Sexualization of Black Men

Conversations around sex and sexuality in black households tend to be unspoken or taboo topics leading to misuse, misjudgment, and suppression.

Join the ISYB crew as these topics are uncovered with hopes of bringing healing through shared experiences.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Fetishizing of black bodies.

(00:22):
So how do you say it, Yuri?
Fetishizing.
Fetishizing.
Fetishizing of black bodies.
I'm super excited about this episode because just where I come from, being black and being
a black man who subscribes to the Christian faith, sexuality is not a topic that's necessarily

(00:43):
discussed in the black household and is damn sure not discussed within the church in a
way that normal people can receive.
And so I've always had such a hard time expressing my sexuality and talking to black men about
what that looks like in my life, right, and some of the experiences.

(01:07):
And so that's particularly why I'm excited about this conversation, just because I get
to share that opportunity because we don't do that.
And so I know for me growing up, sex wasn't a topic.
I share this all the time.

(01:27):
I share this on the last podcast.
The first thing that ever was said to me by my mom was, I wouldn't love you if you turned
out to be gay.
And I'm like, bro, what?
We're not going to have no...
How old were you again?
I had to be like, bro, I had to be maybe like 11 or 12.
And then I also remember being in middle school.
But did you even know what it meant to be gay at that time?

(01:48):
Oh, absolutely.
I'm a millennial kid.
We know what gay is before we know what sex is, which is crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But everything was gay at that time.
Everything we didn't like at that time.
That's true.
That's very true.
But yeah, continue on, man.
You were saying that in middle school?
And so in middle school, I remember us pulling out of the driveway.

(02:09):
I hope she doesn't listen.
I hope a lot of people don't listen to this episode, but I don't give a shit.
We were backing out of the driveway and she looked at me.
She was like, your grandfather thinks you're going to be gay.
I'm like, why do people keep thinking this?
I don't even know what I am.

(02:29):
And I remember my heart dropping.
And from that point, it kind of shifted how I viewed myself.
Because it didn't matter.
And to me, it didn't...
Because I wasn't necessarily ready to attack the conversation about my sexuality.
I'm in middle school.
The type of kid that I was, I was just trying to survive childhood.

(02:52):
So that wasn't even a conversation that I was ready to tackle.
I needed to just tackle me being a human and get...
Who I was as an individual.
And so I remember those conversations being very pivotal to how I view myself.
Not only when it came to my sexuality, but just really when it came to my identity.

(03:16):
And so I guess I want to ask you guys, what was the first conversation about sexuality?
And also just about sex, right?
I know sex is a large part of sexuality, but who was the first person to talk to you about
something like that?

(03:38):
And for context, when you asked that, you're just a peer, just anybody about that topic?
Who was the first person in your family?
Because I think we are all...
Because I think...
This may be your experience.
I guess before I go into that question, who was the first person to tell you about sex?
Was it anybody in your family?

(03:59):
Because it was not my parent.
Yeah, for me, it was in school.
As a kid, I think I was exposed to it.
And I kind of saw it on my own.
Like I told you before, it was just stumbling upon the channel as a youth and getting that
exposure there.
But at that time, I really did not know what I was looking at.

(04:20):
And then you start to put two and two together when other kids start talking about it.
And you know what I'm saying?
So I would say as early as elementary school, those types of things started to come about
where you get curious as to what this is, because it feels like everybody was making
a big deal about it, but nobody knew what they were talking about.

(04:44):
So that's more so the feeling that I remember getting around that time.
It was just very, very early though.
But like I said, nobody really knew what the hell they were talking about.
It's just little things that they might have been exposed to here and there.
If I'm not mistaken, I remember, tell us that story again.

(05:05):
Did we re-record that podcast?
Will you tell us about your father and your father, your daddy asked you on the ride to
like a basketball game or something?
Oh, no.
So I moved out of, this was like the talk.
Right.
How old were you when that happened?
Man, I had just turned 16.

(05:25):
So I had just moved out of our house in Pennsylvania.
I went to, I was going to school in Jersey because I wanted to play basketball there.
Something happened where it was a very new school.
So like the first two weeks, new students weren't allowed.
They had to like fix their systems or whatever.
So I got picked up to go to Pennsylvania.

(05:47):
Right.
When I got picked up, this is when the talk happened because apparently they found the
box and it had like condoms in there and you know, things of that nature.
Oh, back home in your room.
Back home in PA.
Oh, they were going through your house.
Yeah.
And they were cleaning that out.
So mom sold pops.
Pop was like, I'm going to talk to him.
So we're sitting down and he's talking to me and he's like, so we found the box.

(06:12):
And I'm like, yeah.
He's like the one in the closet.
I'm like, oh, yeah.
He's like, yes.
So you having sex?
And I'm like, yeah.
And he's like, are you using a condom?
And I'm like, yeah.
Pause.
Question.

(06:32):
Go ahead.
Were there condoms in the box?
Yeah.
Okay.
So that was a question he already knew the answer to.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
But he asked it anyway and I was like, yeah.
And then, bro, I tell you like, he was like, all right.
And when I tell you, we literally rolled in silence for like the next hour and 45 minutes
to Pennsylvania.

(06:53):
Like it was awkward as shit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was the talk for me.
Just saw you using condoms.
I guess that was good enough at the time, but damn.
Before we slide to Mars really quickly, because I want to know your experience, Mars, I want
you to answer both of these questions.

(07:14):
But before we do that, who was the first person to even mention sex to you prior to that conversation?
I had an older cousin.
So he was like four years older.
So he was like experiencing stuff.
And then like he'd be like the old wise one for me when I was like eight, nine years old,
because at that time he's 12, 13.
So he's in all that, right?

(07:35):
So basically him who was like first telling me about it and first like, but I would say
like I have a very curious mind.
So I think something about that early exposure just stumbling upon that like 96, 98 channel
when I was going through all of them on the cable box, I'm probably dating myself.

(07:56):
But I think something about that kept me curious to where I just kept like trying to find out
what that was.
You know what I'm saying?
And I think I just like ended up like, I would like surf that channel real quick when I was
like, you know what I'm saying?
So I think I just did a little bit more exploring on my own and then like life, like it was

(08:22):
like girls were always like showing their butts at a certain time.
I don't know why.
Like you told the story about that too, bro.
Like it was like at a certain age, it just like flashed their butts.
Like and you're just mad.
You don't even know what's going on.
But like just little, it's just, I can't even understand that now as like a parent, like
why the like, you know what I'm saying?

(08:42):
But it's, I don't know.
It was just very early exposure that led to a lot of like curiosity.
I guess for me, what I would say is I was, I was taught a lot by like older women, if
that makes any sense.
You know what I mean?
Like a lot of older women got me to do what they wanted me to do.

(09:05):
I feel like I was overly sexualized at a younger age by however it went on.
Like I remember I would think I was in like second grade and like a fourth grader wanted
to do stuff with me when I was younger.
A lot of times I wasn't necessarily, I wasn't by myself, but I was in like the care of like
daycare or school and all that.

(09:27):
Public care isn't always the best at keeping eyes on people.
So I ended up doing stuff different ways.
So I was an experimenter, I guess you could say like as a kid, I'm a young boy, you know,
I feel like one thing you said earlier or was that like, I usually feel like even now
that I was always horny, even like just curiously horny, you know what I mean?

(09:49):
And so it wasn't that I was always trying to do stuff because I think I lost my virginity
at a, I think a fairly average age than other people that we've had this conversation with.
But I was always doing little things with older women that exposed me to that kind of
thing.
And they taught me technically some stuff.

(10:09):
When I actually got talked to about sex for the first time, I had been, I found something
on the rare computers we could have back in like early 2000s, right?
And I was, I saw the history and I found it that way.

(10:31):
And then we had a storage unit in the back of the house and I ended up finding a whole
tote full of magazines.
And so I had stolen one after looking through all of them and you know, kind of, and it's
a lot.
So, you know, I did some research and was playing around and just experimenting and
trying to see what I had.
So I put some in the bathroom closet, right?

(10:53):
And so my stepdad cleans out the bathroom closet and first of all, it's his magazine,
it's his toast and everything, right?
And so what he says is, and this is the first time somebody's talking to me about this,
you know what I mean?
And me being consuming this kind of content.
And he's like, what is this?
And I'm like looking at him like, yo, you know, like, it's yours.

(11:14):
You know what it is.
Yeah.
He's like, all right, well, you know, you can't have this, right?
And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I know.
And I'm like upset and I'm also like embarrassed and I'm about to get in trouble too.
But he's like, if I find you with this again, I'm going to tell your mom.
And I said, I don't think he ever told my mom because one thing I didn't know is-
That's something incriminating.

(11:35):
Well, one thing is I didn't know if they knew or not, you know, that he had the tote or
not, but I just didn't want to get in trouble too.
I wasn't going to tell anyways.
But that was the first time I've gotten talked to about just it in general from an adult.
And it was the sense of like, I was like, you know, you're not supposed to have that.
Yeah.
Right.

(11:56):
And so then like when I was 10, right before I moved to live with my dad, I think my mom
was trying to, you know, not necessarily beat my dad, but make sure she was doing what she
was supposed to do to set me up.
Okay.
I remember you saying that.
To be outside of her vision, shall I say her grasp.
And so she told us right before we moved with my dad at 10.
Yeah.
Me and my brother.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(12:17):
Yeah.
We had that conversation.
She talked about condoms and all that.
And then as soon as I actually left to go live with my dad that next year in school, they
did sex ed, which was very confusing still because they tried to teach you the body parts.
And then the teacher's not trying to be awkward because it's one of your normal teachers.
It's not just a teacher that comes in that you don't know.

(12:37):
It's just, yeah, it was kind of super weird.
And you get taught through, I think I was taught a lot through experiment, experimenting and
through my experience, but a lot by older women.
And so one thing I did want to ask you guys while I was answering these questions was,
have you felt like you had ever been, because a lot of people's stories, even if it's like

(12:58):
traumatizing or not, right, it's somebody of older age kind of exposed them to this
physically and not.
So were you exposed to older, any genre of women or any genre of gender exposed to somebody
over sexualizing you?

(13:19):
Because that's basically what it is at that point when they're older than you.
Yeah.
So we'd go to trips to like, my parents would send me to DR, Dominican Republic, to spend
some time out there in the summer, like when I would like on summer vacation and stuff.
And there it happened a number of times because the girls in the neighborhood, a couple were

(13:42):
my age, but there was a couple that were older.
So in that instance, they were like, I think like three and four years older than me and
one kind of like got on me in the way that I told y'all about my first experience to
where it was like, I did not want you on me.
And she weighed like more than me.
I don't remember that.
I don't remember the details.

(14:03):
I didn't explain the details.
So it was like kind of forceful at all.
Like nine.
Okay.
You feel me?
She was probably like 13, 14.
Kissed me.
Right.
Did not want that.
But I got up, everybody like, it's treated like a joke or whatever.
So I don't really know how to feel, but whatever.

(14:24):
I just kind of brushed past it.
And there was a girl that I did like at the time and she was like around 13 and I was
nine and then she had kissed me.
And I was like my first ever like tongue kiss.
And I was like, mind blown.
I was like, man, I'm a man now or whatever.
But you know, even in that case, it's like two different scenarios, two different.

(14:45):
In one case, I actually was a participant.
The other one, I was kind of just like, why the hell am I even in this situation?
But both older women too.
So yeah.
Even, yeah.
I mean, not the but, but to finish that statement on like how I feel like I've always been overly
sexualized by older, you know, women.

(15:08):
Even like when I'm a grown man now, like to sort of think almost 30 now.
But women that watched me grow up would, you know, you see that they have interest in you
by different ways and stuff, which was really weird in my 20s noticing that.
I was like, hey, we used to call you Auntie.
So, you know, and that kind of like is what's confusing as a young man kind of growing up.

(15:34):
So did I have moments where or interactions where like I was with an older cousin, right?
Where there was a sexual interaction?
Absolutely.
Right.
I feel like in black culture, your cousins like are generally like, I hate to say it

(15:54):
out loud, but like it is what it is.
It is what it is.
Like your cousins and they generally or your or the friends of or, you know, kids of your
parents, friends, they're generally your like first interaction.
So like, have there been those moments?
Absolutely.
Do I feel like black culture does a terrible job of over sexualizing black men and black

(16:18):
children in general?
Absolutely.
Because before you talking to me about my body and like what it looks like to honor
my temple and what it looks like before I even begin to explore who I like.
Right.
You're talking to me about like, you know, you got uncles like being like asking me if
I got a girlfriend and it's like, I don't even really.

(16:39):
I'm trying to play basketball.
I was playing soccer.
You get what I'm saying?
I'm just trying to play Yu-Gi-Oh!
You trying to, you know, and so I think they, you say, he said, Tremaine said no Yu-Gi-Oh!
Pokemon, you know, like all of that.
I'm trying to be a kid or it's like, or they're forcing you to go chase them too.
Or, or even when you look at, I've heard stories of women being like, I would get a spanking

(17:06):
for doing a cartwheel because I had on the skirt as a kid.
Right.
And they get the total opposite.
Exactly.
Like they, they, they obligate, obligate.
Exactly.
So that, that, exactly.
So that makes us, that over sexualizes us in general.
Right.
Whereas where we begin to kind of like lose respect for who we are and gain respect for

(17:31):
like what we suppose, how we're supposed to like govern ourselves.
Right.
Which I think one needs to be taught before it's the other is taught.
You need to be taught when it comes like to sex, sexuality is the expression of like your
attractions.
Right.
And sexuality is the expression of your attraction to other people.

(17:55):
Like what, what it looks like for you during sex.
You know, and so I think when it, when, when we're having the conversation about sexuality,
like we need to first have the conversation about what it looks like to honor the temple.
You know, and then right after we talk about honoring the temple and like before we talk

(18:16):
about what you're going to chase and who you're going to be with or what your future is supposed
to look like with said partner, why aren't we teaching our young people, you know, how
to love themselves fully when it comes to like sharing yourself.
And so I guess I want to ask you guys, being dads, being fathers.

(18:40):
And now looking back at yourself as you know, what would you have, what, what do you feel
like you should have told somebody should have told that young man?
Like when it came to sex, like if you could rewrite that story, when it came to that part
of the story.
Yeah.
So I could go back to the story with my dad and like that kind of, we had a whole hour
and a half where we could have talked about stuff.

(19:01):
Right.
Right.
And I feel like that hour and a half in silence, it was, it's so confusing and crazy to me
because it's like, that's it.
You feel me?
Like nothing else.
Like I guess I got to just figure this out.
This is how humans come in the world.
I just got to figure this shit out.
All right, cool.
But like in that talk, I just experienced like, like you don't have to go into detail,

(19:24):
but like, yo, tell me where you messed up at.
Tell me what lessons you've learned.
Tell me how I don't like things that I can use to navigate.
Give me a little bit of wisdom here so that I can step into this.
You know what I'm saying?
I could step into this knowing more.
Right.
And I'm not falling into any traps.
I'm not unaware.
Right.
And then you just go about it.

(19:45):
I think, I think the reason why we're not honoring or we as a culture don't honor our
temple is lack of information.
We're not taught or basically anything.
Right.
So when it comes to that, it comes from us just finding out, experimenting, experiencing
and just living life in that sense.
And I feel like it should not be such a taboo topic.

(20:08):
So I feel like we could have talked about so much more just giving game on like, yo,
watch out for the, you know what I'm saying?
Watch out for this.
This is, you know, qualities of a woman that you, you know, that you might want to look
out for and be with.
These are what you want to look out for and then not, you know, the road you might not
want to take.
Right.

(20:29):
So just a lot of different things.
So your question again, it's I've taken that and with my son, it'll just be first is just
educating him on his body.
Yeah.
Right.
Then instilling confidence in himself as he continues to get older.
Like the main thing is to continue to educate at his pace because we can't, it's not, we

(20:57):
can't sit here and be like at seven, at nine, at 12.
We're going to know like it's like, once he steps out of the house and he's like in school
and things of that nature, he will, he's out of our environment.
Now he's exposed to whatever these other kids are exposed to or whatever he sees or experiences

(21:18):
outside in this outside world.
So now he's, we don't know exactly all the information that he's, he's like gathering
throughout the day.
So it's on us to meet him where he's at and educate him immediately on things like when

(21:38):
it comes to sex on what it is that he's experiencing, answer any questions that he has as honest
as we can and build that trust within one another so that he doesn't feel like he has
to figure it out on his own.
Right.
He has a safe space to come to and be like, Hey mom, Hey dad, I have this going on, you
know, or I really like this girl, you know, I'm confused on how to go about it.

(22:01):
Like just to build the trust to talk about it.
Because I feel like another thing is, is we're not taught like intimacy and love past sex,
you know, in a lot of cases too.
So just kind of getting into that and teaching like, Hey, love has more value than sex and
we have more value to sex than our physicality and our genitalia.

(22:25):
Like it's more to it than what we've been given in terms of information.
So just being very open meeting him where he's at and just really building that trust
so that he can continue to not only have a safety net when it comes to that and so that
he doesn't feel alone, but also so that now that he's not only respecting himself, but

(22:48):
whoever he he's laying with too.
So that's dope.
Just from the aspect, because I know that like a lack of relationship with parent can
strongly impact your sexuality based off of like what you have impressing you.
And so that relationship, you know, with young people in general and being honest, I think

(23:15):
you said that being honest is the biggest thing.
I think for me, that's what I just would have really, really respected more is honesty.
And we talked about that on the last podcast where, especially with our mothers where it
was like we know that they were trying to protect us.
But actually the effect of the protection had like a larger, longer lasting effect.

(23:36):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And so Mars, I just guess when I ask you that that same that same exact question, I don't
know if being specifically a parent has anything to do with talking about it because we just
need the right person most of the time, but parents have the distinct task of supposedly

(23:59):
doing it as you know, as their kid grows up.
But the parents, like even when you're a single parent, you can get the right people in the
space like mentors and different things like that.
It's just up to you to to get them that information.
It doesn't have to come from you.
But for me, I would say that in itself is learned knowing that when you're when you're
trying to teach.

(24:21):
But like Yuri kind of hit the nail on the head when he was talking about what you mentioned
was what it looks like during sex technically.
You're not telling them why you're showing them porn or anything like that.
But you want to beyond the sex, the physical sex is way more than physical.
It's a mental thing.
And then once we start teaching the mindset of sex, I think they will start understanding

(24:44):
a little bit more.
And are you saying this is what you wish you would have received as well?
Oh, yeah, easily.
Oh, absolutely.
I think it's one of the things that if I want to teach it this way, because it's such a
taboo topic like you mentioned earlier, not don't make it a taboo topic, make it a topic
of of growth.
Right.
Like the things like you're supposed to be technically teaching when you're growing up

(25:05):
hygiene.
Right.
Take a shower.
Brush your teeth.
Hey, make sure that you're taking care of your body.
Make sure you love your body.
You understand what are you looking at when you look in the mirror?
Different things like that.
Looking at your body to notice when things are different.
And different cultures like ancient Chinese cultures, not even just ancient, but in different

(25:26):
religions and as they're doing their growth, like when they hit certain milestones, they
have ancient scrolls and stuff where they'll teach them sex positions and different things
like that.
And this is not necessarily coming from the mothers coming from the whatever the school
or whatever where the women are at that age group.
You see what I'm saying?
It's just shows how weird our Western Hemisphere is where we're just allowing parents uneducated

(25:52):
to just go do random things.
And then we don't think that it's going to affect our kids third, third hand or second
hand.
You know what I mean?
And so that's what I think that we end up in a lot and that we got in our generation,
of course, when our parents are figuring out how to live, finally getting certain civil
rights.
You know what I mean?
And then kind of trying to be free and be parents as well.

(26:15):
So I really do wish I was taught that it's more of a mental thing than a physical thing.
STD is more of a mental thing, you know, not just physical and babies because I don't I
feel like this.
I think Yuri can only really understand, but I think you were one of those people that
could understand without having the physical thing happen to you.

(26:39):
But sometimes you need the physical thing to happen to you.
And so when I got and I like being upfront about I've had an STD before it was a curable
one, but you know, just having STDs and talking about them is the reason it spreads so much
because we don't talk about them.
So we don't sell people, you know, like we should.
Things like that is why things spread and go downhill quickly.

(26:59):
Thank you for sharing that.
One of the things that I wanted to ask you guys when it came to this topic in regards
to sexuality, you mentioned Mars, like how sex is such a taboo topic when it comes to
black culture.
All of it.
All of it.
Right.
And so it's been hard for me to discuss my sexuality, not even in the sense of who I'm
attracted to.
Right.

(27:20):
And me expressing the fact that I don't necessarily want to be labeled because I'm I'm on this
journey to actually like figuring out who God wants me to be with.
Right.
And like knowing that God has a specific partner for me.
But why do you think it's so hard for black culture and especially black men to talk about
sexuality in spaces like this, because I even find myself being a little timid to talk to

(27:42):
you guys about what that part of my life looks like.
Like why do you think that it's hard for this space?
That's easy.
Fear of judgment.
Yeah.
Societies through societies.
Social conditioning.
You know, and not having the actual space.
This is a rare space.
We keep saying, I see you, bro.
It's different.
It just is.
There's nothing like this really anywhere.

(28:03):
So just not even having the space to feel comfortable to be like, hey, man, I want to
try this.
Right.
I think about this.
Right.
Just friends.
Right.
Like, should I go and try that?
We've had mad conversations.
And it's kind of hard to even have that in your everyday guys circles talking about football
or, you know, I mean, oh, man, just go get some money or go get some chicks.

(28:27):
You know what I mean?
It's like, and that's how I feel like I've always had conversations in about.
And then when I try to step out of the norm into taboo topics, I'm not comfortable.
Right.
And so like, I think that's really the biggest thing is fear of judgment.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
What about what you think?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it has to do with social conditioning to a bit.

(28:49):
Just what's deemed normal and what's deemed not.
And then you kind of feel like an outsider if you like anything that's outside of what's
deemed normal.
Right.
So I think, you know, fear of judgment from others, you don't know how you'll be received
or perceived by those that, you know, you tell things about you.
So you kind of just don't talk about it.

(29:09):
Unfortunately, it's making those things normal.
But not in the right way.
Not in the right way.
We want to make it in the right way to where we're talking about these things in the right
spaces.
In a candid way.
Right.
In the right spaces.
In an informational way that you can leave with.
And that's what we speak about.
It's like if you're a creator out there, if you're producing something for the world,

(29:32):
have people leave with something because nobody, they're not leaving with something that they
can genuinely use for their betterment.
Yeah.
They might be able to identify certain body parts a little bit more loudly.
Yeah, because sharing your body is not a joke.
No.
And that's the mindset part.
It's not a joke whatsoever when it comes to your sexuality.

(29:53):
And before we hop into the conversation of fetishizing black bodies, when it comes to
black men and us expressing ourselves in a healthy way, I guess what I'm asking is what

(30:21):
advice would you give to the man that's on his journey?
We're not talking to any particular type of man, right?
Because we obviously know my story, right?
Where it's like, I'm not necessarily particularly comfortable with expressing every part of
my journey.
I talk to you guys about it, but I know that there's a lot of black men out there that

(30:45):
don't necessarily want to label themselves because I know when we talk about sexuality,
especially out in the world and out in the public, you're automatically labeled gay or
this.
And if you are a heterosexual male, you need to act like this in order to stay within this
lane.

(31:06):
What is the most honest advice that you could give to a black man that is coming out of
this world where he's been told that a black man should be everything like this in the
confines of sex?
Be yourself first.
Find out who you are.

(31:26):
Find out who you are first and then love on that person.
Give yourself all the love that you need.
Operate from that space because you will only attract things that align.
You will have so much better discernment for what doesn't align for you.
Find cool places, things, opportunities, but find yourself, love yourself on that journey.

(31:50):
I think you just start with those things.
After that, the road gets a lot clearer in terms of what you like, who you like, what
you want your future to look like, who that's with.
You just paint such a clear picture once you understand who it is that you are, but you

(32:12):
have to just say, fuck everything that society is saying.
All these labels, all these things that they try to put on people.
Say fuck all of that.
If there's one thing that anybody should take away from listening to these episodes is that
we are more than just one label, one thing.
We are dynamic in all aspects, so you should carry it that way too.

(32:36):
Just really candidly sit with yourself and find who you are and just give yourself the
love that you need.
I promise you, you do those two things.
I'm not saying everything will be perfect.
Everything will come to you with ease, but that road will get a lot clearer in terms
of what it is that you want and do not want, what you accept, do not accept.

(33:01):
What you want that to look like for you in terms of love and sex and all those things.
That's the advice I would give.
A little two step process.
A lot easier said than done, I promise you.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'd say that it's tough to really give advice in that you said the best that you can do

(33:25):
is be yourself.
I'm only, oh, for context, I'm only saying it from my experience alone.
But I learned through trying things as well, so that's why I wanted to put it out there
because I had to go through different things.
That's the best thing.
People have to try things.
That's the part of the journey.
If you feel a need to try pizza with pepperoni on it, man, go ahead and try the pepperoni.
It's just that simple.

(33:47):
If you feel like, and society shouldn't tell you that, oh, pizza's out.
You shouldn't like pizza.
It's hard because, check this, I'm a 90s kid.
We came from the era of if you do anything slightly off, guess what?
That's gay.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Literally, that was the era.

(34:07):
First of all, right before our era, gay went from just the definition being just happy
and merry, as in some of the old songs, to meaning that you like the same sex.
It's really weird how we define it, but I would say the same thing as be yourself.

(34:28):
Not only that, you can find your niche, right?
Find your group.
That's the biggest part.
You don't have to have labels, right?
That's what makes support groups or groups in general doing what like-minded people so
strong.
That's good.
I'm glad you mentioned that because I want to, before we move on, I want to answer that.

(34:51):
Because there are so many, I think, black people, and you know me, I'm a lot about my
faith, right?
The fact that I love Jesus Christ, that doesn't exempt me from a lot of stuff.
I'm still very, very much human.
That's just what I subscribe to, right?
But I feel like for a lot of people when it comes to religion, we mentioned it at the

(35:13):
beginning of the conversation, a lot of people that subscribe to any religion, when it comes
to the confines of sexuality, it's not discussed at all, right?
And so what I would say for people that are subscribing to any religion, right?
Shift out of religion, shift into relationship with who the creator is, right?

(35:37):
Shift into that relationship and really find out what it looks like to be authentic in
your own regard.
You know, what it looks like to shed false narratives about who you are when it comes
to this space in your life.
The other thing that you guys mentioned is community, right?
Get a therapist, bro.

(35:57):
I wouldn't even say that.
No, when it comes to sexuality, it's a part of your identity.
I'd say you definitely- Yeah, but you don't need a therapist to figure
that out.
Having a mediator, which could technically be your group.
Yeah, because like he said, community.
Some kind of mediator.
So a community, right?
But also when you're looking at people that look, when your community is people that look
just like you.

(36:17):
You can be blind.
You can be blinded.
You can have false experiences, right?
And so I knew for me, I had to kind of come outside of my community to begin to get a
lot of the advice that I got.
You know what I mean?
And a lot of that came from a mental health professional and being like, hey, what if
this doesn't say, this thing doesn't say that you're this?

(36:40):
What if you're just on this journey, on this process?
What- So more so somebody to listen to you on that
journey.
Yeah, listen.
And that's not that- Without biased opinion.
That doesn't sit in the same space as you.
And I know that's also hard for people that do subscribe to any religion, right?
Especially the Christian faith.
It's just like, don't go see, like if you get a counselor, like you are exiled.

(37:02):
If it's not the pastor.
If it's not the pastor, right?
But oftentimes the pastor going to rebuke you.
You get what I'm saying?
I'm not with any of that stuff.
So I would say like, get community.
Yeah.
I know all that.
Well, it's like some pastors won't deal with that topic.
I've had that.
And actually I left, I had an experience like that in college where the pastor was talking

(37:26):
about that specifically.
He's like, I ain't never dealt with that.
So he like glitched and moved on to the next topic.
And I left that situation feeling like I could never be loved because I had this part of
my life that wasn't like blatant or like label or like cut and dry.
And I feel like it's so many black men, especially.

(37:47):
And I know that because we're taught to suppress that side of ourselves and not even if, and
not even if you are, you know, fluid in that regard, right?
But in any regard, like you're kind of taught if you're not going to be like toxic masculine,
like don't say like sup, like suppress it all.

(38:09):
Right?
Yeah.
Let me ask you guys this because I think it kind of goes along with this.
And I was kind of thinking about this on some kind of levels, right?
In the black community, what are some kind of myths?
Because I think that kind of goes hand in hand with what you're saying is a lot of things
that people were taught or think and have ideals about sex in this, in our communities.

(38:34):
Right?
So what's some myths about the black community?
I know one that I know is that I kind of mentioned it is that, one second, I'm sorry, I had it
right here.
But if you do certain things that you're gay, right, you're considered not heterosexual

(38:55):
anymore, you're homosexual.
So it doesn't even matter what it is, right?
If you step outside the way I'm, yeah, even sexually, like, like I think, like sometimes,
like, when I would go to talk to friends about, like I said earlier, like, should I try this?
Or like, hey, or is it something that you thought about?
You're like, even with going down on women, it was a for a while, it was a very hard topic

(39:16):
to talk about within friend groups, because none of them was like, hell no, I'm never
gonna do that.
Right?
And obviously, you know, it's 2024, and things have changed a little bit about certain topics
like that.
But even things like that, they'd be like, no, bro, you're doing too much, you know,
and it would quickly shift to being, you know, either gay or just not.
Which is just weird, right?

(39:37):
So things like in myths about the black community and just the sexual natures, like, do you
guys have any of those?
Yeah, because I have, that was a struggle, right?
What I felt about my body or like just how I view my sexuality, I, of course, had experiences,

(40:00):
right?
But in the world, a lot of those experiences were with people who felt like my body should
look a certain type of way, right?
Like, and so I'm automatically approached by like, women and men asking me like, what
my penis size is?
Right?
Like, what, why are you asking?
So like, there's this myth that like, black men, we talked about it, and it's a joke,

(40:25):
but it also like, it does something to you because you don't, you don't know what, you
don't, you ain't looking at nobody else dick.
What's the average size?
And now you, now you like, am I up to par?
Exactly.
So there's this myth that our bodies should be like, where we should be goddesses.
And I even, and I think that I've even struggled with that because being on like, you know,
this the thicker side of, of, of, of guy, right?

(40:48):
It's kind of like, of guy, of man, you know, I feel like, what I'm supposed to say, I want
to say.
No, no, that was fine.
Nah, nah, it was, it was beautifully said.
Thank you.
I'm working on being honest and politically correct.
I just look, I just looked at everybody and, and saw the reaction.

(41:09):
What was, what were they reaction like?
Okay.
Yeah, I was like, yeah, I was like, okay, I like that.
On the thing.
Like, all right, I see what he's saying.
Because I, because my body didn't look like, okay, here's a better way to say it.
Because my body didn't look like the athletes or the black men that I saw on TV.
There was only one black type of body on TV.
And because I didn't look like that, it made me feel like, it made me feel like I was less

(41:32):
valuable.
And so I then became like, when people would talk, I talk about my body in a certain type
of way or put me in this category, I would go with it in order to make me feel valuable.
Right.
And so, like, that was that that what I feel like that's a myth that like, black bodies

(41:54):
look a certain particular way.
They don't even really cast certain types of body types in certain types of people for
shows because they don't, they don't want to they don't they don't want to show that
type of body.
They want to fetishize fetishize.
I still feel like that's wrong, but we gonna go with it.
They fetishize a certain type of body.

(42:16):
And I know culture has come a long type of way.
But like, to me, that's kind of one of the things that stick out when it comes to myths.
Yeah, it was that you've seen it in like movies, you see it like all around, like the jokes
that that are being made.
But I had a similar experience as well being Dominican.

(42:38):
It's like the like I was saying before we started recording, they viewed us the same
way as like, we were expected because we were Dominican and most of us were of a darker
complexion to have a similar build as to what they're being told about, you know what I'm
saying?

(42:58):
So like, they're expecting, like, your penis to be a certain size.
Yeah, you're like, you know what I'm saying?
So like, growing up, and this was like early, so like growing up, you're already like, okay,
I gotta be here, like, I gotta work out, I gotta be strong.
And like, you're doing it for this expectation, rather than like yourself.
So that myth, I think, plays a role early on, just because it is just weird.

(43:26):
Like just all those like, it's very weird, like, especially as you get older, and you
see all the subtle ways that they put that into different like pieces of content that
we consumed growing up.
Yeah, it's very, very strange.
To say the least.

(43:46):
Another myth is like, you're not a man.
It like, it was, I wouldn't even say like you're not a man, but it was always this expectation
that you had to, like, it was like a conquering, like you had to have multiple women, you had
to sleep with as many women as you possibly could ever in life.

(44:12):
Like it was just this like, yeah, and it's just like this, this ego type thing where
it's not even a myth, it's just like, almost like bragging rights that you're doing it
for, and it's like, I wouldn't even say that, it's like, you just want to feel like the
man and everybody will crown you the man if they know you out here just killing shit left

(44:36):
and right, right?
So it's just like, I would say that, not necessarily a myth, but like a pressure, a real pressure
that's put on, you know, boys growing into men at that time where, one, we weren't taught
properly about sex, like in most cases, right?

(44:58):
Two, we're not taught to, one, honor our body, nor honor the person we're laying with's
body.
And then three, we don't even have the proper information regarding proper protection, infections,
pregnancies, this, that, and you topple all that misinformation and feed it all the other

(45:20):
bullshit that we've been getting in terms of you have to slay this, you gotta go after
this type of woman with this type of body, and like, all that type of shit, like, it's
such a warped concept, and me saying it that way, kind of, we shouldn't be surprised that

(45:41):
we're here today, but I'm glad that we have spaces like this to kind of have these conversations,
because it's gotten to a point where, like you said, it's in the music now affecting
kids, well, it's been in the music affecting kids, but it's like, yeah, now it's like,
it's not even like, you have songs like, I just learned like a week ago that water song

(46:03):
by Tyler, Tyler is about squirting.
I ain't know that shit, but I bought it up, and Leah was like, yeah.
But there's stuff like that, and then there's stuff like Sexy Red, but Sexy Red is getting
played everywhere.
That's getting played, radio, club, everywhere.
So I immediately start playing the lyrics in my head.

(46:26):
See, in his head too.
But nah, it's just, like, I'd like to segue into like the media influence around this,
because it's prominent, it's been there for a long time before any of us were really born
or here, and it's looking like it's here to stay, right?
And the best thing that we can do is educate, kind of mitigate these situations, especially

(46:51):
for folks with kids as well.
But the media influence has, I think, impacts that we're not aware of just yet.
There will be studies years to come on the media influence, like the consumption of porn
and the real effects that it's had on humans, right, or social media and the effects that

(47:17):
it's had on humans and relationships and how people view just sex themselves, a lot of
things, right?
So I wanted to ask y'all, like, what influence do you feel media has had on black men and

(47:40):
has it been, I know the answer to this, but I just want to get y'all opinion.
What has been positive, matter of fact, I'll ask it this way, what has been positive and
what has been negative about media's influence on black men and sex and sexuality and love
and things of that nature and intimacy?
You want to hit this one?

(48:05):
Yeah.
Both smack y'all lips, so I know y'all finna say some shit.
Because you asked, like, okay, what's the positive and the negative effects?
All right, so I'm going to go with the positive thing first.
The positive thing is that there are more stories being told.
Cool.
I like that.
You can turn on the TV and see anything.
You can turn on the radio and hear anything.

(48:25):
They are doing a good job, even Disney, right?
Like they're showing different and they're typecasting different.
Are they doing a good job of providing context behind these stories?
No.
Because while they are sharing these stories, they are not showing the realities behind

(48:49):
these stories and what's happening with these people.
And so what's happening is you see this story, right?
You finally see yourself on TV and I see this guy who looks like me and he doesn't have
it all figured out.
He's on this journey, right?
And he looks happy.
And we know that at the end of it, it's like happy.

(49:10):
But they don't never really show me that the process there is hard as hell.
And so I'm stuck in the middle of my journey trying to figure out how to become this thing
or this in alignment with what I think this is.
And so where I think the negative thing is, is they don't do a good job of actually providing

(49:33):
context surrounding these stories and in the journey to become your best self, right?
So they show every different type of black man, but they don't do our stories justice
in the process.
They automatically show us as the product and they don't give us space to be human.

(49:58):
I've never seen a story where a black man got to be human.
There was always this expectation on him to be something else.
There probably is a movie or something like that, but I haven't seen it.
You know what I mean?
But even in just like general conversation, when I'm even talking to my friends, they're
like, he's a man, he should do this.
I'm like, you are a 32 year old white woman.

(50:24):
How do you know what a man should be doing?
You know, and so I think that a lot of people that are writing these skits and that are
getting these roles, they're not doing a good job of providing the process and glorifying
the process, right?
Because where I am right now, I don't need the product.

(50:46):
I need the process.
I need somebody to tell me, hey, yo bro, as a black man, and as a black man who is going
to be great, that's just in you.
That's just in your DNA.
Begin to honor the fact that you even made it this far and that your life don't got to
look a certain type of way.

(51:07):
But I wish the media encouraged me how to love my temple and my body and how to seek
peace within my inner self prior to them putting this thing on me.
But that's just me.
I have a love hate relationship with media.

(51:27):
Yeah, same.
Especially being a content creator.
I think it happens all the time.
Yeah.
I'll say this.
One thing you did say was that the positive side is that there's a lot more we can see.
Yeah, more access and information.
Good and bad.
Well, yeah, but there's a lot.
There's not one genre of black men that they're showing.

(51:50):
Right, right, right.
There's a vast majority that they keep showing though, which leads me to my negative that
I believe.
I'm not going to say it's negative, but it's just unhealthy sometimes for the culture and
mindset for people's journeys, shall I say.
I feel like there's a huge attack on the masculinity of black men.

(52:12):
Without getting super deep, I just really believe that they're showing a lot of depictions
of the feminine black men, or going towards the homosexual realm of those kind of leads.
The lines are being blurred.
Exactly.
Or not blurred, they're being written, shall I say.

(52:33):
When we're attacking something, we have a certain goal in mind.
That's where I think that's heading as far as entertainment and media for what they're
showing.
In terms of the influence?
Exactly.
To that point, that Cat Williams interview was immaculate.
I did want to mention that too, because you got to understand he mentioned a lot of stuff

(52:55):
that if you already know who you are, that stuff's not going to affect you.
He said, I know I don't want this, so I'm not going to allow this.
But if some people are going through a journey, it's more now you're influencing one side
now.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Yes, yes.
Now your journey's being written instead of you going through it experimentally.

(53:15):
Because not everybody knows themselves, man.
Then that money looks easier now.
It don't matter my journey, because I'm already indifferent about what I want to do anyway.
Right, exactly.
Some people just love money.
But yes, to your point, I don't know if you wanted to make more about that.
No, I was just going to say I love the interview, because y'all know where I sit in regards
to my journey of sexuality and what that looks like with my faith.

(53:39):
To be honest with you, nothing in that interview offended me.
He talked a lot about-
I was going to be like, he's actually telling the truth.
He was talking a lot about the over-set fetishizing of black men.
Yes, exactly.
That's what he said it kept happening.
Them even just making us, like you said, seem this certain type of way.

(54:04):
I'm trying to be politically correct again.
Yes, I'm trying.
Fuck that.
I was about to be like, I actually know niggas that like niggas that would never put on
a dress.
Yeah.
It's not necessarily that specific.
It's never sweet.
Yeah, it's not that specific at all.
I don't care what kind of black man you are, it's never that sweet.

(54:26):
I don't really know what media has been trying to tell, and I don't really know what other
podcasts I've been trying to tell.
Just know when it comes to the black man in this space, in any of the spaces that we in,
it's never that.
It's never sweet.
We know on our journey that it's just never going to be that on this side of the water,

(54:52):
so I really appreciate it.
There's all different genres of people.
Exactly, exactly.
I really appreciate it.
Let me ask you guys this.
As we wrap up the conversation, I want to dive into your experiences, and I want you
to give me a summary of what it looked like for you on the journey of finally becoming

(55:17):
one with your body, when you finally had that first encounter, when you found what that
experience was like up through now.
I want you to say a few lines of what you would tell yourself at the beginning of that
journey.

(55:37):
It started off against my will.
I felt like those early years, those elementary, those middle school years was just figuring
out what this was.
I'm saying that not to say this is all we thought about, but in the sexual journey,
it's figuring out what sex is really.
It still felt like for all these years, so many jokes were made, but people really didn't

(55:59):
know what the fuck they were talking about.
We were kids.
Then you start to get into high school, and now it's game time.
Coach about to put you in the game at any moment.
You don't ever know when it's about to be your time.
You have your first experiences.
At first, I would say I was a little bit shy, but it was like... I was just like, oh, this

(56:25):
is not a fire drill.
It's a real thing, and you're just there.
You just go through it.
I was asked, everybody sucked at first, I'm assuming, but I was...
You're good yourself, man.
Yeah, all right.
You're good yourself, man.
I did my research.
I didn't know what I was doing, bro, but you go through that, and as a young kid, man,

(56:51):
as an adolescent, as a young man, from my perspective, one of my first introductions
to sex was porn.
The information I was given, and credit to my parents, so they would, throughout the
years... I didn't mention this, but throughout the years, they would ask little questions
just to see where I'm at with it.
I just don't think that they expected me to be all the way there with it by the time I

(57:15):
had left.
I feel like now that I talk about that story again, he might have not known what the hell
to say to me, because he's like, oh, shit, well, you're already doing it.
You know what I'm saying?
You're already doing it.
But yeah, it was just through that journey, those teenage years, really just... Yeah,
I was trying to knock everything down, bro.

(57:36):
I was 14, 15, 16.
I was going crazy.
Then I go to college, and I got kicked out, because I was just having way too much fun
partying and drinking.
All those things, I say all that to say I was just lost in that timeframe, just finding
myself, finding who it is that I like.

(57:56):
Sex wasn't even a connection type of thing at that.
It was just more like an experience.
I'm learning.
I'm experiencing different people.
I'm learning who I am a little bit more throughout this process, because with some, you build
a relationship, but for the majority of the time, when I was young, I didn't really care
for it.

(58:19):
Now I'm not just allowing anyone in my space.
I'm being very, very picky about who I'm with.
I'm no longer just trying to conquer the village.
I'm trying to go find my queen.
That started that journey.
Of course, you have some moments where you're just fucking off, because you're still early
20s.
You're drinking.
You're living.

(58:39):
You're traveling, like I was at that time.
It's just like those things happen, but my intent at a certain point was like, I want
a family, dog.
I don't know when it's going to happen, but I want a family.
At some point, it changed.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
It went from... I will say this.

(59:00):
A lot of what I've dealt with up until recently, a couple years ago, was probably more than
a couple years ago, I would say I was unaware that it stemmed from what happened when I
was four.

(59:22):
I was aware, and it's crazy because somebody on deployment, they probably won't even remember
this, on deployment, they asked me, like, why are you such a savage with women?
I was like, y'all really want me to be honest?
I was sexually abused when I was four.
I told them this.

(59:44):
At that time, they were like, yeah, but that doesn't mean that... I just stopped talking
because in my mind, I was just like, what the fuck do you mean that doesn't... What
the fuck?
Who are you to tell me how I'm supposed to feel about this thing that I haven't even

(01:00:05):
processed?
It made me look inward again, and that's what really made me start to attempt to heal from
that thing, and I was about 23.
These are different little chapters, I guess, in that evolution, but yeah.
That makes sense, yeah, because you had some...

(01:00:27):
Yeah, I want to share these statistics, and then Mars, I want you to share what your experience
has been like, because we know that it's been crazy for you as well, and so I'm excited
for you to tell this part of your story.
We've actually heard a lot of stories about sexual abuse within the childhood of men of

(01:00:47):
color, right?
I know that there are not a lot of statistics because we're not telling our stories.
We've been afraid to tell our stories, and so I just want to use this as a moment before
I step into these statistics to encourage black men to tell their stories, because there

(01:01:09):
are sons and cousins and brothers out there that need to hear these stories, so that way
they know how to handle their process and handle their journey, right?
There's a lot of black men in our support groups, the three that we had, and even the
open discussion where people spoke about stuff that they never talked to anybody else.

(01:01:30):
Exactly, exactly, so share your story.
There's an author and journalist, Robin D. Stone, she has a resource, guys, it's called
No Secrets, No Lies, How Black Families Can Heal from Sexual Abuse.
She shares ten facts about sexual abuse in African American communities.
I'll just read a few of them before I let you go, Morris.
It says, it's more common than you think.

(01:01:51):
In surveys of adults, one in four women and one in six men report that they were sexually
abused as a child.
Every one in six children, every one in six men as children are sexually abused.
So it's six men in this room, at least one, right?
That's crazy to me.
Many African Americans think that child sexual abuse is more typical among white people.

(01:02:16):
Statistics show that blacks were sexually victimized in childhood about the same rates as whites.
So and you know that black culture is really good for being like, nah, white people do
that.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
It's just that white people are actually telling their stories.
We just make a joke out of it.
And we make a joke out of it.
It's not a joke.

(01:02:38):
Two thirds of all victims of sexual assault reported to the police were under 18.
In nearly 95% of those cases, the offender was a family member or acquaintance.
Another crazy statistics is that not only are these pieces of our stories, but it's
actually happening to us by people that we love and that we know and that we care about.

(01:03:02):
And so it's something to be said, you know, about this isn't just on us.
It's about the people that you let into our lives.
And it's about how we're being protected as young people.
That's why I'm very careful about who's around.
You hear me, bro?
Yeah.
Like you have to like it's so it's 95% of those cases.

(01:03:25):
I think that's why poverty, which contributes to violence in many communities is not seen
as a risk factor for child abuse.
Abuse is more likely to be reported among low income families, but is virtually undetected
in families whose money or status shields them from the authority.
So you think it's just in low income families and poverty?

(01:03:47):
No, it's happening everywhere.
But people just are covering it up and aren't telling the stories.
The last one that I want to do is boys are also abused.
About 14% of all young victims of sexual assault are male, according to police reports.
20% of sexual abuse of boys is committed by women.

(01:04:10):
Among African Americans, homophobia perpetuates the denial of sexual abuse of boys, which
means we just said all of this.
We just said all like it's not being reported.
And that's crazy to me.
And that's why we want to.
That's why it was important for us.
And just like only thing I'm sorry, but the only thing I can think about is of that 14%,

(01:04:35):
right?
How many of the like how much of that goes unhealed through life and then passed down
and passed forward?
Like how much of that goes unhealed throughout life?
And from that one incident, traumatic experience, right?
Just think about like the effect, the long lasting effect that it has on just that one

(01:05:01):
human being.
The web of traumas that they're causing.
Yeah, basically like how it stems out.
You weren't even aware of the possible why can't you heal from it essentially is kind
of what you're.
Yeah, like I just.
Until you were aware of to think of it.
Yeah, I didn't.
I didn't know why I couldn't like I would refuse to commit like I didn't know.

(01:05:28):
I would refuse to commit like I'll find any excuse not to commit like in my early teen
years, like early 20s.
And I didn't know why until I made that realization like I need to be control.
And if I allow myself to be vulnerable, I am then giving up control, which I refuse
to do at this moment in my life.

(01:05:49):
Right.
And it wasn't until I came to that realization and started that that journey to heal from
that that I started making those realizations like, oh, OK, so you're like any sexual trauma
you went to impacts your life, especially your sex life.
I promise you.
Yeah, especially if it goes unchecked.
So the best thing you could do is identify and try to like work to heal it using whatever

(01:06:14):
resource that you that you can.
I'll say this, so like while we're talking about our early on experiences, I was I never
had sexual discipline either.
Right.
And it's not that I was taught it or saw it around, like because I think most of the time
a lot of men are either damaged, like not damaged in that way, but our heart is broken.

(01:06:36):
Like we're damaged in that way by not necessarily the opposite sex, but whatever we're attracted
to.
Right.
So I was always becoming wrecking balls and causing everlasting trauma to other people
to become wrecking balls, which is just a lot that goes with misinformation, especially
on a huge topic like sex.

(01:06:59):
So I didn't have the sexual discipline because I just didn't learn it.
I didn't learn to love my body and or to find something that was worth not, you know, stepping
out and doing all this stuff.
I didn't even have sexual discipline when I first got married or had girlfriends.
Right.

(01:07:19):
Just because I wasn't really thinking about it the way I should have.
Right.
And it was really terrible.
You know, I have a question with do you think that do you think that the lack of sexual
discipline comes from like lack of respect for oneself in that sense?
Like, do you feel like at that time, you know, you didn't respect yourself enough?

(01:07:40):
No, I'm not going to say that.
I definitely would say that I didn't care.
Like I still kind of don't really care for like necessarily like ending of something.
Right.
And so like that's like what do you mean?
Like we talked about like my life, like if we really cared for like, thank you for saying
my word to die right now, you see I'm saying like certain things like that.

(01:08:04):
So what I I know.
But what I mean by that is like I never was really having a thought of worthiness.
When I decided to say, oh, my wife is worth not stepping out and having sexual discipline.
Right.
Because I feel like I'm not the only man that's gone through this, but I feel like sometimes
and a lot of times in this space and in community events and stuff like that, women throw themselves

(01:08:28):
at me.
Right.
And not just women men as well.
But you know, according to what I like, I still have to have sexual discipline.
Right.
Yeah.
And so I feel like oftentimes the only reason that gives me that sexual sexual discipline
is knowing the worth.
And it's my wife's worth not stepping out.
My wife's worth not doing that.
But I also respect the commitment that you have.

(01:08:50):
Exactly.
And I also respect my body enough now not to go ahead to share.
That's what I was even more because I like I said, I've been through S.T.D.s and kind
of understanding it through like experience.
It's like I don't want to go through that again.
Because I was going to ask, like you said, like she's worth it.
And I was going to ask, do you feel you're worth it or owe it to yourself to have sexual
discipline?
I'm not going to go out here and get another woman pregnant at this time because it would

(01:09:12):
make absolutely no sense.
I'm not going to go and bring S.T.D. back or have one myself.
All different kinds of she's worth not this or this situation is worth having sexual discipline
in this time.
You know what I mean?
And so I don't I don't think many young men are taught that part, you know, to have a
reason to have sexual discipline, because that's really what it is like.

(01:09:34):
You should have sexual discipline.
Don't go around and do on us when the one person that's finally actually teaching you
this stuff.
They fear monger.
They don't teach you that.
They say S.T.D.s, they say pregnancy, they don't really explain those things in the way
that they can actually like I said, some of us have to go through that exact experience
because we didn't have the right people teaching it to us.
If that makes sense.

(01:09:55):
Right.
So yeah.
And that's the kind of things I would tell my younger self is to just, you know, love
yourself more.
You know, respect other people that more because just because you went through some trauma
doesn't mean that you have the right to go pay it forward.
Exactly.
Paying it forward and not just paying it forward, paying it like triple and more and more because
you never know how you're trauma.

(01:10:15):
Trauma unhealed is your action.
You don't know exactly how bad that is.
It could be that person.
Right.
So yeah.
Yeah.
So I'll share my experience really quickly and then I think that we'll we'll wrap up.
I didn't lose my virginity until I was about 19.

(01:10:38):
And then from there, you know, I started that process with no community, you know, just
kind of my own thoughts like the media, like I would find different dating apps.
I would go on the Internet like I would meet random people.
And it really wasn't up until this past year or two where I was like, what do you think

(01:10:59):
about yourself that makes you feel like you would like to share the most intimate parts
of yourself with someone?
And while the culture is glorifying sex and sharing yourself with people that have no
interest in having a future with you, are you going to stand ten toes on the fact that

(01:11:25):
you think that you're valuable enough to be thoughtful about what you would like to share?
That that that process for me and it wasn't like I was intentionally trying to knock everybody
down, but I think when the value is low, that is just an effect of of that journey.

(01:11:50):
And so I was not I was I was also trying to encourage myself that I was good looking enough.
Right.
So I subscribe to people that are, you know, fetishizing my body and and I subscribe to
like just taking whatever I could get right.
Because my process, you know, no one was speaking life into that into that.

(01:12:11):
Do you think it's like a mirror in terms of like because you spoke you spoke to value
of how you and how you viewed yourself.
Right.
But it's like in any instance, it's like once we started to value ourselves, that changed.
It probably yes.
I remember when I when I really looked at sex as like not necessarily starting to get

(01:12:32):
boring, but it was it was like when I felt finally that I was being used for sex.
And I was like, oh, my goodness.
Yeah.
Did she use me?
So, you know, and so it kind of got me to thinking about it on a different spectrum.
And that was me, you know, valuing myself as a person.
You know, which is weird.
I want to ask you guys this last question and then we can wrap it up.

(01:12:54):
Do you feel like black men's value is still wrapped up in our body and what we can do?
And how we look?
Absolutely.
Um, because I've had before because I've had people like before they before they donate
to the free yoga classes or before they come to I see you, bro, a roundtable discussion

(01:13:17):
or that's open to the public.
They'll be like, hey, yo, who's the boy?
And they'll be like, or I've had mad people be like, send train emojis with all of us
together.
Oh, my God.
Like, and actually, like, while it's a joke, while it's a joke, it's not a joke.
Like what we are you listening to what we know?
I just heard what you just said.

(01:13:38):
Yeah.
Like it's it get crazy in the DMs.
And to be honest with you and to be honest with you, you know, and to be honest with
you, I'm I'm I thank you.
But also, no, thank you.
Because if you can't listen to the message, you can't even really get around me.
The fact that it was turned, I mean, that's beside the point.

(01:14:00):
We don't even need to go.
But the fact that it was turned into what this is into that, not like people fetishize
it immediately, like immediately.
They're like, oh, oh, or mad women have been like, no shade to anybody who sent me this
message because I actually get the message quite often.
Like, oh, I'm going to sit outside the yoga class or I'm going to sit outside the the

(01:14:24):
roundtable.
No, no.
Go talk to your cousin or your brother or your daddy.
And then by that, you helping the black man next to you.
And then maybe we all can live a better life.
Yeah.
Crickets.
Yeah.
It's always going to be that shout out to the women on the ground.
Yeah.
No, because stop doing that.
Stop doing that.

(01:14:45):
If you want to talk about it, do your part.
We not sitting up here talking trash and not taking accountability.
Yeah.
And you're not going to be invited to this space and into these conversations and you're
not taking accountability.
Don't send no messages like that before you actually know what we talking about.
Just understanding that and going through that is a different kind of spectrum.

(01:15:06):
And I think that's another one of the, I guess, myths and misconceptions is that men don't
feel that they don't feel like uncomfortable when that energy is coming towards them.
We just normally naturally accept it.
And I think that's one thing that should be addressed.
To wrap up, I'm going to say my closing statement to that point.

(01:15:29):
And then I want to give you guys a chance to say your closing statement.
Did you have something, Morris?
I mean, Yuri?
No.
Oh, so my closing statement is to that point, Morris, to all the guys that's listening,
begin to value yourself.
Right?
When we talk about sexuality and the fetishizing of black bodies, we need to also have the
conversation about value and self-worth.

(01:15:50):
And I think the consensus among all of us here was that that pathway became a lot more
beautiful.
And the respect and what we attracted became a lot more beautiful.
And the experiences that we had around our sexuality became a lot more beautiful when
we began to value ourselves.

(01:16:11):
And we didn't put ourselves in positions that said, hey, you are a man of low integrity
and low value.
So I guess my last words to the guys that are listening and to the women that are listening,
you're super valuable.
Your body is valuable.
How you express yourself should come from a beautiful place of abundance.

(01:16:33):
It shouldn't come from a place of deficit.
So watch how you express yourself and who you express yourself with.
And also watch when you're expressing yourself.
Because I found that in those really like depressive moments, like that's kind of when
I made my worst decisions.

(01:16:55):
I was functioning out of a lack.
Whereas like now I won't even have sex or any intimate moments, like unless I'm in a
place of abundance.
Because I know that I'm only doing this because like I'm lacking something in my personal
world.
Trying to fill a void.
But that's not last words.
What about you, Mars?

(01:17:16):
I'll tell you the same thing.
I mean, it really does come down to valuing yourself.
So when you, I say this, a lot of times when I didn't value myself, I found myself in sketchy
situations or sus situations.
If you find yourself in sketchy situations or dangerous situations, I think you're not
valuing yourself.
Because you're worrying about temporary pleasures.

(01:17:38):
And I say be weary of temporary pleasures is the biggest thing when you're dealing with
just your sexual journey, your sexual discipline, your just the whole thing in what you think
you know about sex is not sometimes like not the right thing.
Right.
Because we're going off of autopilot and the things that we learned as kids or didn't learn

(01:17:59):
as kids.
So I said just educate yourself.
It doesn't matter how old you are, man, to just educate yourself about a taboo topic
that can change your life that could literally be the reason why you behave the way you do
in a lot of situations.
Right, right, right, right.
Or make the decisions you do or who you talk to.
Right.
So I think the biggest part about this episode is for people to re-account their experiences,

(01:18:25):
not really in traumatic ways, but in healing ways to kind of understand how that affected
them or may have affected them and how they may be affecting other people to their ripple
effects.
So that's kind of my closing statement.
But you are valuable, like, like Britain said, you are worthy enough to take care of yourself

(01:18:46):
in those retrospects.
What you've been through does not define you.
That's good, Uri.
I would say, I mean, I wouldn't be here today without things that happened to me.
So and fucked up as they might have been, I'm in a way grateful because they've just

(01:19:09):
been a part, like I say, every test is a part of the testimony.
But I will say, just because things happen to us or we experience things that were out
of our control, there will be a certain part in your life where you are responsible for

(01:19:31):
healing from that.
Because if you don't, those that come after you or those around you, those that you love
will be affected by it in a negative way.
So we've all gone through something.
It looks a little bit different, sounds a bit different.

(01:19:52):
So I will say it's like everyone out there has gone through something.
It's okay to acknowledge it.
It's okay that, you know, it was fucked up or you felt alone.
Like it was okay that it's not okay.
But just know that at a certain point, you're going to have to be responsible for your healing
in that journey.

(01:20:13):
Because if not, you will continue to act out of that trauma worse and worse and worse as
time goes on.
So that's what I'd say.
That was a bar.
That was a bar.
I just want to say thank you all.
Like a real time thank you to the fellas and for the space.

(01:20:36):
I don't know that a lot of people really understand how transformative the ICU bro space is because
a lot of these conversations, even for us, are the first time that we've been as open.
I know that I've had certain conversations with friends that I've known for years.
But like just the space in the community that you provide for me as an individual sitting
in the space is super like transformative and crazy.

(01:21:00):
So a shout out to y'all just for like creating that like just creating that type of space.
This isn't for everybody that's listening like this is not a joke for us, right?
Like we really live what we talk about.
And I think that's important to highlight and share.
I'm always going to be loud about what happens behind the scenes, right?

(01:21:22):
And like what we're talking about, we're living real time.
And that's what makes this podcast super different.
And that's what makes this podcast like a space that you want to pull up a chair to.
And so shout out to the ICU Bro pod, a space dedicated to discussing taboo topics that
we normally don't get to discuss.
It's a safe space, a space for us to be ourselves, a space for us to love on one another.

(01:21:46):
It's a space for brotherhood.
It's a space for people that love black men, know black men and befriend black men.
And so shout out, shout out to everybody listening.
I'm Brenton.
And it's number one, Miss Fit Mars.
Make sure you guys like share and subscribe.
And this is your boy, Uri, man.
Appreciate y'all tuning in and be sure to leave comments down below and share a little
bit about your experiences and just where you can relate with any of our stories, anything

(01:22:10):
that you took from this, anything that you'd like to add to this conversation, because
your words, your opinions, your views matter.
That's all I got, man.
We out.
Thank you.