December 24, 2020 • 16 mins
Merry Christmas Eve to all the listeners and lovers of Hyphenated Life podcast! Since Christmas Eve falls on a Thursday this year, the day of the week we release our Hyphenated Life podcasts, we decided to tickle your sacred vs. secular sensors with a delve into one of the formative quotes for the basis of Hyphenated Life. That quote of course is from Madeleine L'Engle, and her book "Walking on Water: Reflections on Faith and Art"
“There is nothing so secular that it cannot be sacred, and that is one of the deepest messages of the Incarnation.”
This idea has been both inspirational and foundational to our outlook on the world. We're excited to hopefully share this special day with you as we celebrate the humanity and the divine in all of us! Merry Christmas!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
[inaudible] [inaudible]
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Couldn't decide between starting to write my
novel or score my screenplays.
So instead of eight, three boxesof Mac and cheese, and then lay
on the floor panicked.
Well, are we ready?
Yeah.
Okay.
You want to start?
Do you want me to start?
I can start.
Okay.
Here we go.
Merry Christmas Eve, everyone.
And welcome to this bonusepisode on this Christmas Eve,
(02:16):
2020 of hyphenated life.
I am Andrew Dardy.
I'm David[inaudible].
And we're going to take just afew minutes to talk a little bit
about, Ooh, the scandal of theincarnation to put it in
fundamentally Christian termsscandalous.
And one of the, one of the bigstarting points for our podcast
(02:40):
is this wonderful MadelineL'Engle quote.
And David, I think we'veprobably quoted this more times
than we can count on almostevery episode because it's been
so formative to what we haveenvisioned this podcast to be
about.
And that is about breaking whatwe have considered false
binaries boundaries between whatis sacred and what is secular.
(03:03):
And one of those go-to quotesfor us is from the wonderful
writer, Madeline L'Engle, she'sprobably the most famous for
writing the book a wrinkle intime, but she has an essay I
believe called walking on water.
And this quote comes from thatessay and it says there is
nothing so secular that itcannot be sacred.
(03:26):
This is one of the deepestmessages of the incarnation
incarnation being sort of a,well, I guess a semi fancy
theological word for God, becomeflesh for those who wonder what
that even means.
So what does it mean for God tobecome flesh?
Uh, and that's where we kind ofget this idea of the scandal of
(03:48):
the incarnation around all ofthe birth narratives of Jesus
and the gospels.
One thing I kinda think aboutDavid is if God, we're going to
get the son of the most high tolose, to use St Luke's
terminology, couldn't have, Godmay made it easier on Mary,
right?
(04:08):
And on the Holy family and onGod, God's self to get Jesus
born into the world in a waythat was a little fuzzier, a
little easier in terms ofcircumstances, but God didn't
choose that way.
He chose scandal and messinessand humanness radical humanness.
(04:29):
So when we think about breakingdown these, these barriers
between what is sacred and whatis secular, we in some ways kind
of start with Christmas with thescandal of incarnation.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think this idea Jesus wasdespite being the son of God,
was not born with a silver spoonin his mouth.
He was born in a pile of hay.
And like you said, it wasscandalous.
It was messy.
It was real, it was human.
That's the incarnation, right.
Is God becoming human.
(05:02):
And a part of that, that is likeyou said, perfectly, this quote
has been formative to our whole,whole mission here with
hyphenated life in really, uh,trying to point out through both
cultural perspectives andreligious perspectives.
That that is a falsehood.
(05:22):
It's a, it's a made up idea.
And from the very, verybeginning here, we have God made
flesh, God was made human.
And so you can't separate.
The divine from humanity is, isone of the biggest messages of
that.
And if that's the case, theneverything is, you're not able
to separate anything, uh, thatexists in, in our world here.
(05:46):
So, um, it's, it's such abeautiful quote and it's, it's
simple and straightforward.
And you also mentioned we've, wecan't even count the number of
times that we've said it.
So, um, we decided we'd justhave a whole little mini bonus
episode here about it because itis that important.
It is fundamental to everythingthat we're talking about, you
(06:08):
know, whether we're talking with, um, you know, presidents of
schools of divinity or, um, youknow, artists or musicians or,
um, lawyers or doctors or otherpriests and reverends, um, this,
(06:29):
this is at the core of it.
We want this to permeateeverything in the way that we
view the world and experiencethe world that, that there is
nothing so secular that itcannot be sacred.
That being the deepest messageof the incarnation, it's a
beautiful idea and perfect forthis day today, Christmas Eve,
(06:51):
or if you're listening to itlater down the line probably
recently just celebratedChristmas and the holidays.
And, um, it's easy to forgetabout, Oh, with everything going
on, normally in a normalChristmas season, um, that, that
is, you know, at the heart ofwhat, what this holiday w what
this, this day is about, right,is God made flesh in the form of
(07:17):
an innocent baby child.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes.
The, the miracle of materialitythat God so loved the world and
that God so loved human beings.
That God became one.
I mean, that's also part of thescandal of Christianity that
somewhere along the way, how didwe lose that profundity, right?
How did we lose, uh, thatenormous sense of the
(07:42):
physicality of, of divinity in alot of ways, the more we become
human, uh, in some ways theholier we become to the Holy and
the human uniting.
I love what, uh, we've talkedabout Richard Rohr, probably on
this podcast, certainly insermons at pine street church
over the last three and a halfyears, I've probably quoted him
(08:04):
more than anyone else, but this,this idea of the scandal of
incarnation of God become flesh.
You know, part of that is, isthe, is the beauty and the
genius of Christianity, and weought to embrace it.
And so how do we embrace it inways?
Um, that lends itself to thereality of everyday life, that
(08:27):
every person listening has theirsadnesses, especially this time
of year, their grief times whenlife has disrupted their plans,
as it was with Mary, the motherof Jesus in the central part of,
uh, the feast of the nativitystory in all the gospels.
So we're with you out theretoday, thinking about everything
(08:50):
we bring to bear on what itmeans to be a human being who is
fully alive the world.
It doesn't come in NormanRockwell scenes always.
And it certainly didn't comethat way with Jesus.
So on this day, when wecelebrate well on the Eve, right
of the feast of the incarnation,we think about what it means to
(09:11):
be fully human.
And we think about all of youlistening today who have
experienced loss this year, allof us in the atmosphere of the
world have experienced the lossof we've been physically
distanced from our loved ones.
We've been distanced from aworld that we could never have
imagined pre March, right?
(09:33):
Uh, and we are living in thisodd and strange time in which we
welcome Christ to be born againinto our lives into strange and
weird and odd circumstances.
And that was the case with thebirth story of Jesus too.
Uh, I keep thinking about Godcould have made this a whole lot
(09:54):
easier on Jesus, Mary andJoseph, but for whatever reason,
this is the story we haveembraced.
And the story that is at theheart of Christianity and that
we celebrate in this season,that truly he is odd and strange
and surreal in so many differentways.
(10:15):
And I can only imagine it wasthe same for Mary when she got
this divine birth announcementfrom the angel Gabriel, that she
was going to bear a son, and itwas going to be Jesus son of the
most high, Oh my gosh, not, weget hung up on the Virgin birth
(10:35):
of Mary, but sometimes we forgetthe profound and powerful and
ferocious yes.
That she said in the midst of,you know, that she agreed with
God that she accepted God'sinvitation, uh, to bear God's
son in the world.
And I often think about this,uh, Denise Levertov poem is
(11:01):
we're talking about otherwriters and poets.
It's called the enunciation.
And I love this because when wethink about Christmas being the
feast in which we celebrateagain, this miracle of
materiality, I love these brieflines from Denise.
Levertov that say this call theannunciation to bear in her
womb, infinite weight andlightness to carry in hidden
(11:26):
finite inwardness, nine monthsof eternity to contain and
slender vase of being the sum ofpower in narrow flesh, the sum
of light, then bring to birth,push out into air, a man, child
needing light, any other milkand love, but who was God?
(11:52):
Now that's utterly and utterlyhuman.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
That is, that is God made flesh the incarnation.
We've made it this far in 2020.
Here we are on the Eve of thefeast of the incarnation,
Christmas Eve, and fromhyphenated life.
We appreciate every singleperson out there.
Who's been a part of helping tomake this happen.
(12:15):
And, uh, every person who'slistened to, even a second of
this, uh, we are eternallygrateful.
And from our heart to yours, wewish you Merry Christmas and
happy holidays,
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
Everybody, a Merry Christmas,David, and same to you, Andrew,
Merry Christmas, MerryChristmas, everybody.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you have a beautiful andspecial day, and if you don't
have a place to worship today,online, you can join us at 5:00
PM today.
If you're listening to this onChristmas Eve before 5:00 PM,
(12:52):
you can join us on the pinestreet church, YouTube channel
for a special Christmas Eveservice again, 5:00 PM today at
the pine street church, YouTubechannel.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Uh[inaudible] Oh, [inaudible][inaudible] uh,
(13:47):
[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible]
(14:36):
[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible]
(15:00):
[inaudible] uh,[inaudible] uh[inaudible][inaudible]
(15:51):
[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible] uh,
[inaudible] [inaudible]
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Couldn't decide between starting to write my
novel or score my screenplays.
So instead of eight, three boxesof Mac and cheese, and then lay
on the floor panicked.
Well, are we ready?
Yeah.
Okay.
You want to start?
Do you want me to start?
I can start.
Okay.
Here we go.
Merry Christmas Eve, everyone.
And welcome to this bonusepisode on this Christmas Eve,
(02:16):
2020 of hyphenated life.
I am Andrew Dardy.
I'm David[inaudible].
And we're going to take just afew minutes to talk a little bit
about, Ooh, the scandal of theincarnation to put it in
fundamentally Christian termsscandalous.
And one of the, one of the bigstarting points for our podcast
(02:40):
is this wonderful MadelineL'Engle quote.
And David, I think we'veprobably quoted this more times
than we can count on almostevery episode because it's been
so formative to what we haveenvisioned this podcast to be
about.
And that is about breaking whatwe have considered false
binaries boundaries between whatis sacred and what is secular.
(03:03):
And one of those go-to quotesfor us is from the wonderful
writer, Madeline L'Engle, she'sprobably the most famous for
writing the book a wrinkle intime, but she has an essay I
believe called walking on water.
And this quote comes from thatessay and it says there is
nothing so secular that itcannot be sacred.
(03:26):
This is one of the deepestmessages of the incarnation
incarnation being sort of a,well, I guess a semi fancy
theological word for God, becomeflesh for those who wonder what
that even means.
So what does it mean for God tobecome flesh?
Uh, and that's where we kind ofget this idea of the scandal of
(03:48):
the incarnation around all ofthe birth narratives of Jesus
and the gospels.
One thing I kinda think aboutDavid is if God, we're going to
get the son of the most high tolose, to use St Luke's
terminology, couldn't have, Godmay made it easier on Mary,
right?
(04:08):
And on the Holy family and onGod, God's self to get Jesus
born into the world in a waythat was a little fuzzier, a
little easier in terms ofcircumstances, but God didn't
choose that way.
He chose scandal and messinessand humanness radical humanness.
(04:29):
So when we think about breakingdown these, these barriers
between what is sacred and whatis secular, we in some ways kind
of start with Christmas with thescandal of incarnation.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think this idea Jesus wasdespite being the son of God,
was not born with a silver spoonin his mouth.
He was born in a pile of hay.
And like you said, it wasscandalous.
It was messy.
It was real, it was human.
That's the incarnation, right.
Is God becoming human.
(05:02):
And a part of that, that is likeyou said, perfectly, this quote
has been formative to our whole,whole mission here with
hyphenated life in really, uh,trying to point out through both
cultural perspectives andreligious perspectives.
That that is a falsehood.
(05:22):
It's a, it's a made up idea.
And from the very, verybeginning here, we have God made
flesh, God was made human.
And so you can't separate.
The divine from humanity is, isone of the biggest messages of
that.
And if that's the case, theneverything is, you're not able
to separate anything, uh, thatexists in, in our world here.
(05:46):
So, um, it's, it's such abeautiful quote and it's, it's
simple and straightforward.
And you also mentioned we've, wecan't even count the number of
times that we've said it.
So, um, we decided we'd justhave a whole little mini bonus
episode here about it because itis that important.
It is fundamental to everythingthat we're talking about, you
(06:08):
know, whether we're talking with, um, you know, presidents of
schools of divinity or, um, youknow, artists or musicians or,
um, lawyers or doctors or otherpriests and reverends, um, this,
(06:29):
this is at the core of it.
We want this to permeateeverything in the way that we
view the world and experiencethe world that, that there is
nothing so secular that itcannot be sacred.
That being the deepest messageof the incarnation, it's a
beautiful idea and perfect forthis day today, Christmas Eve,
(06:51):
or if you're listening to itlater down the line probably
recently just celebratedChristmas and the holidays.
And, um, it's easy to forgetabout, Oh, with everything going
on, normally in a normalChristmas season, um, that, that
is, you know, at the heart ofwhat, what this holiday w what
this, this day is about, right,is God made flesh in the form of
(07:17):
an innocent baby child.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes.
The, the miracle of materialitythat God so loved the world and
that God so loved human beings.
That God became one.
I mean, that's also part of thescandal of Christianity that
somewhere along the way, how didwe lose that profundity, right?
How did we lose, uh, thatenormous sense of the
(07:42):
physicality of, of divinity in alot of ways, the more we become
human, uh, in some ways theholier we become to the Holy and
the human uniting.
I love what, uh, we've talkedabout Richard Rohr, probably on
this podcast, certainly insermons at pine street church
over the last three and a halfyears, I've probably quoted him
(08:04):
more than anyone else, but this,this idea of the scandal of
incarnation of God become flesh.
You know, part of that is, isthe, is the beauty and the
genius of Christianity, and weought to embrace it.
And so how do we embrace it inways?
Um, that lends itself to thereality of everyday life, that
(08:27):
every person listening has theirsadnesses, especially this time
of year, their grief times whenlife has disrupted their plans,
as it was with Mary, the motherof Jesus in the central part of,
uh, the feast of the nativitystory in all the gospels.
So we're with you out theretoday, thinking about everything
(08:50):
we bring to bear on what itmeans to be a human being who is
fully alive the world.
It doesn't come in NormanRockwell scenes always.
And it certainly didn't comethat way with Jesus.
So on this day, when wecelebrate well on the Eve, right
of the feast of the incarnation,we think about what it means to
(09:11):
be fully human.
And we think about all of youlistening today who have
experienced loss this year, allof us in the atmosphere of the
world have experienced the lossof we've been physically
distanced from our loved ones.
We've been distanced from aworld that we could never have
imagined pre March, right?
(09:33):
Uh, and we are living in thisodd and strange time in which we
welcome Christ to be born againinto our lives into strange and
weird and odd circumstances.
And that was the case with thebirth story of Jesus too.
Uh, I keep thinking about Godcould have made this a whole lot
(09:54):
easier on Jesus, Mary andJoseph, but for whatever reason,
this is the story we haveembraced.
And the story that is at theheart of Christianity and that
we celebrate in this season,that truly he is odd and strange
and surreal in so many differentways.
(10:15):
And I can only imagine it wasthe same for Mary when she got
this divine birth announcementfrom the angel Gabriel, that she
was going to bear a son, and itwas going to be Jesus son of the
most high, Oh my gosh, not, weget hung up on the Virgin birth
(10:35):
of Mary, but sometimes we forgetthe profound and powerful and
ferocious yes.
That she said in the midst of,you know, that she agreed with
God that she accepted God'sinvitation, uh, to bear God's
son in the world.
And I often think about this,uh, Denise Levertov poem is
(11:01):
we're talking about otherwriters and poets.
It's called the enunciation.
And I love this because when wethink about Christmas being the
feast in which we celebrateagain, this miracle of
materiality, I love these brieflines from Denise.
Levertov that say this call theannunciation to bear in her
womb, infinite weight andlightness to carry in hidden
(11:26):
finite inwardness, nine monthsof eternity to contain and
slender vase of being the sum ofpower in narrow flesh, the sum
of light, then bring to birth,push out into air, a man, child
needing light, any other milkand love, but who was God?
(11:52):
Now that's utterly and utterlyhuman.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
That is, that is God made flesh the incarnation.
We've made it this far in 2020.
Here we are on the Eve of thefeast of the incarnation,
Christmas Eve, and fromhyphenated life.
We appreciate every singleperson out there.
Who's been a part of helping tomake this happen.
(12:15):
And, uh, every person who'slistened to, even a second of
this, uh, we are eternallygrateful.
And from our heart to yours, wewish you Merry Christmas and
happy holidays,
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
Everybody, a Merry Christmas,David, and same to you, Andrew,
Merry Christmas, MerryChristmas, everybody.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you have a beautiful andspecial day, and if you don't
have a place to worship today,online, you can join us at 5:00
PM today.
If you're listening to this onChristmas Eve before 5:00 PM,
(12:52):
you can join us on the pinestreet church, YouTube channel
for a special Christmas Eveservice again, 5:00 PM today at
the pine street church, YouTubechannel.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Uh[inaudible] Oh, [inaudible][inaudible] uh,
(13:47):
[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible]
(14:36):
[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible]
(15:00):
[inaudible] uh,[inaudible] uh[inaudible][inaudible]
(15:51):
[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible] uh,
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