January 16, 2024 • 45 mins
When was the last time you hit a trail, both metaphorically and literally, to discover the heart of entrepreneurship and the spirit of persistence? This episode, we trek alongside Nat Berman, CEO of Uncoached Corp, whose journey from a disenchanted recruiter to a dedicated entrepreneur is a testament to the grit required to forge a path of your own. Climb with us through his early days of blogging, where platforms like Blogspot were the testing grounds for his drive to create and succeed. Nat's candid reflections on the value of aligning business with personal values, and how overcoming technical setbacks can lead to unanticipated success, make for a narrative as engaging as any adventure.
Venture further into our conversation, and you'll uncover the significance of maintaining authenticity and integrity in a world where 'fake it till you make it' is too often the norm. Learn from Nat how genuine originality in messaging can carve out a distinctive space in a crowded market, and why walking the talk is crucial when your business involves advising others. We'll dissect the delicate art of distinguishing oneself amid the saturation of online content and ponder the true meaning of starting a business with integrity at its core. This segment is an expedition through the landscape of modern business practices, seeking the summit of authentic success.
Wrapping up our time with Nat, we share tales that interweave the personal with the professional, including the charm of unexpected encounters and the thrill of competition that pushes us to excel. Whether it's meeting a significant other in an offbeat setting or navigating the peaks and valleys of business rivalries, this episode is a celebration of the human experience. As our hiking week concludes, we emerge from the trails of Central Park stronger and more connected, having embraced the 'good pain' that comes from striving toward a common goal. So grab your earbuds, and prepare to be inspired by a journey that's about much more than just business — it's about the adventure of life itself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right.
So have you ever had a thingwhere you do the whole thing and
then you're like fuck, there'sno audio?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yes, I have had those heart skipping, oh shit moments
two times.
One time the audio did notrecord and I had to do a second
recording, second hike with theindividual.
But, it turned out it was abetter hike.
And it was a better audioexperience and we were both
better for it.
That happened on two episodesago Mark Friedman and he was a
(00:29):
second episode and the firsttime it happened I forgot to hit
the record button.
Oh yes, painful.
So, nat and Berman, are you OKwith being recorded on a podcast
?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I am OK with it.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
There goes that liability.
This is I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and Parktime WildernessPhilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors, wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.
In this episode, we follow aninspirational trail comprised of
(01:05):
momentous conversations withNat Berman, CEO of Uncoached
Corp and a phenomenalmotivational figure.
Our topics include startingwith integrity, building digital
real estate and pushing waybeyond the challenges that can
scare us away fromaccomplishment.
We traversed a very challengingand monumental trail when I
(01:27):
took a hike with Nat Berman.
There you go.
So, nat Berman, I sought afteryou to become a guest on
multiple occasions.
I don't know if you saw that Iwas leaving comments and you're
linked in let's take a hike.
I don't know if you saw that Idid.
(01:48):
Ok, I did, but you chose toignore me until I figured out
the one thing I was missing, andthis is an important sales
lesson Try, try, try and try.
I went to your LinkedIn profileand I booked a calendar request
with you because it was onthere.
And I got you to have to payattention to me, Because then
the next thing what did you do?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I looked at your profile and immediately accepted
.
So yeah, I mean it's funnybecause I just didn't.
I don't think I'd looked atyour profile.
If I had looked at your profilethe very first time you reached
out, I would have 100% acceptedand I just, for whatever reason
, didn't at that time.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So shit happens.
This is an important lesson insales.
You just got to keep trying,try until you hear the no and
then keep trying from there.
But the reason why I wanted tohike with you is you and I are
extremely similar.
We're both motivationallyinspired, inspirational, we have
our own styles.
We're prolific on LinkedIn.
(02:48):
I think LinkedIn is a fantasticmedium and we both have had
these great careers and like toteach others from those
experiences.
Yep, absolutely.
Why don't we take a step backand discover more about who Nat
Berman is and we can run fromthere?
Okay, what would you like toknow?
So why are we hiking today?
(03:11):
What got you to this pointtoday?
What was your original careerin?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I mean at a college, career-wise, I was a
recruiter by trade.
Actually, my very first job wasrecruiting in the
pharmaceutical industry and thenI quickly transitioned over to
New York City and I worked forsome firms there where
essentially I recruited likeinvestment bankers, traders,
(03:38):
equity sales, people that kindof stuff, and didn't love it.
And then it was financialservices didn't love it.
What didn't you love about it?
I was very sales oriented, so alot of cold calling.
Also, to be honest with you, Iwas around like a lot of money,
(03:58):
super successful people, so Igot a chance to really see that
world without actually being inthat world.
Okay, and that just wasn'treally for me.
So the one thing I learnedquite well is that one thing I
never wanted to do was ever workfor anyone or have a boss that
(04:19):
kind of thing, so it was alwaysin your vision, to be your own
boss.
Yeah, that was alwaysconsistent.
But, knowing that I couldn'tnecessarily do that right away,
what I?
I think I had four differentrecruiting jobs and each one one
thing got, always got better.
It was either the commute orwho I was working with, that
kind of thing.
I went from a almost three hourround trip at the start of my
(04:43):
career to eventually walking 15minutes to my job and having two
bosses who were incredible, wow, okay.
So that was one really greatkind of lesson that I learned
was that like hey, even withinthe structure of something that
I didn't particularly love, Icould at least work my way
towards a situation that was notbad.
(05:05):
So, anyway, it was actuallyalmost like I wouldn't use the
word karma, but financial crisiswas sort of hitting 2007, 2008.
And in 2007, a buddy of mineemailed me this blogging
platform on Google, which youprobably know Blogspot Yep is
that still around.
(05:25):
I was just gonna say I think itis, but certainly not prevalent
anymore.
Yeah, it's become a littledated.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, although blogging is not, but it's more
often to blogging.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, that word used to be like taboo, yes, and I
think it's definitely not asmuch these days, but anyways, he
sent me this link to Blogspotand I was like what the hell is
this?
And I kind of got hooked.
Truth be told, I started awebsite right when I got out of
college on Yahoo GeoCities,which dates me even further.
Oh, wow, I had that site forlike I don't know a couple of
(05:59):
months and, amazingly, I likebasketball.
My first article was how Ithought Kobe Bryant wasn't gonna
be good in the NBA.
Yeah, one of my worstpredictions ever, yeah.
So anyway, yeah, it wasn'tuntil seven or eight years later
that my friend sent me thislink and I kind of just got
obsessed and I started a couplesites.
They were okay.
(06:20):
I started learning how tomonetize and make money from
them and then I had this idea tostart something called
Uncoached, which was a sort ofright at the time.
I started Uncoached, I thinkBarstool Sports came out about
two months later.
So when people asked me, oh,what was the site you started, I
was it's kind of like that.
It was like a guy's site.
(06:41):
You know, entertainment, sports, comedy, girls.
Oh, like, very much like aMaxim, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Which, by the way, the best magazine ever in my
college days.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I totally agree.
So things kind of picked upwhen you know it's funny.
You mentioned Try, Try again.
One of the things I did on mywebsite was I reached out to
Sports Illustrated every day forprobably six months, Okay,
Before one of their editorsfinally linked to one of my
articles and that kind of gotthe process really moving, of
(07:15):
the site growing and gettingsome traction.
So they mentioned you or theybacklinked to it.
They linked to an article thatI wrote that had a feel great,
it was pretty awesome.
And then all of a sudden it'slike CNN and you know it was
getting picked up by variousoutlets.
What was the article about?
I don't remember the one thatgot linked to in Sports
Illustrated.
I did a lot of sports stuff,Okay, so no, but it became a
(07:38):
regular thing.
So his name is Jimmy Something.
He still runs it to this day.
It's called Extra Mustard andit's this section where they
Jimmy Trayna and they only allthey do is basically link out to
like stuff they like.
Okay, Anyway, that picked up.
You know, long story short, Iended up growing like a larger
(08:01):
sort of portfolio of sites andeventually I moved away from
that model to the moreentertainment stuff, to more
like niche oriented stuff, sosites around finance and real
estate and home and garden andpets.
You know I have like a dog side, a cat side, a parrot side.
Wow, all right so you reallyspread the tension about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really went.
(08:21):
So today I actually still ownthose sites there's about 25 of
them and now, thankfully,they're very, very passive.
I spend about I don't know 20minutes a day on them and the
rest I have a company thatmanages them.
So, okay, they generate revenue, yeah, perfect.
And so essentially I kind oflook at that as, like you know,
(08:42):
I use the word digital realestate.
You know it doesn't mean youknow fantasy worlds.
In the metaverse, it meansliterally owning a property
making money from advertising,pseudo, passively off of Google
traffic.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So what we do know is passive income is your goal.
Anyone should aspire to havepassive income, whether it is
real estate, which arguably willbe very challenged very soon,
yeah.
Or, in your case, your example,digital real estate.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I love that term.
Yeah, I mean technically.
Right now, you know I'm at apoint where I could live off my
I guess investments or.
But the only thing I wouldcaveat that with is that you're
at the whim of Google's updates.
Yes, especially with thosekinds of properties.
So that could take a bathtomorrow, and it already has in
(09:36):
many ways for a lot of sites inthe industry.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, you brought up a good point you could live off
of.
You know the revenue, theincome.
But here's the challenge At anymoment your passive income can
deplete Yep, and you can depletefrom any.
You know any server service,google.
You know any algorithm changecan greatly affect your income.
(10:00):
Yeah, you have to have thementality that you can't stop
working.
I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That's a lesson that I learned, yep, and I know it
today.
I know it today, like LinkedIn,that's my new medium right, so
you can change your algorithm,which they have literally in the
last week, and they will againand oh, maybe that's the reason
why I'm starting to get sometraction.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's just you are at the whim of you know you're
really renting space to buildyour own platform, identity,
whatever you want to call it,and they can take that away from
you with the snap of the finger.
And I'm of the standpoint ofyou really don't have a right to
whine about it.
It's not your platform.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You either adjust or adapt or you're in deep shit, I
think there's a good, stronglesson in this Is if you get
complacent, you will fallbackwards.
Yep, complacency killscompanies.
Right, the business ownerthat's seen so much success.
He decides to work from homeevery day, literally going on
lunches and golf and vacationsright, the business starts
(11:05):
falling apart.
That leader has taken abackseat.
The investor that just sitsback and lets the market take
its course.
Well, sometimes you got youreye off the road and you go off
the road, yep.
So you have to keep hustling,keep driving.
In your LinkedIn example, thatis a prime example.
(11:26):
You could have every post dowell and all of a sudden an
algorithm change and if you'renot continuing to work and drive
and meet the requirements toget yourself out there, you're
gonna fall behind, yep.
But I did notice that in thisyear I made a concerted effort
to post every day, right andright and right.
(11:46):
For me it was therapy, and alot of them don't go anywhere
and it takes hours.
I think you know how long ittakes to write a good post and
in the last week all of a suddensomething happened where my
posts have been doing well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Well, it could very well be the algorithm, but it's
also the algorithm sort ofrewarding.
There's a lot of big creatorsfrom a few years ago.
Everybody calls them like OG orwhatever, and it's so overused.
It's awful.
Like what the hell is an OGright now?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Biggie, smalls, that's an OG.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Exactly, it deserves the money.
90s rappers or 80s rappers orOGs.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Two-Tuck yeah Del Biv De.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Vaux, but a lot of these folks, and I've been
having a lot of theseconversations lately because
sometimes people ask they'relike, oh, how do you get all
this engagement?
How do you do this?
And the reality is a number ofyears ago you could post
anything and you'd get a ton of,because the platform was
pushing all your stuff, nomatter what it was, no matter
(12:47):
how good it was or bad it was.
So nobody was really testinganything and seeing what worked,
they just posted.
So a lot of those people whopicked up these humongous
followings where do you want togo here?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Go left.
Ok, by the way, how amazing isthis trail.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So we're capping the week of straight hiking off with
you, a great guest as well asthe best trail for scenery.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, this is incredible.
So a lot of these folks thatpicked up these massive
audiences, I hate to say it, butthey're really salty right now.
They're just pissed becausethey're posting the same crap,
and I will say crap.
I'm not afraid to admit thatthese one line do this every day
(13:34):
at 5 AM crap, and it's likeyou're wondering why it's not
getting picked up by the feedand you're wondering why
nobody's engaging.
It's like, well, becauseLinkedIn has figured things out.
They're like, OK, well, we'regoing to give people what they
really want to read at thispoint, which is not platitudes
and not garbage.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, well, we don't have to name names, but there
are a few individuals that I dofollow.
I follow people who haveinspirational messages or tell
the story the same as everyoneelse, but in a unique way, right
?
So what do I mean by that?
The early bird catches the worm.
Well, ben Franklin said that,but he definitely heard
something like that from someoneelse.
And now it's the person whowakes up early, as Exhibit says,
(14:17):
the first one o'clock in thelast to leave.
There's different ways ofsaying the same message.
Nobody is writing a businessbook that is going to be so
different than anything elsethat's ever been told Exactly,
but they will say it in adifferent message, and if the
reader aligns with that, thenfantastic.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, and I had this conversation on another podcast
recently which the host told meshe said you talk about things
in a very different way thanother people.
And she didn't say you talkabout different things.
She said things in a differentway and there's a huge
(14:56):
distinction there.
It's like look, I'm not tryingto reinvent the wheel, look, I'm
a coach.
Right, I do motivational things, I do tactical things.
None of it's new, none of it.
But the way in which you talkabout it and explain it and use
examples, that is where thewhole for lack of a better word
(15:20):
authenticity really, really isimportant and makes a difference
.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Where it resonates.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, and so for me it was video and t-shirts, right
, like that kind of started thewhole thing.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I do love your t-shirt and I will say what
captivated my attention notcaptured, but captivated was the
fact that you are totally openand transparent.
You basically say that you're aguy who gives inspirational
wisdom while at your pool.
Yes, and I love that becauseit's unique, it is on brand and
(15:54):
it's a little comical in a way.
Right, by doing that, you'rebasically portraying the life
that you want someone else canachieve, right, so that makes
you, in a way, an authorityfigure.
Oh, it's a guy.
Yeah, I mean, that's For me atleast.
I do this stuff while hiking.
This is my pool, yeah exactly,and I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I mean that's the best compliment you can get.
Yeah, I don't know if I'd go asfar as to say I'm an authority,
but I definitely agree thatI've carved something out that
people listen to and, in termsof the one thing that I, at
least think is really importantto do which not enough people do
(16:35):
these days is practice what youpreach, walk the walk, all that
kind of stuff.
I think an amen is appropriatefor that one, and it's only
going to get worse.
As far as you know, I'll alwayssay this you have every right
to be a coach when you're 22,.
Right, you do.
You have every right.
You can go out there and pitchyour services and put out
(16:58):
content every single day foryears.
But the reality is, if you'regoing to be a coach on business
building and you haven't built abusiness, come on.
Like you know what I mean, comeon.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So we see that with everything right Now.
I'm a big believer in fake it.
So you make it, but within thegeneral context, yeah, right.
So what do I mean by that?
If you're running a $1 millionbusiness and you keep losing
client opportunities orprospects because they wanted a
bigger business, then act like a$10 million business Inact
(17:35):
processes, procedures, trainings, invest in your people like a
$10 million business would Fakeit till you make it.
And guess what?
You will get there?
Yeah, Faster than you think.
But I'm not saying to look atyour first resume and say you
worked for Northrop Grumman asthe director of operations.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
If you haven't done that.
Here's a great example of fakeit so you make it and you're
absolutely right.
But perfect example is likethere's a lot of people who use
the word power of no, thatphrase, you know Saying no to
people.
If you have the balls to say noto someone and you're just
starting your business, that'sfaking it till you make it.
In a weird kind of way it's notliterally faking it, but it's
(18:17):
like you're essentially actinghow all the big boys do, which
is saying no to something thatdoesn't fit your business or
whatever it is, and you'restarting from that place of
integrity right away.
I kind of look at fake it tillyou make it as that's kind of an
example of that, where you'renot actually faking it but you
are emulating what some of thereally successful companies have
(18:42):
already done.
And when you come from a placelike that, the phrase fake it
till you make it, I think, comestrue, because if you do that
long enough, eventually it willbe in your favor.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I love what you just said.
Start with integrity.
I think that should be thefirst line of any business plan
Integrity, because that's whatsets great businesses apart with
the integrity, and integritycan be defined in your business
integrity, your ethicalintegrity, your cultural
integrity.
(19:14):
But integrity in the businessis the consistency that you
would need.
And if you have a customer,let's say you're in the service
industry for refrigerator repairand your potential client says,
can you design a website for me?
You better not say yes.
And it does happen wheresometimes you do whatever that
(19:34):
customer wants.
I have some caveats with that,but sometimes that's a good
thing, but in this case probablynot.
Have some business integrity.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, I'm with you there.
Like it's interesting, becausewhen you're on social media
there's nowhere you can hidefrom vitriol and people saying
bad things.
And over the years I justliterally laughed that crap off
and I'm like thanks for theengagement.
(20:04):
You know what I mean.
And it's just like, oh my god,can I high five you on that one.
Sorry, that was a low five.
That was a low but theycouldn't see it.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You had to mention it .
So now it looks like we did anerd five.
I love that you said that.
So I see this all the time andthis is a lesson in investing
the right emotions.
If someone says somethingnegative to you, it's like
hearing a no in business Justpush past it, ignore it, use it
as fuel and, in the case ofsocial media, I don't know if
(20:36):
it's done on purpose by somepeople, but when they say a
negative remark, it brings themattention.
It might not be good attention,but that might be the attention
they want.
But if you engage it properlywith kindness, you can keep that
commenting stream going forwardand it just boosts you.
It boosts your stuff.
I posted something the otherday and someone said it was a
nice humble brag, and I politelysaid I think you might be
(21:01):
missing the point of this.
I'm not bragging in any way,shape or form.
Notice how my thread is talkingabout the negatives of my first
statement.
Right, the first statement isit's written for shock yes, and
then the rest of it is called ahook yes, that's how writing
style is made.
So, anyway, they went back andforth to your first statement,
bragg.
Your second state, humbleHumble.
(21:21):
So we went back and forth, andthe entire time I was like
listen, I wish you the best.
I will celebrate your successwhen you post about it.
And that's when it stopped.
But, yeah, negative engagement,please keep it up.
So how do you ultimately dealwith it, though?
Has anything that has been saidnegatively gotten to you, or is
this a learned behavior?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, no it's a good question because I was actually
getting to something along thoselines, which is very, very few
things will affect me where I'llthink about it for more than a
second, but there is one type ofpost or type of comment that
will elicit a reaction.
So for anybody out there whoreally wants to piss me off,
just do this.
It's when someone actually doesquestion my integrity.
(22:01):
So if I see a statement where,like, I've had posts go up
before where I've had a prettystrong hook that says something
that's eye inducing, that ismeant to do that.
But one thing I will say isevery single hook I've ever
written A is true, in whateverway you want to interpret it,
(22:26):
and B, I'll always follow it upin the post, in the body.
So, but this one time I wrote Ihave had a 100% success rate
with clients.
Okay, that is a hook.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I want to read how the hell is that possible?
How is that possible?
Either full of shit, but I wantto read more Exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Or this is true and I want to learn more, and that's
so your response that you justsaid right now, you're the guy
I'm writing to think about that,right, like you're the person
I'm writing to because you'resmart to recognize that, hey, he
did something like that, andeither he's going to prove it or
this post is full of shit.
Yep, right.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So but, by the way, if it is full of shit, I'm
hopeful that deep in your body Iknow what you did.
I appreciate what you did toget me read and there's a
learning lesson in there that Icould take away.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yes and B.
You know I have to own up to iton my part.
So what happened from there wassomebody who was actually a
pretty big person on theplatform out to me and said look
, they said it's somewhatpeacefully, but I don't know,
it's debatable.
They basically said like youknow, I'm having a hard time,
you know, believing that acouple of people reached out to
(23:35):
me and they pointed out thispost that you made to me and I
had to have to reach out to youand he had the respect of doing
it like in the DMs, nothing inthe public.
So that was cool.
I think it was a good place.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And he's like it's still be a selfish thought, but
okay.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And he goes there is no possible way you've done that
.
There's only one coach in thehistory of coaching who's had
100% success rate, and here'shis name.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Is this like a?
Nancy Pelosi is the bestfinancial advisor in the world?
Scenario.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
No, no, no, no, no.
But I explained it.
I said look, every person I'veever worked with has had a
positive outcome from what we'vedone.
I can't speak to whether or notit's the exact result they
wanted, but in you know, in myeyes I've helped out 100% of the
people I've worked with.
I stand by that statement, but,you know, if I look back, I
(24:26):
take ownership over the factthat I can't decide whether or
not that 100% is agreed upon bythose people.
You know what I mean.
Like I know that I've helpedthem all and let's let them pass
.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I don't want them to die.
Sure, bro, like a towel,nature's towel, some dried
leaves, yeah right, or asleep.
So I see where you're goingwith us, but you, I believe you,
by the way you have helped 100%of the people.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And, by the way, I talked to a lot of, because this
, this comment and conversationwe got into it went a lot
further than that and weactually got on the phone, which
I don't really want to get intoall of it.
But I had a conversation with alot of people about this and I
was kind of torn like, like youknow, is he right?
Or like you know what's goingon here?
I know I've reflected, I didand, pardon me, I felt bad
(25:18):
because when we were actually onthe phone conversation, I
literally and this goes back tofive minutes ago, this is why I
brought it up I said look, man,you're questioning my integrity
and that really, really pissesme off.
Like I was very, very annoyedbecause he was basically saying
you're not who you say you areand when someone says that, then
I will come back and I will saysomething.
(25:38):
But I even called the guy back,I even called him back, I even
emailed him back and I said,look, I apologize for being
abrasive, whatever you know, youmake a good point and we kind
of left it at that andeverything's fine and I'm
calling you a phony.
But in a sense that's what Iread out of it and if his
interpretation is different thanwonderful.
(25:58):
But if I think I'm being calleda phony, then yes, I'm going to
react that way and I willcontinue to react that way
forever.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Well, I certainly commend you for reacting that
way, right, because you putsomething out there Again.
It's a lot of work to curatethese stories in a way that's
understandable by an audience,and they do come from the heart,
and when I read your posts andseveral others, I could tell
(26:27):
they're coming from the heart,they're coming from a good place
.
I don't think I questionintegrity if I followed you and
I believe you.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right and you know what.
Again, to this person's creditor to their personality,
whatever, I don't think this issomeone that was following me
for a particularly long time oreven saw a lot of my content, so
I'm just telling you it's ashow that you can think it in.
Anyways, stay made here.
I am saying like I kind ofdon't even blame the person for
saying that, because that's theonly thing they saw of me, but
(26:55):
still pisses me off.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I'm still going to react.
There's a lesson in that Beforeyou leap, we should look, as
has been famously stated, andsometimes people like to post
negative leap because it drawstheir own attention, and that's
if you look through their feed.
I challenge you to do thisactually Then that's next
negative post you get.
Go look at all of the historyof that person's post and see if
(27:18):
this is what they do for aliving Because it draws
attention, right.
And if it's just a one-timepost, then my recommendation to
anybody TikTok, instagram,facebook, whatever post as
negatively as you want, itdoesn't matter, I don't care.
But when it comes to LinkedIn,that's a professional business
networking platform.
(27:38):
Why would you ever want anegative comment to come out of
your personal persona Ever?
If you're applying for a job,they're looking at your LinkedIn
profile and if they see thatyou're a negative poster, are
they going to want to hire you?
So negative posting on LinkedIndon't do it, unless that's your
shtick.
If that's your thing you'redrawing attention and that's
(28:00):
what you want to be known forsure.
But if you're an employee,someone you recently had on your
podcasts is like that.
Maybe you shall not mentionnames.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
No, I'm going to mention.
In pause.
I'm calling you out, posner.
You're Mr Negative.
Well, here's how we're going tosolve this battle, are you?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
ready.
We're going to have a hikerversus hiker showdown.
We're going to mic both of youup and you're going to shtick
talk each other until the lastman survives.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I hope he's listening to this and he's smiling right
now because he and I are verycool with each other and like
each other, and that's just partof our thing is rousing each
other.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
But so you are actually hitting on another
really important note forsuccess Competition.
Competition is awesome If youuse it the right way.
If you're angry aboutcompetition, you are going to be
blinded by rage.
That is not a good fuel source.
But if you have a friendlycompetition, if you are friends
with your competitors, use them,work with them, have them, try
(28:52):
to one up you, you, one up them.
It will help you grow yourbusiness.
It will also help educate yourprospective customers.
Competition is awesome,celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, and along the exact same lines.
Look, I'm a coach.
Two of my clients are coaches.
That says something.
And they also go after theexact same people that I do.
That's right.
So are they competitors?
Yes, but here's the reality.
The reality is that noteveryone is for everyone Sure,
and so if I'm going to helpsomeone grow their business and
help them target the same peoplethat I target, I'm totally cool
(29:22):
with that, because their style,who they are, is going to
resonate with someone else,probably a little bit better
than me and, in some cases, notas good as me, and they'll get
that person as a client and I'llget the other person as a
client, and the world goes round.
So it's like it's not.
So what would be your?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
advice.
By the way, we are walking up astream bed, yeah, and if we do
get a torrential downpour, youand I are going to be flushed
away.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I think we're safe today.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And we're off the beaten path, off the trail which
I love.
I didn't even know that.
Oh yeah, this is your.
Yeah, this is my domain.
You know this, but let me getyour advice.
What are the three mostimportant attributes that
someone could look into whenselecting the right coach?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Very good question.
So the first one is essentiallydo your research Right.
I mean, you see somebody'sprofile, it looks okay.
You see, you know some of thethings about them, the
appearance is great.
But you really want to kind ofdo your research as much as you
can, whether that's a referencecheck or asking them very, very
specific qualifying questions.
(30:22):
That's probably the first thingI'd look for.
The second one, which is reallyimportant, is are they who they
say they are, which is very youknow.
It's basically an extension ofthe first one.
And if they are and they meetall those criteria, then the
very last one is you know, doyou get along with them, do you
mesh with them?
Are there, is it someone youthink you'd be comfortable with,
that you'd want to work with,that you'd be happy confiding
(30:43):
with?
So obviously the two of youhave to gel and you got to kind
of go on your gut on there.
So that's the three I wouldrecommend.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Matt Berman.
Words of Wisdom.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Let me flip the script on you.
If you could have one guest onyour hike, you could hike with
one person, who would be RichardBranson.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You didn't hesitate at all.
There I've got a list ofthoughts that run through my
head in a stream ofconsciousness that I cannot turn
off at any point.
And Richard Branson, to me, isthe most successful human that
has ever walked the face of theearth.
He is extremely dyslexic.
His education was limited, hewas dismissed, he was troubled,
(31:25):
yet he had the chutzpah.
The chutzpah.
Anybody that told him he can't.
He ignored and used that asfuel.
And look at him today livinghis best life, well-balanced
life, with the most importantkey attribute with the help of
others.
And he is a cultural leader, acultural icon and an inspiration
(31:46):
to many.
It's awe-inspiring and I wouldlove to get him on the show.
Look at his view the foliage.
I'd say this was a hike.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Nat, as long as you admit it was a hike, because
you're like, experienced at thisshit, nat took a hike.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I'm sweating my balls off.
I'm slightly missed it.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, I could sit here for a little bit.
This is awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athightokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor or to simply drop
us a line.
All right, where did the trailgo?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
It was over here somewhere and we're slightly
above it.
I think I really wish I wouldhave like a.
I met my wife on a hike kind ofstory, but I don't.
I'm always jealous of peoplewho have those stories Like,
yeah, actually I was on a hikeand she kind of met her and
what's that.
I was just saying how it wouldbe like it'd be cool if I had a.
I met my wife on a hike story.
(32:46):
Oh, even though I met her on afucking shady day, I actually
have one of those.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Do you really?
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Every time I tell the storywhich is 100% factual and true
one, I get the I don't believeyou at first, and then, when you
know, I validate it withpictures and stuff like that,
and everyone's like, wow, you'relike the last person to have
met in person.
So I was just started thecompany.
It was three months old, it wasJune 28th of 2008.
(33:12):
And I decided to take the dayoff early because I had no
customers, no business, and Iwas bored.
That happens.
So I went to the dog park withmy dog, dexter.
I was, I was in Madison Squaredog park.
All right, I'm trying to keepmy.
Long Island accent away to theleft Dog, dog, dog, dog, dog,
(33:34):
dog, whatever.
Wait, what's your Long Island?
I'm from Nassau County, fromNorth Balmore, I'm poor
Washington.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, that's why we get along.
Yeah, possibly.
So I was in the dog park and Igot there around 2pm and I
normally would get there fromfive and leave no later than 5
30, because that's when the rushcame in and for some reason,
you know, beautiful day, I justsaid, you know I might as well
(33:56):
stay, stayed till five.
I'm a normal time getting there, stayed till 5 30, my normal
time leaving.
Music started playing in thebackground, there was a band on
this makeshift stage in the parkand I stayed and it's later
later, about 6 30 rolls around.
So all of this isuncharacteristic, out of my
normal routine and I am acreature of routine and in pop I
(34:18):
wouldn't have guessed that.
Yeah, I am, and in popped thisthe love of my life, beautiful
woman.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I got to go see about a girl.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, yep my wife well at that time, my nothing.
Yep.
Christy walks in.
There's a whole set of benches.
It's a huge park for New YorkCity.
In the dog park she sits nextto me and then she screams for
her dog.
She goes Peepo, come here.
I thought she said beatbox.
(34:47):
Now, I was not the mostcourageous person when it came
to women, but instantly, withouthesitation, I said to her did
you name your dog beatbox?
That's such a cool name.
And then she corrected me andthat was it.
From there we had aconversation and within 15
minutes of the conversation, thevoice in my head said I'm
marrying her.
Oh, that's the park people.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
That's the park.
No one believes.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, but I will tell you it is 100% true.
That was the voice in my head.
The reason why it is true is itwasn't a love at first sight,
infatuation sense.
I've had lots of love at firstsights in my life, lots of
girlfriends, right, I was 28.
I just started the business.
I did not want a girlfriend,but what I was telling myself is
take this one seriously.
Yep, and that was it.
(35:30):
And now we're married.
Nice, so, yes, we met in reallife.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I had a similar feeling about my wife where it
was like, yes, I thought she wasattractive when we first met
and all that kind of stuff, andlike, yes, all those bells were
ringing, but like it wasdefinitely a level of comfort
that I felt with her within twodates where I was like, yeah,
she's awesome, Like I could justyou know, one of those be in
(35:54):
the foxhole with types you know,like it was just Well, what do
you?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
think is the most important qualities from the
onset of meeting thatsignificant other.
Is it beauty?
Is it with the attractiveness?
Is it personality?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
humor, I'm not going to deny that I have my tastes
right, like there's no questionthat you have to have an
attraction.
By that I don't mean like aspecific, like brunette, blonde,
type.
It just I just mean beattracted to the person, of
course.
I just think a level of comfort, something that you feel like
you can talk to or that you'veknown for a while and I you know
, I guess, the qualities thatthat entails is obviously a
(36:32):
level of intelligence andcertainly someone who I
definitely think someone who canappreciate certain kinds of
humor and not get offended.
Where the hell is this trail?
Well, I remember going up theseexact.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
We went up this.
I want to go down the otherside because otherwise we're not
completing the loop.
There it is what was wrong withgoing the way we came and we're
not doing the loop, what You'renot completing the trail,
whatever.
By the way, don't ever do thison Mount Everest.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Makes you appreciate just how fucking tough those
people are man.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's why it takes years of training.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I can't even.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Look at this.
We almost missed this.
This has good foreground righthere.
Yeah, how do you feel?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Feel good yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
All right, this guy did it.
We just climbed down thebiggest elevation drop on an
episode.
He did it.
Oh, is that true?
Those sneakers right there, wecame from all the way up there.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I got to take a picture of that.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, nat, you feel good, feel great, man
Accomplished.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'll tell you one thing man Doing work doesn't
feel like shit.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I love it, so I forgot to ask you this Do you
consider yourself a successfulperson?
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Probably not as much in my eyes as other people's
eyes.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Imposter syndrome.
Yeah, okay, why is that?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Because I think I can always be better.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So what would be the aspect or attribute that gets
you to say, yeah, I've done it,I'm successful.
What would give you thathumility?
There won't be one Ever.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
No, I love it, and I'm not even saying that in a
tough guy kind of way, I'm justsaying it like I just it's not
in my DNA, unfortunately, nomatter what fucking level.
I used to be the guy that goesto a concert and wanted to be
the one on the stage, notwatching, right?
Yeah, because I would getjealous and pissed Like fuck man
.
They commanded this audience,they had this kind of power.
Thankfully, now that's morpheda little bit more into like all
(38:46):
right, well, now I can seewhat's possible.
Yep, rather than like bejealous.
But I can tell you this rightnow, just having seen those
concerts and at least trying tograsp of what it's like to be in
that position it's never goodenough.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
It is awesome playing on stage, but after you've done
that a thousand times, it'sjust a job.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It was just a job.
You can only live in Hawaii solong and appreciate the view
until eventually.
It's just the place you live.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So the grass is always greener, that's right.
Right, I've lived in Manhattan.
I had apartments where itoverlooked great parks, Yep.
Right, I've had offices where Isaw all the way uptown.
I stopped seeing them after afew weeks.
How you doing?
And after a few months thegrass is always greener for a
period of time.
Yeah me.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
And my then girlfriend, now wife.
We had a fantastic view ofEmpire State Building and it was
like probably within two weeks.
It was like you didn't evennotice it.
Yeah, you stopped staring at it?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, because you start realizing that it's taking
too much time.
Then you look for the nextthing to stare at and the next
goal, and the next goal.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Reminds me of.
It's a great line from Lost inTranslation when she says let's
never come back here because itwill never be as much fun.
Love that line.
That is a great movie andthat's a great line.
Oh my God.
Yeah, one of my best performingposts on LinkedIn and I usually
do it.
I'm now going to put it up,probably twice a year, just
(40:21):
because, like just to reuse it,because I know it does well, is
that okay?
Can you do it?
I said the word reuse you haveto repurpose, so you do have to
change text around.
You can change the hook andchange the formatting.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Do you repost it like copy paste or do you like I
copy paste, then alter?
No, but you'll put it as like anew post.
Yes, I don't repost.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
A lot of people do that.
All the big creators do that.
That's just when they're lazyand don't feel like posting that
thing, they always hit repost.
I never do that.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Is it okay to?
I'm asking for my ownunderstanding.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
okay to repost and then add I posted this four
years ago but I loved it so muchI want to post it again, or
some commentary.
You could do that, but what?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I would do is I would literally just change it and
just post it as new content.
Because let's face it like,let's say, you do it three
months later.
In three months, you've gainedfollowers and not every one of
your audience members saw it inthe first place, got it.
But yeah, it's funny.
I don't care about giving awayinformation and giving the
playbook, because you know whatthe playbook is on LinkedIn
right now.
What?
(41:22):
Work your ass off.
I'm serious.
That's the fucking playbook.
You know what I do with myclients, the ones who I help
with LinkedIn.
This is the value I usuallygive.
It's like I have a list ofabout 85 people.
It's on an Excel sheet.
It's my own internal pod,whatever the fuck you want to
call it and I just open thoseprofiles every day, comment on
(41:44):
all 85.
And then I comment on a lot ofother people's stuff, obviously,
and my own shit.
But I worked my ass off.
I built that network.
It took nine months toessentially get in, the good
graces of all the good creators.
That's right To the point whereno, I'm not messaging them
saying you know, please commenton my shit.
They all comment on my shit.
Yeah, so it's funny.
(42:05):
Everybody like poo-poo's, podsand stuff.
What do you think it is when acreator has a dedicated audience
of, let's say, 200 othercreators that always comment on
their stuff?
That's right, there's acommunity, we're a pod.
It's a community and you cancall it a pod, like exactly.
That's why it's like I neverget into those discussions on
(42:25):
LinkedIn, because I'm like lookman, the people who are like in
pods or whatever, they'reworking their asses off.
They're basically engaging withevery other person in there.
So call it a pod, call it this,call it that.
It ain't no shortcut, I cantell you that much.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So how is this any different than, as I referenced
before, building a company?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
No, you're absolutely right If you have a staff of
people.
Your social strategy is to postyour brand on LinkedIn.
I can guarantee you every CEOor founder has said these exact
words.
Guys, we just did a post.
Everyone of you go on LinkedIn,comment, like it up, share with
your friends.
That's right, that is totallyokay, completely.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
It's all organic.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yes, oh, because I know the person already.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Well, how the hell do you think you start?
You start by not knowing them.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
No, you cheer each other on.
It's called being selfless.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
One of the best ways for me to build my own community
, like you just said, is helpingother people.
So it's like if somebodyengages me to help them, I'm
going to say, okay, well, here'sall the people I know.
Start engaging with thembecause they like me and I'm
vouching for you and everybodywins.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That is exactly right .
By the way, we are nearing theend of our trail.
Finally, I know you're happy.
I am Nat Barman.
I think you are very successful.
I am really happy that wecompleted the week of hikes with
you.
Thanks man.
I really enjoyed this one.
I'm going to give you a momentof my own honesty.
When you didn't reply to me onthe multiple comments I've left
(43:52):
about hey, nat, let's take ahike or the messages I dismissed
you in my head, I was just like, well, this guy's a jerk.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
And then I moved past you.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Don't blame it.
I had every right to think thatway.
But then when I took the nextleap, which was on me, that got
us here and I will say I feelvery connected with you, I feel
very aligned.
I am happy to even beconsidered to be in your
community and vice versa.
I'm really happy to share thisepisode with everyone.
Thanks, man, I appreciate it,and I think we overcame some
(44:22):
very many obstacles together.
Dude, how do you?
Speaker 1 (44:25):
feel, I feel good.
A little sore, the toes hurt,the feet hurt, but it's all good
pain.
Good pain and we did ourpurpose.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Well, nat Bourbon, we went to hustle today, so now
can we get a proper high five.
There we go, and that is a wrap.
Next time I took a hike.
We experienced the life ofNadia Carta, an Italian born
American with a warm personalityand a heart of gold.
(44:55):
Hike along as we experiencedthe ambiance of a bustling
Central Park filled withinspirational conversation.
All right.
So have you ever had a thingwhere you do the whole thing and
then you're like fuck, there'sno audio?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yes, I have had those heart skipping, oh shit moments
two times.
One time the audio did notrecord and I had to do a second
recording, second hike with theindividual.
But, it turned out it was abetter hike.
And it was a better audioexperience and we were both
better for it.
That happened on two episodesago Mark Friedman and he was a
(00:29):
second episode and the firsttime it happened I forgot to hit
the record button.
Oh yes, painful.
So, nat and Berman, are you OKwith being recorded on a podcast
?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I am OK with it.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
There goes that liability.
This is I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and Parktime WildernessPhilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors, wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.
In this episode, we follow aninspirational trail comprised of
(01:05):
momentous conversations withNat Berman, CEO of Uncoached
Corp and a phenomenalmotivational figure.
Our topics include startingwith integrity, building digital
real estate and pushing waybeyond the challenges that can
scare us away fromaccomplishment.
We traversed a very challengingand monumental trail when I
(01:27):
took a hike with Nat Berman.
There you go.
So, nat Berman, I sought afteryou to become a guest on
multiple occasions.
I don't know if you saw that Iwas leaving comments and you're
linked in let's take a hike.
I don't know if you saw that Idid.
(01:48):
Ok, I did, but you chose toignore me until I figured out
the one thing I was missing, andthis is an important sales
lesson Try, try, try and try.
I went to your LinkedIn profileand I booked a calendar request
with you because it was onthere.
And I got you to have to payattention to me, Because then
the next thing what did you do?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I looked at your profile and immediately accepted
.
So yeah, I mean it's funnybecause I just didn't.
I don't think I'd looked atyour profile.
If I had looked at your profilethe very first time you reached
out, I would have 100% acceptedand I just, for whatever reason
, didn't at that time.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So shit happens.
This is an important lesson insales.
You just got to keep trying,try until you hear the no and
then keep trying from there.
But the reason why I wanted tohike with you is you and I are
extremely similar.
We're both motivationallyinspired, inspirational, we have
our own styles.
We're prolific on LinkedIn.
(02:48):
I think LinkedIn is a fantasticmedium and we both have had
these great careers and like toteach others from those
experiences.
Yep, absolutely.
Why don't we take a step backand discover more about who Nat
Berman is and we can run fromthere?
Okay, what would you like toknow?
So why are we hiking today?
(03:11):
What got you to this pointtoday?
What was your original careerin?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I mean at a college, career-wise, I was a
recruiter by trade.
Actually, my very first job wasrecruiting in the
pharmaceutical industry and thenI quickly transitioned over to
New York City and I worked forsome firms there where
essentially I recruited likeinvestment bankers, traders,
(03:38):
equity sales, people that kindof stuff, and didn't love it.
And then it was financialservices didn't love it.
What didn't you love about it?
I was very sales oriented, so alot of cold calling.
Also, to be honest with you, Iwas around like a lot of money,
(03:58):
super successful people, so Igot a chance to really see that
world without actually being inthat world.
Okay, and that just wasn'treally for me.
So the one thing I learnedquite well is that one thing I
never wanted to do was ever workfor anyone or have a boss that
(04:19):
kind of thing, so it was alwaysin your vision, to be your own
boss.
Yeah, that was alwaysconsistent.
But, knowing that I couldn'tnecessarily do that right away,
what I?
I think I had four differentrecruiting jobs and each one one
thing got, always got better.
It was either the commute orwho I was working with, that
kind of thing.
I went from a almost three hourround trip at the start of my
(04:43):
career to eventually walking 15minutes to my job and having two
bosses who were incredible, wow, okay.
So that was one really greatkind of lesson that I learned
was that like hey, even withinthe structure of something that
I didn't particularly love, Icould at least work my way
towards a situation that was notbad.
(05:05):
So, anyway, it was actuallyalmost like I wouldn't use the
word karma, but financial crisiswas sort of hitting 2007, 2008.
And in 2007, a buddy of mineemailed me this blogging
platform on Google, which youprobably know Blogspot Yep is
that still around.
(05:25):
I was just gonna say I think itis, but certainly not prevalent
anymore.
Yeah, it's become a littledated.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yeah, although blogging is not, but it's more
often to blogging.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, that word used to be like taboo, yes, and I
think it's definitely not asmuch these days, but anyways, he
sent me this link to Blogspotand I was like what the hell is
this?
And I kind of got hooked.
Truth be told, I started awebsite right when I got out of
college on Yahoo GeoCities,which dates me even further.
Oh, wow, I had that site forlike I don't know a couple of
(05:59):
months and, amazingly, I likebasketball.
My first article was how Ithought Kobe Bryant wasn't gonna
be good in the NBA.
Yeah, one of my worstpredictions ever, yeah.
So anyway, yeah, it wasn'tuntil seven or eight years later
that my friend sent me thislink and I kind of just got
obsessed and I started a couplesites.
They were okay.
(06:20):
I started learning how tomonetize and make money from
them and then I had this idea tostart something called
Uncoached, which was a sort ofright at the time.
I started Uncoached, I thinkBarstool Sports came out about
two months later.
So when people asked me, oh,what was the site you started, I
was it's kind of like that.
It was like a guy's site.
(06:41):
You know, entertainment, sports, comedy, girls.
Oh, like, very much like aMaxim, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Which, by the way, the best magazine ever in my
college days.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I totally agree.
So things kind of picked upwhen you know it's funny.
You mentioned Try, Try again.
One of the things I did on mywebsite was I reached out to
Sports Illustrated every day forprobably six months, Okay,
Before one of their editorsfinally linked to one of my
articles and that kind of gotthe process really moving, of
(07:15):
the site growing and gettingsome traction.
So they mentioned you or theybacklinked to it.
They linked to an article thatI wrote that had a feel great,
it was pretty awesome.
And then all of a sudden it'slike CNN and you know it was
getting picked up by variousoutlets.
What was the article about?
I don't remember the one thatgot linked to in Sports
Illustrated.
I did a lot of sports stuff,Okay, so no, but it became a
(07:38):
regular thing.
So his name is Jimmy Something.
He still runs it to this day.
It's called Extra Mustard andit's this section where they
Jimmy Trayna and they only allthey do is basically link out to
like stuff they like.
Okay, Anyway, that picked up.
You know, long story short, Iended up growing like a larger
(08:01):
sort of portfolio of sites andeventually I moved away from
that model to the moreentertainment stuff, to more
like niche oriented stuff, sosites around finance and real
estate and home and garden andpets.
You know I have like a dog side, a cat side, a parrot side.
Wow, all right so you reallyspread the tension about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really went.
(08:21):
So today I actually still ownthose sites there's about 25 of
them and now, thankfully,they're very, very passive.
I spend about I don't know 20minutes a day on them and the
rest I have a company thatmanages them.
So, okay, they generate revenue, yeah, perfect.
And so essentially I kind oflook at that as, like you know,
(08:42):
I use the word digital realestate.
You know it doesn't mean youknow fantasy worlds.
In the metaverse, it meansliterally owning a property
making money from advertising,pseudo, passively off of Google
traffic.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
So what we do know is passive income is your goal.
Anyone should aspire to havepassive income, whether it is
real estate, which arguably willbe very challenged very soon,
yeah.
Or, in your case, your example,digital real estate.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I love that term.
Yeah, I mean technically.
Right now, you know I'm at apoint where I could live off my
I guess investments or.
But the only thing I wouldcaveat that with is that you're
at the whim of Google's updates.
Yes, especially with thosekinds of properties.
So that could take a bathtomorrow, and it already has in
(09:36):
many ways for a lot of sites inthe industry.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, you brought up a good point you could live off
of.
You know the revenue, theincome.
But here's the challenge At anymoment your passive income can
deplete Yep, and you can depletefrom any.
You know any server service,google.
You know any algorithm changecan greatly affect your income.
(10:00):
Yeah, you have to have thementality that you can't stop
working.
I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That's a lesson that I learned, yep, and I know it
today.
I know it today, like LinkedIn,that's my new medium right, so
you can change your algorithm,which they have literally in the
last week, and they will againand oh, maybe that's the reason
why I'm starting to get sometraction.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's just you are at the whim of you know you're
really renting space to buildyour own platform, identity,
whatever you want to call it,and they can take that away from
you with the snap of the finger.
And I'm of the standpoint ofyou really don't have a right to
whine about it.
It's not your platform.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You either adjust or adapt or you're in deep shit, I
think there's a good, stronglesson in this Is if you get
complacent, you will fallbackwards.
Yep, complacency killscompanies.
Right, the business ownerthat's seen so much success.
He decides to work from homeevery day, literally going on
lunches and golf and vacationsright, the business starts
(11:05):
falling apart.
That leader has taken abackseat.
The investor that just sitsback and lets the market take
its course.
Well, sometimes you got youreye off the road and you go off
the road, yep.
So you have to keep hustling,keep driving.
In your LinkedIn example, thatis a prime example.
(11:26):
You could have every post dowell and all of a sudden an
algorithm change and if you'renot continuing to work and drive
and meet the requirements toget yourself out there, you're
gonna fall behind, yep.
But I did notice that in thisyear I made a concerted effort
to post every day, right andright and right.
(11:46):
For me it was therapy, and alot of them don't go anywhere
and it takes hours.
I think you know how long ittakes to write a good post and
in the last week all of a suddensomething happened where my
posts have been doing well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Well, it could very well be the algorithm, but it's
also the algorithm sort ofrewarding.
There's a lot of big creatorsfrom a few years ago.
Everybody calls them like OG orwhatever, and it's so overused.
It's awful.
Like what the hell is an OGright now?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Biggie, smalls, that's an OG.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Exactly, it deserves the money.
90s rappers or 80s rappers orOGs.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Two-Tuck yeah Del Biv De.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Vaux, but a lot of these folks, and I've been
having a lot of theseconversations lately because
sometimes people ask they'relike, oh, how do you get all
this engagement?
How do you do this?
And the reality is a number ofyears ago you could post
anything and you'd get a ton of,because the platform was
pushing all your stuff, nomatter what it was, no matter
(12:47):
how good it was or bad it was.
So nobody was really testinganything and seeing what worked,
they just posted.
So a lot of those people whopicked up these humongous
followings where do you want togo here?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Go left.
Ok, by the way, how amazing isthis trail.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
So we're capping the week of straight hiking off with
you, a great guest as well asthe best trail for scenery.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, this is incredible.
So a lot of these folks thatpicked up these massive
audiences, I hate to say it, butthey're really salty right now.
They're just pissed becausethey're posting the same crap,
and I will say crap.
I'm not afraid to admit thatthese one line do this every day
(13:34):
at 5 AM crap, and it's likeyou're wondering why it's not
getting picked up by the feedand you're wondering why
nobody's engaging.
It's like, well, becauseLinkedIn has figured things out.
They're like, OK, well, we'regoing to give people what they
really want to read at thispoint, which is not platitudes
and not garbage.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, well, we don't have to name names, but there
are a few individuals that I dofollow.
I follow people who haveinspirational messages or tell
the story the same as everyoneelse, but in a unique way, right
?
So what do I mean by that?
The early bird catches the worm.
Well, ben Franklin said that,but he definitely heard
something like that from someoneelse.
And now it's the person whowakes up early, as Exhibit says,
(14:17):
the first one o'clock in thelast to leave.
There's different ways ofsaying the same message.
Nobody is writing a businessbook that is going to be so
different than anything elsethat's ever been told Exactly,
but they will say it in adifferent message, and if the
reader aligns with that, thenfantastic.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, and I had this conversation on another podcast
recently which the host told meshe said you talk about things
in a very different way thanother people.
And she didn't say you talkabout different things.
She said things in a differentway and there's a huge
(14:56):
distinction there.
It's like look, I'm not tryingto reinvent the wheel, look, I'm
a coach.
Right, I do motivational things, I do tactical things.
None of it's new, none of it.
But the way in which you talkabout it and explain it and use
examples, that is where thewhole for lack of a better word
(15:20):
authenticity really, really isimportant and makes a difference
.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Where it resonates.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, and so for me it was video and t-shirts, right
, like that kind of started thewhole thing.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I do love your t-shirt and I will say what
captivated my attention notcaptured, but captivated was the
fact that you are totally openand transparent.
You basically say that you're aguy who gives inspirational
wisdom while at your pool.
Yes, and I love that becauseit's unique, it is on brand and
(15:54):
it's a little comical in a way.
Right, by doing that, you'rebasically portraying the life
that you want someone else canachieve, right, so that makes
you, in a way, an authorityfigure.
Oh, it's a guy.
Yeah, I mean, that's For me atleast.
I do this stuff while hiking.
This is my pool, yeah exactly,and I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I mean that's the best compliment you can get.
Yeah, I don't know if I'd go asfar as to say I'm an authority,
but I definitely agree thatI've carved something out that
people listen to and, in termsof the one thing that I, at
least think is really importantto do which not enough people do
(16:35):
these days is practice what youpreach, walk the walk, all that
kind of stuff.
I think an amen is appropriatefor that one, and it's only
going to get worse.
As far as you know, I'll alwayssay this you have every right
to be a coach when you're 22,.
Right, you do.
You have every right.
You can go out there and pitchyour services and put out
(16:58):
content every single day foryears.
But the reality is, if you'regoing to be a coach on business
building and you haven't built abusiness, come on.
Like you know what I mean, comeon.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So we see that with everything right Now.
I'm a big believer in fake it.
So you make it, but within thegeneral context, yeah, right.
So what do I mean by that?
If you're running a $1 millionbusiness and you keep losing
client opportunities orprospects because they wanted a
bigger business, then act like a$10 million business Inact
(17:35):
processes, procedures, trainings, invest in your people like a
$10 million business would Fakeit till you make it.
And guess what?
You will get there?
Yeah, Faster than you think.
But I'm not saying to look atyour first resume and say you
worked for Northrop Grumman asthe director of operations.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
If you haven't done that.
Here's a great example of fakeit so you make it and you're
absolutely right.
But perfect example is likethere's a lot of people who use
the word power of no, thatphrase, you know Saying no to
people.
If you have the balls to say noto someone and you're just
starting your business, that'sfaking it till you make it.
In a weird kind of way it's notliterally faking it, but it's
(18:17):
like you're essentially actinghow all the big boys do, which
is saying no to something thatdoesn't fit your business or
whatever it is, and you'restarting from that place of
integrity right away.
I kind of look at fake it tillyou make it as that's kind of an
example of that, where you'renot actually faking it but you
are emulating what some of thereally successful companies have
(18:42):
already done.
And when you come from a placelike that, the phrase fake it
till you make it, I think, comestrue, because if you do that
long enough, eventually it willbe in your favor.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I love what you just said.
Start with integrity.
I think that should be thefirst line of any business plan
Integrity, because that's whatsets great businesses apart with
the integrity, and integritycan be defined in your business
integrity, your ethicalintegrity, your cultural
integrity.
(19:14):
But integrity in the businessis the consistency that you
would need.
And if you have a customer,let's say you're in the service
industry for refrigerator repairand your potential client says,
can you design a website for me?
You better not say yes.
And it does happen wheresometimes you do whatever that
(19:34):
customer wants.
I have some caveats with that,but sometimes that's a good
thing, but in this case probablynot.
Have some business integrity.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, I'm with you there.
Like it's interesting, becausewhen you're on social media
there's nowhere you can hidefrom vitriol and people saying
bad things.
And over the years I justliterally laughed that crap off
and I'm like thanks for theengagement.
(20:04):
You know what I mean.
And it's just like, oh my god,can I high five you on that one.
Sorry, that was a low five.
That was a low but theycouldn't see it.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You had to mention it .
So now it looks like we did anerd five.
I love that you said that.
So I see this all the time andthis is a lesson in investing
the right emotions.
If someone says somethingnegative to you, it's like
hearing a no in business Justpush past it, ignore it, use it
as fuel and, in the case ofsocial media, I don't know if
(20:36):
it's done on purpose by somepeople, but when they say a
negative remark, it brings themattention.
It might not be good attention,but that might be the attention
they want.
But if you engage it properlywith kindness, you can keep that
commenting stream going forwardand it just boosts you.
It boosts your stuff.
I posted something the otherday and someone said it was a
nice humble brag, and I politelysaid I think you might be
(21:01):
missing the point of this.
I'm not bragging in any way,shape or form.
Notice how my thread is talkingabout the negatives of my first
statement.
Right, the first statement isit's written for shock yes, and
then the rest of it is called ahook yes, that's how writing
style is made.
So, anyway, they went back andforth to your first statement,
bragg.
Your second state, humbleHumble.
(21:21):
So we went back and forth, andthe entire time I was like
listen, I wish you the best.
I will celebrate your successwhen you post about it.
And that's when it stopped.
But, yeah, negative engagement,please keep it up.
So how do you ultimately dealwith it, though?
Has anything that has been saidnegatively gotten to you, or is
this a learned behavior?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, no it's a good question because I was actually
getting to something along thoselines, which is very, very few
things will affect me where I'llthink about it for more than a
second, but there is one type ofpost or type of comment that
will elicit a reaction.
So for anybody out there whoreally wants to piss me off,
just do this.
It's when someone actually doesquestion my integrity.
(22:01):
So if I see a statement where,like, I've had posts go up
before where I've had a prettystrong hook that says something
that's eye inducing, that ismeant to do that.
But one thing I will say isevery single hook I've ever
written A is true, in whateverway you want to interpret it,
(22:26):
and B, I'll always follow it upin the post, in the body.
So, but this one time I wrote Ihave had a 100% success rate
with clients.
Okay, that is a hook.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I want to read how the hell is that possible?
How is that possible?
Either full of shit, but I wantto read more Exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Or this is true and I want to learn more, and that's
so your response that you justsaid right now, you're the guy
I'm writing to think about that,right, like you're the person
I'm writing to because you'resmart to recognize that, hey, he
did something like that, andeither he's going to prove it or
this post is full of shit.
Yep, right.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So but, by the way, if it is full of shit, I'm
hopeful that deep in your body Iknow what you did.
I appreciate what you did toget me read and there's a
learning lesson in there that Icould take away.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yes and B.
You know I have to own up to iton my part.
So what happened from there wassomebody who was actually a
pretty big person on theplatform out to me and said look
, they said it's somewhatpeacefully, but I don't know,
it's debatable.
They basically said like youknow, I'm having a hard time,
you know, believing that acouple of people reached out to
(23:35):
me and they pointed out thispost that you made to me and I
had to have to reach out to youand he had the respect of doing
it like in the DMs, nothing inthe public.
So that was cool.
I think it was a good place.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And he's like it's still be a selfish thought, but
okay.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And he goes there is no possible way you've done that
.
There's only one coach in thehistory of coaching who's had
100% success rate, and here'shis name.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Is this like a?
Nancy Pelosi is the bestfinancial advisor in the world?
Scenario.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
No, no, no, no, no.
But I explained it.
I said look, every person I'veever worked with has had a
positive outcome from what we'vedone.
I can't speak to whether or notit's the exact result they
wanted, but in you know, in myeyes I've helped out 100% of the
people I've worked with.
I stand by that statement, but,you know, if I look back, I
(24:26):
take ownership over the factthat I can't decide whether or
not that 100% is agreed upon bythose people.
You know what I mean.
Like I know that I've helpedthem all and let's let them pass
.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I don't want them to die.
Sure, bro, like a towel,nature's towel, some dried
leaves, yeah right, or asleep.
So I see where you're goingwith us, but you, I believe you,
by the way you have helped 100%of the people.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And, by the way, I talked to a lot of, because this
, this comment and conversationwe got into it went a lot
further than that and weactually got on the phone, which
I don't really want to get intoall of it.
But I had a conversation with alot of people about this and I
was kind of torn like, like youknow, is he right?
Or like you know what's goingon here?
I know I've reflected, I didand, pardon me, I felt bad
(25:18):
because when we were actually onthe phone conversation, I
literally and this goes back tofive minutes ago, this is why I
brought it up I said look, man,you're questioning my integrity
and that really, really pissesme off.
Like I was very, very annoyedbecause he was basically saying
you're not who you say you areand when someone says that, then
I will come back and I will saysomething.
(25:38):
But I even called the guy back,I even called him back, I even
emailed him back and I said,look, I apologize for being
abrasive, whatever you know, youmake a good point and we kind
of left it at that andeverything's fine and I'm
calling you a phony.
But in a sense that's what Iread out of it and if his
interpretation is different thanwonderful.
(25:58):
But if I think I'm being calleda phony, then yes, I'm going to
react that way and I willcontinue to react that way
forever.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Well, I certainly commend you for reacting that
way, right, because you putsomething out there Again.
It's a lot of work to curatethese stories in a way that's
understandable by an audience,and they do come from the heart,
and when I read your posts andseveral others, I could tell
(26:27):
they're coming from the heart,they're coming from a good place
.
I don't think I questionintegrity if I followed you and
I believe you.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right and you know what.
Again, to this person's creditor to their personality,
whatever, I don't think this issomeone that was following me
for a particularly long time oreven saw a lot of my content, so
I'm just telling you it's ashow that you can think it in.
Anyways, stay made here.
I am saying like I kind ofdon't even blame the person for
saying that, because that's theonly thing they saw of me, but
(26:55):
still pisses me off.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I'm still going to react.
There's a lesson in that Beforeyou leap, we should look, as
has been famously stated, andsometimes people like to post
negative leap because it drawstheir own attention, and that's
if you look through their feed.
I challenge you to do thisactually Then that's next
negative post you get.
Go look at all of the historyof that person's post and see if
(27:18):
this is what they do for aliving Because it draws
attention, right.
And if it's just a one-timepost, then my recommendation to
anybody TikTok, instagram,facebook, whatever post as
negatively as you want, itdoesn't matter, I don't care.
But when it comes to LinkedIn,that's a professional business
networking platform.
(27:38):
Why would you ever want anegative comment to come out of
your personal persona Ever?
If you're applying for a job,they're looking at your LinkedIn
profile and if they see thatyou're a negative poster, are
they going to want to hire you?
So negative posting on LinkedIndon't do it, unless that's your
shtick.
If that's your thing you'redrawing attention and that's
(28:00):
what you want to be known forsure.
But if you're an employee,someone you recently had on your
podcasts is like that.
Maybe you shall not mentionnames.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
No, I'm going to mention.
In pause.
I'm calling you out, posner.
You're Mr Negative.
Well, here's how we're going tosolve this battle, are you?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
ready.
We're going to have a hikerversus hiker showdown.
We're going to mic both of youup and you're going to shtick
talk each other until the lastman survives.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I hope he's listening to this and he's smiling right
now because he and I are verycool with each other and like
each other, and that's just partof our thing is rousing each
other.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
But so you are actually hitting on another
really important note forsuccess Competition.
Competition is awesome If youuse it the right way.
If you're angry aboutcompetition, you are going to be
blinded by rage.
That is not a good fuel source.
But if you have a friendlycompetition, if you are friends
with your competitors, use them,work with them, have them, try
(28:52):
to one up you, you, one up them.
It will help you grow yourbusiness.
It will also help educate yourprospective customers.
Competition is awesome,celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, and along the exact same lines.
Look, I'm a coach.
Two of my clients are coaches.
That says something.
And they also go after theexact same people that I do.
That's right.
So are they competitors?
Yes, but here's the reality.
The reality is that noteveryone is for everyone Sure,
and so if I'm going to helpsomeone grow their business and
help them target the same peoplethat I target, I'm totally cool
(29:22):
with that, because their style,who they are, is going to
resonate with someone else,probably a little bit better
than me and, in some cases, notas good as me, and they'll get
that person as a client and I'llget the other person as a
client, and the world goes round.
So it's like it's not.
So what would be your?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
advice.
By the way, we are walking up astream bed, yeah, and if we do
get a torrential downpour, youand I are going to be flushed
away.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I think we're safe today.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
And we're off the beaten path, off the trail which
I love.
I didn't even know that.
Oh yeah, this is your.
Yeah, this is my domain.
You know this, but let me getyour advice.
What are the three mostimportant attributes that
someone could look into whenselecting the right coach?
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Very good question.
So the first one is essentiallydo your research Right.
I mean, you see somebody'sprofile, it looks okay.
You see, you know some of thethings about them, the
appearance is great.
But you really want to kind ofdo your research as much as you
can, whether that's a referencecheck or asking them very, very
specific qualifying questions.
(30:22):
That's probably the first thingI'd look for.
The second one, which is reallyimportant, is are they who they
say they are, which is very youknow.
It's basically an extension ofthe first one.
And if they are and they meetall those criteria, then the
very last one is you know, doyou get along with them, do you
mesh with them?
Are there, is it someone youthink you'd be comfortable with,
that you'd want to work with,that you'd be happy confiding
(30:43):
with?
So obviously the two of youhave to gel and you got to kind
of go on your gut on there.
So that's the three I wouldrecommend.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Matt Berman.
Words of Wisdom.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Let me flip the script on you.
If you could have one guest onyour hike, you could hike with
one person, who would be RichardBranson.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You didn't hesitate at all.
There I've got a list ofthoughts that run through my
head in a stream ofconsciousness that I cannot turn
off at any point.
And Richard Branson, to me, isthe most successful human that
has ever walked the face of theearth.
He is extremely dyslexic.
His education was limited, hewas dismissed, he was troubled,
(31:25):
yet he had the chutzpah.
The chutzpah.
Anybody that told him he can't.
He ignored and used that asfuel.
And look at him today livinghis best life, well-balanced
life, with the most importantkey attribute with the help of
others.
And he is a cultural leader, acultural icon and an inspiration
(31:46):
to many.
It's awe-inspiring and I wouldlove to get him on the show.
Look at his view the foliage.
I'd say this was a hike.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Nat, as long as you admit it was a hike, because
you're like, experienced at thisshit, nat took a hike.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I'm sweating my balls off.
I'm slightly missed it.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, I could sit here for a little bit.
This is awesome.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Hey listener, thanks for hiking along with us.
Discover more episodes athightokahikecom, or to recommend
an adventurous guest, apply tobe a sponsor or to simply drop
us a line.
All right, where did the trailgo?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
It was over here somewhere and we're slightly
above it.
I think I really wish I wouldhave like a.
I met my wife on a hike kind ofstory, but I don't.
I'm always jealous of peoplewho have those stories Like,
yeah, actually I was on a hikeand she kind of met her and
what's that.
I was just saying how it wouldbe like it'd be cool if I had a.
I met my wife on a hike story.
(32:46):
Oh, even though I met her on afucking shady day, I actually
have one of those.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Do you really?
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Every time I tell the storywhich is 100% factual and true
one, I get the I don't believeyou at first, and then, when you
know, I validate it withpictures and stuff like that,
and everyone's like, wow, you'relike the last person to have
met in person.
So I was just started thecompany.
It was three months old, it wasJune 28th of 2008.
(33:12):
And I decided to take the dayoff early because I had no
customers, no business, and Iwas bored.
That happens.
So I went to the dog park withmy dog, dexter.
I was, I was in Madison Squaredog park.
All right, I'm trying to keepmy.
Long Island accent away to theleft Dog, dog, dog, dog, dog,
(33:34):
dog, whatever.
Wait, what's your Long Island?
I'm from Nassau County, fromNorth Balmore, I'm poor
Washington.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, that's why we get along.
Yeah, possibly.
So I was in the dog park and Igot there around 2pm and I
normally would get there fromfive and leave no later than 5
30, because that's when the rushcame in and for some reason,
you know, beautiful day, I justsaid, you know I might as well
(33:56):
stay, stayed till five.
I'm a normal time getting there, stayed till 5 30, my normal
time leaving.
Music started playing in thebackground, there was a band on
this makeshift stage in the parkand I stayed and it's later
later, about 6 30 rolls around.
So all of this isuncharacteristic, out of my
normal routine and I am acreature of routine and in pop I
(34:18):
wouldn't have guessed that.
Yeah, I am, and in popped thisthe love of my life, beautiful
woman.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I got to go see about a girl.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, yep my wife well at that time, my nothing.
Yep.
Christy walks in.
There's a whole set of benches.
It's a huge park for New YorkCity.
In the dog park she sits nextto me and then she screams for
her dog.
She goes Peepo, come here.
I thought she said beatbox.
(34:47):
Now, I was not the mostcourageous person when it came
to women, but instantly, withouthesitation, I said to her did
you name your dog beatbox?
That's such a cool name.
And then she corrected me andthat was it.
From there we had aconversation and within 15
minutes of the conversation, thevoice in my head said I'm
marrying her.
Oh, that's the park people.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
That's the park.
No one believes.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, but I will tell you it is 100% true.
That was the voice in my head.
The reason why it is true is itwasn't a love at first sight,
infatuation sense.
I've had lots of love at firstsights in my life, lots of
girlfriends, right, I was 28.
I just started the business.
I did not want a girlfriend,but what I was telling myself is
take this one seriously.
Yep, and that was it.
(35:30):
And now we're married.
Nice, so, yes, we met in reallife.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
I had a similar feeling about my wife where it
was like, yes, I thought she wasattractive when we first met
and all that kind of stuff, andlike, yes, all those bells were
ringing, but like it wasdefinitely a level of comfort
that I felt with her within twodates where I was like, yeah,
she's awesome, Like I could justyou know, one of those be in
(35:54):
the foxhole with types you know,like it was just Well, what do
you?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
think is the most important qualities from the
onset of meeting thatsignificant other.
Is it beauty?
Is it with the attractiveness?
Is it personality?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
humor, I'm not going to deny that I have my tastes
right, like there's no questionthat you have to have an
attraction.
By that I don't mean like aspecific, like brunette, blonde,
type.
It just I just mean beattracted to the person, of
course.
I just think a level of comfort, something that you feel like
you can talk to or that you'veknown for a while and I you know
, I guess, the qualities thatthat entails is obviously a
(36:32):
level of intelligence andcertainly someone who I
definitely think someone who canappreciate certain kinds of
humor and not get offended.
Where the hell is this trail?
Well, I remember going up theseexact.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
We went up this.
I want to go down the otherside because otherwise we're not
completing the loop.
There it is what was wrong withgoing the way we came and we're
not doing the loop, what You'renot completing the trail,
whatever.
By the way, don't ever do thison Mount Everest.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Makes you appreciate just how fucking tough those
people are man.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's why it takes years of training.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I can't even.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Look at this.
We almost missed this.
This has good foreground righthere.
Yeah, how do you feel?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Feel good yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
All right, this guy did it.
We just climbed down thebiggest elevation drop on an
episode.
He did it.
Oh, is that true?
Those sneakers right there, wecame from all the way up there.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I got to take a picture of that.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, nat, you feel good, feel great, man
Accomplished.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I'll tell you one thing man Doing work doesn't
feel like shit.
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I love it, so I forgot to ask you this Do you
consider yourself a successfulperson?
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Probably not as much in my eyes as other people's
eyes.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Imposter syndrome.
Yeah, okay, why is that?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Because I think I can always be better.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So what would be the aspect or attribute that gets
you to say, yeah, I've done it,I'm successful.
What would give you thathumility?
There won't be one Ever.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
No, I love it, and I'm not even saying that in a
tough guy kind of way, I'm justsaying it like I just it's not
in my DNA, unfortunately, nomatter what fucking level.
I used to be the guy that goesto a concert and wanted to be
the one on the stage, notwatching, right?
Yeah, because I would getjealous and pissed Like fuck man
.
They commanded this audience,they had this kind of power.
Thankfully, now that's morpheda little bit more into like all
(38:46):
right, well, now I can seewhat's possible.
Yep, rather than like bejealous.
But I can tell you this rightnow, just having seen those
concerts and at least trying tograsp of what it's like to be in
that position it's never goodenough.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
It is awesome playing on stage, but after you've done
that a thousand times, it'sjust a job.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It was just a job.
You can only live in Hawaii solong and appreciate the view
until eventually.
It's just the place you live.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
So the grass is always greener, that's right.
Right, I've lived in Manhattan.
I had apartments where itoverlooked great parks, Yep.
Right, I've had offices where Isaw all the way uptown.
I stopped seeing them after afew weeks.
How you doing?
And after a few months thegrass is always greener for a
period of time.
Yeah me.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
And my then girlfriend, now wife.
We had a fantastic view ofEmpire State Building and it was
like probably within two weeks.
It was like you didn't evennotice it.
Yeah, you stopped staring at it?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, because you start realizing that it's taking
too much time.
Then you look for the nextthing to stare at and the next
goal, and the next goal.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Reminds me of.
It's a great line from Lost inTranslation when she says let's
never come back here because itwill never be as much fun.
Love that line.
That is a great movie andthat's a great line.
Oh my God.
Yeah, one of my best performingposts on LinkedIn and I usually
do it.
I'm now going to put it up,probably twice a year, just
(40:21):
because, like just to reuse it,because I know it does well, is
that okay?
Can you do it?
I said the word reuse you haveto repurpose, so you do have to
change text around.
You can change the hook andchange the formatting.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Do you repost it like copy paste or do you like I
copy paste, then alter?
No, but you'll put it as like anew post.
Yes, I don't repost.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
A lot of people do that.
All the big creators do that.
That's just when they're lazyand don't feel like posting that
thing, they always hit repost.
I never do that.
What is it?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Is it okay to?
I'm asking for my ownunderstanding.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
okay to repost and then add I posted this four
years ago but I loved it so muchI want to post it again, or
some commentary.
You could do that, but what?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I would do is I would literally just change it and
just post it as new content.
Because let's face it like,let's say, you do it three
months later.
In three months, you've gainedfollowers and not every one of
your audience members saw it inthe first place, got it.
But yeah, it's funny.
I don't care about giving awayinformation and giving the
playbook, because you know whatthe playbook is on LinkedIn
right now.
What?
(41:22):
Work your ass off.
I'm serious.
That's the fucking playbook.
You know what I do with myclients, the ones who I help
with LinkedIn.
This is the value I usuallygive.
It's like I have a list ofabout 85 people.
It's on an Excel sheet.
It's my own internal pod,whatever the fuck you want to
call it and I just open thoseprofiles every day, comment on
(41:44):
all 85.
And then I comment on a lot ofother people's stuff, obviously,
and my own shit.
But I worked my ass off.
I built that network.
It took nine months toessentially get in, the good
graces of all the good creators.
That's right To the point whereno, I'm not messaging them
saying you know, please commenton my shit.
They all comment on my shit.
Yeah, so it's funny.
(42:05):
Everybody like poo-poo's, podsand stuff.
What do you think it is when acreator has a dedicated audience
of, let's say, 200 othercreators that always comment on
their stuff?
That's right, there's acommunity, we're a pod.
It's a community and you cancall it a pod, like exactly.
That's why it's like I neverget into those discussions on
(42:25):
LinkedIn, because I'm like lookman, the people who are like in
pods or whatever, they'reworking their asses off.
They're basically engaging withevery other person in there.
So call it a pod, call it this,call it that.
It ain't no shortcut, I cantell you that much.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
So how is this any different than, as I referenced
before, building a company?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
No, you're absolutely right If you have a staff of
people.
Your social strategy is to postyour brand on LinkedIn.
I can guarantee you every CEOor founder has said these exact
words.
Guys, we just did a post.
Everyone of you go on LinkedIn,comment, like it up, share with
your friends.
That's right, that is totallyokay, completely.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
It's all organic.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yes, oh, because I know the person already.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Well, how the hell do you think you start?
You start by not knowing them.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
No, you cheer each other on.
It's called being selfless.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
One of the best ways for me to build my own community
, like you just said, is helpingother people.
So it's like if somebodyengages me to help them, I'm
going to say, okay, well, here'sall the people I know.
Start engaging with thembecause they like me and I'm
vouching for you and everybodywins.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
That is exactly right .
By the way, we are nearing theend of our trail.
Finally, I know you're happy.
I am Nat Barman.
I think you are very successful.
I am really happy that wecompleted the week of hikes with
you.
Thanks man.
I really enjoyed this one.
I'm going to give you a momentof my own honesty.
When you didn't reply to me onthe multiple comments I've left
(43:52):
about hey, nat, let's take ahike or the messages I dismissed
you in my head, I was just like, well, this guy's a jerk.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
And then I moved past you.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Don't blame it.
I had every right to think thatway.
But then when I took the nextleap, which was on me, that got
us here and I will say I feelvery connected with you, I feel
very aligned.
I am happy to even beconsidered to be in your
community and vice versa.
I'm really happy to share thisepisode with everyone.
Thanks, man, I appreciate it,and I think we overcame some
(44:22):
very many obstacles together.
Dude, how do you?
Speaker 1 (44:25):
feel, I feel good.
A little sore, the toes hurt,the feet hurt, but it's all good
pain.
Good pain and we did ourpurpose.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Well, nat Bourbon, we went to hustle today, so now
can we get a proper high five.
There we go, and that is a wrap.
Next time I took a hike.
We experienced the life ofNadia Carta, an Italian born
American with a warm personalityand a heart of gold.
(44:55):
Hike along as we experiencedthe ambiance of a bustling
Central Park filled withinspirational conversation.
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