January 9, 2024 • 50 mins
Embark on a captivating journey with me, Darren Mass, accompanied by the brilliant Adam Posner, founder of NHP Talent Group and podcasting maven. Together, we unravel the complex tapestry of entrepreneurship and the podcast universe, providing an intimate look into the resilience born from career setbacks. Adam's candid retellings from his exit from VaynerMedia fuels our discussion on the transformative nature of adversity, revealing the unexpected doors that swing wide open when one chapter closes.
As we traverse the peaks and valleys of our professional lives, we reflect on the crucial crossroads where career shifts and toxic work environments intersect. I share the story of my "V-day," the unexpected turn in my career trajectory that reshaped my future, underscoring the power of knowing your value and the opportunities that arise when you harness your innate abilities. Adam and I delve into the intricate dynamics of workplace culture, the significance of strong onboarding experiences, and how nurturing one's skills can illuminate the path to success in unexpected industries like recruiting.
The episode culminates with sage advice for navigating the tumultuous seas of business endeavors and personal growth. Through tales of entrepreneurial passion and the strategic savvy that comes with it, we stress the importance of adapting, the art of the handwritten note, and the value of a personal board of advisors. Listeners will walk away with a renewed sense of purpose and an arsenal of strategies for sailing the shifting waters of their careers, fueled by the perseverance and authenticity that define a successful podcast and its host.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Alright, so Adam Posner, that's my name Are you
okay with being recorded on apodcast?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So you're asking me for consent?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I am.
Well, there goes that liability.
This is I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and Parktime WildernessPhilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.
In this episode, we reflectalong an energetic trail with
(00:30):
Adam Posner, a successfulpodcaster and the founder of NHP
Talent Group.
Our topics include learningfrom the greats.
Culture is uniquely personal,popping back up when you fall
down and plan your work and workyour plan.
Listen on as we discover whatwas the fuel and the fire that
created a desire to start aventure on his own.
(00:53):
When I took a hike with AdamPosner.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
You know what, as a podcaster man who's done a
number of shows for a number ofyears, I really enjoy when the
tables are turned.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
That is a good intro to who you are.
You are a podcaster.
You are also an entrepreneur.
I think, by being a podcaster,that puts you in the
entrepreneurial category.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes and no.
Be creative, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, it's a business , there's cost, there's revenue,
eventually, hopefully, and youare also a business owner.
You own a recruiting businessin Web 3.
And Web 2.
And Web 2, the second web,we'll just call it, the OG web?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
What happened to Web 1?
You mean the AOL Prodigy whenyou made your money?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
No, no, I'm not that old.
I wish I made money during that.
I am 43.
I'm 44.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So look at that, you actually have one year to a flop
point.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So you're the elder statesman, so maybe I'll learn a
few things from you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I'm not a believer in age being like a indicator of
who you can learn from and can't.
If you get that bias out of theway, everything opens up.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, so you, I think more so than ever, you were
absolutely right.
There are kids today that canown us, school us on social
media.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I spent the first 15 years of my career social media
and, like you, think I'd learn athing or two.
No, I'm the fucking plumberwith the broken toilet.
The problem is trying to getall the shit done by yourself
Figuring out where to outsource,how do you scale, how to keep
focused on the business, how doyou grow.
It's hard, but I would neverlook back at going corporate.
(02:33):
I say that now.
The economy's not doing greatand my business as a recruiter
is contingent on the economy.
If there's no jobs, no entiring, very simple, they don't need
me at all.
So I need to find ways todiversify income.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So where do you start ?
How is an experiencedindividual like you going to
future proof the challenges thatwe are about to face,
especially with the economy,because it's not getting better?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
On this day, the 26th of 27th, 27th of October?
That's a real question, myfriend.
If I didn't have the podcast,I'd be worried Nothing nothing,
so the podcast is your screen.
It's my brand, it's your brand.
So while there's not recruitingopportunities right now, what
am I doing?
It's helping down onsponsorship, trying to leverage
(03:26):
those opportunities.
Where could it happen?
Min talks with an airline for apotential partnership to do
recruitment marketing podcastfor them to attract talent.
So basically it would be around table with employees
saying why they love workingthere, like an authentic, not
like bullshit can responses andyou don't even think about it.
(03:46):
You're like, wow, companies arelooking for authentic ways to
connect.
Podcasts are a way to do that.
So it's not an avatorial, it'snot a canned video that you're
doing.
And that's when the light bulbwent off.
I'm saying I'm good at what Ido, I'm a great interviewer.
Let's market my other skills.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That's right.
So I think there's a goodlesson in there for anyone that
is trying to discover themselvesis learn what you're great at
and really go down that road,embellish upon it and don't be
afraid to admit your talents.
So you're good at what you do.
I would agree with that.
I've listened to your podcast,I've watched it.
I do believe you're good.
Your personality is sharp,you're spot on, you ask good
questions and, most of all, youare fearless with your
(04:25):
conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think this goes back to my I'm sure you did your
research my journey real quickfor your listeners.
Born and raised in New Yorker,first 15 years in my career
working in advertising andmarketing in New York Agencies,
brands, account managementstrategy Last stop before
pivoting into recruiting,working for Gary V at
VaynerMedia.
Thought it was a holy grail.
Grass was good.
On the other side it wasn't.
(04:48):
I got Mean Girled Ooh, meanGirled.
I did not know how to handle it.
I got canned seven months in Meand Gary are boys and he's like
listen, I love you.
Other people do Not.
The right place Wasn't for meand I was like fuck, 35 years
old.
I just moved to the place thatI'm bragging about to everyone
and my mother.
This is before Gary V is Gary Vfully, and I thought it was my
(05:11):
forever job and now I'm likeshit.
Now what?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
This episode is sponsored by Business Therapy
Group.
Are you feeling lost along thewinding trails of your business
journey, searching for guidanceto spark your entrepreneurial
ambitions?
Look no further.
At Business Therapy Group,we're here to help you navigate
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Book your session with me atbusinesstherapygroupcom to break
(05:39):
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Take action now and book yourfirst session Now.
What you got?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
angry.
Now what the hell am I going todo?
Angry?
It was the lowest point.
It was the lowest fucking point.
You're not the first person I'mtelling this story to, but it
resonates in the context of whatyou're asking, because on the
way out, gary says we sat for anhour.
You need to stop focusing onyour weaknesses and double down
on your strengths.
And it sounds like you would befinding in the middle of a
fucking fortune cookie.
(06:08):
Right?
Gary just says man who cannotfocus on weaknesses should focus
on strengths.
Well, thanks, gary.
If you get the fuck out, you'refired.
No, he meant it.
And we sat there and we talkedabout what I'm good at, which is
this, and listening, reallistening, like active listening
and understanding the market.
And he's like well, if youcould do anything but this, like
what do you think you could do?
(06:28):
Like I'm like well, I'm notgoing to be an astronaut.
And he did like oh, what do youmean?
I'm going to shut up.
You did his Gary thing.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, like you're not going to be an astronaut.
Well, you won't, because yousaid you won't.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right and he was like what can you really do?
I was like, well, I have afriend who does healthcare
recruiting and another friendwho does finance recruiting.
Before I could finish mysentence he goes you'll be a
great fucking recruiter.
He's like, oh my God, he's likeyou could make more money.
You're uncapped, you're limited.
And I took that and I went tothe bar next door.
I'm not even telling you youdrank your sentence.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Well, it was so cliche.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It was first and funniest thing about that story.
It was April 1st, so it's AprilFool's Day.
Wait, you got canned on April1st.
So I called my V-day.
It's my V-day.
April 1st is my V-day.
I'm coming up on my ninth one,this year Wait, wait there had
to be a moment where you werelike, ha ha ha, funny, no, no,
no, listen, anybody who'sgetting fired.
If you don't know you'regetting fired, you lack complete
self-awareness.
Yes, obviously there's theoutliers of shitty companies,
(07:21):
shitty situations.
You know if you're not doingyour job, but you know if you're
having conversations about yourperformance.
Right, like, come on, Like,have a little self-awareness.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I want to pause you on that for a second.
This is absolutely true.
Yeah Right, salespeople isblack and white, so I have
rarely, if ever, seen asalesperson cry about being
fired.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
They knew it was coming to the room.
I didn't mind my number, sorryguys.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You know like I get it, but if you're blindsiding
someone else on the service sideor an employee and they're
crying in shock, then you did ahorrible job as a manager.
To get them to realize theirperformance needed a little bit
of support from you.
Nobody should be surprised thatthey're getting let go.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Now looking back on it, eight years later, even a
day later, I was never surprised.
I was not set up for success.
The company was immature intheir life cycle right Three
years and they didn't have thesupport that they needed to hire
on board.
Anybody in account managementknows in the agency world,
usually when you get hiredyou're placed onto an account.
Adam, we are hiring you for thePepsi account.
They hired me so fast that theydidn't have an account, so the
(08:23):
first three weeks I'm floatingbetween accounts they don't know
where to put me.
Like you know, they'reshuffling me around.
No one's onboarding me properly.
So, I was never set up forsuccess.
So long story short, I findmyself on an account with a lady
that's two years junior to me,who's very eager and
aspirational on her journey, andI came in and I was immediately
(08:44):
viewed as a threat because I'mtrying to assimilate into the
organization, wedge my foot inin conversations, get in with
the client, figure shit outright.
They took that as a threat andthen they mean girl to shit out
of me to the point where Icouldn't take it anymore and I
probably said some things Ishouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, so pause for a second on that.
So there is another good pointOnboarding a new employee is so
critical to building culture andstarting that employee off on
the right foot, as well as therest of the organization.
Any change can lead to fear ina company.
You will see your existingemployees boost up when, when
fresh blood, new meat, entersright.
(09:20):
They're going to want toimpress, but you want to harness
all of that positive energy bydoing a proper onboarding.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can't wait to talk about this?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Or else what happens is the exact situation you
became the little pup in anorganization and people really
want it to gun for you.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, and you know what's so interesting too in
this light bulb just went off onmy head.
Onboarding you could have thebest hiring process in the world
, but if you fuck up onboarding,that is the worst taste.
That's like going on a date andthe first date sucks.
It's just not.
It doesn't align.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
You can't build that initial chemistry.
No, it's absolutely terrible.
Like you and me, we're on afirst date here.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, we're building good rapport.
You're working me out.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I'm hopeful we can meet for Starbucks later.
So let's go back to Mean Girls,because I think we've all seen
that movie.
So you were Gretchen's.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Not particularly because I'm not a
confrontational person.
I think I was defensive andwhen I'm back into a corner I'm
going to defend myself.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Clearly type A person .
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
But then it turned into basically high school
bullshit and no one in thecompany took care of it and at
that point it was over.
Okay, Right.
And then the hallway peoplewere like look at me, you know,
it was like shitty.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It was like I was like fuck this so adults can act
like children all the time.
Now I'm called adults, Wouldyou say.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
These are mid to late twenties professionals that I
have 15 years senior on, and youwere the old guard Well, 10
years senior at that point,right, and I was the old man in
the room.
Like we just moved out to theburbs.
I was commuting every day andhere's the crazy thing about
Vayner.
In the early days it was Lordof the Flies, aaron Lord of the
Flies, and the only people thathad seats guaranteed were the
(11:00):
creatives and the projectmanagers, and then the C suite
right, the other offices,everyone else.
If you were not in by a certaintime, you'd have to sit on the
fucking floor.
So imagine, shitty March day,mixed precipitation, I'm wet,
I'm cold, I'm tired.
Just sat on the long outrailroad I walk over to Vayner
(11:22):
because at that time there's notrain where there's no train
going across midtown like that,and I'm like where'd I put my
jacket?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And it's like what's the game?
The kids play Musical chairsand they pull a chair away and
there's no chairs left.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's what it was.
So that would be the toxicculture.
So you come in and you have tosit on the floor and I'm like I
just commuted.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I'm 30.
I'm an adult male with a child,and now I'm coming to an office
and I have to sit on a floor towork.
Did you speak up?
No, no, no, everyone did thisRight.
It wasn't like me, the only one, it was like 40 people.
All right, so these are yourinner thoughts.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, these aremy inner monologues.
So there's a grass isn't alwaysgreener.
(12:01):
On the other side, vayner isthe hot shop in town.
You think like, oh my God, myforever job.
I love Gary, I idolized him andI got and I had great exposure.
Listen, those seven months, ourman, like I did bizdev with
Gary, I was on calls with him, Igot to see him pitch.
I sat in a room with StevenRoss, related properties, hudson
Yards, the owner of the fuckingMiami dolphins Like where else
(12:24):
do you get that kind of exposure?
Yep, where else do you get todo that?
This is a great trail, by theway.
This is a phenomenal trail.
It's beautiful, absolutely abeautiful trail.
So long story short, vayner.
Vayner wasn't it.
And I gotta tell you something,and I've talked about this
before, but I enjoy talkingabout it so I left Vayner April
1st 2015.
I didn't start my first day inrecruiting until July, mid-july
(12:47):
2015.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And that was an insane process.
So a little bit of a gap.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
First I had to come to Jesus moment Like all right,
am I going to stop right hereafter 15 years of investing time
, effort into a career and pivot.
Okay, that's the first one.
I got to get my head aroundthat.
And then, holy shit, I'm goingto have to start a new industry,
learn it and start at thebottom of the totem pole.
Fucking rookie day.
One shit, right, like to wrapmy head around that was.
(13:14):
I call that my self-awarenessepiphany.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
We went through some sort of internal existential as
well, I guess crisis.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It was the hardest moment of my professional life.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Depression, anxiety, OCD, all the cliches.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Well, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I talk about it openly.
I talk about having ADHD andall the fun that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I definitely have a bit of that not diagnosed.
Oh, you definitely have it.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Definitely have that, I can tell just by the way that
we're having this conversation.
It's your high energy and weswitch.
I do the same thing Now ifyou're with someone else that
has it, it is a completeunderstanding.
But sometimes this could bewhat my old employees used to
say was my squirrel moment.
I'd be having a conversationwith you and just like the
(14:00):
squirrel from up or the dog fromup chasing a squirrel, you're
like whoop, there we go.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And you expected everyone to follow the story,
right, but it's also hard fortwo podcasters to have a
conversation.
But I'm not even trying to patmyself on the back here.
I'm trying to make a veryconscious effort of not trying
to reach over and grab the wheelwhile you're driving.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And don't worry, because I am an active listener
and this is my job as the hostis to listen to your success
journey, and I'll interjectevery once in a while.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
What do we got here?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Black walnuts.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
What do we do with?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
these.
Where are those acorns?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Should we roast them?
No, it's a black walnut.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
That's a piece of pear shit.
No, it's like If there's a bearin this wood then I'd be
shocked.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So you're a worldly man, a renaissance man, a man
who knows a thing or two about afew things.
So are you familiar with thegentleman by the name of Navin
Jean?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I've heard that name, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Viome.
He's gone through his fairshare of controversy, but anyway
, long story long, I had him onmy show a couple of weeks ago.
He takes a ton of moonshots,certified billionaire, and he's
talking about global warming.
And he said how audacious arewe as humans?
You know, 90% of global warmingactually comes from volcanoes,
from carbon dioxide, from thetrees and everything and just
(15:15):
general decay, and we'reresponsible for only 10% of it.
How audacious do we think weare?
So we're trying to change this10%.
What if we start to think aboutchanging the 90%?
And he said listen, I'm notsaying we stick vents in all the
fucking volcanoes and reroutethe carbon monoxide and capture
the trees, but how do we think?
The Earth's space, the spaceover the Earth, around the Earth
(15:36):
?
Right, we have.
How many satellites do youthink we have up there?
Maybe close to a million.
We have a billion satellites upthere coming to the Earth.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
We have the ability right nowto pretty much map the entire
world at all times, almost realtime.
We do Right, right, so whycan't we see hot spots in the
rainforest and use dronetechnology to somehow put out
these fires that aren't going tospread to wildfires and
(15:57):
contribute to global warming,versus fighting on fossil fuels,
when you know, in greenwashing,when people don't even realize
that it takes more fossil fuelsto create the batteries and the
elements in the electric carsthan it does for gasoline, and
where do you think they'regetting the power from?
Anyway, the point that I wastrying to make that resonated
with that story said the longway is how we start to think
about problems versus solutions.
(16:18):
And like that conversation as apodcaster really got me it was
a week ago how do I thinkdifferently?
What's going on in my careerright now with the market and
putting more effort into my coreasset, which is my podcast
recruitment?
I could turn over every stone,but if no one's hiring, there's
no demand.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You did a simple supply demand curve right.
So that's where, as a businessowner or an entrepreneur, you
need to be very in tune with thecar back on track.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Here we go.
Right very in tune with pivots.
But is entrepreneur mindsetsomething you're born with 100%?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
you are.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I've always been an entrepreneur.
Yes, so have I.
I did this program in highschool called Deca.
You might have heard I wasselling ski goggles in high
school.
For this Deca program I won thestate finals.
I went out to the country.
I came in second in the country, so I always had it, that's
entrepreneurial.
Maybe it took till I was 35,instead of working for the man,
to go out on my own.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
No, so I will correct you on this.
You needed working for the manto get the best education you
will have ever gotten.
You got in front of one ofarguably the most influential
figures in our time, currentlyin the marketing world.
I can call him right now.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, not, but yeah Right, hey, get him on the show,
let's go.
Hey, gary, you want to facetime in?
That would be a great additionto the show.
He's been on three times on myshow.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
But you got a great education.
I did the same thing.
I had my first littleentrepreneurial spark when I was
nine, created a little microbusiness.
Failed, tried again, failed,tried again in college, failed,
Then finally tried again after Ihad multiple years of working
for a large corporateestablishment, gaining valuable
(17:56):
knowledge on what it's likeInside baseball man, yes, like
you have to learn from the pros.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
So think about this for a second.
Going back to what we weretalking about onboarding If I
didn't get onboarded at AmericanExpress, sirius XM, three
different ad agencies I wouldn'tknow, as a recruiter, what's
good or bad.
Amex, world class, world classthat you offer.
Success, of course, being inmedia fail.
There's an in between.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
But I think it's not off brand for the style that
Gary has portrayed to match thaton par with his onboarding and
culture process internally.
In fact it took a while.
I would say that that'sprobably pretty spot on being
true to who his brand represents.
If you're the last person inthe office, you don't get a seat
(18:44):
.
Well, guess what?
You're the last person in theoffice.
So people have asked him thison interviews.
Was that a?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
psychological experiment.
He was like no, we were justgrowing so fast, we don't have a
space and they're waiting to gointo Hudson York.
Ok, honest, but I could alsosee that by design.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And that's where we can lead into.
You have a culture by defaultor by design.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Interesting.
Right In his case it was aculture by default Right.
Versus Netflix.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
By design or Zappos.
Unfortunately, Tony Shea is nolonger with us.
That was a culture by designand it was all about employee
first.
So culture is an interestingword.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I don't define culture as ping pong tables,
coal brew on tap, especially thefact that the majority of us
are remote hybrid Yep.
Culture is how you feel.
You feel valued, you have aclear career path in front of
you, feedback, you feel likeyou're contributing.
That's culture to me.
Do people treat you fair?
I don't think I could havelooked at any better this is
(19:43):
hard for us.
Yeah, you're on an incline.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You are climbing about 50, 60 feet of elevation
in about 150 feet of span.
So let's pivot.
Talk to me about your successjourney so far.
What do you feel as anentrepreneur?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
At this moment.
Right now, I am consumed withfear because my financial gas
tank is running out empty.
I think a lot of people feelthat's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I think a lot of people feel that same way.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And I need to be able to park that to focus on I, on
the prize which is being top ofmind seeds planted when the
storm passes.
They're calling me first andthat's what I've been doing the
last four months, five months,luckily for me.
(20:28):
In the last few days I figuredit out in a responsible way, in
a low risk way, and we'll leaveit at that.
So I took a deep breath thismorning when I decided it was
today.
I made the move to take care offinances and get me to where I
need to go.
That is going to take thisweight off my chest.
(20:49):
Worse, in this hike that willenable me to spend the next what
do we call it?
Eight weeks of the year,focused, laser, focused plan,
holding people accountable whohave told me things that they
want to do in a professionalmanner.
(21:09):
So I entered 2024 like a motherfucking ninja.
Some of them will see me cominghopefully not, because that's
not what ninjas do.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Ninjas are known for their silence.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Right, their stealth Right.
So some people will see mecoming and actually you know
what?
I don't think that's a badthing because that means I've
planted seeds the right way andI've resonated enough to them
where, when they're ready tohire, I'm going to be the first
person that they call.
So like recruiting.
Sometimes you're a farmer,you're planting seeds, you're
(21:43):
watering them, you're waitingfor them to grow.
Sometimes you're a fishermanYou're throwing the net out
there, trying to see what's outthere, and you're hauling it in.
You're throwing a big trollernet and sometimes you fall down
and you get back up.
You just proved the play rightthere and you have to be.
You fall down.
Are you embarrassed, by the way?
No, no, you fall down.
Good, why are you notembarrassed?
(22:03):
Because it's not a big deal,exactly.
I'm going to take a little bitof a whole sound.
Thank you I did bend my wrist alittle bit, but I'll be OK.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, you did sign a liability waiver, but that's a
great point.
I teach my kids this.
I teach every one of my clientsthis.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
No, I just let them leave on a decline.
It's not like I'm walking on aflat surface like a dick.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So now you take it from a pro or someone who has
more.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You sidestep it.
You sidestep down when it'srough terrain.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Instead of going forward.
So I want to rewind us for asecond, but there's one last
piece there.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Sometimes you've got to be a sharpshooter and laser
focused on the target you want.
So many facets.
So back to the story at hand.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I want to rewind us, because you mentioned that money
is finite, and I willwholeheartedly disagree with you
on that.
Money is infinite.
It's a resource that you canmake more of.
If you are in tune, wise enoughand have the efforts invested
in the right direction, you canget a job, absolutely you.
(23:00):
You're an intelligent humanbeing.
You are very successful.
You've had a lot of successfulventures.
That's why you're on the show.
You are a business achiever.
You are inspirational.
You could absolutely say hey,LinkedIn world, I am ready to
work for you.
You will find money.
You will make more of it.
You can always create moremoney.
Now, yes, there are lots ofpeople that don't have that
skill set, that opportunity anddifferent conversation we're
(23:23):
having, but if you are in tune,just like you could always find
more water, at least on the EastCoast you can find more money
If you dig far enough.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
And it's an interesting point too, because I
would say that if you have theskills and ability right now I
work for myself that means Icould pretty much take those
skills and work for anorganization.
You're going to eat a big sliceof humble pie.
You're going to give a percentto the house.
That's all temporary, sure.
And I agree with you Money.
When I interview all thesebillionaires and successful
people, the common thread when Iask them about money because I
(23:55):
love to Like I asked Navin Jeanabout money and he says Gary Vee
about money, and he says moneyis the fuel to my options.
Money is the fuel to my options.
Money enables me to do things,not talking about buying a house
and cars and hookers and blowwhich you could get a lot of
billions of dollars.
(24:16):
But we're not talking aboutthat.
What we're talking about isoptions to build, to grow, so
for me money checks off don'ts,they don't have to worry about.
Right, you're taking myfamily's, taking care of All
these my people are taking careof.
I don't have to worry aboutwhat's next and but for me
that's a real scare and itdrives fear, uncertainty and
(24:37):
doubt.
Yeah, my fud factor.
It's a fud factor I'm veryfamiliar.
Oh, look at this incline.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
That on that tree is what's known as a burl, the URL,
the ball sack.
Yeah, pretty much it is aknotted growth.
Speaking of ball, sack.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'd like to thank our sponsor.
Manscaped real serious Checkout.
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That's out right now.
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Speaker 1 (25:03):
Wow, that was shameless.
I.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Mean.
I see a boss, a shaved ballsack on a tree.
It seems like a logical plug.
Well, we have my little HowardStern influence which we could
get to.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Howard is arguably not arguably is definitively the
best interviewer of all times.
Sorry, larry King, you're nolonger around.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Larry never prepped.
Howard does a shitload of prep.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, and Howard has earned the right to cut anybody
off because what he has to sayis more interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
There's no better interviewer and that's how I
kind of guide my Casting style.
So back to ball sacks on trees,darren, back to you.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So we can move fast.
That because I after that, howcould I top that?
Although if you do findBurlwood and it's falling down,
it is very worthwhile.
You can generate a lot ofreturn on that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It's a rare wood.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Extremely, you don't want to chop it down, but it is
down to ready tens of thousandsof dollars.
Hmm, so they're Burlwoodhunters out there.
There was a show calledBurlwood.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Hunter.
We killed in the ratings.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It actually did I think it was on for several
seasons.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So you know it's funny.
You go back to success and mywife keeps reminding this.
She's like you have done shit.
I'm an all of you.
I'm an all of what you've built.
She's like I can't do what youdid.
You built a brand, you built apodcast.
You've done 300.
You haven't missed it in a week.
I'm not trying to flex her inyour show, but like she reminds
me my successes because I'mpretty humble, I don't like to
like.
You built the business armgathering, oozing humility,
(26:32):
generated, generated like, ifyou put it together, decent
amount of money in the last fewyears by yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You've tenacity is my other tattoo right here.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
But you're your wife, whereas we have to call each
other significant others thesedays or partner partner.
I think it's the that's herbeing impressed by you,
motivating you, boosted you, andthen no greater feeling in the
world than when you find theright partner to do such.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And I'm equally impressed with her.
And when I got fired here'swhat happened that day, because
it's pretty critical I leftVayner was around, we'll call it
early mid-morning 11 ish and Icalled her.
She didn't believe me.
She thought I was joking.
Well, april Fool's right,exactly and.
She's like come up to my officeand she worked like three or
(27:16):
four blocks away on Madison,like really close.
It was really crazy.
Actually we commute togetherand everything and I was like
wait a minute, make a stop first.
She's like wire.
And obviously in New York Citythere's a bar open at 11, 58, 10
, 58 in the morning.
Yep and I went in black horse.
Um, it might have been one ofthose.
Yeah, like the shamrock on thefront Irish New York cliche bar
and there was a cliche, threeold men at the bar drinking.
(27:38):
Which is bartender on, you know, like weird news channel, and I
did what I did.
It was a rainy, cold April dayand I sat at the bar before noon
and I had myself a Scotcher too, and it was great.
And then I went up to heroffice, we shut the door and I
cried like a baby and she saidget it all out, get it all out,
(27:59):
because you're gonna pickyourself back up after this and
we're gonna figure this shit outtogether.
And that's when I knew like Iwas good and those three months
was my journey into recruiting.
I told sorry a million times.
Due diligence, met with a bunchof different recruiting
agencies, found the one thatWanted me for what I bring to
the table and who.
I am not a smile and dial salesshop, but one, knowing that I'm
(28:22):
bringing a roll of decks ofcontext and industry knowledge.
I'm going into recruiting formarketing as a someone who
worked in industry for 15 yearslike that's an insane
Competitive advantage.
But what I didn't know?
I didn't know how to be arecruiter.
It's kind of like real estateright.
Like everyone thinks, justbecause you bought a house, you
sold the house Maybe there'ssome renovations that you could
be a real estate agent what?
(28:43):
else I'm gonna sell but what Ididn't know, I really did not
know the art and science of it.
There's a nuance.
There's a nuance inrelationships, there's a nuance
to outreach.
So anyway, long story short,that first day fucking
recruiting, and there's a pieceof the story I talked about too.
I was supposed to start theMonday after July 4th.
On my daughter's birthday, june18th her third birthday my
(29:07):
parents are in town.
My mom accidentally spilled ascalding hot pot of water on my
daughter in her chair and sheSit in third degree burns all
over her.
Oh, we're seeing my life, yeah,yeah, absolutely worst in my
life.
And I met mom like I have mydaughter who's Like the chicken
skin, coming off like it wantsme like it wants you.
(29:27):
I PTSD from that moment I sawit she was three at the time,
third birthday.
On on her third birthday and mymom who's just mortified, it
took her obviously my daughter's11, it took her eight, took her
many years to still have toforgive herself.
No, they used them pigskinHyperdermal transfusion.
Yeah, wow, and it worked great.
(29:47):
So I tell my daughter she's,she's not kosher for Passover.
So you're really it's a reallyinteresting point, so so so I
was supposed to start and Iremember calling Tom, my, my
boss, who Hired me and believedin me, and I was like Tom, I
can't start tomorrow.
My daughter's, we're in the thefire unit at Nassau County
Hospital here and that was thelowest point and like, just
(30:10):
remember that date.
Like you talk about depression,like in the parking lot Going
home after three days in thehospital just to get a change of
clothes and shower and take ashift break in In a middle of
the night for in the morningRainy parking line, just in,
what the fuck like whatdefinition of hell.
And that was the moment I'mlike it's a real moment.
I'm like what, what, what did I?
What did I do?
(30:31):
Is this like a moment of likeall the bad shit that I've ever
done in my life?
Like I was like, well, I reallyhaven't done that.
I didn't get any killed anybody.
So we so we know yet Go back tothe murder love tray and we'll
flip a coin, we'll play thatgame, but so and that was a
moment I was like sum it up,your daughter is fine.
She's perfectly fine.
Perfect, she's the most amazing.
Perfect.
She doesn't remember it, dude.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Good.
Well, that's the beauty of time, is we tend to forget very
traumatic things.
Hmm, it's probably healthy tokeep reminding her that that
happened, otherwise it mightbecome one of those you know
Psychoanalysts.
Like this happened and oh mygod, I'm trying to see she's.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
She's aware of it.
Yeah, she's aware of it.
She has no scars whatsoever,and that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Let me ask you this first Is your mom Better and
okay?
Does she trust herself?
Where is that still a harbor?
Is she still harboring?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
It took a couple of years and now I think she's okay
.
She's okay with my son, but shewas.
She was messed up for a while.
She's going to yourself tonightand I remember my wife didn't
blame her, but in the same timeit was her fault.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
So I also had.
That wasn't on purpose, no, butthat was but that was a hard.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That was yeah, I'm good that was a hard Bridge to
cross between and my mom and mywife have an incredible
relationship and my wife notholding any ill feelings towards
my mom, like like someone hurtyour daughter Obviously it's an
act, obviously so and not to saythat my wife had hard feelings,
(31:55):
but like there was, there was alot of work that had to be done
human emotions are what theyare.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
The thoughts in your head and your wife's head
Instantly went to blame.
Anger, discussed, fear.
All of the human emotions thenprobably went through the change
management or the change.
The emotional change curvesRight.
Don't dial depression, all ofthat.
They're just normal humanemotions.
Of course you blame your mom.
How could you not?
It was her fault.
But did she do it on purpose?
(32:23):
No, and now you've healed rightproblem, though is she probably
still harbors a little bit ofthat, because as an adult, we
don't forget.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
We're elephants.
Yeah, but I've also, if we'relucky, we're all right.
And I've also I've not wantedto, I've not desired or thought
about bringing it back up to mymom and opening up old wounds,
because I don't know if she'skilled or not, so I don't know
the right path for it or if it'seven necessary.
But I'm really close with mymom, we have lots of talks and I
just that's a conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It might be worth having the conversation just
saying mom check in?
Yeah, I would.
I.
I personally would.
Now, I'm not a psychologist,but I know how people interact
and you just putting your handon your mother's shoulder and
saying mom, you know, nobodyharbors any negative feelings.
Just in case we have forgivenyou there, it wasn't your fault.
I just want to make sure thatwe've had this conversation.
(33:13):
We are clear.
You should not feel any moreremorse.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I mean this takes us into a very interesting thing
which I've been thinking aboutour, you still both your parents
, I do.
Yeah, luckily my father is 80,my mother is 77, right, so not
spring chickens, right, but theyact like it, right.
But that's amazing becausethey're in Florida.
Look at these beavers have done.
Look at the ingenuity andStrength of such magnificent
animals that have created thismassive structure.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We so this is a wooden teepee.
Would you like to take a hikeinto a wooden teepee?
I'm not gonna say no to that,yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I think this is a first, or are we looking at some
Blair witch project style,right?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
This is where we decide the fate of the murder
love tree.
Whoo, that's a look back oncamera All right let's let's do
this.
Yeah, that'll be, that'll be anature hike.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Hey, listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athightokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor or to simply drop
us a line.
Alright, back on the trail ofsuccess.
So let's give a moment ofsharing, sharing what we've
known, sharing some inspiration.
What are some tips and tricks,some really inspiring moments
(34:24):
that you can share for anyonethat is budding or sitting at
that really bad job, that deskthey hate, with an idea, they
want to start something, butthey just don't have the
question.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
So it sounds so platitudinal, but I really do
believe in a couple of things Ibelieve in.
Make should happen.
That's my mantra.
Make should happen, get shitdone, let's fucking do it.
You have an idea, do it, try it.
What's the worst that couldhappen?
It doesn't work out like youstill have your job that you
hate, you know what.
But if you die tomorrow and youcan try, that's on you, man,
you're gonna have to go to thegrave with that.
But what I really believe froma tactical standpoint, every
(34:58):
single day, my mantra and thiscame to me from Tom Hall, who
gave me my first chance inrecruiting every morning when I
start my work day plan your workand work your plan.
Plan your work and work yourplan.
Plan your work and work yourplan.
I'm going in focused and I'mold school man.
I love writing on sticky padsbecause I love the feeling, when
(35:20):
I'm done, of throwing it away,the actual act of throwing it in
the garbage and being done.
I'm gonna throw it off Versusbeing like having my notes
section on my iPhone, being like3000 things that I don't know
where I left off.
But also that notepad.
Some days there's 10 things onthere and I get all 10 things
done, but some days there's 10things on there and I only get
three done and I just feelequally productive because those
three things were the mostimportant movers in my business.
(35:42):
But I'm able to visualize those.
But getting back to the core ofit, there's no excuse in this
day and age, for the most part,that you should stuck in a job.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
There's so many options in this world.
You're literally wasting yourlife away unless you don't like
your job.
You're using it to test yourcourage, your strength, pushing
past fears, reaching out tomentors.
Use it as on the job training,make it purposeful.
By the way, just to give you afactoid, the art of handwriting
a note sears that brain handconnection and it helps you
remember.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
The other cool part about well, not cool part is
like there's also people in jobsthat they're great paying jobs.
They may not love them andthey're able to do their
passions on the weekends at homeand they love it too.
The real problem are peoplethat are stuck in debt or jobs.
Now there are people bysocioeconomic place in the world
have to do what they have to do, but we're talking about people
(36:34):
that have options.
We're talking about people thatcould actually do something
different.
There's no excuse and with thedemocratization and plethora of
free information out there onthe interwebs, you could learn
anything.
You can learn any skill, likecollege.
I still question you you canlearn about Burlwood?
I'm not, but you can.
In theory you can, but thatgoes back to, like you know, the
(36:57):
new thing I'm doing now tomonetize my experience is not
career coaching.
I call it career therapy,darren, and the difference is
that there's no like I'm notputting you into a course or a
program, but what I am doing isanalyzing what's working, what's
not working, holding youaccountable and coming up with
an action plan and giving youthe tactics and tools that you
(37:19):
need to be successful in yourjob search or your career
transition your career.
Pivot.
Based on my experience and theearly clients who are loving it,
love it.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Because that's what people need is career therapy.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And they vent to me and I hold them accountable, I
text them.
I'm like dude, did you do thisyet?
No, why not?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So you are nailing the underlying theme why I came
up with business therapy?
Because business owners fail torealize their own
accountability.
They make so excuses.
Human beings are capable ofrationale, which is what sets us
apart from the animal kingdom.
Right?
Think about it If you have asales individual and they have a
quota and they miss that quotafor a few consecutive months,
(38:03):
wouldn't you write them up orput them on a performance
improvement plan or try to coach, train, anything to inspire,
encourage or fix Right.
But the business owner, if theyare the partner in charge of
sales and they miss their number, sometimes they just make an
excuse or ignore it.
And that's where the help of aboard, if you're a big company,
a board of advisors if you're asmall company or a personal
(38:27):
board.
A personal board can come intoplay to hold the business owner
accountable for their ownsuccess.
Same thing with what you'redoing.
It sounds like you're doingwith people.
I'm a big believer that youshould have a personal board of
advisors.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I'm smiling because I have my own board of advisors.
I call it my Mount Rushmore.
I have mentors and I engagethem in a couple different ways.
I have mentors that are close,tactical, where I could call on
them anytime, and then there'smentors from afar.
Gary Vee is a mentor from afar.
I watch, I learn, I observe,I'm also able if I really need
(39:04):
to make contact, but that's likethe emergency ripcord.
But there's other folks in mynetwork Joe Mullings, Scott
McGregor that are worldlyexperienced, successful,
long-tenured recruiters thathave been through down cycles
and have built businesses, andthey built media brands around
(39:25):
their recruiting business.
So I am a more cruder.
I am a hybrid.
I don't define myself as arecruiter.
That's what I do.
Can we pause for a second andkeep recording because I want to
talk about something.
Do you remember the first phonecall we had when you told me
the premise of the show?
Yes, I do.
Okay, I think that was within ayear, within a calendar year,
maybe less.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I was less about eight months ago.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Right, so I started this in May.
And how many episodes have yourecorded?
I've recorded 36, three seasons.
So, first and foremost, kudosto you for following through on
a plan and going through it.
This is a great concept.
I remember telling you at first.
I'm like I like the concept.
There's obviously parameters.
You have to get all these showsin on the East Coast in a
certain amount of time.
But you did it and now that I'mactually doing it with you, I'm
(40:10):
smiling for you, man, becauseit's fucking cool and that's
like the same thing with, like,when I had this idea for the
podcast, it just came to me.
I'm like podcasts were kind ofokay in 2018, 19,.
They were growing and there wasa bunch of recruiting podcasts
out there and I listened to themand I'm like these are so
fucking dry.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
This is so clinical.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
It's like boring.
I don't want to listen to it.
And I was talking to my friends.
I'm like you know what?
I'm just going to record a Zoomcall because now we have the
ability to download the audioand video and my other buddy's a
sound guy and let's just throwit into a podcast.
And I recorded the first one ona whim no prep, zero prep.
And the first podcast was bornFebruary 2019.
(40:50):
And I have not stopped and Iurge you, I tell every podcast
to this set attainable goals.
My first goal was 50.
That's a year's worth of shows.
Most podcasts I don't know thestats called PodFade fail after
seven episodes because peopledon't realize how much work it
takes.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
And then the majority of those that made it don't
last beyond 20.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Right.
Yeah, there's phases of falloff because people also think,
unless you're Kim Kardashian ora famous celebrity who has
cashier, you're not going to geta lot of downloads.
It took me a year almost tobreak 200 downloads an episode.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So this is a concept of perseverance and, yes, this
is extremely daunting.
You have to have a true passion, just like you would believe in
any of your startup venturesLove podcasts.
If you don't have a passion forone the media or medium that
you're marketing then don't doit.
And if you don't have a passionto completely ignore many of
the risk factors of a normalbusiness, right, the product is
(41:49):
the podcast.
The podcast is a marketing tool.
The product is really you, andthat is different than a selling
topsy-tales.
You don't have a physical,tangible asset that you're
selling or service, so you haveto ignore some of those key data
points and push past it.
And, as you know, podcasting isexpensive.
It is an investment.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I've also figured out how to minimize it.
But I mean, look at, you have afull crew here on top of it.
Now, yes, you have worked hardand you have the ability to
start out of the gate with greatequipment.
Kudos to you to be able to dothat.
But you don't have to have thatto be a podcast.
No, I recorded my first show ona shitty $50.
Getty Mike on a Zoom.
You know, a MacBook camera,right, but you don't.
(42:31):
The equipment does not make thedifference in a successful
podcast, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athiketokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor or to simply drop
us a line.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
So, getting back to LinkedIn a little bit, it's
interesting.
Like every other platform, it'san attention economy and people
are monetizing these branddeals with influencers and it's
people like Game Assistantpeople that do it right, and
it's a shame with companies likeHootsuite and HubSpot that are
aligning with people that arehacking in an unethical way, and
(43:15):
the truth is they don't give ashit.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Why are you?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
the referee Right, so exactly.
So I came to Jesus moment aboutless than a year ago when I was
kind of calling out all thebullshit on LinkedIn of all
these cheaters and hackers, andpart of it was because what does
that mean?
Speaker 1 (43:28):
by cheaters and hackers?
Because I'm unaware.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It's very simple.
There are people that useeither inorganic growth methods
to game the system.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Like buying fans or something Buying fans and likes
For real.
I didn't even know that was athing for LinkedIn, which is an
age old social media hack.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Right, but here's the deal LinkedIn knows who they
are.
It violates terms of services,but LinkedIn chooses to term a
blind eye.
And I truly think becauseLinkedIn only cares about ad
sales and they want thatengagement metric for a KPI for
how much they can charge fortheir ads.
Okay, so quick pivot.
So there's my.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Is there anything wrong with LinkedIn being a
company and wanting revenue?
They're not in the altruismbusiness.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
No, it's owned by Microsoft.
There it is.
Yeah, I had no idea they gotbought for like a billion
dollars.
You can fact check me on that.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
So I had absolutely no idea that LinkedIn was
acquired.
Okay, well, look at that Readin them, they're all right.
That's interesting, but so thenthat's probably the exact
moment that everything changed.
And you're right, they do pushcertain people more than others.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Right, they do because I wish they would push
my content more.
I wish they would push mycontent more, of course.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
What I have been told .
My editor actually told me this.
He's an extremely creativeindividual, great mind, at such
an early age.
He brought it out to me.
He wasn't trying to burst mybubble, but he said, darren,
your message is positive.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Positivity doesn't sell People want fear and anger
and greed.
Gary Vee is the only one thatsays that he's not positive.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Gary Vee's message is straight to the face.
You know your marketing sucksthis method is better the real,
the honest.
But his original.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Well, his original shit was all hustle culture.
You're not making it work andyou know what?
The first time I saw Gary Vee.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I was at a Vistage conference with like 500
professional CEOs in the roomreal CEOs.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Real CEOs, not LinkedIn CEOs.
Yeah, no, real CEOs, notLinkedIn CEOs.
Actual CEOs of enterprise levelorganizations.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And he basically dropped.
I counted him because I kepttally, I was keeping the text 49
F-bombs.
And then he asked forvolunteers to ask questions.
The first volunteer gets up hemust have been a CEO in his 60s,
said something, and Gary goesyou know what?
What do you do for marketing?
He goes well, we have anewsletter.
He goes.
You know what?
Your newsletter is?
(45:42):
Bullshit.
Yeah Right, he was insultingthe crowd that worked for him.
For him, he was the firstperson that these people ever
heard.
That was literally a mistressto them a dominatrix.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
It's like, ooh, so they became a dominatrix, tell
me more.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
They became, choked me out, but I just Call me daddy
, it was the first time and Iactually gravitated to that
because I thought it wasbrilliant, of course, he was the
opposite of Tony Robbins.
Yes, he was the antithesis.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
He was the serum that we all needed.
He was the magnet that thehustle bros had for validation,
and it worked.
And you know what?
I am not against hustle.
No, are you kidding me?
In this day and age, if I don'thustle, I don't make money.
If I don't make money, my kidsdon't get fed, especially in
this day and age and you aredone like that.
If you can't go out and huntfor your fucking meal and your
(46:28):
prey to feed and get the hellout of this business and go back
to a nine to five day.
Nothing against, but don't callyourself an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
That's exactly right.
Now, let me tailor it to this,because we are coming close to
the end here.
Do you believe that you are asuccessful person?
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Why do you believe you're successful?
What is your definition?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
I've been thinking about this one a lot and I think
my definition kind of varies alittle bit, but it ultimately
comes down to happiness.
That's my kind of metric Likeam I happy?
Listen, claude Silver, whoworks for GaryVee, who is one of
my idols.
Claude says we've survived 100%of our bad days and that one
hit me like a ton of bricks.
So of course we have shittydays.
Two days ago was a real shittyday for me when a big deal fell
(47:11):
through.
But guess what, I went home.
I have a loving wife, lovingkid, universal theme here, and I
was like you know what?
I'm good, I sit in my office,this studio that here's another
fun one.
I look back on episode one ofthe podcast early in my days of
being a solopreneur in a we worktype place on a zoom call.
And then I fast forward toyesterday when I'm recording in
(47:33):
my own studio that I built, withlighting and cameras and a
roadcaster too and $1,000 worthof equipment.
I'm like, yeah, it's not thevalue of the equipment, it's the
fact that I kept doing it tothe point where this is
necessary for the quality ofshow consistency and, like the
reps, you put in the reps andI've landed on stages in the
(47:55):
last two years that I've onlydreamed about and has ignited
the fire in certain areas thathas been dormant.
So for me that's success.
Money I made money, lost money,made stupid ass decisions and
you ain't taking it with you andit's.
How do you have a micro view attimes when you need to and then
be able to pan out and say youknow what Life is good Health,
(48:17):
happiness, family, friends.
I have a great career.
It's like you can listen.
At the end of the day, youcan't control the outcome of
most things in life, but you cancontrol the level of effort.
That's right.
And as long as I said thismorning when I dropped off at
work, I go for the most part,babe, I can tell you now in this
(48:38):
downtime that I'm putting inthe fucking work and I'm happy.
So I want to see better results, of course, right, but like if
I was like sitting in bed allday, like smoking babe all day
in bed, like no, I'm notsuccessful.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
But you hustle, so Adam Posner Bring it home, buddy
.
Yeah, I think that you aredefinitely successful.
I have thoroughly enjoyed thishike with you.
This is a good one man you haveinspired me.
The back and forth wascontagious and I really did
enjoy the momentum and thecadence we had.
I believe you are a good personinside and out.
I believe you portrayinspiration.
I believe you learned a lotabout hiking today.
(49:17):
I think I did.
I believe you definitely wentto hustle.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your inspiration and
I'm enlightened.
I'm enlightened too.
Thanks, man.
Oh yeah, next time on I Took aHike.
We follow an inspirationaltrail comprised of momentous
conversations with Nat Berman,ceo of Uncoached Corp and a
(49:38):
phenomenal motivational figure.
Till next time, I'm Darren Mass.
Thanks for listening.
Alright, so Adam Posner, that's my name Are you
okay with being recorded on apodcast?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So you're asking me for consent?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I am.
Well, there goes that liability.
This is I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and Parktime WildernessPhilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.
In this episode, we reflectalong an energetic trail with
(00:30):
Adam Posner, a successfulpodcaster and the founder of NHP
Talent Group.
Our topics include learningfrom the greats.
Culture is uniquely personal,popping back up when you fall
down and plan your work and workyour plan.
Listen on as we discover whatwas the fuel and the fire that
created a desire to start aventure on his own.
(00:53):
When I took a hike with AdamPosner.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
You know what, as a podcaster man who's done a
number of shows for a number ofyears, I really enjoy when the
tables are turned.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
That is a good intro to who you are.
You are a podcaster.
You are also an entrepreneur.
I think, by being a podcaster,that puts you in the
entrepreneurial category.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes and no.
Be creative, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, it's a business , there's cost, there's revenue,
eventually, hopefully, and youare also a business owner.
You own a recruiting businessin Web 3.
And Web 2.
And Web 2, the second web,we'll just call it, the OG web?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
What happened to Web 1?
You mean the AOL Prodigy whenyou made your money?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
No, no, I'm not that old.
I wish I made money during that.
I am 43.
I'm 44.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So look at that, you actually have one year to a flop
point.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So you're the elder statesman, so maybe I'll learn a
few things from you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I'm not a believer in age being like a indicator of
who you can learn from and can't.
If you get that bias out of theway, everything opens up.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Well, so you, I think more so than ever, you were
absolutely right.
There are kids today that canown us, school us on social
media.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I spent the first 15 years of my career social media
and, like you, think I'd learn athing or two.
No, I'm the fucking plumberwith the broken toilet.
The problem is trying to getall the shit done by yourself
Figuring out where to outsource,how do you scale, how to keep
focused on the business, how doyou grow.
It's hard, but I would neverlook back at going corporate.
(02:33):
I say that now.
The economy's not doing greatand my business as a recruiter
is contingent on the economy.
If there's no jobs, no entiring, very simple, they don't need
me at all.
So I need to find ways todiversify income.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So where do you start ?
How is an experiencedindividual like you going to
future proof the challenges thatwe are about to face,
especially with the economy,because it's not getting better?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
On this day, the 26th of 27th, 27th of October?
That's a real question, myfriend.
If I didn't have the podcast,I'd be worried Nothing nothing,
so the podcast is your screen.
It's my brand, it's your brand.
So while there's not recruitingopportunities right now, what
am I doing?
It's helping down onsponsorship, trying to leverage
(03:26):
those opportunities.
Where could it happen?
Min talks with an airline for apotential partnership to do
recruitment marketing podcastfor them to attract talent.
So basically it would be around table with employees
saying why they love workingthere, like an authentic, not
like bullshit can responses andyou don't even think about it.
(03:46):
You're like, wow, companies arelooking for authentic ways to
connect.
Podcasts are a way to do that.
So it's not an avatorial, it'snot a canned video that you're
doing.
And that's when the light bulbwent off.
I'm saying I'm good at what Ido, I'm a great interviewer.
Let's market my other skills.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
That's right.
So I think there's a goodlesson in there for anyone that
is trying to discover themselvesis learn what you're great at
and really go down that road,embellish upon it and don't be
afraid to admit your talents.
So you're good at what you do.
I would agree with that.
I've listened to your podcast,I've watched it.
I do believe you're good.
Your personality is sharp,you're spot on, you ask good
questions and, most of all, youare fearless with your
(04:25):
conversation.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think this goes back to my I'm sure you did your
research my journey real quickfor your listeners.
Born and raised in New Yorker,first 15 years in my career
working in advertising andmarketing in New York Agencies,
brands, account managementstrategy Last stop before
pivoting into recruiting,working for Gary V at
VaynerMedia.
Thought it was a holy grail.
Grass was good.
On the other side it wasn't.
(04:48):
I got Mean Girled Ooh, meanGirled.
I did not know how to handle it.
I got canned seven months in Meand Gary are boys and he's like
listen, I love you.
Other people do Not.
The right place Wasn't for meand I was like fuck, 35 years
old.
I just moved to the place thatI'm bragging about to everyone
and my mother.
This is before Gary V is Gary Vfully, and I thought it was my
(05:11):
forever job and now I'm likeshit.
Now what?
Speaker 1 (05:16):
This episode is sponsored by Business Therapy
Group.
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journey, searching for guidanceto spark your entrepreneurial
ambitions?
Look no further.
At Business Therapy Group,we're here to help you navigate
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(05:39):
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What you got?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
angry.
Now what the hell am I going todo?
Angry?
It was the lowest point.
It was the lowest fucking point.
You're not the first person I'mtelling this story to, but it
resonates in the context of whatyou're asking, because on the
way out, gary says we sat for anhour.
You need to stop focusing onyour weaknesses and double down
on your strengths.
And it sounds like you would befinding in the middle of a
fucking fortune cookie.
(06:08):
Right?
Gary just says man who cannotfocus on weaknesses should focus
on strengths.
Well, thanks, gary.
If you get the fuck out, you'refired.
No, he meant it.
And we sat there and we talkedabout what I'm good at, which is
this, and listening, reallistening, like active listening
and understanding the market.
And he's like well, if youcould do anything but this, like
what do you think you could do?
(06:28):
Like I'm like well, I'm notgoing to be an astronaut.
And he did like oh, what do youmean?
I'm going to shut up.
You did his Gary thing.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, like you're not going to be an astronaut.
Well, you won't, because yousaid you won't.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right and he was like what can you really do?
I was like, well, I have afriend who does healthcare
recruiting and another friendwho does finance recruiting.
Before I could finish mysentence he goes you'll be a
great fucking recruiter.
He's like, oh my God, he's likeyou could make more money.
You're uncapped, you're limited.
And I took that and I went tothe bar next door.
I'm not even telling you youdrank your sentence.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Well, it was so cliche.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It was first and funniest thing about that story.
It was April 1st, so it's AprilFool's Day.
Wait, you got canned on April1st.
So I called my V-day.
It's my V-day.
April 1st is my V-day.
I'm coming up on my ninth one,this year Wait, wait there had
to be a moment where you werelike, ha ha ha, funny, no, no,
no, listen, anybody who'sgetting fired.
If you don't know you'regetting fired, you lack complete
self-awareness.
Yes, obviously there's theoutliers of shitty companies,
(07:21):
shitty situations.
You know if you're not doingyour job, but you know if you're
having conversations about yourperformance.
Right, like, come on, Like,have a little self-awareness.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I want to pause you on that for a second.
This is absolutely true.
Yeah Right, salespeople isblack and white, so I have
rarely, if ever, seen asalesperson cry about being
fired.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
They knew it was coming to the room.
I didn't mind my number, sorryguys.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
You know like I get it, but if you're blindsiding
someone else on the service sideor an employee and they're
crying in shock, then you did ahorrible job as a manager.
To get them to realize theirperformance needed a little bit
of support from you.
Nobody should be surprised thatthey're getting let go.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Now looking back on it, eight years later, even a
day later, I was never surprised.
I was not set up for success.
The company was immature intheir life cycle right Three
years and they didn't have thesupport that they needed to hire
on board.
Anybody in account managementknows in the agency world,
usually when you get hiredyou're placed onto an account.
Adam, we are hiring you for thePepsi account.
They hired me so fast that theydidn't have an account, so the
(08:23):
first three weeks I'm floatingbetween accounts they don't know
where to put me.
Like you know, they'reshuffling me around.
No one's onboarding me properly.
So, I was never set up forsuccess.
So long story short, I findmyself on an account with a lady
that's two years junior to me,who's very eager and
aspirational on her journey, andI came in and I was immediately
(08:44):
viewed as a threat because I'mtrying to assimilate into the
organization, wedge my foot inin conversations, get in with
the client, figure shit outright.
They took that as a threat andthen they mean girl to shit out
of me to the point where Icouldn't take it anymore and I
probably said some things Ishouldn't have.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Okay, so pause for a second on that.
So there is another good pointOnboarding a new employee is so
critical to building culture andstarting that employee off on
the right foot, as well as therest of the organization.
Any change can lead to fear ina company.
You will see your existingemployees boost up when, when
fresh blood, new meat, entersright.
(09:20):
They're going to want toimpress, but you want to harness
all of that positive energy bydoing a proper onboarding.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can't wait to talk about this?
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Or else what happens is the exact situation you
became the little pup in anorganization and people really
want it to gun for you.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, and you know what's so interesting too in
this light bulb just went off onmy head.
Onboarding you could have thebest hiring process in the world
, but if you fuck up onboarding,that is the worst taste.
That's like going on a date andthe first date sucks.
It's just not.
It doesn't align.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
You can't build that initial chemistry.
No, it's absolutely terrible.
Like you and me, we're on afirst date here.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, we're building good rapport.
You're working me out.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I'm hopeful we can meet for Starbucks later.
So let's go back to Mean Girls,because I think we've all seen
that movie.
So you were Gretchen's.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Not particularly because I'm not a
confrontational person.
I think I was defensive andwhen I'm back into a corner I'm
going to defend myself.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Clearly type A person .
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
But then it turned into basically high school
bullshit and no one in thecompany took care of it and at
that point it was over.
Okay, Right.
And then the hallway peoplewere like look at me, you know,
it was like shitty.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It was like I was like fuck this so adults can act
like children all the time.
Now I'm called adults, Wouldyou say.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
These are mid to late twenties professionals that I
have 15 years senior on, and youwere the old guard Well, 10
years senior at that point,right, and I was the old man in
the room.
Like we just moved out to theburbs.
I was commuting every day andhere's the crazy thing about
Vayner.
In the early days it was Lordof the Flies, aaron Lord of the
Flies, and the only people thathad seats guaranteed were the
(11:00):
creatives and the projectmanagers, and then the C suite
right, the other offices,everyone else.
If you were not in by a certaintime, you'd have to sit on the
fucking floor.
So imagine, shitty March day,mixed precipitation, I'm wet,
I'm cold, I'm tired.
Just sat on the long outrailroad I walk over to Vayner
(11:22):
because at that time there's notrain where there's no train
going across midtown like that,and I'm like where'd I put my
jacket?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
What do I do?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And it's like what's the game?
The kids play Musical chairsand they pull a chair away and
there's no chairs left.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's what it was.
So that would be the toxicculture.
So you come in and you have tosit on the floor and I'm like I
just commuted.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
I'm 30.
I'm an adult male with a child,and now I'm coming to an office
and I have to sit on a floor towork.
Did you speak up?
No, no, no, everyone did thisRight.
It wasn't like me, the only one, it was like 40 people.
All right, so these are yourinner thoughts.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, these aremy inner monologues.
So there's a grass isn't alwaysgreener.
(12:01):
On the other side, vayner isthe hot shop in town.
You think like, oh my God, myforever job.
I love Gary, I idolized him andI got and I had great exposure.
Listen, those seven months, ourman, like I did bizdev with
Gary, I was on calls with him, Igot to see him pitch.
I sat in a room with StevenRoss, related properties, hudson
Yards, the owner of the fuckingMiami dolphins Like where else
(12:24):
do you get that kind of exposure?
Yep, where else do you get todo that?
This is a great trail, by theway.
This is a phenomenal trail.
It's beautiful, absolutely abeautiful trail.
So long story short, vayner.
Vayner wasn't it.
And I gotta tell you something,and I've talked about this
before, but I enjoy talkingabout it so I left Vayner April
1st 2015.
I didn't start my first day inrecruiting until July, mid-july
(12:47):
2015.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And that was an insane process.
So a little bit of a gap.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
First I had to come to Jesus moment Like all right,
am I going to stop right hereafter 15 years of investing time
, effort into a career and pivot.
Okay, that's the first one.
I got to get my head aroundthat.
And then, holy shit, I'm goingto have to start a new industry,
learn it and start at thebottom of the totem pole.
Fucking rookie day.
One shit, right, like to wrapmy head around that was.
(13:14):
I call that my self-awarenessepiphany.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
We went through some sort of internal existential as
well, I guess crisis.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It was the hardest moment of my professional life.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Depression, anxiety, OCD, all the cliches.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Well, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I talk about it openly.
I talk about having ADHD andall the fun that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
I definitely have a bit of that not diagnosed.
Oh, you definitely have it.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Definitely have that, I can tell just by the way that
we're having this conversation.
It's your high energy and weswitch.
I do the same thing Now ifyou're with someone else that
has it, it is a completeunderstanding.
But sometimes this could bewhat my old employees used to
say was my squirrel moment.
I'd be having a conversationwith you and just like the
(14:00):
squirrel from up or the dog fromup chasing a squirrel, you're
like whoop, there we go.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And you expected everyone to follow the story,
right, but it's also hard fortwo podcasters to have a
conversation.
But I'm not even trying to patmyself on the back here.
I'm trying to make a veryconscious effort of not trying
to reach over and grab the wheelwhile you're driving.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
And don't worry, because I am an active listener
and this is my job as the hostis to listen to your success
journey, and I'll interjectevery once in a while.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
What do we got here?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Black walnuts.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
What do we do with?
Speaker 1 (14:35):
these.
Where are those acorns?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Should we roast them?
No, it's a black walnut.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
That's a piece of pear shit.
No, it's like If there's a bearin this wood then I'd be
shocked.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So you're a worldly man, a renaissance man, a man
who knows a thing or two about afew things.
So are you familiar with thegentleman by the name of Navin
Jean?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I've heard that name, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Viome.
He's gone through his fairshare of controversy, but anyway
, long story long, I had him onmy show a couple of weeks ago.
He takes a ton of moonshots,certified billionaire, and he's
talking about global warming.
And he said how audacious arewe as humans?
You know, 90% of global warmingactually comes from volcanoes,
from carbon dioxide, from thetrees and everything and just
(15:15):
general decay, and we'reresponsible for only 10% of it.
How audacious do we think weare?
So we're trying to change this10%.
What if we start to think aboutchanging the 90%?
And he said listen, I'm notsaying we stick vents in all the
fucking volcanoes and reroutethe carbon monoxide and capture
the trees, but how do we think?
The Earth's space, the spaceover the Earth, around the Earth
(15:36):
?
Right, we have.
How many satellites do youthink we have up there?
Maybe close to a million.
We have a billion satellites upthere coming to the Earth.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
We have the ability right nowto pretty much map the entire
world at all times, almost realtime.
We do Right, right, so whycan't we see hot spots in the
rainforest and use dronetechnology to somehow put out
these fires that aren't going tospread to wildfires and
(15:57):
contribute to global warming,versus fighting on fossil fuels,
when you know, in greenwashing,when people don't even realize
that it takes more fossil fuelsto create the batteries and the
elements in the electric carsthan it does for gasoline, and
where do you think they'regetting the power from?
Anyway, the point that I wastrying to make that resonated
with that story said the longway is how we start to think
about problems versus solutions.
(16:18):
And like that conversation as apodcaster really got me it was
a week ago how do I thinkdifferently?
What's going on in my careerright now with the market and
putting more effort into my coreasset, which is my podcast
recruitment?
I could turn over every stone,but if no one's hiring, there's
no demand.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You did a simple supply demand curve right.
So that's where, as a businessowner or an entrepreneur, you
need to be very in tune with thecar back on track.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Here we go.
Right very in tune with pivots.
But is entrepreneur mindsetsomething you're born with 100%?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
you are.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I've always been an entrepreneur.
Yes, so have I.
I did this program in highschool called Deca.
You might have heard I wasselling ski goggles in high
school.
For this Deca program I won thestate finals.
I went out to the country.
I came in second in the country, so I always had it, that's
entrepreneurial.
Maybe it took till I was 35,instead of working for the man,
to go out on my own.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
No, so I will correct you on this.
You needed working for the manto get the best education you
will have ever gotten.
You got in front of one ofarguably the most influential
figures in our time, currentlyin the marketing world.
I can call him right now.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well, not, but yeah Right, hey, get him on the show,
let's go.
Hey, gary, you want to facetime in?
That would be a great additionto the show.
He's been on three times on myshow.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
But you got a great education.
I did the same thing.
I had my first littleentrepreneurial spark when I was
nine, created a little microbusiness.
Failed, tried again, failed,tried again in college, failed,
Then finally tried again after Ihad multiple years of working
for a large corporateestablishment, gaining valuable
(17:56):
knowledge on what it's likeInside baseball man, yes, like
you have to learn from the pros.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
So think about this for a second.
Going back to what we weretalking about onboarding If I
didn't get onboarded at AmericanExpress, sirius XM, three
different ad agencies I wouldn'tknow, as a recruiter, what's
good or bad.
Amex, world class, world classthat you offer.
Success, of course, being inmedia fail.
There's an in between.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
But I think it's not off brand for the style that
Gary has portrayed to match thaton par with his onboarding and
culture process internally.
In fact it took a while.
I would say that that'sprobably pretty spot on being
true to who his brand represents.
If you're the last person inthe office, you don't get a seat
(18:44):
.
Well, guess what?
You're the last person in theoffice.
So people have asked him thison interviews.
Was that a?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
psychological experiment.
He was like no, we were justgrowing so fast, we don't have a
space and they're waiting to gointo Hudson York.
Ok, honest, but I could alsosee that by design.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And that's where we can lead into.
You have a culture by defaultor by design.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Interesting.
Right In his case it was aculture by default Right.
Versus Netflix.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
By design or Zappos.
Unfortunately, Tony Shea is nolonger with us.
That was a culture by designand it was all about employee
first.
So culture is an interestingword.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I don't define culture as ping pong tables,
coal brew on tap, especially thefact that the majority of us
are remote hybrid Yep.
Culture is how you feel.
You feel valued, you have aclear career path in front of
you, feedback, you feel likeyou're contributing.
That's culture to me.
Do people treat you fair?
I don't think I could havelooked at any better this is
(19:43):
hard for us.
Yeah, you're on an incline.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
You are climbing about 50, 60 feet of elevation
in about 150 feet of span.
So let's pivot.
Talk to me about your successjourney so far.
What do you feel as anentrepreneur?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
At this moment.
Right now, I am consumed withfear because my financial gas
tank is running out empty.
I think a lot of people feelthat's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I think a lot of people feel that same way.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And I need to be able to park that to focus on I, on
the prize which is being top ofmind seeds planted when the
storm passes.
They're calling me first andthat's what I've been doing the
last four months, five months,luckily for me.
(20:28):
In the last few days I figuredit out in a responsible way, in
a low risk way, and we'll leaveit at that.
So I took a deep breath thismorning when I decided it was
today.
I made the move to take care offinances and get me to where I
need to go.
That is going to take thisweight off my chest.
(20:49):
Worse, in this hike that willenable me to spend the next what
do we call it?
Eight weeks of the year,focused, laser, focused plan,
holding people accountable whohave told me things that they
want to do in a professionalmanner.
(21:09):
So I entered 2024 like a motherfucking ninja.
Some of them will see me cominghopefully not, because that's
not what ninjas do.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Ninjas are known for their silence.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Right, their stealth Right.
So some people will see mecoming and actually you know
what?
I don't think that's a badthing because that means I've
planted seeds the right way andI've resonated enough to them
where, when they're ready tohire, I'm going to be the first
person that they call.
So like recruiting.
Sometimes you're a farmer,you're planting seeds, you're
(21:43):
watering them, you're waitingfor them to grow.
Sometimes you're a fishermanYou're throwing the net out
there, trying to see what's outthere, and you're hauling it in.
You're throwing a big trollernet and sometimes you fall down
and you get back up.
You just proved the play rightthere and you have to be.
You fall down.
Are you embarrassed, by the way?
No, no, you fall down.
Good, why are you notembarrassed?
(22:03):
Because it's not a big deal,exactly.
I'm going to take a little bitof a whole sound.
Thank you I did bend my wrist alittle bit, but I'll be OK.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, you did sign a liability waiver, but that's a
great point.
I teach my kids this.
I teach every one of my clientsthis.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
No, I just let them leave on a decline.
It's not like I'm walking on aflat surface like a dick.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So now you take it from a pro or someone who has
more.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
You sidestep it.
You sidestep down when it'srough terrain.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Instead of going forward.
So I want to rewind us for asecond, but there's one last
piece there.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Sometimes you've got to be a sharpshooter and laser
focused on the target you want.
So many facets.
So back to the story at hand.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I want to rewind us, because you mentioned that money
is finite, and I willwholeheartedly disagree with you
on that.
Money is infinite.
It's a resource that you canmake more of.
If you are in tune, wise enoughand have the efforts invested
in the right direction, you canget a job, absolutely you.
(23:00):
You're an intelligent humanbeing.
You are very successful.
You've had a lot of successfulventures.
That's why you're on the show.
You are a business achiever.
You are inspirational.
You could absolutely say hey,LinkedIn world, I am ready to
work for you.
You will find money.
You will make more of it.
You can always create moremoney.
Now, yes, there are lots ofpeople that don't have that
skill set, that opportunity anddifferent conversation we're
(23:23):
having, but if you are in tune,just like you could always find
more water, at least on the EastCoast you can find more money
If you dig far enough.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
And it's an interesting point too, because I
would say that if you have theskills and ability right now I
work for myself that means Icould pretty much take those
skills and work for anorganization.
You're going to eat a big sliceof humble pie.
You're going to give a percentto the house.
That's all temporary, sure.
And I agree with you Money.
When I interview all thesebillionaires and successful
people, the common thread when Iask them about money because I
(23:55):
love to Like I asked Navin Jeanabout money and he says Gary Vee
about money, and he says moneyis the fuel to my options.
Money is the fuel to my options.
Money enables me to do things,not talking about buying a house
and cars and hookers and blowwhich you could get a lot of
billions of dollars.
(24:16):
But we're not talking aboutthat.
What we're talking about isoptions to build, to grow, so
for me money checks off don'ts,they don't have to worry about.
Right, you're taking myfamily's, taking care of All
these my people are taking careof.
I don't have to worry aboutwhat's next and but for me
that's a real scare and itdrives fear, uncertainty and
(24:37):
doubt.
Yeah, my fud factor.
It's a fud factor I'm veryfamiliar.
Oh, look at this incline.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
That on that tree is what's known as a burl, the URL,
the ball sack.
Yeah, pretty much it is aknotted growth.
Speaking of ball, sack.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'd like to thank our sponsor.
Manscaped real serious Checkout.
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That's out right now.
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Speaker 1 (25:03):
Wow, that was shameless.
I.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Mean.
I see a boss, a shaved ballsack on a tree.
It seems like a logical plug.
Well, we have my little HowardStern influence which we could
get to.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Howard is arguably not arguably is definitively the
best interviewer of all times.
Sorry, larry King, you're nolonger around.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Larry never prepped.
Howard does a shitload of prep.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, and Howard has earned the right to cut anybody
off because what he has to sayis more interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
There's no better interviewer and that's how I
kind of guide my Casting style.
So back to ball sacks on trees,darren, back to you.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So we can move fast.
That because I after that, howcould I top that?
Although if you do findBurlwood and it's falling down,
it is very worthwhile.
You can generate a lot ofreturn on that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It's a rare wood.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Extremely, you don't want to chop it down, but it is
down to ready tens of thousandsof dollars.
Hmm, so they're Burlwoodhunters out there.
There was a show calledBurlwood.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Hunter.
We killed in the ratings.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
It actually did I think it was on for several
seasons.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So you know it's funny.
You go back to success and mywife keeps reminding this.
She's like you have done shit.
I'm an all of you.
I'm an all of what you've built.
She's like I can't do what youdid.
You built a brand, you built apodcast.
You've done 300.
You haven't missed it in a week.
I'm not trying to flex her inyour show, but like she reminds
me my successes because I'mpretty humble, I don't like to
like.
You built the business armgathering, oozing humility,
(26:32):
generated, generated like, ifyou put it together, decent
amount of money in the last fewyears by yourself.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You've tenacity is my other tattoo right here.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
But you're your wife, whereas we have to call each
other significant others thesedays or partner partner.
I think it's the that's herbeing impressed by you,
motivating you, boosted you, andthen no greater feeling in the
world than when you find theright partner to do such.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And I'm equally impressed with her.
And when I got fired here'swhat happened that day, because
it's pretty critical I leftVayner was around, we'll call it
early mid-morning 11 ish and Icalled her.
She didn't believe me.
She thought I was joking.
Well, april Fool's right,exactly and.
She's like come up to my officeand she worked like three or
(27:16):
four blocks away on Madison,like really close.
It was really crazy.
Actually we commute togetherand everything and I was like
wait a minute, make a stop first.
She's like wire.
And obviously in New York Citythere's a bar open at 11, 58, 10
, 58 in the morning.
Yep and I went in black horse.
Um, it might have been one ofthose.
Yeah, like the shamrock on thefront Irish New York cliche bar
and there was a cliche, threeold men at the bar drinking.
(27:38):
Which is bartender on, you know, like weird news channel, and I
did what I did.
It was a rainy, cold April dayand I sat at the bar before noon
and I had myself a Scotcher too, and it was great.
And then I went up to heroffice, we shut the door and I
cried like a baby and she saidget it all out, get it all out,
(27:59):
because you're gonna pickyourself back up after this and
we're gonna figure this shit outtogether.
And that's when I knew like Iwas good and those three months
was my journey into recruiting.
I told sorry a million times.
Due diligence, met with a bunchof different recruiting
agencies, found the one thatWanted me for what I bring to
the table and who.
I am not a smile and dial salesshop, but one, knowing that I'm
(28:22):
bringing a roll of decks ofcontext and industry knowledge.
I'm going into recruiting formarketing as a someone who
worked in industry for 15 yearslike that's an insane
Competitive advantage.
But what I didn't know?
I didn't know how to be arecruiter.
It's kind of like real estateright.
Like everyone thinks, justbecause you bought a house, you
sold the house Maybe there'ssome renovations that you could
be a real estate agent what?
(28:43):
else I'm gonna sell but what Ididn't know, I really did not
know the art and science of it.
There's a nuance.
There's a nuance inrelationships, there's a nuance
to outreach.
So anyway, long story short,that first day fucking
recruiting, and there's a pieceof the story I talked about too.
I was supposed to start theMonday after July 4th.
On my daughter's birthday, june18th her third birthday my
(29:07):
parents are in town.
My mom accidentally spilled ascalding hot pot of water on my
daughter in her chair and sheSit in third degree burns all
over her.
Oh, we're seeing my life, yeah,yeah, absolutely worst in my
life.
And I met mom like I have mydaughter who's Like the chicken
skin, coming off like it wantsme like it wants you.
(29:27):
I PTSD from that moment I sawit she was three at the time,
third birthday.
On on her third birthday and mymom who's just mortified, it
took her obviously my daughter's11, it took her eight, took her
many years to still have toforgive herself.
No, they used them pigskinHyperdermal transfusion.
Yeah, wow, and it worked great.
(29:47):
So I tell my daughter she's,she's not kosher for Passover.
So you're really it's a reallyinteresting point, so so so I
was supposed to start and Iremember calling Tom, my, my
boss, who Hired me and believedin me, and I was like Tom, I
can't start tomorrow.
My daughter's, we're in the thefire unit at Nassau County
Hospital here and that was thelowest point and like, just
(30:10):
remember that date.
Like you talk about depression,like in the parking lot Going
home after three days in thehospital just to get a change of
clothes and shower and take ashift break in In a middle of
the night for in the morningRainy parking line, just in,
what the fuck like whatdefinition of hell.
And that was the moment I'mlike it's a real moment.
I'm like what, what, what did I?
What did I do?
(30:31):
Is this like a moment of likeall the bad shit that I've ever
done in my life?
Like I was like, well, I reallyhaven't done that.
I didn't get any killed anybody.
So we so we know yet Go back tothe murder love tray and we'll
flip a coin, we'll play thatgame, but so and that was a
moment I was like sum it up,your daughter is fine.
She's perfectly fine.
Perfect, she's the most amazing.
Perfect.
She doesn't remember it, dude.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Good.
Well, that's the beauty of time, is we tend to forget very
traumatic things.
Hmm, it's probably healthy tokeep reminding her that that
happened, otherwise it mightbecome one of those you know
Psychoanalysts.
Like this happened and oh mygod, I'm trying to see she's.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
She's aware of it.
Yeah, she's aware of it.
She has no scars whatsoever,and that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Let me ask you this first Is your mom Better and
okay?
Does she trust herself?
Where is that still a harbor?
Is she still harboring?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
It took a couple of years and now I think she's okay
.
She's okay with my son, but shewas.
She was messed up for a while.
She's going to yourself tonightand I remember my wife didn't
blame her, but in the same timeit was her fault.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
So I also had.
That wasn't on purpose, no, butthat was but that was a hard.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That was yeah, I'm good that was a hard Bridge to
cross between and my mom and mywife have an incredible
relationship and my wife notholding any ill feelings towards
my mom, like like someone hurtyour daughter Obviously it's an
act, obviously so and not to saythat my wife had hard feelings,
(31:55):
but like there was, there was alot of work that had to be done
human emotions are what theyare.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
The thoughts in your head and your wife's head
Instantly went to blame.
Anger, discussed, fear.
All of the human emotions thenprobably went through the change
management or the change.
The emotional change curvesRight.
Don't dial depression, all ofthat.
They're just normal humanemotions.
Of course you blame your mom.
How could you not?
It was her fault.
But did she do it on purpose?
(32:23):
No, and now you've healed rightproblem, though is she probably
still harbors a little bit ofthat, because as an adult, we
don't forget.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
We're elephants.
Yeah, but I've also, if we'relucky, we're all right.
And I've also I've not wantedto, I've not desired or thought
about bringing it back up to mymom and opening up old wounds,
because I don't know if she'skilled or not, so I don't know
the right path for it or if it'seven necessary.
But I'm really close with mymom, we have lots of talks and I
just that's a conversation.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
It might be worth having the conversation just
saying mom check in?
Yeah, I would.
I.
I personally would.
Now, I'm not a psychologist,but I know how people interact
and you just putting your handon your mother's shoulder and
saying mom, you know, nobodyharbors any negative feelings.
Just in case we have forgivenyou there, it wasn't your fault.
I just want to make sure thatwe've had this conversation.
(33:13):
We are clear.
You should not feel any moreremorse.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I mean this takes us into a very interesting thing
which I've been thinking aboutour, you still both your parents
, I do.
Yeah, luckily my father is 80,my mother is 77, right, so not
spring chickens, right, but theyact like it, right.
But that's amazing becausethey're in Florida.
Look at these beavers have done.
Look at the ingenuity andStrength of such magnificent
animals that have created thismassive structure.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We so this is a wooden teepee.
Would you like to take a hikeinto a wooden teepee?
I'm not gonna say no to that,yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I think this is a first, or are we looking at some
Blair witch project style,right?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
This is where we decide the fate of the murder
love tree.
Whoo, that's a look back oncamera All right let's let's do
this.
Yeah, that'll be, that'll be anature hike.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Hey, listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athightokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor or to simply drop
us a line.
Alright, back on the trail ofsuccess.
So let's give a moment ofsharing, sharing what we've
known, sharing some inspiration.
What are some tips and tricks,some really inspiring moments
(34:24):
that you can share for anyonethat is budding or sitting at
that really bad job, that deskthey hate, with an idea, they
want to start something, butthey just don't have the
question.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
So it sounds so platitudinal, but I really do
believe in a couple of things Ibelieve in.
Make should happen.
That's my mantra.
Make should happen, get shitdone, let's fucking do it.
You have an idea, do it, try it.
What's the worst that couldhappen?
It doesn't work out like youstill have your job that you
hate, you know what.
But if you die tomorrow and youcan try, that's on you, man,
you're gonna have to go to thegrave with that.
But what I really believe froma tactical standpoint, every
(34:58):
single day, my mantra and thiscame to me from Tom Hall, who
gave me my first chance inrecruiting every morning when I
start my work day plan your workand work your plan.
Plan your work and work yourplan.
Plan your work and work yourplan.
I'm going in focused and I'mold school man.
I love writing on sticky padsbecause I love the feeling, when
(35:20):
I'm done, of throwing it away,the actual act of throwing it in
the garbage and being done.
I'm gonna throw it off Versusbeing like having my notes
section on my iPhone, being like3000 things that I don't know
where I left off.
But also that notepad.
Some days there's 10 things onthere and I get all 10 things
done, but some days there's 10things on there and I only get
three done and I just feelequally productive because those
three things were the mostimportant movers in my business.
(35:42):
But I'm able to visualize those.
But getting back to the core ofit, there's no excuse in this
day and age, for the most part,that you should stuck in a job.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
There's so many options in this world.
You're literally wasting yourlife away unless you don't like
your job.
You're using it to test yourcourage, your strength, pushing
past fears, reaching out tomentors.
Use it as on the job training,make it purposeful.
By the way, just to give you afactoid, the art of handwriting
a note sears that brain handconnection and it helps you
remember.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
The other cool part about well, not cool part is
like there's also people in jobsthat they're great paying jobs.
They may not love them andthey're able to do their
passions on the weekends at homeand they love it too.
The real problem are peoplethat are stuck in debt or jobs.
Now there are people bysocioeconomic place in the world
have to do what they have to do, but we're talking about people
(36:34):
that have options.
We're talking about people thatcould actually do something
different.
There's no excuse and with thedemocratization and plethora of
free information out there onthe interwebs, you could learn
anything.
You can learn any skill, likecollege.
I still question you you canlearn about Burlwood?
I'm not, but you can.
In theory you can, but thatgoes back to, like you know, the
(36:57):
new thing I'm doing now tomonetize my experience is not
career coaching.
I call it career therapy,darren, and the difference is
that there's no like I'm notputting you into a course or a
program, but what I am doing isanalyzing what's working, what's
not working, holding youaccountable and coming up with
an action plan and giving youthe tactics and tools that you
(37:19):
need to be successful in yourjob search or your career
transition your career.
Pivot.
Based on my experience and theearly clients who are loving it,
love it.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Because that's what people need is career therapy.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And they vent to me and I hold them accountable, I
text them.
I'm like dude, did you do thisyet?
No, why not?
Speaker 1 (37:40):
So you are nailing the underlying theme why I came
up with business therapy?
Because business owners fail torealize their own
accountability.
They make so excuses.
Human beings are capable ofrationale, which is what sets us
apart from the animal kingdom.
Right?
Think about it If you have asales individual and they have a
quota and they miss that quotafor a few consecutive months,
(38:03):
wouldn't you write them up orput them on a performance
improvement plan or try to coach, train, anything to inspire,
encourage or fix Right.
But the business owner, if theyare the partner in charge of
sales and they miss their number, sometimes they just make an
excuse or ignore it.
And that's where the help of aboard, if you're a big company,
a board of advisors if you're asmall company or a personal
(38:27):
board.
A personal board can come intoplay to hold the business owner
accountable for their ownsuccess.
Same thing with what you'redoing.
It sounds like you're doingwith people.
I'm a big believer that youshould have a personal board of
advisors.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I'm smiling because I have my own board of advisors.
I call it my Mount Rushmore.
I have mentors and I engagethem in a couple different ways.
I have mentors that are close,tactical, where I could call on
them anytime, and then there'smentors from afar.
Gary Vee is a mentor from afar.
I watch, I learn, I observe,I'm also able if I really need
(39:04):
to make contact, but that's likethe emergency ripcord.
But there's other folks in mynetwork Joe Mullings, Scott
McGregor that are worldlyexperienced, successful,
long-tenured recruiters thathave been through down cycles
and have built businesses, andthey built media brands around
(39:25):
their recruiting business.
So I am a more cruder.
I am a hybrid.
I don't define myself as arecruiter.
That's what I do.
Can we pause for a second andkeep recording because I want to
talk about something.
Do you remember the first phonecall we had when you told me
the premise of the show?
Yes, I do.
Okay, I think that was within ayear, within a calendar year,
maybe less.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
I was less about eight months ago.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Right, so I started this in May.
And how many episodes have yourecorded?
I've recorded 36, three seasons.
So, first and foremost, kudosto you for following through on
a plan and going through it.
This is a great concept.
I remember telling you at first.
I'm like I like the concept.
There's obviously parameters.
You have to get all these showsin on the East Coast in a
certain amount of time.
But you did it and now that I'mactually doing it with you, I'm
(40:10):
smiling for you, man, becauseit's fucking cool and that's
like the same thing with, like,when I had this idea for the
podcast, it just came to me.
I'm like podcasts were kind ofokay in 2018, 19,.
They were growing and there wasa bunch of recruiting podcasts
out there and I listened to themand I'm like these are so
fucking dry.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
This is so clinical.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
It's like boring.
I don't want to listen to it.
And I was talking to my friends.
I'm like you know what?
I'm just going to record a Zoomcall because now we have the
ability to download the audioand video and my other buddy's a
sound guy and let's just throwit into a podcast.
And I recorded the first one ona whim no prep, zero prep.
And the first podcast was bornFebruary 2019.
(40:50):
And I have not stopped and Iurge you, I tell every podcast
to this set attainable goals.
My first goal was 50.
That's a year's worth of shows.
Most podcasts I don't know thestats called PodFade fail after
seven episodes because peopledon't realize how much work it
takes.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
And then the majority of those that made it don't
last beyond 20.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Right.
Yeah, there's phases of falloff because people also think,
unless you're Kim Kardashian ora famous celebrity who has
cashier, you're not going to geta lot of downloads.
It took me a year almost tobreak 200 downloads an episode.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So this is a concept of perseverance and, yes, this
is extremely daunting.
You have to have a true passion, just like you would believe in
any of your startup venturesLove podcasts.
If you don't have a passion forone the media or medium that
you're marketing then don't doit.
And if you don't have a passionto completely ignore many of
the risk factors of a normalbusiness, right, the product is
(41:49):
the podcast.
The podcast is a marketing tool.
The product is really you, andthat is different than a selling
topsy-tales.
You don't have a physical,tangible asset that you're
selling or service, so you haveto ignore some of those key data
points and push past it.
And, as you know, podcasting isexpensive.
It is an investment.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I've also figured out how to minimize it.
But I mean, look at, you have afull crew here on top of it.
Now, yes, you have worked hardand you have the ability to
start out of the gate with greatequipment.
Kudos to you to be able to dothat.
But you don't have to have thatto be a podcast.
No, I recorded my first show ona shitty $50.
Getty Mike on a Zoom.
You know, a MacBook camera,right, but you don't.
(42:31):
The equipment does not make thedifference in a successful
podcast, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athiketokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor or to simply drop
us a line.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
So, getting back to LinkedIn a little bit, it's
interesting.
Like every other platform, it'san attention economy and people
are monetizing these branddeals with influencers and it's
people like Game Assistantpeople that do it right, and
it's a shame with companies likeHootsuite and HubSpot that are
aligning with people that arehacking in an unethical way, and
(43:15):
the truth is they don't give ashit.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Why are you?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
the referee Right, so exactly.
So I came to Jesus moment aboutless than a year ago when I was
kind of calling out all thebullshit on LinkedIn of all
these cheaters and hackers, andpart of it was because what does
that mean?
Speaker 1 (43:28):
by cheaters and hackers?
Because I'm unaware.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It's very simple.
There are people that useeither inorganic growth methods
to game the system.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Like buying fans or something Buying fans and likes
For real.
I didn't even know that was athing for LinkedIn, which is an
age old social media hack.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Right, but here's the deal LinkedIn knows who they
are.
It violates terms of services,but LinkedIn chooses to term a
blind eye.
And I truly think becauseLinkedIn only cares about ad
sales and they want thatengagement metric for a KPI for
how much they can charge fortheir ads.
Okay, so quick pivot.
So there's my.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Is there anything wrong with LinkedIn being a
company and wanting revenue?
They're not in the altruismbusiness.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
No, it's owned by Microsoft.
There it is.
Yeah, I had no idea they gotbought for like a billion
dollars.
You can fact check me on that.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
So I had absolutely no idea that LinkedIn was
acquired.
Okay, well, look at that Readin them, they're all right.
That's interesting, but so thenthat's probably the exact
moment that everything changed.
And you're right, they do pushcertain people more than others.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Right, they do because I wish they would push
my content more.
I wish they would push mycontent more, of course.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
What I have been told .
My editor actually told me this.
He's an extremely creativeindividual, great mind, at such
an early age.
He brought it out to me.
He wasn't trying to burst mybubble, but he said, darren,
your message is positive.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Positivity doesn't sell People want fear and anger
and greed.
Gary Vee is the only one thatsays that he's not positive.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Gary Vee's message is straight to the face.
You know your marketing sucksthis method is better the real,
the honest.
But his original.
Thing.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Well, his original shit was all hustle culture.
You're not making it work andyou know what?
The first time I saw Gary Vee.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
I was at a Vistage conference with like 500
professional CEOs in the roomreal CEOs.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Real CEOs, not LinkedIn CEOs.
Yeah, no, real CEOs, notLinkedIn CEOs.
Actual CEOs of enterprise levelorganizations.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And he basically dropped.
I counted him because I kepttally, I was keeping the text 49
F-bombs.
And then he asked forvolunteers to ask questions.
The first volunteer gets up hemust have been a CEO in his 60s,
said something, and Gary goesyou know what?
What do you do for marketing?
He goes well, we have anewsletter.
He goes.
You know what?
Your newsletter is?
(45:42):
Bullshit.
Yeah Right, he was insultingthe crowd that worked for him.
For him, he was the firstperson that these people ever
heard.
That was literally a mistressto them a dominatrix.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
It's like, ooh, so they became a dominatrix, tell
me more.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
They became, choked me out, but I just Call me daddy
, it was the first time and Iactually gravitated to that
because I thought it wasbrilliant, of course, he was the
opposite of Tony Robbins.
Yes, he was the antithesis.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
He was the serum that we all needed.
He was the magnet that thehustle bros had for validation,
and it worked.
And you know what?
I am not against hustle.
No, are you kidding me?
In this day and age, if I don'thustle, I don't make money.
If I don't make money, my kidsdon't get fed, especially in
this day and age and you aredone like that.
If you can't go out and huntfor your fucking meal and your
(46:28):
prey to feed and get the hellout of this business and go back
to a nine to five day.
Nothing against, but don't callyourself an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
That's exactly right.
Now, let me tailor it to this,because we are coming close to
the end here.
Do you believe that you are asuccessful person?
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Why do you believe you're successful?
What is your definition?
Speaker 2 (46:49):
I've been thinking about this one a lot and I think
my definition kind of varies alittle bit, but it ultimately
comes down to happiness.
That's my kind of metric Likeam I happy?
Listen, claude Silver, whoworks for GaryVee, who is one of
my idols.
Claude says we've survived 100%of our bad days and that one
hit me like a ton of bricks.
So of course we have shittydays.
Two days ago was a real shittyday for me when a big deal fell
(47:11):
through.
But guess what, I went home.
I have a loving wife, lovingkid, universal theme here, and I
was like you know what?
I'm good, I sit in my office,this studio that here's another
fun one.
I look back on episode one ofthe podcast early in my days of
being a solopreneur in a we worktype place on a zoom call.
And then I fast forward toyesterday when I'm recording in
(47:33):
my own studio that I built, withlighting and cameras and a
roadcaster too and $1,000 worthof equipment.
I'm like, yeah, it's not thevalue of the equipment, it's the
fact that I kept doing it tothe point where this is
necessary for the quality ofshow consistency and, like the
reps, you put in the reps andI've landed on stages in the
(47:55):
last two years that I've onlydreamed about and has ignited
the fire in certain areas thathas been dormant.
So for me that's success.
Money I made money, lost money,made stupid ass decisions and
you ain't taking it with you andit's.
How do you have a micro view attimes when you need to and then
be able to pan out and say youknow what Life is good Health,
(48:17):
happiness, family, friends.
I have a great career.
It's like you can listen.
At the end of the day, youcan't control the outcome of
most things in life, but you cancontrol the level of effort.
That's right.
And as long as I said thismorning when I dropped off at
work, I go for the most part,babe, I can tell you now in this
(48:38):
downtime that I'm putting inthe fucking work and I'm happy.
So I want to see better results, of course, right, but like if
I was like sitting in bed allday, like smoking babe all day
in bed, like no, I'm notsuccessful.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
But you hustle, so Adam Posner Bring it home, buddy
.
Yeah, I think that you aredefinitely successful.
I have thoroughly enjoyed thishike with you.
This is a good one man you haveinspired me.
The back and forth wascontagious and I really did
enjoy the momentum and thecadence we had.
I believe you are a good personinside and out.
I believe you portrayinspiration.
I believe you learned a lotabout hiking today.
(49:17):
I think I did.
I believe you definitely wentto hustle.
So thank you so much for yourtime and your inspiration and
I'm enlightened.
I'm enlightened too.
Thanks, man.
Oh yeah, next time on I Took aHike.
We follow an inspirationaltrail comprised of momentous
conversations with Nat Berman,ceo of Uncoached Corp and a
(49:38):
phenomenal motivational figure.
Till next time, I'm Darren Mass.
Thanks for listening.
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