November 20, 2023 • 36 mins
Picture this, a regular New York City server, scouted and thrust into the glitz and glamour of the modeling industry. Sonny, with his firsthand experiences, will enlighten us on the inner workings of the industry, the role of modeling agents, and the stringent standards models must adhere to for bookings.
Sonny openly shares his experiences. He’ll also discuss the tough reality of an oversaturated market and the importance of having a backup plan in this industry. And for those with a curiosity for club promoting, Sonny lays it all bare, Sonny shares his reflections and advice, drawing from his personal experiences.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome to.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I Am Me podcast.
I'm your host, Liz Bachman, andon this podcast I want to
celebrate you for being you.
I'm super excited to sit downwith my guests each week and
talk about their journey, theirexperiences and where they came
from.
So, without further ado, let'sdive into this week's episode.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hey everybody, welcome back to.
I Am Me Today.
I'm super excited I get to sitdown and talk to Sonny Dang.
He is a New York City model andhe also does some club
promotion on this side.
I've never met him before, sothis is, I think, the first
person I've interviewed that Ihave not met.
So I'm excited to see how thisgoes.
But, with all that being said,how you doing today, sonny- Hi,
I'm doing great, Liz.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you for having me on here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, of course, super excited to sit and talk
with you, just kind of kickingthings off.
The first thing I always liketo ask people is how did you get
into you know what you're doingso modeling, how did that kind
of start for you?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So I was in college but I was taking a year off.
Tuition was getting a littlecrazy and I was paying for that
myself out of pocket.
So I took the year off to say Ihave some money working here in
there.
And I landed a job as a serverin Manhattan.
I'm working at thisMediterranean restaurant and one
(01:12):
day this girl comes into thestore and she walks up to me and
goes hey, do you model and ifnot, would you be interested?
And out here, like, with likeplates in my hands.
You know I'm like, I'm servingfood to people.
And I go no, I don't model.
People have told me in the pastthat I should consider it
mainly my sister.
(01:33):
But it's kind of like ascenario where, like your mom
tells you oh, you're sobeautiful, right?
I always thought it was justbecause it was my sister telling
me and so I tell her no, Idon't model.
People have told me, I guess,what I would be interested.
I had no idea what the fashionindustry is like.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And so this is something that, like I always
thought was kind of cool.
But, like again, no, no cluewhat the industry is about.
So this girl, she tells me,Okay, come to my place in
Brooklyn and I'll take photos ofyou.
And so I'm like, oh, reallyWait a minute kind of weird,
like I don't know.
It's like a situation where it'slike, if it's too good to be
(02:09):
true, probably is right.
Well, actually it turned out tonot be like the case, and I was
hesitant at first.
I did decline in the moment,but maybe like one or two weeks
later actually ended up reachingout.
Yeah, things turned out fine.
We did meet up somewherebeforehand so I could get to
nowhere and went to her place inBrooklyn and then, yeah, she
explained the whole thing to mehow it works, how it usually
(02:31):
works for models, that I wouldbe hopefully signing with an
agent and that you know theywould take commissions off of
any bookings that they get melike a sort of similar to like
acting.
And then, yeah, she took photos, sent them out to a couple of
agencies.
Nothing really landed at firstfor a while, but I kind of took
things in my own hands for a bit.
(02:53):
And then I landed into a bigagency and I had been with them
for like three years and thenI'm curious.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So her angle, was she like a photographer who was
trying to get her star, or why?
I guess, what did she get outof seeking you out and having
you?
Because that's a lot of work onher part she actually was a
model herself.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
She was also trying to create her own agency.
She really was recruitingmodels in the industry.
We had this thing called motheragents, and so I did sign with
her initially, but we had a bitof a falling off.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Okay, that's.
I mean, that's common.
I can't relate to modeling, butjust as an actor I can relate
to.
Sometimes there's falling outwith agents and sometimes you
have to move on and youultimately have to do what's
best for you.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Like my relationship with her was becoming a little
volatile.
We had some disagreements onlike how I should be marketed,
the direction I wanted to go inthe industry.
So I think you know we left onokayish terms.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I'm.
So I imagine modeling Is itlike acting and that you really
have to kind of thin foryourself and your.
You are marketing yourself likeyou're your product that you're
trying to sell.
Is that similar and modelingthat it works that way?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I would say, like models don't have as much
direction as actors.
At the end of the day, like ifyou're a signed model, your
booker is the one who kind oftells you like, hey, we want
this certain look for you andfor the most part you kind of
just go with the flow, right,whatever they say kind of goes.
They're the one who's pushingyou out and they're the ones
(04:30):
with the connections.
Yeah, you just kind of stick towhat works.
Like, sometimes maybe you wantto change your hair or something
you kind of want like the okayfrom your booker.
Otherwise it gets a littlerisky with like let's just say,
you do fashion and now your newstyle doesn't work for fashion.
Well, now your, your booker,has to totally revamp, like your
(04:52):
com card and digital, so thatwhen they do push your portfolio
, like it's going to be for theright type of job.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Is that so?
Is that hard for you staying incertain boundaries?
If, because you can't reallychange your appearance much
without getting some type ofapproval, does that get
frustrating with you?
If you're like, hmm, I kind ofwant to like, I don't know, do
something crazy, dye my hair acrazy color, or and you're just
like, oh, I can't.
Or are you just good with itBecause you know this is what
(05:25):
you want to do?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
for me personally, I don't like to go crazy type of
styles anyway, so, whatever mybooker says, it's usually best
for me, for the industry and forlike real life.
You know, I don't really have acrazy fashion sense, I'm pretty
simple guy.
You know.
Button downs, jeans, I don'tknow, like for some people.
Like you know, you want toexpress yourself and it's
(05:49):
totally normal for people.
Depending on the type of thingsyou do like fashion, maybe you
can get away with it.
The commercial work, right, asyou know, a lot of clients want
like a just a regular, normalperson, your everyday, you know,
casual.
So you can't go like red hair,green hair, pink hair and like
mohawk, right, like it justwouldn't work.
(06:11):
So for me I mainly docommercial work lifestyle.
I keep it simple.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, so that's it.
So I don't know anything abouthow booking or any of that
process of what that is like fora model.
How does that work for you?
How does you know?
As an actor, we go on auditions, but how does bookings come
about for a model?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There's several ways to get booked.
One, obviously, your agent.
A lot of times they'll do mostof the legwork.
Sometimes if you're freelancing, there are several ways of
getting booked.
I mean forums, craigslist asweird as it sounds, but I've
(06:52):
honestly booked some pretty bigjobs like on on Craigslist
there's.
There's like Was it backstage?
Actors access, they have modeljobs there all the time, just
some people don't know whereelse.
Instagram like sometimes peoplewill reach out to you via DM,
you know with the job offer.
I've booked like a couple ofcampaigns, actually, just like
(07:15):
the direct bookings.
Yeah, that's it.
It's like simple.
So there's like many ways toget booked.
It just depends on like whetheror not you want to go with like
an agent or if you want to workon your own.
Obviously, you got to take careof yourself with that and track
your bookings and and like youryour paychecks and invoices.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Okay, and then our rates for models.
When you book so acting, youknow we have different sag rates
and stuff like that, or is itjust people?
Is there a union affiliatedwith modeling, or is it just
this is what we're gonna pay youfor this project, and then you
just decide whether or notyou're going to accept pretty
much Whatever the client wantsto pay you.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You can negotiate.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
If you're freelancing right.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
If you're working on your own, you can.
You have like room to negotiate, but you got to know like how
much this job is worth.
So we paid a Session fee andthen we get paid usage fee
depending on, like you know, thetype of job.
Usually it's like biggerclients that pay usage fees.
Start our companies Don't, mostof the time just because of
(08:20):
like budget big campaigns, likeusually that involve like a
billboard, that's the type ofthing that will pay usage fee.
And if you Use up that usagefee like, for example, three
years is what the client willuse this Campaign for.
If, past three years, theydecide to still use it, they can
(08:42):
renew for like X amount andthat'll be, you know, determined
by both parties beforehand.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
How long have you been modeling?
Almost?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
five years.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
And then my question is how do you feel like you've
progressed from the beginning towhere you are now?
Because I imagine modeling Imean, I definitely think it's a
skill that you have to you know,get good at knowing how to pose
and stuff like that and Iimagine nerves in the beginning
versus where you are now.
I'm sure there's still nerves,but how do you feel like that
progression has happened for you?
Or what do what do you do to, Iguess, get better at modeling?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
in the beginning I was marketed as like Asian
fashion model.
I think for me that was totallydifferent skill to have.
Fashion and lifestyle aredifferent in the sense of what
things you can do, like posesthat you can do, and just like
type of look Very different.
One is more like edgy, moreattitude.
(09:37):
The other is just more relaxed,just be yourself, but also be
mindful of the audience you wantto Portray to.
I did have to learn a couple ofthings, like Walking the runway
, for example.
It sounds easy, just walk likea human, just a normal human
being.
But then sometimes you know,depending on the outfits you
(09:59):
wear, it can affect like reallylike how you walk.
Or sometimes the Show will beoutside in the cold and you have
to look like you're notmiserable, like freezing your
ass off.
You know what I mean right.
So there's like differentconditions you kind of have to
be able to work in.
Sometimes you have to work likejust 90 degree weather or I
(10:20):
guess like hundred new you,whether like outside in the
woods or something, wearing fallclothes or winter clothes,
because when clients shoot fortheir products they have to
Shoot ahead of time, right?
So if it's like winter clothes,we're most likely shooting end
of summer.
You're wearing Jackets right inthe dead of the heat.
(10:42):
So these things like can add uplike if you're not like
physically fit, I mean you'regonna, you're gonna like pass
out during set and that's notgood for anyone.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I was gonna say do you prefer the commercial jobs
more?
Do you like more of thelifestyle stuff, or do you miss
doing fashion at all?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So for for a while I did miss doing fashion.
It is the more glamorous job,but unfortunately fashion
doesn't pay that much.
Hmm and you know, as I'mgetting older Bills are, you
know, adding up commercial pays.
I mean, I'd say almost threetimes as much.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Wow, I wouldn't expect that.
I would think it'd be the other.
Yeah, I think it'd be the otherway around.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So that's really that's that's what most people
kind of assume too.
I mean, even for me, like whenyou look at modeling, a lot of
what you see is fashion, a lotof what you see is runway, but
turns out runway is actuallywhat pays the least, if at all.
And it's kind of like sad,because most models that come to
New York they have this dreamof you know, working as a model.
(11:43):
But what ends up happening isnot a lot of working models and
so we have a very oversaturatedmarket with a lot of people
looking to get a leg in, lookingfor work and it ends up like
where you need to get like aside job.
So, like I'm for me, thankfully, like you know, I've been doing
this for about five years.
I'm grateful to say that youknow I am a working model and
(12:04):
I'm still working in thebusiness.
But I am like a lot older.
I started late.
Most people start, like youknow, in their teenage years,
especially females.
They start like as young as 14years old and I started like 23.
I'm 28 now.
So I'd say like modeling for meis not coming close to an end,
(12:25):
but I do have to start thinkingabout like other avenues of like
for a career.
So, thankfully I do have adegree also.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
That's interesting because I, as an actor, I don't
really think about having ashelf life, so to speak, but as
a model, I guess you do so likean athlete that there will be a
time where your looks willchange to a point that you start
to stop and slow down and youhave younger people coming in
behind you.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, so that's why like the commercial and
lifestyle is a lot better for alot more models, just because
there's not like an age limit.
Really, it just depends onwhat's needed at the time of the
season or what type of productsare being marketed.
A wide range of like ages thatcan model in commercial.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Do you have a shoe like that was like your favorite
, or one that really stands out,that you just are really proud
of or enjoyed doing?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I have a few.
Actually, I'd say most recentlythis campaign I did for Kohan.
Just like a shoe company.
They are releasing iWeard nowand so I was able to do a
campaign with them.
The campaign was marketed ontheir social media so that was
pretty huge and they put abillboard in Times Square.
(13:48):
So a lot of people that I knowthey see the billboard and they
always like hey, is this?
You Like?
Oh, we saw you in Times Square,like this is crazy.
And it's not like a smallbillboard either, it's like up
there, it's like huge.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Everyone sees it like by the stairs, the iconic
stairs in Times Square.
So yeah, of course I had tocheck it out.
I'm out here just like takingvideos and myself just all
giggling and all that, but thisisn't the first time I've had a
billboard.
I've also worked with anothercompany called JD Sports and
they opened a flagship in NewYork, so I did a campaign with
(14:23):
them a few years back and yeahthey had like a smaller one.
It was cool, Got to see like meup there.
That one was exciting becausethat was the one where I got to
show my parents like hey, mom,dad, like I'm in Times Square,
Like this is pretty cool right.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That would kind of be an epitome of feeling like
you've made it.
If you could go to Times Squareand look at a billboard of
yourself, that would just feellike I've done it, like I've
done the thing.
I don't feel like you couldachieve much more than that.
Yeah, it was definitely like.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, it definitely felt like an accomplishment,
especially as a model right.
You always want to see yourcampaign up and running Times
Square, especially on TV orsomething like that.
That's pretty much always thegoal.
Like I said, I've had two, soright now the goal is to have
two billboards running in TimesSquare at the same time.
(15:22):
I don't know, that's going tobe a lot harder.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Because what happens?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
is that when you do a job, when you work with a
client and they're going tomarket for a billboard or
something like that, it takes awhile before that gets pushed
out.
So I did Kohan last year andthe billboard didn't come out
until during the summer.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
That's very similar to acting You'll book a job and
you'll work, and then people,friends or family, it'll be like
when can I see it?
You're probably in like a year,maybe a year and a half, yeah
if evens that.
Yeah, I know I've gottencareful about showing people
work that I've done until I'veseen it and known that I
(16:04):
actually made the final product.
Oh yeah, I'm not trying to becut out of it and like oh,
actually, you just see my pinkyin the shot, oh, what do you
think?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Is that the pinky?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I was going to say so kind of on the flip side of
that, what is a project thatkind of failed for you or just
did not go well, and then howdid you recover from that?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
There was a eyewear company, a startup.
They were trying to get theirproducts out by spring, so we
did a shoot in the winter.
It was like third week ofDecember In New York.
It's just cold, 30, 20 degrees.
We did the shoot by Dumbo.
We're walking the bridge.
(16:48):
It was just like super windy,super cold.
But the client wanted some ofthese shots to be no jacket.
They wanted it to look like itwas spring right.
So like jacket is what I had towear for the shots.
The photographer I was workingwith Like he was a great guy but
very, very, very picky and hewould want like certain shots in
(17:11):
a certain pose, or maybe therewas just too many people in the
background or just somethingwould affect a shot we need to
retake it.
And I just remember just likekill me, like I'm so over it.
I'm not getting paid nearlyenough for this shot.
It was only like a two hourshot too, but it felt like a
whole day.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And walking like from Manhattan to Dumbo and then
Dumbo back to Manhattan.
It was like, yeah, I rememberthat being one of the worst
photo shoots for me and I didn'teven get to see the pictures.
Like I don't even think thecompany is up and running
anymore.
So I try to think of like, yeah, I try to think of that as like
(17:54):
it only goes up from here youknow?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, I was going to ask you.
So, looking back on your career, would you, if anything, would
you do anything differently?
Just knowing what you know now?
Would you approach thingsdifferently, I guess?
How would that kind of changefor you?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, 100%.
I wish somebody told me thatdon't like hope for too much out
of like modeling it.
For me really it's not a career, you know, and if for most
people it's a short lived one.
I really wish somebody told mekind of like just either get a
side job which I've done likeclub promoting a lot earlier, or
(18:33):
just work in modeling and focuson college.
I was really hoping formodeling to kick off like a lot
harder for myself.
Definitely my expectations aremore tame now.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think that's an important point to make, because
that's one thing that haschanged for me with acting to be
, because acting is a long it'smore of a long road If you stick
with it.
It's not a quick, you just makeit or have success.
I think it's a really goodthing to recommend even as
(19:07):
models or actors or anything inthat vein, because they're close
together, I would say, in a lotof ways.
But just to find balance inyour life, was it like?
Did you feel like you had tojust be all about modeling all
the time in order to findsuccess or achieve your goals?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I felt like in the beginning, the harder I tried,
the more opportunities wouldcome to me.
That's not really the case, atleast for me.
What ended up working best isjust focusing on myself and
letting those opportunities cometo me, whether or not it was
(19:47):
when I was signed with an agentor working solo, freelancing.
For being with an agency,obviously you have somebody who
books you the jobs, but you'vegot to know what type of agency
will look out for you.
You get the general idea of howmuch they like you pretty much
(20:07):
in your first three meetingswith them.
Communication is reallyimportant too between model and
a booker, and what to expectfrom them is a big step in
knowing how the next three yearsof your contract will look like
.
That's how long most modelswill be with an agency.
We have three year contracts.
(20:29):
Whether or not it's a good timedepends on how much agency
likes you.
Vice versa, though, withfreelancing you have to submit
yourself to different projects.
We have self tapes as actors wedo self tapes as auditions or
(20:49):
we'll go to a casting.
But as a freelancer you have toknow where those castings are.
They're not marketed onInstagram.
Anybody can come.
These are clients that areselecting people.
Sometimes it can be hard tofind the end for a casting per
se, but that's why there'sCraigslist I do say Craigslist,
but it does work sometimes andthere's the apps.
(21:12):
They do help with freelancemodels, startup companies who
can't hire these professionalmodels, like in IMG Wilhelmina,
these big agencies.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Did you notice any toxicity in the modeling
industry?
Because I feel like when I hearabout modeling, that's
something I have talked to,because I have a few actor
friends who are models, whotransitioned into acting, but
they're females and they talkabout some of the toxicity in
modeling.
I don't know if that's the samefor males.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I will say 100%.
Females get the brunt of thework.
Males have it way easier in theindustry.
Our standards are not evenclose to being as strict as for
females.
Aside from lifestyle andcommercial work, I do fit
modeling as well.
I have to watch out for mymeasurements.
(22:05):
I can't deviate too much, butfor the most part I'm okay.
I don't have to really worryabout weight fluctuations.
As long as I fit mymeasurements I'm good Females,
even if they're not in fit.
They're expected to be superskinny and weigh between like 90
to 105 pounds If you go overjust a little bit, your agency's
(22:30):
.
On top of that, I know a lot ofgirls who it does affect them
some way or another.
Lifestyle even they're alwaysworried about what they're
eating.
It's like when I see that itkind of breaks my heart.
You have to skip breakfast,lunch even sometimes.
Or like when you do eat likegirl dinner, right, like I know
(22:52):
it's like a joke but it'shonestly a thing and it's really
sad to see some of my friendsare like you can just tell
they're miserable.
Like when they're like hangingout with people.
It's like they can't.
It's like almost like theycan't have fun.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, because I mean, even like you think about
nightlife and stuff like that,and if you want to have a drink
or whatever, like alcohol is aton of calories.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So that's you know yeah, you gotta be mindful of,
even in nightlife, yeah that'san interesting insight because I
feel like we in the media arefed.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
You know that there's more body inclusivity and
bigger models are a thing, butreally I, when you get down to
it, it feels like it's.
It still has a long, long wayto go.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Oh for sure.
I mean, a size model is justlike a concept that's relatively
new, right, I think theindustry is still like kind of
navigating how to work aroundthat, but it is, you know, it's
a step in the right direction.
I mean, having more type ofpeople model is, I think,
healthy, you know, long term.
And then there's like also,aside from your physical looks,
(23:57):
like girls have to be wary of,just like photographers, the
creeps.
Yeah we all hear about it.
It is unfortunately a thing.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
That's really good insight to, and I think you know
as a male model one you cangive us that insight, but two,
you can give us that insightwithout fear of it hurting you.
I guess in a way because I feellike some female models who are
in the industry would maybe notbe as willing or as forthcoming
with how things are, becauseyou always fear about how is
(24:31):
this going to affect my jobs andmy outcome.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, like guys we sometimes we do get
harassed certain people, butjust like a much lower, much
lower scale.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So like knowing that about the industry, that's kind
of like the downside of it.
But what are some positive,like some positives of being in
the modeling industry?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Some of my favorite things about modeling is that I
get to go to places that Inormally wouldn't.
I get to meet people I probablywould never meet.
I think opportunity kind oflike.
It's much different.
I don't have to work as hard aspeople with a 9 to 5, right
gigs come and go.
It's like I'm not working everyday, so I do have like down
(25:21):
time for myself and I get toenjoy things that I wouldn't be
able to if I'm working like anoffice shop or anything like
that.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
So you have a favorite place.
You've gone for modeling.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I definitely have gone to some cool spots, like
one client took me to Montauk ohcool, that's like the Hamptons.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
They.
They had a really nice Airbnb.
We stayed there overnight andclients were like really great
people.
They cooked and bought likewine and liquor for us to enjoy
after the shoot.
That was really fun core memoryfor me, for sure.
And like the shoot itself waspretty fun too, Like we were by
(26:05):
this lake house, so you know,the views were gorgeous, Weather
was just perfect.
One of the shots was us at thebeach and we had like a little
campfire going and the people Iwas working with the two other
models they're great too.
Like everything was just.
It was just a fun time.
And that's also another thingwith like modeling Sometimes it
(26:28):
doesn't feel like work.
Sometimes it feels like you'rejust hanging out, you know and
getting paid.
It's like best of both worlds,right, Like when you can enjoy
work.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Right, we talk about an acting.
There's like the hang is like athing that we talk about.
So it's like the hang, like thein between shots and like is it
like?
That's a really fun part ofacting is if the environment's
really good and you're having agreat time with the crew and the
other actors.
It makes it.
It doesn't feel like work, it'sjust so fun.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But also, you know, not everyone's going to be fun.
There's been times where it'slike kind of awkward, like you
know, really talking with othermodels right the sets really
weird.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a mixed bag and you always
get excited when you get on areally good set or shoot and
it's the you cherish those forsure.
Yeah for sure.
So I know like your primarything is not club promotion, but
I am kind of curious about thatbecause that sounds like
perhaps a pretty good job forsomeone working in modeling or
(27:34):
acting or just the entertainmentindustry.
So I'm kind of curious how didthat come about for you, or how
did you get into that, or andthen just kind of how that works
, because again, I don't knowanything about club promotion.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So don't laugh.
But I got club promotingthrough Craigslist.
I was, I'll tell you, this isweird side, but no, like I was
at the time.
I was looking and browsingthrough Craigslist, I was
freelancing for a little bit andyou know keywords model jobs,
(28:11):
right.
This one listing comes up as amodel promoter and so I'm like
kind of confused.
Never really heard of that.
So I'm looking through thelisting.
I messaged an email.
The guy he responds back to meis like hey, can you come to
this club for like an informalinterview?
I'm like, okay, I know theplace, it's a really popular
(28:34):
spot.
So like I don't think anythingbad's gonna happen.
I go, I meet the guy, we talk,let's chill guy, and he explains
to me what like promoting is.
He explains to me the industry,right, and so this was like
something I had an idea of doinga while back.
I just never knew anybody toget, like you know, my in into
(28:57):
the industry and so I was likeyeah, let's do it.
I have, like you know, a bunchof model friends.
It shouldn't be too hard.
But basically, like the job isto host the table at a club and
have the table filled with girls, right, that's essentially what
(29:20):
club promoting is.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And then wait.
How does that help the club,though?
Is it like they tell theirfriends, or is that?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
so club gets their money through clients or people
who buy tables, right, if youever see like the pricing of a
table at a club, it's expensive.
I mean you're talking like forat least in New York for six
people, eight people, you'relooking to spend about like
1.2,000.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Okay, geez Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And that's and like.
The bottles that you get arelike.
Like, if you look at thesebottles online or at a liquor
store, I mean, they're onlyreally worth like $100 at most
right For like the bottom shelfand so the markup is insane
right, but that's because theyneed to pay people who work at
(30:08):
the club and it's not cheap.
Like promoters, we make likedecent money.
I earn like a full rate, andthat varies from club to club.
So the idea is that the peoplewho buy tables are usually like
finance guys, and finance guyswon't buy a table if the club is
empty right or if there's likeno girls, if it's just like all
(30:28):
guys like I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It's a little harder, right, like I think, to fill up
the space with clients.
But yeah, so you want a clubfilled with girls because it'll
likely attract people to buytables there, because they want
to hang out with, like thepretty girls, right?
So club earns money throughthat and then they pay out
people like promoters.
They'll have maybe, like Idon't know, three, four
(30:51):
promoters on a given night.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Okay, I'm curious how do you go and find girls?
How does this work for you?
What's your strategy?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So at first it was like kind of difficult because I
got into promoting a littlelate.
Some of these promoters arelike 10 years into the game, so
they already have like a builtup network of girls to invite
out.
And as many girls come to NewYork City, there is like a
(31:20):
finite amount of people that onedon't have a promoter Right.
So I had two who are willing togo out late and like hang out
with like a complete stranger todress appropriately and be fun.
Like it's kind of hard actually.
So in the beginning, like I wasinviting my friends, I thought
(31:43):
it would be pretty easy with theincentive of like free dinners,
free drinks and a table andlike good music at a club.
Well, people got jobs, peopleget tired.
So I had to like really findmore people to invite out.
At first it was Instagram right, Just reaching out to like
anyone that I thought would be agood fit to hang out with me on
(32:06):
like explore page, for example,or like hashtags.
I guess that I've for mepersonally.
It wasn't really working out,so sometimes you can find people
like on the street, like maybein SoHo or bars, right, but I'm
like not too extroverted, I amlike introverted.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm like that was my otherthought.
Just talking to you, myimpression of you isn't like
some crazy extroverted personwho's going to be going up to
strangers on the street a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, I'm not.
Yeah, that was like kind ofhard for me to do.
I think I'm a little better now.
I will like approach someone.
I think is like I think wouldlike want to hang out with me at
the club.
But primarily I do use datingapps to promote, like a
promoting page, gotcha.
So Hinge is one that I useprimarily.
(32:57):
I have set up a profile and itstates that you know I am a
promoter.
This is all.
It is Not really looking todate.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Well, that's cool.
That's a good way to do it,though, because that is a huge
pool of females that you couldpotentially be getting to come
out.
That's actually really smart.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Like I don't have to swipe for anybody.
Anyone that wants to likeanyone that sees my page is like
oh, I would like to hang outwith him for a night.
They'll reach out to me becauseI have my Instagram.
They'll reach out to me onInstagram and it's like free
advertising for me.
And then, you know, they comeout with me, they have a good
night, they refer me to liketheir friends and then it's like
(33:36):
word of mouth is probably thebest way.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, I was just curious about that because I
know you mentioned it at thebeginning.
So I was kind of like, ok, well, that's a cool thing for
someone to be doing, I guess,and making money, especially
with the industry that you're inand, like you said, gigs aren't
always coming in and you gotbills, you got to pay bills.
(33:59):
So, kind of closing out, likemy final question for you would
be what is your advice to anyonewho is trying to get into
modeling?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Trying to get into the industry.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, like they have no modeling experience, kind of
what's your resources.
What steps would you recommendthat they take in just trying to
get a foot in the door?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Definitely, definitely, find a couple of
models that are like big modelsright, who are very famous,
popular, kind of see what theydo, what works for them, and
then kind of incorporate thatinto your modeling persona.
I'd say it's all a persona atthe end of the day, and the more
(34:51):
you copy something that works,it'll work for you too.
But be patient too.
It's difficult to get in.
It's not made for everyone.
Not everyone makes it into theindustry.
So if you're committed to it,be patient.
It is a whole process and justkeep going, keep trying.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Well, thank you so much, Sunny.
I really appreciated talking toyou.
I'm glad we got to sit down anddo this and I think you gave
some really really goodinformation and insight.
Is there anything you want tosay in closing or anything you
want to share that I didn't ask?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
No, I think I've got my thoughts out OK, but thank
you for having me.
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
All right guys.
Thank you so much for listening.
I really hope that everybodyenjoyed this episode and got
something out of it, learnedfrom it.
I really appreciated talking toSunny.
If you could rate and reviewthe podcast, follow the
Instagram.
That helps me do what I'm doingand, yeah, I look forward to
talking to you guys in the nextone.
Welcome to.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I Am Me podcast.
I'm your host, Liz Bachman, andon this podcast I want to
celebrate you for being you.
I'm super excited to sit downwith my guests each week and
talk about their journey, theirexperiences and where they came
from.
So, without further ado, let'sdive into this week's episode.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hey everybody, welcome back to.
I Am Me Today.
I'm super excited I get to sitdown and talk to Sonny Dang.
He is a New York City model andhe also does some club
promotion on this side.
I've never met him before, sothis is, I think, the first
person I've interviewed that Ihave not met.
So I'm excited to see how thisgoes.
But, with all that being said,how you doing today, sonny- Hi,
I'm doing great, Liz.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you for having me on here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, of course, super excited to sit and talk
with you, just kind of kickingthings off.
The first thing I always liketo ask people is how did you get
into you know what you're doingso modeling, how did that kind
of start for you?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
So I was in college but I was taking a year off.
Tuition was getting a littlecrazy and I was paying for that
myself out of pocket.
So I took the year off to say Ihave some money working here in
there.
And I landed a job as a serverin Manhattan.
I'm working at thisMediterranean restaurant and one
(01:12):
day this girl comes into thestore and she walks up to me and
goes hey, do you model and ifnot, would you be interested?
And out here, like, with likeplates in my hands.
You know I'm like, I'm servingfood to people.
And I go no, I don't model.
People have told me in the pastthat I should consider it
mainly my sister.
(01:33):
But it's kind of like ascenario where, like your mom
tells you oh, you're sobeautiful, right?
I always thought it was justbecause it was my sister telling
me and so I tell her no, Idon't model.
People have told me, I guess,what I would be interested.
I had no idea what the fashionindustry is like.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And so this is something that, like I always
thought was kind of cool.
But, like again, no, no cluewhat the industry is about.
So this girl, she tells me,Okay, come to my place in
Brooklyn and I'll take photos ofyou.
And so I'm like, oh, reallyWait a minute kind of weird,
like I don't know.
It's like a situation where it'slike, if it's too good to be
(02:09):
true, probably is right.
Well, actually it turned out tonot be like the case, and I was
hesitant at first.
I did decline in the moment,but maybe like one or two weeks
later actually ended up reachingout.
Yeah, things turned out fine.
We did meet up somewherebeforehand so I could get to
nowhere and went to her place inBrooklyn and then, yeah, she
explained the whole thing to mehow it works, how it usually
(02:31):
works for models, that I wouldbe hopefully signing with an
agent and that you know theywould take commissions off of
any bookings that they get melike a sort of similar to like
acting.
And then, yeah, she took photos, sent them out to a couple of
agencies.
Nothing really landed at firstfor a while, but I kind of took
things in my own hands for a bit.
(02:53):
And then I landed into a bigagency and I had been with them
for like three years and thenI'm curious.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
So her angle, was she like a photographer who was
trying to get her star, or why?
I guess, what did she get outof seeking you out and having
you?
Because that's a lot of work onher part she actually was a
model herself.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
She was also trying to create her own agency.
She really was recruitingmodels in the industry.
We had this thing called motheragents, and so I did sign with
her initially, but we had a bitof a falling off.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Okay, that's.
I mean, that's common.
I can't relate to modeling, butjust as an actor I can relate
to.
Sometimes there's falling outwith agents and sometimes you
have to move on and youultimately have to do what's
best for you.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Like my relationship with her was becoming a little
volatile.
We had some disagreements onlike how I should be marketed,
the direction I wanted to go inthe industry.
So I think you know we left onokayish terms.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I'm.
So I imagine modeling Is itlike acting and that you really
have to kind of thin foryourself and your.
You are marketing yourself likeyou're your product that you're
trying to sell.
Is that similar and modelingthat it works that way?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I would say, like models don't have as much
direction as actors.
At the end of the day, like ifyou're a signed model, your
booker is the one who kind oftells you like, hey, we want
this certain look for you andfor the most part you kind of
just go with the flow, right,whatever they say kind of goes.
They're the one who's pushingyou out and they're the ones
(04:30):
with the connections.
Yeah, you just kind of stick towhat works.
Like, sometimes maybe you wantto change your hair or something
you kind of want like the okayfrom your booker.
Otherwise it gets a littlerisky with like let's just say,
you do fashion and now your newstyle doesn't work for fashion.
Well, now your, your booker,has to totally revamp, like your
(04:52):
com card and digital, so thatwhen they do push your portfolio
, like it's going to be for theright type of job.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Is that so?
Is that hard for you staying incertain boundaries?
If, because you can't reallychange your appearance much
without getting some type ofapproval, does that get
frustrating with you?
If you're like, hmm, I kind ofwant to like, I don't know, do
something crazy, dye my hair acrazy color, or and you're just
like, oh, I can't.
Or are you just good with itBecause you know this is what
(05:25):
you want to do?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
for me personally, I don't like to go crazy type of
styles anyway, so, whatever mybooker says, it's usually best
for me, for the industry and forlike real life.
You know, I don't really have acrazy fashion sense, I'm pretty
simple guy.
You know.
Button downs, jeans, I don'tknow, like for some people.
Like you know, you want toexpress yourself and it's
(05:49):
totally normal for people.
Depending on the type of thingsyou do like fashion, maybe you
can get away with it.
The commercial work, right, asyou know, a lot of clients want
like a just a regular, normalperson, your everyday, you know,
casual.
So you can't go like red hair,green hair, pink hair and like
mohawk, right, like it justwouldn't work.
(06:11):
So for me I mainly docommercial work lifestyle.
I keep it simple.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Yeah, so that's it.
So I don't know anything abouthow booking or any of that
process of what that is like fora model.
How does that work for you?
How does you know?
As an actor, we go on auditions, but how does bookings come
about for a model?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There's several ways to get booked.
One, obviously, your agent.
A lot of times they'll do mostof the legwork.
Sometimes if you're freelancing, there are several ways of
getting booked.
I mean forums, craigslist asweird as it sounds, but I've
(06:52):
honestly booked some pretty bigjobs like on on Craigslist
there's.
There's like Was it backstage?
Actors access, they have modeljobs there all the time, just
some people don't know whereelse.
Instagram like sometimes peoplewill reach out to you via DM,
you know with the job offer.
I've booked like a couple ofcampaigns, actually, just like
(07:15):
the direct bookings.
Yeah, that's it.
It's like simple.
So there's like many ways toget booked.
It just depends on like whetheror not you want to go with like
an agent or if you want to workon your own.
Obviously, you got to take careof yourself with that and track
your bookings and and like youryour paychecks and invoices.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Okay, and then our rates for models.
When you book so acting, youknow we have different sag rates
and stuff like that, or is itjust people?
Is there a union affiliatedwith modeling, or is it just
this is what we're gonna pay youfor this project, and then you
just decide whether or notyou're going to accept pretty
much Whatever the client wantsto pay you.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
You can negotiate.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
If you're freelancing right.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
If you're working on your own, you can.
You have like room to negotiate, but you got to know like how
much this job is worth.
So we paid a Session fee andthen we get paid usage fee
depending on, like you know, thetype of job.
Usually it's like biggerclients that pay usage fees.
Start our companies Don't, mostof the time just because of
(08:20):
like budget big campaigns, likeusually that involve like a
billboard, that's the type ofthing that will pay usage fee.
And if you Use up that usagefee like, for example, three
years is what the client willuse this Campaign for.
If, past three years, theydecide to still use it, they can
(08:42):
renew for like X amount andthat'll be, you know, determined
by both parties beforehand.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
How long have you been modeling?
Almost?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
five years.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
And then my question is how do you feel like you've
progressed from the beginning towhere you are now?
Because I imagine modeling Imean, I definitely think it's a
skill that you have to you know,get good at knowing how to pose
and stuff like that and Iimagine nerves in the beginning
versus where you are now.
I'm sure there's still nerves,but how do you feel like that
progression has happened for you?
Or what do what do you do to, Iguess, get better at modeling?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
in the beginning I was marketed as like Asian
fashion model.
I think for me that was totallydifferent skill to have.
Fashion and lifestyle aredifferent in the sense of what
things you can do, like posesthat you can do, and just like
type of look Very different.
One is more like edgy, moreattitude.
(09:37):
The other is just more relaxed,just be yourself, but also be
mindful of the audience you wantto Portray to.
I did have to learn a couple ofthings, like Walking the runway
, for example.
It sounds easy, just walk likea human, just a normal human
being.
But then sometimes you know,depending on the outfits you
(09:59):
wear, it can affect like reallylike how you walk.
Or sometimes the Show will beoutside in the cold and you have
to look like you're notmiserable, like freezing your
ass off.
You know what I mean right.
So there's like differentconditions you kind of have to
be able to work in.
Sometimes you have to work likejust 90 degree weather or I
(10:20):
guess like hundred new you,whether like outside in the
woods or something, wearing fallclothes or winter clothes,
because when clients shoot fortheir products they have to
Shoot ahead of time, right?
So if it's like winter clothes,we're most likely shooting end
of summer.
You're wearing Jackets right inthe dead of the heat.
(10:42):
So these things like can add uplike if you're not like
physically fit, I mean you'regonna, you're gonna like pass
out during set and that's notgood for anyone.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
I was gonna say do you prefer the commercial jobs
more?
Do you like more of thelifestyle stuff, or do you miss
doing fashion at all?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
So for for a while I did miss doing fashion.
It is the more glamorous job,but unfortunately fashion
doesn't pay that much.
Hmm and you know, as I'mgetting older Bills are, you
know, adding up commercial pays.
I mean, I'd say almost threetimes as much.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Wow, I wouldn't expect that.
I would think it'd be the other.
Yeah, I think it'd be the otherway around.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So that's really that's that's what most people
kind of assume too.
I mean, even for me, like whenyou look at modeling, a lot of
what you see is fashion, a lotof what you see is runway, but
turns out runway is actuallywhat pays the least, if at all.
And it's kind of like sad,because most models that come to
New York they have this dreamof you know, working as a model.
(11:43):
But what ends up happening isnot a lot of working models and
so we have a very oversaturatedmarket with a lot of people
looking to get a leg in, lookingfor work and it ends up like
where you need to get like aside job.
So, like I'm for me, thankfully, like you know, I've been doing
this for about five years.
I'm grateful to say that youknow I am a working model and
(12:04):
I'm still working in thebusiness.
But I am like a lot older.
I started late.
Most people start, like youknow, in their teenage years,
especially females.
They start like as young as 14years old and I started like 23.
I'm 28 now.
So I'd say like modeling for meis not coming close to an end,
(12:25):
but I do have to start thinkingabout like other avenues of like
for a career.
So, thankfully I do have adegree also.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
That's interesting because I, as an actor, I don't
really think about having ashelf life, so to speak, but as
a model, I guess you do so likean athlete that there will be a
time where your looks willchange to a point that you start
to stop and slow down and youhave younger people coming in
behind you.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, so that's why like the commercial and
lifestyle is a lot better for alot more models, just because
there's not like an age limit.
Really, it just depends onwhat's needed at the time of the
season or what type of productsare being marketed.
A wide range of like ages thatcan model in commercial.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Do you have a shoe like that was like your favorite
, or one that really stands out,that you just are really proud
of or enjoyed doing?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I have a few.
Actually, I'd say most recentlythis campaign I did for Kohan.
Just like a shoe company.
They are releasing iWeard nowand so I was able to do a
campaign with them.
The campaign was marketed ontheir social media so that was
pretty huge and they put abillboard in Times Square.
(13:48):
So a lot of people that I knowthey see the billboard and they
always like hey, is this?
You Like?
Oh, we saw you in Times Square,like this is crazy.
And it's not like a smallbillboard either, it's like up
there, it's like huge.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Everyone sees it like by the stairs, the iconic
stairs in Times Square.
So yeah, of course I had tocheck it out.
I'm out here just like takingvideos and myself just all
giggling and all that, but thisisn't the first time I've had a
billboard.
I've also worked with anothercompany called JD Sports and
they opened a flagship in NewYork, so I did a campaign with
(14:23):
them a few years back and yeahthey had like a smaller one.
It was cool, Got to see like meup there.
That one was exciting becausethat was the one where I got to
show my parents like hey, mom,dad, like I'm in Times Square,
Like this is pretty cool right.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That would kind of be an epitome of feeling like
you've made it.
If you could go to Times Squareand look at a billboard of
yourself, that would just feellike I've done it, like I've
done the thing.
I don't feel like you couldachieve much more than that.
Yeah, it was definitely like.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, it definitely felt like an accomplishment,
especially as a model right.
You always want to see yourcampaign up and running Times
Square, especially on TV orsomething like that.
That's pretty much always thegoal.
Like I said, I've had two, soright now the goal is to have
two billboards running in TimesSquare at the same time.
(15:22):
I don't know, that's going tobe a lot harder.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Because what happens?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
is that when you do a job, when you work with a
client and they're going tomarket for a billboard or
something like that, it takes awhile before that gets pushed
out.
So I did Kohan last year andthe billboard didn't come out
until during the summer.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
That's very similar to acting You'll book a job and
you'll work, and then people,friends or family, it'll be like
when can I see it?
You're probably in like a year,maybe a year and a half, yeah
if evens that.
Yeah, I know I've gottencareful about showing people
work that I've done until I'veseen it and known that I
(16:04):
actually made the final product.
Oh yeah, I'm not trying to becut out of it and like oh,
actually, you just see my pinkyin the shot, oh, what do you
think?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Is that the pinky?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I was going to say so kind of on the flip side of
that, what is a project thatkind of failed for you or just
did not go well, and then howdid you recover from that?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
There was a eyewear company, a startup.
They were trying to get theirproducts out by spring, so we
did a shoot in the winter.
It was like third week ofDecember In New York.
It's just cold, 30, 20 degrees.
We did the shoot by Dumbo.
We're walking the bridge.
(16:48):
It was just like super windy,super cold.
But the client wanted some ofthese shots to be no jacket.
They wanted it to look like itwas spring right.
So like jacket is what I had towear for the shots.
The photographer I was workingwith Like he was a great guy but
very, very, very picky and hewould want like certain shots in
(17:11):
a certain pose, or maybe therewas just too many people in the
background or just somethingwould affect a shot we need to
retake it.
And I just remember just likekill me, like I'm so over it.
I'm not getting paid nearlyenough for this shot.
It was only like a two hourshot too, but it felt like a
whole day.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And walking like from Manhattan to Dumbo and then
Dumbo back to Manhattan.
It was like, yeah, I rememberthat being one of the worst
photo shoots for me and I didn'teven get to see the pictures.
Like I don't even think thecompany is up and running
anymore.
So I try to think of like, yeah, I try to think of that as like
(17:54):
it only goes up from here youknow?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, I was going to ask you.
So, looking back on your career, would you, if anything, would
you do anything differently?
Just knowing what you know now?
Would you approach thingsdifferently, I guess?
How would that kind of changefor you?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Well, 100%.
I wish somebody told me thatdon't like hope for too much out
of like modeling it.
For me really it's not a career, you know, and if for most
people it's a short lived one.
I really wish somebody told mekind of like just either get a
side job which I've done likeclub promoting a lot earlier, or
(18:33):
just work in modeling and focuson college.
I was really hoping formodeling to kick off like a lot
harder for myself.
Definitely my expectations aremore tame now.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think that's an important point to make, because
that's one thing that haschanged for me with acting to be
, because acting is a long it'smore of a long road If you stick
with it.
It's not a quick, you just makeit or have success.
I think it's a really goodthing to recommend even as
(19:07):
models or actors or anything inthat vein, because they're close
together, I would say, in a lotof ways.
But just to find balance inyour life, was it like?
Did you feel like you had tojust be all about modeling all
the time in order to findsuccess or achieve your goals?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I felt like in the beginning, the harder I tried,
the more opportunities wouldcome to me.
That's not really the case, atleast for me.
What ended up working best isjust focusing on myself and
letting those opportunities cometo me, whether or not it was
(19:47):
when I was signed with an agentor working solo, freelancing.
For being with an agency,obviously you have somebody who
books you the jobs, but you'vegot to know what type of agency
will look out for you.
You get the general idea of howmuch they like you pretty much
(20:07):
in your first three meetingswith them.
Communication is reallyimportant too between model and
a booker, and what to expectfrom them is a big step in
knowing how the next three yearsof your contract will look like
.
That's how long most modelswill be with an agency.
We have three year contracts.
(20:29):
Whether or not it's a good timedepends on how much agency
likes you.
Vice versa, though, withfreelancing you have to submit
yourself to different projects.
We have self tapes as actors wedo self tapes as auditions or
(20:49):
we'll go to a casting.
But as a freelancer you have toknow where those castings are.
They're not marketed onInstagram.
Anybody can come.
These are clients that areselecting people.
Sometimes it can be hard tofind the end for a casting per
se, but that's why there'sCraigslist I do say Craigslist,
but it does work sometimes andthere's the apps.
(21:12):
They do help with freelancemodels, startup companies who
can't hire these professionalmodels, like in IMG Wilhelmina,
these big agencies.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Did you notice any toxicity in the modeling
industry?
Because I feel like when I hearabout modeling, that's
something I have talked to,because I have a few actor
friends who are models, whotransitioned into acting, but
they're females and they talkabout some of the toxicity in
modeling.
I don't know if that's the samefor males.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I will say 100%.
Females get the brunt of thework.
Males have it way easier in theindustry.
Our standards are not evenclose to being as strict as for
females.
Aside from lifestyle andcommercial work, I do fit
modeling as well.
I have to watch out for mymeasurements.
(22:05):
I can't deviate too much, butfor the most part I'm okay.
I don't have to really worryabout weight fluctuations.
As long as I fit mymeasurements I'm good Females,
even if they're not in fit.
They're expected to be superskinny and weigh between like 90
to 105 pounds If you go overjust a little bit, your agency's
(22:30):
.
On top of that, I know a lot ofgirls who it does affect them
some way or another.
Lifestyle even they're alwaysworried about what they're
eating.
It's like when I see that itkind of breaks my heart.
You have to skip breakfast,lunch even sometimes.
Or like when you do eat likegirl dinner, right, like I know
(22:52):
it's like a joke but it'shonestly a thing and it's really
sad to see some of my friendsare like you can just tell
they're miserable.
Like when they're like hangingout with people.
It's like they can't.
It's like almost like theycan't have fun.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah, because I mean, even like you think about
nightlife and stuff like that,and if you want to have a drink
or whatever, like alcohol is aton of calories.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
So that's you know yeah, you gotta be mindful of,
even in nightlife, yeah that'san interesting insight because I
feel like we in the media arefed.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
You know that there's more body inclusivity and
bigger models are a thing, butreally I, when you get down to
it, it feels like it's.
It still has a long, long wayto go.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Oh for sure.
I mean, a size model is justlike a concept that's relatively
new, right, I think theindustry is still like kind of
navigating how to work aroundthat, but it is, you know, it's
a step in the right direction.
I mean, having more type ofpeople model is, I think,
healthy, you know, long term.
And then there's like also,aside from your physical looks,
(23:57):
like girls have to be wary of,just like photographers, the
creeps.
Yeah we all hear about it.
It is unfortunately a thing.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
That's really good insight to, and I think you know
as a male model one you cangive us that insight, but two,
you can give us that insightwithout fear of it hurting you.
I guess in a way because I feellike some female models who are
in the industry would maybe notbe as willing or as forthcoming
with how things are, becauseyou always fear about how is
(24:31):
this going to affect my jobs andmy outcome.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, I mean, like guys we sometimes we do get
harassed certain people, butjust like a much lower, much
lower scale.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
So like knowing that about the industry, that's kind
of like the downside of it.
But what are some positive,like some positives of being in
the modeling industry?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Some of my favorite things about modeling is that I
get to go to places that Inormally wouldn't.
I get to meet people I probablywould never meet.
I think opportunity kind oflike.
It's much different.
I don't have to work as hard aspeople with a 9 to 5, right
gigs come and go.
It's like I'm not working everyday, so I do have like down
(25:21):
time for myself and I get toenjoy things that I wouldn't be
able to if I'm working like anoffice shop or anything like
that.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
So you have a favorite place.
You've gone for modeling.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I definitely have gone to some cool spots, like
one client took me to Montauk ohcool, that's like the Hamptons.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
They.
They had a really nice Airbnb.
We stayed there overnight andclients were like really great
people.
They cooked and bought likewine and liquor for us to enjoy
after the shoot.
That was really fun core memoryfor me, for sure.
And like the shoot itself waspretty fun too, Like we were by
(26:05):
this lake house, so you know,the views were gorgeous, Weather
was just perfect.
One of the shots was us at thebeach and we had like a little
campfire going and the people Iwas working with the two other
models they're great too.
Like everything was just.
It was just a fun time.
And that's also another thingwith like modeling Sometimes it
(26:28):
doesn't feel like work.
Sometimes it feels like you'rejust hanging out, you know and
getting paid.
It's like best of both worlds,right, Like when you can enjoy
work.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Right, we talk about an acting.
There's like the hang is like athing that we talk about.
So it's like the hang, like thein between shots and like is it
like?
That's a really fun part ofacting is if the environment's
really good and you're having agreat time with the crew and the
other actors.
It makes it.
It doesn't feel like work, it'sjust so fun.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But also, you know, not everyone's going to be fun.
There's been times where it'slike kind of awkward, like you
know, really talking with othermodels right the sets really
weird.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a mixed bag and you always
get excited when you get on areally good set or shoot and
it's the you cherish those forsure.
Yeah for sure.
So I know like your primarything is not club promotion, but
I am kind of curious about thatbecause that sounds like
perhaps a pretty good job forsomeone working in modeling or
(27:34):
acting or just the entertainmentindustry.
So I'm kind of curious how didthat come about for you, or how
did you get into that, or andthen just kind of how that works
, because again, I don't knowanything about club promotion.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
So don't laugh.
But I got club promotingthrough Craigslist.
I was, I'll tell you, this isweird side, but no, like I was
at the time.
I was looking and browsingthrough Craigslist, I was
freelancing for a little bit andyou know keywords model jobs,
(28:11):
right.
This one listing comes up as amodel promoter and so I'm like
kind of confused.
Never really heard of that.
So I'm looking through thelisting.
I messaged an email.
The guy he responds back to meis like hey, can you come to
this club for like an informalinterview?
I'm like, okay, I know theplace, it's a really popular
(28:34):
spot.
So like I don't think anythingbad's gonna happen.
I go, I meet the guy, we talk,let's chill guy, and he explains
to me what like promoting is.
He explains to me the industry,right, and so this was like
something I had an idea of doinga while back.
I just never knew anybody toget, like you know, my in into
(28:57):
the industry and so I was likeyeah, let's do it.
I have, like you know, a bunchof model friends.
It shouldn't be too hard.
But basically, like the job isto host the table at a club and
have the table filled with girls, right, that's essentially what
(29:20):
club promoting is.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And then wait.
How does that help the club,though?
Is it like they tell theirfriends, or is that?
Speaker 2 (29:28):
so club gets their money through clients or people
who buy tables, right, if youever see like the pricing of a
table at a club, it's expensive.
I mean you're talking like forat least in New York for six
people, eight people, you'relooking to spend about like
1.2,000.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Okay, geez Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And that's and like.
The bottles that you get arelike.
Like, if you look at thesebottles online or at a liquor
store, I mean, they're onlyreally worth like $100 at most
right For like the bottom shelfand so the markup is insane
right, but that's because theyneed to pay people who work at
(30:08):
the club and it's not cheap.
Like promoters, we make likedecent money.
I earn like a full rate, andthat varies from club to club.
So the idea is that the peoplewho buy tables are usually like
finance guys, and finance guyswon't buy a table if the club is
empty right or if there's likeno girls, if it's just like all
(30:28):
guys like I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It's a little harder, right, like I think, to fill up
the space with clients.
But yeah, so you want a clubfilled with girls because it'll
likely attract people to buytables there, because they want
to hang out with, like thepretty girls, right?
So club earns money throughthat and then they pay out
people like promoters.
They'll have maybe, like Idon't know, three, four
(30:51):
promoters on a given night.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Okay, I'm curious how do you go and find girls?
How does this work for you?
What's your strategy?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So at first it was like kind of difficult because I
got into promoting a littlelate.
Some of these promoters arelike 10 years into the game, so
they already have like a builtup network of girls to invite
out.
And as many girls come to NewYork City, there is like a
(31:20):
finite amount of people that onedon't have a promoter Right.
So I had two who are willing togo out late and like hang out
with like a complete stranger todress appropriately and be fun.
Like it's kind of hard actually.
So in the beginning, like I wasinviting my friends, I thought
(31:43):
it would be pretty easy with theincentive of like free dinners,
free drinks and a table andlike good music at a club.
Well, people got jobs, peopleget tired.
So I had to like really findmore people to invite out.
At first it was Instagram right, Just reaching out to like
anyone that I thought would be agood fit to hang out with me on
(32:06):
like explore page, for example,or like hashtags.
I guess that I've for mepersonally.
It wasn't really working out,so sometimes you can find people
like on the street, like maybein SoHo or bars, right, but I'm
like not too extroverted, I amlike introverted.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm like that was my otherthought.
Just talking to you, myimpression of you isn't like
some crazy extroverted personwho's going to be going up to
strangers on the street a lot.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, I'm not.
Yeah, that was like kind ofhard for me to do.
I think I'm a little better now.
I will like approach someone.
I think is like I think wouldlike want to hang out with me at
the club.
But primarily I do use datingapps to promote, like a
promoting page, gotcha.
So Hinge is one that I useprimarily.
(32:57):
I have set up a profile and itstates that you know I am a
promoter.
This is all.
It is Not really looking todate.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Well, that's cool.
That's a good way to do it,though, because that is a huge
pool of females that you couldpotentially be getting to come
out.
That's actually really smart.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Like I don't have to swipe for anybody.
Anyone that wants to likeanyone that sees my page is like
oh, I would like to hang outwith him for a night.
They'll reach out to me becauseI have my Instagram.
They'll reach out to me onInstagram and it's like free
advertising for me.
And then, you know, they comeout with me, they have a good
night, they refer me to liketheir friends and then it's like
(33:36):
word of mouth is probably thebest way.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, I was just curious about that because I
know you mentioned it at thebeginning.
So I was kind of like, ok, well, that's a cool thing for
someone to be doing, I guess,and making money, especially
with the industry that you're inand, like you said, gigs aren't
always coming in and you gotbills, you got to pay bills.
(33:59):
So, kind of closing out, likemy final question for you would
be what is your advice to anyonewho is trying to get into
modeling?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Trying to get into the industry.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Yeah, like they have no modeling experience, kind of
what's your resources.
What steps would you recommendthat they take in just trying to
get a foot in the door?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Definitely, definitely, find a couple of
models that are like big modelsright, who are very famous,
popular, kind of see what theydo, what works for them, and
then kind of incorporate thatinto your modeling persona.
I'd say it's all a persona atthe end of the day, and the more
(34:51):
you copy something that works,it'll work for you too.
But be patient too.
It's difficult to get in.
It's not made for everyone.
Not everyone makes it into theindustry.
So if you're committed to it,be patient.
It is a whole process and justkeep going, keep trying.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Well, thank you so much, Sunny.
I really appreciated talking toyou.
I'm glad we got to sit down anddo this and I think you gave
some really really goodinformation and insight.
Is there anything you want tosay in closing or anything you
want to share that I didn't ask?
Speaker 2 (35:30):
No, I think I've got my thoughts out OK, but thank
you for having me.
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
All right guys.
Thank you so much for listening.
I really hope that everybodyenjoyed this episode and got
something out of it, learnedfrom it.
I really appreciated talking toSunny.
If you could rate and reviewthe podcast, follow the
Instagram.
That helps me do what I'm doingand, yeah, I look forward to
talking to you guys in the nextone.
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