On this episode, Caleb Holland sits down with me to discuss the exciting journey of entrepreneurial venture, particularly in the realm of martial arts. We highlight the importance of tangible results and the need for a "trust but verify" mentality. We discuss personal expression in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and business, and how recognizing one's self-worth is paramount. Finally, we explore the future of Caleb's Iron Wolf Academy, discuss potential expansion, rebranding, and Caleb's personal ambition to compete in the ADCC trials.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome to.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I Am Me podcast.
I'm your host, liz Bachman, andon this podcast, I want to
celebrate you for being you.
I'm super excited to sit downwith my guests each week and
talk about their journey, theirexperiences and where they came
from.
So, without further ado, let'sdive into this week's episode.
Hey everybody, welcome back toI Am Me.
(00:21):
Today I am here with CalebHolland.
He is a really, really talentedmartial artist.
He also owns a martial artsacademy and he teaches, he
competes, and I just wanted totalk to him about kind of how he
turned his passion into acareer.
He is also my brother-in-law,so that's also very exciting
(00:44):
that I get to sit down and talkwith him today.
So how are you doing, caleb?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Doing real good.
Thanks for letting me come homeand talk.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you today.
So, kind of kicking it off,what are, I don't know, all your
credentials or belts that youhave when it comes to martial
arts?
So I know you have your blackbelt in Jujitsu and your black
belt in Pingsudo.
What other art forms do youhave or do you practice?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So in 2001, I met a gentleman by the name of Max
Andrews and he had started astyle called Nihokempo Jujitsu
Roo, so it's like a JapaneseJujitsu system, and through him
I started learning Judo,japanese Jujitsu, shodokan
karate and a sword art calledNihokai Kenjitsu, and it's one
(01:33):
of those things where I didn'tunderstand the certification
process of like traditionalJapanese martial arts, because
most of the ones I had done atthat time were Korean with
Tonsudo, because I had done thatsince 1996.
And so he invited me to trainwith him, and through the next
(01:56):
decade and a half decade, Itrained with him, learning the
Japanese style of things.
He took me past away in 2013.
And when he did, he left hisart to me, so I went from like a
black belt to a fifth degreeblack belt in one go, because
(02:16):
when you inherit a system, youget the highest ranking in it
that you do before you have totest according to him with his
style.
So we did that.
I'm someone who likes to havetheir credentials in order, and
so one of the things I'd like towork on over the next little
bit in my training is kind ofgoing back and filling in the
(02:39):
holes that I have from first tofifth degree, which I think
Brazilian Jujitsu is doingreally well.
There's a lot of older stufflike that that just I don't
teach it or anything, becauseit's kind of a watered down
version of what I think karateand Jujitsu and things used to
be, and so some of the stuff hetaught us I don't teach on
(03:02):
purpose.
I think Brazilian Jujitsu andthe way everyone uses it is
efficiently filling in the holes.
So we'd love to see a mergekind of happen between Japanese
Jujitsu and Brazilian Jujitsu alittle bit and the authenticity
and the high caliber of trainingand detail-edness in moves Be
(03:24):
able to switch from justBrazilian Jujitsu and grappling
to the traditional styles kindof go back and everybody look at
the original, where do thesecome from and how have we made
them better, since we have moretechnology and can study things
really well now.
So yeah, so I met him and gotcertified in Japanese Jujitsu
(03:46):
through him and Judo as well asa black belt, and then I teach
us the sword art that he taughtme as well.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So did he come up with that art form?
Or is he just one of the peoplewho was teaching Japanese?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
He came up with that art form, he trained under some
other guys who had beencertified through Japanese guys,
and when he was one of theirhigher ranks in their system
we'll say he was a sixth orseventh in their system he was
like hey, I want to add in a fewof these things.
And they were like yeah, cool,but you have to call it your own
(04:22):
thing.
And so he came up with his ownsystem of how to do things and
that's what I ended up learning.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
That's cool.
So would you say with martialarts in general.
That's kind of how it hasevolved, is people learn and
then kind of start thinking, oh,I want to add this in and, or I
want to change this or I thinkthis would work better.
And then it because we have somany different art forms and I
(04:49):
know a lot of them are rooted indifferent cultures, but I feel
like there's also a crossoverand they evolve.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, no, definitely.
You're actually seeing thathappen, like within Brazilian
Jiu Jitsu and the grapplingsystems.
Right now there's so, there'sBrazilian.
For the long time there wasBrazilian Jiu Jitsu and then,
now that it's been here inAmerica for 20 plus years,
you're seeing a lot of Americanssay, well, the rules are ABC.
(05:18):
We don't like those, we don'twant to do it that way, because
XYZ is more efficient, and sothey nicks whatever is the
traditional thing to do.
That's been done for years andthey're like well, why don't we
just go ahead and for one likego ahead and teach our white
belts heel hooks.
That's a, that's a.
One of the forefront examplesright now is like old school,
traditional Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Schools don't teach leg locksto their white, blue and purple
(05:41):
belts.
They don't even let them usethem.
Sometimes, and I feel like overthe past five years, with the
popularity ADCC has gotten and alot of the higher level
tournaments and things thatpeople have seen, they've been
exposed to leg locks and thatwas like the, the thing everyone
used.
We were one of the schools thatwas like hey, we're just going
to go ahead and learn this stuffand start using it.
(06:03):
So, you've got a couple schoolsthat are saying well, now we're
kind of evolving Brazilian JiuJitsu into this thing that looks
like a completely differentanimal, even though it looks
very.
It looks similar.
But the strategy the meta isthe term they use it's very
wrestling and leg locks basedand still has all the
traditional submissions andthings that you see in Brazilian
(06:23):
Jiu Jitsu.
But they're calling it AmericanJiu Jitsu because there's just
no formalities behind, like thekinds of moves you teach, as
long as someone understands thefundamentals.
Right, like it happens with allmartial arts.
They go through a phase of it'sthis way.
Somebody says, well, I think wecould do it better if we did
(06:43):
this or didn't do this, and sothey do their own thing and
change it a little bit, and thatjust naturally happens.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Well, I imagine martial arts is a hard thing.
It's a sport but it's probablya hard thing to evolve because
it's also rooted so deeply inpeople's cultures.
And then you also have that itis an art form, so you have the
aspect of it at the sport, butthen you have this rich cultural
art aspect of it that a lot oftimes is rooted in tradition and
(07:14):
when you reach a place where,hey, the tradition isn't
necessarily serving us in termsof learning it anymore, that's
got to be kind of hard for thatchange to happen, and maybe a
little slower than you would seeit, because I don't feel like
any other sports, maybe dancewould have strong roots in
culture.
(07:35):
I know they're not the samething, but dance has a rich
historical and culturalbackground so that would be the
only sport I could really thinkof that as it evolves.
But you don't really have thetraditions component of dance,
so I don't know if there's aquestion in there.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Like you, have a lot of different international
cultures that have their.
All cultures have their ownform of combat.
You know, the way I explain itto students is if you think of
fighting and combat and evengrappling with its own, but if
you think of fighting and combatas a tree, how to do that
efficiently, how to do it withthe best results, how to do it
(08:17):
one-on-one, army versus an Army,nation versus a nation,
whatever it is, combat is a treethat we're all looking at and
some people are.
You know, they're trying to situnder the tree and use it and
climb around it and explore it,and then other people are.
This is how I relate like somestyles, not to put any style
down, but there are styles thatare, I think, watered down a lot
(08:40):
.
I'm not gonna name any becausethere's plenty of people I
respect who train them and Idon't wanna put them down but
there's styles that I believeare really far away from the
tree, looking at it with a pairof binoculars and like, oh, I
think that's an oak tree.
Oh, no, it looks like a pinetree.
Oh, it's a tree.
We understand it's a tree.
Like a punch to the face is apunch to the face.
But then we could use boxing asan example.
There's boxing schools whereit's like people are doing that
(09:01):
and they're looking at it from along distance.
They think they know that it'sa tree.
And then there's people who areclimbing up in the tree and
they're like, no, this is a redoak tree and this red oak tree
produces, you know, whateverfruit it produces.
So you could look at martialarts as kind of individual trees
like that.
And then the it's kind of onthe teacher, it's on the culture
, it's also on the students todetermine how far away they are
(09:25):
from the tree and whetherthey're in the tree, kind of
climbing around it and exploringit.
I don't like martial artstheory.
I like hey, I'm 180 pounds.
This worked on a guy who's 300pounds.
I'm gonna teach it to everybody, you know.
Or.
I like you know, I fought a guyand I used this combination of
techniques and it led to aknockout.
(09:47):
Cool, let's drill thatcombination of techniques.
So there's experience therethat needs to happen.
But there's also the trainingof movements that, if you take
it too far into theoretically,this could happen.
Sometimes I think people drifttoo far away from the tree to do
that and it's.
I don't like teaching that way,and I know a lot of people who
(10:10):
based their whole curriculum onthat and I don't think that's
right.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You have people who are not necessarily showing up
to even compete.
They're just wanting one to dothis.
As you know, exercise community, they enjoy it.
But also you want to walk awaywith some self defense or
something useful that you canuse out in the real world, not
(10:33):
letting all the perfect piecesfall in a row.
You know that's not gonna serveyou in any type of real life
threatening situation.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean there's not a lot of other places you
can go and like I mean I don'tknow about soccer, but it's it.
Or basketball, even football.
Like you can't learn that sportand then turn it right into a
marketable skill after youbecome proficient at it.
You know you either keepplaying football or you coach
football, or you don't, andthat's it.
And that percentage wise tendsto lead to people who did
(11:06):
football and they quit, and thenthey look back in the glory
days oh, when I did football, Idid blah, blah, blah, and I
don't think a martial artistever quits being a martial
artist unless they make thatchoice.
So people who say, well, when Iwas 25, I could do blah, blah,
blah, they could still do thatthing that they're saying they
could continue training if theycontinue training.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So that's a great way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, and there's different people who have
different goals with it, likeyou were saying, and it's, I
think it depends on the you knowthe person, and whether they
want to compete or they want tojust get in shape, but they all
come away with that marketableskill of being able to, if
taught right, adequately defendthemselves and then teach others
, if they want to, how to dothat, or they can just keep it
(11:51):
to themselves and be that guythat you know, a girl that
everybody kind of relies on forprotection somewhat, and just
gain confidence and giveconfidence to others, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So you, primarily, if you compete, you do jiu-jitsu.
Now right, you don't do thingsto do.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, I'm getting ready to test in October for my
next level in Tongsidow andthere are Nick and my coach is
his name's Dave.
He's making us actually do amaster's tournament, which it'll
be the first time I've done aTongsidow competition to like
actually try to win since 2004.
(12:32):
Oh, wow.
That was the last competition Idid.
I won the international theassociation we were with at the
time.
Back then I was a third degree.
I won the national championshipin that organization.
Back then it was like a you gocompeting for events, you
accumulate points through thoseevents, they add them all
(12:53):
together whoever has the mostwins, type of thing.
So yeah, that was my last likeserious Tongsidow tournament
where I was doing my forms andsparring and stuff every day,
all day, Like I do jiu-jitsu now.
And so, yeah, jiu-jitsu kind offilled that void and it's.
I love it.
I love jiu-jitsu.
It's a healthy, mentally andphysically healthy martial art.
(13:18):
It's really, really good.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, there's so many things around jiu-jitsu that
well, brazilian jiu-jitsu Like Iwas looking up, I was getting
into breath work and I think Itold you this, and the first
thing that came up in regards tobreath work was breath work in
relation to BJJ, like in orderto and it was just a YouTube
(13:45):
video, but it was the firstthing that came up about it.
And then the guy was justtalking about how BJJ and breath
work, how they work so welltogether and how they show
importance.
But it's a great if you'retrying to get into breath work.
It's a great sport to get into,to also learn how to use breath
work, and so I thought that wasinteresting, that that was one
(14:07):
of the first things that came up.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, it's because it involves so many this is
something that Jance was tellingme because it involves so many
different kinds of energysystems.
If you don't learn the aspectof breathing, if you don't get
that down in the first littlebit, then you're just always
tired during your rounds, and sothat's why it is so important
to learn how to breathe.
But it also it's the same inrelating to like how to calm
(14:30):
yourself down when a stressfulsituation is going on and how to
breathe through that.
It's the same, Like it'sidentical as far as I know.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So martial artists, you see so in terms of becoming
a professional in this sport,can people really make a living
off of it as a professional?
Because you have UFC fightersor boxers where there is a level
where you're starting to makemoney off?
(15:01):
of your competition, whereaswith not just Brazilian
jiu-jitsu, I would say martialarts in general, just different
forms in terms of Tengsudo, judo, anyone that I can like think
of off the top of my head, Idon't feel like you see people
necessarily making a living fromjust being, you know, the
(15:25):
winner of their tournament,right?
So how do they, how do peoplelike?
So you you created your ownbusiness and you teach it, and
then you also still compete andyour students compete and stuff
like that.
So is there, I guess, a levelof success that one could
achieve as a professional incompetition, or they would be
(15:47):
able to support themselves, oris there always something else
you kind of have to do tosupplement that?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I think it's a little bit of both, or a lot of
sessions, actually a lot of both, the number one way, in
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at least,because that's my like field, I
don't, I don't know about likeprofessional karate, like karate
competitions where they go doforms for the Olympics.
Now, I can't.
I can't speak to that because Idon't know.
(16:12):
As far as like sponsorships andstuff, I'm sure they get plenty
of sponsorships because karateand taekwondo, muay Thai, boxing
and judo are all Olympic sports.
So if somebody's good and theycan get enough sponsorships,
then yeah, they can.
They can live off that.
They can live off competition.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is nowherenear that.
(16:34):
Right now the highest paidprofessional competitor is
Gordon Ryan and he just competes.
He trains at an academy thatsomebody else owns and runs, but
he competes and makes moneythrough competition.
But there's not a lot ofcompetitions that pay enough to
(16:55):
like make it like they're notgetting paid millions of dollars
like a boxer right.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But there's enough money in teaching it that most
what happens with most Jiu-Jitsuguys is they either teach on a
online digital platform like BJJFanatics or something and that
supplements or makes a lot ofthe money for them.
And the greater level ofcompetition that they go to and
(17:23):
compete in, the more notorietyand the more popularity they
gain.
So they like he's known as thenumber one.
He's like for us in Jiu-Jitsu.
A lot of people kind of look athim as the Michael Jordan of
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
He's the one who's made it getinto the UFC Fight Pass for ADCC
, for Nogi.
He's the one who's kind of beenthe forerunner for making
(17:47):
competition Brazilian Jiu-Jitsubecome a livelihood for some
people.
But even if you think aboutlike he doesn't have when he
does matches, he doesn't makefor one match.
He doesn't make more than Idon't know.
Maybe one match is like I don'tknow 40,000, 50,000 dollars.
(18:09):
It's not the kind of pay you seein the UFC now and that you see
in boxing especially Boxingboxers are paid like high level
boxers are paid very, very wellfor their competition without
having to go teach.
So what most people do is theydo what I've done where they
open a school, they gain enoughstudents to make a living from
it, and then that's their alsotheir way to keep training so
(18:32):
that one day they can compete ata high level and have those
other subsidiary areas of income.
If that's the goal, what I'malso finding, as someone who
owns a school and cares a lotabout their students, doing both
, is very, very hard, and onewill lack if the other one
doesn't.
So, like when I'm reallyfocused on competition and I'm
(18:55):
training hard and getting readyto compete in a match or
something, the business notfalls behind, but has a.
You know, there's no balancethere.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You only have so much energy and attention that you
can commit in a 24 hour day.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Right, exactly, so if there's a focus on one, then
the other one's going to fallbehind a little bit, like our
business is doing really goodright now.
Competition wise.
I would love to step into acompetition right now, but I
physically would make it throughlike one or two matches where I
might have.
I could have five or tenmatches in a day, maybe more,
and would need to be in shapefor that.
(19:30):
I mean, I say that I probablydo okay and I would still do it,
but it's just not where I thestandard I hold for myself.
I don't feel like I'm preparedenough to do a competition.
I've got plenty of otherfriends who'd be like oh, you're
good enough, you could just goin and compete.
But I'm for where I want to bebefore I compete.
In the preparation I want toput myself through.
(19:50):
I just not there because we'vebeen focusing on the business.
But that's so that there can bea better balance between family
business competition and nothaving one waxer weighing when
the others are more important.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think also it's important to recognize that
there are ways for you to pursueyour passion that don't because
you could have easily said,gone and got a different job,
didn't create your own companyand maybe use that job to try
and support paying you to go andcompete if that's what you want
(20:31):
to do.
But I think there's somethingto be said for the fact that you
loved this sport.
You know both Tangsudom, bjj,brazilian Jujutsu those are kind
of your two primary and youloved it to a point that you
created a business to keep youaround your passion and I mean
(20:52):
and then I also the communitythat you built, which kind of is
perfect.
In regards to my next question,how did creating your business
come around, like, come aboutfor you?
When did you make that decision?
Hey, I want to branch out on myown and create my own community
.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
No, I've always wanted to do martial arts.
My goal would be, by the timeI'm in my 40s or 50s, to be
known as one of the best martialartists or most well rounded
martial artists in the world,just because of what all I have
been exposed to and done.
And the biggest thing about allmartial artists if they keep
(21:32):
the attitude of being a studentat all times and they can go
anywhere they want to go Likethat's I think that's one key,
key thing that martial artsteaches that a lot of other
things don't is that you'realways a student.
Like I might be the top guy inthe room, there's always going
to be another guy.
I can learn something from whowhether it's one of my students
or it's a visitor, or it's megoing to another school I'll
(21:54):
always be able to learn adifferent way to do something
that I've always done a certainway, and I think if you have
that mindset in all things,including opening a business or
running, you know doingsomething that you're passionate
about.
I think that I think thatthat's a huge mindset to have.
We so we in July of 2014.
(22:15):
We started, or I startedCaleb's martial arts and fitness
LLC, and then we morphed it todoing business as Iron Wolf
Academy.
The Iron Wolf Academy was aname that the people who owned
the Academy before I did one ofthe partners one of the business
(22:36):
partners to help me come upwith it.
They actually bought the rightsto it and all that, and then I
bought the business from them,created my own LLC and legally
bought the rights to use thatname is for my lifetime.
So I was in college, I was asenior and was doing horrible at
college and so technically I'ma college dropout, which I'm
(22:59):
okay with.
I might go back and finishsometime.
I might not.
I don't know.
I really like what I do.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well, you're, yeah, you're very successful.
I would consider you verysuccessful, yeah, and I feel
like your success just grows,which is really exciting to
watch and to see.
Just from the time that I'veknown you like moving to a
bigger studio.
Your classes are much largerthan they were in the beginning,
like just in the word.
(23:26):
How long have I known you nowSince?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
2017.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But yeah, it's just been really exciting Like you've
grown so much and I wouldconsider you incredibly
successful where you are evennow.
But I think you'll just growmore and more.
So I mean, I, yeah, I, I acollege dropout.
I'm just kind of like, yeah,there's people who are college
dropouts, people who are highschool dropouts.
I think it just depends on yourvision, your goals and how much
(23:54):
work you're putting into it.
Those titles don't really rightyou know necessarily guarantee
you anything.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Right.
Well, I say I mean I say itjokingly because it's I mean,
college for some people is verymuch needed for their field, and
other people, like I don't wanta doctor that hasn't gone to
college to do work on me, that's, but yeah, that's for sure.
But somebody who has gone toJiu Jitsu college, you know they
, they can be successful in whatthey do without a degree, as
(24:24):
long as they maybe, you know,learn from someone who's who's
got a business that's runningwell.
And that's the great thingabout Christian is he has
results, both this this longlist of of actual Jiu Jitsu
accomplishments that are huge,but he also has this long list
of business accomplishments thatare huge as well.
(24:44):
And like, at one time I thinkhe had an academy that was
10,000 square feet, and this isall pre COVID.
I want to say he was 500 plusstudents I don't know exactly
what number, but he had at hisacademy training throughout the
week, 500 people, throughout themonth, 500 people, and that's a
that's a lot of people to beable to communicate with, manage
(25:06):
, teach, all that kind of stuffthrough all the different
programs that they had, andthat's it's just.
To be able to be under somebodylike that is a huge, huge honor
.
But I think anybody who has, whothey're passionate about
something, they've definitelygot to find the the holes that
(25:26):
they have and fill them in sothey gain experience.
And they, if they really wantto be successful with something,
they're passionate.
Because you can.
You can be passionate aboutsomething and keep learning it
and training it and doing it,whatever, and not grow it as a
business.
But if you definitely want touse it as a business, you want
to take the time to learn to doit smart, so that people are
like, oh yeah, that thatperson's legit or that person
(25:48):
runs a successful business orwhatever it is Versus.
Oh, they're just reallypassionate about it and they
just, you know, they do it allthe time because they're
obsessed.
Well, yeah, yeah, but howsuccessful are they?
You know they might be obsessedand that's great, but what have
they done with it?
You know what legacy are theygoing to leave behind?
What are they going to?
What are they doing right now?
How are they?
How are they growing?
Things like that.
That's what I look for now.
(26:09):
Instead of kind of that trust,but verify, instead of just
trusting what someone says aboutsomething, I always try to go
to what?
Okay, what's their, what'stheir rap sheet?
What are they?
What have they done?
Do they have facts behind themthat back up what they're saying
?
They're saying to do?
You know, right, and peoplelook for that authenticity of
someone practicing what theypreach.
You know, people look for thatand they respect it and I think,
(26:34):
I think that's that's somethingthat the the martial arts
community and fitness communityin general.
But because we, we technicallyfall under, like the fitness
business, the fitness community,I would say, like you want to,
you don't need to follow someonejust because they have a six
pack or a really cool Instagramprofile.
(26:55):
You know, you want to see theirresults yeah, you get into that
trouble too.
Yeah.
And then on the flip side ofthat point, you want to.
You don't want to followsomeone who has a lot of head
knowledge but doesn't put itinto practice.
You know, there's, there's,there's both those sides of the
coins of well, this guy's rippedjacked, he must be doing
something right.
We could just be working outevery so often and be roiding up
and not eating anything.
(27:15):
You know and that's notexperienced.
But then you have the otherside of the person who might,
they might, be a great trainer,they might be a good, and this
happens in martial arts all thetime.
There might be a great teacherand a great coach, but they are
out of shape.
They are not able to perform,not able to.
That's why I want to keepcompeting, even into my like old
age.
(27:35):
Eventually is I, don't I?
don't want to expect my studentsto do something I still can't,
and that's, that's not astandard for anybody else.
That's my own standard.
But like if I tell a student,hey, do a 360 hook kick?
Well, first question they'regoing to ask me is, okay, show
me.
And that I want to be able toshow them that you know.
(27:55):
And if, if somebody doesn't askme that, then I'll be like, hey
, do you want to see it?
You know, and so I have a lotof respect for people who they.
They have that side of the coin, down of both the head
knowledge of they've educatedthemselves, they've done the
homework on things, but theyalso put the physical work in to
(28:16):
show the results of whatthey've, that they practice,
what they preach, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So and I love what you said too, because all this
stuff applies to anything reallyoutside.
It doesn't have to just bemartial arts, it's anyone,
anyone starting a business.
And I was going to ask you oneof my questions what would your
advice be to anyone wanting tostart their own business or
pursue their passions to a pointof turning it into a career?
(28:41):
But I think everything you justsaid answered it.
You know, I really think thatthat answered that question.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I was just going to say.
The only thing to add to thatis this is something I do, I
know I do and I have to work onstill is trusting again,
trusting without verifying.
I'm a very.
If somebody tells me to do ABCand I don't know them very well,
I've gotten better at sayingOkay, I need to.
I need to look more into thatbefore I make a decision on it.
(29:12):
Versus like well, actually,before meeting your sister, I
would have just done if someonehad a position of authority over
me, I would have just donewhatever they said, and I think
my attitude about that hasshifted.
So if somebody wants to takesomething they're passionate
about, this is so they don't getburned out, and so they don't
get burned by someone they would, no matter what.
(29:33):
Someone who has a high caliber,you know a rap list or is just
getting started, whatever itmight be always, always, always,
trust, but verify, say, hey, Iappreciate what you told me, I'm
gonna look more into that, youknow, and then use it to the
best of their ability for whatthey need it for.
And if it's not, if it'sseriously not something they
should do, then they need to beable to say, no, I'm not gonna
(29:54):
do that, you know.
I think that's something we'vegotten better at, and it's
definitely been.
One of the things that's helpedour business grow is cutting out
some of the things that wedon't need.
That was just too much.
So sometimes less is more, youknow, and so it's been.
That's one of the things Ithink to add on to that with
(30:16):
what I said previously is makesure, no matter who tells you to
do something, like how to runyour business or anything.
Always trust, but verify andthen come back to is this really
what I wanna do and how I wannado it, and if it's not, then
just don't do it.
Do it the way you want to, youknow.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Right, and I think it's so interesting to that
sometimes.
Well, first let me say mysister, jordan, who Kayla was
mentioning his wife, who hementioned a second ago she's got
a great bullshit detector andit's something that I that did
not.
I don't know where that camefrom for Joe, but it did not get
(30:51):
poured into my gene cup orwhatever.
I don't know if it was throughher life experience or, but I'm
glad that that's rubbed off onyou because I really think it is
such a great thing.
Jordan is just so good aboutyou know this doesn't work for
me.
so why am I gonna do that?
Why would I do that, whereas Iget so concerned with making
(31:14):
sure the other person is happy?
And so I'm grateful that that'srubbed off for you, because I
definitely think and she does itwith a level of grace and class
that it's not that she doesn'tcare about people, but it's that
she also really recognizes herown values and self-worth and
isn't gonna sacrifice those tomake somebody else happy.
(31:34):
And so, which is something I'mworking on, but I'm glad to hear
that.
That sounds like that's rubbedoff on you through dating her
and now being married to her,because I feel like it's the
greatest skill.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I think most of the things, most of the big changes
we made in the business.
She told me I should make thosechanges in the business and
then a coach would tell me, hey,you should make these changes.
And I'd tell her, hey,christian said we should do this
, and she's like I told youshe'd do that three months ago
or I told you she'd do that amonth ago.
I was like, yeah, yeah, and Ishould have listened and I
didn't.
I have to apologize about itbecause she is forward thinking
(32:10):
and, like you said, has a BSdetector that is very high level
BS detector.
Yes, very good, but you're rightshe does it with grace, and she
does it with kindness and orshe does it with firmness that a
lot of the world needs of justsaying I'm doing that, sorry,
(32:31):
nope, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah she's great at.
Yeah, it's something I'm lowkey envious of that.
I'm trying, I try to watch herand she's like why don't you
just not do that, like you don'twant to do that, or just send
the text.
And I also, you know, normallyaround dating or something I'll
like you know you were in thecar that one time where I was
(32:53):
trying to like make this supernice text and she was like just
tell them you don't want to seethem again.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
But anyway.
But what I was going to say isin regards to everything you
were talking about with businessis if somebody gives you advice
and it did work for them, butyou look at it and you're like,
no, I don't want to do that,that's the other thing.
Is one the trust and verify.
Verify what they've said,verify that they can back up
(33:21):
what they're telling you to do,but also recognize that what
works for them might not workfor you, and that's okay.
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I mean that goes into martial arts again, like
there's there's moves that Idon't do, that my coach does
beautifully, because I justdon't do them.
And in some moves he does andI'm like, wow, I think I could
actually take that and do itbetter than you, you know, and
he's like go for it.
You know, I think that's one ofthe greatest things about
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is it canbecome a very personal,
(33:48):
personable martial art where youdon't you don't have to do
everything.
My job as a coach is to teacheverything and then be honest
with my students and say, hey, I, and when I'm rolling with you
guys, I'm not going to do itthis way, but this is a way that
I think would work.
And if you like it cool, use it.
If you don't like it cool,don't use it.
And just to be authentic andsay it that way, which a lot, of
(34:12):
, a lot of coaches in martialarts, all martial arts, don't do
that they're like this is afront kick.
You always do the front kickthis way, you always do the
punch this way, blah, blah, blah.
It's like, yeah, yeah, youshould, because there are
principles there that you knoweveryone needs to follow.
But even in in a punch, whereasa lot of uniformity and a lot
of people doing it the same way,every person's body's built
(34:32):
different, so even down to likerange and timing, it could be
millimeters or centimeters off.
My punch compared to your punch, my punch compared to Jordan's,
my punch compared to MuhammadAli's or somebody who's a lot
taller or a lot shorter, theirpunch, the range even in punches
, can be personal.
In the timing and how theyexecute it can be personal.
(34:56):
And that's I think I'm findingout now is a great thing about
martial arts.
And it leads back to thebeginning of our conversation of
why there are so many differentkinds of styles.
Why there are so many different.
It's just because people well,the greatest, I think the
greatest way is explained ismartial arts is military or
combative show of expression,right, so we don't all paint the
(35:16):
same painting when we do art.
Some people have abstract artwhich I don't understand.
Some people might look atBrazilian Jiu Jitsu that way and
be like, wow, that's reallyweird especially some of the
no-gi stuff we do.
And then some people are like oh, it's boxing, it's very.
You know, there's six punches,boom, and it's just.
I understand these six punchesand I make them work from
everywhere.
And again it gets into thatwith business as well.
(35:40):
Just, you know, you can really,in the world we live in, we can
do what we want, how we want,and then take advice from other
people when it did work, if itdidn't work, cool, and kind of
do our own thing and be creatorsof something.
And I think the level ofunderstanding of that is what
makes martial arts so beautifulas a sport hobby.
(36:01):
Whatever you wanna consider it,you know.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, I really like that.
I also like how passionate.
I know you're passionate aboutit, but it's just fun to hear
people when they get excitedabout you know what they're
talking about.
Okay, kind of.
The last question I have foryou, just wrapping up the
interview, is where do you seeIron Wolf Academy in the next
five years?
What's kind of your big thingthat you wanna do in terms of
(36:25):
growth or your next big goal forthe Academy?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
We just rebranded our logo, so that was one big step.
Jordan did a lot of awesomework on that.
She just took us from 1990smartial arts look to a more
modern look, which I was reallyexcited about and really
appreciated that.
She pushed us to do that, andit's really neat having like a
(36:49):
teammate to do these things with, because for so long I've done
it by myself and never wouldhave done that, because I like
my old logo and I'm selfish.
And so she was like, no, weshould do this.
And I'm, I think, even moreselfish about this new one
because I'm like well, I don'tever wanna change it again.
It looks so good, you know, yeah, but so in five years the what
was first step we went throughthe rebranding.
(37:10):
The next step is gonna beexpansion of our gym.
I don't know what that lookslike.
It could be a few things.
It could be merging with Jantsand being in the same building
as him.
It could be having our ownstandalone building in its own
area, buying our own property,renting a spot out of there to
(37:30):
other people while we can growand expand and eventually just
kick people out and take overthe whole building.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I say kick out gently , you know.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, help them grow their business.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, help them grow their business and when they get
too big for our spot, kick themout.
We'll just move into it, youknow, but own the building.
There you go.
That's kind of that's.
I like that because it gives mecontrol of the business a lot
more than renting from someoneelse.
So that's more where I'mleaning, and I like it.
It also allows us to changethings when we want and not have
to ask permission.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Gotcha yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
So that's kind of the first.
Next big step is expansion andthat somewhere in there get back
into competition myself andgain a world title.
I've got some guys.
Well, jance is gonna go competeat the ADCC trials and first
time any of us have been, soit'll be like kind of the step
(38:27):
in to see what that atmosphereis like.
A lot of my friends have gone,so next year I'm planning to go
do that the ADCC trials and justget in there.
If we get it if we meddle, thenwe might go to the trials, you
know, or we might go to ADCCCool, If not cool.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Just kind of step back into that.
What is ADCC?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So sorry.
Adcc is the Abu Dhabi CombatClub.
It is the Olympics of grappling.
It's like the tournament oftournaments that everyone.
You can't get it.
You can't register and go toADCC.
Two years prior to the actualADCC competition.
They do trials in Europe, asia,south America and they do two
of them in the US, one on theEast Coast and one on the West
(39:10):
Coast.
If you meddle at the trials andI think it's, it may be just
the gold medalists.
I can't remember.
I need to look this up and makesure I have it down.
But I know if you win at trialsyou get invited to go to ADCC
and compete and that's so.
It's like you fight all theguys who want to get to the top
(39:33):
and then they take the top andthey just take the foam off and
bring it into the actual ADCCevent and that's where all the
best guys compete.
And then they have like a bunchof superfights in certain
weight classes and then theyhave a big superfight of the
absolutes.
So right now Gordon Ryan's theguy who won last year or two
years ago and he how often is it?
(39:57):
Andre Gouvalle.
It's every two years, so youget it's where like so the IBJJF
, which is the InternationalBrazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation,
their tournaments.
If we go to the worldchampionships this year, next
year I would have to competeagain to keep my world title
right.
Adcc you compete, you get itfor two years, you get paid, you
(40:17):
get a lot of sponsorships.
It's just a much moreprestigious tournament to
compete in and everyone all thegood grapplers want to go
compete at it.
So everyone, right nowespecially, is working really
hard to go to trials and compete, and it's just one we're new to
.
We haven't ever been.
We should have, we should haveprobably gone in the past, but I
(40:39):
I'll probably.
I want to go next year.
We've got a lot of people fromGeorgia that are friends of mine
in other schools.
That's actually one of the coolthings about tournaments
outside of your own state thatare like world level tournaments
A lot of the people from thesame state.
If you're friends, they kind ofhang out together at the
tournaments.
My first world championshipNogi tournament that I went to
(41:02):
was the 2018 Nogi Pan's I thinkNogi Pan Ams and it's where
Gordon Ryan got like slappedaround a bunch by a guy named
Cyborg.
I was there.
It was awesome.
It was one of the coolestevents I've ever been to.
But everybody from Georgia kindof all hangs out together and
it's like your, your own state'steam kind of.
(41:24):
I was bummed because I didn'thave an actual team that I went
with, I just went by myself.
So I would encourage anyone inBrazil and Jiu Jitsu if you ever
want to go compete at a bigtournament like that, have a
team to go with.
Don't go lone wolf.
It's not fun.
It is fun.
It is fun.
It's just from the competitionstandpoint.
It's.
It can be hard.
(41:44):
So go with the team, go withsome friends and you're going to
hear a lot of Brazilian JiuJitsu guys talk about how their
team did this, their team didthat.
Man, we all do Brazilian JiuJitsu.
It's one of the.
It's one of the most well, forsome schools it's one of the
most welcoming communities thatthere is.
(42:04):
As far as I've experienced withmost schools the schools that
are toxic in that area you don'treally hang around anyways and
they don't normally allow you tohang out with them, so it's not
really that big a deal but, the, the schools that like like me,
and the guys from Megalodonhang out at tournaments, the
guys from X3, the guys from someof the guys from SBG we'll all
(42:27):
hang around and chat and drilltogether If we need to at big
tournaments like that, justbecause we know each other.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
So yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
That's the one of the big events we want to go to is
ADCC.
So somewhere in the next fiveyears have a an ADCC competition
under my belt.
Whether it's a medal there ornot, just go, you know, multiple
years.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And then compete at Masters Worlds, the, the world's
championships, pan Am's, a lotof the big tournaments.
Try to get into them again.
Instead of the local ones, dothe local ones as like a, like a
warmup kind of Um and then mystudents want to go do the local
ones, cause they don't have tofly to California or Las Vegas
or something.
So anybody who's like, hey, Iwant to do the one in Swanee and
(43:10):
Swanee, Georgia, Um called Newbreed, at the Swanee Sports
Academy.
If they're like, hey, I want togo do that.
I try to go coach them, Um, andthey they usually gain a lot of
great experience from that,Like a it's it's.
The tournaments are funnybecause you learn 100% what not
to do or what to do better, andso the next week after a
tournament they come in andtrain.
They already have beenprocessing how they messed up or
(43:33):
how well they did in their mind, and they are already much more
of a challenge the week after atournament, which is that's
always fun too.
So so yeah, that's kind of fiveyear goals, Um, with the
academy, Um.
So yeah, that's kind of that's,that's forward thinking, kind
of what we're looking at.
There's going to be a lot offun stuff in there as well, you
(43:53):
know, with family and differentthings too.
So we'll see, see what all,what all happens in five years.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Well, thank you so much, Caleb.
I had such a good time talkingto you today.
Um, I will mention Jance.
Uh, me and Caleb talked abouthim a few times.
He is our trainer, um, and thenhe also takes Jiu-Jitsu from
Caleb.
See if I can get him on here totalk to him on IME also because
he's got he's a business owneras well.
(44:20):
Really cool guy, um.
Anyway, yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you everyone forlistening.
I hope some people uh tooksomething away from this.
They enjoyed it.
They learned something.
Maybe they didn't know.
If you can rate and review thispodcast, I would really
appreciate.
It Helps me keep doing what Iam doing.
And thank you again, caleb.
That's a lot to sit down andtalk to you and everybody else.
I will see you in the next one.
Welcome to.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I Am Me podcast.
I'm your host, liz Bachman, andon this podcast, I want to
celebrate you for being you.
I'm super excited to sit downwith my guests each week and
talk about their journey, theirexperiences and where they came
from.
So, without further ado, let'sdive into this week's episode.
Hey everybody, welcome back toI Am Me.
(00:21):
Today I am here with CalebHolland.
He is a really, really talentedmartial artist.
He also owns a martial artsacademy and he teaches, he
competes, and I just wanted totalk to him about kind of how he
turned his passion into acareer.
He is also my brother-in-law,so that's also very exciting
(00:44):
that I get to sit down and talkwith him today.
So how are you doing, caleb?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Doing real good.
Thanks for letting me come homeand talk.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you today.
So, kind of kicking it off,what are, I don't know, all your
credentials or belts that youhave when it comes to martial
arts?
So I know you have your blackbelt in Jujitsu and your black
belt in Pingsudo.
What other art forms do youhave or do you practice?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So in 2001, I met a gentleman by the name of Max
Andrews and he had started astyle called Nihokempo Jujitsu
Roo, so it's like a JapaneseJujitsu system, and through him
I started learning Judo,japanese Jujitsu, shodokan
karate and a sword art calledNihokai Kenjitsu, and it's one
(01:33):
of those things where I didn'tunderstand the certification
process of like traditionalJapanese martial arts, because
most of the ones I had done atthat time were Korean with
Tonsudo, because I had done thatsince 1996.
And so he invited me to trainwith him, and through the next
(01:56):
decade and a half decade, Itrained with him, learning the
Japanese style of things.
He took me past away in 2013.
And when he did, he left hisart to me, so I went from like a
black belt to a fifth degreeblack belt in one go, because
(02:16):
when you inherit a system, youget the highest ranking in it
that you do before you have totest according to him with his
style.
So we did that.
I'm someone who likes to havetheir credentials in order, and
so one of the things I'd like towork on over the next little
bit in my training is kind ofgoing back and filling in the
(02:39):
holes that I have from first tofifth degree, which I think
Brazilian Jujitsu is doingreally well.
There's a lot of older stufflike that that just I don't
teach it or anything, becauseit's kind of a watered down
version of what I think karateand Jujitsu and things used to
be, and so some of the stuff hetaught us I don't teach on
(03:02):
purpose.
I think Brazilian Jujitsu andthe way everyone uses it is
efficiently filling in the holes.
So we'd love to see a mergekind of happen between Japanese
Jujitsu and Brazilian Jujitsu alittle bit and the authenticity
and the high caliber of trainingand detail-edness in moves Be
(03:24):
able to switch from justBrazilian Jujitsu and grappling
to the traditional styles kindof go back and everybody look at
the original, where do thesecome from and how have we made
them better, since we have moretechnology and can study things
really well now.
So yeah, so I met him and gotcertified in Japanese Jujitsu
(03:46):
through him and Judo as well asa black belt, and then I teach
us the sword art that he taughtme as well.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So did he come up with that art form?
Or is he just one of the peoplewho was teaching Japanese?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
He came up with that art form, he trained under some
other guys who had beencertified through Japanese guys,
and when he was one of theirhigher ranks in their system
we'll say he was a sixth orseventh in their system he was
like hey, I want to add in a fewof these things.
And they were like yeah, cool,but you have to call it your own
(04:22):
thing.
And so he came up with his ownsystem of how to do things and
that's what I ended up learning.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
That's cool.
So would you say with martialarts in general.
That's kind of how it hasevolved, is people learn and
then kind of start thinking, oh,I want to add this in and, or I
want to change this or I thinkthis would work better.
And then it because we have somany different art forms and I
(04:49):
know a lot of them are rooted indifferent cultures, but I feel
like there's also a crossoverand they evolve.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, no, definitely.
You're actually seeing thathappen, like within Brazilian
Jiu Jitsu and the grapplingsystems.
Right now there's so, there'sBrazilian.
For the long time there wasBrazilian Jiu Jitsu and then,
now that it's been here inAmerica for 20 plus years,
you're seeing a lot of Americanssay, well, the rules are ABC.
(05:18):
We don't like those, we don'twant to do it that way, because
XYZ is more efficient, and sothey nicks whatever is the
traditional thing to do.
That's been done for years andthey're like well, why don't we
just go ahead and for one likego ahead and teach our white
belts heel hooks.
That's a, that's a.
One of the forefront examplesright now is like old school,
traditional Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Schools don't teach leg locksto their white, blue and purple
(05:41):
belts.
They don't even let them usethem.
Sometimes, and I feel like overthe past five years, with the
popularity ADCC has gotten and alot of the higher level
tournaments and things thatpeople have seen, they've been
exposed to leg locks and thatwas like the, the thing everyone
used.
We were one of the schools thatwas like hey, we're just going
to go ahead and learn this stuffand start using it.
(06:03):
So, you've got a couple schoolsthat are saying well, now we're
kind of evolving Brazilian JiuJitsu into this thing that looks
like a completely differentanimal, even though it looks
very.
It looks similar.
But the strategy the meta isthe term they use it's very
wrestling and leg locks basedand still has all the
traditional submissions andthings that you see in Brazilian
(06:23):
Jiu Jitsu.
But they're calling it AmericanJiu Jitsu because there's just
no formalities behind, like thekinds of moves you teach, as
long as someone understands thefundamentals.
Right, like it happens with allmartial arts.
They go through a phase of it'sthis way.
Somebody says, well, I think wecould do it better if we did
(06:43):
this or didn't do this, and sothey do their own thing and
change it a little bit, and thatjust naturally happens.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Well, I imagine martial arts is a hard thing.
It's a sport but it's probablya hard thing to evolve because
it's also rooted so deeply inpeople's cultures.
And then you also have that itis an art form, so you have the
aspect of it at the sport, butthen you have this rich cultural
art aspect of it that a lot oftimes is rooted in tradition and
(07:14):
when you reach a place where,hey, the tradition isn't
necessarily serving us in termsof learning it anymore, that's
got to be kind of hard for thatchange to happen, and maybe a
little slower than you would seeit, because I don't feel like
any other sports, maybe dancewould have strong roots in
culture.
(07:35):
I know they're not the samething, but dance has a rich
historical and culturalbackground so that would be the
only sport I could really thinkof that as it evolves.
But you don't really have thetraditions component of dance,
so I don't know if there's aquestion in there.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Like you, have a lot of different international
cultures that have their.
All cultures have their ownform of combat.
You know, the way I explain itto students is if you think of
fighting and combat and evengrappling with its own, but if
you think of fighting and combatas a tree, how to do that
efficiently, how to do it withthe best results, how to do it
(08:17):
one-on-one, army versus an Army,nation versus a nation,
whatever it is, combat is a treethat we're all looking at and
some people are.
You know, they're trying to situnder the tree and use it and
climb around it and explore it,and then other people are.
This is how I relate like somestyles, not to put any style
down, but there are styles thatare, I think, watered down a lot
(08:40):
.
I'm not gonna name any becausethere's plenty of people I
respect who train them and Idon't wanna put them down but
there's styles that I believeare really far away from the
tree, looking at it with a pairof binoculars and like, oh, I
think that's an oak tree.
Oh, no, it looks like a pinetree.
Oh, it's a tree.
We understand it's a tree.
Like a punch to the face is apunch to the face.
But then we could use boxing asan example.
There's boxing schools whereit's like people are doing that
(09:01):
and they're looking at it from along distance.
They think they know that it'sa tree.
And then there's people who areclimbing up in the tree and
they're like, no, this is a redoak tree and this red oak tree
produces, you know, whateverfruit it produces.
So you could look at martialarts as kind of individual trees
like that.
And then the it's kind of onthe teacher, it's on the culture
, it's also on the students todetermine how far away they are
(09:25):
from the tree and whetherthey're in the tree, kind of
climbing around it and exploringit.
I don't like martial artstheory.
I like hey, I'm 180 pounds.
This worked on a guy who's 300pounds.
I'm gonna teach it to everybody, you know.
Or.
I like you know, I fought a guyand I used this combination of
techniques and it led to aknockout.
(09:47):
Cool, let's drill thatcombination of techniques.
So there's experience therethat needs to happen.
But there's also the trainingof movements that, if you take
it too far into theoretically,this could happen.
Sometimes I think people drifttoo far away from the tree to do
that and it's.
I don't like teaching that way,and I know a lot of people who
(10:10):
based their whole curriculum onthat and I don't think that's
right.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You have people who are not necessarily showing up
to even compete.
They're just wanting one to dothis.
As you know, exercise community, they enjoy it.
But also you want to walk awaywith some self defense or
something useful that you canuse out in the real world, not
(10:33):
letting all the perfect piecesfall in a row.
You know that's not gonna serveyou in any type of real life
threatening situation.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean there's not a lot of other places you
can go and like I mean I don'tknow about soccer, but it's it.
Or basketball, even football.
Like you can't learn that sportand then turn it right into a
marketable skill after youbecome proficient at it.
You know you either keepplaying football or you coach
football, or you don't, andthat's it.
And that percentage wise tendsto lead to people who did
(11:06):
football and they quit, and thenthey look back in the glory
days oh, when I did football, Idid blah, blah, blah, and I
don't think a martial artistever quits being a martial
artist unless they make thatchoice.
So people who say, well, when Iwas 25, I could do blah, blah,
blah, they could still do thatthing that they're saying they
could continue training if theycontinue training.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So that's a great way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well, and there's different people who have
different goals with it, likeyou were saying, and it's, I
think it depends on the you knowthe person, and whether they
want to compete or they want tojust get in shape, but they all
come away with that marketableskill of being able to, if
taught right, adequately defendthemselves and then teach others
, if they want to, how to dothat, or they can just keep it
(11:51):
to themselves and be that guythat you know, a girl that
everybody kind of relies on forprotection somewhat, and just
gain confidence and giveconfidence to others, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
So you, primarily, if you compete, you do jiu-jitsu.
Now right, you don't do thingsto do.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, I'm getting ready to test in October for my
next level in Tongsidow andthere are Nick and my coach is
his name's Dave.
He's making us actually do amaster's tournament, which it'll
be the first time I've done aTongsidow competition to like
actually try to win since 2004.
(12:32):
Oh, wow.
That was the last competition Idid.
I won the international theassociation we were with at the
time.
Back then I was a third degree.
I won the national championshipin that organization.
Back then it was like a you gocompeting for events, you
accumulate points through thoseevents, they add them all
(12:53):
together whoever has the mostwins, type of thing.
So yeah, that was my last likeserious Tongsidow tournament
where I was doing my forms andsparring and stuff every day,
all day, Like I do jiu-jitsu now.
And so, yeah, jiu-jitsu kind offilled that void and it's.
I love it.
I love jiu-jitsu.
It's a healthy, mentally andphysically healthy martial art.
(13:18):
It's really, really good.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, there's so many things around jiu-jitsu that
well, brazilian jiu-jitsu Like Iwas looking up, I was getting
into breath work and I think Itold you this, and the first
thing that came up in regards tobreath work was breath work in
relation to BJJ, like in orderto and it was just a YouTube
(13:45):
video, but it was the firstthing that came up about it.
And then the guy was justtalking about how BJJ and breath
work, how they work so welltogether and how they show
importance.
But it's a great if you'retrying to get into breath work.
It's a great sport to get into,to also learn how to use breath
work, and so I thought that wasinteresting, that that was one
(14:07):
of the first things that came up.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, it's because it involves so many this is
something that Jance was tellingme because it involves so many
different kinds of energysystems.
If you don't learn the aspectof breathing, if you don't get
that down in the first littlebit, then you're just always
tired during your rounds, and sothat's why it is so important
to learn how to breathe.
But it also it's the same inrelating to like how to calm
(14:30):
yourself down when a stressfulsituation is going on and how to
breathe through that.
It's the same, Like it'sidentical as far as I know.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So martial artists, you see so in terms of becoming
a professional in this sport,can people really make a living
off of it as a professional?
Because you have UFC fightersor boxers where there is a level
where you're starting to makemoney off?
(15:01):
of your competition, whereaswith not just Brazilian
jiu-jitsu, I would say martialarts in general, just different
forms in terms of Tengsudo, judo, anyone that I can like think
of off the top of my head, Idon't feel like you see people
necessarily making a living fromjust being, you know, the
(15:25):
winner of their tournament,right?
So how do they, how do peoplelike?
So you you created your ownbusiness and you teach it, and
then you also still compete andyour students compete and stuff
like that.
So is there, I guess, a levelof success that one could
achieve as a professional incompetition, or they would be
(15:47):
able to support themselves, oris there always something else
you kind of have to do tosupplement that?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I think it's a little bit of both, or a lot of
sessions, actually a lot of both, the number one way, in
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at least,because that's my like field, I
don't, I don't know about likeprofessional karate, like karate
competitions where they go doforms for the Olympics.
Now, I can't.
I can't speak to that because Idon't know.
(16:12):
As far as like sponsorships andstuff, I'm sure they get plenty
of sponsorships because karateand taekwondo, muay Thai, boxing
and judo are all Olympic sports.
So if somebody's good and theycan get enough sponsorships,
then yeah, they can.
They can live off that.
They can live off competition.
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is nowherenear that.
(16:34):
Right now the highest paidprofessional competitor is
Gordon Ryan and he just competes.
He trains at an academy thatsomebody else owns and runs, but
he competes and makes moneythrough competition.
But there's not a lot ofcompetitions that pay enough to
(16:55):
like make it like they're notgetting paid millions of dollars
like a boxer right.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But there's enough money in teaching it that most
what happens with most Jiu-Jitsuguys is they either teach on a
online digital platform like BJJFanatics or something and that
supplements or makes a lot ofthe money for them.
And the greater level ofcompetition that they go to and
(17:23):
compete in, the more notorietyand the more popularity they
gain.
So they like he's known as thenumber one.
He's like for us in Jiu-Jitsu.
A lot of people kind of look athim as the Michael Jordan of
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
He's the one who's made it getinto the UFC Fight Pass for ADCC
, for Nogi.
He's the one who's kind of beenthe forerunner for making
(17:47):
competition Brazilian Jiu-Jitsubecome a livelihood for some
people.
But even if you think aboutlike he doesn't have when he
does matches, he doesn't makefor one match.
He doesn't make more than Idon't know.
Maybe one match is like I don'tknow 40,000, 50,000 dollars.
(18:09):
It's not the kind of pay you seein the UFC now and that you see
in boxing especially Boxingboxers are paid like high level
boxers are paid very, very wellfor their competition without
having to go teach.
So what most people do is theydo what I've done where they
open a school, they gain enoughstudents to make a living from
it, and then that's their alsotheir way to keep training so
(18:32):
that one day they can compete ata high level and have those
other subsidiary areas of income.
If that's the goal, what I'malso finding, as someone who
owns a school and cares a lotabout their students, doing both
, is very, very hard, and onewill lack if the other one
doesn't.
So, like when I'm reallyfocused on competition and I'm
(18:55):
training hard and getting readyto compete in a match or
something, the business notfalls behind, but has a.
You know, there's no balancethere.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You only have so much energy and attention that you
can commit in a 24 hour day.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Right, exactly, so if there's a focus on one, then
the other one's going to fallbehind a little bit, like our
business is doing really goodright now.
Competition wise.
I would love to step into acompetition right now, but I
physically would make it throughlike one or two matches where I
might have.
I could have five or tenmatches in a day, maybe more,
and would need to be in shapefor that.
(19:30):
I mean, I say that I probablydo okay and I would still do it,
but it's just not where I thestandard I hold for myself.
I don't feel like I'm preparedenough to do a competition.
I've got plenty of otherfriends who'd be like oh, you're
good enough, you could just goin and compete.
But I'm for where I want to bebefore I compete.
In the preparation I want toput myself through.
(19:50):
I just not there because we'vebeen focusing on the business.
But that's so that there can bea better balance between family
business competition and nothaving one waxer weighing when
the others are more important.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think also it's important to recognize that
there are ways for you to pursueyour passion that don't because
you could have easily said,gone and got a different job,
didn't create your own companyand maybe use that job to try
and support paying you to go andcompete if that's what you want
(20:31):
to do.
But I think there's somethingto be said for the fact that you
loved this sport.
You know both Tangsudom, bjj,brazilian Jujutsu those are kind
of your two primary and youloved it to a point that you
created a business to keep youaround your passion and I mean
(20:52):
and then I also the communitythat you built, which kind of is
perfect.
In regards to my next question,how did creating your business
come around, like, come aboutfor you?
When did you make that decision?
Hey, I want to branch out on myown and create my own community
.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
No, I've always wanted to do martial arts.
My goal would be, by the timeI'm in my 40s or 50s, to be
known as one of the best martialartists or most well rounded
martial artists in the world,just because of what all I have
been exposed to and done.
And the biggest thing about allmartial artists if they keep
(21:32):
the attitude of being a studentat all times and they can go
anywhere they want to go Likethat's I think that's one key,
key thing that martial artsteaches that a lot of other
things don't is that you'realways a student.
Like I might be the top guy inthe room, there's always going
to be another guy.
I can learn something from whowhether it's one of my students
or it's a visitor, or it's megoing to another school I'll
(21:54):
always be able to learn adifferent way to do something
that I've always done a certainway, and I think if you have
that mindset in all things,including opening a business or
running, you know doingsomething that you're passionate
about.
I think that I think thatthat's a huge mindset to have.
We so we in July of 2014.
(22:15):
We started, or I startedCaleb's martial arts and fitness
LLC, and then we morphed it todoing business as Iron Wolf
Academy.
The Iron Wolf Academy was aname that the people who owned
the Academy before I did one ofthe partners one of the business
(22:36):
partners to help me come upwith it.
They actually bought the rightsto it and all that, and then I
bought the business from them,created my own LLC and legally
bought the rights to use thatname is for my lifetime.
So I was in college, I was asenior and was doing horrible at
college and so technically I'ma college dropout, which I'm
(22:59):
okay with.
I might go back and finishsometime.
I might not.
I don't know.
I really like what I do.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well, you're, yeah, you're very successful.
I would consider you verysuccessful, yeah, and I feel
like your success just grows,which is really exciting to
watch and to see.
Just from the time that I'veknown you like moving to a
bigger studio.
Your classes are much largerthan they were in the beginning,
like just in the word.
(23:26):
How long have I known you nowSince?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
2017.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But yeah, it's just been really exciting Like you've
grown so much and I wouldconsider you incredibly
successful where you are evennow.
But I think you'll just growmore and more.
So I mean, I, yeah, I, I acollege dropout.
I'm just kind of like, yeah,there's people who are college
dropouts, people who are highschool dropouts.
I think it just depends on yourvision, your goals and how much
(23:54):
work you're putting into it.
Those titles don't really rightyou know necessarily guarantee
you anything.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Right.
Well, I say I mean I say itjokingly because it's I mean,
college for some people is verymuch needed for their field, and
other people, like I don't wanta doctor that hasn't gone to
college to do work on me, that's, but yeah, that's for sure.
But somebody who has gone toJiu Jitsu college, you know they
, they can be successful in whatthey do without a degree, as
(24:24):
long as they maybe, you know,learn from someone who's who's
got a business that's runningwell.
And that's the great thingabout Christian is he has
results, both this this longlist of of actual Jiu Jitsu
accomplishments that are huge,but he also has this long list
of business accomplishments thatare huge as well.
(24:44):
And like, at one time I thinkhe had an academy that was
10,000 square feet, and this isall pre COVID.
I want to say he was 500 plusstudents I don't know exactly
what number, but he had at hisacademy training throughout the
week, 500 people, throughout themonth, 500 people, and that's a
that's a lot of people to beable to communicate with, manage
(25:06):
, teach, all that kind of stuffthrough all the different
programs that they had, andthat's it's just.
To be able to be under somebodylike that is a huge, huge honor
.
But I think anybody who has, whothey're passionate about
something, they've definitelygot to find the the holes that
(25:26):
they have and fill them in sothey gain experience.
And they, if they really wantto be successful with something,
they're passionate.
Because you can.
You can be passionate aboutsomething and keep learning it
and training it and doing it,whatever, and not grow it as a
business.
But if you definitely want touse it as a business, you want
to take the time to learn to doit smart, so that people are
like, oh yeah, that thatperson's legit or that person
(25:48):
runs a successful business orwhatever it is Versus.
Oh, they're just reallypassionate about it and they
just, you know, they do it allthe time because they're
obsessed.
Well, yeah, yeah, but howsuccessful are they?
You know they might be obsessedand that's great, but what have
they done with it?
You know what legacy are theygoing to leave behind?
What are they going to?
What are they doing right now?
How are they?
How are they growing?
Things like that.
That's what I look for now.
(26:09):
Instead of kind of that trust,but verify, instead of just
trusting what someone says aboutsomething, I always try to go
to what?
Okay, what's their, what'stheir rap sheet?
What are they?
What have they done?
Do they have facts behind themthat back up what they're saying
?
They're saying to do?
You know, right, and peoplelook for that authenticity of
someone practicing what theypreach.
You know, people look for thatand they respect it and I think,
(26:34):
I think that's that's somethingthat the the martial arts
community and fitness communityin general.
But because we, we technicallyfall under, like the fitness
business, the fitness community,I would say, like you want to,
you don't need to follow someonejust because they have a six
pack or a really cool Instagramprofile.
(26:55):
You know, you want to see theirresults yeah, you get into that
trouble too.
Yeah.
And then on the flip side ofthat point, you want to.
You don't want to followsomeone who has a lot of head
knowledge but doesn't put itinto practice.
You know, there's, there's,there's both those sides of the
coins of well, this guy's rippedjacked, he must be doing
something right.
We could just be working outevery so often and be roiding up
and not eating anything.
(27:15):
You know and that's notexperienced.
But then you have the otherside of the person who might,
they might, be a great trainer,they might be a good, and this
happens in martial arts all thetime.
There might be a great teacherand a great coach, but they are
out of shape.
They are not able to perform,not able to.
That's why I want to keepcompeting, even into my like old
age.
(27:35):
Eventually is I, don't I?
don't want to expect my studentsto do something I still can't,
and that's, that's not astandard for anybody else.
That's my own standard.
But like if I tell a student,hey, do a 360 hook kick?
Well, first question they'regoing to ask me is, okay, show
me.
And that I want to be able toshow them that you know.
(27:55):
And if, if somebody doesn't askme that, then I'll be like, hey
, do you want to see it?
You know, and so I have a lotof respect for people who they.
They have that side of the coin, down of both the head
knowledge of they've educatedthemselves, they've done the
homework on things, but theyalso put the physical work in to
(28:16):
show the results of whatthey've, that they practice,
what they preach, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So and I love what you said too, because all this
stuff applies to anything reallyoutside.
It doesn't have to just bemartial arts, it's anyone,
anyone starting a business.
And I was going to ask you oneof my questions what would your
advice be to anyone wanting tostart their own business or
pursue their passions to a pointof turning it into a career?
(28:41):
But I think everything you justsaid answered it.
You know, I really think thatthat answered that question.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I was just going to say.
The only thing to add to thatis this is something I do, I
know I do and I have to work onstill is trusting again,
trusting without verifying.
I'm a very.
If somebody tells me to do ABCand I don't know them very well,
I've gotten better at sayingOkay, I need to.
I need to look more into thatbefore I make a decision on it.
(29:12):
Versus like well, actually,before meeting your sister, I
would have just done if someonehad a position of authority over
me, I would have just donewhatever they said, and I think
my attitude about that hasshifted.
So if somebody wants to takesomething they're passionate
about, this is so they don't getburned out, and so they don't
get burned by someone they would, no matter what.
(29:33):
Someone who has a high caliber,you know a rap list or is just
getting started, whatever itmight be always, always, always,
trust, but verify, say, hey, Iappreciate what you told me, I'm
gonna look more into that, youknow, and then use it to the
best of their ability for whatthey need it for.
And if it's not, if it'sseriously not something they
should do, then they need to beable to say, no, I'm not gonna
(29:54):
do that, you know.
I think that's something we'vegotten better at, and it's
definitely been.
One of the things that's helpedour business grow is cutting out
some of the things that wedon't need.
That was just too much.
So sometimes less is more, youknow, and so it's been.
That's one of the things Ithink to add on to that with
(30:16):
what I said previously is makesure, no matter who tells you to
do something, like how to runyour business or anything.
Always trust, but verify andthen come back to is this really
what I wanna do and how I wannado it, and if it's not, then
just don't do it.
Do it the way you want to, youknow.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Right, and I think it's so interesting to that
sometimes.
Well, first let me say mysister, jordan, who Kayla was
mentioning his wife, who hementioned a second ago she's got
a great bullshit detector andit's something that I that did
not.
I don't know where that camefrom for Joe, but it did not get
(30:51):
poured into my gene cup orwhatever.
I don't know if it was throughher life experience or, but I'm
glad that that's rubbed off onyou because I really think it is
such a great thing.
Jordan is just so good aboutyou know this doesn't work for
me.
so why am I gonna do that?
Why would I do that, whereas Iget so concerned with making
(31:14):
sure the other person is happy?
And so I'm grateful that that'srubbed off for you, because I
definitely think and she does itwith a level of grace and class
that it's not that she doesn'tcare about people, but it's that
she also really recognizes herown values and self-worth and
isn't gonna sacrifice those tomake somebody else happy.
(31:34):
And so, which is something I'mworking on, but I'm glad to hear
that.
That sounds like that's rubbedoff on you through dating her
and now being married to her,because I feel like it's the
greatest skill.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
I think most of the things, most of the big changes
we made in the business.
She told me I should make thosechanges in the business and
then a coach would tell me, hey,you should make these changes.
And I'd tell her, hey,christian said we should do this
, and she's like I told youshe'd do that three months ago
or I told you she'd do that amonth ago.
I was like, yeah, yeah, and Ishould have listened and I
didn't.
I have to apologize about itbecause she is forward thinking
(32:10):
and, like you said, has a BSdetector that is very high level
BS detector.
Yes, very good, but you're rightshe does it with grace, and she
does it with kindness and orshe does it with firmness that a
lot of the world needs of justsaying I'm doing that, sorry,
(32:31):
nope, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah she's great at.
Yeah, it's something I'm lowkey envious of that.
I'm trying, I try to watch herand she's like why don't you
just not do that, like you don'twant to do that, or just send
the text.
And I also, you know, normallyaround dating or something I'll
like you know you were in thecar that one time where I was
(32:53):
trying to like make this supernice text and she was like just
tell them you don't want to seethem again.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
But anyway.
But what I was going to say isin regards to everything you
were talking about with businessis if somebody gives you advice
and it did work for them, butyou look at it and you're like,
no, I don't want to do that,that's the other thing.
Is one the trust and verify.
Verify what they've said,verify that they can back up
(33:21):
what they're telling you to do,but also recognize that what
works for them might not workfor you, and that's okay.
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I mean that goes into martial arts again, like
there's there's moves that Idon't do, that my coach does
beautifully, because I justdon't do them.
And in some moves he does andI'm like, wow, I think I could
actually take that and do itbetter than you, you know, and
he's like go for it.
You know, I think that's one ofthe greatest things about
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is it canbecome a very personal,
(33:48):
personable martial art where youdon't you don't have to do
everything.
My job as a coach is to teacheverything and then be honest
with my students and say, hey, I, and when I'm rolling with you
guys, I'm not going to do itthis way, but this is a way that
I think would work.
And if you like it cool, use it.
If you don't like it cool,don't use it.
And just to be authentic andsay it that way, which a lot, of
(34:12):
, a lot of coaches in martialarts, all martial arts, don't do
that they're like this is afront kick.
You always do the front kickthis way, you always do the
punch this way, blah, blah, blah.
It's like, yeah, yeah, youshould, because there are
principles there that you knoweveryone needs to follow.
But even in in a punch, whereasa lot of uniformity and a lot
of people doing it the same way,every person's body's built
(34:32):
different, so even down to likerange and timing, it could be
millimeters or centimeters off.
My punch compared to your punch, my punch compared to Jordan's,
my punch compared to MuhammadAli's or somebody who's a lot
taller or a lot shorter, theirpunch, the range even in punches
, can be personal.
In the timing and how theyexecute it can be personal.
(34:56):
And that's I think I'm findingout now is a great thing about
martial arts.
And it leads back to thebeginning of our conversation of
why there are so many differentkinds of styles.
Why there are so many different.
It's just because people well,the greatest, I think the
greatest way is explained ismartial arts is military or
combative show of expression,right, so we don't all paint the
(35:16):
same painting when we do art.
Some people have abstract artwhich I don't understand.
Some people might look atBrazilian Jiu Jitsu that way and
be like, wow, that's reallyweird especially some of the
no-gi stuff we do.
And then some people are like oh, it's boxing, it's very.
You know, there's six punches,boom, and it's just.
I understand these six punchesand I make them work from
everywhere.
And again it gets into thatwith business as well.
(35:40):
Just, you know, you can really,in the world we live in, we can
do what we want, how we want,and then take advice from other
people when it did work, if itdidn't work, cool, and kind of
do our own thing and be creatorsof something.
And I think the level ofunderstanding of that is what
makes martial arts so beautifulas a sport hobby.
(36:01):
Whatever you wanna consider it,you know.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
No, I really like that.
I also like how passionate.
I know you're passionate aboutit, but it's just fun to hear
people when they get excitedabout you know what they're
talking about.
Okay, kind of.
The last question I have foryou, just wrapping up the
interview, is where do you seeIron Wolf Academy in the next
five years?
What's kind of your big thingthat you wanna do in terms of
(36:25):
growth or your next big goal forthe Academy?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
We just rebranded our logo, so that was one big step.
Jordan did a lot of awesomework on that.
She just took us from 1990smartial arts look to a more
modern look, which I was reallyexcited about and really
appreciated that.
She pushed us to do that, andit's really neat having like a
(36:49):
teammate to do these things with, because for so long I've done
it by myself and never wouldhave done that, because I like
my old logo and I'm selfish.
And so she was like, no, weshould do this.
And I'm, I think, even moreselfish about this new one
because I'm like well, I don'tever wanna change it again.
It looks so good, you know, yeah, but so in five years the what
was first step we went throughthe rebranding.
(37:10):
The next step is gonna beexpansion of our gym.
I don't know what that lookslike.
It could be a few things.
It could be merging with Jantsand being in the same building
as him.
It could be having our ownstandalone building in its own
area, buying our own property,renting a spot out of there to
(37:30):
other people while we can growand expand and eventually just
kick people out and take overthe whole building.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I say kick out gently , you know.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, help them grow their business.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Yeah, help them grow their business and when they get
too big for our spot, kick themout.
We'll just move into it, youknow, but own the building.
There you go.
That's kind of that's.
I like that because it gives mecontrol of the business a lot
more than renting from someoneelse.
So that's more where I'mleaning, and I like it.
It also allows us to changethings when we want and not have
to ask permission.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Gotcha yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
So that's kind of the first.
Next big step is expansion andthat somewhere in there get back
into competition myself andgain a world title.
I've got some guys.
Well, jance is gonna go competeat the ADCC trials and first
time any of us have been, soit'll be like kind of the step
(38:27):
in to see what that atmosphereis like.
A lot of my friends have gone,so next year I'm planning to go
do that the ADCC trials and justget in there.
If we get it if we meddle, thenwe might go to the trials, you
know, or we might go to ADCCCool, If not cool.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Just kind of step back into that.
What is ADCC?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So sorry.
Adcc is the Abu Dhabi CombatClub.
It is the Olympics of grappling.
It's like the tournament oftournaments that everyone.
You can't get it.
You can't register and go toADCC.
Two years prior to the actualADCC competition.
They do trials in Europe, asia,south America and they do two
of them in the US, one on theEast Coast and one on the West
(39:10):
Coast.
If you meddle at the trials andI think it's, it may be just
the gold medalists.
I can't remember.
I need to look this up and makesure I have it down.
But I know if you win at trialsyou get invited to go to ADCC
and compete and that's so.
It's like you fight all theguys who want to get to the top
(39:33):
and then they take the top andthey just take the foam off and
bring it into the actual ADCCevent and that's where all the
best guys compete.
And then they have like a bunchof superfights in certain
weight classes and then theyhave a big superfight of the
absolutes.
So right now Gordon Ryan's theguy who won last year or two
years ago and he how often is it?
(39:57):
Andre Gouvalle.
It's every two years, so youget it's where like so the IBJJF
, which is the InternationalBrazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation,
their tournaments.
If we go to the worldchampionships this year, next
year I would have to competeagain to keep my world title
right.
Adcc you compete, you get itfor two years, you get paid, you
(40:17):
get a lot of sponsorships.
It's just a much moreprestigious tournament to
compete in and everyone all thegood grapplers want to go
compete at it.
So everyone, right nowespecially, is working really
hard to go to trials and compete, and it's just one we're new to
.
We haven't ever been.
We should have, we should haveprobably gone in the past, but I
(40:39):
I'll probably.
I want to go next year.
We've got a lot of people fromGeorgia that are friends of mine
in other schools.
That's actually one of the coolthings about tournaments
outside of your own state thatare like world level tournaments
A lot of the people from thesame state.
If you're friends, they kind ofhang out together at the
tournaments.
My first world championshipNogi tournament that I went to
(41:02):
was the 2018 Nogi Pan's I thinkNogi Pan Ams and it's where
Gordon Ryan got like slappedaround a bunch by a guy named
Cyborg.
I was there.
It was awesome.
It was one of the coolestevents I've ever been to.
But everybody from Georgia kindof all hangs out together and
it's like your, your own state'steam kind of.
(41:24):
I was bummed because I didn'thave an actual team that I went
with, I just went by myself.
So I would encourage anyone inBrazil and Jiu Jitsu if you ever
want to go compete at a bigtournament like that, have a
team to go with.
Don't go lone wolf.
It's not fun.
It is fun.
It is fun.
It's just from the competitionstandpoint.
It's.
It can be hard.
(41:44):
So go with the team, go withsome friends and you're going to
hear a lot of Brazilian JiuJitsu guys talk about how their
team did this, their team didthat.
Man, we all do Brazilian JiuJitsu.
It's one of the.
It's one of the most well, forsome schools it's one of the
most welcoming communities thatthere is.
(42:04):
As far as I've experienced withmost schools the schools that
are toxic in that area you don'treally hang around anyways and
they don't normally allow you tohang out with them, so it's not
really that big a deal but, the, the schools that like like me,
and the guys from Megalodonhang out at tournaments, the
guys from X3, the guys from someof the guys from SBG we'll all
(42:27):
hang around and chat and drilltogether If we need to at big
tournaments like that, justbecause we know each other.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
So yeah that's.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
That's the one of the big events we want to go to is
ADCC.
So somewhere in the next fiveyears have a an ADCC competition
under my belt.
Whether it's a medal there ornot, just go, you know, multiple
years.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And then compete at Masters Worlds, the, the world's
championships, pan Am's, a lotof the big tournaments.
Try to get into them again.
Instead of the local ones, dothe local ones as like a, like a
warmup kind of Um and then mystudents want to go do the local
ones, cause they don't have tofly to California or Las Vegas
or something.
So anybody who's like, hey, Iwant to do the one in Swanee and
(43:10):
Swanee, Georgia, Um called Newbreed, at the Swanee Sports
Academy.
If they're like, hey, I want togo do that.
I try to go coach them, Um, andthey they usually gain a lot of
great experience from that,Like a it's it's.
The tournaments are funnybecause you learn 100% what not
to do or what to do better, andso the next week after a
tournament they come in andtrain.
They already have beenprocessing how they messed up or
(43:33):
how well they did in their mind, and they are already much more
of a challenge the week after atournament, which is that's
always fun too.
So so yeah, that's kind of fiveyear goals, Um, with the
academy, Um.
So yeah, that's kind of that's,that's forward thinking, kind
of what we're looking at.
There's going to be a lot offun stuff in there as well, you
(43:53):
know, with family and differentthings too.
So we'll see, see what all,what all happens in five years.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Well, thank you so much, Caleb.
I had such a good time talkingto you today.
Um, I will mention Jance.
Uh, me and Caleb talked abouthim a few times.
He is our trainer, um, and thenhe also takes Jiu-Jitsu from
Caleb.
See if I can get him on here totalk to him on IME also because
he's got he's a business owneras well.
(44:20):
Really cool guy, um.
Anyway, yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you everyone forlistening.
I hope some people uh tooksomething away from this.
They enjoyed it.
They learned something.
Maybe they didn't know.
If you can rate and review thispodcast, I would really
appreciate.
It Helps me keep doing what Iam doing.
And thank you again, caleb.
That's a lot to sit down andtalk to you and everybody else.
I will see you in the next one.
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