Episode 2: Episode Drew

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Welcome back to episode 2 and the Nancy Drew Crew. If you know us than you know we are both fanatics for Nancy Drew whether it be the books, games, or movies! This episode is dedicated to our passion for Nancy Drew; in it we go over the history of ND, how she played a role in our lives, and our hopes for the future.
Note - The transcript will be improved for episode 3

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Episode Transcript

Gabe (00:08):
Hello. Are you beautiful people? And we're going to be
talking about Nancy Drew,the thing that brought us
together, the fame that is.

Lauren (00:17):
Probably.

Ga (00:18):
Maybe not most impacted, but definitely has had a big
impact on both of our lives.
But, you know, before we getinto that, I think
we should talk a little bitabout what we've been doing,
how we've been in the past week.
My life was kind of a littlebit of a nightmare.
All of the little preschoolersbrought their little preschool

(00:39):
germs.

Lauren (00:40):
Rose.

Gabe (00:41):
And.
But thenour main teacher and me,
like, we're really sick.
Like, she was really badlysick. Oh, you know, her and
her kids are all, like,massive throwing up.
It was so bad.
I didn't throw up, but, like,I was.
Yeah, it was.

(01:02):
It was like violent to likeshe she was not doing well.
I was not doing well.
And then I started my periodand I was like.

Lauren (01:09):
Hmm.

Gabe (01:11):
And it was like, I had it.
It was like I wasn't.
Because part of the reason Itake my birth control is I have
a hormonal imbalance.
I produce slightlymore testosterone than is
normal.
And it it messes with me.
But and it was likeit felt like before I
was on my birth control and myemotions were all over the

(01:32):
place and they were like, notmy emotions. I didn't know I
was feeling things. I was.
And then I was like superdepressed. And then I was
like, Oh, this is just.
But we're here.

Laur (01:42):
At the feeling we're here.

Gabe (01:46):
It's literally all of the feelings at once that I was
like.

Lauren (01:51):
Dig on.

Gabe (01:53):
But yeah, I don't know.
This was just a nightmare.
But.
I don't know. I always feel likethe start of the week because
I started out the week in thegym.
I'm like, If I can just get toMonday and like get in to class.
I know I'll feel betterbecause there's so.

(02:14):
Like unapologeticallythemselves. They're so happy
and bubbly and cheerful thatI'm like, How can I be
sad and miserable.

Lauren (02:22):
When I'm.

Gabe (02:22):
Like, surrounded by.
All this choice are so.
What was what was your weeklike?

La (02:31):
Actually better than it was.
Yeah. No, we arehousesitting for my parents and
it's been lovely.
So we're back in myhometown, which I really
don't spend a lot of timein, but
we have been going out toeat at a variety of places.

(02:51):
We have been seeing somefriends, some of my good
friends.
We've been drinking beerand alcohol and wine
from my parents stores storages.
So that's been great.
Yeah. The weather was reallynice this weekend, so we
were able to get out andwalk and I've just been

(03:13):
really kind of for the firsttime been able to show my
fiancee a lot of whereI grew up, because usually
we just come to my parentshouse, hang out for a while,
and then get on backhome. So it was our first
time really running aroundand exploring my hometown
and him getting a feel ofthis is what my life was
before I left togo off to college.

(03:36):
So it's cute.

Gabe (03:37):
That's so wholesome.
I love that.
So do you likewhere you guys live now?
Is that like kind of far awayfrom where you grew up?
Like, is is there, like, a bigdifference between.

Lauren (03:51):
It's where I grew up was a lot more in the woods.
And then I live in a fairlyurban environment now.
I mean, it's suburban, butlike there's,
you know, it's not justhouses and so.
Right? Yeah, it's a it's adifferent it's a different

(04:11):
world. And he grew upin farmlands and
also a rural area.
So he and I are both adjustingand growing and this city life.
But it's not what we grewup with.

Gabe (04:30):
But you say you guys or maybe you can't speak for
him, but like, do you guysprefer kind of where you live
now or do youjust feel like it was maybe
like more natural?
Not natural. That's not theright word. I don't know.
Like, do you prefer where youlive now or do you miss
kind of like where you grew up?

Lauren (04:50):
We both grew up around a good amount of nature.
And so we do miss that.
We love the walkabilityof our area because we still
have a good amount of naturewhere we are.
But.
There's a lot of developmentin a lot of housing.

(05:10):
And so it's it's it's adifferent feel.
But we love the ability tobe able to walk and not have
to drive 10 minutes to getto the nearest grocery
store or a restaurant or.
You know, being ten a tenminute drive from anything
you would want to do is it'sfine.

(05:32):
It's not a big deal,especially if you're driving
among trees and you're noton a highway the whole time.
But the walkability,especially for kids
and for younger people whodon't necessarily have
access to a car all thetime, it's just a different
environment than what wegrew up with.

Gabe (05:50):
When I was in college, I studied abroad and lived in
London forlike four months, which is
a really big change becauselike, like you were saying.
Like work versus suburban as Idon't know if that's the right
word. Like we are likeneighborhoods and stuff, but
we're definitely likea lot of nature and
everything, which I really love.

(06:12):
And so, like, living in like acity, city was a very strange
adjustment.
And I could, I couldappreciate it and I could
appreciate the benefits of it.
But I was also just likenature sake.
I don't want to say homesick,though, like.
It made me kind of depressed alittle bit.

(06:33):
And like when wevisited Norway and stuff, I
was I remember likeI wanted to kiss the.

Lauren (06:39):
Earth.

Gabe (06:42):
Trees. I've missed.

Lauren (06:43):
You.

G (06:45):
And we did like a nature walk and stuff as like, yeah,
the city life is not for me.
I could not do it formore than increments of time.
It just made me so sad, whichis really weird if
you think about it, because Ifeel like in the city, you
know, you're constantlysurrounded by people.
So why would you feel lonely?

Lauren (07:06):
But cities?
Because of their natureand because of the people
who live there.
There's less of aneed or incentive
to get to know people aroundyou because people are
moving, because people arein and out, because people
don't put down roots.
They're like, Well, I'm going tolive in this apartment for

(07:27):
one, maybe two years, andthen I'm going to scoot off
and live somewhere elseversus being in more
of the suburbs or just beingaround more houses where
people are like, Nope, I'mgoing to live here for ten
years. My family's going tobe here. My kids are going
to grow up here.
Maybe my grandparents livedhere, maybe my parents lived
in the town, but justelsewhere. And now we've
moved here. So it'sit's the putting down roots

(07:50):
and therefore wanting tocreate a community
around you whereyou can connect because you
know you're going to bethere for a long time, which
is something maybe you don'tget in the city.

Gabe (08:03):
We have a cabin up north and it is definitely in
a city that like, you're nothaving a lot of civilization
that's not there.
Well, yeah, like there's not alot of civilization.
You know, you don't have yourconveniences that you have,
you know, closer to the cities.
And I feel like part of that,like why that's also different
is it's not just your roots,but also like your neighbors

(08:26):
are who you have to depend on.
Like when something goeswrong, sometimes
they are all you have.
So, like, I also feel likethat's part of the incentive
to get to know them and befriendly and stuff.

Laure (08:38):
Because you never know if they're going to come over and
need butter, you know, oryou're going to need to give an
egg. So when.
When literally the stereotype,can I have a cup of sugar?

Lau (08:47):
But when you're in the city and everything is at your
fingertips and everything'sconvenient and you can get
everything and do everythingfor yourself again,
there's no incentive to tryto interact with somebody else.
Who can help you because youdon't need help
in your day to day life.

Gabe (09:07):
Yes, I totally agree.
And speaking of people whoneed help.
Everybody we run into as now.

Lauren (09:14):
Through.

G (09:16):
All of the chores they always have for us.
Oh, my.

Lauren (09:20):
Yes. Hence all of my pay. Nancy emotes.
I love it.

Gabe (09:28):
Give it.
Give us our wage.
We are working hard.
We deserve it.

Laur (09:34):
White Wolf, we are looking directly at you.

Gabe (09:39):
Call it out. Call it out.
I love it.
I think we I think we moveinto it. I think we move into
the timeline.
This this is all you.
This is your time to shine.
Your two days of researchhas accumulated to this.

Lauren (09:53):
Like we've talked about, Nancy Drew, is really how we
connected.
It's been a big part of ourlives kind of for a very
long time at this point.
And we wanted to talkabout where Nancy Drew came
from, what other mediatalks about. Nancy Drew
includes Nancy Drew, how hercharacters kind of changed
and developed throughout thedecades.

(10:15):
And then we'll talk moreabout the games themselves.
But for anyone who doesn'tknow, the Nancy Drew
character was created byEdward Stratton Meyer just
a few years after he createdThe Hardy Boys.
So he made the Hardy Boys.
He created those charactersin 1927, and then
three years later, he cameout with Nancy Drew because

(10:37):
there was such an appetitefor a girl
to do similar things to theHardy Boys.
Somehow in the thirties orin the late twenties, they
were like, Hmm, what ifgirls were also somebody who
catered to.

Gabe (10:54):
Blows my mind.
Absolutely blows my mind.
I so genuinelythought it was a female author
who was like who wasinspired by the Hardy Boys and
was like, I'm going to I wantto make a character.
Like, when you told me that, Iwas like, I was so mind blown.
My foundation was absolutelyshould give.

Lauren (11:14):
Yeah, I know.
It's so interesting becauseboth the Hardy Boys and
Nancy Drew had ghostwriters.
And Caroline King,of course, was the Nancy
Drew author, quote unquote.
A whole variety of peoplewrote her story.
And so they had a similarsituation for the Hardy Boys.
And so the first Nancy Drewbooks were published in 1930.

(11:38):
Nancy was originally 16.
There's a lot of discussionabout, well, is Nancy 16?
Is she 18?
There's a lot of confusionabout that. She was
originally listed as 16because at the time that was
the earliest someone couldgraduate high school.
So they wanted her to bestill a teenager, but kind
of on the fringes of adulthood.
And so at the time in thethirties that was 16.

(12:00):
And then in the sixties theymade her 18, so they aged
her up. So that's why kindof in that core group
of books, that core series,she's 16.
But then in later books anda lot of later adaptations,
she's 18.
Other adaptations made her,you know, 20 or 21, just
as we kind of age up andwant to get her a college

(12:20):
graduate or in collegejust so we can have some
different adventures.

Ga (12:25):
Did they ever explicitly say she was 16 or was it open
ended and that's why it wasconfusing?
Or like, why was there so muchconfusion about her age?

Lauren (12:34):
There remain 56 books that were started in the
thirties and went on andwere published until the
fifties.
So kind of that core 56books, they have been done
and redone to remove raciststereotypes and to make
other adjustments, tomodernize them, take out
harmful pieces.
So they're definitely notthe same as they were, but

(12:56):
it's kind of those core stories.
And in those it always said,okay, so Nancy Drew
is 16, she lookslike this, she likes this.
They have a whole littlecharacter bio
in the first few paragraphsof the book just to kind of
get everyone's mindset inthe right direction.

(13:17):
So yeah, they were explicitly.

Ga (13:19):
Yeah, now that you say that, yeah.

Laur (13:22):
So in later series I think then they would reference
like, Oh, she's 18 and blahblah blah. But
there are a whole variety ofseries in the sixties.
So, so there's that corebook of the thirties to the
fifties, and since it wascreated by
the guy who created the HardyBoys, who was used to
writing male characters,that's why Nancy has a lot

(13:45):
of traditionally maleattributes of her
assertiveness and herability to do things on her
own, which is just sounusual for writing about a
young girl at that time,kind of with that widespread
media power in the sixtieswhen they made her tea.
And they also removed someof those because

(14:07):
there was gentle dismayabout, oh, well, she's being
such a tomboy.
We want her to be more shyand retiring and more of a
lady figure, therefore,being a better role model
for young girls at the timebased on what they wanted
young girls to be doing inthe nineties than they.
It was kind of a spinoffseries where Nancy's going

(14:28):
to college and otherwiseaging her up.
So then they could add insome more adult themes
in a little bit more, youknow, make out
scenes by reader request.
One of those series had herbreak up with Ned, so then
she could be a single girlin college.
So there was just a wholevariety of series.
There was in the 2000s.

(14:49):
There have been a coupleattempts of reigniting
series where theydid tween Nancy.
Then they did some graphicnovels or some comic books.
The comic books and thegraphic novels were okay.
But then tween Nancy'sseries was canceled
fairly early, based on abunch of negative reviews

(15:11):
because there was a dislikeof how the character was
portrayed.

Gabe (15:14):
Are you saying they were remakes or like they are
trying to carry on frompast series?

Lauren (15:20):
Yeah, carry on from past series. Basically take the
character in a new directionthat is more modern because
the thirties and the 50series, that original
series, you know, Nancy, issolving little petty crimes
of rich people like, youknow, a mink stole was
stolen or, you know, it'sit was just a different

(15:40):
kind of type of mystery shewas solving. And then as you
get more modern, then she'ssolving murders or she's
solving kidnapings and she'sput into peril more often
than just being locked in acabinet.
So they kind of drama it up.
In the nineties they werevery much like paperback
Pulp Fiction vibes.

Ga (16:00):
Okay, I have a very specific scene that I read from Nancy
Drew. I don't know which bookit is, but it was like
my worst nightmare.
She ended up I don'tremember how I don't remember
what in.
But she was like trapped.
I'm pretty sure she was tiedand there was like a poisonous
spider in the dark room withher.

(16:21):
And I was like.

Lauren (16:23):
Oh.

Gabe (16:24):
That's my worst nightmare.
I swear, I.
Okay, now, don't be awkward ifit's not Nancy Drew, but I
swear, it is a Nancy Drew bookI was reading.
For a school project.
And I was like.
That's scary.
You're like, now I got to likeI got to go look.

Lau (16:45):
Well, it's funny, because I can remember the cover
art for it.
I have it down in my roomout of those.

G (16:52):
Oh, you know what I'm talking about?

Lau (16:53):
Yeah. Out of those 56 books I have, I think 50
of those originalsand a handful of those are
copies from when my motherwas a kid.
And then the other ones wereones that I just.

Gabe (17:09):
Have some of those, too.

Lauren (17:10):
Wired.
Because when I was young,there were you know, there
were selling, like sixof them together
in a little bundle.

Ga (17:21):
Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

La (17:22):
Every once in awhile, I'd be able to convince my parents
to let me do it.
I think there was a diamondon it.
That's what's going to driveme. Spike the spider
sapphire mystery.

Gabe (17:36):
That one scene.

Lauren (17:38):
Was that it? Where there was.

Gabe (17:40):
As I wanted a.

Lauren (17:40):
Sapphire and a nice big.
Spider diamond.
Yeah, well, yeah.
The spider sapphire mystery.

Gabe (17:51):
All I know is that that series, that scene
the scarred me because I haveborderline almost
arachnophobia, not quite,but like I'm very close.
Like the fear spidersis very immense.
And I was like, if that hadbeen me. Oh.

Lauren (18:08):
No, no, no, no, no.

Gabe (18:12):
I.
I'm glad you remember.
I'm glad I wasn't crazy, butyeah.

La (18:17):
I could absolutely visualize it. But I know it's funny
because reading through thebooks and it's and
we'll talk a little bitabout this when we get to
the games, but rereadingthrough the books just
reminds me so much of howhow the Nancy Drew mysteries
are structured more of aSherlock Holmes detective

(18:37):
where it's not a whodunit.
You know, the bad guys basedon vibes.
She's rocking and rollingand she's just trying to
expose them or catch them inthe act.
But you don't have a cast ofcharacters that you're
trying to figure out who'sthe actual baddie, which is
what the games arestructured around, because
that's how that makes sense.
Yeah. So I get it.

(18:58):
But it's, it's kind ofa bit of a reason why the
games struggle a little bitwith the plot is because
that is not how the NancyDrew books are structured.
Like sometimes of course,there'd be a little twist or
a surprise extravillain who was part of it,
who you didn't expect.
But for the most part, youknew who the bad guys were

(19:20):
when you ran into thembecause they were actively
stealing from someone, orthey were they were doing
something bad. And you couldtell that they were bad
people. And Nancy just hadto figure out how to trap them.

Gabe (19:34):
Ironically, my one of my favorite parts about the game
is that it's more like awhodunit because I find that
more interesting.

Lauren (19:42):
Oh, absolutely.

Gab (19:43):
But I still love the books.
Like, I still loved how thebooks soared.

Lau (19:46):
Yeah. For any puzzle you're solving on your own.
In game version?
Absolutely. I think you haveto have it. It's a whodunit.
I don't know if it would makemore sense to, like, reveal
or have Nancy have to puttogether the pieces, kind of
like with Sherlock Holmes,where if you played any of
those games, you do have toput together all of the
pieces as things go.

(20:06):
But until you have the finalpieces in the puzzle, you
figure out the actualdirection it goes.

Ga (20:11):
Yeah, I have played a couple of Sherlock games and I did
like that about them, butI'm also like, I'm not quite
sure how they would implementthat into games like the way
they have the game structurednow that like, I don't know.

Lauren (20:24):
Yeah.

Gabe (20:25):
But yeah, I do.
But you're saying.

La (20:27):
Structure wise, I think what they're doing is absolutely
just fine. Now have an issuewith it. That's where
there's a disconnect thatcomes through with trying to
adapt stories fromthe Nancy Drew series.

Gabe (20:39):
To get.

Lauren (20:39):
Into games.
So that's why they prettymuch take vibes.
Yeah.

Ga (20:43):
Would you like to talk a bit about the media and the movies?

Lauren (20:46):
Yeah.
The first book came out in1930, as I said, just seven
years later, Warner Bros.
Bought the rights to theseries. So like within seven
years, Warner Brothers wasjust like, Oh, this is a
cash cow.
Let's go.
They bought it for $6,000,which is about $120,000
today. The person whohad the rights to it agreed

(21:09):
to this with what'shis face, Warner?
Mr. Warner,without a lawyer or anyone
else supporting her with it.
And there were famously verygrateful feelings
about that, which I donot blame her.
Warner Bros.
Within a couple of years ofthat purchase.
So right at the end of 1930s,they had four movies come

(21:32):
out about Nancy Drewand promoting one
of the films Warner Brotherscreated a Nancy Drew fan
club where the leadfor one of the Nancy Drew
movies was kind of like theperson who was like the
honored guest, but they hadrules based on what they
thought a typical targetaudience girl

(21:54):
would be interested in andwould have.
And so one of the rules forthis Nancy Drew fan club was
that you must have a steadyboyfriend by myself.

Gabe (22:05):
Just because Nancy had a steady boyfriend.
I don't understand why that.

La (22:09):
Yeah, because you want to be just like Nancy to have.
You have to have a ned.
What is Nancy without her, Ned?
Your mind's eye thinks game.

Gabe (22:28):
So I want to be best.

Lauren (22:31):
I want to be best.
Darn it. Look, we'll fightover you best.
And ourbest was always my favorite.

Gabe (22:42):
Honestly?

Lauren (22:43):
Absolutely.
Poor best.
Because.
Yeah. In the books.
So it starts out whereNancy is best friends with a
girl named Helen.
And in the first couplebooks, she's always talking
about Helen Corning.
Helen is great.
She's I think she's a coupleof years older than Nancy.

(23:03):
I don't really know how theymet, but she's a couple of
years older.
She gets engaged in booktwo, The Hidden Staircase.
So I think she then trotsoff and goes and gets
married. And so that's justa whole thing. I love it so
much because.

Gabe (23:17):
Surely she's older.

Lauren (23:19):
Yeah, I think she is a couple of years older than
Nancy, and Nancy'sjust riding along in a car
with her at the beginningof the hidden staircase, and
Helen is just grinning fromear to ear, and Nancy's just
like, What's going on?
And Helen's like, I'm engaged.
And Nancy's like, To who?
What?

Gabe (23:40):
Left field.

Lauren (23:41):
Basically. Where?
Yeah. So that in later booksand they bring in these two
cousins whoare Nancy's best friends
named Best and Best Marvinand George Fane.
George is like a tomboy.
Slim has basically a shortbrunet hair.

(24:02):
She's just like an athlete.
And then Bess is the polaropposite, where she's got,
like, long, blond hair.
She's like a little pudgy.
They talk about that a lot,just like a total girly
girl. Loves shopping, lovesboys, major flirt,
that sort of thing.
So the books, it it was ShadowRanch when they were

(24:22):
introduced, was it I,I think it was because I
remember when I played thegames and all of a sudden
Shadow Ranch came, Iwas like, wait a minute,
isn't this when they wereintroduced? But then I was
like, But we already know them.
And I was, I, I remember like,what the what the heck?
I think I could be wrong, but I.

(24:43):
I'm pretty sure Shadow Ranchwas when.
Nancy. Kind of like.
Got to know there aresomething I don't really
remember.
I'm down in every state now.
I'm like, Oh, no, that's not it.

Lau (25:00):
I'm going to have to go and investigate.
I mean, Shadow Ranch is onlyBook five, so I think that
would make sense.

Gabe (25:06):
Yeah. I mean.

Lau (25:08):
But because they definitely artan to.
So I'm in there and everyfour or five.

Gabe (25:15):
You keep going.

Laure (25:15):
I think that makes sense.
Okay.
So, yeah. So moving on.
Uh, so those four moviescame out. Then in the 1970s,
there was a short serieswhere it was the Hardy Boys
and Nancy Drew mysteries,because some episodes

(25:36):
focused on the Hardy Boys,some focused on Nancy.
That didn't do very well.
Later episodes, theykind of tried to do more of
Hardy Boys focus with Nancyas kind of a side character
that also didn't do well.
There was a 1990 513episode, Nancy Drew series

(25:56):
from Canada, where Nancy is21. She's a criminology
student in New York City.
And then the stories arebased on some of those 1990s
paperback pulp fiction books.

Gabe (26:11):
Nice.
I did confirm.
Google confirmed ShadowRanch was in fact and they
were in Geneva.
I don't know where that outfrom, but I do remember
playing the game and beinglike, Wait a minute.

Lauren (26:26):
I don't think, Oh, now I love it.

Gabe (26:31):
Because like when I was younger I didn't play the
games and. Sure.
So like there was like notime consumption for the games
for me. So like when we got tothat game, I was like.

Lauren (26:42):
Oh.
There is a 2002 movieof Nancy Drew that starred
Maggie Lawson, who,for anyone who doesn't know,
plays Juliet O'Hara in Psych.
Lovely.

(27:02):
I love her.
And that also has Nancy incollege. So they are really
trying to do the aging Nancy up.
They that one was supposedto be spinning off into a
TV series, but then avariety of things happened.
Maggie moved on to adifferent ABC show
Shenanigans, and then in 2007there was a new Nancy Drew

(27:24):
movie starring Emma Roberts,which was such a good movie.
Nancy is uprooted from RiverHeights, Illinois.
They go to California forCarson. Drew's job.
Nancy is incredibly a fishout of water in her new high
school. She has a 1950sesthetic clothing.
She's an aggressive overachieverwhich irritates all of her

(27:48):
classmates.
She's getting hit onconstantly by a younger
boy who is really bummedthat she's she has a long
distance boyfriend.
Daniela monet from Victoriais in it as a mean girl
who's really crushing on Ned.
Ned is played by MaxTheriault, who is the older
brother of Norman Bates inBates Motel.

(28:08):
Rachel Leigh cooks in it.
Bruce Willis makes a cameo.
There's just like lotshappening in that movie, and
it's truly delightful.

Gab (28:16):
I'm sorry. Total sidetrack.
If you love Max Serio.
He's ina series called SEAL Team.
And, like, he is like abeefcake.
Like, he is insane.
And I rememberwhen you were Ned.
Yes. Like he is a hot,hardcore seal.

(28:37):
And I want on that memorybecause I still have the love
of when he was Ned.
And I'm like.

Lauren (28:44):
Mm.

Gab (28:45):
Anyway, you can't unsee it.

Lauren (28:47):
He was just so little.

Gabe (28:49):
I cannot. I cannot.

Lauren (28:52):
I know.
He's like Jack, like I.
Anyways.
Sorry.
I think we are going to haveto thirst over one year
after each episode,last episode where they're
staying over about it.
What's his face from TheWitcher? Oh, Henry Cavill.

Gabe (29:15):
Stop. You scare.
Remind me.
You care.

Lauren (29:20):
About it.

Gabe (29:22):
Who do men ever want to have a conversation?
I would. I would.
I would die. I would be, like,having to try so hard
not to be a weird fangirl,because I don't want to make
them uncomfortable.
But I'd be like.

Lauren (29:35):
I just love you so much.

Gabe (29:38):
And I don't even know you.
So it's weird, but, like, Ifeel like I know you.
I have no idea. We're going tothird our next episode.

Lauren (29:48):
What will I do when it happens?
I mean.

Gabe (29:51):
I accepted.

Lauren (29:51):
It.
So that's the Emma Robertsmovie.
Then there was a 2019movie, which I discovered on
stream becauseI was playing a Nancy Drew
game. Was it midnight?
No, it couldn't have beenmidnight in Salem.
Was it Sea of Darkness?
Maybe it was midnight inSalem, because that also

(30:12):
came out in 2019 and inthe end credits for that game.
After it, they played avideo preview for this
2019 Nancy Drew movie.
And I hadn't heard anythingabout it, and I was just so
confused. Did you see this one?

G (30:27):
No. Part of me is like I feel like I know what you're talking
about. And the other part ofme is like, do
I know? I don't know.
I don't think it was Sea ofdarkness.

Lauren (30:35):
So yeah, I think it must have been midnight in Salem.

Gab (30:38):
Which is weird because that came out at like the way end
of 2019.

Laur (30:42):
I think the movie did too.
So I think the movie cameout, The CW show
and Midnight and Salem allcame out around the same
time, which is true chaos.
But so that's.
So this movie wasco-created by a variety of
people, including EllenDeGeneres and Wendy Williams.
It was called Nancy Drew andthe Hidden Staircase.
I have to see this movie.

(31:02):
I haven't seen it.
I have to go see it.
But it's it seems to followthe plot of
the original book, NancyDrew in the Hidden Staircase.
It seems to follow thatalong pretty closely.
Obviously, it is incrediblymodernized.
So the haunting went viraland that's how Nancy hears
about it. Kind of theopposite from when Emma's

(31:24):
Nancy Drew gets upgradedfrom River Heights to
California.
This Nancy Drew movesNancy from Chicago
to Little River Heights.
So she gets she's a fish outof water because she's coming
from the big, bad city.
And then she has to go tothis boring little town.
And then the mystery happens.
If you haven't watched thetrailer for it, I do

(31:44):
recommend it because it ismadness. Nancy is just
skateboarding around.
The humor is very forced.
The trailer is basically 2minutes of people just
hyping Nancy, at being like,Nancy, you're just going to
pick this lock, right, Nancy?
What do you mean?
You can just do thisscience. And they just
basically are just tellingher how amazing and

(32:06):
incredible she is and howtalented she is and how she
can do everything.
And that's the entiretrailer of Just Nancy's amazing.
And so based on reviewssimilar to Emma's where they
were like Emma's portrayalof Nancy was great.
The movie was Whatever.
Same here, where SophiaLillis, who was the lead in

(32:27):
the IT movies, who'splaying Nancy Drew?
Critics say she did a greatjob, but then the movie
itself just sucks.

Gabe (32:36):
Okay. I just I just had a glance at the trailer and
see it.
Okay. I remember I rememberwatching the trailer in 2019
and I'm like, okay, yes, Iremember this.
And I remember Iwas not terribly interested in
Annette because I was like, Idon't feel like this is going
to be Nancy.
Like, I don't feel like it'sgoing to be true to Nancy.

(32:58):
And I was just kind of like, Idon't know, the trailer just
didn't do it for me.

Lauren (33:02):
No.

Gabe (33:03):
And I think it was Salem.
I think it was at the end ofSalem that they showed it.
So now that you bring it up,I'm like, Yeah.

Lauren (33:10):
So Salem came out, this movie came out, and then
The CW, Nancy DrewShow also premiered
in the end of 2019.
It's on The CW, so it'sfollowing very closely
with the artistic choicesof Riverdale has
supernatural and magicalelements.
Nancy is also 18, and thisone, she's solving local murder.

(33:34):
The characters do havefamiliar names like Bess and
George and Ned, but theirrelationships are not
what we expect them to be.

Gabe (33:42):
Yes. No, this is accurate.
So this this is what I'll say.
Okay. I only like when it cameout, I was very excited.
Not that I lost interest andlike I was like that.
Nancy Drew, they're making TVseries for Nancy Drew.
We have to watch this.
And he he would sit at thekitchen with me and we watched
like the first five episodes,like the second we could watch

(34:02):
them and stream them.
I was we were we were doingit. We were doing it for like
the first episode.
I was verylike frustrated because
I was like, none of thesecharacters are.

Lauren (34:15):
What they're supposed.

Gabe (34:16):
To be.

Lauren (34:17):
And why is why is Ned like.

G (34:21):
He's not a convict, but he is like a convict.
There's something. And like,why is George running a
restaurant and Bessis living in a van?
And I was just like,Why are Best and George not
related? LikeI was having such an
existential crisisand Dad was my dad was just
like Gabriel Cho.

(34:42):
Cho it's okay.
We're getting a differentartistic interpretation of
Nancy Drew.
And I was like, Stop speakingsense to me, please.
This is my.

Lauren (34:54):
Child.

Gab (34:55):
It's like, it's going to be okay. And then we got to the
second episode and I was like,I was kind of feeling it.
I was like, you know, it'sokay. It, Nancy
is more than justthe books and everything.
Like, she doesn't have to justbe the original 56
books and stuff. But, you know,like, she's more than that.
It's okay that they'remodernizing her.

(35:16):
And I just, I think finishedwatching a lot of the Sabrina
that was also like CWand that had kind of stressed
me out because there's totallynot the Sabrina I grew up
with. I was like, You know,it's okay, it's okay.
That is modernized.
I can I can be calm.
And so then I actually startedto enjoy it and I, I

(35:36):
love shows thatjust like, were their way
into your psyche and you'rejust like, you just you don't
even know anymore.
You're like, is itsupernatural or can
they explain this?
How are they going to explainthis? And so I actually really
love I love that I havewatched, I have no idea.
But I was like, there has tobe supernatural.
There's no way.
But I also like Nancy,Nancy's never really had

(36:00):
supernatural, but also I'malways kind of like, Ooh, I
hope she does.

La (36:04):
Well, I think we're going to have to watch it now.
I think we're each going tohave to watch it.
We're going to have to spendtime discussing it.
So tune back in because wewill definitely have things
to say.

Gabe (36:15):
I, I think you'll like it.
I feel like maybe you'll feellike I did the first episode
and feel very like,what the heck.
But it.
It grows on you.
And I love I love the thegirl who plays Nancy.
I follow her on Twitter.
And she was like superwholesome. And I she was so

(36:36):
nervous. She was like, I feellike I have a big
responsibility playing thisrole, like I have to be, Nancy.
And I was like.
Yes, you do.
And you know what? You did it.
You owned it.
You did it. I'm proud of.
So I'd recommend it.
I want to finish it.
I just, you know, thingshappen. There's they're going

(36:56):
into the first season now.
I'm so flabbergasted by that.
You write, it was veryRiverdale esque, which is a
little like strange,but maybe maybe it's
needed. Maybe it willrejuvenate Nancy and, like,
bring her the popularity shedeserves. Because I feel like
Nancy Drew is very highlyunderrated. And I felt like

(37:18):
that a lot of my life.
And I was just kind of like,why isn't why doesn't she
have more?

Lauren (37:24):
And I think that's because
every time the characteris played or portrayed,
people likethe person playing Nancy
Drew or they like the NancyDrew character, and they
just think thatthe rest of the story is
mediocre.

(37:45):
So I think it's reallyinteresting how each
piece, each time thecharacter is depicted,
people are like, That's acool thing to do with character.
Great. Sounds good.
But then the plotor just the rest of the
vibes just don't work.
And I think that is becausewe've got so many portrayals
of her with all of those,quote unquote masculine

(38:07):
attributes.
And then we also have piecescoming in of just where we
want her to be more feminine.
And so there's that push andpull, which, depending
on the portrayal,can either really work,
you know, the Emma Robertssuper girly girl.
But of course, she was, youknow, doing little badass
things and whatever.

(38:27):
The 2019 version is supertomboy. Like there's really
no girly girl shenanigans.

Gabe (38:36):
I feel like the CW did from my perspective.
And what I remember this waslike, you know, three years
ago that I watched this, but Ifeel like they did a good job
of meldingthe two. So she had the
feminine side.
She had, you know, thefashion, some of the girl
ness. But like she wasalso a boss as.

(38:58):
Biatch. And she was assertiveand blunt and well,
maybe not blunt, but she wasassertive and like, you know,
helping the police solve theircase. The point that the one
police officer was just likeso annoyed with her and like,
I felt like that was so Nancy.
But then the other thing thatI felt like the CW did really
well was I felt like they reallyportrayed like Nancy

(39:23):
losing her mom.
Like, I feel like sometimesin the I don't know about the
books, but in the gamesI just don't I don't know if
it's not.

Lauren (39:33):
I think in every other adaptation, Nancy loses her
mom, young,like younger than ten, and
then the CW, she'sjust lost her mom, right?
Or pretty recently.

Gabe (39:44):
Pretty recently.
But even that, I feel likeeven losing your mom at a
younger age, it affectsyou. And I feel like that's
never portrayed properly.
You're like, you don't seeNancy struggling with it as
much as I feel like youshould. And I like that.
The CW, which, I mean, Iguess because it's fresher,
you're going to see it more.

(40:05):
But I still feel like.
It's it's a life changingmoment, especially when you're
younger to be missing.
You know that that much neededpart in your life.
Because I feel like you doneed the two parts in your
life helping to raise youbecause you have the two
different perspectives,you know what I mean? And like
to be completely missing one.

(40:28):
I think makes a difference.
And I feel like it's neverproperly shown or given enough
time to be shown.
I don't know. Does that makesense? So I did really like
that about the CW and I likedthat there was you saw a more
visible tension between herand her dad, but there was
also the like greatlove that I think I always

(40:49):
loved about them was like theywere really close, they were
strongly bonded.
But then you also got therealistic tension
between them and butting headsand him being like worrying
about her and stuff.

Laur (41:01):
Yeah, because I mean, with such an assertive daughter
having a lawyer.
Dad, I.
I mean, there are going tobe fireworks.
Yeah.

Gabe (41:11):
Surely, surely there will be.

Lauren (41:14):
All the, the different adaptations have in common
is that she's a, you know,late teens or a young woman
who likes to solvemysteries. That's kind of
that core piece of NancyDrew. And so moving
on into the video gameswhere that is the key
attribute, she is the playerwho is a young person

(41:35):
typically who likesto solve mysteries, and
that's really all thatshe needs to be.
So her interactivewho creates these games
that was launched in 95.
Since 98, they released33 Core and Nancy Drew
games, three hidden objectgames called the Nancy Drew

(41:57):
Dossier and a NancyDrew Codes and Clues
app that teaches coding skills.
And they also released acouple non Nancy games,
including a Hardy Boys gameonly for Nintendo DS
and some other stuff.

Ga (42:12):
I didn't know they did that.
The Hardy Boys I had a chance.

Lauren (42:15):
To one I there was a New York Times article
that came out in 2000 calledGame Theory Prowling and
Spying with Nancy Drew, theUN Barbie.
That was the title.
They called her the UNBarbie, which I thought was
really interesting.
And so this article came outright after message in a
Haunted Mansion, which wasGame three.

(42:36):
And the article talks abouthow her interactive was
using focus groups for younggirls to try to figure out
how to design games,especially for them.
And they discovered duringthose focus groups that the
mothers of those focus groupgirls were equally as
interested and would beheavily involved in solving
the mysteries with the girls.
So then her interactivestarted creating focus

(42:57):
groups of adult women andmothers to also cater to those
demographics when designingthe games. And so that's why
from the jump, the gameswere really designed to be
simple enough for a child todo, but complex enough for
an adult to be also involved.

Gabe (43:15):
That makes a lot of sense, like hearing that.
That makes sense because.
Like they are geared forchild, but also sometimes
they were just on such a levelthat I don't know how Child Me
figured out and like it wassheer dumb luck.
And my dad, mydad, my dad was the one who
was always heavily involved inthe Nancy Drew games with me

(43:36):
and like, he would come helpa sister out.

Lauren (43:40):
So.

Gabe (43:42):
Yeah, that makes sense.
It makes sense.

Lauren (43:44):
Now, I like the games because yes,
with a lot of effortand focus, a child
on their own could figureit out, but it also just
inspires so much collaboration.
And let's try to work this outtogether and a group
discussion, which is I thinkwhy the games translate so

(44:05):
well over streamingis because we can all
collectively join togetherand say, Oh, I remember
this one thing that welearned previously are you
remember to check this oneplace that we talked about
earlier.
And so communicating outyour thought process where
you're doing what you'relooking for, where you're

(44:27):
stuck andhaving that ability to have
that group togetheris just really interesting.
I remember when I was young,I would see advertisements
in like Cosmo Girland Teen Vogue
full page advertisements forthe next Nancy Drew coming

(44:47):
out because, you know, twowere coming out every year
and so you'd see one andthey'd be like, it's perfect
for a slumber party.
And so their ideal was justtweens and young teens.
All four of themgathered around a computer,
you know, getting to getgetting through a whole
Nancy Drew in one sitting.

G (45:08):
That's awesome. I didn't know that. I've never seen any of
those. So that's really cool.
And I feel like like you'resaying part of the Nancy Drew
experience is experiencingit with someone else.
Like, are you reallyexperiencing an integer if you
don't have someone there withyou and you're both just like
working on it together?

Lauren (45:26):
You know, I think it's really an important piece
of the game is that Nancycan call Beth and George
to talk to talk throughhints, to get hints
like I think it's soimportant that she can phone
a friend andtalk through that, but get
to know them like she cantalk to them without

(45:49):
actively just.
I need a hint.
Like she can learn aboutwhat's going on in their lives
and she can connect withthem. And I think that's so
important for them to beincluding.

Gabe (45:58):
Yes, yes.
But like you're saying thattalking out with them
sometimes that stops you fromneeding to ask from the hint,
simply just saying to them,you won't believe what just
happened, explaining whathappened, and then getting
their feedback.
And sometimes that's like,that is enough for you.
Be like.

Lauren (46:17):
Oh.
I need to go do this, I shoulddo this, yada, yada, yada.
And I felt like that washuge because
who really wants to ask fora hint? You know, you want to
be able to figure it outyourself.
Well, especially in the early games when
they didn't have a journaland they didn't have a to do

(46:38):
list.
Oh, yeah.
And so you reallyI mean, calling friends is
the only way that you couldhave the game remind you of
what you've done.
True. Actually, I forgot aboutthat senior detective I have
in the to do list sometimesI'm like, I miss the
satisfaction of havingdone that yet done that check
that, you know, likethere's something so

(47:02):
satisfying about checkingthose boxes.

Laure (47:05):
There were collections of games where you can kind of
bunch them up together alittle bit.
So between 1998 and 2003,it's kind of the 3 hours
long games, you know, that'sup to Hornet Carousel where
you really could do itin one sitting wasn't too
complicated, pretty linear,so you could just barrel

(47:28):
through if you knew where to go.
Scarlet Hand is a little bitof a longer one for sure,
but for the most part, youknow, treasure in the real
tower, that's a gianthaunted mansion.
Those ones are prettystraightforward.
You can just kind of be bopalong.
And as long as you rememberwhere to find pieces

(47:51):
specifically in HauntedMansion, you can really just
kind of barrel through those.
So there and so those ones Ithink definitely were
created for a younger mindset.
Yeah, so do that.
Up to 2003 is those kind of3 hours long, probably
younger tween and then 2003to 2008.
There's a collection ofgames that's

(48:12):
Deception Island all the waythrough White Wolf, where we
are traveling the world.
We're going to Venice,Ireland, England, Hawaii.
New Orleans, Canada, France.
We're going to the Wild West.
We're going in the PacificNorthwest with the orca as
we're going back in timewith the old clock, like we
are moving and groovingthrough the ages,

(48:32):
which is really fun.
I don't know why theypivoted to all of those
exploration areas,but I think in their early
games, Nancy was justfloating around the U.S.
They were like, Look.
Time to go abroad.

G (48:47):
I think that was I think that was a huge a huge move.
I don't know this for a fact,but I feel like that would
have brought in more people,especially because when they
picked a theme, like theytried to fully embrace it.
And I loved those because youlearned more than just
like Morse code and stuff,like you started learning
languages.

Lauren (49:08):
I think, yeah, I think they started doing
that really after ScarletHand because I think Scarlet
Hand because that one is soeducational.
I think they got such goodfeedback from that about
like, you know, you couldlearn Morse code, you could
learn about the Aztecs.
I think people just reallygravitated to that.

G (49:30):
And I feel like that was also one of my favorite things
of Nancy Drew wasthe educational aspect
and the things you learnedand then how they translated
into like your lifeand how you could use them.

Lauren (49:45):
So after that kind of traveling the world focus.
Then 2009 to 2015, that's wherethat's Waverly Place.
That's all the way throughSea of Darkness.
So we're going spooky.
We're doing much longer games.
There's lots of movement andlocations in the spaces,

(50:06):
so you're going to lots ofdifferent rooms.
There's a lot more loreinvolved. So they kept going
with that.
A lot of education pieces,they moved into kind of a
tiered hint system becausethe games were longer, they
needed a lot more support.
You spend more time buildingrelationships with
characters, so there's a lotmore kind

(50:27):
of side quests involvedand a lot of bits and pieces
like that.
There's just more room toexplore and play adjacent games
or do adjacent tasksthat ultimately do
kind of come together andhelp the real world

(50:48):
and solve the final crime.
But you're doing a varietyof side tasks for a small
character.
So it's just interesting howthat all developed.

Gabe (50:59):
And then I'm like, I think that was a smart move to.
It's now that you've got theinterest, you've captured a
lot of people with the NancyDrew. Now we have to delve
into the lore.
We have to grow the characters.
We have to learn more to keepthem wanting and having played
through the games in order.

(51:19):
One. It's playing them inorder. It's super fun watching
the development, like how theystart getting new technology,
how they start redesigning,how they're keeping Nancy with
the times and like how hercell phone, you know, evolves
and all that.
But also, it was like.
Like I feel that cycleof, okay, you get sucked

(51:41):
in and you're going and you'relike, You just want to do a
mystery. And then all of asudden you're exploring the
world and like, that's what'skeeping you in is you're like,
Okay, I want to see the nextplace.
Because, you know, as a kid,you're not you're not probably
traveling across the worldor maybe not even always as a
young adult.

Laure (51:57):
But you're reading about.

G (51:58):
It adult and generally it is.
Right. Like it's a privilegeto be able to travel the world
and go to those places.
So then to have the game bringthat place to you, you're like
like it's addictive and you'relike, you want to keep going,
but then you're kind of like,But I want more.
And then they suddenly startadding more to the lore.
So like Ithink they did a really bang up.

Laure (52:18):
Job and I think that they aged the games
up with their audience.
You know, they startedeveryone and everyone's
getting introduced.
Young You know, the firstgames, you know, tweens
and then those kindof between 2000
and or 2003 and 2009,you know, when they're

(52:41):
starting to get more of lateteenagers
and then up until 2015, thenwe can start pulling in the
early twenties and so.
So they just keep agingthings up, which is
great for people who arealready fans.
I mean, there are definitelysome of those later games
where I don'tI don't know if a 13 year

(53:03):
old would be able to do iton their own.

Gabe (53:04):
Yeah, true.
But I can still see themwanting to play.
Oh yeah. Liking to play it,like enjoying it and and
knowing how to get that accesson Google like if they need
a little bit of extra help.
Because I feel like when wewere really younger, like when
I was playing these games, Iwas like six, seven, eight
and like trying to accessGoogle on the laptop to get

(53:27):
some help was just nothappening. Not really.

Laure (53:31):
Well, and where would you find help?

Gabe (53:32):
Yeah.

Lauren (53:33):
So there were forums.

Gabe (53:36):
Where it say that you.

Lauren (53:38):
Where would you get by?

Gabe (53:42):
No. Bye bye.
Probably.
I'm trying to remember.
There started to be one by thelike
seventh or eighth, maybe therewas like a website and they
and they were kind of nice tolike they would give you a
section and then give you yoursection so you could try and.

Laur (54:02):
Do it and not get spoiled.
Yeah, it.

Gabe (54:03):
Was like that was where I started.

Lauren (54:05):
Yeah. And then.

Ga (54:07):
I mean, we got midnight and.

Laure (54:08):
Then we have midnight and Salem.
So very controversial game ifyou're not familiar.
There was just this came outin 2019.
There was a really bigshuffling with her
interactive employees.
There was a change in gamestructure and graphics and
style. There is a new voiceactor for Nancy.

(54:29):
For the first time since theGames started coming out,
it was a completelydifferent format.
It was the first game fullyled by the CEO
who started in 2014.

G (54:43):
Well, the big key thing about it, too, is that there is so
there's a mass of time likehuge time gap from the
game before to this.
Like it was a for it was afour years, right.
Because Yeah. Had 2015 to2019, there's a four year gap
throughout that.
Half the time we didn't evenknow if we were getting a next
Nancy Drew game.
And like there is so much backand forth. Are we going to

(55:05):
have it? Are we not going tohave it? What's it going to
be? Which like I feel likefurther fueled everything
else and for context.

Lauren (55:14):
Before this, before or.
Basically up until Seaof Darkness, which came out
in 2015, therewere one, two, two Nancy
games coming out each year.
So having four yearsbetween gains was shocking,

(55:34):
was wild.
We didn't know what to dowith ourselves. We were
totally unsure of whatwas going on with the
company, with thelayoffs that were going on,
with just all of theshenanigans.
We truly just had no ideawhat was happening.
And yeah, then Salem cameout in 2019.

Gabe (55:54):
I got a lot of flashback.
Because they weren'tcommunicating with the fans.
They got huge lash backbecause of their inability to
communicate what was going on.

Lauren (56:05):
Yeah.
And we haven't had anyofficial announcement of a
new game since 2019.
So.
Yeah, TBD, I guess.
So thinking about thefuture, there have
been a lot of attempts atmaking the games mobile or

(56:28):
iPad or Kindle or WIor Nintendo DS
or there's so many otherplatforms that they have
also launched nature games on.
It's kind of companion pieces asopposed to a traditional PC
format.
Which is interesting.

Ga (56:48):
Wait. Before we do that, you have to give us your 62nd
opinion on Salem, because Iknow you have huge
feelings about that game.
We want to hear it.

Lauren (56:59):
I want to hear how.

Gabe (57:02):
It needs to be done.

Lauren (57:03):
So my super quick.
Midnight in Salem.
Peace.
Is that.
I.
Know that they spent a lotof time updating the
graphics, updating the movestyle from kind of their
traditional point and click.
There's just a lot moremobility.
There's a whole new 3D style ofgraphics.

(57:29):
I think it's fine.
I don't I don't think it's worthlosing out on other pieces
of the game for that.
But I think it's fine.
I am sad that we lost our voice.
Actress for Nancy Drew,Lorna and Loni Manila.
Loni Manila. Yes, I miss her.

(57:54):
At the same time, she wasdoing the games for 32
games. So I ultimately can't betoo upset that they switched
her out.
It's definitely a bummer.
But, you know, stuff happens.
And if that'swhat made sense to have
a younger person who iscloser to the business, fine. I.

(58:20):
I'm bummed, but I can'tfault them for that.
But I can't fault them for is.
So they changed the gamestructure. They changed our
favorite lead actress.
Our favorite voice actress.
They also changed up theentire format of the
game. So it's verymuch functions as a graphic

(58:40):
novel kind of thingor like a story.
It functions more as a storyrather than a mystery.
Yeah, they minimizethe puzzles until the very
end. So they spend the firsthalf of the game focusing
so much on building out thestory.
Most of the Nancy Drew gameshave five characters, maybe at

(59:02):
maximum.
And then you're figuring outwhodunit.
The nine Salem has like15 characters, and you have
to get to know every singleone of them. And so that's
why the first half of the game,it's exhausting because
you're sitting aroundgetting to know each of
these characters.
Every single one of them isunlikable, and you're

(59:24):
going around enjoying thevibes of Salem learning
a little bit, butnot anywhere near enough
about some of theinteresting facts of Salem.
So you're just walkingaround talking with people
who suckand not doing any puzzles.
And then the second half.

(59:45):
Mm hmm. Then they're rushingthrough the plot because all
of a sudden they realize,Oh, gosh, we have to get
through the rest of the plot.
And so then the second half,they move through the plot
so quickly, you don't knowwhat's going on.
They throw some genuinelyvery good puzzles in at
the end. Like I reallyenjoy with their new
mobility, what you can dowith the puzzles, they make

(01:00:07):
them more 3D, you're able todo a bit more
movement with them.
So I enjoyed the puzzles.
I had a great time.
I would have loved for themto have removed dialog
from the front, so theydidn't frontload it.
Spend more time building outthe actual plot,
sprinkling out the puzzlesbetter throughout the game.

(01:00:30):
And I think then we wouldhave been like math.
It's whatever.
But like, I don't thinkanyone would have been mad
about it.

Gabe (01:00:37):
Midnight consume is almost too linear.
Like Yes Nazis.
Your games are kind of in asense linear, but there still
is a little bit of that senseof like open worlds.
You're still kind of makingyour own decisions and doing
things at your own pace.
You're not.
Forced down thisone path in a specific order.

(01:00:59):
And Midnight in Salem was verymuch that.
And I think that was like ahuge.
Drawback, because some of thebeauty of Nancy Drew is you.
Like it's more realistic to amystery, you doing bits and
pieces and trying to figure itout and going back to here
and then, okay, maybe I can dothis now and that and that and

(01:01:19):
that. You know.

Lauren (01:01:20):
It's because, say, a too many characters, not only
did they have too manysuspects, but we also
had Nancy as the main detective.
Then we had Deirdre as asecondary detective.
And then we brought in Frankand Joe Hardy to be.
Third and fourth detectiveand we transfer into Frank

(01:01:41):
and Joe as we do things.
Frank Joe did not need to beinvolved or Deirdre didn't
need to be involved.
Why did we have fourdifferent detectives?
We never act as Deirdre.
We call her several times.
She's mean and sassy to us.
She's the one who gets usinvolved in the mystery.
She could have gotten usinvolved in the mystery with
the phone call and then notbeen there. Like we didn't

(01:02:02):
need to have her as a sidecharacter.
We transfer into Frank and Joeseveral times
during good puzzles.
I don't know why we couldn'thave transferred either into
Deirdre or just kept asNancy and let Nancy do the
puzzles.
I do not understand whywe're like, Oh, we got to

(01:02:24):
break them off.
I.
I don't get it.

Gabe (01:02:29):
To be fair, I do like that. Do you?
Like, I agree with what you'resaying, but I.
I did enjoy that deja wasthere because.
So many times in the series,she. She's almost like an arch
nemesis to Nancy.
Like, not quite, but.
But almost.
And you're just. You haveI had such contempt for

(01:02:51):
Deirdre, and I was asa sometimes I was ready to
toss hands on her, especiallythe way she would come onto
Ned like this.
That's my Ned.
Excuse me, lady.
So I love thatwe finally got her.
And to see her in a good lightand to be able to talk and get
to know her more and,like, form a connection with

(01:03:13):
her and an actual genuine bondwith her. And not just.
So I liked that.
Yeah.

Lauren (01:03:19):
But I also agree with you.
Well, sign we can keep Deirdre.
We can just get rid of theHardy Boys, then.
I totally have one.
One of them needs to go.
One of them can go.
We don't need.

Gabe (01:03:32):
But also.
I thirst trap the Hardy Boys alittle bit.
Just sayin.
However, this thisalso extremely peeved
me about the gamethat is so shady.
I know you are not a fan ofNed. I love Ned.
I feel like Ned was has beendone an injustice throughout

(01:03:55):
the whole Nancy Drew gameslike he really has.
And I just wantthem to finally make the game
where Nancy and Ned aretogether, solving a case for
they can flesh out hischaracter and
we can grow to love him.
And I hate thatfreaking midnight in Salem.

(01:04:16):
He's being shady.
I was like, Man, if you'recheating on me.

Lauren (01:04:22):
Oh, I'm about to.

Gabe (01:04:23):
Come over there.
And part of me is ashoping that maybe this is
the setup for the game wherefinally they're going to,
because I think it's hinted atthat maybe they need to go on
vacation and obviously they goon vacation together.
You know, what's going toconveniently happen.
And so.
If they make another game.
I super, super, superhope the next game is finally

(01:04:47):
Ned.

Lauren (01:04:48):
Absolutely.

Gabe (01:04:49):
I want Ned.

Laur (01:04:50):
They say it multiple times in Salem.
Yeah. About how.
Nancy. Take a vacation.
I think one of the finallines is she's promising,
Ned, that the two of themare going to go away together.
So absolutely.
They set it up.

Gabe (01:05:07):
I, I thought so.
But it was 2019 that I lastplayed the game. So I was
like, you know, three years.
But yes, I yeah, I'mpretty sure they set it up so
they, they damn well better doit. But also we've had I don't
feel like we've heard anythingfrom them. So is there even a
chance of another game?

Lauren (01:05:23):
There are rumors about a variety of things.
There are rumors that theyhave applied for
a new name, trademarkfor a game.
There have been,you know, ideas that
maybe they are.

(01:05:44):
Hyping everything up andgetting ready to sell.
I watch.
Honestly, I think it's asmart move.
I think ifthey are not happy with the
money that they're making,just making their one brand,
then I think it makes senseto sell the brand to a
game company that creates games.

Gabe (01:06:07):
Yeah.

Lauren (01:06:08):
That can be like, okay, we're going to have Nancy
Drew as one of our lines ofgames.
I mean, they have no employeesright now.

Gabe (01:06:15):
Yeah.

Lauren (01:06:16):
Just marketing people.
Oh. So.
They're going to outsourcethe games anyway.
So I do think thatthey're working to really
build up the brand andreally make everyone happy
and excited and rabid andfoaming at the mouth for a
neo-Nazi Nazi game so that theycan.

(01:06:38):
Get the hype up, getsomebody really interested
and then sell it off.
I think that's.
What they are hoping for?

Gabe (01:06:50):
I think it's entirely possible because.
Partially when we've talkedabout this before, Nancy,
you're started to gaintraction on Twitch.
And like I've been on Twitchfor a long time and I have
played the games off and onfor a long time and you know.

(01:07:10):
2016, 2017, 2018.
There really was not a wholelot like every time I looked
when I played, there was not awhole lot of Nancy Drew.
There's not a whole lot ofNancy Drew streamers.
I wasn't getting people inhappening to look for that
niche game because like, youknow, when you're playing that
nature, you sometimes get alot of new people coming in,
whether they follow or not,but just coming in because

(01:07:33):
that's like such a favoritegame of them. And for them to
see someone playing such aniche game, they get so excited.
So like, that wasn't happeningwith Nancy Drew.
And it was like 2019.
There started to.
It was like a ripple througheveryone.
The hype for midnight in Salem.

(01:07:54):
Would midnight in Salem begood? Would it live up to
the Nancy Drew?
And it was like suddenly I sawsome bigger streamers
picking up the gamesreminisce, especially girl
streamers or female streamers,reminiscing about, you know,
the old times of like asa kid, you know, huddling

(01:08:15):
together in front of a laptopwith their friend playing the
game.
And there's likethis week where I swear
on everything, every person Isaw suddenly had discovered
shadow at the water's edge,and everyone was streaming
it, and they were like, Man, Ireally love this.
This is so good.

(01:08:35):
Which granted, that is aclassic. Like, I really love
that one.
They fully want the Japanesehorror and I absolutely loved
that about it.
And and I waslike, oh, my goodness.
Suddenly people know NancyDrew. I've never met another
person who knew Nancy Drewexcept for like, you know, my
couple of friends.
And so it was like theresuddenly there there's hype

(01:08:57):
about it and then.
Then nine Salem came outand it was it was actually
huge. Like there is actuallya lot of people and a lot of
bigger people whowho played it the day it came
out like the second came out,started streaming it well.

Laur (01:09:16):
They were doing, you know, promotions and contests
and whatnot for peoplepre-ordering the game through.
They do this for a lot oftheir games.
One of my favorite thingsthat they do is they
routinely are like the first500 people who order a
preorder a game from likeher interactive dot com or a
specific game are going toreceive a single Coco

(01:09:38):
Kringle candy bar.
It cracks me up.
But they were doing Oh, itwasn't Midnight Salem.
It was Sea of darkness.
When they were doing Sea ofDarkness, they were giving
out Microsoft Services.
They had a contest forpreorders where one
random person would wintickets to Iceland
like. So they were doing alot of those kind of promo

(01:10:01):
pieces.
And people, you know, hadmixed feelings about those
kind of big promos,especially when
there was layoffs happening.
Right.

Gabe (01:10:13):
The thing is, though, for at least from my perspective
of what I was seeing onTwitch, the people
who were playing it andsuddenly playing it, they
weren't following this likethey weren't seeing all of the
marketing.
They were simply interestedin it because they had heard
the rumblings of the hypeof the game.

(01:10:34):
They had no ideanecessarily what the Nancy
Drew games were.

Lauren (01:10:39):
And it's spooky.
It's about witches.

Gabe (01:10:41):
Yeah. Yeah.
And like, someof them just had absolutely no
context of Nancy's.
You had no idea.
But like, they heard therumblings, there was the small
bit of hype and somehow it hadso much hype. There's so many
I wish I knew.
Like what?
What? That the thecategory peaked at for
viewers. Like, I really wish Iwould have looked because it

(01:11:03):
was truly mindblowing. And then after that,
there was suddenly likeand and you talked about this
when you were talking aboutyour twitch journey.
And the last episodethere started to be a Nancy
Drew stream in community.
Like I after that,that game, suddenly
people started screaming andmore they started to think,

(01:11:26):
just say to themselves, youknow, even not
very many people come andwatch because of the
nostalgia, because I love thisgame, I want to stream it.
And we just, you know, youRuby, Abby,
a ton of people startedstreaming it and it was
it was beautiful. I cried alittle bit and like.

(01:11:48):
Yeah, so I.
I think they could get enoughof the hype.
They could showenough of the love for this
game, for this series, forthis character, that a company
would buy the rightsand take it over.
My only worry is, would theydo it justice?

(01:12:10):
I feel like that would be thebig fear.

Lauren (01:12:12):
I think hopefully enough people shared their feelings
about Midnight and Salemthat there should be a
really good.
Yeah.
Should be a good amount offeedback to take
on into the next venture.
What did you know about AmeliaDarnell? Before I told you
about this?
I have been hearing rumblings about Amelia

(01:12:33):
Darnell prettysoon after I started streaming.
Because rightafter I started streaming,
Nancy Drew's.
Because as soon as I startedand joined this community.

Gabe (01:12:44):
The first it's.

Lauren (01:12:45):
Probably yeah, I.

G (01:12:47):
Think I was because I think I had stumbled across this game
before I played Salem.
I messed up. I really musthave. I think that's what
happened. So yeah, because Iwas doing my first place,
you're beginning to end goingthrough each of the games and
I don't know how I found it.
I must have been Googlingsomething about Nancy Drew.
And I saw it wasit was like a story about

(01:13:09):
how talking aboutthem, you know.
Getting rid of firing orparting ways with Lani Manila.
Wanting Manila.
No.
Yes.
You struggle other than I likebut anyways.
And they talking about how shehad started talking to.

(01:13:35):
A group.
I thought it was the community,but I guess maybe some of the
original game devs alsojoined in. Yeah.
And they had been, you know.
They were they were upsetabout Melanie.
Wanting to knowwhy are you being laid off?
And they were, I think,worried about the new game.

(01:13:58):
And they're frustrated whenthe new game did come out and
they had started working on aNancy Drew ESQ game.
And obviously the maincharacter would be Amelia
Darnell and is goingto be voiced by Lonnie Manila.
So we get we get Nancy Drew asa not Nancy Drew.

Lauren (01:14:18):
And but Amelia is going to be an early twenties
female detective.
So she did get aged up a bit.
I think she works.
She just.
Graduated with her degree.
Oh, my gosh. Hold on.

Gabe (01:14:32):
Yeah, I think so.
But also I like that she'searly twenties because to me,
Nancy Drew was earlytwenties. Like even though I
knew theoretically she was inhigh school, to me she
was always early twenties,which for some reason as a
child that made her morerelatable to me.
Like I like that she was likethat.
Don't ask me why.
I don't know.

(01:14:53):
But yeah.
So I guess, yeah.
I, she must be catering to the.
The original NancyDrew fans are like the people
who grew up with him andaged with Nancy.
And.
There is a Twitter theygive, I would say,
semi-regular updates on it.

(01:15:14):
You get little teasersof, you know, hour as they
finish it or maybe some plotas they finish it.

La (01:15:22):
Yeah. And they are airtight.
Underscore alibi.
Yes.

Gabe (01:15:27):
Which I thought was funny.
It made me think about alibiand actions.
Uh, I don't.
I don't think there's a.
Estimate for when it will bedone.
But I think they had madesome like huge or monumental
progress in the past coupleof months, like got some much

(01:15:50):
needed people working on itthat they needed to.
Maybe because this.

Lauren (01:15:54):
Is.

Ga (01:15:54):
Not speed up the process but get things.

Lauren (01:15:57):
Yeah. Most of the people working on this, this is not
their day job.
So most of the people doingthis are absolutely just and
volunteering their time,putting in the effort to
create a game similarto the ones they love.

Gabe (01:16:13):
Oh, and there is a demo.
It's not it's not very long.
It's like a ten, five, 10minutes. But
I thought I quite enjoyed thedemo. I don't know if you've
played it, but I was like, Oh,this is like a updated
Nancy Drew game.
So thank you. It definitelygave me hope for the

(01:16:33):
game. And I'm I'm reallyexcited for it.
The Nancy Drew we didn't know.
Or maybe the message we alwayswanted.

Lau (01:16:46):
Yes, but no pressure to the team.

Gabe (01:16:49):
No pressure.
No pressure.
I think I think we're justwe're going to have to do a
part to later on becausethere's so much more we could
talk about, about Nancy.
But.
I learned a lot.
I don't know if you did.
I.
Learned a lot.

Lauren (01:17:07):
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Now, I had a grand old timeresearching, and the.

Gabe (01:17:14):
Grand.

Lauren (01:17:14):
Old time reading old articles about
what was going on when thenew CEO came in.
And, you know, theNew York Times article
calling Nancy the UN Barbie,which, again, fascinating.
Oh, my God.

Gabe (01:17:31):
It truly is a rabbit hole going like looking at the
company and watching herinteractive and all the things
they went through and the CEOsand how that affected things.
But they still managed to do,you know, one or two games a
year, which is wild.

Lau (01:17:46):
And they had a tiny team, I think it was like 50 people
maybe, um,who were putting out two
games a year, which is.
Incredible.
But I mean, when you onlyhave five
characters in each game,it it makes a lot more sense

(01:18:06):
versus midnight in Salem,where they had, you know,
twice the size of the cast.
And they had abunch of locations, which
you really didn't interactwith. But they looked cool,
I guess.

Ga (01:18:18):
I think it's more meaningful when you have the smaller
cast, like you really do getto know the characters grow
attached to them,especially because.
Like you see references to alot of the people because
there's so few people in eachgame.
Like a lot of them kindof stay throughout the series.
They may not. They're memorablelately, reappear in another

(01:18:41):
game, but theywill get referenced.
Maybe we call them, youknow, you know something.
And so there's trulysomething special about having
the smaller list and.
And really bonding with thecharacters.

Lauren (01:18:59):
Mm hmm.
And having them all beviable suspects.

Gabe (01:19:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right. I think.
I think we're ready for a teaparty. Tea time.
I need a sip.
I'm parched.

Lauren (01:19:11):
We're really.
I'm short little Tea Party, but.
So I'm back in my hometownfor, you know, how sitting
at my parents.
And we've been goingout to dinner in a couple
places.
And the first placewe went out to dinner,

(01:19:32):
we were served by a girl whois, I think, a year
younger than me in high school.
And, you know, she had beena cheerleader and the whole
thing. And we werecognized each other
and she was really, reallynice. And it
was just funny because Ihadn't seen her probably
since before I graduated.

(01:19:52):
So, you know, it's been 11years.
Not a lot of people frommy hometown stay
in the hometown.
So it just always throws me.
There is a there isn'treally a 20 something
crowd that lives there.
So you it's really obvious whenthere is something there.

Gabe (01:20:18):
Is there a reason why people don't typically stay
around?

Lauren (01:20:22):
Like it has really good schools.
It.
So there are a lot offamilies who want to be
there for schools.
But once their kidsare grown, then the parents
want to move.
And so even if the kids, thegrown kids are still
living with their parents,then they all just scooch,

(01:20:44):
which there is no reason tostay where they are
necessarily without theschools because
it's not super convenient toget into the closest city.
There's just if you're notthere for the schools and some
other, you know, reasons, thenthere's not really a true

(01:21:05):
reason to stay, especiallyif you're in your twenties
and trying to go off andmake a career and a life for
yourself.

Gabe (01:21:12):
Why did your parents stay?

Laur (01:21:14):
Well, we've been trying to get them to move for truly
so long to get closer to usbecause it takes they
don't live that far away,but because of the routes
you have to take.
It takes like 3 hours to getto their house. So it's
truly an all day excursion.
So my parents are alwayslike, Oh, you should come
over. You should come hangout, spend time with us.

(01:21:36):
And I'm like, well, if youlived, you know,
less than an hour away.

Gabe (01:21:42):
By an hour's.
Okay. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

Lauren (01:21:45):
An hour hour's fine.
My sister moved, so she's 12minutes drive from me.
And so I'm over there allthe time, and my mother is
just so jealous.

Gabe (01:21:54):
Right. Come closer, Mom.
Come closer.
And you can join the slumberparty.

Lauren (01:21:58):
You know, you can also come and hang out with my
sisters, Don.
So your grand puppies.

Ga (01:22:05):
Because 3 hours turns into 6 hours, right? Because you're
saying it's 3 hours one way.
Yeah. Like that's half a dayalready gone. Just having to
drive. Right.

Lauren (01:22:15):
So, yeah, it's madness.

Gabe (01:22:17):
They served you.
You recognized?

Lauren (01:22:20):
Yes.
So it was fine. I dropped myphone case into my pizza
because I got nervous, butit's whatever.
And I justwasn't expecting to see
someone I knew, and so Ijust kind of. Anyway, it was
a whole thing. And then weleft from that place

(01:22:42):
to go get a drink anddessert at another place
down the street.
And thenone of the absolute most
popular girls from mygraduating class served us
my cheesecake.
And I she recognize me, but Idon't think she knew my name

(01:23:03):
because she did not use it.
And I was like, That's okay,that's fine.

Gabe (01:23:06):
So did did she try to say anything to you? Did she give
you any looks or was it justkind of like, oh, I recognize
she was really friendly.

Laure (01:23:13):
She was just like, oh, my gosh, I haven't seen you in
so long. And so we had alovely little chat.
Just friendly, happy, perky,perky.
Oh.

Gabe (01:23:27):
I don't know. I wasn't popular, but I knew.
I knew every kid in my class,all 500 plus of them.
At one point in time, I had aclass with them.
I talked to them and I wasfriends.
Like friends.
Not close friends, but friendswith, I would say a vast
majority of them, which isinteresting because I had gone

(01:23:49):
to a Catholic school caserate. So when I went
to high school, I was like thenew weird shiny toy.
Like, What the heck?
Because a lot of them hadknown each other, mainly from
middle schools, because weonly had two middle schools
you come from, and a lot ofthem knew each other.

(01:24:09):
So like a lot of people I knewlike that, they didn't know me.
However, I did know some ofthe girls because I had done a
lot of in-house.

Lauren (01:24:17):
Sports.

Gabe (01:24:18):
In elementary and middle school.
But it was yeah,it was very interesting.
Freshman year was aninteresting year, trying to
get to know people, especiallybecause for some reason,
freshman year, every day inclass was like, we're going to
have a discussion or peoplehave to be called to the front
of the classroom and then theyhave to call on other people.

(01:24:39):
And obviously because nobodyknew me, they weren't going to
call on.
And like it was awkwardbecause like you were
required, you were essentiallyrequired to be called on
when you didn't have the powerto make sure someone called on
you. It was it was absolutelyterrible.
But I do remember.
His history this one dayin history.

(01:25:02):
One of the popular kids.
He finally he had the braveryto call on me.
He was like squinting at myname sign, trying to figure
out how to say my name.
And then he ended up sittingnext to me and I.
Ironically became kind of goodfriends. The popular guys like
really jockey popular guys,and suddenly it was all okay.

(01:25:24):
And I became friends with alot of people and I talk to
everybody and.

Laur (01:25:28):
There is like a subsection of, like, popular
jock guys who are really sweet.
And they.

Gabe (01:25:38):
Like. Yeah.

Lauren (01:25:40):
Yeah. And they will be friends.
With people and you're like,How are you doing? What's
happening here?

Gabe (01:25:48):
Oh, I loved I loved them.
I loved sitting next toin class. And they would so
my last name I'm going to Doxmyself was cool.
And they wouldthey thought that was so
funny. And they were like, Quit.
Quit fooling around orfool me once.
Shame on you.

(01:26:09):
Fool me twice.
Shame on me.
And like theythey had a lot of they they
went with it. And so I wasoften referenced as
cool or I would hear thatlike shouted down the hallways.
It really touched my heart.
I felt like I was on thefootball team.

Lauren (01:26:27):
Just a star player.

Gabe (01:26:29):
I am I am one with the jocks.
I'm getting called by my lastname. I made it.
Yes.
It was truly so good.
I would say my really good myreally good friends for like.
I freaking love the bandnerds. I love the heck out

(01:26:49):
of them. I was not abandoned.
But those are the kids.
Those are the ones.
Strange but fun feeder.
Love me my theater kids.
Those are probably.

Lauren (01:27:01):
Yell at me.
I was a theater kid.

Gabe (01:27:06):
Let's go love them.
Those are like my sympatico.
I was not in either of thosethings, but boy did I love
those kids.
And I loved going andsupporting them. Going to the
concerts, going to thetheater. I was like.

Lauren (01:27:22):
That's my baby.

Gabe (01:27:26):
So.
That's interesting.
I was like, I,I like seeing people
when I'm, like, walking aroundbecause I like a lot of the,
like, parents stay in thistown. The kids might not, but
the parents do.
So you'll see the kids in like.
Like I see a lot of myclassmates in like Target or
whatever because they've goneshopping for their parents or

(01:27:46):
whatever and.
I don't know. I love it.
It's fun to see where they'vegrown. And it always touches
my heart that they remember mebecause a lot of them, like,
we weren't good friends, butlike.
We were friends. And so I knowI was like.

La (01:28:02):
I touched your little heart.

Gabe (01:28:07):
I was also that kid.
I was that nerdy kid whocarried the popular kids
because I did my homework andI did it well, and they
definitely would come over tome and be like.
So yes.
Next episode, I guess.
I don't know the way to talkabout the like I think we're

(01:28:28):
going to be talking about likewhat is gaming in 2020 to like
what is gaming now?
And that kind of makes sense.
And like maybe like what's thecurrent technology for gaming
and like what's coming outthis year and you know, what
kind of that kind of stuff.
Which I'm actually kind ofexcited for.
Tell your friends.
Tell your family.

(01:28:50):
Okay. Yes.
Please leave a review if youwant that.
Spread the love we want touse. I don't know.
That's how I got I don't knowwhat you give me an amazing.

Lauren (01:28:58):
I love it. Okay.
We love you all.
Bye bye.