🚀 We just wrapped up an episode of HVAC Success Secrets Revealed with Cody McLeod, founder of Utility Plumbing Services. It was an enlightening conversation filled with valuable insights for anyone in the trades and service industry.Â
In our compelling chat, Cody shared his journey from working in the family business to building his own company from the ground up. Here are 3 key takeaways from our discussion:
🔧 Build Operations First: Cody emphasized the importance of establishing strong operations as a foundation for growth. Getting customer service, technicians, and apprentices in place early on set the stage for scalability.
📈 Embrace Technology: Implementing a robust CRM (ServiceTitan in their case) transformed their ability to manage the business effectively, leading to smoother operations and significant growth.
💡Focus on Personal and Team Development: Cody shared how vital personal development is, not just for leadership but for the entire team. Investing in continual learning and growth propels the business and its people forward.
Tune in to hear Cody's full story and more of his invaluable insights at the HVAC Revealed podcast. Don't miss this episode!
#HVAC #Plumbing #Entrepreneurship #Operations #PersonalDevelopment #Leadership #TradeIndustry #CustomerService #BusinessGrowth
Find Cody:
On The Web: utilityplumbingservices.com
Instagram: instagram.com/codymcleod_88
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cody McLeod (00:01):
Number one most important thing was building the
operations when I started thecompany.
Getting the customer service inplace.
Getting the technicians andapprentices and building the
operations from the ground up.
Thaddeus Tondu (00:11):
Yep.
Cody McLeod (00:11):
Now we are ready.
Thaddeus Tondu (00:14):
Hey, welcome back to another episode of HVAC
Success Secrets Revealed withThaddeus and Evan where we have
good conversations with goodpeople.
Any good conversation generallyis worth having drunk, but we're
going to stick to the H20s heretoday.
Today we have on Cody, got itright this time from Utility
Plumbing Services from SouthernCalifornia, Rancho Cucamonga.
But we're actually here live atthe Rocket X event in Dallas,
2024.
(00:35):
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Cool.
All right.
So Cody been in the industry for16 years plumbing your entire
(01:41):
life you were in your familybusiness, 12 years, worked your
way up to the title of VP, leftthe family business and started
your own thing two years ago.
Super excited to dive in to hearsome of the things about working
in a family dynamic.
It's going to be an excitingepisode.
So walk us through a little bitof your journey and your history
into the trades.
Cody McLeod (01:56):
I'm a second generation plumbing contractor.
I own Utility Plumbing Servicesand, as far as my journey I was
a kid in a plumbing truck withmy dad.
I had a plumbing shop in mybackyard.
When I was waking up for school,the guys were getting ready in
the backyard.
You know what I mean?
And then I got into just startedworking with my father and stuff
and yeah, hopped in a truck andthen, so I learned that, I feel
like I learned the trade fromthe ground up from my father.
(02:17):
And then other mentors in theindustry and stuff.
So came in as a partner early inmy 20s and stuff and then and
then I worked my way up to vicepresident and yeah, So vice
president of, it was vicepresident of Scott McLeod
Plumbing, it's in RanchoCucamonga and
Thaddeus Tondu (02:31):
So was there a title behind VP or just the VP.
Cody McLeod (02:34):
When I came in as a partner with my father, it was
me and him basically in ourbackyard and so we took the
company from three vehicles to30 vehicles from two employees,
me and my father to 30 employeesand on one of the main streets
in Rancho Cucamonga.
So it was huge for our familyand stuff and and my way, it's a
true family business where mygeneral manager was my cousin
(02:54):
Katie.
My, my other partner was mybrother Cole.
The lead technician at thecompany right now is my brother
Carson and we had a couple otherfamily members.
My sister Paige was in customerservice and everything a true
family business.
Thaddeus Tondu (03:04):
And all three boys have C's to start with
their names.
Cody McLeod (03:07):
That's right, and I have one more brother too, Kai.
Yeah.
Everybody has it.
Paige, Cody, Kai, Cole, andCarson.
Thaddeus Tondu (03:13):
But Paige is the, oh, I guess a girl, so
that'll be the outlier with theP instead of the C.
In terms of taking that growthfrom two two people, three
trucks to, 30 people, 30 trucks.
What was that like?
What were, I guess if you wereto look back on that time, and
so you were to say, okay I havethis tremendous amount of
growth.
What is one thing that youwished that you knew when you
had two trucks that you learnedwhen you had 30 trucks?
Cody McLeod (03:36):
So when we were just like, we were under 10
employees and stuff, it waslike, it felt like never ending.
I feel like the 8 to 12 employeemark was like the big hump maybe
15 employees was the big humpwhere it was like, felt like we
could never be one of the bigguys and once we got to that 18,
20, 25 employee mark, things goteasier in the operations, I feel
(03:56):
and we were able to lean more onour employees and stuff and we
would lean on each other.
Evan Hoffman (04:00):
Was that just because there was more people to
take on, more roles, get morespecific, you were able to focus
on more of the leadership andthat side?
Cody McLeod (04:08):
Absolutely.
Building just building ourmanagement structure and then,
just building the companystructure itself where we don't
have to wear all the hats, wherewe're answering the phones,
where we're running the calls,where we're, trying to manage
people and everything else andprovide a great service to our
customers.
Thaddeus Tondu (04:22):
It's funny that you said it was easier.
A lot of people think that itgets harder, and it can, if you
don't have the right systems inplace.
In putting those systems inplace, how did you guys do it?
What did you guys leverage?
Is there any sort of, successsecret?
See what I did there?
Come on, that was good.
That was good.
Is there any sort of a secretthere that you guys found made
it easier for you?
Because I know a lot of guysstruggle when they get to that
(04:43):
point.
Cody McLeod (04:44):
Yeah, definitely implementing service title was
the biggest thing.
We were on handwritten, this waslike 14 years ago now, but we
were on, handwritten invoicesand, just Google Calendar and
this kind of stuff.
But once we implemented our CRMservice side, everything changed
for us, and yeah, that wasprobably the biggest thing.
Then you can work, create thosesystems and processes and, you
(05:06):
work the system, right?
And that's it.
So you can see everything.
Evan Hoffman (05:09):
That's cool.
What else kind of change andshifted to get over that hump to
get to that 13th 15th 17themployee when things started to
get easier?
What was the shift that was madethere?
Cody McLeod (05:20):
I think it was a mentality shift cause we went
from, the family business andstuff and we had a great
customer base at Scott and 12Plumbing and just the mentality
of, hey, we gotta change up somethings to make this happen and
I'm a big proponent on notreinventing the wheel.
So I was looking at the big, theroto rooters and stuff like that
of the world where, I'm nottrying to reinvent the wheel.
We're going to get all the bestequipment and then we're going
(05:42):
to start bringing on the bestemployees to do the best job for
our customers and that's whereit really just started and we
started, we were doing two tofour trucks a year and we just
started growing like crazy.
Thaddeus Tondu (05:51):
And looking at it in the reverse engineering
it's doing the best thing, forthe customer and then that in
turn allows you to do the bestthing for your team, which in
turn allows you to have the bestequipment and it's this trickle
down effect that really helps tobe able to leverage that.
Absolutely.
Evan Hoffman (06:06):
Sweet.
And so now you're running yourown company.
So what was the reasoning behindthat?
What was the drive behind that?
Why did you want to go off onyour own?
Cody McLeod (06:14):
So there was a lot of reasons for that, but
basically two years ago, I madethe decision to break off from
the family business.
My brother Cole actually movedinto my position as the vice
president of the company andCole and my dad are going to
take that company great placesbut I started utility plumbing
services two years ago and itis, that was the absolute best
decision I ever made just causeI could, I never stopped working
(06:36):
and stuff and I it's given methis liberating feeling of doing
it on my own, which has been thehardest thing I've ever done for
sure, but definitely the mostrewarding for sure.
Thaddeus Tondu (06:45):
And you take all the experiences of that and now
you've leveraging it on yourown.
So I guess what's the mostrewarding part of it?
Cody McLeod (06:52):
The most rewarding part of it is for me, it's
always been about my employees.
What I can create.
I started off with a new phonenumber, new email address
completely from scratch.
Which I don't recommend but Iknew I could do it, but now
seeing it, now I have ten fulltime employees and stuff, and
I'm just creating careers forpeople, and we're doing it
together, we're working as ateam, and that's, for me, that's
(07:13):
the most fulfilling thing, andthat's honestly why I do it.
Thaddeus Tondu (07:16):
And the other part too, and I think this came
from last night, is now It's 100percent yours, right?
And I guess in terms of some ofthe family dynamic parts that
may have resulted from startingyour own business.
If you were to tell somebodythey, okay they're in that
similar situation, they have afamily run business.
They're like, you know what?
I think I just want to go runand do my own thing.
I think it's time for me toleave the business and do my own
(07:39):
thing.
What sort of advice would yougive that person?
And sorry, and let me clarifythat in dealing with the family.
Cody McLeod (07:43):
Yeah.
That's the biggest.
The biggest part of all of it isit's still rough between my
father and brother and I andstuff and if they're watching, I
no the question was,
Thaddeus Tondu (07:52):
In terms of advice of leaving a family
business to start your own andhow can that work within the
finding dynamic?
And I know you're guys have, youhave an interesting story and
interesting path.
We don't need to get into the,to the vultigos of that.
But if somebody were topotentially look at, okay, how
can I avoid having this andyou're ready to make amends with
your family.
How can I look to potentiallyavoid getting in that place in
(08:14):
the first place, based off ofyour experiences?
Cody McLeod (08:17):
I think it goes back to communication,
communicating through the wholeprocess and stuff, and there's,
I don't think there's any easyway to do it at all.
had an unorthodox exit there tothe company and stuff, but just
communication, man and, it'slike at the end of the day,
family comes first, especiallyin the McLeod family and so just
I'd say communication.
Thaddeus Tondu (08:34):
Oh, it's huge ones, right?
And having that open dialogueback and forth is phenomenal and
be able to do that and we sawthat yesterday with the guests
that we had on and just like thecommunication and having that
upfront aspect of things andripping that band aid off is a
big one and what's the fivelove, the five dysfunctions of
the team just finished readingthe Patrick Lencioni book and
that's the first one is absenceof trust, but how can you do
(08:54):
that?
Communication, right?
And then when you have thatability to communicate, now you
can build on that trustfoundation.
Sure.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Evan Hoffman (09:01):
Setting clear expectations up front.
Thaddeus Tondu (09:02):
Yep.
Evan Hoffman (09:03):
Yep.
Yep.
The lessons that you were ableto extract from being in the
family business to now runningyour own, what did you keep?
What did you want to change andshift and make your own?
Cody McLeod (09:12):
So I wanted to keep the morals.
We're a like I'm, I come from aplumbing family.
So we are real plumbers.
That's what I always say.
I know there's, I'll just keepit at that.
We're real plumbers.
We're, it's service first and soI'm keeping that for sure but
just putting a modern spin on itour company is black and white.
It's super simple and our brandstands for being bold and
(09:34):
professional.
That's all I wanted to do.
I didn't wanna be a flashy brandand stuff, and, there's a bunch
of great brands out there andeverything, but I just wanted to
take it back to the old schooland but with a modern twist.
Thaddeus Tondu (09:44):
Right?
And core values, right?
That's a huge thing and when youcan have and leverage those core
values, especially from there towhere you're at now super
powerful.
What did you, so that was onething that you kept.
What is one thing that youstopped doing in terms of
bringing from the old businessto the new business?
Cody McLeod (10:00):
That's a good question.
I think I'll just stick withmyself.
A lot of personal development.
So I was I got to the point inmy career where I had 30
employees.
I was a vice president of thecompany and I was an owner of
the business.
I was 24.
5 percent owner of the company.
So I started coasting.
And as a professional, I stoppedmy personal development and
everything.
Continuing my personaldevelopment was the most the
(10:22):
biggest thing with this company.
Because I started UtilityPlumbing Services with the same
habits at Scott McLeod Plumbingthat I would, that were my
detriment and that was thebiggest thing was just, you
always have to keep learning andkeep that personal development
going.
Evan Hoffman (10:35):
So what are you reading right now?
Cody McLeod (10:36):
What am I reading right now?
I just got Joe Crisara wasactually at our shop the other
day and I'm reading what shouldwe do by Joe Crisara.
Thaddeus Tondu (10:43):
Nice.
What was the last book that youread?
Cody McLeod (10:45):
The last book I read was
Thaddeus Tondu (10:46):
or listen to,
Cody McLeod (10:47):
Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins,
Thaddeus Tondu (10:51):
did you read it?
Did you listen to it?
Cody McLeod (10:53):
Let me say this first.
Like I said, I'm a plumber.
I've read.
I'm not proud to say this, butI've read one book my entire
life.
Even through school andeverything.
I wasn't, I couldn't payattention in school and
everything.
I read David Goggins Can't HurtMe and I'm trying to get more
into reading and stuff, but thatjust, that tells a little bit
about my story.
Thaddeus Tondu (11:10):
Do you listen to books at all?
Are you an Audible learner?
Cody McLeod (11:12):
I'm doing that with the Joe Crisara book right now.
I'm trying to read along andstuff.
Thaddeus Tondu (11:16):
I have a tough time reading too, right?
Like I have a tough time justsitting there.
I was on a plane on the waydown, so I'm like, okay, I can
sit here and Patrick Lencionibooks are great because it's a
fable and it's a story and thoseare the ones, some of them are
pretty dry.
But I found that Audible, Isreally good for me because when
I was driving around a lot ofwindshield time, I threw it on
instead of music and then youlisten to it instead of music.
I'm walking my dog.
(11:37):
I throw it on instead oflistening to it and so it helps
actually a lot of the personaldevelopment.
If you're the part that youcan't sit there and read.
Evan Hoffman (11:44):
But for our listeners, they should be
listening to podcasts in thecar, not audio books.
Yeah.
Thaddeus Tondu (11:48):
Although they're already listening to it.
So that's one thing that you'vekept us something that you've
stopped.
What is one thing that you'regoing to start doing?
Cody McLeod (11:53):
I think getting my employees involved in the
personal development.
Because I'm changing, I'mrapidly changing.
We're gonna be bringing in newguys and stuff.
I want my guys in the field andin the office to grow with me as
well, yep and I want the coreemployees that I have right now
to be with me years from now.
Evan Hoffman (12:09):
I love that.
And that's something I just wentto any hour two weeks ago up in
Utah.
Phenomenal business.
Nice.
Unreal.
Operation, really, but one ofthe things that they do with
their leadership training, theirmanagement training, is just
dive into a book, and they jokedaround that it took them three
years to get through SevenHabits of Highly Effective
People, because it's such agreat book and there's so many
(12:29):
lessons within it, but it juststarted so many conversations
about how are you actuallyapplying the knowledge and I
think that's the thing thatoften gets overlooked with a lot
of people who are like, oh yeah,I'm going to read, a book a
month or a book a week for ayear and they get hooked on the
act of reading and they'remissing the application.
Cody McLeod (12:45):
Sure.
Sure.
Thaddeus Tondu (12:46):
Yeah.
Then that's, and that's a hugepoint because I think a lot of
people do that.
They're like, great book andnext book.
Yeah.
I'm guilty of that.
I did that for a long time.
Yeah.
I usually take something andpull it and put it in, just try
it as quickly as I can.
Yeah.
Depending on the book but.
Evan Hoffman (12:59):
Oh, and that's one thing that I've made a shift in
for myself is I don't go to thebook trying to learn everything
or consume everything.
I rarely even read it cover tocover.
I will look at the table ofcontents, find the one idea that
I want to take out of the bookand then I go deep on that idea
and then how can I execute onit?
And I've had to train myself outof that because that's not me.
Cody McLeod (13:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Evan Hoffman (13:19):
But I just, yeah, I stopped looking for everything
and trying to get everything outof it.
Events, too, that we go to.
It's one idea.
That's all I need.
Thaddeus Tondu (13:27):
So is it, somebody was saying, I can't
remember who the person was thatthey go to an event and when
they get the one thing that thatthey're going to implement in
their business, they just leavethe event.
They're gone.
They go home.
They're done.
Like they don't stick anymorebecause then you get compounded,
right?
It's like the people that arefervous note takers and they
just they destroy notepad in anevent and then okay what's your
one item?
Too much, right?
And so listening for that onething and then going deep on
(13:47):
that is a phenomenal part.
Cody McLeod (13:48):
And listening to the speakers is great, but even
having conversations, being onthis podcast, doing the little
stuff, like having theconversations at the restaurant.
Having coffee with someone.
I went on a 5K run this morning.
Evan Hoffman (13:59):
Oh, you got recruited?
Cody McLeod (14:00):
I got recruited for that.
I didn't know it was going to bea 5K.
You said we're going on a run.
Yeah.
But it was great.
We ran around Dallas Stadium,but those are the experiences
with these events and stuff andthose little conversations, just
like you're saying, you'retaking one or a couple things
from these events and I'm notreally a note taker anyways,
right?
Evan Hoffman (14:20):
So what's one thing that you wanted to get out
of this event and bring back tothe business?
One lesson, one thing to takeaction on?
Cody McLeod (14:25):
For myself I think For the actual business
operations itself, I wanted topartner with the company for
lead generation and we'remeeting some of the best biggest
and best names in the industryhere.
I was speaking to Mandeep and acouple others and stuff, I think
Hook.
Thaddeus Tondu (14:39):
and us, On Purpose Media, come on.
Cody McLeod (14:41):
Yes.
See, we're learning as we go.
So yeah, so it definitely just
Evan Hoffman (14:47):
Increased call flow.
Thaddeus Tondu (14:48):
Yeah, increased call flow and then, and it, so
in terms of call flow now, doyou feel that, because I think a
lot of times people say, okayI'm going to get more leads, and
I've had this conversationyesterday with somebody and okay
I want to get more leads.
Great.
How, what's your percentage ofanswering your phone?
And they're like I don't know.
I'm like, okay, we'll figurethat out before you go turn on a
faucet, right?
Because if you look at it andyou're like, okay, you only
answer 30 percent of your calls,you're fucked, right?
That's a shit number.
(15:09):
Like you need to be answering 85percent or north, right?
100 percent ideally, but we allknow that's impossible and so
it's looking at that now interms of the operational side of
things and walking that back,how do you know that you're
ready to increase the flow?
Cody McLeod (15:21):
My, the number one most important thing was
building the operations when Istarted the company.
Getting the customer service inplace, getting the technicians
and apprentices and building theoperations from the ground up.
Now we are ready where, we addvehicles and we add vehicles and
put the right people in place.
Technicians, apprentices, thefield takes care of itself.
(15:42):
But having that back in officestaff is where the real life is.
Thaddeus Tondu (15:44):
The real magic and that's it and that and now
you know, you're ready, right?
Because you have that learningexperience of putting in those
operational things to be able toturn on the taps and the spigots
and it's not the right time ofthe year to be able to turn on
some of those taps, right?
So starting to get hot.
Cody McLeod (15:58):
Yeah, we pretty much year round in plumbing.
We have a couple slow times likespring and back to school season
in the fall, but other than thatwe stay pretty busy.
Thaddeus Tondu (16:05):
Nice.
Let's actually talk a little bitabout marketing.
You're looking at some marketingcompanies right now.
How are you evaluating marketingcompanies?
What are you looking for inhaving the right person for your
business?
Cody McLeod (16:16):
That's a great question.
I've worked with a lot in mycareer.
We switched a couple times up atmy previous business and I think
I'm looking for, I'm looking forsomeone that I can personal, I
could talk to an actual personand work with somebody.
I don't know if it's accountmanagement or however you guys
hear it.
So somewhere where I can make acall and then we can make
changes as we go.
But I'm looking for someone tojust, grab the reins and run it
(16:37):
and it's not like I'm, I don'tknow what that looks like yet,
but I'm just looking for aprofessional company that and
someone that can help us groworganically first and build
steps where then we could buildour online presence with through
SEO and organic and then likeour social media presence is
already doing pretty well.
So I feel like we have the brandbuilt now.
(16:58):
We just need to build SEOorganically and then go after
the bigger fish.
Thaddeus Tondu (17:02):
The lead gen after once you get that, it's
like building a house, right?
You want to, you build the frameand put the roof on.
And that to me is your websiteand your SEO and then as you
start to, and you're likefinishing the outside of them,
as you want to furnish theinside, those are your fun
things like the lead generationand stuff.
Cody McLeod (17:19):
Yeah.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And we're doing the backyard,the pool and everything else.
right?
the rock slide.
Thaddeus Tondu (17:25):
Yeah.
Putting everything on.
Putting everything on.
Perfect.
As we do wrap up,'cause we wannabe respectful of the event and
your time.
Thank you for coming on by theway.
We do have one final questionhere for you and that is one
question.
What is one question that youwish people would ask you more,
but don't Tough questions today.
I know.
Tough question.
Yeah.
Cody McLeod (17:40):
Gosh.
Thaddeus Tondu (17:42):
Could be personally, could be
professionally, it doesn'treally matter.
Cody McLeod (17:44):
Ask me more questions about plumbing, I'll
say that.
I actually, I'm a, like I said,second generation plumber, and I
love plumbing.
I actually still get out therein the field with my guys.
I install plumbing, and I justlove what I do.
So whenever I can help anyone,even If it's a friend or
anything like that.
Yep.
I'm always one phone call away.
Thaddeus Tondu (18:04):
So how do I replace my own kitchen faucet?
hire plumber,
Evan Hoffman (18:08):
What do you feel like is lacking in the industry
right now?
Cody McLeod (18:11):
I feel like service is lacking.
Yeah.
I feel like it's getting into amore sales sales situation there
and I feel like as people are,on social media, you're like,
oh, plumbers are making all thismoney and everything, but it
goes back to the service.
Taking care of customers andproviding a good your, the sales
are going to come with it, butproviding a better service to
the customers is the foundationof plumbing.
Thaddeus Tondu (18:32):
Customer service is just, it's needed and so like
I've said this numerous times isthat if you have an average
product and an averagecommunication and this is almost
for recurring services andplumbing is one of those ones
that you can have recurringservices with recurring clients.
If you have an average productand above, and average
communication, you're going tohave average retention of your
clients.
If you have an average productand above average communication,
(18:52):
they're going to stay longerbecause of the above average
communication.
Now, if you have an aboveaverage product and average or
below average communicationthey're still going to leave.
Now if you can double downyou're gonna have both above
average product and aboveaverage communication man that's
doubling down and be able to winthe long term because people
just want to be heard they wantto have that service mentality
and they want to feel valued andwhen you can do that, you're
(19:14):
gonna win.
Evan Hoffman (19:14):
Just take care of people, right?
Keep it simple stupid, right?
Thaddeus Tondu (19:18):
Perfect well any other lingering questions out
there, anything you might wantto ask?
Evan Hoffman (19:22):
No, that was my last curiosity there was around
your feelings around theindustry.
So perfect.
Thaddeus Tondu (19:27):
Awesome.
For coming on.
That was a good show and untilnext time,
Evan Hoffman (19:30):
cheers.
Thaddeus Tondu (19:33):
Well, That's a wrap on another episode of HVAC
Success Secrets Revealed.
Before you go, two quick things.
First off, join our Facebookgroup,
facebook.com/hvacrevealed.
The other thing.
If you took one tiny bit ofinformation out of this show, no
matter how big, no matter howsmall, all we ask is for you to
introduce this to one person inyour contacts list.
That's it.
(19:53):
That's all one person.
So they too can unleash theultimate HVAC business.
Until next time.
Cheers.
Number one most important thing was building the
operations when I started thecompany.
Getting the customer service inplace.
Getting the technicians andapprentices and building the
operations from the ground up.
Thaddeus Tondu (00:11):
Yep.
Cody McLeod (00:11):
Now we are ready.
Thaddeus Tondu (00:14):
Hey, welcome back to another episode of HVAC
Success Secrets Revealed withThaddeus and Evan where we have
good conversations with goodpeople.
Any good conversation generallyis worth having drunk, but we're
going to stick to the H20s heretoday.
Today we have on Cody, got itright this time from Utility
Plumbing Services from SouthernCalifornia, Rancho Cucamonga.
But we're actually here live atthe Rocket X event in Dallas,
2024.
(00:35):
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Cool.
All right.
So Cody been in the industry for16 years plumbing your entire
(01:41):
life you were in your familybusiness, 12 years, worked your
way up to the title of VP, leftthe family business and started
your own thing two years ago.
Super excited to dive in to hearsome of the things about working
in a family dynamic.
It's going to be an excitingepisode.
So walk us through a little bitof your journey and your history
into the trades.
Cody McLeod (01:56):
I'm a second generation plumbing contractor.
I own Utility Plumbing Servicesand, as far as my journey I was
a kid in a plumbing truck withmy dad.
I had a plumbing shop in mybackyard.
When I was waking up for school,the guys were getting ready in
the backyard.
You know what I mean?
And then I got into just startedworking with my father and stuff
and yeah, hopped in a truck andthen, so I learned that, I feel
like I learned the trade fromthe ground up from my father.
(02:17):
And then other mentors in theindustry and stuff.
So came in as a partner early inmy 20s and stuff and then and
then I worked my way up to vicepresident and yeah, So vice
president of, it was vicepresident of Scott McLeod
Plumbing, it's in RanchoCucamonga and
Thaddeus Tondu (02:31):
So was there a title behind VP or just the VP.
Cody McLeod (02:34):
When I came in as a partner with my father, it was
me and him basically in ourbackyard and so we took the
company from three vehicles to30 vehicles from two employees,
me and my father to 30 employeesand on one of the main streets
in Rancho Cucamonga.
So it was huge for our familyand stuff and and my way, it's a
true family business where mygeneral manager was my cousin
(02:54):
Katie.
My, my other partner was mybrother Cole.
The lead technician at thecompany right now is my brother
Carson and we had a couple otherfamily members.
My sister Paige was in customerservice and everything a true
family business.
Thaddeus Tondu (03:04):
And all three boys have C's to start with
their names.
Cody McLeod (03:07):
That's right, and I have one more brother too, Kai.
Yeah.
Everybody has it.
Paige, Cody, Kai, Cole, andCarson.
Thaddeus Tondu (03:13):
But Paige is the, oh, I guess a girl, so
that'll be the outlier with theP instead of the C.
In terms of taking that growthfrom two two people, three
trucks to, 30 people, 30 trucks.
What was that like?
What were, I guess if you wereto look back on that time, and
so you were to say, okay I havethis tremendous amount of
growth.
What is one thing that youwished that you knew when you
had two trucks that you learnedwhen you had 30 trucks?
Cody McLeod (03:36):
So when we were just like, we were under 10
employees and stuff, it waslike, it felt like never ending.
I feel like the 8 to 12 employeemark was like the big hump maybe
15 employees was the big humpwhere it was like, felt like we
could never be one of the bigguys and once we got to that 18,
20, 25 employee mark, things goteasier in the operations, I feel
(03:56):
and we were able to lean more onour employees and stuff and we
would lean on each other.
Evan Hoffman (04:00):
Was that just because there was more people to
take on, more roles, get morespecific, you were able to focus
on more of the leadership andthat side?
Cody McLeod (04:08):
Absolutely.
Building just building ourmanagement structure and then,
just building the companystructure itself where we don't
have to wear all the hats, wherewe're answering the phones,
where we're running the calls,where we're, trying to manage
people and everything else andprovide a great service to our
customers.
Thaddeus Tondu (04:22):
It's funny that you said it was easier.
A lot of people think that itgets harder, and it can, if you
don't have the right systems inplace.
In putting those systems inplace, how did you guys do it?
What did you guys leverage?
Is there any sort of, successsecret?
See what I did there?
Come on, that was good.
That was good.
Is there any sort of a secretthere that you guys found made
it easier for you?
Because I know a lot of guysstruggle when they get to that
(04:43):
point.
Cody McLeod (04:44):
Yeah, definitely implementing service title was
the biggest thing.
We were on handwritten, this waslike 14 years ago now, but we
were on, handwritten invoicesand, just Google Calendar and
this kind of stuff.
But once we implemented our CRMservice side, everything changed
for us, and yeah, that wasprobably the biggest thing.
Then you can work, create thosesystems and processes and, you
(05:06):
work the system, right?
And that's it.
So you can see everything.
Evan Hoffman (05:09):
That's cool.
What else kind of change andshifted to get over that hump to
get to that 13th 15th 17themployee when things started to
get easier?
What was the shift that was madethere?
Cody McLeod (05:20):
I think it was a mentality shift cause we went
from, the family business andstuff and we had a great
customer base at Scott and 12Plumbing and just the mentality
of, hey, we gotta change up somethings to make this happen and
I'm a big proponent on notreinventing the wheel.
So I was looking at the big, theroto rooters and stuff like that
of the world where, I'm nottrying to reinvent the wheel.
We're going to get all the bestequipment and then we're going
(05:42):
to start bringing on the bestemployees to do the best job for
our customers and that's whereit really just started and we
started, we were doing two tofour trucks a year and we just
started growing like crazy.
Thaddeus Tondu (05:51):
And looking at it in the reverse engineering
it's doing the best thing, forthe customer and then that in
turn allows you to do the bestthing for your team, which in
turn allows you to have the bestequipment and it's this trickle
down effect that really helps tobe able to leverage that.
Absolutely.
Evan Hoffman (06:06):
Sweet.
And so now you're running yourown company.
So what was the reasoning behindthat?
What was the drive behind that?
Why did you want to go off onyour own?
Cody McLeod (06:14):
So there was a lot of reasons for that, but
basically two years ago, I madethe decision to break off from
the family business.
My brother Cole actually movedinto my position as the vice
president of the company andCole and my dad are going to
take that company great placesbut I started utility plumbing
services two years ago and itis, that was the absolute best
decision I ever made just causeI could, I never stopped working
(06:36):
and stuff and I it's given methis liberating feeling of doing
it on my own, which has been thehardest thing I've ever done for
sure, but definitely the mostrewarding for sure.
Thaddeus Tondu (06:45):
And you take all the experiences of that and now
you've leveraging it on yourown.
So I guess what's the mostrewarding part of it?
Cody McLeod (06:52):
The most rewarding part of it is for me, it's
always been about my employees.
What I can create.
I started off with a new phonenumber, new email address
completely from scratch.
Which I don't recommend but Iknew I could do it, but now
seeing it, now I have ten fulltime employees and stuff, and
I'm just creating careers forpeople, and we're doing it
together, we're working as ateam, and that's, for me, that's
(07:13):
the most fulfilling thing, andthat's honestly why I do it.
Thaddeus Tondu (07:16):
And the other part too, and I think this came
from last night, is now It's 100percent yours, right?
And I guess in terms of some ofthe family dynamic parts that
may have resulted from startingyour own business.
If you were to tell somebodythey, okay they're in that
similar situation, they have afamily run business.
They're like, you know what?
I think I just want to go runand do my own thing.
I think it's time for me toleave the business and do my own
(07:39):
thing.
What sort of advice would yougive that person?
And sorry, and let me clarifythat in dealing with the family.
Cody McLeod (07:43):
Yeah.
That's the biggest.
The biggest part of all of it isit's still rough between my
father and brother and I andstuff and if they're watching, I
no the question was,
Thaddeus Tondu (07:52):
In terms of advice of leaving a family
business to start your own andhow can that work within the
finding dynamic?
And I know you're guys have, youhave an interesting story and
interesting path.
We don't need to get into the,to the vultigos of that.
But if somebody were topotentially look at, okay, how
can I avoid having this andyou're ready to make amends with
your family.
How can I look to potentiallyavoid getting in that place in
(08:14):
the first place, based off ofyour experiences?
Cody McLeod (08:17):
I think it goes back to communication,
communicating through the wholeprocess and stuff, and there's,
I don't think there's any easyway to do it at all.
had an unorthodox exit there tothe company and stuff, but just
communication, man and, it'slike at the end of the day,
family comes first, especiallyin the McLeod family and so just
I'd say communication.
Thaddeus Tondu (08:34):
Oh, it's huge ones, right?
And having that open dialogueback and forth is phenomenal and
be able to do that and we sawthat yesterday with the guests
that we had on and just like thecommunication and having that
upfront aspect of things andripping that band aid off is a
big one and what's the fivelove, the five dysfunctions of
the team just finished readingthe Patrick Lencioni book and
that's the first one is absenceof trust, but how can you do
(08:54):
that?
Communication, right?
And then when you have thatability to communicate, now you
can build on that trustfoundation.
Sure.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Evan Hoffman (09:01):
Setting clear expectations up front.
Thaddeus Tondu (09:02):
Yep.
Evan Hoffman (09:03):
Yep.
Yep.
The lessons that you were ableto extract from being in the
family business to now runningyour own, what did you keep?
What did you want to change andshift and make your own?
Cody McLeod (09:12):
So I wanted to keep the morals.
We're a like I'm, I come from aplumbing family.
So we are real plumbers.
That's what I always say.
I know there's, I'll just keepit at that.
We're real plumbers.
We're, it's service first and soI'm keeping that for sure but
just putting a modern spin on itour company is black and white.
It's super simple and our brandstands for being bold and
(09:34):
professional.
That's all I wanted to do.
I didn't wanna be a flashy brandand stuff, and, there's a bunch
of great brands out there andeverything, but I just wanted to
take it back to the old schooland but with a modern twist.
Thaddeus Tondu (09:44):
Right?
And core values, right?
That's a huge thing and when youcan have and leverage those core
values, especially from there towhere you're at now super
powerful.
What did you, so that was onething that you kept.
What is one thing that youstopped doing in terms of
bringing from the old businessto the new business?
Cody McLeod (10:00):
That's a good question.
I think I'll just stick withmyself.
A lot of personal development.
So I was I got to the point inmy career where I had 30
employees.
I was a vice president of thecompany and I was an owner of
the business.
I was 24.
5 percent owner of the company.
So I started coasting.
And as a professional, I stoppedmy personal development and
everything.
Continuing my personaldevelopment was the most the
(10:22):
biggest thing with this company.
Because I started UtilityPlumbing Services with the same
habits at Scott McLeod Plumbingthat I would, that were my
detriment and that was thebiggest thing was just, you
always have to keep learning andkeep that personal development
going.
Evan Hoffman (10:35):
So what are you reading right now?
Cody McLeod (10:36):
What am I reading right now?
I just got Joe Crisara wasactually at our shop the other
day and I'm reading what shouldwe do by Joe Crisara.
Thaddeus Tondu (10:43):
Nice.
What was the last book that youread?
Cody McLeod (10:45):
The last book I read was
Thaddeus Tondu (10:46):
or listen to,
Cody McLeod (10:47):
Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins,
Thaddeus Tondu (10:51):
did you read it?
Did you listen to it?
Cody McLeod (10:53):
Let me say this first.
Like I said, I'm a plumber.
I've read.
I'm not proud to say this, butI've read one book my entire
life.
Even through school andeverything.
I wasn't, I couldn't payattention in school and
everything.
I read David Goggins Can't HurtMe and I'm trying to get more
into reading and stuff, but thatjust, that tells a little bit
about my story.
Thaddeus Tondu (11:10):
Do you listen to books at all?
Are you an Audible learner?
Cody McLeod (11:12):
I'm doing that with the Joe Crisara book right now.
I'm trying to read along andstuff.
Thaddeus Tondu (11:16):
I have a tough time reading too, right?
Like I have a tough time justsitting there.
I was on a plane on the waydown, so I'm like, okay, I can
sit here and Patrick Lencionibooks are great because it's a
fable and it's a story and thoseare the ones, some of them are
pretty dry.
But I found that Audible, Isreally good for me because when
I was driving around a lot ofwindshield time, I threw it on
instead of music and then youlisten to it instead of music.
I'm walking my dog.
(11:37):
I throw it on instead oflistening to it and so it helps
actually a lot of the personaldevelopment.
If you're the part that youcan't sit there and read.
Evan Hoffman (11:44):
But for our listeners, they should be
listening to podcasts in thecar, not audio books.
Yeah.
Thaddeus Tondu (11:48):
Although they're already listening to it.
So that's one thing that you'vekept us something that you've
stopped.
What is one thing that you'regoing to start doing?
Cody McLeod (11:53):
I think getting my employees involved in the
personal development.
Because I'm changing, I'mrapidly changing.
We're gonna be bringing in newguys and stuff.
I want my guys in the field andin the office to grow with me as
well, yep and I want the coreemployees that I have right now
to be with me years from now.
Evan Hoffman (12:09):
I love that.
And that's something I just wentto any hour two weeks ago up in
Utah.
Phenomenal business.
Nice.
Unreal.
Operation, really, but one ofthe things that they do with
their leadership training, theirmanagement training, is just
dive into a book, and they jokedaround that it took them three
years to get through SevenHabits of Highly Effective
People, because it's such agreat book and there's so many
(12:29):
lessons within it, but it juststarted so many conversations
about how are you actuallyapplying the knowledge and I
think that's the thing thatoften gets overlooked with a lot
of people who are like, oh yeah,I'm going to read, a book a
month or a book a week for ayear and they get hooked on the
act of reading and they'remissing the application.
Cody McLeod (12:45):
Sure.
Sure.
Thaddeus Tondu (12:46):
Yeah.
Then that's, and that's a hugepoint because I think a lot of
people do that.
They're like, great book andnext book.
Yeah.
I'm guilty of that.
I did that for a long time.
Yeah.
I usually take something andpull it and put it in, just try
it as quickly as I can.
Yeah.
Depending on the book but.
Evan Hoffman (12:59):
Oh, and that's one thing that I've made a shift in
for myself is I don't go to thebook trying to learn everything
or consume everything.
I rarely even read it cover tocover.
I will look at the table ofcontents, find the one idea that
I want to take out of the bookand then I go deep on that idea
and then how can I execute onit?
And I've had to train myself outof that because that's not me.
Cody McLeod (13:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Evan Hoffman (13:19):
But I just, yeah, I stopped looking for everything
and trying to get everything outof it.
Events, too, that we go to.
It's one idea.
That's all I need.
Thaddeus Tondu (13:27):
So is it, somebody was saying, I can't
remember who the person was thatthey go to an event and when
they get the one thing that thatthey're going to implement in
their business, they just leavethe event.
They're gone.
They go home.
They're done.
Like they don't stick anymorebecause then you get compounded,
right?
It's like the people that arefervous note takers and they
just they destroy notepad in anevent and then okay what's your
one item?
Too much, right?
And so listening for that onething and then going deep on
(13:47):
that is a phenomenal part.
Cody McLeod (13:48):
And listening to the speakers is great, but even
having conversations, being onthis podcast, doing the little
stuff, like having theconversations at the restaurant.
Having coffee with someone.
I went on a 5K run this morning.
Evan Hoffman (13:59):
Oh, you got recruited?
Cody McLeod (14:00):
I got recruited for that.
I didn't know it was going to bea 5K.
You said we're going on a run.
Yeah.
But it was great.
We ran around Dallas Stadium,but those are the experiences
with these events and stuff andthose little conversations, just
like you're saying, you'retaking one or a couple things
from these events and I'm notreally a note taker anyways,
right?
Evan Hoffman (14:20):
So what's one thing that you wanted to get out
of this event and bring back tothe business?
One lesson, one thing to takeaction on?
Cody McLeod (14:25):
For myself I think For the actual business
operations itself, I wanted topartner with the company for
lead generation and we'remeeting some of the best biggest
and best names in the industryhere.
I was speaking to Mandeep and acouple others and stuff, I think
Hook.
Thaddeus Tondu (14:39):
and us, On Purpose Media, come on.
Cody McLeod (14:41):
Yes.
See, we're learning as we go.
So yeah, so it definitely just
Evan Hoffman (14:47):
Increased call flow.
Thaddeus Tondu (14:48):
Yeah, increased call flow and then, and it, so
in terms of call flow now, doyou feel that, because I think a
lot of times people say, okayI'm going to get more leads, and
I've had this conversationyesterday with somebody and okay
I want to get more leads.
Great.
How, what's your percentage ofanswering your phone?
And they're like I don't know.
I'm like, okay, we'll figurethat out before you go turn on a
faucet, right?
Because if you look at it andyou're like, okay, you only
answer 30 percent of your calls,you're fucked, right?
That's a shit number.
(15:09):
Like you need to be answering 85percent or north, right?
100 percent ideally, but we allknow that's impossible and so
it's looking at that now interms of the operational side of
things and walking that back,how do you know that you're
ready to increase the flow?
Cody McLeod (15:21):
My, the number one most important thing was
building the operations when Istarted the company.
Getting the customer service inplace, getting the technicians
and apprentices and building theoperations from the ground up.
Now we are ready where, we addvehicles and we add vehicles and
put the right people in place.
Technicians, apprentices, thefield takes care of itself.
(15:42):
But having that back in officestaff is where the real life is.
Thaddeus Tondu (15:44):
The real magic and that's it and that and now
you know, you're ready, right?
Because you have that learningexperience of putting in those
operational things to be able toturn on the taps and the spigots
and it's not the right time ofthe year to be able to turn on
some of those taps, right?
So starting to get hot.
Cody McLeod (15:58):
Yeah, we pretty much year round in plumbing.
We have a couple slow times likespring and back to school season
in the fall, but other than thatwe stay pretty busy.
Thaddeus Tondu (16:05):
Nice.
Let's actually talk a little bitabout marketing.
You're looking at some marketingcompanies right now.
How are you evaluating marketingcompanies?
What are you looking for inhaving the right person for your
business?
Cody McLeod (16:16):
That's a great question.
I've worked with a lot in mycareer.
We switched a couple times up atmy previous business and I think
I'm looking for, I'm looking forsomeone that I can personal, I
could talk to an actual personand work with somebody.
I don't know if it's accountmanagement or however you guys
hear it.
So somewhere where I can make acall and then we can make
changes as we go.
But I'm looking for someone tojust, grab the reins and run it
(16:37):
and it's not like I'm, I don'tknow what that looks like yet,
but I'm just looking for aprofessional company that and
someone that can help us groworganically first and build
steps where then we could buildour online presence with through
SEO and organic and then likeour social media presence is
already doing pretty well.
So I feel like we have the brandbuilt now.
(16:58):
We just need to build SEOorganically and then go after
the bigger fish.
Thaddeus Tondu (17:02):
The lead gen after once you get that, it's
like building a house, right?
You want to, you build the frameand put the roof on.
And that to me is your websiteand your SEO and then as you
start to, and you're likefinishing the outside of them,
as you want to furnish theinside, those are your fun
things like the lead generationand stuff.
Cody McLeod (17:19):
Yeah.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And we're doing the backyard,the pool and everything else.
right?
the rock slide.
Thaddeus Tondu (17:25):
Yeah.
Putting everything on.
Putting everything on.
Perfect.
As we do wrap up,'cause we wannabe respectful of the event and
your time.
Thank you for coming on by theway.
We do have one final questionhere for you and that is one
question.
What is one question that youwish people would ask you more,
but don't Tough questions today.
I know.
Tough question.
Yeah.
Cody McLeod (17:40):
Gosh.
Thaddeus Tondu (17:42):
Could be personally, could be
professionally, it doesn'treally matter.
Cody McLeod (17:44):
Ask me more questions about plumbing, I'll
say that.
I actually, I'm a, like I said,second generation plumber, and I
love plumbing.
I actually still get out therein the field with my guys.
I install plumbing, and I justlove what I do.
So whenever I can help anyone,even If it's a friend or
anything like that.
Yep.
I'm always one phone call away.
Thaddeus Tondu (18:04):
So how do I replace my own kitchen faucet?
hire plumber,
Evan Hoffman (18:08):
What do you feel like is lacking in the industry
right now?
Cody McLeod (18:11):
I feel like service is lacking.
Yeah.
I feel like it's getting into amore sales sales situation there
and I feel like as people are,on social media, you're like,
oh, plumbers are making all thismoney and everything, but it
goes back to the service.
Taking care of customers andproviding a good your, the sales
are going to come with it, butproviding a better service to
the customers is the foundationof plumbing.
Thaddeus Tondu (18:32):
Customer service is just, it's needed and so like
I've said this numerous times isthat if you have an average
product and an averagecommunication and this is almost
for recurring services andplumbing is one of those ones
that you can have recurringservices with recurring clients.
If you have an average productand above, and average
communication, you're going tohave average retention of your
clients.
If you have an average productand above average communication,
(18:52):
they're going to stay longerbecause of the above average
communication.
Now, if you have an aboveaverage product and average or
below average communicationthey're still going to leave.
Now if you can double downyou're gonna have both above
average product and aboveaverage communication man that's
doubling down and be able to winthe long term because people
just want to be heard they wantto have that service mentality
and they want to feel valued andwhen you can do that, you're
(19:14):
gonna win.
Evan Hoffman (19:14):
Just take care of people, right?
Keep it simple stupid, right?
Thaddeus Tondu (19:18):
Perfect well any other lingering questions out
there, anything you might wantto ask?
Evan Hoffman (19:22):
No, that was my last curiosity there was around
your feelings around theindustry.
So perfect.
Thaddeus Tondu (19:27):
Awesome.
For coming on.
That was a good show and untilnext time,
Evan Hoffman (19:30):
cheers.
Thaddeus Tondu (19:33):
Well, That's a wrap on another episode of HVAC
Success Secrets Revealed.
Before you go, two quick things.
First off, join our Facebookgroup,
facebook.com/hvacrevealed.
The other thing.
If you took one tiny bit ofinformation out of this show, no
matter how big, no matter howsmall, all we ask is for you to
introduce this to one person inyour contacts list.
That's it.
(19:53):
That's all one person.
So they too can unleash theultimate HVAC business.
Until next time.
Cheers.
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