September 9, 2025 • 57 mins
This special edition episode gathers Anthony Carrano, Rudy Rodriguez, and Eddie Bader to reflect on a year of conversations with leaders in the Microsoft Partner ecosystem. The discussion highlights transformative themes such as trust, specialization, innovation, community building, and the evolving landscape of mergers & acquisitions (M&A).
Key Discussion Points:
• The central role of trust and culture in successful partnerships
• Specialization vs. adaptability: how to balance expertise with client needs
• Best practices for collaborating within the Microsoft partner network
• Growth strategies, including the rise of M&A for smaller partners
• The impact of community, volunteerism, and IMCP’s global network
• Stories of resilience, innovation, and business transformation
Notable Quotes:
“Trust is the currency; culture is the compound interest.”
“A sale-ready business is a better business, even if you never sell.”
“Your brand is built in the community long before it’s built in the boardroom.”
Listener Links / Resource
International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners: Website
Guest:
Eddie Bader (https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddie-bader-670b53119/)
International President of IAMCP
Co-founder of RYZE Partners (https://www.ryze-partners.com/)
Hosts:
Anthony Carrano, Principal at Dunamis Marketing: LinkedIn
Rudy Rodriguez, Principal at Dunamis Marketing: LinkedIn
Dunamis Marketing Corporate Website: Dunamis Marketing
Podcast Website: IAMCP Podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anthony Carrano (00:05):
Welcome to a special edition of Profiles and
Partnership. I'm AnthonyCarrano, and today we're doing
something a little different.Over the past year, we've sat
down with some of the mostinnovative, resilient, and
forward thinking leaders in theMicrosoft partner ecosystem.
We've explored how trust becomescurrency, how specialization
drives growth, how AI is shapingthe way we deliver value, and
(00:27):
how mergers, acquisitions, andglobal collaborations are
rewriting rules of the game.This panel is our chance to step
back, connect the dots, and ask,what have we learned?
What patterns are emerging? Andmost importantly, what's next
for partners in this upcomingyear? Are you ready to join us
on this journey? Then staytuned. We have a great show for
you today.
(00:47):
We have Rudy Rodriguez,cofounder, Dunamis Marketing,
and cohost of this podcast, andEddie Bader, international
president of IAMCP and cofounderat Rise Partners, sharing their
observations and perspectivesthat will leave you with a clear
sense of where the opportunitiesand the challenges are for
partners and where those areheaded. Let's dive in.
(01:08):
Okay, well Eddie and Rudy, I'mreally glad to have you guys.
This is gonna be a fun episode.I can't believe we made it to
25. We've got a year under ourbelt, so welcome.
Eddie Bader (01:19):
Thanks, Anthony. It's good to be here.
Anthony Carrano (01:21):
Excellent. Rudy, I always see you every
time, but it's always still goodto see you, man.
Rudy Rodriguez (01:28):
Alive and well. Still alive and well.
Eddie Bader (01:30):
It's not getting old.
Anthony Carrano (01:32):
That's what for those that are listening, you
know, he didn't reciprocate. SoI don't know. Maybe we gotta
diagnose that outside of this.
Eddie Bader (01:40):
That's episode 27.
Anthony Carrano (01:41):
That's episode 27, that's it.
Rudy Rodriguez (01:43):
I love you, man. I love you.
Anthony Carrano (01:46):
I feel it, man. I feel it. I feel it. Well, what
a year it's been really excitedabout this special episode is
we're going to dive into justkind of reflections on the past
year, that we've observed, whatwe've learned, kind of talking
about, you know, things that weanticipate in the upcoming
twelve months. So withoutfurther ado, just kind of really
(02:06):
want to jump right in.
And one of the big things reallyas we were reflecting on this
past year is that, you know,within the Microsoft partner
ecosystem, consistently just,you know, hearing about trust is
the currency and culture is thecompound interest. Things like
ethical leadership, radicalcandor, and people first values
consistently separate the goodfrom the great. And a question I
(02:26):
have for you guys is, you know,as we've gone through all these
episodes, what's one insightfrom hearing the stories, you
know, from the podcast thatchanged how you approach
partnerships?
Rudy Rodriguez (02:38):
You know, I don't think I've changed my
strategy over the years. One ofthe things that I've always
stressed to, folks at mycompanies and to partners in
IAMCP is that there's a greatopportunity for business. You
know, And, a lot of us havebuilt companies and and you go
(02:58):
through the entire sales andmarketing process, trying to
land business. And sometimesyou're just going to run across
opportunities that are not in inyour in your quiver of services
that you offer. But one of thethings I always used to stress
to to partners whom I met was,if I learned about your special
(03:18):
specializations, then I couldintroduce you to some of my
customers as well.
And that's still a philosophythat I still follow. And I think
partners are more engaged nowand looking for opportunities
because so much time and effortand money gets spent trying to
land new customers that you haveto have a strategy for
(03:40):
partnering with other Microsoftpartners to help you grow your
business. And if you understandhow to do that, then I think the
partners that we run intorealize that that can make up a
pretty good chunk of theirbusiness, probably as much as
30% of their total revenue. Soit's one of the things I
continue to stress is, you know,go out and meet partners, learn
(04:03):
whom you can trust, and workwork with and through those
partners to help you grow yourbusiness. Eddie, how do you feel
about that?
Eddie Bader (04:10):
Yeah, I agree. I think that, you know, some of
these quotes that come to mindfrom so many episodes. So it's
like Natasha, she said, radicalcandor and clear swim lanes turn
partners into long term allies.That means a lot, right?
Anthony Carrano (04:25):
Yeah.
Eddie Bader (04:25):
That says a lot in a very brief sentence. And I
would just say that oftentimesI've heard of situations where,
you know, partners considerthemselves to be competition. I
think there's so much more togain from the cooperation of
(04:47):
working together, identifyingyour swim lanes. This is what
I'm really good at. This is whatyou're really good at.
We put this together. We godifferent places. Right? And I
think medicine has got it down.Right? You go to your your
family doctor. Right? But ifit's something, you know, ears,
(05:07):
nose, and throat related, you goto the ENT. He he he sends you
directly there. It's cardio youknow, heart related, sends you
to a cardiologist.
They all know what theyspecialize in, and there's a
purpose for all of them, andthey tend to have that system
down really well. And I'mexcited to see that this
industry is moving towards that.I think we can move faster, but
(05:28):
it's great to see that. And Ithink all of that, to your point
earlier, Anthony, is built ontrust, right? Knowing that these
folks are I'm connected to theright people. And when I say,
hey, these are the specialistsfor this, that you're gonna get
the best.
Anthony Carrano (05:43):
You know, it's interesting guys say that
because it's as I kind ofventured into this, the thing
that's has really, surprised methe most, and I don't I'm not
really sure why, but just howmuch of an emphasis is was just
just coming through thesestories just about how the
importance of culture, bothinternal importance of the
(06:06):
strong internal culture as wellas, you know, cultural fit, you
know, with know, with yourpartners and that it's more than
just kind of a transaction. Butif you're, wanting it to create
like a long term transformation,right, both, you know, in terms
of, you know, value for theclient and, you know, hopefully
future clients, but then also,yes, changing yourself and
(06:30):
positioning yourself for some ofthose opportunities, you know,
for repeat opportunities andgrowth things that like Rudy was
talking about, just theimportance of culture. And
that's one of the things I justdid not expect to hear, you
know, coming out, you know, inso many of these stories. And
so, you know, I'm not sure. Ithink for me, like the thing
(06:53):
about the, just about thechanging the approach to
partnerships is that just theemphasis on, you know, trying to
find guys of really likeculture, right?
So it's not a matter of justfinding, you know, guys that I
mean, yes, it's important tofind people that you can work
with, right? And that you feelcan provide a good value, you
know, to your customers, butjust the emphasis on a on
(07:15):
cultural fit or how much of theemphasis a cultural fit. So I
thought that was kind of prettycool. As you guys were sharing,
was there any particular episodeor insight, you know, from like,
actually, a specific episodethat stuck with you guys? I know
for me, like one, you know, wasdefinitely it's it's funny
because it was actually the thefirst one.
(07:35):
And I think it served as a realcatalyst for a lot of these was,
when Eric shared greatpartnerships turn challenges
into launch pads forinnovations. And I just thought
as a as a way of just reallythen framing, you know, all
these things, going forward. Andthere was another one, that
(07:56):
really stood out to me wasactually was Aaron in episode
20. And in that this, I'm gonnajust read this where he said
trust is the currency,innovation is the multiplier.
Together, they compound growth.
And I think maybe part of thattoo just because that that just
that thinking about that culturebecause, you know, in
interviewing, these companiesthat are you know very you know
(08:17):
high you know tech aptitudespecialist in their field but
just once again going back tothe things that are the soft
skills and just that currency oftrust. That really stuck with
me.
Eddie Bader (08:30):
Yeah, I like that one too. I was actually thinking
about that and when you said itkind of made me smile, but
something that you were talkingabout in terms of culture, I
think it's really important thatit's not just one person who
acts a certain way or is highlydependable, highly trustable,
but that culture is throughoutthe organization. Whoever you
(08:54):
come in contact with, you'regoing to get the same
expectations are present foreverybody, right? Everybody
feels that way, everybody actsthat way. And I think that's
what makes a difference, right?
Is between if this is ingrainedto the individual versus this
is, you know, part of theirculture. I think that matters a
(09:14):
lot. And I'm excited to see, youknow, we have some great
examples coming out right now.Like in Seattle, they have a
solutions group. This is eightseparate organizations have come
together to build solutionstogether. It's not easy to do.
It takes a lot of effort andthere's gotta be a lot of trust
and openness in those dialoguesand conversations and really
(09:35):
working together to put outsolution for clients. You know
to work any opportunity youreally have to be on the same
page there and I think that's agreat example.
Rudy Rodriguez (09:49):
Yeah that's interesting to find out about
the Seattle Solutions Group. Youknow, one of the things that I
learned in all these episodeswas how do you choose a partner?
You know, that was the onequestion we always asked. How do
you choose a partner? So, ofcourse, trust is one thing.
Technical specializations isanother one. But the most
interesting thing was, becausewe've done this on a global
(10:11):
level, was people are the sameacross the world. There isn't
that much difference. And that'sone of the things, you know,
having been in this business along time, you develop
unconscious biases sometimes.Oh, this person or this country
is gonna affect do business thisway.
Then you really get to talk tothem and know them, and they
(10:32):
don't. They follow soundbusiness principles, sound
technical principles, and goodpeople skills. And and that
leads to trust. And that'sreally, really important. And
that's the one thing I noticedbecause we've talked to people
from all over the world, andit's the commonality of the
human spirit and and ethics andand just the spirit of the IAMCP
(10:56):
in in a very ethicalorganization, a very technically
astute, group of partners thatare all striving to deliver
better solutions for ourcustomers.
Anthony Carrano (11:10):
Now that's so true, especially like, I mean,
you talk about was just all thefolks we've interviewed. I mean,
we've interviewed everybody froma lot of different countries,
probably about a dozen differentcountries, different partner
types, various sizes. That's,it's interesting because that's,
you know, just thinking back,you know, even just to like the
(11:31):
first, you know, first questionis just the diversity in the
community. Right? But to yourpoint, the shared commonality
around so many things.
And just while you were whileyou were sharing, it kind of
reminded me of there was a quotethat Suresh gave. It was in
episode 10 where, and I mean,is, this is a great line. So
(11:55):
Suresh, if you're listening,this was fantastic where you
said your brand is built in thecommunity long before it's built
in the boardroom. Right? And so,you know, to your point about,
you know, with the with theethics and the quality work,
and, you know, the delivering,you know, like you said, it's
it's building that relation,that brand in that, you know,
(12:16):
community of try-
I think that's what makes itbecause IAMCP members, I mean,
they're not going to toleratepeople who are not mindful of
building their brand in thecommunity and just, you know,
they'll, I don't know if you'll,Eddie, don't know if he
officially kick anybody out ifthey're just become
transactional, but theydefinitely don't reap the
benefits. Think, you know, thepartner collaborations.
Eddie Bader (12:39):
Yeah. Well, there is a there is a mechanism for
removal. We won't get into thattoday, but I'll just say that it
doesn't happen often, thankgoodness. But there's something
just I mean, these arepartnerships or relationships.
They're like friendships, right,between businesses.
But they are, behind thebusinesses are people. And I
(13:02):
think, you know, when it's allsaid and done, people have to,
you know, we talked about thisyou know, like, and trust, but
if you see somebody acting in acertain way that doesn't align
with you, you tend to just tomove away from them, right? And
so we may not move somebody outof the community, but they may
not thrive because nobody'sgonna wanna work with them
(13:27):
because of the way they approachbusiness. And I'll also say that
one of the mostpowerful, you know, we live in a
highly virtual space right now,but I still think one of the
most powerful things about thiscommunity, other communities, is
really getting face to face withpeople. Those conversations you
(13:48):
have, like even if they're at aconference, we had Illuminate in
Dallas in March and we haveanother one coming up in EMEA,
but those times and evenInspire, you know, or WPC before
that, those you see the samepeople. So people that live, you
know, like, you know, tenminutes away from me.
I might not talk to as much, butwhen you're in that conference,
(14:10):
you have three or four days,maybe five days altogether doing
stuff. You learn about thosepeople. You learn about who they
are, their tendencies. You buildthis rapport with them, and that
goes a long way. If we couldfigure out a way to accelerate
that virtually, I think it canhappen virtually, but in person,
(14:32):
it's just off the charts the wayit happens. I think that's core
to building, maintaining andstrengthening relationships and
partnerships.
Anthony Carrano (14:44):
Well, I know we've talked a lot about trust
and specialization. I know itwas definitely a big reoccurring
theme in a lot of the episodes.Let me ask you guys from what
both just like you observed fromthese partner stories, right?
Specifically, you know, fromthese partner stories, what were
some of the best practicesaround trust and specialization
(15:05):
have you seen emerge as keys tosuccess?
Eddie Bader (15:08):
I'll jump in on this one. I think sometimes the
partners feel like, hey, if Ispecialize, then I'm gonna be
losing out on all this otherbusiness, right? If I don't take
everything that comes my way.And I think it's just the
opposite. I think you becomeknown for being the expert in
this.
Go back to that medical analogy,right? I am the cardiologist.
(15:32):
I'm the ENT. I'm the top in myparticular field. And I think
Joe Khalaf, he even talked aboutthat leads to better margins
too, right?
You're an expert. I think weshouldn't shy away from being
experts. Even if we'repartnering, you you wanna have
(15:55):
that person and that team thatcan come in and just nail it.
Right? And there's a lot ofvalue for that to other partners
and to the customers when it'sall said and done.
Rudy Rodriguez (16:05):
I'll take a little bit different angle on
this one because specializationsis so important. One of the
things, since we just finishedworking on nine partner of the
year stories, I really learnedall about some of the
specializations that some of ourpartners have and how committed
(16:26):
they are to being the best inthe industry and and how they
can deliver significant value totheir customers. So whether
you're working with partner topartner or, again, developing
your specializations, this cantake your business up to the
next level because now you'reseen as a technical specialist,
(16:49):
a business a business leader, athought leader. And guess what?
You now partner with Microsoft,which is what a lot of people
ask us in the IAMCP.
How do I get the leads? One,prove how good you really are,
find that business, and thenpartner with Microsoft by taking
specific leads to them as well.In in years past, that's how we
(17:12):
built our business was we wewould go out and find large
enterprise accounts who neededspecific particular help, and we
would enlist Microsoft's help inhelping us land that business.
But we had the technicalexpertise to drive that
business. And we worked togetherto drive licensing revenue for
Microsoft, implementationrevenue for our companies, and
(17:36):
you see partners doing that.
And and and again, thespecializations prove you can do
it. So Eddie mentioned JoeKhalaf. You know, he's got a
couple of MVPs on his staff. Ourgood friend AJ in in Houston is
another one, you know, MVPs onhis dynamics practice. And
there's there's a company I workwith here in Austin. They have
(17:58):
11 MVPs on their staff. That'shuge. That's huge. And they they
partner with Microsoft onbusiness. So people say, how do
I get those leads fromMicrosoft?
You have to become really goodat what you do. So invest in
your company, invest inyourself, invest in your
company, invest in your peopleskills, technical and people
(18:23):
skills as well. And that willhelp you with your
specializations and really drivethose margins that you're
looking for.
Anthony Carrano (18:30):
That's excellent. That's excellent. You
know, as I think about that,like some of the best practice
of just kind of like in additionto what you guys are sharing
some of the best practices, Ithink about like some of the
like the qualitative teamfactors. And it's interesting
that this phrase came up severaltimes. I mean, came up like I
(18:51):
know, you know, Eddie, you hadmentioned Natasha, you know,
Reynolds, you know, she did anearly episode, you know, I also
know that, you know, JerryPower, you know, as well
mentioned in the just thetalking about clear, you know,
swim lanes, right?
And they have clear swim lanes.There's the, you know, you've
got the proactive, you know, thethe communication. I think the
(19:13):
radical candor was the word youused earlier, you know, and then
you have that mutualaccountability just, you know,
to, you know, as part of some ofthose best practices, you know,
for success. So I thought thosewere, those were really key and
just, you know, and then anotherkind of like a reoccurring like
theme I as I think about this,best practices is that it
(19:34):
doesn't happen by accident,right? I mean, if you approach
it very haphazard and you'reambiguous, it's going to be a
disaster, right?
And so every, you know, everyone of our guests just
emphasizes the importance of,you know, of being that like,
you know, true partnership andcollaborations and just kind of
luck. It doesn't just happen,but you have to be deliberate
(19:55):
and you have to design it, youknow, to execute, you know,
accordingly to kind of get thoseresults. And so I thought that
was pretty interesting. I I dowant to there was something I
was said earlier, you know, justabout, you know, the importance
of, you know, specialization andniching. How you know, and this
did come up in a few times is,you know, what have you guys
observed, you know, and justeven reflecting on these stories
(20:18):
about seem like balancing beinga niche expert with, you know,
with, you know, stayingadaptable. And what I mean by
that is responsive, like, to theneeds of of the customer. So
what are some things like, canyou guys speak to that?
Eddie Bader (20:34):
I would say if I'm understanding you correctly,
you know, I'm a specialist, butmaybe now my customer is asking
me something that's might beoutside of my wheelhouse. Is
that fair to say? Yeah, I thinkyou have to stay true to
yourself, right? That is thefirst thing that comes to my
(20:55):
mind when I hear that is that'spart of the opportunity, right?
I think if I'm really dedicated,if we're gonna do all the things
we just talked about, right?
Really focus on our specialty,really, you know, our skilling,
our people skills, everything isis pointed in a certain
direction and it's it's veryexact the the right thing to do
(21:18):
is is find somebody who's doingthat with this other request
right and partner in my opinionright there are times if you're
big enough maybe you can have afew specializations but a lot of
our partners that we come intocontact with it's probably
they're suited to having asingle focus Right? That that's
(21:41):
my take. I I always think of ifit's outside of my wheelhouse,
let's find the right person forthat because ultimately, it's in
the best interest of the overallsolution, the the customer.
Anthony Carrano (21:53):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Rudy Rodriguez (21:54):
Oh, that's that's interesting, Eddie, in
that I've been in the channelfor over thirty years now. In in
the 1990s, you could doeverything. That was that was
the one that was the the onemantra in our company was, sure.
We can do that. No problem.
You can't do that today. Youhave to be much more truthful
(22:15):
and honest about yourcapabilities, but but and
understanding where where yourlimitations are and but
understand that continue tobuild the trust relationship
with the customer and say, Idon't do this, but I know
someone who can, and then set upthose introductions. However you
(22:35):
do it, whether you pass it ondirectly to somebody else or,
you know, the thing is if you'vebuilt that trust relationship,
that customer is gonna say, youknow, I just want one person to
manage this process. So how canyou help me with that? And
establish that relationship withcustomers is how you can be that
one person, that moment of truthfor them, and you manage those
(22:56):
projects whether you know thetechnology or not.
But you manage it because youunderstand their business. You
understand what their motivesand motivations are, what
they're trying to achieve, andyou can find the right partner
to help them implement thetechnology that's going to help
them and you're justimplementing the right
solutions. So I think that'sreally, really important is to
(23:19):
establish that that thatbusiness relationship. It's so,
so important to to to a businessowner or to a decision maker as
to why they should choose you.And I think that that that whole
thing when you may not havethose specializations, you still
know people.
And that's what the real valueof of IAMCP comes in. You know,
(23:40):
when we founded IAMCP, we wasfounded on four principles,
partnering, advocacy, community,and education. We shortened that
to three three topics later on,but because people couldn't
remember all four. But the theimportant part the important
part was was, you know,partnering. How am I going to
partner?
And how and but you have tounderstand that partnering is is
(24:04):
has multiple multiple aspects toit. There's partnering with
other partners and partneringwith your client and building
trust relationships both ways.
Eddie Bader (24:14):
Yeah. I I was just gonna say something on that too
because we were talking abouttrust in the context of trust
amongst partners, but there'strust amongst the partner and
the client as well, and I thinkthat's just as important. I
think the idea may be overlookedor underrated, but when a client
(24:34):
comes to you and they ask youfor help and you tell them, Hey,
that's not me. I I have somebodywho would do that and is much
better at it than I am. Thatwhat you've done there is you
just you just started building adeeper relationship.
You're admittedly opening. Youopen about what you can and
(24:56):
can't do, what your capabilitiesare, and the fact that you want
the best for them and the bestin this case is bringing
somebody else in to help themwith this. That goes a long way.
Right? You're starting to submita very long term relationship by
doing that.
Anthony Carrano (25:11):
And I think that kind of circles back around
to, you know, when you're, whenyou're known for, you know, for
being an expert or that trust.And I think, you know, go back
to that quote from, you know,Suresh about that's part of
building your brain in thecommunity. Like, you're like,
okay, this person is honest.They're easy to work with.
They're good to work with.
They're, you know, world classand in, you know, these these
(25:32):
things. People are gonna wanna,you know, the one they're gonna
remember you. You're gonna standout, you know, for these things
that you're world class in, butthey're also wanna, you know,
you'll be like attracted, youknow, they'll be attracted to
you as they wanna help theirclients who might need some of
those things that you're worldclass and that you're not. So
(25:52):
staying true to yourself, Ithink your point makes you
really kind of stand out andgrow. Let's talk a little bit
about kind of about growth.
I mean, I know, you know, we'vetalked a lot about, you know,
just about innovation and trust,you know, growth a lot of times.
I mean, sometimes it can meanlike, you know, organic,
(26:12):
sometimes it can mean, you know,m and a. There's we've talked a
lot about partnership, it couldbe marketing. Let's explore what
it takes to really kind of growwithout losing, I guess, your
edge and without, you know,losing, you know, being true to
who you really are.
Eddie Bader (26:27):
Yeah. I'm actually really interested in in talking
about what we've what we'veobserved, you know, in that
context in terms of, you know,what are the what are some of
the biggest changes or shiftsyou've seen in the the Microsoft
ecosystem, you know, this year?Things are constantly changing,
but what stands out to you guysthe most?
Anthony Carrano (26:49):
Well, I wanna defer to Rudy to answer this
first because he's been therefor thirty years. So he's got a
lot of perspective.
Eddie Bader (26:56):
So you keep saying that, and then you wonder why he
doesn't respond to you at thebeginning of the show. No. He
didn't have his thirty years.I'm teasing you.
Anthony Carrano (27:06):
He said the thirty year number. I'm not
outing his age.
Eddie Bader (27:09):
I'm teasing you.
Anthony Carrano (27:11):
Nothing but respect.
Rudy Rodriguez (27:13):
Hey. As I tell everybody, not only am I older,
I'm old and slow now. So thatthat makes a difference. But you
know what? You know, the thething that, the challenges grow
I mean, the thing that drivesgrowth is is really kinda it you
know, it there's so manydifferent ways I can tackle
(27:35):
this.
Alright. So one, I rememberyears ago years ago, when when
it first became the cloudpartner program, you know, the
Microsoft networking program,and then became the cloud
partner program. And, you know,now we're in the AI partner
program. But I remember talkingto partners and said, what are
you doing to start changing yourorganization? You you have to do
(27:56):
this every five to seven yearswhen you're a Microsoft partner.
You have to start lookingforward. And Microsoft actually
gives you quite a few tipsseveral years in advance. Hey.
We're going to move here. Sowhen it became the cloud partner
program, what are you going todo to sell licensing?
And I started in the BPOS days,which was really difficult
(28:17):
because, one, the product barelyworked. And two, now we're
having to sell licenses to thisinstead of being under the
Microsoft Open program selling,you know, software boxes. And
and those partners who adaptedand saw the writing on the wall
made a made a lot of money. Andnow in one of our companies, we
(28:37):
got to the point where we'regoing, hey, we're clearing $50 a
month just in licensing. Just inlicensing because we adapted
early on.
I think it was 2013 or somethinglike that when we did it. And
and it was difficult. And, youknow, what we did is we went to
Microsoft, give us the leadsthat you can't close. And we
were getting a couple 100 a weekand closing about a third of
(29:01):
those.
Yeah. Yeah. So what how did wedo that? One, we adapted. We we
used teams to deliver, highquality webinars on how to use
the technology and implement itand what it was going to take.
We built a well rounded serviceabout training people around the
(29:23):
use of the software and how youcould leverage each individual
part and how then from a salesperspective, we showed companies
how it was going to save themmoney and and mitigate risk in
their organization.
And I'll give you one example.We had a state agency here in
Austin, had 15,000 people on,GroupWise, Novell GroupWise. So
(29:47):
this is going way, way back,guys. But they were moving to,
you know, Microsoft March, whichwas at the time, you know,
fairly new. And we sat in thewar room with the the client's
implementation team.
And here's the challenge theygave us. Can you migrate Can you
migrate 15,000 people in ninetydays? And I could tell you
(30:13):
pretty much everyone in the roomwent, what? There was a couple
of other words beyond that. Butthat was what was one of the
words.
And we said, alright, we've beengiven a challenge. Now, how are
we going to do it? So one wasputting in the right team, and
we used nothing but certifiedpeople, certified trainers to
(30:34):
help them launch that. And Ithink it was Microsoft Link at
the time, not not Teams, by theway. And we we took a look at
things.
What are the things that arechallenging this organization
the most? They had over 3,000backlogged help desk tickets.
3,000. And I said, our first jobis to get that down because
(30:54):
these people have other issues.Now when we implement this,
we're gonna target people andtarget groups, and we did it.
And by doing that and answeringtheir questions and then setting
up a knowledge base and settingup our help desk, we took the
help desk from 37 people down totwo two people and cleared up
3,000 tickets. By usingcertified help, use of using the
(31:19):
technology, showing them how touse it, providing it to our
clients to do it while workingon the implementation on a
nightly basis. And I could tellyou, it was a lot of, eighteen
hour days and weekends too. Butwe accomplished that. And guess
what?
Microsoft well, I mean, we wewere a subcontractor to
Microsoft Premiere Services. Andthey came back to us and said,
(31:43):
what else do you wanna try? Andmy answer was a lot of alcohol
and drugs right now because I'mexhausted, and I need sleep. And
and they let me have a week'sworth of sleep before we moved
on to the next project. But it'sunderstanding the scope of how
you want to help a client andcoming up with the strategy.
(32:06):
And your strategy is you have todevelop a strategy for
implementation, a strategy forpartnering, and and then the
strategy for communicating yoursuccesses along the way because
you can anticipate issues andproblems along the way as well.
And if you get out in front ofthem, you're just gonna be much
more successful. So that's along answer.
Eddie Bader (32:27):
So we can edit that to Coca Cola and candy later.
Right? No.
Anthony Carrano (32:35):
The title of this episode is Rudy Rodriguez,
my life of Drugs and Alcohol.
Rudy Rodriguez (32:41):
Good to know.
Anthony Carrano (32:44):
It's it's in the it's in the transcript. It's
official.
Eddie Bader (32:48):
Well, they get more subscribers. I'll tell you that
was true. That's it.
Rudy Rodriguez (32:51):
There's one beer, one bourbon, and one
scotch, Eddie. Right. There yougo.
Anthony Carrano (32:56):
That's it. You you asked an interesting
question about like the biggestshift you've seen in the
Microsoft ecosystem, andShannon, I know we're gonna
spend a little bit of time, youknow, here later obviously
talking about AI because can'tget out of answer, you know,
that question without talkingabout AI. I know we're going to
talk about that a little bitlater. I think for me the thing,
and this is, it's just myperspective. It's just the rise,
(33:19):
of just seeing like M&Aactivity as a as a mainstream,
as a growth strategy.
You always think about it interms of like, oh, it's, you
know, large players like the bigcompanies or, you know, the big
hedge funds, these, you know,these big private equity groups,
but that's actually that's, Imean, yes, they're doing their
M&A activity, but it's alsoa lot of the mid market, and
(33:43):
smaller partners, are in theM&A game. And that part has
been really surprising to seejust the, I mean, just the
amount of volume, and some ofthe reasons, behind some of
that, has been reallyfascinating for me to see. So
I've really enjoyed, you know,learning about that.
Eddie Bader (34:02):
Yeah. I think I think that's a great transition
too. We have got an excellentpartner with IAMCP who provides
us with the IAMCP marketplace,which is IT Exchange. And we've
been it's been awesome to havethem on the the podcast a few
times already. So in talkingabout mergers and acquisitions
and you mentioned strategicexits or that process isn't just
(34:28):
reserved for the largercompanies anymore and I think
success and strengthening yourposition, it's also based a lot
on culture and readiness.
I was just curious yourperspective on since this is
kind of a recurring theme,M&A is always out there.
What do you think smallerpartners need to understand
(34:50):
about this trend and how canthey use this process to improve
their organization?
Anthony Carrano (34:57):
Yeah, I know Rudy and I both have a lot of
because we actually both soldour previous companies. We've
also had the benefit of, youknow, being in these, in these
interviews. Rudy, are cool if Itake this one first?
Rudy Rodriguez (35:09):
Go for it.
Anthony Carrano (35:11):
Yeah. So the thing that really, I mean, in
terms of like, what do you thinkabout like with the smaller
partners is that a big theme.And there was a quote by Ian
Pavlik. It was an episode ninewhere he said a sale ready
business is a better business,even if you never sell. And I
was just like, that's a reallygood way to think about it.
(35:33):
And that if you're doing thethings that you know, you need
to do to sell your business,you're building a better
company, right? And so like youwin either way, you know, your
employees win, your customerswin, you as the owner win, by
just doing some of those, youknow, critical, you know,
things, to get your businessready to sell. And you're going
(35:54):
to, you're operating andperforming better anyway. And
that just that M&Areadiness, it's, it's, it's
like, it's almost like it's agood discipline. It's like a
practice that even if you're notselling that you should be doing
the things you need to do tobuild operational health.
Is that, I mean, there's a lotof things that I would share,
(36:17):
but that's probably the biggestone that stood out to me. And as
I think back on, I mean, like,you know, our current company,
but I even think of my previous,you know, company, I was like,
oh man, I really, you know, Icould have applied that in a lot
of different areas. And it wouldjust be interesting to see what
(36:38):
some of the outcomes would havebeen a little bit differently if
I would have applied that ownadvice.
Rudy Rodriguez (36:43):
Part on that, Anthony. It really is about, do
I really know my business thatwell? And am I documenting my my
business processes? So that'sone of the things that that we
used to do was we documented ourentire, you know, KPIs for the
entire organization on what wewanted to achieve. So besides a
(37:04):
budget, which everyone shouldhave, but we had a strategy that
we followed where we would do astrategic planning session every
year and then follow that on aon a monthly or quarterly basis.
But on top of that, wedocumented our sales and
marketing processes. So we knewwhat campaigns we're gonna be
running. We we had certainbehavioral items that we had for
(37:27):
our sales teams. How manyappointments, how many
proposals, how much this,etcetera, etcetera. So we became
really good at being able topredict our revenue as well.
At the beginning of every month,I would look at the current
month and so if we were at a105% of quota, we were gonna hit
quota that month. You know,nothing worse than than a sales
(37:49):
organization who's gonna try tohit quota, and they don't know
where they are at the beginningof the month. You have to know
exactly where you are. And thenon top of that, we also built a
training plan. So we took allour consultants and said, how am
I gonna train these people?
What skills do I want them tohave? And we had tier one, two,
(38:09):
and three type level people. Andso the amount of money that we
would spend on training thosepeople, because as I mentioned
earlier on, was investing in theorganization. And we had a
process that we documented andsaid, hey, our technical people
will be billable 70 to 80% ofthe time and 20% of their two
thousand eighty hours in a yearwill be spent on training. And
(38:33):
so we had to manage those peopleto continuously grow their
skills.
But that's how we were able tokeep people for a long period of
time because we kept advancingtheir skills and we kept
building the successorgeneration underneath them. So
we were able to do that. Sodocumenting your processes. So
as you grow, that's reallyimportant because a lot of
people in this business startout because they have a client
(38:57):
who gets a business and you knowhow to implement it. Now, where
do I go from here? It is aprocess and it is a strategy.
Anthony Carrano (39:04):
Well too, and then when you mentioned about
the importance about thepredictable, you know, revenue,
I mean, that's where, you know,I know Tim's talked a lot about
this, as well as just that likethe valuations are stronger for
those that have that reoccurringrevenue that defensible IP. So
like to your point, if you gotyour recurring revenue, you kind
(39:25):
of know this is where I'm at atthe start of every month before,
you know, I even have to open upthe doors, you know, day one,
just so the importance of, youknow, for these smaller partners
to, I mean, yeah, it's, youknow, you chase the big
projects, right? But it's,there's something to be said
for, know, you're building that,you know, getting those, those
incremental reoccurring revenue,Right? And then, you know, how
(39:48):
that pays off, you know, bigdividends, you know, over time.
Rudy Rodriguez (39:51):
Your company is a set of building blocks. And do
I understand what each one ofthose blocks does? And that's
really, really important. So ifyou don't have a good CFO or
accountant helping you with withthe business metrics, get one.
Same with sales and salesmanagement.
Understand your processes thereand and what what performance
(40:14):
metrics are important to helpingyou grow that company. And then
last but definitely not least isyour technical expertise. How am
I going to grow that technicalexpertise and continue to grow
it because that's the success ofyour business?
Eddie Bader (40:29):
Yeah. I was just gonna say it's I think we're
hitting on some recurringthemes, right? And Tim also
mentioned in M&A that techis easy. Right? It's the people
and culture that make or breakthe deal.
It's making sure that you have aculture that prioritizes
skilling, that prioritizesdocumentation and processes and
repeatable things that you cancount on and it's not because
(40:51):
those things provide consistencyin an operation. Right? If you
if you have all those thingsdocumented, even if you should
have some turnover, you stillare performing at a very
consistent level. And anybusiness that can do that as
opposed to going, you know,peaks and valleys, it ultimately
is gonna be more valuable longterm. Right?
(41:14):
So, yeah. I think this is alleverything we've we've been
talking about so far is is kindof like a build in this
conversation. It's cool. So Iknow we talked about M&A and
I also wanted to talk about theevolving partner roles within
(41:35):
organizations and we seepartners acting as trusted
advisors which has been going onfor forever as well as ecosystem
integrators and we have thiskind of movement from, you know,
transactional totransformational partnerships.
I think the focus is more movingtowards, you know, the
(41:56):
transformational long termrelationships. And I was just
going to ask both of you, youknow, if you had a bit on one of
these emerging roles, advisor,educator, innovator, which one
would you put all your money inon and why is that?
Rudy Rodriguez (42:16):
Let me go first on that one because you can't
pick the same one. So soinnovator. Innovator because of
AI. AI if you are an innovatorand and and especially with the
advent of AI, and you can youcan innovate, but do it in a
(42:40):
trusted, ethical way becausethere's some things that can go
wrong with AI as we all know. Itis if you can innovate because
you will become a trustedadviser from that because you
understand an organization'sbusiness processes, what the
what the, key stakeholders'motivations are, and and how how
(43:07):
to implement the technology toexecute all of this.
And you can't be afraid to havethe tough discussions with
stakeholders about why certainthings are happening and how you
can help drive their their theiryou know, help drive and meet
their business goals. Becausebusiness goals don't change
(43:28):
much. Right? You have to driverevenue, mitigate risk, and and,
I'm having a Rick Perry momentforgetting the third one right
now, which I'm always talkingabout. But it's one of those
things that if you can if youcan be an innovator and show
show companies how you can, youknow, drive their growth and and
(43:50):
and while mitigating the risk,it's going to help them so much
and they start trusting you andsay, all right, help us some
more.
And you do that throughinnovation and you will develop
the business expertise to be agood technical advisor as well.
Anthony Carrano (44:07):
Yeah, Eddie, I'd like to answer D, all the
above.
Eddie Bader (44:14):
I know, I know, but pick one, he said.
Anthony Carrano (44:19):
That's a tough one. You know, I think I guess
I'd probably then go I mean, youknow, I can I can actually I
think I can argue for all three,but I would think probably just
go then with the advisor becauseif it's the, you know, kind of
piggybacking on theme of liketrust and specialization? So if
(44:39):
I'm like, I'm gonna be worldclass in X, I'm gonna be, you
know, the preeminent X, youknow, expert in X, then, I could
provide that type of, know, bethat go to advisor, you know,
for my partners on behalf oftheir customers. And so I would
probably but it's gonna bleedover into because you're gonna
(45:00):
be doing some education. You'redefinitely gonna be doing
innovation.
So since you're forcing me topick one, I'll pick I'll pick a
advisor.
Eddie Bader (45:12):
That's cool. I have to lean towards Rudy and
innovator myself. I I've alwaysthought there's you know, when
you look at technology, there'sthere's what it is and what it
can be. And that what it can beis up to the individual that's,
you know, using it and wieldingit. Right?
(45:33):
Just like a chainsaw. In myhands, a chainsaw cuts down a
tree. A chainsaw in somebodyelse's hand creates ice
sculptures. Right? And that's abig there's a big difference in
the in outcomes of those things.
Right? Same tool used verydifferently for different know,
or at least for differentpurposes. I think that's where
some of the innovation comes outis because when we hand we get
(45:56):
handed this technology, gethanded AI, we get handed, you
know, all these things that havebeen built. We're told what it
what it is. We're told what itdoes, and it's up to us to
figure out what it can be, whatit can do, right, outside of
its, you know, given purpose.
And and I think that's where youstart finding special things,
(46:17):
but that's just my take on that.
Anthony Carrano (46:19):
I like that analogy with the chainsaw.
That's that's good. I'm gonnause that.
Eddie Bader (46:26):
From alcohol and drugs to chainsaws. We're
covering the whole gamut today.
Don't use it at the same timethough. That's the message.
Anthony Carrano (46:37):
Not don't operate the chainsaw while under
the influence of alcohol anddrugs.
Rudy Rodriguez (46:42):
It would be an interesting TikTok video.
Eddie Bader (46:45):
Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know about around
you guys, but they have likewhiskey bars with axe throwing.
I'm like, that seems like ahorrible combination to me.
Yeah. I I want to see it but Idon't I want to see it from a
safe distance. You know what Imean?
Anthony Carrano (47:06):
Mhmm.
Eddie Bader (47:07):
Well, as the advisor, I would say, yeah,
don't do that.
Rudy Rodriguez (47:14):
I would say get some education before doing
that. Because otherwise you'lldo like I did. And I threw it so
hard and low that it camebouncing right back at me. And
it was like, everybody behind mewent scrambling at the same
time. So it can be dangerous.
Eddie Bader (47:32):
Well, I've actually gone the innovator route because
at Costco, they had theseplastic axes that you can throw
against this board and kind ofacts like a, you know, like a
Velcro dartboard. It's notVelcro, but it still sticks and
every there's no cutting edgesand everybody stays safe. If
your choice is to consume, youcan consume safely. So I think
(47:55):
you covered all aspects of thatone.
Anthony Carrano (47:57):
Nice. Nice.
Eddie Bader (47:58):
So, you know, one of the reasons why we're here
doing this podcast is is reallyaround this community, IAMCP.
Right? And I think for a lot ofthings, we know it to be, you
know, our the connect, learn,and grow. I connect to people,
you know, educate yourself onMicrosoft ecosystem.
But on technology, on how topartner, you know, we tell
(48:22):
people to partner or network,and we assume they know how to
do it. But it's actually a skillset that you have to to develop,
and there there's a great way togo about it. And so we show
those things and then grow,right? Grow your business, grow
as an individual, grow yourskill set. I think IAMCP has
been credited with opening a lotof doors and making a lot of
(48:42):
connections globally And I thinkthat's a wonderful thing.
And and we have a bunch ofreferences from different
episodes from the first 25episodes, and we have more to
share in the next 25 episodes. Iwas just kinda curious on your
thoughts on that is, you know,what have you seen or have you
seen IAMCP members help movefrom just plain networking to,
(49:08):
you know, actual businessoutcomes? What have you what is
like, a real cool partner story?Whether it's it was captured in,
you know, one of these, youknow, podcast episodes or not,
what is what is one story thatstands out for you guys?
Rudy Rodriguez (49:20):
Alright. So I'm gonna take up some time here. I
I've actually seen quite a few,And and it was it was
interesting. There, you know, Ijust see see them almost on a
daily basis. I've beenevangelizing IAMCP for thirty
years now.
And and that's one of the thingsthat that I've worked with with
(49:42):
so many different partners ineither helping them with
particular business issues thatthey're having to help them grow
their business or helping themdrive and create their
partnerships, to to grow theirbusiness or to partner with key
people to develop a product thatcan turn into a business. So
(50:05):
I've I've been on all three onall three. And so one of the
most successful ones I've seenwas working with a former
president of IAMCP, RandySteinle, and a good friend of
mine, and working with him andputting together all the pieces
to to turn into his HIPAA HIPAAtype, organization, his grading
(50:25):
organization that he did, andbuilding that software services
where he grew that into amultimillion dollar business and
turned around and sold that.That's a great way to because he
came to me and says, can youhelp me with this? Alright.
Well, let's take a look at theorganization and see where this
is not working. Let's figure outwhat's not working. And he was
approaching everything from astraight sales perspective. No.
(50:47):
Let's look at the technology aswell.
Who's going to do that? Who arethe key people and what are
their what are their credentialsto to solidify and verify that
this is gonna be a solidproduct? And then identifying
the key markets, the the keyplayers, etcetera, and then
identifying key players acrossthe country who could help them
resell that service. So goingthrough MSPs who were servicing
(51:12):
doctors' offices, hospitals, andclinics, things like that, who
also wanted to make sure theirclients were HIPAA compliant.
And so through learning how tobuild all that stuff was people
working together to build asolution that was going to drive
and it turned into a verysuccessful business.
So that's one. That's one. I sawone this week where our our good
(51:35):
friend, John Nicolau, put out aa thing. He said, hey. We've got
a client who is spending xamount of dollars on Azure per
month and, you know, howMicrosoft's moving to direct
CSPs.
Any of you out there want to dothat? So I knew a couple and
turned both those partners on toJohn who's now working with them
to see if they can drive thatbusiness because it's a
(51:56):
substantial amount of revenue.And, you know, I've also worked
with, you know, again, manyother partners is to how do how
do we put help people put thistogether? And I think having
been a member of IMCP and andhaving been in multiple roles
that you learn a lot about theorganization and about the
players in the organization andhow you can connect those people
(52:19):
with each other. And then asthose people who know me well
enough, I'll I'll make you learnthis Microsoft stuff.
You have to learn it becausethat's what's gonna drive your
business, and that's what'sgonna help you grow your
business. So those are someexamples. I have a bunch of
them. I wish I could tell youall of them, but it but it's a
bunch of them and and could bevery successful. And I'm sure
(52:41):
you do too, Eddie.
Eddie Bader (52:42):
Yeah. For context, that that that opportunity to
move to CSP that Rudy wastalking about, that wasn't a
small opportunity. There was,like, $25,000 a month that they
were talking about in anopportunity there. It's pretty,
pretty amazing that you can findthat community.
Anthony Carrano (53:01):
Yeah, know for me, like as I think about our
episodes in particular, therewas one that's always stood out
to me and it was actually it wasa story that Carl Mazzanti in
episode 16 that he shared aboutit was in he was talking about
in 2012. So it's been a while,right? But it was when Hurricane
(53:22):
Sandy came in and hit and itjust I mean, it just caused so
much, you know, devastationthere. And I think maybe part of
it that resonated with mebecause of like my extended
family is all, you know, fromNew York as well. So I know a
lot of them were impacted, buthe just talked about, you know,
Carl specifically was talkingabout, you know, just the power
of IMCP even, I mean, back then.
(53:44):
Right? And, you know, where theyhad hundreds and hundreds of
servers go down for so manycustomers. And, I mean, here he
is. He's standing like, youknow, knee deep in, you know,
sewage and, you know, having touse baby wipes because there's
like no running water. And whatdoes he do?
You know, I mean, they had, likeI said, all these customers, you
(54:04):
know, were were were devastated.They had he was talking about
how they had, you know, partnersfrom multiple like states, you
know, come who were notaffected, you know, by the
hurricane come to help out. Andthey were able to get every
customer restored within, youknow, seventy two hours just
because they had, you know, allthese IAMCP partners, you know,
(54:28):
drive in and and help them out.And I thought that was kind of a
cool story, right? Because youknow, a lot of the stories that
we I mean, you know, where thestories that all the a lot of
the other stories we heard were,you know, they're it's all very
proactive. They're great storiesof creating value. This is one
where you had a crisis, youknow, hit and it's just reactive
(54:48):
and just kind of like the rapidresponse of the community and I
thought that was pretty cool. Sothat one kind of stands out to
me in particular.
Eddie Bader (54:57):
Yeah, I'm very, very proud of this community for
a lot of reasons but especiallyin those times of need.
Community shows up for oneanother, you know, especially if
something happens and it's notunique to us, but it's nice to
know that we have that. That'spart of our culture is go out of
(55:23):
our way to figure out what wecan do to help. And we don't
necessarily have to be asked,right? We're asking, Hey, what
can we do?
Can we show up? What can we sendyou? And I think that's
wonderful. That provides a lotof energy into the And even, I
will even say that we're noteven, know, that's a response to
(55:47):
a disaster situation. But evenmore importantly, think what
we're also doing is you see theproactive nature of this is
volunteerism, right?
Community outreach, trying tomake a difference in
communities, whether it'sproviding scholarships, whether
it's providing, you know,training, just going out into
these communities which we livein and serve, it makes a huge
(56:11):
difference. Builds thatconnection and bond. I am really
grateful for all the partnersand the chapters around the
world that are that are doingthat. I think it's wonderful.
Anthony Carrano (56:28):
What a great episode. Well, wraps up part one
of two. You wanna stay tuned forpart two that's gonna be coming
here in a few weeks. If there'sone thing this year's
conversations have made clear,it's that the Microsoft partner
ecosystem is a living, evolvingcommunity. Trust and culture
remain the foundation.
Specialization and innovationare definitely the accelerators,
(56:49):
and collaboration, whetheracross the street or across the
globe, is the multiplier. As welook to this next year, the
partners who will thrive arethose who can balance speed with
governance, ambition withethics, and growth with purpose.
To our listeners and pastguests, thank you for being part
of this journey. And to everypartner out there, keep
building, collaborating, andturning possibility into
(57:11):
progress. Thank you for joiningus on this episode of IMCP
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We hope you enjoyed this podcastand find it useful and
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on your favorite podcastplatform. One of the best ways
to partner for success is tojoin IAMCP, a community of
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(57:34):
members can find and connectwith other partners locally and
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Whether you're looking for newcustomers, new markets, or new
solutions, IAMCP can help youachieve your goals.
To learn more, visit the websiteat www.iamcp.org.
Welcome to a special edition of Profiles and
Partnership. I'm AnthonyCarrano, and today we're doing
something a little different.Over the past year, we've sat
down with some of the mostinnovative, resilient, and
forward thinking leaders in theMicrosoft partner ecosystem.
We've explored how trust becomescurrency, how specialization
drives growth, how AI is shapingthe way we deliver value, and
(00:27):
how mergers, acquisitions, andglobal collaborations are
rewriting rules of the game.This panel is our chance to step
back, connect the dots, and ask,what have we learned?
What patterns are emerging? Andmost importantly, what's next
for partners in this upcomingyear? Are you ready to join us
on this journey? Then staytuned. We have a great show for
you today.
(00:47):
We have Rudy Rodriguez,cofounder, Dunamis Marketing,
and cohost of this podcast, andEddie Bader, international
president of IAMCP and cofounderat Rise Partners, sharing their
observations and perspectivesthat will leave you with a clear
sense of where the opportunitiesand the challenges are for
partners and where those areheaded. Let's dive in.
(01:08):
Okay, well Eddie and Rudy, I'mreally glad to have you guys.
This is gonna be a fun episode.I can't believe we made it to
25. We've got a year under ourbelt, so welcome.
Eddie Bader (01:19):
Thanks, Anthony. It's good to be here.
Anthony Carrano (01:21):
Excellent. Rudy, I always see you every
time, but it's always still goodto see you, man.
Rudy Rodriguez (01:28):
Alive and well. Still alive and well.
Eddie Bader (01:30):
It's not getting old.
Anthony Carrano (01:32):
That's what for those that are listening, you
know, he didn't reciprocate. SoI don't know. Maybe we gotta
diagnose that outside of this.
Eddie Bader (01:40):
That's episode 27.
Anthony Carrano (01:41):
That's episode 27, that's it.
Rudy Rodriguez (01:43):
I love you, man. I love you.
Anthony Carrano (01:46):
I feel it, man. I feel it. I feel it. Well, what
a year it's been really excitedabout this special episode is
we're going to dive into justkind of reflections on the past
year, that we've observed, whatwe've learned, kind of talking
about, you know, things that weanticipate in the upcoming
twelve months. So withoutfurther ado, just kind of really
(02:06):
want to jump right in.
And one of the big things reallyas we were reflecting on this
past year is that, you know,within the Microsoft partner
ecosystem, consistently just,you know, hearing about trust is
the currency and culture is thecompound interest. Things like
ethical leadership, radicalcandor, and people first values
consistently separate the goodfrom the great. And a question I
(02:26):
have for you guys is, you know,as we've gone through all these
episodes, what's one insightfrom hearing the stories, you
know, from the podcast thatchanged how you approach
partnerships?
Rudy Rodriguez (02:38):
You know, I don't think I've changed my
strategy over the years. One ofthe things that I've always
stressed to, folks at mycompanies and to partners in
IAMCP is that there's a greatopportunity for business. You
know, And, a lot of us havebuilt companies and and you go
(02:58):
through the entire sales andmarketing process, trying to
land business. And sometimesyou're just going to run across
opportunities that are not in inyour in your quiver of services
that you offer. But one of thethings I always used to stress
to to partners whom I met was,if I learned about your special
(03:18):
specializations, then I couldintroduce you to some of my
customers as well.
And that's still a philosophythat I still follow. And I think
partners are more engaged nowand looking for opportunities
because so much time and effortand money gets spent trying to
land new customers that you haveto have a strategy for
(03:40):
partnering with other Microsoftpartners to help you grow your
business. And if you understandhow to do that, then I think the
partners that we run intorealize that that can make up a
pretty good chunk of theirbusiness, probably as much as
30% of their total revenue. Soit's one of the things I
continue to stress is, you know,go out and meet partners, learn
(04:03):
whom you can trust, and workwork with and through those
partners to help you grow yourbusiness. Eddie, how do you feel
about that?
Eddie Bader (04:10):
Yeah, I agree. I think that, you know, some of
these quotes that come to mindfrom so many episodes. So it's
like Natasha, she said, radicalcandor and clear swim lanes turn
partners into long term allies.That means a lot, right?
Anthony Carrano (04:25):
Yeah.
Eddie Bader (04:25):
That says a lot in a very brief sentence. And I
would just say that oftentimesI've heard of situations where,
you know, partners considerthemselves to be competition. I
think there's so much more togain from the cooperation of
(04:47):
working together, identifyingyour swim lanes. This is what
I'm really good at. This is whatyou're really good at.
We put this together. We godifferent places. Right? And I
think medicine has got it down.Right? You go to your your
family doctor. Right? But ifit's something, you know, ears,
(05:07):
nose, and throat related, you goto the ENT. He he he sends you
directly there. It's cardio youknow, heart related, sends you
to a cardiologist.
They all know what theyspecialize in, and there's a
purpose for all of them, andthey tend to have that system
down really well. And I'mexcited to see that this
industry is moving towards that.I think we can move faster, but
(05:28):
it's great to see that. And Ithink all of that, to your point
earlier, Anthony, is built ontrust, right? Knowing that these
folks are I'm connected to theright people. And when I say,
hey, these are the specialistsfor this, that you're gonna get
the best.
Anthony Carrano (05:43):
You know, it's interesting guys say that
because it's as I kind ofventured into this, the thing
that's has really, surprised methe most, and I don't I'm not
really sure why, but just howmuch of an emphasis is was just
just coming through thesestories just about how the
importance of culture, bothinternal importance of the
(06:06):
strong internal culture as wellas, you know, cultural fit, you
know, with know, with yourpartners and that it's more than
just kind of a transaction. Butif you're, wanting it to create
like a long term transformation,right, both, you know, in terms
of, you know, value for theclient and, you know, hopefully
future clients, but then also,yes, changing yourself and
(06:30):
positioning yourself for some ofthose opportunities, you know,
for repeat opportunities andgrowth things that like Rudy was
talking about, just theimportance of culture. And
that's one of the things I justdid not expect to hear, you
know, coming out, you know, inso many of these stories. And
so, you know, I'm not sure. Ithink for me, like the thing
(06:53):
about the, just about thechanging the approach to
partnerships is that just theemphasis on, you know, trying to
find guys of really likeculture, right?
So it's not a matter of justfinding, you know, guys that I
mean, yes, it's important tofind people that you can work
with, right? And that you feelcan provide a good value, you
know, to your customers, butjust the emphasis on a on
(07:15):
cultural fit or how much of theemphasis a cultural fit. So I
thought that was kind of prettycool. As you guys were sharing,
was there any particular episodeor insight, you know, from like,
actually, a specific episodethat stuck with you guys? I know
for me, like one, you know, wasdefinitely it's it's funny
because it was actually the thefirst one.
(07:35):
And I think it served as a realcatalyst for a lot of these was,
when Eric shared greatpartnerships turn challenges
into launch pads forinnovations. And I just thought
as a as a way of just reallythen framing, you know, all
these things, going forward. Andthere was another one, that
(07:56):
really stood out to me wasactually was Aaron in episode
20. And in that this, I'm gonnajust read this where he said
trust is the currency,innovation is the multiplier.
Together, they compound growth.
And I think maybe part of thattoo just because that that just
that thinking about that culturebecause, you know, in
interviewing, these companiesthat are you know very you know
(08:17):
high you know tech aptitudespecialist in their field but
just once again going back tothe things that are the soft
skills and just that currency oftrust. That really stuck with
me.
Eddie Bader (08:30):
Yeah, I like that one too. I was actually thinking
about that and when you said itkind of made me smile, but
something that you were talkingabout in terms of culture, I
think it's really important thatit's not just one person who
acts a certain way or is highlydependable, highly trustable,
but that culture is throughoutthe organization. Whoever you
(08:54):
come in contact with, you'regoing to get the same
expectations are present foreverybody, right? Everybody
feels that way, everybody actsthat way. And I think that's
what makes a difference, right?
Is between if this is ingrainedto the individual versus this
is, you know, part of theirculture. I think that matters a
(09:14):
lot. And I'm excited to see, youknow, we have some great
examples coming out right now.Like in Seattle, they have a
solutions group. This is eightseparate organizations have come
together to build solutionstogether. It's not easy to do.
It takes a lot of effort andthere's gotta be a lot of trust
and openness in those dialoguesand conversations and really
(09:35):
working together to put outsolution for clients. You know
to work any opportunity youreally have to be on the same
page there and I think that's agreat example.
Rudy Rodriguez (09:49):
Yeah that's interesting to find out about
the Seattle Solutions Group. Youknow, one of the things that I
learned in all these episodeswas how do you choose a partner?
You know, that was the onequestion we always asked. How do
you choose a partner? So, ofcourse, trust is one thing.
Technical specializations isanother one. But the most
interesting thing was, becausewe've done this on a global
(10:11):
level, was people are the sameacross the world. There isn't
that much difference. And that'sone of the things, you know,
having been in this business along time, you develop
unconscious biases sometimes.Oh, this person or this country
is gonna affect do business thisway.
Then you really get to talk tothem and know them, and they
(10:32):
don't. They follow soundbusiness principles, sound
technical principles, and goodpeople skills. And and that
leads to trust. And that'sreally, really important. And
that's the one thing I noticedbecause we've talked to people
from all over the world, andit's the commonality of the
human spirit and and ethics andand just the spirit of the IAMCP
(10:56):
in in a very ethicalorganization, a very technically
astute, group of partners thatare all striving to deliver
better solutions for ourcustomers.
Anthony Carrano (11:10):
Now that's so true, especially like, I mean,
you talk about was just all thefolks we've interviewed. I mean,
we've interviewed everybody froma lot of different countries,
probably about a dozen differentcountries, different partner
types, various sizes. That's,it's interesting because that's,
you know, just thinking back,you know, even just to like the
(11:31):
first, you know, first questionis just the diversity in the
community. Right? But to yourpoint, the shared commonality
around so many things.
And just while you were whileyou were sharing, it kind of
reminded me of there was a quotethat Suresh gave. It was in
episode 10 where, and I mean,is, this is a great line. So
(11:55):
Suresh, if you're listening,this was fantastic where you
said your brand is built in thecommunity long before it's built
in the boardroom. Right? And so,you know, to your point about,
you know, with the with theethics and the quality work,
and, you know, the delivering,you know, like you said, it's
it's building that relation,that brand in that, you know,
(12:16):
community of try-
I think that's what makes itbecause IAMCP members, I mean,
they're not going to toleratepeople who are not mindful of
building their brand in thecommunity and just, you know,
they'll, I don't know if you'll,Eddie, don't know if he
officially kick anybody out ifthey're just become
transactional, but theydefinitely don't reap the
benefits. Think, you know, thepartner collaborations.
Eddie Bader (12:39):
Yeah. Well, there is a there is a mechanism for
removal. We won't get into thattoday, but I'll just say that it
doesn't happen often, thankgoodness. But there's something
just I mean, these arepartnerships or relationships.
They're like friendships, right,between businesses.
But they are, behind thebusinesses are people. And I
(13:02):
think, you know, when it's allsaid and done, people have to,
you know, we talked about thisyou know, like, and trust, but
if you see somebody acting in acertain way that doesn't align
with you, you tend to just tomove away from them, right? And
so we may not move somebody outof the community, but they may
not thrive because nobody'sgonna wanna work with them
(13:27):
because of the way they approachbusiness. And I'll also say that
one of the mostpowerful, you know, we live in a
highly virtual space right now,but I still think one of the
most powerful things about thiscommunity, other communities, is
really getting face to face withpeople. Those conversations you
(13:48):
have, like even if they're at aconference, we had Illuminate in
Dallas in March and we haveanother one coming up in EMEA,
but those times and evenInspire, you know, or WPC before
that, those you see the samepeople. So people that live, you
know, like, you know, tenminutes away from me.
I might not talk to as much, butwhen you're in that conference,
(14:10):
you have three or four days,maybe five days altogether doing
stuff. You learn about thosepeople. You learn about who they
are, their tendencies. You buildthis rapport with them, and that
goes a long way. If we couldfigure out a way to accelerate
that virtually, I think it canhappen virtually, but in person,
(14:32):
it's just off the charts the wayit happens. I think that's core
to building, maintaining andstrengthening relationships and
partnerships.
Anthony Carrano (14:44):
Well, I know we've talked a lot about trust
and specialization. I know itwas definitely a big reoccurring
theme in a lot of the episodes.Let me ask you guys from what
both just like you observed fromthese partner stories, right?
Specifically, you know, fromthese partner stories, what were
some of the best practicesaround trust and specialization
(15:05):
have you seen emerge as keys tosuccess?
Eddie Bader (15:08):
I'll jump in on this one. I think sometimes the
partners feel like, hey, if Ispecialize, then I'm gonna be
losing out on all this otherbusiness, right? If I don't take
everything that comes my way.And I think it's just the
opposite. I think you becomeknown for being the expert in
this.
Go back to that medical analogy,right? I am the cardiologist.
(15:32):
I'm the ENT. I'm the top in myparticular field. And I think
Joe Khalaf, he even talked aboutthat leads to better margins
too, right?
You're an expert. I think weshouldn't shy away from being
experts. Even if we'repartnering, you you wanna have
(15:55):
that person and that team thatcan come in and just nail it.
Right? And there's a lot ofvalue for that to other partners
and to the customers when it'sall said and done.
Rudy Rodriguez (16:05):
I'll take a little bit different angle on
this one because specializationsis so important. One of the
things, since we just finishedworking on nine partner of the
year stories, I really learnedall about some of the
specializations that some of ourpartners have and how committed
(16:26):
they are to being the best inthe industry and and how they
can deliver significant value totheir customers. So whether
you're working with partner topartner or, again, developing
your specializations, this cantake your business up to the
next level because now you'reseen as a technical specialist,
(16:49):
a business a business leader, athought leader. And guess what?
You now partner with Microsoft,which is what a lot of people
ask us in the IAMCP.
How do I get the leads? One,prove how good you really are,
find that business, and thenpartner with Microsoft by taking
specific leads to them as well.In in years past, that's how we
(17:12):
built our business was we wewould go out and find large
enterprise accounts who neededspecific particular help, and we
would enlist Microsoft's help inhelping us land that business.
But we had the technicalexpertise to drive that
business. And we worked togetherto drive licensing revenue for
Microsoft, implementationrevenue for our companies, and
(17:36):
you see partners doing that.
And and and again, thespecializations prove you can do
it. So Eddie mentioned JoeKhalaf. You know, he's got a
couple of MVPs on his staff. Ourgood friend AJ in in Houston is
another one, you know, MVPs onhis dynamics practice. And
there's there's a company I workwith here in Austin. They have
(17:58):
11 MVPs on their staff. That'shuge. That's huge. And they they
partner with Microsoft onbusiness. So people say, how do
I get those leads fromMicrosoft?
You have to become really goodat what you do. So invest in
your company, invest inyourself, invest in your
company, invest in your peopleskills, technical and people
(18:23):
skills as well. And that willhelp you with your
specializations and really drivethose margins that you're
looking for.
Anthony Carrano (18:30):
That's excellent. That's excellent. You
know, as I think about that,like some of the best practice
of just kind of like in additionto what you guys are sharing
some of the best practices, Ithink about like some of the
like the qualitative teamfactors. And it's interesting
that this phrase came up severaltimes. I mean, came up like I
(18:51):
know, you know, Eddie, you hadmentioned Natasha, you know,
Reynolds, you know, she did anearly episode, you know, I also
know that, you know, JerryPower, you know, as well
mentioned in the just thetalking about clear, you know,
swim lanes, right?
And they have clear swim lanes.There's the, you know, you've
got the proactive, you know, thethe communication. I think the
(19:13):
radical candor was the word youused earlier, you know, and then
you have that mutualaccountability just, you know,
to, you know, as part of some ofthose best practices, you know,
for success. So I thought thosewere, those were really key and
just, you know, and then anotherkind of like a reoccurring like
theme I as I think about this,best practices is that it
(19:34):
doesn't happen by accident,right? I mean, if you approach
it very haphazard and you'reambiguous, it's going to be a
disaster, right?
And so every, you know, everyone of our guests just
emphasizes the importance of,you know, of being that like,
you know, true partnership andcollaborations and just kind of
luck. It doesn't just happen,but you have to be deliberate
(19:55):
and you have to design it, youknow, to execute, you know,
accordingly to kind of get thoseresults. And so I thought that
was pretty interesting. I I dowant to there was something I
was said earlier, you know, justabout, you know, the importance
of, you know, specialization andniching. How you know, and this
did come up in a few times is,you know, what have you guys
observed, you know, and justeven reflecting on these stories
(20:18):
about seem like balancing beinga niche expert with, you know,
with, you know, stayingadaptable. And what I mean by
that is responsive, like, to theneeds of of the customer. So
what are some things like, canyou guys speak to that?
Eddie Bader (20:34):
I would say if I'm understanding you correctly,
you know, I'm a specialist, butmaybe now my customer is asking
me something that's might beoutside of my wheelhouse. Is
that fair to say? Yeah, I thinkyou have to stay true to
yourself, right? That is thefirst thing that comes to my
(20:55):
mind when I hear that is that'spart of the opportunity, right?
I think if I'm really dedicated,if we're gonna do all the things
we just talked about, right?
Really focus on our specialty,really, you know, our skilling,
our people skills, everything isis pointed in a certain
direction and it's it's veryexact the the right thing to do
(21:18):
is is find somebody who's doingthat with this other request
right and partner in my opinionright there are times if you're
big enough maybe you can have afew specializations but a lot of
our partners that we come intocontact with it's probably
they're suited to having asingle focus Right? That that's
(21:41):
my take. I I always think of ifit's outside of my wheelhouse,
let's find the right person forthat because ultimately, it's in
the best interest of the overallsolution, the the customer.
Anthony Carrano (21:53):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Rudy Rodriguez (21:54):
Oh, that's that's interesting, Eddie, in
that I've been in the channelfor over thirty years now. In in
the 1990s, you could doeverything. That was that was
the one that was the the onemantra in our company was, sure.
We can do that. No problem.
You can't do that today. Youhave to be much more truthful
(22:15):
and honest about yourcapabilities, but but and
understanding where where yourlimitations are and but
understand that continue tobuild the trust relationship
with the customer and say, Idon't do this, but I know
someone who can, and then set upthose introductions. However you
(22:35):
do it, whether you pass it ondirectly to somebody else or,
you know, the thing is if you'vebuilt that trust relationship,
that customer is gonna say, youknow, I just want one person to
manage this process. So how canyou help me with that? And
establish that relationship withcustomers is how you can be that
one person, that moment of truthfor them, and you manage those
(22:56):
projects whether you know thetechnology or not.
But you manage it because youunderstand their business. You
understand what their motivesand motivations are, what
they're trying to achieve, andyou can find the right partner
to help them implement thetechnology that's going to help
them and you're justimplementing the right
solutions. So I think that'sreally, really important is to
(23:19):
establish that that thatbusiness relationship. It's so,
so important to to to a businessowner or to a decision maker as
to why they should choose you.And I think that that that whole
thing when you may not havethose specializations, you still
know people.
And that's what the real valueof of IAMCP comes in. You know,
(23:40):
when we founded IAMCP, we wasfounded on four principles,
partnering, advocacy, community,and education. We shortened that
to three three topics later on,but because people couldn't
remember all four. But the theimportant part the important
part was was, you know,partnering. How am I going to
partner?
And how and but you have tounderstand that partnering is is
(24:04):
has multiple multiple aspects toit. There's partnering with
other partners and partneringwith your client and building
trust relationships both ways.
Eddie Bader (24:14):
Yeah. I I was just gonna say something on that too
because we were talking abouttrust in the context of trust
amongst partners, but there'strust amongst the partner and
the client as well, and I thinkthat's just as important. I
think the idea may be overlookedor underrated, but when a client
(24:34):
comes to you and they ask youfor help and you tell them, Hey,
that's not me. I I have somebodywho would do that and is much
better at it than I am. Thatwhat you've done there is you
just you just started building adeeper relationship.
You're admittedly opening. Youopen about what you can and
(24:56):
can't do, what your capabilitiesare, and the fact that you want
the best for them and the bestin this case is bringing
somebody else in to help themwith this. That goes a long way.
Right? You're starting to submita very long term relationship by
doing that.
Anthony Carrano (25:11):
And I think that kind of circles back around
to, you know, when you're, whenyou're known for, you know, for
being an expert or that trust.And I think, you know, go back
to that quote from, you know,Suresh about that's part of
building your brain in thecommunity. Like, you're like,
okay, this person is honest.They're easy to work with.
They're good to work with.
They're, you know, world classand in, you know, these these
(25:32):
things. People are gonna wanna,you know, the one they're gonna
remember you. You're gonna standout, you know, for these things
that you're world class in, butthey're also wanna, you know,
you'll be like attracted, youknow, they'll be attracted to
you as they wanna help theirclients who might need some of
those things that you're worldclass and that you're not. So
(25:52):
staying true to yourself, Ithink your point makes you
really kind of stand out andgrow. Let's talk a little bit
about kind of about growth.
I mean, I know, you know, we'vetalked a lot about, you know,
just about innovation and trust,you know, growth a lot of times.
I mean, sometimes it can meanlike, you know, organic,
(26:12):
sometimes it can mean, you know,m and a. There's we've talked a
lot about partnership, it couldbe marketing. Let's explore what
it takes to really kind of growwithout losing, I guess, your
edge and without, you know,losing, you know, being true to
who you really are.
Eddie Bader (26:27):
Yeah. I'm actually really interested in in talking
about what we've what we'veobserved, you know, in that
context in terms of, you know,what are the what are some of
the biggest changes or shiftsyou've seen in the the Microsoft
ecosystem, you know, this year?Things are constantly changing,
but what stands out to you guysthe most?
Anthony Carrano (26:49):
Well, I wanna defer to Rudy to answer this
first because he's been therefor thirty years. So he's got a
lot of perspective.
Eddie Bader (26:56):
So you keep saying that, and then you wonder why he
doesn't respond to you at thebeginning of the show. No. He
didn't have his thirty years.I'm teasing you.
Anthony Carrano (27:06):
He said the thirty year number. I'm not
outing his age.
Eddie Bader (27:09):
I'm teasing you.
Anthony Carrano (27:11):
Nothing but respect.
Rudy Rodriguez (27:13):
Hey. As I tell everybody, not only am I older,
I'm old and slow now. So thatthat makes a difference. But you
know what? You know, the thething that, the challenges grow
I mean, the thing that drivesgrowth is is really kinda it you
know, it there's so manydifferent ways I can tackle
(27:35):
this.
Alright. So one, I rememberyears ago years ago, when when
it first became the cloudpartner program, you know, the
Microsoft networking program,and then became the cloud
partner program. And, you know,now we're in the AI partner
program. But I remember talkingto partners and said, what are
you doing to start changing yourorganization? You you have to do
(27:56):
this every five to seven yearswhen you're a Microsoft partner.
You have to start lookingforward. And Microsoft actually
gives you quite a few tipsseveral years in advance. Hey.
We're going to move here. Sowhen it became the cloud partner
program, what are you going todo to sell licensing?
And I started in the BPOS days,which was really difficult
(28:17):
because, one, the product barelyworked. And two, now we're
having to sell licenses to thisinstead of being under the
Microsoft Open program selling,you know, software boxes. And
and those partners who adaptedand saw the writing on the wall
made a made a lot of money. Andnow in one of our companies, we
(28:37):
got to the point where we'regoing, hey, we're clearing $50 a
month just in licensing. Just inlicensing because we adapted
early on.
I think it was 2013 or somethinglike that when we did it. And
and it was difficult. And, youknow, what we did is we went to
Microsoft, give us the leadsthat you can't close. And we
were getting a couple 100 a weekand closing about a third of
(29:01):
those.
Yeah. Yeah. So what how did wedo that? One, we adapted. We we
used teams to deliver, highquality webinars on how to use
the technology and implement itand what it was going to take.
We built a well rounded serviceabout training people around the
(29:23):
use of the software and how youcould leverage each individual
part and how then from a salesperspective, we showed companies
how it was going to save themmoney and and mitigate risk in
their organization.
And I'll give you one example.We had a state agency here in
Austin, had 15,000 people on,GroupWise, Novell GroupWise. So
(29:47):
this is going way, way back,guys. But they were moving to,
you know, Microsoft March, whichwas at the time, you know,
fairly new. And we sat in thewar room with the the client's
implementation team.
And here's the challenge theygave us. Can you migrate Can you
migrate 15,000 people in ninetydays? And I could tell you
(30:13):
pretty much everyone in the roomwent, what? There was a couple
of other words beyond that. Butthat was what was one of the
words.
And we said, alright, we've beengiven a challenge. Now, how are
we going to do it? So one wasputting in the right team, and
we used nothing but certifiedpeople, certified trainers to
(30:34):
help them launch that. And Ithink it was Microsoft Link at
the time, not not Teams, by theway. And we we took a look at
things.
What are the things that arechallenging this organization
the most? They had over 3,000backlogged help desk tickets.
3,000. And I said, our first jobis to get that down because
(30:54):
these people have other issues.Now when we implement this,
we're gonna target people andtarget groups, and we did it.
And by doing that and answeringtheir questions and then setting
up a knowledge base and settingup our help desk, we took the
help desk from 37 people down totwo two people and cleared up
3,000 tickets. By usingcertified help, use of using the
(31:19):
technology, showing them how touse it, providing it to our
clients to do it while workingon the implementation on a
nightly basis. And I could tellyou, it was a lot of, eighteen
hour days and weekends too. Butwe accomplished that. And guess
what?
Microsoft well, I mean, we wewere a subcontractor to
Microsoft Premiere Services. Andthey came back to us and said,
(31:43):
what else do you wanna try? Andmy answer was a lot of alcohol
and drugs right now because I'mexhausted, and I need sleep. And
and they let me have a week'sworth of sleep before we moved
on to the next project. But it'sunderstanding the scope of how
you want to help a client andcoming up with the strategy.
(32:06):
And your strategy is you have todevelop a strategy for
implementation, a strategy forpartnering, and and then the
strategy for communicating yoursuccesses along the way because
you can anticipate issues andproblems along the way as well.
And if you get out in front ofthem, you're just gonna be much
more successful. So that's along answer.
Eddie Bader (32:27):
So we can edit that to Coca Cola and candy later.
Right? No.
Anthony Carrano (32:35):
The title of this episode is Rudy Rodriguez,
my life of Drugs and Alcohol.
Rudy Rodriguez (32:41):
Good to know.
Anthony Carrano (32:44):
It's it's in the it's in the transcript. It's
official.
Eddie Bader (32:48):
Well, they get more subscribers. I'll tell you that
was true. That's it.
Rudy Rodriguez (32:51):
There's one beer, one bourbon, and one
scotch, Eddie. Right. There yougo.
Anthony Carrano (32:56):
That's it. You you asked an interesting
question about like the biggestshift you've seen in the
Microsoft ecosystem, andShannon, I know we're gonna
spend a little bit of time, youknow, here later obviously
talking about AI because can'tget out of answer, you know,
that question without talkingabout AI. I know we're going to
talk about that a little bitlater. I think for me the thing,
and this is, it's just myperspective. It's just the rise,
(33:19):
of just seeing like M&Aactivity as a as a mainstream,
as a growth strategy.
You always think about it interms of like, oh, it's, you
know, large players like the bigcompanies or, you know, the big
hedge funds, these, you know,these big private equity groups,
but that's actually that's, Imean, yes, they're doing their
M&A activity, but it's alsoa lot of the mid market, and
(33:43):
smaller partners, are in theM&A game. And that part has
been really surprising to seejust the, I mean, just the
amount of volume, and some ofthe reasons, behind some of
that, has been reallyfascinating for me to see. So
I've really enjoyed, you know,learning about that.
Eddie Bader (34:02):
Yeah. I think I think that's a great transition
too. We have got an excellentpartner with IAMCP who provides
us with the IAMCP marketplace,which is IT Exchange. And we've
been it's been awesome to havethem on the the podcast a few
times already. So in talkingabout mergers and acquisitions
and you mentioned strategicexits or that process isn't just
(34:28):
reserved for the largercompanies anymore and I think
success and strengthening yourposition, it's also based a lot
on culture and readiness.
I was just curious yourperspective on since this is
kind of a recurring theme,M&A is always out there.
What do you think smallerpartners need to understand
(34:50):
about this trend and how canthey use this process to improve
their organization?
Anthony Carrano (34:57):
Yeah, I know Rudy and I both have a lot of
because we actually both soldour previous companies. We've
also had the benefit of, youknow, being in these, in these
interviews. Rudy, are cool if Itake this one first?
Rudy Rodriguez (35:09):
Go for it.
Anthony Carrano (35:11):
Yeah. So the thing that really, I mean, in
terms of like, what do you thinkabout like with the smaller
partners is that a big theme.And there was a quote by Ian
Pavlik. It was an episode ninewhere he said a sale ready
business is a better business,even if you never sell. And I
was just like, that's a reallygood way to think about it.
(35:33):
And that if you're doing thethings that you know, you need
to do to sell your business,you're building a better
company, right? And so like youwin either way, you know, your
employees win, your customerswin, you as the owner win, by
just doing some of those, youknow, critical, you know,
things, to get your businessready to sell. And you're going
(35:54):
to, you're operating andperforming better anyway. And
that just that M&Areadiness, it's, it's, it's
like, it's almost like it's agood discipline. It's like a
practice that even if you're notselling that you should be doing
the things you need to do tobuild operational health.
Is that, I mean, there's a lotof things that I would share,
(36:17):
but that's probably the biggestone that stood out to me. And as
I think back on, I mean, like,you know, our current company,
but I even think of my previous,you know, company, I was like,
oh man, I really, you know, Icould have applied that in a lot
of different areas. And it wouldjust be interesting to see what
(36:38):
some of the outcomes would havebeen a little bit differently if
I would have applied that ownadvice.
Rudy Rodriguez (36:43):
Part on that, Anthony. It really is about, do
I really know my business thatwell? And am I documenting my my
business processes? So that'sone of the things that that we
used to do was we documented ourentire, you know, KPIs for the
entire organization on what wewanted to achieve. So besides a
(37:04):
budget, which everyone shouldhave, but we had a strategy that
we followed where we would do astrategic planning session every
year and then follow that on aon a monthly or quarterly basis.
But on top of that, wedocumented our sales and
marketing processes. So we knewwhat campaigns we're gonna be
running. We we had certainbehavioral items that we had for
(37:27):
our sales teams. How manyappointments, how many
proposals, how much this,etcetera, etcetera. So we became
really good at being able topredict our revenue as well.
At the beginning of every month,I would look at the current
month and so if we were at a105% of quota, we were gonna hit
quota that month. You know,nothing worse than than a sales
(37:49):
organization who's gonna try tohit quota, and they don't know
where they are at the beginningof the month. You have to know
exactly where you are. And thenon top of that, we also built a
training plan. So we took allour consultants and said, how am
I gonna train these people?
What skills do I want them tohave? And we had tier one, two,
(38:09):
and three type level people. Andso the amount of money that we
would spend on training thosepeople, because as I mentioned
earlier on, was investing in theorganization. And we had a
process that we documented andsaid, hey, our technical people
will be billable 70 to 80% ofthe time and 20% of their two
thousand eighty hours in a yearwill be spent on training. And
(38:33):
so we had to manage those peopleto continuously grow their
skills.
But that's how we were able tokeep people for a long period of
time because we kept advancingtheir skills and we kept
building the successorgeneration underneath them. So
we were able to do that. Sodocumenting your processes. So
as you grow, that's reallyimportant because a lot of
people in this business startout because they have a client
(38:57):
who gets a business and you knowhow to implement it. Now, where
do I go from here? It is aprocess and it is a strategy.
Anthony Carrano (39:04):
Well too, and then when you mentioned about
the importance about thepredictable, you know, revenue,
I mean, that's where, you know,I know Tim's talked a lot about
this, as well as just that likethe valuations are stronger for
those that have that reoccurringrevenue that defensible IP. So
like to your point, if you gotyour recurring revenue, you kind
(39:25):
of know this is where I'm at atthe start of every month before,
you know, I even have to open upthe doors, you know, day one,
just so the importance of, youknow, for these smaller partners
to, I mean, yeah, it's, youknow, you chase the big
projects, right? But it's,there's something to be said
for, know, you're building that,you know, getting those, those
incremental reoccurring revenue,Right? And then, you know, how
(39:48):
that pays off, you know, bigdividends, you know, over time.
Rudy Rodriguez (39:51):
Your company is a set of building blocks. And do
I understand what each one ofthose blocks does? And that's
really, really important. So ifyou don't have a good CFO or
accountant helping you with withthe business metrics, get one.
Same with sales and salesmanagement.
Understand your processes thereand and what what performance
(40:14):
metrics are important to helpingyou grow that company. And then
last but definitely not least isyour technical expertise. How am
I going to grow that technicalexpertise and continue to grow
it because that's the success ofyour business?
Eddie Bader (40:29):
Yeah. I was just gonna say it's I think we're
hitting on some recurringthemes, right? And Tim also
mentioned in M&A that techis easy. Right? It's the people
and culture that make or breakthe deal.
It's making sure that you have aculture that prioritizes
skilling, that prioritizesdocumentation and processes and
repeatable things that you cancount on and it's not because
(40:51):
those things provide consistencyin an operation. Right? If you
if you have all those thingsdocumented, even if you should
have some turnover, you stillare performing at a very
consistent level. And anybusiness that can do that as
opposed to going, you know,peaks and valleys, it ultimately
is gonna be more valuable longterm. Right?
(41:14):
So, yeah. I think this is alleverything we've we've been
talking about so far is is kindof like a build in this
conversation. It's cool. So Iknow we talked about M&A and
I also wanted to talk about theevolving partner roles within
(41:35):
organizations and we seepartners acting as trusted
advisors which has been going onfor forever as well as ecosystem
integrators and we have thiskind of movement from, you know,
transactional totransformational partnerships.
I think the focus is more movingtowards, you know, the
(41:56):
transformational long termrelationships. And I was just
going to ask both of you, youknow, if you had a bit on one of
these emerging roles, advisor,educator, innovator, which one
would you put all your money inon and why is that?
Rudy Rodriguez (42:16):
Let me go first on that one because you can't
pick the same one. So soinnovator. Innovator because of
AI. AI if you are an innovatorand and and especially with the
advent of AI, and you can youcan innovate, but do it in a
(42:40):
trusted, ethical way becausethere's some things that can go
wrong with AI as we all know. Itis if you can innovate because
you will become a trustedadviser from that because you
understand an organization'sbusiness processes, what the
what the, key stakeholders'motivations are, and and how how
(43:07):
to implement the technology toexecute all of this.
And you can't be afraid to havethe tough discussions with
stakeholders about why certainthings are happening and how you
can help drive their their theiryou know, help drive and meet
their business goals. Becausebusiness goals don't change
(43:28):
much. Right? You have to driverevenue, mitigate risk, and and,
I'm having a Rick Perry momentforgetting the third one right
now, which I'm always talkingabout. But it's one of those
things that if you can if youcan be an innovator and show
show companies how you can, youknow, drive their growth and and
(43:50):
and while mitigating the risk,it's going to help them so much
and they start trusting you andsay, all right, help us some
more.
And you do that throughinnovation and you will develop
the business expertise to be agood technical advisor as well.
Anthony Carrano (44:07):
Yeah, Eddie, I'd like to answer D, all the
above.
Eddie Bader (44:14):
I know, I know, but pick one, he said.
Anthony Carrano (44:19):
That's a tough one. You know, I think I guess
I'd probably then go I mean, youknow, I can I can actually I
think I can argue for all three,but I would think probably just
go then with the advisor becauseif it's the, you know, kind of
piggybacking on theme of liketrust and specialization? So if
(44:39):
I'm like, I'm gonna be worldclass in X, I'm gonna be, you
know, the preeminent X, youknow, expert in X, then, I could
provide that type of, know, bethat go to advisor, you know,
for my partners on behalf oftheir customers. And so I would
probably but it's gonna bleedover into because you're gonna
(45:00):
be doing some education. You'redefinitely gonna be doing
innovation.
So since you're forcing me topick one, I'll pick I'll pick a
advisor.
Eddie Bader (45:12):
That's cool. I have to lean towards Rudy and
innovator myself. I I've alwaysthought there's you know, when
you look at technology, there'sthere's what it is and what it
can be. And that what it can beis up to the individual that's,
you know, using it and wieldingit. Right?
(45:33):
Just like a chainsaw. In myhands, a chainsaw cuts down a
tree. A chainsaw in somebodyelse's hand creates ice
sculptures. Right? And that's abig there's a big difference in
the in outcomes of those things.
Right? Same tool used verydifferently for different know,
or at least for differentpurposes. I think that's where
some of the innovation comes outis because when we hand we get
(45:56):
handed this technology, gethanded AI, we get handed, you
know, all these things that havebeen built. We're told what it
what it is. We're told what itdoes, and it's up to us to
figure out what it can be, whatit can do, right, outside of
its, you know, given purpose.
And and I think that's where youstart finding special things,
(46:17):
but that's just my take on that.
Anthony Carrano (46:19):
I like that analogy with the chainsaw.
That's that's good. I'm gonnause that.
Eddie Bader (46:26):
From alcohol and drugs to chainsaws. We're
covering the whole gamut today.
Don't use it at the same timethough. That's the message.
Anthony Carrano (46:37):
Not don't operate the chainsaw while under
the influence of alcohol anddrugs.
Rudy Rodriguez (46:42):
It would be an interesting TikTok video.
Eddie Bader (46:45):
Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know about around
you guys, but they have likewhiskey bars with axe throwing.
I'm like, that seems like ahorrible combination to me.
Yeah. I I want to see it but Idon't I want to see it from a
safe distance. You know what Imean?
Anthony Carrano (47:06):
Mhmm.
Eddie Bader (47:07):
Well, as the advisor, I would say, yeah,
don't do that.
Rudy Rodriguez (47:14):
I would say get some education before doing
that. Because otherwise you'lldo like I did. And I threw it so
hard and low that it camebouncing right back at me. And
it was like, everybody behind mewent scrambling at the same
time. So it can be dangerous.
Eddie Bader (47:32):
Well, I've actually gone the innovator route because
at Costco, they had theseplastic axes that you can throw
against this board and kind ofacts like a, you know, like a
Velcro dartboard. It's notVelcro, but it still sticks and
every there's no cutting edgesand everybody stays safe. If
your choice is to consume, youcan consume safely. So I think
(47:55):
you covered all aspects of thatone.
Anthony Carrano (47:57):
Nice. Nice.
Eddie Bader (47:58):
So, you know, one of the reasons why we're here
doing this podcast is is reallyaround this community, IAMCP.
Right? And I think for a lot ofthings, we know it to be, you
know, our the connect, learn,and grow. I connect to people,
you know, educate yourself onMicrosoft ecosystem.
But on technology, on how topartner, you know, we tell
(48:22):
people to partner or network,and we assume they know how to
do it. But it's actually a skillset that you have to to develop,
and there there's a great way togo about it. And so we show
those things and then grow,right? Grow your business, grow
as an individual, grow yourskill set. I think IAMCP has
been credited with opening a lotof doors and making a lot of
(48:42):
connections globally And I thinkthat's a wonderful thing.
And and we have a bunch ofreferences from different
episodes from the first 25episodes, and we have more to
share in the next 25 episodes. Iwas just kinda curious on your
thoughts on that is, you know,what have you seen or have you
seen IAMCP members help movefrom just plain networking to,
(49:08):
you know, actual businessoutcomes? What have you what is
like, a real cool partner story?Whether it's it was captured in,
you know, one of these, youknow, podcast episodes or not,
what is what is one story thatstands out for you guys?
Rudy Rodriguez (49:20):
Alright. So I'm gonna take up some time here. I
I've actually seen quite a few,And and it was it was
interesting. There, you know, Ijust see see them almost on a
daily basis. I've beenevangelizing IAMCP for thirty
years now.
And and that's one of the thingsthat that I've worked with with
(49:42):
so many different partners ineither helping them with
particular business issues thatthey're having to help them grow
their business or helping themdrive and create their
partnerships, to to grow theirbusiness or to partner with key
people to develop a product thatcan turn into a business. So
(50:05):
I've I've been on all three onall three. And so one of the
most successful ones I've seenwas working with a former
president of IAMCP, RandySteinle, and a good friend of
mine, and working with him andputting together all the pieces
to to turn into his HIPAA HIPAAtype, organization, his grading
(50:25):
organization that he did, andbuilding that software services
where he grew that into amultimillion dollar business and
turned around and sold that.That's a great way to because he
came to me and says, can youhelp me with this? Alright.
Well, let's take a look at theorganization and see where this
is not working. Let's figure outwhat's not working. And he was
approaching everything from astraight sales perspective. No.
(50:47):
Let's look at the technology aswell.
Who's going to do that? Who arethe key people and what are
their what are their credentialsto to solidify and verify that
this is gonna be a solidproduct? And then identifying
the key markets, the the keyplayers, etcetera, and then
identifying key players acrossthe country who could help them
resell that service. So goingthrough MSPs who were servicing
(51:12):
doctors' offices, hospitals, andclinics, things like that, who
also wanted to make sure theirclients were HIPAA compliant.
And so through learning how tobuild all that stuff was people
working together to build asolution that was going to drive
and it turned into a verysuccessful business.
So that's one. That's one. I sawone this week where our our good
(51:35):
friend, John Nicolau, put out aa thing. He said, hey. We've got
a client who is spending xamount of dollars on Azure per
month and, you know, howMicrosoft's moving to direct
CSPs.
Any of you out there want to dothat? So I knew a couple and
turned both those partners on toJohn who's now working with them
to see if they can drive thatbusiness because it's a
(51:56):
substantial amount of revenue.And, you know, I've also worked
with, you know, again, manyother partners is to how do how
do we put help people put thistogether? And I think having
been a member of IMCP and andhaving been in multiple roles
that you learn a lot about theorganization and about the
players in the organization andhow you can connect those people
(52:19):
with each other. And then asthose people who know me well
enough, I'll I'll make you learnthis Microsoft stuff.
You have to learn it becausethat's what's gonna drive your
business, and that's what'sgonna help you grow your
business. So those are someexamples. I have a bunch of
them. I wish I could tell youall of them, but it but it's a
bunch of them and and could bevery successful. And I'm sure
(52:41):
you do too, Eddie.
Eddie Bader (52:42):
Yeah. For context, that that that opportunity to
move to CSP that Rudy wastalking about, that wasn't a
small opportunity. There was,like, $25,000 a month that they
were talking about in anopportunity there. It's pretty,
pretty amazing that you can findthat community.
Anthony Carrano (53:01):
Yeah, know for me, like as I think about our
episodes in particular, therewas one that's always stood out
to me and it was actually it wasa story that Carl Mazzanti in
episode 16 that he shared aboutit was in he was talking about
in 2012. So it's been a while,right? But it was when Hurricane
(53:22):
Sandy came in and hit and itjust I mean, it just caused so
much, you know, devastationthere. And I think maybe part of
it that resonated with mebecause of like my extended
family is all, you know, fromNew York as well. So I know a
lot of them were impacted, buthe just talked about, you know,
Carl specifically was talkingabout, you know, just the power
of IMCP even, I mean, back then.
(53:44):
Right? And, you know, where theyhad hundreds and hundreds of
servers go down for so manycustomers. And, I mean, here he
is. He's standing like, youknow, knee deep in, you know,
sewage and, you know, having touse baby wipes because there's
like no running water. And whatdoes he do?
You know, I mean, they had, likeI said, all these customers, you
(54:04):
know, were were were devastated.They had he was talking about
how they had, you know, partnersfrom multiple like states, you
know, come who were notaffected, you know, by the
hurricane come to help out. Andthey were able to get every
customer restored within, youknow, seventy two hours just
because they had, you know, allthese IAMCP partners, you know,
(54:28):
drive in and and help them out.And I thought that was kind of a
cool story, right? Because youknow, a lot of the stories that
we I mean, you know, where thestories that all the a lot of
the other stories we heard were,you know, they're it's all very
proactive. They're great storiesof creating value. This is one
where you had a crisis, youknow, hit and it's just reactive
(54:48):
and just kind of like the rapidresponse of the community and I
thought that was pretty cool. Sothat one kind of stands out to
me in particular.
Eddie Bader (54:57):
Yeah, I'm very, very proud of this community for
a lot of reasons but especiallyin those times of need.
Community shows up for oneanother, you know, especially if
something happens and it's notunique to us, but it's nice to
know that we have that. That'spart of our culture is go out of
(55:23):
our way to figure out what wecan do to help. And we don't
necessarily have to be asked,right? We're asking, Hey, what
can we do?
Can we show up? What can we sendyou? And I think that's
wonderful. That provides a lotof energy into the And even, I
will even say that we're noteven, know, that's a response to
(55:47):
a disaster situation. But evenmore importantly, think what
we're also doing is you see theproactive nature of this is
volunteerism, right?
Community outreach, trying tomake a difference in
communities, whether it'sproviding scholarships, whether
it's providing, you know,training, just going out into
these communities which we livein and serve, it makes a huge
(56:11):
difference. Builds thatconnection and bond. I am really
grateful for all the partnersand the chapters around the
world that are that are doingthat. I think it's wonderful.
Anthony Carrano (56:28):
What a great episode. Well, wraps up part one
of two. You wanna stay tuned forpart two that's gonna be coming
here in a few weeks. If there'sone thing this year's
conversations have made clear,it's that the Microsoft partner
ecosystem is a living, evolvingcommunity. Trust and culture
remain the foundation.
Specialization and innovationare definitely the accelerators,
(56:49):
and collaboration, whetheracross the street or across the
globe, is the multiplier. As welook to this next year, the
partners who will thrive arethose who can balance speed with
governance, ambition withethics, and growth with purpose.
To our listeners and pastguests, thank you for being part
of this journey. And to everypartner out there, keep
building, collaborating, andturning possibility into
(57:11):
progress. Thank you for joiningus on this episode of IMCP
profiles and partnership poweredby Dynamis Marketing.
We hope you enjoyed this podcastand find it useful and
inspiring. If you did, pleasesubscribe, rate, and review us
on your favorite podcastplatform. One of the best ways
to partner for success is tojoin IAMCP, a community of
Microsoft partners who can helpeach other grow and thrive. IMCP
(57:34):
members can find and connectwith other partners locally and
globally and access exclusiveresources and opportunities.
Whether you're looking for newcustomers, new markets, or new
solutions, IAMCP can help youachieve your goals.
To learn more, visit the websiteat www.iamcp.org.
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