If you’ve ever felt like no matter how hard you work, you still feel exhausted, stuck, or unmotivated — this episode will shift everything you thought you knew about burnout.
In this deeply grounding conversation, I, Nikisha King, sit down with Kathryn Spears, a Neurosomatic Intelligence Practitioner, to uncover what’s really happening beneath the surface of burnout — and why mindset alone isn’t enough to create sustainable change.
Kathryn shares her personal story of anxiety, perfectionism, and constant performance pressure — and how learning to regulate her nervous system completely transformed her business, her energy, and her peace.
Together, we explore the connection between your body and your business, and how restoring safety in your nervous system helps you show up with clarity, confidence, and creativity. Because sometimes the thing that’s holding you back isn’t your strategy — it’s your state.
You’ll walk away from this episode understanding how to slow down without losing momentum, how to create safety in your success, and how to finally build a business that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside.
In This Episode, You’ll Takeaway:
- Why burnout is often a sign of a dysregulated nervous system, not a lack of effort
- How to use small, science-backed tools like breathwork and mouth taping to increase energy
- The link between safety, visibility, and leadership in your business
- Why nervous system alignment is the secret to sustainable success
- How to simplify your workflow to avoid overwhelm and create consistency
Enjoy a special gift from Kathryn Spears: Uncover Your Subconscious Saboteurs with her special quiz.
Connect with Kathryn Spears:
If this episode spoke to you, it’s time to go deeper into your own transformation.
Join me inside The Disruptive Chronicles — a weekly love letter for women entrepreneurs who are ready to rise with alignment, clarity, and confidence.
👉🏾 Sign up for The Disruptive Chronicles here.
Let’s redefine what success feels like: calm, clear, and completely yours.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome with your host andbusiness guru, Nakisha King.
This podcast is the ultimatedestination for women creative entrepreneurs
who want to break free from burnout.
If you are overwhelmed byclient demands and feel like you're
doing this all alone, you, myfriend, are in the right place.
(00:23):
Now let's dive in for steps totake back your time and self, simplify
your workflow.
All right, Nikisha, take it away.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to Iconic CEO Podcast,where free spirits go to learn systems.
(00:45):
My name is Nikisha.
I'm your host today and I havea special guest for you guys.
Her name is Katherine Spears.
Now I'm going to introduceKatherine Spears because she's very
dynamic and I want you to getto know who she is, her power, and
we're going to have a reallygood conversation about becoming
an iconic CEO and how to allowyour nervous system to work with
you rather than against you.
(01:05):
So first and foremost,Katherine Spears is a neurosomatic
intelligence practitioner.
She's also a director ofmarketing and communications as at
Neurosematic Intelligence, theglobal leader in neurosomatics with
a background in psychology anda passion for making brain science
practical thinking.
Thank you very much.
(01:26):
Katherine helps high achievingfemale founders like you, disruptors
and trailblazers who've donethe inner work but still feel stuck,
break free from repeatingpatterns and expand their capacity
at a nervous system level.
After walking away from athriving corporate marketing career
in the startup world,Katherine discovered that true lasting
(01:48):
transformation doesn't comefrom mindset alone.
It starts in the body.
Known for her direct, yetrelatable approach, she bridges neuroscience
and somatics into actionabletools that create sustainable change.
Whether she's coaching one onone, leading workshops, or speaking
on stage, her mission is tohelp women feel safe being seen and
(02:11):
heard, sparking a rippleeffect that reshapes not just their
lives, but the culture around them.
And based on the east coast ofCanada, Katherine is a late diagnosed
adher, mom of two, wife anddog lover, often found sipping kumbacha.
Katherine, welcome to theIconic CEO podcast.
(02:33):
It's a pleasure to have you.
Thank you so much for havingme, Nikisha.
Yes.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your somatic work.
Not your somatic butneurosomatic work.
How did you start or like,what came about for you to put you
on this journey?
Yeah, I mean, my entire life,I can remember since I was 12, you
know, being diagnosed with aflurry of random symptoms, gut issues,
(02:57):
anxiety, depression, later inlife, late diagnosed adhd.
But I always was really likehigh functioning and Go, go, go.
Do, do, do.
And one of the most pivotalmoments was when I was on the C suite
team at a fast paced agencyand they brought in a mental health
fitness group and we had tosit in silence for two minutes.
(03:19):
And that silence for twominutes, I thought I was actually
going to combust.
And so in that moment I waslike, oh, this is not how it's meant
to be.
But when I was doing what youknow, most people, quote unquote
say is healing, you know, likebreath work, meditation things, therapy
sessions, sitting in silence,like feeling my feelings, that wasn't
(03:41):
actually safe for me.
And I was moving into what Iknow now is another stress response.
So now I'm on this fiercemission to educate and support women
on how to capitalize withtheir brain and apply neurology to
go back further into the cycleand create safety at a physiological
(04:01):
state level so that they cancreate sustainable change.
So in that moment I knewsomething is not okay.
And then the shame reallyspiraled me into like finding something
that would support me inmaking change.
You say this shame, what areyou referring to?
For me it's like there's somuch that was being thrown out at
me, you know, like, do this,do that, like get your steps in,
(04:23):
drink this much water, wake upat 5am like, you know, the list goes
on.
There's so many differentthings that are kind of thrown at
us as ways or means to help usto feel better.
And I couldn't stick withthose things because they weren't
in alignment for me or I wasmoving into another stress response.
And so what that made me feelwas something was wrong with me,
(04:43):
right?
Because all of these otherwomen were having success in meditating
or doing breath work or goingto a yoga class or sitting in a therapy
session.
And for me it was like I feltlike I was just spinning my tires
on this never ending cyclerepeating over and over again.
And so I really internalizedthat and, and felt like something
(05:03):
was wrong with me, which camewith a major shame response.
Let me ask you, what made youfeel like you had to do all these
things?
Like, what was the drivingfactor behind that made it feel like,
like that's the part I want to know.
Because when we think aboutall those things, for me I'm like,
yeah, I don't want to do all that.
Like, I'll just, I'll just dothe one I want.
I don't got time for all that.
(05:24):
I'm really adamant about that.
But for you, there's somethingthat I want.
My audience to hear becausesome women do feel like they need
to do all the things and theyhave the same response you do.
So for you, what was that?
I think my, I mean, I thoughtI needed to be fixed.
I thought there was somethingwrong with me and it was just really
my high achievingperfectionist patterns being projected
(05:49):
onto my healing journey.
Right.
So instead of living those inmy everyday life, which I still was,
but it was like a deep rootedsurvival response that then was being
cast over top of my healingjourney, which I see with so many
women that I work with,especially like high achieving type
A perfectionists.
You know, they're like, okay,well I need the plan.
(06:10):
I need to do exactly what.
And it's a lot of outsourcing.
Our own inner wisdom andexternal validation, which are really
nervous system protective responses.
Okay, so you're part of aseries that I call but what if where
I get to disrupt the thinkingthat we have in building our business,
being very high achieving,iconic CEOs.
(06:34):
And I want to ask you aquestion, I want to ask you, but
what if you're not stuck,you're just deregulated based on
what you teaching.
So many high achieving womensay, I've done the mindset work,
I've invested in coaching, butI still feel like I'm looping back
into the same pattern.
Can you help us understandwhat's actually happening in the
(06:56):
nervous system when we feelstuck or resistance to change even
when we know better?
You know, there's so manypeople go, I know, but I'm not doing
it.
And I'm like, well, what'shappening in the brain that's causing
that?
Yes.
So there is a massive, for the brain.
Okay.
Number one, it's predictive.
(07:17):
And so it's really constantlylooping on, taking in information,
vetting if it's safe or, orunsafe at a subconscious level, and
then deciding before consciousawareness if it is safe or unsafe
based on like a number ofdifferent inputs and can be our respiration,
our heart rate, past livedexperiences, implicit bias.
(07:40):
Like there's so many, I callthem like the rose colored glasses
of the filtration system.
So we actually aren't evencognitively deciding safe or unsafe.
Our subconscious is.
And then we're either up tothe prefrontal cortex, which is where
we can make logical cognitivedecisions, or we're in our like survival
brain, where, you know, that'sthe part of the brain that's activated
(08:03):
when we meet a bear in thewoods, but it's often being activated
when we're getting an email orwe're seeing like a glance between
two people and we sense thatthreat at a subconscious level.
And so the other piece.
So number one, it's theinterpretation system based on predictions
of our brain and pastexperiences, even if we don't cognitively
remember.
(08:23):
And then the second piece tothat is the resistance to change.
And for the brain, any changeis very energetically taxing.
And so the brain will alwayschoose the familiar, even the familiar,
hell, right.
Over an unknown.
Even if cognitively we wantthis more than anything.
(08:45):
You know, we're on this fiercemission and then we see it come up
in different copingmechanisms, different behavioral
outputs.
Avoidance, procrastination,imposter syndrome, inner critic.
All of those things are reallymeant, meant to be protective patterns
that hold you back from doingthe thing or keeping you safe and
(09:07):
connected to the herd.
Yeah, that's such a good.
I love the point that youbring up the brain through loving
the safeness of it.
Right.
So even when you want tochange, it is like, no, no, keep
even in the hell, let's keepdoing this.
I know this, I don't know that.
Right, exactly.
It's such a huge energetic cost.
And when we're low energy anda lot of high achieving women are
(09:30):
at a physiological level, whatends up happening is the brain's
like, no, no, we don't haveenergy for this.
We need to store our energyand keep doing the same thing.
Exactly.
So here's the thing also, I'min a beautiful container where I'm
in a mastermind, which I lovecreating for my community.
And capacity is what we talk about.
Because in what you've justdescribed with the brain, it's really
(09:53):
not about I can do hardthings, it's about can I increase
my capacity to shift theenergy into the thing that I know
will be better for me.
And what does that look like?
And it is an option, it is a choice.
And it's a choice you have tomake consciously.
But you have to also fight foryour choice.
It's like you are fightingyour brain just to be able to live
(10:15):
the life you want to.
Because if you don't, it willgive you the status quo of what you've
been conditioned to believe.
Right.
And it's so good when you areaware of this.
And I think we're bringingthis to the awareness because some
people don't realize that'sthe case.
So I want you to tell us whatis some of the actions we can't take
(10:36):
to push forward, to push outof the low energy Stay here where
it's safe.
Because the reason I know it'spossible is because I did it.
I remember sitting here andhaving that moment where I'm like,
I'm playing it too small andthis sucks and I had to go.
And I did have coaching communities.
I was in online, a sales group.
I was in one to one for my systems.
(10:58):
And even though I bought itfor systems, that woman was doing
some work on me that I didn'tknow, which I loved.
When I was in it, I didn'tlove it.
I was just like, no, that isnot the case.
Right.
Like, but she was so patientwith me and it changed my life.
But there was somethinghappening that I don't know if I
was ever aware of, that Iliterally pushed forward even.
(11:19):
And I don't feel like I, whenI was in that moment with her, I'm
going to be honest, theinvestments I had to make felt like
they pulled me out of low energy.
When I invested in myselfsomething bigger than I've done before.
And it felt uncomfortable.
The stretch made me feel like,you, you got to do it, you got to
show up, you got to keep moving.
Like, I didn't haveopportunity to be like, I'm just
(11:41):
not going to do that becauseit doesn't feel comfortable for me.
You know what I mean?
So I want you to tell me alittle bit more.
I'm so inquisitive about thiswhole part about that.
Yeah.
And so a lot of women have theexperience of really leveraging the
mindset and like pushingagainst their upper limits, their
edges, while other people, Iwould consider myself this other
(12:02):
kind of camp of people,despite trying everything and like
being all in that subconsciouswas really just winning every time.
Every single time.
And so what I did was startedwhen I learned about neurosmatics,
it really changed everythingbecause what I started to do is instead
of working in my mindset,which was locked in, you know, like
(12:24):
I knew what I wanted, I wasready to get after it, I went back
into the inputs.
So from a neurologicalperspective, when I said earlier,
like, we're taking ininformation, we're taking it in through
a ton of different systems andthere can be threat within any of
those systems from any otherpast lived experience, any physical,
(12:46):
emotional traumas that you'reaware of or unaware of that create
that threat.
So by working with appliedneurology and working in those systems,
we clear up the, thegatekeeper, we clear up the filtration
system, and when we clear upthe filtration system that your information
is Being vetted by your brain,what ends up happening is it starts
(13:09):
to default, then more intosafe, instead of constantly into
threat.
So when we're in survival modefor so long, you know, they say neurons
that fire together, wiretogether, it becomes the default
pattern to move into thesurvival brain where we can't actually
tap into the mindset despiteknowing it.
So when we start to clear upthose inputs in our visual system,
(13:31):
in our respiration system, inour body map, what ends up happening
is we start to stop pullingrank and moving directly into the
survival response and startactually moving into we are safe
so that we can access thatinformation and make change.
So that's where it really allstarted to shift for me.
(13:51):
Because after chronic stressfor so long, my bracing patterns
and my breathing and chronicpain were really working against
me.
And so I was able to untangleit at the root so that that safety
was created, that capacity wascreated and I was resourced to be
able to tap into the mindsetand make those changes and work against
(14:12):
my brain, you know, in a, in away that wasn't burning me out.
Do me a favor, I want you tobe able to translate that into what
we experiences as womenentrepreneurs or creative entrepreneurs.
How does that look in our business?
Give us examples of what's happening.
How can we be mindful that weknow there's a tanglement in the
base and how would we untangle that?
(14:33):
Like what is that in that term?
So they can relate to it.
Yeah, it can show up in somany ways.
I mean, anytime.
Perfectionism, impostersyndrome, like any of the major things
that come up, fear in business.
Right.
Meeting a new goal or wantingto hit your next big, you know, seven
figure launch or what have you.
(14:53):
And all of the things thatcome up with that.
It's such a heavy stress load.
And so we need to actually beable to signal to the brain.
Yeah, the heavy stress load.
Because something's happening.
Because people define heavy.
Yes, they do.
So, and I will tell you, Iwould have told you a million times,
like I'm not stressed.
And here's the piece that'sthe big difference maker is that
(15:15):
it's a state shift that'shappening at a physiological level
that we don't actually evenhave conscious awareness that it's
happening.
And the tax to the body isjust so massive because we're abandoning
self and then what ends uphappening is the sensations that
we feel aren't safe, so thenwe actually disconnect from the body
(15:37):
even more.
So we can't feel when ourheartbeats racing, we can't feel,
when our palms are sweaty, andwe just keep pushing and showing
up.
And then what ends uphappening is the nervous system just
gets louder.
We have a louder inner critic,a louder perfectionist, a louder
judgment.
We may have migraines,headaches, burnout cycles, all of
(15:58):
the things.
I also see this a lot withwomen that really want to, like,
hit that, like, seven figures.
And then when they do, it'snot enough.
Right?
Like, it's also they can'tfeel the joy.
So if you can't feel thestress or for the fear that comes
up, they're also not actuallyliving in the present moment of feeling
the joy and letting the winland too.
(16:19):
Right?
That is the norm.
And I think that's the normfor a lot of entrepreneurs.
No matter the agenda.
Right.
Because I'm not going toignore the male CEO or entrepreneur
because we all experience thesame physiological and mental changes
and burnout.
And it's about identifying it.
How do you know?
(16:39):
Because I'm going to behonest, I love what I do, but there
are moments I sacrifice megetting out and doing my daily walks
for sitting at my desk 12hours a day.
Right.
And as much as I love what Ido, my body is saying, nikisha, we
don't love what you're doingbecause we're hurting when you sleep
and you have that ache andyou're like, what is this?
(16:59):
Right?
And I love what you said aboutyour body starts to yell at you,
and I'm just like, okay.
And I had to put things in play.
Like, my ballroom dancing iswhat I use to help me get out of
my head into my heart, butalso move my body, you know?
And there's more things Iwould like to add because that's
not just enough, there's moreof it.
So I love that you clearlyallowed us to see what that looks
(17:21):
like.
Now, one of the things youtalk about is helping women feel
safe being seen and heard.
And I want to know, how do I.
Our past experience,especially moments where we feel
misunderstood or invisible,shape our nervous system's ability
to take up space in today's world.
Absolutely.
I mean, from a social andrelational perspective, you know,
(17:45):
human connection is a core,basic need that.
That we need to thrive and bealive as humans.
And so when we are showing upand invisibility, it is a massive
stress load, right?
We are showing up.
We are being our authentic selves.
We are opening the door tojudgment, troll hatred, especially
(18:07):
when we are making impactsthat are huge or polarizing Statements
or, you know, hoping to makean impact of change.
It comes with a massive stress load.
And I always talk about when Iwas in corporate, I loved, I loved
to present.
And afterwards I would beexhausted or like peopled out.
(18:28):
And, and that was reallybecause I wasn't present in the moment
or embodied because it wasn'tsafe to be.
And that comes from, you know,my early childhood experiences.
More specifically, like I wasbullied as a child.
I moved more than 18 timesbefore I was 20.
I was the new kid.
So I was a really easy target.
Pushed down, called names,laughed at, mocked.
(18:51):
And so like I said earlier,right, the brain's predictive.
And so when I'm showing up inpublic, even though I'm like, I am
on this fierce mission to makea global impact, my brain is like
1992 slammed into the locker.
We can't do this.
We must stop at all costs, right?
I don't know that it's pullingthat rank subconsciously, but I can
(19:11):
now, I can feel it in my body.
And I'm like, okay, I gotta,I've got to create the safety, right?
And so I'm even before I comeon the podcast, you know, I'm working
with my cranial nerves, I'mworking with my visual system, I'm
working with my respiratory system.
I can sense it in my tone of voice.
You know, if we start talkingabout something that like really
(19:33):
gets me in the feels, I can, Ican do a tool while we're here in
that heat of the moment sothat I'm able to stay present.
My cognitive, logical thinkingbrain is turned online and I'm not
reverting back into mysurvival brain.
Now you're tapped in so yourecognize when the science physical
(19:54):
is happening.
Is there a way for anyonewho's not tapped in to get any of
those signs?
Yes, it's practice, truly.
And it's.
In neurosomatics, we work at aminimum effective dose.
And this is really whatchanged the game for me, right?
Because especially as a highachieving, over achiever, perfectionist,
right?
Because I was like, I'm gonnasit and meditate for 20 minutes.
(20:15):
Well, a minute in I was like,and then I gotta do this and then
I gotta go over here.
And I totally wasn't in themeditation, right?
I was like flighting out of mybody, right?
So what I was able to do wasstart small.
Small enough.
It's just like titration, right?
So 15 seconds, tap in.
As soon as I felt myself startto like go into the to do list of
(20:37):
the flight.
I'm like, ah, got it.
I'm done.
Shake it off.
Away we go.
Now, like yesterday, Imeditated for 20 minutes, and then
I had this moment of like, oh,my gosh, I can't believe I did that.
I couldn't sit in silence fortwo minutes.
Right.
So it really is themeasurement and the titrating to
your own specific nervoussystem, because every single nervous
(20:58):
system is unique as itself.
It's like a fingerprint.
And so we can actually testthis through vocal tone.
So if your pitch goes higher,it's typically more of a threat response
because constriction happens.
Or you can use your neck, likelooking right and left because again,
that constriction, if you.
(21:19):
If you have more range ofmotion, that's like, okay, the.
The body feels safe, you know,it's more safe than before.
So this is your minimumeffective dose to make sustainable
change.
Got it, Got it.
So good.
Yeah.
For you guys who don't know,titration is something we use a lot
in science.
When we have to titrate inthrough, like a pipet or something
is small amounts to make sureyou can catch the chemical reaction
(21:41):
when it happens, which I lovetaking it in small amounts.
And I feel like meditation was that.
It's so funny because you saidwhen you started and your brain would
just like, run, it's like, Igot to do this, I got to do that.
So many people experience that.
And there are moments when Istarted, I experienced that.
But here's the best part about it.
I kept going.
I didn't make that mean Ican't meditate.
(22:02):
I didn't make that mean I.
This is not going to work for me.
I made it mean it's okay if Igo up or I fall asleep.
That's the other good one.
Yes, exactly right.
But then I caught it, andthere were moments I can go into
my mind and I can just be inmy alpha and just be at rest, you
know?
So I thank you for sharingthat with our community.
(22:23):
So let's talk about another.
But what if you need to pivotis in a lack of clarity?
It's a nervous system signal.
So many creative entrepreneurslive in a cycle of reinvention.
New offers, new directions,new seasons.
And what roles does this disdysregulation play in that constant
(22:44):
pivoting?
And how can awareness help usas creative entrepreneurs build more
sustainable consistency?
This comes up a lot with thewomen that I work with.
And it's.
It's a flight pattern for sure.
Right.
So it is a flight that I haveexperienced as a well worn path in
(23:04):
past life, right.
Because we have one personsign up and then it's like, oh, you
know, that the flood comes inor it didn't work, or we have all
of these things that come upand they're so protective, you know,
it's like there is nothingwrong with you if you're experiencing
this.
Your nervous system truly isjust protecting you and it doesn't
(23:27):
have to be so hard.
So yes, it is flight.
It is really protective frombeing visible, vulnerable.
And if you're also constantlymoving and doing, you don't have
to be with the sensation to beable to move it through.
It's really avoidant, youknow, and like I said, I can totally
(23:47):
relate to this in the past.
And so many of my clients cometo me and they're really overwhelmed
with their offer suite becausethey're like, you know, I've got
these 15 things and this onedoesn't feel good and I want to try
this.
And I just had this really big download.
And the creation and ideationcan sometimes be the avoidance of
actually showing up and makingthe impact and reaching the goals.
(24:09):
Right.
And it's just such a delicatebalance to be able to tap in because
I am a very creative person.
Like, I love writing, I lovecreation and finding a way to do
it that's meaningful, thatdoesn't continue to perpetuate the
burnout cycle.
And the flight away from, youknow, the mission or, or purpose
that you have is really the key.
(24:30):
So good.
I love that you called it out.
It is a flight response.
It is, it really is.
I wish someone called me out sooner.
Oh my goodness.
So I'm here to just, to just.
Name it, you know, name it.
Because there's so many peoplewho do have like six, seven offers
and they think they're justgenerating ideas, but they actually
never really fulfill or buildbecause you're stuck in that offer
(24:53):
creation.
And I don't know, like, itdoesn't feel good.
I want to, I want to do this,I want to do that.
And I'm just like, how aboutyou just choose one and let's see
what happens, right?
And energy flows where energy goes.
And so if you are splicingyourself into all of these different
offers, you know, it's, it's alittle bit of a percent everywhere
and it's, it's reallyuncomfortable to stay with one thing
(25:17):
and stay with yourself.
And it's the most rewardingwhen you can, you can honor yourself
and trust right it is a reallybig experiment of self trust and
connection to self.
I am in my mastermind, andwe're doing a revenue challenge.
And in revenue challenge, youhave to set a financial goal.
And we can set any goal wewant, but we do it in 30 days.
(25:39):
And what our lovely coachalways tells us is that one of the
challenges is people try tostart creating podcasts and this
and that and this because theythink that's the thing that's going
to help them generate it.
And in my doing of thischallenge, the one thing I wanted
to stretch my muscle on isbeing more consistent with my email
marketing.
But I wanted to have fun with it.
(26:00):
I wanted to make a love letterfor her, my beautiful, iconic CEO
who's in her transition, and Iwanted to disrupt her old beliefs.
And the fun thing about it isthat I have different methods I can
use because I have my podcast,I have things.
But I was like, no, this isthe one muscle I want to do.
But I don't want to make it anemail marketing campaign like, oh,
my gosh, that kills my soulwhen I say that.
(26:23):
But it's so fun to be like,I'm telling you how amazing you are,
and this is a condition that'sholding you back.
But what if.
What if we can change thatwith one thought?
What if we can disrupt thatnervous system, that fear that.
That little thing inside ofyou that keeps you from doing what
you love?
And I have some people in myworld that are with me on this journey,
(26:44):
and sometimes they're alwaysgoing, well, shouldn't you create
a goal for how many come toyour workshops?
Because I'm doing that.
I'm like, no, because that'swhere that splicing of adding so
many things in the pot, andI'm just like, this is a hot mess.
And I'm like, no, I'm justgoing to start with the pop.
The fire and water.
Exactly.
And as soon as you canactually show up in full integrity,
(27:07):
in full energy, all of thosethings happen automatically.
Which, you know, Catherine,eight years ago would have been like,
no, we need roi, we need KPI.
We need all the strategy.
Only the strategy.
Numbers.
Only numbers.
And it really held me back.
And now I'm, like, surrenderedto, like, my energy and my authenticity
(27:30):
will call in the alignedhumans in a meaningful way.
And it does.
And I'm kind of like,sometimes I'm like, is this.
Yep.
Yes.
And as soon as thetransactional rigid ego comes into
play, it is the block, youknow, like, of calling them in.
And it's it really is fascinating.
(27:51):
Really.
So good.
Thanks for sharing that, Catherine.
I love that.
Yeah.
All right, let me ask you this one.
But what if expansion couldfeel safe, right, for the woman or
the creative entrepreneurwho's ready to grow their business
but keeps hitting an invisible ceiling?
What are a few somatic ornervous system problems, practices
(28:13):
she can start or he can startusing today to expand safety into
visibility, into leadership,and into success.
You share with us your take on that.
Yeah.
The first thing I would do islook from like an energy perspective,
because truly we need energyto keep that brain switched on and
open to change.
(28:33):
And because we breathe 25,000breaths a day, if there is a deficit
in our respiration system,which is very common with chronic
stress because of the bracing,it limits our breathing.
The very first place that Iwork with most humans is in the respiration
system because we want tomobilize the CO2 to the prefrontal
(28:57):
cortex and get that energyturned up and turned on.
And so I would do this withmouth tape at night.
Mouth taping at night has.
It's such a passive way, and.
And most people are like,well, I'm not a mouth breather.
I was also one of thosepeople, but I was like, I'm going
to try it anyway.
And then I realized the firstnight how many times I tried to open
(29:20):
my mouth as I disrupted my sleep.
And then by night three, I wastotally used to it.
So mouth taping is a huge one.
Bag breathing, like, if youthink about, like, when someone's
hyperventilating and you givethem a bag, that actually mobilizes
the CO2 into the prefrontalcortex and gives a massive surge
of energy.
And for all of these, my onlycaveat is really measuring.
(29:43):
Right.
So when someone starts to bagbreathe, they may only be able to
do two to three breaths andthen eventually get up to eight and
10.
It's really just knowing whenyou feel that, like, need to breathe
outside of the bag, listen,you know, don't push through.
But that would be where Iwould start first, is really focusing
on the respiration.
Because if with every breathour nervous system is saying, threat,
(30:06):
threat, threat.
If we can reduce that load byre patterning our breathing responses
and mobilizing the CO2, wehave a pretty quick impact that makes
a significant change from aresource and capacity level to create
safety.
The tape for the mouth, do youuse a specific one that you enjoy?
(30:26):
Personally, I love the tape.
Her brand, it's Canadian andI'm Canadian, so.
But it's very lightweight.
It's in an X shape.
There are some other ones thatkind of like go around the mouth
with a hole in the middle.
And that's more like aninterceptive sensation.
So like you feel when yourmouth opens.
Personally, my preference isany that have like that X across
(30:49):
the middle of my mouth.
So what I'm gonna do is I'mgonna ask you to send that via email
and I'll share it in the shownotes because Absolutely.
I would use regular tape.
You know where I saw it fromLove is Blind.
Yes.
Did it.
And he used regular tape.
But what I also notice is if Ido it too tight, I could rub my teeth
against each other and it chips.
So I was like, that was.
Have you tell me more if youknow anything about that or how to
(31:11):
avoid that.
The grind, like the teethmoving or shake, like rubbing against
each other.
And it's in my front, it's notin my back.
Oh, yeah.
It's probably just feeling tootight and constricted.
So I would definitely suggestgetting like a more like they're
more pliable.
Even in some of their ads thatyou'll see on Instagram, probably
now that we're talking aboutit, they'll show like water actually
(31:33):
like coming out of the mouth tape.
So it's kind of pliable andbreathable and doesn't feel like
you're trapped and your mouthis shut, like with a thicker tape.
Okay, good.
Because I did start that and Istopped because of that.
And I want to go back to it.
I don't know if it helps me,and I believe it does help me get
into deeper sleep and thingsof that nature.
(31:53):
Absolutely.
The other time you can use itis introduction when you're doing
workouts, like if you're walking.
Because when we start tobreathe through our mouth, we're
activating the fight or flight.
And so it just helps with ourVO2 max, which is a great indicator
for like longevity of health.
It has so many, so many benefits.
I never knew that if I'mwalking and I'm breathe throughout
(32:14):
my mouth, I'm putting on myflight or a fight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which we need.
Like, we need that for exercise.
You know, we need that stress response.
But it be.
It can become overactive.
Overactive.
And then like I said, we.
We get really good at what we practice.
So if we're moving into mouthbreathing, it becomes our default
mode.
And a lot of people mouthbreathe and have no idea.
(32:36):
And it has a massive inimplication to health, cardiovascular,
you name it, high stress, allthe Things.
Oh, good.
Okay.
Joy to be with today.
I loved how you helped a lotof our listeners and myself discover
what is that hitting that ceiling?
That moment when we're like.
And I know a good amount aboutmy frontal cortex, and I love it.
(32:58):
I'm in love with it nowbecause I get to choose.
But in the past, I never did that.
I let my subconscious lead,and I felt like I lost a lot during
those moments because I wasn't present.
I wasn't able to do the thingsthat I love and wanted to do.
I kept overdoing.
And that.
That's.
That whole flight didn't knowI was doing that because I'm a fighter.
(33:20):
But at the same time, I wasrunning away by creating all these
different opportunities thatpeople can work with me.
But in today, there's a bookalso about called Essentialism, where
I like to just focus on one thing.
And I don't know how toexplain this, but when I focus on
one thing for the whole week,it is the best feeling in the world.
Like, I feel like I startedand I can get it done.
And at the end I'm like, thiswas all good, you know?
(33:42):
But there are people who aremissing that feeling of this is so
good.
Because they feel like theyhave to do like five things on their
to do list.
That's a running to do listthat never closes and they never
get something completed.
Yes, I can hard relate to that.
That was like my go to.
And I wore it as a badge ofhonor as like a master multitasker.
But that sense of urgency is atotal flight, you know, and we know,
(34:03):
right?
So it's just.
It's like you said, it'sgetting the agency back to be able
to choose and then modulatethrough the stress response.
And that's what buildsresilience and creates performance.
Because we can't perform whenwe are in our survival.
Sure.
Right.
We are not able to do that.
So the three takeaways that Igot from you is one, when we do meditation,
(34:23):
do it in small bites oranything we do, titrate it, make
it smaller for you.
Because every nervous systemis different.
Right.
To definitely add mouth tapeto our life.
Because where we do somaticand nervous work, it starts from
our respiratory area, and thatwould help us.
And then I think your thirdone was breathing in a bag, seeing
(34:45):
how many you do.
Was it like you said, we couldmaybe start off with two or three
or wherever.
To the point you need to feellike you need to stop breathing in
the bag.
You need the actual air?
Absolutely.
I would do two to three.
And earlier on I was talkingabout just turning your head right
and left.
And if you can do that andthen back breathe two to three times,
if you have more range ofmotion, it means it's a positive
(35:08):
response.
And stay with that.
And then it'll createneuroplastic change and you can increase.
If it's negative, it's too much.
You're not going to createstate change.
And if it's neutral, you needto do a little bit more.
So go back and do four or fivebig breaths.
All right, so one, what you'resharing with us, do you have anything
I can add in the show notesthat people can get and learn a little
(35:29):
bit more about your tactics or.
Okay, two, we're going to putthat in a show note.
And two, how can anyonelistening to this who's very like,
oh, my God, I need to be inyour world find you?
Yeah, you can find me atbeyond your mindset dot com.
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Katherine.
I appreciate you tremendously.
Thank you, Nikisha.
It was an honor to chat withyou today.
(35:50):
Thank you for joining us today.
We loved having you with us.
Remember, each action youtake, no matter how small, adds up
to big results.
If today's episode fired youup, hit subscribe for more insights
and visit our resource hub,which is linked in the show notes.
There you'll find tools tostreamline, organize and grow your
(36:12):
business.
Keep moving forward and we'llbe right here to cheer you on next
week.
Welcome with your host andbusiness guru, Nakisha King.
This podcast is the ultimatedestination for women creative entrepreneurs
who want to break free from burnout.
If you are overwhelmed byclient demands and feel like you're
doing this all alone, you, myfriend, are in the right place.
(00:23):
Now let's dive in for steps totake back your time and self, simplify
your workflow.
All right, Nikisha, take it away.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to Iconic CEO Podcast,where free spirits go to learn systems.
(00:45):
My name is Nikisha.
I'm your host today and I havea special guest for you guys.
Her name is Katherine Spears.
Now I'm going to introduceKatherine Spears because she's very
dynamic and I want you to getto know who she is, her power, and
we're going to have a reallygood conversation about becoming
an iconic CEO and how to allowyour nervous system to work with
you rather than against you.
(01:05):
So first and foremost,Katherine Spears is a neurosomatic
intelligence practitioner.
She's also a director ofmarketing and communications as at
Neurosematic Intelligence, theglobal leader in neurosomatics with
a background in psychology anda passion for making brain science
practical thinking.
Thank you very much.
(01:26):
Katherine helps high achievingfemale founders like you, disruptors
and trailblazers who've donethe inner work but still feel stuck,
break free from repeatingpatterns and expand their capacity
at a nervous system level.
After walking away from athriving corporate marketing career
in the startup world,Katherine discovered that true lasting
(01:48):
transformation doesn't comefrom mindset alone.
It starts in the body.
Known for her direct, yetrelatable approach, she bridges neuroscience
and somatics into actionabletools that create sustainable change.
Whether she's coaching one onone, leading workshops, or speaking
on stage, her mission is tohelp women feel safe being seen and
(02:11):
heard, sparking a rippleeffect that reshapes not just their
lives, but the culture around them.
And based on the east coast ofCanada, Katherine is a late diagnosed
adher, mom of two, wife anddog lover, often found sipping kumbacha.
Katherine, welcome to theIconic CEO podcast.
(02:33):
It's a pleasure to have you.
Thank you so much for havingme, Nikisha.
Yes.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your somatic work.
Not your somatic butneurosomatic work.
How did you start or like,what came about for you to put you
on this journey?
Yeah, I mean, my entire life,I can remember since I was 12, you
know, being diagnosed with aflurry of random symptoms, gut issues,
(02:57):
anxiety, depression, later inlife, late diagnosed adhd.
But I always was really likehigh functioning and Go, go, go.
Do, do, do.
And one of the most pivotalmoments was when I was on the C suite
team at a fast paced agencyand they brought in a mental health
fitness group and we had tosit in silence for two minutes.
(03:19):
And that silence for twominutes, I thought I was actually
going to combust.
And so in that moment I waslike, oh, this is not how it's meant
to be.
But when I was doing what youknow, most people, quote unquote
say is healing, you know, likebreath work, meditation things, therapy
sessions, sitting in silence,like feeling my feelings, that wasn't
(03:41):
actually safe for me.
And I was moving into what Iknow now is another stress response.
So now I'm on this fiercemission to educate and support women
on how to capitalize withtheir brain and apply neurology to
go back further into the cycleand create safety at a physiological
(04:01):
state level so that they cancreate sustainable change.
So in that moment I knewsomething is not okay.
And then the shame reallyspiraled me into like finding something
that would support me inmaking change.
You say this shame, what areyou referring to?
For me it's like there's somuch that was being thrown out at
me, you know, like, do this,do that, like get your steps in,
(04:23):
drink this much water, wake upat 5am like, you know, the list goes
on.
There's so many differentthings that are kind of thrown at
us as ways or means to help usto feel better.
And I couldn't stick withthose things because they weren't
in alignment for me or I wasmoving into another stress response.
And so what that made me feelwas something was wrong with me,
(04:43):
right?
Because all of these otherwomen were having success in meditating
or doing breath work or goingto a yoga class or sitting in a therapy
session.
And for me it was like I feltlike I was just spinning my tires
on this never ending cyclerepeating over and over again.
And so I really internalizedthat and, and felt like something
(05:03):
was wrong with me, which camewith a major shame response.
Let me ask you, what made youfeel like you had to do all these
things?
Like, what was the drivingfactor behind that made it feel like,
like that's the part I want to know.
Because when we think aboutall those things, for me I'm like,
yeah, I don't want to do all that.
Like, I'll just, I'll just dothe one I want.
I don't got time for all that.
(05:24):
I'm really adamant about that.
But for you, there's somethingthat I want.
My audience to hear becausesome women do feel like they need
to do all the things and theyhave the same response you do.
So for you, what was that?
I think my, I mean, I thoughtI needed to be fixed.
I thought there was somethingwrong with me and it was just really
my high achievingperfectionist patterns being projected
(05:49):
onto my healing journey.
Right.
So instead of living those inmy everyday life, which I still was,
but it was like a deep rootedsurvival response that then was being
cast over top of my healingjourney, which I see with so many
women that I work with,especially like high achieving type
A perfectionists.
You know, they're like, okay,well I need the plan.
(06:10):
I need to do exactly what.
And it's a lot of outsourcing.
Our own inner wisdom andexternal validation, which are really
nervous system protective responses.
Okay, so you're part of aseries that I call but what if where
I get to disrupt the thinkingthat we have in building our business,
being very high achieving,iconic CEOs.
(06:34):
And I want to ask you aquestion, I want to ask you, but
what if you're not stuck,you're just deregulated based on
what you teaching.
So many high achieving womensay, I've done the mindset work,
I've invested in coaching, butI still feel like I'm looping back
into the same pattern.
Can you help us understandwhat's actually happening in the
(06:56):
nervous system when we feelstuck or resistance to change even
when we know better?
You know, there's so manypeople go, I know, but I'm not doing
it.
And I'm like, well, what'shappening in the brain that's causing
that?
Yes.
So there is a massive, for the brain.
Okay.
Number one, it's predictive.
(07:17):
And so it's really constantlylooping on, taking in information,
vetting if it's safe or, orunsafe at a subconscious level, and
then deciding before consciousawareness if it is safe or unsafe
based on like a number ofdifferent inputs and can be our respiration,
our heart rate, past livedexperiences, implicit bias.
(07:40):
Like there's so many, I callthem like the rose colored glasses
of the filtration system.
So we actually aren't evencognitively deciding safe or unsafe.
Our subconscious is.
And then we're either up tothe prefrontal cortex, which is where
we can make logical cognitivedecisions, or we're in our like survival
brain, where, you know, that'sthe part of the brain that's activated
(08:03):
when we meet a bear in thewoods, but it's often being activated
when we're getting an email orwe're seeing like a glance between
two people and we sense thatthreat at a subconscious level.
And so the other piece.
So number one, it's theinterpretation system based on predictions
of our brain and pastexperiences, even if we don't cognitively
remember.
(08:23):
And then the second piece tothat is the resistance to change.
And for the brain, any changeis very energetically taxing.
And so the brain will alwayschoose the familiar, even the familiar,
hell, right.
Over an unknown.
Even if cognitively we wantthis more than anything.
(08:45):
You know, we're on this fiercemission and then we see it come up
in different copingmechanisms, different behavioral
outputs.
Avoidance, procrastination,imposter syndrome, inner critic.
All of those things are reallymeant, meant to be protective patterns
that hold you back from doingthe thing or keeping you safe and
(09:07):
connected to the herd.
Yeah, that's such a good.
I love the point that youbring up the brain through loving
the safeness of it.
Right.
So even when you want tochange, it is like, no, no, keep
even in the hell, let's keepdoing this.
I know this, I don't know that.
Right, exactly.
It's such a huge energetic cost.
And when we're low energy anda lot of high achieving women are
(09:30):
at a physiological level, whatends up happening is the brain's
like, no, no, we don't haveenergy for this.
We need to store our energyand keep doing the same thing.
Exactly.
So here's the thing also, I'min a beautiful container where I'm
in a mastermind, which I lovecreating for my community.
And capacity is what we talk about.
Because in what you've justdescribed with the brain, it's really
(09:53):
not about I can do hardthings, it's about can I increase
my capacity to shift theenergy into the thing that I know
will be better for me.
And what does that look like?
And it is an option, it is a choice.
And it's a choice you have tomake consciously.
But you have to also fight foryour choice.
It's like you are fightingyour brain just to be able to live
(10:15):
the life you want to.
Because if you don't, it willgive you the status quo of what you've
been conditioned to believe.
Right.
And it's so good when you areaware of this.
And I think we're bringingthis to the awareness because some
people don't realize that'sthe case.
So I want you to tell us whatis some of the actions we can't take
(10:36):
to push forward, to push outof the low energy Stay here where
it's safe.
Because the reason I know it'spossible is because I did it.
I remember sitting here andhaving that moment where I'm like,
I'm playing it too small andthis sucks and I had to go.
And I did have coaching communities.
I was in online, a sales group.
I was in one to one for my systems.
(10:58):
And even though I bought itfor systems, that woman was doing
some work on me that I didn'tknow, which I loved.
When I was in it, I didn'tlove it.
I was just like, no, that isnot the case.
Right.
Like, but she was so patientwith me and it changed my life.
But there was somethinghappening that I don't know if I
was ever aware of, that Iliterally pushed forward even.
(11:19):
And I don't feel like I, whenI was in that moment with her, I'm
going to be honest, theinvestments I had to make felt like
they pulled me out of low energy.
When I invested in myselfsomething bigger than I've done before.
And it felt uncomfortable.
The stretch made me feel like,you, you got to do it, you got to
show up, you got to keep moving.
Like, I didn't haveopportunity to be like, I'm just
(11:41):
not going to do that becauseit doesn't feel comfortable for me.
You know what I mean?
So I want you to tell me alittle bit more.
I'm so inquisitive about thiswhole part about that.
Yeah.
And so a lot of women have theexperience of really leveraging the
mindset and like pushingagainst their upper limits, their
edges, while other people, Iwould consider myself this other
(12:02):
kind of camp of people,despite trying everything and like
being all in that subconsciouswas really just winning every time.
Every single time.
And so what I did was startedwhen I learned about neurosmatics,
it really changed everythingbecause what I started to do is instead
of working in my mindset,which was locked in, you know, like
(12:24):
I knew what I wanted, I wasready to get after it, I went back
into the inputs.
So from a neurologicalperspective, when I said earlier,
like, we're taking ininformation, we're taking it in through
a ton of different systems andthere can be threat within any of
those systems from any otherpast lived experience, any physical,
(12:46):
emotional traumas that you'reaware of or unaware of that create
that threat.
So by working with appliedneurology and working in those systems,
we clear up the, thegatekeeper, we clear up the filtration
system, and when we clear upthe filtration system that your information
is Being vetted by your brain,what ends up happening is it starts
(13:09):
to default, then more intosafe, instead of constantly into
threat.
So when we're in survival modefor so long, you know, they say neurons
that fire together, wiretogether, it becomes the default
pattern to move into thesurvival brain where we can't actually
tap into the mindset despiteknowing it.
So when we start to clear upthose inputs in our visual system,
(13:31):
in our respiration system, inour body map, what ends up happening
is we start to stop pullingrank and moving directly into the
survival response and startactually moving into we are safe
so that we can access thatinformation and make change.
So that's where it really allstarted to shift for me.
(13:51):
Because after chronic stressfor so long, my bracing patterns
and my breathing and chronicpain were really working against
me.
And so I was able to untangleit at the root so that that safety
was created, that capacity wascreated and I was resourced to be
able to tap into the mindsetand make those changes and work against
(14:12):
my brain, you know, in a, in away that wasn't burning me out.
Do me a favor, I want you tobe able to translate that into what
we experiences as womenentrepreneurs or creative entrepreneurs.
How does that look in our business?
Give us examples of what's happening.
How can we be mindful that weknow there's a tanglement in the
base and how would we untangle that?
(14:33):
Like what is that in that term?
So they can relate to it.
Yeah, it can show up in somany ways.
I mean, anytime.
Perfectionism, impostersyndrome, like any of the major things
that come up, fear in business.
Right.
Meeting a new goal or wantingto hit your next big, you know, seven
figure launch or what have you.
(14:53):
And all of the things thatcome up with that.
It's such a heavy stress load.
And so we need to actually beable to signal to the brain.
Yeah, the heavy stress load.
Because something's happening.
Because people define heavy.
Yes, they do.
So, and I will tell you, Iwould have told you a million times,
like I'm not stressed.
And here's the piece that'sthe big difference maker is that
(15:15):
it's a state shift that'shappening at a physiological level
that we don't actually evenhave conscious awareness that it's
happening.
And the tax to the body isjust so massive because we're abandoning
self and then what ends uphappening is the sensations that
we feel aren't safe, so thenwe actually disconnect from the body
(15:37):
even more.
So we can't feel when ourheartbeats racing, we can't feel,
when our palms are sweaty, andwe just keep pushing and showing
up.
And then what ends uphappening is the nervous system just
gets louder.
We have a louder inner critic,a louder perfectionist, a louder
judgment.
We may have migraines,headaches, burnout cycles, all of
(15:58):
the things.
I also see this a lot withwomen that really want to, like,
hit that, like, seven figures.
And then when they do, it'snot enough.
Right?
Like, it's also they can'tfeel the joy.
So if you can't feel thestress or for the fear that comes
up, they're also not actuallyliving in the present moment of feeling
the joy and letting the winland too.
(16:19):
Right?
That is the norm.
And I think that's the normfor a lot of entrepreneurs.
No matter the agenda.
Right.
Because I'm not going toignore the male CEO or entrepreneur
because we all experience thesame physiological and mental changes
and burnout.
And it's about identifying it.
How do you know?
(16:39):
Because I'm going to behonest, I love what I do, but there
are moments I sacrifice megetting out and doing my daily walks
for sitting at my desk 12hours a day.
Right.
And as much as I love what Ido, my body is saying, nikisha, we
don't love what you're doingbecause we're hurting when you sleep
and you have that ache andyou're like, what is this?
(16:59):
Right?
And I love what you said aboutyour body starts to yell at you,
and I'm just like, okay.
And I had to put things in play.
Like, my ballroom dancing iswhat I use to help me get out of
my head into my heart, butalso move my body, you know?
And there's more things Iwould like to add because that's
not just enough, there's moreof it.
So I love that you clearlyallowed us to see what that looks
(17:21):
like.
Now, one of the things youtalk about is helping women feel
safe being seen and heard.
And I want to know, how do I.
Our past experience,especially moments where we feel
misunderstood or invisible,shape our nervous system's ability
to take up space in today's world.
Absolutely.
I mean, from a social andrelational perspective, you know,
(17:45):
human connection is a core,basic need that.
That we need to thrive and bealive as humans.
And so when we are showing upand invisibility, it is a massive
stress load, right?
We are showing up.
We are being our authentic selves.
We are opening the door tojudgment, troll hatred, especially
(18:07):
when we are making impactsthat are huge or polarizing Statements
or, you know, hoping to makean impact of change.
It comes with a massive stress load.
And I always talk about when Iwas in corporate, I loved, I loved
to present.
And afterwards I would beexhausted or like peopled out.
(18:28):
And, and that was reallybecause I wasn't present in the moment
or embodied because it wasn'tsafe to be.
And that comes from, you know,my early childhood experiences.
More specifically, like I wasbullied as a child.
I moved more than 18 timesbefore I was 20.
I was the new kid.
So I was a really easy target.
Pushed down, called names,laughed at, mocked.
(18:51):
And so like I said earlier,right, the brain's predictive.
And so when I'm showing up inpublic, even though I'm like, I am
on this fierce mission to makea global impact, my brain is like
1992 slammed into the locker.
We can't do this.
We must stop at all costs, right?
I don't know that it's pullingthat rank subconsciously, but I can
(19:11):
now, I can feel it in my body.
And I'm like, okay, I gotta,I've got to create the safety, right?
And so I'm even before I comeon the podcast, you know, I'm working
with my cranial nerves, I'mworking with my visual system, I'm
working with my respiratory system.
I can sense it in my tone of voice.
You know, if we start talkingabout something that like really
(19:33):
gets me in the feels, I can, Ican do a tool while we're here in
that heat of the moment sothat I'm able to stay present.
My cognitive, logical thinkingbrain is turned online and I'm not
reverting back into mysurvival brain.
Now you're tapped in so yourecognize when the science physical
(19:54):
is happening.
Is there a way for anyonewho's not tapped in to get any of
those signs?
Yes, it's practice, truly.
And it's.
In neurosomatics, we work at aminimum effective dose.
And this is really whatchanged the game for me, right?
Because especially as a highachieving, over achiever, perfectionist,
right?
Because I was like, I'm gonnasit and meditate for 20 minutes.
(20:15):
Well, a minute in I was like,and then I gotta do this and then
I gotta go over here.
And I totally wasn't in themeditation, right?
I was like flighting out of mybody, right?
So what I was able to do wasstart small.
Small enough.
It's just like titration, right?
So 15 seconds, tap in.
As soon as I felt myself startto like go into the to do list of
(20:37):
the flight.
I'm like, ah, got it.
I'm done.
Shake it off.
Away we go.
Now, like yesterday, Imeditated for 20 minutes, and then
I had this moment of like, oh,my gosh, I can't believe I did that.
I couldn't sit in silence fortwo minutes.
Right.
So it really is themeasurement and the titrating to
your own specific nervoussystem, because every single nervous
(20:58):
system is unique as itself.
It's like a fingerprint.
And so we can actually testthis through vocal tone.
So if your pitch goes higher,it's typically more of a threat response
because constriction happens.
Or you can use your neck, likelooking right and left because again,
that constriction, if you.
(21:19):
If you have more range ofmotion, that's like, okay, the.
The body feels safe, you know,it's more safe than before.
So this is your minimumeffective dose to make sustainable
change.
Got it, Got it.
So good.
Yeah.
For you guys who don't know,titration is something we use a lot
in science.
When we have to titrate inthrough, like a pipet or something
is small amounts to make sureyou can catch the chemical reaction
(21:41):
when it happens, which I lovetaking it in small amounts.
And I feel like meditation was that.
It's so funny because you saidwhen you started and your brain would
just like, run, it's like, Igot to do this, I got to do that.
So many people experience that.
And there are moments when Istarted, I experienced that.
But here's the best part about it.
I kept going.
I didn't make that mean Ican't meditate.
(22:02):
I didn't make that mean I.
This is not going to work for me.
I made it mean it's okay if Igo up or I fall asleep.
That's the other good one.
Yes, exactly right.
But then I caught it, andthere were moments I can go into
my mind and I can just be inmy alpha and just be at rest, you
know?
So I thank you for sharingthat with our community.
(22:23):
So let's talk about another.
But what if you need to pivotis in a lack of clarity?
It's a nervous system signal.
So many creative entrepreneurslive in a cycle of reinvention.
New offers, new directions,new seasons.
And what roles does this disdysregulation play in that constant
(22:44):
pivoting?
And how can awareness help usas creative entrepreneurs build more
sustainable consistency?
This comes up a lot with thewomen that I work with.
And it's.
It's a flight pattern for sure.
Right.
So it is a flight that I haveexperienced as a well worn path in
(23:04):
past life, right.
Because we have one personsign up and then it's like, oh, you
know, that the flood comes inor it didn't work, or we have all
of these things that come upand they're so protective, you know,
it's like there is nothingwrong with you if you're experiencing
this.
Your nervous system truly isjust protecting you and it doesn't
(23:27):
have to be so hard.
So yes, it is flight.
It is really protective frombeing visible, vulnerable.
And if you're also constantlymoving and doing, you don't have
to be with the sensation to beable to move it through.
It's really avoidant, youknow, and like I said, I can totally
(23:47):
relate to this in the past.
And so many of my clients cometo me and they're really overwhelmed
with their offer suite becausethey're like, you know, I've got
these 15 things and this onedoesn't feel good and I want to try
this.
And I just had this really big download.
And the creation and ideationcan sometimes be the avoidance of
actually showing up and makingthe impact and reaching the goals.
(24:09):
Right.
And it's just such a delicatebalance to be able to tap in because
I am a very creative person.
Like, I love writing, I lovecreation and finding a way to do
it that's meaningful, thatdoesn't continue to perpetuate the
burnout cycle.
And the flight away from, youknow, the mission or, or purpose
that you have is really the key.
(24:30):
So good.
I love that you called it out.
It is a flight response.
It is, it really is.
I wish someone called me out sooner.
Oh my goodness.
So I'm here to just, to just.
Name it, you know, name it.
Because there's so many peoplewho do have like six, seven offers
and they think they're justgenerating ideas, but they actually
never really fulfill or buildbecause you're stuck in that offer
(24:53):
creation.
And I don't know, like, itdoesn't feel good.
I want to, I want to do this,I want to do that.
And I'm just like, how aboutyou just choose one and let's see
what happens, right?
And energy flows where energy goes.
And so if you are splicingyourself into all of these different
offers, you know, it's, it's alittle bit of a percent everywhere
and it's, it's reallyuncomfortable to stay with one thing
(25:17):
and stay with yourself.
And it's the most rewardingwhen you can, you can honor yourself
and trust right it is a reallybig experiment of self trust and
connection to self.
I am in my mastermind, andwe're doing a revenue challenge.
And in revenue challenge, youhave to set a financial goal.
And we can set any goal wewant, but we do it in 30 days.
(25:39):
And what our lovely coachalways tells us is that one of the
challenges is people try tostart creating podcasts and this
and that and this because theythink that's the thing that's going
to help them generate it.
And in my doing of thischallenge, the one thing I wanted
to stretch my muscle on isbeing more consistent with my email
marketing.
But I wanted to have fun with it.
(26:00):
I wanted to make a love letterfor her, my beautiful, iconic CEO
who's in her transition, and Iwanted to disrupt her old beliefs.
And the fun thing about it isthat I have different methods I can
use because I have my podcast,I have things.
But I was like, no, this isthe one muscle I want to do.
But I don't want to make it anemail marketing campaign like, oh,
my gosh, that kills my soulwhen I say that.
(26:23):
But it's so fun to be like,I'm telling you how amazing you are,
and this is a condition that'sholding you back.
But what if.
What if we can change thatwith one thought?
What if we can disrupt thatnervous system, that fear that.
That little thing inside ofyou that keeps you from doing what
you love?
And I have some people in myworld that are with me on this journey,
(26:44):
and sometimes they're alwaysgoing, well, shouldn't you create
a goal for how many come toyour workshops?
Because I'm doing that.
I'm like, no, because that'swhere that splicing of adding so
many things in the pot, andI'm just like, this is a hot mess.
And I'm like, no, I'm justgoing to start with the pop.
The fire and water.
Exactly.
And as soon as you canactually show up in full integrity,
(27:07):
in full energy, all of thosethings happen automatically.
Which, you know, Catherine,eight years ago would have been like,
no, we need roi, we need KPI.
We need all the strategy.
Only the strategy.
Numbers.
Only numbers.
And it really held me back.
And now I'm, like, surrenderedto, like, my energy and my authenticity
(27:30):
will call in the alignedhumans in a meaningful way.
And it does.
And I'm kind of like,sometimes I'm like, is this.
Yep.
Yes.
And as soon as thetransactional rigid ego comes into
play, it is the block, youknow, like, of calling them in.
And it's it really is fascinating.
(27:51):
Really.
So good.
Thanks for sharing that, Catherine.
I love that.
Yeah.
All right, let me ask you this one.
But what if expansion couldfeel safe, right, for the woman or
the creative entrepreneurwho's ready to grow their business
but keeps hitting an invisible ceiling?
What are a few somatic ornervous system problems, practices
(28:13):
she can start or he can startusing today to expand safety into
visibility, into leadership,and into success.
You share with us your take on that.
Yeah.
The first thing I would do islook from like an energy perspective,
because truly we need energyto keep that brain switched on and
open to change.
(28:33):
And because we breathe 25,000breaths a day, if there is a deficit
in our respiration system,which is very common with chronic
stress because of the bracing,it limits our breathing.
The very first place that Iwork with most humans is in the respiration
system because we want tomobilize the CO2 to the prefrontal
(28:57):
cortex and get that energyturned up and turned on.
And so I would do this withmouth tape at night.
Mouth taping at night has.
It's such a passive way, and.
And most people are like,well, I'm not a mouth breather.
I was also one of thosepeople, but I was like, I'm going
to try it anyway.
And then I realized the firstnight how many times I tried to open
(29:20):
my mouth as I disrupted my sleep.
And then by night three, I wastotally used to it.
So mouth taping is a huge one.
Bag breathing, like, if youthink about, like, when someone's
hyperventilating and you givethem a bag, that actually mobilizes
the CO2 into the prefrontalcortex and gives a massive surge
of energy.
And for all of these, my onlycaveat is really measuring.
(29:43):
Right.
So when someone starts to bagbreathe, they may only be able to
do two to three breaths andthen eventually get up to eight and
10.
It's really just knowing whenyou feel that, like, need to breathe
outside of the bag, listen,you know, don't push through.
But that would be where Iwould start first, is really focusing
on the respiration.
Because if with every breathour nervous system is saying, threat,
(30:06):
threat, threat.
If we can reduce that load byre patterning our breathing responses
and mobilizing the CO2, wehave a pretty quick impact that makes
a significant change from aresource and capacity level to create
safety.
The tape for the mouth, do youuse a specific one that you enjoy?
(30:26):
Personally, I love the tape.
Her brand, it's Canadian andI'm Canadian, so.
But it's very lightweight.
It's in an X shape.
There are some other ones thatkind of like go around the mouth
with a hole in the middle.
And that's more like aninterceptive sensation.
So like you feel when yourmouth opens.
Personally, my preference isany that have like that X across
(30:49):
the middle of my mouth.
So what I'm gonna do is I'mgonna ask you to send that via email
and I'll share it in the shownotes because Absolutely.
I would use regular tape.
You know where I saw it fromLove is Blind.
Yes.
Did it.
And he used regular tape.
But what I also notice is if Ido it too tight, I could rub my teeth
against each other and it chips.
So I was like, that was.
Have you tell me more if youknow anything about that or how to
(31:11):
avoid that.
The grind, like the teethmoving or shake, like rubbing against
each other.
And it's in my front, it's notin my back.
Oh, yeah.
It's probably just feeling tootight and constricted.
So I would definitely suggestgetting like a more like they're
more pliable.
Even in some of their ads thatyou'll see on Instagram, probably
now that we're talking aboutit, they'll show like water actually
(31:33):
like coming out of the mouth tape.
So it's kind of pliable andbreathable and doesn't feel like
you're trapped and your mouthis shut, like with a thicker tape.
Okay, good.
Because I did start that and Istopped because of that.
And I want to go back to it.
I don't know if it helps me,and I believe it does help me get
into deeper sleep and thingsof that nature.
(31:53):
Absolutely.
The other time you can use itis introduction when you're doing
workouts, like if you're walking.
Because when we start tobreathe through our mouth, we're
activating the fight or flight.
And so it just helps with ourVO2 max, which is a great indicator
for like longevity of health.
It has so many, so many benefits.
I never knew that if I'mwalking and I'm breathe throughout
(32:14):
my mouth, I'm putting on myflight or a fight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which we need.
Like, we need that for exercise.
You know, we need that stress response.
But it be.
It can become overactive.
Overactive.
And then like I said, we.
We get really good at what we practice.
So if we're moving into mouthbreathing, it becomes our default
mode.
And a lot of people mouthbreathe and have no idea.
(32:36):
And it has a massive inimplication to health, cardiovascular,
you name it, high stress, allthe Things.
Oh, good.
Okay.
Joy to be with today.
I loved how you helped a lotof our listeners and myself discover
what is that hitting that ceiling?
That moment when we're like.
And I know a good amount aboutmy frontal cortex, and I love it.
(32:58):
I'm in love with it nowbecause I get to choose.
But in the past, I never did that.
I let my subconscious lead,and I felt like I lost a lot during
those moments because I wasn't present.
I wasn't able to do the thingsthat I love and wanted to do.
I kept overdoing.
And that.
That's.
That whole flight didn't knowI was doing that because I'm a fighter.
(33:20):
But at the same time, I wasrunning away by creating all these
different opportunities thatpeople can work with me.
But in today, there's a bookalso about called Essentialism, where
I like to just focus on one thing.
And I don't know how toexplain this, but when I focus on
one thing for the whole week,it is the best feeling in the world.
Like, I feel like I startedand I can get it done.
And at the end I'm like, thiswas all good, you know?
(33:42):
But there are people who aremissing that feeling of this is so
good.
Because they feel like theyhave to do like five things on their
to do list.
That's a running to do listthat never closes and they never
get something completed.
Yes, I can hard relate to that.
That was like my go to.
And I wore it as a badge ofhonor as like a master multitasker.
But that sense of urgency is atotal flight, you know, and we know,
(34:03):
right?
So it's just.
It's like you said, it'sgetting the agency back to be able
to choose and then modulatethrough the stress response.
And that's what buildsresilience and creates performance.
Because we can't perform whenwe are in our survival.
Sure.
Right.
We are not able to do that.
So the three takeaways that Igot from you is one, when we do meditation,
(34:23):
do it in small bites oranything we do, titrate it, make
it smaller for you.
Because every nervous systemis different.
Right.
To definitely add mouth tapeto our life.
Because where we do somaticand nervous work, it starts from
our respiratory area, and thatwould help us.
And then I think your thirdone was breathing in a bag, seeing
(34:45):
how many you do.
Was it like you said, we couldmaybe start off with two or three
or wherever.
To the point you need to feellike you need to stop breathing in
the bag.
You need the actual air?
Absolutely.
I would do two to three.
And earlier on I was talkingabout just turning your head right
and left.
And if you can do that andthen back breathe two to three times,
if you have more range ofmotion, it means it's a positive
(35:08):
response.
And stay with that.
And then it'll createneuroplastic change and you can increase.
If it's negative, it's too much.
You're not going to createstate change.
And if it's neutral, you needto do a little bit more.
So go back and do four or fivebig breaths.
All right, so one, what you'resharing with us, do you have anything
I can add in the show notesthat people can get and learn a little
(35:29):
bit more about your tactics or.
Okay, two, we're going to putthat in a show note.
And two, how can anyonelistening to this who's very like,
oh, my God, I need to be inyour world find you?
Yeah, you can find me atbeyond your mindset dot com.
Perfect.
Thank you so much, Katherine.
I appreciate you tremendously.
Thank you, Nikisha.
It was an honor to chat withyou today.
(35:50):
Thank you for joining us today.
We loved having you with us.
Remember, each action youtake, no matter how small, adds up
to big results.
If today's episode fired youup, hit subscribe for more insights
and visit our resource hub,which is linked in the show notes.
There you'll find tools tostreamline, organize and grow your
(36:12):
business.
Keep moving forward and we'llbe right here to cheer you on next
week.
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