January 29, 2024 • 45 mins
In the company of Josh, we venture beneath the surface, immersing ourselves in the chilling realities of drug experimentation, particularly with Percocet and Fentanyl. Through his firsthand testimony, we are starkly reminded of the ominous abysses that addiction can lead us into, highlighting the desperate need for thorough drug education. Yet, amid the heart-wrenching tales of struggle, a glimmer of optimism emerges—the profound strength found in community. Together, we're a united front, standing side by side in the battle against addiction.
Thank you, The Blue Plaid Society for sponsoring this episode. To learn more: https://blueplaid.org/
Connect with Jen:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ineedbluepodcast/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/needbluepodcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1q8SfA_hEXRJ4EaizlW8Q
Website: https://ineedblue.net/
The background music is written, performed and produced exclusively by Char Good.
https://chargood.com/home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Welcome to the I Need Bluepodcast.
This is Shar Good and I amhonored to introduce Jennifer
(00:23):
Lee, author, life coach and hostof today's show on the I Need
Blue podcast.
Thank you for that warmintroduction, shar, and welcome
(00:46):
to I Need Blue, the podcastabout to take you on an
extraordinary journey whereprofound narratives come to life
, one captivating episode at atime.
I'm your host, jennifer Lee,and I founded this podcast
because I know there is healingand sharing.
Each story you will hear sharedon this podcast is a testament
(01:09):
to our collective strength,innate ability to transform in
the incredible power of healing.
Please remember you are neveralone.
Please visit and share mywebsite with those seeking
connection and inspirationwwwineedbluenet.
(01:30):
Thank you, shar Good, forcomposing and performing the
introduction medley for I NeedBlue.
You can find information aboutShar on her website,
wwwshargoodcom.
Before starting today's episode,I must provide a trigger
warning.
I need Blue features graphicthemes, including, but not
(01:51):
limited to, violence, abuse andmurder, and may not be suitable
for all listeners.
Please take care of yourselfand don't hesitate to ask for
help if you need it.
Before we start today's story,I would like to thank the Blue
Plaid Society for sponsoringthis episode.
(02:12):
I sat mesmerized and overcomewith emotions as I watched Josh
share his story at the CentralFlorida Fentanyl Summit in
August of 2023.
The Blue Plaid Society hoststhis community event.
(02:35):
I understood the courage tostand before a crowd and share
our life experiences.
Josh did it with conviction,leaving the attendees with a ray
of hope.
The room erupted with applausewhen he was finished.
His story begins during his highschool years.
(02:57):
He suffered the unexpected lossof his brother and grandparents
only months apart.
The emotional pain wasoverwhelming and distracting.
He felt defeated by life.
He didn't live.
He only existed during thesetimes.
Then something happened in hisjunior year of high school
(03:22):
opioids.
They dulled the emotional painof loss but ultimately created a
new type of pain.
Josh is sober today and has amessage of hope, love and
purpose.
Josh, thank you for being myspecial guest and welcome to the
(03:44):
I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Absolutely.
I'm so glad you accepted myinvitation.
I'm rather honored that you arehere with me today.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, I am very honored to be here.
We've talked many times beforeand it's amazing what you do and
the platform that you have andjust to get the story of hope
and recovery out there to peoplethat need to hear it.
I'm very, very honored to behere.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Thank you so much.
I have to tell you my podcastwould not exist if it wasn't for
survivors like you wanting tocome forward and share their
story Honestly.
It lives because of people likeyou.
I know your story is going tobe an inspiration to others.
(04:36):
Those listening, like us in theaudience that day at the summit
, will feel that ray of hope.
It might just be that littlemessage they needed to hear that
will make a difference in theirlife.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, we never know who we're going to touch with
our story.
That's why we come forward andwe share right?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes, it literally just takes one, maybe even a
glance at someone, just a hellohey, how are you doing?
And that literally sparks theirroad to recovery.
It sparks that change ofmindset to get to the point to
where they don't feel hopelessanymore.
They do feel like someone'sthere for them, they do feel
(05:18):
like someone cares and that,right, there is that moment to
where everything kind of juststarts to change and that 180
starts and they can start downthat road of recovery.
And it's a long road, it's alifelong road.
We all continue to recover fromthe things that we've been
through.
I hope that everything thatI've done, the mistakes that
(05:40):
I've made, I hope that I canreach people out there and help
them to recover from the thingsthat they are going through
right now.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You said so many profound things and before we
start your story, you saidsomething about you are sober
today, and you and I talkedabout why you specifically say I
am sober today.
Can you share that with us realquick?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean there's a coupledifferent reasons for it, but
you know, when I look back on it, for example, I would go to an
NA meeting, or you know justdifferent things that I would
try to do as far as to, you know, stay on that road to recovery.
And you know I'd sit there inthe audience and people would
stand up and you know, hi, myname's So-and-so.
I've got 15 years of sobriety.
(06:31):
Or I've got five years ofsobriety, I've got 10 years of
sobriety.
I can think back to multipletimes where that wasn't really a
spark of light for me.
It was more of a oh my gosh, amI ever going to make it to that
point?
You know, that's one reason whyI don't ever give any type of
you know amount of time forsobriety.
I'm winning today and that'swhat I'm looking forward to.
(06:53):
I wake up in the morning andI'm going to win today, whatever
I got to do to get through it,and then when I lay down at
night, I've won again.
You know it's multipledifferent victories.
You've got to get over thosehurdles.
You've got to get over thosethings that trigger those
thoughts in your head of wantingto go back and slide back into
addiction.
If you just focus on right now,in this moment, in this day,
(07:16):
you have so many more victorieswithin a and stuff.
You only stand up for your year.
You know you stand up for Ihave one year, I have two years.
Where's all the littlevictories in there that you can
celebrate?
Every moment is a victory.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I love that, especially when you said I'm
going to win today.
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It really is.
It brings so much encouragement.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Absolutely.
Some people, I don't think,understand that you didn't wake
up one day and say I'm going tobecome an addict.
There's always a backstory,there's always a journey that
led them to where they are today.
And that's part of why I havemy podcast is because I'm really
(08:02):
interested in that journey thatyou went through, because
somebody listening may be inthat journey.
They may have a relative that'sin that journey.
They may have a friend that'sin that journey.
And when you come forward andshare, and you share your
experiences and the behaviorsand the emotions behind them,
(08:23):
you're helping others to copeand maybe be able to help their
friend and provide them hope aswell.
So I'm going to let you startthat.
We started the introduction inyour high school years.
If that's where you want tostart, that's great.
If you want to go back further,that's great too.
It's always at your comfortlevel.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Okay, the friends that I was running around with.
We really had experimented withmarijuana and alcohol
specifically.
Those were the only two things.
The key thing that I want totalk about before that night my
high school homecoming was thefact that I did lose people.
I lost my brother, which wasabsolutely my best friend.
(09:02):
He was like my road dog.
We literally spent every momentwe could together and then my
grandparents died 11 days apart,and that just put me in a
really, really bad spot.
I was getting through it.
I was trudging through it.
It was a slow and steady pace,but I was making it.
I was back to school andstarting to go through my normal
(09:25):
day-to-day stuff.
I went to homecoming.
I actually thought about notgoing to homecoming.
I was playing basketball and wehad a basketball game before the
dance and before everything.
I went to the game, but I justreally wasn't in the mood to
just go out to a dance or haveany fun, like things like that.
So I ended up going and thatnight we went to a little party
(09:48):
at my buddy's house after thedance.
That's when it happened.
That's when that moment came.
I literally can see exactly howit happened in my mind, moment
by moment, picture by picture.
He just walked in and he's likehey, I need to talk to you for
a minute.
And he offered Perkisette.
(10:10):
At the time it was fivemilligrams.
It wasn't anything strong, itwas for me then, but I tried it.
He kind of glamorized it as faras it's going to take away the
pain a little bit, it's going totake away the emotions, it's
going to have some fun.
So, yeah, I tried it and itdidn't really snowball super
(10:31):
fast, it progressed.
I took it that one night andthen it kind of started out as a
recreational thing, like whenwe was hanging out having fun,
stuff like that.
It definitely did take away theemotions.
It dulled them, it masked themas really what it did.
It didn't take it away, but itdid dull it.
(10:52):
It allowed me to, I guess, behappy again in that moment when
I should have been dealing withthose emotions the proper way,
because there are so manydifferent healthy ways to deal
with our emotions.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And did your friends take Perkisette as well?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah yeah, I didn't know it at the time.
So there was three or four guysthat I'd really really hung out
with.
We all have that core group offriends.
So there was three or four ofthem and two of them had already
experimented with it.
I just didn't know about ituntil that night.
So my buddy that offered it tome.
He hung around with a littlebit of an older crowd, so that's
(11:30):
where he ended up trying itfrom.
Both of us ended up gettingeverything from there's older
kids.
It slowly became a dailyaddiction.
I battled it for about 15 yearsBefore I knew it.
I blinked and 15 years had goneby and I was in active
addiction pretty much that wholetime.
(11:51):
This was when I really reallynoticed that I had an issue,
because I lived in a small townin Ohio at the time, right on
the border of Ohio and Kentucky,and the college that I went to
was about 50 miles away from myhometown.
So that was the first time thatI really ever lived that far
away.
Once I moved, got to college,you know I'd go home every
(12:14):
weekend and then I would makesure that I got what I thought
was enough to get me through theweek at college.
Well then, you know, monday,tuesday, tuesday night, coming
into Wednesday, I'm like, oh mygosh, I'm about to run out.
I found myself struggling andkind of trying to get back home,
go to class, go to basketballpractice, and then that night
(12:34):
drives as fast as I could backhome and hopefully be able to
meet up with someone and thenget back in time to get some
sleep and get ready for class inthe morning.
So that's when I really startedto see that there was a problem
.
Once you're in active addiction,in that moment you don't say,
oh my gosh, you got a problem.
When I look back on it now,that's when I realized like it
(12:56):
really was beginning to be aproblem for sure, like it was
obviously a problem from thevery first time.
This is not something that youwant to try.
It is not something that youwant to say you know what?
I'm growing up, I want toexperiment.
I want to experiment everythingin life.
Just assure that you do not, inany way, shape or form, want to
(13:17):
try and go down this road.
It is a road that you will losecontrol very, very quickly.
It's just not something thatyou want to do.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
What you have said is so important In your case for
you.
You didn't take one pill andall of a sudden be in full blown
addiction.
It was slowly over time andthen it took you, now looking
back realizing, wow, I guess Iwas in addiction, but during
that time you didn't realize it.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You know, as far as blue plaid getting into the
schools I'm going back on whatyou just said here we need all
the help we can get.
We need every parent out there.
We need everybody in thecommunity fighting for us
because obviously everyone knowsthe I guess political side of
things how.
You know we want this in herebut we know certain parents
don't want it in there.
(14:07):
You know they don't want theirkid hearing this.
It is so much more importantnow than it has ever been before
.
You know I look back on that was2003, 2004, roughly in that
area, when I first tried apercocet.
Okay, trying one percocet.
Being completely honest withyou, there's not much chance of
(14:28):
an overdose on one percocet or apoisoning that we fight now,
that we battle now with thepoisonings.
As Far as losing your life, youreally had to completely Overdo
it then.
We had dare back then in schooland in all reality the strength
of that dare class was up toyour PE teacher, slash health
(14:49):
teacher.
If they wanted to give iteverything they had.
Then you got some information.
I never want to put blame onanything or I made the choice
myself.
I'm the one that's at fault foreverything that that happened
in my life as far as my battlewith addiction.
But maybe, just maybe, if therewas a class that really shook
me and said, look, you do not inany way, shape or form, want to
(15:11):
try this, maybe it could havechanged.
I don't know.
You know, I said here beforeyou and I'm I do honestly say
that I'm glad that I wentthrough what I have, because I
have the message and I have theInformation to go out there and
help people, because it's notgonna stop.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I'm amazed that the people that don't even know what
fentanyl is.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Oh yeah.
So the possibility of me beingin a class Like what we are here
to offer from blue plaid inthese schools.
If I would have had that backthen I do feel like that.
Maybe it never would havehappened.
But the message that we aretrying to bring to these kids,
it's night and day, moreimportant now than it ever has
been before, because you canliterally try it one, one single
(15:57):
time and you lose your life onetime.
The statistics as far as whatthey do sample Out of the
fentanyl that is out there now.
If they put it in a pill form,six out of ten of those pills
will kill you instantly.
Six out of ten.
That is not.
That's not a chance that youwant to take at all.
We had as blue plaid.
(16:17):
We get all of our informationDirectly from the DEA.
We have affiliations with themand we get all of our
information directly from them.
So what we are out thereeducating people on, we know
that it is the absolute truth.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You know, I was at lunch yesterday with someone and
we got to talking aboutfentanyl and I told her.
I said you know, it only takesthe amount of a few grains of
salt and that will kill youAbsolutely.
And even though she was veryeducated on fentanyl, she looked
at me in surprise like shedidn't realize it was that
(16:51):
potent very much so.
I said yes.
I said yes, it's one pill willkill.
I believe that's one of yoursayings, right?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I think I was reading also San Francisco, sadly, is
losing three people a day Fromfentanyl poisoning three people
a day.
That is staggering and it's sadbecause, like you said, if you
would have had a class and thatclass then turns into a
(17:20):
community, then it goes from onevoice to then a crowd and
that's what we need and we, weneed it in the school system
Because that's where ourchildren are.
But then we also need ourparents to be educated as well,
so if their child comes to them,they know how to handle that
conversation, because Parentsdon't always know how to handle
(17:41):
that conversation.
They think my, my kids wouldnever do that.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Exactly all the time my family or my child.
That's not gonna happen to us.
We have an assembly set up forthe kids, but we also have the
parent night as well.
Parent night is a little bitdifferent.
The parents get the informationthat they need and they're
getting it from someone that wastheir kid, from someone that
knows how to hide the thingsthat a child would hide from
(18:08):
their parent.
A kid never wants to get introuble, so you know they're
gonna be getting it from someonethat was in their child shoes,
that did through this at thatage.
It's so educational foreveryone and, like you said, I'm
just one person.
You're just one person.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Absolutely, and we were just talking about parents.
So can you tell me what it waslike when your parents realized
their son had an addiction?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Now you're gonna make me cry, because no it's okay so
.
I also lost my mom as well.
I've actually lost both of myparents now, but my mom was this
little petite thing.
She was so small compared to meI'm six, four, almost six, five
, and and she was so small.
But she, she would look up atme and when she had this look
(18:58):
and her eyes would, when she wasmad, they would kind of dart
back and forth.
So, you saying that reallyliterally, I could see her.
But, oh man, we weren't forcedto go to church.
But we know, we knew as kidsthat we were gonna disappoint
mom and dad if we didn't go.
So I did grow up in, you know,southern Baptist, you know
(19:19):
country style church, where youknow you knew that the line you
were supposed to toe, if youdidn't, you were back.
Then it was you're getting thebelt, you know.
So I'm not gonna lie, I hit itvery, very well.
I like.
I, like I said before when Ifirst started, the first time
you use you know your dopaminelevel spikes up and then, once
(19:41):
that high comes down, you dipdown into what you basically
call Depression.
That's the best way to look atit.
It's not really Depression, butyour dopamine level spikes so
high once you come down, yourdepression levels go down as
well and and every time that youuse, the level of the dopamine
(20:02):
is lower like it's.
It's not as high.
You're not getting that highthat you did the first time but
those levels of sadness are more.
I never personally experiencedthat.
Once college happened because Iblew my knee out.
I got more pain pills for thatRight after college and
everything happened with that.
That's when everyone reallystarted to see the difference in
(20:24):
the change, really startedlosing weight.
I started to focus more on theaddiction side of things, as far
as I need this and I don'treally care if I have this as
far as food and things like that.
So that's when it reallyspiraled out of control.
So that's the point when myparents and my, my older sisters
(20:44):
and everyone around me reallystarted to see the difference.
So, oh man, when they firstfound out, obviously they had
never really went through thatbefore as far as a parent, so
they didn't know what to doimmediately rehab, you got to go
to rehab.
You got to go to rehab and youknow, at that point in time it
(21:04):
did nothing for me.
I wasn't in the mindset ofwanting to change, if you know.
You asked what it was like forthem.
Heartbreaking, I guess you knowI'd like, like I said at the
very beat that look, if I couldgo back, I would never give that
look for my mom.
I'd never give her a reason togive me that look.
(21:25):
You know, it was justheartbreaking.
It was heartbreaking for themto see that their child was
going through that and I feellike it was even more
heartbreaking for them to notknow how to help, to not know
how to truly Be there and help.
The situation, you know.
So I don't want to be a deadhorse, so to speak, but it is so
important for us to get thisinformation to these kids and
(21:49):
these parents.
Everyone needs to be educatedon all of this, because every
single person knows someone thathas been directly affected by
addiction or a fentanylpoisoning now, and that that
number is climbing so much morehigher.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Right.
I have to imagine For theparents that you hear my child
would never do that.
It's got to be heart-wrenchingBecause you saw firsthand what
it looked like on your mom'sface, who probably believed my
son would never do that right.
It's very personal for you.
(22:27):
Yeah and so many levels, on somany levels.
The audience can hear thepassion in your voice because
this is real, you know.
The other thing you said that Ithink is important is a lot of
times we think this exists inthe big cities.
You grew up in a rural area.
People don't necessarilyassociate that with drugs and
(22:48):
crime and all of those otherthings, but the reality is
fentanyl is in every Community,no matter how big or how small,
and you and I are not havingthis conversation today to scare
people, but we want them to beaware.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Absolutely.
You know, like just to go backon a couple things you said, it
does.
It really does break my heart.
First of all, I hope and praythat it doesn't happen to you.
I pray that it hasn't happenedand it never will happen to you.
But in all reality, thestatistics are.
Fentanyl based poisonings areclimbing so rapidly.
(23:27):
You know, me and my wife areout there and what I like to
call the trenches.
We're out there in the homelesscamps and stuff like that and
we're making sure that they havethe Narcane that they need
because they're going throughactive addiction at this time.
That's where I personally go.
We're out there at thedifferent festivals, we're at
recovery fest, we're at SpaceCoast pride, we're at anything
(23:48):
you can think of a car show.
We're anywhere and everywhereto try to get this word out that
, trust me, there's not a partof this country that it's not
affecting.
It is absolutely everywhere.
That's not something that'schanged with just the fentanyl.
It's like one of the smallesttowns in the United States, in
West Virginia, used to be theopioid prescription pain
(24:11):
medicine capital of the UnitedStates.
A little small town in WestVirginia, the smaller town
you're in, the more boredeverybody is.
So, unfortunately, they'regonna seek out ways for
entertainment also.
Unfortunately, sometimes weseek out entertainment.
That's not the most healthy way.
We don't go out and play a gameof football or whatever.
(24:32):
We experiment with things weshouldn't experiment with.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
So I Think it's important to say that for people
who don't think it'll happen,it may not directly happen to
them.
You know their, their child maynot try anything.
That's great, but theirneighbor might exactly.
Yeah, your child's best friendmight yes a distant relative
(24:58):
might so when we talk about butit will happen somebody, you
know it will happen to them ortheir family.
And when we look at ourselvesas a community, we must love
each other, we must care abouteach other.
We must be aware.
Josh, I think we will take aquick 30-second break to hear a
(25:21):
word from our sponsor, the blueplaid society.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So one thing that I really want to hit on as far as
loving each other and being acommunity strong together we
oftentimes, as human beings, weput ourselves and our family in
this little box.
We wake up in the morning, weget ready for work, or maybe we
got to take the kids to school,and then, you know, we run
errands or we go to work, andthen we come home from work and
(25:54):
then we hang out and then we goto sleep and we do it again.
That's the little box I'mtalking about.
We put our family and ourselvesin this little box and a lot of
times we don't ever lookoutside that box.
I encourage you, if you'relistening, take yourself out of
that box for a minute and justlook at the bigger picture of
(26:14):
life outside of that little boxand, trust me, that box is
important, that's something thatyou want to protect and take
care of.
But if you just take a minuteand get out of that boundaries,
get out of that box, you willsee someone that does need you,
that does need to know that theyare loved, they matter, and
that is one key way for us to bestrong as a community to be
(26:38):
strong and love each other.
When you go to the gas station,take a minute and look around.
You are going to see someonethat visibly looks sad.
They don't even have to screamit.
They show that they're in a badplace and that very moment you
passing that person and juststopping them and saying, hey, I
hope you're having a great day.
(26:58):
In all reality, anything thatyou do in a positive way is
loving them and showing themlove.
They realize, you know what,I'm not alone.
I'm not here in this worldalone.
Someone does see me, someonedoes love me.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I think we call that situational awareness with the
intent to help.
Yeah, because I talk aboutsituational awareness in regards
to keeping yourself safe.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, I tell the kids all the time make sure you're
aware of your surroundings, youknow, and, like you just said,
to keep yourself safe.
If you do that in all aspectsof life, you not only keep
yourself safe, but you'rehelping others as well.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I love it.
So let's talk about.
You.
Started out with opioids.
Can you tell me the progressionto where you actually became
addicted to fentanyl?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, yeah.
So fentanyl is technically anopioid.
So you know, if you take heroinor morphine, those were the
strongest opioids that you couldget.
So now we have fentanyl in thepicture and it is minimal, 10
times stronger than morphine andheroin.
The fentanyl that is out therein the street, the fentanyl that
, when I say six out of 10 pillscan kill you, that's what's
(28:12):
being, you know, sold oversocial media to our kids.
That's what's being sold in thestreets.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Can I?
I hate to interrupt you.
You're doing great.
You said something and I thinkwe need to make this clear.
You probably can educate them alittle clearer than I can on
this, as we are talking aboutsynthetic fentanyl, because
fentanyl has been around foryears, but it's been used in a
hospital setting yes, for painrelief.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yes, it's any type of severe pain, they'll use
fentanyl.
But that fentanyl that is outthere in the medical side of
things is made in a lab.
Let's get that clear.
It's made in a multi-milliondollar lab.
It is being made properly.
It is being mixed properly.
The precursor is being mademainly in China and then that is
(29:00):
being sold to cartels and twodifferent drug organizations.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Can you tell me again what you mean when you say
precursor?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Okay, so precursor is equal to a Kool-Aid packet.
You go to the store, you buy aKool-Aid packet that's 100%
Kool-Aid.
Then you take that packet andyou mix it with water and that
is the version of Kool-Aid thatyou are supposed to drink.
You're not supposed to take theKool-Aid packet and dump it
(29:30):
directly in your mouth.
That would be too much.
The precursor will 100% know ifAnderbutt's about it kill.
Anybody that touches itbreathes it.
Anything you can think of itwill kill you.
They're putting the precursorin.
They're mixing it with theother ingredients.
If you take a baseball sizeamount of fentanyl because it
(29:50):
was mixed so haphazardly, youhave spots that aren't going to
do anything to you.
You're probably not going tofeel any type of high from it.
You have spots that are goingto give you that high but
they're not strong enough tokill you.
But then because it's mixed theway that it is, that is why a
minimum of six out of 10 pillscan kill you.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
That was the perfect way to describe that.
Thank you so much.
Now that we've talked about thedifference between the
fentanyls, which was soimportant, let's get into then.
You were exposed to fentanylbecause you took a pill that you
thought was percocet and it hadfentanyl in it.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I really do feel like this last relapse had to happen
.
I was clean for a little overtwo years.
I didn't have really anythought about using.
I was living life and it wasgreat.
I met this person when I wasbartending.
He came in and had a few drinksor whatever multiple times,
even when I was still bartending.
(30:50):
I found out a couple of timesmeeting him that he was a drug
dealer or whatever, but even atthat time I didn't even think
about asking him, didn't have nothought about talking to him
about it.
It just never happened.
So, long story short, I stoppedbartending and, oh my goodness,
months went by, months, fromthe last time I seen this guy.
(31:11):
Like I said, I feel like it wasmeant to be that this happened
because leading up to when I sawhim, I had been just battling
myself as far as being the manof the family, things, as far as
I couldn't get throughfinancially.
I was just struggling mentallyand beating myself up.
(31:33):
Like I said earlier, if youlook at yourself in the mirror
and tell yourself you're afailure over and over again,
well, in your mind and body youbecome a failure.
That's what you tell yourself,like the time when it first
happened my homecoming night.
I was battling myself mentally.
It was a Saturday.
I was out riding my motorcycleby myself, I was just enjoying
(31:54):
the day.
And I pull up at a gas stationand I'm walking in and he was
walking out, the guy that I metwhile bartending.
For some crazy reason that day,the wheels just started turning
in my head.
Well, maybe he does havesomething.
Maybe you can just do this onemore time and enjoy the day.
(32:15):
So I walked inside, I paid forthe gas or whatever that I got
that day, and I walked outsideand he was standing there by the
pump and I just asked.
I was like hey, man, I knowI've never talked to you about
this before, but I was wonderingif you had anything.
And it happened.
He did.
(32:35):
He had like a pill form, andthis is something that you need
to hear and understand.
It looked just like thePercocets that I was used to
doing 100%.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
And the exchange happened right at the gas pump.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It was.
We just did different things tomake it look like we were
having a conversation and thenwe slowly made it happen or
whatever.
So, yeah, it was 100% what Ithought and looked like the pain
pills that I was used to doing.
100%, and I think God, withouta shadow of a doubt, because I
(33:10):
knew what I could take as far asthe pain pills go.
Even though I had been twoyears sober, I knew that I could
take a five milligram Percocet.
I knew that I could take thatand I would be fine, I wouldn't
die from it.
So thank God that I got one ofthe four out of the 10 that
aren't strong enough to kill meimmediately, because I wouldn't
(33:33):
be here today.
So, yeah, I took it and I knewthat it was strong.
But the fact that it hadfentanyl in it, it was a slow,
gradual increase.
I'm here to tell you that thevery first time that fentanyl
hooked me, it literally sunkitself in and at that very
moment I didn't know it wasfentanyl.
(33:54):
But I do know, without a shadowof a doubt, that after that day
, after that one moment, I 100%wanted more.
It wasn't going to be just thatday, as soon as I experienced
the dopamine spike from whatfentanyl was in that pill.
It was immediate.
I wanted more.
I wanted to go back and stuff.
(34:16):
So I literally tracked him downthrough people that I had
worked with at the bar.
I did everything that I couldto get a hold of this guy Before
I knew it.
I knew where he lived and I wasdealing with him directly.
I was going to his house and itliterally sunk its claws into
me so fast.
It was unlike anything thatI've ever experienced before.
(34:39):
This relapse with fentanyllasted almost two months.
I got to the point where I andeveryone else around me saw the
downfall almost immediately.
The guys that I work with mywife you know family members
they immediately, like days or aweek into this relapse, like
(35:00):
dude, what's up with you, man?
You're acting crazy.
You're doing things that younever do.
You're losing weight.
You're saying you need to leavefrom work early but you'll be
back in an hour, but you nevershow back up or you're calling
out of work completely.
The change was so drastic and sofast that everyone knew a
difference.
I didn't go through full-blownwithdrawals until I decided to
(35:24):
stop.
You know, during that twomonths span of time, I always
made sure that I got back overthere before I would run out.
I would start to go through alittle bit of sickness, but I
didn't know what was in tow forme when I stopped hours, two or
three hours into stopping, I wasin the worst thing you could
ever think of.
(35:44):
I really did think I was goingto die.
I thought I was going to die.
And just because we're heretalking about this, I like to
say this.
I'm not trying to gross anybodyout.
You know one thing that Iremember daily I was laying on
my bed.
I could not move.
I literally couldn't move on myown physical strength, I
(36:05):
couldn't move my body and I wasprojectile vomiting from my bed
and it was hitting the ceiling.
It was horrible.
I knew that my body needed toget fluids in it.
So for about a solid week atleast five days to a week I was
trying to put Gatorade in mybody and Pepto-Bismol, but
(36:27):
immediately it was coming rightback up.
So after about five to sevendays, the most movement that I
did in that week was mayberolling over, being able to turn
over into a different positionin the bed.
So after about a week I got tothe point where I could finally
get up.
It was about another week ormore after that until I could
(36:47):
keep any foods down, any type ofsolid food.
It was literally the worstthing that I could ever go
through or have someone everimagined going through.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Did you have a support system?
Did you have someone there tohelp you?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
As frustrated as my wife got.
She stayed there.
She's got a really weak stomachso she couldn't really handle
the sickness side of it.
But she was there.
She made sure that I was safe,made sure that I was okay and
you know, there's really notmuch that someone can do at that
time.
You literally have to trudgethrough it and get through it
(37:25):
and let your body get all thosetoxins out.
With the fentanyl all thosetoxins are there's just so much
more potent and stronger.
That's why it took so muchlonger for me to get to the
point where I could start to getbetter.
So she was there.
She never left, and she gotfrustrated many times and gave
me a lot of tough love.
(37:46):
There was times when I didn'twant to drink anything, so she
would come in and make sure thatI was, you know, getting fluids
in me and Pepto-Bismol andstuff like that.
So yeah, she did everythingthat she could.
Some friends from work came tocheck on me because at this
point, the day that I completelywanted to stop, I came to my
(38:07):
house and told my wifeeverything first.
That's who I told.
You know, this is what I'vebeen doing and this is I can't
do this anymore.
But then you know my workfamily.
They're my brothers.
I'm very close to a lot of them, so I immediately went and told
them to.
I told them for multipledifferent reasons.
First of all, I told them outof respect and the fact that you
(38:29):
know you've been telling mesomething's wrong.
I've been lying to you andsaying there wasn't anything
wrong.
Okay, I'm sorry, you know, Iwant to respect you and let you
know that there was somethingwrong and this is what it was.
And, at the same time, the morepeople that knew exactly what I
had gone through and what I wasdoing, those are more people
that would hold me accountableto who I am today.
(38:49):
If there was a possibility ofit happening again.
I would want them to know whatto look for.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I have interviewed other people on my podcast who
are in recovery and they allshare situations where they
would continually go back tofamily members, friends you know
, I'm gonna get clean, I'm gonnaget clean, I'm.
You know, this is it.
This is it no more.
And the family wants so much tobelieve them.
(39:19):
Right, but this is a cycle thatthey've been used to, where
that individual just ends upback in the addiction phase of
things.
What would you say to familymembers, friends, co-workers
that are dealing with watching aloved one struggle, but yet
this family member and everybodyelse is on the verge of giving
(39:42):
up on them because they've seenthis cycle over and over?
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Oh, that's a tough one, because I do take a step
back and look at this from bothsides.
First of all, without anytrying at all, I look at it from
the side of someone that hasbeen through it.
But then, on the flip side ofthat, I try to look at it from
someone that hasn't been throughit and how I would react.
This is what I would say tothem and this is what I have
(40:10):
said to multiple people that aregoing through that situation.
You got to understand that,whether it is just your normal
opiates or fentanyl, these drugscompletely hijack your brain.
They change everything.
They change your way ofthinking, they change your
survival techniques.
They change everything.
(40:32):
Now fentanyl is so much morestronger and so much more potent
and it does it, you know, in amuch more rapid way.
That person in addiction is notwho you love.
It is pretty much a differentperson.
You're looking at who you know,but that person is not the
person that you know and love.
So, as much as it sucks I knowthat it has to suck it really
(40:53):
does.
If you truly love that person,know that you love the person
that they truly are, and themoment and the time that they
change for real is when theyreally want to change, when they
know themselves can't do it.
They're not going to do it foranyone else.
They're not going to do it fora wife, they're not going to do
(41:15):
it for a kid, they're not goingto do it for their parents,
they're not going to do it fortheir friends.
They're going to do it whenthey know that they can't do
this anymore.
The harsh reality of it issometimes you do have to let
them go because everybody has toworry about their own mental
health and their own self first.
That's the truth of it.
(41:36):
Parents, you worry about yourkids and stuff like that.
But you know in all reality,the very first decision that
every single person makes intheir day is for you.
You decide okay, I open my eyes, now, I'm going to get out of
bed and I'm going to start toget myself together.
You can't effectively helpanyone else if you're not taking
(41:59):
care of yourself.
I do know, without a shadow ofa doubt, that everyone can
change.
I know that 100% and truechange, real change to where the
rest of their life.
They effectively make the rightchoices as far as addiction
goes.
But the harsh reality of it is.
Some people won't.
Some people don't ever get tothat point and I don't know why
(42:25):
I really don't.
It's such a hard battle andit's such a hard thing to
explain to someone.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Amazing message.
Thank you so much for sharing.
No problem, Josh.
Thank you so much for being myguest today on the I Need Blue
podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Thank you, but you are awesome, seriously thank you
.
Thank you for what you do.
The platform that you have andwhat you do with sharing
people's road to recovery in somany different varieties of ways
is truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening.
This is Jennifer Lee with the INeed Blue podcast.
Thank you again to our sponsorfor this episode, the Blue Plaid
Society.
As always, thank you forlistening.
You can find anything andeverything you ever needed to
learn about I Need Blue on mywebsite, wwwineedbluenet.
(43:20):
And remember you are strongerthan you think.
Until next time, thank you,thank you, thank you.
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Welcome to the I Need Bluepodcast.
This is Shar Good and I amhonored to introduce Jennifer
(00:23):
Lee, author, life coach and hostof today's show on the I Need
Blue podcast.
Thank you for that warmintroduction, shar, and welcome
(00:46):
to I Need Blue, the podcastabout to take you on an
extraordinary journey whereprofound narratives come to life
, one captivating episode at atime.
I'm your host, jennifer Lee,and I founded this podcast
because I know there is healingand sharing.
Each story you will hear sharedon this podcast is a testament
(01:09):
to our collective strength,innate ability to transform in
the incredible power of healing.
Please remember you are neveralone.
Please visit and share mywebsite with those seeking
connection and inspirationwwwineedbluenet.
(01:30):
Thank you, shar Good, forcomposing and performing the
introduction medley for I NeedBlue.
You can find information aboutShar on her website,
wwwshargoodcom.
Before starting today's episode,I must provide a trigger
warning.
I need Blue features graphicthemes, including, but not
(01:51):
limited to, violence, abuse andmurder, and may not be suitable
for all listeners.
Please take care of yourselfand don't hesitate to ask for
help if you need it.
Before we start today's story,I would like to thank the Blue
Plaid Society for sponsoringthis episode.
(02:12):
I sat mesmerized and overcomewith emotions as I watched Josh
share his story at the CentralFlorida Fentanyl Summit in
August of 2023.
The Blue Plaid Society hoststhis community event.
(02:35):
I understood the courage tostand before a crowd and share
our life experiences.
Josh did it with conviction,leaving the attendees with a ray
of hope.
The room erupted with applausewhen he was finished.
His story begins during his highschool years.
(02:57):
He suffered the unexpected lossof his brother and grandparents
only months apart.
The emotional pain wasoverwhelming and distracting.
He felt defeated by life.
He didn't live.
He only existed during thesetimes.
Then something happened in hisjunior year of high school
(03:22):
opioids.
They dulled the emotional painof loss but ultimately created a
new type of pain.
Josh is sober today and has amessage of hope, love and
purpose.
Josh, thank you for being myspecial guest and welcome to the
(03:44):
I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Absolutely.
I'm so glad you accepted myinvitation.
I'm rather honored that you arehere with me today.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, I am very honored to be here.
We've talked many times beforeand it's amazing what you do and
the platform that you have andjust to get the story of hope
and recovery out there to peoplethat need to hear it.
I'm very, very honored to behere.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Thank you so much.
I have to tell you my podcastwould not exist if it wasn't for
survivors like you wanting tocome forward and share their
story Honestly.
It lives because of people likeyou.
I know your story is going tobe an inspiration to others.
(04:36):
Those listening, like us in theaudience that day at the summit
, will feel that ray of hope.
It might just be that littlemessage they needed to hear that
will make a difference in theirlife.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, we never know who we're going to touch with
our story.
That's why we come forward andwe share right?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes, it literally just takes one, maybe even a
glance at someone, just a hellohey, how are you doing?
And that literally sparks theirroad to recovery.
It sparks that change ofmindset to get to the point to
where they don't feel hopelessanymore.
They do feel like someone'sthere for them, they do feel
(05:18):
like someone cares and that,right, there is that moment to
where everything kind of juststarts to change and that 180
starts and they can start downthat road of recovery.
And it's a long road, it's alifelong road.
We all continue to recover fromthe things that we've been
through.
I hope that everything thatI've done, the mistakes that
(05:40):
I've made, I hope that I canreach people out there and help
them to recover from the thingsthat they are going through
right now.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You said so many profound things and before we
start your story, you saidsomething about you are sober
today, and you and I talkedabout why you specifically say I
am sober today.
Can you share that with us realquick?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean there's a coupledifferent reasons for it, but
you know, when I look back on it, for example, I would go to an
NA meeting, or you know justdifferent things that I would
try to do as far as to, you know, stay on that road to recovery.
And you know I'd sit there inthe audience and people would
stand up and you know, hi, myname's So-and-so.
I've got 15 years of sobriety.
(06:31):
Or I've got five years ofsobriety, I've got 10 years of
sobriety.
I can think back to multipletimes where that wasn't really a
spark of light for me.
It was more of a oh my gosh, amI ever going to make it to that
point?
You know, that's one reason whyI don't ever give any type of
you know amount of time forsobriety.
I'm winning today and that'swhat I'm looking forward to.
(06:53):
I wake up in the morning andI'm going to win today, whatever
I got to do to get through it,and then when I lay down at
night, I've won again.
You know it's multipledifferent victories.
You've got to get over thosehurdles.
You've got to get over thosethings that trigger those
thoughts in your head of wantingto go back and slide back into
addiction.
If you just focus on right now,in this moment, in this day,
(07:16):
you have so many more victorieswithin a and stuff.
You only stand up for your year.
You know you stand up for Ihave one year, I have two years.
Where's all the littlevictories in there that you can
celebrate?
Every moment is a victory.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I love that, especially when you said I'm
going to win today.
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
It really is.
It brings so much encouragement.
It really does.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Absolutely.
Some people, I don't think,understand that you didn't wake
up one day and say I'm going tobecome an addict.
There's always a backstory,there's always a journey that
led them to where they are today.
And that's part of why I havemy podcast is because I'm really
(08:02):
interested in that journey thatyou went through, because
somebody listening may be inthat journey.
They may have a relative that'sin that journey.
They may have a friend that'sin that journey.
And when you come forward andshare, and you share your
experiences and the behaviorsand the emotions behind them,
(08:23):
you're helping others to copeand maybe be able to help their
friend and provide them hope aswell.
So I'm going to let you startthat.
We started the introduction inyour high school years.
If that's where you want tostart, that's great.
If you want to go back further,that's great too.
It's always at your comfortlevel.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Okay, the friends that I was running around with.
We really had experimented withmarijuana and alcohol
specifically.
Those were the only two things.
The key thing that I want totalk about before that night my
high school homecoming was thefact that I did lose people.
I lost my brother, which wasabsolutely my best friend.
(09:02):
He was like my road dog.
We literally spent every momentwe could together and then my
grandparents died 11 days apart,and that just put me in a
really, really bad spot.
I was getting through it.
I was trudging through it.
It was a slow and steady pace,but I was making it.
I was back to school andstarting to go through my normal
(09:25):
day-to-day stuff.
I went to homecoming.
I actually thought about notgoing to homecoming.
I was playing basketball and wehad a basketball game before the
dance and before everything.
I went to the game, but I justreally wasn't in the mood to
just go out to a dance or haveany fun, like things like that.
So I ended up going and thatnight we went to a little party
(09:48):
at my buddy's house after thedance.
That's when it happened.
That's when that moment came.
I literally can see exactly howit happened in my mind, moment
by moment, picture by picture.
He just walked in and he's likehey, I need to talk to you for
a minute.
And he offered Perkisette.
(10:10):
At the time it was fivemilligrams.
It wasn't anything strong, itwas for me then, but I tried it.
He kind of glamorized it as faras it's going to take away the
pain a little bit, it's going totake away the emotions, it's
going to have some fun.
So, yeah, I tried it and itdidn't really snowball super
(10:31):
fast, it progressed.
I took it that one night andthen it kind of started out as a
recreational thing, like whenwe was hanging out having fun,
stuff like that.
It definitely did take away theemotions.
It dulled them, it masked themas really what it did.
It didn't take it away, but itdid dull it.
(10:52):
It allowed me to, I guess, behappy again in that moment when
I should have been dealing withthose emotions the proper way,
because there are so manydifferent healthy ways to deal
with our emotions.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And did your friends take Perkisette as well?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah yeah, I didn't know it at the time.
So there was three or four guysthat I'd really really hung out
with.
We all have that core group offriends.
So there was three or four ofthem and two of them had already
experimented with it.
I just didn't know about ituntil that night.
So my buddy that offered it tome.
He hung around with a littlebit of an older crowd, so that's
(11:30):
where he ended up trying itfrom.
Both of us ended up gettingeverything from there's older
kids.
It slowly became a dailyaddiction.
I battled it for about 15 yearsBefore I knew it.
I blinked and 15 years had goneby and I was in active
addiction pretty much that wholetime.
(11:51):
This was when I really reallynoticed that I had an issue,
because I lived in a small townin Ohio at the time, right on
the border of Ohio and Kentucky,and the college that I went to
was about 50 miles away from myhometown.
So that was the first time thatI really ever lived that far
away.
Once I moved, got to college,you know I'd go home every
(12:14):
weekend and then I would makesure that I got what I thought
was enough to get me through theweek at college.
Well then, you know, monday,tuesday, tuesday night, coming
into Wednesday, I'm like, oh mygosh, I'm about to run out.
I found myself struggling andkind of trying to get back home,
go to class, go to basketballpractice, and then that night
(12:34):
drives as fast as I could backhome and hopefully be able to
meet up with someone and thenget back in time to get some
sleep and get ready for class inthe morning.
So that's when I really startedto see that there was a problem
.
Once you're in active addiction,in that moment you don't say,
oh my gosh, you got a problem.
When I look back on it now,that's when I realized like it
(12:56):
really was beginning to be aproblem for sure, like it was
obviously a problem from thevery first time.
This is not something that youwant to try.
It is not something that youwant to say you know what?
I'm growing up, I want toexperiment.
I want to experiment everythingin life.
Just assure that you do not, inany way, shape or form, want to
(13:17):
try and go down this road.
It is a road that you will losecontrol very, very quickly.
It's just not something thatyou want to do.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
What you have said is so important In your case for
you.
You didn't take one pill andall of a sudden be in full blown
addiction.
It was slowly over time andthen it took you, now looking
back realizing, wow, I guess Iwas in addiction, but during
that time you didn't realize it.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
You know, as far as blue plaid getting into the
schools I'm going back on whatyou just said here we need all
the help we can get.
We need every parent out there.
We need everybody in thecommunity fighting for us
because obviously everyone knowsthe I guess political side of
things how.
You know we want this in herebut we know certain parents
don't want it in there.
(14:07):
You know they don't want theirkid hearing this.
It is so much more importantnow than it has ever been before
.
You know I look back on that was2003, 2004, roughly in that
area, when I first tried apercocet.
Okay, trying one percocet.
Being completely honest withyou, there's not much chance of
(14:28):
an overdose on one percocet or apoisoning that we fight now,
that we battle now with thepoisonings.
As Far as losing your life, youreally had to completely Overdo
it then.
We had dare back then in schooland in all reality the strength
of that dare class was up toyour PE teacher, slash health
(14:49):
teacher.
If they wanted to give iteverything they had.
Then you got some information.
I never want to put blame onanything or I made the choice
myself.
I'm the one that's at fault foreverything that that happened
in my life as far as my battlewith addiction.
But maybe, just maybe, if therewas a class that really shook
me and said, look, you do not inany way, shape or form, want to
(15:11):
try this, maybe it could havechanged.
I don't know.
You know, I said here beforeyou and I'm I do honestly say
that I'm glad that I wentthrough what I have, because I
have the message and I have theInformation to go out there and
help people, because it's notgonna stop.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I'm amazed that the people that don't even know what
fentanyl is.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Oh yeah.
So the possibility of me beingin a class Like what we are here
to offer from blue plaid inthese schools.
If I would have had that backthen I do feel like that.
Maybe it never would havehappened.
But the message that we aretrying to bring to these kids,
it's night and day, moreimportant now than it ever has
been before, because you canliterally try it one, one single
(15:57):
time and you lose your life onetime.
The statistics as far as whatthey do sample Out of the
fentanyl that is out there now.
If they put it in a pill form,six out of ten of those pills
will kill you instantly.
Six out of ten.
That is not.
That's not a chance that youwant to take at all.
We had as blue plaid.
(16:17):
We get all of our informationDirectly from the DEA.
We have affiliations with themand we get all of our
information directly from them.
So what we are out thereeducating people on, we know
that it is the absolute truth.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
You know, I was at lunch yesterday with someone and
we got to talking aboutfentanyl and I told her.
I said you know, it only takesthe amount of a few grains of
salt and that will kill youAbsolutely.
And even though she was veryeducated on fentanyl, she looked
at me in surprise like shedidn't realize it was that
(16:51):
potent very much so.
I said yes.
I said yes, it's one pill willkill.
I believe that's one of yoursayings, right?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I think I was reading also San Francisco, sadly, is
losing three people a day Fromfentanyl poisoning three people
a day.
That is staggering and it's sadbecause, like you said, if you
would have had a class and thatclass then turns into a
(17:20):
community, then it goes from onevoice to then a crowd and
that's what we need and we, weneed it in the school system
Because that's where ourchildren are.
But then we also need ourparents to be educated as well,
so if their child comes to them,they know how to handle that
conversation, because Parentsdon't always know how to handle
(17:41):
that conversation.
They think my, my kids wouldnever do that.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Exactly all the time my family or my child.
That's not gonna happen to us.
We have an assembly set up forthe kids, but we also have the
parent night as well.
Parent night is a little bitdifferent.
The parents get the informationthat they need and they're
getting it from someone that wastheir kid, from someone that
knows how to hide the thingsthat a child would hide from
(18:08):
their parent.
A kid never wants to get introuble, so you know they're
gonna be getting it from someonethat was in their child shoes,
that did through this at thatage.
It's so educational foreveryone and, like you said, I'm
just one person.
You're just one person.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Absolutely, and we were just talking about parents.
So can you tell me what it waslike when your parents realized
their son had an addiction?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Now you're gonna make me cry, because no it's okay so
.
I also lost my mom as well.
I've actually lost both of myparents now, but my mom was this
little petite thing.
She was so small compared to meI'm six, four, almost six, five
, and and she was so small.
But she, she would look up atme and when she had this look
(18:58):
and her eyes would, when she wasmad, they would kind of dart
back and forth.
So, you saying that reallyliterally, I could see her.
But, oh man, we weren't forcedto go to church.
But we know, we knew as kidsthat we were gonna disappoint
mom and dad if we didn't go.
So I did grow up in, you know,southern Baptist, you know
(19:19):
country style church, where youknow you knew that the line you
were supposed to toe, if youdidn't, you were back.
Then it was you're getting thebelt, you know.
So I'm not gonna lie, I hit itvery, very well.
I like.
I, like I said before when Ifirst started, the first time
you use you know your dopaminelevel spikes up and then, once
(19:41):
that high comes down, you dipdown into what you basically
call Depression.
That's the best way to look atit.
It's not really Depression, butyour dopamine level spikes so
high once you come down, yourdepression levels go down as
well and and every time that youuse, the level of the dopamine
(20:02):
is lower like it's.
It's not as high.
You're not getting that highthat you did the first time but
those levels of sadness are more.
I never personally experiencedthat.
Once college happened because Iblew my knee out.
I got more pain pills for thatRight after college and
everything happened with that.
That's when everyone reallystarted to see the difference in
(20:24):
the change, really startedlosing weight.
I started to focus more on theaddiction side of things, as far
as I need this and I don'treally care if I have this as
far as food and things like that.
So that's when it reallyspiraled out of control.
So that's the point when myparents and my, my older sisters
(20:44):
and everyone around me reallystarted to see the difference.
So, oh man, when they firstfound out, obviously they had
never really went through thatbefore as far as a parent, so
they didn't know what to doimmediately rehab, you got to go
to rehab.
You got to go to rehab and youknow, at that point in time it
(21:04):
did nothing for me.
I wasn't in the mindset ofwanting to change, if you know.
You asked what it was like forthem.
Heartbreaking, I guess you knowI'd like, like I said at the
very beat that look, if I couldgo back, I would never give that
look for my mom.
I'd never give her a reason togive me that look.
(21:25):
You know, it was justheartbreaking.
It was heartbreaking for themto see that their child was
going through that and I feellike it was even more
heartbreaking for them to notknow how to help, to not know
how to truly Be there and help.
The situation, you know.
So I don't want to be a deadhorse, so to speak, but it is so
important for us to get thisinformation to these kids and
(21:49):
these parents.
Everyone needs to be educatedon all of this, because every
single person knows someone thathas been directly affected by
addiction or a fentanylpoisoning now, and that that
number is climbing so much morehigher.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Right.
I have to imagine For theparents that you hear my child
would never do that.
It's got to be heart-wrenchingBecause you saw firsthand what
it looked like on your mom'sface, who probably believed my
son would never do that right.
It's very personal for you.
(22:27):
Yeah and so many levels, on somany levels.
The audience can hear thepassion in your voice because
this is real, you know.
The other thing you said that Ithink is important is a lot of
times we think this exists inthe big cities.
You grew up in a rural area.
People don't necessarilyassociate that with drugs and
(22:48):
crime and all of those otherthings, but the reality is
fentanyl is in every Community,no matter how big or how small,
and you and I are not havingthis conversation today to scare
people, but we want them to beaware.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Absolutely.
You know, like just to go backon a couple things you said, it
does.
It really does break my heart.
First of all, I hope and praythat it doesn't happen to you.
I pray that it hasn't happenedand it never will happen to you.
But in all reality, thestatistics are.
Fentanyl based poisonings areclimbing so rapidly.
(23:27):
You know, me and my wife areout there and what I like to
call the trenches.
We're out there in the homelesscamps and stuff like that and
we're making sure that they havethe Narcane that they need
because they're going throughactive addiction at this time.
That's where I personally go.
We're out there at thedifferent festivals, we're at
recovery fest, we're at SpaceCoast pride, we're at anything
(23:48):
you can think of a car show.
We're anywhere and everywhereto try to get this word out that
, trust me, there's not a partof this country that it's not
affecting.
It is absolutely everywhere.
That's not something that'schanged with just the fentanyl.
It's like one of the smallesttowns in the United States, in
West Virginia, used to be theopioid prescription pain
(24:11):
medicine capital of the UnitedStates.
A little small town in WestVirginia, the smaller town
you're in, the more boredeverybody is.
So, unfortunately, they'regonna seek out ways for
entertainment also.
Unfortunately, sometimes weseek out entertainment.
That's not the most healthy way.
We don't go out and play a gameof football or whatever.
(24:32):
We experiment with things weshouldn't experiment with.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
So I Think it's important to say that for people
who don't think it'll happen,it may not directly happen to
them.
You know their, their child maynot try anything.
That's great, but theirneighbor might exactly.
Yeah, your child's best friendmight yes a distant relative
(24:58):
might so when we talk about butit will happen somebody, you
know it will happen to them ortheir family.
And when we look at ourselvesas a community, we must love
each other, we must care abouteach other.
We must be aware.
Josh, I think we will take aquick 30-second break to hear a
(25:21):
word from our sponsor, the blueplaid society.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So one thing that I really want to hit on as far as
loving each other and being acommunity strong together we
oftentimes, as human beings, weput ourselves and our family in
this little box.
We wake up in the morning, weget ready for work, or maybe we
got to take the kids to school,and then, you know, we run
errands or we go to work, andthen we come home from work and
(25:54):
then we hang out and then we goto sleep and we do it again.
That's the little box I'mtalking about.
We put our family and ourselvesin this little box and a lot of
times we don't ever lookoutside that box.
I encourage you, if you'relistening, take yourself out of
that box for a minute and justlook at the bigger picture of
(26:14):
life outside of that little boxand, trust me, that box is
important, that's something thatyou want to protect and take
care of.
But if you just take a minuteand get out of that boundaries,
get out of that box, you willsee someone that does need you,
that does need to know that theyare loved, they matter, and
that is one key way for us to bestrong as a community to be
(26:38):
strong and love each other.
When you go to the gas station,take a minute and look around.
You are going to see someonethat visibly looks sad.
They don't even have to screamit.
They show that they're in a badplace and that very moment you
passing that person and juststopping them and saying, hey, I
hope you're having a great day.
(26:58):
In all reality, anything thatyou do in a positive way is
loving them and showing themlove.
They realize, you know what,I'm not alone.
I'm not here in this worldalone.
Someone does see me, someonedoes love me.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I think we call that situational awareness with the
intent to help.
Yeah, because I talk aboutsituational awareness in regards
to keeping yourself safe.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, I tell the kids all the time make sure you're
aware of your surroundings, youknow, and, like you just said,
to keep yourself safe.
If you do that in all aspectsof life, you not only keep
yourself safe, but you'rehelping others as well.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I love it.
So let's talk about.
You.
Started out with opioids.
Can you tell me the progressionto where you actually became
addicted to fentanyl?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, yeah.
So fentanyl is technically anopioid.
So you know, if you take heroinor morphine, those were the
strongest opioids that you couldget.
So now we have fentanyl in thepicture and it is minimal, 10
times stronger than morphine andheroin.
The fentanyl that is out therein the street, the fentanyl that
, when I say six out of 10 pillscan kill you, that's what's
(28:12):
being, you know, sold oversocial media to our kids.
That's what's being sold in thestreets.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Can I?
I hate to interrupt you.
You're doing great.
You said something and I thinkwe need to make this clear.
You probably can educate them alittle clearer than I can on
this, as we are talking aboutsynthetic fentanyl, because
fentanyl has been around foryears, but it's been used in a
hospital setting yes, for painrelief.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yes, it's any type of severe pain, they'll use
fentanyl.
But that fentanyl that is outthere in the medical side of
things is made in a lab.
Let's get that clear.
It's made in a multi-milliondollar lab.
It is being made properly.
It is being mixed properly.
The precursor is being mademainly in China and then that is
(29:00):
being sold to cartels and twodifferent drug organizations.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Can you tell me again what you mean when you say
precursor?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Okay, so precursor is equal to a Kool-Aid packet.
You go to the store, you buy aKool-Aid packet that's 100%
Kool-Aid.
Then you take that packet andyou mix it with water and that
is the version of Kool-Aid thatyou are supposed to drink.
You're not supposed to take theKool-Aid packet and dump it
(29:30):
directly in your mouth.
That would be too much.
The precursor will 100% know ifAnderbutt's about it kill.
Anybody that touches itbreathes it.
Anything you can think of itwill kill you.
They're putting the precursorin.
They're mixing it with theother ingredients.
If you take a baseball sizeamount of fentanyl because it
(29:50):
was mixed so haphazardly, youhave spots that aren't going to
do anything to you.
You're probably not going tofeel any type of high from it.
You have spots that are goingto give you that high but
they're not strong enough tokill you.
But then because it's mixed theway that it is, that is why a
minimum of six out of 10 pillscan kill you.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
That was the perfect way to describe that.
Thank you so much.
Now that we've talked about thedifference between the
fentanyls, which was soimportant, let's get into then.
You were exposed to fentanylbecause you took a pill that you
thought was percocet and it hadfentanyl in it.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I really do feel like this last relapse had to happen
.
I was clean for a little overtwo years.
I didn't have really anythought about using.
I was living life and it wasgreat.
I met this person when I wasbartending.
He came in and had a few drinksor whatever multiple times,
even when I was still bartending.
(30:50):
I found out a couple of timesmeeting him that he was a drug
dealer or whatever, but even atthat time I didn't even think
about asking him, didn't have nothought about talking to him
about it.
It just never happened.
So, long story short, I stoppedbartending and, oh my goodness,
months went by, months, fromthe last time I seen this guy.
(31:11):
Like I said, I feel like it wasmeant to be that this happened
because leading up to when I sawhim, I had been just battling
myself as far as being the manof the family, things, as far as
I couldn't get throughfinancially.
I was just struggling mentallyand beating myself up.
(31:33):
Like I said earlier, if youlook at yourself in the mirror
and tell yourself you're afailure over and over again,
well, in your mind and body youbecome a failure.
That's what you tell yourself,like the time when it first
happened my homecoming night.
I was battling myself mentally.
It was a Saturday.
I was out riding my motorcycleby myself, I was just enjoying
(31:54):
the day.
And I pull up at a gas stationand I'm walking in and he was
walking out, the guy that I metwhile bartending.
For some crazy reason that day,the wheels just started turning
in my head.
Well, maybe he does havesomething.
Maybe you can just do this onemore time and enjoy the day.
(32:15):
So I walked inside, I paid forthe gas or whatever that I got
that day, and I walked outsideand he was standing there by the
pump and I just asked.
I was like hey, man, I knowI've never talked to you about
this before, but I was wonderingif you had anything.
And it happened.
He did.
(32:35):
He had like a pill form, andthis is something that you need
to hear and understand.
It looked just like thePercocets that I was used to
doing 100%.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
And the exchange happened right at the gas pump.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It was.
We just did different things tomake it look like we were
having a conversation and thenwe slowly made it happen or
whatever.
So, yeah, it was 100% what Ithought and looked like the pain
pills that I was used to doing.
100%, and I think God, withouta shadow of a doubt, because I
(33:10):
knew what I could take as far asthe pain pills go.
Even though I had been twoyears sober, I knew that I could
take a five milligram Percocet.
I knew that I could take thatand I would be fine, I wouldn't
die from it.
So thank God that I got one ofthe four out of the 10 that
aren't strong enough to kill meimmediately, because I wouldn't
(33:33):
be here today.
So, yeah, I took it and I knewthat it was strong.
But the fact that it hadfentanyl in it, it was a slow,
gradual increase.
I'm here to tell you that thevery first time that fentanyl
hooked me, it literally sunkitself in and at that very
moment I didn't know it wasfentanyl.
(33:54):
But I do know, without a shadowof a doubt, that after that day
, after that one moment, I 100%wanted more.
It wasn't going to be just thatday, as soon as I experienced
the dopamine spike from whatfentanyl was in that pill.
It was immediate.
I wanted more.
I wanted to go back and stuff.
(34:16):
So I literally tracked him downthrough people that I had
worked with at the bar.
I did everything that I couldto get a hold of this guy Before
I knew it.
I knew where he lived and I wasdealing with him directly.
I was going to his house and itliterally sunk its claws into
me so fast.
It was unlike anything thatI've ever experienced before.
(34:39):
This relapse with fentanyllasted almost two months.
I got to the point where I andeveryone else around me saw the
downfall almost immediately.
The guys that I work with mywife you know family members
they immediately, like days or aweek into this relapse, like
(35:00):
dude, what's up with you, man?
You're acting crazy.
You're doing things that younever do.
You're losing weight.
You're saying you need to leavefrom work early but you'll be
back in an hour, but you nevershow back up or you're calling
out of work completely.
The change was so drastic and sofast that everyone knew a
difference.
I didn't go through full-blownwithdrawals until I decided to
(35:24):
stop.
You know, during that twomonths span of time, I always
made sure that I got back overthere before I would run out.
I would start to go through alittle bit of sickness, but I
didn't know what was in tow forme when I stopped hours, two or
three hours into stopping, I wasin the worst thing you could
ever think of.
(35:44):
I really did think I was goingto die.
I thought I was going to die.
And just because we're heretalking about this, I like to
say this.
I'm not trying to gross anybodyout.
You know one thing that Iremember daily I was laying on
my bed.
I could not move.
I literally couldn't move on myown physical strength, I
(36:05):
couldn't move my body and I wasprojectile vomiting from my bed
and it was hitting the ceiling.
It was horrible.
I knew that my body needed toget fluids in it.
So for about a solid week atleast five days to a week I was
trying to put Gatorade in mybody and Pepto-Bismol, but
(36:27):
immediately it was coming rightback up.
So after about five to sevendays, the most movement that I
did in that week was mayberolling over, being able to turn
over into a different positionin the bed.
So after about a week I got tothe point where I could finally
get up.
It was about another week ormore after that until I could
(36:47):
keep any foods down, any type ofsolid food.
It was literally the worstthing that I could ever go
through or have someone everimagined going through.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Did you have a support system?
Did you have someone there tohelp you?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
As frustrated as my wife got.
She stayed there.
She's got a really weak stomachso she couldn't really handle
the sickness side of it.
But she was there.
She made sure that I was safe,made sure that I was okay and
you know, there's really notmuch that someone can do at that
time.
You literally have to trudgethrough it and get through it
(37:25):
and let your body get all thosetoxins out.
With the fentanyl all thosetoxins are there's just so much
more potent and stronger.
That's why it took so muchlonger for me to get to the
point where I could start to getbetter.
So she was there.
She never left, and she gotfrustrated many times and gave
me a lot of tough love.
(37:46):
There was times when I didn'twant to drink anything, so she
would come in and make sure thatI was, you know, getting fluids
in me and Pepto-Bismol andstuff like that.
So yeah, she did everythingthat she could.
Some friends from work came tocheck on me because at this
point, the day that I completelywanted to stop, I came to my
(38:07):
house and told my wifeeverything first.
That's who I told.
You know, this is what I'vebeen doing and this is I can't
do this anymore.
But then you know my workfamily.
They're my brothers.
I'm very close to a lot of them, so I immediately went and told
them to.
I told them for multipledifferent reasons.
First of all, I told them outof respect and the fact that you
(38:29):
know you've been telling mesomething's wrong.
I've been lying to you andsaying there wasn't anything
wrong.
Okay, I'm sorry, you know, Iwant to respect you and let you
know that there was somethingwrong and this is what it was.
And, at the same time, the morepeople that knew exactly what I
had gone through and what I wasdoing, those are more people
that would hold me accountableto who I am today.
(38:49):
If there was a possibility ofit happening again.
I would want them to know whatto look for.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I have interviewed other people on my podcast who
are in recovery and they allshare situations where they
would continually go back tofamily members, friends you know
, I'm gonna get clean, I'm gonnaget clean, I'm.
You know, this is it.
This is it no more.
And the family wants so much tobelieve them.
(39:19):
Right, but this is a cycle thatthey've been used to, where
that individual just ends upback in the addiction phase of
things.
What would you say to familymembers, friends, co-workers
that are dealing with watching aloved one struggle, but yet
this family member and everybodyelse is on the verge of giving
(39:42):
up on them because they've seenthis cycle over and over?
What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Oh, that's a tough one, because I do take a step
back and look at this from bothsides.
First of all, without anytrying at all, I look at it from
the side of someone that hasbeen through it.
But then, on the flip side ofthat, I try to look at it from
someone that hasn't been throughit and how I would react.
This is what I would say tothem and this is what I have
(40:10):
said to multiple people that aregoing through that situation.
You got to understand that,whether it is just your normal
opiates or fentanyl, these drugscompletely hijack your brain.
They change everything.
They change your way ofthinking, they change your
survival techniques.
They change everything.
(40:32):
Now fentanyl is so much morestronger and so much more potent
and it does it, you know, in amuch more rapid way.
That person in addiction is notwho you love.
It is pretty much a differentperson.
You're looking at who you know,but that person is not the
person that you know and love.
So, as much as it sucks I knowthat it has to suck it really
(40:53):
does.
If you truly love that person,know that you love the person
that they truly are, and themoment and the time that they
change for real is when theyreally want to change, when they
know themselves can't do it.
They're not going to do it foranyone else.
They're not going to do it fora wife, they're not going to do
(41:15):
it for a kid, they're not goingto do it for their parents,
they're not going to do it fortheir friends.
They're going to do it whenthey know that they can't do
this anymore.
The harsh reality of it issometimes you do have to let
them go because everybody has toworry about their own mental
health and their own self first.
That's the truth of it.
(41:36):
Parents, you worry about yourkids and stuff like that.
But you know in all reality,the very first decision that
every single person makes intheir day is for you.
You decide okay, I open my eyes, now, I'm going to get out of
bed and I'm going to start toget myself together.
You can't effectively helpanyone else if you're not taking
(41:59):
care of yourself.
I do know, without a shadow ofa doubt, that everyone can
change.
I know that 100% and truechange, real change to where the
rest of their life.
They effectively make the rightchoices as far as addiction
goes.
But the harsh reality of it is.
Some people won't.
Some people don't ever get tothat point and I don't know why
(42:25):
I really don't.
It's such a hard battle andit's such a hard thing to
explain to someone.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Amazing message.
Thank you so much for sharing.
No problem, Josh.
Thank you so much for being myguest today on the I Need Blue
podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Thank you, but you are awesome, seriously thank you
.
Thank you for what you do.
The platform that you have andwhat you do with sharing
people's road to recovery in somany different varieties of ways
is truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening.
This is Jennifer Lee with the INeed Blue podcast.
Thank you again to our sponsorfor this episode, the Blue Plaid
Society.
As always, thank you forlistening.
You can find anything andeverything you ever needed to
learn about I Need Blue on mywebsite, wwwineedbluenet.
(43:20):
And remember you are strongerthan you think.
Until next time, thank you,thank you, thank you.
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