November 4, 2025 • 51 mins
On today’s episode, we’re sitting down with one of the loveliest humans on this planet, Lisa Zeitlin. She’s a Perinatal Mental Health-Certified Licensed Clinical Social Worker, hailing from the City of Angels - Los Angeles, CA, and is currently PSI’s English-Language HelpLine and Intervention Manager. We’ll chat all about the importance of having different care options, creating spaces that feel safe for help-seekers, and imposter syndrome (which is a real thing - even among providers). It was a pleasure to hear how Lisa’s professional experience led her to all of the incredible work she’s doing to support folks now at PSI! So, without further ado, please sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with our friend, Lisa.
Mentioned on today's episode:
- Podcast: Coach Bennett’s Podcast
- TV: Outlander; Outlander: Blood of my Blood; The Summer I Turned Pretty
- Book: Binding 13 & Keeping 13 by Chloe Walsh
- Contact Lisa: lisaz@postpartum.net
Interested in sharing your story?
Fill out our podcast interest form here!
Questions about the I AM ONE Podcast?
Email Dani Giddens - dani@postpartum.net
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Call or text 'HELP' to the PSI Helpline: 1-800-944-4773
Not feeling like yourself? Looking for some support? You never need a diagnosis to ask for help.
National Maternal Mental Health Hotline (U.S. only): 1-833-852-6262
Free and confidential Hotline for parents, providers & support people in English and Spanish.
Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S. & Canada): 988
Free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for p...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dani (00:00):
Welcome to the I Am One Podcast.
On today's episode, we'resitting down with one of the
loveliest humans on this planet,Lisa Zeitlin.
She's a perinatal mental healthcertified, licensed clinical
social worker hailing from theCity of Angels, Los Angeles,
California, and is currentlyPSI's English Language HelpLine
and Intervention Manager.
(00:20):
We'll chat all about theimportance of having different
care options, creating spacesthat feel safe for help seekers,
and imposter syndrome, which isa real thing, even among
providers.
It was a pleasure to hear howLisa's professional experience
led her to all of the incrediblework she's doing to support
folks now at PSI.
(00:41):
So without any further ado,please sit back, relax, and
enjoy this episode with ourfriend, Lisa.
Lisa, welcome to the podcaststudio.
We are absolutely thrilled tobe sitting with the one and only
Lisa Zeitlin! Let's hear it.
I'm just kidding.
This is not a game show.
But we sometimes pretend to beone.
(01:03):
Anyway.
Lisa (01:04):
I love game shows, so I'm here for it.
Dani (01:06):
Okay.
Um, let's not even do a podcastepisode then.
Let's just do a game showtoday.
Lisa (01:11):
Done.
Keeping our listeners on theirtoes.
Just kidding.
This is the highlight of ourday today.
The highlight of our week, thehighlight of our month.
No pressure.
No.
Uh, we just have to, you know,send some big love to you.
Every summer we get together.
Lisa works at PSI.
We'll get into that.
Emily (01:30):
Spoiler alert.
God, I'm so sorry, you guys.
This episode.
Dani (01:36):
It's so wonderful seeing all of our lovely colleagues
every summer at the PSIconference.
And the first time I see Lisaevery year, I'm like, I just
blurt her name out.
My arms open up.
I'm like, it's time for a hug.
So this is so lovely to get tosit in here and have my third
cup of coffee today.
Oh, my God.
(01:56):
Yeah, I know.
That's probably not a goodchoice.
But anyway, it's lovely tohave– oh, Powell's books!
Emily (02:03):
Cool.
I just shouted out randomly abookstore, um, for everybody
listening, if you're notwatching on YouTube, Lisa just
gave a cheers with her coffeemug, Powell's books, yeah.
Shout out.
You want to sponsor us,Powell's?
Just kidding.
We heart you.
If anybody needs a book, go toPowell's.
Anyway, Lisa, thank you so muchfor being here today.
Lisa (02:23):
No, no, no, no, no.
Thank you for having mebecause, like we said before we
were recording, this is for usto just hang, and chat, and just
be in the same space together.
Because, like you had said,physically at the PSI
conference, I mean, I justgravitate toward y'all.
Like I love spending time.
I love laughing with y'all.
(02:44):
I love-
Lots of laughing.
Just– I just love, love, love,love.
Time with you is kind oftherapeutic, you know?
Anyway.
Uh, everybody else that'slistening is, like, definitely a
fourth wheel right now.
Emily (02:57):
I feel like a third wheel right now.
It's kind of weird, like...
it's fine.
Lisa (03:04):
I love both of y'all so, so much.
Emily (03:07):
We love you too! I'm just so, so thankful to get to be
here and just chat.
Dani (03:12):
Well, Lisa, with that, could you give us a little bit
of an introduction to who youare?
Lisa (03:18):
So I first and foremost just want to say that unless I'm
in therapy myself, I'm reallynot talking about myself.
Dani (03:25):
Yes, this is weird, right?
Is this really weird?
I'm just gonna throw that outthere, just kind of, like, pin
that, make that known.
So I will now talk aboutmyself, which is odd.
Emily (03:35):
You're doing great.
Dani (03:36):
Yeah, I haven't even done an episode.
You're braver than me.
Lisa (03:40):
Thank you.
Thank you.
So I'm Lisa Zeitlin.
My pronouns are she/her.
I currently live on the WestCoast.
I'm living in Los Angeles,California.
It's where I was born andraised.
I am an Enneagram 2.
Dani (03:54):
Oh my gosh, I think I am too.
I don't know hardly anythingabout it.
Emily (03:57):
I don't even know what that is.
I'll Google it later.
Lisa (04:00):
Okay, yeah.
So Enneagram 2 is (04:00):
I don't connect with any, like my
astrological sign isSagittarius, but I don't think
it really, I don't know, itdoesn't quite hit the mark for
me.
Dani (04:13):
Oh.
Lisa (04:13):
So Enneagram 2, and then I am an INFJ.
Dani (04:17):
Did we talk about this before?
I think that's what I am.
Emily (04:20):
You are.
I am an ENFJ.
Yeah.
That's why this is magic.
So what you're saying is none of us are gonna read the
directions when we assemblesomething from IKEA, but we're
probably not gonna yell at eachother or lose any of the parts.
Lisa (04:36):
That is so absolutely accurate, and I've never felt
more seen.
Yes.
Dani (04:42):
I mean, is this a weird time to ask IKEA if they'd like
to sponsor the podcast?
I'm joking.
Emily (04:46):
They really should.
Parents with little kids...
Dani (04:51):
Need chairs.
And we're on a budget, so weneed flat pack, okay?
Like, hello?
It needs to fit in the van!
We need chairs...
Because the kids broke the legsoff the last one.
It's fine.
We're off– can I say off the rails?
Lisa (05:10):
Let me get us back, um...
Thanks, Lisa.
Again, I am not good at talking about myself, but I have
some prompts to bring me backbecause in conversation with
y'all, we can, like, really goand explore so many different
pockets of so many places.
So professionally, I am alicensed clinical social worker
(05:30):
in the state of California.
I have my master's in socialwork, I have a master's in
public health, and I have myPMHC through Postpartum Support
International.
And that's me professionally.
Emily (05:44):
Who are you personally?
Are you a Dodgers fan?
Dani (05:46):
Oh.
Lisa (05:47):
I am a very, very big Dodger fan.
Shout out to Kike, shout out tothe whole team.
Dani (05:54):
Okay.
Big fan.
I actually live, you know,pretty close to Dodgers Stadium
in this time in my life.
So I'm, you know, hoping to getto a few games this year.
Also, like, just plug if any Dodger, like, wants to hang
out, like, she lives close by.
So, you know.
Lisa (06:09):
Yeah.
Emily (06:09):
Or, like, any Dodger's partner needs a little support
emotionally.
Lisa (06:16):
Call me.
Helpline.
Emily (06:18):
Exactly.
Lisa (06:19):
Yeah.
So personally, love Dodgers.
I have a dog.
Her name is Marlo.
And um, she didn't have amiddle name, but we've given her
a middle name recently.
Marlo's full name is MarloTaylor Allison Swift Zeitlin.
Dani (06:37):
That is so cool.
I am also a large Swifty.
So if Taylor is, you know,listening, if she has her
earbuds in and hears this,hello.
I'm so proud of you.
Emily (06:49):
Midnights got me through my divorce.
Thank you.
Lisa (06:52):
Love Midnights.
So good.
Fantastic.
Dani (06:56):
Cool.
So that's me personally.
That's my dog.
That's my baseball team.
Emily (07:03):
Did I hear you have a dog?
Does that mean, are you akid-free human?
Should I be jealous of yourwhole life?
Lisa (07:12):
Yes.
Yes.
I am a kid-free human.
Dani (07:17):
Are you foreshadowing, Emily?
I'm sure we'll end up talkingabout this here in a little bit.
Emily (07:22):
Well, yeah.
I mean, I'm about to ask herwhat role perinatal mental
health has played in her life,personally and professionally.
And I'm thinking we're gonnahave a good story, so.
Lisa (07:33):
Well, I don't know if it's a good story.
Dani (07:36):
Spoiler alert, it is.
It's the story that I get tolive.
So I'm very grateful for that.
So yes, I am kid-free at themoment.
I came into this work ofperinatal mental health from the
professional door.
I was a social worker at ahospital for a few years in
(07:58):
downtown Los Angeles, servingthe Skid Row community primarily
and working on the OB, NICU,PEDs, antipartum, postpartum
floor.
Wow.
It's interesting because that'swhere, I feel like I was
professionally leading up tothat, but that's where it, like,
really smacked me in the faceof like, oh, I really love this.
(08:19):
But I had been serving andsupporting perinatal people
throughout my professionalcareer in graduate school, as
well.
So I was, before the hospital,during the hospital, I had a few
jobs just to get my licensinghours.
Was supporting families andpeople who were survivors of
domestic violence and sexualassault.
(08:40):
And so there are a lot ofparents that show up, just
naturally in that space.
So making that connection, kindof turning my head back and
being like, oh, I've lovedworking with perinatal people
and families for a long time.
And um, while I was working atthe hospital, I added another
(09:01):
hospital per diem work as asocial worker working
perinatally in another communityin LA.
And then I'm like, you knowwhat?
I really need to findresources.
Like, I want to make sure thatwhen patients are discharging,
they have a place or they theyhave a reputable resource that I
can give.
And I wanted to check that out.
So PSI, Postpartum SupportInternational, kept showing up.
(09:24):
And I'm like, what is this?
Why is that happening?
Like you Googled to find resources or you were getting
ads?
Lisa (09:32):
Yeah.
Getting ads...
Dani (09:34):
I don't know.
Is that what the kids aresaying these days?
I don't know.
Emily (09:38):
The ad comes into your feed and it's like, are you a
therapist?
Do you care deeply about peoplewho are...
matrescing?
That's probably not a verb, butI'm–
Would you like to sendresources to the most incredible
nonprofit serving the perinatalpopulation?
Then have I got a link for you.
That's a thought!
Lisa (09:57):
I do want to say that my Instagram probably thinks that I
am perinatal and for quite sometime now.
Emily (10:06):
So does mine.
Lisa (10:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Emily (10:08):
That ship sailed like 13 years ago.
Like, it's fine.
Lisa (10:13):
So the ads, if you're talking about ads, I my
Instagram like algorithm is spoton to a degree professionally.
Dani (10:22):
So like, here are some cute dogs, and the Dodgers, and
resources.
Lisa (10:27):
And Taylor.
Emily (10:28):
And Taylor!
Lisa (10:29):
Yeah.
Dani (10:30):
First, probably Taylor.
Emily (10:31):
Right now.
Lisa (10:32):
Right now, yeah.
Dani (10:33):
Yeah.
I mean, the news just hit acouple days ago, so.
Lisa (10:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's the algorithm,Taylor, dogs, baseball, PSI,
perinatal, yeah.
Dani (10:46):
Okay.
Lisa (10:46):
Yeah.
So back in the day I Googledand I think I wanna say this is
true, but I'm really not sure ifour resource list had
Postpartum SupportInternational.
I think it already might havehad it.
One of my hospitals did, but Ijust wanted to make sure that it
was good.
Dani (11:05):
Yeah.
Lisa (11:06):
So I started giving out PSI, recognizing just how much
of a powerhouse in the perinatalworld that PSI was and still
is.
And I was very curious becauseI love serving this population.
So I actually startedvolunteering on the English
helpline.
And that's how I made my wayinto the PSI world, is through
(11:31):
volunteering.
Emily (11:32):
I have a question.
Oo, oo, oo!
Dani (11:34):
Uh, Emily.
All right.
So I'm gonna go on a limb andsay, because you said you have
your PMHC that you've, like,gone to a PSI training at some
point.
Um, that's not really a limb.
Lisa (11:46):
Yes.
You have to do that in order toget the training, guys.
What was the order though?
Like, did you, you were like,oh, I found PSI.
I'm interested in helping,helpline and then training, or
was it like I've gone to atraining and now I really want
to get involved and volunteer onthe helpline?
It was helpline first.
Emily (12:06):
Oh yeah.
Dani (12:07):
Very cool.
Lisa (12:08):
And then it was like, what training could I not take?
I've taken components of care.
I mean, this is now years ago,but I did the Maternal Mental
Health Now.
Dani (12:19):
Oh.
Oh yeah.
Is that like the webinar series, kind of?
Lisa (12:23):
Mm-hmm.
I did and still do a lot oftrainings because the
information, the language, theresearch is always updating, and
our PSI training departmentdoes such an incredible job of
keeping up on that.
Emily (12:39):
We're trendy.
Lisa (12:40):
Yeah, trendy, very much so.
So I like to go back and notonly refresh, but also, you
know, there's so much more that,you know, we're learning every
day.
So I started as a helplinevolunteer on the English
helpline.
Emily (12:53):
So you worked with people, then you Googled us, and
then you were like, I wouldlike to help.
And then you were like, I'mgonna learn everything.
And so you took, like, all thetrainings on the planet.
Lisa (13:08):
Yes.
Emily (13:09):
Okay.
Then what happened?
Lisa (13:11):
This is where it gets really magical for me because I
was, and I remember, I have nota great memory, but I remember
this and remember a lot of PSIthings very vividly just because
it feels very invisible string,if I might say.
Dani (13:28):
Oh.
I think our memories also workreally well when we feel safe.
And PSI is really good atmaking people feel safe.
Lisa (13:35):
I love that.
Dani (13:36):
Oh.
Here comes the tears.
Oh!
Sorry!
Emily, not yet!
Emily (13:43):
Oops.
Lisa (13:44):
Okay, so again, this is where it's really weird talking
about myself.
So did all the trainings, andthen I'm volunteering, and I'm
just like, oh, I really likethis.
I really, really, really likethis.
I love working in thisparticular space of helpline.
Dani (14:01):
Yeah.
Lisa (14:01):
I love working bedside and at hospitals and also
connecting with people in like atherapeutic space, where
there's something very beautifulabout helpline work.
And so I'm volunteering on thehelpline, the English helpline.
And the previous manager hadsent out an email just like, is
anybody, you know, kind ofknowledgeable in emergency or
(14:24):
crisis response or somethinglike that?
Or is any, is anybody like aprofessional?
That's what it was.
So the previous manager reachedout, sent an email to all of
the volunteers on the helplineand was like, is anybody, you
know, a professional?
And so I responded back.
And that was a pivotal, pivotalmoment.
That was kind of– that was it,where I was able to go into a
(14:47):
contract position to be aperinatal crisis response
person.
So on the safety assessmentside, whether it's the helpline
or any of the programs, whetherit's in groups, if someone is
showing, or telling, orexpressing anything of concern
for their safety, or in a spacewhere it's not really where PSI
(15:10):
provides that peer support.
Dani (15:12):
Like in an emergency situation.
Lisa (15:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Like we're not an emergencyservice.
We never have been, but there'sthis additional step of acuity
of assessment or justrecognizing like-
This really actually seems likenot a warmline situation, but
more of possibly a hotlinesituation.
More hotline, yeah.
And also like someone justbeing comfortable in that space
(15:38):
in a professional sense ofrecognizing certain questions to
ask, how to ask it.
The National Maternal MentalHealth Hotline did not exist at
that time.
And so there was a pocket therewhere there was nothing there.
At least on the PSI side ofthings, there was a gap that
they really truly recognizedthat they wanted to fill, just–
(16:01):
intrusive thoughts is, you know,very normal for human beings,
but in the perinatal period, it,you know, really, you know,
steps forward.
So I'd been doing the work fora while.
This is also while doing afull-time job, like, at another
organization.
So I was doing full-time work,and then contracting for PSI,
and being like, I love this.
Emily (16:22):
Right.
Lisa (16:22):
I want more of this.
Dani (16:23):
I want this!
I like this.
Uh-huh.
Lisa (16:26):
Love it, love it, love it.
So I sent an email to executivedirector Wendy Davis and let
her know, just like, I'm reallyloving this work.
Dani (16:36):
Oh, Lisa.
I mean, I had to tell somebody,like, it's amazing.
So I sent her an email.
I'm just like, I just want tolet you know that I love this.
And just, like, keep me in,like, the farthest part of your
mind if, like, anything, youknow, is ever happening in any
way.
Like, I love this.
(16:57):
I just want to let you knowthat.
You know, people don't always send emails like that.
Like, we often reach out topeople if like, there's a
problem, something's not goingwell.
So, like, that's really greatthat you took the time to say,
hey, FYI, I just want to let youknow, I'm loving this.
Emily (17:12):
It's brave.
Dani (17:13):
Yeah.
Lisa (17:14):
Well, thank you.
I think that Wendy andeverybody at PSI's staff makes
it easy to send those emails.
Dani (17:23):
You're not thinking, like, oh my gosh, I wonder how this
is going to be received.
Like, am I going to get fired?
Am I, like, is this weird?
Emily (17:29):
Right.
Lisa (17:30):
I didn't think about that at all.
No, no, no.
I was like, I'm really, I'mreally, really loving this.
I'm finding a lot of purpose inthis.
I'm finding a lot of somethingin this.
And I just want you to knowthat.
And if there's, you know, justsharing that with you.
And little did I know that theNational Maternal Mental Health
(17:51):
Hotline was just a whisper atthat moment.
But I'm glad I sent that email,because when it was no longer a
whisper and it was actual, youknow, a reality, something that
PSI, Wendy, the perinatalcommunity et al.
had been wishing for forever tobe in existence.
(18:14):
PSI got the contract for thehotline.
And yeah, so I was the clinicalsupervisor of the National
Maternal Mental Health Hotlinefor just over two years.
Dani (18:25):
Incredible.
Lisa (18:26):
Started that up.
Wild.
I know.
Emily (18:30):
Like, part of the startup.
I was there at the groundfloor.
Yeah.
Lisa (18:34):
It was not in existence.
And then there it was.
And, so grateful and fortunate.
And I don't know how.
I mean, I have some ideas.
Dani (18:46):
Yeah, I think we have some ideas.
You are– okay, We're gonna haveto toot Lisa's horn.
She's very skilled at what shedoes, you know.
Emily (18:52):
Toot-toot.
And you are a wonderful human.
Of course, they would want you.
Hello?
Lisa (18:57):
That is very kind.
Emily (18:58):
And true!
Lisa (18:59):
And I am receiving that.
Dani (19:01):
This is me receiving it.
Lisa (19:05):
This is to the best of my ability.
Emily (19:07):
You're doing great.
Lisa (19:08):
Thank you.
Dani (19:11):
Right, Marlo?
Marlo's Lisa's dog.
Lisa (19:15):
Yeah.
I'm very, very honored to be inthis role that I am in now.
I am very honored and gratefulthat a chair was pulled out for
me to be at the table and tosupport help seekers, let alone
be at the table of the creationof such a pivotal, historic,
(19:37):
life-saving service.
Yeah, just incredible,absolutely incredible.
So I am grateful every singleday, and that has never left,
and it's right in front of meevery single day.
So yeah, I was a contractor andthen moved into the space of
hotline work.
And so helpline, hotline, andthen...
(19:58):
And then?
And, well, now I'm in a spaceof– it's really full circle.
So I am managing the helplinethat I volunteered for and where
all of this really began.
Dani (20:11):
Isn't that wild?
Lisa (20:12):
I can't say how grateful I am and to be working with such
a kind, wonderful team ofvolunteers, and staff, and
colleagues that allow us to showup as our genuine selves in
these spaces is really importantto me in a workspace.
(20:32):
And so it doesn't feel like I'mworking.
That feels weird to even say.
I mean, it is my job, but-
Yeah.
I'm really able to supportothers in supporting others and
hopefully creating and mirroringa space that Carrie Banks
creates and then...
Emily (20:50):
Shout out to Carrie, call us.
Dani (20:52):
Who's Carrie Banks?
For anybody listening.
Who that?
Lisa (20:55):
So Carrie is my boss, very kind, kind person who is the
director of all of our peersupport services.
And so she creates the spacethat allows us to be our genuine
self and fiercely advocatingfor our perinatal families, as
well, at the same time.
And-
Dani (21:13):
Shout out to Carrie Banks.
Lisa (21:15):
Hi, Carrie.
Emily (21:16):
Call us.
You're next.
Lisa (21:20):
See you soon, Carrie.
So yeah, I just, I can't dothis work without the space and
the permission to show upgenuinely.
So our volunteers are showingup genuinely, and our help
seekers are received by folksthat feel as safe as they can.
Nothing is 100% safe, but it'sa space where you could show up
(21:40):
as yourself.
At least I can.
Dani (21:42):
Amazing.
Love the, like, the full circleexperience from the
professional side.
Emily (21:47):
So showing up as your whole genuine human self in a
space that is so often heldmostly by people who have the
lived experience of– like, weall have imposter syndrome when
we think that, like, you know,why is someone asking me my
opinion on this?
Or like, am I enough of anauthority to have an opinion?
(22:10):
Like-
I have an idea about this.
Should I offer it up?
Right.
Dani (22:14):
I don't know.
Emily (22:14):
What does that look like and feel like for you?
Because we are your biggestfans.
So clearly it doesn't botherus.
Does it bother you?
Lisa (22:25):
Well, I first want to just share and expand upon what I
was just saying.
So I have a colleague, MelissaBentley, who has been on your
podcast.
This is a magic wand that shesent to a lot of PSI staff that
are in our helpline coordinatorfamily because we work so
(22:46):
closely together with ourprograms.
And so I don't know why I'mjust gravitating towards this
and holding my emotional supportmagical wand.
So I have colleagues that, youknow, are so kind, and
intentional, and supportive, andreally, really care.
Emily (23:03):
Yes.
Lisa (23:04):
I think whether it's this work or whether it's anybody
else who's experiencing impostersyndrome, I feel like it's– I
think it's a normal humanexperience.
Just in general.
I think, I remember graduatingand I'm like, I'm a social
worker now?
Like, how is that?
Emily (23:24):
How do I do it?
Am I social working yet?
Dani (23:26):
Am I doing it?
Lisa (23:28):
What do I do with my hands?
You know?
Dani (23:30):
I know!
I don't know.
So I think imposter syndrome isprevalent regardless of the
work that people are doing.
Yes.
Lisa (23:39):
I just want to say that because I see that and feel
that.
And also I think being in asupportive space where you're–
the word isn't allowed, likeyou're given the opportunity to
be yourself has made this workand the imposter syndrome feel a
little bit smaller.
Emily (23:56):
Yeah.
Lisa (23:57):
Like it's not entirely always gone.
Dani (24:01):
Oh yeah.
Lisa (24:02):
It shifts and moves and looks different every day.
Like I woke up today, theimposter syndrome was very large
and woke up right in my face.
Dani (24:11):
Oh.
Right! I wasn't sure if we weregonna talk about this while we
were– because we kind ofmentioned it before we hit
record.
Lisa (24:19):
Yeah, it was there.
It was there.
Dani (24:21):
I was also like, hey, P.S.
I'm nervous every single time Ihit record.
Like, am I gonna mess this up?
Is this the last episode of thepodcast?
Like, I'm not a therapist, butI do have lived experience.
You are totally a provider.
And one thing we talked aboutbefore Lisa said, yeah, let's
(24:42):
record an episode.
She said, um, but I don't havekids, so I don't know, like, I
don't know if I have anything totalk about.
Like, I don't know if I shoulddo an episode.
I could talk about thehelpline, but I don't have,
like, lived experiences.
But we were like, yes, you do,because you support folks in the
perinatal period all the time.
All of our stories aredifferent.
(25:02):
I have supported folks in theperinatal period.
I have been somebody who neededhelp in the perinatal period,
but I have never provided thistype of support, like with the
education that you do,specializing, like, in
supporting folks.
We all have different livedexperience, whether it's
personal or professional, we allhave stories to tell.
Anyway, so you were a littlebit nervous, weren't you, Lisa?
Lisa (25:25):
I was, right?
Like, woke up this morning,like the imposter syndrome felt
heavy, smack in my face, andacknowledging that, not judging
it, not blaming myself, justkind of noticing that it's
there, and then moving about myday and being in a space where I
feel like I'm just talking toreally great people and friends
(25:47):
and colleagues has, honestly,like I feel like it's this small
at the moment.
You know, it's still there,right?
But it like moves and shifts,and, like, if I'm in different
environments, or differentspaces, or I walk outside, like,
it just– it's there, it's apart, it's a part that's there.
I think acknowledging it makesit feel less empowered.
Emily (26:11):
Yes.
Lisa (26:12):
Being here at PSI, being in this conversation with y'all,
I feel like it's there.
I can see it, it's a partthat's there, but there are
other parts, right?
There's other parts that showup that can step forward in that
moment and then, you know, stepback.
Emily (26:27):
Yes.
And what I think is so cool isyou in supervising– do we say
supervising volunteers?
I mean, really, you're justtheir biggest fan, right?
Like, with the volunteers thatyou work with on the helpline,
some of them come to you andwill say, I'm sure, but I'm just
a mom, or I'm just a dad.
(26:48):
I'm not a therapist.
Dani says it all the time whenwe're talking to folks.
And we all have that likeimposter syndrome voice that
sometimes attempts to, like,diminish the fact that we have
an opinion, or that we mightkind of be a little bit of an
expert and we should speak up,or that we do have a story to
(27:09):
tell.
Dani (27:09):
Yeah.
Emily (27:09):
Or that we can help people without a degree in a
thing that says we can helppeople, right?
Like you can be just a mom andan accountant, or just a dad and
an accountant and be on thehelpline as a volunteer.
Lisa (27:21):
I think it's the collective, right?
I think a lot of this workisn't done in isolation and
isn't done alone.
So it's the collective peoplethat are showing up.
It's the volunteer, and thenit's the coordinator, and then
it's the group facilitator forthe online support group, it's
(27:42):
the therapist, it's thephysician, it's the doula, it's
the lactation consultant, it'sthe family, it's the friend.
It's not on one person and itnever should be.
This work and showing up forpeople within this time was a
village, like a literal village.
It was a community of peoplecoming together, and it looks
(28:04):
different now based off of, youknow, industrial revolution and,
you know, stuff like that, andmoving to cities, and technology
allowing us to move indifferent places of the world,
right?
So support looks different, andat the core, who are the
helpers that are coming forward?
Who are the trusted individualswhen somebody needs something?
(28:27):
And PSI is a collective villageof people, and skills, and
experiences that help seekerscan tap into if they want to.
Emily (28:41):
Yes.
Lisa (28:42):
There are options resource-wise, and there's
different people that areshowing up for families.
And I like to say, at least inmy own story, that yes, the
imposter syndrome is there, butmy cardiologist doesn't have to
have a heart attack for them totreat me for the heart attack.
Dani (29:02):
Dang!
Emily (29:03):
Yep.
There might be somecardiologists that have had
heart attacks.
Dani (29:07):
Or maybe they had a family member who had a heart attack.
Or maybe they're just like, Imean, they are an expert–
Emily (29:13):
At heart attacks.
At a heart attacks.
At not having a heart attack,but helping people who have
that.
How'd we get here?
This is a great analogy,though.
Lisa (29:22):
I don't know how we got here.
I don't know.
Dani (29:26):
This is great.
No-
This is it.
You're hitting the nail on thehead, Lisa.
Lisa (29:29):
It's an option, right?
Like you can have patients orclients reach out to the office
and be like, hey, has mycardiologist ever had a heart
attack before?
Like, inquiring minds need toknow.
Yeah.
Like, in order to get theservice, and– you can.
You have that option.
(29:50):
The flip side of this coin,this is funny, but it's like
there are lots of pregnantfolks, or thinking about someday
being pregnant folks, or peoplewho possess a uterus and need
to go to an OBGYN who would liketo see someone else who
possesses the equipment, right?
Like, how many people say, Iwant my OBGYN to be a woman or
(30:12):
my midwife I'd like my midwifeto be a woman.
And I will tell you I was thatperson and then the male midwife
who delivered my two VBACbabies was, like, more qualified
than all the women.
Dani (30:24):
Dang.
Emily (30:24):
He did a good job.
Anyway.
Dani (30:26):
Shout out.
David Paad.
Oh, shout out David, hey!
Yep.
Yeah.
It's an option, right?
Like, when seeking support,whether it's peer support,
whether it's for professionalsupport for a therapist or even
for a doctor, everybody has theright to choose a provider that
feels right for them.
(30:47):
And they should.
Absolutely.
The thing is options, I lovehaving options, and knowing
myself, and, like, what I canchoose from.
What is the menu of options Ihave?
One of the options is aprovider that doesn't look like
me, you know, doesn't hold thesame beliefs.
That might be helpful.
There are providers and optionsthat look like me that have the
(31:11):
same, you know, values.
That's an option a providerthat has had the exact same
experience that I do, that's anoption, and there's the option
of a provider that hasn'tnavigated their own perinatal
journey for any host of reasons,that's an option too.
Yeah.
But we need more mental healthsupport, we need more people at
(31:32):
the table, we need more village.
Yeah.
Boom!
Mic drop.
Periodt.
Why not?
Why not?
Emily (31:40):
Exactly.
Thanks for being brave.
I mean, it's like, uh, it'slike this kind of worry that's
kind of, sometimes, like,hidden.
People don't want to, like, saythe things out loud, but thanks
for talking about impostersyndrome with us.
I do want to say, too– that forany providers, therapists,
(32:01):
lactation consultants, doulas,anybody who's in the support and
caring role– that you are notalone if you are not in that
time of your life.
If you are choosing to remainkiddo free, if you are going
through a journey of post -lossand the world doesn't see that
(32:23):
you have, you know, a kiddophysically with you.
Dani (32:26):
Yep.
Lisa (32:27):
Anybody who's showing up in the space, there is a chair
at the table, because youmatter, your voice matters, and
your kindness matters.
I just want to say that, too,because I'm sure that there's at
least one other provider outthere in this perinatal space
that is, you know, in the samechair that I'm in and please
(32:48):
feel free to to join, because weneed more helpers.
Dani (32:51):
Yeah.
We heart you, we need you.
We all need each other, we needto hear from each other, and we
need to support each other ifwe are feeling compelled, like,
this is what we're supposed tobe doing, then that's what you
should be doing.
You followed what felt right toyou, Lisa, and you are
providing such incrediblesupport to folks and making such
a huge difference for folks inthe perinatal period, and,
selfishly, you're such a lovelyfriend and we are lucky to work
(33:14):
with you.
Emily (33:16):
Okay.
Sorry!
How about a lightning round,guys?
Dani (33:19):
Okay.
Lisa, are you ready for alightning round?
Emily (33:23):
What do you think?
Lisa (33:24):
I think so, I'll try my best.
Okay! No pressure, because thisdoesn't really go fast, but, I
mean, there's always a firsttime.
Okay, um [gibberish] justkidding.
I'm not gonna talk really fast.
Lisa, obviously besides thispodcast, what's your second
favorite podcast?
Because we're number one.
Yeah second favorite is Coach Bennett's podcast.
Dani (33:47):
What?
It's literally called CoachBennett's podcast.
He is the Nike head coach.
So he does guided runs on theirNike app.
Oh!
Emily (34:00):
Oh.
It's completely free, so...
Oh, God, you guys are gonnatalk about running now.
Emily, stay with us! We haven'teven gotten to this,
Lisa (34:12):
Yeah.
you've done all kinds of runsthis year.
So, it feels like I've done a lot of runs.
I did a lot of, like trainingruns.
I don't mean you are an ultramarathoner.
No, I'm not.
I will run away from a bear ortowards nachos and that's it! So
anyone who's running more thanthat is a runner to me.
(34:34):
Okay?
So I just want to say, Emily,that per coach Bennett, a runner
doesn't always have to berunning, right?
Like if you've run once you'rea runner, and then, also,
running is just taking flight.
Dani (34:49):
Oh.
So we're all runners.
Okay.
I stand corrected.
Hate to break it to you, butyou're a runner.
Everybody's a runner, they'reeither just not running at the
moment or they're running.
Emily (35:02):
I prefer to identify as swimmer.
Lisa (35:04):
Ooh, yeah that's right, you're a swimmer!
Yeah.
Okay, Emily's stolen the thelightning round.
What are you currently bingewatching, reading, or listening
to?
What needs to be in my queue?
I need a new, like, Netflixand chill kind of thing.
Or Audible, or, I mean, Libby.
Whatever.
(35:25):
So I am watching a few things.
One is Outlander.
I love Outlander.
Dani (35:32):
Me too. I love it.
So Netflix came out with thepart one recently.
Oh yeah.
But we couldn't wait so we gotStars just to watch the part two
of Outlander.
Yeah!
So, watching that, I alsore-watched Outlander because I
love time travel.
Like, I'm a big time travelnerd.
(35:54):
Back to the Future?
Love– I have a little Back tothe Future, like, little
figurine thing.
I have a poster in myapartment.
It's a whole thing, I love timetravel.
Sorry, Emily, just move over a second- I didn't know
that we shared this.
I'm kidding, Emily likes timetravel too.
Emily (36:11):
I do.
Dani (36:11):
She does.
Love time travel.
Emily (36:13):
I am broader in my time travel than Dani is.
Like, I'm like, Doctor Who?
Absolutely.
Like, episodes of Star Trekwhere there's a time loop?
Absolutely.
I am deep-
Space.
Yeah, because I like sci-fi.
And time travel and sci-fi canoften, but not always go hand in
hand.
Sometimes it could be magic,I'm into that too, so.
(36:36):
Yeah
There's love though, inOutlander.
What is this anti-lovenarrative you have about me?
Like, I don't understand.
Dani (36:43):
Anyway, okay.
So Outlander.
Outlander, okay.
what else?
Watching Blood of my Blood,which is the prequel to
Outlander.
That's new.
Emily (36:53):
It's in my, like, you should watch this.
I'm like, okay.
Lisa (36:56):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm dabbling with that.
I've been watching The Summer ITurned Pretty.
Oh, is that a show, a TV show,or a movie?
TV show, a lot of Taylor Swift songs are in there and
it's based off of a book, sobeen watching that.
It's also a way that I've beenconnecting with my nieces.
(37:16):
Oh!
So a lot of my Taylor Swiftlove is, like, for my nieces,
and connecting back, and, like,talking about the Easter eggs
and then–
Oh yeah.
Yeah, it's so good.
And then the book that I'm justabout done with that I don't
want to let go of is anotherthing that I've been connecting
back with my niece.
It's a book series that shereally loves and so wanted to
(37:40):
read it too.
So the series is by ChloeWalsh, it's very teen, like,
young adult.
I'm listening.
Which is also Summer I Turned Pretty, it's more on the
teenish side.
Dani (37:52):
Yeah.
It's called, the first book iscalled Binding 13, the second
one's called Keeping 13.
I've been reading that toconnect back with my nieces.
Emily (38:01):
Cool.
You know what?
This is a great recommendationbecause sometimes it's kind of
cool, like, are your nieces intheir teens or are they like–
Yeah, my oldest is just, it'sunbelievable, but oldest niece
is a freshman in high school
Dani (38:15):
Oh.
Are you okay?
No I'm not okay.
I am not okay.
And then the second niece juststarted middle school.
Okay, cool.
That is actually really cool,because I don't know that we've
had any recommendations for,like, something that's enjoyable
for adults, and then also,like, is kind of a cool way to
connect with those tweenagers,teenagers and tweenagers, you
(38:38):
know?
That's cool, thanks.
Lisa (38:39):
Just to say, for those books, like, there are some,
like, really heavy.
Like, usually what adults wouldkind of go through narrative.
So just kind of pinning that,they're–
Like, they should come with atrigger warning is what you're
saying.
Dani (38:55):
It's just not super light.
Lisa (38:57):
It's not light.
The character's point of viewin the first two books, they're
going through a lot of– lot ofheavy things, so.
Dani (39:05):
Really cool though if you're reading that at the same
time as somebody in your lifethat's like a teen or something
and, like, you can have, like,your, like, little bonding,
like, book clubby, like, oh mygosh what did you think about
this thing that they're goingthrough so it's like, kind of
like a cool thing that you can–you know, any opportunity to
chat with teens about important,like, big topics and it's not,
(39:27):
like, putting a spotlight onthem specifically, but you could
be talking kind of broadlylike...
Emily (39:32):
About a fictional character.
Yeah, so that there's nopersonal attack.
That's very cool.
Lisa (39:38):
It's awesome.
Like, it's been a great story,but then also being able to just
find connections with, like,the people that you love in your
world.
Dani (39:47):
Amazing.
What is one thing that you aregoing to do today to show
yourself a little radical love?
That's a tough question.
I think this.
Aw, Lisa, thanks! This doesfeel radical because, just to
let everybody know, this is thesecond episode we've recorded
(40:10):
with Lisa today, so we got tohang out with Lisa longer than
we normally do with podcastguests.
So this is– we got a nicelittle chunk of time this
afternoon.
Lisa (40:20):
Not long enough though.
Dani (40:21):
I know.
Emily (40:22):
It'll never be long enough.
That's why all the rest of theepisodes are with Lisa.
Spoiler! Just kidding.
Well now the podcast just gotweird.
I'm the third co-host now.
Okay.
Cool!
Lisa (40:34):
That'd be fun.
Do you think that you and Icould get Dani to tell her
story, if we co-hosted herepisode?
Yeah.
We'll talk more.
I'll tell anything to atherapist so I guess it's on.
Basically.
Like I'm like, can Iinterview you, and she's like I
don't trust you!
(40:54):
I did not say that.
No, you did not say that.
I just had imposter syndrome.
Anyway.
Feel that.
Emily, ask her about a timemachine.
She's into time travel.
Emily (41:05):
Time travel! Okay, first of all, what does the machine
look like and second of all ifyou could go back in time– I
want to go to the period of timewhere you weren't sure, like
that imposter was real loud.
What would you tell yourself?
Like what did you need to knowto be like shh.
This wasn't on the list and wethrew it in a lightning round.
Lisa (41:28):
No, no, no.
So I naturally think of themachine as a car.
Dani (41:33):
Oh.
Because Back to the Future.
Yeah.
I'm going 88.
You don't need roads.
Where you're going...
All (41:38):
You don't need roads!
So good, so good.
I was in the car the other dayand I think, there was no
traffic which is shocking, and Ithink I reached 88 I'm like is
something gonna happen?
Emily (41:57):
This is a uniquely LA thing to think, because
everywhere else we could get to88.
Dani (42:04):
Lisa's gonna stick the speed limit from now on.
Don't worry.
I always go speed limit.
So I go 88, like, that one timeand I'm just like what?
What's gonna happen?
Okay, so yeah, DeLorean, going88, then it's 89 and you're
somewhere else.
If I'm going back to a time–
When the imposter was just so loud.
Lisa (42:24):
I mean, that could have been this morning.
Emily (42:28):
Okay.
How'd you help yourself gethere?
Knowing who I was going to bein the room with made it
possible.
Dani (42:36):
Oh.
Emily (42:37):
That's so good.
Lisa (42:39):
I think it's who you surround yourself with, as well.
Having your own village whileyou're doing the work is really
important.
So whenever something comes up,whether it's imposter syndrome,
whether it's you're feelingactivated, or whether you need
somebody to lean on, it's havinga plan at least for me of,
(43:00):
like, who do I go to for what,if I'm feeling A, B, or C.
And again, having options.
So I think options is reallyempowering for me.
I don't know if that answersyour question.
Emily (43:12):
It does, it does.
Because this question is often,what would you say to
pre-recovery you?
And if we apply, which I reallythink we should because your
wisdom is, like, spot on, thisthat you've just said.
It's like, you don't know whoyou haven't met yet.
Like, you don't know who'sabout to be in your village.
So come this way.
(43:34):
Call, text, fill out that formon PSI's website.
You don't know who you haven'tmet yet.
It really is the coolest clubthat none of us wanted to join.
None of us knew that we wouldend up here doing this.
It's the best.
I think Emily gets to ask herother favorite question and then
I'll ask about some deets.
(43:55):
Okay.
How do you take your water?
Dani (43:57):
Yeah, we need to make sure you're staying hydrated, Lisa.
Bubbles, no bubbles, flavor,ice, room temperature?
Depends.
Yes!
Lisa (44:05):
Depends, it depends.
She likes options!
I'm into options.
So this is room temperaturewater in a large container,
that's one of the options.
If it's hot out I take it withice.
Ice, ice, baby, yeah.
Ever any bubbles?
This is controversial.
No, I don't do bubbles.
(44:26):
I don't do bubbles.
Okay.
Why not?
Do they make your nose tickle,do they make you burp-y, what's
happening?
I don't know, I never think about it.
I feel like bubbles is reallyfancy.
Dani (44:37):
Oh.
I don't know.
I've always associated, like,bubbly water with, like, fancy
and I'm just like not fancy.
Emily (44:43):
I think you're very fancy, this is so funny to me.
Dani (44:46):
You know what's really funny is I was like, oh my gosh,
Lisa's looking all cute.
Look at this, I'm wearing thislong sleeve shirt from the
college I went to.
Right?
My hair– yeah, mm-hmm.
I'm not fancy one bit friends.
Speaking of imposter syndrome: all of us. (44:58):
undefined
This is just–
Right.
But if I'm running,
Dani (45:04):
Oh.
if I'm running, my good friendwho got me into running–
Do you want to give a shoutout?
Her name is TJ.
Hey TJ!
She is the person that you wantin your village for any and all
things.
She's an incredible friend.
I have a lot of incrediblefriends, she's the one that got
me into running, which is whyI'm talking about her.
Okay.
Lisa's like, oh no, now I needto name all of them.
(45:26):
Shout out!
Emily (45:28):
Okay, this is not the Oscars.
We're gonna cue the- that'sexactly what I was thinking,
we're gonna cue the music, justnames are gonna like roll up on
the screen, all of Lisa's verybest friends.
You get to talk about your one running friend, that's
it.
Go.
Lisa (45:43):
Yes, yes, yes.
So TJ, who I also playedsoftball with up in Portland, we
play softball together on ourteam, shout out to Slims.
Oh!
So TJ, during my half marathontraining, which I will never do
again.
It's my first and my last halfmarathon.
(46:06):
Like, that is quite enough.
She recommended some type of, like, salt, like flavored
salt to go in the water becauseyou're sweating so much.
Like electrolyte replenishmentkind of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
So if I am running, I will geartowards that.
So that's how I take the water,yeah.
(46:26):
Okay.
Well, you heard it here first: how do you take your water? (46:26):
undefined
It depends.
Emily (46:30):
It depends.
And that's okay.
And Lisa thinks she's notfancy, I mean that's really
breaking news.
Like–
Do I give off fancy?
Yes.
In a approachable way.
Like, not like fancy like, ohmy gosh I couldn't talk to her,
but like, oh my gosh she is sojust, like...
(46:52):
Lisa looks very confused.
I need to narrate.
I don't want to say puttogether, because I- she's like,
what?
She is perplexed.
Lisa (47:03):
I really am.
Like, put togetherauthentically.
I think put together can feellike you're just sort of trying
to, like, make a look.
Not in a look everything'sfine.
Fine, fine, fine.
Like, I think that's why youfeel fancy, because you feel
like you're like, I'm gonna takesome time, I'm gonna do a thing
for myself that I need.
That is what you exude and Ithink that's why you feel fancy
(47:27):
to me.
Dani (47:28):
What can we say?
Lisa (47:29):
I think I need bubbled water.
Dani (47:31):
I'm just saying
With bubbles.
Lisa (47:34):
Okay.
Dani (47:36):
Hey, that's my beverage of choice at the PSI conference,
you know.
See me walking around withsparkling water with a lime
wedge.
That's what's up
Love it.
I'll try that too, I don'tthink I've had that.
Okay.
Anyway! Well, this was a veryquick lightning round.
Per usual!
Lisa, we've covered so much intoday's episode.
If anything at all resonatedwith folks listening and they
(47:59):
would like to get a hold of you,would you like to give a way
for folks to get a hold of you,like your social security
number, like do you want to giveme your credit card info?
Maybe your email address, Idon't know, you feel comfortable
with any of that or?
Okay.
Absolutely-
Did you fall off your chair,Emily?
Emily (48:18):
Okay.
Emily's chair is broken.
You have to understand, this chair is a great chair,
except for the fact that at somewildly unpredictable interval,
it falls backwards, and Ibelieve that I am going to fall
all the way over, and my legsare gonna be, like, straight up,
(48:40):
right?
Like, I'm gonna be like woop!
So you just lean back in thechair a little bit, and then
your chair did that thing whereit kind of broke, and Lisa's
eyeballs got big.
Her dog's on her lap now, veryconcerned, Marlo is not sure.
She's like, my mom's not okay.
She can see Lisa looks veryconcerned.
Anyway, Emily's fine, ifanybody is listening very
concerned.
(49:00):
Marlo is all right, Lisa'sfine, I'm fine.
We were worried.
Everybody haul, everybody good?
Also, Dani, your laugh, whenyou reach that one, when you
reach the point of, like, it'sso funny.
It's so funny.
Yes if folks want to reach me,so my PSI email is Lisa
(49:25):
L-I-S-A-Z atpostpartum.net. [Marlo barks]
Dani (49:30):
Marlo, we're not asking about your email address.
If you'd like to talk to Marlo,Marlo's email address is Marlo
at postpartum.net– just kidding,don't email, the dog doesn't
have an email address.
That's not a real email addressit's not going anywhere.
Lisa Z at postpartum.net we will put that in the show
notes along with links to allthe other amazing things that we
(49:51):
talked about today.
Emily, can you take us out?
I would love to.
Okay.
Lisa, aside from being thefanciest person that we know,
you are the only person, otherthan Wendy, who I would describe
as having a voice that feelslike sunshine.
Oh.
Emily (50:12):
Uh-oh, I'm having a feeling, okay! Emily I didn't
know you were gonna say that,oh.
You are so caring and sowonderful and so kind that
talking to you really does feelwarm and that is why you do what
you do.
And you are such a gift to allof us thanks for sharing your
story.
Lisa (50:29):
Thank you for allowing us to be here today.
Welcome to the I Am One Podcast.
On today's episode, we'resitting down with one of the
loveliest humans on this planet,Lisa Zeitlin.
She's a perinatal mental healthcertified, licensed clinical
social worker hailing from theCity of Angels, Los Angeles,
California, and is currentlyPSI's English Language HelpLine
and Intervention Manager.
(00:20):
We'll chat all about theimportance of having different
care options, creating spacesthat feel safe for help seekers,
and imposter syndrome, which isa real thing, even among
providers.
It was a pleasure to hear howLisa's professional experience
led her to all of the incrediblework she's doing to support
folks now at PSI.
(00:41):
So without any further ado,please sit back, relax, and
enjoy this episode with ourfriend, Lisa.
Lisa, welcome to the podcaststudio.
We are absolutely thrilled tobe sitting with the one and only
Lisa Zeitlin! Let's hear it.
I'm just kidding.
This is not a game show.
But we sometimes pretend to beone.
(01:03):
Anyway.
Lisa (01:04):
I love game shows, so I'm here for it.
Dani (01:06):
Okay.
Um, let's not even do a podcastepisode then.
Let's just do a game showtoday.
Lisa (01:11):
Done.
Keeping our listeners on theirtoes.
Just kidding.
This is the highlight of ourday today.
The highlight of our week, thehighlight of our month.
No pressure.
No.
Uh, we just have to, you know,send some big love to you.
Every summer we get together.
Lisa works at PSI.
We'll get into that.
Emily (01:30):
Spoiler alert.
God, I'm so sorry, you guys.
This episode.
Dani (01:36):
It's so wonderful seeing all of our lovely colleagues
every summer at the PSIconference.
And the first time I see Lisaevery year, I'm like, I just
blurt her name out.
My arms open up.
I'm like, it's time for a hug.
So this is so lovely to get tosit in here and have my third
cup of coffee today.
Oh, my God.
(01:56):
Yeah, I know.
That's probably not a goodchoice.
But anyway, it's lovely tohave– oh, Powell's books!
Emily (02:03):
Cool.
I just shouted out randomly abookstore, um, for everybody
listening, if you're notwatching on YouTube, Lisa just
gave a cheers with her coffeemug, Powell's books, yeah.
Shout out.
You want to sponsor us,Powell's?
Just kidding.
We heart you.
If anybody needs a book, go toPowell's.
Anyway, Lisa, thank you so muchfor being here today.
Lisa (02:23):
No, no, no, no, no.
Thank you for having mebecause, like we said before we
were recording, this is for usto just hang, and chat, and just
be in the same space together.
Because, like you had said,physically at the PSI
conference, I mean, I justgravitate toward y'all.
Like I love spending time.
I love laughing with y'all.
(02:44):
I love-
Lots of laughing.
Just– I just love, love, love,love.
Time with you is kind oftherapeutic, you know?
Anyway.
Uh, everybody else that'slistening is, like, definitely a
fourth wheel right now.
Emily (02:57):
I feel like a third wheel right now.
It's kind of weird, like...
it's fine.
Lisa (03:04):
I love both of y'all so, so much.
Emily (03:07):
We love you too! I'm just so, so thankful to get to be
here and just chat.
Dani (03:12):
Well, Lisa, with that, could you give us a little bit
of an introduction to who youare?
Lisa (03:18):
So I first and foremost just want to say that unless I'm
in therapy myself, I'm reallynot talking about myself.
Dani (03:25):
Yes, this is weird, right?
Is this really weird?
I'm just gonna throw that outthere, just kind of, like, pin
that, make that known.
So I will now talk aboutmyself, which is odd.
Emily (03:35):
You're doing great.
Dani (03:36):
Yeah, I haven't even done an episode.
You're braver than me.
Lisa (03:40):
Thank you.
Thank you.
So I'm Lisa Zeitlin.
My pronouns are she/her.
I currently live on the WestCoast.
I'm living in Los Angeles,California.
It's where I was born andraised.
I am an Enneagram 2.
Dani (03:54):
Oh my gosh, I think I am too.
I don't know hardly anythingabout it.
Emily (03:57):
I don't even know what that is.
I'll Google it later.
Lisa (04:00):
Okay, yeah.
So Enneagram 2 is (04:00):
I don't connect with any, like my
astrological sign isSagittarius, but I don't think
it really, I don't know, itdoesn't quite hit the mark for
me.
Dani (04:13):
Oh.
Lisa (04:13):
So Enneagram 2, and then I am an INFJ.
Dani (04:17):
Did we talk about this before?
I think that's what I am.
Emily (04:20):
You are.
I am an ENFJ.
Yeah.
That's why this is magic.
So what you're saying is none of us are gonna read the
directions when we assemblesomething from IKEA, but we're
probably not gonna yell at eachother or lose any of the parts.
Lisa (04:36):
That is so absolutely accurate, and I've never felt
more seen.
Yes.
Dani (04:42):
I mean, is this a weird time to ask IKEA if they'd like
to sponsor the podcast?
I'm joking.
Emily (04:46):
They really should.
Parents with little kids...
Dani (04:51):
Need chairs.
And we're on a budget, so weneed flat pack, okay?
Like, hello?
It needs to fit in the van!
We need chairs...
Because the kids broke the legsoff the last one.
It's fine.
We're off– can I say off the rails?
Lisa (05:10):
Let me get us back, um...
Thanks, Lisa.
Again, I am not good at talking about myself, but I have
some prompts to bring me backbecause in conversation with
y'all, we can, like, really goand explore so many different
pockets of so many places.
So professionally, I am alicensed clinical social worker
(05:30):
in the state of California.
I have my master's in socialwork, I have a master's in
public health, and I have myPMHC through Postpartum Support
International.
And that's me professionally.
Emily (05:44):
Who are you personally?
Are you a Dodgers fan?
Dani (05:46):
Oh.
Lisa (05:47):
I am a very, very big Dodger fan.
Shout out to Kike, shout out tothe whole team.
Dani (05:54):
Okay.
Big fan.
I actually live, you know,pretty close to Dodgers Stadium
in this time in my life.
So I'm, you know, hoping to getto a few games this year.
Also, like, just plug if any Dodger, like, wants to hang
out, like, she lives close by.
So, you know.
Lisa (06:09):
Yeah.
Emily (06:09):
Or, like, any Dodger's partner needs a little support
emotionally.
Lisa (06:16):
Call me.
Helpline.
Emily (06:18):
Exactly.
Lisa (06:19):
Yeah.
So personally, love Dodgers.
I have a dog.
Her name is Marlo.
And um, she didn't have amiddle name, but we've given her
a middle name recently.
Marlo's full name is MarloTaylor Allison Swift Zeitlin.
Dani (06:37):
That is so cool.
I am also a large Swifty.
So if Taylor is, you know,listening, if she has her
earbuds in and hears this,hello.
I'm so proud of you.
Emily (06:49):
Midnights got me through my divorce.
Thank you.
Lisa (06:52):
Love Midnights.
So good.
Fantastic.
Dani (06:56):
Cool.
So that's me personally.
That's my dog.
That's my baseball team.
Emily (07:03):
Did I hear you have a dog?
Does that mean, are you akid-free human?
Should I be jealous of yourwhole life?
Lisa (07:12):
Yes.
Yes.
I am a kid-free human.
Dani (07:17):
Are you foreshadowing, Emily?
I'm sure we'll end up talkingabout this here in a little bit.
Emily (07:22):
Well, yeah.
I mean, I'm about to ask herwhat role perinatal mental
health has played in her life,personally and professionally.
And I'm thinking we're gonnahave a good story, so.
Lisa (07:33):
Well, I don't know if it's a good story.
Dani (07:36):
Spoiler alert, it is.
It's the story that I get tolive.
So I'm very grateful for that.
So yes, I am kid-free at themoment.
I came into this work ofperinatal mental health from the
professional door.
I was a social worker at ahospital for a few years in
(07:58):
downtown Los Angeles, servingthe Skid Row community primarily
and working on the OB, NICU,PEDs, antipartum, postpartum
floor.
Wow.
It's interesting because that'swhere, I feel like I was
professionally leading up tothat, but that's where it, like,
really smacked me in the faceof like, oh, I really love this.
(08:19):
But I had been serving andsupporting perinatal people
throughout my professionalcareer in graduate school, as
well.
So I was, before the hospital,during the hospital, I had a few
jobs just to get my licensinghours.
Was supporting families andpeople who were survivors of
domestic violence and sexualassault.
(08:40):
And so there are a lot ofparents that show up, just
naturally in that space.
So making that connection, kindof turning my head back and
being like, oh, I've lovedworking with perinatal people
and families for a long time.
And um, while I was working atthe hospital, I added another
(09:01):
hospital per diem work as asocial worker working
perinatally in another communityin LA.
And then I'm like, you knowwhat?
I really need to findresources.
Like, I want to make sure thatwhen patients are discharging,
they have a place or they theyhave a reputable resource that I
can give.
And I wanted to check that out.
So PSI, Postpartum SupportInternational, kept showing up.
(09:24):
And I'm like, what is this?
Why is that happening?
Like you Googled to find resources or you were getting
ads?
Lisa (09:32):
Yeah.
Getting ads...
Dani (09:34):
I don't know.
Is that what the kids aresaying these days?
I don't know.
Emily (09:38):
The ad comes into your feed and it's like, are you a
therapist?
Do you care deeply about peoplewho are...
matrescing?
That's probably not a verb, butI'm–
Would you like to sendresources to the most incredible
nonprofit serving the perinatalpopulation?
Then have I got a link for you.
That's a thought!
Lisa (09:57):
I do want to say that my Instagram probably thinks that I
am perinatal and for quite sometime now.
Emily (10:06):
So does mine.
Lisa (10:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Emily (10:08):
That ship sailed like 13 years ago.
Like, it's fine.
Lisa (10:13):
So the ads, if you're talking about ads, I my
Instagram like algorithm is spoton to a degree professionally.
Dani (10:22):
So like, here are some cute dogs, and the Dodgers, and
resources.
Lisa (10:27):
And Taylor.
Emily (10:28):
And Taylor!
Lisa (10:29):
Yeah.
Dani (10:30):
First, probably Taylor.
Emily (10:31):
Right now.
Lisa (10:32):
Right now, yeah.
Dani (10:33):
Yeah.
I mean, the news just hit acouple days ago, so.
Lisa (10:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's the algorithm,Taylor, dogs, baseball, PSI,
perinatal, yeah.
Dani (10:46):
Okay.
Lisa (10:46):
Yeah.
So back in the day I Googledand I think I wanna say this is
true, but I'm really not sure ifour resource list had
Postpartum SupportInternational.
I think it already might havehad it.
One of my hospitals did, but Ijust wanted to make sure that it
was good.
Dani (11:05):
Yeah.
Lisa (11:06):
So I started giving out PSI, recognizing just how much
of a powerhouse in the perinatalworld that PSI was and still
is.
And I was very curious becauseI love serving this population.
So I actually startedvolunteering on the English
helpline.
And that's how I made my wayinto the PSI world, is through
(11:31):
volunteering.
Emily (11:32):
I have a question.
Oo, oo, oo!
Dani (11:34):
Uh, Emily.
All right.
So I'm gonna go on a limb andsay, because you said you have
your PMHC that you've, like,gone to a PSI training at some
point.
Um, that's not really a limb.
Lisa (11:46):
Yes.
You have to do that in order toget the training, guys.
What was the order though?
Like, did you, you were like,oh, I found PSI.
I'm interested in helping,helpline and then training, or
was it like I've gone to atraining and now I really want
to get involved and volunteer onthe helpline?
It was helpline first.
Emily (12:06):
Oh yeah.
Dani (12:07):
Very cool.
Lisa (12:08):
And then it was like, what training could I not take?
I've taken components of care.
I mean, this is now years ago,but I did the Maternal Mental
Health Now.
Dani (12:19):
Oh.
Oh yeah.
Is that like the webinar series, kind of?
Lisa (12:23):
Mm-hmm.
I did and still do a lot oftrainings because the
information, the language, theresearch is always updating, and
our PSI training departmentdoes such an incredible job of
keeping up on that.
Emily (12:39):
We're trendy.
Lisa (12:40):
Yeah, trendy, very much so.
So I like to go back and notonly refresh, but also, you
know, there's so much more that,you know, we're learning every
day.
So I started as a helplinevolunteer on the English
helpline.
Emily (12:53):
So you worked with people, then you Googled us, and
then you were like, I wouldlike to help.
And then you were like, I'mgonna learn everything.
And so you took, like, all thetrainings on the planet.
Lisa (13:08):
Yes.
Emily (13:09):
Okay.
Then what happened?
Lisa (13:11):
This is where it gets really magical for me because I
was, and I remember, I have nota great memory, but I remember
this and remember a lot of PSIthings very vividly just because
it feels very invisible string,if I might say.
Dani (13:28):
Oh.
I think our memories also workreally well when we feel safe.
And PSI is really good atmaking people feel safe.
Lisa (13:35):
I love that.
Dani (13:36):
Oh.
Here comes the tears.
Oh!
Sorry!
Emily, not yet!
Emily (13:43):
Oops.
Lisa (13:44):
Okay, so again, this is where it's really weird talking
about myself.
So did all the trainings, andthen I'm volunteering, and I'm
just like, oh, I really likethis.
I really, really, really likethis.
I love working in thisparticular space of helpline.
Dani (14:01):
Yeah.
Lisa (14:01):
I love working bedside and at hospitals and also
connecting with people in like atherapeutic space, where
there's something very beautifulabout helpline work.
And so I'm volunteering on thehelpline, the English helpline.
And the previous manager hadsent out an email just like, is
anybody, you know, kind ofknowledgeable in emergency or
(14:24):
crisis response or somethinglike that?
Or is any, is anybody like aprofessional?
That's what it was.
So the previous manager reachedout, sent an email to all of
the volunteers on the helplineand was like, is anybody, you
know, a professional?
And so I responded back.
And that was a pivotal, pivotalmoment.
That was kind of– that was it,where I was able to go into a
(14:47):
contract position to be aperinatal crisis response
person.
So on the safety assessmentside, whether it's the helpline
or any of the programs, whetherit's in groups, if someone is
showing, or telling, orexpressing anything of concern
for their safety, or in a spacewhere it's not really where PSI
(15:10):
provides that peer support.
Dani (15:12):
Like in an emergency situation.
Lisa (15:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Like we're not an emergencyservice.
We never have been, but there'sthis additional step of acuity
of assessment or justrecognizing like-
This really actually seems likenot a warmline situation, but
more of possibly a hotlinesituation.
More hotline, yeah.
And also like someone justbeing comfortable in that space
(15:38):
in a professional sense ofrecognizing certain questions to
ask, how to ask it.
The National Maternal MentalHealth Hotline did not exist at
that time.
And so there was a pocket therewhere there was nothing there.
At least on the PSI side ofthings, there was a gap that
they really truly recognizedthat they wanted to fill, just–
(16:01):
intrusive thoughts is, you know,very normal for human beings,
but in the perinatal period, it,you know, really, you know,
steps forward.
So I'd been doing the work fora while.
This is also while doing afull-time job, like, at another
organization.
So I was doing full-time work,and then contracting for PSI,
and being like, I love this.
Emily (16:22):
Right.
Lisa (16:22):
I want more of this.
Dani (16:23):
I want this!
I like this.
Uh-huh.
Lisa (16:26):
Love it, love it, love it.
So I sent an email to executivedirector Wendy Davis and let
her know, just like, I'm reallyloving this work.
Dani (16:36):
Oh, Lisa.
I mean, I had to tell somebody,like, it's amazing.
So I sent her an email.
I'm just like, I just want tolet you know that I love this.
And just, like, keep me in,like, the farthest part of your
mind if, like, anything, youknow, is ever happening in any
way.
Like, I love this.
(16:57):
I just want to let you knowthat.
You know, people don't always send emails like that.
Like, we often reach out topeople if like, there's a
problem, something's not goingwell.
So, like, that's really greatthat you took the time to say,
hey, FYI, I just want to let youknow, I'm loving this.
Emily (17:12):
It's brave.
Dani (17:13):
Yeah.
Lisa (17:14):
Well, thank you.
I think that Wendy andeverybody at PSI's staff makes
it easy to send those emails.
Dani (17:23):
You're not thinking, like, oh my gosh, I wonder how this
is going to be received.
Like, am I going to get fired?
Am I, like, is this weird?
Emily (17:29):
Right.
Lisa (17:30):
I didn't think about that at all.
No, no, no.
I was like, I'm really, I'mreally, really loving this.
I'm finding a lot of purpose inthis.
I'm finding a lot of somethingin this.
And I just want you to knowthat.
And if there's, you know, justsharing that with you.
And little did I know that theNational Maternal Mental Health
(17:51):
Hotline was just a whisper atthat moment.
But I'm glad I sent that email,because when it was no longer a
whisper and it was actual, youknow, a reality, something that
PSI, Wendy, the perinatalcommunity et al.
had been wishing for forever tobe in existence.
(18:14):
PSI got the contract for thehotline.
And yeah, so I was the clinicalsupervisor of the National
Maternal Mental Health Hotlinefor just over two years.
Dani (18:25):
Incredible.
Lisa (18:26):
Started that up.
Wild.
I know.
Emily (18:30):
Like, part of the startup.
I was there at the groundfloor.
Yeah.
Lisa (18:34):
It was not in existence.
And then there it was.
And, so grateful and fortunate.
And I don't know how.
I mean, I have some ideas.
Dani (18:46):
Yeah, I think we have some ideas.
You are– okay, We're gonna haveto toot Lisa's horn.
She's very skilled at what shedoes, you know.
Emily (18:52):
Toot-toot.
And you are a wonderful human.
Of course, they would want you.
Hello?
Lisa (18:57):
That is very kind.
Emily (18:58):
And true!
Lisa (18:59):
And I am receiving that.
Dani (19:01):
This is me receiving it.
Lisa (19:05):
This is to the best of my ability.
Emily (19:07):
You're doing great.
Lisa (19:08):
Thank you.
Dani (19:11):
Right, Marlo?
Marlo's Lisa's dog.
Lisa (19:15):
Yeah.
I'm very, very honored to be inthis role that I am in now.
I am very honored and gratefulthat a chair was pulled out for
me to be at the table and tosupport help seekers, let alone
be at the table of the creationof such a pivotal, historic,
(19:37):
life-saving service.
Yeah, just incredible,absolutely incredible.
So I am grateful every singleday, and that has never left,
and it's right in front of meevery single day.
So yeah, I was a contractor andthen moved into the space of
hotline work.
And so helpline, hotline, andthen...
(19:58):
And then?
And, well, now I'm in a spaceof– it's really full circle.
So I am managing the helplinethat I volunteered for and where
all of this really began.
Dani (20:11):
Isn't that wild?
Lisa (20:12):
I can't say how grateful I am and to be working with such
a kind, wonderful team ofvolunteers, and staff, and
colleagues that allow us to showup as our genuine selves in
these spaces is really importantto me in a workspace.
(20:32):
And so it doesn't feel like I'mworking.
That feels weird to even say.
I mean, it is my job, but-
Yeah.
I'm really able to supportothers in supporting others and
hopefully creating and mirroringa space that Carrie Banks
creates and then...
Emily (20:50):
Shout out to Carrie, call us.
Dani (20:52):
Who's Carrie Banks?
For anybody listening.
Who that?
Lisa (20:55):
So Carrie is my boss, very kind, kind person who is the
director of all of our peersupport services.
And so she creates the spacethat allows us to be our genuine
self and fiercely advocatingfor our perinatal families, as
well, at the same time.
And-
Dani (21:13):
Shout out to Carrie Banks.
Lisa (21:15):
Hi, Carrie.
Emily (21:16):
Call us.
You're next.
Lisa (21:20):
See you soon, Carrie.
So yeah, I just, I can't dothis work without the space and
the permission to show upgenuinely.
So our volunteers are showingup genuinely, and our help
seekers are received by folksthat feel as safe as they can.
Nothing is 100% safe, but it'sa space where you could show up
(21:40):
as yourself.
At least I can.
Dani (21:42):
Amazing.
Love the, like, the full circleexperience from the
professional side.
Emily (21:47):
So showing up as your whole genuine human self in a
space that is so often heldmostly by people who have the
lived experience of– like, weall have imposter syndrome when
we think that, like, you know,why is someone asking me my
opinion on this?
Or like, am I enough of anauthority to have an opinion?
(22:10):
Like-
I have an idea about this.
Should I offer it up?
Right.
Dani (22:14):
I don't know.
Emily (22:14):
What does that look like and feel like for you?
Because we are your biggestfans.
So clearly it doesn't botherus.
Does it bother you?
Lisa (22:25):
Well, I first want to just share and expand upon what I
was just saying.
So I have a colleague, MelissaBentley, who has been on your
podcast.
This is a magic wand that shesent to a lot of PSI staff that
are in our helpline coordinatorfamily because we work so
(22:46):
closely together with ourprograms.
And so I don't know why I'mjust gravitating towards this
and holding my emotional supportmagical wand.
So I have colleagues that, youknow, are so kind, and
intentional, and supportive, andreally, really care.
Emily (23:03):
Yes.
Lisa (23:04):
I think whether it's this work or whether it's anybody
else who's experiencing impostersyndrome, I feel like it's– I
think it's a normal humanexperience.
Just in general.
I think, I remember graduatingand I'm like, I'm a social
worker now?
Like, how is that?
Emily (23:24):
How do I do it?
Am I social working yet?
Dani (23:26):
Am I doing it?
Lisa (23:28):
What do I do with my hands?
You know?
Dani (23:30):
I know!
I don't know.
So I think imposter syndrome isprevalent regardless of the
work that people are doing.
Yes.
Lisa (23:39):
I just want to say that because I see that and feel
that.
And also I think being in asupportive space where you're–
the word isn't allowed, likeyou're given the opportunity to
be yourself has made this workand the imposter syndrome feel a
little bit smaller.
Emily (23:56):
Yeah.
Lisa (23:57):
Like it's not entirely always gone.
Dani (24:01):
Oh yeah.
Lisa (24:02):
It shifts and moves and looks different every day.
Like I woke up today, theimposter syndrome was very large
and woke up right in my face.
Dani (24:11):
Oh.
Right! I wasn't sure if we weregonna talk about this while we
were– because we kind ofmentioned it before we hit
record.
Lisa (24:19):
Yeah, it was there.
It was there.
Dani (24:21):
I was also like, hey, P.S.
I'm nervous every single time Ihit record.
Like, am I gonna mess this up?
Is this the last episode of thepodcast?
Like, I'm not a therapist, butI do have lived experience.
You are totally a provider.
And one thing we talked aboutbefore Lisa said, yeah, let's
(24:42):
record an episode.
She said, um, but I don't havekids, so I don't know, like, I
don't know if I have anything totalk about.
Like, I don't know if I shoulddo an episode.
I could talk about thehelpline, but I don't have,
like, lived experiences.
But we were like, yes, you do,because you support folks in the
perinatal period all the time.
All of our stories aredifferent.
(25:02):
I have supported folks in theperinatal period.
I have been somebody who neededhelp in the perinatal period,
but I have never provided thistype of support, like with the
education that you do,specializing, like, in
supporting folks.
We all have different livedexperience, whether it's
personal or professional, we allhave stories to tell.
Anyway, so you were a littlebit nervous, weren't you, Lisa?
Lisa (25:25):
I was, right?
Like, woke up this morning,like the imposter syndrome felt
heavy, smack in my face, andacknowledging that, not judging
it, not blaming myself, justkind of noticing that it's
there, and then moving about myday and being in a space where I
feel like I'm just talking toreally great people and friends
(25:47):
and colleagues has, honestly,like I feel like it's this small
at the moment.
You know, it's still there,right?
But it like moves and shifts,and, like, if I'm in different
environments, or differentspaces, or I walk outside, like,
it just– it's there, it's apart, it's a part that's there.
I think acknowledging it makesit feel less empowered.
Emily (26:11):
Yes.
Lisa (26:12):
Being here at PSI, being in this conversation with y'all,
I feel like it's there.
I can see it, it's a partthat's there, but there are
other parts, right?
There's other parts that showup that can step forward in that
moment and then, you know, stepback.
Emily (26:27):
Yes.
And what I think is so cool isyou in supervising– do we say
supervising volunteers?
I mean, really, you're justtheir biggest fan, right?
Like, with the volunteers thatyou work with on the helpline,
some of them come to you andwill say, I'm sure, but I'm just
a mom, or I'm just a dad.
(26:48):
I'm not a therapist.
Dani says it all the time whenwe're talking to folks.
And we all have that likeimposter syndrome voice that
sometimes attempts to, like,diminish the fact that we have
an opinion, or that we mightkind of be a little bit of an
expert and we should speak up,or that we do have a story to
(27:09):
tell.
Dani (27:09):
Yeah.
Emily (27:09):
Or that we can help people without a degree in a
thing that says we can helppeople, right?
Like you can be just a mom andan accountant, or just a dad and
an accountant and be on thehelpline as a volunteer.
Lisa (27:21):
I think it's the collective, right?
I think a lot of this workisn't done in isolation and
isn't done alone.
So it's the collective peoplethat are showing up.
It's the volunteer, and thenit's the coordinator, and then
it's the group facilitator forthe online support group, it's
(27:42):
the therapist, it's thephysician, it's the doula, it's
the lactation consultant, it'sthe family, it's the friend.
It's not on one person and itnever should be.
This work and showing up forpeople within this time was a
village, like a literal village.
It was a community of peoplecoming together, and it looks
(28:04):
different now based off of, youknow, industrial revolution and,
you know, stuff like that, andmoving to cities, and technology
allowing us to move indifferent places of the world,
right?
So support looks different, andat the core, who are the
helpers that are coming forward?
Who are the trusted individualswhen somebody needs something?
(28:27):
And PSI is a collective villageof people, and skills, and
experiences that help seekerscan tap into if they want to.
Emily (28:41):
Yes.
Lisa (28:42):
There are options resource-wise, and there's
different people that areshowing up for families.
And I like to say, at least inmy own story, that yes, the
imposter syndrome is there, butmy cardiologist doesn't have to
have a heart attack for them totreat me for the heart attack.
Dani (29:02):
Dang!
Emily (29:03):
Yep.
There might be somecardiologists that have had
heart attacks.
Dani (29:07):
Or maybe they had a family member who had a heart attack.
Or maybe they're just like, Imean, they are an expert–
Emily (29:13):
At heart attacks.
At a heart attacks.
At not having a heart attack,but helping people who have
that.
How'd we get here?
This is a great analogy,though.
Lisa (29:22):
I don't know how we got here.
I don't know.
Dani (29:26):
This is great.
No-
This is it.
You're hitting the nail on thehead, Lisa.
Lisa (29:29):
It's an option, right?
Like you can have patients orclients reach out to the office
and be like, hey, has mycardiologist ever had a heart
attack before?
Like, inquiring minds need toknow.
Yeah.
Like, in order to get theservice, and– you can.
You have that option.
(29:50):
The flip side of this coin,this is funny, but it's like
there are lots of pregnantfolks, or thinking about someday
being pregnant folks, or peoplewho possess a uterus and need
to go to an OBGYN who would liketo see someone else who
possesses the equipment, right?
Like, how many people say, Iwant my OBGYN to be a woman or
(30:12):
my midwife I'd like my midwifeto be a woman.
And I will tell you I was thatperson and then the male midwife
who delivered my two VBACbabies was, like, more qualified
than all the women.
Dani (30:24):
Dang.
Emily (30:24):
He did a good job.
Anyway.
Dani (30:26):
Shout out.
David Paad.
Oh, shout out David, hey!
Yep.
Yeah.
It's an option, right?
Like, when seeking support,whether it's peer support,
whether it's for professionalsupport for a therapist or even
for a doctor, everybody has theright to choose a provider that
feels right for them.
(30:47):
And they should.
Absolutely.
The thing is options, I lovehaving options, and knowing
myself, and, like, what I canchoose from.
What is the menu of options Ihave?
One of the options is aprovider that doesn't look like
me, you know, doesn't hold thesame beliefs.
That might be helpful.
There are providers and optionsthat look like me that have the
(31:11):
same, you know, values.
That's an option a providerthat has had the exact same
experience that I do, that's anoption, and there's the option
of a provider that hasn'tnavigated their own perinatal
journey for any host of reasons,that's an option too.
Yeah.
But we need more mental healthsupport, we need more people at
(31:32):
the table, we need more village.
Yeah.
Boom!
Mic drop.
Periodt.
Why not?
Why not?
Emily (31:40):
Exactly.
Thanks for being brave.
I mean, it's like, uh, it'slike this kind of worry that's
kind of, sometimes, like,hidden.
People don't want to, like, saythe things out loud, but thanks
for talking about impostersyndrome with us.
I do want to say, too– that forany providers, therapists,
(32:01):
lactation consultants, doulas,anybody who's in the support and
caring role– that you are notalone if you are not in that
time of your life.
If you are choosing to remainkiddo free, if you are going
through a journey of post -lossand the world doesn't see that
(32:23):
you have, you know, a kiddophysically with you.
Dani (32:26):
Yep.
Lisa (32:27):
Anybody who's showing up in the space, there is a chair
at the table, because youmatter, your voice matters, and
your kindness matters.
I just want to say that, too,because I'm sure that there's at
least one other provider outthere in this perinatal space
that is, you know, in the samechair that I'm in and please
(32:48):
feel free to to join, because weneed more helpers.
Dani (32:51):
Yeah.
We heart you, we need you.
We all need each other, we needto hear from each other, and we
need to support each other ifwe are feeling compelled, like,
this is what we're supposed tobe doing, then that's what you
should be doing.
You followed what felt right toyou, Lisa, and you are
providing such incrediblesupport to folks and making such
a huge difference for folks inthe perinatal period, and,
selfishly, you're such a lovelyfriend and we are lucky to work
(33:14):
with you.
Emily (33:16):
Okay.
Sorry!
How about a lightning round,guys?
Dani (33:19):
Okay.
Lisa, are you ready for alightning round?
Emily (33:23):
What do you think?
Lisa (33:24):
I think so, I'll try my best.
Okay! No pressure, because thisdoesn't really go fast, but, I
mean, there's always a firsttime.
Okay, um [gibberish] justkidding.
I'm not gonna talk really fast.
Lisa, obviously besides thispodcast, what's your second
favorite podcast?
Because we're number one.
Yeah second favorite is Coach Bennett's podcast.
Dani (33:47):
What?
It's literally called CoachBennett's podcast.
He is the Nike head coach.
So he does guided runs on theirNike app.
Oh!
Emily (34:00):
Oh.
It's completely free, so...
Oh, God, you guys are gonnatalk about running now.
Emily, stay with us! We haven'teven gotten to this,
Lisa (34:12):
Yeah.
you've done all kinds of runsthis year.
So, it feels like I've done a lot of runs.
I did a lot of, like trainingruns.
I don't mean you are an ultramarathoner.
No, I'm not.
I will run away from a bear ortowards nachos and that's it! So
anyone who's running more thanthat is a runner to me.
(34:34):
Okay?
So I just want to say, Emily,that per coach Bennett, a runner
doesn't always have to berunning, right?
Like if you've run once you'rea runner, and then, also,
running is just taking flight.
Dani (34:49):
Oh.
So we're all runners.
Okay.
I stand corrected.
Hate to break it to you, butyou're a runner.
Everybody's a runner, they'reeither just not running at the
moment or they're running.
Emily (35:02):
I prefer to identify as swimmer.
Lisa (35:04):
Ooh, yeah that's right, you're a swimmer!
Yeah.
Okay, Emily's stolen the thelightning round.
What are you currently bingewatching, reading, or listening
to?
What needs to be in my queue?
I need a new, like, Netflixand chill kind of thing.
Or Audible, or, I mean, Libby.
Whatever.
(35:25):
So I am watching a few things.
One is Outlander.
I love Outlander.
Dani (35:32):
Me too. I love it.
So Netflix came out with thepart one recently.
Oh yeah.
But we couldn't wait so we gotStars just to watch the part two
of Outlander.
Yeah!
So, watching that, I alsore-watched Outlander because I
love time travel.
Like, I'm a big time travelnerd.
(35:54):
Back to the Future?
Love– I have a little Back tothe Future, like, little
figurine thing.
I have a poster in myapartment.
It's a whole thing, I love timetravel.
Sorry, Emily, just move over a second- I didn't know
that we shared this.
I'm kidding, Emily likes timetravel too.
Emily (36:11):
I do.
Dani (36:11):
She does.
Love time travel.
Emily (36:13):
I am broader in my time travel than Dani is.
Like, I'm like, Doctor Who?
Absolutely.
Like, episodes of Star Trekwhere there's a time loop?
Absolutely.
I am deep-
Space.
Yeah, because I like sci-fi.
And time travel and sci-fi canoften, but not always go hand in
hand.
Sometimes it could be magic,I'm into that too, so.
(36:36):
Yeah
There's love though, inOutlander.
What is this anti-lovenarrative you have about me?
Like, I don't understand.
Dani (36:43):
Anyway, okay.
So Outlander.
Outlander, okay.
what else?
Watching Blood of my Blood,which is the prequel to
Outlander.
That's new.
Emily (36:53):
It's in my, like, you should watch this.
I'm like, okay.
Lisa (36:56):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm dabbling with that.
I've been watching The Summer ITurned Pretty.
Oh, is that a show, a TV show,or a movie?
TV show, a lot of Taylor Swift songs are in there and
it's based off of a book, sobeen watching that.
It's also a way that I've beenconnecting with my nieces.
(37:16):
Oh!
So a lot of my Taylor Swiftlove is, like, for my nieces,
and connecting back, and, like,talking about the Easter eggs
and then–
Oh yeah.
Yeah, it's so good.
And then the book that I'm justabout done with that I don't
want to let go of is anotherthing that I've been connecting
back with my niece.
It's a book series that shereally loves and so wanted to
(37:40):
read it too.
So the series is by ChloeWalsh, it's very teen, like,
young adult.
I'm listening.
Which is also Summer I Turned Pretty, it's more on the
teenish side.
Dani (37:52):
Yeah.
It's called, the first book iscalled Binding 13, the second
one's called Keeping 13.
I've been reading that toconnect back with my nieces.
Emily (38:01):
Cool.
You know what?
This is a great recommendationbecause sometimes it's kind of
cool, like, are your nieces intheir teens or are they like–
Yeah, my oldest is just, it'sunbelievable, but oldest niece
is a freshman in high school
Dani (38:15):
Oh.
Are you okay?
No I'm not okay.
I am not okay.
And then the second niece juststarted middle school.
Okay, cool.
That is actually really cool,because I don't know that we've
had any recommendations for,like, something that's enjoyable
for adults, and then also,like, is kind of a cool way to
connect with those tweenagers,teenagers and tweenagers, you
(38:38):
know?
That's cool, thanks.
Lisa (38:39):
Just to say, for those books, like, there are some,
like, really heavy.
Like, usually what adults wouldkind of go through narrative.
So just kind of pinning that,they're–
Like, they should come with atrigger warning is what you're
saying.
Dani (38:55):
It's just not super light.
Lisa (38:57):
It's not light.
The character's point of viewin the first two books, they're
going through a lot of– lot ofheavy things, so.
Dani (39:05):
Really cool though if you're reading that at the same
time as somebody in your lifethat's like a teen or something
and, like, you can have, like,your, like, little bonding,
like, book clubby, like, oh mygosh what did you think about
this thing that they're goingthrough so it's like, kind of
like a cool thing that you can–you know, any opportunity to
chat with teens about important,like, big topics and it's not,
(39:27):
like, putting a spotlight onthem specifically, but you could
be talking kind of broadlylike...
Emily (39:32):
About a fictional character.
Yeah, so that there's nopersonal attack.
That's very cool.
Lisa (39:38):
It's awesome.
Like, it's been a great story,but then also being able to just
find connections with, like,the people that you love in your
world.
Dani (39:47):
Amazing.
What is one thing that you aregoing to do today to show
yourself a little radical love?
That's a tough question.
I think this.
Aw, Lisa, thanks! This doesfeel radical because, just to
let everybody know, this is thesecond episode we've recorded
(40:10):
with Lisa today, so we got tohang out with Lisa longer than
we normally do with podcastguests.
So this is– we got a nicelittle chunk of time this
afternoon.
Lisa (40:20):
Not long enough though.
Dani (40:21):
I know.
Emily (40:22):
It'll never be long enough.
That's why all the rest of theepisodes are with Lisa.
Spoiler! Just kidding.
Well now the podcast just gotweird.
I'm the third co-host now.
Okay.
Cool!
Lisa (40:34):
That'd be fun.
Do you think that you and Icould get Dani to tell her
story, if we co-hosted herepisode?
Yeah.
We'll talk more.
I'll tell anything to atherapist so I guess it's on.
Basically.
Like I'm like, can Iinterview you, and she's like I
don't trust you!
(40:54):
I did not say that.
No, you did not say that.
I just had imposter syndrome.
Anyway.
Feel that.
Emily, ask her about a timemachine.
She's into time travel.
Emily (41:05):
Time travel! Okay, first of all, what does the machine
look like and second of all ifyou could go back in time– I
want to go to the period of timewhere you weren't sure, like
that imposter was real loud.
What would you tell yourself?
Like what did you need to knowto be like shh.
This wasn't on the list and wethrew it in a lightning round.
Lisa (41:28):
No, no, no.
So I naturally think of themachine as a car.
Dani (41:33):
Oh.
Because Back to the Future.
Yeah.
I'm going 88.
You don't need roads.
Where you're going...
All (41:38):
You don't need roads!
So good, so good.
I was in the car the other dayand I think, there was no
traffic which is shocking, and Ithink I reached 88 I'm like is
something gonna happen?
Emily (41:57):
This is a uniquely LA thing to think, because
everywhere else we could get to88.
Dani (42:04):
Lisa's gonna stick the speed limit from now on.
Don't worry.
I always go speed limit.
So I go 88, like, that one timeand I'm just like what?
What's gonna happen?
Okay, so yeah, DeLorean, going88, then it's 89 and you're
somewhere else.
If I'm going back to a time–
When the imposter was just so loud.
Lisa (42:24):
I mean, that could have been this morning.
Emily (42:28):
Okay.
How'd you help yourself gethere?
Knowing who I was going to bein the room with made it
possible.
Dani (42:36):
Oh.
Emily (42:37):
That's so good.
Lisa (42:39):
I think it's who you surround yourself with, as well.
Having your own village whileyou're doing the work is really
important.
So whenever something comes up,whether it's imposter syndrome,
whether it's you're feelingactivated, or whether you need
somebody to lean on, it's havinga plan at least for me of,
(43:00):
like, who do I go to for what,if I'm feeling A, B, or C.
And again, having options.
So I think options is reallyempowering for me.
I don't know if that answersyour question.
Emily (43:12):
It does, it does.
Because this question is often,what would you say to
pre-recovery you?
And if we apply, which I reallythink we should because your
wisdom is, like, spot on, thisthat you've just said.
It's like, you don't know whoyou haven't met yet.
Like, you don't know who'sabout to be in your village.
So come this way.
(43:34):
Call, text, fill out that formon PSI's website.
You don't know who you haven'tmet yet.
It really is the coolest clubthat none of us wanted to join.
None of us knew that we wouldend up here doing this.
It's the best.
I think Emily gets to ask herother favorite question and then
I'll ask about some deets.
(43:55):
Okay.
How do you take your water?
Dani (43:57):
Yeah, we need to make sure you're staying hydrated, Lisa.
Bubbles, no bubbles, flavor,ice, room temperature?
Depends.
Yes!
Lisa (44:05):
Depends, it depends.
She likes options!
I'm into options.
So this is room temperaturewater in a large container,
that's one of the options.
If it's hot out I take it withice.
Ice, ice, baby, yeah.
Ever any bubbles?
This is controversial.
No, I don't do bubbles.
(44:26):
I don't do bubbles.
Okay.
Why not?
Do they make your nose tickle,do they make you burp-y, what's
happening?
I don't know, I never think about it.
I feel like bubbles is reallyfancy.
Dani (44:37):
Oh.
I don't know.
I've always associated, like,bubbly water with, like, fancy
and I'm just like not fancy.
Emily (44:43):
I think you're very fancy, this is so funny to me.
Dani (44:46):
You know what's really funny is I was like, oh my gosh,
Lisa's looking all cute.
Look at this, I'm wearing thislong sleeve shirt from the
college I went to.
Right?
My hair– yeah, mm-hmm.
I'm not fancy one bit friends.
Speaking of imposter syndrome: all of us. (44:58):
undefined
This is just–
Right.
But if I'm running,
Dani (45:04):
Oh.
if I'm running, my good friendwho got me into running–
Do you want to give a shoutout?
Her name is TJ.
Hey TJ!
She is the person that you wantin your village for any and all
things.
She's an incredible friend.
I have a lot of incrediblefriends, she's the one that got
me into running, which is whyI'm talking about her.
Okay.
Lisa's like, oh no, now I needto name all of them.
(45:26):
Shout out!
Emily (45:28):
Okay, this is not the Oscars.
We're gonna cue the- that'sexactly what I was thinking,
we're gonna cue the music, justnames are gonna like roll up on
the screen, all of Lisa's verybest friends.
You get to talk about your one running friend, that's
it.
Go.
Lisa (45:43):
Yes, yes, yes.
So TJ, who I also playedsoftball with up in Portland, we
play softball together on ourteam, shout out to Slims.
Oh!
So TJ, during my half marathontraining, which I will never do
again.
It's my first and my last halfmarathon.
(46:06):
Like, that is quite enough.
She recommended some type of, like, salt, like flavored
salt to go in the water becauseyou're sweating so much.
Like electrolyte replenishmentkind of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
So if I am running, I will geartowards that.
So that's how I take the water,yeah.
(46:26):
Okay.
Well, you heard it here first: how do you take your water? (46:26):
undefined
It depends.
Emily (46:30):
It depends.
And that's okay.
And Lisa thinks she's notfancy, I mean that's really
breaking news.
Like–
Do I give off fancy?
Yes.
In a approachable way.
Like, not like fancy like, ohmy gosh I couldn't talk to her,
but like, oh my gosh she is sojust, like...
(46:52):
Lisa looks very confused.
I need to narrate.
I don't want to say puttogether, because I- she's like,
what?
She is perplexed.
Lisa (47:03):
I really am.
Like, put togetherauthentically.
I think put together can feellike you're just sort of trying
to, like, make a look.
Not in a look everything'sfine.
Fine, fine, fine.
Like, I think that's why youfeel fancy, because you feel
like you're like, I'm gonna takesome time, I'm gonna do a thing
for myself that I need.
That is what you exude and Ithink that's why you feel fancy
(47:27):
to me.
Dani (47:28):
What can we say?
Lisa (47:29):
I think I need bubbled water.
Dani (47:31):
I'm just saying
With bubbles.
Lisa (47:34):
Okay.
Dani (47:36):
Hey, that's my beverage of choice at the PSI conference,
you know.
See me walking around withsparkling water with a lime
wedge.
That's what's up
Love it.
I'll try that too, I don'tthink I've had that.
Okay.
Anyway! Well, this was a veryquick lightning round.
Per usual!
Lisa, we've covered so much intoday's episode.
If anything at all resonatedwith folks listening and they
(47:59):
would like to get a hold of you,would you like to give a way
for folks to get a hold of you,like your social security
number, like do you want to giveme your credit card info?
Maybe your email address, Idon't know, you feel comfortable
with any of that or?
Okay.
Absolutely-
Did you fall off your chair,Emily?
Emily (48:18):
Okay.
Emily's chair is broken.
You have to understand, this chair is a great chair,
except for the fact that at somewildly unpredictable interval,
it falls backwards, and Ibelieve that I am going to fall
all the way over, and my legsare gonna be, like, straight up,
(48:40):
right?
Like, I'm gonna be like woop!
So you just lean back in thechair a little bit, and then
your chair did that thing whereit kind of broke, and Lisa's
eyeballs got big.
Her dog's on her lap now, veryconcerned, Marlo is not sure.
She's like, my mom's not okay.
She can see Lisa looks veryconcerned.
Anyway, Emily's fine, ifanybody is listening very
concerned.
(49:00):
Marlo is all right, Lisa'sfine, I'm fine.
We were worried.
Everybody haul, everybody good?
Also, Dani, your laugh, whenyou reach that one, when you
reach the point of, like, it'sso funny.
It's so funny.
Yes if folks want to reach me,so my PSI email is Lisa
(49:25):
L-I-S-A-Z atpostpartum.net. [Marlo barks]
Dani (49:30):
Marlo, we're not asking about your email address.
If you'd like to talk to Marlo,Marlo's email address is Marlo
at postpartum.net– just kidding,don't email, the dog doesn't
have an email address.
That's not a real email addressit's not going anywhere.
Lisa Z at postpartum.net we will put that in the show
notes along with links to allthe other amazing things that we
(49:51):
talked about today.
Emily, can you take us out?
I would love to.
Okay.
Lisa, aside from being thefanciest person that we know,
you are the only person, otherthan Wendy, who I would describe
as having a voice that feelslike sunshine.
Oh.
Emily (50:12):
Uh-oh, I'm having a feeling, okay! Emily I didn't
know you were gonna say that,oh.
You are so caring and sowonderful and so kind that
talking to you really does feelwarm and that is why you do what
you do.
And you are such a gift to allof us thanks for sharing your
story.
Lisa (50:29):
Thank you for allowing us to be here today.
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