October 22, 2025 • 45 mins
In this dynamic episode of the IAMCP Profiles and Partnership Podcast, host Anthony Carrano is joined by Eddie Bader and Rudy Rodriguez for part two of their landmark anniversary special. The trio explores seismic shifts in the Microsoft partner ecosystem, focusing on the impact of AI, evolving business models, and the power of community collaboration. With stories, actionable insights, and forward-looking predictions, listeners gain a roadmap for navigating change, harnessing innovation, and building trust in an ever-transforming industry.
Listener Links / Resource
International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners: Website
Guest:
Eddie Bader: LinkedIn
International President of IAMCP
Co-founder of RYZE Partners: RYZE Partners
Hosts:
Anthony Carrano, Principal at Dunamis Marketing: LinkedIn
Rudy Rodriguez, Principal at Dunamis Marketing: LinkedIn
Dunamis Marketing Corporate Website: Dunamis Marketing
Podcast Website: IAMCP Podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Anthony Carrano (00:06):
Welcome back to the IAMCP Profiles and
Partnership podcast and part twoof our landmark episode, where
we dive deep into theconnections, lessons, and growth
stories within the Microsoftpartner community. I'm your
host, Anthony Carrano, and I'mthrilled to be joined again
today by two incredible voicesin the ecosystem, Eddie Bader
(00:26):
and Rudy Rodriguez. If youmissed part one, make sure to
check it out for stories oftrust and collaboration. Today,
we're leaping into the future,examining the seismic shifts in
the Microsoft ecosystem, frommergers and acquisitions to the
rise of AI, productization, andthe evolving role of partners.
Eddie, Rudy and I will sharelessons learned, actionable
insights and predictions forwhat's next.
(00:48):
Let's dive in.
Eddie Bader (00:51):
I'm gonna take a hard right turn on you guys and
just tell you I love Home Depot.And you're probably like, where
did that come from? And the thereason I said that because I
like tools. And I go in there, Ilook at tools, and I like
because they have a tool for,you know, all these things, very
specific purpose. You gotta doyour very general purpose like a
hammer or screwdriver to, hey,this is the tool that you need
(01:13):
to unscrew the, you know, thevalve in in the shower in the
wall.
Right? Without this, you can'tget it. Right? And I just think
that's awesome. I wanna buy themall even though I have no use
for them. And, eventually, I'mgonna end up like this little
mad scientist that somebodysays, oh, I need this. And I go
away for ten minutes and I comeback. Oh, here's the tool. Take
this and use it. You're you'regood.
(01:33):
But with all that said, even theeven an organization with the
sharpest focus, they need theright tools. And we know that
leads us to the conversationaround AI automation, data
driven decision making. And Ikinda wanted to talk more about
that and how partners are areturning to technology or turning
technology into tangiblebusiness outcomes.
Rudy Rodriguez (01:55):
Well, that's a really interesting topic because
it's it's fraught with peril. IfI could do it was it was
interesting when you talk about,you know, a AI and data aren't
tools. You know? They become thebackbones of how partners are
gonna build their valuepropositions. And and people the
(02:16):
partners who are going to becomethe winners in this industry are
people who combine innovationwith governance, customer
success metrics, measurable ROI.
So one of the things we wannatalk about is is can you share
any perspectives about theanticipated impact of Microsoft
(02:37):
Copilot and AI tools on partnerofferings? Because those that's
you know, we you know, evenMicrosoft's calling us, you
know, frontier partners now.We're at the start of a
revolution or start of a newfrontier. So what what do you
think is going to happen to tothe partner channel? What's the
impact of AI?
Eddie Bader (02:58):
Well, the the easiest thing is that, you know,
AI is the thread that's gonna besewn into every piece of fabric
there is. When you look at theway the Microsoft AI cloud
partner program is going toevolve, I'm I'm gonna make a
prediction here. It's not a verybold prediction, but it hasn't
been announced yet. But when welook at you know, they condensed
(03:19):
from six six solutiondesignations down to three.
They're in the process of doingthat.
It's it's very it's you know,we're just an announcement away
from having an AI componentbuilt into the achievement of
those solution designations.Right? It's like I said, it's
gonna be the the common threadin every fabric. And I think
(03:41):
those who lean forward, leaninto that frontier mindset, use
it internally. Right?
It's it's going to be part of ofeverything we do, like it or
not. But I think we should likeit. We should be building
solutions around it. We shouldbe using it to its its take full
(04:03):
advantage of what it can do forus. There's some things that we
can benefit from fromautomation, and I and I don't
look at this as necessarilyreplacing people.
I think it's replacing somethings that maybe people don't
have to do themselves, right,which allows them to focus on
higher level efforts. Right? Solet's say if if we were to
(04:26):
categorize this as traditionalcategorization tier one, two,
tier three, Right? Tier threebeing this special the special
need in in terms of the mosttechnical person. If you can,
like, take a layer out out ofthat, let's say that that tier
one out of the the equation withthe implementation of AI, it
(04:49):
allows you to skill skill upyour team and have a bunch of
tier twos and tier threes,whatever that whatever that
means in your context.
But I think it allows you to domore in-depth work, more
critical thinking type of work,and, you know, and I can go on.
But I do think this is gonna besomething that we build on. And
(05:10):
even though some of ourcustomers and clients may not
feel like they're ready forthis, it's coming. And so
whether whether they want it ornot, it's coming. And I think we
have to be that innovativebridge to to the use of this new
technology.
Right? And and really help themunderstand how it can be a
(05:31):
benefit to them and and howthey're gonna use it to grow and
thrive and and things of thatnature. But I don't know if that
totally answers your question,but I do think if you don't
adopt it and if you don't adoptit now, that everything's
changing so quickly, you'regonna be behind and you may not
be able to catch up if if you'renot adopting now. In six months,
(05:55):
we're gonna be having a verydifferent conversation around
this already.
Anthony Carrano (05:58):
Yeah. I don't know if I don't really feel
qualified to be able to talkabout predictions, I will say,
like, me, it's been fun to, asI've observed, obviously, you
know, as Microsoft'sincorporating, you know, you
know, Copilot and AI into intoeverything. What's been an
interesting thing as I've beenlearning and now, Rudy, don't
ask me a follow-up question onthis. Okay. Because you'll get
(06:19):
that deer in the headlightshere.
But it's what's been interestingas I've just kind of been
listening to some of our guestsand even in working with some
clients, just the just the notonly just the importance, but
how much of a gap there is in,AI governance. That part is, I
(06:42):
just, I don't know. I justcause, and I guess maybe just,
you know, being the marketer guylike, oh, you see the new tool,
let's start using it. Okay.How's all this stuff can create
cool stuff and increaseproductivity and, you know, get
better results and dah dah dahdah.
But then not realizingespecially like some of the
bigger, you know, companies howhow much governance, right,
which isn't, know, the cool sexything as like, you know, the
(07:04):
shiny tool to use, but it's socritical and just been hearing
our guests like talk about it.And there was a there was a
quote from Matt at Rencore inour latest episode, and I
thought this was just a greatline. He said automate the
boring, govern the critical. AIwithout governance is just chaos
at scale. And I just that's justso well put.
(07:27):
And so anyway, that's just kindof been one of those things
that's not, it's not really aprediction. There's just kind of
an interesting thing as I've,know, just been learning or
observing and learning as a aswe've been kind of talking with
these folks.
Rudy Rodriguez (07:43):
Yeah. So I to take AI and break it up just a
little bit because there'sgenerative AI like chat GPT, and
then there's agentic AI. And sotwo very different things. I'm
gonna throw a curveball at you.You may not have read this
article, but MIT put out a studythat 95% of generative AI
(08:05):
implementations fail. 95%. Andand so I think there's a real
opportunity there for partnersin in that if you understand,
and I'll put it into the contextbecause I I have a friend who's
a CTO at a at a big organizationhere in Austin. And, they
(08:26):
implemented both GPT and Copilotat the same time. Ready for
this? 92,000 users.
Oops. Forgot to secure theorganization. So ended up
(08:47):
costing a CIO his job because itwas chaotic. Right? Even though
his edict was, we're not doingthis yet. We're not doing this
yet. But departments went anddid it on their own. So have you
run into rogue organizationsthat are doing some of this? And
this is why these things fail.We know why they fail.
Right? You you must secure yourenvironment first, and
(09:08):
governance is a key piece of it.But there's an opportunity there
for partners, on generative AI,which a lot of our partners will
operate on. But then we'rehaving more and more partners
who are trying to becomespecialists in agentic AI. So
can you share a little bit aboutthat as to, what are the human
skills that partners have todouble down on to stay relevant
(09:29):
in both those areas?
Eddie Bader (09:31):
Yeah. Those are great questions. And I want to
go back to something I am goingto attribute to Satya, and I'm
pretty sure he's the one thatsaid it. But he said it's it's
Copilot for a reason because itworks with you. It's not
autopilot. Right? Autopilot willbe something different where it
(09:53):
works on its own. And we willhave some things that are
getting close to autopilot, butlet's talk about the Copilot and
Agentic AI. I think I'mfascinated by agentic AI. I'm
working on agents myself rightnow.
There is I I think it's undermaybe it's not, but in my
(10:16):
opinion, I feel like your skillsin prompting are are very
important. Right? Your promptshave a tremendous impact on the
end result whether it's even ifyou're just asking it to come up
with some copy for you or, youknow, put together some kind of
(10:37):
framework or whatever or evenwhen you're creating agents,
it's really based on on how youset this up. You know? What's
your tone? Is it friendly? Is itinformative? Is it, you know,
this is the way I want you torespond to to queries. This is
the way, you know, you should beanswering. This is the format.
Don't use any informationoutside of what I give you.
(10:59):
Okay. It's okay to go to thesesites. That skill is developed
over time. You know, I I don'tknow anybody who's produced
anything really worthwhile thatdid it from one one prompt.
Right? It's a it's an iterativeprocess and understanding how
that works. So I think that isis a key component is that I do
(11:21):
think well, I know right nowthere are actually courses in AI
prompting. Right? So that is askill set to have.
I also think that just theintegration of AI into some of
our other, what we wouldconsider more commonplace
technologies, right, how does AIwork with you know, Azure or
(11:46):
some other foundational elementsthat we use every day? How can
that enhance? Right? There's theCopilot piece, obviously, but
when we build these agents andthey're purpose built, how do we
get more from the same toolsthat we've been using for years?
Right?
And I think that goes back tothat whole innovator concept is
the people who are reallythinking about that, who are
(12:08):
really diving in, who arecreating like sandboxes and just
playing around and seeing whatthey can develop. I think
they're gonna be, you know, onthe leading edge of developing
what we see, you know, in inthree to six months and and
even, you know, a year from now.So I would say that things that
(12:28):
people should focus on is theirworking skills and their sandbox
skills. Take time to playbecause this is definitely, in
my opinion, this is definitely atechnology where you have to
play around with it, see whatyou get. And the fact that you
can can come in today, ask, youknow, prompt it a certain way,
(12:50):
and then tomorrow you can comein and prompt it the same way
and get two different results.
That's you know, there's there'scontinuity things. And and and
the other thing that you touchedon, which is hugely important,
is the big opportunity in thisspace is all the data governance
and locking down environmentsand making sure that you put all
(13:13):
those things in place and andmake you prepare an environment
to to adopt AI. I think that'sgonna be that's already at the
front of the list, and and thoseskills are gonna be super
important.
Anthony Carrano (13:27):
Rudy, I'd like to chime in on this one too,
when you were asking thatquestion, was thinking about,
you know, we talked about likethe, the human skill side of it.
And I was, you know, as you guysknow, I mean, I've, you know,
I've coached, you know,competitive basketball for a
while and something it remindedme of something I would tell my
players is be fast, but not in ahurry. And just the importance
of just when you're doing this,be intentional, You know, be,
(13:50):
you know, go for it. But bemethodical. Don't just be
haphazard.
And, so, you know, that's Ithink that's part of like, you
know, be intentional when you'redoing it. I think, you know,
part of it also is stay curious,keep learning, you know, set up,
you know, experiments where, youknow, it's so key in certain
(14:11):
situations where it's okay tofail. And, and to keep growing.
And I think part of that islike, I guess the, the, the last
thing would be is just to bepatient, you know, don't try and
get it all done. Like, you know,just that whole, you know, I
want to be in a hurry, you know,be fast, be intentional, but not
in a hurry, you know, kind oflike more of a, as a quality, a
(14:34):
human quality approach to it.
Rudy Rodriguez (14:37):
So let me ask a question about where, you know,
value creation, through AI isgonna be hugely important. So
how how does a partner educatehimself, or how does how does a
partner work with their clientto truly understand what their
stakeholders' motivations are?What you know, how how they do
(15:01):
they truly understand what thebusiness processes look like?
And then do they have a way toimprove those processes? Because
that's where AI is really gonnabring tremendous value in being
doing that.
And and there's several examplesof products that are already out
there that are doing that. We'vegot a client who has built
agents to monitor, MicrosoftSentinel. And what it does, it
(15:26):
is constant because they managelarge enterprise security
operations. It is constantlysearching for anomalies taking
place in a secure securityenvironment and is able to do
that and immediately mitigatethe risk if they see an anomaly.
And then depending on theseverity of the anomaly, it
(15:47):
notifies people and they canactually intervene and kill it
or sequester it some form orfashion.
So where where does you know,because that's that's something
that partners don't alwaysunderstand the business
processes. I was in applicationdevelopment where world, and you
understand a lot about businessprocesses doing that. And and,
(16:12):
how how does a partner gain someof those skills, and how can
IAMCP help them with some ofthose things?
Eddie Bader (16:18):
I think it's it's a very relevant question. And I do
think that it's one of thoseskill sets that, I don't know,
it's a bold statement, but Idon't think that'll ever go
away. Right? Really being ableto have a business conversation,
understand where an organizationis, where they wanna be, what
they're struggling with. Andreally, I don't know about your
(16:42):
experiences, but I've oftenfound that organizations feel
like there's some technologysilver bullet that's gonna solve
all their problems, and I don'tknow that that exists.
Oftentimes, it's adjustments intheir people, processes, and
technology that are required tomake that turn that organization
(17:03):
around or or make them moreprofitable. Being that that
human interaction, thatdiscussion is super important. I
think you can how you gain thoseskills, I think you gain it by
doing it. I think there's acertain level of compassion and
patience that are required tolisten to people, to understand
and then being able to filterwhat they're saying with what's
(17:27):
really going on and in terms ofhow IMCP can help I think we
have some really great examplesof people and organizations who
do this every day right and whenyou build those partnerships and
you share stories like we shareon the podcast, but when you
share your own stories and say,Hey, you know what? I know
you're an MSP. I'm an MSP.
(17:48):
You know, maybe the mindset iswe're competitors, but there's
an opportunity to collaboratehere. This is how this is one of
the problems I'm having. How doyou handle that in in your
everyday life? Right?
How do you how do you have thistype of conversation with a
client? How do you get them toshare what's important? What's
on their roadmap? What they'restruggling with? What's you
(18:11):
know, and really identify thosethose problems to solve.
And and we have partneringsessions. Right? Paul leads
these partnering sessions once amonth, and it's really strategic
about how to identify goodpartners but there's also some
really great nuggets in thereabout how to have conversations
(18:32):
how to position solutions allthose all those interactions I I
think they help. And I don'tthink I've nailed the answer on
this on this particular oneprecisely, but I will say that
that when you talked aboutskills, I think this skill of
being able to communicate withthe client and being able to
(18:54):
draw information out from themand understand what they're
they're struggling with is issuper impactful. Some people do
it through QBRs, quarterlybusiness reviews.
Some people do it in other ways.I've had relationships with
clients that they just call meup because we have that kind of
relationship where they I don'tknow what to do about this. Can
you take a look at this for me?This is a problem for us. It has
(19:16):
nothing to do with with thescope of work that I that we
have in place, but they'vereached out because they trust
me.
Right? And and a lot of it goesback to that that trust. So I
don't know if that's a greatanswer to your question, but I
do think that it is a skill. Itneeds to be nurtured, and the
more you do it, the better youget at it. And I don't think
(19:38):
that's going away anytime sooneven with even with as good as
AI may be and you know in the inthe future I still think there's
the human element that it can'tbe replaced.
Rudy Rodriguez (19:52):
Yeah. I'm gonna circle back to the trusted
adviser role that we talked alot about early on. If you're a
trusted adviser, then you as atrusted adviser can guide people
towards the technology. Pointout, this is a technology that
can help you with thisopportunity. Let the client make
the decision as well.
It's a joint decision, but youyou can spot the opportunity of
(20:16):
what you can help them with.This is a technology that's
gonna guide you there, and thatwill grow your business
relationship with your clientinfinitely instead of trying to
tell them AI will cureeverything because it just
won't.
Eddie Bader (20:27):
People like options. Right?
Rudy Rodriguez (20:30):
No. I I think the options are very important
for any client in that they haveto understand what the
opportunities are. And that's asa IT technologist, that's our
job is to, hey, there's anopportunity here. Here's how we
can take advantage of this, growrevenue, mitigate risk, you
know, etcetera, etcetera,etcetera. This is where we can
(20:51):
help you.
And and then you do that, andyou can demonstrate what your
expertise is to drive that aswell because that's true value
creation right there. Okay.Let's talk a little bit about
governance. So have you had muchexperience in in the era in this
new era of AI in how you governAI? And what are the challenges
(21:13):
that you're seeing there? Causethere's just a massive amount of
data coming through. Right?
Eddie Bader (21:18):
Yeah. I've heard the horror stories. And
obviously, AI in an environmentstarts exposing a lot of data to
to everyone, especially datathat you don't want to share,
like maybe salary informationor, you know, trade secrets, IP.
I know one thing is that I wouldnever implement an AI solution
(21:39):
without going through therigorous governance component of
it, And I would tell you rightnow that I wouldn't do that
myself. I there's a few partnersthat I know within the community
that specialize in governance, Iwould reach out to them first to
help us secure the environment.
And once we've secured theenvironment and put all the the
(22:01):
appropriate guardrails andboundaries in place, then we
could start talking aboutimplementation. And the other
thing is I would also not try toimplement 92,000 users all at
the same time.
You know that story. It's it'sjust that's like, when you said
that, I'd like, oh my goodness.I I don't even know how they
(22:22):
would even think aboutapproaching that. So, yeah, not
a lot of firsthand experiencesetting up those environments
because I would I would ask apartner to come in and do that
for me. But but it is important.
I have seen it go awry. I willsay that even within IAMCP and
and working within our owntenant, we're we're very mindful
(22:45):
of, trying to make sure thatwe're not exposing information
or not putting something in ourtenant that's going to expose
our members to anything thatthey wouldn't want to be exposed
to. And we have to keep privacypolicies GDPR, Californian
Privacy Act in mind. There's alot of factors and for somebody
(23:08):
who doesn't do it all the timethis is a wonderful case study
for partnership because thosefolks who specialize in this
they're up to date, they knowwhere the pitfalls are, they've
dealt with them, and they willask questions that you didn't
even think to ask to begin with.That's kind of my take on that
or at least my experience todate.
Rudy Rodriguez (23:28):
So I'm gonna jump ahead a little bit because
we've been on on for quite awhile today, and and I think
it's been a really valuableconversation. Let's talk about
partner led innovation. Youknow, we we deal with a variety
of different types of partnersout in the marketplace. Where do
you see the biggest opportunityfor innovation in the Microsoft
ecosystem in the next year ortwo?
Eddie Bader (23:50):
I'll be honest, we've had this conversation for
a little while now. I thinkproductization is gonna be key
moving forward. IP developmentand and really understanding
what that means. Right? Being aservice company and being
product company can be very twovery different animals, but
(24:14):
understanding what part of yourservices are actually a product,
you know, that recurring thingthat you do all the time, what
can be made into a quote unquotewidget that can be utilized by
anybody at anytime, anywhere?
I think more focus on that isgonna be key. I know Microsoft
is making a big push for forpartners to be in the
(24:36):
marketplace. There's a lotinvolved in that and I think
partners need to think aboutthat carefully in terms of it's
a good fit for us. If we go inthe marketplace, how do we make
sure that widget just doesn'tsit on the shelf with every
other widget that's out there,right? There's a lot to it.
I think that you and Anthony inparticular, being on the
(24:58):
marketing side, you kind ofunderstand what it takes to
really put a product, you know,go from design innovation and
having it on the shelf to actualpeople buying it, right? And
there's a lot of things going onthere, but I would see that
innovation is 100% going to havesome component of AI built into
(25:19):
it. But I do think that movingforward we are going to do a few
things. We're going to have tothink about productization.
We're going to have to thinkabout verticalization.
Right? The more that youspecialize in, this goes back to
the conversations we had earlierin in in this conversation, your
specialty along with yourinnovation is gonna lead to some
(25:42):
IP that sets you apart in themarketplace. I think those are
going to be key focuses for allpartners. And each partner is
going to have to understand howthey approach that as some may
be ready to do it now, some maynot. But it is something that I
would encourage every partner toconsider. Even if they don't end
(26:02):
up doing it, they should thinkabout it.
Anthony Carrano (26:04):
I was just going to piggyback on that about
all those things that Eddie justmentioned and just encourage
listeners to really lean in onpairing that with like that deep
industry, you know, expertisewith their proprietary IP,
because then the more you know,you know, about your customer
(26:24):
and find those just those thoseunique needs for that industry.
If you can be positioned toserve those, you in essence then
are are are you're not gonnareally have the competition,
know, that you would if you're,you know, providing, you know,
like a general, you know,widget, you know, that can apply
(26:45):
to everybody. But if you can getreally specific and create those
series of very specific industryresources and tools, that would
be something I would like I Iwould wanna see.
Rudy Rodriguez (26:57):
I think the productization becomes very
important because Anthony, asyou know, we always talk about
customers who don't understandwhat offer they need to make to
their customers. And one of thethings that we've seen the
evolution of of business is youhave to make it easier for the
customer to understand what itis you do, how you do it, and
(27:19):
what price you're doing it at,and how you can compartmentalize
that because, you know, one ofthe one of the biggest sales
phrases that will kill a salefaster than anything is, you
know, when a customer asks you,how do you do this and how much
is it gonna cost? And youanswer, well, depends. That just
(27:40):
kills everything right then andthere. You have to be clear
about your offer and what you'redoing.
And a lot of partners don'trealize that they can
compartmentalize that and say,this takes this long and this
does it. And that's somethingthat I've seen changes in the
marketplace where people arejust saying, hey. This
implementation is x amount ofdollars. That's it. That's it.
(28:01):
And they've gone through theeffort to to identify that IP
that's required to do an expertimplementation. And I think
that's really important.
Eddie Bader (28:10):
I'm gonna add to that and just say that and and
please correct me if if you feelI'm off base here, but buyer
personas are changing. Right? Ifyou generationally, we are
moving from a few generationswho are used to this the
standardized sale process.Right? Let's have a meeting.
Let's talk about SOW. Let'slet's scope this out. Here's
(28:32):
project plus 20% for every youknow that sales cycle is long
and it can be tedious at timesand when we see this the new
generations come into theecosystem they're researching
everything on their own If theysee something and they can buy
it they're gonna potentiallyjust buy it right off the
shelves. So even something assimple as do you have a shopping
(28:55):
cart on your website wherepeople can buy your services or
your product? Can they buy iteasily?
And I think we've put a lot ofbarriers in front of the
purchasing process and I wouldlike to see more partners make
it very easy to consume theirproduct. To your point Anthony
or I mean, really be veryconfident in what they're
(29:17):
providing. We've seen hugesuccess with folks that have
just a flat fee for thisparticular implementation.
Because they know how to do it,they've done it hundreds of
times or thousands of times andthey've got it dialed in. So I
would just say that that'sanother key thing to to think
(29:41):
about is that buyer personas arechanging. Not everybody wants to
be in a conversation with you.They just wanna buy it. So take
as many obstacles out of thatbuying process as possible.
Rudy Rodriguez (29:53):
Okay. Got one other question, you know,
because we get this, from fromIAMCP members all all the time.
But how can partners align withMicrosoft's broader mission? And
is that best for their business?
Anthony Carrano (30:07):
I got a short answer for this one, Eddie. One,
join IMCP. Two-
Eddie Bader (30:14):
That's a great answer.
Anthony Carrano (30:15):
That's it. Go to the meetings and join the
programs. Three, read your bitsand bytes, right? And if you
don't know what that is, you gotto join a chapter and show up.
But in all seriousness, just,you know, especially for the
unmanaged partners is you got tosign up and get involved.
(30:38):
I don't know Eddie you gotsomething you want to expound on
that?
Eddie Bader (30:41):
Yeah, I'll just try and make this quick. I think as
an organization we've done a lotof good work in providing
content that's relevant andtrying to help partners
understand the relevant aspectsof being a Microsoft partner. So
we have sessions on partnering,we have sessions on sales and
(31:02):
marketing, we have sessions onpartner enablement, really
trying to help partners focus inon the things that are going to
drive their business forward. Sothere's that component of it.
But it also comes down toexecution.
And I think being a Microsoftpartner, you know, it's like
drinking from a fire hose,right? And not everything that
(31:23):
is out there is something thatan organization should be
involved in. So to Ruth's point,you have to really take some
time and be strategic with whatyou decide to go after
understand why you're goingafter it what you're what you
expect the benefits to be andthen and then just dedicate it
if you're going go get asolution designation then just
be singularly focused becauseyou can make it happen. If
(31:46):
that's not in the cards for you,don't do it because somebody
else is telling you. Do itbecause it's gonna benefit your
business.
Right? And every eachorganization has to make that
decision upon themselves. Butthe INSP is a great place to
talk to the people who are doingit, talk to people who have made
the same decision you're making,and so the people who haven't
made the same decision. And alsocontent, we've got a lot of
(32:10):
great people and organizationsin the community with a lot of
knowledge who are willing toshare that and I think that's
huge benefit of being part ofthis global community.
Rudy Rodriguez (32:23):
Well, we're almost through for the day, but
I do wanna ask you, you know, inwhat one way could IAMCP or
could the partner communityevolve to better support growth
and and collaboration?
Anthony Carrano (32:35):
Are you, thinking, like, from our
perspective or from theperspective of from the, from
the episodes?
Rudy Rodriguez (32:41):
From a membership perspective, what
could IAMCP do? You know,because there's there's a lot of
challenges in in themarketplace. So in the previous
question, you know, we asked,you know, what you can do. And
you do have to learn whatMicrosoft's mission is. You have
do have to learn what you canapply to your business that's
(33:02):
gonna be relevant to yourbusiness to help you grow your
business.
So whether it's licensing or thetechnical implementations or
application development,whatever your services are, you
have to do that. But in thepartner community, you know, we
have organizations like theIAMCP. What can they do better
to support the growth andcollaboration?
Anthony Carrano (33:21):
I don't know. I don't know how this would be
done, but just in hearing someof the stories of, especially
with the international, like forthose that are, let's say, if
you're here in The States andyou're wanting to do stuff
overseas or, you know, youroverseas partners doing stuff,
it'd be there might some of thismight already be in existence,
(33:42):
but just more of theinternational collaboration,
right? I mean, because I know alot of the stories, you know,
that then they tend to be thecollaboration tends to be within
region. You know, I don't know,where you know, like I would
think about like, so if I'velet's say if I'm a I'm a US
(34:04):
based partner and I have aclient here in The States, but
they're wanting to break into,let's say, an overseas market,
right? You know, how are thoseare there the relationships in
play?
You know, I don't know ifthere's an opportunity for how,
you know, IMCP can maybe helpfacilitate some of those type of
international type of am Imaking sense guys? I know I'm
(34:27):
kind of mumbling here orrambling a little bit, but I was
just thinking about because Iknow, you know, because a lot of
the stories we've done, it'sbeen collaboration within
region, but what about, youknow, collaboration across
region for the betterment of,you know, the customer and what
are maybe the mechanisms inplace to help facilitate those
type of internationalrelationship building. Does that
(34:49):
make sense?
Eddie Bader (34:51):
It does. And we do address that in the partnering
series that we have. We talkabout geo expansion into other
regions outside of your nativeregion. I think partner
opportunity groups, which meetonce a month, are also a great
way for you to connect withpartners outside of your region
(35:12):
or even your country and reallyunderstand what's going on in
other markets. Quite often, notexclusively, but quite often we
find that a lot of companies aretrying to land in The US.
Right? So we we have anopportunity to facilitate some
of those engagements. But I willalso say that there are a couple
(35:33):
of other things going on. Wehave business circles in EMEA,
solution circles in APAC, andthose are where, similar
organizations come together,maybe it's MSPs, maybe it's
Dynamics Partners. They cometogether, they talk about
everything.
And it's not just on theMicrosoft side, it's just the
(35:55):
business side. Like, hey, I'mgetting these margins. You're
getting those margins. How can Iget those margins? Right?
You're doing better than I am.What is it that you're doing?
And it's really like a businessconversation as opposed to just
a solution or a Microsoftconversation. I think those are
very helpful. But there's a lotof of content and I will say I
(36:17):
will highlight a couple ofcollaborations that I know of is
that IAMCP Spain has worked withIAMCP LatAm because they share a
common language of Spanish,obviously.
Right? We've had partners gofrom LatAm over to Spain and
vice versa. And because theyshare a common language, they
found a common thread for themto connect on, you know? And
(36:40):
then as a result, they arestarting to do business in those
areas, LatAm and Spain and Spainand LatAm. And I think that's a
wonderful example of how IAMCPcan facilitate those cross
border collaborations.
We we need to be doing more ofit and we are trying to do so
(37:01):
but anytime that you can sit ona sit on a call or, you know,
hang out in a different group. Ithink that's a huge opportunity,
and and some of that's in placealready. And sometimes you just
have to find it on the thecalendar and say, oh, I wanna be
a part of that because I'm gonnabe connected to a whole new
group of people. More of that,doing more of that, doing more
(37:26):
of right now we're in theprocess of we talked about that
Seattle Solutions Group. We arepurposely doing activations
throughout the community andgetting multiple chapters into a
room and saying, hey.
This is how we this is how itwas set up. Let's set it up in
your chapter. Let's set it up inyour region. And then,
(37:48):
ultimately, I'd like to see ithappen where we have a solutions
group that is a global solutionsgroup, partners from many
different regions involved and Ithink that's where we're headed.
But I think there's a ton ofopportunity and we just not got
to nail it down.
And then finally, and this is alittle peek into the future, we
(38:11):
are looking at a legitimatepurpose built partnering
platform that we hope toimplement here within the next
few months and that will alsohelp connect partners together a
little bit more easily and withmuch more relevance.
Rudy Rodriguez (38:26):
Great answer. Great answer there. And and, you
know, I think the answer is IMCPis doing a lot, doing an awful
lot. And and what partners cando, they should attend their
local chapter meetings and learnmore and also, view the website
because there's a lot ofinformation on the website and
then use the connection tool inthe website to connect with
(38:48):
other partners. That's a greatway to do it.
So I've got one last question,for the day, and this is also,
you know, continuing again alongthe lines of community and
collaboration. If you could giveone piece of advice to a new
partner entering the Microsoftecosystem, what would that be?
Eddie Bader (39:07):
Well, it's a good one. Alright. I'll give you two
answers. First one is if you'rea new partner and you're and you
become an IAMCP member, I wouldsay volunteer. Get involved in
some activity, whether youbecome a chair of a committee or
eventually you want to be partof a leadership team.
The more you get involved, themore people see you. Shows your
(39:31):
commitment to something outsideof just your organization. Think
it's a great way to getconnected to people. If you're
new into the ecosystem, I wouldsay connect with as many
partners and attend as manyMicrosoft led events as you can
(39:52):
and obviously community eventsas you can and really understand
who you are as an organization,what things you're going to
adopt in terms of, yes, I'mgoing go after solution
information, I'm going go aftercertain things, but really
define who you are, what yoursuperpower is, and be able to
share that in a very concisemessage. You know, we talked
(40:14):
about that elevator pitch, butreally have it dialed in because
it doesn't matter who you talkto, whether it's Microsoft and
their partner or a client, themore the easier it is for you to
convey that message, the moresuccess you're gonna have long
term.
That's my opinion. Becausepeople know what you do, who you
do it for, and how you do it. Ifyou can answer those questions
(40:36):
in ten, fifteen seconds, youreally have your stuff dialed
in, I think.
Anthony Carrano (40:44):
No. That that's really good. I I mean, I agree
with everything you just said. Ithink the thing I would just add
add to that, and this isespecially, you know, since
we've got technologists, right,that are they're part of the
community is that trustcompounds faster than
technology. And, just keep thatin mind that, you know, partners
(41:04):
who invest in credibility andtransparency, you're gonna see
faster results.
So, like, in addition to thethings, you know, a that you
were talking about, would just,you know, I mean, is is the key
part of what what makes thiswhole thing go. And it's kind of
I remember when we first startedoh, gosh. It's been a few years
(41:24):
now when we first startedtalking about, like, the IMC
brand and how's, you know thatthat you know it that brand you
know represents something it'sthat has that same effect that
you know like an AARP you knowbrand represents for trust right
or whatever you know the brandof trust represent you know it's
why people want to look to youknow, IAMCP you know, IAMCP
(41:47):
members to help them with theirend to end, you know, solution,
you know, finding those, youknow, trusted experts. It's why,
you know, thinking about, like,on the m and a, you know, side
of it, why these Microsoftcompanies that have the
reoccurring revenue and the IP,but they're Microsoft, you know,
partner, part of IAMCP, there'sthere's some higher valuations
there. There's there's trustthat's, you know, involved.
(42:11):
So anyway, I would justencourage people just to kinda
keep that in mind.
Eddie Bader (42:15):
And one thing we didn't talk about, but is is
very relevant is the transfer oftrust, the concept of transfer
of trust. And where that comesinto play is if if I introduce
you to somebody let's sayAnthony you're my client and I
introduce you to another partneryeah we have a trust
relationship that'sautomatically transferred to
(42:37):
this other person that I justintroduced you to it's not a
cold call. It's not evenslightly lukewarm. It's a, Hey,
if Eddie is saying you're good,then I'm taking his word. So for
me to refer somebody, I'm gonnamake sure that I'm not gonna
refer just anybody to you.
Right? And I'm not saying thisapplies not just to me, but to
(42:59):
all of us. Right? If we have arelationship and then we bring
somebody else in, there's thatyou're led into the quote
unquote inner circle, right? Andthat doorway is gated and
locked. And so for you to haveaccess, one, you have to earn
access to it. And two, it's avery, very powerful thing that
(43:21):
this community offers is thetransfer of trust and it can't
be overlooked in terms of itsvalue.
Anthony Carrano (43:27):
Sounds good. Sounds good. Well, Eddie, this
was fun. Really enjoyed havingyou on. I know we're looking
forward to the next twenty five.So you know, I'll sit when I say
I'll see you next year. I'm justtalking about here on the
podcast. And I appreciate you,man. Take care.
Eddie Bader (43:49):
Thanks. You too. Take care.
Anthony Carrano (43:53):
And that's a wrap on our two part anniversary
special. We've explored not onlythe foundations of successful
partnerships, but also theexciting trends shaping the
Microsoft partner community, AI,product innovation, and new
opportunities for growth andcollaboration, with expert
insights and fresh stories, aswell as reflection from our
guests shared experiences andpartner collaborations from
(44:15):
around the world. One of thebest ways to partner for success
is to join IAMCP, a community ofMicrosoft partners who help each
other grow and thrive. IAMCPmembers can find and connect
with other partners locally,globally, and access exclusive
resources and opportunities.Whether you're looking for new
customers, new markets, or newsolutions, IMCP can help you
(44:36):
achieve your goals.
To learn more, visit the websiteat www.imcp.org. Thank you for
being part of our community fortuning in through an entire year
of podcasting. Don't forget tofollow, rate and share. Your
support fuels the journey ahead.Until next time, keep
connecting, learning andgrowing.
Welcome back to the IAMCP Profiles and
Partnership podcast and part twoof our landmark episode, where
we dive deep into theconnections, lessons, and growth
stories within the Microsoftpartner community. I'm your
host, Anthony Carrano, and I'mthrilled to be joined again
today by two incredible voicesin the ecosystem, Eddie Bader
(00:26):
and Rudy Rodriguez. If youmissed part one, make sure to
check it out for stories oftrust and collaboration. Today,
we're leaping into the future,examining the seismic shifts in
the Microsoft ecosystem, frommergers and acquisitions to the
rise of AI, productization, andthe evolving role of partners.
Eddie, Rudy and I will sharelessons learned, actionable
insights and predictions forwhat's next.
(00:48):
Let's dive in.
Eddie Bader (00:51):
I'm gonna take a hard right turn on you guys and
just tell you I love Home Depot.And you're probably like, where
did that come from? And the thereason I said that because I
like tools. And I go in there, Ilook at tools, and I like
because they have a tool for,you know, all these things, very
specific purpose. You gotta doyour very general purpose like a
hammer or screwdriver to, hey,this is the tool that you need
(01:13):
to unscrew the, you know, thevalve in in the shower in the
wall.
Right? Without this, you can'tget it. Right? And I just think
that's awesome. I wanna buy themall even though I have no use
for them. And, eventually, I'mgonna end up like this little
mad scientist that somebodysays, oh, I need this. And I go
away for ten minutes and I comeback. Oh, here's the tool. Take
this and use it. You're you'regood.
(01:33):
But with all that said, even theeven an organization with the
sharpest focus, they need theright tools. And we know that
leads us to the conversationaround AI automation, data
driven decision making. And Ikinda wanted to talk more about
that and how partners are areturning to technology or turning
technology into tangiblebusiness outcomes.
Rudy Rodriguez (01:55):
Well, that's a really interesting topic because
it's it's fraught with peril. IfI could do it was it was
interesting when you talk about,you know, a AI and data aren't
tools. You know? They become thebackbones of how partners are
gonna build their valuepropositions. And and people the
(02:16):
partners who are going to becomethe winners in this industry are
people who combine innovationwith governance, customer
success metrics, measurable ROI.
So one of the things we wannatalk about is is can you share
any perspectives about theanticipated impact of Microsoft
(02:37):
Copilot and AI tools on partnerofferings? Because those that's
you know, we you know, evenMicrosoft's calling us, you
know, frontier partners now.We're at the start of a
revolution or start of a newfrontier. So what what do you
think is going to happen to tothe partner channel? What's the
impact of AI?
Eddie Bader (02:58):
Well, the the easiest thing is that, you know,
AI is the thread that's gonna besewn into every piece of fabric
there is. When you look at theway the Microsoft AI cloud
partner program is going toevolve, I'm I'm gonna make a
prediction here. It's not a verybold prediction, but it hasn't
been announced yet. But when welook at you know, they condensed
(03:19):
from six six solutiondesignations down to three.
They're in the process of doingthat.
It's it's very it's you know,we're just an announcement away
from having an AI componentbuilt into the achievement of
those solution designations.Right? It's like I said, it's
gonna be the the common threadin every fabric. And I think
(03:41):
those who lean forward, leaninto that frontier mindset, use
it internally. Right?
It's it's going to be part of ofeverything we do, like it or
not. But I think we should likeit. We should be building
solutions around it. We shouldbe using it to its its take full
(04:03):
advantage of what it can do forus. There's some things that we
can benefit from fromautomation, and I and I don't
look at this as necessarilyreplacing people.
I think it's replacing somethings that maybe people don't
have to do themselves, right,which allows them to focus on
higher level efforts. Right? Solet's say if if we were to
(04:26):
categorize this as traditionalcategorization tier one, two,
tier three, Right? Tier threebeing this special the special
need in in terms of the mosttechnical person. If you can,
like, take a layer out out ofthat, let's say that that tier
one out of the the equation withthe implementation of AI, it
(04:49):
allows you to skill skill upyour team and have a bunch of
tier twos and tier threes,whatever that whatever that
means in your context.
But I think it allows you to domore in-depth work, more
critical thinking type of work,and, you know, and I can go on.
But I do think this is gonna besomething that we build on. And
(05:10):
even though some of ourcustomers and clients may not
feel like they're ready forthis, it's coming. And so
whether whether they want it ornot, it's coming. And I think we
have to be that innovativebridge to to the use of this new
technology.
Right? And and really help themunderstand how it can be a
(05:31):
benefit to them and and howthey're gonna use it to grow and
thrive and and things of thatnature. But I don't know if that
totally answers your question,but I do think if you don't
adopt it and if you don't adoptit now, that everything's
changing so quickly, you'regonna be behind and you may not
be able to catch up if if you'renot adopting now. In six months,
(05:55):
we're gonna be having a verydifferent conversation around
this already.
Anthony Carrano (05:58):
Yeah. I don't know if I don't really feel
qualified to be able to talkabout predictions, I will say,
like, me, it's been fun to, asI've observed, obviously, you
know, as Microsoft'sincorporating, you know, you
know, Copilot and AI into intoeverything. What's been an
interesting thing as I've beenlearning and now, Rudy, don't
ask me a follow-up question onthis. Okay. Because you'll get
(06:19):
that deer in the headlightshere.
But it's what's been interestingas I've just kind of been
listening to some of our guestsand even in working with some
clients, just the just the notonly just the importance, but
how much of a gap there is in,AI governance. That part is, I
(06:42):
just, I don't know. I justcause, and I guess maybe just,
you know, being the marketer guylike, oh, you see the new tool,
let's start using it. Okay.How's all this stuff can create
cool stuff and increaseproductivity and, you know, get
better results and dah dah dahdah.
But then not realizingespecially like some of the
bigger, you know, companies howhow much governance, right,
which isn't, know, the cool sexything as like, you know, the
(07:04):
shiny tool to use, but it's socritical and just been hearing
our guests like talk about it.And there was a there was a
quote from Matt at Rencore inour latest episode, and I
thought this was just a greatline. He said automate the
boring, govern the critical. AIwithout governance is just chaos
at scale. And I just that's justso well put.
(07:27):
And so anyway, that's just kindof been one of those things
that's not, it's not really aprediction. There's just kind of
an interesting thing as I've,know, just been learning or
observing and learning as a aswe've been kind of talking with
these folks.
Rudy Rodriguez (07:43):
Yeah. So I to take AI and break it up just a
little bit because there'sgenerative AI like chat GPT, and
then there's agentic AI. And sotwo very different things. I'm
gonna throw a curveball at you.You may not have read this
article, but MIT put out a studythat 95% of generative AI
(08:05):
implementations fail. 95%. Andand so I think there's a real
opportunity there for partnersin in that if you understand,
and I'll put it into the contextbecause I I have a friend who's
a CTO at a at a big organizationhere in Austin. And, they
(08:26):
implemented both GPT and Copilotat the same time. Ready for
this? 92,000 users.
Oops. Forgot to secure theorganization. So ended up
(08:47):
costing a CIO his job because itwas chaotic. Right? Even though
his edict was, we're not doingthis yet. We're not doing this
yet. But departments went anddid it on their own. So have you
run into rogue organizationsthat are doing some of this? And
this is why these things fail.We know why they fail.
Right? You you must secure yourenvironment first, and
(09:08):
governance is a key piece of it.But there's an opportunity there
for partners, on generative AI,which a lot of our partners will
operate on. But then we'rehaving more and more partners
who are trying to becomespecialists in agentic AI. So
can you share a little bit aboutthat as to, what are the human
skills that partners have todouble down on to stay relevant
(09:29):
in both those areas?
Eddie Bader (09:31):
Yeah. Those are great questions. And I want to
go back to something I am goingto attribute to Satya, and I'm
pretty sure he's the one thatsaid it. But he said it's it's
Copilot for a reason because itworks with you. It's not
autopilot. Right? Autopilot willbe something different where it
(09:53):
works on its own. And we willhave some things that are
getting close to autopilot, butlet's talk about the Copilot and
Agentic AI. I think I'mfascinated by agentic AI. I'm
working on agents myself rightnow.
There is I I think it's undermaybe it's not, but in my
(10:16):
opinion, I feel like your skillsin prompting are are very
important. Right? Your promptshave a tremendous impact on the
end result whether it's even ifyou're just asking it to come up
with some copy for you or, youknow, put together some kind of
(10:37):
framework or whatever or evenwhen you're creating agents,
it's really based on on how youset this up. You know? What's
your tone? Is it friendly? Is itinformative? Is it, you know,
this is the way I want you torespond to to queries. This is
the way, you know, you should beanswering. This is the format.
Don't use any informationoutside of what I give you.
(10:59):
Okay. It's okay to go to thesesites. That skill is developed
over time. You know, I I don'tknow anybody who's produced
anything really worthwhile thatdid it from one one prompt.
Right? It's a it's an iterativeprocess and understanding how
that works. So I think that isis a key component is that I do
(11:21):
think well, I know right nowthere are actually courses in AI
prompting. Right? So that is askill set to have.
I also think that just theintegration of AI into some of
our other, what we wouldconsider more commonplace
technologies, right, how does AIwork with you know, Azure or
(11:46):
some other foundational elementsthat we use every day? How can
that enhance? Right? There's theCopilot piece, obviously, but
when we build these agents andthey're purpose built, how do we
get more from the same toolsthat we've been using for years?
Right?
And I think that goes back tothat whole innovator concept is
the people who are reallythinking about that, who are
(12:08):
really diving in, who arecreating like sandboxes and just
playing around and seeing whatthey can develop. I think
they're gonna be, you know, onthe leading edge of developing
what we see, you know, in inthree to six months and and
even, you know, a year from now.So I would say that things that
(12:28):
people should focus on is theirworking skills and their sandbox
skills. Take time to playbecause this is definitely, in
my opinion, this is definitely atechnology where you have to
play around with it, see whatyou get. And the fact that you
can can come in today, ask, youknow, prompt it a certain way,
(12:50):
and then tomorrow you can comein and prompt it the same way
and get two different results.
That's you know, there's there'scontinuity things. And and and
the other thing that you touchedon, which is hugely important,
is the big opportunity in thisspace is all the data governance
and locking down environmentsand making sure that you put all
(13:13):
those things in place and andmake you prepare an environment
to to adopt AI. I think that'sgonna be that's already at the
front of the list, and and thoseskills are gonna be super
important.
Anthony Carrano (13:27):
Rudy, I'd like to chime in on this one too,
when you were asking thatquestion, was thinking about,
you know, we talked about likethe, the human skill side of it.
And I was, you know, as you guysknow, I mean, I've, you know,
I've coached, you know,competitive basketball for a
while and something it remindedme of something I would tell my
players is be fast, but not in ahurry. And just the importance
of just when you're doing this,be intentional, You know, be,
(13:50):
you know, go for it. But bemethodical. Don't just be
haphazard.
And, so, you know, that's Ithink that's part of like, you
know, be intentional when you'redoing it. I think, you know,
part of it also is stay curious,keep learning, you know, set up,
you know, experiments where, youknow, it's so key in certain
(14:11):
situations where it's okay tofail. And, and to keep growing.
And I think part of that islike, I guess the, the, the last
thing would be is just to bepatient, you know, don't try and
get it all done. Like, you know,just that whole, you know, I
want to be in a hurry, you know,be fast, be intentional, but not
in a hurry, you know, kind oflike more of a, as a quality, a
(14:34):
human quality approach to it.
Rudy Rodriguez (14:37):
So let me ask a question about where, you know,
value creation, through AI isgonna be hugely important. So
how how does a partner educatehimself, or how does how does a
partner work with their clientto truly understand what their
stakeholders' motivations are?What you know, how how they do
(15:01):
they truly understand what thebusiness processes look like?
And then do they have a way toimprove those processes? Because
that's where AI is really gonnabring tremendous value in being
doing that.
And and there's several examplesof products that are already out
there that are doing that. We'vegot a client who has built
agents to monitor, MicrosoftSentinel. And what it does, it
(15:26):
is constant because they managelarge enterprise security
operations. It is constantlysearching for anomalies taking
place in a secure securityenvironment and is able to do
that and immediately mitigatethe risk if they see an anomaly.
And then depending on theseverity of the anomaly, it
(15:47):
notifies people and they canactually intervene and kill it
or sequester it some form orfashion.
So where where does you know,because that's that's something
that partners don't alwaysunderstand the business
processes. I was in applicationdevelopment where world, and you
understand a lot about businessprocesses doing that. And and,
(16:12):
how how does a partner gain someof those skills, and how can
IAMCP help them with some ofthose things?
Eddie Bader (16:18):
I think it's it's a very relevant question. And I do
think that it's one of thoseskill sets that, I don't know,
it's a bold statement, but Idon't think that'll ever go
away. Right? Really being ableto have a business conversation,
understand where an organizationis, where they wanna be, what
they're struggling with. Andreally, I don't know about your
(16:42):
experiences, but I've oftenfound that organizations feel
like there's some technologysilver bullet that's gonna solve
all their problems, and I don'tknow that that exists.
Oftentimes, it's adjustments intheir people, processes, and
technology that are required tomake that turn that organization
(17:03):
around or or make them moreprofitable. Being that that
human interaction, thatdiscussion is super important. I
think you can how you gain thoseskills, I think you gain it by
doing it. I think there's acertain level of compassion and
patience that are required tolisten to people, to understand
and then being able to filterwhat they're saying with what's
(17:27):
really going on and in terms ofhow IMCP can help I think we
have some really great examplesof people and organizations who
do this every day right and whenyou build those partnerships and
you share stories like we shareon the podcast, but when you
share your own stories and say,Hey, you know what? I know
you're an MSP. I'm an MSP.
(17:48):
You know, maybe the mindset iswe're competitors, but there's
an opportunity to collaboratehere. This is how this is one of
the problems I'm having. How doyou handle that in in your
everyday life? Right?
How do you how do you have thistype of conversation with a
client? How do you get them toshare what's important? What's
on their roadmap? What they'restruggling with? What's you
(18:11):
know, and really identify thosethose problems to solve.
And and we have partneringsessions. Right? Paul leads
these partnering sessions once amonth, and it's really strategic
about how to identify goodpartners but there's also some
really great nuggets in thereabout how to have conversations
(18:32):
how to position solutions allthose all those interactions I I
think they help. And I don'tthink I've nailed the answer on
this on this particular oneprecisely, but I will say that
that when you talked aboutskills, I think this skill of
being able to communicate withthe client and being able to
(18:54):
draw information out from themand understand what they're
they're struggling with is issuper impactful. Some people do
it through QBRs, quarterlybusiness reviews.
Some people do it in other ways.I've had relationships with
clients that they just call meup because we have that kind of
relationship where they I don'tknow what to do about this. Can
you take a look at this for me?This is a problem for us. It has
(19:16):
nothing to do with with thescope of work that I that we
have in place, but they'vereached out because they trust
me.
Right? And and a lot of it goesback to that that trust. So I
don't know if that's a greatanswer to your question, but I
do think that it is a skill. Itneeds to be nurtured, and the
more you do it, the better youget at it. And I don't think
(19:38):
that's going away anytime sooneven with even with as good as
AI may be and you know in the inthe future I still think there's
the human element that it can'tbe replaced.
Rudy Rodriguez (19:52):
Yeah. I'm gonna circle back to the trusted
adviser role that we talked alot about early on. If you're a
trusted adviser, then you as atrusted adviser can guide people
towards the technology. Pointout, this is a technology that
can help you with thisopportunity. Let the client make
the decision as well.
It's a joint decision, but youyou can spot the opportunity of
(20:16):
what you can help them with.This is a technology that's
gonna guide you there, and thatwill grow your business
relationship with your clientinfinitely instead of trying to
tell them AI will cureeverything because it just
won't.
Eddie Bader (20:27):
People like options. Right?
Rudy Rodriguez (20:30):
No. I I think the options are very important
for any client in that they haveto understand what the
opportunities are. And that's asa IT technologist, that's our
job is to, hey, there's anopportunity here. Here's how we
can take advantage of this, growrevenue, mitigate risk, you
know, etcetera, etcetera,etcetera. This is where we can
(20:51):
help you.
And and then you do that, andyou can demonstrate what your
expertise is to drive that aswell because that's true value
creation right there. Okay.Let's talk a little bit about
governance. So have you had muchexperience in in the era in this
new era of AI in how you governAI? And what are the challenges
(21:13):
that you're seeing there? Causethere's just a massive amount of
data coming through. Right?
Eddie Bader (21:18):
Yeah. I've heard the horror stories. And
obviously, AI in an environmentstarts exposing a lot of data to
to everyone, especially datathat you don't want to share,
like maybe salary informationor, you know, trade secrets, IP.
I know one thing is that I wouldnever implement an AI solution
(21:39):
without going through therigorous governance component of
it, And I would tell you rightnow that I wouldn't do that
myself. I there's a few partnersthat I know within the community
that specialize in governance, Iwould reach out to them first to
help us secure the environment.
And once we've secured theenvironment and put all the the
(22:01):
appropriate guardrails andboundaries in place, then we
could start talking aboutimplementation. And the other
thing is I would also not try toimplement 92,000 users all at
the same time.
You know that story. It's it'sjust that's like, when you said
that, I'd like, oh my goodness.I I don't even know how they
(22:22):
would even think aboutapproaching that. So, yeah, not
a lot of firsthand experiencesetting up those environments
because I would I would ask apartner to come in and do that
for me. But but it is important.
I have seen it go awry. I willsay that even within IAMCP and
and working within our owntenant, we're we're very mindful
(22:45):
of, trying to make sure thatwe're not exposing information
or not putting something in ourtenant that's going to expose
our members to anything thatthey wouldn't want to be exposed
to. And we have to keep privacypolicies GDPR, Californian
Privacy Act in mind. There's alot of factors and for somebody
(23:08):
who doesn't do it all the timethis is a wonderful case study
for partnership because thosefolks who specialize in this
they're up to date, they knowwhere the pitfalls are, they've
dealt with them, and they willask questions that you didn't
even think to ask to begin with.That's kind of my take on that
or at least my experience todate.
Rudy Rodriguez (23:28):
So I'm gonna jump ahead a little bit because
we've been on on for quite awhile today, and and I think
it's been a really valuableconversation. Let's talk about
partner led innovation. Youknow, we we deal with a variety
of different types of partnersout in the marketplace. Where do
you see the biggest opportunityfor innovation in the Microsoft
ecosystem in the next year ortwo?
Eddie Bader (23:50):
I'll be honest, we've had this conversation for
a little while now. I thinkproductization is gonna be key
moving forward. IP developmentand and really understanding
what that means. Right? Being aservice company and being
product company can be very twovery different animals, but
(24:14):
understanding what part of yourservices are actually a product,
you know, that recurring thingthat you do all the time, what
can be made into a quote unquotewidget that can be utilized by
anybody at anytime, anywhere?
I think more focus on that isgonna be key. I know Microsoft
is making a big push for forpartners to be in the
(24:36):
marketplace. There's a lotinvolved in that and I think
partners need to think aboutthat carefully in terms of it's
a good fit for us. If we go inthe marketplace, how do we make
sure that widget just doesn'tsit on the shelf with every
other widget that's out there,right? There's a lot to it.
I think that you and Anthony inparticular, being on the
(24:58):
marketing side, you kind ofunderstand what it takes to
really put a product, you know,go from design innovation and
having it on the shelf to actualpeople buying it, right? And
there's a lot of things going onthere, but I would see that
innovation is 100% going to havesome component of AI built into
(25:19):
it. But I do think that movingforward we are going to do a few
things. We're going to have tothink about productization.
We're going to have to thinkabout verticalization.
Right? The more that youspecialize in, this goes back to
the conversations we had earlierin in in this conversation, your
specialty along with yourinnovation is gonna lead to some
(25:42):
IP that sets you apart in themarketplace. I think those are
going to be key focuses for allpartners. And each partner is
going to have to understand howthey approach that as some may
be ready to do it now, some maynot. But it is something that I
would encourage every partner toconsider. Even if they don't end
(26:02):
up doing it, they should thinkabout it.
Anthony Carrano (26:04):
I was just going to piggyback on that about
all those things that Eddie justmentioned and just encourage
listeners to really lean in onpairing that with like that deep
industry, you know, expertisewith their proprietary IP,
because then the more you know,you know, about your customer
(26:24):
and find those just those thoseunique needs for that industry.
If you can be positioned toserve those, you in essence then
are are are you're not gonnareally have the competition,
know, that you would if you're,you know, providing, you know,
like a general, you know,widget, you know, that can apply
(26:45):
to everybody. But if you can getreally specific and create those
series of very specific industryresources and tools, that would
be something I would like I Iwould wanna see.
Rudy Rodriguez (26:57):
I think the productization becomes very
important because Anthony, asyou know, we always talk about
customers who don't understandwhat offer they need to make to
their customers. And one of thethings that we've seen the
evolution of of business is youhave to make it easier for the
customer to understand what itis you do, how you do it, and
(27:19):
what price you're doing it at,and how you can compartmentalize
that because, you know, one ofthe one of the biggest sales
phrases that will kill a salefaster than anything is, you
know, when a customer asks you,how do you do this and how much
is it gonna cost? And youanswer, well, depends. That just
(27:40):
kills everything right then andthere. You have to be clear
about your offer and what you'redoing.
And a lot of partners don'trealize that they can
compartmentalize that and say,this takes this long and this
does it. And that's somethingthat I've seen changes in the
marketplace where people arejust saying, hey. This
implementation is x amount ofdollars. That's it. That's it.
(28:01):
And they've gone through theeffort to to identify that IP
that's required to do an expertimplementation. And I think
that's really important.
Eddie Bader (28:10):
I'm gonna add to that and just say that and and
please correct me if if you feelI'm off base here, but buyer
personas are changing. Right? Ifyou generationally, we are
moving from a few generationswho are used to this the
standardized sale process.Right? Let's have a meeting.
Let's talk about SOW. Let'slet's scope this out. Here's
(28:32):
project plus 20% for every youknow that sales cycle is long
and it can be tedious at timesand when we see this the new
generations come into theecosystem they're researching
everything on their own If theysee something and they can buy
it they're gonna potentiallyjust buy it right off the
shelves. So even something assimple as do you have a shopping
(28:55):
cart on your website wherepeople can buy your services or
your product? Can they buy iteasily?
And I think we've put a lot ofbarriers in front of the
purchasing process and I wouldlike to see more partners make
it very easy to consume theirproduct. To your point Anthony
or I mean, really be veryconfident in what they're
(29:17):
providing. We've seen hugesuccess with folks that have
just a flat fee for thisparticular implementation.
Because they know how to do it,they've done it hundreds of
times or thousands of times andthey've got it dialed in. So I
would just say that that'sanother key thing to to think
(29:41):
about is that buyer personas arechanging. Not everybody wants to
be in a conversation with you.They just wanna buy it. So take
as many obstacles out of thatbuying process as possible.
Rudy Rodriguez (29:53):
Okay. Got one other question, you know,
because we get this, from fromIAMCP members all all the time.
But how can partners align withMicrosoft's broader mission? And
is that best for their business?
Anthony Carrano (30:07):
I got a short answer for this one, Eddie. One,
join IMCP. Two-
Eddie Bader (30:14):
That's a great answer.
Anthony Carrano (30:15):
That's it. Go to the meetings and join the
programs. Three, read your bitsand bytes, right? And if you
don't know what that is, you gotto join a chapter and show up.
But in all seriousness, just,you know, especially for the
unmanaged partners is you got tosign up and get involved.
(30:38):
I don't know Eddie you gotsomething you want to expound on
that?
Eddie Bader (30:41):
Yeah, I'll just try and make this quick. I think as
an organization we've done a lotof good work in providing
content that's relevant andtrying to help partners
understand the relevant aspectsof being a Microsoft partner. So
we have sessions on partnering,we have sessions on sales and
(31:02):
marketing, we have sessions onpartner enablement, really
trying to help partners focus inon the things that are going to
drive their business forward. Sothere's that component of it.
But it also comes down toexecution.
And I think being a Microsoftpartner, you know, it's like
drinking from a fire hose,right? And not everything that
(31:23):
is out there is something thatan organization should be
involved in. So to Ruth's point,you have to really take some
time and be strategic with whatyou decide to go after
understand why you're goingafter it what you're what you
expect the benefits to be andthen and then just dedicate it
if you're going go get asolution designation then just
be singularly focused becauseyou can make it happen. If
(31:46):
that's not in the cards for you,don't do it because somebody
else is telling you. Do itbecause it's gonna benefit your
business.
Right? And every eachorganization has to make that
decision upon themselves. Butthe INSP is a great place to
talk to the people who are doingit, talk to people who have made
the same decision you're making,and so the people who haven't
made the same decision. And alsocontent, we've got a lot of
(32:10):
great people and organizationsin the community with a lot of
knowledge who are willing toshare that and I think that's
huge benefit of being part ofthis global community.
Rudy Rodriguez (32:23):
Well, we're almost through for the day, but
I do wanna ask you, you know, inwhat one way could IAMCP or
could the partner communityevolve to better support growth
and and collaboration?
Anthony Carrano (32:35):
Are you, thinking, like, from our
perspective or from theperspective of from the, from
the episodes?
Rudy Rodriguez (32:41):
From a membership perspective, what
could IAMCP do? You know,because there's there's a lot of
challenges in in themarketplace. So in the previous
question, you know, we asked,you know, what you can do. And
you do have to learn whatMicrosoft's mission is. You have
do have to learn what you canapply to your business that's
(33:02):
gonna be relevant to yourbusiness to help you grow your
business.
So whether it's licensing or thetechnical implementations or
application development,whatever your services are, you
have to do that. But in thepartner community, you know, we
have organizations like theIAMCP. What can they do better
to support the growth andcollaboration?
Anthony Carrano (33:21):
I don't know. I don't know how this would be
done, but just in hearing someof the stories of, especially
with the international, like forthose that are, let's say, if
you're here in The States andyou're wanting to do stuff
overseas or, you know, youroverseas partners doing stuff,
it'd be there might some of thismight already be in existence,
(33:42):
but just more of theinternational collaboration,
right? I mean, because I know alot of the stories, you know,
that then they tend to be thecollaboration tends to be within
region. You know, I don't know,where you know, like I would
think about like, so if I'velet's say if I'm a I'm a US
(34:04):
based partner and I have aclient here in The States, but
they're wanting to break into,let's say, an overseas market,
right? You know, how are thoseare there the relationships in
play?
You know, I don't know ifthere's an opportunity for how,
you know, IMCP can maybe helpfacilitate some of those type of
international type of am Imaking sense guys? I know I'm
(34:27):
kind of mumbling here orrambling a little bit, but I was
just thinking about because Iknow, you know, because a lot of
the stories we've done, it'sbeen collaboration within
region, but what about, youknow, collaboration across
region for the betterment of,you know, the customer and what
are maybe the mechanisms inplace to help facilitate those
type of internationalrelationship building. Does that
(34:49):
make sense?
Eddie Bader (34:51):
It does. And we do address that in the partnering
series that we have. We talkabout geo expansion into other
regions outside of your nativeregion. I think partner
opportunity groups, which meetonce a month, are also a great
way for you to connect withpartners outside of your region
(35:12):
or even your country and reallyunderstand what's going on in
other markets. Quite often, notexclusively, but quite often we
find that a lot of companies aretrying to land in The US.
Right? So we we have anopportunity to facilitate some
of those engagements. But I willalso say that there are a couple
(35:33):
of other things going on. Wehave business circles in EMEA,
solution circles in APAC, andthose are where, similar
organizations come together,maybe it's MSPs, maybe it's
Dynamics Partners. They cometogether, they talk about
everything.
And it's not just on theMicrosoft side, it's just the
(35:55):
business side. Like, hey, I'mgetting these margins. You're
getting those margins. How can Iget those margins? Right?
You're doing better than I am.What is it that you're doing?
And it's really like a businessconversation as opposed to just
a solution or a Microsoftconversation. I think those are
very helpful. But there's a lotof of content and I will say I
(36:17):
will highlight a couple ofcollaborations that I know of is
that IAMCP Spain has worked withIAMCP LatAm because they share a
common language of Spanish,obviously.
Right? We've had partners gofrom LatAm over to Spain and
vice versa. And because theyshare a common language, they
found a common thread for themto connect on, you know? And
(36:40):
then as a result, they arestarting to do business in those
areas, LatAm and Spain and Spainand LatAm. And I think that's a
wonderful example of how IAMCPcan facilitate those cross
border collaborations.
We we need to be doing more ofit and we are trying to do so
(37:01):
but anytime that you can sit ona sit on a call or, you know,
hang out in a different group. Ithink that's a huge opportunity,
and and some of that's in placealready. And sometimes you just
have to find it on the thecalendar and say, oh, I wanna be
a part of that because I'm gonnabe connected to a whole new
group of people. More of that,doing more of that, doing more
(37:26):
of right now we're in theprocess of we talked about that
Seattle Solutions Group. We arepurposely doing activations
throughout the community andgetting multiple chapters into a
room and saying, hey.
This is how we this is how itwas set up. Let's set it up in
your chapter. Let's set it up inyour region. And then,
(37:48):
ultimately, I'd like to see ithappen where we have a solutions
group that is a global solutionsgroup, partners from many
different regions involved and Ithink that's where we're headed.
But I think there's a ton ofopportunity and we just not got
to nail it down.
And then finally, and this is alittle peek into the future, we
(38:11):
are looking at a legitimatepurpose built partnering
platform that we hope toimplement here within the next
few months and that will alsohelp connect partners together a
little bit more easily and withmuch more relevance.
Rudy Rodriguez (38:26):
Great answer. Great answer there. And and, you
know, I think the answer is IMCPis doing a lot, doing an awful
lot. And and what partners cando, they should attend their
local chapter meetings and learnmore and also, view the website
because there's a lot ofinformation on the website and
then use the connection tool inthe website to connect with
(38:48):
other partners. That's a greatway to do it.
So I've got one last question,for the day, and this is also,
you know, continuing again alongthe lines of community and
collaboration. If you could giveone piece of advice to a new
partner entering the Microsoftecosystem, what would that be?
Eddie Bader (39:07):
Well, it's a good one. Alright. I'll give you two
answers. First one is if you'rea new partner and you're and you
become an IAMCP member, I wouldsay volunteer. Get involved in
some activity, whether youbecome a chair of a committee or
eventually you want to be partof a leadership team.
The more you get involved, themore people see you. Shows your
(39:31):
commitment to something outsideof just your organization. Think
it's a great way to getconnected to people. If you're
new into the ecosystem, I wouldsay connect with as many
partners and attend as manyMicrosoft led events as you can
(39:52):
and obviously community eventsas you can and really understand
who you are as an organization,what things you're going to
adopt in terms of, yes, I'mgoing go after solution
information, I'm going go aftercertain things, but really
define who you are, what yoursuperpower is, and be able to
share that in a very concisemessage. You know, we talked
(40:14):
about that elevator pitch, butreally have it dialed in because
it doesn't matter who you talkto, whether it's Microsoft and
their partner or a client, themore the easier it is for you to
convey that message, the moresuccess you're gonna have long
term.
That's my opinion. Becausepeople know what you do, who you
do it for, and how you do it. Ifyou can answer those questions
(40:36):
in ten, fifteen seconds, youreally have your stuff dialed
in, I think.
Anthony Carrano (40:44):
No. That that's really good. I I mean, I agree
with everything you just said. Ithink the thing I would just add
add to that, and this isespecially, you know, since
we've got technologists, right,that are they're part of the
community is that trustcompounds faster than
technology. And, just keep thatin mind that, you know, partners
(41:04):
who invest in credibility andtransparency, you're gonna see
faster results.
So, like, in addition to thethings, you know, a that you
were talking about, would just,you know, I mean, is is the key
part of what what makes thiswhole thing go. And it's kind of
I remember when we first startedoh, gosh. It's been a few years
(41:24):
now when we first startedtalking about, like, the IMC
brand and how's, you know thatthat you know it that brand you
know represents something it'sthat has that same effect that
you know like an AARP you knowbrand represents for trust right
or whatever you know the brandof trust represent you know it's
why people want to look to youknow, IAMCP you know, IAMCP
(41:47):
members to help them with theirend to end, you know, solution,
you know, finding those, youknow, trusted experts. It's why,
you know, thinking about, like,on the m and a, you know, side
of it, why these Microsoftcompanies that have the
reoccurring revenue and the IP,but they're Microsoft, you know,
partner, part of IAMCP, there'sthere's some higher valuations
there. There's there's trustthat's, you know, involved.
(42:11):
So anyway, I would justencourage people just to kinda
keep that in mind.
Eddie Bader (42:15):
And one thing we didn't talk about, but is is
very relevant is the transfer oftrust, the concept of transfer
of trust. And where that comesinto play is if if I introduce
you to somebody let's sayAnthony you're my client and I
introduce you to another partneryeah we have a trust
relationship that'sautomatically transferred to
(42:37):
this other person that I justintroduced you to it's not a
cold call. It's not evenslightly lukewarm. It's a, Hey,
if Eddie is saying you're good,then I'm taking his word. So for
me to refer somebody, I'm gonnamake sure that I'm not gonna
refer just anybody to you.
Right? And I'm not saying thisapplies not just to me, but to
(42:59):
all of us. Right? If we have arelationship and then we bring
somebody else in, there's thatyou're led into the quote
unquote inner circle, right? Andthat doorway is gated and
locked. And so for you to haveaccess, one, you have to earn
access to it. And two, it's avery, very powerful thing that
(43:21):
this community offers is thetransfer of trust and it can't
be overlooked in terms of itsvalue.
Anthony Carrano (43:27):
Sounds good. Sounds good. Well, Eddie, this
was fun. Really enjoyed havingyou on. I know we're looking
forward to the next twenty five.So you know, I'll sit when I say
I'll see you next year. I'm justtalking about here on the
podcast. And I appreciate you,man. Take care.
Eddie Bader (43:49):
Thanks. You too. Take care.
Anthony Carrano (43:53):
And that's a wrap on our two part anniversary
special. We've explored not onlythe foundations of successful
partnerships, but also theexciting trends shaping the
Microsoft partner community, AI,product innovation, and new
opportunities for growth andcollaboration, with expert
insights and fresh stories, aswell as reflection from our
guests shared experiences andpartner collaborations from
(44:15):
around the world. One of thebest ways to partner for success
is to join IAMCP, a community ofMicrosoft partners who help each
other grow and thrive. IAMCPmembers can find and connect
with other partners locally,globally, and access exclusive
resources and opportunities.Whether you're looking for new
customers, new markets, or newsolutions, IMCP can help you
(44:36):
achieve your goals.
To learn more, visit the websiteat www.imcp.org. Thank you for
being part of our community fortuning in through an entire year
of podcasting. Don't forget tofollow, rate and share. Your
support fuels the journey ahead.Until next time, keep
connecting, learning andgrowing.
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