?
And once he gave me the clear,I went full speed ahead.
So it was I had captured asecret, and I've still kept a
lot of things just to myself,but I kept it a secret for so

(14:54):
many years but why?

Deshay Caines (14:56):
why do you feel like back then?

Tina Laws (14:58):
because I think nobody talked about it, right?
Nobody.
Much more people talk about itnow.
But when you look at breastcancer, you look at HIV, you
look at autism and the variousthings that people talk about
that they have.
Now we do all sorts of walksand Relay for Life.
Everybody's talking about it.
So other people are comfortablewith coming on and saying I

(15:18):
have breast cancer, I have thiscancer, I have prostate or even
prostate for men.
They're talking now, but at thattime you very seldom heard any
conversations around it and theconversations if you did hear
those conversations it was morelike shh, shh, keep it a secret.
You know, or listen?
We've been married for 100years and we just let that
happen.
All you have to do is A, b, cand D to make things work.

(15:39):
Just keep quiet and do what hewants you to do.
Basically, so nobody reallytalked about it.
And then you think about thisperson was in college, so he had
a reputable family per se,right, and so you don't want to
embarrass people, soeverything's a secret at that
time.
So I'm still at it, trying toprocess in my mind how can we

(16:00):
make this public for everybodyto know that?
It's okay, he was in thesituation, it's okay, and know
that it's okay.
It was in the situation, it'sokay.
And no, it's not okay to beabused.
No, it's not okay to think thatsomebody's going to change.
You're not crazy, but what isokay is that you get help.
What is okay is that if youstay for 10 years, you still can
be provided with support whileyou stay.
Yeah, you know many people don'ttalk because they're not ready

(16:20):
to walk away, but a lot, lot ofmy clients they stay.
Sometimes they go back, theyleave and go back.
So my support is supportingthem while they stay.
My prayer is that they walkaway, because you think about
what if he pushes her and hitsthe end of the table?
What if that one day where hekills her or she becomes a
vegetable, he becomes avegetable?
But in the interim, how can webetter help people?

(16:43):
How can we better support them?
How?
But in the interim, how can webetter help people?
How can we better support them?
How can we better be their heirwhen family is sick and tired
of telling you just leave?
So a lot of what we hear fromeven agencies is just leave.
It's not that easy and for themost part, a lot of people don't
talk because you tell them toleave.
So I'm that person.

Deshay Caines (17:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
So when you look back now,right, and you think of that
time in your life and everythingthat you had going on, what
would you, in an advice youwould have given to yourself
during that time, what would youhave said to your younger self
in that moment to kind of, maybe, if not going as long, or just
what advice would you have donein that time?

Tina Laws (17:19):
frame one trust yourself.
We don't trust ourselvesbecause at a young age we really
don't know who we are, so wejust trust what we think other
people think that we're supposedto be doing got you.
The other thing is findourselves some hobbies.
Find that thing in which wewould like to do for ourselves.
Find a thing that you couldadvance in.
Go to school, pick up a hobby,you know.
Find something that you reallylove to do outside of any

(17:42):
relationships yeah, okay, andthat's, I think.

Deshay Caines (17:45):
When you have something else to kind of hold
on to or to look forward to,you're living for not just that
person, you're living for you aswell.

Tina Laws (17:53):
So I'm assuming that that's the guidance behind that
absolutely okay and I thinkthat's what happens to many of
us, not just young teens, butrelationships period.
You get in relationships andpeople become that, becomes
their life.
I love my husband.
I'm in love with my husbandafter 100 years, but guess what?
he's not my life, yeah, youunderstand.
So, the things in which I wantto do, I focus on them, and I

(18:13):
can do that too, because I havea supportive husband, right, but
had he not been supportive, Iwould still do it, because
that's just who I am now got you.
So I and I found things that Ilove to do outside of I'm
married.
I'm going to do everything withmy husband yes, I do.
However, what's that thing inwhich I enjoy doing?
What's that thing keeps me up,sometimes, most nights?

(18:34):
You know what's that thing Icould do as an independent woman
, so I can be proud of myself asan individual person.

Deshay Caines (18:40):
Yeah.
No, I think that's reallyimportant because sometimes, you
know, we see it especially, youknow, as we all get older and
in our friends and things,people who are very just focused
on and there's nothing wrongwith being a mother and a wife,
do not get me wrong, that's notwhat I'm saying but what we then
see is that morphing of, whenthe children get older and they

(19:02):
move out of the house or theyget a divorce the struggle to
know who they are, who you are,struggle to know who they are,
who you are.
Um, so how do we help women?
Or what advice would you say towomen who are in that position?
Um, right now, and they'rehappy, right like the wife, mom,
doing all the things, but mightnot necessarily know who deshae
is or know who tina is whatwould you say to help them to
not be in those positions?
should you know, the childrenare going to leave regardless,

(19:23):
but if divorce were to happen,um what would you give?
What advice would you give them?

Tina Laws (19:27):
so one of the things I do is try to prevent divorce,
but what I often say is that wecan't tell people what to do.
Yeah, right, um.
And so what I usually would dois ask them what do you see for
yourself, what are some of thethings in which you would like
to do or always dreamed of doing, but you never done it because
you became a mom, like me, forone, um, and, and why not do it?

(19:48):
Let's get together, let's workthis out how can we?
get you doing it right.
Just try, even if it's a courseor something, try it and see
how much you like and then let'sjust go full for it, let's
advance in it.
So I would say to people youknow one, you don't have to
divorce unless it's reallyabusive and not healthy.
But I say one, find out who youare as individuals, because
that's where we get lost.

(20:08):
I was a teen mom, so all I knewwas motherhood.

Deshay Caines (20:12):
All I knew is survival.

Tina Laws (20:13):
All I knew is that I had to do what was best so that
my son and my daughter that'scoming behind me they could see
a great example which you don'tusually see until they're now
adults.
But that's all I knew.
I knew I had to survive.
I knew that I was mom andpeople say who are you?
At that time it was I'm a mom,right.
And so what I would say topeople is that once your
children are out empty nestlelike us were empty nestles but

(20:36):
once your children are out, it'dbe good if you could do it
beforehand.
But if you don't find thatthing in which you always
thought, I wonder, wonder if Ican.
I wonder if I can be aninterior designer, I wonder if I
could cut hair, I wonder if Inot everything's a gift.
You figure that out too.
But I say do some research,just venture into some of the
things in which you like to doand, yes, some couples do things

(20:57):
together Absolutely but youhave to find that one or two
things that you enjoy doing byyourself.
That way you can feel likeyou've accomplished something on
your own, not just being amother or a father, but on your
own.
Who am I now Right.
So I would say find that thingin which you like to do.
So that's usually what I dowith clients I find out where

(21:17):
they're at, what do they want,and then when we find out what
they don't want, then we try toget you there.
I love that.
So tell me how you met yourhusband.
Oh, my goodness, you know how Imet my husband?
No girl sitting at a bar,listen, my girlfriend.
Actually, my girlfriend hadmachine.
She had invited me out, right,and she said come on, let's go.
And I had been through, I hadum, cut off my ex and I was like

(21:41):
I'm not doing this anymore.
She said you can't, you'rebecoming a hermit, just get out.
And I had started going tochurch.
I had started going to church.
Right, I started going tochurch and, um, my grandmother's
70 event is.
So I grew up 70 and I grew upSunday, but that's another story
anyway, that's a lot of trashgirl.

Deshay Caines (21:57):
Oh my god, oh my goodness.
I hope somebody understandsthat okay.

Tina Laws (22:02):
So, um, I, I, I, my girlfriend, come on, let's go
out.
And I said, okay.
So it was her and anothergirlfriend and we said let's go.
We went to Anchorage it's clearas dawn now, but anyway, I
think it's Stars or whateverit's called now but nevertheless
we went, and any time I wentout I was all to myself.
Guys always say we don't wantto talk to you because you're
friends, whatever.
So, anyway, I was sitting thereand, funny enough, I never,

(22:25):
ever do this and my girlfriendwould tell me she shouldn't tell
anybody.
She's actually told this storymany times.
I was sitting here at the barand I never sat at the bar, but
I sat there.
It was real quiet and I saidlet me order a drink.
Okay let me do this Now.
I had to.
I got a Bacardi and Coke,that's what it was, and I saw
this guy walk in.
He was over to the end.
He walked in looking around.

(22:46):
I said who are you looking for?
So my girlfriend said hey, sheknew him.
So I said who's that?
Uh-oh, and she said who's that?
You went, brother, come here,come here, come here.
And we just sat and startedtalking and she was sitting in
between us.
I don't even remember hermoving.
She said she just, we was likethis in front of us.

(23:06):
She said, let me just excusemyself, that's all I'm at.
Was it because she was in mywedding as well?
But she knew because I hadnever asked somebody to
introduce me?
And it just I don't even know.
So, even though we met in thebar, I had been praying prior to
that that God.

Deshay Caines (23:24):
Let the Lord use you in any way.

Tina Laws (23:26):
It doesn't matter where it is.
That's why I say you know, goduses anyway, but um, that's why
I can't discriminate.
We can't judge people.

Deshay Caines (23:32):
You sure can God uses things you have to those
stars.

Tina Laws (23:35):
No, I'm joking so what happened was, um, from
there I said you know beforethat I said, lord, find me
somebody for my son and I findme somebody that nurse me.
All those things and you're asfull speed ahead.
That's everything I prayed for.
Is who he is, and more so, eventhough we had little trials and
tribulations in the beginning.

(23:56):
More so because I had been in arelationship and he never knew
even that I was coming broken.
So it was me and myrelationship that had to do a
lot of healing and change andand and really addressing some
of those things that I boughtfrom the previous relationship.
But overall, his patience.
I know he loves me because I'ma piece of work.
So I was a, I was a major pieceof work back then, so he hung

(24:19):
around.
So, yeah, that's it.
That's how I met my husband.
I love that, love him, and I'mstill.
I said the other day, we, Istill love him.
Everything about love, love,love him.

Deshay Caines (24:27):
So I knew that's God.
Yeah, absolutely, and you knowwho cares about where it was.
But, like you know, that's whoyour person was meant to be.
That's who your person wasmeant to be and that's how that
goes.
Yeah, so you talk about, youknow every relationship has
issues, right or challenges thatyou work through and things
like that, and you're anadvocate for not divorcing,
obviously extenuatingcircumstances.

(24:48):
Put aside that we have thatassumption.
What are some of the things andtools that couples need in
order to not get to the pointwhere they're getting in a
they're having a divorce becauseof x, y and z?

Tina Laws (25:00):
yeah, one of the things I find is that we become
so comfortable that we thinkit's okay to just be comfortable
and that.
And I said it like that because, for instance, um, we think
it's okay you meet your husbandlooking like that, how beautiful
you look, sitting there, right,thank you.
And then, yeah.
And then five years insometimes one for some people,

(25:23):
but time, five years in, hedon't even remember who you were
.
He's looking in shock like whois this?
Now?
Everybody like I'm.
My husband don't like makeup.
He loved my hair when it waslong and so I do what I like
with that.
However, however, know we haveto keep ourselves appealing, but
not just for him or foryourself, right?
And so when you start goingdownhill, that speaks a lot

(25:46):
about what you're going through,what you're feeling about
yourself.
So when you don't feel aspositive and as confident, as
pretty about yourself, how areyou conveying that to your
husband?
So now you're not as sexy asyou used to be, looking in the
physical appearance and neitherdo you feel it.
So what do you think is goingto be transferred to your
husband?
Never thought about it likethat, right?
So people say to me my goodness, you got this color her, do

(26:08):
this, that color.
I crack a joke and say, well, myhusband's got this one today,
that one today, that one today,right.
But the reality is that's justhow I try and keep the spark
right, not just for him but formyself.
So if I feel good, if I look inthe mirror and I say, girl,
yeah, girl, you're one bad mama,you look good, right, I do that
even though my husband don'tlike lipstick, he prefers I not

(26:28):
cut my hair.
I look in the mirror, honey,you look good.
He sees me like that because ifhe don't, somebody else will.
That's a given.
Yeah, let's keep it real.
It's the truth.
Yeah, I mean, I'm notinterested in nobody else.
And likewise him, somebody else,him too, it's called the real
world, and I think, sometimes weget lost in TV.

(26:51):
We get lost in TV, but I think,you know, that's one of the
things that we do.
We become too comfortable.
Sometimes we take each otherfor granted, right, and so it's
so many areas that we have tofocus on or not in our marriage.
And I think sometimes one ofthe things I find, too, is that
we include.
Maybe our career takes overthat's one of the reasons why I
work with leaders, right and inin this area, as women, but our

(27:13):
career takes over.
That takes precedent, right?
And our family.
Sometimes we invest so much intelling everybody, even our
friends, telling everybody aboutwhat we're experiencing and
that your husband or wife hasn'ta clue, right, and so we're
looking for everybody else tofix these relationships rather
than us being present in ourrelationships.

Deshay Caines (27:31):
What is your view on people who talk about their
relationship issues to otherpeople?

Tina Laws (27:37):
well, I would say I'm not professionals, like to
their friends, just babble onyeah and you hear how I say
babble on, because that's whatit becomes right it becomes,
especially because most of usI'm not gonna say I had never
done it most of us who do thatand do it often we seldom take
the advice.
The reason we keep doing thisbecause we're not taking the
advice and you're telling theperson saying being over, yeah,

(27:59):
right.
So I I would say now, at thisstage in my life and my career,
is that you know we have peoplelike me and other people who you
can support, that can supportyou confidential and could give
you sound advice.
Yeah, absolutely think about it.
When you talk to your friendsand family, the heart's in it
for you.
So the minute you say somethingthat sounds like it it when you
talk to your friends and family, the heart's in it for you.
So the minute you say somethingthat sounds like it's going

(28:21):
against you or hurting yourfeelings or all those things,
they'll be crying with youautomatically.
It's like I don't want him foryou, I don't like him, and you
see him, you're telling him offand that shouldn't happen
especially if you're married.
That shouldn't happen.

Deshay Caines (28:30):
Yeah, and Then, once you've forgiven them, they
haven't.

Tina Laws (28:32):
Oh, absolutely not, it's just tense all over the
place, Tense all over the place.
And the reality is to me that'skind of being, that's like
you're being deceitful.
Yeah, because does your husbandor wife know you're sitting or
talking to he or she about yourpersonal things and information
that you haven't even talked tothem about or worked out?
Yeah, yeah, no, I wouldn't wantthat.

Deshay Caines (28:54):
Yeah, absolutely worked out.
Yeah, yeah, no, I wouldn't wantthat.
Yeah, absolutely, and thenyou're not giving, you're only
giving one side of the story aswell, right.
So the advice that you'regetting back is not a well-run
opinion.

Tina Laws (29:01):
It's not because and if you know your friends, you
should know too that I alsooften say to my friends you want
me to tell you truth or do youwant to hear what you want to
hear?
and they say well, tina, I'masking because I know you're
going to tell me the truth.
I said well because I know howdidn't tell me the truth.
I said well because I know howyou are.
You have to stop A, b, c and D.
That's why he's doing it.
So sometimes that happens too.
But, like you said, we willtend to take our friend's side

(29:22):
more than anything.

Deshay Caines (29:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think.
And it's difficult to kind oflook at it from a holistic
perspective when you're investedright In the relationship, from
a friend perspective or asibling or whatever, um, but I
think you know, as relationshipsmorph and grow and people in
your life, they, they can tendto try and be balanced.
But yeah, I do think talking toprofessional is definitely the
way to go 100, and I think it'salso, I know, in the black

(29:46):
community.
For a really long time, seekingprofessional help was frowned
upon or you didn't talk about it.
I think we're getting to abetter place now where people
are seeking help, more so thanthey ever did before.
So that's really helpful.

Tina Laws (29:58):
It is, and I find a lot of men like I started
working with a lot of women.
I work with women, but I workwith men as well, because men
are calling to say well, tina,what is wrong with my wife, or
what do I need to do to fix this, or how can we fix this Okay?
Whereas before they didn't.
Can we fix this right?
Um, whereas before they didn't.
But what's happening?
I think now, since the pandemicmostly too, I think people

(30:19):
realize listen, I don't care whoit is, I just need somebody
that's going to help me.
And if somebody else refers,that's how I got a lot of
clients.
If sally say a tn, is great,let me try.
If it don't work, it don't work, but let me try it anyway.

Deshay Caines (30:31):
Yeah yeah, because people are looking for
the additional help and I doagree with you this COVID as
well.
I think that people were losingtheir mind, being stuck in the
house with people.
They didn't like that.
We spent a lot of time together, right?
So let's talk about um, I guessthe pivot in your career to
becoming an executive director,and the role that many people
aspire to.
But can you share with me, I, Iguess, how important this

(30:53):
achievement was to youpersonally and professionally at
that point in your life?

Tina Laws (30:57):
Sure, sure sure, well , from a young girl, like I tell
you, I was always the old oneout.
But I knew I always wantedfamily.
I knew I always wanted to saveus women.
I don't know why I feel likewe've got to be saved right.
But growing up back then and Igrew up back in town, happy
Valley, and I'm sure your family, could relate.

Deshay Caines (31:12):
Absolutely Not far from your old family.
One time for the HVs.

Tina Laws (31:15):
Right, I saw a lot.
I saw a lot of conflict.
I saw a lot of fighting.
I saw a lot of mix match offamilies.
I saw a lot of a lot, yeah.
And so me being that person thatwas always on the side,
standing and learning from otherpeople that seemed like they
really knew him and I wasn't itgave me a great opportunity to
do a lot of observing otherpeople, and so I saw those

(31:37):
people that this one didn't lookright.
That didn't look right.
I said, well, wait a minute,something's not right there.
Even though I couldn't figureit out back then, I always knew,
growing up through teens andadult and into that role, I
always knew I wanted to helpsave somebody.
So that was a role that Ifigured wasn't specifically that
place, but that was a rule inwhich I wanted to accomplish

(31:59):
okay, because I knew that wouldbe the rule in which I can fix
and save everybody.
And, um, I prayed for that foryears, but then I realized that
that wasn't what God had calledme to do.
He called me to do that.
He just didn't call me to do itthere okay.

Deshay Caines (32:14):
so at what moment did you realize that that your
demanding career was taking atoll on your marriage and your
wellbeing as well, Cause you putin your bio that you were
having some physical challengesduring that time too?

Tina Laws (32:25):
I think three months in, I was there for 12 and that
was a stretch.
But three months in I realizedthat it was changing who I was
as as a person, and one of thethings that, for me, is
important to me is that at homeat least I have that safe space
at home.
Yeah, at least, in spite ofwhat goes on outside of my home,

(32:45):
I know I can go in, I can laugh.
If my husband, he could fix it,he can give me a hug and I feel
, okay, that became a change,got it?
That was more so.
I was, I was becoming somebodyelse, I wasn't sleeping and all
those things, but, um, so thatstarted impacting my marriage,
but so much so that, as asmonths went on, I was like I was

(33:06):
trying to hoping he could fixit for me.
You know, I was talking to himand it's like what can I do
about this?
What can I do about that?
How can I handle that?
You know, and it becametiresome for him, I'm sure, but
because I was stressed out aboutit, I wanted him to fix it.
So that was stressful for him,because he is one to usually
help me see things from a totaldifferent light.

(33:27):
He couldn't, because he saw itfor what it was Like.
I saw it for what it was, whichwas a good thing for once,
because usually he says now tinais not that, but this time he
saw it for what it was right,and so I think that was the
challenge.
And then let me talk abouthealth.
Girl, I lost my hair.
People don't know this, butyou're gonna know.
I lost my hair.

(33:48):
I had a big patch in the frontof my head and the back.
Stress.
I wasn't sleeping, um, and I'venot.
I've always had thick, healthyhair.
I lost my hair.
Thankfully I had enough to pullit over and then I got weaved
so that was normal for me sonobody knew.
I suffered with vertigo.
My doctor was sick and tired ofseeing me insomnia.

(34:09):
I was becoming so stressed ofmy role, just being in a place
that I shouldn't be in, that itmade me sick, and so me being
sick, me being stressed what doyou think that happened?
What happened when I?
got home exactly because hecouldn't fix it yeah, um, he
couldn't fix it, but he knewthat I wanted a role as such, so
he didn't tell me to walk away.
So it was 12 months in and acertain situation took place and

(34:33):
you know, I I was privy toallowing my husband to even
overhear what, what had happened, um, because it was on the
telephone and that was thememory where he, he, knew
himself.
It was time it was all of thator I get sick, or he'd be
visiting me somewhere where Ishouldn't have been, where I
walk out of.
So, yeah, so we had to makethat decision, um, but you know

(34:56):
what, on the flip side of that,it took me a while to get
through that and over there,because I felt like I failed our
community.
But now, and it's been for awhile, god allowed that.
Why?
Because it got me in a positionwhere, for years, I've worked
with women, professional women,and I've heard the stories, I've
heard the cries, I've heard thestories, I've heard the cries,
I've heard how they've managedor not in a marriage and or in
the working environment.

(35:17):
I've heard all this stuff thatthey do it by colleagues and
bosses and board members, andI've heard all these stories.
But I know now.
God allowed me to be in thatrole so that I can personally
not only did I experiencedomestic violence, not only did
I grow up in a time where I sawconflict many of us did in our
culture, but I also now wassitting around the table and

(35:39):
personally experienced it.
So now when I sit with people,I honestly can say I understand.
Before I say I understand, buthow can we do this.
Now I say, oh my goodness, Iunderstand.
So how can we do this so youdon't lose your hair like I did?
Got you.

Deshay Caines (35:56):
No, I totally get that and I think I think the
flip side to what you're sayingnow and understanding where
you're coming from, and a lot ofpeople don't understand that
perspective, they have this kindof judgmental view because even
in your bio it says you choseto walk away from a job that you
wanted to save your marriageand for your health.
So what do you say to peoplewho don't get that and don't

(36:16):
agree with?
And not saying that they haveto agree with your decisions but
don't agree with your decisionto walk away from a job that at
the time thought was, you know,the holy grail to save your
marriage well, you know, notevery.

Tina Laws (36:29):
So one of the things I do is help you not to do what
I had to do.
Um, if I had planned it better,if I had had the tools, if I
knew what to expect, I probablywouldn't have taken the job from
the beginning, but I did so forpeople that's experiencing that
now.
I don't tell everybody to walkaway, because everybody don't
have that entrepreneurial spirit.
Everybody's not like me withouta parachute.
That's me.

(36:50):
So how do you manage?
You have to sit back and reallythink about how is this
impacting you?
Yeah, right, and remember thatif you are married, if you're
married and or in a committedrelationship, you have to now do
some reassessing.
What does that relationshiplook like?
Because you need that blow Likewhen you get that blow, you
need that cushion.
Where's that cushion comingfrom?

(37:10):
Yeah, you can see a therapist,you can see a coach, like people
see me.
But you also, when you go homeand lay your head down, you want
that cushion to be that cushionand you want that person next
to you.
You want them to be thequestion too, absolutely.
And so I say what start there?
Start there.
You don't have to leave.
But if you're like me and youbelieve God's got a greater
calling on your life.

(37:30):
Do what you have to do, youknow, but don't do because
somebody else tells you to do.
Don't do because that was mystance.
Do because you feel this iswhat you've been called to do
for me.
I knew I wasn't supposed to bethere the third month I never
felt like I belonged.
I walked around there every day, never felt it, never.
And I said Lord, why aren't Ifeeling this?
And now, a year later, I saidwow, okay, lord, now.

(37:53):
I get it like I I get why I wasthere.

Deshay Caines (37:55):
I get that I've got to help other people now.

Tina Laws (37:57):
Yeah, right, and also there are so many more things
for me to do that I see that Iwouldn't have never been able to
do in any of these spaces,right and so, yeah, so I'm very
happy about taking thatopportunity.
I'm happy that I listened totwo of my close girlfriends that
are in HR two businesses,successful businesses to just

(38:19):
stick it out, stick it out,stick it out for a year and I
was like it's killing me, Idon't know um, with everything
that was going on with it.
I see now that that made senseto me.
It made sense to me because nowI'm better equipped.
I saw other women.
Other women had talked to me intheir spaces and said you know,
oh, my god, just hearing thesestories.
I've sat around boardrooms.
I've I've seen people show upin certain environments and be

(38:41):
cruel.
I've've seen people and notcruel because they wanted to.
Sometimes it's cruel becauseyou don't know no better, and a
lot of it comes from when youleave her.
You bring a lot of your masswork.
So back to why is it importantthat if you're in a marriage and
you're in a leadership role oryou're leading somebody else's
life, you need to make sure youhave a plan?
Because if you don't have aplan to succeed, what happens?

(39:04):
You fail.
So for me, that rule taught mehow to be the better me.
That rule helped me tounderstand other leaders in
these positions.
That rule helped me to get intoall the homes in Bermuda all
over the world Berlin,switzerland, london.
The homes that I get intovirtually, praise God for that,
but that will help me to now sitright next to somebody to say I

(39:26):
understand and experience in it.
I can say this is what you cando next or not.
Do so for me.
I.
I I'm credited to that becauseI say Lord, thank you.
That's all I can say.
I didn't understand it, but Idon't, I don't argue, thank you.

Deshay Caines (39:42):
Thank you.
No, I totally understand thatand I think we're in a time now
where we hear these things thatwomen should or can have it all
right, and so sometimes afeminist can look and say I
can't believe she left her jobfor her marriage.
You should be able to do both.
Your husband should understand.
But given the context of whatyou've said here today, like

(40:04):
what is your hope that peoplewill take from your decision to
do what you did, well, one, I'mhere to help you so you don't
have to do.

Tina Laws (40:10):
That's one.
But two follow your heart,follow your life, and what I
mean by that is, if it's killingyou, it's not worth it.
How many people have had heartattacks and lost their lives
because they've been stressed?
I have a girlfriend that losther life from being so stressed
out on her job in a leadershipposition.
There are many people, sothere's a lot of reasons why I

(40:30):
do what I do.
Right, yeah, but there are manypeople that are going to work
for the sake of money.
I make all this money and mylifestyle goes with it.
So how can I leave?
Well, I'll tell you what yourhealth is more important.
So my health took precedent mymarriage.
That person that god said whatyour health is more important,
so my health took precedent mymarriage.
That person I go to said thisis your person and he is my
person.
That took precedent Because,even though people look and say
my husband will never tell mewhat to do, well, if that's your

(40:52):
partner, what is a partnership?
So, if you are in partnership,both of you either or should
feel the disconnect, and thenyou should be like you should be
like a scale, you start tiltingsomething's off.
You don't want to tilt it, youwant to be balanced right.
And so, for me, I looked at itas I also looked at.
People don't realize it'sfamily, it's children.

(41:13):
What would that do to ourchildren?
If me or anybody else isselfish enough to say I'm making
ten dollars a month, right, andI used to make four, right, and
the heck with him or her, I'mdivorcing them because if.
I divorce them, I can make evenmore.
What happens to the children?
What happens to the family?
Everything becomes everything'sdisconnected right.

(41:33):
So everybody suffers.
So if we can prevent that,let's prevent it.
You know, we look and say, asblack women yes, me, too Many of
us.
I watched my mama work threeand four jobs all my life.
That's why I made a decisionthat I wasn't going to do that.
Right, but many of us blackpeople, we had to fight.
We've been fighting since thecotton picking cotton.

Deshay Caines (41:52):
Honestly we're houses right.

Tina Laws (41:58):
I mean think of our grandparents and my mom, my dad,
everybody who work, work, workand their idea of success is
working to make sure you can payyour bills.
That's not my idea of success.
So when people look at me, I'vehad people say you're crazy.
I literally resigned the year Iturned 50.
And I made a decision that itwasn't about my age, because
that's not my age, as my bishopwould say.
Right, but 50, to me was themoment for me to just flourish.

(42:20):
I got 53 this year and there isnothing.
There is no regrets I have inmy life.
There's no regrets, and once Idecided that that was what I
wanted to do.
that's what I've been doing eversince, and so when I go into
organizations to help people sayall the time you're the person
to call they say how are you sogood at what you do?

(42:41):
Well, I grew up back a time, socheck this.
I grew up and and and I wasvery combative.
So you learn those things fromyour grandparents.
You learn those things fromyour parents, everybody.
There's nobody exempt fromseeing the argument of your
parents say that I'm gonna helpyou out here because you're
telling that's untrue.
Like I say, a lie is untrue,but I, I think for me, I learned

(43:02):
it and I mastered it.
How can we get better at this?
So when I go, and work inenvironments with mediation.
I just love the understatement.
I love what I do when I workwith couples and have to manage
the conflict.
I love what I do.
I can do it with my eyes closed, so that's how I know I'm
called to do what I do.

(43:25):
So when I look back at the yearMay 21st, 2021, I think I
resigned.
That was the day I resigned,three o'clock.
How do I know?
Because I was very intentional.
I resigned at that time and atthat moment, I knew what I
wanted to do.
I knew that when I walked away,I was going to be doing more
than what I could ever do inthat room.
So that's why I did what I diddid and I'm so thankful for the
opportunity right, because itallowed me to help other people.

(43:47):
Initially, I felt bad andguilty that I wasn't helping the
community.
That's domestic violence andthe various little things that I
used to deal with there.
I what I dealt with there waslike a, a quarter of what I deal
with.
No, no, right.
And so I look at it and say,wow, am I making?
But guess what?
That's the best decision Icould have made, taking that
rule and every other rule yeah,no, absolutely.

Deshay Caines (44:09):
I do want to go back just a little bit.
So we spoke you spoke about, uh,helping women in leadership
positions, right, and so whatwe're seeing now in trends of
women is a lot more women movinginto middle management and
leadership positions, and butwhat we are also seeing on the
flip side of that are marriagesnot succeeding in those same
veins.

(44:29):
Right, and a lot of times thesewomen are women.
We're in a position right nowwhere women are out earning men
right In certain spaces, andsometimes what we're also seeing
with that is those marriagesare not lasting because the
women may not feel that, youknow, the man is being a man and
not upheld in their side of thebargain, and then the flip side
of that is the man might be abit intimidated by that.

(44:52):
Like, what advice do you kindof give to women who are
pursuing their careers,excelling in their careers, but
their partner may not beexcelling at the same space,
same pace as them?
How do we, how do we combatthis trend of divorce that we're
seeing, with successful blackwomen in particular, um, that
are divorcing at at really arapid rate?

Tina Laws (45:15):
yeah, it is one of the things I often say is let's
not compare each other right.
Sometimes, why people divorceit's not because she got
promoted, it's not because she'smaking more money.
They were divorced way beforeshe even got the job.
It was just functioning, theywas just living together.
Yeah, so you know, sometimesthere are people that got
married that wasn't even meantto be married.
But I'm gonna make this work.
We have children or child orall those things.

(45:37):
Some people just wait until thechildren's other than her.
It's so many reasons why peopledon't work and there are some
relationships that you can workwith.
That's no abuse in sight, right?
yeah that they were never inlove from the beginning.
So you can't force people tofall in love.
But what I say is if, if twopeople are intentional and they
really want this marriage towork and they love each other in

(45:59):
spite of the differences,that's a situation you can work
out.
But if two people don't loveeach other, in spite of the
differences, that's a situationyou can work on.
But if two people don't loveeach other and they didn't love
each other, they don't even likeeach other.
Is it?
Is it worth really holding onto something that is not there?
And in some instances I wouldsay absolutely, if you both want
it.
But if it's only onerelationships or two, right.
All there is is three, four,right.

Deshay Caines (46:22):
So we're not going to talk about them, that's
a different conversation.

Tina Laws (46:30):
That's a real conversation.
It's true, it's very, very true.
But I say, if two people decideto stand before god say, oh, I
do for the rest of our lives,it's after us partying, right.
If you do that, there'ssomething there.
Try it at least.
I have couples where they weregonna divorce and now they
aren't divorcing.
So I'm thankful for thatAbsolutely.
And then I say, lord, I'm doingmy job.
I don't know what you're givingme, but you're giving me
something to do, right.
And then I've had people thatreally say you know what?

(46:51):
I don't think we even likedeach other from the beginning
and we only got married becausewe was pregnant, or we got
married because, um, we went toschool, we came back, we were
both successful.
Yeah, he lost his job.
Ah, you understand.
So sometimes people look andsay you know, I'm making $10 and
he's making three.
What good is he to me?

(47:11):
Well then you have to wonderwhat is your marriage built on?
Is it because he makes $3?
Or is it because you just don'tlove him or you lot don't get
along?
Because really, I said aboutthat, pillar my husband's, my
cushion.
So rather, my husband came inthree dollars or four.
I know that my husband willwork 24 hours a day to make sure
that I'm okay, you understand.

(47:31):
I know that no matter what Ineed, he'll make it happen, so I
don't care if I make.
I want to retire my husband.
People laugh when I say it.
I want to retire my husbandbecause my husband's been a mess
and sent me school and done allsorts of supported our family.
So I want to retire my husbandbecause my husband's been a
mayor, since he sent me toschool and done all sorts of
support to our family.
So I want to send them.
I want to retire them.

Deshay Caines (47:47):
What are people going to say then?
They'll have something to say,but that's your business.

Tina Laws (47:50):
But guess what?
For me, that would be anopportunity where we could do
more together while I'mtraveling and doing what I have
to do.
Right, we could do moretogether.
So that's just my door process.
Right, having that cushion,having that support.
But what happens when you findthose couples that the guys feel
intimidated?
Well, sometimes they're notreally intimidated.
That's what we women say.
Right, you're intimidatedbecause of this.

(48:12):
Oh yeah, maybe you're jealous,and that's true, sometimes
they're jealous.
But I think, if you includethat partner because, like we
say, it's both men and womenthat experience this If you
include your partner along theway, it's not going to be a year
in and you decide I'm getting apromotion, I want a divorce
because you don't agree, youhave never included him.
Sometimes we get in thesespaces and we see successful men

(48:33):
and women and feel like they'rebetter because in their career
they're more successful.
So now you start connecting,you're with them more.
So now you start looking atyour partner like his last thing
or she's last thing, becauseshe doesn't have this um, she
doesn't sit in the boardroomwith her spike heels, or she
doesn't.
She doesn't boss around a team,she's just her and being a
housewife just, you're right, Iheard the.
Just I heard it right, and so Ithink I think it all depends on

(48:55):
that couple.
How much do you want this?
You know how much do yourespect each other as a couple.
You know how much do yourespect your family and children
?
Some couples are togetherbecause of these children, and I
think that's a blessing,sometimes in disguise, because
sometimes you can lose your way,but then you remember what was
the family?
Yes, yeah, absolutely so.
I think it's important.
But overall, when people say Ihave a couple that, um, I worked

(49:18):
with no longer um, thankfullythey're doing well.
She was convinced that he wasinsecure, jealous and so many
other things.
But come to find out he wasn'tany of those things.
He just felt like he was neverincluded.
He just felt like, you know, hedidn't mind her.
He was proud of her, that shewas in the room which she was in
, and financially they were fine, so he was happy about that.

(49:41):
What he didn't like was herturn.
What he didn't like was what Iknow too to be coming home and
falling asleep.
What he didn't like is hestresses and that he couldn't
help her with it.
So now he became the problemtoo.
So that's what tends to happena lot of times that partner, who
now that partner is, that's notin that world.
With you they become theproblem because now you can't
fix it.

Deshay Caines (50:01):
Well, I'm, I'm like blown away I, just because
obviously I'm not married.
That's clear.
All my, my readers know that.
Listeners know that.
But you know, you, you see alot of things right like you
have friends who are married.
You, I, my parents, are stillmarried.
Well, my dad and my stepmom arestill married.
You know my uncles, mygrandparents, all that type of
stuff.
But you don't, you don't alwayssee in those settings what it

(50:24):
took to stay married right.
So hearing these types ofthings and how to work through
that is is definitely, I think,very valuable.
But you know, obviously we'vegone back into the relationship
very, very heavy.
But looking back at everythingthat you've accomplished also,
you look amazing for your age.
By the way, I had no idea umthere you there.

Tina Laws (50:43):
I had no idea.

Deshay Caines (50:44):
So, looking at everything that you've
accomplished and everything thatyou've been through, and not
having any regrets, I mean, youlook back on your life and you
know you are no longer here verylong time from now, but very
long.
What do you want people to sayabout Tina?
What do you want to beremembered for, based on all the
work that you're doing?

Tina Laws (51:03):
Yeah.
So, to be honest, I have nointerest in what people say.
Really, I just want to leave alegacy for my grands, because I
have grandchildren and mychildren, right, and even when
they have children, children,grand, grand, grand that don't
even know me, I want them to beable to say the type of person
that Nana was right, the personthat would drop and do anything.
Family always comes first.
So that's something that I wantto instill in them, and you

(51:25):
know, when you put your familyfirst, everything else naturally
falls behind, right, and so Ithink I think what's important
and what many of us um forget,is that family, sure, come first
, right, but we get in ourcareers and let me go back to
this we get in our careers asblack women, right or up against
black men or even white men ordifferent cultures.
Period.
We have something to prove,right, and so we lose our way.

(51:46):
Sometimes we get so focused onI'm going to prove a point that
we become this hard personsitting in a ballroom or hard
person I'm going to prove mythat.
We go here and proving ourpoint to our partner and
forgetting that they're evenlike who's this?
They don't even know who we are.
So I say all that to say.
My legacy is that I've, I'mteaching my children, my
grandchildren and everybody thatfalls behind how to love, how

(52:07):
to put each other first.
If you're able, and and go forus.
If you're able to do that, whatwill work?

Deshay Caines (52:13):
everything else out it's not that you're not
going to have bumps along theway, because I've had many bumps
.

Tina Laws (52:18):
However, you want to be able to appreciate those
bumps.
You want to be able to sit backand say okay, lord, and I
understand why it was painful,why did you have me?
Good, but this is why.
So my legacy would always bethat I've left a legacy for my
children to know family first,love first, put go for us and
everything else will come behindit.
That's supposed to be behind itoh, I love that well.

Deshay Caines (52:40):
Thank you, tina, so much for spending some time
with me today.
I really do appreciate it.
Now, anyone who's watching thepodcast in this episode right
now they're listening.
What is the best way to get incontact with you should they
want to avail of your services?

Tina Laws (52:55):
I'm on LinkedIn or you can just look me up at my
website.
You can either get me attinalawesconsultantcom or you
can get me at thelovecompass.

Deshay Caines (53:07):
L-U-V compassnet.

Tina Laws (53:10):
Or you can call me at 4415388857.
Email tinalawesconsultant atgmailcom or thelovecompasscoach
at gmailcom.

Deshay Caines (53:20):
Like I'm just everywhere on social media, I'm
I don't, we'll tag you in thiswhen it goes up.

Tina Laws (53:26):
Yes, absolutely so you know, I'm here, I'm here,
I'm here, I'm being between hereand london.
My grandchildren in london, mydaughter and I also have clients
in london.
Okay, speaking engagement, soI'm just doing so.
If they want me, they bettercatch me quick.
Yes, there you go, there we go.

Deshay Caines (53:41):
We love to hear it.
Well, thank you again.

Tina Laws (53:42):
Thank you for having me appreciate you being here
today absolutely all right, guys.

Deshay Caines (53:47):
We just had an amazing episode with Tina Laws,
who dropped some amazing gemsfor us.
Whether you're in the beginningpart of your journey as a
couple or as a woman inleadership and you're, or you're
a bit more senior in that,we've got some amazing advice
from her today on how tonavigate through these things in
our relationships, but also inour careers as well.
She dropped some gems for usaround her her own personal
struggles and the things thatshe has gone through and how

(54:09):
she's overcome them as well.
So, guys, head over to thewebsite hustleheartpodcastcom.
Make sure you can read the blogthat will be up, will be up,
about Ms Tina Laws, and then youcan also find some additional
information about how to get incontact with her should you wish
to avail of her services.
While she's available, honey,because she is booked and busy.
All right, as always.
Thank you for spendingno-transcript.