April 22, 2021 • 41 mins
In this episode Andrew and David do something a little different by sitting down to discuss a topic that might not be the first thing to come to mind for a podcast that explores the connection between the sacred and the secular. SPORTS! and politics... Whether you like sports, or don't, or like "politics" in your sports, or don't, it can't be denied that the tapestry of our social fabric has every aspect of our lives connected, from Race, to Sports, to Politics, to Loving Kindness, and it's difficult to keep them all in their separate buckets. So please join us on this journey as we try to keep a wide angle lens on the world in which we live.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Andrew.
Hey David, how's it going?
It's good.
It's just you and me today.
Yeah.
We're going to try something onthis episode of hyphenated life.
Andrew and I are going to leaninto a subject that is near and
dear to both of our hearts and,uh, and have a special
hyphenated life angle for thissubject matter.
(00:22):
And that subject matter is
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Sports.
Yes.
Sports go Cubs.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh, fly the dates.
Yeah, go buffs.
Who else do we like?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Uh, Broncos of course.
Yeah.
Bronco.
I'm going to say that this isvery controversial.
Go Cowboys.
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Jerry Jones down there in big D Dak Prescott.
We love you to the big, the bigcontract.
Well, exactly.
I think you got some, um,volunteer in you, right?
I do
Speaker 3 (00:58):
University of Tennessee Peyton Manning.
Do you remember Peyton Manning?
Yeah.
Watched him at the university ofTennessee.
I would drive my 1983 blackSubaru up from Crossville to
Knoxville.
Whoa, and watched Peyton Manningplay college football for my
last two years of high school.
(01:19):
Wow.
And then a year after PeytonManning became the Broncos
quarterback.
I, I moved to Denver.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Wow.
Their lives are intertwined,really all like this.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
If only he would recognize that
Speaker 1 (01:32):
For our visual medium here, I'm interlocking my
fingers and an interlocking, uh,kind of way that represents
Andrew and Peyton.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah.
So David and I love sports andI'm not sure we loved politics,
but there's an inevitabilityabout, uh, these two subjects
and David here loves the DanLebatard show.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Right.
And, uh, and
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I think w w we do joke on this, uh, in this
conversation, right.
About you quote, the DanLebatard show as much as I quote
the Bible.
Right?
Theologically speaking,theologically speaking.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah.
I mean, we, we, uh, it's, it'ssomething that's in our, in our
faces and, and the thoughtoccurred to us that on
hyphenated life, we're alwaysexploring, um, topics at the
intersection of faith, politics,theology music
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Part in sports.
We're going to throw sports inthere now because sports
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Just facing a sort of similar conundrum to what we're,
what we generally are perusingaround in the world of
spirituality that, you know,there, there actually, isn't a
difference here.
You want to make this falsedichotomy, a false binary of you
have sports in one bucket andpolitics in the other.
And, uh, and, uh, you know, as,as we are living our lives, it's
so abundantly clear that youcan't do that because of these
(02:59):
things are deeply intertwinedin, there is a very much a, a, a
spiritual conversation to be hadabout what's happening around
the resistance to sports andpolitics, and to the impetus for
these players to be having theirsports filled with politics.
And again, it's not, it's notpolitics.
(03:21):
It's it's that politics hastaken over, uh, social justice
and, and things like that.
Um, they they've becomeintertwined in a way that's kind
of strange as far as labeling,but,
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And then as we'll talk about today, the major
heads of professional sports,not just franchises, but leagues
football, league, NBA, majorleague baseball.
I mean, we're in a, we're in amode in a time now where if you
want to make a statement, if youwant to make a social statement,
(03:53):
which a lot of sports leadersare these days, you hit people
where it hurts and that's in thewallet.
And so a lot of what kind ofdrove, uh, the episode that
we're, we're going to be, uh,talking about today and the
conversation today, uh, is thatmajor league baseball pulled the
all-star game out of Atlanta andbrought it to Denver.
(04:16):
Right?
And so when you think about allthe things that connect with
that racism, uh, policebrutality, voting rights, uh,
you look at those things, youlook at the Georgia voting laws
that, uh, Brian Kemp, thegovernor of Georgia, just, um,
just pass there, uh, what isgoing on, what is going on
(04:37):
there?
And, uh, so we'll be talkingabout some of that today and how
sports and politics, uh, connectduring these very heady days in
2021,
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Like it or not.
We got our sports and we got ourpolitics and they live in the
same.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
We talked about buckets later.
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Welcome to hyphenated life.
We invite you to join us on thisjourney to explore the
connection of the sacred and thesecular that inspires us to
become more fully alive.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So Atlanta, they took the major league baseball
all-star game out of Atlanta,moved it to Denver.
Yes.
And they did that because of anew Georgia voting law dubbed.
And I want to, I want to makesure everybody knows the name of
this, the election integrity actof 2021.
(06:00):
And what that does is, and aswe've talked about with
Christian nationalism is a coverfor white supremacy.
It's a cover for the things thatare misleading misinformation
about what governor Brian Kempand the state of Georgia, uh,
(06:21):
has, uh, has really misledpeople about what that is.
He thinks that that act, youknow, expands voting rights,
that it expands, you know,access for minorities.
What does that, what does thatlaw actually do?
Yeah.
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I mean, right.
Yeah.
It's, it's gaslighting,
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It's gaslighting.
That's, that's what that is.
And we probably need to takesome time to unpack that.
Right.
But major league baseball pullsout of the city of Atlanta, out
of the state of Georgia.
And they do this because ofwhat, why would they do that?
Because they know that itimpacts economically, uh, the
(07:08):
city of Atlanta, the state ofGeorgia, they do the same thing
for Superbowls and NBA all-stargames.
I mean, it's a huge economicimpact.
So when major league baseballsays, we're pulling out of
Atlanta and bring in the, bringin the show to Denver, thank
you.
By the way.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah.
My city that'd be a couple ofhome runs there.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Uh, it, it is a major economic impact and what better
way to make a social statementthan to, um, then to hit people
where it hurts and that's inthe, in the local economics and
the wallets, right?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It's like a form of sponsorship, the same way you
see, you know, when anindividual goes off the rails,
uh, their sponsors pull the plugand say, we're no, like, that's,
that's not a good look for us.
We're not going to put our moneythere.
Um, and you know, you also havecomplaints around that in the
same way that you havecomplaints around black
(08:09):
athletes, having something tosay about black people getting
killed by police officers in thestreets, um, there's this sort
of disconnect of, uh, humanityand what people are watching on
their TV.
They see it, they see it as acommodity made for them, for
(08:29):
them to consume.
And that's the beginning and endof it, the business of
professional sports is anentertainment business, but
there are real people playingthose sports, just like they're
real people like playing musicon recordings that you listened
to that, uh, you know, look backto the sixties.
I mean, the music of the sixtiesinto the seventies and the
(08:53):
impact that it had on our, thefabric of our society in
America.
I mean, it changed the course ofour country.
Yeah.
Um, and that's the same thing.
There's no difference betweenthat.
And, uh, and, uh, you know, thepeople behind the logo on the
NBA, uh, for example, um, butyeah, so major league baseball.
Yeah.
They said, no, thank you.
(09:15):
And they, they moved as similarto two years ago.
I believe it was the NBA leftCharlotte, North Carolina,
that's where their all star gamewas supposed to be.
And, uh, Charlotte passed somediscriminatory legislature,
discriminated againsttransgender people.
Right.
And, um, the NBA said, we're notgoing to support a state that's
(09:39):
that's, uh, you know, going inthe wrong direction.
Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah.
I was just thinking, you know,uh, CNN did a, uh, a great
little report.
It sort of summarizes what thisGeorgia law is about, which I'm
a baseball fan.
I'm a lifelong Chicago Cubs,Ryne Sandberg hall of fame.
Second baseman, uh, was my herogrowing up.
(10:05):
And, uh, you know, I remember myfather driving, uh, driving me
from Crossville, Tennessee toChicago, Illinois for my, for my
first Chicago Cubs baseballgame.
And it was a D so we saw threegames in two days.
It was the Montreal expos.
That's when the expos were stillin existence.
(10:27):
Um, what century was thatexactly?
Uh, I'm sure the century was1993.
Uh,
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It's a great year, by the way.
In 1993, a lot of great albumscame out that year.
Oh, really?
Well, that'll be anotherpodcast.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, that, that was an amazing, yeah, amazing
experience.
I loved Harry Carey was my, youknow, Harry Carey and who is a
sidekick for WGN, Steve stone,Steve stone, Hey, he's a
sidekick.
So that was my, yeah.
That was my church kind ofgrowing up baseball was my
church.
(11:02):
Um, but yeah, but you know,political wokeness these days,
right.
I mean, connected to sports, um,was just not even in the realm
of consciousness at that, atthat time.
Right.
I mean, it wasn't like any majorleague baseball commissioner or,
(11:24):
you know, the Roger Goodell ofthe time for the NFL final
fours, any of that w that wasn'tsports and politics, and maybe
I'm forgetting something becauseI was, you know, 15, but wasn't
really connected through all ofthat.
And now, now it is, I mean, welive in a different era about
(11:45):
all of that.
And, um, so yeah, yeah, it was,it was not, um, I connected
sports and politics when I was15 and a Chicago Cubs fan.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
I mean, I think one of the bigdifferences between 1993 and
2021 in
Speaker 3 (12:03):
How, we've,
Speaker 1 (12:04):
How we sort of metabolize the connection
between sports and politics isTwitter, Instagram, Facebook,
social media, it's cameras onour phones, which is the same
thing that's bringing to light,you know, uh, because in 1993,
was that, what year was theRodney King,
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Um, beating?
It was that 1993.
It was 1991.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Around there.
And that was someone filmingwith a, you know, a camcorder, I
guess, from across the street,like a balcony or something.
But now everyone has that intheir pocket and can pull it
out.
And with the swipe of yourthumb, you're recording,
whatever's in front of you.
And then with the click of acouple buttons, it's on the
internet for the world to see.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah.
And, and that, that has beengoing on, even when cameras
weren't on, right.
When you look at traffic stops,um, and you look at, uh, black
men being stopped.
I mean, you love the Dan[inaudible] show David.
Right.
Who's that exactly.
(13:15):
Um, and you know, recently theywere talking about, after
everything happened with Dante,right.
In Minneapolis, Minnesota, andsports, I mean, the
Timberwolves, the twins and thehockey team, I'm not a hockey
fan,
Speaker 1 (13:30):
The Minnesota, is it the wild,
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Oh man,
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Are there any listeners from Minnesota
Speaker 3 (13:38):
And out there, but they shut everything down.
Right.
They, they canceled their game,canceled their games in a sort
of protest about that.
And it's just a D you know,again, it's a different era when
we think about sports and notjust politics, it's not like
(13:59):
politics because we're trying toget somebody elected it's
politics in the best sense ofthe word politics, which means
for the good of the city.
Right.
So what are we doing for thegood of the city?
And, and, you know, when majorsports franchises get involved
in this conversation, it, itchanges, it, it, it makes it,
(14:22):
uh, even more aware.
I remember, um, uh, the dayafter the NBA decided to shut
down the rest of the seasonbecause of COVID right.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Got COVID on the Utah jazz and yeah.
And
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Stopped.
And then the world stopped
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Elites in our country.
Yeah.
It was a
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Wednesday.
It was like, I forget the exactdate.
It was in March, 2020.
It was a, it was the same daythat Tom Hanks and his wife,
Rita Wilson had announced thatthey had contracted COVID in
Australia
Speaker 1 (15:00):
At the time on a movie set in Australia.
So the very
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Day after, right.
NBA shuts, the NBA season shutsdown and Tom Hanks and Rita
Wilson come out with, with theirdiagnosis.
And it was like, if we had heardnothing before that we, if we,
if we didn't listen toscientists before that we were
listening to celebrities and tothe NBA.
(15:26):
Right.
And, and that changedeverything.
And even here in Boulder,talking to colleagues on church
row here in downtown Boulder, wewent from, well, maybe we won't
have communion on Sunday towe're suspending all in-person
gatherings in the church for theforeseeable future.
(15:48):
And it's been what, 13 months.
Um, so that's huge.
So when major sports franchisesleagues make these sorts of
decisions, it does raise socialawareness about those things in
ways that scientists and clergyand, you know, politicians
don't, they don't reach thatkind of, uh, level of impact.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Influence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a way, there, there is a sortof moral impetus and moral
calling for these people whohave an audience that's far
reaching and gives them a lot ofinfluence to say things.
Uh, that's also, they, they needto educate themselves because it
(16:37):
can go, it can go, can you gowrong many, many different ways.
Um, but I think, you know,historically speaking about
sports specifically, you, youhave, uh, a fairly storied
history of sports figures, um,becoming influencers and, you
(16:58):
know, uh, people who expose awhole new audience to two
things.
I, you know, you go going back,um, Muhammad Ali, I think of,
um, who, you know, his protestof the Vietnam war costs him the
prime of his career, arguablyone of the greatest athletes to
(17:19):
ever play a sport in the world,you know, this boxer.
Um, and, and, you know, you have, uh, the influence of people
like, uh, uh, Hank, Aaron, and,um, you know, Jim Brown, um, of,
of the Cleveland Browns, right?
Yeah, yeah.
(17:40):
Um, they, they spoke up whenthey saw, when they needed to.
Right.
Yeah.
And they helped form this, thisidentity of you do matter for a
whole generation of black peoplein our country.
Um, and, and this is kind offunny, like two white guys
(18:02):
sitting here talking about
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah.
Let's acknowledge that.
Yeah.
For all you listening to this.
Yes.
We are two white guys talkingabout this.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
But at the same time, you know, our platform is not
what LeBron James is, platformis, but we do have a podcast.
And, and so we like to take ourflashlight, even if it's smaller
than, you know, the spotlight of, uh, of, uh, um, you know,
LeBron, James is probably themost famous athlete in the
world, but, uh, outside of RyanSandberg.
(18:35):
Right, right,
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Right.
I still have his poster, ChicagoCubs.
Yeah, that's right.
I still have his rookie cards,
Speaker 1 (18:42):
But, um, you know, there is a history there in, in
the big difference now is wehave people kind of yelling at
the athlete saying you don'tneed to comment on issues.
The, and th the thing is sportsand politics, right.
(19:03):
That's always what they say.
Uh, but in reality, it's not thesports and politics it's really
happening.
It's, uh, athletes commenting onissues in society, specifically
racism and systemic racism.
And those are very differentthings.
Uh, I, you know, racism andsocial justice or injustice have
(19:27):
been a part of the politicalsphere conversation from the
beginning, but now there's likean equal sign there.
Right.
Um, gay rights, black rights,Hispanic rights, immigrant
rights, uh, equals politics andkeep that out of my sports.
(19:47):
Right.
Um, we're talking about the DanLebatard show, who is a sports
journalists in Miami, Florida,first-generation of Cuban
immigrants.
Um, he's one of my favoritepeople that I listened to.
He he's a brilliant mind, agreat speaker.
He's thoughtful.
He's considered the woke sportsradio guy.
(20:09):
Um, he has, he has recentlyteamed up with writer, comedian
producer, extraordinary AdamMcKay, uh, in, and they've done
some stuff here in a satiricalway.
Um, but the sports and politicsthing, they created this
character named Shane Buchalado,he's a sports franchise.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Talk about[inaudible] ,
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Co-host Harry, the horse, and they only talk
sports, all sports all the time,no politics, uh, you know, in
this, uh, they created thischaracter of trying to function
during the pandemic.
And, you know, Dan Lebatardsays, well, how do you, how do
you keep it all sports whenthere are no sports?
You know?
And he's like, well, we'll justgo back and we'll, uh, we'll
(20:53):
check out how Kyler Murray, youknow, how's that out route
looking, is it easy?
Is that ball spinning off thehand there?
Or, you know, how's hisshoulders, it loose, and it's a
satirical take on this sort of,you know, I don't want to become
insulting or name calling, butit's like this fairly bozo
mentality of no politics in mysports.
(21:15):
Like, first of all, there are,like I was saying before, there
are people playing these sportsthat isn't entertainment, but
they are real people.
And just like you, whoever issaying that, uh, they have real
lives and they feel things whenthe world happens around them.
And, um, the last I checked, andthis is, you know, something
(21:36):
that you hear screamed from theright about free speech, why
you're canceling us, you'reshutting us up.
That's a culture, right?
Yeah.
Uh, that's canceled culture,telling a black person they're
not allowed to talk about blackpeople getting killed in the
street.
That's, that's horrible.
Right.
That's horrendous.
And, um, so this idea thatsports and politics have no
(21:58):
place together, really.
There's no realm while therewhere they shouldn't be.
They shouldn't be compelled tobe together.
That's the story like, that'swhat,
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So I know you love the Dan Lebatard show, but you
know, it, it, it is there, thereis this irony when w w we're in
the George Floyd, America atthis point and everything that
we've been through over the last12, 13 months with, we've talked
about this somewhat in sermonswith pine street church and on,
(22:30):
on this podcast is the pandemicupon the pandemic, the health
pandemic and the racial petDeming.
And that hit a fever pitchright.
In the summer with George Floydin Minnesota.
Right.
And, uh, now what's going onwith the trial, uh, there w 10
(22:51):
miles from where Dante Wrightwas shot, right.
Killed by a police officer whodidn't know the difference
between a taser and a gun comeon.
Right.
Um, but when, when we look atall of that, um, I was thinking
about, uh, Colin Kaepernick,right?
(23:11):
The San Francisco 49ersquarterback who took a knee and
what three or four is, is, howlong has that been now
Speaker 1 (23:20):
A while ago?
I think it was four or fiveyears.
Years ago.
Yeah.
He was patient zero of thiswhole sort of keep our keeper
politics
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Out of my sports.
Right, exactly.
So, and, you know, I don't knowif Colin Kaepernick wants to
play football again.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, there's all sorts ofnarratives about him trying out
for certain teams and certainteams backing off of Kaepernick
because of his, you know,political Snus or whatever.
Um, he, it was a greatquarterback.
(23:49):
I mean, he went to, uh, at leastthe NFC championship game, maybe
the super bowl, super bowl, thehardball brothers were coaching
against that's exactly right.
And, but when you w when youlook at the irony of a Colin
Kaepernick, and you look at theirony of what happened to summer
with George Floyd, a cop took an, a white cop, took a knee,
(24:13):
right on George Floyd's neck,Colin Kaepernick took a knee in
a SIM, a powerful symbolicstatement, not to disrespect.
It's not about, not about theflag, right?
It's about the power of dissentin a democracy.
And that story, that narrativeColin Kaepernick's, you know,
(24:40):
mythology now becomes somethingdifferent.
It becomes, why did he take aknee in the first place?
And Roger Goodell finally cameout the commissioner of the NFL
national football league finallycame out to acknowledge that
what Colin Kaepernick did inthat time was, was poignant and
(25:04):
powerful, and that they did notget it right.
And so it's easy to get lost inthis political, um, you know,
matrix of how you define, youknow, what it means for a Colin
Kaepernick to take a knee in, infaithful descent.
(25:27):
And then we get a George Floydmoment where a white cop takes a
knee.
I mean, we sometimes forget thatkind of powerful distinction or,
or, or difference about, youknow, Kaepernick takes a knee
and he's just, he's done, he'sdone in the NFL.
(25:48):
Right.
You know, whether it'sblacklisted and then white cop
takes a knee, and we have allsorts of justifications about
that.
Right.
So here we are, 2021.
And, and these matters andissues are so entwined.
(26:11):
They're so connected and it'sdifferent today.
And for the end for somebodymaking, what, what, what is
Roger Goodell made per year?
Like, uh, I think it's around abillion dollars or something.
Yeah.
It's a lot for him to come outand acknowledge that.
I mean, that's been a three orfour year, Hey, the clue ferry
(26:34):
finally lands.
Right.
You know,
Speaker 5 (26:38):
There's a lot of stuff around a lot of this
that's,
Speaker 3 (26:42):
You know, how reactionary
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Was that for Roger Goodell?
How, how could he say anythingelse really in that moment?
Um, and certainly there's no badtime, no wrong time to do the
right thing.
Right.
Uh, but there's, uh, there was alot of time where he was, they
were, he, the NFL, the ownerswere doing the wrong thing.
(27:07):
Um, you know, yeah.
And, and it's there a bitbusiness and they're doing it in
response to their bottom line.
That's all they care about.
You know, there, that could be awhole other podcast, uh, how
much, you know, uh, moneyinfluences people in their
actions, in their decisions, uh,money versus integrity or in
(27:29):
what Colin Kaepernick did wasnot, it was not a show boating,
you know, it was not, uh, doneto disrespect the military to
disrespect the flag.
In fact, he, uh, I met with, hesought out and met with a green
(27:51):
Baret who, uh, who was actually,he played in the NFL for a
little while.
And he met with him and said,Hey, I, I, I want to do this,
but I don't want to disrespect,uh, people who serve in our
military, what I want to takethis opportunity though, to
shine some light on thissystemic problem in our country
and the green Berets one whotold him to kneel for the
(28:13):
national Anthem.
And so he did, and he's gone,you know, never, never to play
again.
And, uh, and, and yeah, it'sjust, the narrative was
completely, co-opted notnecessarily co-opted.
I mean, it, to first there, uh,uh, a viewpoint of it, you know,
(28:35):
to say, I don't like him doingthat because he's disrespecting
the military.
Right.
You're not listening to him ifthat's, if that's what you come
out the other side with, you'renot paying attention.
Right.
And that's, you know, that'syour problem, right.
Um, any kind of cursory glance,it's almost unbelievable that
(28:56):
people can't see this, but, um,you know, there is an issue in
our country with, um, lawenforcement, you know, and black
people, and this person who hada platform and Boyd did that
platform, you know, getamplified.
Um, they're, you know, maybenext to LeBron, James, is there
(29:18):
an athlete who has morenotoriety in our country than
Colin Kaepernick?
And he, he was a good footballplayer, but he wasn't LeBron
James right.
Of football.
And that, you know, you couldget any non-sports fan off the
street and say, do you knowColin Kaepernick?
And I bet you, I guarantee you,they would say yes.
(29:38):
Um, so he brought attention toit.
Um, and here we are, you know,like you said, he took a knee to
bring attention to it.
And, uh, we're in this, as we'rerecording this where they're
doing closing arguments for thepolice officer's trial in when
his need that he took killed ablack man.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Right.
And in here's where sports andpolitics intersect in such a big
way.
I mean, for Colin Kaepernick todo that several years ago, take
a knee during the nationalAnthem was an act of faithful
civil disobedience.
Right.
(30:23):
And it's hard to, to not connectthe politics of that, because
guess what happened that verysame week?
I mean, when this San Francisco49 or super bowl, you know,
super bowl quarterback took aknee.
(30:48):
What happened that week?
President Donald Trump said,wouldn't, you love to see one of
these NFL owners when somebodydisrespects our flag to say, get
that son of a off the fieldright now he's fired.
Uh, sorry.
(31:09):
But as soon as that happens,sports and politics are
intricately intertwined.
And that's what happened withKaepernick, right?
He, you know, he was not onlydoing something that was an act
of, of faithful civildisobedience.
He got called out by thepresident of the United States
that very same week.
(31:29):
Right.
And, and therefore, you know,you can speculate all day long
about, you know, does this guywant to really play football?
Is he wanted to be, you know, bethe quarterback, but that
started something that startedsomething that became bigger
than Kaepernick.
It became, uh, more symbolic ofwhat goes on in these, in these
(31:52):
moments when sports and politicscollide.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah.
We had a, uh, podcasts earlier.
I was, I think in season onewith George Mason, um, and we
talked, and it was a newconversations for the dinner
table, right.
This idea that you don't talkabout religion or politics at
the dinner table.
Um, and our lack of ability totalk about these things has seen
(32:24):
that gap widen in the interim,in the in-between when the NFL
started their 20, 21 or 20, 20,21 season, uh, back in
September, the very first gameof the season was the Kansas
city chiefs.
I don't even remember who theywere playing.
Um, but it was in Kansas citycause they were the previous
super bowl winner.
(32:45):
And that's where the first gameof the next season always is.
Sorry, Broncos fans might be afew more years on that one, but,
um,
Speaker 6 (32:54):
They had
Speaker 1 (32:55):
A whole off season.
I watched a whole summer ofprotest to try and figure out
what to do, how to say somethingmeaningful, powerful
non-offensive.
And they decided to send everyplayer, every coach from both
teams lineup across the entirefield, in link arms in unity.
(33:18):
That was the message we areUnited.
We are United together, theresponse heckling booing and
throwing things on the field.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
What the hell
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Happened between, you know, uh, Colin Kaepernick at
the advice of a green Baret,trying to make a meaningful
statement with his platform bytaking a need during a national
Anthem, which by the way,
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Has not always been
Speaker 1 (33:46):
A thing you want to say, keep your politics out of
my sports.
Why are we singing the nationalAnthem at every single major
sporting event?
Um, you know, why are militaryplanes flying over, you know,
it's already there.
So, um, you know, that, that,that our, and we're sort of
harping on that.
(34:07):
That's sort of a low level, youknow, sports doesn't need
politics kind of angle.
But, um, it, the point here isthat all of these things are
interconnected in a way thatcan't be disconnected.
And so what we need to do is sitdown and peacefully,
thoughtfully talk through thesethings together, right?
I mean, um, how, how is it thatlinking arms in unity gets
(34:32):
heckled booed and things thrownat it?
What happened to America?
What happened there?
Um, that's, it's just, uh, it's,it's sad to think, and I'm not
sure where it goes from here.
Um, you know, I, you saw overthe course of the season, things
(34:54):
progress, you know, there wereso messages in the end zone.
Like there there's enoughtolerance out there, um, in, in
that still making enough moneythat the NFL is kind of going
along.
Um, NBA is a bit moreaggressive.
They have messages on theirjerseys.
Um, but you know, you haveinteresting things like, because
(35:15):
these things are for-profitorganizations, right.
Um, that's what I was talkingabout.
There there's a bottom line ofmoney, but there's also a bottom
line of ethics and morality.
And, and sometimes you have tosacrifice the old Holy dollar in
the name of doing the rightthing.
Um, and, and I think that thepolarization of the two sides of
(35:39):
it's just every single thing isin one of two buckets, right.
Or left.
Right.
And, um, if something gets putin one bucket, how do you get it
out of that bucket?
Um, how do you get saying thatpolice brutality is a bad thing
out of a bucket that is labelingit as something that you can't
(36:03):
agree with?
It, if you identify as aRepublican, as a conservative,
how is, how do we get to thatpoint?
You know, and that's where Ithink these conversations need
to happen.
Not on Facebook, you know, notshouting things on Twitter, I'm
not watching network cable, butbetween each other.
(36:24):
Yeah.
Um, and, and that's, that'swhere we're at with this.
And, you know, things that arein our faces all day, every day
are, you know, sports andentertainment.
And these people behind them arespeaking up.
And I, for 1:00 AM glad they'respeaking,
Speaker 3 (36:41):
I am too.
And, and, and, and thinkingabout high profile people in
sports, speaking up, you look atGreg, uh, Greg Popovich, the
head coach of the San Antoniospurs who got attention recently
, um, when he became, um, reallyangry and very vocal.
And, uh, I think the USA todayhad a, a spotlight on, on that
(37:04):
story, like for five and a halfminutes, he was increasingly
angry and, and, and animatedabout what was going on in
Minnesota, uh, with the, withthe Dante rights situation.
And, you know, he said, it justmakes you sick to your stomach.
How many times does this have tohappen?
(37:27):
And, and Popovich says, as sickto our stomachs, that we might
feel that individual is dead,Dante right.
Is dead.
And his family's grieving andhis friends are grieving.
And we just keep moving on as ifnothing is happening.
You know, it's that the, howlong, Oh, Lord, how long the
(37:49):
Psalmist, you know, when we werein the wake of the, the mass
shooting here in Boulder KingSoopers, uh, it's like, what's
it going to take, what's goingto take for gun reform in this
country.
What's gonna take for, uh, for,for men of color, for black men
(38:09):
in this country, that whenthey're pulled over, whether
it's a expired tag, licensedtag, or, you know, um, a lie, a
brake light out in their car tonot fear that, that this is the
end of their life.
Like I could be killed rightnow.
(38:29):
I've been pulled over in mylife.
I've never feared that that wasgoing to be end of, end of my
life.
And, and when you look at whatis going on in this country
right now for a Gregg Popovich,for instance, in sports or
Goodell to come out, you look atthese intersection points and
(38:53):
you go, there's a cobweb effectgoing on in this country right
now, because when's this goingto end.
And, and, and for us to behaving this conversation today
after Dante, right, uh, beingkilled a few weeks ago, it's
just another moment of going,how freaking long, Oh God, how
(39:18):
long and what are we going to doabout it?
So I think there's power.
Um, and there's a leveraging ofpower that, that can happen when
a Gregg Popovich or, uh, RogerGoodell, or, you know, uh, uh,
Colin Kaepernick.
Who's making a very profoundsocial statement to say, this is
(39:43):
wrong.
And, and this sort of, uh,oppression
Speaker 7 (39:50):
Is it.
We have to speak out about it.
(40:15):
[inaudible] amazing.
Grace, how sweet, the sound thatsaved[inaudible] hyphenated
(40:44):
life.
It's a production of pine streetchurch in Boulder, Colorado
hosted by David[inaudible] andAndrew Doherty produced by Phil
Norman, executive producer,Alexi Molden, special, thanks to
today's guest, the Leo Hilltrust of Boulder, Colorado, and
pine street church.
If today's episode has inspired,you reach out to us at
(41:06):
hyphenated life on our Facebook,Instagram, and Twitter pages.
You can also findus@hyphenatedlife.org.
If you were looking for aspiritual community, we'd love
to join you on that journey.
Go to pine street, church.net tofind out more[inaudible] first
(41:40):
big.
Hello, Andrew.
Hey David, how's it going?
It's good.
It's just you and me today.
Yeah.
We're going to try something onthis episode of hyphenated life.
Andrew and I are going to leaninto a subject that is near and
dear to both of our hearts and,uh, and have a special
hyphenated life angle for thissubject matter.
(00:22):
And that subject matter is
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Sports.
Yes.
Sports go Cubs.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh, fly the dates.
Yeah, go buffs.
Who else do we like?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Uh, Broncos of course.
Yeah.
Bronco.
I'm going to say that this isvery controversial.
Go Cowboys.
Oh boy.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Jerry Jones down there in big D Dak Prescott.
We love you to the big, the bigcontract.
Well, exactly.
I think you got some, um,volunteer in you, right?
I do
Speaker 3 (00:58):
University of Tennessee Peyton Manning.
Do you remember Peyton Manning?
Yeah.
Watched him at the university ofTennessee.
I would drive my 1983 blackSubaru up from Crossville to
Knoxville.
Whoa, and watched Peyton Manningplay college football for my
last two years of high school.
(01:19):
Wow.
And then a year after PeytonManning became the Broncos
quarterback.
I, I moved to Denver.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Wow.
Their lives are intertwined,really all like this.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
If only he would recognize that
Speaker 1 (01:32):
For our visual medium here, I'm interlocking my
fingers and an interlocking, uh,kind of way that represents
Andrew and Peyton.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah.
So David and I love sports andI'm not sure we loved politics,
but there's an inevitabilityabout, uh, these two subjects
and David here loves the DanLebatard show.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Right.
And, uh, and
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I think w w we do joke on this, uh, in this
conversation, right.
About you quote, the DanLebatard show as much as I quote
the Bible.
Right?
Theologically speaking,theologically speaking.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah.
I mean, we, we, uh, it's, it'ssomething that's in our, in our
faces and, and the thoughtoccurred to us that on
hyphenated life, we're alwaysexploring, um, topics at the
intersection of faith, politics,theology music
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Part in sports.
We're going to throw sports inthere now because sports
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Just facing a sort of similar conundrum to what we're,
what we generally are perusingaround in the world of
spirituality that, you know,there, there actually, isn't a
difference here.
You want to make this falsedichotomy, a false binary of you
have sports in one bucket andpolitics in the other.
And, uh, and, uh, you know, as,as we are living our lives, it's
so abundantly clear that youcan't do that because of these
(02:59):
things are deeply intertwinedin, there is a very much a, a, a
spiritual conversation to be hadabout what's happening around
the resistance to sports andpolitics, and to the impetus for
these players to be having theirsports filled with politics.
And again, it's not, it's notpolitics.
(03:21):
It's it's that politics hastaken over, uh, social justice
and, and things like that.
Um, they they've becomeintertwined in a way that's kind
of strange as far as labeling,but,
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And then as we'll talk about today, the major
heads of professional sports,not just franchises, but leagues
football, league, NBA, majorleague baseball.
I mean, we're in a, we're in amode in a time now where if you
want to make a statement, if youwant to make a social statement,
(03:53):
which a lot of sports leadersare these days, you hit people
where it hurts and that's in thewallet.
And so a lot of what kind ofdrove, uh, the episode that
we're, we're going to be, uh,talking about today and the
conversation today, uh, is thatmajor league baseball pulled the
all-star game out of Atlanta andbrought it to Denver.
(04:16):
Right?
And so when you think about allthe things that connect with
that racism, uh, policebrutality, voting rights, uh,
you look at those things, youlook at the Georgia voting laws
that, uh, Brian Kemp, thegovernor of Georgia, just, um,
just pass there, uh, what isgoing on, what is going on
(04:37):
there?
And, uh, so we'll be talkingabout some of that today and how
sports and politics, uh, connectduring these very heady days in
2021,
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Like it or not.
We got our sports and we got ourpolitics and they live in the
same.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
We talked about buckets later.
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Welcome to hyphenated life.
We invite you to join us on thisjourney to explore the
connection of the sacred and thesecular that inspires us to
become more fully alive.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So Atlanta, they took the major league baseball
all-star game out of Atlanta,moved it to Denver.
Yes.
And they did that because of anew Georgia voting law dubbed.
And I want to, I want to makesure everybody knows the name of
this, the election integrity actof 2021.
(06:00):
And what that does is, and aswe've talked about with
Christian nationalism is a coverfor white supremacy.
It's a cover for the things thatare misleading misinformation
about what governor Brian Kempand the state of Georgia, uh,
(06:21):
has, uh, has really misledpeople about what that is.
He thinks that that act, youknow, expands voting rights,
that it expands, you know,access for minorities.
What does that, what does thatlaw actually do?
Yeah.
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I mean, right.
Yeah.
It's, it's gaslighting,
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It's gaslighting.
That's, that's what that is.
And we probably need to takesome time to unpack that.
Right.
But major league baseball pullsout of the city of Atlanta, out
of the state of Georgia.
And they do this because ofwhat, why would they do that?
Because they know that itimpacts economically, uh, the
(07:08):
city of Atlanta, the state ofGeorgia, they do the same thing
for Superbowls and NBA all-stargames.
I mean, it's a huge economicimpact.
So when major league baseballsays, we're pulling out of
Atlanta and bring in the, bringin the show to Denver, thank
you.
By the way.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah.
My city that'd be a couple ofhome runs there.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Uh, it, it is a major economic impact and what better
way to make a social statementthan to, um, then to hit people
where it hurts and that's inthe, in the local economics and
the wallets, right?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It's like a form of sponsorship, the same way you
see, you know, when anindividual goes off the rails,
uh, their sponsors pull the plugand say, we're no, like, that's,
that's not a good look for us.
We're not going to put our moneythere.
Um, and you know, you also havecomplaints around that in the
same way that you havecomplaints around black
(08:09):
athletes, having something tosay about black people getting
killed by police officers in thestreets, um, there's this sort
of disconnect of, uh, humanityand what people are watching on
their TV.
They see it, they see it as acommodity made for them, for
(08:29):
them to consume.
And that's the beginning and endof it, the business of
professional sports is anentertainment business, but
there are real people playingthose sports, just like they're
real people like playing musicon recordings that you listened
to that, uh, you know, look backto the sixties.
I mean, the music of the sixtiesinto the seventies and the
(08:53):
impact that it had on our, thefabric of our society in
America.
I mean, it changed the course ofour country.
Yeah.
Um, and that's the same thing.
There's no difference betweenthat.
And, uh, and, uh, you know, thepeople behind the logo on the
NBA, uh, for example, um, butyeah, so major league baseball.
Yeah.
They said, no, thank you.
(09:15):
And they, they moved as similarto two years ago.
I believe it was the NBA leftCharlotte, North Carolina,
that's where their all star gamewas supposed to be.
And, uh, Charlotte passed somediscriminatory legislature,
discriminated againsttransgender people.
Right.
And, um, the NBA said, we're notgoing to support a state that's
(09:39):
that's, uh, you know, going inthe wrong direction.
Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah.
I was just thinking, you know,uh, CNN did a, uh, a great
little report.
It sort of summarizes what thisGeorgia law is about, which I'm
a baseball fan.
I'm a lifelong Chicago Cubs,Ryne Sandberg hall of fame.
Second baseman, uh, was my herogrowing up.
(10:05):
And, uh, you know, I remember myfather driving, uh, driving me
from Crossville, Tennessee toChicago, Illinois for my, for my
first Chicago Cubs baseballgame.
And it was a D so we saw threegames in two days.
It was the Montreal expos.
That's when the expos were stillin existence.
(10:27):
Um, what century was thatexactly?
Uh, I'm sure the century was1993.
Uh,
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It's a great year, by the way.
In 1993, a lot of great albumscame out that year.
Oh, really?
Well, that'll be anotherpodcast.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, that, that was an amazing, yeah, amazing
experience.
I loved Harry Carey was my, youknow, Harry Carey and who is a
sidekick for WGN, Steve stone,Steve stone, Hey, he's a
sidekick.
So that was my, yeah.
That was my church kind ofgrowing up baseball was my
church.
(11:02):
Um, but yeah, but you know,political wokeness these days,
right.
I mean, connected to sports, um,was just not even in the realm
of consciousness at that, atthat time.
Right.
I mean, it wasn't like any majorleague baseball commissioner or,
(11:24):
you know, the Roger Goodell ofthe time for the NFL final
fours, any of that w that wasn'tsports and politics, and maybe
I'm forgetting something becauseI was, you know, 15, but wasn't
really connected through all ofthat.
And now, now it is, I mean, welive in a different era about
(11:45):
all of that.
And, um, so yeah, yeah, it was,it was not, um, I connected
sports and politics when I was15 and a Chicago Cubs fan.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
I mean, I think one of the bigdifferences between 1993 and
2021 in
Speaker 3 (12:03):
How, we've,
Speaker 1 (12:04):
How we sort of metabolize the connection
between sports and politics isTwitter, Instagram, Facebook,
social media, it's cameras onour phones, which is the same
thing that's bringing to light,you know, uh, because in 1993,
was that, what year was theRodney King,
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Um, beating?
It was that 1993.
It was 1991.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Around there.
And that was someone filmingwith a, you know, a camcorder, I
guess, from across the street,like a balcony or something.
But now everyone has that intheir pocket and can pull it
out.
And with the swipe of yourthumb, you're recording,
whatever's in front of you.
And then with the click of acouple buttons, it's on the
internet for the world to see.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah.
And, and that, that has beengoing on, even when cameras
weren't on, right.
When you look at traffic stops,um, and you look at, uh, black
men being stopped.
I mean, you love the Dan[inaudible] show David.
Right.
Who's that exactly.
(13:15):
Um, and you know, recently theywere talking about, after
everything happened with Dante,right.
In Minneapolis, Minnesota, andsports, I mean, the
Timberwolves, the twins and thehockey team, I'm not a hockey
fan,
Speaker 1 (13:30):
The Minnesota, is it the wild,
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Oh man,
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Are there any listeners from Minnesota
Speaker 3 (13:38):
And out there, but they shut everything down.
Right.
They, they canceled their game,canceled their games in a sort
of protest about that.
And it's just a D you know,again, it's a different era when
we think about sports and notjust politics, it's not like
(13:59):
politics because we're trying toget somebody elected it's
politics in the best sense ofthe word politics, which means
for the good of the city.
Right.
So what are we doing for thegood of the city?
And, and, you know, when majorsports franchises get involved
in this conversation, it, itchanges, it, it, it makes it,
(14:22):
uh, even more aware.
I remember, um, uh, the dayafter the NBA decided to shut
down the rest of the seasonbecause of COVID right.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Got COVID on the Utah jazz and yeah.
And
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Stopped.
And then the world stopped
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Elites in our country.
Yeah.
It was a
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Wednesday.
It was like, I forget the exactdate.
It was in March, 2020.
It was a, it was the same daythat Tom Hanks and his wife,
Rita Wilson had announced thatthey had contracted COVID in
Australia
Speaker 1 (15:00):
At the time on a movie set in Australia.
So the very
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Day after, right.
NBA shuts, the NBA season shutsdown and Tom Hanks and Rita
Wilson come out with, with theirdiagnosis.
And it was like, if we had heardnothing before that we, if we,
if we didn't listen toscientists before that we were
listening to celebrities and tothe NBA.
(15:26):
Right.
And, and that changedeverything.
And even here in Boulder,talking to colleagues on church
row here in downtown Boulder, wewent from, well, maybe we won't
have communion on Sunday towe're suspending all in-person
gatherings in the church for theforeseeable future.
(15:48):
And it's been what, 13 months.
Um, so that's huge.
So when major sports franchisesleagues make these sorts of
decisions, it does raise socialawareness about those things in
ways that scientists and clergyand, you know, politicians
don't, they don't reach thatkind of, uh, level of impact.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Influence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In a way, there, there is a sortof moral impetus and moral
calling for these people whohave an audience that's far
reaching and gives them a lot ofinfluence to say things.
Uh, that's also, they, they needto educate themselves because it
(16:37):
can go, it can go, can you gowrong many, many different ways.
Um, but I think, you know,historically speaking about
sports specifically, you, youhave, uh, a fairly storied
history of sports figures, um,becoming influencers and, you
(16:58):
know, uh, people who expose awhole new audience to two
things.
I, you know, you go going back,um, Muhammad Ali, I think of,
um, who, you know, his protestof the Vietnam war costs him the
prime of his career, arguablyone of the greatest athletes to
(17:19):
ever play a sport in the world,you know, this boxer.
Um, and, and, you know, you have, uh, the influence of people
like, uh, uh, Hank, Aaron, and,um, you know, Jim Brown, um, of,
of the Cleveland Browns, right?
Yeah, yeah.
(17:40):
Um, they, they spoke up whenthey saw, when they needed to.
Right.
Yeah.
And they helped form this, thisidentity of you do matter for a
whole generation of black peoplein our country.
Um, and, and this is kind offunny, like two white guys
(18:02):
sitting here talking about
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah.
Let's acknowledge that.
Yeah.
For all you listening to this.
Yes.
We are two white guys talkingabout this.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
But at the same time, you know, our platform is not
what LeBron James is, platformis, but we do have a podcast.
And, and so we like to take ourflashlight, even if it's smaller
than, you know, the spotlight of, uh, of, uh, um, you know,
LeBron, James is probably themost famous athlete in the
world, but, uh, outside of RyanSandberg.
(18:35):
Right, right,
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Right.
I still have his poster, ChicagoCubs.
Yeah, that's right.
I still have his rookie cards,
Speaker 1 (18:42):
But, um, you know, there is a history there in, in
the big difference now is wehave people kind of yelling at
the athlete saying you don'tneed to comment on issues.
The, and th the thing is sportsand politics, right.
(19:03):
That's always what they say.
Uh, but in reality, it's not thesports and politics it's really
happening.
It's, uh, athletes commenting onissues in society, specifically
racism and systemic racism.
And those are very differentthings.
Uh, I, you know, racism andsocial justice or injustice have
(19:27):
been a part of the politicalsphere conversation from the
beginning, but now there's likean equal sign there.
Right.
Um, gay rights, black rights,Hispanic rights, immigrant
rights, uh, equals politics andkeep that out of my sports.
(19:47):
Right.
Um, we're talking about the DanLebatard show, who is a sports
journalists in Miami, Florida,first-generation of Cuban
immigrants.
Um, he's one of my favoritepeople that I listened to.
He he's a brilliant mind, agreat speaker.
He's thoughtful.
He's considered the woke sportsradio guy.
(20:09):
Um, he has, he has recentlyteamed up with writer, comedian
producer, extraordinary AdamMcKay, uh, in, and they've done
some stuff here in a satiricalway.
Um, but the sports and politicsthing, they created this
character named Shane Buchalado,he's a sports franchise.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Talk about[inaudible] ,
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Co-host Harry, the horse, and they only talk
sports, all sports all the time,no politics, uh, you know, in
this, uh, they created thischaracter of trying to function
during the pandemic.
And, you know, Dan Lebatardsays, well, how do you, how do
you keep it all sports whenthere are no sports?
You know?
And he's like, well, we'll justgo back and we'll, uh, we'll
(20:53):
check out how Kyler Murray, youknow, how's that out route
looking, is it easy?
Is that ball spinning off thehand there?
Or, you know, how's hisshoulders, it loose, and it's a
satirical take on this sort of,you know, I don't want to become
insulting or name calling, butit's like this fairly bozo
mentality of no politics in mysports.
(21:15):
Like, first of all, there are,like I was saying before, there
are people playing these sportsthat isn't entertainment, but
they are real people.
And just like you, whoever issaying that, uh, they have real
lives and they feel things whenthe world happens around them.
And, um, the last I checked, andthis is, you know, something
(21:36):
that you hear screamed from theright about free speech, why
you're canceling us, you'reshutting us up.
That's a culture, right?
Yeah.
Uh, that's canceled culture,telling a black person they're
not allowed to talk about blackpeople getting killed in the
street.
That's, that's horrible.
Right.
That's horrendous.
And, um, so this idea thatsports and politics have no
(21:58):
place together, really.
There's no realm while therewhere they shouldn't be.
They shouldn't be compelled tobe together.
That's the story like, that'swhat,
Speaker 3 (22:09):
So I know you love the Dan Lebatard show, but you
know, it, it, it is there, thereis this irony when w w we're in
the George Floyd, America atthis point and everything that
we've been through over the last12, 13 months with, we've talked
about this somewhat in sermonswith pine street church and on,
(22:30):
on this podcast is the pandemicupon the pandemic, the health
pandemic and the racial petDeming.
And that hit a fever pitchright.
In the summer with George Floydin Minnesota.
Right.
And, uh, now what's going onwith the trial, uh, there w 10
(22:51):
miles from where Dante Wrightwas shot, right.
Killed by a police officer whodidn't know the difference
between a taser and a gun comeon.
Right.
Um, but when, when we look atall of that, um, I was thinking
about, uh, Colin Kaepernick,right?
(23:11):
The San Francisco 49ersquarterback who took a knee and
what three or four is, is, howlong has that been now
Speaker 1 (23:20):
A while ago?
I think it was four or fiveyears.
Years ago.
Yeah.
He was patient zero of thiswhole sort of keep our keeper
politics
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Out of my sports.
Right, exactly.
So, and, you know, I don't knowif Colin Kaepernick wants to
play football again.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, there's all sorts ofnarratives about him trying out
for certain teams and certainteams backing off of Kaepernick
because of his, you know,political Snus or whatever.
Um, he, it was a greatquarterback.
(23:49):
I mean, he went to, uh, at leastthe NFC championship game, maybe
the super bowl, super bowl, thehardball brothers were coaching
against that's exactly right.
And, but when you w when youlook at the irony of a Colin
Kaepernick, and you look at theirony of what happened to summer
with George Floyd, a cop took an, a white cop, took a knee,
(24:13):
right on George Floyd's neck,Colin Kaepernick took a knee in
a SIM, a powerful symbolicstatement, not to disrespect.
It's not about, not about theflag, right?
It's about the power of dissentin a democracy.
And that story, that narrativeColin Kaepernick's, you know,
(24:40):
mythology now becomes somethingdifferent.
It becomes, why did he take aknee in the first place?
And Roger Goodell finally cameout the commissioner of the NFL
national football league finallycame out to acknowledge that
what Colin Kaepernick did inthat time was, was poignant and
(25:04):
powerful, and that they did notget it right.
And so it's easy to get lost inthis political, um, you know,
matrix of how you define, youknow, what it means for a Colin
Kaepernick to take a knee in, infaithful descent.
(25:27):
And then we get a George Floydmoment where a white cop takes a
knee.
I mean, we sometimes forget thatkind of powerful distinction or,
or, or difference about, youknow, Kaepernick takes a knee
and he's just, he's done, he'sdone in the NFL.
(25:48):
Right.
You know, whether it'sblacklisted and then white cop
takes a knee, and we have allsorts of justifications about
that.
Right.
So here we are, 2021.
And, and these matters andissues are so entwined.
(26:11):
They're so connected and it'sdifferent today.
And for the end for somebodymaking, what, what, what is
Roger Goodell made per year?
Like, uh, I think it's around abillion dollars or something.
Yeah.
It's a lot for him to come outand acknowledge that.
I mean, that's been a three orfour year, Hey, the clue ferry
(26:34):
finally lands.
Right.
You know,
Speaker 5 (26:38):
There's a lot of stuff around a lot of this
that's,
Speaker 3 (26:42):
You know, how reactionary
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Was that for Roger Goodell?
How, how could he say anythingelse really in that moment?
Um, and certainly there's no badtime, no wrong time to do the
right thing.
Right.
Uh, but there's, uh, there was alot of time where he was, they
were, he, the NFL, the ownerswere doing the wrong thing.
(27:07):
Um, you know, yeah.
And, and it's there a bitbusiness and they're doing it in
response to their bottom line.
That's all they care about.
You know, there, that could be awhole other podcast, uh, how
much, you know, uh, moneyinfluences people in their
actions, in their decisions, uh,money versus integrity or in
(27:29):
what Colin Kaepernick did wasnot, it was not a show boating,
you know, it was not, uh, doneto disrespect the military to
disrespect the flag.
In fact, he, uh, I met with, hesought out and met with a green
(27:51):
Baret who, uh, who was actually,he played in the NFL for a
little while.
And he met with him and said,Hey, I, I, I want to do this,
but I don't want to disrespect,uh, people who serve in our
military, what I want to takethis opportunity though, to
shine some light on thissystemic problem in our country
and the green Berets one whotold him to kneel for the
(28:13):
national Anthem.
And so he did, and he's gone,you know, never, never to play
again.
And, uh, and, and yeah, it'sjust, the narrative was
completely, co-opted notnecessarily co-opted.
I mean, it, to first there, uh,uh, a viewpoint of it, you know,
(28:35):
to say, I don't like him doingthat because he's disrespecting
the military.
Right.
You're not listening to him ifthat's, if that's what you come
out the other side with, you'renot paying attention.
Right.
And that's, you know, that'syour problem, right.
Um, any kind of cursory glance,it's almost unbelievable that
(28:56):
people can't see this, but, um,you know, there is an issue in
our country with, um, lawenforcement, you know, and black
people, and this person who hada platform and Boyd did that
platform, you know, getamplified.
Um, they're, you know, maybenext to LeBron, James, is there
(29:18):
an athlete who has morenotoriety in our country than
Colin Kaepernick?
And he, he was a good footballplayer, but he wasn't LeBron
James right.
Of football.
And that, you know, you couldget any non-sports fan off the
street and say, do you knowColin Kaepernick?
And I bet you, I guarantee you,they would say yes.
(29:38):
Um, so he brought attention toit.
Um, and here we are, you know,like you said, he took a knee to
bring attention to it.
And, uh, we're in this, as we'rerecording this where they're
doing closing arguments for thepolice officer's trial in when
his need that he took killed ablack man.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Right.
And in here's where sports andpolitics intersect in such a big
way.
I mean, for Colin Kaepernick todo that several years ago, take
a knee during the nationalAnthem was an act of faithful
civil disobedience.
Right.
(30:23):
And it's hard to, to not connectthe politics of that, because
guess what happened that verysame week?
I mean, when this San Francisco49 or super bowl, you know,
super bowl quarterback took aknee.
(30:48):
What happened that week?
President Donald Trump said,wouldn't, you love to see one of
these NFL owners when somebodydisrespects our flag to say, get
that son of a off the fieldright now he's fired.
Uh, sorry.
(31:09):
But as soon as that happens,sports and politics are
intricately intertwined.
And that's what happened withKaepernick, right?
He, you know, he was not onlydoing something that was an act
of, of faithful civildisobedience.
He got called out by thepresident of the United States
that very same week.
(31:29):
Right.
And, and therefore, you know,you can speculate all day long
about, you know, does this guywant to really play football?
Is he wanted to be, you know, bethe quarterback, but that
started something that startedsomething that became bigger
than Kaepernick.
It became, uh, more symbolic ofwhat goes on in these, in these
(31:52):
moments when sports and politicscollide.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah.
We had a, uh, podcasts earlier.
I was, I think in season onewith George Mason, um, and we
talked, and it was a newconversations for the dinner
table, right.
This idea that you don't talkabout religion or politics at
the dinner table.
Um, and our lack of ability totalk about these things has seen
(32:24):
that gap widen in the interim,in the in-between when the NFL
started their 20, 21 or 20, 20,21 season, uh, back in
September, the very first gameof the season was the Kansas
city chiefs.
I don't even remember who theywere playing.
Um, but it was in Kansas citycause they were the previous
super bowl winner.
(32:45):
And that's where the first gameof the next season always is.
Sorry, Broncos fans might be afew more years on that one, but,
um,
Speaker 6 (32:54):
They had
Speaker 1 (32:55):
A whole off season.
I watched a whole summer ofprotest to try and figure out
what to do, how to say somethingmeaningful, powerful
non-offensive.
And they decided to send everyplayer, every coach from both
teams lineup across the entirefield, in link arms in unity.
(33:18):
That was the message we areUnited.
We are United together, theresponse heckling booing and
throwing things on the field.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
What the hell
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Happened between, you know, uh, Colin Kaepernick at
the advice of a green Baret,trying to make a meaningful
statement with his platform bytaking a need during a national
Anthem, which by the way,
Speaker 6 (33:45):
Has not always been
Speaker 1 (33:46):
A thing you want to say, keep your politics out of
my sports.
Why are we singing the nationalAnthem at every single major
sporting event?
Um, you know, why are militaryplanes flying over, you know,
it's already there.
So, um, you know, that, that,that our, and we're sort of
harping on that.
(34:07):
That's sort of a low level, youknow, sports doesn't need
politics kind of angle.
But, um, it, the point here isthat all of these things are
interconnected in a way thatcan't be disconnected.
And so what we need to do is sitdown and peacefully,
thoughtfully talk through thesethings together, right?
I mean, um, how, how is it thatlinking arms in unity gets
(34:32):
heckled booed and things thrownat it?
What happened to America?
What happened there?
Um, that's, it's just, uh, it's,it's sad to think, and I'm not
sure where it goes from here.
Um, you know, I, you saw overthe course of the season, things
(34:54):
progress, you know, there wereso messages in the end zone.
Like there there's enoughtolerance out there, um, in, in
that still making enough moneythat the NFL is kind of going
along.
Um, NBA is a bit moreaggressive.
They have messages on theirjerseys.
Um, but you know, you haveinteresting things like, because
(35:15):
these things are for-profitorganizations, right.
Um, that's what I was talkingabout.
There there's a bottom line ofmoney, but there's also a bottom
line of ethics and morality.
And, and sometimes you have tosacrifice the old Holy dollar in
the name of doing the rightthing.
Um, and, and I think that thepolarization of the two sides of
(35:39):
it's just every single thing isin one of two buckets, right.
Or left.
Right.
And, um, if something gets putin one bucket, how do you get it
out of that bucket?
Um, how do you get saying thatpolice brutality is a bad thing
out of a bucket that is labelingit as something that you can't
(36:03):
agree with?
It, if you identify as aRepublican, as a conservative,
how is, how do we get to thatpoint?
You know, and that's where Ithink these conversations need
to happen.
Not on Facebook, you know, notshouting things on Twitter, I'm
not watching network cable, butbetween each other.
(36:24):
Yeah.
Um, and, and that's, that'swhere we're at with this.
And, you know, things that arein our faces all day, every day
are, you know, sports andentertainment.
And these people behind them arespeaking up.
And I, for 1:00 AM glad they'respeaking,
Speaker 3 (36:41):
I am too.
And, and, and, and thinkingabout high profile people in
sports, speaking up, you look atGreg, uh, Greg Popovich, the
head coach of the San Antoniospurs who got attention recently
, um, when he became, um, reallyangry and very vocal.
And, uh, I think the USA todayhad a, a spotlight on, on that
(37:04):
story, like for five and a halfminutes, he was increasingly
angry and, and, and animatedabout what was going on in
Minnesota, uh, with the, withthe Dante rights situation.
And, you know, he said, it justmakes you sick to your stomach.
How many times does this have tohappen?
(37:27):
And, and Popovich says, as sickto our stomachs, that we might
feel that individual is dead,Dante right.
Is dead.
And his family's grieving andhis friends are grieving.
And we just keep moving on as ifnothing is happening.
You know, it's that the, howlong, Oh, Lord, how long the
(37:49):
Psalmist, you know, when we werein the wake of the, the mass
shooting here in Boulder KingSoopers, uh, it's like, what's
it going to take, what's goingto take for gun reform in this
country.
What's gonna take for, uh, for,for men of color, for black men
(38:09):
in this country, that whenthey're pulled over, whether
it's a expired tag, licensedtag, or, you know, um, a lie, a
brake light out in their car tonot fear that, that this is the
end of their life.
Like I could be killed rightnow.
(38:29):
I've been pulled over in mylife.
I've never feared that that wasgoing to be end of, end of my
life.
And, and when you look at whatis going on in this country
right now for a Gregg Popovich,for instance, in sports or
Goodell to come out, you look atthese intersection points and
(38:53):
you go, there's a cobweb effectgoing on in this country right
now, because when's this goingto end.
And, and, and for us to behaving this conversation today
after Dante, right, uh, beingkilled a few weeks ago, it's
just another moment of going,how freaking long, Oh God, how
(39:18):
long and what are we going to doabout it?
So I think there's power.
Um, and there's a leveraging ofpower that, that can happen when
a Gregg Popovich or, uh, RogerGoodell, or, you know, uh, uh,
Colin Kaepernick.
Who's making a very profoundsocial statement to say, this is
(39:43):
wrong.
And, and this sort of, uh,oppression
Speaker 7 (39:50):
Is it.
We have to speak out about it.
(40:15):
[inaudible] amazing.
Grace, how sweet, the sound thatsaved[inaudible] hyphenated
(40:44):
life.
It's a production of pine streetchurch in Boulder, Colorado
hosted by David[inaudible] andAndrew Doherty produced by Phil
Norman, executive producer,Alexi Molden, special, thanks to
today's guest, the Leo Hilltrust of Boulder, Colorado, and
pine street church.
If today's episode has inspired,you reach out to us at
(41:06):
hyphenated life on our Facebook,Instagram, and Twitter pages.
You can also findus@hyphenatedlife.org.
If you were looking for aspiritual community, we'd love
to join you on that journey.
Go to pine street, church.net tofind out more[inaudible] first
(41:40):
big.
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