Ben Thompson - Building a Company From a YouTube Audience

Scaling the rugged terrain of Breakneck Ridge, I found myself in the inspiring company of Ben Thompson, CEO of Treble Health and viral YouTube personality. Our ascent into both the physical and metaphorical high points of life's journey revealed Ben's transformation from audiology doctor to a trailblazing figure in the telehealth landscape. Amidst our climb, Ben shared tales of his family's audiological roots, his own foray into the world of digital entrepreneurship, and the profound impact of hearing health on our overall quality of life.

As we navigated the natural obstacles before us, Ben and I unpacked the mental fortitude required for entrepreneurship. The conversation traversed the terrain of self-doubt and the fear of failure, emphasizing how content creation acts as a cornerstone for business growth and a surprisingly effective means of therapy in the great outdoors. We also tackled the strategic elements of building a team that can amplify your vision, with Ben offering his seasoned insights on distinguishing the roles of CEO, founder, and business owner, and how each carries its weight in steering a company's success.

Our journey culminated in an exploration of success and purpose through the lens of lifestyle and personal aspirations. Ben illuminated the reality of living with mild tinnitus, underscoring the broader message of maintaining one's health and well-being. As we descended from the heights, he extended a warm invitation to the listeners to join in the discourse—whether it be on managing tinnitus or mastering YouTube marketing—fostering a sense of community that lasts well beyond the final steps of our hike. Join us for this episode to gain a fresh perspective on the life of an entrepreneur, the strategic play of business growth, and the invigorating power of life's adventures.

Support the show

Contribute to the granola bar fund :)

Follow The Journey on Instagram
Tiktok?

Submit Feedback
Apply to be a guest
Become a Sponsor

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right.
So, Ben Thompson, are you okaywith being recorded on a podcast
?

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I am.
I am here.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
There goes that liability.
This is.
I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and Parktime WildernessPhilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.
In this episode, we crush anepic mountain ascent on

(00:26):
Breakneck Ridge with the CEO ofTreble Health and YouTube
sensation, ben Thompson.
Our topics include embracingthe present moment, overcoming
challenges, the experience oftinnitus, pursuing passions,
effective marketing strategiesand crafting genuine, achievable
goals, and so much more.

(00:48):
This episode is brimming withpurpose and definitely worth
exploring when I took a hikewith Ben Thompson.
This episode is sponsored byDeFi Supplements.
Are you feeling stuck in a rut?
Do you need more energy for thetrail, stuck behind the screen

(01:10):
all day and lacking focus?
Well, you need to recalibrate,my friend, and get your energy
back for the summit.
Calibrate is a premium brainhealth supplement doctor
formulated to help with energy,focus, mood and longevity.
Visit defiyourmindcom and usecode HIK for 20% off and you

(01:31):
will defy your expectations.
And I will say this hike.
When I asked you if you want totake an easy stroll, an
adventurous walk, a professionalwalking, or do you want to go
on an extreme.
You were all about the extreme.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
I chose the adventure .
When there's an option in life,choose the more adventurous
path.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, well, it looks like we are doing that on
breakneck ridge.
We're going straight up.
Your heart rate is going to beracing, we will be sweating and
this will be fun.
I'm here Very cool, so who areyou?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
My name is Ben Hi Ben and, in addition to being a
follower of the I Took a Hikepodcast, I am an entrepreneur.
I am an outdoor enthusiast andI run a telehealth company that
spawned from my professionaldedication and work as a doctor

(02:36):
of audiology and audiologist.
So my story, generally speaking, is one who was a health
specialist who decided to trysomething different in a desire
and an aspiration for freedomand having my own schedule and
being able to essentially run myown business.
So I started with a YouTubechannel making video content and

(03:01):
eventually was able to work asan entrepreneur and be a solo
entrepreneur having my ownbusiness, and then over the last
two years, that has reallyevolved into creating a
telehealth brand and servingindividuals who have tinnitus
ringing in the ears and here andtoday I live in Brooklyn and I

(03:24):
run this telehealth company withmy brother and we are really
proud of the impact we're making.
So that's a little bit about me.
You are a doctor, I am a doctor, a clinical specialist for
hearing loss and tinnitus,called audiologist.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
So this is a subject that is really near and dear to
me.
Tell me more, because I havelight tinnitus, not bad.
I was a drummer, okay, and asyou can imagine, some days I
chose not to wear earplugs Mostdon't.
And I love heavy metal, andevery once in a while I do get
that ringing, so I'd like tohear more about it from an

(04:01):
expert.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Absolutely.
Yeah, a mild ringing in theears.
Maybe it can fluctuate with abad night's sleep or stress or
loud noise exposure Very common,millions of people experience
it and, generally speaking, it'snot something to be worried
about.
It's something that we canmanage and not be so affected by
.
So for folks wondering how canthey protect their hearing, I

(04:26):
think a big part of it is, yeah,using earplugs when you're
around really loud noises.
But overall, with good habits,good health, mental health,
tinnitus can be managed quitewell, and another line of work
that we do is with hearing loss.
I think a lot of folks havesomeone in their family who may
be asking for repetitions orneeding some help with hearing
and hearing loss.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Okay, that's a big part.
Yeah, what is the maximum soundthat we can perceive?

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, I think for those listening, just knowing
that chainsaws, constructionequipment, things like that can
cause hearing damage.
So, for example, my dad waspretty naive to this and used a
chainsaw without earmuffs anddamaged some of his hearing and
has partial hearing loss from it.
And yeah, I think that's themessage that perhaps the one

(05:15):
message that the listeners couldbenefit from in terms of
protecting their hearing healthIs your dad your client?
Nope, he's not.
He might be one of thosestubborn 65, 70 year old men who
says I know I have some hearingloss, but I don't really feel
like I need to get help withhearing aids or anything like
that.
I can hear just fine.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
So what is it like around the Thanksgiving table?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's my Thanksgiving table Generally fine.
Yeah, generally fine, I mean weyou know we have.
So we have two audiologists andone speech therapist in our
family, so communication prettyclear around the table.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
All right, so talk to me about the how three of your
father's children got intospeech and audiology.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, so my mom is a speech therapist and it's
actually my brother and I whoare audiologists and those two
fields are interrelated, so shehad shared with us at some point
as we were getting older.
We're looking at a beautifulview of the Hudson River,
correct?
Yes, yeah, it's amazing HudsonRiver Valley.
Pretty expensive views here.
Beautiful winter day as well.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
I love this.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
My brother and I being audiologists and going to
school, developing in ourcareers, everyone would always
ask us are you guys going toopen a practice together?
And I was living in SanFrancisco at the time, he was
living in New York City and wewould always say we don't really
see that being possible becausewe live on different coasts,

(06:40):
but we're not opposed to theidea.
And then, around 2020, right inthe beginning of the decade, I
had realized I wasn't findingfulfillment in my day job, which
was working at a hospital, andone of the beautiful things
about working as a healthprofessional is that the job is

(07:02):
intrinsically service relatedand in my own experience I've
learned that serving others isone of the highest value things
you can do, and especiallyserving a vulnerable population.
Right, so, just helping peopleand I think a lot of doctors and
many entrepreneurs enter theirpath because they want to help

(07:23):
people that's right.
Now.
Just before COVID, I hadfinally gotten myself to the
mental state of saying myclinical job that I was working
at the hospital.
It wasn't fulfilling, it wasn'tcreative enough, it wasn't
exciting, just felt like I hadsort of reached the status quo

(07:44):
and things were cruising and Ithought is this the rest of my
life?

Speaker 1 (07:48):
So you hit that moment that so many of us,
including myself, reach whereyou're like, depressed about the
fact you went to school for somany years, and you're like so
this is what it's about.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I reached that point and following guidance
from people who cared about meand loved me and had their best
intention, and reaching thisplace of this can't be what I'm
here to do, and there's someconfusion that was coming up,
and one of my favorite musicianshas a line that I really
resonate with.
He says confusion clouds theheart, but it also points the

(08:19):
way.
So the process of beingconfused and grappling with this
, not knowing and where should Igo, what should I do I learned
that that's just part of theprocess.
We have to embrace it becauseit actually points us towards
where we are called to be, andlistening and being attuned and
essentially following that path,which, which is more aligned.
So in my case, that meantstarting a YouTube channel to

(08:41):
eventually offer telehealthservices to patients
individually, as opposed toworking in a hospital in the
more status quo doctor healthprofessional role.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Hey, listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athightokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobea sponsor or to simply drop us
a line.
So I want to talk to you aboutso many topics, one of them,
obviously, starting yourbusiness and running a business
and what that's like.
Yeah, to get deeper your hikesaround the world because you

(09:17):
were obviously very into thisone, definitely.
And you were certainly notafraid.
Not afraid, you might even be alittle bit of a sadist on this
one.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Well, this is a pretty straight up rock scramble
, but I love it.
And I would love to talk aboutall those things, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, and I also want to talk about, you know,
hearing and what we can do tohelp it.
Fix it for sure, prevent theelderly loss of it.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, I think yeah for the listeners.
Definitely, speaking about mycircumstance, my path of
becoming an entrepreneur was notplanned out from the beginning.
I want to share a story thatwas really important in my
journey, which was a few monthsinto 2020.

(10:04):
I'd prepared myself mentallyover the last, over the previous
year, that I was going to takethe risk of putting myself out
there on the internet in aneffort to essentially create an
audience that would lead tobeing able to offer services to
people via telehealth.
So it's like zoom typecounseling type services, health

(10:25):
coaching, that kind of thing.
And I remember being veryscared and having hesitation to
putting myself out there, thefear of judgment of the
professional community, of youknow, at the time I was a few
years out of school, so I hadthese automatic negative
thoughts of you're not skilledenough to be an expert in this

(10:47):
field.
Why would someone pay you towork with them for their
tinnitus?
You're in your mid 20s, you'rein your late 20s, like there are
people who are 50, who've beendoing this for 30 years they
could go to.
Why would they go to you?
Yeah, who are you to be the?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
authority.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah.
So some sense of imposterthinking or just self doubt, and
then also the sense ofpotential judgment from others,
and our human psychology isprogrammed to want to belong to
the tribe, and anything that canmake us feel at risk of being
excluded is a threat and willoften put us in a state of fear,

(11:26):
freeze or perhaps not pursuingthe thing that we wanted.
Yeah, yeah, there was about ayear of contemplation and in the
sales and marketing world, weknow that the stages are
awareness, consideration andaction.
So I was aware that I hadoptions of how to start my own

(11:47):
business.
For a few years, I was in SanFrancisco.
I was meeting people who werein the technology scene.
I had made a lot of greatfriends who traveled the world,
who started companies, and I wasvery inspired by the people who
I'd met just different ways ofliving, different ways of life.
And then, in my own field, Isaw some examples of people who

(12:09):
had a successful online courseor who offered this telehealth
service.
Perhaps they were in adifferent country and they had a
YouTube channel, and there wereother YouTubers in the health
field and I just saw okay,there's something potentially
here.
I don't know how it's gonnawork out for me, but I'm
interested in this.
And then I was reallyconsidering, and in that

(12:30):
contemplation stage of I'm readyto do this, how am I gonna do
it, what should I do, whatshould be my approach, and then
finally I said, well, I need tobuy some camera equipment.
I chose YouTube because therewere other people in my
profession one man in Englandand one woman in Australia who

(12:53):
had grown a YouTube audience andI thought, well, I know just as
much as them, if not more,because I had completed a
residency at a major hospital inSan Francisco, had very
specific training in this niche.
So I've been very niche down,very focused on this specific
health condition and for someonelistening who says, oh, I'm not
a health professional, I thinkthat we're basically saying that

(13:15):
any niche you focus on that youhave specific skills in, if you
can create awareness of yourservices, then people will
potentially reach out or buyfrom you.
It's marketing, so essentiallygot this camera equipment and I
took a video marketing course.
And about two weeks into thiscourse, there was a specific

(13:37):
moment.
I was living in Berkeley,california, in a neighborhood
you know.
This was like early spring time, first month of COVID, march
2020.
And I didn't have a car at thetime.
I was living in a very shittyapartment, for lack of a better
word, and my roommates at thetime were they were like vegans

(14:00):
and like animal rightsspecialists and they had four
hens that were literally partlyin our house and partly next
door to my window, and I just,in those circumstances, didn't
have a car, was like sort oflike stranded in this very
strict COVID area, and I justobsessed over YouTube and

(14:20):
learning video marketing for anumber of months.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Well, it's the right platform.
Right Go where the largestsearch engine in the world will
tag you right.
It's the smartest platform.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah and yeah, youtube and Google search, both
being search engine platforms.
And to get us back to thatspecific moment, I took this
video course and in the coursethey explained that you can make
videos, you can post themonline, you can be consistent
and, if you have enough skilland if the right people watch

(14:52):
them, you can also create anemail list, create and market
your services and actually makemoney and potentially quit your
normal job and be your own boss.
And I got on my bike and I wentaround the neighborhood and I
was biking.
There's this long bike friendlyroad in Berkeley with these big

(15:14):
trees sort of canopying overthe top of the road, beautiful
flowers around, and I was bikingdown this road and I felt tears
well up in my eyes because forthe first time in the last three
years, I had hope that I wasn'tjust stuck working in this

(15:34):
white walled hospital with aschedule and not much creativity
and not much upward mobility inthis work setting as a clinical
doctor, but instead there waspotentially this other path,
this more adventurous path thatcould potentially lead to
freedom in my life, and I toldmyself if this takes five years,

(15:54):
that's fine, I'm gonna committo this.
I don't know how long this isgonna take, but I'm committed to
make this work and that was a,and I haven't looked back since.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
I love it.
So we're gonna talk about thefeeling of being an entrepreneur
, getting yourself to take theleap, because that's the hardest
one.
It goes against everything thatyou were taught when you were
raised as a kid.
You were told probably, yeah,be a doctor, good income, good
salary, good compensation, safe.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Low stress job.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I don't know if some doctors would agree with that
one, but you bucked the trendand you decided to be an
entrepreneur, and that takescourage, and that's the basis of
everything we do here.
Courage Speaking of which wehave another.
What about 200 feet, 300 feetof uphill after you?
Let's get started.
I'll let you lead the way thistime.
All right, how old are you?

(16:42):
I'm 30 years old.
30 years old, all right?

Speaker 2 (16:44):
so you are young, I'm young, yep.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
And you are definitely very well educated
and you definitely have thatcourage, which I love.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
There's a lot of negative automatic thoughts,
negative self-talk, limitingbeliefs that, in my opinion,
make it really hard to putoneself out there.
Of course, and creating contentis probably one of the most
recently talked about ways tomake an impact.
Start a business Because it'sfree.

(17:15):
You don't have to pay toexperiment.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
You don't, and you're gonna make mistakes along the
way.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, and that's okay .
Yeah, so for those who havetime maybe not money, but for
those who have time getting intoentrepreneurship early, making
a lot of mistakes is a very goodthing, and it's uncomfortable
the entire way through.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, sometimes the things that make us the most
uncomfortable have the bestreward at the end.
Yes, right, that's how you grow.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
There's a saying that goes the cave we fear to enter
is the one that holds ourtreasure.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Wow, or the bear.
I have gone in a cave beforeand there was a bear.
Something was snoring, at least.
But yeah, that's very apropos.
Yeah for sure, press yourselfAll right Almost there.
It's very rare to have a guessthat's willing to go on an
adventure.
Yeah, and obviously you produceright, you do marketing, you do

(18:14):
videos and content, andsometimes it becomes more about
the content than the shot, thanit does about the experience.
And that's what happens witheverything, and I am very
thankful and happy that youwanted to do this.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Man I'm down.
My original thought was thatdeep, immersive weekend
experiences would also be areally sweet community building
thing where, say, there was 10entrepreneurs and we did a
backpacking trip and there weregroup exercises and connection
things.
That's where my mind goes to interms of this overlap, oh you

(18:47):
should.
You should.
Entrepreneurship with outdooradventure, Because it's so
healing.
It's so healing and this iswhat we need for people who are
stressed and trying to solveproblems all day is to activate
the body and clearly accomplishtheir goals, Like there's no
doubt that we hiked the mountain.
Sometimes an entrepreneurshipis like did I succeed or not?
I can't tell how well I did.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Well, sometimes when you hit your ultimate goal as an
entrepreneur and you fail toreset, it doesn't feel like a
win.
Yeah Right, so yeah.
One thing you should alwaystake note of is you're a younger
entrepreneur.
You're not young, but you're ayounger entrepreneur.
It's a newer business.
Just enjoy the whole journey,much like this hike.
Enjoy the fact that we're on ahike.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, it's the journey, not the destination,
that's right.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, that cliche is so used, but it's used for
purpose.
Everyone feels that way.
Man, look at this view, look atthat train down there.
This is wild, it's a big one.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
So this Look how long it is.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, 200 cars probably, wow.
So this is what got me intohiking.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, this is my first experience.
Yeah, this rock, this rock,yeah, this little hill got you
into hiking.
This has me really stokedbecause when I was in college
this is actually a storyprobably worth telling when I
was in college, my first I wouldcall it deep endeavor was more
community building.
That tends to be how I orientjust more community building,

(20:17):
and sometimes just purely forfun and pleasure, enjoy other
times for business.
Ok, so a friend and I we werein Charleston, south Carolina.
We wanted to go hiking inAsheville on the weekends.
We didn't have a car, so weposted these flyers around
campus and started to organizethese camping trips and
eventually we set up a properclub, an organization in the

(20:40):
school, and it became one of themost popular clubs on campus
and it was an outdoor adventureclub.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
And we had like hundreds of members and we were
doing all sorts of day trips andweekend excursions and
backpacking trips and it createdan amazing sense of community
that we're really centeredaround health, wellness and
nature and made some of my bestfriends from there.
And that was one of my firstreal experiences in larger group
organization.

(21:07):
I love that and that certainlycarried over so you have?

Speaker 1 (21:11):
what age were you?
How old?

Speaker 2 (21:13):
This was college.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
So you have taken this experience and you have
made it universal.
You've always had this altruismvalue, haven't you?
You just wanted to help others.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Wanting to help others, wanting to make an
impact, wanting to bring peopletogether, wanting to create
positive experiences.
Yeah, love it.
All right, onward, upward,onwards and upwards.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
What's the most valuable piece of business
advice someone ever gave you?

Speaker 2 (21:42):
My first thought when I hear that, which was
reinforced last night when I wasat a startup entrepreneur talk
in Brooklyn, was that if youcontinue to grow your business
and you make sure you don't die,which essentially means run out
of money- Well, lots ofbusiness people run out of money
.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
They just capital raise again.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, so whether that means you are bootstrapped and
you're being nimble and youdon't run out of money because
you don't spend more than youmake or your revenue dips
tremendously, if you don't runout of money or if you don't
react quickly enough, you mightrun out of money, but if you can
maintain a business and grow itover many years, then you'll

(22:26):
probably reach your goal.
Whatever that is and I thinkthat's a very simple way to look
at it of, I can optimize allthese things, I can try to grow
and have all these growthtargets, but if I run out of
money, none of it matters.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well, that's where you have to use ingenuity.
I think we need to go this way.
That way yeah Is that we falloff the cliff Says easy, hard.
Oh, we're going up the hard way.
So you built an audience of100,000 plus on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, in 3 and 1 half years, 100,000.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
I would call that healthy 13 million views.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
How did you do it?
How do we do it?
Continuous experimentation andconsistency.
A big part of it tactically.
I like the tactical tips.
When I listen to podcasts, Ialways appreciate the balance of
the emotional perspective,what's needed to succeed?

(23:23):
What's the purpose?
You're doing this, getting theright mindset, but also the
tactics.
So hiring my first video editorwas a great decision and it
showed me the power ofdelegation, investing in the
business.
It was the first time I took abig risk of investing in someone

(23:47):
else in the team that it wasn'tguaranteed that this investment
would return and would bring incustomers or anything like that
.
But you took a risk, took arisk and I was mediocre to bad
at video editing and it drainedmy energy.
The saying of do an audit ofyour time and the things that

(24:11):
you're not competent in or thatreally drain your energy, try to
delegate them to someone who'sBetter than you.
That's right.
Hopefully a lot better than you, or at least someone that you
can afford, who's good enough.
In my case, it was someone whowas good enough, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
So better than good enough, right?
This is your face, this is yourbrand.
Yes, and it really came down towhat you could afford.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Exactly, ok, exactly, it was what I could afford,
completely bootstrapped at thistime, and I spoke with one of my
buddies who runs a startup andhe was saying that he'd found
the best off-shore talent inPhilippines and Ukraine.
So he connected me to a sitewhere I could post my job and I
hired a half-time video editorfrom the Philippines and she has

(24:55):
worked for me for now almostthree years and she's amazing
and it was cost-effective andher skill level was good, it was
solid, and that freed up mytime to actually make more
videos.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
You nailed it, you nailed it you do the jobs you
want to do, that you're great at, and you outsource or hire for
the others.
Now, when you're at zerorevenue, that's probably some of
the toughest pill your largesttough pill to swallow, because
you're spending money on thefact that you're not making
money.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
But if you're unwilling to invest in yourself
and you're unwilling to investin your company, then you're
willing to lose it all Well, thething is that if people had a
confidence of a certainthreshold, they would absolutely
invest the money they haveAbsolutely.
It's that most people thinkyeah, I can spend $5,000 a year

(25:49):
on a video editor, but how do Iknow that I'm going to make
money from it, Meaning, how do Iknow that I'm good enough so
that my message will actuallyconnect with the potential
customers?
How do I know that they'll buymy thing?
So how do you know you don't?

Speaker 1 (26:05):
That right, there is the answer you don't.
You don't.
You had the courage to do it inthe first place.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
You have to have enough confidence, which is
based on research.
If you're the first person everdoing this, well, that's risky.
It might not work for you oranyone.
If there's other people insimilar markets or even in your
same market, and they've alreadyproven that some people will
buy this product or this serviceand this marketing strategy

(26:31):
works for them, then that'susually all signs go that if
you've got skills, you shouldput yourself out there and
commit to it.
So that's how I approach it andthat worked really well for me
in taking that same principle ofdelegation building a team,
bringing people on to do theroles that were necessary but
that were taking up a lot of mytime, and just continuously

(26:54):
doing that, every few monthstrying to reassess and see where
I'm spending time, that anotherperson could do the role better
than me.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Absolutely.
You hire for the right personin the right seat.
Right, Every one of youremployees should be better at
their job than you are, and ifnot, well then maybe we move
them to another seat or,unfortunately, move them out.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
And an important point that was brought up
earlier most of the listenerswill have self-funded
bootstrapped companies.
Yes, I would disagree with you,because in that situation
you're likely to have someonewho's worse than you, let's say,
in sales.
If you hire someone to helpwith sales, it's like you're
going to be the mostincentivized to sell your

(27:34):
product of anyone.
Most to gain, most to lose.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yes, yeah, the CEO or the founder should always be
the best at the sales aspect.
But go on.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah.
So perhaps you just can'tafford someone quite yet who is
better than you.
Or perhaps it's a customerservice person and you say, well
, I would answer the phones alot better, but I can only
afford $20 an hour right now,and in that sense I would say
that's totally fine andnecessary for you to grow and
prove the concept.
But that's the catch-22 ofbeing a bootstrapped,

(28:05):
self-funded startup is that ifyou don't have resources to
invest properly, that you canwait a year for them to pay back
, then you might be in this sortof in-between a rock and a hard
place, Like we are right now.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
We lost a trail a little bit Rock hard place.
This episode is proudly broughtto you by Brand Built, a
dynamic social media networkingcommunity designed to elevate
your success, feeling stuck in abrand loop.
Your brand matters more thanever before and falling behind
is not an option.
Join our dynamic community forexpert social media guidance,

(28:36):
valuable lessons, education,weekly spotlights, monthly
speakers and a robust brandbuilding network.
Explore more at mybrandbuiltcomand join me in the chat for a
thriving journey to success.
I'm going to challenge thatlast thing you said.
Please go ahead.
The CEO, founder, businessowner.

(28:57):
There is a difference betweenall three.
Ceos have the responsibility ofthe shareholders private
companies, the shareholders orthe equity holders, including
the CEO.
Business owner owns a businessDoesn't mean they're great at
managing it.
And the founder founded abusiness, he's the entrepreneur,
doesn't mean that he's themanager.
You can transition in and outof all three from time to time.

(29:18):
The CEO or that business ownerdoesn't have to be the best
person for sales.
They happen to be the one thathas the most to gain, most to
lose.
But there have been manyintroverted CEOs out there that
are just petrified of selling.
Definitely they're not good atcold calling and hunting.
They're OK at farming becausethey have the most to gain, most

(29:38):
to lose yeah Right, I'm withyou.
And they're good at closingbecause, again, they are the
most influential in theorganization.
But if I hire a salesperson, Ihope you're better at your job
than I would be.
That's hopefully your passion.
You're not hired if you don'tdemonstrate the passion.
That's hopefully where you havespent your 10,000 hours being
great at mastering your craft,whereas as a CEO I wouldn't say

(30:01):
I was the world's best salesperson, but I had the most to
gain and lose and I wore myheart on my sleeve and I
explained that.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
But every salesperson had to be better than me, and a
sales hire is an interestingone because you can have it very
performance-based, where thebase salary can, for a
self-funded entrepreneur, notdrain all the money out of your
house, and that actually canwork really well as a strategic
hire, for sure in the earlystages, when you don't have that

(30:27):
much money in the bank.
Who do you believe your firststrategic hire should be?
What role?
As always, it depends on thebusiness, but I'm split between
something that helps you acquiremore customers, so maybe that's
content marketing, maybe that'ssomeone who's writing on
LinkedIn a LinkedIn ghostwriterthat you can meet with them

(30:49):
consistently and create content.
I actually learned that tipfrom one of the guests here on
the pod of meeting consistentlywith a copywriter and sharing
stories, giving them material,and then in the interim between
meetings, they create LinkedInposts and then posting those.
That's right, so I would saythat will be a great hire.
And then I was split betweenthat and a virtual assistant,

(31:13):
someone who can improve yourefficiency during your days with
managing emails, draftingtemplate responses, scheduling
and deleting junk emails thatcome in, and an important lesson
you shouldn't be petrified inmaking that first hire, and I
know a lot of first timebusiness owners that don't have

(31:35):
that experience yet.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
I know that really does hinder them and cripple
them, I know it weighs heavilyon them.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
You mean, you want me to spend money?

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I'm trying to make money.
That's again why I willconstantly say money is not the
goal.
If you're focused on money,you're not making wise and
intelligent intellectualdecisions.
You can't grow a business ifyou're unwilling to hire and
spend some of your investmentJust won't happen.

(32:04):
Now again, outliers, of course,but the majority of businesses
out there.
You need to hire people, so thenext question is where do you
find them?
And if we're hiring thecheapest person to get the job
done, focusing on money, onlyremember how much of your time
is it going to take to re-edit.
Go back and forth, have thosechallenging conversations of

(32:26):
disappointment versus justhiring a professional to get it
done right.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, and for those who are growing their business
perhaps they have a fewemployees or contractors we need
to re-evaluate.
I'm here, you say this, and I'mthinking of my team and how
there's some pieces of our teamright now where I go.
You know, we're sort of justcarrying on what we had 18
months ago and we haven'tnecessarily reassessed from a
fresh perspective and asked hmm,have we outgrown some

(32:54):
components of our business, ofour workflows, of our team?
Yeah, those are toughconversations, those are hard to
make those decisions on, butreally valuable when we do.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So that's a really important point too.
I love this.
This is when we get into themeat of the show and the
conversation right.
There are so many businessowners out there that have had
multi-decade old businesses andthey've been doing things the
old way forever and they'rewondering why are they going
backwards?
Why is their job getting harder?
Why did they really dislikecoming into the office every day

(33:24):
?
I was speaking with anentrepreneur the other day.
We're a business owner,40-year-old business, and their
largest client is underwaterrevenue and profit-wise.
They're spending more money onthe account and it's worth
keeping.
So my immediate response was OK, fix our fire.
You either raise your rates,cut your costs or both.

(33:46):
That's the best.
You have that toughconversation with your client.
We haven't raised rates in 15years.
Unfortunately, because of thecurrent economic landscape, we
must do so.
We hope you stay with us or yousee that client go, because the
amount of time it takes tomanage a client that's
underwater, it's just not worthit.
And use that extra time to gofind new clients.

(34:08):
Go source again.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah.
Can you share your experiencewith managing a team to live up
to their?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
highest potential Starts and ends with you.
It's the culture that you setthat you create.
Do you have an open culture bydesign or by default?
Do you nurture the people thatwork for, mainly with, you?
If your employees see theirsuccess in you, then they will
be more successful themselves.
Do you have people in charge ofleading, managing and

(34:37):
accountability?
Then you have to look at yourprocesses.
Do you have quarterly reviewsat a very minimum?
Do you spend at least an hourwith each employee once a
quarter to review theirperformance against goals that
you set?
Yeah, so in terms of goals.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Do you find that creating goals is a
collaborative process betweenthe employee and you?
Or is it you saying, hey, Iknow where the ship needs to go,
I know we need to hit this goal?
You propose it to your employeeand say here's what I'm
thinking in terms of a goal.
What are your thoughts on this?
How would you approach actuallycreating the goal?
So there's buy-in and itdoesn't just feel like a

(35:17):
top-down order, but ultimatelythis is what we need to be
profitable, grow the businessand everyone's on the same page.
How do you think about that?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
It's both based on the lifespan of the company.
In the beginning, the businessowner has to set the goals.
You're the investor.
You have to set the goals.
You have to say this is what weneed in order to succeed.
Once you start adding on otherroles, like financial roles,
then it's a sit-down.
Where do we need to be to beprofitable, when do we want our
margins to be, et cetera.

(35:46):
When you grow up a littlefurther and you've had great
successful wins, you then hiresomeone who's in charge of
strategic accounts or accountmanagement or sales.
Then it's a collaborativeapproach.
Where do we need to be to setour goals?
Now, if you look at theorganizational structure in a

(36:07):
corporate mentality, acorporation has a board.
The board sets the goals andthe priorities to protect
shareholder value, to protectand grow shareholder value.
So the goals come from theboard.
The CEO then disseminates that,comes up with the plan,
sometimes with the board, andthen delegates throughout the

(36:29):
organization.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
I think that line of thinking can be so valuable for
small teams and early stageentrepreneurs to say, I don't
have a board, I'm the CEO, butbasically I'm not a CEO yet, I'm
just a founder, a small team.
How can I create some form ofthat board type?

Speaker 1 (36:49):
direction.
Do it right.
Create a board.
I think everybody should createa personal board.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
At what point in the business, and is it like an
equity piece?
Is it just a friendlyrelationship?
Is it just a personal mentor.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
It depends.
Everybody should have apersonal mentor, somebody that
they align with, who has beenthere and done what they want to
accomplish, had seen moresuccesses than they have.
Someone who really, truly wantsto see you or the individual
succeed.
Take them under their wing.
I have several people I mentor.
I enjoy seeing their success.
Then there's the paid board,where you pay them on a

(37:23):
quarterly basis or per meeting,and then there's the equity
boards, or a combination of anyand all.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
OK, how does you get connected with the folks that
you are their mentor and it'snot necessarily a paid
relationship, because I thinkthat would be really interesting
for me and all listeners tohear of.
Do research, go on LinkedIn,find similar companies that have
succeeded but aren't yourdirect competitor.
Reach out to them, show up,meet them tactically.

(37:49):
How do you recommend someonefind that mentor?

Speaker 1 (37:52):
So, when it comes to you finding a personal board or
a business board.
Observe and ask.
The biggest fear people have isasking questions, feeling
embarrassed and getting rejected.
Well, that's why it's a fear.
I love rejection.
Rejection is fuel.
Rejection goes in the vengeancebank to prove people wrong, to
succeed again.

(38:13):
Rejection is very strong andyou can use that for power.
But you have to ask.
Chances are you already knowthe mentor in your life.
Maybe it's your uncle who'sowned a company and been there
done that.
Hey, uncle Jimmy, would youmind mentoring me for a little
bit?
And then it's just aconversation.
It can be as simple as that, orit can just be unstated A phone

(38:34):
call every once in a while.
Hey, Uncle Jimmy, I know thatyou've run some businesses.
When do you think I should makemy first hire For me?
I reached out to my uncle.
I said hey, I've got this greatidea.
I want to start a business.
And he's the one who said well,if you don't do it by the time
you turn 30, you're going toregret it.
What's the worst that happens?
You move home with your parentsand you have to get to find
another job.
Well, to me, all he had to sayis you move home with your

(38:56):
parents.
Sorry, mom and dad, and thatwas enough motivation to succeed
.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
But when it comes to After I started my business, I
told you that I wanted to be adigital nomad and travel right.
The first place I went was togo live with my parents at their
house for six months and justobsess over building my business
.
Good, Because I didn't feellike it was secure enough to

(39:22):
actually go and have fun.
It felt so vulnerable and Ineeded to really be on the farm,
sow the seeds, take care of thesoil.
I couldn't go on a trip andhave some storm come and ruin
everything and have to startfrom zero and then go back to
working in the job.
I didn't like that much.
Well, that was your fear right.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
there is to have to go back and work in the job you
didn't like.
Fear is a motivating factor.
Fear is the biggest motivatingfactor.
It's what keeps us away frombears, from being eaten by the
wolves, by failing.
Sometimes it holds us backbecause we get too consumed by
it.
But you hit a good point there.
You hunkered down, so to speak.

(40:02):
You went to live with yourparents.
You cut your cost basis Hermitmode.
I call it Hermit mode.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
You, I was single, no kids, no partner.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Same.
When I started, I had a dog.
Worst case, my parents wouldhave to live with me and a dog.
That wasn't going to happen.
You did what it took andwhatever it took, and as a
business owner, founder andentrepreneur, you have to be
prepared for doing whatever ittakes to suffer.

(40:34):
In a way, you're the one whohas the most to gain and the
most to lose, which means ifyou're not doing well, you're
still hiring that employee tohelp so you could focus on what
you do best, what you want to do.
They're getting paid more thanyou.
My first employee we paid, Iwant to say, $48,000 a year.
She was the person answeringthe phones.

(40:56):
Were you making money at thetime, oh, no, no this was
investment dollars Outsideinvestor dollars.
Yeah, we did a small capitalraise, got it, and that was
enough.
I knew that would last for the12 to 18 month minimum to have a
nice little landing pad Fuel inthe tank, so to speak.
We hired this individual so Ididn't have to sit in the office

(41:18):
and pick up phones all the timeand do everything that needed
to be done for an officemanager's role and I could be
out selling.
I didn't receive my firstpaycheck for two and a half
years, so this individual made alot more than I did, but I just
believed in it.
That's what you need to do andwhat everyone else that starts a

(41:41):
business needs to be preparedfor.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
It's a big game of delayed gratification.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Well, every dollar saved and put back in the
business can be worth 10-fold inthe future.
That's a great perspective.
Again, the goal isn't money.
Money has a finality.
The goal is everything elsethat you want to be, whether
it's ego and you just want to bethis awesome CEO that's famous,
or you want to be a YouTuberand the next Mr Beast.

(42:09):
The money will follow.
All right, guys, let's justcheck where we are on the trail.
Are we staying on white?
I think so.
We're going on.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
I think we're white to yellow, if I remember.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Well, it could intersect.
Nope, we're going up red.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Red.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, if we go on white, we are doing another 12
miles.
If I had a guess no, maybe not,because we can stop here I
zoomed back in, so that'sprobably another four to six
miles that we can go on white.
I know you want to.
I do have other meetings forthe day.

(42:48):
I don't stop.
I wish we could, but I tend toutilize it every hour of the day
.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Go to t-shirt mode here.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
I'm suffering through it.
Luckily, this jacket, I haveit's fleece lined, but it's not
fleece in the back.
Yeah, so it works out nice Twohours in two miles.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
All right, slow pace, one mile per hour.
Oh, I mean we covered a lot ofelevation With scrambly, a lot
of elevation gain.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, no, I'm proud of you, my friend.
This was awesome.
This is pretty apropos for yourbusiness success as well as the
show Right, it's upward.
Yeah, it's constantly upwardlately.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I love it.
I'm really grateful to be here.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, grateful that you reached out, and that right
there proves your success.
You essentially reached out tome.
You took the ask.
You weren't afraid of it.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I was sitting on my couch, it was 10pm at night and
I had listened to a number ofthe pod episodes and I thought
you know what?
I'm in New York?
Let's do this.
You did it, we just readjusthere.
I'm excited.
I'm excited to see how thisevolves.

(44:07):
As I've said, there's a lot ofadventures in the world and
medium of recording content ispretty fascinating to me.
It's like the adventure channelmeets business podcast.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
It's a good way to describe it.
Readjust my mic Test test, test, test test test.
Okay, all right, then we'reback.
Yeah, you're a teacher.
I'm a little jealous.
Unfortunately, I'm strappedinto all of this, so to take it

(44:42):
all off, all right, do a testCount backwards from 10.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Ben oh, 10, 9, 8, 7, 5.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Okay, you're good.
10, 9.
All right, test Okay.
Now we have some great contenttoday, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Great Congolese.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, Hopefully some of the stuff in the beginning
stays in.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
but that's the warm-up round and we warmed up
Is your editor English as thefirst language.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yes, yes, his name is Rio.
He lives in New Mexico, nice.
First person I've ever met inNew Mexico.
He's an awesome dude and he'sfantastic at his job.
That's great.
He's also my partner in this.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah, he's really a complex episode.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
This is beyond complex.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
He's going to have to listen very tentatively to
every minute.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
As he has said to me before, and the only person that
would counter that point is mywife.
Yeah, he has to listen to memore than anyone else.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, yeah, but he can speed you up.
It's not so bad.
I love him for that.
He can put you on two X speeds,sometimes four.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
All right, we are finally on our descent not as
treacherous, but man, this waskiller.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
This was epic, amazing Full circle for you.
This is the first time you'vebeen back.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
No, this is the first time that I've been back to
breakneck.
It's an hour and a half drive,little over actually.
It's also not a hike.
I think many guests can do this.
Required technical skill.
Hand placement was veryimportant on a couple of those
ascents, foot placement etcetera.
Yeah, nice little walk in thewoods.

(46:16):
Well, right now it is.
So when I first started outmaybe second or third hike I
used to hike with poles becauseit's easier on the back, but I
fixed my back with all thishiking Wow, amazing.
So I don't use poles anymore.
And plus the click lack.
That's great, it's not good foraudio.
Yeah, let's just note here,because we've got a lot of ice.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
So what's next for Ben?
Well, I'm running a telehealthcompany with my brother right
now.
Him and I are the founders,owners, operators.
How?

Speaker 1 (46:44):
old is the company.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
The company is two years old.
Okay, the first year and a halfwas me making a YouTube channel
and then, about a year and ahalf in, I started to try to
monetize it and create atelehealth brand, hire other
audiologists to do the servicecomponent.
So it wasn't just me and webuilt out a team patient care

(47:06):
coordinators, sort of like thefront desk at a clinic.
But ours is a virtual clinic,so we have our clinic right now
is about the size of threevirtual clinics.
Excuse me, our virtual clinicis about the size of three
in-person normal healthspecialist clinics.
So that helps put it into frameof reference here.
And our current run rate interms of how the business is

(47:28):
performing, which is the grossrevenue this month times 12, is
just over $2 million.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
So we've grown it from zero to a respectable
amount in two years and I willsay that is extremely
respectable, especially sincethe majority of businesses right
and the actual statistic onthis, I think it's 95% do not
make a million in revenue at all.
They do not cross that boundary, and that's okay.

(47:54):
Convenience stores, restaurants, very small micro businesses
even they don't cross that Right80% or 80 something percent,
don't know the exact statisticnow, but last time I looked, 80%
of startups don't make it tothe first year.
Of those 20%, the majority, thevast majority, don't make it to
the fifth year and the majorityin the 90%ile range do not see

(48:17):
a million in revenue, if ever.
So congratulations, that is afantastic number.
So let me ask you this complexquestion.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
We're grateful, we're proud and we have the team
right now who's pushing thisforward.
He has definitely a groupeffort and we're very focused on
serving our community, servingour customers, serving the
patients that work with us oreven those who get our free
information, and we're in it tobuild a brand for 20 years plus.
We don't have any intention asof now to sell the business and

(48:48):
we're making strategicinvestments in the long term.
So, content marketing, seo,youtube, building a brand, other
things that are coming in thefuture that I don't want to talk
about right now.
All those are.
That's where we're at and yeah,I mean it sounds crazy, but
there were some tailwindssupporting us.
Some of entrepreneurship ischoosing the right market,

(49:11):
having the right timing.
Operators can have a lot ofleeway and grace if they're in
the right market and they starttheir business at the right time
.
So we're.
Telehealth started near thebeginning of COVID in the
pandemic.
That certainly was a big boonin terms of online healthcare
Companies like Hymns and Hers,which is a major VC, funded

(49:33):
direct to consumer health brandtelehealth component.
I think they saw significantrevenue increases because of the
pandemic people going onlineand then, generally speaking,
the baby boomer generation isreally at the largest generation
of adults right now and they'regrowing into their 60s and 70s
and folks tend to develophearing loss and tonight is

(49:54):
ringing in the ears around thatage.
So all those factors are reallysupporting us, their wins in
our sale, as we're working hardevery day, every week and trying
to optimize the business.
Love it.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
So do I have your permission to mentor you a bit,
please?
Yeah, you had mentioned you'reabout two million in revenue,
right, phenomenal number.
But then you followed it withwe don't have any plans on
selling.
Strike that from yourconversation.
No reason to, because one I cantell you right now.
Selling a two million dollarbusiness with this economy,

(50:30):
you're going to walk away with awhole bunch of upset moments
and depression when you realizehow quickly that money
disappears to your third partner, uncle Sam.
And also, that's too little.
Again, the goal isn't money,but you're not selling a
business and you don't want tosell a business.
You want to grow a business.

(50:50):
Yeah, exactly, don't even thinkabout it.
So what I did there is calledcare frontation.
Get your permission to give yousome criticism.
You gave me the authority,which means you've opened up and
are willing to listen to it.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, completely consent to any feedback you have
.
And yeah, we have.
It's a good management tool.
We have no intention of selling.
So what comes to your mind whenyou hear that from a young
entrepreneur?
That the notion is that I'mgoing to grow a business and
sell it, even when I just said Ihave no intention of selling it
.
Yes, because even thepossibility of selling it is in

(51:26):
my mind, because anyonelistening to this show that is
investment minded.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
They're going to hear a business that started and
grew inside of three years,already crossed two million in
revenue, has over a hundredthousand subscribers on YouTube
telemedicine, boomer generationservicing a strong need.
They're going to hear that aspossible acquisition target or
early investor and yourchallenge in taking money too

(51:52):
early is you give up too muchequity, correct.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
So it just.
I heard a great tip on thisfrom another pod.
Actually, one of theco-founders of Netflix has a
great pod and he shared this,which I resonate.
Is it Mark Randolph?
Yes, correct.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
So I come back to this.
By the way, Mark, if you arelistening, I am still waiting
for your dates to go hike.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
He's an outdoors guy, so I think that could happen, I
know.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
He's an outdoors guy on the West Coast and I might be
going out to the West Coast inthe next few months Amazing, I'm
a big, well-known guest whichI'm going to be doing.
A few of them.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Amazing Stream together.
Yes, so he shared.
There's two times that make alot of sense to raise money with
investors.
One is when it's just an ideaand nothing else, so that you
can use the money to fund thefirst few years of the business
and really prove out if the ideaactually works or not.
The second is when you have aproven acquisition channel that

(52:50):
you put a dollar in you get Xamount back, and that makes a
lot of sense.
Otherwise, at least the waythat we're operating it
otherwise, just grind, stayfocused, have slow, steady,
sustainable growth over time.
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (53:08):
on that.
It depends.
Yeah, right, I'd be amiss if Igave you true advice on that,
because it really depends onyour feeling, your stamina, your
energy.
True, a lot of people willprefer the slow and steady,
because slow and steady isconsistent and reliable.
Slow and steady brings in thebacon.
Right, you keep that paycheck.
What you'll see happen often iswhen you have success in a

(53:29):
business, the business ownerwill throttle back a little bit
to de-risk the risk that theyalready took.
Yeah, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
To protect their earnings.
They currently have theirassets.
Yeah Right.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
I saw it happening with myself.
I get it.
It happens, and that's when theintersection of lifestyle
purpose and value come to a head.
If you like the position you'rein, then you don't want to risk
that and lose that.
But if you're in a fast grosscompany and your whole goal is
to raise as much capital aspossible, than do so.
It's a very different mentalityright there.

(54:02):
So it really depends on theperson and the situation.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, Well, yeah, it's always in the mind, whether
it's in our subconscious deeplystored, or we want to do it
next year of okay, we'recreating a lot of value.
There are options in life, butI don't want to get too ahead of
myself and you are young.
Yeah, you know what your optionis Super young Again.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Remove the money aspect.
Yeah, your options and youropportunity are just freaking.
Enjoy what you're doing.
Yeah, enjoy it.
Yeah, go kind of where the windtakes you, as long as it's
within your plan.
Yeah, be willing to pivot ifthings aren't working out.
Be willing to challenge yourown ideas and yourselves.
Be willing to challenge yourbrother and we're going to talk

(54:46):
about the complexities ofworking with a business partner.
That's our brother in a moment.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yes, Be willing to challenge everything.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
By the way, I noticed you have the same technique as
I do when traversing a descentUse zigzag, Zigzag yeah, yep,
for those who've hiked in theRockies or the Seagrass, you're
going to crash into each other.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
They have the trails, that zigzag, and they're
designed for horses, for horsesto travel up the mountain.
But generally speaking, in theEast Coast, in the Appalachians
and the Northeast, the trailsare more just straight because
they're older, and someone toldme that once and I thought wow,
that is Generally true and it'smuch easier to hike zig-zags.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
It is because you're straightening it out.
You're leveling it just alittle bit, running down the
middle mountain.
It might be faster, but if youfall you're going to roll Not
good on these rocks.
So let me ask you a questionaround YouTube, has it generated
revenue for you?
Or is it simply a marketinginitiative with a cost?
Or is it just neutral?

Speaker 2 (55:46):
For the first few years.
It was essentially how weacquired an audience, which led
to awareness, consideration, andthen, whether they joined our
email list or went on ourwebsite and signed up for a
consultation, that's how weacquired customers.
Our niche is veryeducation-focused, meaning that

(56:08):
people with Tinnitus sometimesgo to their local doctor and
they don't know what to do withthem.
They're told hey, there's notmuch you can do, there's not a
surgery or medication I have foryou, so just try to learn to
live with it.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
We'll hear that off.
With what you have tonight todeal with it, we'll go into an
education around it in a second,but yes, please continue.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yeah, so there's many businesses that have education
as a core function.
For example, asleep is abusiness that I've studied a
little bit.
They have this mattress andtheir marketing team, over time,
realized the best way toacquire customers is not to sell
the features of the mattress.
It's to educate people on thebenefits of good sleep 100%

(56:48):
correct Education.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
People want to be educated.
They'll be tuned in if they'relearning.
They don't want to be sold toDifferent world.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
we live in.
Yeah, and that makes a lot ofsense and we can take those
learnings and apply them tocertain businesses.
Now I would say that doesn'tapply to I'm buying toilet paper
.
It's like, usually speaking, Ijust want the cheapest toilet
paper.
That's good enough.
There's, of course, a premiummarket.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
I'd like it to differ on that assessment.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
And is part of it.
If you have a product that'smore expensive where you want to
educate on why it's moreexpensive and maybe that impacts
the listeners.
But overall, youtube is a greatplatform for education.
That's a lot of what we do.
It builds trust, it builds thebrand and from there, someone
who can learn about what we doand the treatment options we

(57:35):
have with our company, then theywould take the action to go off
of the YouTube platform, joinour email list or take our quiz.
Funnel survey.
Funnel recommended freeconsultation.
Sign up for a consultation witha doctor on our team and then
potentially sign up to work inour program, which is more of a

(57:56):
white glove experience.
It's a combination of remoteprogramming of medical devices,
hearing aids, for tinnitusRemote programming wow.
As well as one-on-one coachingand counseling over Zoom.
So it's the comprehensivepackage, but that's essentially
how YouTube works.
Now, in the last year or so, wedid turn on YouTube ad revenue,
so we get some amount of moneyjust from YouTube showing their

(58:20):
ads on our videos, which isincredible when you compare that
to Facebook ads.
Many companies acquirecustomers through Facebook ads.
They pay Facebook to acquirecustomers.
Youtube is paying me and I'macquiring customers.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Isn't that crazy.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Your effort is being rewarded, versus you being
treated like just anothercustomer in the sales process
for a machine.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Yeah, I think YouTube is being generous.
I'll say that.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Well, that's also why YouTube, though, is a Good
brand.
I want to say it is much morewell-regarded because of the
community aspect that it takesyou work hard you make money,
you generate revenue.
As with the other platforms,you work hard.
It costs you more money, soyou're double investing in

(59:10):
essence.
So I want to correct you on onething when you do accumulate
wealth, your mentality aroundthe cheapest toilet paper that
works will change.
I will say you never want toput yourself in a shitty
situation.
The one advantage of havingsome wealth you buy the good
stuff, Leave it at that.
You also I'm a pretty frugalguy.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
So who knows?
But I'm with you, which is fine.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
I'm with it that frugality never changes and it
should never change.
And since you brought that up,I will pivot to this part
because it's really importantand I have faced it myself.
Yale School of Management did astudy on after-exit
entrepreneurs entrepreneurs thathad successful exits and their
mental condition and what to doand what not to do, and it
unequivocally was able to provewhen you win the lottery we all

(59:55):
know that the lottery winnerssuffer there's a tragedy of some
sort.
We know this.
It's because why?
Because their lifestyle hadchanged.
They went from nothing, orpresumably nothing in most cases
, to all of a sudden beingwealthy and they go crazy.
That's what happens to a lot ofentrepreneurs that don't plan
an after-exit strategy.
What the Yale study was able toshow is do nothing out of the

(01:00:19):
ordinary.
If you were frugal before, befrugal after.
Don't change who you arefundamentally as a person.
Don't go out and buy theFerrari right away.
Wait a year.
Don't buy the new house.
Don't build the new house.
Don't buy the boat, don't buythe plane, because that's not
who you are fundamentally.
The reason why Warren Buffettis able to be Warren Buffett is
because, fundamentally, he hasnot changed Still the person.

(01:00:42):
That, for someone as wealthy ashim, lives humbly and teaches
that and preaches that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
I believe that anyone listening to this pod is
someone who has an open mind.
Of course, I would hope so.
Nature teaches us lessons aboutdeath, rebirth, change,
resiliency, hiking, adventure.
I like to think that thoselistening have a more nuanced

(01:01:10):
perspective on what successlooks like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I would hope so, but not always.
We all have our own stereotypesrunning around in our mind.
People just sometimes don'teven think about these questions
that we've.
Now I want to pivot again.
You talk about telehealth,telemedicine.
I love that business becausethat is our world today.
I had started business therapygroup and it's telemedicine for
your business.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
For that purpose Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
I resonate deeply with you and I'm happy you were
finding success in this.
People need help, but theydon't want to travel an hour.
You nailed it, man.
Keep it up.
Let's talk about your brothernow.
Love it, three pivots, love itAll.
Right, you have decided topartner up with your brother,
exactly Older or younger.
He's six years older.
Six years older.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
What's his role?
He focuses on the operationsand the finance.
My focus is on marketing andcontent.
You're the visionary.
He's the integrator.
Natural, we both share thestrategy piece of it which we
enjoy.
The great thing about workingwith your family member is

(01:02:13):
there's no guilt in having longconversations deep into the
night and calling each other atany hour.
You're never worried of oh, amI annoying him?
You're way past that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Have there ever been any strong disagreements?

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Nothing that couldn't be figured out in a few days,
but there were perhaps somedifferent strategic viewpoints
of we should do this, no, weshould do this.
We should spend money on thisno, we're not ready to spend
money on this.
Generally speaking, both of usare pretty risk tolerant and I

(01:02:49):
think a lot of decisions cancome down to whether you're risk
averse or risk tolerant.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Who has the final say , the decision making?

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
It's definitely split and if anyone vetoed a decision
, it wouldn't go through.
Part of the situation ofessentially being equal owners
in the business is that there isno 51-49.
I actually can make all thedecisions, given that we're
family and that, ultimately, wecare for each other's happiness
and we love each other, that wevow to never put the business or

(01:03:23):
making money in front of eachother and our relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
What you have is great.
It is special.
You have two brothers that arealigned with a vision.
You have a visionary in you.
You have an integrator in yourbrother, naturally set, but I
can see it in you.
The challenge you're going toface, especially as 50-50 equity
is it won't always be success,roses and wins.
There will be times where youwill need somebody to have that

(01:03:49):
extra point.
For the same reason, you have acontract.
Remind you of what you agreedupon during the good times.
I would highly recommend yousit down with your brother,
maybe like a prenup, maybe likeyou would in any relationship,
discuss what happens when we arein a dissenting disagreement,
because doing nothing is not theanswer.

(01:04:10):
You will miss opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
I hear you, and having some form of a mediator
is certainly a system that hasbeen proven.
I hear you.
I hear you that there are manyfolks who have had an aspiration
that we are family, everythingis going to work out and then
sometimes it doesn't.
We are both signing up to worktogether.
We can't predict the future,but we can only control the

(01:04:35):
decisions we make leading up toyes.
They are likely, I imagine inpartnerships.
At some stage one persondecides I'm kind of set, I might
just chill a bit with my familyand work half time and kind of
take the foot off the gas alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
That happens more than you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
And the other person says what are you doing?
You are missing thisopportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
So I recognize that with one of my partners he was
ready to call a quits.
Just dealing with employees canbe tough after a while.
Right, a silly long standingemployee is the needs and the
wants.
Changed the power dynamicchanges and I saw in one of my
partners he was on his bodylanguage.
He just didn't want to dealwith certain situations.
I tried to fix it, couldn't fixit and that's when I knew I got

(01:05:17):
to make big moves because thisisn't going to work for the long
run.
If all parties are not pullingtheir weight and being the best
that they can be, then it tearsit apart.
Hey listener, thanks for hikingalong with us.
Discover more episodes athightoka-hikecom.
Or to recommend an adventurousguest, apply to be a sponsor, or
to simply drop us a line.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
We probably have another mile to go.
It's a ball, to my mind, don'tit be interesting?
Tim Ferriss did a good one ofthis where he's like I interview
amazing guests, but you guyshave asked me to learn about me,
so I'm just going to record apodcast where it's just me
talking and I'm going to ask methe kinds of questions I ask my
guests, and that'd beinteresting.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
So that is slated If we get a lot of snow.
I do want to do a snow showingepisode where I will have an
episode of me asking me.
But yeah, it's a little awkward.
I do this because I reallyenjoy it.
There's zero revenue from this.
Maybe one day, who knows?
But I do this because Ithoroughly love conversations
with strangers and getting toknow you.

(01:06:19):
I don't know a thing about you.
I maybe know your name.
I look at your background realquick.
I give a quick exchange, anemail, where I ask you the four
standard questions that I askeveryone, and that is what
drives me and it drives me aswell that people love it.
It's a good audience, for sure.
It's fantastic.
Well, if I was Daisy Joplin, Iwould drink out of this fast

(01:06:43):
moving stream.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
So let me pivot to the question I always ask Do you
consider yourself successful?

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Ben Thompson.
I consider myself verysuccessful because just over
three years ago my biggest dreamwas to make $3,000 a month as a
minimum so I could leave my dayjob at the hospital and have
enough confidence to keepworking on a business, have a

(01:07:11):
lifestyle where I could workremotely, I could be with
friends or family, I could makemy own schedule, I could go
hiking, I could go surfing, Icould spend extra time with my
family.
And I have that now and I'mgrateful for that and I want to
maintain that.
But over time I realize that asmuch as I can serve myself,

(01:07:32):
that reaches the point ofcompleteness in some sense.
And now it's about servingothers, and in my line of work I
chose to be a healthcareprovider.
It's inherently service based,it's giving, it's trying to help
people, and the population thatwe're helping are to some
degree, vulnerable andunderserved people with tinnitus

(01:07:53):
who are told by other doctorsthere's not much they can do.
People with hearing loss whoare trying to communicate with
their friends and family andjust get back to living life.
So that's now.
Our purpose is to serve themwhile maintaining the lifestyle
that keeps me invigorated.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
All right.
So you had mentioned the moneyaspect.
Your success was wrapped aroundif I could make $3,000 a month,
and when you made $3,000 amonth, you realize that's not
enough.
Your real goal was framed in Iwant to do enough to be able to
afford the lifestyle that Ireally want Exactly Right.
Now see the difference.
Exactly the monetary value hasno bearing on that.

(01:08:29):
Yeah, because I can tell youyou could live off of $2,000.
You can live off of $5,000.
You can live off of $50,000.
Yeah, it doesn't matter, youwant the lifestyle.
That's the real goal of thepurpose.
So I find you to be altruisticin that sense of helping others
in an underserved medical arena.
I will tell you my old tenaisevery once in a while.
I get the ring and then it goesaway.

(01:08:50):
So I wear your plugs atconcerts now.
Very good, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
You get a golden sticker from your audiologist
here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Yes, golden stickers.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Love it.
Is it a star?
You know it All right, like theold school stars.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Yeah, my mother was a elementary school teacher, so I
used to rock those sheets allthe time.
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Yeah, I really understand positive
reinforcement elementary schoolteachers.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
Let's just say that you make us kids sometimes Love
you mom.
But with that being said so, ifsomeone does have tenaitis or
mild tenaitis, what's the bestadvice you can give them?

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
if you had like just one piece of advice, it's to
understand that the tenaitis iscoming from the auditory brain
and it has some connectionbetween the ear, as well as the
central nervous system, and theemotional brain.
So anxiety, insomnia, stresscan actually make it louder.

(01:09:44):
Hyper focusing on trying tosolve the issue and turn it off
can make it louder.
So being aware of that feedbackloop and taking care of your
health, your sleep, your ears,getting a hearing test, checking
if there's any medical issuegoing on, that would be my
recommendation for how to start.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
I think it's really apropos that the train was
blaring the horn as you weresaying that, absolutely, oh,
that's perfect.
So, ben, as we come to theconclusion of our trail and our
hike, I want to thank you.
But before we end, what is yourdefinition of success?

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
It comes down to happiness and serving others,
that is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
I love that.
Happiness is number one on thelist.
If you are not happy, you aremiserable.
If you are miserable, you feelit physically, mentally and
emotionally and you won't earnwhatever you want to earn.
Be happy first.
Be healthy second.
Put in your third whatever ismost important, as your third.
Amen to that.
So, Ben Thompson, I want tothank you for hiking along with

(01:10:47):
me today on this 10 out of 10,most challenging, most epic hike
, Breakneck Ridge in New York.
This was a game changer and younot only kept up, you paced.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Thank you so much.
Absolutely, darren, and biglove to you, brother.
And if anyone wants to reachout to chat about YouTube
marketing, tinnitus, tinnitus,treble, health, anything, I'm on
LinkedIn, so let's buildcommunity and feel free to reach
out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Next time when I took a hike, we are filled with
energy, ascending alongside avibrant, successful leader and
achiever, with Rob Basso.