Scott MacGregor - Adversity is a Gift

How often do you pause to ponder the meaning woven into the 'dash between the dates' on a tombstone? Join us and our esteemed guest, Scott MacGregor, as we traverse the profound landscapes of entrepreneurship, personal growth, and the pursuit of a life rich with purpose. Scott, a CEO and author with a penchant for defying the status quo, reveals his philosophy on life's fleeting nature and how a single act of positivity per day can cascade into a tidal wave of change. Our conversation delves into Scott's courageous leadership choices, such as abolishing sales quotas, and how aligning individual and company goals can foster an environment of growth and loyalty even amidst economic storms.

Navigating through personal and professional trials is no minor feat, yet it's often within these crucibles that resilience and innovation are born. We reflect on Scott's story of risk-taking, from leaving a secure job to disrupt the recruiting industry, to the challenges faced as a single father, all whilst battling a rare heart condition – Brugada syndrome. Scott's narrative is a testament to the power of supportive relationships, humility in leadership, and the relentless pursuit of a life beyond mere survival, whether it's in the boardroom or at home.

As we conclude our journey and hint at the stories awaiting in our season finale, we invite you to join us on this reflective hike with Scott MacGregor. It's an episode that peels back the layers of entrepreneurship, exposes the heartache and triumph of battling addiction within a family, and ultimately, showcases the indomitable human spirit. This conversation promises to reshape your perspective on adversity, life's impermanence, and the value of each moment we're given.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, scott McGregor, are you okay with
being recorded on a podcast?
A hundred percent.
There goes that liability.
This is I Took a Hike.
I'm your host, darren Mass,founder of Business Therapy
Group and part-time wildernessphilosopher.
Here we step out of theboardrooms and home offices and
into the great outdoors, wherethe hustle of entrepreneurship
meets the rustle of nature.

(00:22):
In this episode, we take one ofthe most inspirational life
purpose journeys with ScottMcGregor, ceo of Something New,
author of the Standing O Seriesand founder of the Outlier
Project.
Our topics include making thedash between the dates
meaningful, defying all odds,learning from humble beginnings

(00:42):
and maintaining a positiveoutlook regardless of the
wake-up call.
This is truly one of the mostinspirational stories that I
have had the pleasure of beingpresent for when I took a hike
with Scott McGregor.
This episode is proudly broughtto you by Brand Built, a

(01:04):
dynamic social media networkingcommunity designed to elevate
your success.
Join our dynamic community forexpert social media guidance,
valuable lessons, education,weekly spotlights, monthly
speakers and a robust brandbuilding network.
Explore more at mybrandbuiltcomand join me in the chat for a

(01:25):
thriving journey to success.
So, scott, you came very highlyrecommended by my good friend,
adam Posner, who has thePawscast.
There you go, adam.
I gave you a plug.
Thank you so much.
Why did he recommend you?
Why do you think he recommendedyou?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
You know we work in the same industry, you would
think we're competitors, but Idefinitely have an abundance
mentality, and I think Adam doestoo.
We've been very good friendsfor quite a while.
He's a part of a community thatI run called the Outlier
Project, and I think we justhave mutual respect.
He knows probably a good dealof my story, and I would imagine

(02:04):
that was the reason for therecommendation.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah.
When he phoned me up, he saidthat you're a very successful
individual, an achieverNonetheless.
You've had a great story.
You are very altruistic withyour time, You've benefited a
lot of people.
You've had multiple successfulexits.
So why don't we get the 30seconds of who the heck are you?

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I don't know that's a complicated question.
I'm a simple.
I'm really a simple guy whojust wants to live an
extraordinary life.
There's a lot of reasons forthat.
I think part of it is how Igrew up, Part of it is just an
innate desire to make sure thatthat dash between the dates is
meaningful.
I mean, I just cannot evenimagine I got to pause you there

(02:46):
.
The dash between the dates ismeaningful.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
I mean, I just cannot even imagine I gotta pause you
there.
The dash between the dates ismeaningful.
That's all I think about.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Wow.
I mean, there's a reason forthat and we can get into that
whenever you like.
But you know I'm paranoid.
I don't wanna sleepwalk throughlife.
I've seen my dad in particular,and so many other people
actually.
They just sleepwalk throughlife and I think what a waste.
We're wasting an opportunityfor ourselves, for our own

(03:14):
happiness, but we're alsowasting our gift that we have to
give the world.
If we do that, I want to livemy version of an extraordinary
life, and my version might notbe your version, might not be
Joe's, might not be Ed's, itmight not be anybody else's.
I want to live an extraordinarylife.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
I absolutely align with you there, right, part of
the main reason why I'm doingthis crazy thing called a
podcast, driving across theworld here to record great,
successful people, is the exactsame reason.
I want to hear what it's liketo be successful, what's your
personal opinion of success, andI want to leave a mark on the

(03:56):
world where, as you said, thedash actually has some meaning.
So I think you just put thatprobably in one of the most
inspirational ways that I'veever heard.
Between the dash andsleepwalking, it's all that
really matters.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
It's at the end of the day, no one's really going
to care about the businesses Ibuilt.
They're not going to care aboutthe books I wrote.
They're not going to care aboutthe house I live in, the car I
drive.
The only thing that's going tomatter is the impact I made.
They're not going to care aboutthe house I live in, the car I
drive.
The only thing that's going tomatter is the impact I made, and
either I made one or I didn't.
I don't have, like you know, alot of people are.

(04:33):
I want to impact a billionpeople or a million people or
whatever, and that's fine forthem.
I always question whetherthat's a real number and a real
driver.
To me, it's like if I can haveone interaction a day that makes
a positive impact on somebody,I believe wholeheartedly in the
ripple effect and that's what Itry to do every day.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, you have a great mind and a great heart.
I can tell already, and whenpeople are describing I want to
impact a million or a billionpeople, I think that's just
because we humans like to have atarget, we like to have a
destination, destinationarynumber, so it just it's easier
to explain it that way, whereasI'm going to say for guys like

(05:16):
you and I we just want to makesure that we don't leave too
much of a stain on society,except for a positive one.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, I think the number thing.
To me it's a little bitsometimes of a vanity metric,
like it sounds good.
But I used to do a lot of goalsetting with.
I was a chief revenue officerfor 17 years and I eliminated
quotas and we just worked onpeople establishing a goal and
then us trying to help them hitit and it was kind of a

(05:46):
revolutionary thing to do at thetime.
Eliminating quota sounds likethe craziest thing you know you
could possibly do.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
I agree with that.
Having run sales organizationsright, Having been the CEO of a
company, eliminating quota is alittle bit crazy.
It's preposterous.
Why would you do that?
That's the drive.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Best thing I ever did , because when you apply a quota
across the board, so I had avery large national sales team
and they were remote and thiswas 20 years ago, so a little
ahead of out of our time, maybewhat kind of products we're?
We actually created a new space, so a a space that didn't exist

(06:24):
, which is now called ManagedPrint Services, but at the time
we were just doing somethingthat no one else had done before
.
But what I realized is that andI had left a Fortune 500
company, pitney Bowes, and I hadan opportunity at 29 to be the
CRO of a startup.
It was five people and I was incharge of sales marketing and

(06:46):
client success, but there was nosales marketing or client
success.
I had to build it all fromscratch.
So it was a new category inthat itself.
Yeah, and it was.
What I realized is that theacross the board we're going to
have a million dollar quota andthat's going to translate into
an on-target earnings ofwhatever like that might be

(07:08):
meaningful to one person.
It might be completelymeaningless to the next person
and I thought, why don't we justwe're going to turn here, guys?
Why don't we just really focuson what's important to people
and some of them it out it was.
They wanted a house on theJersey shore.

(07:29):
For another one it was I wantto make sure that I can send my
kids to a certain school.
For some it was an income goal.
But when you work, when you putall of your effort as a leader
into helping people achievetheir goals not your corporate

(07:50):
goal that you just arbitrarilyset and said, hopefully this
motivates everybody it's a gamechanger.
So we were already successful.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
We had our best years after I implemented that I can
completely align with that and Ioften coach clients, business
owners.
Stop putting your goal around atarget number because, let's
say, your number is to have amillion dollars in one year in
your paycheck.
By the time you get to thatmillion dollars, your lifestyle

(08:19):
had increased.
All of a sudden, a millionisn't worth a million anymore.
So really put it.
Put your goals around lifestyle.
I want to not have to go to theoffice every day.
I want to be able to do this orgo on vacation two times a year
and afford first class.
That's a good lifestyle goalyeah, so how long did the no

(08:42):
quota system continue to work?

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Until I left.
So I implemented it and we ranit like that for about maybe 10
years and we had double digitgrowth every single year for 17
straight years, which wasinsanely easy in the beginning,
as you know, because you'regoing from nothing, and very
hard when you're doing 30million to continue to kind of
keep growing at that pace.

(09:07):
But a lot of it was.
We were doing things nobodyelse was doing.
Nobody had a remote sales force, you know, 40 people all over
the place and a no quota systemwhich actually allowed me to
attract talent that I hadprobably no business attracting.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
So how did you measure the success of your
salespeople if there was no baror no quota?

Speaker 2 (09:30):
We would sit down and really discover with them what
are your goals.
And never in the ten years thatwe did that did we have
somebody whose personal goal wasbelow what the company would
need to be successful, and thenwe just put all of our effort
into helping people reach thosegoals.
So there was always somewhat ofa quantifiable aspect to it,

(09:54):
because if you want to get thatJersey Shore house, or if you
want to be able to retire atthis age or you want to be able
to send Sally or Bobby to acertain school, there's almost
always a financial component toit.
We're just, we just flipped thescript a little bit and it was
a complete game changer, did you?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
have to deal with sales individuals that couldn't
quite cut it and see them go.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
We did, but I would say one of my claims to fame, if
I have any, is we went nineyears and never lost one person.
Not one person.
And how many people on staff?
Probably about 60 at the time.
Wow, that right there.
People don't go nine monthswithout losing somebody.
We went nine years.

(10:37):
The first person who ever leftwas a woman, lauren Dureste, and
she was a very successful rep,but she really wanted to become
a psychologist.
So you didn't lose her either,though.
Well, she just went and reallywent to her true calling.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
But she pivoted, so I can align with that.
One of my claims to fame isduring the 10 years of our
company, we never had anemployee quit or leave on their
own.
We did have to help a few go.
I mean, sometimes people don'talign with the plan or the
mission, the vision, the values.
I remember telling one personhe was too good for the industry
and I meant it.
I truly felt that if thisindividual, who was at that time

(11:16):
a new person in the workforce,the millennial, I remember
saying your personality's toogreat, your aspirations are too
great, I'm going to do you afavor and let you go.
He looked at me dumbfounded andI said because I don't want to
hold you back, but don't worry,you can stay here as long as you
want, but just work on findingsomething outside of this
industry.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
I mean that's true leadership, and so many people
don't have the guts to do that,but that's true leadership.
So not only did you give him agift, but I'm sure everybody
around him that little bit ofpush, because, at least in my

(12:06):
experience, the most successfulpeople have been able to
motivate others with respect,and it goes both ways.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
And when you see somebody that you know is a
rising star, you have to leadthem, you have to coach them,
you have to mentor them, andsometimes that means you know
what.
Maybe you shouldn't be on thesales floor, maybe you're cut
out for something bigger.
I'm still very impressed.
Nine years, no one really leftyou, no, and you didn't have to
help many go.
That's awesome.
So where did you pivot fromthere?

Speaker 2 (12:36):
We had so much growth , and especially 2008,.
The economy was terrible.
No, I remember.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
That's when I started mass communication.
Everyone thought I was nuts,and you did it at 28, which is
really crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, let me ask you why.
Why is that crazy?

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, it's probably not because you've got the
opportunity to take a swing.
And I guess it's very similarto when people would say to me
you've done so well at PitneyBowes, why in the world would
you ever leave?
You could stay here forever.
I'm like, I'm 29 years old.
Well, the word forever is scary.
What am I risking?

(13:12):
If it works, it's going to begreat, and if it doesn't work,
I'm not really sure that I'velost a lot.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, you just go back on a jump.
So that was my motivator.
Right there it was my unclesaying what have you got to lose
?
You don't have a wife, youdon't have kids, you have a dog.
Go live with your parents orget a job.
I did have two kids, a mortgage.
So for you that's crazy.
For me it wasn't so crazy theage.
I was wondering where you'regoing.
The age doesn't matter.
But a couple of weeks ago weinterviewed Jim Keys.

(13:40):
He was the last CEO of Blockblockbuster and I told him a
story on how I was an employeeof blockbuster for six hours
because they the first thing youdo as an employee of
blockbuster.
You go to their corporateheadquarters.
You watch a training video,which is probably about four of
those six hours, and one of thesections of the training video

(14:01):
was the employee who is nowgraduating to become a manager
and the announcer came on andstarted talking about career
ladders and how you could builda corporate career here and work
your way up to management andyou can have a forever job.
And it's that word, forever,that scared the hell out of me,
creaked you out?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
yeah, Well, that's why you're an entrepreneur and
that's why you've been able todo the things that you've been
able to do.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
I would be fortunate in that, but I'm only getting
started.
So back to you.
You pivoted, and then what?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
We were hiring a ton of people in an economy where it
seemed like nobody was hiring.
So I was getting bombarded bycalls from recruiters.
So I was getting bombarded bycalls from recruiters
headhunters not to necessarilytry to place me, but they knew
we were hiring a lot of people.
So I just really felt, afteryears and years of dealing with

(14:57):
recruiters and headhunters, thatit was one of the most
dysfunctional, backwardsindustries I'd ever seen in my
life.
I said this is so antiquated,it's so ripe for disruption.
I know I could build a bettermousetrap and so this is the
embarrassing part I put abusiness plan together to build

(15:18):
that mousetrap, but I sat on itfor a decade.
I was scared to death to jumpoff the cliff and do my own
thing.
It seemed irresponsible.
I had two kids.
I was making way more moneythan I ever would have imagined
that I was making and eventhough I liked it, I didn't love

(15:40):
it.
It just seemed unbelievablyirresponsible.
But my wife Meg was like Scottyou got to do this.
It's what you think about inyour spare time, it's what you
work on in your spare time.
You've got to do it.
And with her encouragement,nine years ago I jumped off the
cliff and it's worked out prettywell.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
So a couple of follow-ups on that One.
The support of a supportivespouse is everything to
successful people.
It really is.
It's a partnership, especiallyin a marriage, right, and would
you be willing to define whatmore money than you can imagine
meant?

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, I mean at the time I was probably making 300
and something thousand a year,and that was in 2008?
Which, yeah, and you know my,my dad probably never made more
than 20 something thousanddollars in his life, and it just
seemed like, wow, wait his life, well, I mean in a year.
Yeah, per atom, yeah, wow.
And he was an entrepreneur, heowned a gas station, he was a

(16:44):
great customer service personand provided like a world-class
experience, but really didn'tknow how to run a business and
didn't understand that youactually have to make money in
order to sustain that level ofcustomer care.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Well, you just hit on something that's really
important, and it's unfortunatebecause not everyone figures
this out until it's too late.
But if you are in business,your number one priority is to
generate revenue.
It doesn't matter if it's analtruistic business, a charity a

(17:18):
501, 5013, whatever right.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
You have to generate revenue, otherwise it's a hobby
and my dad didn't reallyunderstand that, and so he would
give stuff away for freeconstantly and it ultimately
just led to the business notbeing as successful as it could
have been, but just seemed.
If my parents ever knew to thisday, I don't think.
Uh, hopefully my mom doeslisten to these podcasts.
God forbid she.
I typically don't talk aboutthe money I've made, but right,

(17:42):
but I think they'd be shocked.
So you know it was a greatdecision.
I give Meg all the creditbecause we're certainly had a
really nice lifestyle and sheknew that my heart was in
another place and she not onlyallowed me to do it but really
encouraged me to that's socritically important.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Spouses out there, if your husband, wife, significant
other, if they have a dream,push them to that dream.
You might just be successfultogether.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
And now we're reaping the benefits of that
encouragement with twobusinesses that are relatively
successful.
So it's my talent strategybusiness, which is called
Something New.
That's the business I startednine years ago.
Well, I'm like I want to doeverything different from the

(18:36):
experiences that I've had.
So let's call it Something newand put the pressure on.
We've been very fortunate.
We've won eight consecutiveAmerican Business Awards for
innovation, which is a record,and you have to.
If you're going to call yourcompany something new, you've
got to constantly be innovating.
And then the other Somethingnew Right, exactly, otherwise

(18:57):
you're a fraud.
And the second is the outlierproject, which is a membership
community.
That's just absolutely exploded.
So I started that a coupleyears ago and we have about 700
members in 34 countries and it'sgrowing, like, like a weed.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's great scale.
So what is the Outlier Project?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
The Outlier Project is an opportunity for everybody
to figure out how to live theirversion of an extraordinary life
, and I think the number one wayto do it is to surround
yourself with extraordinarypeople, and throughout my life
I've surrounded myself withpeople that were 10 steps ahead
of me, because I drawinspiration and motivation and
humility life.
I've surrounded myself withpeople that were ten steps ahead
of me because I drawinspiration and motivation and
humility from being around thosepeople.

(19:43):
And I knew that because I'm ahuge relationship guy and that's
really been the secret to anysuccess that I've ever had.
I knew I could give peopleexposure to people that they
would never really be able tointeract with.
And whether that's, you know,we just had Matt Higgins the
other day, and you know, mattwas, you know, the youngest

(20:04):
press secretary in the historyof New York City, wrote a Wall
Street Journal bestseller calledBurn the Boats, was guest shark
on Shark Tank.
But we have people like thatGuy Kawasaki, who's like the
first evangelist in the historyof you know the world, rudy
rudiger, brandy chastain wait,you had the rudy rudiger.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
The rudy rudiger, not sean austin's, not sean the
real rudy.
All right, I'm gonna pin thatone because I want to talk about
that for a second, sure, but sothese are all very well-known
individuals.
Is this an invite-onlyorganization?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
No, anybody can join.
It's private in terms of youhave to pay dues to join, but
it's extremely inexpensive andfor what you're paying the value
there is no other community.
I think that's delivering thevalue that we're delivering.
It's so unique.
I mean it's all live andinteractive.

(21:00):
So, for instance, we had 10people that had conversations
with Rudy and they were like ohmy God, this is a guy I've seen
the movie 10 times and criedevery time.
And now I'm actually talking tohim.
Two days ago we had MattHiggins and one of our members
was talking about her businessand her podcast and he said
would it be helpful if I came onyour podcast?

(21:22):
And she also serves themilitary community.
He said not only that, but Iwill get a very high ranking
military official to come on aswell, and just something as
simple as that could change herlife Absolutely and she started
crying.
It was really, really impactful.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, that's pretty amazing.
And just for the record, ifthis does make it into the cut,
this episode is not a plug forScott or his business or any
hiker's business.
I myself am very inspired bythe Outlier Project, so that's
why I'm asking the questions I'masking.
I think it's pretty cool thatyou're able to do this.
So just a little more detail onit.
How does the Outlier Projectwork?

(22:03):
I sign up, what do I do?
You?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
sign up.
We have 200 live interactivevirtual events a year 200.
And we have 12 in-personmeetups, everything from.
In two weeks I'll be inNicaragua and we're going to
help build a library for one ofour members, pete Shaler, who
runs a non-profit in Nicaraguacalled Rio de Sol, and then

(22:30):
we're off to the Kentucky Derbyand the Army-Navy game and Head
of the Charles and US Open andall kinds of things we're going.
Brandi Chastain, who's alegendary female soccer player,
probably scored arguably themost famous goal in soccer
history, is a very good friendof mine.
She just started her pro soccerteam called Bay FC, so we're

(22:54):
going to San Francisco tosupport her and watch a game and
she's gonna spend the game withus.
So just unique stuff.
Meryl Hodge will be with us forthe Kentucky Derby.
So it's just.
These friendships that I'vebuilt over decades are priceless
and I realize that thoserelationships give me access to
do things that normally peopledon't have the access to do, and

(23:18):
it's a blessing and I want toshare that with as many people
as I possibly can.
So I absolutely love that.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
So I'm going to go down the road and say you
probably put high value onbuilding real relationships.
What's your take?

Speaker 2 (23:35):
on that.
It's the if I don't know that Ihave any superpower other than
that I'm better at buildingrelationships high level,
strategic relationships than theaverage bear, because I have a
strategy, I have a system to doit and I understand what it
means.

(23:55):
My ability to do good things inthe world is directly
proportional to the people thatI know, and the more high impact
people I know, the moreopportunity I have to accomplish
the things that I want toaccomplish, to do good in the
world and, as I said before,kind of make that dash
meaningful, you know so makingthe dash meaningful, one

(24:16):
relationship at a time.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
By the way, it's probably going to be the title
of this.
I see walking around in nature.
You get this inspiration.
It just comes to you.
So I want to take a quick pivotand I'm sure we'll circle back,
because my adhd brain does thatI got it too, yep well, okay,
let's go on that pivot tangentfirst.
You have ADHD.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
I do.
How has that helped you?
I didn't know I had it.
I knew I had a learningdisability.
I wasn't sure what it was.
It was diagnosed when I was anadult and I said screw it, I've
figured out how to navigate.
And it's actually I think it'skind of like if you lose your
eyesight they say your hearinggets better.
So because there were certainthings that I just really

(25:01):
struggled to do, it made merelationship building is
probably the number one thingLike I really understand how to
develop deep friendships.
So I don't think aboutnetworking, I think about my
friendships.
Like what do I have forfriendships?
Connections on LinkedIn stufflike that are absolutely
meaningless.
If you're in my phone and I cancall you and you're going to be

(25:24):
happy that I called you or sentyou a text.
That's a relationship, that's afriendship.
That means something to me.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
I was very happy when you called me this morning
because the one thing I normallydo with guests is a follow-up
just to make sure we're trudgingout here.
Crew and equipment we're on.
And I will say my heart skippeda beat when you called.
I was about seven minutes outand I was like, oh no, I hope
he's not canceling.
But no, you didn't.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
So I guess I am honored that you called me no,
I've been looking forward tothis for since the day we set it
up.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
That is awesome and I love it All right, so back to
ADHD.
How has it hurt you?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
How has it stumbled you or held you back?
It hurt me early on because itdictated a lot of the choices
that I made and it put me atsomewhat of a disadvantage.
I kind of had an inkling that Iwas going to go into sales
because I thought, if I was agood communicator, that's really
what I needed, and certainlyempathy, work ethic, discipline,
resiliency, all that otherstuff is incredibly meaningful.

(26:26):
But I knew I wasn't going to beable to go to law school Like.
I just knew that was not goingto be for me.
I wasn't going to be anaccountant Like it.
Just that stuff just does notwork for me.
So it narrowed my choices.
It definitely dictated I was acommunication major in college
and I chose that because I didthink I was going to go into

(26:49):
sales and I knew thatpresentation skills and writing
and being able to speak andconvey messages was really
important and I thought I'd getthe most of that.
But it really.
There were certain subjects andI graduated with honors from
school, Even with ADHD.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
So it's just proof that ADHD doesn't have to be a
disability when it comes tolearning.
You know what.
You lead the way.
This is your backyard.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
I'm so into this conversation I forgot what was
going on.
Welcome to my world.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
This is why I do what I do.
I love it.
Adhd is a very important topicto me.
In fact, it's very apropos forthis conversation because I am
big on LinkedIn.
I love LinkedIn, but I use itfor therapy.
To me, linkedin is my journal,so I get to tell the world about
what's on my mind and thatkeeps me engaged, keeps me

(27:42):
honest.
And today's post as apropos asthis is on February 8th is about
ADHD and how I was labeled thedumb kid and thrown away by the
education system.
But I wasn't the dumb kid, Iwas just bored, frustrated and
distracted.
So it's a very near and deartopic to mine.

(28:03):
But I often get a little bitconcerned when people call ADHD
a superpower as well, becausethere are plenty of people who
have it, that struggle, and weonly hear the success stories,
much like everything else inlife.
We hear of Bezos and his boats,but we don't hear of the
million other entrepreneurs thatfailed and are struggling to

(28:24):
feed their families.
So it is not a superpower, it'sjust what you choose to do with
it, based on your circumstance,your hustle, your drive, your
grit I never really even thinkabout it me.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
It's a non-issue in my mind and I don't like to hang
on to stuff like that because Ithink sometimes you can become,
you can get into a victimmindset and oh, I've got.
So I don't want to be ScottMcGregor, successful whatever,
who has this or that you know.
But I recognize it's certainlya part of my story, so I have no

(28:57):
problem talking about it.
It's just not.
It's not something that'sreally prominent in my life.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Well, you probably also have a mild case, if I'm
guessing right.
There's varying cases, right?
There's the extremes, just likeon the autism spectrum.
There's extremes from mild toall the way to almost
non-functioning.
Yeah, it gets very bad.
I have friends whose childrenare very functioning, and then I
have other friends where it's adaily struggle.

(29:22):
Yep, that's the world we livein.
I want to take a pivot now.
Rudy Rudiger.
Yep, the story's true.
We know it's true, right, butdid you get a chance to speak to
him on any exaggerations in themovie, or did it play exactly
like it should?

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, I've talked to him, not during our time
together that he spent with thewhole community Offline.
I've had lots and lots ofconversations with him over the
years.
By and large, the movie is veryaccurate.
There is a new addition thatjust came out that he said adds

(30:01):
about 20 minutes and said hesaid changes kind of the whole
thing.
So I haven't seen it yet andI'm not sure what it actually
explores.
That was kind of cut out in thein the first version.
But he's an extraordinary guy.
Really.
He's an outlier.
To me he's the perfectdefinition of an outlier.
He was not born with steve jobsbrain, yet he gets into notre
dame.
He was not born with SteveJobs' brain, yet he gets into
Notre Dame.
He was not born with MichaelJordan's DNA.
He plays football at Notre Dame.

(30:23):
Granted, not a starter played acouple plays, but he's a true
outlier.
That's the definition of anoutlier, and he was.
You know, I thought I said,rudy, I want to kick off 2024
because to me you're like theoutlier's outlier.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
He's the underdog that Americans want to cheer for
, but it's the heart.
It's the classic story of youcan get told can't a million
times you got to ignore it.
The people who are told can'tand ignore it seem to survive
and thrive the most.
So I love that, and somethinghas always kind of bothered me
about the story so I might aswell go there.

(31:05):
Yeah, they threw him in at thelast moment of the game.
There was no chance in losing,correct, correct.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, they had already had Georgia Tech.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Now we're all cheering for the underdog that
he's out there and he's playing,but he did show talent as well.
Right, he was talented, but hejust didn't get his shot.
What's your opinion on the factthat they threw him in there
knowing that they can't losethat?
It is more of a contrivedAmerican sob story and it's, in

(31:37):
a way, kind of messed up that wemade him the poster child well,
I mean or anyone in thatposition?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
I think number one it was really a confirmation of
here's a guy who had no businesseven being at that school,
nevertheless being on the field.
That got his brains beaten inday in and day out and came back
.
So I think they wanted to honorhim in that way.
The other thing is it reallywasn't a big story.

(32:07):
Rudy had to work tirelessly toget that movie out.
I mean, that movie was rejectedover and over and over again
and nobody knew who Rudy Rudigerwas until the movie Rudy came
out.
So it was not this big mediathing.
It wasn't let's do this becauseit's going to look good.

(32:29):
You know, I think a part of theexaggeration done for Hollywood
was the Rudy chants and thingslike that.
Was there a smattering of thatfrom what I've been told?
Yes, there was some of that,but it was not this overwhelming
.
There was a small story writtenin, I think, the the Notre Dame

(32:50):
or local newspaper about it,but nothing big.
And even after it happened, yes, he got carried off the field,
but it really was not a hugestory.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
So that's kind of how I always felt.
It's like, oh great, you threwthis kid in.
He had all this heart and youjust threw him in when you knew
you couldn't lose, so who cares?
It's very American in thethinking.
I just felt more bad for Rudybecause it's almost like he was
like all right, monkey dance.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yay.
Well, it changed his life.
I know that and I know he'sincredibly grateful.
He's incredibly humble.
He gives credit to the mostunlikely people.
He's just an amazing guy andI'm blessed to call him a friend
.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
So let's talk about humility.
How important is humility insuccess?
I?

Speaker 2 (33:36):
think it's really important.
You know a lot of it.
All of my friends who have metwith massive success and I mean
massive success.
They've won Super Bowls,they've won Olympic gold medals,
they've run billion dollarbusinesses, they've written New
York Times bestselling books.
Most of them never talk aboutit.

(33:56):
They never talk about it.
Jesse Itzler is a very goodfriend of mine.
I follow him on LinkedIn allthe time and Jesse, yes, he'll
give you a little bit of like.
This was the come up, but he isnot talking about when he was a
rap star or when he he did allthese different things sold
Marquise Jet to Warren Buffett,sold Zico Water to Coca-Cola,

(34:20):
sold 29029 to iFit.
He doesn't talk about thatstuff.
It's always what's next, what'snext, and so I think they all
have an incredible sense ofhumility and it's what drives
them to move forward, becausethere's no finish line.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, you're right, I'm going to pin no finish line
because I definitely want toexplore that.
But do you think some of thereason for the humility is the
buzzword or the buzz term ofimposter syndrome?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
That's a good question, I know I mean that is
a good question.
Is humility because of impostersyndrome, probably.
I think one thing that I'verealized in having friends that
have accomplished things thatare truly extraordinary, all
those things that I justmentioned like they've hoisted a
Super Bowl trophy they all haveimposter syndrome, every single

(35:14):
one of them.
You talk to Dick Vermeuleimposter syndrome.
You talk to Brandi Chastainimposter syndrome.
Every single one of them.
You talk to Dick Vermeuleimposter syndrome.
You talk to Brandy Chastainimposter syndrome.
You talk to Jesse impostersyndrome.
It's it just, it's all over theplace.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
What do you think imposter syndrome means to you?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Feeling like you don't belong, like how did I get
here?
I have that feeling all thetime, that feeling all the time.
I'm like because I still.
There's a part of me that has aversion of Scott McGregor
growing up poor in an affluenttown.
Sports leveled the playingfield a bit for me, but I still

(35:51):
kind of am that kid.
This is crazy, but I still likeif you opened up the back of my
FJ, you would see that I've got, you know, all the cans and
stuff ready to go back.
Like I'm going to be gettingthe five cents.
I don't need to do that.
But yeah, part of it isprobably a bit of imposter
syndrome.

(36:11):
I always pinch myself and say,how the heck did I get here?
Like, what am I doing here?
It's always a circuitous routethat got me there.
It's never a straight line, sothat forces you to be humble.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
That forces the Itzlers of the world, the Brandy
Chastains of the world, to havea sense of humility, almost
because imposter syndromeregisters a little bit as
embarrassment of beingdiscovered as a fraud, as a
phony, and I think we all relateon the topic.
Right, we've all achieved, butI've kind of pinpointed.

(36:48):
A lot of imposter syndrome hasto do with the fact that you've
had your 10,000 hours of mastery.
You've made what you do seemeasily.
So when you, for you, buildingrelationships is easy.
So when you make a connectionin a relationship and it just
instantly takes place, you'reshocked at oh, that is easy.
So when you make a connectionin a relationship and it just
instantly takes place, you'reshocked at oh, that was easy,
why is anyone buying this crap?
But the reality is, is they'rebuying it because you spent your
10,000 hours?
To you, it's registering is tooeasy, it's true.

(37:11):
I also think that everybody whoyou just mentioned yourself
included, myself included hashad a team of supportive people
that have believed in the leaderso much that that's probably a
deep-seated reason for beinghumble.
You can't take credit for yoursuccess.

(37:32):
You could take credit foraspects of your success, but
your spouse, meg, pushed you inthe direction.
No doubt you were successfulbefore, yeah, but she was there
by your side, so she's part ofthat.
The team, the 60 people thatwere on your team without quota,
that exceeded your expectations, were part of your success.

(37:52):
So for you to stand on thepodium and say me, me, me, I, I,
I, that's pretty asinine.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
I agree it's all about I have a saying people
over everything, because I thinkthat's the key to success in
business is when you realizethat your success in business is
predicated more on your peoplethan any other factor, and it's
by a landslide than any otherfactor, and it's by a landslide
you start to behave differentlyand you really think

(38:20):
intentionally about things liketalent acquisition, onboarding,
retention, and it's sofrustrating when I talk to a
founder or a CEO and I saywhat's your biggest expense,
they say 100% of the time theysay labor, Labor's people.
I'm like, okay, it's yourbiggest expense.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
And biggest risk.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Every company wants to get to a next level.
Every company, and whateverthat level is, could be going
public.
It could be we want to get ourA round of funding and I'm like
what do you have to do?
What do you think you have todo to get that?
Most of the time not all thetime, but most of the time not

(39:05):
all the time, but most of thetime the answer has something to
do with people.
So I'm like okay, biggestexpense is people.
The biggest thing that you needto do to get to the next level
has to do with people.
And then the third question iswhere the wheels come off.
I say how often do you and yourexecutive leadership team sit
down and talk intentionallyabout your talent strategy?
And the answer is never.
I'm'm like well, how do youthink you're going to succeed?

Speaker 1 (39:22):
That's a big myth.
It's crazy.
It doesn't shock me.
I mean, I tell my clientsyou've almost gotten to me where
it's too late.
You don't seek the marriagecounselor until you're on the
precipice of separation, right?
There's no aha.
We should solve this problembefore it starts and festers,
right?
Same thing with partnerships,same thing with businesses and
business owners.
The mistrust sets in, thefairness or unfairness sets in,

(39:43):
and a lot of it has to do withlack of communication and a
disdain or lack of trust fortheir people.
And again, people are matteringthe most.
I like to say people matter themost because that's what gets
you to your goal.

(40:04):
There's no single person thathas become successful without
the help of others, and a greatleader inspires those around
them to achieve their goals.
If you think about it, no onewants to work for your lifestyle
company.
Lifestyle companies are great,don't get me wrong, but nobody
really wants to work there,because most people want to
achieve the next rung on theladder, they want to win, they
want to pat on the back theachievement, the monetary bonus,

(40:25):
the compensation.
They want to meet their goals.
And if you're running alifestyle only company and you
have a team of people, they'rerunning in place forever because
you're feeding your lifestyle.
That's not an advantage to yourpeople.
So if you really want to meetand exceed your lifestyle,
that's not an advantage to yourpeople.
So if you really want to meetand exceed your lifestyle goals,

(40:46):
rather than the monetary goals,you need to feed the people,
you need to take care of people,you need to inspire them and
you need the company to grow aswell.
Celebrate the wins on thescoreboard together.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
How do you think it's going so far?
Phenomenal.
It's the most fun I've had on apodcast ever.
Oh great, that needs to make itinto a highlight reel.
I may never do another one.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
I'd hate to cancel tomorrow's, but yeah, what's
great about all of this is youkind of lose bearings of where
you are.
The conversation, just flows.
Oh, it's so much fun.
So much fun what I would dowith my team if I had to make a
difficult conversation happen.
We would take a walk, yeah,because once the blood's flowing
it's just easier to have thatencouraging moment and then that

(41:23):
corrective action we didwalking interviews, we did
walking reviews and all thosethings, because it does get you
in a freer state of mind.
Yeah, there's no doubt whenyou're out here what I noticed
and this is all by accident,right, happy accidents, right
discovered by accident.
When I did the first episode Iwas worried about tripping and
falling.

(41:43):
So all of a sudden I'madmitting things that I would
never admit to people.
I never told people I had adadhd, but on the first episode I
did right.
I was like shit, why'd I saythat?
And I realized it's becauseyou're too worried about
tripping, stepping in something,falling, but you're not worried
about covering up andfabricating.
Yeah, and the guests realizethat too.
So yeah, the veil is kind of uhlifted hey, listener, thanks for

(42:08):
hiking along with us, discovermore episodes at itookahikecom,
or to recommend an adventurousguest, apply to be a sponsor, or
to simply drop us a line.
All right, shall we?
Let me switch sides?
So I pinned, growing up in adifficult situation.
Hardship, you said you were thepoor kid in an affluent area.

(42:29):
Can we explore that a little?

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, you know, I grew up in the town that we're
in right now.
I grew up on the shoreline inConnecticut, Madison,
Connecticut.
Everybody around me, theirfather or mom, were a doctor, a
lawyer, a pilot whatever, andyour dad's a gas station owner.

(42:52):
And my dad owned a gas stationand he was an entrepreneur, but
he didn't really make any moneyand we really did not have
anything, so we were definitelyeconomically very different.
Luckily, I put everything myheart and soul into sport.
It was my passion, and footballand baseball, so it leveled the
playing field for me.
Because I think if you're adecent athlete, your friend

(43:15):
group changes, everythingchanges.
So it didn't really, and no one.
And I think it you're a decentathlete, your friend group
changes, everything changes.
So it didn't really, and no one.
And I think it taught me toothat no one really cared that we
drove a car that, even thoughit was the typical cobbler with
no shoes like the cars we had,were so embarrassing it was
crazy.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Do not get me started on embarrassing cars.
I think I might beat you.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
So my dad had a car that had a hole in the roof and
the and he had spilled grassseed and there was grass growing
about this tall on thepassenger side.
If you can beat that, I'm gonna, I'll give you.
You were the clampets.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
We were the clampets.
Oh wow, okay, I don't know if Icould beat that.
We had something that wenicknamed the Nick Mobile.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Because a gentleman, probably about a week before he
died in his 90s, knocked on mydad's door.
He was a neighbor and said, hey, do you want my car?
I'm dying?
And my dad gladly accepted it,without knowing what it was.
Yep, because that was my dadand this thing had rust holes

(44:26):
everywhere.
I don't know what model it was,because I'm fairly certain
Chevy or Chrysler had wanted toerase it, but it was the color
of these dead leaves, yeah, withan interior bench seat with
holes in it and rips of thecolor of these dead leaves.
And it started without a keyand it had rust everywhere.
And that was my brother's firstcar and that was the car that I
got dropped off at school threeblocks away, mind you and my
dad was very happy with his freeautomobile.

(44:47):
And yes, like you, my dad had agreat work ethic.
He worked as an architect, butarchitects don't make a lot of
money.
The owner of the firm does.
So he had to start his own sidehustle business where he did
architecture for residentialhomes on the weekends and during
the day it was building thebuildings in Manhattan, worked

(45:08):
on the world trade center andbig buildings like that.
But yeah, he didn't make a lotof money, yeah at all.
So humble beginnings.
I was not the rich kid either,but I did what I could to fit in
, like you.
So do you?
Did you ever get picked on forbeing the poor kid in the rich
town?

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I think because of sports.
I didn't, luckily, so I neverhad to really deal with that,
but I had embarrassingsituations.
My mom was a seamstress, so mymom made our clothes and I
remember in sixth gradeeverybody started wearing Oxford
shirts like how Connecticut ofyou right exactly how very
preppy of us.
So I had mine on and somebodygrabbed the collar and said is

(45:50):
this, you know, whatever?
Ralph Lauren.
And in it it said made withlove by Kathy.
It was a moment that I was veryembarrassed.
You know, at the end of the dayWere you made fun of Not really
again sports, like just really.
I'm so blessed that I neverdealt with the teasing or
anything like that.
I never had to deal with any ofthat bullying.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
That was completely, I think, due to due to athletics
, so I like how you fit in inthat sense.
Plus, you probably were good atwhatever sports you picked
right I hope you were, Otherwisethat would have gotten you
picked on.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
I went to school on a Division I baseball scholarship
.
What position I would haveplayed second base in college.
I wound up blowing out my back.
I got a buddy of mine, jeffBagwell, who's in the baseball
hall of fame now.
He's probably the greatestHouston Astro of all time.
He and I grew up together.
He said, hey, take a look atthis program at the university

(46:49):
of Hartford.
I'm going there and Pat Hedgesgoing there and all these other
guys who wound up gettingdrafted.
And I went up and I met thecoach.
This guy, bill Dennehy greatguy, phenomenal recruiter
decided to go there.
I herniated a disc in my backthey were going to do I had the
choice I could do surgery or not, and I was just like you know
what.

(47:09):
I'm 18 years old.
I'm not having back surgery at18 and I'd rather call it a wrap
on my sports career.
And was that a kick to the nuts?
It was, but I focused all ofthat.
So I had an insane work ethicand I was incredibly disciplined
, always like my whole life, andI just turned that into.

(47:34):
Let's put that into school andput that into you know.
Then my first job, and I waslike you know, I was an absolute
nut job, like a maniac uh, it'sthis work, ethic and drive that
seems to be a common trend did.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Was there a brief moment where you thought that
your career, your life was, waspotentially in limbo?

Speaker 2 (47:54):
no, I, I still thought, you know, I was going
to play in the majors one dayand you know it's funny that the
guy who was sitting on my couchdrinking a beer wound up being
one of the greatest players inthe history of baseball.
But you know, I think we allhave those delusions of grandeur
.
At times I wanted to be a rockand roll drummer.
Look at me now.
I've also always viewed like,anything like that, that

(48:17):
happened.
I truly believe adversity is agift, like adversity is the
greatest gift.
You don't see it sometimes inthe moment, but all the insane
stuff that's happened to methroughout my life and I I mean
some of it is, you know, almostunbelievable.
It's really, it's the reasonfor any success that I've had.

(48:40):
So I really view adversity,covid, I'm like this is just a
moment in time.
I remember when 9-11 happenedand it was like you know, the
majority of our business wascoming out of New York City.
Majority of our business wascoming out of New York City.

(49:01):
And it's how do you sell whenthe world is paralyzed and it's
seems so inappropriate to be,you know, selling anything when
you know the world is in suchchaos?
But those are all gifts, thoseare all things that you know.
They lead you to be able totake that next punch, cause
there's always going to be one,and you know.
Whether it's nine, 11, whetherit's the meltdown of oh eight,

(49:24):
whether it's COVID, there'salways something.
And the more you get hit andthe more you're able to like
okay, I can handle that the moreconfidence.
I remember somebody on my teamsaying like man, how are you so
calm?
Because I've been through somuch adversity that it doesn't.

(49:45):
It's not that it doesn't phaseme at all, but it has a far less
of an impact.
Yeah, it's just, it's likedoing reps in a gym.
I've just built that resiliencemuscle and I don't get and I
don't get knocked down ordistracted that easily.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Any bad situation.
There will always be anopportunity and an upward trend
in momentum at some point.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
And it forces you to think differently, to think like
okay, you know, I think this ismy only avenue, but that's
never true.
My old boss, when I was a CRO,I reported to the CEO and he had
a rule that when you went tohim you always had to have

(50:30):
multiple solutions to theproblem and the first one that
you gave him he would alwaysreject.
It didn't matter what it was,and what it taught me over time
was there's so many differentways to solve a problem but we
sometimes just get locked in on.
This is the only way that thisbusiness will work or we can

(50:51):
make revenue or whatever.
And you know COVID was a greatexample of so many companies
that pivoted tremendously andyou would have thought, man,
they're dead.
Joe DeSena, who's the CEO ofSpartan, is a friend of mine and
you think here's a companySpartan Races that all they do

(51:11):
are outdoor races that theycould not do, and he had a call
every morning at six o'clock andI joined that call every single
day for months on end to listento him and his leadership
through.
You would think there's nopossible way this company

(51:31):
survives and they're thrivingright now especially without any
revenue, but that that isresilience and fortitude.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
I'm sure they had enough free cash reserves to
weather the storm, and I canguarantee there were lots of
heated, panicked moments, ofcourse oh, huge.
Absolutely Everyone faced thesame reality.
I think it's important torealize that we are all human
and, no matter how big or smallyour business is, everyone

(51:57):
weathered the storm together,and there are plenty of big
companies that no longer existbecause they just couldn't stay.
They didn't have the ability tostay the game or stay the long
game.
This is quite a lovely trail,by the way not quite a trail,
but just the whole area itself.
You are fortunate to have livedon such a great hiking area.

(52:20):
Yeah, it's a cool.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Sometimes I forget.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
By the way, when I'm looking at my phone I should
probably note this sometimesbecause you capture it on the
video when I'm looking at myphone, I'm either looking at a
trail map or taking a note tofollow up later.
I am not being the rude personanswering emails.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
So we're gonna go right through here.
All right.
So what's next for you?
I am really excited abouteverything that we have going on
with the outlier project, so Iam all chips in.
Let's give you a plug.
How do we find the OutlierProject?

(52:58):
It's very easy you go to theoutlierprojectco and You're into
those Colombian subdomains, huh, or top level domains.
All the information's there, soit's easy.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
I love that.
I think it's a pretty coolconcept and I will certainly be
checking it out.
It's cool.
It's definitely cool.
So let's talk about your family.
Sure, what are the kids up to?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
So my boys have struggled to a degree.
Both joined the military rightout of high school.
My oldest joined the MarineCorps.
My youngest joined the 82ndAirborne.
My oldest was a very goodwrestler.
He was on the national team andhe wanted to go to college to

(53:45):
wrestle and I said Indiana,right, that's the top school.
Iowa, probably top school, buthe wasn't that good and I said,
well, you're not going to go tocollege just to wrestle?
And he said, well, what aboutthe military?
So they both joined themilitary.
When you say struggled.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
What do you mean struggle?

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Well earlier in their life.
So I was a single dad.
When they were 10 and 12, theirmom abandoned them and moved to
Florida and so I was left witha 10 and 12 year old, both with
learning disabilities, and I hada crazy job as a CRO and two
horses, two dogs, et cetera, andI was all on my own, unmarried.

(54:30):
Well, my wife moved to Florida,she left and we got divorced.
That had to be tough on them.
You know it's tough.
I think it's especially toughwhen you already have issues.
You know, later in life.
Unfortunately, my oldest son, uh, has had severe substance abuse

(54:52):
issues and you know he's beenhomeless, he's been in and out
of the hospital, he's been injail and you know he's trying to
find his way.
My, uh, my youngest son is isdoing really well.
He's in california, uh, he's anemt, probably going to become a
firefighter or do something, uhof that nature.

(55:15):
But you know, I'm proud of I'mproud of both of them for the
adversity that they faced andthe fact that even my oldest,
while he's, you know, struggledmore than anybody I've ever
known.
He figures out how to get upevery day and put his feet on
the floor and I don't know howin the world he does it.

(55:36):
Of course you do.
Have you met his father?
Well, he's a different level interms of what he is dealing
with and where he's at in life.
How old is he?
He's 30.
What was the substance?

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Heroin, I didn't want to guess, but yeah, it's.
Unfortunately, that is a realpandemic that we're not doing
enough with in this country.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
It's shocking because he went from probably the most
dedicated kid you could possiblyimagine in wrestling.
I mean, he would say I'm goingto float you know a quarter of a
pound in my sleep and makeweight, and you know he was
competing at the highest level.
You could compete, um, allstates, yup, and you know, on

(56:24):
the national team.
So he was uh, you know he'sdoing some pretty cool stuff to
you know, a kid who wouldn'ttouch anything to that slippery
slope what was it hanging outwith the wrong crowd, depression
.
Yeah, mental illness, that youknow.
He was in therapy from.
You know, probably the time hewas five years old and just

(56:47):
really struggled with amultitude of different issues.
Do you blame yourself ofdifferent issues?
Do you blame yourself?
I don't.
I was incredibly present, nevermissed.
I coached every single sport.
I never missed a school eventever.
You know super, super involvedwith my kids and I really don't.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
So you were the picture of a perfect, you know
American supportive father.
Yet things can go wrong.
Were there any warning?

Speaker 2 (57:25):
signs.
I mean, there were definitelywarning signs because he, you
know, he had had issues, uh,with anxiety and depression and
they weren't.
They weren't really sure whatit was.
I mean, I had this was probablya scary moment.
He was, I don't know, maybeeight years old and I had a
doctor, this guy Blake Taggart.
He said to me and this guy is aHarvard and Yale grad he said

(57:50):
Tucker's the most complex caseI've ever seen in my career.
So they, it wasn't, you know,you've got adhd, it was.
So it's so complicated.
And then later in life, whenyou threw substance abuse on top
of that, it's just a recipe fordisaster why do you think he
turned to substance abuse?

(58:11):
uh, just trying to cope withlife, that's, you know listen I.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
I've had my own challenges as well in my early
20s.
You know it's there.
You're trying to figureyourself out as a human.
What is this life for?
You're facing all these complexproblems, someone passes you
something and you just want tobe part of the party yep and you
know you, you do whatever thatthing is and it it wakes you up
and you say, wow, what have Ibeen missing my whole life?

(58:38):
And then, unfortunately, whenit comes to a substance as as
challenging as heroin, it'saddictive right away.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Yeah you, there's certain things you can't unring
the bell, and you know that'sone of them.
That boy it is.
Uh, it's not impossible,because I've seen plenty of
people that have conquered it,but it's certainly
extraordinarily difficult.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
The story is very universal and, unfortunately,
parents in this country aredealing with it at a very early
age, in early teens now and itdefinitely needs to be talked
about more.
Do you think you had a momentwhere you could have grabbed him
and said, "'you're cutting itout now.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
I'm you here, I'm taking control yeah, I mean I, I
unfortunately, you know, Icommunicated very clearly with
both of them, and not justcommunicated, but like in
writing.
These are the rules.
If you break these rules, theseare the consequences, and they
knew exactly what that, whatthose were, and unfortunately

(59:39):
they, they chose, uh, not tolisten or not believe that that
would happen.
And you know, I had to makethem both leave, uh, the house
when they were uh, 18, um and uh, that was.
That was unfortunate, but thoseare.
You know I've learned I can'tlive their life for them.

(01:00:00):
You know they have to maketheir decisions and my job as a
dad is to let them know everysingle day that they're loved
and that I'm never goinganywhere.
It doesn't matter what happensor what they do.
They're always my kids and I'llalways love them
unconditionally.
But there's certain things thatare, you know, just an absolute

(01:00:27):
.
You know, note, zero tolerance,do you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
have hope or belief that they will kick it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Yeah, I mean, my youngest son is doing great, my
oldest son.
I always think there's hope,and only because I have so much
exposure to people that havebeat it.
And humans are unbelievablyresilient, just unbelievably.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
We're the most adaptable, resilient species to
have ever walked this earth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
So, yeah, I hope you know I I'm pretty sure he's been
sober for about a year.
You check in often yeah, quitea bit, and you know it's.
We're always hoping for thebest.
That's exactly right.
Well, I for one think thatyou're always hoping for the
best.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
That's exactly right.
Well, I for one think thatyou're a pretty stand-up father.
It's interesting to me, though,that you are the picturesque
father that any child would wantto have.
Right?
It's the cliche of the brokenhome.
Not really the case.
Yes, you had a separation, yourwife left, but that's not a
broken home.
You were still working.
You were working hard for yourfamily, you were taking care of

(01:01:39):
your children, so that's not afault.
That's nothing that you canpinpoint and say oh, it's the
father's fault or the mother'sfault.
It's just that's how life tendsto work out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Yeah, I think it's a.
It's a crazy combination of DNAand you know mental illness on.
You know my dad had mentalillness, my sister's bipolar.
There's a lot of their mom, herfather was bipolar, so there's
a lot of funky DNA in there andwe're still trying to figure

(01:02:11):
that out.
He's likely bipolar.
He's never been diagnosedbecause I think he's just from a
generation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Back in that day, men don't cry.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Yeah, it was.
Oh, your dad's got a nervousstomach.
It's not like, no, my dad hascrippling anxiety, he's got a
nervous stomach, let's feed himsome arsenic Always these things
.
Excuses that were made and Ithink it was just more of the
times.
It was, you know.
So he went.
He's basically gone his wholelife.
He's 80 now, but he's gone kindof undiagnosed and it's led to

(01:02:46):
a, you know, a prettyunfulfilling life, I think, for
him, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Do you speak with him or visit him?
Often I do Lives close he does.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
He lives in the next town over and I've always kind
of been the black sheep in myfamily.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
In what way?

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
I just, I never wanted to live the way that my
parents lived.
We have that in common.
I was bound and determined thatI was just not going to live
that life and I was going to doeverything humanly possible to
make sure that I wasn't.
And it wasn't for materialthings, it was.

(01:03:24):
I didn't want that stress andthat anxiety.
And you know, I rememberChristmases and birthdays.
I knew my parents couldn'tafford, you know, to get
presents, but I would getpresents and it was like it's it
sucks to be, you know, eightyears old and you're stressed
out because you know you'regoing to get a present that your
parents can't afford.
Like an eight year oldshouldn't be thinking about

(01:03:47):
stuff like that.
But uh, you know, we never wenton any vacations.
Uh, we never went to arestaurant.
We, we just, you know, and wecouldn't afford it.
So I get it, but I never wantedto live that way and I knew
very early on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
So I was just absolutely determined to do
things differently, so do youthink that's the basis for your
drive for success?
Is that you just wanted thisbetter life?

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Yeah, that's a part of it.
I also, when I was 40 years old.
This is a crazy story.
You wanna go?

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
into it Absolutely.
Slow down our pace then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
When I was 40 years old, I got what I thought was
the swine flu and I had aninsane fever, crazy high fever.
What?

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
was your number.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Oh, it was like I don't know, 104, 105, something
like that.
For an adult it was crazy high.
So went to the local emergencyroom and they said, yeah, you
have swine flu.
But right before I left theysaid I have this little like
pain in my chest.
I think it's from working out.
And they said, ah, let's do anEKG.

(01:05:00):
And they were like ready todischarge me.
So they did.
And this doctor said came backand he said I've never seen this
before and I don't know what itis, but I think I remember it
from when I was in med schooland it's, I think it's called

(01:05:23):
Brugada.
And he said you know, luckily,the number one Brugada
specialist probably in the worldis Mark Marab at Yale.
And he said why don't you gosee?
You know, Dr Merib.
And I saw Dr Merib and he said,yeah, you've got Brugada
syndrome and let me tell youwhat it is, because I know

(01:05:47):
you're going to go home andGoogle it when you do.
You're going to find out.
It's called SUDS SuddenUnexpected Death Syndrome and
it's the proverbial.
You know, you hear about the 40year old.
They're in great shape, they'rean athlete and they just
dropped dead.
And everyone's like, oh, my God, can you believe that Steve or
Bobby dropped dead and there'sno symptoms and there's no cure?

(01:06:11):
The only thing you can do ishave a pacemaker implanted in
your chest with wires to yourheart.
So right here I have apacemaker.
So I live every day.
I mean, we all live like this.
We all live not knowing whenour last moment is.
But because I have Brugadasyndrome, it could hit me

(01:06:35):
because there's no symptoms atany moment.
So I live life with insaneurgency because, I don't know, I
have an insurance policy,because I have a defibrillator
implanted in me and thathopefully, should anything
happen, would bring me back, butyou never know, would bring me

(01:07:01):
back, but you know, you neverknow.
So it makes you think aboutlife a little bit differently.
Um, you know, I remember growingup.
Uh, we always used to.
You know there were specialoccasions and special occasions
for the mcgregors was.
You know we were going to have.
Uh, you know my mom was goingto not use paper plates.
She was going to use likechinette.
Uh, or you know we were goingto have.
You know my mom was going tonot use paper plates.
She was going to use likeChinette.
Or you know we were going tohave like fake champagne.

(01:07:24):
It was called cold duck andstuff like that.
That was a special occasion.
But my parents, like they, keptstuff for special occasions and
I've lived my life with thephilosophy that every day is a
special occasion, like thismoment is a special occasion.
So I'm not going to hold back onanything, because you never,

(01:07:49):
ever know.
So I say, like, pop thechampagne, start the business
that you want to start, live thelife that you want to live,
hang out with the people thatyou want to hang out with, do
the stuff that matters to you,because every moment is a
special occasion and that youknow.
For me that it's been a gift,because it's just a constant

(01:08:10):
reminder, even though it's notsomething I think about all the
time.
It is a reminder, like everyday when I wake up, because
typically when you have anepisode, it happens when you're
sleeping.
You have episodes.
No, I don't, no, because I'd bedead.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Well, hopefully it would kick in.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Well, hopefully it would kick in, but it's so far
it's been.
You know I'm 56.
So it's been sitting in therefor 16 years just sitting there
waiting.
So it's kind of a crazy.
It's a crazy thing, but itmakes me appreciate every moment
, like this moment that we'rehaving right now, like I'm
exactly where my feet are, thisis where I want to be at this

(01:08:49):
moment and this is meaningful tome.
So it changes your perspectiveon everything.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
I could be present listening to you speak all day
long.
That was incrediblyinspirational, one of the most
inspirational things I've everheard.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
I don't talk about it very often and I think I don't.
It's not because I'm notembarrassed about it you
shouldn't be, but I don't wantto be Scott McGregor.
He's got this insane conditioncalled Brigada syndrome.
Like I don't want that to besynonymous with my name.
I'm perfectly fine telling thestory because it's a.

(01:09:28):
It's a part of who I am and howI live every single day, but I
don't want to be defined by it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Well, you shouldn't be.
It's just another plight of man, of humanity, at the end of the
day.
You're right.
You can cross a street and gethit by a car.
You can slip on some ice, likeDr Atkins right, anything can
happen, but to get hit with that.
I imagine when the doctor toldyou this, that was a wake-up
call.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Yeah, you know, I had two young kids and I'm like,
okay, there's, there's no cure.
I only have one choice get thedefibrillator.
And it was a no brainer to havethe surgery.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
What is the lump exactly?
You said there was a.
There was a lump on the EKG.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if this is creepy for you,
but you can feel it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
That's your defibrillator.
That's my defibrillator?

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
No, but you said, when they went in for an EKG,
what did they see?
They saw a tiny blip on the EKGand Dr Merib said Scott, it's a
miracle.
So brugada is probably one ofthe most misunderstood or not
understood conditions.
Because there's no symptoms, soyou can't study it, because you

(01:10:41):
might have it but you wouldnever know you had it.
Well, what happened is one dayDarren dies and everyone's like,
oh my God, like how this guywas in perfect health, and they
think they never really know.
They think that a lot of thosecases are are Brugada, but it's
so, it's, it's there.
It's almost impossible to study.

(01:11:01):
The only way that that spikeshows up is if.
If I have a super high fever,like if I had an EKG right now,
it wouldn't show up.
Um, but if I had a high fever,that's the only reason it showed
up.
So Dr Merib said it's a miraclethat you said and the pain that

(01:11:21):
I had in my chest was fromworking out.
It had nothing to do withanything other than that.
And he said the fact that adoctor in a walk-in ER would
remember something so obscureand rare from med school and go.
I think you should check thisout.
I think it's this thing calledBrugada syndrome is a miracle.

(01:11:45):
Maybe it's why I'm here today.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Well, I normally like to end the show on some success
notes, inspiration notes, and Ithink this one's a good way to
end it.
You are the thinking back on mylife, over 43 years.
You are the most inspirationalperson I've ever met.
Wow, Hands down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
And I love.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
I love this moment.
Yeah, it means a lot to me.
You are a fantastic human,thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Thank you, and I'm happy you're with us, you have
to just deal with the cards thatyou're dealt, and I never, ever
, I've seen so many people walkaround like a victim and I don't
want to say my kids, their momabandoned them and you know that
may be led to substance abusein my oldest son, or I have this

(01:12:39):
condition, or you know there'sbeen many, many, many crazy
things that have happenedthroughout my life.
I don't want to ever.
I'm not a victim at all.
It is truly.
Adversity is a gift.
It's a gift.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
This episode was made with love by Kathy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
It was seriously.
You can check the tag.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Scott McGregor.
That was fun.
Thank you for taking a hikewith me.
I love you, man.
I would say that's a wrap.
Next time on I Took a Hike.
A harrowing season-endingepisode as we explore the harsh
reality of Daniel Regan'sjourney from literally the
bottom of the rock all the wayto the top of recovery to form

(01:13:23):
new beginnings as the founder ofHealing Us Centers.
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