November 27, 2023 • 35 mins
In this insightful episode, Dr. Michele Finneran, a leading psychotherapist and mental health advocate, explores the mental toll of compassion fatigue faced by first responders, healthcare providers, counselors, and others in service professions. She shares valuable strategies from her book, The Compassionate Conundrum: Strategies for First Responders and Service Providers to Prevent Fatigue, offering seven practical self-care tips that help professionals balance their commitment to others while maintaining their own well-being.
Dr. Finneran also discusses the importance of destigmatizing mental health in first responder communities and highlights the role of peer-to-peer support groups. Additionally, we explore the impact of secondary trauma on the families of service providers and how they can also benefit from mental health support. This episode provides essential insights for anyone in service professions to safeguard their mental health and prevent burnout. Tune in for actionable advice on staying resilient while caring for others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Welcome back.
This is Jen Lee, creator andhost of I Need Blue podcast.
True Crime to True Life.
As a survivor of arm droperyand abduction, I understand the
(00:25):
trauma and triggers survivorsexperience Knowing this and
through my powerful podcast, Ioffer survivors a safe place to
share their lived experiences.
Survivors need blue to feelthey belong, they are loved,
understood and my favoriteempowered.
(00:47):
Please note I Need Blue doescontain sensitive topics which
could be triggering.
Please seek help if needed andremember you always come first.
I Need Blue episodes can befound on Apple Podcast, Spotify
and many listening platforms,including my website,
(01:07):
wwwineedbluenet.
I would like to thank Char Good, the talented violinist who
composed and performed thisopening music.
You can find information aboutChar Good on my website.
As always, thank you forlistening.
Let's begin today's episode.
Get ready to be enthralled byour special guest, Dr Michelle
(01:33):
Finneran.
She's an author, apsychotherapist and a passionate
advocate for mental health.
Some of you may remember herfrom a previous appearance on I
Need Blue, where she shared herinvaluable insights on
supporting the survivors of theParkland School shooting.
I'll include the link in ourshow notes if you missed that
(01:56):
episode.
Today, I'm delighted toreconnect with Michelle as we
delve into a vital topic thewell-being of our first
responders.
Her latest book, theCompassionate Condundrum
Strategies for First Respondersand Service Providers to Prevent
Fatigue, is a must read.
(02:16):
And here's the fascinatingtwist you don't need to be a
first responder to benefit fromthese insights.
Many of these strategies applyto our everyday lives.
As a podcast dedicated toproviding valuable resources,
this episode is your chance togain a deep understanding of
(02:38):
stress, burnout and compassionfatigue.
Michelle is here to enlightenus and we are truly grateful for
her presence.
Welcome back, Michelle, andthank you for being my special
guest on the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Thank you, jen.
I'm so happy to be back it'sbeen a minute and I'm so happy
to come back again on yourimportant podcast.
I think it's very importantthat you have podcasts like this
to educate, inform and raiseawareness, so thank you for
having me back.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Absolutely, and I appreciate you and everything
that you do as well to helppeople in their healing journey.
I want to start with thisquestion.
The title of your book iscalled the Compassion Condundrum
.
Tell me why you picked thattitle?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Me and my team were talking about a kind of a catchy
title that would stick inpeople's mind A condundrum.
We don't hear very often.
Like you mentioned, it's aninteresting combination of words
the compassion condundrumbecause when you think of a
condundrum you're almost like ina crisis situation, like you're
frazzled, you know you'restruggling as a first responder
(03:52):
or a service provider orhealthcare professional.
A lot of times we feel incondundrum because we're
outpouring so much compassion.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Absolutely Like for me.
I'm an empath, so I feel thatindividual's emotions, and so
for me it was really findingthat balance between being able
to relate to my guest or myfriend, my family member, but
then also make sure I have myboundaries.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, and I did an interview we talked about the
mentality of first responders,always in the old mentality, old
school mentality of alwaysputting others first, others
first.
And so the importance here inthis compassionate condundrum,
is, you know, it's almost likethe airplane simulation where
you take your mask down, you putit on yourself first and you
(04:39):
put it on another person.
This first responder really hasto value and put themselves
first.
And service providers have toput themselves first and make
sure that their mental healthand their physical health is on
point before even attempting totry to help anybody else in an
effective way.
So that's why first respondersold mentality is we're putting
(05:02):
everybody first, because this isjust what we do.
But no, that's the old way ofthinking.
The new way of thinking is likefirst responders have to put
themselves first.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Absolutely.
You know, when you firststarted talking about that, I
had a visual the putting on yourmask of being a parent, and you
put it, that mask on yourselffirst and then you put it on
your child.
But what's very different aboutbeing a parent and being a
first responder is within thatour first responders see
situations that many of us couldnever possibly imagine.
(05:36):
And that's where your ebook,the compassion conundrum I have
to say conundrum slow, becauseit's almost like a tongue
twister.
It's almost like a tonguetwister for me, but I've gotten
it out.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
It's hard for me to even spell.
I can't even spell it right.
I get it confused.
I know it's very, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I love it, though it's perfect.
It's like a conversation piecein itself, yeah, and that's so
important because this is aconversation that needs to be
had, absolutely, and I'm so gladthat you wrote this book.
Let's talk a little bit, then,about stress, burnout,
compassion, fatigue, how they'rethe same, how they're the same,
how they're different, how theyrelate to first responders, how
(06:23):
they relate to people like youand me.
There's so much to unpack here,yeah, and I can't wait to get
started, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So in the book we define stress, the definitions
and the symptoms and thecinematology of regarding stress
and burnout.
You know, in the research andliterature which is all this
book is based on literature andresearch and academia is that
there's no real clear definition.
But the most popular definitionI found as a physical and
mental, emotional strain up toour tension that stress incurs
(06:53):
and the condition of feelingexperience when a person
perceives that the demandsexceed the personal and social
resources that the individual isable to mobilize.
So that is part of stress.
That's kind of like the mostpopular definitions.
It varies but this is what Ifound the research to be the
most sub definitive with when itcomes to stress.
(07:14):
And then we talk about, like Estress, which is motivating
stress, which is positive stress, and we talk about D stress,
which is paralyzing, andnegative stress and the feelings
of being overwhelmed.
Which defense mechanisms arethese fight, flight and freeze
responses that we talk aboutwhen we feel stress and it
manifests?
I know I know a lot of peoplethat manifests in different ways
(07:36):
.
Stress can manifest within thebody, it stores in the body, it
has physical manifestations.
That is part of stress.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
You're right, everybody handles stress
differently.
Something that might stress meout might not stress you out,
right, exactly the fight, flightor freeze response Boy.
Have I felt that Absolutely.
In regards to therapy, beingable to get yourself out of that
(08:07):
fight, flight or freeze can betough.
It is yeah For me.
I think there are times wheremy body has stayed in it and I
didn't even realize that it wasin it.
The other is, yeah, theparalyzing stress, the negative
stress.
Would that be comparable tolike depression?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, Usually it can go to one or two ways.
It can reach a level whenyou're that overwhelmed, as
stressed, it can reach likeparalyzing anxiety and anxiety.
It can turn into an anxietyissue and it can also turn into
a depressive state.
In the book it talks about notjust that, not just
psychological manifestations ofstress, but also physical
(08:47):
manifestations as well.
The goal is thattherapeutically, before you're
going down a paralyzing state,is to catch it early on.
It's early detection, one ofthe key signs before we're going
down a rabbit hole.
Once you're going down a rabbithole, therapeutically it's
harder to come back to surface.
If you have early detection andyou have early awareness and I
(09:11):
talk about how to detect that inthe book that is going to be
key to helping the transitionsmoother and out before going
deeper into a dark place.
That early detection awarenessis super helpful therapeutically
before it gets to a point at acontrol point.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Absolutely Basically, understanding your triggers yes
, yes and knowing how they feelin your body.
I am so glad that that is inyour book, because, to me, if
you don't know your triggerswhich is step one right then how
do you figure out how to cope,yes, and then not end up feeling
that way again?
You know, we're 27 days awayfrom Christmas and people
(09:55):
experience that seasonal fatigue.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
How does that fit into this topic of stress?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You know, not just seasonal fatigue but financial
fatigue.
I'm hearing a lot of thatcoming up in my sessions.
A lot of people around thistime have a lot.
They feel like they can't do asmuch as they want to do
monetarily for their kids andthat really stresses a lot of
parents out.
When that becomes a part of thefamily dynamic it's very
(10:23):
challenging to overcome and weknow we're having these
conversations and sessions rightnow about financial stress
Because everything not just noteven with Christmas coming or
holidays coming just witheverything just skyrocketing up.
Everything is so expensive andpeople now closer to the
holidays is becoming more andmore concerned.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Absolutely.
And a lot of times we place somany expectations on ourselves
yes, that we're expected to dothis or do that and a lot of
times things are out of ourcontrol, like right now, the
cost of groceries we can'tcontrol if they go up the cost
of gas.
So, like you said, thatfinancial stress, it fluctuates,
(11:05):
and so many of those factors wedon't control.
We don't control.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But there is things that we can control.
Is the feelings taken away fromit Like I have a lot of parents
like having parental guilt.
You know, when we start doingthat, especially with parents
that have young kids, you knowwe start to lose sight of the
essence of what Christmas isreally about?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yes, thank you so much for sharing, and now this
topic is going to lead us intoburnout.
Can you tell us a little aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So, yes, burnout is the emotional and physical
exhaustion of excessive,prolonged stress.
So stress is one level andburnout is a higher severity of
level than stress.
And when we think about burnoutwe usually think about job
burnout.
Burnout can happenprofessionally and personally.
It's definitely very much sopart of ability.
(12:02):
When you're unable to meet highdemands, it definitely zaps
energy levels, it threatens yourjob, it threatens your health,
it threatens your relationshipand it's a feeling of not being
enough, not doing enough,feeling empty and devoid of
motivation and beyond.
I think that burnout is anotherlevel of stress prolonged
(12:24):
stress, because stress canhappen immediately and can not
last that long, but burnout is aprolonged stress.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It's more threatening .
Yes and the first responders.
They're more prone to theburnout.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They are.
They are more prone to burnout,but they're even more prone to
compassion fatigue, more so thanany other profession.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Let's move on, then, to the compassion fatigue.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So compassion fatigue I love this term because I
experienced compassion fatigueduring COVID and I'm still
experiencing a little bit of theaftermath of it as a therapist
and anybody who is a firstresponder or a service provider,
people that I help, people whohelp other people so that's the
(13:15):
niche of my practice and peoplethat help other people prior to
focusing on their own needs, aremuch more prone to compassion
fatigue.
Whether you're a serviceprovider, whether you're a first
responder, whatever the casemay be, the difference is it's
different type of exhaustionthan burnout, than stress, and
it's continuously kind of givingof yourself, feeling depleted.
(13:39):
But the one thing that happensin compassion fatigue is feeling
completely apathetic and it'shard to be a first responder or
a caregiver or a serviceprovider and provide effective
services when you're feelingapathy.
Apathy is like the act of notcaring.
So that's why compassionfatigue is the negative costs of
(14:01):
caring.
You're outpouring so much as afirst responder and service
provider that you're feeling sodepleted that the care now is
jeopardized because there's alack of compassion.
So that's why compassionfatigue is a term coined, first
coined in the nursing industry.
Charles Fiddley coined the termand he coined it because it's
(14:22):
not only a physical andemotional psychological impact
of helping others.
It also has to do withsecondary traumatic stress,
trauma that only firstresponders see, only service
providers here and see.
That's another higher severityelement to compassion fatigue.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, until we started to have this
conversation, I was not familiarwith compassion fatigue, so you
have educated me so muchalready and I know that there
are people listening that afteryou just described it are like,
oh wait, that's me.
Yeah, I understand now.
(15:01):
That's what's going on.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Just so you know the reason why I'm so passionate
about this.
This is because I experiencedit myself as a clinician, but I
also because my niche in myprivate practice is helping
people that help other peoplefirst responders and service
providers mainly that I helpthem to help their staff, their
(15:24):
clientele, their patients, thecommunity to become more
effective one giving care.
So I saw on both sides of thecoin one experiencing it
personally and one helpingpeople out professionally.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Can you share if you're comfortable with your
experience then, and how youhave helped yourself get through
this compassion fatigue?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Honestly, jen.
In the book it's outlined sevenno-brainer strategies that
first responders and serviceproviders must do there, must do
, and so there's seven thingsoutline.
I do an eclectic of things.
I realized that I needed to dosomething to help myself, and
not nothing maladaptive, notthese vices that are set up to
(16:14):
help short term but then becomean additional issue, like the
vices that we talk aboutexcessive sex, excessive
gambling, excessive drinking,excessive drug use, marijuana
use, all this stuff that we usein excess to numb to deal in the
short term, and those are allmaladaptive.
They're all vices.
So instead of leaning intothose, as a therapist I know not
(16:38):
to do that, but I'm also aperson as well.
So I decided to have a eclectic, different type of eclectic
toolbox.
For instance, I wake up earlyin the morning and before I
start my day, I say a prayer.
I make a prayer every Sundayfor the week and I say it out
loud before I start my day,every single day, with a cup of
(17:01):
coffee.
One cup, one cup of coffee.
I don't have one cup of coffee,I can't even say a sentence.
So I have one cup of coffee andmy prayer.
That's the first thing.
Then I go for an hour walkevery single day, even on the
weekends.
I go for a walk every singleday and I have a meditative walk
(17:23):
with myself, meaning I canthink about everything.
I usually think about my weekbecause I don't want to get
overwhelmed and put myself inanxiety patterns.
So I think about just the weekahead, I think about my day, I
think about what I'm going towear, what I'm going to eat, I
think about how I'm going tohide, how I want the day to look
for me.
So it's a premeditative walkwith self in nature, only in
(17:47):
nature, and then I start my day.
I start my day and that sets myday up for success Doing those
things I think in AM routine.
A PM routine is super helpful.
That AM routine always sets meup for success.
And then I go through my dayand I have a pretty long day On.
Sundays is my day, my self careday.
(18:10):
Sundays is when I do my reading.
Sundays is when I write out mydevotional.
Sunday is when I meal prep.
Sunday is when I take care ofmy hygiene.
I wash my hair, I shave, youknow stuff like that.
Sundays is my day.
For me, it's my self care dayIf I provide mental health for
(18:31):
other people, try to providegood mental health for people.
I got to be walking the walk.
I also have to have good mentalhealth.
I also have a therapist.
I have a therapist to help me.
I have a business coach thathelps with my business.
I have professionals that helpme when I may need the help.
I have therapist friends.
(18:51):
I have formal and informalsupports.
I have a good social network.
I have a loving family.
Those are all very importantthings to put in place.
So you are completely, 100%balanced when you are trying to
give care, whether it be a firstresponder or a service provider
(19:12):
or just caring for your parents, an older adult Very important
to have a clinic.
You can't just have one thing.
You have to have a multitude ofthings because there's so much,
so much struggle.
The people are just reallystruggling and one thing is not
going to be an one-all fix-all.
You have to have a toolbox ofthings.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I love that.
Different avenues For you.
You found creating that routinein your morning to be
beneficial, being intentionalabout your self care and putting
yourself first and allowingyourself to put yourself first,
because a lot of people thehelpers, they don't know how to
(19:54):
put themselves first.
They're not trained, they're nottrained to Correct, correct.
I'm listening to you and yougive me hope.
I don't have the compassionfatigue at the moment, but my
heart is filling up and I waslike gosh.
I feel hope and I know whenother people listen to this,
(20:16):
your passion, your authenticity,your I've been there comes
through in your voice, in yourwords and your recommendations.
So thank you, you're welcome.
Thank you for recognizingAbsolutely.
You know we talked aboutroutine and for a first
(20:36):
responder.
Every morning they walk outthat door.
They don't have a routinebecause every call is different.
They don't know what they'regoing to walk into Exactly.
How do you help someone withthat type of a schedule, if you
will.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, having some type of personal routine may not you
may not be have a structureprofessionally, because you
absolutely don't know what kindof call you're going to get, or
how you're going to bejeopardized, or what your safety
is or what you're grieving tosee.
You don't.
You don't have thatpredictability.
So you have to be prepared forjust about anything as a first
(21:18):
responder, and so in yourpersonal life, you can you have
more control.
You do have a little bit morecontrol, though in places where
you do have more control,utilize that, like in your
personal life, in order to be asmuch as you can, professionally
, mentally, prepared for theunknown.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I think that's great advice Control what you can
control.
I think we would both agreethat there is more of the mental
health, the coping skillstraining needed for our first
responders and 911 dispatchers,and nurses and caregivers.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Absolutely, and it really falls on progressive
cities and municipalities andhospitals and organizations to
really take care of theiremployees mental health, and the
way a city or a company can dothat is providing an employee
assistance program through theirHR department where they are
getting free counseling.
(22:14):
Insurance is good for theirmental health.
But the company that theirorganization, the city, the
hospitals can set up,understanding that a day off
shouldn't be explained as to whya service provider or first
responder needs to take a dayoff.
They just do because of thefield that they work in.
So it's having progressivecities, municipalities and
(22:37):
organizations and hospitals andadministrative people in
position of power.
You really understand that thisis a really big thing and it
just trickles down atop.
It can really benefit and I'veseen some cities in my area that
are real progressive and their,their employees, feel very much
well taken care of and they doa better job because of it.
So and I see other cities thatdon't they don't.
(23:00):
The burnout rate and capacitypast fatigue is higher.
It has to start.
It starts for I could startwithin with your own individual
work, but collectively andcollectively and macro level it
needs to start with the higherups in these municipalities and
needs to start higher up inthese hospital administrations.
(23:21):
It needs to start higher up andit have a trickle down effect,
so the employee feels thatthey're worthy and they're
valued Absolutely and, like yousaid, it starts at the top.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
They're the ones that are the decision makers that
can decide hey, we need toimplement this.
There is a need.
I think that recently there hasbeen more of a spotlight put on
the mental health of our firstresponder.
Certainly not enough.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
The conversation has started.
Oh my gosh, this book is goingto be a great asset as well,
especially in those areas wherenobody's ever talked about it.
Now you're like here, here's aresource, here's a tool like
this is really what's going onand here's how we can help.
Many times for our firstresponders, they're afraid to
(24:11):
ask for help Absolutely yesbecause they're afraid of losing
their job.
They're afraid of losing theirjob.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
They're afraid of personally looking weak.
There's a lot of fear and a lotof still stigma specifically
with this, with thisprofessional niche, a lot of
stigma that's placed on them andthat's why peer-to-peer
counseling is very important too, for first responders is
because they lean into eachother more than they would a
professional intervention.
So that's why peer-to-peersupport groups and peer-to-peer
(24:42):
people that know exactly likewhat they're feeling in the
moment, what they're feeling.
It is important to alsodebunking and destigmatizing
mental health in general, notjust with first responders or
service providers that thinkthat going to a mental health
professional makes you lookvulnerable and weak is really
debunking that myth.
(25:03):
Actually, it's a sign ofstrength, it's a sign of courage
and making that call is alwaysprobably the biggest, most
anxiety-provoking thing ever.
And stepping into the firstsession is having a therapist
who will take all calls, notjust, you know, having just go
return the calls actually andknowing that the first call is
(25:25):
the hardest call, and therapistsalso realizing that the first
session is the mostanxiety-provoking session, and
having compassion in those areas.
If I can't, jen, if I can'ttake on clients, because I have
a high caseload, because thisyear I had to hire somebody to
help me in my group practice,which has been amazing.
She's been super amazing andsuper helpful with me and
(25:46):
helping me unload some of theclient numbers.
But if I can't help them, Istill call them back.
I don't care, because that callis the hardest call to make.
Even if I can't help them, Ican figure out a way to figure
out some way in which to givethem something to leave with so
they don't feel helpless orhopeless, because that call is
(26:07):
the hardest call to make.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Okay.
So that puts a smile on my facebecause you are so right taking
that first step and for many itis picking up the phone and
making that phone call and Ican't imagine doing that and not
getting that call back.
I'm so glad that you stress theimportance of that, because as
a therapist you're busy.
(26:29):
Like you said, your workload isheavy.
I'm sure everybody's workloadis heavy, but at least
acknowledge their courage andtheir strength to call and then
provide them another resource,like you did.
You have somebody else nowthere to take on other cases
when you have a heavy workload.
That is great advice.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, as a business owner, you have to constantly
assess your business and theneeds of the business and the
needs of the people, especiallyan entrepreneur that provides a
specific service for theircustomers.
Regardless of what fields you'rein, the customer's needs is
always primarily theentrepreneur's most focus and so
(27:11):
there's such a need.
And so, because there's such aneed and because I'm seeing in
my practice an overwhelmingamount of anxiety and stress,
the beginning of the year me andmy associate are putting
together stress anxiety 10 weekmodule and it's a psycho
educational group model to helpwith tools and techniques,
(27:32):
empirical evidence tools andtechniques that people can
actually utilize on a day to daybasis.
It's such an overwhelmingamount of anxiety and paralyzing
stress that I'm seeing in mypractice.
We thought that these groupswould be beneficial as a
resource for clients for backand associates and local locals
(27:53):
in the South Florida area tocome to and sign up for.
So we're putting that in placeat the beginning of January.
It's always assessing, it'salways constantly do an
evaluation of your business andthe needs of your clientele.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I love this.
I was going to ask you ifthere's a lot of peer-to-peer
groups.
So the fact that you noticethat there is this need and
you've created this program forgroups.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
We're experimenting it, we're doing it face-to-face
and we're doing it virtually Inthe same week with Michelle Page
.
It's going to be leading myassociates going to be leading
the group.
She's going to be facilitatingbecause she knows the model,
she's been educated on thismodel.
We assess a need and we have asoft wait list happening.
It's going to be a rotatingthing, depending on the needs of
(28:39):
the practice these groups andit's not a support group, it's
not a dropping group, it'sreally supportive in nature but
it's really about, like, leadingthe group with something to
implement and execute in theirday-to-day lives.
That's really the key here.
You have to have, like I said,a toolbox, and this group and
(29:00):
these things that we're puttingin place are toolboxes, tools in
your toolbox, that kind ofutilize so we stop out anxiety,
we stop out stress, we diffuseit immediately.
So we eliminate that from ourwhole core and our whole being
by practice, by implementation,by experimentation, by execution
, and do you counsel the spousesas well?
(29:25):
Absolutely.
The spouses are the ones thatthey don't get the focal point
on them.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Oh, absolutely, and they have.
I believe it's called thesecondary trauma.
Secondary trauma yes, let'stake a minute and let's talk
about that real quick.
Can we Sure sure, sure, yeah,yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So secondary trauma is something different.
It's being exposed to otherpeople's trauma.
So families, when their spousescome home and they talk about
their day, that's a story theyhave to visualize.
And that's again an example ofsecondary trauma.
Hearing about being exposed toother people's trauma, a
(30:06):
therapist, a story, a narrativeabout descriptions of things
that are traumatizing for thefirst responder a secondary
example of secondary trauma.
These are all examples ofsecondary trauma and things that
are passed down that can causesame symptoms of PTSD, same
symptomology as PTSD, just bybeing exposed to secondary
(30:29):
trauma.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Absolutely, and then sometimes they feel like they
don't have anywhere else to goto talk about it, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Exactly exactly, and that's why your social supports
your informal.
You have to have informalsupports with your friends, your
family, your neighbors, peoplethat fill your cup, and you also
have to have formal supports,professional people,
professionals.
You have to have an array offormal and informal supports
(30:58):
that can help you professionallywith intervention.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Great advice.
Do you have any final thoughtsthat you would like to share
today?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
You know, I know this is being released around the
holidays, but today is VeteransDay and I just you know my first
responders, my veterans, myretired VA's, my nurses, people
that help other people.
They're the real heroes thatthey are trying their hardest,
(31:28):
through the struggles and thetrials and tribulations that
they experience, not justprofessionally but personally,
that they have to show up.
They don't have a choice.
They have to show up and theyhave to have compassion, whether
or not they feel it or not.
So those are the real heroes.
The people that I help are theones that give me hope and they
give me.
(31:48):
They fill me up professionallyin reward.
Just a mere fact of seeing theprogress and seeing a first
responder create levels ofprogression and benefit from the
intervention brings me thereward.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's a great message of gratitude, especially
for especially being VeteransDay.
That is just a great message ofgratitude.
Thank you so much.
Please tell us about your book.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Okay, so the book right now currently is on my
website, beckandassociatescom.
It's under the shop tab.
That version is only an e-book.
It's coming on Amazon Kindleand Amazon Paperback.
Hopefully by the end ofNovember.
We're going to try to push itout.
So it's the compassion, theconundrum, first response
(32:41):
strategies for first respondersand service providers to prevent
fatigue.
It's really an educational toolfor anybody who provides care
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I look forward to that.
So I'm going to get a copy.
I just think it's invaluableinformation and it's something
that should be shared, becausemany times we do not know what
people are struggling withinside.
Yes, and they might readsomething in there that touches
them and gives them somedirection and hope and
encourages them to reach out.
(33:12):
So again, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
You're welcome, thank you.
Thank you for promoting it,because you know, obviously my
goal is to help as many peopleas I possibly can, and so this
is another avenue.
Clientel is one, counseling isone, but also research,
education, writing, publishingis another way just to educate
(33:35):
and to bring awareness to thecommunity and to people, people
that are serving other people.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Thank you so much, Michelle.
Thank you for being my guest onthe I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thank you so much and for having me Again.
It's always a pleasure toconnect.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
You're so welcome, and this is Jennifer Lee.
I am host of the I Need Bluepodcast.
You can find anything andeverything you ever wanted to
learn about I Need Blue on mywebsite, wwwinadbluenet.
And remember you are strongerthan you think.
Until next time.
Everyone has a story.
They just don't always have aplace to share it.
Welcome back.
This is Jen Lee, creator andhost of I Need Blue podcast.
True Crime to True Life.
As a survivor of arm droperyand abduction, I understand the
(00:25):
trauma and triggers survivorsexperience Knowing this and
through my powerful podcast, Ioffer survivors a safe place to
share their lived experiences.
Survivors need blue to feelthey belong, they are loved,
understood and my favoriteempowered.
(00:47):
Please note I Need Blue doescontain sensitive topics which
could be triggering.
Please seek help if needed andremember you always come first.
I Need Blue episodes can befound on Apple Podcast, Spotify
and many listening platforms,including my website,
(01:07):
wwwineedbluenet.
I would like to thank Char Good, the talented violinist who
composed and performed thisopening music.
You can find information aboutChar Good on my website.
As always, thank you forlistening.
Let's begin today's episode.
Get ready to be enthralled byour special guest, Dr Michelle
(01:33):
Finneran.
She's an author, apsychotherapist and a passionate
advocate for mental health.
Some of you may remember herfrom a previous appearance on I
Need Blue, where she shared herinvaluable insights on
supporting the survivors of theParkland School shooting.
I'll include the link in ourshow notes if you missed that
(01:56):
episode.
Today, I'm delighted toreconnect with Michelle as we
delve into a vital topic thewell-being of our first
responders.
Her latest book, theCompassionate Condundrum
Strategies for First Respondersand Service Providers to Prevent
Fatigue, is a must read.
(02:16):
And here's the fascinatingtwist you don't need to be a
first responder to benefit fromthese insights.
Many of these strategies applyto our everyday lives.
As a podcast dedicated toproviding valuable resources,
this episode is your chance togain a deep understanding of
(02:38):
stress, burnout and compassionfatigue.
Michelle is here to enlightenus and we are truly grateful for
her presence.
Welcome back, Michelle, andthank you for being my special
guest on the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Thank you, jen.
I'm so happy to be back it'sbeen a minute and I'm so happy
to come back again on yourimportant podcast.
I think it's very importantthat you have podcasts like this
to educate, inform and raiseawareness, so thank you for
having me back.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Absolutely, and I appreciate you and everything
that you do as well to helppeople in their healing journey.
I want to start with thisquestion.
The title of your book iscalled the Compassion Condundrum
.
Tell me why you picked thattitle?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Me and my team were talking about a kind of a catchy
title that would stick inpeople's mind A condundrum.
We don't hear very often.
Like you mentioned, it's aninteresting combination of words
the compassion condundrumbecause when you think of a
condundrum you're almost like ina crisis situation, like you're
frazzled, you know you'restruggling as a first responder
(03:52):
or a service provider orhealthcare professional.
A lot of times we feel incondundrum because we're
outpouring so much compassion.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Absolutely Like for me.
I'm an empath, so I feel thatindividual's emotions, and so
for me it was really findingthat balance between being able
to relate to my guest or myfriend, my family member, but
then also make sure I have myboundaries.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, and I did an interview we talked about the
mentality of first responders,always in the old mentality, old
school mentality of alwaysputting others first, others
first.
And so the importance here inthis compassionate condundrum,
is, you know, it's almost likethe airplane simulation where
you take your mask down, you putit on yourself first and you
(04:39):
put it on another person.
This first responder really hasto value and put themselves
first.
And service providers have toput themselves first and make
sure that their mental healthand their physical health is on
point before even attempting totry to help anybody else in an
effective way.
So that's why first respondersold mentality is we're putting
(05:02):
everybody first, because this isjust what we do.
But no, that's the old way ofthinking.
The new way of thinking is likefirst responders have to put
themselves first.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Absolutely.
You know, when you firststarted talking about that, I
had a visual the putting on yourmask of being a parent, and you
put it, that mask on yourselffirst and then you put it on
your child.
But what's very different aboutbeing a parent and being a
first responder is within thatour first responders see
situations that many of us couldnever possibly imagine.
(05:36):
And that's where your ebook,the compassion conundrum I have
to say conundrum slow, becauseit's almost like a tongue
twister.
It's almost like a tonguetwister for me, but I've gotten
it out.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
It's hard for me to even spell.
I can't even spell it right.
I get it confused.
I know it's very, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I love it, though it's perfect.
It's like a conversation piecein itself, yeah, and that's so
important because this is aconversation that needs to be
had, absolutely, and I'm so gladthat you wrote this book.
Let's talk a little bit, then,about stress, burnout,
compassion, fatigue, how they'rethe same, how they're the same,
how they're different, how theyrelate to first responders, how
(06:23):
they relate to people like youand me.
There's so much to unpack here,yeah, and I can't wait to get
started, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So in the book we define stress, the definitions
and the symptoms and thecinematology of regarding stress
and burnout.
You know, in the research andliterature which is all this
book is based on literature andresearch and academia is that
there's no real clear definition.
But the most popular definitionI found as a physical and
mental, emotional strain up toour tension that stress incurs
(06:53):
and the condition of feelingexperience when a person
perceives that the demandsexceed the personal and social
resources that the individual isable to mobilize.
So that is part of stress.
That's kind of like the mostpopular definitions.
It varies but this is what Ifound the research to be the
most sub definitive with when itcomes to stress.
(07:14):
And then we talk about, like Estress, which is motivating
stress, which is positive stress, and we talk about D stress,
which is paralyzing, andnegative stress and the feelings
of being overwhelmed.
Which defense mechanisms arethese fight, flight and freeze
responses that we talk aboutwhen we feel stress and it
manifests?
I know I know a lot of peoplethat manifests in different ways
(07:36):
.
Stress can manifest within thebody, it stores in the body, it
has physical manifestations.
That is part of stress.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
You're right, everybody handles stress
differently.
Something that might stress meout might not stress you out,
right, exactly the fight, flightor freeze response Boy.
Have I felt that Absolutely.
In regards to therapy, beingable to get yourself out of that
(08:07):
fight, flight or freeze can betough.
It is yeah For me.
I think there are times wheremy body has stayed in it and I
didn't even realize that it wasin it.
The other is, yeah, theparalyzing stress, the negative
stress.
Would that be comparable tolike depression?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, Usually it can go to one or two ways.
It can reach a level whenyou're that overwhelmed, as
stressed, it can reach likeparalyzing anxiety and anxiety.
It can turn into an anxietyissue and it can also turn into
a depressive state.
In the book it talks about notjust that, not just
psychological manifestations ofstress, but also physical
(08:47):
manifestations as well.
The goal is thattherapeutically, before you're
going down a paralyzing state,is to catch it early on.
It's early detection, one ofthe key signs before we're going
down a rabbit hole.
Once you're going down a rabbithole, therapeutically it's
harder to come back to surface.
If you have early detection andyou have early awareness and I
(09:11):
talk about how to detect that inthe book that is going to be
key to helping the transitionsmoother and out before going
deeper into a dark place.
That early detection awarenessis super helpful therapeutically
before it gets to a point at acontrol point.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Absolutely Basically, understanding your triggers yes
, yes and knowing how they feelin your body.
I am so glad that that is inyour book, because, to me, if
you don't know your triggerswhich is step one right then how
do you figure out how to cope,yes, and then not end up feeling
that way again?
You know, we're 27 days awayfrom Christmas and people
(09:55):
experience that seasonal fatigue.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
How does that fit into this topic of stress?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
You know, not just seasonal fatigue but financial
fatigue.
I'm hearing a lot of thatcoming up in my sessions.
A lot of people around thistime have a lot.
They feel like they can't do asmuch as they want to do
monetarily for their kids andthat really stresses a lot of
parents out.
When that becomes a part of thefamily dynamic it's very
(10:23):
challenging to overcome and weknow we're having these
conversations and sessions rightnow about financial stress
Because everything not just noteven with Christmas coming or
holidays coming just witheverything just skyrocketing up.
Everything is so expensive andpeople now closer to the
holidays is becoming more andmore concerned.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Absolutely.
And a lot of times we place somany expectations on ourselves
yes, that we're expected to dothis or do that and a lot of
times things are out of ourcontrol, like right now, the
cost of groceries we can'tcontrol if they go up the cost
of gas.
So, like you said, thatfinancial stress, it fluctuates,
(11:05):
and so many of those factors wedon't control.
We don't control.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But there is things that we can control.
Is the feelings taken away fromit Like I have a lot of parents
like having parental guilt.
You know, when we start doingthat, especially with parents
that have young kids, you knowwe start to lose sight of the
essence of what Christmas isreally about?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yes, thank you so much for sharing, and now this
topic is going to lead us intoburnout.
Can you tell us a little aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So, yes, burnout is the emotional and physical
exhaustion of excessive,prolonged stress.
So stress is one level andburnout is a higher severity of
level than stress.
And when we think about burnoutwe usually think about job
burnout.
Burnout can happenprofessionally and personally.
It's definitely very much sopart of ability.
(12:02):
When you're unable to meet highdemands, it definitely zaps
energy levels, it threatens yourjob, it threatens your health,
it threatens your relationshipand it's a feeling of not being
enough, not doing enough,feeling empty and devoid of
motivation and beyond.
I think that burnout is anotherlevel of stress prolonged
(12:24):
stress, because stress canhappen immediately and can not
last that long, but burnout is aprolonged stress.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
It's more threatening .
Yes and the first responders.
They're more prone to theburnout.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They are.
They are more prone to burnout,but they're even more prone to
compassion fatigue, more so thanany other profession.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Let's move on, then, to the compassion fatigue.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So compassion fatigue I love this term because I
experienced compassion fatigueduring COVID and I'm still
experiencing a little bit of theaftermath of it as a therapist
and anybody who is a firstresponder or a service provider,
people that I help, people whohelp other people so that's the
(13:15):
niche of my practice and peoplethat help other people prior to
focusing on their own needs, aremuch more prone to compassion
fatigue.
Whether you're a serviceprovider, whether you're a first
responder, whatever the casemay be, the difference is it's
different type of exhaustionthan burnout, than stress, and
it's continuously kind of givingof yourself, feeling depleted.
(13:39):
But the one thing that happensin compassion fatigue is feeling
completely apathetic and it'shard to be a first responder or
a caregiver or a serviceprovider and provide effective
services when you're feelingapathy.
Apathy is like the act of notcaring.
So that's why compassionfatigue is the negative costs of
(14:01):
caring.
You're outpouring so much as afirst responder and service
provider that you're feeling sodepleted that the care now is
jeopardized because there's alack of compassion.
So that's why compassionfatigue is a term coined, first
coined in the nursing industry.
Charles Fiddley coined the termand he coined it because it's
(14:22):
not only a physical andemotional psychological impact
of helping others.
It also has to do withsecondary traumatic stress,
trauma that only firstresponders see, only service
providers here and see.
That's another higher severityelement to compassion fatigue.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, until we started to have this
conversation, I was not familiarwith compassion fatigue, so you
have educated me so muchalready and I know that there
are people listening that afteryou just described it are like,
oh wait, that's me.
Yeah, I understand now.
(15:01):
That's what's going on.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Just so you know the reason why I'm so passionate
about this.
This is because I experiencedit myself as a clinician, but I
also because my niche in myprivate practice is helping
people that help other peoplefirst responders and service
providers mainly that I helpthem to help their staff, their
(15:24):
clientele, their patients, thecommunity to become more
effective one giving care.
So I saw on both sides of thecoin one experiencing it
personally and one helpingpeople out professionally.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Can you share if you're comfortable with your
experience then, and how youhave helped yourself get through
this compassion fatigue?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Honestly, jen.
In the book it's outlined sevenno-brainer strategies that
first responders and serviceproviders must do there, must do
, and so there's seven thingsoutline.
I do an eclectic of things.
I realized that I needed to dosomething to help myself, and
not nothing maladaptive, notthese vices that are set up to
(16:14):
help short term but then becomean additional issue, like the
vices that we talk aboutexcessive sex, excessive
gambling, excessive drinking,excessive drug use, marijuana
use, all this stuff that we usein excess to numb to deal in the
short term, and those are allmaladaptive.
They're all vices.
So instead of leaning intothose, as a therapist I know not
(16:38):
to do that, but I'm also aperson as well.
So I decided to have a eclectic, different type of eclectic
toolbox.
For instance, I wake up earlyin the morning and before I
start my day, I say a prayer.
I make a prayer every Sundayfor the week and I say it out
loud before I start my day,every single day, with a cup of
(17:01):
coffee.
One cup, one cup of coffee.
I don't have one cup of coffee,I can't even say a sentence.
So I have one cup of coffee andmy prayer.
That's the first thing.
Then I go for an hour walkevery single day, even on the
weekends.
I go for a walk every singleday and I have a meditative walk
(17:23):
with myself, meaning I canthink about everything.
I usually think about my weekbecause I don't want to get
overwhelmed and put myself inanxiety patterns.
So I think about just the weekahead, I think about my day, I
think about what I'm going towear, what I'm going to eat, I
think about how I'm going tohide, how I want the day to look
for me.
So it's a premeditative walkwith self in nature, only in
(17:47):
nature, and then I start my day.
I start my day and that sets myday up for success Doing those
things I think in AM routine.
A PM routine is super helpful.
That AM routine always sets meup for success.
And then I go through my dayand I have a pretty long day On.
Sundays is my day, my self careday.
(18:10):
Sundays is when I do my reading.
Sundays is when I write out mydevotional.
Sunday is when I meal prep.
Sunday is when I take care ofmy hygiene.
I wash my hair, I shave, youknow stuff like that.
Sundays is my day.
For me, it's my self care dayIf I provide mental health for
(18:31):
other people, try to providegood mental health for people.
I got to be walking the walk.
I also have to have good mentalhealth.
I also have a therapist.
I have a therapist to help me.
I have a business coach thathelps with my business.
I have professionals that helpme when I may need the help.
I have therapist friends.
(18:51):
I have formal and informalsupports.
I have a good social network.
I have a loving family.
Those are all very importantthings to put in place.
So you are completely, 100%balanced when you are trying to
give care, whether it be a firstresponder or a service provider
(19:12):
or just caring for your parents, an older adult Very important
to have a clinic.
You can't just have one thing.
You have to have a multitude ofthings because there's so much,
so much struggle.
The people are just reallystruggling and one thing is not
going to be an one-all fix-all.
You have to have a toolbox ofthings.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I love that.
Different avenues For you.
You found creating that routinein your morning to be
beneficial, being intentionalabout your self care and putting
yourself first and allowingyourself to put yourself first,
because a lot of people thehelpers, they don't know how to
(19:54):
put themselves first.
They're not trained, they're nottrained to Correct, correct.
I'm listening to you and yougive me hope.
I don't have the compassionfatigue at the moment, but my
heart is filling up and I waslike gosh.
I feel hope and I know whenother people listen to this,
(20:16):
your passion, your authenticity,your I've been there comes
through in your voice, in yourwords and your recommendations.
So thank you, you're welcome.
Thank you for recognizingAbsolutely.
You know we talked aboutroutine and for a first
(20:36):
responder.
Every morning they walk outthat door.
They don't have a routinebecause every call is different.
They don't know what they'regoing to walk into Exactly.
How do you help someone withthat type of a schedule, if you
will.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, having some type of personal routine may not you
may not be have a structureprofessionally, because you
absolutely don't know what kindof call you're going to get, or
how you're going to bejeopardized, or what your safety
is or what you're grieving tosee.
You don't.
You don't have thatpredictability.
So you have to be prepared forjust about anything as a first
(21:18):
responder, and so in yourpersonal life, you can you have
more control.
You do have a little bit morecontrol, though in places where
you do have more control,utilize that, like in your
personal life, in order to be asmuch as you can, professionally
, mentally, prepared for theunknown.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I think that's great advice Control what you can
control.
I think we would both agreethat there is more of the mental
health, the coping skillstraining needed for our first
responders and 911 dispatchers,and nurses and caregivers.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Absolutely, and it really falls on progressive
cities and municipalities andhospitals and organizations to
really take care of theiremployees mental health, and the
way a city or a company can dothat is providing an employee
assistance program through theirHR department where they are
getting free counseling.
(22:14):
Insurance is good for theirmental health.
But the company that theirorganization, the city, the
hospitals can set up,understanding that a day off
shouldn't be explained as to whya service provider or first
responder needs to take a dayoff.
They just do because of thefield that they work in.
So it's having progressivecities, municipalities and
(22:37):
organizations and hospitals andadministrative people in
position of power.
You really understand that thisis a really big thing and it
just trickles down atop.
It can really benefit and I'veseen some cities in my area that
are real progressive and their,their employees, feel very much
well taken care of and they doa better job because of it.
So and I see other cities thatdon't they don't.
(23:00):
The burnout rate and capacitypast fatigue is higher.
It has to start.
It starts for I could startwithin with your own individual
work, but collectively andcollectively and macro level it
needs to start with the higherups in these municipalities and
needs to start higher up inthese hospital administrations.
(23:21):
It needs to start higher up andit have a trickle down effect,
so the employee feels thatthey're worthy and they're
valued Absolutely and, like yousaid, it starts at the top.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
They're the ones that are the decision makers that
can decide hey, we need toimplement this.
There is a need.
I think that recently there hasbeen more of a spotlight put on
the mental health of our firstresponder.
Certainly not enough.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
No.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
The conversation has started.
Oh my gosh, this book is goingto be a great asset as well,
especially in those areas wherenobody's ever talked about it.
Now you're like here, here's aresource, here's a tool like
this is really what's going onand here's how we can help.
Many times for our firstresponders, they're afraid to
(24:11):
ask for help Absolutely yesbecause they're afraid of losing
their job.
They're afraid of losing theirjob.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
They're afraid of personally looking weak.
There's a lot of fear and a lotof still stigma specifically
with this, with thisprofessional niche, a lot of
stigma that's placed on them andthat's why peer-to-peer
counseling is very important too, for first responders is
because they lean into eachother more than they would a
professional intervention.
So that's why peer-to-peersupport groups and peer-to-peer
(24:42):
people that know exactly likewhat they're feeling in the
moment, what they're feeling.
It is important to alsodebunking and destigmatizing
mental health in general, notjust with first responders or
service providers that thinkthat going to a mental health
professional makes you lookvulnerable and weak is really
debunking that myth.
(25:03):
Actually, it's a sign ofstrength, it's a sign of courage
and making that call is alwaysprobably the biggest, most
anxiety-provoking thing ever.
And stepping into the firstsession is having a therapist
who will take all calls, notjust, you know, having just go
return the calls actually andknowing that the first call is
(25:25):
the hardest call, and therapistsalso realizing that the first
session is the mostanxiety-provoking session, and
having compassion in those areas.
If I can't, jen, if I can'ttake on clients, because I have
a high caseload, because thisyear I had to hire somebody to
help me in my group practice,which has been amazing.
She's been super amazing andsuper helpful with me and
(25:46):
helping me unload some of theclient numbers.
But if I can't help them, Istill call them back.
I don't care, because that callis the hardest call to make.
Even if I can't help them, Ican figure out a way to figure
out some way in which to givethem something to leave with so
they don't feel helpless orhopeless, because that call is
(26:07):
the hardest call to make.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Okay.
So that puts a smile on my facebecause you are so right taking
that first step and for many itis picking up the phone and
making that phone call and Ican't imagine doing that and not
getting that call back.
I'm so glad that you stress theimportance of that, because as
a therapist you're busy.
(26:29):
Like you said, your workload isheavy.
I'm sure everybody's workloadis heavy, but at least
acknowledge their courage andtheir strength to call and then
provide them another resource,like you did.
You have somebody else nowthere to take on other cases
when you have a heavy workload.
That is great advice.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, as a business owner, you have to constantly
assess your business and theneeds of the business and the
needs of the people, especiallyan entrepreneur that provides a
specific service for theircustomers.
Regardless of what fields you'rein, the customer's needs is
always primarily theentrepreneur's most focus and so
(27:11):
there's such a need.
And so, because there's such aneed and because I'm seeing in
my practice an overwhelmingamount of anxiety and stress,
the beginning of the year me andmy associate are putting
together stress anxiety 10 weekmodule and it's a psycho
educational group model to helpwith tools and techniques,
(27:32):
empirical evidence tools andtechniques that people can
actually utilize on a day to daybasis.
It's such an overwhelmingamount of anxiety and paralyzing
stress that I'm seeing in mypractice.
We thought that these groupswould be beneficial as a
resource for clients for backand associates and local locals
(27:53):
in the South Florida area tocome to and sign up for.
So we're putting that in placeat the beginning of January.
It's always assessing, it'salways constantly do an
evaluation of your business andthe needs of your clientele.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I love this.
I was going to ask you ifthere's a lot of peer-to-peer
groups.
So the fact that you noticethat there is this need and
you've created this program forgroups.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
We're experimenting it, we're doing it face-to-face
and we're doing it virtually Inthe same week with Michelle Page
.
It's going to be leading myassociates going to be leading
the group.
She's going to be facilitatingbecause she knows the model,
she's been educated on thismodel.
We assess a need and we have asoft wait list happening.
It's going to be a rotatingthing, depending on the needs of
(28:39):
the practice these groups andit's not a support group, it's
not a dropping group, it'sreally supportive in nature but
it's really about, like, leadingthe group with something to
implement and execute in theirday-to-day lives.
That's really the key here.
You have to have, like I said,a toolbox, and this group and
(29:00):
these things that we're puttingin place are toolboxes, tools in
your toolbox, that kind ofutilize so we stop out anxiety,
we stop out stress, we diffuseit immediately.
So we eliminate that from ourwhole core and our whole being
by practice, by implementation,by experimentation, by execution
, and do you counsel the spousesas well?
(29:25):
Absolutely.
The spouses are the ones thatthey don't get the focal point
on them.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Oh, absolutely, and they have.
I believe it's called thesecondary trauma.
Secondary trauma yes, let'stake a minute and let's talk
about that real quick.
Can we Sure sure, sure, yeah,yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So secondary trauma is something different.
It's being exposed to otherpeople's trauma.
So families, when their spousescome home and they talk about
their day, that's a story theyhave to visualize.
And that's again an example ofsecondary trauma.
Hearing about being exposed toother people's trauma, a
(30:06):
therapist, a story, a narrativeabout descriptions of things
that are traumatizing for thefirst responder a secondary
example of secondary trauma.
These are all examples ofsecondary trauma and things that
are passed down that can causesame symptoms of PTSD, same
symptomology as PTSD, just bybeing exposed to secondary
(30:29):
trauma.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Absolutely, and then sometimes they feel like they
don't have anywhere else to goto talk about it, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Exactly exactly, and that's why your social supports
your informal.
You have to have informalsupports with your friends, your
family, your neighbors, peoplethat fill your cup, and you also
have to have formal supports,professional people,
professionals.
You have to have an array offormal and informal supports
(30:58):
that can help you professionallywith intervention.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Great advice.
Do you have any final thoughtsthat you would like to share
today?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
You know, I know this is being released around the
holidays, but today is VeteransDay and I just you know my first
responders, my veterans, myretired VA's, my nurses, people
that help other people.
They're the real heroes thatthey are trying their hardest,
(31:28):
through the struggles and thetrials and tribulations that
they experience, not justprofessionally but personally,
that they have to show up.
They don't have a choice.
They have to show up and theyhave to have compassion, whether
or not they feel it or not.
So those are the real heroes.
The people that I help are theones that give me hope and they
give me.
(31:48):
They fill me up professionallyin reward.
Just a mere fact of seeing theprogress and seeing a first
responder create levels ofprogression and benefit from the
intervention brings me thereward.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's a great message of gratitude, especially
for especially being VeteransDay.
That is just a great message ofgratitude.
Thank you so much.
Please tell us about your book.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Okay, so the book right now currently is on my
website, beckandassociatescom.
It's under the shop tab.
That version is only an e-book.
It's coming on Amazon Kindleand Amazon Paperback.
Hopefully by the end ofNovember.
We're going to try to push itout.
So it's the compassion, theconundrum, first response
(32:41):
strategies for first respondersand service providers to prevent
fatigue.
It's really an educational toolfor anybody who provides care
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I look forward to that.
So I'm going to get a copy.
I just think it's invaluableinformation and it's something
that should be shared, becausemany times we do not know what
people are struggling withinside.
Yes, and they might readsomething in there that touches
them and gives them somedirection and hope and
encourages them to reach out.
(33:12):
So again, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
You're welcome, thank you.
Thank you for promoting it,because you know, obviously my
goal is to help as many peopleas I possibly can, and so this
is another avenue.
Clientel is one, counseling isone, but also research,
education, writing, publishingis another way just to educate
(33:35):
and to bring awareness to thecommunity and to people, people
that are serving other people.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Thank you so much, Michelle.
Thank you for being my guest onthe I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Thank you so much and for having me Again.
It's always a pleasure toconnect.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
You're so welcome, and this is Jennifer Lee.
I am host of the I Need Bluepodcast.
You can find anything andeverything you ever wanted to
learn about I Need Blue on mywebsite, wwwinadbluenet.
And remember you are strongerthan you think.
Until next time.
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