November 20, 2023 • 43 mins
Every journey through life's darkest moments can lead to unexpected revelations and personal growth. Embrace the profound wisdom shared by our special guest, John, as he dives deep into overcoming sibling trauma, redefining his relationships, and embracing the healing power of passion. From the critical decisions he made in his adolescence, navigating a midlife crisis, to his life-altering moments that led him on a journey of self-realization, this episode is not only an exploration of pain, purpose, and resilience but also a beacon of light for those on a similar journey.
John's book, 'Man Up Already', and his podcast, 'Man Up Already,' are platforms where he shares valuable insights on authentic, divine manhood and its influence on relationships. Join us for an emotional rollercoaster ride that explores pain, purpose, and resilience and is a beacon of light for those on a similar journey.
Connect with Jen:
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1q8SfA_hEXRJ4EaizlW8Q
Website: https://ineedblue.net/
Purchase my book: Why I Survived: How sharing my story helped me heal from dating abuse, armed robbery, abduction, and other forms of trauma by Jennifer Lee
https://whyisurvived.com/
The background music is written, performed and produced exclusively by Char Good.
https://chargood.com/home
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Welcome back.
This is Jen Lee, creator andhost of I Need Blue podcast.
True Crime to True Life.
As a survivor of arm droperyand abduction, I understand the
(00:25):
trauma and triggers survivorsexperience Knowing this and
through my powerful podcast, Ioffer survivors a safe place to
share their lived experiences.
Survivors need blue to feelthey belong, they are loved,
understood and my favoriteempowered.
(00:47):
Please note I Need Blue doescontain sensitive topics which
could be triggering.
Please seek help if needed andremember you always come first.
I Need Blue episodes can befound on Apple Podcast, spotify
and many listening platforms,including my website,
(01:08):
wwwineedbluenet.
There you will find valuableresources, safety tips, my newly
released book and e-book why ISurvived by Jennifer Lee.
I would like to thank Char Good,the talented violinist who
composed and performed thisopening music.
You can find information aboutChar Good on my website.
(01:32):
As always, thank you forlistening.
Let's begin today's episode.
The aftermath of sibling traumacan have various impacts on the
individuals involved.
My guest, john, will discusshow sibling trauma impacted him
well into adulthood.
(01:53):
During John's healing journey,he experienced different
triggers, a midlife crisis andrepression, to quote John.
Trauma doesn't go away, but itdoesn't have to define you.
John is the published author ofman Up Already.
(02:13):
He strives to educate, equipand empower today's man to man
up and learn how to become theamazing man God created him to
be.
Based on this book, he createdthe man Up Already podcast.
In this year he hosted hisfirst man Up Already conference.
(02:37):
John, thank you for being myspecial guest on the I Need Blue
podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I am so glad that you are here today.
We said in your introduction alot of times what happens in our
childhood leads to differentbehaviors, decisions and our
path in adulthood.
But, as you said, we caninfluence that path.
So I would love to start withyour childhood, and we always
discuss at whatever comfortlevel you want to share.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, okay For me.
You know, my parents weredivorced when I was two.
I've never known what a happy,healthy, you know marriage kind
of looked like when I wasyounger.
I've certainly learned it as anolder, but there was no model
for your typical, you know,family unit.
My dad became this mythical guybecause he lived two hours away
(03:34):
and I would see him every otherweekend.
I grew up, you know, livingwith my mom, and my mom, when I
was five, married again and hehad two kids.
So the dynamic in that home wasvery chaotic and that was life,
(03:55):
and so you think that's kind ofnormal and you deal with it
because there's no other,there's nothing else, right,
like that's just kind of the wayit is.
At 14, my father said to me Iwant you to come live with me
because a boy needs his dad.
Like he knew that the nextphase of you know, if I was
(04:18):
going to be a man and the man hewanted his son to be because
I'm his only son then you knowhe wanted to be kind of
influencing that and I jumped atthat.
So I went to live with my dadat 14 years old and I have this
gifting or blessing of beingable to see things play out Like
(04:41):
you can kind of future castWell, if it's not good now, this
is kind of what it's going tolook like over time.
And so for me decision-makingbecomes easier, because if
you're able to see, hey, this iswhat it's going to look like 10
, 20, 30 years down the road, weshould probably stop doing that
now.
Why did I leave my mom at 14and go live with my dad?
(05:03):
Because I knew that if I stayedin that home I'd either be in
jail or on drugs.
I was very impressionable.
I was very insecure and tryingto please people and so deep
inside myself I knew if I stayhere, the outcome is not going
to be good.
I have a better shot livingwith my dad.
So I was able to make thatdecision at 14.
(05:25):
You know I moved from LongIsland, new York.
I grew up on Long Island, newYork, and then moved to
Connecticut and dealt with allof that High school and then
college, then living and working, getting married.
I'm a musician, so I really didthink I was going to be a rock
star.
You know everybody laughs atthat, but it really is true.
I lived 45 minutes fromManhattan.
(05:46):
I've been playing in bandssince I was 15.
Went to school for music andgot an education degree because,
as it was presented to me by mydrum instructor at the time,
who was very influential, youknow, get a teaching degree so
you don't sleep in your car, atleast you can go get a job.
So I never intended to be ateacher.
I really did think I was goingto be a rock star.
(06:08):
So at 20 years old I joined aband that became the band that I
was in for really six to sevenyears and did a lot of things
with.
So, 23 years old, I graduatecollege and I'm teaching.
So I'm teaching by day and I'mplaying rock star at night.
And I did that for about fouryears.
(06:31):
But when I started teaching,something got unlocked inside of
me Like that's.
It's funny because I was justtalking to our 20 year old son
that you'll hit a moment wheresomething inside of you, when
you find that thing that you'remeant to do something, will
internally happen.
And that happened for me withteaching.
(06:52):
I was a teacher for 10 years asthat developed, you know,
climbing that career path.
At 27, I got married, 28.
We bought a house, 29.
We had our daughter, 32.
I got a master's degree and 33.
We had our son.
So in that six year period Ihad done everything that
(07:12):
everybody kind of tells you todo to be successful.
But at 33, when I really tookstock of my life, I was
miserable.
My wife worked.
I was working 12 to 15 hours aday, six days a week.
Our children were in daycare.
At 33 years old we gaveeverything up, came here to
Florida and naively said youknow, we're two educated people,
(07:33):
we'll find jobs.
And for me there were threenon-negotiables Do I want to
keep my wife home?
I want to keep our children outof daycare and I want to make a
six-figure income, and thosebeing non-negotiable anytime.
Somebody, when we came down here, you know, wanted to hire me,
which was very rare because myresume said teaching and I
didn't want to do that anymore.
My answer was no and that ledme to stepping in and finding
(07:56):
financial services and financialeducation, and it just was an
extension of.
I taught music for 10 years butI was really teaching life with
the kids that I impacted.
Here was my opportunity to workwith adults and teach the
things that were not taught tome but I still could get in
their lives and really, you know, create change and I think
(08:19):
that's what I've learned overtime is I, through my experience
, I love helping people right, Ilove making an impact and
that's my calling, and so I usefinancial services to do that.
I use the podcast or writing abook or speaking.
They're all this ability tojust get in people's lives and
share what I've learned so thatmaybe it'll help them.
(08:42):
You know, grow and maybe notexperience some of what I've
walked.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wow, you've said a lot of insightful things and I
want to unpack it a little.
I did not grow up in a divorcedfamily, but I am divorced and I
know for me, being a middlechild in my home, you kind of
have to find your niche right,because you're not the oldest,
you're not the youngest, you'renot the only boy.
How did you find your niche ina blended family?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I didn't.
Well, that's not true.
I didn't for a very long timeuntil I found the drums and that
was my life ring.
It was eighth grade when I gotmy first drum set and nobody in
the house did that.
Everybody was stronger, better.
(09:33):
People would look at me likeare you adopted?
Like I was just this kind ofoutcast and drumming was the
thing it really was.
It was that thing.
I could grab, hold you and go.
This I can do and nobody elsedoes.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You just stated that you were kind of looked at as
though you were you adopted, orhow did you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
The kid I was.
I'll paint you a picture.
My dad would pick us up on aFriday.
We would spend two hours in thecar, get to his place, go to
sleep on a Friday night, wake upon a Saturdays were glorious at
my dad's house because you hadthe whole day.
You were in this essentiallyanother world, a much safer,
(10:20):
more accepting environment,because it went from this
blended family to me and mysister.
My sister and I would connecton a very different level when
it was just us at my dad's andthat dynamic would change once
we went back to my mom's houseand you know so, Saturdays were
(10:42):
amazing, and then Sundays, andthen we got back in the car and
went home and I would throw upas soon as I walked through the
door.
My mother was always like howam I supposed to take the fact
that every time you come home tome you throw up?
And I didn't know it back then,it's car sickness.
It was 100% the stress ofknowing I had to go back into
(11:02):
that world until I saw my dadagain.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Wow, so you were literally having physical
reactions just at the thought ofhaving to go back there.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's so sad to hear .
So, talking about your dad, canyou share one of your most
memorable experiences?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, it's funny that you asked that on today of all
days, and it's crazy becauseyesterday I had to be reminded.
Today is the 15th yearanniversary of my dad passing.
He passed today 15 years agoand, for whatever reason, every
year I say I'm not going to doit and it just happens.
I block this day out until Ihave to be reminded by somebody
(11:47):
else that it is actually thisday.
Gosh memories with my dad,there are so many.
When I was a kid I remember one.
It was quite funny.
My dad and I went campingbecause I was in like Boy Scouts
or whatever, and so he camecamping with me and my dad
smoked and he had this, what Iwould imagine is a really,
really expensive lighter.
He dropped it.
(12:08):
We were in the cabin and hedropped it through the slat.
It was a slat floor andliterally he this lighter was so
important and he lifted up thecabin and had me crawl under to
retrieve the lighter.
Funny stuff like that he wasnotorious for.
(12:30):
Just you know, I wrote aboutthis one in my book that people
always comment on, which isquite comical not comical at the
time, but it is a memory thatlives in infamy that me and my
sister share constantly.
My dad was a guy that was goingto do what he wanted to do,
(12:50):
period.
If he wanted to do it, it wasgoing to get done.
So he had to entertain to.
You know, my dad was in his 20sand 30s when he would pick us
up, so he had to entertain us.
You went to the movies and itwasn't like today where you know
if you're a Gen X or you knowhow important movies were in the
70s and the 80s.
He decides he's going to seeJaws.
(13:11):
So he takes his kids.
He tells this is what he saysif it gets scary, go under the
seat.
So my sister spent pretty muchmost of that movie under the
seat.
Me in my five year old bodysits and watches this movie and
(13:32):
the nightmares from that live on.
I mean, you know, like my, Ihave a fascination with great
white sharks.
Right, it's fear andfascination because of just that
moment.
Jaws to this day is in my topfive of greatest movies of all
time.
But yeah, he's got the crap outof me with that move.
(13:55):
We laugh about that one all thetime.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I don't know that.
I have ever seen that moviefrom beginning to end.
To be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
What makes that movie ?
There's two things that makethat movie what it is right.
If you look at it in today'scontext it's lost, right.
But back then the score.
Because it's John Williams who?
John Williams is America'streasure when it comes to music.
The score is unreal.
(14:26):
So the score makes that moviebecause the music implies the
shark in so much of that movie,because the story of that movie
they couldn't get the shark towork, so most of that movie is
implying the shark and showing ashark attack without ever
showing the shark.
So there's so much left to yourimagination in that movie until
(14:51):
the shark actually shows up.
That makes that movie what itis, with a score that's just
unbelievable.
It is a phenomenal movie.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Well, now I'm curious .
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Now you got to go see it.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, it'll be like Jen.
Did you see draws yet?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That's one of my all time favorites.
Not that we have to go on thistangent, but there is a scene
where cinematography and musicline up in such a way that
you're just in awe.
And it's a brief moment.
Steven Spielberg got his finest.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And I would probably miss that, but with you, with
your passion and your knowledgeof music, you probably have the
greatest appreciation for thatmoment.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, you know, I'm so gladthat we talked about this.
It's a great way to rememberyour dad, and so I feel very
(15:46):
honored to have this moment withyou.
Thank you, and thank you forsharing that.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
What were some lessons that you took away from
him that maybe you teach yourkids today?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Let me say this my dad was mythical for me, right?
So anytime you put a person upto that height, they're going to
fall.
And in my 20s, in my ownperception, he fell and I had to
deal with that for most of my20s and my 30s.
(16:25):
Took a long time for me toreconcile who my dad was as a
person versus my father.
Yeah, it's inevitable, right,we put our parents on pedestals
and then, when we see them forwho they truly are, sometimes we
don't have the wisdom and thematurity to process really what
(16:45):
that is.
Until later.
Right In high school, I camewith C's and my dad looked at my
report card and he goes what'sthis?
And I said what it's?
C's Look, average.
I'm not failing, right, I knowit's not an A, but I'm kind of
in the middle.
And he said you're not averageand don't bring that home.
(17:06):
And that just stuck in me.
Somebody else can be average,but that's not you.
Only and I'm passionate aboutthe power that fathers have with
sons only masculine can bestowthat to masculine, like that is
a right, a passage kind of deal.
(17:26):
It was like I'm setting thetone and the lesson of where,
who you are and how you're goingto go.
It was like one of thosemoments that just stuck with me.
And then I go to college and Ido the same thing and I come
home and he looks at the gradesand he goes if you bring that
home again, I'm not paying forit.
And if I'm not paying for itand you're no longer going to
(17:47):
school, you can't live here.
So it was like, okay, Iprobably need to get my act
together.
When our kids were growing up, Iwould ask my kids who are you?
And they'd say I'm a champion.
And I would say what do puristsdo?
And they would say we get thejob done.
Because what my fatherinstilled in me is the power of
(18:07):
the name on the back of thejersey.
Right, if purists is your lastname, that stands for something.
It's not average, it's do yourbest.
It's not about being the best,it's about doing your best.
And if you give your all,that's the only thing that
really really, at the end of theday, matters, and I gleaned
(18:29):
from that how importantintegrity really really is.
One thing I could say about myfather being the man that he was
and if he was going to do whathe wanted to do, he was going to
do it and he had the integrityto do what he said he was going
to do.
That was a big thing and Iprobably carried that most of
(18:49):
all Like.
Integrity and character for meare incredibly, incredibly
important and we can screw up,but then in the screw up have
the integrity to own up to itand fix it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
When you talked about how children put their parents
on a pedestal.
But the time comes when theyrealize okay, so maybe they're
not perfect.
What advice would you give theparent?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, having been a parent that has fallen and had
my kids see me, I think I was alittle bit more confident and
had my kids see it.
Be authentic.
I've say a lot.
Somebody's always watching.
If we think that nobody'swatching, somebody is always
watching.
Maybe your kids, maybe yourspouse, maybe online.
(19:40):
Somebody's always watching whatit is that we do.
And so be authentic.
If we screw up, own up to itand then show what it looks like
to be better Versus, well,that's just the way I am and
that's a cop out.
Don't do that.
Constructively use if you fallin your kids eyes, find out why,
(20:03):
and then how do you work to bebetter than that?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So you just said that you have fallen.
Perhaps that goes back to whatwe talked about in the
introduction with the midlifecrisis.
Is that something you'recomfortable talking about?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Well, we can talk about it.
But there's some things thatmaybe I won't give details on.
But I'm very transparent aboutwhat happened to me, without
playing victim on it.
It's why I talk about traumathe way I do is there's so many
things that are running ourprogram without us consciously
(20:44):
realizing what it is.
Unfortunately, a lot of thetimes, it takes an implosion or
some kind of event, some painfulevent, right, but pain has
purpose.
Pain can reveal, there'ssomething going on here that's
underneath, right.
So often, jen, we focus on theevent and we're conditioned to
(21:06):
respond to the event.
I understand, right, the eventsare emotional, but if we can
get past the emotional pain andreally look at, well, why
Because if I can really dealwith why, I'm not going to
experience the emotional painagain, if I solve the reason
behind what happened and that'swhat really happened for me is I
(21:31):
did.
I had a full-on implosion at theend of 2019.
It almost destroyed my marriage, certainly compromised my
character, and here I am a guywriting about integrity and
authenticity and all that.
So it was almost like therewere two things happening.
There was this conscious sideof me that understood this is
the model and this is what yourepresent and this is what you
(21:52):
believe.
But underneath that was justridiculous pain, and that pain
was all the way back from mychildhood.
That was just repressed, shoveddown.
That started what happened forme.
I always tell this story.
It was all shoved down from thetime I was a child, all the way
(22:13):
through adulthood.
So I'm now 47 years old and Ihave been shoving this crap down
to try to ignore it, put itaway, right, and I would.
Internally, there was thisconstant battle of what is this
demon and that's what it alwaysfelt like was this dark side to
John that was always lurking inthe shadows.
(22:35):
And that dark side was my painand my trauma not really being
dealt with.
And at 47, I went to somethingcalled Band of Brothers.
So I'm extremely faith-filled.
Band of Brothers is based onthe book Wild at Heart, which
Wild at Heart changed my life.
I read that in 2003.
(22:57):
And so I went to this event inColorado and when my dad died
when I was 38, because of mysurvival instincts, I literally
shut off my emotions when itcame to painful events.
It was like the term I used wascauterized right, and I'm a big
Star Wars fan.
(23:18):
It was like somebody took alightsaber right, literally
sliced through my emotions andcauterized them in that instant.
And so if somebody died, Iwould have no feeling, none.
If bad things happened, I wouldjust be like, excuse my
language, shit happens, peopledie, people get hurt.
Because I just experiencedsomething terrible right, and so
my reaction was no feeling.
(23:39):
And along the way I would belike why gosh, why?
There's got to be somethingwrong with me.
I feel nothing.
And that went on for nine yearsuntil in the mountains of
Colorado.
I'm at this event and JohnEldridge who was leading the
event, we were praying, andthere's a section in that event
(23:59):
called the wound, and the woundwas losing my dad.
But that was so much deeperthan that.
I'm in a moment where I'm infight or flight, like I'm
literally hunched over, and I'mfacing this wound.
I am deciding whether or notI'm going to run out of the room
and avoid this or I'm going toreally give it up to God.
(24:21):
And I understand what beingwash clean really feels like,
because in that moment I wasspiritually wash clean of that
pain of losing my father.
And so I opened up in thatweekend.
All of a sudden, my emotionswere turned back on and I came
(24:43):
out of that in 2017, not in ahealthy way.
The purpose or the intent washealthy, but I didn't go about
it in a healthy way becausethere is a it's my father, right
it living in me.
Well, if we're going to do it,we're going to do it.
You know, I started to push theboundaries of my life what am I
(25:07):
not happy with?
And I started, instead of beinggentle and kind and asking
questions, I just was.
Now my emotions are back andI'm pushing because I'm like a
bull in a china shop, like I'mjust pushing and forcing.
And I did it in my marriage, Idid it in my career, I did it in
everything, and what was comingback was not things that I
(25:31):
wanted to see or wanted to hear,and I just kept pushing, kind
of like I'm going to force it toa breaking point and see what
comes as a result of that.
That's not healthy.
It's certainly not kind.
I was chaos and that chaosstarted slow, right.
(25:52):
A book came out of that and Ilove my book.
I reread my book post traumaand I really do stand because
all of it is is true.
The book was kind of like me ina way, sharing what I had been
through and what I learned andwhat I was trying to get to, but
how I was actually going aboutit was relentless until I broke
(26:17):
and almost broke my marriage.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And how did you get out of that?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
There's a great book out there called Extreme
Ownership, and what they talkabout in that book is it's a
seal philosophy, a Navy sealphilosophy that, no matter
what's happening at your fault,and on December 12, 2019, my
wife and I are sitting on thecouch deciding on whether or not
we're going to stay married.
And when you're sitting thereand you're going, how did we get
(26:46):
here?
I love you and you love me.
How could we be here?
And because we both read thatbook and had done so much
personal development over 18 or16 years, at the time we were
able to say all right, it take,two of us created this, it's not
one person.
So we're going to draw a lineand our marriage is going to be
(27:10):
defined by what we do next,because if we try to deal with
the past, we'll lose.
We're going to take ExtremeOwnership that the two of us
created, everything that led ushere.
We're going to draw a line andeverything we do from this
moment forward is what's goingto matter.
And I got therapy and startedseeking out mentors and coaches
(27:32):
and I attacked my weakness thesame way I attacked my awareness
.
Nothing is off limits.
I'm going to dive as far as Ineed and I'm still doing it.
Every time something shows up,I'm like, okay, what is that?
Why?
How is it controlling me?
Like, I don't go on socialmedia.
Facebook, instagram is managednow by others, so you'll find me
(27:56):
on those things, but I don'teven have the passwords because
they trigger me and I'm awareenough to go.
That's not really working forme, it's not good for my
marriage, it's just not good allthe way around, because there
are things on there that dotrigger me.
Then those things won't go away.
They're buried deep in mypsyche.
(28:17):
So why even entertain?
And it's funny because I'vebeen social media free since, I
think, march, and I don't missit at all, as a matter of fact,
the clarity that it brings tonot be on.
There is something I'm incredit I speak, and when I do
conferences or when I'm asked tospeak, especially with men, I
talk about what social media isdoing to erode us and the most
(28:40):
important relationships we have.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I agree with that, if it wasn't for my podcast.
Honestly, I'm about over socialmedia.
It's exhausting.
There are times where I had tounfollow things.
I understand that.
So I think it's great that youtook that step, that you
recognize this is not healthy.
I don't want to be a part ofthis.
And you stopped in regards toyour marriage or relationship,
(29:05):
was you drew that line and thenyou focus on what are we gonna
do moving forward?
You know, think about where youwant to be and how you get
there.
You know the little steps at atime.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I wanna speak to that First.
I wanna give credit wherecredit's due.
When we drew that line, I gotoff of Facebook in 2019, and I
don't think I turned it back onuntil like 2021.
I was off.
There was no wisdom for me whenit came to social media.
My wife came to me this yearand said you have a choice to
(29:41):
make get off social media or,essentially, you're gonna lose
me.
And I went well, that's afreaking no-brainer, like I
don't need this.
And so what's interesting aboutthat moment is I'm sitting
there going.
Clearly, I'm not seeingsomething, and this is really
important in the context ofrelationships.
(30:02):
If it's not working for my wifeon that level, then get rid of
it.
It's so not worth the pain it'scausing my spouse right, and I
think so many people hold ontotheir need to be right, or this
is mine.
You're gonna have to adjust tome.
No, we're talking about socialmedia and it's crap anyway.
(30:25):
So it was a no-brainer for me,but she had the.
This is why partnership is soimportant.
She knew what lie on the otherside of for me being off it, so
she is responsible for that andI thank her.
I keep thanking her.
I'm like I can't thank youenough for making that demand,
(30:47):
because I'm so much better of aperson not being on there when
we drew the line.
What people miss is we've got todeal with the past, like the
past created the problem andthere's so many things in there
that we those things are gonnacome up.
They haven't gone away.
But when you draw the line andyou say this forward and we
(31:09):
start working, you're able todeal with the past in little
bits and pieces as they presentthemselves Versus.
All I saw was this mess thatour marriage had become.
It's like a ball of knots.
If you try to pull one, there'sno way right, because one leads
to another and so you go.
Well, this happened because ofthis, and what about this?
(31:30):
And the next thing, you know,your entire conversation is
about all the crap that happenedto create where you're at.
But if you just make a decisionthat we're gonna figure it out
and we're gonna get betterlittle by little, all of those
old knots and the things thatagain the knot is the symptom
what's the cause?
The cause will show up again.
But now you have the clarity todeal with it one at a time,
(31:56):
little by little, with acommitment to each other that
we're going to move forward, andthat's where I think grace and
forgiveness really come in.
I know what real grace lookslike and it has changed me so
much that whenever people are intrauma or in crisis or they do
(32:16):
the things that they do becausewe as human beings are, we do
silly things.
I used to be this judgmentalguy.
Because people who arejudgmental are typically they're
judging themselves inside and,having been given the grace that
I have been given, I literallylook and go.
Who am I to have any kind ofopinion?
(32:40):
We're all walking through ourown trauma.
We're all walking through ourown stuff.
How can I be empathetic andlisten and maybe share some
wisdom, versus being judgmentaland casting them aside?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Those are lessons that we all can be reminded of.
That's probably a good way toput that and so your journey has
led to you writing a book,which you kind of mentioned
earlier, and your podcast.
So can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Sure.
So the book man Up Already isme talking to men, though I mean
women get a lot out of it.
But I'm talking to men becauseI fully, 100% believe that we
are all divinely created and weare divinely created for purpose
and there is a purpose behindmanhood.
In a society today that isattacking it like crazy.
(33:33):
But when you look at underneath, I truly believe that men and
women crave what manhoodauthentic, divine manhood brings
to relationships and to society, because when you remove it, it
is chaos.
So man Up Already is really metalking to men, saying you are
(33:57):
created by design for a purpose.
Your influence is incrediblyimportant, and the second half
of the book is built on what Icall the four pillars that if
you stand on these four pillars,you're gonna lead a successful
life.
And those four pillars reallywere inspired by my dad.
They are integrity, humility,authenticity and morality.
(34:21):
Do what you say you're going todo.
That's integrity.
Humility is it's not about you.
Authenticity is be uniquely you.
My message is there never hasbeen, nor will there ever be you
Ever right.
You are as only one, you, Jen.
There's only one me and anybodylistening.
You are uniquely and divinelycreated.
(34:43):
So often we try to be somebodyelse, be you and be proud of who
you are, and then morality isdo the right thing.
So that's the book, and inthere are exercises that men or
women can do to really kind ofwrestle with those questions.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
So tell our listeners where they can find your book.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You can go to manupalreadycom.
There's a lot of cool thingshappening there.
The book is there.
We have the entire visual videoand audio of the man Up Already
Growth Conference which we didin June, so all speakers are
there.
If you have a man in your life,I highly recommend that those
guys brought such wisdom.
(35:23):
I'm excited to say thatFebruary 24th of 2024 is the
next man Up Already GrowthConference in Port St Lucie, so
it was such a good event thatwe're going to do another one,
so I'm pumped about that.
That literally just happenedthis week.
It's not a Christian men'sconference.
(35:43):
It is a men's conference biredby God to remind men of who they
are, and I think those two getvery blurred and what is often
forgotten is how fierce Jesuswas, how courageous, fierce he
(36:05):
did press the boundaries of theestablishment.
I mean, that was no timid life.
When men are around men and youget them comfortable which
typically you got to get themout you'll see real fellowship
around a fireplace aftersomething has been done, and so
the man Up Already GrowthConference is kind of like we're
(36:26):
going to strip it down, we'regoing to get you in a room and
we're going to freaking remindyou who you are and a four
letter word comes out of mymouth, then so be it.
We want men walking out ofthere going.
Number one I really need tothink about what I'm thinking
about.
But number two I was createdfor such a grand purpose.
(36:47):
How do I start really steppinginto that?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I love that.
I want every man to be able tofeel that as well.
Were you called to do that inyour journey?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah.
So the book was literally likewalking with God from thought to
print.
It was four months, it flew outof me.
It was the most of it waswritten in a weekend and I had
heard stories of people doingthat, but it really, it really
did happen.
And then the podcast was a yearlater.
(37:20):
I was doing this crazy fitnesschallenge and at the end of it I
was like going live during apart of it and people were
paying attention and I would dothis thing called the ride along
, which I do on LinkedIn you seea lot or even on all my social
media.
I still do it.
It's kind of like this wackyway of doing a podcast.
I would go get coffee andpeople were like great message
(37:40):
this morning.
And I'm like you're watchingthat, you know.
Like people were coming to me,like people who I respected, who
I saw maybe as just higher,like in my financial business,
were like keep doing what you'redoing, I'm paying attention,
you taught me something today.
I'm like, wow, this is just mesharing the journey.
So that's how the podcasthappened.
And then the growth conference.
The idea of it came last yearbecause at that time I was going
(38:03):
to do some coaching with menand I was meeting with some men
who are coaches and I have myown coach and I just was very
clear I'm not ready for that.
But I was meeting with one ofthem, my friend Eric, and God
very clearly said you're goingto get men in a room and bring
men like Eric to the men.
That's what I want you to do.
(38:23):
It was very clear.
And finally I was like all right, god, you know, it's kind of
like when God tells you to do it, you do it, and so that's how
that was born and that's what wedid.
What happened at the end ofthat event is, for a lot of men
in their lights had come on, andone of them came to me and he
said one of the things that Italk about is the power of your
posse, how important it is.
(38:44):
You know why your circlematters.
And he came to me after and hejust looked at me and he goes I
don't know how to do that, Idon't know how to build that
circle.
So his name is Brandon.
It just stuck with me the lookon Brandon's face of please
don't leave me like this.
I probably need to get one onone with these guys, and so,
(39:07):
thankfully, brandon hit me backand now I'm coaching him one on
one.
So I've opened myself up now toworking with men hands on,
which I'm really enjoying.
So I have two guys that I workwith.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I said to my son yesterday because he's you know,
it's like he's a junior incollege what is he planning on
doing?
And so we were just talkingabout it and I said you know, if
I could make life a lot easierfor you, I'll say this just take
the next logical step.
The next logical step willpresent itself.
It always does the end at theend of the hall on any hotel
(39:41):
floor.
You don't see all of the doors.
You see the corridor.
The doors present themselves asyou move closer to them and
life is really like that.
The next door opens when youtake the next logical step
towards them.
So often we want to dictate theparameters using information
from the past, instead of justno, I'm just going to step.
(40:03):
And really the blessing thathappens is because I saw it with
the conference by you takingthe step and doing something
that is beyond your own abilityto pull off, you ignite
something and other people togive them the opportunity to
participate.
And I could I don't know.
This is where I could getreally emotional.
You change lives by doing that,because other people step in
(40:25):
answering their own calling.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
That is special.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
And then you really go do something special.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I'm so glad that you have found your journey and I'm
so glad that I found you and Iget to hear about your journey.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
You're welcome and I'm excited that we can share
this with the world as well.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
You know it's funny because I I think it was on a
podcast that I had did earlierthat your pain can have purpose.
That's a theme that has kind ofcome up in the last couple of
weeks is your pain can havepurpose right, like you can take
the trauma or the pain or thepainful moments and, if you use
(41:05):
them properly, I think yourespect what you've gone through
right.
So oftentimes you know we canfall victim and disrespect what
we went through, especially whenI meet others who have been
through traumatic events orexperienced things in life of
showing respect to to whatthey've been through but also
(41:26):
inspiring their own respect.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Pain can have purpose .
I mean because that is just aphenomenal statement when you
sit back and you really thinkabout that.
I'm definitely going to.
I want to investigate thatbecause I'm curious.
Curiosity is a good thing,right?
Is there anything you want toadd before I do my closing?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
No, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Thank you so much for being my guest today.
I love that you just reiteratedagain that pain can have
purpose Very powerful message.
So again thank you for being myguest on the I Need Blue
podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Absolutely Anytime.
This is Jen Lee with the I NeedBlue podcast.
You can find all of my episodesand everything about I Need
Blue on wwwineedbluenet.
Again, thank you for listeningand remember you are stronger
than you think.
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Welcome back.
This is Jen Lee, creator andhost of I Need Blue podcast.
True Crime to True Life.
As a survivor of arm droperyand abduction, I understand the
(00:25):
trauma and triggers survivorsexperience Knowing this and
through my powerful podcast, Ioffer survivors a safe place to
share their lived experiences.
Survivors need blue to feelthey belong, they are loved,
understood and my favoriteempowered.
(00:47):
Please note I Need Blue doescontain sensitive topics which
could be triggering.
Please seek help if needed andremember you always come first.
I Need Blue episodes can befound on Apple Podcast, spotify
and many listening platforms,including my website,
(01:08):
wwwineedbluenet.
There you will find valuableresources, safety tips, my newly
released book and e-book why ISurvived by Jennifer Lee.
I would like to thank Char Good,the talented violinist who
composed and performed thisopening music.
You can find information aboutChar Good on my website.
(01:32):
As always, thank you forlistening.
Let's begin today's episode.
The aftermath of sibling traumacan have various impacts on the
individuals involved.
My guest, john, will discusshow sibling trauma impacted him
well into adulthood.
(01:53):
During John's healing journey,he experienced different
triggers, a midlife crisis andrepression, to quote John.
Trauma doesn't go away, but itdoesn't have to define you.
John is the published author ofman Up Already.
(02:13):
He strives to educate, equipand empower today's man to man
up and learn how to become theamazing man God created him to
be.
Based on this book, he createdthe man Up Already podcast.
In this year he hosted hisfirst man Up Already conference.
(02:37):
John, thank you for being myspecial guest on the I Need Blue
podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I am so glad that you are here today.
We said in your introduction alot of times what happens in our
childhood leads to differentbehaviors, decisions and our
path in adulthood.
But, as you said, we caninfluence that path.
So I would love to start withyour childhood, and we always
discuss at whatever comfortlevel you want to share.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, okay For me.
You know, my parents weredivorced when I was two.
I've never known what a happy,healthy, you know marriage kind
of looked like when I wasyounger.
I've certainly learned it as anolder, but there was no model
for your typical, you know,family unit.
My dad became this mythical guybecause he lived two hours away
(03:34):
and I would see him every otherweekend.
I grew up, you know, livingwith my mom, and my mom, when I
was five, married again and hehad two kids.
So the dynamic in that home wasvery chaotic and that was life,
(03:55):
and so you think that's kind ofnormal and you deal with it
because there's no other,there's nothing else, right,
like that's just kind of the wayit is.
At 14, my father said to me Iwant you to come live with me
because a boy needs his dad.
Like he knew that the nextphase of you know, if I was
(04:18):
going to be a man and the man hewanted his son to be because
I'm his only son then you knowhe wanted to be kind of
influencing that and I jumped atthat.
So I went to live with my dadat 14 years old and I have this
gifting or blessing of beingable to see things play out Like
(04:41):
you can kind of future castWell, if it's not good now, this
is kind of what it's going tolook like over time.
And so for me decision-makingbecomes easier, because if
you're able to see, hey, this iswhat it's going to look like 10
, 20, 30 years down the road, weshould probably stop doing that
now.
Why did I leave my mom at 14and go live with my dad?
(05:03):
Because I knew that if I stayedin that home I'd either be in
jail or on drugs.
I was very impressionable.
I was very insecure and tryingto please people and so deep
inside myself I knew if I stayhere, the outcome is not going
to be good.
I have a better shot livingwith my dad.
So I was able to make thatdecision at 14.
(05:25):
You know I moved from LongIsland, new York.
I grew up on Long Island, newYork, and then moved to
Connecticut and dealt with allof that High school and then
college, then living and working, getting married.
I'm a musician, so I really didthink I was going to be a rock
star.
You know everybody laughs atthat, but it really is true.
I lived 45 minutes fromManhattan.
(05:46):
I've been playing in bandssince I was 15.
Went to school for music andgot an education degree because,
as it was presented to me by mydrum instructor at the time,
who was very influential, youknow, get a teaching degree so
you don't sleep in your car, atleast you can go get a job.
So I never intended to be ateacher.
I really did think I was goingto be a rock star.
(06:08):
So at 20 years old I joined aband that became the band that I
was in for really six to sevenyears and did a lot of things
with.
So, 23 years old, I graduatecollege and I'm teaching.
So I'm teaching by day and I'mplaying rock star at night.
And I did that for about fouryears.
(06:31):
But when I started teaching,something got unlocked inside of
me Like that's.
It's funny because I was justtalking to our 20 year old son
that you'll hit a moment wheresomething inside of you, when
you find that thing that you'remeant to do something, will
internally happen.
And that happened for me withteaching.
(06:52):
I was a teacher for 10 years asthat developed, you know,
climbing that career path.
At 27, I got married, 28.
We bought a house, 29.
We had our daughter, 32.
I got a master's degree and 33.
We had our son.
So in that six year period Ihad done everything that
(07:12):
everybody kind of tells you todo to be successful.
But at 33, when I really tookstock of my life, I was
miserable.
My wife worked.
I was working 12 to 15 hours aday, six days a week.
Our children were in daycare.
At 33 years old we gaveeverything up, came here to
Florida and naively said youknow, we're two educated people,
(07:33):
we'll find jobs.
And for me there were threenon-negotiables Do I want to
keep my wife home?
I want to keep our children outof daycare and I want to make a
six-figure income, and thosebeing non-negotiable anytime.
Somebody, when we came down here, you know, wanted to hire me,
which was very rare because myresume said teaching and I
didn't want to do that anymore.
My answer was no and that ledme to stepping in and finding
(07:56):
financial services and financialeducation, and it just was an
extension of.
I taught music for 10 years butI was really teaching life with
the kids that I impacted.
Here was my opportunity to workwith adults and teach the
things that were not taught tome but I still could get in
their lives and really, you know, create change and I think
(08:19):
that's what I've learned overtime is I, through my experience
, I love helping people right, Ilove making an impact and
that's my calling, and so I usefinancial services to do that.
I use the podcast or writing abook or speaking.
They're all this ability tojust get in people's lives and
share what I've learned so thatmaybe it'll help them.
(08:42):
You know, grow and maybe notexperience some of what I've
walked.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wow, you've said a lot of insightful things and I
want to unpack it a little.
I did not grow up in a divorcedfamily, but I am divorced and I
know for me, being a middlechild in my home, you kind of
have to find your niche right,because you're not the oldest,
you're not the youngest, you'renot the only boy.
How did you find your niche ina blended family?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I didn't.
Well, that's not true.
I didn't for a very long timeuntil I found the drums and that
was my life ring.
It was eighth grade when I gotmy first drum set and nobody in
the house did that.
Everybody was stronger, better.
(09:33):
People would look at me likeare you adopted?
Like I was just this kind ofoutcast and drumming was the
thing it really was.
It was that thing.
I could grab, hold you and go.
This I can do and nobody elsedoes.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
You just stated that you were kind of looked at as
though you were you adopted, orhow did you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
The kid I was.
I'll paint you a picture.
My dad would pick us up on aFriday.
We would spend two hours in thecar, get to his place, go to
sleep on a Friday night, wake upon a Saturdays were glorious at
my dad's house because you hadthe whole day.
You were in this essentiallyanother world, a much safer,
(10:20):
more accepting environment,because it went from this
blended family to me and mysister.
My sister and I would connecton a very different level when
it was just us at my dad's andthat dynamic would change once
we went back to my mom's houseand you know so, Saturdays were
(10:42):
amazing, and then Sundays, andthen we got back in the car and
went home and I would throw upas soon as I walked through the
door.
My mother was always like howam I supposed to take the fact
that every time you come home tome you throw up?
And I didn't know it back then,it's car sickness.
It was 100% the stress ofknowing I had to go back into
(11:02):
that world until I saw my dadagain.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Wow, so you were literally having physical
reactions just at the thought ofhaving to go back there.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's so sad to hear .
So, talking about your dad, canyou share one of your most
memorable experiences?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, it's funny that you asked that on today of all
days, and it's crazy becauseyesterday I had to be reminded.
Today is the 15th yearanniversary of my dad passing.
He passed today 15 years agoand, for whatever reason, every
year I say I'm not going to doit and it just happens.
I block this day out until Ihave to be reminded by somebody
(11:47):
else that it is actually thisday.
Gosh memories with my dad,there are so many.
When I was a kid I remember one.
It was quite funny.
My dad and I went campingbecause I was in like Boy Scouts
or whatever, and so he camecamping with me and my dad
smoked and he had this, what Iwould imagine is a really,
really expensive lighter.
He dropped it.
(12:08):
We were in the cabin and hedropped it through the slat.
It was a slat floor andliterally he this lighter was so
important and he lifted up thecabin and had me crawl under to
retrieve the lighter.
Funny stuff like that he wasnotorious for.
(12:30):
Just you know, I wrote aboutthis one in my book that people
always comment on, which isquite comical not comical at the
time, but it is a memory thatlives in infamy that me and my
sister share constantly.
My dad was a guy that was goingto do what he wanted to do,
(12:50):
period.
If he wanted to do it, it wasgoing to get done.
So he had to entertain to.
You know, my dad was in his 20sand 30s when he would pick us
up, so he had to entertain us.
You went to the movies and itwasn't like today where you know
if you're a Gen X or you knowhow important movies were in the
70s and the 80s.
He decides he's going to seeJaws.
(13:11):
So he takes his kids.
He tells this is what he saysif it gets scary, go under the
seat.
So my sister spent pretty muchmost of that movie under the
seat.
Me in my five year old bodysits and watches this movie and
(13:32):
the nightmares from that live on.
I mean, you know, like my, Ihave a fascination with great
white sharks.
Right, it's fear andfascination because of just that
moment.
Jaws to this day is in my topfive of greatest movies of all
time.
But yeah, he's got the crap outof me with that move.
(13:55):
We laugh about that one all thetime.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
I don't know that.
I have ever seen that moviefrom beginning to end.
To be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
What makes that movie ?
There's two things that makethat movie what it is right.
If you look at it in today'scontext it's lost, right.
But back then the score.
Because it's John Williams who?
John Williams is America'streasure when it comes to music.
The score is unreal.
(14:26):
So the score makes that moviebecause the music implies the
shark in so much of that movie,because the story of that movie
they couldn't get the shark towork, so most of that movie is
implying the shark and showing ashark attack without ever
showing the shark.
So there's so much left to yourimagination in that movie until
(14:51):
the shark actually shows up.
That makes that movie what itis, with a score that's just
unbelievable.
It is a phenomenal movie.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Well, now I'm curious .
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Now you got to go see it.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, it'll be like Jen.
Did you see draws yet?
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That's one of my all time favorites.
Not that we have to go on thistangent, but there is a scene
where cinematography and musicline up in such a way that
you're just in awe.
And it's a brief moment.
Steven Spielberg got his finest.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And I would probably miss that, but with you, with
your passion and your knowledgeof music, you probably have the
greatest appreciation for thatmoment.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, you know, I'm so gladthat we talked about this.
It's a great way to rememberyour dad, and so I feel very
(15:46):
honored to have this moment withyou.
Thank you, and thank you forsharing that.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
What were some lessons that you took away from
him that maybe you teach yourkids today?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Let me say this my dad was mythical for me, right?
So anytime you put a person upto that height, they're going to
fall.
And in my 20s, in my ownperception, he fell and I had to
deal with that for most of my20s and my 30s.
(16:25):
Took a long time for me toreconcile who my dad was as a
person versus my father.
Yeah, it's inevitable, right,we put our parents on pedestals
and then, when we see them forwho they truly are, sometimes we
don't have the wisdom and thematurity to process really what
(16:45):
that is.
Until later.
Right In high school, I camewith C's and my dad looked at my
report card and he goes what'sthis?
And I said what it's?
C's Look, average.
I'm not failing, right, I knowit's not an A, but I'm kind of
in the middle.
And he said you're not averageand don't bring that home.
(17:06):
And that just stuck in me.
Somebody else can be average,but that's not you.
Only and I'm passionate aboutthe power that fathers have with
sons only masculine can bestowthat to masculine, like that is
a right, a passage kind of deal.
(17:26):
It was like I'm setting thetone and the lesson of where,
who you are and how you're goingto go.
It was like one of thosemoments that just stuck with me.
And then I go to college and Ido the same thing and I come
home and he looks at the gradesand he goes if you bring that
home again, I'm not paying forit.
And if I'm not paying for itand you're no longer going to
(17:47):
school, you can't live here.
So it was like, okay, Iprobably need to get my act
together.
When our kids were growing up, Iwould ask my kids who are you?
And they'd say I'm a champion.
And I would say what do puristsdo?
And they would say we get thejob done.
Because what my fatherinstilled in me is the power of
(18:07):
the name on the back of thejersey.
Right, if purists is your lastname, that stands for something.
It's not average, it's do yourbest.
It's not about being the best,it's about doing your best.
And if you give your all,that's the only thing that
really really, at the end of theday, matters, and I gleaned
(18:29):
from that how importantintegrity really really is.
One thing I could say about myfather being the man that he was
and if he was going to do whathe wanted to do, he was going to
do it and he had the integrityto do what he said he was going
to do.
That was a big thing and Iprobably carried that most of
(18:49):
all Like.
Integrity and character for meare incredibly, incredibly
important and we can screw up,but then in the screw up have
the integrity to own up to itand fix it Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
When you talked about how children put their parents
on a pedestal.
But the time comes when theyrealize okay, so maybe they're
not perfect.
What advice would you give theparent?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, having been a parent that has fallen and had
my kids see me, I think I was alittle bit more confident and
had my kids see it.
Be authentic.
I've say a lot.
Somebody's always watching.
If we think that nobody'swatching, somebody is always
watching.
Maybe your kids, maybe yourspouse, maybe online.
(19:40):
Somebody's always watching whatit is that we do.
And so be authentic.
If we screw up, own up to itand then show what it looks like
to be better Versus, well,that's just the way I am and
that's a cop out.
Don't do that.
Constructively use if you fallin your kids eyes, find out why,
(20:03):
and then how do you work to bebetter than that?
Speaker 1 (20:09):
So you just said that you have fallen.
Perhaps that goes back to whatwe talked about in the
introduction with the midlifecrisis.
Is that something you'recomfortable talking about?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Well, we can talk about it.
But there's some things thatmaybe I won't give details on.
But I'm very transparent aboutwhat happened to me, without
playing victim on it.
It's why I talk about traumathe way I do is there's so many
things that are running ourprogram without us consciously
(20:44):
realizing what it is.
Unfortunately, a lot of thetimes, it takes an implosion or
some kind of event, some painfulevent, right, but pain has
purpose.
Pain can reveal, there'ssomething going on here that's
underneath, right.
So often, jen, we focus on theevent and we're conditioned to
(21:06):
respond to the event.
I understand, right, the eventsare emotional, but if we can
get past the emotional pain andreally look at, well, why
Because if I can really dealwith why, I'm not going to
experience the emotional painagain, if I solve the reason
behind what happened and that'swhat really happened for me is I
(21:31):
did.
I had a full-on implosion at theend of 2019.
It almost destroyed my marriage, certainly compromised my
character, and here I am a guywriting about integrity and
authenticity and all that.
So it was almost like therewere two things happening.
There was this conscious sideof me that understood this is
the model and this is what yourepresent and this is what you
(21:52):
believe.
But underneath that was justridiculous pain, and that pain
was all the way back from mychildhood.
That was just repressed, shoveddown.
That started what happened forme.
I always tell this story.
It was all shoved down from thetime I was a child, all the way
(22:13):
through adulthood.
So I'm now 47 years old and Ihave been shoving this crap down
to try to ignore it, put itaway, right, and I would.
Internally, there was thisconstant battle of what is this
demon and that's what it alwaysfelt like was this dark side to
John that was always lurking inthe shadows.
(22:35):
And that dark side was my painand my trauma not really being
dealt with.
And at 47, I went to somethingcalled Band of Brothers.
So I'm extremely faith-filled.
Band of Brothers is based onthe book Wild at Heart, which
Wild at Heart changed my life.
I read that in 2003.
(22:57):
And so I went to this event inColorado and when my dad died
when I was 38, because of mysurvival instincts, I literally
shut off my emotions when itcame to painful events.
It was like the term I used wascauterized right, and I'm a big
Star Wars fan.
(23:18):
It was like somebody took alightsaber right, literally
sliced through my emotions andcauterized them in that instant.
And so if somebody died, Iwould have no feeling, none.
If bad things happened, I wouldjust be like, excuse my
language, shit happens, peopledie, people get hurt.
Because I just experiencedsomething terrible right, and so
my reaction was no feeling.
(23:39):
And along the way I would belike why gosh, why?
There's got to be somethingwrong with me.
I feel nothing.
And that went on for nine yearsuntil in the mountains of
Colorado.
I'm at this event and JohnEldridge who was leading the
event, we were praying, andthere's a section in that event
(23:59):
called the wound, and the woundwas losing my dad.
But that was so much deeperthan that.
I'm in a moment where I'm infight or flight, like I'm
literally hunched over, and I'mfacing this wound.
I am deciding whether or notI'm going to run out of the room
and avoid this or I'm going toreally give it up to God.
(24:21):
And I understand what beingwash clean really feels like,
because in that moment I wasspiritually wash clean of that
pain of losing my father.
And so I opened up in thatweekend.
All of a sudden, my emotionswere turned back on and I came
(24:43):
out of that in 2017, not in ahealthy way.
The purpose or the intent washealthy, but I didn't go about
it in a healthy way becausethere is a it's my father, right
it living in me.
Well, if we're going to do it,we're going to do it.
You know, I started to push theboundaries of my life what am I
(25:07):
not happy with?
And I started, instead of beinggentle and kind and asking
questions, I just was.
Now my emotions are back andI'm pushing because I'm like a
bull in a china shop, like I'mjust pushing and forcing.
And I did it in my marriage, Idid it in my career, I did it in
everything, and what was comingback was not things that I
(25:31):
wanted to see or wanted to hear,and I just kept pushing, kind
of like I'm going to force it toa breaking point and see what
comes as a result of that.
That's not healthy.
It's certainly not kind.
I was chaos and that chaosstarted slow, right.
(25:52):
A book came out of that and Ilove my book.
I reread my book post traumaand I really do stand because
all of it is is true.
The book was kind of like me ina way, sharing what I had been
through and what I learned andwhat I was trying to get to, but
how I was actually going aboutit was relentless until I broke
(26:17):
and almost broke my marriage.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And how did you get out of that?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
There's a great book out there called Extreme
Ownership, and what they talkabout in that book is it's a
seal philosophy, a Navy sealphilosophy that, no matter
what's happening at your fault,and on December 12, 2019, my
wife and I are sitting on thecouch deciding on whether or not
we're going to stay married.
And when you're sitting thereand you're going, how did we get
(26:46):
here?
I love you and you love me.
How could we be here?
And because we both read thatbook and had done so much
personal development over 18 or16 years, at the time we were
able to say all right, it take,two of us created this, it's not
one person.
So we're going to draw a lineand our marriage is going to be
(27:10):
defined by what we do next,because if we try to deal with
the past, we'll lose.
We're going to take ExtremeOwnership that the two of us
created, everything that led ushere.
We're going to draw a line andeverything we do from this
moment forward is what's goingto matter.
And I got therapy and startedseeking out mentors and coaches
(27:32):
and I attacked my weakness thesame way I attacked my awareness
.
Nothing is off limits.
I'm going to dive as far as Ineed and I'm still doing it.
Every time something shows up,I'm like, okay, what is that?
Why?
How is it controlling me?
Like, I don't go on socialmedia.
Facebook, instagram is managednow by others, so you'll find me
(27:56):
on those things, but I don'teven have the passwords because
they trigger me and I'm awareenough to go.
That's not really working forme, it's not good for my
marriage, it's just not good allthe way around, because there
are things on there that dotrigger me.
Then those things won't go away.
They're buried deep in mypsyche.
(28:17):
So why even entertain?
And it's funny because I'vebeen social media free since, I
think, march, and I don't missit at all, as a matter of fact,
the clarity that it brings tonot be on.
There is something I'm incredit I speak, and when I do
conferences or when I'm asked tospeak, especially with men, I
talk about what social media isdoing to erode us and the most
(28:40):
important relationships we have.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I agree with that, if it wasn't for my podcast.
Honestly, I'm about over socialmedia.
It's exhausting.
There are times where I had tounfollow things.
I understand that.
So I think it's great that youtook that step, that you
recognize this is not healthy.
I don't want to be a part ofthis.
And you stopped in regards toyour marriage or relationship,
(29:05):
was you drew that line and thenyou focus on what are we gonna
do moving forward?
You know, think about where youwant to be and how you get
there.
You know the little steps at atime.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I wanna speak to that First.
I wanna give credit wherecredit's due.
When we drew that line, I gotoff of Facebook in 2019, and I
don't think I turned it back onuntil like 2021.
I was off.
There was no wisdom for me whenit came to social media.
My wife came to me this yearand said you have a choice to
(29:41):
make get off social media or,essentially, you're gonna lose
me.
And I went well, that's afreaking no-brainer, like I
don't need this.
And so what's interesting aboutthat moment is I'm sitting
there going.
Clearly, I'm not seeingsomething, and this is really
important in the context ofrelationships.
(30:02):
If it's not working for my wifeon that level, then get rid of
it.
It's so not worth the pain it'scausing my spouse right, and I
think so many people hold ontotheir need to be right, or this
is mine.
You're gonna have to adjust tome.
No, we're talking about socialmedia and it's crap anyway.
(30:25):
So it was a no-brainer for me,but she had the.
This is why partnership is soimportant.
She knew what lie on the otherside of for me being off it, so
she is responsible for that andI thank her.
I keep thanking her.
I'm like I can't thank youenough for making that demand,
(30:47):
because I'm so much better of aperson not being on there when
we drew the line.
What people miss is we've got todeal with the past, like the
past created the problem andthere's so many things in there
that we those things are gonnacome up.
They haven't gone away.
But when you draw the line andyou say this forward and we
(31:09):
start working, you're able todeal with the past in little
bits and pieces as they presentthemselves Versus.
All I saw was this mess thatour marriage had become.
It's like a ball of knots.
If you try to pull one, there'sno way right, because one leads
to another and so you go.
Well, this happened because ofthis, and what about this?
(31:30):
And the next thing, you know,your entire conversation is
about all the crap that happenedto create where you're at.
But if you just make a decisionthat we're gonna figure it out
and we're gonna get betterlittle by little, all of those
old knots and the things thatagain the knot is the symptom
what's the cause?
The cause will show up again.
But now you have the clarity todeal with it one at a time,
(31:56):
little by little, with acommitment to each other that
we're going to move forward, andthat's where I think grace and
forgiveness really come in.
I know what real grace lookslike and it has changed me so
much that whenever people are intrauma or in crisis or they do
(32:16):
the things that they do becausewe as human beings are, we do
silly things.
I used to be this judgmentalguy.
Because people who arejudgmental are typically they're
judging themselves inside and,having been given the grace that
I have been given, I literallylook and go.
Who am I to have any kind ofopinion?
(32:40):
We're all walking through ourown trauma.
We're all walking through ourown stuff.
How can I be empathetic andlisten and maybe share some
wisdom, versus being judgmentaland casting them aside?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Those are lessons that we all can be reminded of.
That's probably a good way toput that and so your journey has
led to you writing a book,which you kind of mentioned
earlier, and your podcast.
So can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Sure.
So the book man Up Already isme talking to men, though I mean
women get a lot out of it.
But I'm talking to men becauseI fully, 100% believe that we
are all divinely created and weare divinely created for purpose
and there is a purpose behindmanhood.
In a society today that isattacking it like crazy.
(33:33):
But when you look at underneath, I truly believe that men and
women crave what manhoodauthentic, divine manhood brings
to relationships and to society, because when you remove it, it
is chaos.
So man Up Already is really metalking to men, saying you are
(33:57):
created by design for a purpose.
Your influence is incrediblyimportant, and the second half
of the book is built on what Icall the four pillars that if
you stand on these four pillars,you're gonna lead a successful
life.
And those four pillars reallywere inspired by my dad.
They are integrity, humility,authenticity and morality.
(34:21):
Do what you say you're going todo.
That's integrity.
Humility is it's not about you.
Authenticity is be uniquely you.
My message is there never hasbeen, nor will there ever be you
Ever right.
You are as only one, you, Jen.
There's only one me and anybodylistening.
You are uniquely and divinelycreated.
(34:43):
So often we try to be somebodyelse, be you and be proud of who
you are, and then morality isdo the right thing.
So that's the book, and inthere are exercises that men or
women can do to really kind ofwrestle with those questions.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
So tell our listeners where they can find your book.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You can go to manupalreadycom.
There's a lot of cool thingshappening there.
The book is there.
We have the entire visual videoand audio of the man Up Already
Growth Conference which we didin June, so all speakers are
there.
If you have a man in your life,I highly recommend that those
guys brought such wisdom.
(35:23):
I'm excited to say thatFebruary 24th of 2024 is the
next man Up Already GrowthConference in Port St Lucie, so
it was such a good event thatwe're going to do another one,
so I'm pumped about that.
That literally just happenedthis week.
It's not a Christian men'sconference.
(35:43):
It is a men's conference biredby God to remind men of who they
are, and I think those two getvery blurred and what is often
forgotten is how fierce Jesuswas, how courageous, fierce he
(36:05):
did press the boundaries of theestablishment.
I mean, that was no timid life.
When men are around men and youget them comfortable which
typically you got to get themout you'll see real fellowship
around a fireplace aftersomething has been done, and so
the man Up Already GrowthConference is kind of like we're
(36:26):
going to strip it down, we'regoing to get you in a room and
we're going to freaking remindyou who you are and a four
letter word comes out of mymouth, then so be it.
We want men walking out ofthere going.
Number one I really need tothink about what I'm thinking
about.
But number two I was createdfor such a grand purpose.
(36:47):
How do I start really steppinginto that?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I love that.
I want every man to be able tofeel that as well.
Were you called to do that inyour journey?
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah.
So the book was literally likewalking with God from thought to
print.
It was four months, it flew outof me.
It was the most of it waswritten in a weekend and I had
heard stories of people doingthat, but it really, it really
did happen.
And then the podcast was a yearlater.
(37:20):
I was doing this crazy fitnesschallenge and at the end of it I
was like going live during apart of it and people were
paying attention and I would dothis thing called the ride along
, which I do on LinkedIn you seea lot or even on all my social
media.
I still do it.
It's kind of like this wackyway of doing a podcast.
I would go get coffee andpeople were like great message
(37:40):
this morning.
And I'm like you're watchingthat, you know.
Like people were coming to me,like people who I respected, who
I saw maybe as just higher,like in my financial business,
were like keep doing what you'redoing, I'm paying attention,
you taught me something today.
I'm like, wow, this is just mesharing the journey.
So that's how the podcasthappened.
And then the growth conference.
The idea of it came last yearbecause at that time I was going
(38:03):
to do some coaching with menand I was meeting with some men
who are coaches and I have myown coach and I just was very
clear I'm not ready for that.
But I was meeting with one ofthem, my friend Eric, and God
very clearly said you're goingto get men in a room and bring
men like Eric to the men.
That's what I want you to do.
(38:23):
It was very clear.
And finally I was like all right, god, you know, it's kind of
like when God tells you to do it, you do it, and so that's how
that was born and that's what wedid.
What happened at the end ofthat event is, for a lot of men
in their lights had come on, andone of them came to me and he
said one of the things that Italk about is the power of your
posse, how important it is.
(38:44):
You know why your circlematters.
And he came to me after and hejust looked at me and he goes I
don't know how to do that, Idon't know how to build that
circle.
So his name is Brandon.
It just stuck with me the lookon Brandon's face of please
don't leave me like this.
I probably need to get one onone with these guys, and so,
(39:07):
thankfully, brandon hit me backand now I'm coaching him one on
one.
So I've opened myself up now toworking with men hands on,
which I'm really enjoying.
So I have two guys that I workwith.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I said to my son yesterday because he's you know,
it's like he's a junior incollege what is he planning on
doing?
And so we were just talkingabout it and I said you know, if
I could make life a lot easierfor you, I'll say this just take
the next logical step.
The next logical step willpresent itself.
It always does the end at theend of the hall on any hotel
(39:41):
floor.
You don't see all of the doors.
You see the corridor.
The doors present themselves asyou move closer to them and
life is really like that.
The next door opens when youtake the next logical step
towards them.
So often we want to dictate theparameters using information
from the past, instead of justno, I'm just going to step.
(40:03):
And really the blessing thathappens is because I saw it with
the conference by you takingthe step and doing something
that is beyond your own abilityto pull off, you ignite
something and other people togive them the opportunity to
participate.
And I could I don't know.
This is where I could getreally emotional.
You change lives by doing that,because other people step in
(40:25):
answering their own calling.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
That is special.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
And then you really go do something special.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I'm so glad that you have found your journey and I'm
so glad that I found you and Iget to hear about your journey.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
You're welcome and I'm excited that we can share
this with the world as well.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
You know it's funny because I I think it was on a
podcast that I had did earlierthat your pain can have purpose.
That's a theme that has kind ofcome up in the last couple of
weeks is your pain can havepurpose right, like you can take
the trauma or the pain or thepainful moments and, if you use
(41:05):
them properly, I think yourespect what you've gone through
right.
So oftentimes you know we canfall victim and disrespect what
we went through, especially whenI meet others who have been
through traumatic events orexperienced things in life of
showing respect to to whatthey've been through but also
(41:26):
inspiring their own respect.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Pain can have purpose .
I mean because that is just aphenomenal statement when you
sit back and you really thinkabout that.
I'm definitely going to.
I want to investigate thatbecause I'm curious.
Curiosity is a good thing,right?
Is there anything you want toadd before I do my closing?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
No, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Thank you so much for being my guest today.
I love that you just reiteratedagain that pain can have
purpose Very powerful message.
So again thank you for being myguest on the I Need Blue
podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Absolutely Anytime.
This is Jen Lee with the I NeedBlue podcast.
You can find all of my episodesand everything about I Need
Blue on wwwineedbluenet.
Again, thank you for listeningand remember you are stronger
than you think.
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