September 1, 2025 • 58 mins
AAs a child, Adam dreamed of becoming an “ER car man,” a dream fulfilled through military service and policing—until a call to Walmart on April 8, 2016, changed everything. Confronted by a woman with a hatchet, Adam used deadly force. Though cleared, the incident sparked a silent battle with PTSD.
He shares a raw account of self-destruction—alcohol, casual encounters, and isolation—and the institutional silence that followed. After proper mental health care, Adam returned to policing as a captain and now advocates for first responder mental health, showing that healing is possible and no one should suffer in silence.
Connect with Adam:
Website: StopTheThreatStopTheStigma.org
Email: adam@stopthethreatstopthestigma.org
Connect with Jen:
I Need Blue now has a new home at The Healing in Sharing! Visit thehealinginsharing.com to explore Round Chair Conversations, all relevant I Need Blue content, and ways to support the mission of sharing stories that inspire hope and resilience.
By sharing the hidden lines of our stories, we remind each other we are not alone — together, we step out of hiding and into healing.
Instagram: @ineedbluepodcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ineedblue
Apple Podcasts: Listen & Subscribe
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheHealingInSharing11
Memoir: Why I Survived, by Jennifer Lee on Amazon
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Imagine when you share your darkest hours they
become someone else's light.
I'm Jennifer Lee, a globalcommunity storyteller, host,
author and survivor, guiding youthrough genuine, unfiltered
conversations.
Together, we break the silence,shatter stigma and amplify
(00:34):
voices that need to be heard.
Each episode stands as atestament to survival, healing
and reclaiming your power.
Listen to I Need Blue on ApplePodcasts, spotify, youtube or
your favorite platform.
Learn more at wwwineedbluenet.
(01:00):
Trigger warning I Need Blueshares real, real life stories
of trauma, violence and abusemeant to empower and support.
Please take care of yourself andask for help if needed.
Now let's begin today's story.
(01:20):
Since he was a little boy, adamalways knew he was born to
serve.
The sound of sirens didn'tscare him.
They called him.
While other kids ran from thewindow, adam ran toward it
wide-eyed and heart-pounding,dreaming of the day he'd wear
(01:41):
the badge.
That dream led him throughcollege, the military and
eventually into a patrol car ofhis own.
Then, friday, april 8, 2016,5.15 pm, a call came in.
Sirens screamed.
Adam raced toward danger, thistime to a Walmart where his life
(02:06):
would change forever.
That evening, adam was involvedin an officer-involved shooting
.
What followed was a silencemore deafening than the sirens,
a cease and desist letterpressure to stay quiet about his
emotional turmoil andeventually, in ultimatum, resign
(02:28):
or face termination.
But Adam didn't stay silent.
In 2019, he began to share histruth with anyone willing to
listen.
The weight of PTSD nearlycrushed him.
He coped the only way.
He knew how, ways that weren'thealthy but felt necessary at
(02:49):
the time.
His story is raw, honest andhuman.
Today, adam shares his healingjourney to ignite hope, speak
truth to trauma and to honor thelittle boy who still runs to
the window when he hears sirens.
It is my absolute honor towelcome Adam, captain of Police
(03:14):
for the Hartford Township PoliceDepartment, as today's special
guest.
Adam, thank you for yourcourage, thank you for accepting
my invitation and welcome tothe I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you, Jen.
I really appreciate thisopportunity and look forward to
sharing my experience with youand everyone else who wants to
listen.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Absolutely, and what's interesting is I found
you through a Facebook post, andwe know how important social
media is, so thank you forposting, and I'm so thankful
that I was led to your post andwe were able to connect.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I agree, social media is great when it works and it
helps me share my experiencewith others and reach people
that I wouldn't normally reach,and that's why we're here
together and I think it'swonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Adam, I know it's really important for you to be a
resource to others who aresuffering in silence.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Go ahead, share your email address so others can get
a hold of you as they listen tothis conversation, if they need
someone to reach out to.
Sure, I'm the founder of Stopthe Threat, stop the Stigma.
You can visit me atStopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg
Once you go there.
My email address is there, adam, at
StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg,and you can also find my phone
number there.
You can call me, you can textme.
I look forward to hearing fromfrom anybody.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
if they if they need something, please reach out as a
mom of two boys and they lovedpolice fire.
You know they had their fireboots, their whatever get ups
halloween costumes.
So when I think of that littleboy that would go running to the
window when they hear sirens,it takes me back to my little
(05:07):
boys.
Tell me what you were feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, you know, I'm 50 years old now but I'm still
that little boy because everytime I hear a siren I still go
run into the window or look outthe car window and try to see
what's coming up the road.
It's just exciting to me tryingto see what's coming up the
road.
It's just exciting to me.
And I was born and raised inthe city of Racine, which is in
Wisconsin, on Highway 20, whichis also Washington Avenue.
(05:32):
It's one of the mainthoroughfares in and out of the
city of Racine and as far backas I can remember and as far
back as my parents told me,every time I heard a siren I
would run up to that window andlook outside hoping to see a
police car.
Fire engines are cool too.
So are ambulances andeverything else that makes a
siren.
I love it all, but I waslooking for that police car and
(05:56):
every time that I would see apolice car go by with the lights
and sirens going, I would tellmy parents an er car, an er car
because of the siren, the ER,and it would make me excited.
I absolutely loved it.
I still love it, and my parentssaid the first time I saw a
police officer get out of apolice car or an ER car.
I looked at them and I said anER car man, when I grow up, I
(06:19):
want to be an ER car man.
So as far back as I can remember, that was my dream.
I always wanted to be an ERCARman, a police officer, and so I
graduated from high school.
I went into college and secureda criminal justice degree and
then joined the army, where Ihad my first experiences in law
(06:39):
enforcement as a military policeofficer.
And I still remember my firstcall as a military police
officer.
It was at the post office onbase and I remember seeing
myself in a window and I'm likethis is great, I love being a
cop, and I just continued topursue that.
Once my career in the militaryended, I went back home to
(07:01):
Racine and I was lucky enough toget hired by the Racine Police
Department where it all started.
It was absolutely a dream cometrue.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I am still smiling from the ER car story.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You are smiling, people can hear it in your voice
your passion, your purpose andall of that.
Yeah, if you're not smiling, Idon't know.
It's great.
It's like I want everybody tobe a part of this conversation,
but thank you so much forsharing that.
And I'll tell you as a child, Iwent to a Catholic school and
(07:41):
whenever we heard sirens, wewould stop and we were taught to
pray for whoever was in theaccident, to pray for the first
responders.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, and to pray for the families involved.
So that was from a little girl.
That was what we were taughtnot knowing what actually you
all see and things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, thank you for doing that, because I was born
and raised Lutheran, I wasbaptized, I was confirmed.
I believe in prayer, I believeprayer is real and it works.
So thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So I have to ask you were talking about being a
police officer in the military.
How does that differ versusbeing, like, chief of police you
are now?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
A lot of people don't know.
I mean, there's still crimesthat occur on base, there's
people that aren't military thatcome and go from the base and
there's retail stores on thebase, there's restaurants,
there's car crashes, there'sdomestic abuse, there's all
kinds of stuff that goes on.
So I mean, that's how I got myfeet wet and got into law
(08:46):
enforcement and there are somedifferences with training and
stuff like that.
I mean, when I was in themilitary there were two types of
military police.
One was combat support, whichwe were all trained as soldiers
to be military police in case wehad to go to war.
And then there's somethingcalled garrison law enforcement,
which is kind of like what yousee in the civilian law
(09:08):
enforcement profession.
When you see the police car,the uniform, they're doing
traffic stops, they're catchingspeed or stuff like that.
And I was able to get involvedin the garrison side of law
enforcement right away becausewhen we would do gate duty, you
know, let cars in and out andcheck everybody's ID and
registration and stuff like that, I would go to one of the local
(09:32):
dollar stores and I would buythese little black and white
matchbox cars and if there was akid in a car I would hand them
out to the little kids because Iremember a police officer doing
that when I was in elementaryschool.
I thought it was the coolestthing in the world.
So I figure, what's a couplebucks?
You know, I can take 10 bucksto the dollar store, get 10
little matchbox police cars andhand them out to the kids.
(09:54):
So we had something called aprovost marshal, which is kind
of like the chief of police, andhe saw that I was doing that
and he pulled me off the gateduty and the combat support
duties and put me on the bikepatrol.
So I got to do law enforcementbike patrol.
I got to dress up as Darren thedare lion, mcgruff the crime
dog.
I mean, I loved it.
(10:15):
My experience in the army Iknew right then I wanted to be a
cop.
I'm like this is my dream cometrue.
I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
That's awesome.
I'm like you're like thefavorite uncle of police
officers.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And I have, you know, I have three nieces and they
actually bought me a t-shirtthat says Funkle, because I'm
the fun uncle and yeah, it'sgreat.
So that's funny.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
That's what I'm envisioning.
As you're talking, I was likethis is great, yeah, and that's
what.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I'm envisioning as you're talking.
I was like this is great.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
You really humanize being a police officer because
you, ultimately, you protect usand put your life on the line,
but you're still a person.
You're still a dad, you'restill the uncle, the funcle as
you call it.
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So you had your career in the military, and what
made you leave?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
the military.
Then, well, I was active dutyin the Army for five years and
then, you know, after my timewas up, I could have re-upped or
kind of re-enlisted or left,and at the time I was married
and I had one daughter and Ifigured we would just move back
home to Racine and start ourlife together.
And that's what we decided todo.
And after, figured we wouldjust move back home to Racine
and start our life together.
And that's what we decided todo.
And after about a year ofapplying at police departments,
(11:29):
I was hired by the Racine PoliceDepartment.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
What was it like for you and what was it like for
your family?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It was great for me.
People always say don't putyour job first.
You know, family's moreimportant and it is.
It truly is.
But I was a cop 24 hours a day,365, you know a year, and you
know live, eat, breathe, lawenforcement.
And I started realizing when Iwas walking around the house
(11:57):
that I didn't see myself in anypictures and it wasn't because I
was the person taking picturesof my, you know, wife now
ex-wife but my wife and kidsit's because I was working so
much or I was sleeping, so Iwasn't involved.
And you know, also with Racine.
Racine's a bigger city, it'slocated between Chicago,
illinois, and Milwaukee,wisconsin, and I was a third
(12:21):
shift evidence technician.
So I would go to a lot of thehomicides, a lot of the
drive-bys, a lot of the gangcomplaints, fatal crashes, and I
started becoming callous tothese complaints shot and killed
.
And I walked in the door and Ilooked to the right.
I had all my gear with me.
I looked to the right and I sawa gentleman deceased.
(12:51):
He had been shot in the men'sbathroom while he was going out
the door and he was just layingthere deceased and I was
thinking, okay, I can get towork, it's just another body.
But it's not.
It's not to me, it's more thanthat and I also assisted in
processing the crime scene of atriple homicide.
Seven people were shot, threewere killed and it's my
(13:12):
understanding that it was onegang that shot each other over
money, old, in a dice game.
And I remember looking at an18-year-old that was shot and
killed and he was laying on theground in a parking lot and he
had his cell phone in one handand he had a loaded gun in the
other hand and he was layingthere flinching because he was
shot multiple times and 18 yearsold and that is still
(13:34):
somebody's son.
That is still a life that'sgone.
I mean, I get it and a lot ofpeople understand hey, if you're
gangbanging and you, it comesto the territory.
If you live that lifestyle, itmight catch up to you, but that
is still somebody's loved one,somebody's possibly a brother, a
son.
He could have been a father,but I started getting callous to
(13:56):
that.
So I started looking for jobsand that's when I moved up north
.
You know, kind of uprooted thefamily and moved up north and
tried to get back to basics as afamily, took another police job
, but then after about a yearthe marriage fell apart and then
we ended up getting a divorce,so it didn't work out so well.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
When you say you started to get callous to the
job.
What does that mean?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Kind of numb, to everything around me, just doing
my job, kind of emotionless, ifthat's even a word.
You know, when I walked intothat bar and I put my gear down,
I looked to the right and I sawthat man, just deceased, laying
there with the door halfwaypropped open and I can still see
it now.
It was just kind of like allright, get to work, you know,
(14:45):
take some photographs and dothis, that and the other thing.
And it was catching up to meand I still did a good job, I
still loved the job I was doing.
But I was kind of likedesensitized to the stuff and I
didn't like that.
It wasn't really who I was, itwasn't how I was born and raised
, and my parents instilled goodmorals and work ethics in me and
(15:09):
to treat everybody equal, and Iwas just kind of like, yeah,
it's just another body.
I didn't like that feeling.
So then I just started lookingfor other jobs.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You know something you said earlier when you were
in the military and you walkedby and you saw your reflection
in the glass, you were like, yes, this is what I want to do.
I'm right where I want to be.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
But then you're walking through your house and
you look up at the photos on thewall and there's no reflection
of you because you are not inthose pictures.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Right, I wasn't present, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yes, what an awakening, what a realization.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
And it was when I worked for the city of Racine.
I was full time, obviously, butthen I even picked up a part
time police officer job on oneof the police departments that
was close to the city of Racinethat had lake patrol.
So you know, on my days off I'dbe out on the boat doing police
work and then I was alwaysworking.
And it's not what it's allabout.
I mean, if you don't put yourfamily first, you're going to
(16:12):
lose your family.
They say a lot of firstresponders, including police
officers, they get divorcedbecause, at least for me, I
worked all the time.
I was too into my job and Iwasn't into my family and that,
and they suffered.
I, I worked third shift and Iremember my ex-wife telling me
that she didn't like that.
It worked well for the kids, itworked well for her job, but
(16:35):
she didn't like the fact that Iwent to you know work at 11 PM,
you know, and she went to bed atnight so she'd be sleeping by
herself and it wasn't verycomfortable for her and really
didn't listen, really didn't paymuch attention.
I was just finally doing thejob I wanted and loved and it
was kind of just selfish and allabout me and ultimately, our
(16:55):
marriage ended in divorce.
So put your family first.
Put your wife, your girlfriend,your boyfriend, your spouse
first.
Those are going to be thepeople that support you when you
go through rough times.
You know, like I did, I wentthrough rough times and you know
your kids are going to supportyou in a way.
Your spouse is going to supportyou in a way.
It's important.
It's important to communicateand to let them know that you're
(17:18):
there and you support them,because they're going to support
you eventually.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You know, as numb as you had become to seeing dead
bodies, violence, things likethis.
As numb as you were, was therealmost an addiction to the
adrenaline that goes along withgoing on a police call.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Without a doubt, absolutely.
You know, especially thirdshift.
I love to work in third shiftbecause all the calls that we
got dispatched to were legit.
They weren't just, you know,trouble with kids or a fake
business alarm.
When you got dispatched youknow you were going to the real
deal.
So I mean it was an adrenalinerush and nothing else compares
to it.
I mean you could be going justputting around at 10 miles an
(18:05):
hour.
Then all of a sudden you'regoing 110 miles an hour.
You know it's great, it'sexciting, it's dangerous, but it
is, it's that adrenaline rush.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
When you have that adrenaline, does fear not exist.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I think you have a little bit of anxiety, but your
training kicks in.
You know, just like athletessports athletes they have a
little anxiety, but that helpsyou right, even like if you're
public speed, I think, at leastfor me.
I'm very focused on the task athand and what I know I have to
do, and that just takes over.
I mean, in Wisconsin, policeofficers and first responders
(18:38):
are very well trained and a lotof times I just did what I was
trained to do.
I guess you would sayinstinctively, because I didn't
realize I would, I would docertain things and then you
would check the body camera orthe squad car camera and it's
like, yeah, okay, yeah, I forgot, I did that, but I did it.
Fear I don't think I was afraid.
I just I knew it was time forme to do my job, to do real
(19:01):
police work, and people dependon the police to protect them,
to keep them safe, to help them,and I, at least.
For me, there's no time to takea step back and be afraid of
something, because I'm not goingto be able to help somebody if
I'm fearful of everything.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
When did you realize that your experiences you had as
a police officer, you were notprocessing them in healthy ways?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
On April 8th 2016,.
I was involved in a criticalincident at a police department
up north from the city of Racineand I used deadly force on
someone who armed themselveswith a hatchet inside our
Walmart store and initially thecall was non-emergent.
I was sitting at the policedepartment typing up a retail
theft report from another retailstore called Shopko it doesn't
(19:49):
exist anymore and I getdispatched to Walmart and it was
basically can you respond andassist a couple chaperones with
somebody who's refusing to leavethe store?
And it's not a big deal.
We do that a lot of times.
We do it at restaurants, atretail stores, at people's homes
, other businesses, so not a bigdeal not emergent.
So I acknowledged and I grabbedmy laptop, walked out of the
(20:11):
back of the police departmentand jumped in my ER car, my
squad car, and just starteddriving to Walmart.
I found out that initially thatone of the chaperones called
911 and ended up being a hangupcall and then dispatch called
her back and then kept her onthe line the whole time and kind
of gave me the play by play asto what was going on inside
Walmart.
Her name was Melissa, she was apatient at a state mental
(20:36):
health facility and she was outon a good behavior pass, it's my
understanding and they had goneto a restaurant.
And then they went across thestreet to Walmart and the
chaperone said it's time toleave and she didn't want to
leave.
So she walked back to thesupporting goods section and
ripped open a hatchet from thepackaging.
They called 911 and I wasresponding and initially
(20:58):
dispatch advised me that she wastrying to remove a knife from
the package and not that a knifewould have been any less
threatening, but that's what Ithought it was, you know, the
typical pocket knife that a lotof people carry.
And so when I heard that, Iturned down my lights and sirens
and I started stepping it up,traveling at a higher rate of
speed.
Now, walmart was, you know,maybe a mile and a half away
(21:20):
from the police department.
So I got there fairly quicklyand initially I was going to
respond through the auto center.
Walmart is usually set up thesame you have the auto center,
you have the sporting goodssection and I knew she was back
in sporting goods.
So I wanted to respond throughthe auto center and hopefully
keep her contained back there,so she didn't walk to the front
of the store.
Now, this was on a Friday at5.15 PM, super busy in the store
(21:45):
, hundreds of people in thestore.
But then dispatch advised meshe's threatening customers,
she's walking towards the frontof the store.
So my whole plan of respondingchanged right there.
So what I did is I entered theparking lot.
And I still remember all thesepeople in the parking lot.
They wouldn't get out of theway.
They were looking at my policecar kind of like hey, what's
going on?
And I'm thinking, will youplease move?
(22:05):
There's a true emergency inthere where you get out of the
way.
And finally I was able to parkin front of the general
merchandise entrance and what Idid was I parked my squad car
and I turned my sirens off but Ileft the lights going because I
was hoping that if anybody elsewould be responding to Walmart
and they would see my squad carin front of that door, they
(22:25):
would think twice about goingthrough that door.
So I parked, I exited my squadcar and drew my weapon right
away because I didn't know whereshe was.
I knew she was walking towardsthe front of the store and there
was a man and a woman there andI said where is she?
And they kind of pointed downtowards the lawn and garden, the
health and beauty aisle, whichis a main aisle, and I ran down
(22:46):
there and I made contact withher and her back was facing me
and it looked like she washacking up something on a pallet
.
And you know, I identifiedmyself.
She turned and faced me andthat's when I realized that's
not a knife, that's a hatchet.
Face me and that's when Irealized that's not a knife,
that's a hatchet.
So I gave her multiple verbalcommands to stop, to drop the
hatchet.
She wouldn't listen to me, shekept advancing towards me and
(23:07):
then I made the decision toshoot her and I shot twice.
One round went in and out ofone of her legs and the second
round struck her kind of centermass in the sternum and she fell
to the ground and she did endup dying hours later after
surgery.
But I know that when I pulledthe trigger, that changed
everything.
I changed lives.
(23:28):
I took her life, I changed mylives, those who witnessed the
shooting because there was abouta dozen people there that
watched everything happen, andeven people on the other side of
the store that may have heardthe gunshots and think, oh my
gosh, what happened.
So everybody was affected oneway or another.
And I remember after shooting Ilooked around at the customers
(23:50):
that were there and I saidplease check yourself and please
check each other, because Iwanted to make sure my two shots
only hit her and nobody else.
So while they were doing that,I also looked at a Walmart
employee and I said please geton the intercom and please ask
if there's a nurse or a doctorto please come over here and
help until the ambulance gethere.
(24:11):
And there was actually a nursein the light bulb aisle and she
goes.
I'm a nurse, so she came overand helped until the ambulance
showed up and that nurse evenwrote a statement and she said
she was in the light bulb aisleby herself and when I was
yelling very loudly drop it,drop it she dropped the light
bulb, thinking I was yelling ather, even though she couldn't
see what was going on.
(24:31):
So everything seemed surreal.
I knew what I had done.
I don't have any doubt in mymind that I did the right thing
because I had been a policeofficer I want to say gosh, 15
years, 14 years.
At the time.
I had a lot of training andexperience.
I was a firearms instructor.
If I could have used my pepperspray, I would have my taser, I
(24:53):
would have my baton I would have, but she could have killed me
or she could have killedsomebody else or caused great
bodily harm.
So I made the decision to shootand I'm okay with that.
So after everything was said anddone, at Walmart, my corporal,
who was my training officer whenI first started at that police
department, kind of brought meout of the store and into his
(25:15):
squad car and almost immediatelythe media was there and we
drove to the police departmentand kind of had a briefing and
figured out what we were goingto do.
And once everything was saidand done, I got to go home and I
had a take-home squad car.
So they had taken my gun, I wasstill in uniform and I hopped
in my squad car and the firstthing I did was I reached up
(25:36):
into my visor because my cellphone was there and I wanted to
call my mom and dad because theylived three and a half four
hours away and I wanted them tohear it from me what happened,
and not from the news, becauseit was all over the place.
It was even in Minnesota.
It was in other states that theshooting had happened.
So that's the first thing thatcrossed my mind I need to call
(25:58):
my mom and dad, let them know.
And I remember calling them andI said I've been involved in a
shooting, I'm okay.
And then I drove home and lateron I talked to my mom and she
goes I didn't recognize yourvoice.
I could tell you were in shock.
You said you were okay, but Icould tell you weren't.
(26:18):
So I had driven home that nightand the first thing I did was
walk into my house.
Nobody was there.
I was divorced at the time andmy daughters were with my
ex-wife.
And the first thing I did waswalk in the house and I knelt
down next to my love seat and Iprayed to God that Melissa
wouldn't die.
I didn't want her to die Quite.
Honestly, I didn't think shewas going to die.
She was laying on the groundand talking to paramedics and I
(26:41):
didn't think she was going todie.
So then I went into my bedroom,took all my gear off and I
remember sitting at the foot ofmy bed and I just felt so heavy
and I don't know why.
Even with all my gear off, Ifelt so heavy.
And once I was ready, I ordereda pizza, I turned on the news
to kind of see what they weresaying about me, even though
(27:02):
everybody told me don't do that.
I'm like I'm going to turn onthe news anyways.
And then I went to bed.
I slept well, I think maybebecause of the adrenaline dump,
but then I woke up in themorning.
This was Saturday.
I had the weekend off becausethe investigation the part that
I would participate in theinvestigation wouldn't start
till Monday.
(27:23):
And I thought to myself I needto do something normal today, if
that's even possible after youshoot somebody.
And I was going to go get myhaircut and pick up my kids.
And I'm walking out to my carand my chief called me and it
was a typical hey, how are youdoing?
I'm doing good, when can youcome in and talk to me?
And I I said, well, I'm goingto go get my haircut first and
then pick up my kids, and then Ican, I can come talk to you.
(27:43):
And he said, adam, you know, II didn't want to tell you this
over the phone, but she died andthat changed everything.
And I respect the chief fortelling me over the phone
because, just like me wanting totell my parents what happened.
He wanted me to find out rightaway too, and not from the news
(28:04):
or social media or a textmessage.
But I remember getting off thatphone call and sitting in my SUV
and thinking this changeseverything.
I killed somebody.
What's going to happen now?
It's not just a shooting.
I mean, I took somebody's lifeand so I remember going and
getting my haircut.
Barely the whole weekend was ablur.
(28:26):
I remember going and speakingto my chief and he told me right
away that he's going to releasemy police photograph.
So he did that, that, and thenI just I I guess I just went
home for the weekend untilmonday happened yeah, you know,
when you said that she had beenspeaking to the paramedics yeah,
yeah and then you said that shehad passed away.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Like I felt a shock yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I'm getting chills right now because every time I
listen to that 911 call and Ihear me yelling 276 county shots
fired, law enforcement shotsfired, send EMS.
I remember being there.
That changed everything Right.
Then my life forever changed,and not only my life but her
life and her mom and dad's life.
(29:13):
And then we find out that shehad a six-year-old daughter also
, and at the time my daughterswere younger.
So I get it.
It's not something I'm proud of.
I didn't wake up that morningthinking I hope I go to work and
shoot somebody.
It's, you know, in lawenforcement the possibility is
there, but the probability, yeah, probably not.
(29:35):
But that was my, my reality.
I mean, I actually shot andkilled somebody and I'm thinking
what's going to happen next?
You know, I all that unknown,you know.
I remember Monday morning whenI'm driving to the sheriff's
department to be interviewed bydifferent investigators.
I remember driving there andbeing really worried because I'm
thinking what if the video andthe 911 call that we go over?
(29:58):
I mean, what if it's not how Iremember it, because there's a
lot of stuff I remember and alot of stuff I don't remember.
And once we sat down andstarted listening to the 911
call and watching differentvideos.
It was exactly how I remember.
But even watching the videosyou know Walmart has a lot of
cameras and I remember seeingmyself and thinking I don't
remember doing that, but that'sme doing what I was trained to
(30:20):
do.
And that's why training is soimportant, especially in law
enforcement and first responders, because we work crazy hours.
You know, we got to jugglearound our schedule, our
spouse's schedule, our kid'sschedule and for me, for example
, you know I would work thirdshift and then, after working 11
pm to 7 am, I might have to goto in-service from 8 am to 4 pm
(30:42):
and it's like, come on, you knowI'm sucking down energy drinks
or coffee and I'm barely stayingawake.
I don't want to do this.
I got to change the kid'sschedules around at daycare.
But it's so important to go totraining because I'm a prime
example.
I watched myself on video dowhat I was trained to do, but
some of it I don't remember.
But I'm like that's me, becausethat's what my training taught
(31:03):
me.
So that's why it's so important.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Those that witnessed the incident.
I have to imagine there werewitness statements taken.
What did they say?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I believe there was 12 witnesses and they all pretty
much wrote the same thing.
They wrote that I arrived,identified myself and that she
had a hatchet.
And then I don't remember this,but most of them said this in
their statement that she wasadvancing towards me and the
last thing she did was raise thehatchet above her head, and
(31:34):
that's when I shot.
I don't remember that.
The last thing I remember isher making kind of a figure
eight swooping motion and then Ishot.
But that that's not whateverybody else said and I I'm
not a psychologist, I don't geteverything about the brain.
But people tell me that's thepart of my brain that's
protecting me from that visualtrauma, which is great.
(31:58):
You know I've never hadnightmares about that either.
So the brain's wonderful, atleast it's wonderful for me in
this event.
But you know they all wrote thesame thing of what they
witnessed.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Was this the first officer involved shooting for
you?
It was.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
It was the very first officer involved shooting for
me, the very first officerinvolved shooting for you.
It was.
It was the very first officerinvolved shooting for me, the
very first officer involvedshooting for the police
department.
You know, at the time I hadnever and I still have never
used my pepper spray on anybody.
I've never used my baton onanybody.
I've used my tasers a handfulof times, but over the years in
my law enforcement career, Ialways prided myself in being
(32:35):
able to talk people down and notuse force.
So that's something that Istruggled with for many years
after that.
I wasn't good enough that I.
You are good enough because youwere able to make that decision
, and this was a totallydifferent incident than anything
(33:00):
that you've ever experienced inyour life.
It's been nine years since myshooting and I know that I did
the right thing.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Was it this incident, then?
That was the straw that brokethe camel's back, if you will,
which led you down the dark pathof making bad decisions.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Absolutely it was.
I was off duty for about 30days, for about a month, which
is typical, which is protocol.
While you're investigating,then you have to be cleared by
the district attorney's office.
And they cleared me.
They said my shooting wasjustified and then I went back
to work and I had no doubt in mymind I was going to go back to
work, I wanted to go back towork and maybe I went back to
(33:40):
work a little bit too soon.
I mean, looking back now youcan always look back and woulda,
coulda, shoulda, but at thetime I felt like I was going
back to work at the right time.
But I did.
I started suffering in silence,I started poorly coping and what
I mean by that is I would abusealcohol.
You know, before my shooting Icollected wine and I would have
(34:00):
glasses of wine.
But you know, after my shootingI went through those wine
bottles really quick and then Iwent right to liquor and I went
to vodka.
I regularly drank a 750milliliter bottle of vodka in 30
minutes or less, blacked out,and slept a day away.
Bottle of vodka in 30 minutesor less, blacked out, and slept
a day away.
Before I would go somewheregrocery shopping an event,
always off duty I never drank onduty but I would stop by the
(34:23):
local gas station and I wouldbuy two or three of those
cinnamon whiskey shot bottlesand I would drink two or three
of them right in my car, in theparking lot, and then I would
either throw them in the back ofmy car or I would throw them
out the window while I wasdriving to my destination.
You know wherever I was headingto, and I would say to myself
you know, it would probably takeabout 30 minutes for alcohol to
(34:45):
kick in, and then I would bewherever I needed to be.
And that's not true.
And down the road, there was atime that I even I think I drove
(35:16):
about 40 miles, intoxicated,with my youngest daughter.
I was picking her up at hermom's my ex-wife's house for
gymnastics.
After I had picked her up, wewere going down the freeway and
it was just a simple turn rightto go towards gymnastics or turn
left.
Well, I turned left and I drove, I think, about 20 miles out of
the way and I was intoxicatedand I'm ashamed of that because
that was my daughter.
But the behavior it was justvery self-destructive.
And another way that I poorlycoped is casual sex.
I would meet women onlinemutually to have sex and
sometimes within 30 minutes orless we'd be having sex.
And for me, sex is fun, it'splayful, it's exciting, it's
(35:38):
something you share withsomebody.
That's important.
But I guess I was just chasingthat dopamine high or whatever.
But I remember one time layingin bed with a woman after we had
sex and I thought you got tostop this, adam.
I started not liking myself, butthat still wasn't enough for me
to stop and I would alwaysworry what if I get her pregnant
(35:58):
, what if I catch an STD?
But even that wasn't enough forme to stop.
It took years for me to slowthat down and stop.
And you know, there was even,you know, a couple of times that
I tried marijuana for the firsttime.
I smoked marijuana and triedsome marijuana gummies and a lot
of people are like, oh, it'sodd, no big deal, and I'm like
but to me it is.
It's a big deal.
I always prided myself in neverdoing drugs, not even marijuana
(36:22):
, all my life.
So I continued this behavior foryears and I suffered in silence
and I find it hard to believethat nobody realized that this
was going on.
I can't speak for anybody,obviously, but I think they
probably knew.
They just didn't know what tosay or do, so they chose not to
do anything and not to getinvolved.
Self-harm was another thing.
(36:44):
One time I took a 12-inchcrescent wrench and I banged my
knee several times, enough tocause redness, abrasions,
bruising, and then I went to theemergency room and I lied to
them and I said I fell down theback steps, hit my knee on a
manhole cover that covered theseptic tank and they did x-rays
(37:04):
and they gave me pain meds and adoctor's excuse and crutches
and this was all to get out ofwork for the Fourth of July.
And my chief at the timesupported me a hundred percent
and I feel I feel real guiltyfor lying to him.
But I I think because of thestigma, I just felt like I was
running out of excuses to not goto work.
(37:25):
If I truly believe, if I wouldhave went in and said, chief,
something's not right.
I don't know why, but I justcan't work, I'm feeling
triggered I'm sure he would havesaid it's okay, it's okay Adam,
because he did it every othertime.
But I felt like I was runningout of excuses, so my behavior
was just self-destructive.
It was harmful.
I was pushing people away and Ijust didn't care.
(37:48):
I was looking for the next wayto cope, to make myself feel
good, to numb the pain.
Nothing else mattered to me.
It's sad, but it was my realityfor many years.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
As you're running out of excuses what are you running
from?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
What are you deeply running from?
That's a good question, becauseI'm not 100% sure.
I think maybe not being goodenough, killing somebody, taking
somebody's mother from them,daughter from them, grandchild
from them, taking somebody'slife I know I did my job and I
know I did the right thing, butit still doesn't make it easier.
I mean I took somebody awayfrom people that loved her.
(38:33):
I mean she was struggling withmental health too, but that
doesn't make it easy to do.
It's not a normal thing to goand shoot and kill somebody and
I think deep down I was justreally struggling with that,
even though I knew I did theright thing.
I was just struggling with that.
It's something that I thinkabout every single day one way
or another.
I'm healthier now and doingmuch better now, positively
(38:57):
coping in ways, but still it'ssomething that lives with me
forever.
Some days I kind of get bummedout too, and some days, oh,
today sucks or whatever.
But I recognize it now, Iunderstand it.
But I think that's what I wasrunning from.
Maybe I was just running fromall the feelings, all the
emotions involved in it, andthat's why I used alcohol,
(39:19):
casual sex and marijuana to tonumb that and it only made
things worse.
You know, momentarily it madethings better, but it didn't fix
anything.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Did you want to die?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Um, that's a real good question.
I I did no-transcript, but atthe time I don't think I wanted
(40:05):
to die.
I never thought you know what Iwant to kill myself.
Today's it.
But as I go back and you know,through therapy now because I do
see a therapist and I do takemedicine and it helps me and I
learn a lot about my behaviorand there's no other way to
explain it that some wayinternally I wanted to.
You know, god and I had somepretty.
(40:26):
I was pretty pissed off at God.
We had some pretty heatedconversations.
I prayed many times that Iwouldn't wake up in the morning.
You know, dear God, please letme not wake up.
But he made me wake up everysingle day because he had other
plans, kind of like tough,you're going to go through this
because I got something else foryou, if you like it or not, too
(40:47):
bad, which I'm grateful for.
So, yeah, I do.
I think I did want to die.
I just I never really had aplan and every time I thought
about it I also thought aboutthe people that loved me and the
people who depended on me andneeded me.
So I think that got in the wayof it.
I truly believe that if Ididn't have my daughters, I
(41:09):
wouldn't be here speaking withyou, john, I'd dead, because
ultimately my girls need me morethan anything.
I mean my mom and dad andsister too.
But I think my daughters reallyplayed a big role, probably
bigger than they even realized.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know it's interesting, because one thing I
hear as I talk to you is yourempathy toward Melissa, toward
her family, towards thewitnesses in Walmart, towards
everyone, and it's as though youwere able to give empathy
(41:45):
towards others, includingstrangers, but you weren't able
to find that empathy foryourself and you suffered in
silence and you suffered insilence.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, I'm religious, Ibelieve in God and I truly
believe that when I die I'mgoing to heaven and then I'll
meet Melissa and she won't bestruggling with mental health,
everything will be better and Ihope she welcomes me with open
arms and says thank you andeverything's okay.
Someday I would really like tomeet Melissa's mom and dad,
(42:15):
melissa's daughter, melissa'sfamily.
That's a part of me that Istruggle with too, because I'm
not a monster.
I didn't go to work wanting tokill somebody and I think that
would go a long way with healing, not only for me but for them.
But if I ever decide to reachout the ball's in their court
because maybe they don't want tohave anything to do with me or
(42:36):
meeting me, I do rememberlooking on Facebook, at
Melissa's mom's Facebook account, and it seemed like they were
struggling with finding themoney to even bury her, her, and
(42:58):
that's something that reallyhurt.
Also because I can't.
I can't imagine being at homeand getting a phone call and
finding out that your daughterdied.
I can't imagine getting a callfinding out that the police
killed your daughter.
I just yeah, I have a lot ofquestions.
Probably most won't be answered, but eventually I think they
will be.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, were you told not to reach out to the family,
or?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
terminated from that police department.
What happened was December 28th2021, I went to a active
shooter training at anelementary school and I was
seated comfortably, like I amnow, and we were watching a
PowerPoint presentation aboutdifferent active shooters in the
United States over the yearsand overseas.
And I started getting reallyhot and uncomfortable and a knot
in my stomach.
And about a minute passed and Ireached out to my forehead and
(43:57):
I was just drenched in water.
I was sweating, I was having apanic attack and there's
probably about 20 or 30 otherpolice officers there and they
all knew me.
They knew I was involved in theshooting, they knew where I
worked.
But my first thought was I haveto fight this and I have to
hide it.
I can't let anybody know thatI'm having a panic attack.
(44:18):
But it would have been okay Ithink it would have been okay if
I would have said I'mstruggling, I can't do this
training, I need to go home.
They probably would have saidit's all right, adam, we get it.
But my first thought I thinkbecause of that stigma is I got
to fight this and I got to hideit.
And I did.
I went through the training,went on a couple of days off
(44:39):
after the training and then Iwent to work a patrol shift on
New Year's Eve and I was adetective at the time.
I was promoted to the veryfirst detective on the police
department a year after myshooting.
So I was in uniform and Istarted my shift on New Year's
Eve.
The same time I started myshift on my shooting, I sat down
in my ER car or my police carand I started getting things set
up and I was like you know whatI'm done, I quit, I ain't doing
(45:00):
this no more.
And I don't think I wanted toquit being a cop.
I think I wanted to quit copingthe way I had been over the
years because it wasn't workingfor me anymore.
And I recognize that I just wasdone.
I'm done, I'm not doing this nomore.
And I reached out to a sergeantthat I knew and I said I need
you to come with me to thechief's office.
I'm quitting, I ain't doingthis.
(45:20):
He's hold up a second, you'renot going to quit, I'll meet
with you.
And we went and talked to thechief and this was a different
chief.
It wasn't the same chief thatwas with me during my shooting
because he had retired after 30plus years.
So the new chief and thesergeant, they were supportive.
They were like go home, take asmuch time as you need, let me
(45:43):
know when you're ready to comeback to work.
And I think it was about twoweeks.
I reached out to the chief and Isaid I'm ready to come back to
work and he said well, the onlyway that you can do that is you
need to take a psychologicalevaluation, a fitness for duty
test.
And I was like all right, yeah,I'm a strong mental health
advocate.
I had been speaking about mymental health since 2019.
This was now, you know, 2022.
(46:04):
So I had I set up thatappointment and I remember the
day of the appointment, drivingthere, and I thought to myself
I'm going to lie, I'm going totry to beat this test, I don't
need to take any kind offreaking test, I'm fine, I don't
need to do this.
And then I got there and I'm inthe waiting room and I thought
the only way you're going to getbetter at them is if you be
honest.
You have to be honest witheverything.
(46:26):
And I chose to be honest andthe tests were from 9 am to 4 pm
.
There was no lunch, no breakall these different tests.
And after that test, I wasdiagnosed with major depressive
disorder, ptsd, acute stresswith dissociative features, and
I was unfit for duty and Icouldn't go back to work.
(46:46):
So I requested a 90-day leaveof absence and I began getting
better.
I mean, it was like a nine-pageunfit-for-duty explanation and
I was reading it and I wascrying because that explained
everything about me over theyears.
Those are the answers I needed.
I'm like all right, how do Igot to get better?
(47:07):
What do I got to do now?
And I was going to therapy two,three times a week.
I wasn't missing anyappointments.
You know this was in January,february, march and April of
2022.
And in April 2022, I was put ona safety plan because there
were some suicidal ideations inthis unfit for duty examination,
the psychological evaluation.
(47:30):
And you know, it's differentwhen it happens to you, because
I was always there for otherpeople who were in crisis, and
this was me.
It's different now and and Iwas okay with it, but it's just
different when you're goingthrough it.
And so then, also that samemonth, one of the sergeants came
out to my house.
(47:50):
I didn't live in the community,I lived outside in a different
city and he came out to my house.
I didn't live in the community,I lived outside in a different
city, and he came out to myhouse and gave me a cease and
desist order to immediatelycease and desist, speaking about
my personal mental health whenit comes to my shooting, and
said it makes the policedepartment look bad and if you
don't stop talking about it,you're going to be disciplined
(48:12):
or terminated.
And that scared the hell out ofme.
I'm thinking I've been doingthis since 2019.
And now you're telling me toshut up about it.
So I did, I stopped, I shutdown my website, I stopped
speaking and then my 90-dayleave of absence expired and my
chief called me in and we had ameeting and he told me we're not
(48:34):
extending your absence.
You can either resign or you'regoing to be terminated.
So I thought it over and I chosenot to resign.
I was thinking you know, I'vebeen here for 14 years.
I have never been disciplined.
I had never been suspended.
I received medals, awards,citations I mean all this good
(48:55):
stuff.
The first detective, the firstshooting in the history of the
police department.
I was cleared from the shooting.
The lawsuit against me was evendropped.
Everything was.
I just couldn't believe it and Ichose not to resign.
So I was terminated and Iremember being walked out of the
police department thinking whatam I going to do now?
My lifelong dream to be anERCAR man, a police officer, is
(49:20):
over, because I did my job and Isuffered with mental health and
I truly feel like they justwashed their hands of me, like
Adam's not our problem anymoreand that was it.
So yeah, I mean, I mean I justI couldn't believe it.
And then, on top of that,nobody at the police department
reached out, texted me, calledme, emailed me nothing.
(49:43):
I was completely ghosted byeverybody and it's been almost
three years now and still nobodycommunicates with me.
And that hurts, because thesemen and women were on life and
death calls together and theyknew me, they knew my kids, they
knew my family to help me moveand when I really needed support
they weren't there for me andthat still hurts.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
I can't imagine.
But what I will say is that weare going to let you get your
story out there again today.
Yeah, speak loud.
All right, I got your back.
I have a question.
In 2019, that's when you beganto start speaking of mental
health issues At that point,were you still drinking heavily,
having casual sex, things ofthat nature?
(50:29):
So while you were speakingabout mental health, you still
were.
Maybe it was camouflaging.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Oh yeah, I was what's the word that best describes
that?
A hypocrite.
I mean, I was kind of actinglike things were better and they
weren't, but I was still tryingto get my story out there to
help others.
But I was still struggling.
You know, after becoming adetective, I was the only
detective, so I continued to goto homicides, suicides, fatal
(50:56):
crashes and other criticalincidents.
So on top of my trauma from myshooting, I was having all this
cumulative trauma stacking ontop of it too.
And I was still able to do myjob, get awards, do a good job.
But I was on my days off.
I was poorly coping for years.
My pastor at the time he'spassed away, but he reached out
(51:19):
in support of me and I told himto F off publicly on Facebook
and I don't remember doing that.
But I remember the next dayreading my messages and I'm like
, oh my God, I I told my pastorto, you know, to F off.
And you know there were policeofficers that were reading this
(51:41):
and I remember going back towork and they had mentioned
something to me.
But I really think it was hey,if Adam needs help, he's going
to reach out.
Otherwise everything's kind ofstatus quo, keep doing your
thing.
And and I wasn't going to reachout, I wasn't going to ask for
help.
I thought I could handle itmyself.
I figure you know, if I justkeep going, things will fall
(52:01):
into place, things will work out.
But that's not true.
I needed help and I wasn'tgoing to ask for it.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
That's common, sadly, you know.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, more common than people realize.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
yeah, the psychological test yielded what
you call the book of answers.
Do you still have that book?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
I do.
Yep, it described likeself-isolating may have
difficulty with relationships.
It described likeself-isolating may have
difficulty with relationships.
I mean it just kind of yeah, itwas full of real good stuff.
Like I said, I cried when Iread it.
I wasn't super happy about it.
I mean, I was happy in a sensethat it explained, it described
(52:49):
me and it helped me understandmore.
But reading that was kind of agut check, kind of a hey Adam,
this is you, now this is youropportunity to get better.
And by doing this you'reputting yourself first and now
it's time.
So it wasn't easy to do, but itwas important to do.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
Out of curiosity, have you brought that book back
out and looked at it and checkoff?
Oh, I am better here.
I'm better here, I'm betterhere.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I actually have it right here.
I am better.
And after I was terminated Iwent home that afternoon.
I didn't know what I was goingto do.
Unfortunately, my insurancedidn't provide any kind of
financial support.
I didn't get workers'compensation, I didn't get
short-term disability.
Last year I had to file frombankruptcy because I couldn't
(53:38):
catch up with my finances.
But I remember communicatingwith my sister.
Her name's Amy.
She's a year and a half youngerthan me and she's like what are
you going to do?
And I'm like I don't know, amy,I have no idea.
And she goes why don't you movedown here?
And I told her, I said I hardlyhave any money, I can't do that
.
And she goes Adam, all you haveto do is get down here and
(53:58):
we'll take care of the rest.
So I did that.
I moved down there and movedinto my sister's basement.
We joked that, hey, at least itain't mom and dad's basement.
And I wasn't seeing a therapistat the time.
I had weaned off my medicationand I knew I wasn't doing.
Okay.
My sister was on the outsidelooking in, looking at her big
(54:20):
brother and knowing that Ineeded therapy, knowing that I
needed to get back into therapyand medicine, and so, behind my
back, she was looking for atherapist for me.
And no hard feelings, I'mcompletely blessed.
I love the heck out of her.
She found a therapist and thetherapist that I see today.
I finally put myself first andgot healthy.
And it's difficult for firstresponders police officers
(54:42):
because we always put everybodyelse first, we don't take care
of ourselves.
And I finally did that.
And then after a year about Isaid you know what?
I still want to be a cop.
Once I got healthier I knew Istill wanted to be an ERCAR man,
I wanted to be a police officerand so I started applying.
I started applying at otherpolice departments and I sent
(55:04):
applications out to 50 policedepartments.
And the next day after mailingthose applications out, I
started getting emails and phonecalls.
People wanted to interview meand I'm like wow, because I have
a lot of training andexperience.
I have a lot of experience thatmost officers don't have,
especially when it comes to myshooting and mental health.
So in a two-week period, threepolice departments in three
(55:28):
separate counties offered meconditional offers of employment
and I picked, picked one, andthat's why I work now.
Shortly after I was hired, I waspromoted to captain and my
chief now, sean McGee, is great.
He absolutely supports me.
We have a lake patrol at thepolice department.
We were out on our boat andhe's like you know what, adam?
(55:48):
I know that you speak publiclyabout mental health.
I support you.
If you want to keep doing that,I support you.
You can even wear your policeuniform if you want to do it.
And I'm thinking, wow, okay.
And we also have a therapy dognamed Howie, so I love him.
He's great.
So it's just a blessing indisguise.
And why has this all happened?
Because I finally put myselffirst, got the right kind of
(56:11):
help, got healthy, and now I'mback on the job and I truly
believe this journey is.
This is what God wants me to do.
I absolutely have no doubt inmy mind.
I went through hell.
He wanted me to go through allthat, to be here talking to you,
jen, to sharing my story, toyeah, I mean I'm a better cop
now.
I'm a better father, a betterperson, healthier, better it's.
(56:34):
Yeah, I mean I still have mydays, but I'm doing good.
I want people to know that it'sokay to talk about your mental
health and that they're notalone and they don't have to
suffer in silence.
There's so many resources outthere.
There's so many people outthere even complete strangers
that want to help, and not justbecause they're getting paid,
but because they're good people,they genuinely care and they
(56:57):
want to help.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Can you tell our audience how to find you?
You?
Speaker 2 (57:01):
can visit me at StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg.
My email address is there, adam, at
StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg,and you can also find my phone
number there.
You can call me, you can textme.
I look forward to hearing fromanybody.
If they need something, pleasereach out.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
Adam, thank you so much for finally putting
yourself first.
I think that is the perfectmessage to end our conversation
on today.
Thank you for being my guest onthe I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Thank you, jen, it's been my pleasure.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening.
This is Jen Lee with the I NeedBlue podcast.
Remember you are stronger thanyou think.
Until next time you.
Imagine when you share your darkest hours they
become someone else's light.
I'm Jennifer Lee, a globalcommunity storyteller, host,
author and survivor, guiding youthrough genuine, unfiltered
conversations.
Together, we break the silence,shatter stigma and amplify
(00:34):
voices that need to be heard.
Each episode stands as atestament to survival, healing
and reclaiming your power.
Listen to I Need Blue on ApplePodcasts, spotify, youtube or
your favorite platform.
Learn more at wwwineedbluenet.
(01:00):
Trigger warning I Need Blueshares real, real life stories
of trauma, violence and abusemeant to empower and support.
Please take care of yourself andask for help if needed.
Now let's begin today's story.
(01:20):
Since he was a little boy, adamalways knew he was born to
serve.
The sound of sirens didn'tscare him.
They called him.
While other kids ran from thewindow, adam ran toward it
wide-eyed and heart-pounding,dreaming of the day he'd wear
(01:41):
the badge.
That dream led him throughcollege, the military and
eventually into a patrol car ofhis own.
Then, friday, april 8, 2016,5.15 pm, a call came in.
Sirens screamed.
Adam raced toward danger, thistime to a Walmart where his life
(02:06):
would change forever.
That evening, adam was involvedin an officer-involved shooting
.
What followed was a silencemore deafening than the sirens,
a cease and desist letterpressure to stay quiet about his
emotional turmoil andeventually, in ultimatum, resign
(02:28):
or face termination.
But Adam didn't stay silent.
In 2019, he began to share histruth with anyone willing to
listen.
The weight of PTSD nearlycrushed him.
He coped the only way.
He knew how, ways that weren'thealthy but felt necessary at
(02:49):
the time.
His story is raw, honest andhuman.
Today, adam shares his healingjourney to ignite hope, speak
truth to trauma and to honor thelittle boy who still runs to
the window when he hears sirens.
It is my absolute honor towelcome Adam, captain of Police
(03:14):
for the Hartford Township PoliceDepartment, as today's special
guest.
Adam, thank you for yourcourage, thank you for accepting
my invitation and welcome tothe I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you, Jen.
I really appreciate thisopportunity and look forward to
sharing my experience with youand everyone else who wants to
listen.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Absolutely, and what's interesting is I found
you through a Facebook post, andwe know how important social
media is, so thank you forposting, and I'm so thankful
that I was led to your post andwe were able to connect.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I agree, social media is great when it works and it
helps me share my experiencewith others and reach people
that I wouldn't normally reach,and that's why we're here
together and I think it'swonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Adam, I know it's really important for you to be a
resource to others who aresuffering in silence.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Go ahead, share your email address so others can get
a hold of you as they listen tothis conversation, if they need
someone to reach out to.
Sure, I'm the founder of Stopthe Threat, stop the Stigma.
You can visit me atStopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg
Once you go there.
My email address is there, adam, at
StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg,and you can also find my phone
number there.
You can call me, you can textme.
I look forward to hearing fromfrom anybody.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
if they if they need something, please reach out as a
mom of two boys and they lovedpolice fire.
You know they had their fireboots, their whatever get ups
halloween costumes.
So when I think of that littleboy that would go running to the
window when they hear sirens,it takes me back to my little
(05:07):
boys.
Tell me what you were feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, you know, I'm 50 years old now but I'm still
that little boy because everytime I hear a siren I still go
run into the window or look outthe car window and try to see
what's coming up the road.
It's just exciting to me tryingto see what's coming up the
road.
It's just exciting to me.
And I was born and raised inthe city of Racine, which is in
Wisconsin, on Highway 20, whichis also Washington Avenue.
(05:32):
It's one of the mainthoroughfares in and out of the
city of Racine and as far backas I can remember and as far
back as my parents told me,every time I heard a siren I
would run up to that window andlook outside hoping to see a
police car.
Fire engines are cool too.
So are ambulances andeverything else that makes a
siren.
I love it all, but I waslooking for that police car and
(05:56):
every time that I would see apolice car go by with the lights
and sirens going, I would tellmy parents an er car, an er car
because of the siren, the ER,and it would make me excited.
I absolutely loved it.
I still love it, and my parentssaid the first time I saw a
police officer get out of apolice car or an ER car.
I looked at them and I said anER car man, when I grow up, I
(06:19):
want to be an ER car man.
So as far back as I can remember, that was my dream.
I always wanted to be an ERCARman, a police officer, and so I
graduated from high school.
I went into college and secureda criminal justice degree and
then joined the army, where Ihad my first experiences in law
(06:39):
enforcement as a military policeofficer.
And I still remember my firstcall as a military police
officer.
It was at the post office onbase and I remember seeing
myself in a window and I'm likethis is great, I love being a
cop, and I just continued topursue that.
Once my career in the militaryended, I went back home to
(07:01):
Racine and I was lucky enough toget hired by the Racine Police
Department where it all started.
It was absolutely a dream cometrue.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I am still smiling from the ER car story.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
You are smiling, people can hear it in your voice
your passion, your purpose andall of that.
Yeah, if you're not smiling, Idon't know.
It's great.
It's like I want everybody tobe a part of this conversation,
but thank you so much forsharing that.
And I'll tell you as a child, Iwent to a Catholic school and
(07:41):
whenever we heard sirens, wewould stop and we were taught to
pray for whoever was in theaccident, to pray for the first
responders.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, and to pray for the families involved.
So that was from a little girl.
That was what we were taughtnot knowing what actually you
all see and things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, thank you for doing that, because I was born
and raised Lutheran, I wasbaptized, I was confirmed.
I believe in prayer, I believeprayer is real and it works.
So thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So I have to ask you were talking about being a
police officer in the military.
How does that differ versusbeing, like, chief of police you
are now?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
A lot of people don't know.
I mean, there's still crimesthat occur on base, there's
people that aren't military thatcome and go from the base and
there's retail stores on thebase, there's restaurants,
there's car crashes, there'sdomestic abuse, there's all
kinds of stuff that goes on.
So I mean, that's how I got myfeet wet and got into law
(08:46):
enforcement and there are somedifferences with training and
stuff like that.
I mean, when I was in themilitary there were two types of
military police.
One was combat support, whichwe were all trained as soldiers
to be military police in case wehad to go to war.
And then there's somethingcalled garrison law enforcement,
which is kind of like what yousee in the civilian law
(09:08):
enforcement profession.
When you see the police car,the uniform, they're doing
traffic stops, they're catchingspeed or stuff like that.
And I was able to get involvedin the garrison side of law
enforcement right away becausewhen we would do gate duty, you
know, let cars in and out andcheck everybody's ID and
registration and stuff like that, I would go to one of the local
(09:32):
dollar stores and I would buythese little black and white
matchbox cars and if there was akid in a car I would hand them
out to the little kids because Iremember a police officer doing
that when I was in elementaryschool.
I thought it was the coolestthing in the world.
So I figure, what's a couplebucks?
You know, I can take 10 bucksto the dollar store, get 10
little matchbox police cars andhand them out to the kids.
(09:54):
So we had something called aprovost marshal, which is kind
of like the chief of police, andhe saw that I was doing that
and he pulled me off the gateduty and the combat support
duties and put me on the bikepatrol.
So I got to do law enforcementbike patrol.
I got to dress up as Darren thedare lion, mcgruff the crime
dog.
I mean, I loved it.
(10:15):
My experience in the army Iknew right then I wanted to be a
cop.
I'm like this is my dream cometrue.
I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
That's awesome.
I'm like you're like thefavorite uncle of police
officers.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And I have, you know, I have three nieces and they
actually bought me a t-shirtthat says Funkle, because I'm
the fun uncle and yeah, it'sgreat.
So that's funny.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
That's what I'm envisioning.
As you're talking, I was likethis is great, yeah, and that's
what.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I'm envisioning as you're talking.
I was like this is great.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
You really humanize being a police officer because
you, ultimately, you protect usand put your life on the line,
but you're still a person.
You're still a dad, you'restill the uncle, the funcle as
you call it.
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So you had your career in the military, and what
made you leave?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
the military.
Then, well, I was active dutyin the Army for five years and
then, you know, after my timewas up, I could have re-upped or
kind of re-enlisted or left,and at the time I was married
and I had one daughter and Ifigured we would just move back
home to Racine and start ourlife together.
And that's what we decided todo.
And after, figured we wouldjust move back home to Racine
and start our life together.
And that's what we decided todo.
And after about a year ofapplying at police departments,
(11:29):
I was hired by the Racine PoliceDepartment.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
What was it like for you and what was it like for
your family?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
It was great for me.
People always say don't putyour job first.
You know, family's moreimportant and it is.
It truly is.
But I was a cop 24 hours a day,365, you know a year, and you
know live, eat, breathe, lawenforcement.
And I started realizing when Iwas walking around the house
(11:57):
that I didn't see myself in anypictures and it wasn't because I
was the person taking picturesof my, you know, wife now
ex-wife but my wife and kidsit's because I was working so
much or I was sleeping, so Iwasn't involved.
And you know, also with Racine.
Racine's a bigger city, it'slocated between Chicago,
illinois, and Milwaukee,wisconsin, and I was a third
(12:21):
shift evidence technician.
So I would go to a lot of thehomicides, a lot of the
drive-bys, a lot of the gangcomplaints, fatal crashes, and I
started becoming callous tothese complaints shot and killed
.
And I walked in the door and Ilooked to the right.
I had all my gear with me.
I looked to the right and I sawa gentleman deceased.
(12:51):
He had been shot in the men'sbathroom while he was going out
the door and he was just layingthere deceased and I was
thinking, okay, I can get towork, it's just another body.
But it's not.
It's not to me, it's more thanthat and I also assisted in
processing the crime scene of atriple homicide.
Seven people were shot, threewere killed and it's my
(13:12):
understanding that it was onegang that shot each other over
money, old, in a dice game.
And I remember looking at an18-year-old that was shot and
killed and he was laying on theground in a parking lot and he
had his cell phone in one handand he had a loaded gun in the
other hand and he was layingthere flinching because he was
shot multiple times and 18 yearsold and that is still
(13:34):
somebody's son.
That is still a life that'sgone.
I mean, I get it and a lot ofpeople understand hey, if you're
gangbanging and you, it comesto the territory.
If you live that lifestyle, itmight catch up to you, but that
is still somebody's loved one,somebody's possibly a brother, a
son.
He could have been a father,but I started getting callous to
(13:56):
that.
So I started looking for jobsand that's when I moved up north
.
You know, kind of uprooted thefamily and moved up north and
tried to get back to basics as afamily, took another police job
, but then after about a yearthe marriage fell apart and then
we ended up getting a divorce,so it didn't work out so well.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
When you say you started to get callous to the
job.
What does that mean?
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Kind of numb, to everything around me, just doing
my job, kind of emotionless, ifthat's even a word.
You know, when I walked intothat bar and I put my gear down,
I looked to the right and I sawthat man, just deceased, laying
there with the door halfwaypropped open and I can still see
it now.
It was just kind of like allright, get to work, you know,
(14:45):
take some photographs and dothis, that and the other thing.
And it was catching up to meand I still did a good job, I
still loved the job I was doing.
But I was kind of likedesensitized to the stuff and I
didn't like that.
It wasn't really who I was, itwasn't how I was born and raised
, and my parents instilled goodmorals and work ethics in me and
(15:09):
to treat everybody equal, and Iwas just kind of like, yeah,
it's just another body.
I didn't like that feeling.
So then I just started lookingfor other jobs.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You know something you said earlier when you were
in the military and you walkedby and you saw your reflection
in the glass, you were like, yes, this is what I want to do.
I'm right where I want to be.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
But then you're walking through your house and
you look up at the photos on thewall and there's no reflection
of you because you are not inthose pictures.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Right, I wasn't present, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yes, what an awakening, what a realization.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
And it was when I worked for the city of Racine.
I was full time, obviously, butthen I even picked up a part
time police officer job on oneof the police departments that
was close to the city of Racinethat had lake patrol.
So you know, on my days off I'dbe out on the boat doing police
work and then I was alwaysworking.
And it's not what it's allabout.
I mean, if you don't put yourfamily first, you're going to
(16:12):
lose your family.
They say a lot of firstresponders, including police
officers, they get divorcedbecause, at least for me, I
worked all the time.
I was too into my job and Iwasn't into my family and that,
and they suffered.
I, I worked third shift and Iremember my ex-wife telling me
that she didn't like that.
It worked well for the kids, itworked well for her job, but
(16:35):
she didn't like the fact that Iwent to you know work at 11 PM,
you know, and she went to bed atnight so she'd be sleeping by
herself and it wasn't verycomfortable for her and really
didn't listen, really didn't paymuch attention.
I was just finally doing thejob I wanted and loved and it
was kind of just selfish and allabout me and ultimately, our
(16:55):
marriage ended in divorce.
So put your family first.
Put your wife, your girlfriend,your boyfriend, your spouse
first.
Those are going to be thepeople that support you when you
go through rough times.
You know, like I did, I wentthrough rough times and you know
your kids are going to supportyou in a way.
Your spouse is going to supportyou in a way.
It's important.
It's important to communicateand to let them know that you're
(17:18):
there and you support them,because they're going to support
you eventually.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You know, as numb as you had become to seeing dead
bodies, violence, things likethis.
As numb as you were, was therealmost an addiction to the
adrenaline that goes along withgoing on a police call.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Without a doubt, absolutely.
You know, especially thirdshift.
I love to work in third shiftbecause all the calls that we
got dispatched to were legit.
They weren't just, you know,trouble with kids or a fake
business alarm.
When you got dispatched youknow you were going to the real
deal.
So I mean it was an adrenalinerush and nothing else compares
to it.
I mean you could be going justputting around at 10 miles an
(18:05):
hour.
Then all of a sudden you'regoing 110 miles an hour.
You know it's great, it'sexciting, it's dangerous, but it
is, it's that adrenaline rush.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
When you have that adrenaline, does fear not exist.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I think you have a little bit of anxiety, but your
training kicks in.
You know, just like athletessports athletes they have a
little anxiety, but that helpsyou right, even like if you're
public speed, I think, at leastfor me.
I'm very focused on the task athand and what I know I have to
do, and that just takes over.
I mean, in Wisconsin, policeofficers and first responders
(18:38):
are very well trained and a lotof times I just did what I was
trained to do.
I guess you would sayinstinctively, because I didn't
realize I would, I would docertain things and then you
would check the body camera orthe squad car camera and it's
like, yeah, okay, yeah, I forgot, I did that, but I did it.
Fear I don't think I was afraid.
I just I knew it was time forme to do my job, to do real
(19:01):
police work, and people dependon the police to protect them,
to keep them safe, to help them,and I, at least.
For me, there's no time to takea step back and be afraid of
something, because I'm not goingto be able to help somebody if
I'm fearful of everything.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
When did you realize that your experiences you had as
a police officer, you were notprocessing them in healthy ways?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
On April 8th 2016,.
I was involved in a criticalincident at a police department
up north from the city of Racineand I used deadly force on
someone who armed themselveswith a hatchet inside our
Walmart store and initially thecall was non-emergent.
I was sitting at the policedepartment typing up a retail
theft report from another retailstore called Shopko it doesn't
(19:49):
exist anymore and I getdispatched to Walmart and it was
basically can you respond andassist a couple chaperones with
somebody who's refusing to leavethe store?
And it's not a big deal.
We do that a lot of times.
We do it at restaurants, atretail stores, at people's homes
, other businesses, so not a bigdeal not emergent.
So I acknowledged and I grabbedmy laptop, walked out of the
(20:11):
back of the police departmentand jumped in my ER car, my
squad car, and just starteddriving to Walmart.
I found out that initially thatone of the chaperones called
911 and ended up being a hangupcall and then dispatch called
her back and then kept her onthe line the whole time and kind
of gave me the play by play asto what was going on inside
Walmart.
Her name was Melissa, she was apatient at a state mental
(20:36):
health facility and she was outon a good behavior pass, it's my
understanding and they had goneto a restaurant.
And then they went across thestreet to Walmart and the
chaperone said it's time toleave and she didn't want to
leave.
So she walked back to thesupporting goods section and
ripped open a hatchet from thepackaging.
They called 911 and I wasresponding and initially
(20:58):
dispatch advised me that she wastrying to remove a knife from
the package and not that a knifewould have been any less
threatening, but that's what Ithought it was, you know, the
typical pocket knife that a lotof people carry.
And so when I heard that, Iturned down my lights and sirens
and I started stepping it up,traveling at a higher rate of
speed.
Now, walmart was, you know,maybe a mile and a half away
(21:20):
from the police department.
So I got there fairly quicklyand initially I was going to
respond through the auto center.
Walmart is usually set up thesame you have the auto center,
you have the sporting goodssection and I knew she was back
in sporting goods.
So I wanted to respond throughthe auto center and hopefully
keep her contained back there,so she didn't walk to the front
of the store.
Now, this was on a Friday at5.15 PM, super busy in the store
(21:45):
, hundreds of people in thestore.
But then dispatch advised meshe's threatening customers,
she's walking towards the frontof the store.
So my whole plan of respondingchanged right there.
So what I did is I entered theparking lot.
And I still remember all thesepeople in the parking lot.
They wouldn't get out of theway.
They were looking at my policecar kind of like hey, what's
going on?
And I'm thinking, will youplease move?
(22:05):
There's a true emergency inthere where you get out of the
way.
And finally I was able to parkin front of the general
merchandise entrance and what Idid was I parked my squad car
and I turned my sirens off but Ileft the lights going because I
was hoping that if anybody elsewould be responding to Walmart
and they would see my squad carin front of that door, they
(22:25):
would think twice about goingthrough that door.
So I parked, I exited my squadcar and drew my weapon right
away because I didn't know whereshe was.
I knew she was walking towardsthe front of the store and there
was a man and a woman there andI said where is she?
And they kind of pointed downtowards the lawn and garden, the
health and beauty aisle, whichis a main aisle, and I ran down
(22:46):
there and I made contact withher and her back was facing me
and it looked like she washacking up something on a pallet
.
And you know, I identifiedmyself.
She turned and faced me andthat's when I realized that's
not a knife, that's a hatchet.
Face me and that's when Irealized that's not a knife,
that's a hatchet.
So I gave her multiple verbalcommands to stop, to drop the
hatchet.
She wouldn't listen to me, shekept advancing towards me and
(23:07):
then I made the decision toshoot her and I shot twice.
One round went in and out ofone of her legs and the second
round struck her kind of centermass in the sternum and she fell
to the ground and she did endup dying hours later after
surgery.
But I know that when I pulledthe trigger, that changed
everything.
I changed lives.
(23:28):
I took her life, I changed mylives, those who witnessed the
shooting because there was abouta dozen people there that
watched everything happen, andeven people on the other side of
the store that may have heardthe gunshots and think, oh my
gosh, what happened.
So everybody was affected oneway or another.
And I remember after shooting Ilooked around at the customers
(23:50):
that were there and I saidplease check yourself and please
check each other, because Iwanted to make sure my two shots
only hit her and nobody else.
So while they were doing that,I also looked at a Walmart
employee and I said please geton the intercom and please ask
if there's a nurse or a doctorto please come over here and
help until the ambulance gethere.
(24:11):
And there was actually a nursein the light bulb aisle and she
goes.
I'm a nurse, so she came overand helped until the ambulance
showed up and that nurse evenwrote a statement and she said
she was in the light bulb aisleby herself and when I was
yelling very loudly drop it,drop it she dropped the light
bulb, thinking I was yelling ather, even though she couldn't
see what was going on.
(24:31):
So everything seemed surreal.
I knew what I had done.
I don't have any doubt in mymind that I did the right thing
because I had been a policeofficer I want to say gosh, 15
years, 14 years.
At the time.
I had a lot of training andexperience.
I was a firearms instructor.
If I could have used my pepperspray, I would have my taser, I
(24:53):
would have my baton I would have, but she could have killed me
or she could have killedsomebody else or caused great
bodily harm.
So I made the decision to shootand I'm okay with that.
So after everything was said anddone, at Walmart, my corporal,
who was my training officer whenI first started at that police
department, kind of brought meout of the store and into his
(25:15):
squad car and almost immediatelythe media was there and we
drove to the police departmentand kind of had a briefing and
figured out what we were goingto do.
And once everything was saidand done, I got to go home and I
had a take-home squad car.
So they had taken my gun, I wasstill in uniform and I hopped
in my squad car and the firstthing I did was I reached up
(25:36):
into my visor because my cellphone was there and I wanted to
call my mom and dad because theylived three and a half four
hours away and I wanted them tohear it from me what happened,
and not from the news, becauseit was all over the place.
It was even in Minnesota.
It was in other states that theshooting had happened.
So that's the first thing thatcrossed my mind I need to call
(25:58):
my mom and dad, let them know.
And I remember calling them andI said I've been involved in a
shooting, I'm okay.
And then I drove home and lateron I talked to my mom and she
goes I didn't recognize yourvoice.
I could tell you were in shock.
You said you were okay, but Icould tell you weren't.
(26:18):
So I had driven home that nightand the first thing I did was
walk into my house.
Nobody was there.
I was divorced at the time andmy daughters were with my
ex-wife.
And the first thing I did waswalk in the house and I knelt
down next to my love seat and Iprayed to God that Melissa
wouldn't die.
I didn't want her to die Quite.
Honestly, I didn't think shewas going to die.
She was laying on the groundand talking to paramedics and I
(26:41):
didn't think she was going todie.
So then I went into my bedroom,took all my gear off and I
remember sitting at the foot ofmy bed and I just felt so heavy
and I don't know why.
Even with all my gear off, Ifelt so heavy.
And once I was ready, I ordereda pizza, I turned on the news
to kind of see what they weresaying about me, even though
(27:02):
everybody told me don't do that.
I'm like I'm going to turn onthe news anyways.
And then I went to bed.
I slept well, I think maybebecause of the adrenaline dump,
but then I woke up in themorning.
This was Saturday.
I had the weekend off becausethe investigation the part that
I would participate in theinvestigation wouldn't start
till Monday.
(27:23):
And I thought to myself I needto do something normal today, if
that's even possible after youshoot somebody.
And I was going to go get myhaircut and pick up my kids.
And I'm walking out to my carand my chief called me and it
was a typical hey, how are youdoing?
I'm doing good, when can youcome in and talk to me?
And I I said, well, I'm goingto go get my haircut first and
then pick up my kids, and then Ican, I can come talk to you.
(27:43):
And he said, adam, you know, II didn't want to tell you this
over the phone, but she died andthat changed everything.
And I respect the chief fortelling me over the phone
because, just like me wanting totell my parents what happened.
He wanted me to find out rightaway too, and not from the news
(28:04):
or social media or a textmessage.
But I remember getting off thatphone call and sitting in my SUV
and thinking this changeseverything.
I killed somebody.
What's going to happen now?
It's not just a shooting.
I mean, I took somebody's lifeand so I remember going and
getting my haircut.
Barely the whole weekend was ablur.
(28:26):
I remember going and speakingto my chief and he told me right
away that he's going to releasemy police photograph.
So he did that, that, and thenI just I I guess I just went
home for the weekend untilmonday happened yeah, you know,
when you said that she had beenspeaking to the paramedics yeah,
yeah and then you said that shehad passed away.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Like I felt a shock yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I'm getting chills right now because every time I
listen to that 911 call and Ihear me yelling 276 county shots
fired, law enforcement shotsfired, send EMS.
I remember being there.
That changed everything Right.
Then my life forever changed,and not only my life but her
life and her mom and dad's life.
(29:13):
And then we find out that shehad a six-year-old daughter also
, and at the time my daughterswere younger.
So I get it.
It's not something I'm proud of.
I didn't wake up that morningthinking I hope I go to work and
shoot somebody.
It's, you know, in lawenforcement the possibility is
there, but the probability, yeah, probably not.
(29:35):
But that was my, my reality.
I mean, I actually shot andkilled somebody and I'm thinking
what's going to happen next?
You know, I all that unknown,you know.
I remember Monday morning whenI'm driving to the sheriff's
department to be interviewed bydifferent investigators.
I remember driving there andbeing really worried because I'm
thinking what if the video andthe 911 call that we go over?
(29:58):
I mean, what if it's not how Iremember it, because there's a
lot of stuff I remember and alot of stuff I don't remember.
And once we sat down andstarted listening to the 911
call and watching differentvideos.
It was exactly how I remember.
But even watching the videosyou know Walmart has a lot of
cameras and I remember seeingmyself and thinking I don't
remember doing that, but that'sme doing what I was trained to
(30:20):
do.
And that's why training is soimportant, especially in law
enforcement and first responders, because we work crazy hours.
You know, we got to jugglearound our schedule, our
spouse's schedule, our kid'sschedule and for me, for example
, you know I would work thirdshift and then, after working 11
pm to 7 am, I might have to goto in-service from 8 am to 4 pm
(30:42):
and it's like, come on, you knowI'm sucking down energy drinks
or coffee and I'm barely stayingawake.
I don't want to do this.
I got to change the kid'sschedules around at daycare.
But it's so important to go totraining because I'm a prime
example.
I watched myself on video dowhat I was trained to do, but
some of it I don't remember.
But I'm like that's me, becausethat's what my training taught
(31:03):
me.
So that's why it's so important.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Those that witnessed the incident.
I have to imagine there werewitness statements taken.
What did they say?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I believe there was 12 witnesses and they all pretty
much wrote the same thing.
They wrote that I arrived,identified myself and that she
had a hatchet.
And then I don't remember this,but most of them said this in
their statement that she wasadvancing towards me and the
last thing she did was raise thehatchet above her head, and
(31:34):
that's when I shot.
I don't remember that.
The last thing I remember isher making kind of a figure
eight swooping motion and then Ishot.
But that that's not whateverybody else said and I I'm
not a psychologist, I don't geteverything about the brain.
But people tell me that's thepart of my brain that's
protecting me from that visualtrauma, which is great.
(31:58):
You know I've never hadnightmares about that either.
So the brain's wonderful, atleast it's wonderful for me in
this event.
But you know they all wrote thesame thing of what they
witnessed.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Was this the first officer involved shooting for
you?
It was.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
It was the very first officer involved shooting for
me, the very first officerinvolved shooting for you.
It was.
It was the very first officerinvolved shooting for me, the
very first officer involvedshooting for the police
department.
You know, at the time I hadnever and I still have never
used my pepper spray on anybody.
I've never used my baton onanybody.
I've used my tasers a handfulof times, but over the years in
my law enforcement career, Ialways prided myself in being
(32:35):
able to talk people down and notuse force.
So that's something that Istruggled with for many years
after that.
I wasn't good enough that I.
You are good enough because youwere able to make that decision
, and this was a totallydifferent incident than anything
(33:00):
that you've ever experienced inyour life.
It's been nine years since myshooting and I know that I did
the right thing.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Was it this incident, then?
That was the straw that brokethe camel's back, if you will,
which led you down the dark pathof making bad decisions.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Absolutely it was.
I was off duty for about 30days, for about a month, which
is typical, which is protocol.
While you're investigating,then you have to be cleared by
the district attorney's office.
And they cleared me.
They said my shooting wasjustified and then I went back
to work and I had no doubt in mymind I was going to go back to
work, I wanted to go back towork and maybe I went back to
(33:40):
work a little bit too soon.
I mean, looking back now youcan always look back and woulda,
coulda, shoulda, but at thetime I felt like I was going
back to work at the right time.
But I did.
I started suffering in silence,I started poorly coping and what
I mean by that is I would abusealcohol.
You know, before my shooting Icollected wine and I would have
(34:00):
glasses of wine.
But you know, after my shootingI went through those wine
bottles really quick and then Iwent right to liquor and I went
to vodka.
I regularly drank a 750milliliter bottle of vodka in 30
minutes or less, blacked out,and slept a day away.
Bottle of vodka in 30 minutesor less, blacked out, and slept
a day away.
Before I would go somewheregrocery shopping an event,
always off duty I never drank onduty but I would stop by the
(34:23):
local gas station and I wouldbuy two or three of those
cinnamon whiskey shot bottlesand I would drink two or three
of them right in my car, in theparking lot, and then I would
either throw them in the back ofmy car or I would throw them
out the window while I wasdriving to my destination.
You know wherever I was headingto, and I would say to myself
you know, it would probably takeabout 30 minutes for alcohol to
(34:45):
kick in, and then I would bewherever I needed to be.
And that's not true.
And down the road, there was atime that I even I think I drove
(35:16):
about 40 miles, intoxicated,with my youngest daughter.
I was picking her up at hermom's my ex-wife's house for
gymnastics.
After I had picked her up, wewere going down the freeway and
it was just a simple turn rightto go towards gymnastics or turn
left.
Well, I turned left and I drove, I think, about 20 miles out of
the way and I was intoxicatedand I'm ashamed of that because
that was my daughter.
But the behavior it was justvery self-destructive.
And another way that I poorlycoped is casual sex.
I would meet women onlinemutually to have sex and
sometimes within 30 minutes orless we'd be having sex.
And for me, sex is fun, it'splayful, it's exciting, it's
(35:38):
something you share withsomebody.
That's important.
But I guess I was just chasingthat dopamine high or whatever.
But I remember one time layingin bed with a woman after we had
sex and I thought you got tostop this, adam.
I started not liking myself, butthat still wasn't enough for me
to stop and I would alwaysworry what if I get her pregnant
(35:58):
, what if I catch an STD?
But even that wasn't enough forme to stop.
It took years for me to slowthat down and stop.
And you know, there was even,you know, a couple of times that
I tried marijuana for the firsttime.
I smoked marijuana and triedsome marijuana gummies and a lot
of people are like, oh, it'sodd, no big deal, and I'm like
but to me it is.
It's a big deal.
I always prided myself in neverdoing drugs, not even marijuana
(36:22):
, all my life.
So I continued this behavior foryears and I suffered in silence
and I find it hard to believethat nobody realized that this
was going on.
I can't speak for anybody,obviously, but I think they
probably knew.
They just didn't know what tosay or do, so they chose not to
do anything and not to getinvolved.
Self-harm was another thing.
(36:44):
One time I took a 12-inchcrescent wrench and I banged my
knee several times, enough tocause redness, abrasions,
bruising, and then I went to theemergency room and I lied to
them and I said I fell down theback steps, hit my knee on a
manhole cover that covered theseptic tank and they did x-rays
(37:04):
and they gave me pain meds and adoctor's excuse and crutches
and this was all to get out ofwork for the Fourth of July.
And my chief at the timesupported me a hundred percent
and I feel I feel real guiltyfor lying to him.
But I I think because of thestigma, I just felt like I was
running out of excuses to not goto work.
(37:25):
If I truly believe, if I wouldhave went in and said, chief,
something's not right.
I don't know why, but I justcan't work, I'm feeling
triggered I'm sure he would havesaid it's okay, it's okay Adam,
because he did it every othertime.
But I felt like I was runningout of excuses, so my behavior
was just self-destructive.
It was harmful.
I was pushing people away and Ijust didn't care.
(37:48):
I was looking for the next wayto cope, to make myself feel
good, to numb the pain.
Nothing else mattered to me.
It's sad, but it was my realityfor many years.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
As you're running out of excuses what are you running
from?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
What are you deeply running from?
That's a good question, becauseI'm not 100% sure.
I think maybe not being goodenough, killing somebody, taking
somebody's mother from them,daughter from them, grandchild
from them, taking somebody'slife I know I did my job and I
know I did the right thing, butit still doesn't make it easier.
I mean I took somebody awayfrom people that loved her.
(38:33):
I mean she was struggling withmental health too, but that
doesn't make it easy to do.
It's not a normal thing to goand shoot and kill somebody and
I think deep down I was justreally struggling with that,
even though I knew I did theright thing.
I was just struggling with that.
It's something that I thinkabout every single day one way
or another.
I'm healthier now and doingmuch better now, positively
(38:57):
coping in ways, but still it'ssomething that lives with me
forever.
Some days I kind of get bummedout too, and some days, oh,
today sucks or whatever.
But I recognize it now, Iunderstand it.
But I think that's what I wasrunning from.
Maybe I was just running fromall the feelings, all the
emotions involved in it, andthat's why I used alcohol,
(39:19):
casual sex and marijuana to tonumb that and it only made
things worse.
You know, momentarily it madethings better, but it didn't fix
anything.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Did you want to die?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Um, that's a real good question.
I I did no-transcript, but atthe time I don't think I wanted
(40:05):
to die.
I never thought you know what Iwant to kill myself.
Today's it.
But as I go back and you know,through therapy now because I do
see a therapist and I do takemedicine and it helps me and I
learn a lot about my behaviorand there's no other way to
explain it that some wayinternally I wanted to.
You know, god and I had somepretty.
(40:26):
I was pretty pissed off at God.
We had some pretty heatedconversations.
I prayed many times that Iwouldn't wake up in the morning.
You know, dear God, please letme not wake up.
But he made me wake up everysingle day because he had other
plans, kind of like tough,you're going to go through this
because I got something else foryou, if you like it or not, too
(40:47):
bad, which I'm grateful for.
So, yeah, I do.
I think I did want to die.
I just I never really had aplan and every time I thought
about it I also thought aboutthe people that loved me and the
people who depended on me andneeded me.
So I think that got in the wayof it.
I truly believe that if Ididn't have my daughters, I
(41:09):
wouldn't be here speaking withyou, john, I'd dead, because
ultimately my girls need me morethan anything.
I mean my mom and dad andsister too.
But I think my daughters reallyplayed a big role, probably
bigger than they even realized.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know it's interesting, because one thing I
hear as I talk to you is yourempathy toward Melissa, toward
her family, towards thewitnesses in Walmart, towards
everyone, and it's as though youwere able to give empathy
(41:45):
towards others, includingstrangers, but you weren't able
to find that empathy foryourself and you suffered in
silence and you suffered insilence.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, I'm religious, Ibelieve in God and I truly
believe that when I die I'mgoing to heaven and then I'll
meet Melissa and she won't bestruggling with mental health,
everything will be better and Ihope she welcomes me with open
arms and says thank you andeverything's okay.
Someday I would really like tomeet Melissa's mom and dad,
(42:15):
melissa's daughter, melissa'sfamily.
That's a part of me that Istruggle with too, because I'm
not a monster.
I didn't go to work wanting tokill somebody and I think that
would go a long way with healing, not only for me but for them.
But if I ever decide to reachout the ball's in their court
because maybe they don't want tohave anything to do with me or
(42:36):
meeting me, I do rememberlooking on Facebook, at
Melissa's mom's Facebook account, and it seemed like they were
struggling with finding themoney to even bury her, her, and
(42:58):
that's something that reallyhurt.
Also because I can't.
I can't imagine being at homeand getting a phone call and
finding out that your daughterdied.
I can't imagine getting a callfinding out that the police
killed your daughter.
I just yeah, I have a lot ofquestions.
Probably most won't be answered, but eventually I think they
will be.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, were you told not to reach out to the family,
or?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
terminated from that police department.
What happened was December 28th2021, I went to a active
shooter training at anelementary school and I was
seated comfortably, like I amnow, and we were watching a
PowerPoint presentation aboutdifferent active shooters in the
United States over the yearsand overseas.
And I started getting reallyhot and uncomfortable and a knot
in my stomach.
And about a minute passed and Ireached out to my forehead and
(43:57):
I was just drenched in water.
I was sweating, I was having apanic attack and there's
probably about 20 or 30 otherpolice officers there and they
all knew me.
They knew I was involved in theshooting, they knew where I
worked.
But my first thought was I haveto fight this and I have to
hide it.
I can't let anybody know thatI'm having a panic attack.
(44:18):
But it would have been okay Ithink it would have been okay if
I would have said I'mstruggling, I can't do this
training, I need to go home.
They probably would have saidit's all right, adam, we get it.
But my first thought I thinkbecause of that stigma is I got
to fight this and I got to hideit.
And I did.
I went through the training,went on a couple of days off
(44:39):
after the training and then Iwent to work a patrol shift on
New Year's Eve and I was adetective at the time.
I was promoted to the veryfirst detective on the police
department a year after myshooting.
So I was in uniform and Istarted my shift on New Year's
Eve.
The same time I started myshift on my shooting, I sat down
in my ER car or my police carand I started getting things set
up and I was like you know whatI'm done, I quit, I ain't doing
(45:00):
this no more.
And I don't think I wanted toquit being a cop.
I think I wanted to quit copingthe way I had been over the
years because it wasn't workingfor me anymore.
And I recognize that I just wasdone.
I'm done, I'm not doing this nomore.
And I reached out to a sergeantthat I knew and I said I need
you to come with me to thechief's office.
I'm quitting, I ain't doingthis.
(45:20):
He's hold up a second, you'renot going to quit, I'll meet
with you.
And we went and talked to thechief and this was a different
chief.
It wasn't the same chief thatwas with me during my shooting
because he had retired after 30plus years.
So the new chief and thesergeant, they were supportive.
They were like go home, take asmuch time as you need, let me
(45:43):
know when you're ready to comeback to work.
And I think it was about twoweeks.
I reached out to the chief and Isaid I'm ready to come back to
work and he said well, the onlyway that you can do that is you
need to take a psychologicalevaluation, a fitness for duty
test.
And I was like all right, yeah,I'm a strong mental health
advocate.
I had been speaking about mymental health since 2019.
This was now, you know, 2022.
(46:04):
So I had I set up thatappointment and I remember the
day of the appointment, drivingthere, and I thought to myself
I'm going to lie, I'm going totry to beat this test, I don't
need to take any kind offreaking test, I'm fine, I don't
need to do this.
And then I got there and I'm inthe waiting room and I thought
the only way you're going to getbetter at them is if you be
honest.
You have to be honest witheverything.
(46:26):
And I chose to be honest andthe tests were from 9 am to 4 pm
.
There was no lunch, no breakall these different tests.
And after that test, I wasdiagnosed with major depressive
disorder, ptsd, acute stresswith dissociative features, and
I was unfit for duty and Icouldn't go back to work.
(46:46):
So I requested a 90-day leaveof absence and I began getting
better.
I mean, it was like a nine-pageunfit-for-duty explanation and
I was reading it and I wascrying because that explained
everything about me over theyears.
Those are the answers I needed.
I'm like all right, how do Igot to get better?
(47:07):
What do I got to do now?
And I was going to therapy two,three times a week.
I wasn't missing anyappointments.
You know this was in January,february, march and April of
2022.
And in April 2022, I was put ona safety plan because there
were some suicidal ideations inthis unfit for duty examination,
the psychological evaluation.
(47:30):
And you know, it's differentwhen it happens to you, because
I was always there for otherpeople who were in crisis, and
this was me.
It's different now and and Iwas okay with it, but it's just
different when you're goingthrough it.
And so then, also that samemonth, one of the sergeants came
out to my house.
(47:50):
I didn't live in the community,I lived outside in a different
city and he came out to my house.
I didn't live in the community,I lived outside in a different
city, and he came out to myhouse and gave me a cease and
desist order to immediatelycease and desist, speaking about
my personal mental health whenit comes to my shooting, and
said it makes the policedepartment look bad and if you
don't stop talking about it,you're going to be disciplined
(48:12):
or terminated.
And that scared the hell out ofme.
I'm thinking I've been doingthis since 2019.
And now you're telling me toshut up about it.
So I did, I stopped, I shutdown my website, I stopped
speaking and then my 90-dayleave of absence expired and my
chief called me in and we had ameeting and he told me we're not
(48:34):
extending your absence.
You can either resign or you'regoing to be terminated.
So I thought it over and I chosenot to resign.
I was thinking you know, I'vebeen here for 14 years.
I have never been disciplined.
I had never been suspended.
I received medals, awards,citations I mean all this good
(48:55):
stuff.
The first detective, the firstshooting in the history of the
police department.
I was cleared from the shooting.
The lawsuit against me was evendropped.
Everything was.
I just couldn't believe it and Ichose not to resign.
So I was terminated and Iremember being walked out of the
police department thinking whatam I going to do now?
My lifelong dream to be anERCAR man, a police officer, is
(49:20):
over, because I did my job and Isuffered with mental health and
I truly feel like they justwashed their hands of me, like
Adam's not our problem anymoreand that was it.
So yeah, I mean, I mean I justI couldn't believe it.
And then, on top of that,nobody at the police department
reached out, texted me, calledme, emailed me nothing.
(49:43):
I was completely ghosted byeverybody and it's been almost
three years now and still nobodycommunicates with me.
And that hurts, because thesemen and women were on life and
death calls together and theyknew me, they knew my kids, they
knew my family to help me moveand when I really needed support
they weren't there for me andthat still hurts.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
I can't imagine.
But what I will say is that weare going to let you get your
story out there again today.
Yeah, speak loud.
All right, I got your back.
I have a question.
In 2019, that's when you beganto start speaking of mental
health issues At that point,were you still drinking heavily,
having casual sex, things ofthat nature?
(50:29):
So while you were speakingabout mental health, you still
were.
Maybe it was camouflaging.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Oh yeah, I was what's the word that best describes
that?
A hypocrite.
I mean, I was kind of actinglike things were better and they
weren't, but I was still tryingto get my story out there to
help others.
But I was still struggling.
You know, after becoming adetective, I was the only
detective, so I continued to goto homicides, suicides, fatal
(50:56):
crashes and other criticalincidents.
So on top of my trauma from myshooting, I was having all this
cumulative trauma stacking ontop of it too.
And I was still able to do myjob, get awards, do a good job.
But I was on my days off.
I was poorly coping for years.
My pastor at the time he'spassed away, but he reached out
(51:19):
in support of me and I told himto F off publicly on Facebook
and I don't remember doing that.
But I remember the next dayreading my messages and I'm like
, oh my God, I I told my pastorto, you know, to F off.
And you know there were policeofficers that were reading this
(51:41):
and I remember going back towork and they had mentioned
something to me.
But I really think it was hey,if Adam needs help, he's going
to reach out.
Otherwise everything's kind ofstatus quo, keep doing your
thing.
And and I wasn't going to reachout, I wasn't going to ask for
help.
I thought I could handle itmyself.
I figure you know, if I justkeep going, things will fall
(52:01):
into place, things will work out.
But that's not true.
I needed help and I wasn'tgoing to ask for it.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
That's common, sadly, you know.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Yeah, more common than people realize.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
yeah, the psychological test yielded what
you call the book of answers.
Do you still have that book?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
I do.
Yep, it described likeself-isolating may have
difficulty with relationships.
It described likeself-isolating may have
difficulty with relationships.
I mean it just kind of yeah, itwas full of real good stuff.
Like I said, I cried when Iread it.
I wasn't super happy about it.
I mean, I was happy in a sensethat it explained, it described
(52:49):
me and it helped me understandmore.
But reading that was kind of agut check, kind of a hey Adam,
this is you, now this is youropportunity to get better.
And by doing this you'reputting yourself first and now
it's time.
So it wasn't easy to do, but itwas important to do.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
Out of curiosity, have you brought that book back
out and looked at it and checkoff?
Oh, I am better here.
I'm better here, I'm betterhere.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
I actually have it right here.
I am better.
And after I was terminated Iwent home that afternoon.
I didn't know what I was goingto do.
Unfortunately, my insurancedidn't provide any kind of
financial support.
I didn't get workers'compensation, I didn't get
short-term disability.
Last year I had to file frombankruptcy because I couldn't
(53:38):
catch up with my finances.
But I remember communicatingwith my sister.
Her name's Amy.
She's a year and a half youngerthan me and she's like what are
you going to do?
And I'm like I don't know, amy,I have no idea.
And she goes why don't you movedown here?
And I told her, I said I hardlyhave any money, I can't do that
.
And she goes Adam, all you haveto do is get down here and
(53:58):
we'll take care of the rest.
So I did that.
I moved down there and movedinto my sister's basement.
We joked that, hey, at least itain't mom and dad's basement.
And I wasn't seeing a therapistat the time.
I had weaned off my medicationand I knew I wasn't doing.
Okay.
My sister was on the outsidelooking in, looking at her big
(54:20):
brother and knowing that Ineeded therapy, knowing that I
needed to get back into therapyand medicine, and so, behind my
back, she was looking for atherapist for me.
And no hard feelings, I'mcompletely blessed.
I love the heck out of her.
She found a therapist and thetherapist that I see today.
I finally put myself first andgot healthy.
And it's difficult for firstresponders police officers
(54:42):
because we always put everybodyelse first, we don't take care
of ourselves.
And I finally did that.
And then after a year about Isaid you know what?
I still want to be a cop.
Once I got healthier I knew Istill wanted to be an ERCAR man,
I wanted to be a police officerand so I started applying.
I started applying at otherpolice departments and I sent
(55:04):
applications out to 50 policedepartments.
And the next day after mailingthose applications out, I
started getting emails and phonecalls.
People wanted to interview meand I'm like wow, because I have
a lot of training andexperience.
I have a lot of experience thatmost officers don't have,
especially when it comes to myshooting and mental health.
So in a two-week period, threepolice departments in three
(55:28):
separate counties offered meconditional offers of employment
and I picked, picked one, andthat's why I work now.
Shortly after I was hired, I waspromoted to captain and my
chief now, sean McGee, is great.
He absolutely supports me.
We have a lake patrol at thepolice department.
We were out on our boat andhe's like you know what, adam?
(55:48):
I know that you speak publiclyabout mental health.
I support you.
If you want to keep doing that,I support you.
You can even wear your policeuniform if you want to do it.
And I'm thinking, wow, okay.
And we also have a therapy dognamed Howie, so I love him.
He's great.
So it's just a blessing indisguise.
And why has this all happened?
Because I finally put myselffirst, got the right kind of
(56:11):
help, got healthy, and now I'mback on the job and I truly
believe this journey is.
This is what God wants me to do.
I absolutely have no doubt inmy mind.
I went through hell.
He wanted me to go through allthat, to be here talking to you,
jen, to sharing my story, toyeah, I mean I'm a better cop
now.
I'm a better father, a betterperson, healthier, better it's.
(56:34):
Yeah, I mean I still have mydays, but I'm doing good.
I want people to know that it'sokay to talk about your mental
health and that they're notalone and they don't have to
suffer in silence.
There's so many resources outthere.
There's so many people outthere even complete strangers
that want to help, and not justbecause they're getting paid,
but because they're good people,they genuinely care and they
(56:57):
want to help.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Can you tell our audience how to find you?
You?
Speaker 2 (57:01):
can visit me at StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg.
My email address is there, adam, at
StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg,and you can also find my phone
number there.
You can call me, you can textme.
I look forward to hearing fromanybody.
If they need something, pleasereach out.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
Adam, thank you so much for finally putting
yourself first.
I think that is the perfectmessage to end our conversation
on today.
Thank you for being my guest onthe I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Thank you, jen, it's been my pleasure.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Thank you.
Thank you for listening.
This is Jen Lee with the I NeedBlue podcast.
Remember you are stronger thanyou think.
Until next time you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.