John Furth - Highly Functioning Methodology - I Took a Hike

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right.
So, john Firth, are you okaywith being recorded on a podcast
?
Yes, I am.
Well, there goes that liability.
This is I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and Parktime WildernessPhilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors, wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.
In this captivating episodeventure through Liberty State

(00:25):
Park with John Firth, a skilledbusiness advisor and CEO coach,
our discussions delve intoinspiring coaching moments and
motivational insights, pairedwith a revelation that will
astound and stun you.
Brace yourself for a shockingtwist as John unveils a secret
that he has grappled with formany years, a revelation that

(00:47):
left me as stunned as you'll be.
Stroll alongside this deeplyintense conversation when I Took
a Hike with John Firth.
This episode grapples with somedifficult subject matter.
You will certainly want tolisten to the end.
We are hiking Liberty StatePark, which, arguably, I don't
know if it's a hike, but we arewalking, we are moving, so we're

(01:08):
staying true with the show.
And you did get into anaccident.
So hiking a real hike, truehike, a moderately defined trail
, would be a little too rough.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
So yeah, we didn't want to have to stop the
interview in the middle.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yes, I always make accommodations and pick the
personality of the guest.
So who is John Firth?
Oh God, why do we care about?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
you.
Why do I care about myself?

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I think, oh, don't we all ask that question, right?
That's the everyday impostersyndrome.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, well, it depends on what saboteur you
have, if you're pleased, or youreally do have to strictly ask
yourself what do I want?
Why do I do everything foreverybody else and not for
myself?
Slightly different than what wewere talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Well, are you a pleaser?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
No, okay there you go , so you don't have to worry
about that box.
Well, it's interesting youbring that up because I'm
depending on the.
You know I've taken the test acouple of times, but it always
comes out the same.
The top three are controller,hyper-rational and
hyper-achiever.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, let me interject for a second.
When you talk about saboteur,you are talking about a specific
style of coaching and aspecific program, so a lot of
the listeners will not know whatthese terms are.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
So if you want to go quickly into that, because you
will throw these around- I wasdeveloped by a man named Shazad
Sharmine and he um psychiatrist,I think has a PhD in psychiatry
, and then did an MBA atStanford and, I think, went on
to found and run a softwarecompany.
And when he was finished withthat then my understanding is he

(02:42):
decided to take what he hadlearned and turned it, turned it
into an actual methodology, andhe did that together with
Stanford Graduate School orSchool of Business, and that
became the imposit ofintelligence and he wrote a
best-selling book which I alwayssuggest people listen to not
necessarily read that's how Iread it and then a whole course.

(03:06):
Now the course is funded by theUS government specifically for
coaches.
Anybody can take it, but it's$1,000, but it was designed to
really make it embedded inmodern coaching practice as a
methodology that, if not exactlycutting edge, really pulls a

(03:28):
lot of strands together at leastit did for me and it does for
me and my groups, and the basisbeing that, again, nothing
radically new in that sense.
But the more positive you canstay through thick and thin, the
more access you have to yourprefrontal cortex, which is
where logic and creativityproblem-solving is, as opposed

(03:51):
to negative thoughts which cut apathway down to your big delaw.
Obviously, because in primitivetimes, when so much change was
physical, it was always.
With it came a fear and anegative thought like I'm about
to get killed If I don't runaway from this tiger.
And so it's a primitiveresponse that is triggered by a

(04:13):
negative thought like I'm goingto be killed.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So I have taken this course thank you very much,
right and I found it reallybeneficial Now for me what
everyone takes something uniqueand personal and lately personal
out of whatever course ormethod you're trying, because we
can't set ourselves anobjective.
Buddy For me, it was arequirement to focus and

(04:35):
meditate at specific pointsthroughout the day.
And it.
I'm going to use the termgamified it, right, but it's not
a game.
But for me it was a game.
It was a competitive matrix forme to follow.
Okay, it was an app and somereally good teaching.
So you know, I did find valuein it.
When you take time to meditateon it or even think intently

(04:58):
about some habit that you haveor don't want to have, you bring
attention to it.
When you bring attention andawareness to something, you can
start the corrective procedure,if that's what you choose to do.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
If you evaluate it properly.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's correct.
So the reason why I wanted tohike with you is I've considered
you a coach to myself, which isa compliment, right?
Well, it's true.
When I had met you, I was, youknow, it was COVID stages.
I was hitting my own depressionas well, my own anxiety and my
own self-doubt, and I had metyou at the right time.

(05:34):
And I remember our firstmeeting I felt energized,
invigorated.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
As did I.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah and well, so what I did?
I was actually with my wife inthe car and I said you know what
?
I think I have this weirdscenario where it's a coach
helping a coach, vice versa, andour relationship kind of has
worked out that way.
So I've found inspiration inmeeting and talking with you.
So I wanted to take you on ahike and make an episode out of

(06:02):
this, because I find you to beinteresting, fascinating and
successful as a coach and you'veinspired me.
So I thought, hey, let's startwalking one foot in front of the
next and see what it's like andthen finally meet, yes, finally
, yeah.
Now we'll say I have met others, and I'm sure a lot of people
will relate to what I'm about tosay.
I have met people over the vidagain, right, right, met them

(06:27):
for the first time in person andI was just like a bad blind
date, disappointed, yeah, letdown turned off in a way by
people that I have met in person.
That is not the case now, soqualify that.
But I'm sure we've all had thatwhere you meet someone and it's
like, oh, you're a lot shorterthan I am.

(06:48):
Nobody can say that about me.
Taller is okay, yeah, but yeah,that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Relationships dissipate when you meet.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah or can be yeah, let's see.
Have I met somebody where I wasmore impressed with them than
on Zoom?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
No, what about me Wait a minute.
Okay, self promotion here.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
You're thinner than I thought you were going to be
Well, because originally Iwasn't.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
While I was, you know , entrapped in the house like
everyone else, I had the gymright.
I was working out a lot.
Now I've thinned out since I'vebeen hiking, which has
overruled the daily gym routinefor obvious reasons, or you get
endurance instead of strength.
Exactly, this is more cardio ifwe take a heavy, hard hitting
hike and just endurance forwalking.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, my father was a great hiker.
He was born in Vienna, he inAustrians, or you know.
They got the mountains and Ijust loved to hike and his diet
was not particularly goodViennese diet isn't.
He'd love sweet things.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, sausages.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Sausages is less so in his case, but bread and
cheese nothing where he'd writehome and say, oh, I found this
great new diet.
He was never fat, not a Danishlife, and it's because he walked
so much.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
I'm the same, but that's genetics.
So hate me or don't, it doesn'tmatter, right?
We all have something that wehave to our benefit.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, genetics plays a huge role.
Me, my father and my youngestbrother have never had huge
weight problems and we can eatany garbage we want to and we've
stayed, you know, more or lessthin not in shape, at least thin
my brother and my mother.
But my brother in particular,ex football player, weighs 350
pounds, has had three hard, hadthree heart attacks by the age

(08:34):
of 52.
He's an ex football player andnever modified his diet and
never did a roberick exercise,always went right for the
weights.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Was he a professional football player?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, he was college.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
College football, All right.
So what position Offense ordefense we could start there?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Knowing his personality, I'd have to say
offense, how do you not?
This is your brother, I know,but it's football, did you not
like him?
Oh, okay, we're going rightinto it.
Yeah, he's a.
Oh, I shouldn't say that.
Well, you can always take thisout.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, we won't know.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
He's an arch Republican.
Okay, I just pissed off half myclientele.
However, my father was a reallyquite brilliant lawyer and
actually worked at the DOJ, andso I always pulled the.
I can't believe.
You're part of our family,don't you have a little self
respect?
The father was, you know, quitea well known lawyer, very
successful, very ethical.
How can you possibly come upwith these stories about why the

(09:31):
investigations are anything butbut the truth?
Okay, so?

Speaker 1 (09:36):
so here's the thing, right.
I find it funny how oneperson's belief can completely
ostracize them.
Now, from what we know of me,on the show, I sit in the middle
and I literally do.
I will listen to both sides.
I like to make intelligentdecisions and I pick and choose
which I like.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Right, because you know what that makes sense Okay,
in business context, politicsor the biggest no flies on, you
absolutely need to not go there.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
You don't go to politics, you don't go to
religion.
I avoid it.
In social situations, sometimesI indulge, but again I do sit
somewhere in the middle.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
As you should.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, because I think both sides are both sides are
completely crazy, and you justmade a crazy statement, so I'm
going to pick on you for asecond.
Okay, sure, you dislike a largesegment of your brother because
he votes one way.
Now, now I'm going to go outand say that this is one what
makes America great, right andI'm not making a.

(10:40):
Trump statement.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I'm just saying what makes America?

Speaker 1 (10:42):
great is that you can have.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
By the way, I don't dislike Trump.
I dislike his behaviors and theway he goes about doing things.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, so that's an important setup there.
You don't have to like a personor you don't have to like what
they say, right, but you canvalue them as a human or not,
whatever, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
But what he was, president, I mean he wants to
say it's something, yeah thattakes something about being a
president.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Everybody that that knocks on him constantly.
They don't realize you go be apresident.
Right, right, it's a shitty joband it's a hard job to get it's
actually statistically I'mgoing to some statistics the
most deadly job in Americabecause 10% of its workforce

(11:24):
small numbers here 10% of itsworkforce has been assassinated.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Although we haven't had a good assassination.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well, we're not going there on this show.
Okay, what you are about tolisten to is not the typical.
I took a hike episode.
We aim to inspire, motivate andencourage personal and business
growth with stories told by theachievers on this show.
John Firth has certainly seenmany successes as a coach,
motivator and mentor.

(11:51):
His admission in this episodetakes us on a deeply personal
journey that many can relate to.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I have a question for you what is the most astounding
thing you have heard?

Speaker 1 (12:18):
No, I go by my most shocking moments when Alan
Murville asked me if he can talkabout something personal and I
said be as personal as you want,and he tells a story of being

(12:41):
molested, not once, but twice.
That was the most shockingthing I have ever heard in a
moment of time.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Is he a?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
client?
No, he is a friend, a colleague, and I sit on the board of one
of his companies.
In terms of a client.
As far as a client goes, areyou?
screening a photo.
I had a client open up abouthis arrest once when he was a
teenager.

(13:08):
Obviously we will not say whoit is, but he had assaulted
someone with a baseball bat.
Not that person at all.
A very astounding businessmanCreated lots of successful
business ventures.
This was a moment in time, in amoment in rage, in a

(13:31):
potentially explosive scenario.
The other one was I had aclient say Google me, which I
did.
I did not find anything.
He said now Google thisnickname along with my last name
.
I did, and oh boy, talkingabout someone who made Sammy the
bull Gravano look like an angel.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
It wasn't him, of course.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
No, that was his cousin.
Then he explained to me now myclient is an upstanding business
person, fantastic business.
He was actually a vendor ofmine and I really enjoyed it.
I thought he was fantastic atrunning this great business.
That's where the therapy began.
He had confided in me and hiredmy services to make sure that

(14:17):
he never turned into theantithesis because he had
moments of extreme rage, extremestress and his head would go to
a bad place.
He's constantly fighting abattle where there's one
direction pulling him to makebad decisions and there's

(14:39):
another running this greatbusiness that's taking off and
doing so well because of hisefforts.
Let's talk about this accident.
Walk us through this.
I've knocked wood, hoped tonever be in a serious accident
and have a couple of stupidfender benders of my own, some
my fault, some not.
That's part of learning.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Here comes the shocker.
You ready for it?
Yep, here comes the confession.
I'm probably going to ask youto edit it out.
I have a substance abuseproblem Currently.
Yep, still have it.
I'm in recovery.
Not doing that well with it,given to the cravings typically.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
So I had a substance.
We're talking either Coke,ecstasy, mali, mdma, definitely
not meth, because you would haveno teeth.
No, I'd sniff.
Oh really, Despite my steadyoutward demeanor, my own
thoughts are racing to catch upwith what I've just heard.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, you have your teeth Well, because I also know
how to manage it and I also havea certain sense of.
I have enough ambition, socialinstincts and whatever to work
very hard at managing it.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
My coaching approach has consistently been one of
support and influence, neverjudgment.
What might seem like completeacceptance is my strategy for
creating a secure and openenvironment for effective
communication.
So I'm gonna throw somecoaching skills out there.
I don't fault you, blame you orthink anything differently of

(16:07):
you.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
By the way, I knew we were gonna get here, so I
thought, okay, we might as welldo it I didn't.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you asked me before what is the most shocking
thing someone has done?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
to me that was the worst shock test.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
I've seen.
Yeah, that one.
I wasn't expecting you, of allpeople, to tell me this.
So, okay, so you currently havea meth addiction, right, but
yet you have a life.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right, so here's a couple facts about it, or things
I've learned.
I've learned a lot is, inparticular, with Christmas and
GHB, because it's usually offand go hand in hand.
Yeah, and it's all about thedopamine at the end of the day
You're chasing a drug.
Yeah, well you're chasing theeffect of the drug, which is
dopamine.
All of these, drugs.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
All they do is release your own brain's
potential to give you more hitchof a drug.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
And it's one of my groups I was part of six years
ago when I was writing my book.
When I said, well, I prettymuch wrote it high.
And he said, and you're proudof that, and I'm like, I wrote
the fucking book.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, it's pretty good it started to.
Yeah, I mean, there's anaccomplishment there, because
when I hear someone who's onmeth and everyone here is
someone who's on meth youimmediately think of that guy on
cops or PD nation, right, theone that's living on the street.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Oh yeah, let's see now you go to that stereotype.
Yeah, this is a belief amongpeople.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
But I want to use a functioning.
I don't know if it would be ahigh functioning, no, no, I'm a
functioning.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I'm managing it, I'm a manager of it.
So is this a daily thing?
It depends.
After the accident, of course,I had one no desire and was
afraid of doing it.
So there was.
You know, it was only the lasttwo weeks that it sort of came
back.
Because of the accident?
No Well, partially because Ihave several triggers.
One of them, it's the obviousone boredom.

(17:50):
The other one is when I don'thave any energy and I know I
can't stop.
This is my achiever.
When I've got four client phonecalls I have to get ready for
and I just don't have the energy, out comes the pipe, you know,
and five puffs later, boom,energy.
I've gone into meetings.
I went into a meeting with IBMwhere I had to convince them to

(18:11):
pay their dues for theassociation.
Not a lot of money, $45,000.
But still they wanted me thereto argue with senior man, you
know, like 15 people in the room.
So I aced that meeting Becauseyou talked about ADD, with
crystal meth gone Really, oh mygod, the focus.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Oh, you're selling it to me.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
no, no no, but that's the problem with this, and this
is where there is no good orevil and there shouldn't be any
judgments about it, because,look, this is a bad example, but
Hitler was basically high oncrystal meth for the last five
years.
No, there's a book.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Is this definitive.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
It's a Kennedy.
They believe Kennedy was on.
I suppose it starts out as avitamin shot to give him energy
and feel vital.
And when that stops working sowell because your body gets
immune to it.
The document, hitler's document.
It's well documented.
Read the book BlitzkriegStarted lacing it with crystal
meth Because crystal meth was alegal drug in Germany until 1920
.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
So just about every drug was legal at one point.
Coke, Coca-Cola.
Everyone thinks that it was themain ingredient.
No, it wasn't.
Cocaine was a small ingredient,very small additive, and Coke
and say Coke, which is how itgot its name Ecstasy was
prescribed by psychologists forcouples and couple therapy.
PTSD and it works for that,someone who, myself, has done it

(19:29):
multiple times in my 20s.
Another coaching technique thatI employ is to maintain the
conversation through alignment.
Yeah, you're very happy Sharinga personal story of challenge
where something similar canenhance the openness of the
dialogue.
Yeah, right, and you loveeverybody, whoever is with you.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
You're in love with them Now.
Coke, I did a little bit in my20s and marijuana doesn't do a
thing for me, Alcohol doesn't.
I've got to stop drinking andsince I drink Goni socially, I
stopped drinking.
I haven't really had.
I've had maybe two cocktails amonth.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Alcohol is the worst substance you can put in your
body, because it's truly apoison.
Ethanol is a poison that killsall cells everywhere.
I read this study comparing itto opioids.
Heroin is bad for you, very bad.
Highly addictive like meth, butit doesn't destroy all of your
organs and cells like alcoholdoes.
Alcohol is the worst substance,followed by nicotine Right, and

(20:23):
then now I would say cocaine,Cocaine can give you a heart
attack.
Cocaine is the worst drug youcould possibly ever put in your
body.
As you age, Because itconstricts blood vessels in your
heart, you will potentiallysuccumb to a heart attack or
arrhythmias.
And now one small grain offentanyl which looks identical
to a grain of cocaine will kill.

(20:46):
You Will kill you if you've notdone it.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
And that's why so many people are dying.
I have my time on all strips athome.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
That doesn't work.
Everyone I know, so I meet alot of people with addictions.
That's part of what you do as acoach.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
You meet people.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, and I've tuned down a number of my clients'
addicts too, Of course, and I'mnot surprised by the amount of
functioning adults and parentsthat do a lot of drugs,
including cocaine, and I've meta lot of them and I'm shocked
every time, to the point wherenow I'm not shocked anymore.
So you're telling me thisdoesn't shock me in that sense.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's because the first thing I wanted to be when
I was a kid was an actor.
Ok, game men have learned tohide.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
To act, not anymore, but growing up in the 60s, 70s,
80s.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, we were hiding.
So here's something I learnedin the many attempts at recovery
from a psychiatrist who wasactually the person I would have
probably made the best try itwith.
He ended up at like 145thStreet I just couldn't get it
together, figure out thelogistics of going all the way
there from Brooklyn and then hereappeared at what's called

(21:49):
crystal light.
I think it was crystal free AtRoosevelt Hospital on 58th and
10th running.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Crystal light is a drink, so it's a powdery drink
that all of us can't percentileabout it plays.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
It's either crystal free or something like that,
anyways, and I was like, oh mygod, this is the guy that I
could probably could get me towhere I need to go.
They wouldn't take my insurance.
And the thing is there's achemical.
This is obviously chemistry.
They have now done tests.
We're using the Trek zone Ithink it's called that's what

(22:25):
Curtis used to get off hisdrinking, because then he said
alcohol takes a lot of drugs.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Replace one chemical with another.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, yeah, and then he didn't need it anymore.
It's like in baking.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
If you want to make something fat for you, add sugar
.
You have to replace somethingwhen you take something.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, although he's not, I mean, he doesn't need the
Naltrexon he needed it for twomonths and he got off Well you
teach your brain sidebar.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
When I was taking ADHD medicines as a child, I
felt that balloon medicine hadthe effect, but I was able to
sit and concentrate in schooland I learned what that was like
until I told my parents I don'twant to take this drug anymore.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
I now know what it's like to be normal, yeah, so the
study that's guys cited ispsychiatrist.
There was a study done of allsubstances you can get addicted
to alcohol, crystal meth,whatever, 20 substances,
whatever and they tested on twoaxiocies.
One is how much do you thinkpeople can tell you're high
versus how much people canactually see that you're?

Speaker 1 (23:19):
high Functioning alcoholics.
You don't know they're.
I had an employee who came upto me.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
He seemed totally normal but he was drunk until he
passed out at his desk and Ithink we're talking about the
general part, thousands ofrespondents, the substance that
people almost immediately cantell you've consumed.
But you kind of think they'retwo substances.
Do you know what they are what?
Alcohol and marijuana,Marijuana.
I can say 100% that I neverfelt high from marijuana Ever

(23:48):
Then.
I never.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
You haven't smoked enough, my friend.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
I don't really like it.
It doesn't really do it?

Speaker 1 (23:52):
No well, it's a depressed, but it literally
doesn't.
It's the antithesis of whatyou're chasing.
Yeah.
You're not looking for arelaxing feeling, you're looking
for an arousal, a spike.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
It depends.
Everybody's chemistry isdifferent.
This becomes very friendly andvery huggy, and that drives me
to the same place.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I just want to go take a nap, I want to watch a
movie, be able to take a nap.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Ecstasy did that for me.
Ecstasy did that for me Really.
It made me really into a role.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
But everybody's chemistry is different.
Ecstasy made me want to dancein a club, which I did.
I took it once my mom, by theway, is going to hate me after
this.
Why?
Because she's going to listento this and be like oh Darren, I
wish you told it.
No, it doesn't matter, I'llleave it up to you.
Every thing that you have donein your life has led you to the
person you are now, and if youlike the person you are now,
then you did right.
If you don't, then let's startmaking changes for the future

(24:35):
Right, and that's the problem.
So let's go back and talk aboutthat.
I want to just touch on onepoint.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
One thing with the study.
The last thing about the studythe one substance where you're
convinced everybody can tell andpeople really can't tell for
the most part is meth.
Really, I've run into friends,my dealers.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
So how many people are high on meth that I talk to
every day and I don't even know?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Probably not very many, because you're not in the
gay scene.
The gay scene is much, muchmore prevalent.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
All right.
So let me just talk about thispoint real quick, because you
had mentioned you have fentanyltest strips, and I want to make
this abundantly clear.
Now, nothing of what John and Iare saying should be
misconstrued from medical advice.
We are not medicalprofessionals, but we can have a
conversation.
But those fentanyl test stripswork if you catch fentanyl.
But if you're going into yourlittle baggy of coke with

(25:23):
fentanyl test strip thinkingthat you're going to find the
one grain of fentanyl that'sgoing to kill you, you're
hunting for a single grain ofordinary looking sand on a beach
.
Yeah right, don't think thatthat's going to save you.
You're either willing to take arisk or you're not.
But that strip is not doing athing for you.
Don't even waste your money.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, well, it's unopened, because I've been
doing this long enough to knowwhat good crystal and bad
crystal looks like.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
No, you don't.
This is where tough love comesinto play.
Following alignment, atechnique I use is to gradually
shift the focus towards theseriousness of the consequences
of one's actions.
After building trust throughoutthe conversation, you can
transition to assertive measuresthat are not only heard, but
also heated.

(26:07):
Because so did every singleperson who had a baggie of Coke
saying this looks like Cokebecause fentanyl looks like.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Because most crystals get delivered in crystals,
literally a crystal that you'vemade, no, okay, because I'm not
an expert on that.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
I've never personally tried crystal meth.
Oh, let me tell you.
But this is an interestingtopic, because I would never
have guessed that right.
You said a party drug.
I mean I even doubt it.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
That's totally normal .
First of all, I was a burningman 15 years ago.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Now I know yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
The friend of mine from Sony took me there.
So I've never been, you've gotto go and I've got this group of
friends and they were thewildest, craziest group of
people.
I was like, wow, wow, this isreally cool.
Last day, sunday is reallyquick right now.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
The lawnmower guys following us.
Can we move to another?
Yeah, we need to get goinganyhow.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
And the last day when everybody's packing up and
going.
They were boring shit, justsort of like accountant types,
and I thought, okay, what's thedifference?
Oh, they were high the wholetime.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athightokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor, discover books
along the trail, or to simplydrop us a line.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
You asked me what it's like to be on crystal meth,
so let me give you a littlestory about what it's like.
So everybody's chemistry isdifferent.
My chemistry, because I haveADD and because I come from a
very uptight world.
I know how to.
It loosens my uptightness butit doesn't wash away Uptight
world Okay.
Yeah, just conservativehousehold.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
So your family was not okay with you coming out.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
No, they were afraid of me having joint drugs.
That was the conversation.
I never about being gay, it wasalways like if you ever hear
your joint drugs you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
What year did you come out to your family?

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Freshman year in college.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
What year was that?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
1977.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
All right.
So we are in a time where beinggay is not okay, except in the
social circles, the smallcircles.
But as a general feeling andconsensus in America, that was
not okay.
It was not really no.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
So it says the media.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
So it says, okay, fair enough.
So it says the media, now youcome out, mother, father,
brother, right?
What was their reaction?

Speaker 2 (28:21):
My mother's reaction is I knew it, it's all your
father's fault, because yourfather was a terrible father and
that was her yet another spearshe could throw at my father.
Because when I was five, or six.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
They were married or not.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Oh yeah, they married the whole time because women
who grew up in the 40s went tocollege and then were said, no,
you're only gonna be a housewifeGot hamstrung.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Oh, that was Smart women.
The bunker days.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, and those were smart women who have no
opportunities and if they getdivorced, there's always the
possibility that the husbandwill not pay child support
alimony, which happened hersecond.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yes, well, there was a threat of where are you going
to go as a divorcee?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
with children and socially and socially what are
you gonna do socially?

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, socially, divorce was not as accepted as
it is today.
It wasn't the norm, in fact.
Now I believe divorce is thenorm.
It's at least 50%, might be.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
I think it was worse actually in the 80s.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I don't know Really, but anyways, I didn't know
anyone was divorced, but thatwas the depiction of the bunkers
, right, archie.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, but we were slightly, so the irony is the
bunkers were done in the 80s.
Actually no, it was the 70s, itwas the 70s, it was like the
75s or the 70s, but it continuedon into the 80s no, it must
have, but it was very much the70s mentality.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
But it was all about that bang-zoom mentality of men
control the family and the women, or play their role which is
not the case today.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, not at all.
So my mother's first reactionis it's all your father's fault.
You notice the word fault?
Yeah, fault, flame.
So my father was like he wouldlet a little Every now and then
something out.
I mean I knew he wasn't gay.
If anything he was hyper, Imean that was.
The problem was that he hadgirlfriends all over the place

(29:59):
constantly, and that's what mymother was angry about.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
But never truly confronted him because of the
times she always confronted him.
No, but in the sense wheretoday that happens, you're
getting divorced.
But back then it's like thefear of being a single person,
and my father, didn't want to bedivorced because he was a
corporate lawyer, a veryhigh-flying lawyer.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
He didn't want to have that stigma.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
That stigma of being the worst.
Or, quite frankly, as a lawyerhe knew what it would, what
would go through with that.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, and it gets facing.
Even now it's as we said womenhave a lot more power over their
husbands than I think peoplehave the credit for.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Listen.
As the father of threedaughters, I will say damn right
, as it should be.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Why they have one extra chromosome after all.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
They have an extra chromosome.
And there is the most powerfuldrug in the world and I don't
need to say it, but the mostpowerful drug in the world
that's been buckling menheterosexual men for eternity.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Morning Enos.
Yes, it is a power I've neverunderstood, but okay, you guys
do with it.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
But I can understand you don't understand.
Alright, so let's go back tothat.
You tell your family they'regay, so they ultimately accepted
you by probably not talkingabout it too much.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
No, no, no.
Actually my mother wanted totalk about it.
Oh, my gosh, you want to talkabout it.
You know Radcliffe educatedwoman biologist.
Oh, she wanted to talk about it.
Really, it was my father whodidn't want to talk.
Well, she was doing thehyper-rational, she was
rationalizing.
Well, you know, there is aplace for gay people because
we're overpopulated.
And let's face it, since youguys can't reproduce, we won't
reproduce.
It's God's way of Okay, talking, okay.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Listen, for that being your experience, I would
say that's not bad at all,because it could have been far,
far worse.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Oh yeah, and I, Especially in the 70s.
I've heard stories even,especially in the Latino
community which is a whole otherstory.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Oh, with the pride of a Latino father.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well, and the fact that most Latinos do have gay
sex, but don't cause that.
Okay, it's guys gettingtogether and having fun, which
in the 80s.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Kind of like the Greek bathhouses back in
Socrates' days.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
It's spectrum, it's spectrum.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, what we do now, know now from you know
sociology and anthropology isthis is not a new concept Men
have been doing what men dosince the beginning of man.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Well, it's a spectrum .

Speaker 1 (32:15):
The other thing I've heard Now if you can't tell, I
personally don't care, Never didhave, never will.
That's why I knew we were goingto talk about this.
It doesn't bother me.
I don't understand why itbothers people.
What you do is up to you and Idon't care whom I Well, and now
we scroll forward when it's comeout.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I've told my brothers and they're not to tell my
mother.
One of them's a blabbermouthand he's almost threatened once
or twice.
And last August I showed up inmy younger brother's house in
North Hampton, mass, high off mykite.
They just lit into me.
I mean just never, and this istoo.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
No one wants to see their baby boy.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, no, that's my younger brother.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
No, I know, but no mother and fine, no brother
wants to see their family memberhooked on any substance period.
And again, we don't stigmatizeZannex and Zoloft and all of
these other drugs the same waybecause it's written by
prescription by a doctor.
But the reality is is they areequally as bad and as addicting.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
And there you go.
You know your preconceivednotions of what a methhead is.
I do know one thing, though Ifyou've had addiction problems
earlier in your life, then I hada call yesterday, high off my
body, because I had two hours ofnothing to do and I didn't feel
like getting started on thenext marketing campaign.
And I had a call with a guy.
He's 27.
He was a substance abuser upuntil like 22.

(33:35):
And now he has a business abusiness helping the sons and
daughters of very wealthy peopleget over addiction, bad
behaviors, all this sort ofthing it takes one to know, one
I knew the minute, two minutesinto it I knew he could tell and
the conversation went reallyweird.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
So is this someone that you have told that you have
this?
No, no, no, no, no.
Well, you have now, becausethey're most likely listening to
this episode, but here's thething.
Well, depending on what we putinto the episode, well, this is
good stuff, this is staying inbecause we're going to full
circle this at the end, becausewe're going to help you if you
want help.
Well, this is where I'm at.
But admitting something isalways the first and most

(34:14):
critical step, and I'll take youback to the 70s, when you came
out to your family.
That was a huge weight off yourshoulders.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
It was because I had the support.
Back in college, ben Schatz wasthe ringleader in my year.
At Harvard he ended up beingClinton's head of his gay task
force whatever it was called.
So he was a big, very liberal,family super liberal.
He screened at me a couple ofyears ago about not supporting
Bernie Sanders.
I was like you must be out ofyour mind.
So he off the spectrum liberal.

(34:44):
So for him it's about beingtrue to yourself.
Coming out.
He got many guys and girls tocome out to their parents.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well, that helps.
A movement is when people ownit.
Again, admitting it, you'rebasically agreeing with me.
Admitting it, though, you had aweight on your shoulders and
even if you think you didn't,you had to do something.
You dreaded that conversationat first, because that's normal.
You cannot tell me that youwent in like hey you can't wait
to tell them.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Except for the group thing.
When I would come back to thegroup thing is I had a very
strong support group of gay men,sure, and I knew that if all
held both clues, I could get inthe car, get on the plane, get
on the phone with somebody.
I had the support basis ofsupport for getting over
addiction.
But I knew that worst casescenario.
I had a support group.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
But yes, you had a support group and, by the way I
said it, was bisexual, not gay.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Ok, either, holding out a little bit of hope.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
OK, you do you, but what I'm saying, though, is it
still would have crushed you.
There was still fear.
There was fear, uncertainty,doubt, intrepidation, turning
that handle or the knob orwhatever to walk into your house
.
There was still backed bysupport, groups or not, this is
your family.
There was a weight on yourshoulders that came off, so you

(36:03):
got.
You emptied that weight, thatpurse, so to say.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
And it turned out to not be so bad.
Now, had I been addicted, thenthat would have been much worse,
Because that was the thing inmy house and remember it was the
70s.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
That was bad.
Then all stereotypes come intoplay.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Well, and this, the fears go ratchet upwards.
Remember this was pre AIDS, soit was.
My mother's biggest fear isthat I would be a social outcast
.
Ok.
My response was yeah, but thiscountry club set in short hills
that you belong to is not thesocial.
I'm happy to be the outcast,yeah, yeah.
So it didn't really.

(36:42):
There was nothing they couldhave said that would have made
me reconsider.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
And they didn't say we know, no matter what
therapies your Bible camp sendsyou to Right, you're not
converting someone, yeah, unlessyou're brainwashing them, which
is exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, this is what I said to a client yesterday who's
got four partners.
Nobody's willing to step up andbe the CEO and all hell is
breaking loose because of that.
And I said and everybody saidhis name is Daniel, no, not that
Daniel, daniel.
He said you have all themakings.
Yes, you feel uncertain aboutit and you haven't really done

(37:16):
the leadership thing, but we'rehere to help you.
And I said but, daniel, youhave to want it.
Yes, if you don't want to beCEO, let's not push this too far
.
You got to want it.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Well, it's like that with everything.
So back to your addiction.
Unless you want to stop and notbe addicted and usually it
takes rock bottom for somebodyto say I'm done, that's what I
thought the accident would be.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I always said when I have a direct correlation no,
you can't plan rock bottom.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Rock Rock bottom is not a planned circumstance?

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Well, obviously it hasn't, because now I'm back.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yes, so let's define rock bottom.
Rock bottom is an accident, isI?

Speaker 2 (37:52):
almost overdosed.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Well, that's what I had.
No, I mean, I could have died,but you planned and said if I
get into an accident, that's myrock bottom.
That's not rock bottom, that'sa future that you're kicking the
can to.
You're giving yourself an out.
Rock bottom is I literally amwaking up in the hospital.
I'm almost dead.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
I've done that.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I did that once I haven't hit rock bottom yet, and
I don't Rock bottom is that'syour last move and then you're
dead.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
The problem with my type of personality and I've
thought about this for years isI will not allow myself to go
totally rock bottom.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Says everybody.
So I'm not that I don't believeyou or believe in you.
The power of drugs is fargreater than the willpower of
man.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
And denial is a huge part of it.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
And, as my father would say, that's a river in
Egypt.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
That's not just a river in Egypt.
So come back to what it feelslike.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
So I know my dad just laughed at that one in this
weird awkward scenario here.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
And he's definitely going to laugh at that.
What kind of people are youinterviewing?

Speaker 1 (38:58):
He's going to say my son's a jackass, straight this
way.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Okay, so you know better yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
So, so so unless you truly want to stop.
You are not stopping right andyou have to now plan to stop, so
I'm not here to tell you tostop.
I don't care what anybody does,as long as they are functioning
members of society.
Where I draw the line, I loseall respect for people that do
not function and provide tosociety.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
That's been one of the problems with recovery and
rehab and all this stuff is Iwalk into these rooms with a
bunch of gay men and I go Iwould never talk to you guys
otherwise, and then it's likethen it doesn't work.
And I had one group as part ofabout eight or nine years ago
that, first of all, there's adifference between groups and

(39:46):
organizations that want you toabstain, or the mission is to
get you to abstain, and thereare a lot of organizations that
say they're happy to learn howto manage it.
Yeah, don't believe them.
They don't.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there
are certain people that if youare addicted to something and
you know how to manage it whereyou are productive in society,
then stay addicted.
Because let's look at this-holistically.
You're going to die ofsomething and no, I am not
condoning a substance abuse, butwhat I'm also not condoning.
What I'm also not condoning isa life that is very lengthy and

(40:23):
miserable because you didn'texperience it, and hence
professionals over 50.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
For addiction, but it's for people who literally
think the rest of their life isgoing to be crap.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
If you are in a situation where you don't want
to live your life, then find thething that's going to help you
live your life.
And make sure you'refunctioning, yeah, and you're
productive and you manage it andyou're not harming others.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, now the problem with so getting back to the
experience of it.
Body chemistry plays a hugerole in how you, you know, as we
said in, a direction now thereare three or four different
kinds of Tina uses, if I can gofrom that way.
There's those who never had alot of prospects in life, maybe
from broken homes, just stupid.

(41:08):
I've met a lot of just stupidpeople yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Where they're not thinking about addiction
management.
They just need an escape from.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Pudet, and they just yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
That's, that's the cliche, the stereotypical method
.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
And the unfortunate thing again, everything has good
and bad.
You know, in fact, that wholething is not.
Some of these guys are reallyvery sweet and you really do
want to reach out and help them.
They're just wallowing in selfpity.
That's the first kind.
Then there's the second kind.
There are guys who can't manageit.
Literally they're an hour intoit and it's Dr Jekyll, mr Hyde,

(41:43):
Okay.
And they, like, are going toget the gun out and shoot you.
Or they said I never want tosee you get out of my apartment,
stop saying.
And then there's the, there'sthat, then there's the paranoid,
schizophrenic.
Get through these nine hundredexperience where they
immediately think you'restealing things.
Yeah.
Then there's me.
There are people like me whoand this is any, not just
Christmas who are functioningaddicts because their

(42:08):
fundamental, their upbringingwas fundamentally right.
Their parents, you know fromwhat it was it was a stable life
got to go to good college.
I understand the differencebetween behaving and not
behaving.
I don't always respect thedifference, but at least I
understand it.
I also understand that I don'twant to have a shitty life and
so I don't want to go there.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
So do you consider yourself an addict?
Just to you do yeah.
I can say myself.
So you are an addict.
You're addicted to the drug.
Some people are addicted tolove.
Right Whatever, right Tochewing gum.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Exactly Everyone's got some sort of addiction.
I had three heart attacksbecause he had an addiction and
he still eats right.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
So okay, so you, you have an addiction.
Now would you?
I think you would agree thatyou're functioning, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
But you make.
There was a moment this morningwhen I went.
Okay, I was a bit of a freshair walking.
Well, are you high now?
I was last night.
Takes three days for it to workitself out.
So I'm, I'm talking to youwhere, like in a medium, yeah,
probably, but I would say, youknow, I switch on my
professional.
As one of my members of mygroup says, I've got my public

(43:16):
persona and my behind the scenespersona.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
This is your suit.
This is the pursuit of thisshow.
This podcast is about the suit.
I like to be 50 50 in the suit.
Right, you show up.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
I'm interviewing you right now.
This is my interview Exactly,and I know how to put the suit
on Right, even if I'm high, andthere are times when things go
better when I'm high because I'mfocused on with it.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yes, so you've learned to master that.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Not only that, but I've also learned to harness
some of the actually not badstuff.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Okay, but the bad stuff, though, you have to
suppress, and the bad stuff hasto come out, and that comes out
in making poor decisions likedriving or saying something in a
group meeting where you go.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Oops, I shouldn't have said that.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Yeah, why did I say that?
Well, we all have foot andmouth syndrome every once in a
while.
Some of us on substance, isn't,some not?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
And it depends also on your brand.
My brand tends to be levelheaded, smart, not that I
necessarily want that as mybrand, but as my default was.
So when I say somethingoutlandish, the whole room sort
of shuts up and looks at me.
Now they're good times when Isay something, oh my God, that's
right, he's right.
But there are moments where Igo, okay, there's no mess got
better than me.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
So you're constantly fighting what you call it a
demon.
I wouldn't say fighting.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
No, no, okay, I said I am in my journey.
I would agree with what yousaid, which is, if you're not
miserable down and out, notliving the life you want, there
are times when I say this isactually pretty cool, okay so
because it's very liberating,it's very and it makes you feel

(44:50):
great.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
So I'm following you.
So my biggest fear is living avery aged life, 90 years old,
never having accomplishedanything, never went anywhere.
That's a hyper sugar.
Never trying a drug Right.
Never experiencing a partyRight.
Sitting on my sofa watchingWheel of Fortune on syndication
Right.
That's my biggest fear, that'smy biggest fear and I think

(45:13):
there is no more miserable lifethan that and that is something
I'm afraid of.
So when someone tells me thatthey do drugs, I think nothing
other than the fact are you inan endangerment to me and others
and those around you?
Because I listened to HowardStern a little while ago and he
brought up a good point.
He eats very healthy, right.
He works out constantly, right.

(45:35):
To listen to his parentsmoaning, complain about how much
pain they're in when his fatherwas alive and the fact his
father was deaf and blind.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
But when the medical technology was in the slightly
more of an extreme.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
It doesn't matter, though, those final days of not
experimenting and experiencinglife are going to be miserable
anyway.
Well, that's why.
So why are you?

Speaker 2 (45:54):
That's why I started this group, professionals over
50.
Part of it is trulyunderstanding yourself, so you
can say this is what I want.
And if it's sitting on a couchwatching TV and I think there
are quite a number of peopleperfectly happy doing that then
so be it, but then commityourself to it.
Yep, with the idea being thatmost of us are going to live to
be at least 90, that means wegot 30 40.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
And the other way is unfortunate.
There's too many people.
We need to not live that long.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Well, that's another episode yeah.
And that's the aging, yeah,just problem yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Which is, by the way, the take up resources.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
I think I might say this aging Agents is the one
discrimination that every singlehuman being at one point or
another with it, and they wouldnot have been discriminated Of
course Old people discriminateagainst old people, right, young
people, too.
Young people you.
Oh, he's too young for thisrole, yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
And that's, that's the excuse.
It's as we stated very early inthis we want to write people
off immediately.
You want to know immediately soyou don't waste time.
So, up to young, I don't wantto deal with you.
I almost did that to my wife.
Yeah, when I first met Christysitting on a bench in a park it
was a dog park actually I hadthe courage to strike up a
conversation with her, greatconversation, and then she told

(47:04):
me she was 21.
Well, I was 28.
Okay, I immediately in my brain.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Put her off, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Yeah, I was like, oh great, I'm with with this
beautiful girl, she'll belistening.
So I love you and it was thebest decision that you conquered
your fears.
No one believes me, but exceptme.
The first moment I spoke to her, I immediately said in my head
I'm marrying her, that's yeah.
And then a few moments latershe was like she's 21 and that's

(47:32):
was like oh great, there's that.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, I am open the door.
And then I opened the door andsaw Kodas.
I had heard her voice over thephone.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
You just know.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
And I opened the door and that was it.
That was it.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
I'm with with that, with Christy, it's just Barry
White the whole way.
So where were?

Speaker 2 (47:45):
we.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
So let's talk about Living with addiction Next, do
you?

Speaker 2 (47:51):
want to be sober, not as much as I probably.
Let's put it this way Do youhave a need, not enough, to
become?

Speaker 1 (47:56):
see.
Do you have a need to be sober?
The one that's actually.
I think that's how we shouldpivot all these addiction
conversations.
Do you have a need followedwith a desire?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
I think I'd like to do it differently.
Which is what do I see my lifebeing Okay Forward and what I
really am passionate about?
But we're in startup phase soit's not easy.
It's professionals over 50.
Because I just lived through,and multiple levels With the
addiction and everything else,of how hard it is To figure out

(48:26):
when you've got money in thebank, when you've had a career
and you know you've got 30 yearsahead of you Most likely, and
you don't want to become a couchpotato.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
People with addictions or without, because I
think you have a fantasticopportunity right now.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
I.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Again, you have surprised me.
You have surprised thelisteners.
You are highly functioning Withwhat?
If you asked people what aretheir you know Most extreme
drugs, number one would beheroin or fentanyl Now because
it's in the news.
Number two would be People MethAngel does any of those Right.
So you are highly functioningRight in that sense.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
So we have to remember Crystal meth was legal
for about 40 years, at least inGermany.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Regardless of legal or illegality.
You know a lot of drugs.
Look at mushrooms.
Those are becoming legalized.
But they were legal or pot.
Pot as well.
Not legal because pharmacycompanies can't make a product
out of it.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
That they could sell, and when you were taking your
ADD medicine, that was a form ofspeed.
Which is what I felt, and I didnot like it right and, by the
way, when I fell off the wagonabout a week ago, the first two
days I was just okay.
This is why you can't keepdoing this.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Just you.
You immediately hated yourselfUm.
You went there.
I hate, how I felt.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, I hate it that I had fallen back.
Yeah, I wouldn't say hatedmyself, I was disappointed
myself.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
I I you know I'm a full open book here.
I was Experimenting withcocaine back in my 20s Sorry,
mom, whatever and I justremember coming home from a Bar
or club, wherever we were.
It was early morning, maybelike 11 am, and I told my friend
I'm like the high is okay andfun, but this low, I'm never

(50:07):
doing this again.
Yeah, right, and so so I getthat feeling.
I could relate to the feelingthat you have, where you're just
in disbelief that you broughtyourself this low.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
So we're very similar in terms of the hyper achiever
and so forth.
When you accept the fact thatyou've had self-esteem issues
and actually gotten at one withit, which means also, you know,
the fine line I have to tread isRationalizing something that
should not be rationalizedversus accepting it because I'm

(50:40):
a human being and this is one ofthose fine lines I've accepted.
Fact and not in denial is that,you know, I have reasons to
have a little so steam.
My mother used to always say it.
Yeah.
I was younger, so that justreinforces it and that's what
drives me towards achievement.
But you can call it anaddiction to as long as I'm

(51:00):
Achieve getting to where I wantto go, even if I don't get there
, which is to have a greatpractice.
Have people who are learning mymethodology, which is what I'm
doing with professionals over 50.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
That's the name of the title this episode.
Oh, it's what meth the dology.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Oh, some of the names .
I won't go into the cedar side,but how about Queen?

Speaker 1 (51:27):
This is my show.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
I make the title so if I had, if I had to right now
tell you what my dream is forwhat I'm building is I'm gonna
build an alternative to the NBA.
What, yeah, for entrepreneurs?
That isn't based on theory, isbased on People getting together
, sharing stories, learning fromone another, being held
accountable and Dealing withwhatever demons are gonna get in

(51:51):
their way.
That's not an NBA program.
Okay and me programs are notstructured like that.
Nba gives you technical toolsand no life skills.
Maybe Harvard does a little bit, and then professionals over 50
is Is me being a goodentrepreneur.
The number of times people said, my god, what a great idea.
Why isn't somebody doing this?
Well, I am.
That's me saying I got it, Igot a concept, I got an idea and

(52:17):
it'd be great if I it becomessomething big.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
And that's it okay.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
So I think because and I don't want to just rub my
relationship with Curtis, whichis probably the one thing that
would drive you both Do you messtogether Interesting that's
part of the issue is he was?
He was addicted.
Yeah, he just a marijuana andI'll go at an alcohol.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
But no, but one he got, and does he judge you?

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Not in that way does he judge me.
No, he judges me up.
You know, you're bringingyourself down, You're bringing
yeah, why are you doing this?

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, why are you doing, but not enough to want
you to stop.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Oh yeah, are you kidding?
Oh, he does want you stuff.
Oh god, yeah, but he alsoYou'll appreciate this when
faced with the force of John,firth is gonna do it.
Whether you like it or not,you'll lose every time.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, all right, so you don't want to quit I?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
I've accepted the fact you've accepted.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
This is who you are not going to be possible.
And I'm I'm personally as anon-judging person in this
environment.
I'm okay with that.
As long as you are not harmingothers, you harm yourself.
That's a you think, yeah, yeah,you know what?
Who might to tell you what youshould do with?

Speaker 2 (53:27):
it this way I was convinced I had that accident,
that that was the whole pointand would teach me clearly.
But it didn't.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
But this is who you are and You've accepted who you
are.
And again, rather than beingthat 90-something, you're old,
without experiencing orexperimenting with life.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
You, you chose this route and that's okay, I chose
it, but I just you chose, youchose you made it, you make
every choice.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Nobody held a gun to your head and said smoke this
pipe right.
And if they did, then you couldeasily say I'm never doing that
again.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Here I am not listening to my own advice,
Exactly Well that's.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
We spoke about this earlier.
You need someone else to tellyou the advice you already know,
right?

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Exactly Okay, just not the way that one coach did
it exactly, so you don't by theway he.
He said if you ever fear, ifyou really go back on that
substance and I'm coaching you,that's it.
Yeah, and what I broke up with.
I said I have been high everyday for the last two months and
you Did it, told your word.
That's one of the problems I'mhaving here.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, so what I?
I think so you don't want tocome off of it.
This is how you've identifiedand that is okay.
I think you could have a reallygood opportunity With coaching
and consulting people who arealso highly functioning in
addiction in making sure thatthey don't go over the edge.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
It came out.
So what's interesting is, inthe last six we had the largest
company, who's part of myVistage Group was in Long Island
.
I won't mention who it is, buthe was the son of the founder
and had all the you know issuesthat son of a founder has.
Mm-hmm, he really didn't likebeing a CEO.
Yep felt he had to do it.

(54:58):
Now he's found a replacement sohe can move on.
And he came out and said hebroke his foot, bad, bad break,
about four months ago.
It was bed everything we do ourcoaching sessions for a while
over Zoom.
But he liked me to come out andsee him and I said, look,
you're important enough.
And I said, well, I'm happy tocome out and we're on Fire

(55:20):
Island, so that was an easything to go see.
And he was in the SavevilleRonconkamal area.
And so then we came face toface and then the truth, just
like now the truth came out.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
He was high as a kite on weed and I guess I love it
when people say, on weed, On theweed, on the wacky weed, no,
it's OK.
So he was like I know a lot offunctioning really functioning.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
So that was the first time I had a client who had
offered to tell me withoutreservation what the problem was
.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
But that's not.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
In other words, there's a lot more addiction out
there than either one of us.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
You shocked me when you said you were on meth.
If you told me you were highand you smoked pot earlier, I
would think nothing of it.
I know so many functioningpotheds, but it's the stigma of
that picture of what a methperson does, right, Then no
sleep for days of what thatperson would look like.
Now you completely have blownmy mind because you took that

(56:18):
stereotype away.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Broke it, which is again kind of.
Again, I'm not condoning thisbecause this is not something I
want.
This is why you and I aresimilar.
We sort of like doing that.
We sort of like sort ofstanding people's beliefs about
things long time.
As far as being a coach, youhave to do that.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Well, it's also part of the show.
It's supposed to push back.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
As I said, for the last couple of weeks I've just
assumed this was going to happen, so I'm prepared for the
conversation.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
I do with everything in life, so I'm very
appreciative of you sharing,because this is great.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
No, I like you.
There are very few people inthis world who I would do that
with.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, this is great, though, because you're going to
help a lot of listeners.
There are some listeners outthere that are in the same boat
as you, and whether or not it'swith the same substance or
something else, Well, my hourlytier.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, there you go, you can contact me.
No, we'll absolutely.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
I think that there is a need for that right as far as
I know, because I don't havesubstance addictions personally
right, my addiction is thesuccess I put into something I'm
working on.
Right now my addiction ishiking and playing the guitar.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
And I play these horribly.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
But I hike masterfully.
You're like my personal trainer, but I still love it.
So I would say that there issomething here, because from
what I know of addictioncounseling, they want you off of
the dependency.
And I don't think you should beoff of a dependency If you
don't want to.
I think you should manage thedependency.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
I think there is something's happening, because
I've been sort of tryingrecovery for about 10 years,
trying Well, because I haven'tsucceeded in failing, failing
recovery, failing, not tryingAll right, by the way, we have
to keep moving.
Ok To want to get something toeat.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
You've been failing at recovery, but I mean dare I
say, stop trying and stopfailing and just imagine yeah,
why endure failure?

Speaker 2 (58:04):
So change my belief system about it.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
But just make sure you are functioning and do not I
will say this unequivocally donot drive again.
Well hi.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
No I.
Because you are thenjeopardizing someone else's life
and I'm actually very afraid ofdriving period and if you drink
and drive.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Do not ever do that again.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to the audience
.
Oh no, no, do not.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
I do not respect anybody that is functioning on a
substance that will endangerother people.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
The biggest because I woke up just as the crash was
about to happen.
So I saw it all happen and myfirst thought was shit, I can't
see anybody in the other car.
Did I kill him?
Yeah, and I said, had I killedsomeone?

Speaker 1 (58:45):
You'd be in jail.
You would 100%.
You would be, well, not at thisvery moment.
You'd be out on bail.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Well, there would be a lawsuit.
There may still be a lawsuit.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
If you are in a vehicular manslaughter scenario
and you are deemed under asubstance you are.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
The minute it happened I hid everything in a
way that I knew the police wouldnever find Blood test the guy.
I was at the hospital.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
No, what I'm saying is, if you are to, if you
horrifically murder somebody,it's a manslaughter right, you
didn't set up to do it they areabsolutely doing a drug blood
draw on you and in that theywill uncover that you were on
something and there is aguarantee you are being brought

(59:28):
up on charges.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Yeah, no, I disagree.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
You don't need those charges right when you could
prevent the worst case scenariofrom happening.
So guess what?
Hop in a freaking Uber.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, no, exactly, thank God, it limits us.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
We have Uber people who do not drink and drive.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
We've got a loner now and we're not getting another
car.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Yeah, I have no respect for people that drink
and drive.
I will limit myself to two atmost and wait at least the full
two hours before I get in a car?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
No, absolutely, and it was my worst nightmare, which
is why I thought I had boughtthem out, but clearly I hadn't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Can you tell?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I have known people that have been that are no
longer with us because of drunkdrivers Right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
I have a strong feeling on that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
This is why my brother and his wife reacted the
way they did.
She lost a brother, gavebrother to Crystal Meth.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
And recently my kids go to a camp.
There was a drunk individual onLong Island that crashed into a
car and killed two fellowcampers that were nine and 15
years old.
Yeah, that should never happen.
And obviously the drunk driverwalked away and will hopefully
serve the rest of his life injail.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, that was the only thing I thought of for the
first minute or two is I don'tsee it in the car.
That's not a good sign.
It was just because it wastinted in the dust, but you
don't look like someone I wouldstereotype, so all right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
So you've taught us a lot of lessons here and again
I'm not judging, so just theonly thing I judge on is the
driving aspect.
So don't do that.
This is your last drive, andthat's it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
No, it's not a judgment.
You're saying it as a friend.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Well, as a friend, as a concerned citizen, because I
don't ever want to hear thesescenarios happen to people and
they're completely avoidable asa car, as I reach out.
Yeah, Now let me ask you this,because I ask you in every
episode do you believe you'resuccessful?
Because I start off all theseepisodes finding successful
people to talk about theirsuccess journey, to inspire

(01:01:26):
others.
I want to hear from you Do youbelieve that you are successful?

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
What does the?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
others say Well, of course, some say yes, some say
no, and then I wave my magicwand and my gavel and I deem you
.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
OK.
So two years ago, I would saynot on any level, but thanks to
the positive intelligence andall the other work I would say I
could be more successful, Icould be more happy.
But you know what this is meand at the end of the day, I've
had a pretty damn good lifecompared to the rest of humanity
.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
You enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
I enjoy it, but there's rarely.
It's only in those momentsduring COVID when I had them
drugs over near the car and Ihad one day where I literally
shut myself in the den forpretty much all day because
everything was just too blackand I just knew if I talked to
anybody.
If Curtis sees me, I just thatwas mad at me.

(01:02:20):
I was just like this is bad,bad withdrawal.
You're going really into fuckedup places in your head Just
like don't go anywhere.
But for the most part, likeright now, I'm very happy, and
not just because we had a goodconversation, but I feel decent
now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Oh it's therapeutic, it's therapeutic.
We're walking, we're talkingand you've thrown a weight off
your shoulders.
Again, it's a weight that willcome.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
You can put any extent you want to Right now
it's like I'm getting my carright now we're going to lunch
and afterwards I go oh my god, Ican't believe we're just doing
it.
That's OK, that'll be the firstone, but of course, my biggest
fear is is that going to changehow you and I interact.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
I think you are successful in pioneering certain
aspects of life and humanity.
You are successful as a gay manin the 70s and being strong and
I would say an inspiration tothose who you've told your story
to coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
You could also say I'm an entitled white man.
I could but.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
I would never say that, but you said it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So I'll go with it.
There's definitely that so youhave entitlement.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I would say that you've been a very successful
coach.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
I would say that you are unsuccessful at managing a
substance abuse.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
I would say I have a journey I'd still have to go
through.
I'm willing to take the journeyand I will agree with that.
I would say take the journey,yes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Had you not gotten into an accident and endangered
others and yourself.
I would say that maybe you'resuccessful in that, but I think
your story is inspirationalbecause it certainly bucks a lot
of stereotypes, but I think youcould do a lot in helping
people others that arefunctioning.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
We're going to see what happens.
Let's publish I mean let's doit and let's see what reaction
we get.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
I think it's going to be positive.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Actually at this point.
Because we love candor, we lovean open, honest story and we
love an underdog who's fightinga war internally, trying to get
someplace where they've got ademon, the journey.
There's seven kinds ofHollywood films.
One is the quest, one is thehero.
All of seats back to the samething.
Somebody who gets all odds goesout and still achieves

(01:04:20):
something.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
So where's your journey at?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Right now, hopefully in Jersey City, you get to meet.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
So his journey is a hamburger.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
No, I did say it, but let's go, because we only have
25 million grabs.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
So, john Furth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
So, oh yeah, this is the end of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
So where does the journey end?

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
The journey ends with me building a business that
often includes employees, whichI've been worried that will be
acquired.
That will be in the learningand development space.
However we want to define it,whether it's substance abuse or
whatever, that deals with prettymuch all ages, starting at
about the age 30.

(01:05:03):
And then, once you have that,then figuring out what is it
like when you're not living thatlifestyle and if it involves
addiction.
I have this vision that 10, 15years from now I will have
either handed over or sold it orsomething.
It will be a sizableorganization, at most maybe 50
people, but for learningdevelopment groups that's not a

(01:05:24):
bad size.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
So I think you should call this company managing
addiction the method.
I think you'd be verysuccessful out of that.
I know you would.
You are a good inspirationalcoach and mentor to many.
You've got demons, but we allhave to look at ourselves.
Because we all have demons andguess what?
By not medicating yourself.

(01:05:47):
If you are depressed and youare a parent, you have demons
too.
So there's demons on all ends.
It's the human condition.
John Furth, I thank you foryour extreme openness, your
candor, your honesty and yourpowerful story.
Thank you, you have certainlygiven me at least one of the top
most shocking moments, asstated.

(01:06:09):
So thank you so much for beingpart of, I took a hike.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Ok, all right.
Awesome, that was great.
Thank you.
I'm Furth.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Hey, John, it's Darren.
How are you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
I'm good.
How are you doing, John?

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Doing very well.
So it's been a few months sinceour hike.
Yeah two.
Yeah, and I was thinking aboutyou and I wanted to see if there
was any new changes in yourlife or really how you've been
since we last spoke.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Well, yeah, there's been a major change.
Now I can't remember thedetails or some of the details
of our last part of ourconversation, but I've gone
sober.
It worked.
Whoa, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yes, ok.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Yes, something I never thought I would say and
say with pleasure and happiness.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Well, that's amazing.
Obviously, when we had recordedthe episode and you had told me
about that, I was kind of at astate of shock, but I was doing
my best to be supportive at thesame time.
Yep, you definitely You're agreat.
Yeah, you definitely didsurprise me.
Essentially, I was notexpecting that, and when you had
asked what was the mostshocking thing, I guess to have

(01:07:27):
said I would never in a millionyears have guessed that you
would be the one that takes thecake, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
And I think I attributed that to the media, or
specifically to Breaking Bad,that portrayed Kina addicts and,
by the way, we'll talk a littlebit about what kind of
addiction I have, which issomething I've learned but a
Tina addict, if I can say itlike that, let's call it crystal
meth can be highly functional.

(01:07:55):
That's one of the things I'velearned on my journey.
But let's scroll back a second.
So when I saw you, I was stillin the wake of my accident, and
so I was still basically freakedout, even if I was controlling
myself, and I was very scared.
I was very scared because I hadstarted this program at a place

(01:08:16):
called Parallax Great shout outto Parallax because they
actually did what many othershaven't been able to do, and
there's one very specific reasonwhy.
So I had started, and at thatpoint I was pretty convinced
that it wasn't going to workwithout medication, and I was
right.
So finally, they got mymedication.

(01:08:36):
Oh, I got my medication fromthem I'm not sure why it took so
long and the next day I had nocravings.
It was something I never, ever,ever expected, really.
Yeah, well, I was afraid thatthe cravings might go.
My husband had taken thattrachsome, which is the
medication which is not FDAapproved for this therapeutic

(01:09:00):
use.
It's approved for actually Idon't know what it's approved
for but it's not approved yetfor treating addiction, although
it's been highly effective.
So my husband went cold turkeyon alcohol when he started
taking it and that's whathappened to me it was.
I can't tell you how amazing itwas.

(01:09:21):
And the FDA has not approved itas one of my new things that
I'm sort of pissed off about.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
So let's just sum this up how many weeks sober
have you been?

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Then now exactly four .

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
That is.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Eyes of tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
That is amazing.
I have to be honest, I didn'tknow what to expect after our
episode.
I wasn't exactly there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
I didn't either, I didn't either, so I do yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Do you think that the recording of the show or an
episode and you essentiallycoming out with your addiction
was either rock bottom or acatalyst for you to get sober?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
I would say that it was a cry of despair.
I trusted you a lot.
Also, you know, when you'rebeing recorded, you forget that
a lot of people may hear this.
I'm not.
What's interesting isafterwards, of course I was.
Hmm, maybe this wasn't such agreat idea, but then when I

(01:10:22):
became sober, I've actuallystarted telling people in.
The reactions have been mostlygood and I would say, even more
than being good.
A lot of them are like, yeah,okay, let's talk about something
more.
Like, yeah, okay.
So like everybody's gotaddiction.
And you know I don't getspecific, but I told a bunch of
my founding members of this newgroup I've started professionals

(01:10:44):
over 50, because I got into afight with one of them and I
just said look, you know, I justgot over an addiction.
My emotions are all over theplace and that was just to
settle it down.
I immediately wanted why I didthat, but I thought you know
what?
I'm not embarrassed by itanymore.
It's, it's and I understand whypeople, when they go sober,

(01:11:07):
talk about it a lot.
Because it is.
It is amazing.
It is amazing that not only didthe creating stopped, but I had
absolutely no, no grief, noremorse in the sense of like, oh
, that was so great, and when Ilove to do that again, it was
literally one day to the other.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
So I think the biggest challenge that we have
in life is we lie to ourselves,and it's what type of life.
We tell each other right In ourheads and when you own an issue
and you put it out there, italmost makes it real.
And once it makes it real, itmakes it acceptable for you to
start moving beyond it.
So, you know, I do think thatyou coming out on on this

(01:11:48):
recording, on the show helpedyou see the light, so to speak,
and it helped you get the changethat you desperately wanted
Right.
You did hit rock bottom, yougot in a car accident, you know,
and I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
the next two weeks, or the next two weeks, were not
very good.
I went down at severe dark hole.
It was really Labor Day was thebeginning of the switch, when
they promised me the medications.
But yeah, it was not over thatdark spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
It was pretty bad the next two weeks after we talked
and you seem to have made itthrough, and obviously it's only
been four weeks or a month.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
So you have a long road to recovery, especially
with such a powerful drug.
But I will say that I am proudto hear these first steps.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Thank you, no, I'm, it's been been, it's been
amazing.
It's I, the joy I feel now andfact that I feel grounded I
would say.
The other thing is, is Ianother shout out?
I have the most amazingtherapist.
Her name is Susan McGee.
I go to group four times week,which is which is good, but

(01:12:53):
Susan has been a godsend.
She is not, not judgmental, sheholds my hands, who things when
I, when it looks like thecravings might come back, it's,
it's I really have to say thankyou to parallax First.
I don't think I've cried when Isaid that, but I can't say

(01:13:13):
enough good things and it's notlike that person.
But they gave me what I neededand they're continuing doing
that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
That is great.
So my personal view is you arewho you are and you need to own
it.
You own your strengths you ownyour weaknesses and you own your
recovery.
So, john, my message to you isown your recovery, stay strong,
stay sober and do it foreveryone that cares about you
and that is listening to thisshow.
Thank you, thank you, john,thank you.

(01:13:42):
Thank you, Darren.
I will follow up within a fewweeks.
I want to hear the same message.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Okay, excellent.
So have a great day, and I willtalk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Be very well, my friend.
All right, you too.
Next time on.
I took a hike.
We immerse ourselves in naturealongside Filipino American
entrepreneur Pete Dario, theowner of Terrace Plant Shop.
Till next time, I'm Darren Mass.
Thanks for listening.

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John Furth - Highly Functioning Methodology

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}John Furth - Highly Functioning Methodology