December 10, 2020 • 26 mins
Actually recorded last December (2019), and stashed away for safe keeping, this special (pre-pandemic) Advent-themed podcast has Hyphenated Life joined by Elizabeth Myer Boulton, the President of the SALT Project. The Salt Project is self-described as "...a nimble, fun, boutique production powerhouse ready to create bite-sized social media content, commercials, visual mission statements, book trailers, and impression pieces for you and your organization. We love creating sharable, memorable film content that tells your story in a crisp, compelling way, helping get the word out about who you are and how you’re changing the world." Liz, Andrew, and David delve into their personal experiences in telling stories and how they find themselves living in the "hyphen" of God's sacred-secular world. This special "Adventy" podcast ironically (or not) includes spending a bunch of time discussing Good Friday as well as their favorite words.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to hyphenated life.
We invite you to join us on thisjourney to explore the
connection of the sacred and thesecular that inspires us to
become more fully alive.
(00:39):
Welcome to this, uh,
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Special edition advent podcast.
My name is Andrew Dardy.
I'm the senior pastor at pinestreet church here in Boulder.
And I'm joined today by David[inaudible], who is our
spirituality and the artsdirector, and also our executive
administrator.
Good morning, David.
Good morning, Andrew.
This is fun already.
Isn't it.
I'm having a blast having agreat time.
(01:03):
Very good.
And we have the distinct honorand privilege of talking to a
very special guest today.
Elizabeth Meyer Bolton of thesalt project.
I've known Liz for severalyears.
I think we met through the Lillyendowment network through
pastoral residency work manyyears ago.
And Liz is a storyteller.
(01:25):
She is a creative directorXtrordinair.
She's the founder and presidentof the salt project.
The salt project is an amazingand fun and creative and
boutique production company.
And they do social media contentcommercials, book trailers,
visual mission statements, andthey have worked with an amazing
(01:48):
array of corporate clients,including PBS target, the travel
channel O magazine and the OprahWinfrey network.
What so we welcome today.
Liz Meyer Bolton, Liz.
Welcome.
And thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you so much.
I think it is my honor.
And my,
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, I thought we could start today by having you
Liz share a little bit about thesalt project.
I'm sure you've never been askedthe question before of what is
salt all about and what it's,what is its mission and purpose.
But one of the core aspects hereat pine street church in terms
of our, what I call a six wordsermon is inspire life.
And there's something aboutthat, which makes me think of
(02:26):
one of the more famous wisdomquotes from African-American
scholar and author.
He was a key civil rightsleader, Howard Thurman, who once
wrote, don't ask yourself whatthe world needs, ask yourself,
what makes you come alive and godo that because what the world,
what the world needs is peoplewho have come alive.
(02:47):
And so I'd love to just ask whatis lighting your creative fire
the most right now in your workat salt and that is making you
come alive?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, well, um, so we started the salt project maybe
Speaker 3 (03:00):
10 years ago when I was pastoring in Boston and we
started making film based, uh,resources for congregations for
adult it or small group learningor house churches.
And then our family made a bigmove from Boston out to
Indianapolis and I, um, stoppedcongregational ministry and
(03:23):
really went into film and westarted to branch out a little
it's PBS and O magazine.
And we worked, um, with theObama foundation and Maria
Shriver's a, not-for-profit thewomen's Alzheimer's movement.
And, um, we've always maintainedour church resource side cause
my husband and I are both churchnerds, but we always have this
(03:46):
corporate side too, or this, um,visual mission statement side
and what I feel keeps comingalive for me or, um, what I come
alive is just the storytellingin traditional congregational
(04:06):
ministry, the preaching.
But now it's more of a visualstorytelling with film and just
trying to make kind of abstractideas, um, concrete for people.
So I'm just thinking of talkingwith Maria Shriver's, uh, people
at the women's Alzheimer'smovement.
(04:28):
They wanted to, um, visuallydescribe that Alzheimer's, isn't
just losing a thought or notremembering something they
wanted to have it evoke kind ofchaos in the mind.
And so through animation, we hada young woman whose hair Rose up
(04:50):
into, um, funder cloud and itstarted to rain and thunder and
lightning, and then the roomfilled up and things started to
float and it's, that's whatmakes me come alive is trying to
make abstract ideas, uh,concrete or a little moment that
(05:13):
someone can, can feel, um, or bemoved by something that's
abstract.
So, uh, what brings me aliveagain and again and again, is
that the, the beauty and thecraft of storytelling, making
something visual that remainsinvisible.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Wow.
That's beautifully said what'scoming up for me as you're
describing that is, you know,when you talk about having, you
know, one foot in the church,you are an amazing preacher.
Liz folks is an amazingpreacher.
I've had the privilege of, um,but I'm sorta curious too.
One of the things we've talked alot about and with one foot of
(05:57):
in the church world, andcertainly you're still working
with churches and obviously the,the corporate clients you've
worked with.
One thing that we've thought alot about is this sort of
sacred, secular almost thisfalse dichotomy or duality.
Uh, and we, we quote a lot, um,uh, Meryl, is it Marilyn lingo,
(06:19):
Madeline Madeline Lingle.
Thank you.
Um, you know, it says there isnothing so secular that it
cannot be sacred and we've beenreally playing with those
boundaries.
I'm just kind of curious in yourwork, how, how that works itself
out, especially with such deephistory that you have
theologically and spiritually inthe church, and also now, uh,
with really expanding yourvocational life with, with all
(06:42):
of this amazing visualstorytelling and what you've
just described.
Would you mind maybe saying alittle bit about that sacred
secular distinction and how itkind of works itself out in your
own mind and heart and work?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, I mean, for me, it's where Christianity sings,
its most beautiful melody.
Um, and it, you know, it, itpertains to Christmas and Easter
both it's it's that there is nosecular, it's just that that God
(07:17):
is under the skin of everything.
Even, even, even where you thinkGod is absent there, God is the
most present to me.
That's that's the Christian, youknow, hope and mystery.
It is that this dichotomy orwhat we feel is a dichotomy
(07:42):
between sacred and secular.
Um, but then, you know, thedeeper we get into our scripture
and the deeper we get into faithand our, our experience in the
world, those lines begin toblur, you know, so, so there's
good Friday, which you couldthink would be the most secular,
(08:05):
this sort of violence and thisplace that feels abandoned.
And then, and then we haveEaster Sunday, which transforms
good Friday.
It's like, and, and the factthat God is, is there at the, at
the heart of the violence, um,at the heart of the secular the
(08:29):
most abandoned place even thereGod is.
So for me, it's this beautiful,um, terrific collapse of those
categories, um, that, that Ilove about Christianity and
about my faith and about, um,just storytelling, you know,
(08:52):
everyone, everyone in their hasgood Friday moments.
They have the weeping that lasts, uh, during the night.
Um, you know, the, the Madonnaand child is the same Pia TA you
know, it's, it's the samemovement.
It's, it's God in both and allthe time, the sacred is the
(09:18):
secular I'm going to stop nowbecause I could go forever.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
That's a great David.
I know that, uh, we do a goodFriday.
I know we're talking aboutadvent, but we do actually a
good Friday musical meditationhere at pine street church.
And, uh, I'll let David talk alittle bit just briefly about
that and how this kind ofconnects to with the sacred and
secular, right.
(09:43):
I, my, my ears absolutely perkedwhen you mentioned good Friday
is perhaps the most secular, uh,Christian, you know, story event
in the Bible.
And, uh, we've, we've chosengood Friday, uh, to be our
annual sort of, uh, biggest, uh,presentation of music in our
(10:04):
church.
And we call it a good Fridaymusical meditation.
And what we do is we select asecular album, um, some sort of
iconic album that in particularmight tell a story might, um,
have some sort of deep spiritualundertones and themes.
And we perform it in itsentirety with a stage of
professional musicians, and weweave meditations throughout
(10:26):
that guided by Andrew.
Um, and so that absolutely isexactly what our goal is, is to
sort of try and shatter thatfalse dichotomy of that.
There is a difference thatthere's one world and another
world and something separatesthem because through those three
days, good Friday throughEaster, like you said, all of a
(10:46):
sudden, all of that is justflipped upside down.
And, uh, that's, that's, that'sone of our biggest goals with
that, uh, project that we doannually.
And this year will be our sixthyear.
I believe our seventh year, manyyears we've been doing it.
And, uh, so yeah, that was greatto hear you jump into that.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I got in trouble once for not in trouble, but it had
mixed reviews singing silentnight on good Friday, which I
thought was, um, a lovelytribute to Mary and the baby and
(11:33):
the[inaudible] and, you know,Christ the savior is born
through this, you know, atriumph over humiliation and,
and it bumped up against, um,some people's feelings about,
uh, disconnecting the twoholidays.
(11:56):
Um, but I kind of stand by it alittle bit, you know, I think
it's interesting, um, you know,shepherds quake at the site, you
know, like I feel like it's, youknow, to, to, to have the whole
story in the Christmas story orthe Christmas story in the, the,
(12:19):
um, crucifixion story and itworks well poetically with me,
um, and it, and it, it bringsout those sacred secular parts
of, of the tradition.
So I wouldn't, I don't know ifyou should do it on your big, on
your big, good Friday night.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Uh, I need to figure out a way to get that in there.
Somehow.
I love that.
I mean, it, in a way that makespeople cry for an unexpected
reason.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I know, I know we did candles, we did candle light and
everything held up in the hall,held them up like you would do
on on-site on a Eve.
Wow.
No, yeah, that's profound.
I know, I didn't know.
It's edgy maybe, maybe two.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I think you got in trouble for good, for very good
reason.
Liz, she get in trouble more.
So this is advent and a Holyseason of four weeks leading up
to Christmas, uh, for those ofyou who need a quick refresher,
a time of preparation,introspection focusing on our
souls.
Um, and I love what the saltproject, uh, when they talk
(13:24):
about advent, add that meanscoming at it's a time of longing
and watching, praying for God'shealing and transformative
presence to be ever morevibrantly present in the world.
I love that.
Um, and as Christians, the goodnews we strive to live by and
declare is this love is strongerthan hate peace, more enduring
(13:45):
than war hope, more powerfulthan despair.
And the light of God's love willextinguish forever.
The shadows of shame cast byviolence, suffering, sorrow, and
hate, Oh my gosh, that getssaid, that gets at the heart of
this advent season.
And those big themes that showup in our lives, the hope, the
(14:07):
peace, the joy, the love, andthat you say Liz, that the
season is also for simple thingsand keeping things simple.
And I'm just curious, what doesthat look like in your own life
right now?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Ah, it is a spiritual trial to keep things simple.
Um, I think advent is, is a goodtraining.
Um, I think about just the, justthe simple act of, of lighting a
candle.
He, you know, we sort of inchurch interchange that I belong
(14:44):
to or pastored, you know, we getup there and we light an advent
candle and there's of words and,you know, you sort of do it
because you're supposed to doit.
And I like to think of theshadows in the world that will,
will, that are designed to takeaway your hope or take away your
(15:06):
peace or take away your joy.
And then as a community, we cometogether and it's just the
simplest thing.
We light just this one candle ofprotest that, that stays lit and
can light a million candles.
But this one candle that stayslit against, um, the despair,
(15:31):
you know, and it's so simple.
That's what I just love aboutthe Christian Jewish is like
these basic elemental things,this one candle that, that
chases away the shadow, and thenit gets brighter and brighter
and brighter until ChristmasEve.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Um, again, my name is Andrew Dardy, senior pastor at
pine street, church of Boulderhere with David.
[inaudible], our director ofspirituality and arts.
And we're talking to the founderand president of the salt
project, Elizabeth Meyer Bolton.
And, uh, we're headed to thefinish here, Liz.
Um, but we totally ripped offJames Lipton from inside the
actors studio sort of, and wantto ask you, what's your favorite
(16:11):
word right now and why?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Um, there's so many good ones.
There's so many good ones.
Um, or maybe you guys couldanswer it and then I could come
in behind you.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I'm not sure I have a greatanswer either.
I was just flushing anyone'sever asked me, I think right now
my favorite word is grace.
Um, and I think it's not atheological concept, uh, to
(16:42):
believe in for me right now, asmuch as it is something I'm
feeling in my gut in my body.
Um, and just how radical graceis just how I'm just scratching
the surface of what that reallymeans.
Um, so it's, it's my favoriteword right now.
I think because it invites someextra curiosity and intrigued to
(17:04):
really kind of wrap my, my wholelife around what that, what that
is.
I think I've done a really greatjob at preaching grace in my
short life, my vocational life,but I'm not sure that's always
translated to me.
It sort of goes back to what yousaid earlier, Liz, about how,
you know, preaching in somesense really is self persuasion.
(17:26):
And I think I got into this pathin some ways, because I thought
I could be, uh, you know, amore, I don't know, faithful
follower of Jesus or something.
If I were a pastor rather thandoing something else in life, it
would, it would move me alongand inspire me in a different
way.
And, uh, I've reminded by aBenedictine monk that sometimes
the reasons we get into faithare not the same reasons that we
(17:48):
stay.
So that's definitely not thesame reason why I've stayed on
this path, but I, I do think,uh, we live in a time, as you
said, David earlier, some of theworry of bringing a child into
such a divisive world right now,in some ways, a very dangerous
kind of world.
Um, w what is, where is grace,uh, in all of that, it, where
(18:09):
how do, how do we, you know, getus get a step up on the path
toward what that really means?
And I think sometimes it's justtoo, almost, uh, it's so good.
It must be true kind of idea.
But, um, I think I'm really, um,yeah, just really intrigued and
curious about, uh, the depths ofwhat grace really is right now.
(18:34):
So I'd say grace is my favoriteword right now.
I have mine.
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (18:41):
My favorite word.
And I know it's kind of a buzzword, but I will, uh, complicate
it a little bit for you isvulnerability, which brand a
Brown talks a lot about, um,being vulnerable, but with eyes
towards Christmas and thinkingabout the deaths we've had in
(19:06):
our family, um, and just thesuffering in the world, um,
here's what Brenae Brown doesn'tdo that our faith does so
beautifully and wondrously isthat we can and should be
vulnerable.
And we have the courage to bevulnerable because of Christmas,
(19:32):
because God came with a softspot on his head because God
came with Mary's milk on hisbreath because God, you know,
walked the via Dolorosa.
And because God, um, wasvulnerable and breakable and,
(19:55):
and triumphed over, uh, that.
So we can be vulnerable in ourrelationships in community.
We can be vulnerable becauseChrist is with us because Christ
has walked the way before us,because every time we are
(20:17):
vulnerable, God is present.
Um, so I think, I thinkvulnerability, um, individually
and communally, um, is such abeautiful concept and a word I
keep, I keep coming back to andtry and strive towards.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah.
I, I find myself thinking ofthis, uh, almost in terms of
what is my favorite word or idea
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Ever, because I'm not sure that, you know, if I think
of the most, uh, frequentlyoccurring word in any of our
lives right now, it might belike impeachment or something
like that.
But that's far from the mostimportant word to me.
Um, and I certainly wouldn'twant to pick a negative word,
but I think, um, you know, andLiz, you opened up here earlier
(21:12):
talking about one of the thingsthat you love about the sort of
media work that you do is thechallenge of bringing to life
and evoking some emotionalexperience through your work
with, you know, in, in, uh,making a video for example, and
having people feel an emotionfrom that video.
Um, to me, uh, I think the mostimportant thing to try and keep
(21:38):
at the forefront of my life andpassion and goals.
And in my existence here on thisplanet is the idea of
transcendence.
Um, and how, how do weexperience that as often as we
can and, you know, it can be asemantical word.
Absolutely.
But, um, I think it's a pursuitthat leads you inevitably
(22:00):
towards experiencing life in thebest way possible.
So, you know, the birth of achild is certainly a
transcendent experience.
I haven't experienced it yet.
Um, but I would imagine atranscendent experience as we're
here coming into advent.
Um, you know, th the miraclenot, not referring to the Virgin
(22:22):
birth miracle, but the miracleof birth of Jesus, you know,
that is a transcendentexperience.
Something that communally wecan, we can share.
Um, for me, one of the biggestthings that it comes round to is
experiencing humans, creativityin the creative potential that
(22:42):
we have to impact and, and tellstories and, and, and
communicate with one another inways that words don't allow, um,
my background being in music,that's, that's where it is for
me.
That would also be my answer tothe other question of when was
the last time you cried, it wasat a concert in it wasn't for
(23:03):
anything in particular, otherthan just, I, I was brought in
Rose to a plane that you don'tnormally exist on.
And, uh, so that's somethingthat's important to me.
And, um, I try to keep that, youknow, on my radar at all times,
because the longer I go withoutthose types of experiences, the
(23:24):
sort of more difficult thingscan become.
And the more you lose focus onthe important things, the
transcendence,
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Transcendence, vulnerability, and grace,
exactly.
Come on.
I don't think I need any morepodcasts after the Donald.
The only, the only thing though,that might be a nice little
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Gateway into that.
I was thinking of Denise lever,Tufts, uh, enunciation poem, and
Liz, when you said, uh, the softspot, uh, on a baby's head, I
was thinking about a part of herannunciation, where it says to
bear in her womb, infiniteweight and lightness to carry in
(24:06):
hidden finite inwardness, ninemonths of eternity to contain
and slender vase of being thesum of power in narrow flesh,
the sum of light, then bring tobirth, push out into air a
man-child needing like any othermilk and love, but who was God
that's Denise lever tossannunciation.
(24:28):
I think grace ability andtranscendence is all captured in
that beautiful little verse fromLevertov.
So let that be our maybe adventbenediction for this
conversation right today.
And we are so, so lucky thatgoes deeper than the word, lucky
(24:49):
to have you Liz, uh, be part ofthis conversation, the salt
project, they say, we believe inamazing stories, bright colors,
glitter, kindness, ukuleles.
I thought unicorns were in theretoo, and good and good
conversations.
And this has been a really,really good conversation.
(25:11):
Liz Meyer Bolton.
Thank you.
You are a gift to us and tomany, and on behalf of our
church here at pine street inBoulder, we thank you for the
gift of your time today.
Thank you so much.
Have a deep
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And light and lovely advent
Speaker 2 (25:27):
With much 10 sentiments and grace and
vulnerability, as much as youcan handle exactly as much as we
can put in a Mason jar and morethanks so much.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
[inaudible] life is a production pine street church in
Boulder, Colorado hosted byAndrew Doherty and David podcast
is produced by Phil Norman andexecutive producer, Alexi
molding the special thanks toour guests today.
Leo Hill trust[inaudible].
Welcome to hyphenated life.
We invite you to join us on thisjourney to explore the
connection of the sacred and thesecular that inspires us to
become more fully alive.
(00:39):
Welcome to this, uh,
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Special edition advent podcast.
My name is Andrew Dardy.
I'm the senior pastor at pinestreet church here in Boulder.
And I'm joined today by David[inaudible], who is our
spirituality and the artsdirector, and also our executive
administrator.
Good morning, David.
Good morning, Andrew.
This is fun already.
Isn't it.
I'm having a blast having agreat time.
(01:03):
Very good.
And we have the distinct honorand privilege of talking to a
very special guest today.
Elizabeth Meyer Bolton of thesalt project.
I've known Liz for severalyears.
I think we met through the Lillyendowment network through
pastoral residency work manyyears ago.
And Liz is a storyteller.
(01:25):
She is a creative directorXtrordinair.
She's the founder and presidentof the salt project.
The salt project is an amazingand fun and creative and
boutique production company.
And they do social media contentcommercials, book trailers,
visual mission statements, andthey have worked with an amazing
(01:48):
array of corporate clients,including PBS target, the travel
channel O magazine and the OprahWinfrey network.
What so we welcome today.
Liz Meyer Bolton, Liz.
Welcome.
And thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you so much.
I think it is my honor.
And my,
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, I thought we could start today by having you
Liz share a little bit about thesalt project.
I'm sure you've never been askedthe question before of what is
salt all about and what it's,what is its mission and purpose.
But one of the core aspects hereat pine street church in terms
of our, what I call a six wordsermon is inspire life.
And there's something aboutthat, which makes me think of
(02:26):
one of the more famous wisdomquotes from African-American
scholar and author.
He was a key civil rightsleader, Howard Thurman, who once
wrote, don't ask yourself whatthe world needs, ask yourself,
what makes you come alive and godo that because what the world,
what the world needs is peoplewho have come alive.
(02:47):
And so I'd love to just ask whatis lighting your creative fire
the most right now in your workat salt and that is making you
come alive?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, well, um, so we started the salt project maybe
Speaker 3 (03:00):
10 years ago when I was pastoring in Boston and we
started making film based, uh,resources for congregations for
adult it or small group learningor house churches.
And then our family made a bigmove from Boston out to
Indianapolis and I, um, stoppedcongregational ministry and
(03:23):
really went into film and westarted to branch out a little
it's PBS and O magazine.
And we worked, um, with theObama foundation and Maria
Shriver's a, not-for-profit thewomen's Alzheimer's movement.
And, um, we've always maintainedour church resource side cause
my husband and I are both churchnerds, but we always have this
(03:46):
corporate side too, or this, um,visual mission statement side
and what I feel keeps comingalive for me or, um, what I come
alive is just the storytellingin traditional congregational
(04:06):
ministry, the preaching.
But now it's more of a visualstorytelling with film and just
trying to make kind of abstractideas, um, concrete for people.
So I'm just thinking of talkingwith Maria Shriver's, uh, people
at the women's Alzheimer'smovement.
(04:28):
They wanted to, um, visuallydescribe that Alzheimer's, isn't
just losing a thought or notremembering something they
wanted to have it evoke kind ofchaos in the mind.
And so through animation, we hada young woman whose hair Rose up
(04:50):
into, um, funder cloud and itstarted to rain and thunder and
lightning, and then the roomfilled up and things started to
float and it's, that's whatmakes me come alive is trying to
make abstract ideas, uh,concrete or a little moment that
(05:13):
someone can, can feel, um, or bemoved by something that's
abstract.
So, uh, what brings me aliveagain and again and again, is
that the, the beauty and thecraft of storytelling, making
something visual that remainsinvisible.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Wow.
That's beautifully said what'scoming up for me as you're
describing that is, you know,when you talk about having, you
know, one foot in the church,you are an amazing preacher.
Liz folks is an amazingpreacher.
I've had the privilege of, um,but I'm sorta curious too.
One of the things we've talked alot about and with one foot of
(05:57):
in the church world, andcertainly you're still working
with churches and obviously the,the corporate clients you've
worked with.
One thing that we've thought alot about is this sort of
sacred, secular almost thisfalse dichotomy or duality.
Uh, and we, we quote a lot, um,uh, Meryl, is it Marilyn lingo,
(06:19):
Madeline Madeline Lingle.
Thank you.
Um, you know, it says there isnothing so secular that it
cannot be sacred and we've beenreally playing with those
boundaries.
I'm just kind of curious in yourwork, how, how that works itself
out, especially with such deephistory that you have
theologically and spiritually inthe church, and also now, uh,
with really expanding yourvocational life with, with all
(06:42):
of this amazing visualstorytelling and what you've
just described.
Would you mind maybe saying alittle bit about that sacred
secular distinction and how itkind of works itself out in your
own mind and heart and work?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, I mean, for me, it's where Christianity sings,
its most beautiful melody.
Um, and it, you know, it, itpertains to Christmas and Easter
both it's it's that there is nosecular, it's just that that God
(07:17):
is under the skin of everything.
Even, even, even where you thinkGod is absent there, God is the
most present to me.
That's that's the Christian, youknow, hope and mystery.
It is that this dichotomy orwhat we feel is a dichotomy
(07:42):
between sacred and secular.
Um, but then, you know, thedeeper we get into our scripture
and the deeper we get into faithand our, our experience in the
world, those lines begin toblur, you know, so, so there's
good Friday, which you couldthink would be the most secular,
(08:05):
this sort of violence and thisplace that feels abandoned.
And then, and then we haveEaster Sunday, which transforms
good Friday.
It's like, and, and the factthat God is, is there at the, at
the heart of the violence, um,at the heart of the secular the
(08:29):
most abandoned place even thereGod is.
So for me, it's this beautiful,um, terrific collapse of those
categories, um, that, that Ilove about Christianity and
about my faith and about, um,just storytelling, you know,
(08:52):
everyone, everyone in their hasgood Friday moments.
They have the weeping that lasts, uh, during the night.
Um, you know, the, the Madonnaand child is the same Pia TA you
know, it's, it's the samemovement.
It's, it's God in both and allthe time, the sacred is the
(09:18):
secular I'm going to stop nowbecause I could go forever.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
That's a great David.
I know that, uh, we do a goodFriday.
I know we're talking aboutadvent, but we do actually a
good Friday musical meditationhere at pine street church.
And, uh, I'll let David talk alittle bit just briefly about
that and how this kind ofconnects to with the sacred and
secular, right.
(09:43):
I, my, my ears absolutely perkedwhen you mentioned good Friday
is perhaps the most secular, uh,Christian, you know, story event
in the Bible.
And, uh, we've, we've chosengood Friday, uh, to be our
annual sort of, uh, biggest, uh,presentation of music in our
(10:04):
church.
And we call it a good Fridaymusical meditation.
And what we do is we select asecular album, um, some sort of
iconic album that in particularmight tell a story might, um,
have some sort of deep spiritualundertones and themes.
And we perform it in itsentirety with a stage of
professional musicians, and weweave meditations throughout
(10:26):
that guided by Andrew.
Um, and so that absolutely isexactly what our goal is, is to
sort of try and shatter thatfalse dichotomy of that.
There is a difference thatthere's one world and another
world and something separatesthem because through those three
days, good Friday throughEaster, like you said, all of a
(10:46):
sudden, all of that is justflipped upside down.
And, uh, that's, that's, that'sone of our biggest goals with
that, uh, project that we doannually.
And this year will be our sixthyear.
I believe our seventh year, manyyears we've been doing it.
And, uh, so yeah, that was greatto hear you jump into that.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I got in trouble once for not in trouble, but it had
mixed reviews singing silentnight on good Friday, which I
thought was, um, a lovelytribute to Mary and the baby and
(11:33):
the[inaudible] and, you know,Christ the savior is born
through this, you know, atriumph over humiliation and,
and it bumped up against, um,some people's feelings about,
uh, disconnecting the twoholidays.
(11:56):
Um, but I kind of stand by it alittle bit, you know, I think
it's interesting, um, you know,shepherds quake at the site, you
know, like I feel like it's, youknow, to, to, to have the whole
story in the Christmas story orthe Christmas story in the, the,
(12:19):
um, crucifixion story and itworks well poetically with me,
um, and it, and it, it bringsout those sacred secular parts
of, of the tradition.
So I wouldn't, I don't know ifyou should do it on your big, on
your big, good Friday night.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Uh, I need to figure out a way to get that in there.
Somehow.
I love that.
I mean, it, in a way that makespeople cry for an unexpected
reason.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I know, I know we did candles, we did candle light and
everything held up in the hall,held them up like you would do
on on-site on a Eve.
Wow.
No, yeah, that's profound.
I know, I didn't know.
It's edgy maybe, maybe two.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I think you got in trouble for good, for very good
reason.
Liz, she get in trouble more.
So this is advent and a Holyseason of four weeks leading up
to Christmas, uh, for those ofyou who need a quick refresher,
a time of preparation,introspection focusing on our
souls.
Um, and I love what the saltproject, uh, when they talk
(13:24):
about advent, add that meanscoming at it's a time of longing
and watching, praying for God'shealing and transformative
presence to be ever morevibrantly present in the world.
I love that.
Um, and as Christians, the goodnews we strive to live by and
declare is this love is strongerthan hate peace, more enduring
(13:45):
than war hope, more powerfulthan despair.
And the light of God's love willextinguish forever.
The shadows of shame cast byviolence, suffering, sorrow, and
hate, Oh my gosh, that getssaid, that gets at the heart of
this advent season.
And those big themes that showup in our lives, the hope, the
(14:07):
peace, the joy, the love, andthat you say Liz, that the
season is also for simple thingsand keeping things simple.
And I'm just curious, what doesthat look like in your own life
right now?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Ah, it is a spiritual trial to keep things simple.
Um, I think advent is, is a goodtraining.
Um, I think about just the, justthe simple act of, of lighting a
candle.
He, you know, we sort of inchurch interchange that I belong
(14:44):
to or pastored, you know, we getup there and we light an advent
candle and there's of words and,you know, you sort of do it
because you're supposed to doit.
And I like to think of theshadows in the world that will,
will, that are designed to takeaway your hope or take away your
(15:06):
peace or take away your joy.
And then as a community, we cometogether and it's just the
simplest thing.
We light just this one candle ofprotest that, that stays lit and
can light a million candles.
But this one candle that stayslit against, um, the despair,
(15:31):
you know, and it's so simple.
That's what I just love aboutthe Christian Jewish is like
these basic elemental things,this one candle that, that
chases away the shadow, and thenit gets brighter and brighter
and brighter until ChristmasEve.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Um, again, my name is Andrew Dardy, senior pastor at
pine street, church of Boulderhere with David.
[inaudible], our director ofspirituality and arts.
And we're talking to the founderand president of the salt
project, Elizabeth Meyer Bolton.
And, uh, we're headed to thefinish here, Liz.
Um, but we totally ripped offJames Lipton from inside the
actors studio sort of, and wantto ask you, what's your favorite
(16:11):
word right now and why?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Um, there's so many good ones.
There's so many good ones.
Um, or maybe you guys couldanswer it and then I could come
in behind you.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I'm not sure I have a greatanswer either.
I was just flushing anyone'sever asked me, I think right now
my favorite word is grace.
Um, and I think it's not atheological concept, uh, to
(16:42):
believe in for me right now, asmuch as it is something I'm
feeling in my gut in my body.
Um, and just how radical graceis just how I'm just scratching
the surface of what that reallymeans.
Um, so it's, it's my favoriteword right now.
I think because it invites someextra curiosity and intrigued to
(17:04):
really kind of wrap my, my wholelife around what that, what that
is.
I think I've done a really greatjob at preaching grace in my
short life, my vocational life,but I'm not sure that's always
translated to me.
It sort of goes back to what yousaid earlier, Liz, about how,
you know, preaching in somesense really is self persuasion.
(17:26):
And I think I got into this pathin some ways, because I thought
I could be, uh, you know, amore, I don't know, faithful
follower of Jesus or something.
If I were a pastor rather thandoing something else in life, it
would, it would move me alongand inspire me in a different
way.
And, uh, I've reminded by aBenedictine monk that sometimes
the reasons we get into faithare not the same reasons that we
(17:48):
stay.
So that's definitely not thesame reason why I've stayed on
this path, but I, I do think,uh, we live in a time, as you
said, David earlier, some of theworry of bringing a child into
such a divisive world right now,in some ways, a very dangerous
kind of world.
Um, w what is, where is grace,uh, in all of that, it, where
(18:09):
how do, how do we, you know, getus get a step up on the path
toward what that really means?
And I think sometimes it's justtoo, almost, uh, it's so good.
It must be true kind of idea.
But, um, I think I'm really, um,yeah, just really intrigued and
curious about, uh, the depths ofwhat grace really is right now.
(18:34):
So I'd say grace is my favoriteword right now.
I have mine.
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (18:41):
My favorite word.
And I know it's kind of a buzzword, but I will, uh, complicate
it a little bit for you isvulnerability, which brand a
Brown talks a lot about, um,being vulnerable, but with eyes
towards Christmas and thinkingabout the deaths we've had in
(19:06):
our family, um, and just thesuffering in the world, um,
here's what Brenae Brown doesn'tdo that our faith does so
beautifully and wondrously isthat we can and should be
vulnerable.
And we have the courage to bevulnerable because of Christmas,
(19:32):
because God came with a softspot on his head because God
came with Mary's milk on hisbreath because God, you know,
walked the via Dolorosa.
And because God, um, wasvulnerable and breakable and,
(19:55):
and triumphed over, uh, that.
So we can be vulnerable in ourrelationships in community.
We can be vulnerable becauseChrist is with us because Christ
has walked the way before us,because every time we are
(20:17):
vulnerable, God is present.
Um, so I think, I thinkvulnerability, um, individually
and communally, um, is such abeautiful concept and a word I
keep, I keep coming back to andtry and strive towards.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah.
I, I find myself thinking ofthis, uh, almost in terms of
what is my favorite word or idea
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Ever, because I'm not sure that, you know, if I think
of the most, uh, frequentlyoccurring word in any of our
lives right now, it might belike impeachment or something
like that.
But that's far from the mostimportant word to me.
Um, and I certainly wouldn'twant to pick a negative word,
but I think, um, you know, andLiz, you opened up here earlier
(21:12):
talking about one of the thingsthat you love about the sort of
media work that you do is thechallenge of bringing to life
and evoking some emotionalexperience through your work
with, you know, in, in, uh,making a video for example, and
having people feel an emotionfrom that video.
Um, to me, uh, I think the mostimportant thing to try and keep
(21:38):
at the forefront of my life andpassion and goals.
And in my existence here on thisplanet is the idea of
transcendence.
Um, and how, how do weexperience that as often as we
can and, you know, it can be asemantical word.
Absolutely.
But, um, I think it's a pursuitthat leads you inevitably
(22:00):
towards experiencing life in thebest way possible.
So, you know, the birth of achild is certainly a
transcendent experience.
I haven't experienced it yet.
Um, but I would imagine atranscendent experience as we're
here coming into advent.
Um, you know, th the miraclenot, not referring to the Virgin
(22:22):
birth miracle, but the miracleof birth of Jesus, you know,
that is a transcendentexperience.
Something that communally wecan, we can share.
Um, for me, one of the biggestthings that it comes round to is
experiencing humans, creativityin the creative potential that
(22:42):
we have to impact and, and tellstories and, and, and
communicate with one another inways that words don't allow, um,
my background being in music,that's, that's where it is for
me.
That would also be my answer tothe other question of when was
the last time you cried, it wasat a concert in it wasn't for
(23:03):
anything in particular, otherthan just, I, I was brought in
Rose to a plane that you don'tnormally exist on.
And, uh, so that's somethingthat's important to me.
And, um, I try to keep that, youknow, on my radar at all times,
because the longer I go withoutthose types of experiences, the
(23:24):
sort of more difficult thingscan become.
And the more you lose focus onthe important things, the
transcendence,
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Transcendence, vulnerability, and grace,
exactly.
Come on.
I don't think I need any morepodcasts after the Donald.
The only, the only thing though,that might be a nice little
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Gateway into that.
I was thinking of Denise lever,Tufts, uh, enunciation poem, and
Liz, when you said, uh, the softspot, uh, on a baby's head, I
was thinking about a part of herannunciation, where it says to
bear in her womb, infiniteweight and lightness to carry in
(24:06):
hidden finite inwardness, ninemonths of eternity to contain
and slender vase of being thesum of power in narrow flesh,
the sum of light, then bring tobirth, push out into air a
man-child needing like any othermilk and love, but who was God
that's Denise lever tossannunciation.
(24:28):
I think grace ability andtranscendence is all captured in
that beautiful little verse fromLevertov.
So let that be our maybe adventbenediction for this
conversation right today.
And we are so, so lucky thatgoes deeper than the word, lucky
(24:49):
to have you Liz, uh, be part ofthis conversation, the salt
project, they say, we believe inamazing stories, bright colors,
glitter, kindness, ukuleles.
I thought unicorns were in theretoo, and good and good
conversations.
And this has been a really,really good conversation.
(25:11):
Liz Meyer Bolton.
Thank you.
You are a gift to us and tomany, and on behalf of our
church here at pine street inBoulder, we thank you for the
gift of your time today.
Thank you so much.
Have a deep
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And light and lovely advent
Speaker 2 (25:27):
With much 10 sentiments and grace and
vulnerability, as much as youcan handle exactly as much as we
can put in a Mason jar and morethanks so much.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
[inaudible] life is a production pine street church in
Boulder, Colorado hosted byAndrew Doherty and David podcast
is produced by Phil Norman andexecutive producer, Alexi
molding the special thanks toour guests today.
Leo Hill trust[inaudible].
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