"Coming Of Age"

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There's something interesting online, Jay.

(00:02):
I'd love to hear what you think about this.
If you had a choice between getting paid $500,000 in cash
or lunch with Jay-Z, which would you choose?
You gotta take the money.
What am I gonna say?
You got me everything now I'm gonna say?
No, only because people say, of course you take lunch
with Jay-Z because the wisdom that you would get from him

(00:24):
would be so beneficial to you.
There would only be a matter, you would take the money?
Yeah, because you got all that in the music for $10.99.
That's a bad deal.
I wouldn't tell you to cut a bad deal.
I don't know.
Take the $500,000, go buy some albums
and listen to the albums.
It's all there.
If you piece it together and really listen to the music

(00:46):
for the words for what it is, it's all there.
Everything that I said was gonna happen,
happen, everything that I said I wanted to do, I've done.
And there's the blueprint.
The blueprint literally to me and my life and my journey
is there already.
This is our life and this is what we want

(01:07):
and this is what we gonna get.
And if it means doing this or doing that,
it's the Scarface mentality.
You ever see the read the posters and at the end line
it says, he lived the American dream with a vengeance.
It's the best line in the world,
but that sums up everybody coming from the bottom
and trying to get up to the top, to the top, to the top,
to the top, to the top, to the top.

(01:29):
Yo man, what's good with you?
What's good, what's good?
How you feeling?
What up, what up man?
I'm good man, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling good.
Late to the party while I'm here.
Oh yeah man, that's all that matters man.
I just got through with my morning run man.
I got my green tea and I'm feeling good, I'm feeling good.
I got my coffee.
We caffeinated and we ready.

(01:51):
Oh yeah.
Man, it's crazy cause it's a local coffee shop
not too far from me that I go to.
I was just like, okay, I'm gonna go to them every Monday.
Usually with like extreme or avid coffee drinkers,
if they do it at a set time, they want it at that set time.
I got done with my morning run.

(02:12):
I got done around late six.
This was yesterday.
Man, the coffee shop wasn't even open.
It's just the crazy part.
It was like, we open, but we not taking orders right now.
So I'm guessing they was open,
but they had to get the machine up and running
and things like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I was just like, man, I tried to order it quite.

(02:33):
Did you wait?
I don't know where, but I got some coffee from somewhere else.
Yeah man, they gotta be up early for the runners.
That's what I'm saying man.
People got their set time
and it's a lot of competition as far as local coffee shops.
I think it's like three in my area
that's family based and small business on

(02:53):
and so there's competition in that.
So you gotta be right.
You gotta be right.
You gotta be available.
You gotta have like the best ability is availability.
So you gotta be on time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like that, man.
Yeah, coffee.
So coffee is a big market out there.
I mean, yeah.
I mean, I think it's, yeah.

(03:14):
You can say that, yeah.
There's a lot of coffee drinkers in my area.
I use it for like just purposes of,
okay, if I got some like a business meeting
or if I got a business to handle,
I'm trying to start my week off.
I usually take it that way.
Where, where?
Where, yeah, I miss New York
because of all the coffee spots.
That was a big thing.

(03:36):
I'm trying to open a coffee shop, man.
That'll be dope.
I'm gonna give it like another, maybe like five years.
But I definitely wanna open it.
Yeah, I wanna open a coffee spot.
Yeah, man.
So here we are.
Another episode, bro.
Another episode we locked in.
It's a new installment of the I Hate This Industry podcast,

(03:57):
man.
I think it's only right
because I know we a little late to the party,
but I think it's only right that we pop out.
We talk about the pop out.
The pop out.
Man, I enjoy that shit, bro.
I'm not gonna lie.
I had my I Hate Drake cap on.
I was...
I haven't listened to no Drake

(04:18):
not at all.
since this Kendrick thing.
Nah, the pop out was fire.
It was fire.
Shout out to Amazon for doing they thing, man.
They, that was big.
That was a good look for hip hop,
a good look for the culture,
a good look for the West Coast.
And they production was amazing on there.
I don't know if that was them
or if that was Kendrick's people,
but that live stream was, was fire.

(04:40):
I mean, that lineup was crazy, bro.
That every, every, everything was good.
They ain't miss a beat.
Everything was good.
Everybody came out and went crazy.
Yeah, yeah, man.
What was your favorite set besides the Kendrick?
Man, and I've been playing this song all week
and all weekend.

(05:00):
I like the Ray Vaughn set.
I like the Ray Vaughn.
Ray Vaughn is, he signed the TDE
and I think he maybe did one or two songs,
maybe one, I can't remember.
But I know he performed one of my favorite songs
about him was called Problems,
about him and Pusha T.
Man, that was, whoo.
I gotta see that record, man.

(05:22):
That's a powerful record, man.
Like I said, he a young dude.
I'm not sure where he from.
I wanna say probably, he's from Cali.
That was everybody that was on stage was from Cali.
So yeah, man, he got a song called Problems with Pusha T.
That was one of my favorites.
I wasn't expecting Tyler Curator to come out.
That was dope.
That was dope.
That was literally my, that's in my top three

(05:43):
of the sets for the night was that Tyler Curator set.
That was dope.
That was so fire.
The Steve Lacey one was dope.
I like the West Side Boogie set.
The Tommy the Clown was dope.
Tommy the Clown was dope.
Tommy the Clown, like I always heard about him
and I've seen him before, but I wasn't just hip to that.
And like the presence and the spotlight

(06:04):
they gave him was well deserved.
Yeah, the super West Coast.
Oh yeah, and what I'm just hearing the people
from the West Coast talk about him.
They talk about him like a Dr. Dre.
They talking about him like a Snoop Dogg, like a Nipsey.
Like he's a legend to them.
If anybody else on the outside,
they don't really understand and I'm on the outside
so I can only go by what they are saying.

(06:26):
So yeah, man, that was dope, man.
That was dope.
What about you?
Yeah, Tommy the Clown set was fire.
I saw, there was a movie that came out years ago.
I think it was called Rides or something like that.
It was about the history behind Crump.
That's what I first heard of Tommy the Clown.
So it was dope seeing him like that.
He's a legend out there.
Steve Lacey was fire, but my, all of the sets was fire.
My favorite, my favorite sets are the Tyler Creator set,

(06:50):
the West Side Boogie set, or the YG set.
Man, the YG set was so hard.
Yeah, those are my favorite.
They were all good, but those are my favorites.
That Kendrick set, man.
Oh, Dre's set was pretty cool too.
It was low key, but it was cool.
I liked the transition into how he introduced the record.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
That was cool.
Oh yeah.

(07:10):
Yeah, that was dope, man.
That was, I was crit walking the whole time, man.
I go like, I was crit walking the whole time.
It just, I don't even know how to crit walk.
I was just dancing, man.
It was just, man, it was truly.
In hip hop.
Oh yeah.
It was truly a moment that we'll never forget.
Like that was a moment in hip hop history that was,
that's forever going to be cemented into like forever.

(07:32):
And what Kendrick did for the city, for the state,
and it was just, man, like I felt like
I was almost a part of it.
Like as far as West Coast, cause you know,
Nipsey is one of my favorite artists
and they did a dedication to Nipsey.
The tribute.
And man, that was, that was powerful, man.
That was powerful.

(07:53):
And it was just a moment that I loved that I witnessed it
as far as the live stream, but I know being there
was just a different set of emotions altogether.
Yeah.
I imagine that was, that was, that was like a,
a, a, unhuman experience.
There was so much energy in that, in that arena.

(08:15):
Yeah. I really liked the Nip tribute too.
I liked the sets that, that Kendrick did, the songs.
I liked that he didn't just focus on like the dish records.
He kind of went into this whole set and he, he just had that.
He kept the energy.
He was so chill and relaxed the whole time.
He was so like, his energy wasn't even that, that crazy.
He was like so relaxed.
He had everything going nuts.
I liked, have you seen the memes of, of him doing like the Drake dance

(08:39):
from Hotline Blank?
Yeah, I seen it. I seen it.
And I was like, yo, was this intentional?
I definitely think it was intentional.
Definitely think it was intentional.
Definitely was.
Kendrick is a wild dude.
Yo, I see a lot of hate though.
I've seen a lot of hate coming for Kendrick because of that.
I, you know what I see a lot too, people going,

(09:00):
cause he was shooting the video I think yesterday.
And I saw a lot of people going that we're tired of this song
and that he's running this into the ground.
There's this misconception out there.
I'm going to say this.
I want everybody to listen.
This is truly a misconception.
This is not factual by any means.
I've seen this narrative that Kendrick is using this moment to become relevant

(09:22):
and stay relevant.
I want y'all to know Kendrick has never not been relevant in the past,
what, 10 years?
Absolutely.
The idea that people are saying that Kendrick is using this disc record
and this moment and like this whole Drake thing to like stay relevant,
stay hot is insane.
The music has always been good.
He makes some of the best albums in hip hop.

(09:45):
It's crazy.
When I saw that, I'm like, damn man, they go hard, man.
They, you certified lover boys, man.
They go hard.
Man, y'all don't really listen to hip hop because Kendrick needing Drake to stay relevant is nuts.
It's just a good, it was a great, it was a great battle of, of the different styles of hip hop.
How can we run, how can Kendrick run a record into the ground when the record is just popping?

(10:08):
It's just a hot record.
We have never done that with, with artists who catch hot records.
When Drake got a hot record, it's the record of the summer.
I've seen Drake have records that go for two summers, three summers even.
So it's like, we have this record, which is hot, is on fire right now.
The fact that there's a narrative going, he's running this record into the ground is crazy.
Like, nah, you're supposed to shoot a video to it.

(10:29):
You're supposed to build things around this, this record, this hot record to make it go, especially if you got an album coming.
Why not?
I just think it is, is wow.
Especially considering when we had Drake with the back to back record and that record was everywhere.
It was like, what are we talking about?
I mean, yeah, like as far as that narrative, I think I heard a scene like a little bit of it on Twitter.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, that's the generation, unfortunately, that we, that we in now as far as it goes back to

(10:55):
like just releasing music and people just leave it where it's at.
They don't continue to promote it, then promote it, then promote it.
Like people want, people want product at the product, at the product, at the product without nurturing and without giving life to something that's already there.
That's already a moment that's being created.

(11:17):
And so, yeah, I mean, it's very unfortunate that people see it like that.
And so looking at it from my point of view is just like, man, that's a record that's I'ma play forever.
That's a record that's like just going to be cemented into my playlist forever.
Right. Yeah. And hip hop also like, and just like back to back, like these records are being played at basketball games.

(11:43):
Like I was watching the WNBA game the other day and they played their record after Angel Reese in Chicago, Sky Warren.
So like, I'm like, man, this is the record of the summer.
Like this is it. If people didn't have any questions about it, then this is now, this is it.
This is the record of the year. This is damn near the record of the year.

(12:06):
So like, it's something that's inevitable. So they can't run from it. You can't run from it.
Yeah, you can't. And to like try to cut the legs off of Kendrick is crazy. That's King Kunta, man. Come on.
He not playing with you at all.
And even going back to the show, like him opening up with the long sample version of Euphoria.

(12:27):
Man, I forgot. I forgot. Yo, this record has been hot. It's like it's gone so big. I forgot how good Euphoria was.
Man, listen, that's my, like I said on the other pod, that's on the other episode, that's my favorite one.
That's my favorite diss record. Yeah.
Like only because of course it resonates to certain situations in my life.
So like, like that's my favorite one. Like that's the one I go to the most. Yeah.

(12:52):
Over Not Like Us, even 616 in LA. Like that's, I think Not Like Us is probably my third favorite one.
Yeah, I actually, I love Not Like Us. I like Euphoria better as far as it being, I'm just, I just like the introspective records better.
But Family Matters is up there for me, man. That's number two.
If it's Euphoria, it's Family Matters after, because Family Matters is such a good record, man. It's such a good record.

(13:17):
Yeah, it is a good record.
It just, Kendrick stepped on it. So it's like, what you gonna do? But it's such a good record and it deserves that.
And Drake is chilling, man. See, this conversation will keep going.
Because I don't think it's over for Drake. He's losing a lot of steam.
I don't think that the industry is gonna look at him the same anymore. But who knows? I could be wrong.

(13:40):
Drake is, Drake is incredible. Like, so Drake is Drake for a reason. His career is a one on one. There's no other career like Drake.
So he has an ability to shift culture. So let's see, man.
You want me to interview him and see who's on his next album?
Yeah, he, I'm not a Drake album guy no more, man.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'm daisy.

(14:01):
Yeah, he be losing me, man. It's, he be, I don't even know.
Because he gets, he get experimental and that's cool. But the, I feel like the body of work be, be lacking because he get too much in that experimental bag.
And the records just don't hit. I just think Drake has a copy and paste formula. And that's cool.
Because sometimes you'll get a good set of records out of it. That's okay. And that works. But maybe it's just not for me either.

(14:23):
I might, I just outgrew that, that demographic that he actually makes music for.
But the pop out was legendary, man. I'm a, that's going to be one of my favorite live shows to watch.
I loved, I loved everything about it, man. I loved everything. It was so West Coast.
I thought the, the game shit was corny, but hey, it's game.

(14:44):
I have a love hate relationship with Game. I love him or hate him.
Nah, I love Game. He was one of my favorite rappers at one time, but he just do, it's just like, bro, nobody cares. Like that's honestly, and I love Game.
He's, I think he's an amazing artist. He did, he didn't even have to say anything. It's like, whatever, dude. You weren't there is cool.
It is kind of crazy that those guys are like West Coast legends and they weren't there. But then again, it's, I feel like this was the new West. You know what I mean?

(15:11):
Right. Yeah. I wanted Vince Stables to pop out, but I think he was in Africa.
Yeah, man. That would have been fire. Well, he said, he said if I knew Tommy the Clown, what was it going to be? They had to cancel?
He said, I've been waiting for my moment since I was 12.
That's crazy. Yeah, man. But yo, the pop out on Amazon and the clips are all over social media and YouTube is such a good concert. Yeah, he did that. He did that.

(15:38):
And I don't think that was a much as a nail in the coffin for Drake as it was big step forward for the West Coast and West Coast hip hop and the culture out there.
I agree.
Yo, Tommy Richmond, I know you say you haven't listened to this dude. I heard a little bit of the viral song, Million Dollar Baby. I heard a little bit of that.

(15:59):
Yeah, he put out a tweet saying, I'm not a TikTok artist. Right. And the thing is with this dude, there's a lot of narrative that he's an industry plant. That TikTok artist narrative, the industry plant narrative.
And here's my thing. So what? Even if you are, even if you are a TikTok artist, even if you are industry plant, which I don't think he's not, I don't think he is an industry plant. So what? Does it matter?

(16:24):
I don't understand why this society loves to label things so much. Like there's nothing wrong with that. I don't even know what is a TikTok artist. It's so stupid.
My homie, Supesad, she hit me when I posted about it. She was like, she said, I hate this because if TikTok wasn't around, he would just be considered an artist. And it's like, yeah.

(16:45):
I also think just TikTok artist gets a bad rap, which is there's nothing wrong with it. It's like if you pop on TikTok, that doesn't make you a TikTok artist. You know what I mean?
Because it's just, we did the same thing with the SoundCloud artist. There was this negative narrative attached to being a SoundCloud artist, right? We got some of the, some really dope, like culture changing artists that came from the SoundCloud era, right?

(17:09):
We don't get Lil Uzi Vert without SoundCloud. We don't get XX Tansion without that. I think Russ was on SoundCloud, you know, like that whole lo-fi movement came from the SoundCloud era and that pushed hip hop for a while.
So I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it just, there's this narrative about it. I don't know why people feel like it's, it's like the gimmick rapper. I feel like it's that version of that just rebranded into, oh, you're a TikTok artist.

(17:35):
Where it's like, shit, if you any kind of artist, you all winning. Some of y'all be making like talking this shit and you and they not even relevant. You're not even on the scoreboard.
I get what he was trying to, he was trying to disassociate himself from that. But bro, so what? So what if they think you're a TikTok artist? You got, you got two records right now that are, that are going.

(17:58):
And he's not, for a little history, I don't know too much about Tommy Richmond, but what I do know is that he's been in the game. I do know that. He just didn't get one.
He caught one with this. He's been on Brent Fierce label. So he's been on a few projects over there, a few records. I'm pretty sure he's been writing over there. So it's like, yeah, we got to stop that. Yeah. What you think about the whole TikTok artist thing?

(18:20):
Oh yeah, that industry playing thing is a, that is a whole new conversation. I was going to mention the same analogy that you gave with the SoundCloud thing and people being labeled as a SoundCloud rapper or SoundCloud artist.
And like the biggest difference is people was releasing their music on SoundCloud. People are releasing their music on DSPs and it just so happened to blow up on TikTok. They're not distributing on TikTok.

(18:48):
And so, I mean, yeah, it's kind of, I ain't going to say Vine. Vine was like just six seconds and things like that.
But yeah, it was just, that's like a weird thing for me, like just to hear them fathom on their point. Cause it's like, if I blow up, like am I automatically labeled as a TikTok artist if my song blow up? Like what if my song blow up on Twitter? My Twitter rapper?

(19:11):
Like it's just the cool thing to say is I blew up on TikTok. I did this and that. Like if anybody in any position in this generation would love to blow up on TikTok.
That's my thing. That's why it's like, I don't understand why there's such a negative connotation to it or why artists even take that as a negative thing.

(19:32):
And the thing is people are, this is the other part of the conversation. TikTok is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.
Like there's artists that specifically built marketing plans based off of TikTok. They know TikTok is this tool that they could utilize that gets music going in a certain way. Its outreach is great. You could, not only that, you could create, you could create it into a trendy thing, right?

(19:56):
It turns into a moment. And then that moment continues to grow because other people pick it up. People build, create dances to it, do everything.
So TikTok is a tool that every artist should be utilizing. There are artists who create music specifically for TikTok because they know what TikTok will do, right?
Right. Yeah.
TikTok is a machine, like a record label. It's a machine and it's doing what it's supposed to do. If it didn't, we wouldn't give a damn about it. You know, it wouldn't even be worth talking about.

(20:25):
I think, yo, use TikTok. Fuck it. Be a TikTok artist. Be a Twitter artist. Be anywhere that helps your career. I think you should utilize those platforms and utilize those tools.
And I don't think a negative connotation should be attached to being a TikTok artist or being any type of artist where you utilize the tools that are out there for you.

(20:46):
What's crazy is that all of these things help the independent artists. All of these things help the major artists. To now create these narratives that these things label you as a certain type of artist is so crazy to me.
When we're in this industry, the music industry is a place where artists struggled to come up and to build their careers.
Well, before you had to catch somebody from a label, you know, the independent hustle was so much different. Now with all these tools and platforms, y'all still complaining.

(21:12):
This is crazy.
I mean, yeah, it is. That sentiment alone is just like anybody, like I said before, anybody in his position would love to be labeled as that.
And it creates a stream of revenue that you just didn't think about or just didn't, not necessarily didn't think about, but it creates a stream of revenue.
Like all these platforms do Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. So promote your music on these platforms. And all it takes is one.

(21:39):
In this generation, your music can be trash and music can be good. All it takes is one and they're going to blow it up if people gravitate towards.
I will say this though. I will say this. I can, I ain't saying you could be labeled as that, but I can understand if someone calls someone a TikTok artist, if they're independent and they saw them blow up on TikTok and they get signed off that.

(22:02):
Okay.
Let's say they have one song out or a couple songs out and one of those songs blow up on TikTok. Like it's being distributed. It's being heavily marketed on TikTok and things like this blows up millions and millions and hundreds of millions of views and things like that.
And the label sees that and they say, Hey, TikTok is the only platform they have this hundreds of millions of views on.

(22:24):
It has to be centered around just that. They don't have the hundreds of millions of views on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. So if they have that, I can understand if they will sign off that record if it blew up on TikTok.
Yeah.
So I can understand that part.
Yeah, I get that. Cause then you're saying that then that's the expectation that the label is having of you to be this type of artist that like, because that one record worked.

(22:48):
So they signed you based off of that. So now that's what they expect from you. And that's how they kind of build your career.
That's kind of a bad thing to go off of as far as the artists.
Yeah.
Because the label is going to forever milk you. They're going to milk you. They're going to milk you. They're going to keep trying to get a TikTok record, TikTok record.

(23:10):
And then what?
I don't think there's TikTok artists unless you are artists that's signed by TikTok. Your career is built off of just making these TikTok records like you're saying.
I think that's what we should call, we should define as a TikTok artist. There are TikTok songs.
So I think if you're making TikTok music for TikTok or you make out of, you know, every three, four records you make, you're making one record to throw on TikTok to work that.

(23:37):
I think that's just smart business. I don't think that's necessarily a, should define you as an artist, but I think that's good business and it allows you to stay diverse in your career and in the things that you create.
Because you should utilize those platforms and build things for those platforms if you're using them.
Like it's no different than media creators who create content for TikTok and create content for IG and content for Twitter.

(24:03):
It's like you create these different style of content pieces for these different platforms because the certain type of reel that works on Twitter might not work on IG, you know.
So I think you mold your career and the things you create to use these platforms because those are the things that propel you forward.
And like you say, it brings you in, it brings in different income revenues or not even income, we're just fan revenue, everything.

(24:26):
Just you open more floodgates as you utilize all these platforms and create content for that. I think it's laziness if you're not doing that.
So if you want that type of time, yo, Tommy Richmond, you're my favorite TikTok artist, man. How about that?
I would say that song, Million Dollar Baby, I like the sound of it. I do want to say that.

(24:48):
I've never heard the full song, but what I've heard is the like.
I've heard the clips on TikTok.
That's it. I think that's his point. You the problem. You the problem.
Somebody used it in the Instagram reel the other day that I played it.
I don't really browse TikTok. Like if I'm looking for information as far as a lot of video editors I follow on TikTok.

(25:16):
They give me what I need in 20 seconds.
Yeah, but you the problem, bro. That's exactly who he talking about.
I have yet to put a dollar in that man. I will say that.
I have not put a cent in that man. But hey, that marketing work. Who is he signing to?
Bram Fiers.
Does he does any distribution through like Warner or Sony or anything?

(25:41):
Shit. Who? Bram Fiers or Tommy Richmond?
He is. Yeah, he's just.
This is an exclusive license to post records distributed by Concord.
It says, yeah, ISO Suprema. It seems like he's pretty independent. Post records is.

(26:05):
That's the question. People will get fooled by it. They'll look at that and say, oh, he's independent whole time. Post records as a marketing or license deal with Sony or something like that.
Yeah, yeah. Post is big. Because Post got Bram Fiers, which is who Tommy Richmond signed to.
So that I don't I got to look into how that works.

(26:26):
But James Blake is on Pulse, Flo Milli, Ty Dolla Signs, Kate Trinada, like Rundajules, Kehlani, Cordae, Rich the Kid, Freddie Gibbs is over there.
So they got a nice roster and he actually fits right into that. Now that I look at it.
Right. So they getting their marketing dollars from somewhere.

(26:47):
Damn, Pulse Music Group was founded in 2008 by songwriters and producers Scott Cutler and Josh Abram and Previn as a creative sanctuary for songwriters, producers and artists.
That's. Yeah, I kind of want to dig a little more into Pulse after this.
That's pretty dope. They seem like a pretty dope, pretty dope record label.

(27:10):
Speaking of that, Ray, man, Ray is dope. I know people who know who Ray is. She is an amazing talent.
She just got a songwriter of the year, I think at the Brit Awards.
And she was putting her foot on the necks of these record labels.
And the thing is, it wasn't the first time. She had won an award a few months ago and she spoke on the same things.

(27:34):
She's putting the record labels in a hot seat and telling them, you guys need to take care of the songwriter.
She put a spotlight on the songwriters and everybody deserves this.
If you're in the industry and you're busting your ass and you're working hard and you're making you you're making things that record labels are benefiting from that are profiting from what you create.
This applies to you, too. But she was saying for songwriters, she was saying she was telling the record labels, you need to take care of your songwriters because besides being the artist, the artists are key part of the success of a record of a record label.

(28:08):
But you don't get nowhere if those songs aren't there and not every artist is a songwriter.
And if you know this industry, you know, songwriters are very underappreciated.
Some of them don't even get credit on records.
She was saying she was selling the record labels.
Take care of your songwriters. Pay for their travel. Pay for their food.
You know, pay for anything that involves them doing their job that you benefit from.

(28:32):
And I love that she she she took a moment. I love that she's done it.
This is not new for her that she's done it time and time again.
But in the midst of her winning songwriter of the year, she took the opportunity to once again point that out.
And and she doesn't have to. She's an artist who's successful.
Like she's she's she's big. So I thought that was dope.

(28:53):
And I think she's right. Record labels take care of your fucking people.
I mean, yeah, it's kind of similar to as far as the writers and film.
Yeah, yeah. What she did speak about, like, I definitely agree with that.
These labels feel like writers are replaceable.
They feel like we can close. We can just go grab one and this and that we can go.

(29:17):
We can create a right account. We can just go grab one. This and that.
This and that we can dispose of real quick. Throw them away.
This and that we can always come up with a new one. Yeah.
It's always been that analogy of just team building like you have this artist. Let's surround this artist with dope writers and let's take care of these people.
Let's take care of these people to make sure they're well fed, not just fool.

(29:40):
But financially, they live in situations, their opportunities that come towards them.
Right. Absolutely. So they have a so they have an ecosystem around them that that they know that they have.
They have your full support. So, yeah, it's man. It's a it's a dirty game.
It's the evil world we live in within the music industry, within the film industry, entertainment industry in general.

(30:06):
And I seen a post a few months ago around the time when the Actors Strike was going on.
It was a guy I can't remember his name, but he was talking about songwriters doing the same thing. Yeah.
I was just to myself. I was just thinking like, OK, I don't think to my knowledge, I don't think there's a guild or a platform like SGA.

(30:30):
To our songwriters, I don't think there's something like that. Maybe it is. I'm not 100% hip to it.
Like, what makes the what makes the difference between film and music is the actors are going to act.
The actors are doing their job as far as acting. Most actors are not writing. Most actors are not directing.
But in music, you can have an artist like Kaylon and you can have an artist like Party Next Door or something like that, that writes their own music.

(30:59):
You can have artists that produce their own music, you can have artists that mix their own music.
So that limits producers, that limits engineers, that limits songwriters.
So you don't necessarily need a whole team of songwriters anymore.
You have that. If you look on the Beyonce album, there's a lot of songwriters on that.

(31:25):
So yeah, it all depends on the artist. And if it's catered more to hip hop and R&B, you're going to see less of that.
But if it's more so pop, you're going to see a lot of that. They surround pop artists with the songwriters.
Oftentimes, when it's a songwriter guild or a songwriter situation, there's most likely a pop artist surrounded by it.

(31:50):
Because pop music is the main thing that they want to, the record label want to push. So they invest in that.
So I don't believe there's like a like a like how there's an Actors Guild like SAG.
I don't I don't believe we have that for for the music industry. I think that's all.
I said S-G-A-I meant S-A-G. I said S-G-A.

(32:13):
That's a...wait what? It's SAG.
I think I said S-G-A I think.
Oh shit. SAG. Yeah, SAG.
Yeah, you can go ahead.
I've heard talks about back in the day.
Sugar Knight, I think, Irv Gotti.
There was like a collection of people who were trying to make this happen and put together.

(32:37):
J Prince. Yeah, there was a whole collection.
I've heard Joe Button speak on it saying that he would be willing to be involved in something like that.
I've heard Norrie speak on it.
So it's definitely a thing that that but we don't have that.
What the music industry has is things that protect the music.
Not so much what protects the artists or the creative.

(33:00):
And I think that's where it gets a little shaky because this industry robs you man.
The entertainment industry specifically the music industry.
I mean you could go back in to the beginnings of this industry.
It's always been the creative kind of has always been on the on the short end of it.
Because the creative usually doesn't have leverage.

(33:24):
All they have is talent.
Today we're in the industry where we have the creative has leverage because they it's more independent.
They'd be able to build a career kind of outside of the industry and then be able to leverage that for the industry,
which is ideally what a lot of artists should do.
You never you didn't have that.

(33:45):
So artists been getting robbed forever.
The TLC story is iconic, right?
They sold they were like the top selling group in America and they had all these records that were blowing up.
They were huge.
TLC was huge and they were broke.
They didn't have a dollar in their bank account.
You know, like they showed up to Pebbles office with like guns and shit like you know they they wanted their money.

(34:08):
So that's we always gonna see that Ice Cube and WNEZ the ruthless record situation.
I mean it's it's forever.
Like we could go on forever about about artists getting robbed.
So imagine those are artists.
Now when you talk about songwriters, these are the intricate parts of what makes some of these things successful.

(34:29):
Those guys most of the time don't have any type of spotlight on them.
When you look at the Lauryn Hill situation, that was that was pretty big.
She got sued by the record label.
But I believe it was because she didn't credit she didn't credit the artist properly.
All the people that wrote on the record.
I don't mean writing just by lyrically writing.
I mean music composing is a form of songwriting as well.
And that was it.

(34:50):
I love Lauren and that was such a this example.
Like I think this is a perfect example because what happened with the Lauryn Hill situation, she paid them initially.
Right. They were in the it's like you when you hire a musician to come in and do something.
Right. So she hired these musicians, paid them.
And then she put out the record and didn't credit them or whatever.

(35:11):
That's a little iffy for me because you got paid and you would just pay you would just work to work to hire.
What is it work to hire?
Like I just I paid you for your services.
If your contract didn't include credit, you want all of your contract didn't include all these things that came with your service.
Then am I entitled to give you that just offer to just offer you playing on the record, even though I paid you and you would just work for hire.

(35:37):
That sucks if you're on the other end.
But imagine if you you Lawrence Camp and Lawrence people and it's like I mean I paid you for an annual gain or a lottery either way, because whether I credit you or not, somewhere it's it's written that you created on this album.
Yeah, man. Record labels. Take care of your people. Pay for this shit, man.
Make sure they got opportunities. Make sure they could travel without spending their own money.

(36:02):
Make sure they could eat without spending their own money if they if they on the the the job.
Come on. It's ridiculous. Yeah, pay those people.
Make sure your split sheets is right. All of that, man.
That's that's for songwriters and artists who make sure your split sheets is correct.
You have to. That's the other thing.
Before we move on from this topic, creators and artists make sure your shit is together.

(36:26):
It can't always be the labels fault. You know, like I hate this industry, too, but it can't always be the labels fault.
You know what I mean? You're not always data machine. They do what the machine's supposed to do.
You should do your you should do your due diligence and have your business your business right.
And at this point of the industry, that shouldn't have to be said because there's so much information out there.

(36:49):
Talk to me about John Singleton, man.
Yeah, man, you know, I'm in the midst of creating my short film, man. It's been it's been a long process, but it's been a beautiful one.
It's been a beautiful process also because I'm learning a lot about myself.
I'm learning a lot about storytelling, learning a lot about character development,
story development, like the climaxes of things and things like that.

(37:13):
So I always give myself credit for taking those steps back and just study and just reevaluate things.
And I've seen every season of Snowfall. I've seen every season, every episode.
And so lately, for last week, I was like, OK, this is maybe Friday or Saturday.

(37:36):
I was like, OK, I'm going to restart Snowfall. I'm going to restart Snowfall.
Because I remember the first time when I watched it, it was hard for me to watch because I wasn't my mind wasn't like in that field as far as the storytelling and that type of lane like them on the West Coast and just that story.

(37:59):
My mind wasn't there. It took me I watched the first two episodes like three times over.
Then I kept watching, kept watching, kept watching, kept watching. Then I got hooked on it.
And so just the other day, I restarted it already on season two now.
And I was just looking back and I've seen

(38:22):
Damn, I can't even think of it. Boys in the Hood. I've seen Boys in the Hood at a young age. So I kind of understand
John Singleton's vision. Like I understand his like directorial moments and his thoughts and things like that and what he was raised around and him putting it on film and things like that.

(38:45):
So me watching Snowfall, I was just like, man, like this first season is truly, truly brilliant television. Not only from his point of view, but just the storytelling and just telling each character story and just background and highlighting
the LA in the 80s. And I was just like, man, this is why this is truly why I started the foundation for my film, The Foundation. So I was just like, just looking at it and I was like, man, that's

(39:20):
I remember sitting in my dorm room in college and I was just like, man, that's I want to do something like this. I want to be able to tell captivating stories like this.
And I was just like, okay, let me write this down. Let me do this. Let me do that. Let me do that. Because you know, originally The Foundation script was about drugs. That was the original plot. Like that was the original thing because I was on watching Superfly at the time, the new one

(39:48):
with Trevor Jackson, and I was watching Snowfall as well as American Gangster. And like, that was the premise for the short film, but I later changed it over time, like from that type of realm. But as far as The Foundation and the moments that were shared as far as the acting
from Idris and as far as things like that and the story that they told, I was just like, man, like this is truly brilliant because I'm a student of the game. I'm fairly new to like the details of filmmaking.

(40:22):
Like as far as filmmaking, storytelling, I've been doing that since my first short film in 2018. So as far as the details side of things, like the smallest details of filmmaking, like I'm fairly new to this. I'm a student in the game. This is my first day of class, my first semester of this.

(40:43):
So I'm very excited about what I'm learning next. So yeah, man, it was just like, like I said, I'm on season two now and it's just truly brilliant. It's a truly brilliant experience, truly brilliant moment that he displayed.
Yeah, I'm big on style, man. I'm big on style. From the hash, from even my music videos, everything that I've ever done visually.

(41:08):
I've leaned a lot on style because I believe style pushes you even when the quality isn't good, when the equipment isn't good, when you're lacking in other places of like hardware, software, like maybe location.
When you lack in different areas, style is something that could push through everything and make a project unique and dope. There's movies like Clockwork Orange, which is such a weird movie, but stylistically it's so dope.

(41:39):
I watch things sometimes because I like just the style, you know, the production style. So I think that's very important. Actually, the next project I do is going to be very, I'm going to lean heavy on style. I'm going to lean very, very heavy on style.
Yeah, I'm experimenting with certain things with this gospel video that I'm doing.
Okay.

(42:00):
It's a certain shot where it's kind of simple, but like I done it twice with the last two videos. It's like a stand and steal shot and it's just like a regular capture the environment type of thing to where it's a slow zoom in and the subject is just singing or rapping to the camera with no movement, only their lips.
So that's one thing that I'm just trying to play around with and just try to do like that. I want to be able to do that with majority of my shots, but as far as editing wise, there's some things that I'm playing around with to see how I go with this next project.

(42:34):
Editing style is another thing too. It's not just a shooting style. You got to have the editing style.
There's certain shots I do in everything I've ever done. Because I'm such a documentarian, that's my background of media comes from documentary style films.
That's where I started at when I started doing media was these documentary style like films.

(42:59):
And so when I even when I was doing music videos, I was shooting like these up close shots and they're like very specific like documentary style shots that I try to bring into the music videos I did it to when I was doing the behind the scenes content I used to make.
I use a lot of that documentary style when it came to that. And I learned how to blend it with the music videos and there's a music video that never came out that I did for OATs that kind of combined everything together and it was the latest music video I did and it was the it was probably my best one and I combined a lot of that into it and that style.

(43:37):
Like I've just kept that. I mean moving forward is evolving that and doing something a lot.
You all got this cool. Shooting something and it never coming out.
I shot that shit. I shot it, I edited it, I did everything.
I was going through my hard drive yesterday and just trying to kill it's pace.
You deleted it?

(43:58):
Oh a lot of stuff I deleted. A lot of stuff was gone. And like mentally I would never revisit it even like there's certain things on my portfolio I just refused to put on there.
Even though it's just even though the work that I did was dope. The mental attachment to it is just like it ain't that dope to where it is above everything else that I'm doing.

(44:21):
So like it's just certain things that I just never revisit and I deleted yesterday. And plus I had to clear up some space so I had to cut the dead weight.
You know how that go? For real man you gotta cut the dead weight man. If it's not bringing you mental peace.

(44:42):
If it's anything other than that. If it's not bringing you happiness. If it's not bringing you joy, motivation, inspiration, detail.
Don't try to keep holding on thinking what if potential this and that. You talking from someone that has learned the hard way.
Yeah. I felt it.
I'm just talking about business in general because certain situations in personal life it is hard to get away from.

(45:08):
In business you have an ability to kind of move forward and cut ties.
So we're recording this episode on June 25th. The anniversary of one of the greatest hip hop albums of all time.
Reasonable Doubt.
Let's get into our top three songs on the album. Yeah.

(45:33):
It's a hard one. My own for me personally it's Dead Presidents.
Yeah.
Can I Live and Feeling It.
Yeah. Damn man. You.
Damn man.
Those are my top three man. Cause that was when I first downloaded the title back in college and I just told myself that I'm gonna study Jay-Z.

(45:55):
I'm gonna listen to every album from Reasonable Doubt to 444.
Yeah.
Even heard the one he did with Beyonce and a couple songs he got with Jay Electronica. But from the foundation to all the way to now.
That was an album I didn't want to get away from man. I just kept playing and just kept playing before I even went into the next few.
Yeah. Reasonable Doubt is one of my favorite albums. I listen to it every, almost every day I play a record from that.

(46:23):
Can I Live and Feeling It are two of my favorite hip hop records ever. My top three are Can I Live, Feeling It and I Would Have Gone With Death Presidents.
But since you picked that one I'm coming of age. That's an underrated record.
Is that the one with Memphis Bleak?
Yeah, the one with Memphis Bleak. There's a line on that record that has stuck with me since I first heard this album years, years ago when I was a kid.

(46:46):
The Bo Qua'la is it?
No, no, no. It's the line. It's off coming of age. He says, it's when he's talking to Bleak.
The premise of the story is like Jay is like this big time drug dealer or whatever and he's driving around and he sees the little homie which is Bleak and he's like,
yo, you know, I see you hustling doing your thing. You know, let me introduce you to the game, the bigger game. Let me put you on.

(47:08):
And he goes, come ride with me. He's a G. He's a stack. He's some money. And Memphis Bleak goes, fuck a G. I'll ride with you for free. I want the longtime riches.
So that line has stuck with me since I first heard the album because it's like this perspective on seizing opportunities that are not necessarily financially driven. It's like, fuck the money.

(47:33):
I'm not even going to take your money. I'm going to show you how much I value this opportunity. I'm going to show you how much work I could put in and then that money, the value of what you would have gave me in finances is going to grow.
You know, that shaped a lot of my perspective towards opportunity where it's like I want the longtime riches and all that. Not even necessarily just a longtime financial benefit. But those three records, man, right there.

(47:54):
Man, can I live had so many quotables. It's, I'd rather die enormous than live dormant. Fuck it. That's how we on it.
I can't even remember the name of it, but it was just the original title wasn't reasonable doubt. It was like something of him being labeled a certain way. And he was just like, nah, I don't. I want the people to label me instead. I don't want to come out the gate as that.

(48:21):
But you know, Jay-Z got quotes of him saying like he spent his whole life making this album and like him putting it out at 26 and it was just like, man, cause if you listen to it now, it just seemed like he was just so ahead of his time.
As far as what he was talking about now, I heard Guru said everything that he says is true. Everything that he doesn't allow his records.

(48:43):
And he said that's Jay-Z's biggest flaw. That's the chink in his arm that he doesn't allow on his records. So just listening to reasonable doubt. And just today, like, of course it came out the year I was born. So like just listening to it today.
It was just, man, it's the man was ahead of his time, man. It's definitely one of my favorite albums by him. Definitely top three. Like definitely top three.

(49:08):
100%. It's up there for me. Yeah, he, you know, it's funny reasonable doubt was his final attempt at the music industry. If that didn't work, he was done with it with the music industry.
So it's like, some people don't know the Hawaiian Sophie J. They don't know that version of Jay-Z where he was, his whole style was different. He took on this mafioso personality and that character after all his attempts.

(49:35):
I don't think, I don't know if he took it on more than the way his life was going. It just, he became that. And I believe before that he didn't have Dame Dash involved. I don't think Biggs was involved yet.
So that was like his, his shot. I want to say that, well, they weren't priority. They weren't priority for distribution, I think. Yeah.
But nobody wanted to sign Jay. Nobody wanted to sign him. He was kind of being laughed at because the music, like you said, that was a quote from Guru that he don't lie in his records. That's the chink in his armor.

(50:07):
It is because it makes him hard to relate to when you're not of that ilk. Right. So if you don't understand the story, if you don't connect to the story or you can't appreciate the story. Right.
Because I hear that a lot. People say they can't, he's just unrelatable. Even from then. Reasonable Doubt flopped. It wasn't, it didn't sell records. It flopped when it came out.

(50:29):
Over time it became a really great album. I believe it went diamond eventually. But he's unrelatable to people back then if you didn't come from that.
And people didn't want to hear that smooth, charismatic, mafioso, gang street tales. They didn't want that shit. And then he wasn't so much, but he was cool. He was too cool, bro. I love it.
He opened the album with Mary J.

(50:51):
With Mary J. That's a really good record too. Even then, everything, the beats, everything, it was just different from what was going on. So it wasn't caught on.
I've heard tons of stories of people not wanting to allow Jay up at the radio. He was being laughed at in the industry. They were like, what the hell are you doing? Who are you?
And these guys, yo, Rockefeller, they were buying out the bar. They were doing everything off their money, man. Street money. Like, are we being real?

(51:17):
And the Rockefeller method, granted, people were doing it before Hov. Hov was not the first guy to do it. Master P was out there. I got to look into, I don't know the timeframe in which Tech N9ne in them.
I just watched the ICP interview on Drink Champs. They were independent out the gate. They were independent in 1990, 91, 92. So they were early to it. I think Hov comes out later.

(51:43):
I think Hov goes independent after 93, right? What year did Reasonable Without Come Out?
96. So look, Hov didn't get in the game until 96. ICP and St. Clown Posse was independent already. Master P was independent already. Isham from out in Detroit was independent already. That dude was selling records out the trunk at 16.
He wasn't the first to do it, but he was the first to make it cool. Like these dudes were really living like that. So shout out to Hov, man. Shout out to Rockefeller.

(52:12):
Shout out to Reasonable Without, one of the greatest hip hop albums ever. One of the greatest albums ever. It's one of my favorites. Cam says some shit, bro. Even though I think the clips that were floating around were kind of out of context, but did you hear it?
Which one? Because it was one I read, I seen the other day, but I cannot totally remember.

(52:33):
I believe that Jay-Z, to me, my personal opinion, is not in love with hip hop. I think he likes hip hop a lot. I think he likes money more and opportunities to take his brand to the next level. And some of the stuff that may have been going on in hip hop 50 may have not been up his alley.
I think he's right. And I love Hov. I think he's right, though. I think Hov is more business oriented. I mean, the famous line, I'm not a businessman, I'm a business man.

(53:05):
What he's done business wise for hip hop and the culture is unprecedented. It's incredible, right? There's no title without Hov, to the extent of where it's at. Hip hop doesn't exist in some spaces if it's not for the moves and the certain things that Jay has done.
So maybe, I don't know if he doesn't love it as much, but I think he's focused on how to evolve the culture. I see why Nas is so involved in it from a creative standpoint and a passion point.

(53:36):
Because he is hip hop, you know, he's like the epitome of what hip hop is. You know, his story about like Roxanne Shantay coming up to him as a kid, him rapping for her and her being like, yo, I want to hear you get better every time.
I think they put that on the film.
They did, on the Roxanne Shantay film. So he was at the end, the little kid at the end. He's this figure in hip hop, right? Like he's just part of the culture in a different way. Where Hov has kind of always been business minded.

(54:02):
The thing that leading Hov into it was always business. I think Hov loved hip hop, he loves hip hop. He was always a business guy. Like we just said, he started in the game as an independent, like he started with a game changing move in the business sense, you know?
So I think Hov is important for the culture, man. I love Hov.
Oh yeah. I think, well two points. If it was ever anybody that would start and run that type of coalition or group for hip hop, it would be Nas. I think Nas would be in the forefront of that.

(54:36):
And so, like I do agree with your point. I do agree a little bit with Cam's point. I think he's still in love with hip hop. I think he understands that there's a bigger play involved with our people.
And that's with his relationship and his partnerships with Reform. That's his partnership with the NFL and things like that. And just Tidal as well.

(54:59):
And he has a line. It's just like all this blast got his sports as entertainment. And I think he has a deep, deep level of understanding.
Things like that of the bigger picture involved when it comes to music, when it comes to Reform, when it comes to film, and just as a culture in general.
So as far as the hip hop thing with the Tom Brady situation and the 50's hip hop, we don't know. We'll never know the situation around that. But I do know, there was a clip I seen today of Jay-Z accepting the award.

(55:30):
He talked about Big Daddy Kane. He talked about LL. He talked about KRS-One. He talked about what these guys represent to him. And you can tell and you can see it in his eyes and hear the tone in his voice that hip hop will forever be instilled in him.
He will forever instill hip hop into his children. He will make sure that his children's children are instilled in it. And I know he mentioned that he'll give his masters and his role to his children.

(55:58):
And whatever they decide to do with that, that's up to them. I remember him alluding to that. So as far as that notion of hip hop with Jay-Z, he understands that there's a bigger picture involved.
And that's just allowing evolution to set in. Of course, I feel the same way towards Nas. It's just you see Nas on the forefront of hip hop.

(56:22):
So you're going to have that analogy and things like that. It's like the Magneto and Professor X situation. That's how you can look at it. It's like the Magneto, Professor X, or Martin Luther King and Malcolm X and things like that.
So you can look at that analogy. And that's how you can look at Jay and Nas. Of course, they had their back and forth in their history, but they also have a better understanding of, okay, we come together, we're going to create something magical, whether it's the success record, whether it's the Sorry Not Sorry record, whether it's these things.

(56:57):
So I feel like Jay-Z has a deeper level of understanding that, okay, let me get into this do-say. Let me get into, let me create this technology company and form it with music and create title. Let me get into reform.
That's one of the, I tip my head off to Jay-Z by being involved in those type of things with Esquadra Enterprises and nonprofits that he has, or the foundation, the nonprofit that he has, and intertwining that with his mother and just doing the groundwork.

(57:30):
Because at the same time, you're not going to look at Jay-Z as someone that does, that's going to be on the front line. You look at him more as the guy that's pushing the button to make the system go this, that, and this, and that. And all in all, man, that's truly, that's why I look up to him as a person in business.
Because I don't know him personally, so I can't look up to him as a person. Like I look up to him in the business aspect only, only what I see. So only what I study. So I tip my head off to Jay-Z, Nas, and people like that that have done the groundwork that has been in the game for 30 years and 20 years.

(58:12):
That has shown us, quite frankly, the blueprint of how to do this. Like, okay, let's start Rockefeller. Let's evolve there and partner with Live Nation. And let's start Rock Nation. Let's get into the Reform Alliance. Let's get into, let's do this partnership with the NFL.
Let's get Rihanna. Let's get Dr. Dre. Let's get these guys performing at the Super Bowl. And people got to understand that it's bigger than music. Like music is just the drivership to help get us there. I always said this with my company.

(58:43):
Like my company slogan in the beginning was built off music. I want to use music as the drivership to get there so I can expand. Like I'm always in the position to expand just my business in general. And I take that model from Nas, from Ho, from Nipsey, and people like that.
So we're just seeing the evolution of these guys. Like over time we're going to see that in Kendrick, J Cole, Drake. We're going to see that evolution within those guys in about 10 to 15 years. And we're seeing it now.

(59:15):
Yeah. Yeah, Ho has been in the game a long time. So his perspective is very different. I think as far as the culture goes. I mean, Nas is a business guy too. But yeah, J has a, he just, I guess that's more of his thing.
I think J's purpose is, you were saying that J's purpose is bigger than just music. He like speaks from a very, like a cultural place and even a humanity place, you know? Like 444 wasn't about hip hop, you know? It wasn't about music.

(59:46):
444 was about the improvement of our people. It was about the mental health of our people, emotional health, your family structures, your legacy. It's definitely bigger than hip hop. And I think Ho ultimately will go down as somebody as a figure in our community, in our people, in our history books.
Not about having nothing to do with hip hop, you know what I mean? Given what his trajectory is from where he's at now. Ho was an early investor in Uber, early investor in a lot of businesses that people, unless you dig into his venture company, you don't really, his venture capital company, you don't really know all the things he's actually been a part of from a business standpoint.

(01:00:30):
And even the things that we don't see that are not public, you know, that are in private records. So he pulls a lot of strings, man. That reform program, yeah, that's a big thing too. That speaks for itself, you know?
Oh yeah.
The films he's made, the documentaries he's made. Ho has been part of some really cool projects, some media projects. He did that documentary on the Khalif Brown. But that was big to me because that happened in New York. That was the kid who got sent to Rikers for like two years or something.

(01:00:59):
Then they dropped the case and he ended up killing himself from all the trauma that he dealt with while he was locked up. And he was innocent. And just the justice system is so fucked up, especially in New York. So that story hit home for me and I love that he put a spotlight on it.
And you know, Ho was the guy going at Zimmerman where he said, they killed XXX and they killed XXX, but they let Zimmerman live. The streets is done. Like he makes these statements that are powerful, you know, that I think over time, and even now over time, we're going to see Ho revolve into something way bigger than music. He is now, but I think we're going to see it.

(01:01:36):
Just give us one more album. All I ask for is one. I would be fine without it, but just give me one more album. One more album.
I need another album. I need another album from Ho.
What you said about him being just not more focused on just making music, I think that's a perfect segue to the intro track to Nick Grant's album, Sunday Dinner.

(01:02:02):
This is a real nigga PSA. Sunday Dinner is an album of self discovery. A collection of personal events about my upbringing in South Carolina being raised by my grandma and the neighborhood.
One of the requirements for being in a household was to get your ass up to church every Sunday. And every Sunday at the church the family would gather at our house.

(01:02:27):
This is where I would see different examples of people that would mold the person I would become, along with other things that went on in the projects.
This collection of people and experiences becomes the foundation of the album.
Sunday Dinner.
It was a song, because I was watching this YouTuber, just doing lifestyle content.

(01:02:51):
And they played a song called Sense Elementary. I was just like, damn, what is this? So I downloaded it, listened to it.
But then I was just like, okay, I want to hear more of who this guy is. So Nick Grant, I think he's from Carolina. I can't remember which one, North or South. I can't remember which one.
I'm not even going to try to get that misconstrued. He released an album last year called Sunday Dinner.

(01:03:16):
And he released a deluxe this year. And I heard the full album over the weekend. And I know I talk highly about the Vince Staples album. I talk highly about the Rapsody album. But man.
Yeah.
I think this one takes the cake, man.
This definitely takes the cake. It's just the best album that I've heard this year. And it's just like, just man, this is, he really took me through his life story. He really took me through just him growing up and things like that. And that's why I mentioned the first song, Don't Worry About a Classic.

(01:03:51):
Yeah, that's the name of it.
Don't Worry About a Classic. And he alludes to just people asking about the album, asking about this and that. And then he talks about just him trying to save his people, him trying to handle these personal things and people worrying about when this album coming out, when this and that.
Like my life's mission is bigger than just this music.
So I was just like, okay, I really understand. I really understood where he's coming from as far as I can use this music as a tool to spread my message. But I need y'all to understand that the message that I'm like just conveying to the world is way bigger than this.

(01:04:29):
The music is just a microphone and a tool that I'm using to get you there. So once I have you here, like, okay, this is what I'm doing. I'm just saving my people. I'm not going to label this album a classic.
That would be very, I just like, as I was talking about the first lot of it, that's wild. But like, that's very, very, this is a very, very truly beautiful, this is a beautiful piece of art. And the way he painted it from the beginning to the end of every record.

(01:05:00):
And like the B.H. Chicago kid, features that he has. I was playing a record on my mom's run this morning. And it's just, man, just the way, like just conceptual wise and just the topics to things that he talked about.
And his Breakfast Club interview with him just breaking down certain records and like, oh, okay, I see this. I understand. I get this.
Man, that is, this is, this is the album I'm going to live with for the rest of my life. And like, I would love to not only interview him, but I would love to work with him one day and just get him like on a future project or something like that, man.

(01:05:35):
That's something that we got to just work on. Something has to connect in the future on that end. Because I love to just see where his mind was and his inner thoughts, if he'd like to share that during this moment of creating this.
Because if you're going to create a piece of art like this, there's something that was going on within your life, but you had to put this out. There was something going on. He'd been in the game for a minute, I just learned.

(01:06:02):
And like, there's something that went, there's something that happened. Because I know he had a situation with A Room Full of Mirrors and TDE Punch that I don't really like to talk about.
So I knew there was a lot of things that happened in the past that led him to release this project. And then Sunday Dinner is just, that's the perfect title for this album.
I was talking about how they looked at Sunday Dinner as their staple, their moment. They looked forward to that throughout the week. Something that his grandma spoke about. So that title meant the world to him on that aspect.

(01:06:38):
I'm ready to listen to it again, man.
I mean, yeah, you put me on, man. Talk about cinematic pieces, bro. It was so well put together, so well constructed, the skits, everything, the opening record was everything, man. He pulled me in from the first 15, first seven seconds, really.

(01:07:03):
That is hard to do. You know, like listening to the, what is it, like a voicemail that plays in the beginning or like a phone call and then going into the record. I mean, I was captivated from the moment. Man, that NoYo, I needed everything on this album. I needed like the space I'm in in life.
This album is made for me. You know what I mean? That NoYoWorth record, amazing, right? Incredible.

(01:07:27):
Count your blessings to friend of me's, man. Bravo. There was something on here that, man, he said, I'm Bravo. He said, you work your whole life to get rich, then get aired out. But Bravo, though.
That, man, when you look at hip hop and the things that are going on, and I don't like to highlight these things, but they do happen, especially in this culture. And it's reasons why I hate this industry, because a lot of kids, man, fall victim, man, to gun violence and all that in this culture, man.

(01:08:00):
A lot of it surrounds just hip hop because of how they choose to use their voice and amplify things. And that line was just like a very, because that's something that sits on my mind a lot when I think about this business.
So when he said that, and not just in this industry, but in life, it's like, yo, you work your whole life to get rich and then you get killed. The sarcasm of like, but Bravo, though, like, you know, good going.

(01:08:26):
That whole record, Bravo, has that kind of temple to it. And this album is getting another listen, a lot of listens from me, man. This is going to be the theme, my theme music for a little bit.
Incredible rapping, incredible production, voice presence, everything this dude, man, this dude is, I don't know as much as you know about him, but off my first listen to the album, just incredible. Such an album I haven't listened to for a long time.

(01:08:55):
Oh yeah, I would say between this and me watching Snowfall, man, I got a dangerous level of motivation right now, man. And that's all I'm going to say with it. That's all I can say publicly about it. It's just a dangerous level of motivation.
That shit put a battery in my back, man. That album put a battery in my back. I needed that, bro. I tell you, I was, listen, man, I was driving, I had this album loud. I had my shit going loud. I had the windows down.

(01:09:22):
Oh, you was hearing Nick Grant yesterday. I'm like, nah, the streets got to hear this. Oh yeah, got to. Florida got to hear this. That's the energy I was on. It just felt, man, it was so good. Shout out Nick Grant, man. Incredible, incredible, incredible.
Definitely, he definitely got a new fan. I'm going to be tapped in to everything that's going on with Nick Grant. Go get that album.

(01:09:46):
Well, yeah, man. What industry tips of the week we got today? You didn't want to talk about the Goldprint Journal? Oh, man, that was on the- Yeah, and the Black Gold EP? On the list. Oh yeah, I can touch on that real quick.
So yeah, man, I'm currently on the third issue of the Goldprint Journal. And I just want to do a quick reflection just on the process of it from the interview I did with Zevin and the interview I did with DJ Clark, a local gym owner.

(01:10:16):
That dude is L, man. That dude is L. Oh yeah, man, definitely is. Before you get into it, giving you some flowers, man. The quality of the Goldprint Journal is incredible. It looks amazing. It's good writing, all that.
But dudes like Zevin, I have more of a knowledge of because I've spoke to him and I've known him through you for a long time. So I'm all in tune with his story. Plus, I listen to the music. What's the dude named, Clark? Deidre Clark.

(01:10:47):
See, I would have never known who he was had you not put a spotlight on him. And that dude deserves a spotlight. I'll just say that. Oh yeah, man. Usually when I'm doing a journal and doing a piece like that, it's all selective. So I really just choose the person.
And things like that. And just the moment that Zevin shared throughout his interview, he talked about certain lyrics from the gospel record and just things that he witnessed and things that he'd been through throughout his spiritual journey and just transitioning into Christian hip hop.

(01:11:21):
And I thought that was just, man, just a beautiful moment that he shared. And so when we put that out, it was a very good moment to just put that out to the world and then to the local gym on Deidre Clark.
It was a moment within the interview where I was just like, man, I almost teared up a little bit, got emotional. Because within that, he talked about certain success stories within his gym. And usually someone would talk about like an athlete or someone that came through.

(01:11:55):
But within that, he talked about a young man that lacked confidence. And within that confidence, he was getting picked on and bullied at school. And then once his dad started driving him to Deidre to the gym, then Deidre just put him through certain things to build his confidence.
And he was just seeing that level of confidence of the young man picking his chin up, shoulders up, just staying firm within his walk and the way he talked and the way he moved himself and carried himself. He was just like, man, that was his biggest success story.

(01:12:29):
So it was just a good moment to just to witness, just to talk about. Because usually when I do content, I'm going to forever promote it. To this day, I'm going to promote it because it's still fairly new. I think both of them came out this year, so it's still fairly new.
So it was like a beautiful moment that both of those guys shared. And hopefully we can just continue to just keep pushing and keep pushing in just the world to hear it. And as far as the people on the local tip, to just go witness it for themselves.

(01:12:59):
That's the Body Shop?
Absolutely, Body Shop Edge. Yeah, it's called the Body Shop Edge. That's DJ's gym in Brookhaven, Mississippi.
The first time I heard that was Zevin on a record. I don't know if this record came out or if it was a verse he did for one of my joints, but he said, I'm at the Body Shop. And I was like, what is he talking about? I thought he was talking about self-improvement.
And then, and then watching his content, like the content Zevin puts up, I saw him like at the gym. He was like, I'm at the Body Shop, whatever it was. I was like, oh shit, that was a gym.

(01:13:34):
And that was the first time I heard it. I heard it from a Zevin verse. And then you did this, this entire article on them. So that was dope to see. And seeing how a local artist supports that business and puts it into music and how that could connect.
And me being somebody who consumes the music, consumes your content, and then seeing the business being highlighted. When I pull up to Mississippi, I got to go check out the Body Shop.

(01:14:02):
Oh yeah, definitely got to. Like I said, it was just a beautiful thing to just witness. When I went, I talked to him about it. Like he was just very, very excited about the opportunity. And I was just like, man, like this is, this is going to be a moment.
And the moment I left, I was just like, this is the best thing that I've ever filmed. This is the best moment as far as filmmaking wise and storytelling wise that I've been a part of. And it still is to this day.

(01:14:27):
And so, man, I might mess around and release a clip today. So yeah, it was just, it was just a good moment to witness, man. And I'm trying to start the groundwork for issue number three. I mean, not issue number three, issue number four.
I ain't going to say I don't have anyone in mind, but it's just some behind the scenes things I'm working on for that one. Because I won't.
Because you know, I'm in competition with myself. So I enhance my quality with each release when it comes to that. I want the storytelling to be grand. I want the storytelling to be inspirational, motivational, even emotional.

(01:15:00):
And so that's something I'm always trying to captivate within what I'm doing. So yeah, man, it was a beautiful thing. And as far as the Black Gold EP, I ain't really have too, too much to say about that.
It was just like the rollout has been kind of started with that, but we kind of gearing up and we kind of ramping up things with that by releasing the therapy intro yesterday.

(01:15:22):
Yeah, I saw that.
And more clips. Yeah, more clips are going to come throughout the next few weeks. But yeah, man, we created a whole moment behind it and just a narrative of just like redemption, just faith and gratitude.
And what we did with the gospel experience, man, it was a truly beautiful moment by what we captured in the interviews that we did, the shots that we did, and just the therapy session as a whole that he did, a woman that he knows from his hometown.

(01:15:52):
A beautiful moment that we're going to give to the world and however they perceive it, that's how they perceive it.
I love it, man.
Oh yeah, appreciate you. Appreciate you. It's a very beautiful moment that we created, man. And I don't have a date for the EP, but man, I'm working around the clock as far as trying to get it together.
Structured things. Yeah, trying to structure things. The art cover is done. Art cover been done for five weeks now. So that's out the way. And as far as mixing and mastering, we still doing things behind the scenes on that end.

(01:16:25):
Yo, this is what I wanted to see from Zevin, man. I just want to say that I know with me you have had a lot of conversations about how to, you know, what's the route that you want to take.
Well, on your end is what you can do to help him as an artist and really put him out there. But these are the things that in those conversations we talked, these are the things that I was hoping to see.

(01:16:47):
And I always knew that you could put the lens on it and kind of bring it out. And I love seeing this. I love you're really getting to know Zevin. You're really getting to see not just the music, but the mind behind it, the person behind it.
The storyline. Like you're, you know, the story building is definitely one of your talents, man, because you're creating this thing around him where it's like, okay, you're getting to see it. You're getting to see the transformation. You're getting to see what it's like to, you know, go from whatever space he was in to where he's headed.

(01:17:21):
You can see it, you know, and that's dope. I love learning more about Zevin. I love seeing him in such a higher quality place when it comes to the content and the music and all that, man. So I'm going to give, applaud you on that, bro, because it's coming together.
I appreciate it.
I'm definitely coming together.

(01:18:02):
Build an email list. Collect email addresses from your fans and send regular newsletters with updates. Exclusive content and promotional offers. Email marketing is a powerful tool for maintaining direct communication with your audience.
Develop a marketing plan. Create a detailed marketing plan that outlines your goals, target audience, budget, promotional strategies, and timeline. This plan will guide your efforts and keep you focused. Utilize the marketing mix.

(01:18:27):
This is an important one, guys. Apply the four P's of marketing. Product, price, place, and promotion to your music career. Ensure your product is high quality. Price appropriately, distribute it effectively, and promote it strategically. Leverage social media.
Use social media platforms to engage with your fans. Share content. Promote your music. Regularly post updates, interact with followers, and use analytics to refine your strategy. Use content marketing.

(01:18:50):
Create valuable content that resonates with your audience, such as behind the scenes videos, tutorials, blogs, and live streams. This keeps your fans engaged and helps attract new listeners. Optimize your website and show your website's professional, easy to navigate, and regularly updated.
It should include your music, bio, tour dates, merchandise, and contact information. Guys, a lot of the tips for this week, I wanted to put together around marketing and audience engagement, because I feel like that's a very, very, very understated thing.

(01:19:21):
A lot of artists with great content, with great, I mean, with great music, don't have the outreach, and they don't plan accordingly. They don't market accordingly. They don't build family. One of my personal experiences was dealing with an artist who had really good music, but the engagement was off.
He didn't market properly. He didn't build an audience. He thought that his friends and his followers were his audience, and that is a great mistake. Just because you have 5,000 followers doesn't mean you have 5,000 fans. You have to build an audience, and that requires engagement.

(01:19:57):
That requires marketing. That requires promotion. Understated things like the emailing. I know that seems like a dead arc, but it's very important. I get newsletters from Darryl almost every month or so. You know, like, newsletters are still important.
Newsletters, email, having that is your direct bridge to your fan base, to the people that you're connecting with. So I wanted to highlight those things in the tips this week. What do you think, bro?

(01:20:21):
I mean, yeah, you really hit the nail on the coffin as far as just explaining things like that, because when it comes to music, I always tell people there's avenues and things like that that you can do for free.
There's plenty of ways that you can market your music for free, but oftentimes you're going to come across certain situations to where you need to come out of pocket on certain things.

(01:20:42):
And I always tell people just find someone or someone that you know this and just talk to them about the vision and things like that and just bring them on the journey that kind of do things that you lack.
And as far as websites, emails, and things like that, again, man, just invest in your career. Invest in your career, because the things that you do today are going to be a direct reflection of your career.

(01:21:10):
Five years from now, 10 years from now, a month from now. We all have a cell phone. We all, everyone has a cell phone.
There's platforms like CapCut, there's platforms like Canva, things like that, that you can create endless amount of content on.
There's platforms like Squarespace, Shopify, things like that, that you can pay $30 a month on.

(01:21:36):
There's platforms like Namecheek where you can get a domain for $11 a year.
You can build an entire website on Wix.
Right, so there's platforms out there, absolutely. So there's platforms out there that you can utilize to be able to set the foundation for your business.
But ain't none of that going to work if you don't market yourself. Ain't none of that going to work if you don't put the same amount of effort that you do making the record into marketing, because marketing is a whole different thing.

(01:22:05):
You may think you have this fire product often like to throw the similarities at the drug game, at the music game.
You can have the dopest product on the block, on the street, in the state. But if you're not marketing it right, then it don't mean nothing.
Like that's always going to be somebody down the line or the competition that's selling their product at a better rate and at better quality.

(01:22:29):
So then what you do? What you going to do then?
So yeah, you have to put the same effort into making that product.
And then that's when it comes to stretching it out. Like what you said on the other podcast, you got to make the dope stretch.
Absolutely, you got to stretch the coke out.
And sometimes you got to get free samples, man. The fiends got to eat. Your fiends are your greatest marketing sometimes, your promo team.

(01:22:52):
Absolutely. And that's what Franklin did on Snowfall when they first started doing the deals in the neighborhood with Leon and Kevin.
Leon and Kevin did understand that first. Like he was giving the dope away to the fiends for free.
And they was like, man, what's this, this, and that? And they know that they're going to get hooked on. They know they're going to keep coming for more.
And that's when you give them a price. That's when you leverage a price. That's when you do this and that.

(01:23:17):
So again, you're not, you have to put the same effort and the same exciting feeling that you have making the record into marketing.
Because marketing is an art form. You have to look at it as an art form.
Like a tree falling to the middle of the forest on nobody here. But in the day of your music trash, then it don't even matter.

(01:23:44):
Just keep making it, bro. But just keep making it. Just keep doing your things.
If your music is trash and you don't market it, you super fucked.
Oh, yeah. We need to change. It needs to have a conversation with God about that. Long, long conversation about this.
This is truly what I'm meant to be doing. But at the end of the day, people are so blinded that they think that their music is good and people tell them it's good.

(01:24:12):
So like they're forever going to be blinded by it. But that's a whole other conversation that I ain't trying to get on.
I start showing your needs. I ain't trying to do that. But yeah, man, just put that same effort you have into making that art.
Like the same effort that I have into creating this film, creating the storytelling, developing this album.

(01:24:35):
Shit, I probably put the 10 times more effort into the marketing side as far as what I need to do to put it out.
But there's also other avenues that I need to do personally to put it out. So like to market it as well.
Yeah. This has been another episode of the I Hate This Industry podcast. I am your esteemed host, Stephen Almeida.
That's my brother over there, Darrell Reese Jr. Thank you for tuning in, listening, and we're going to catch you next week.

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