What if artificial intelligence could reshape the world of development finance in ways you've never imagined? Join us for an engaging conversation with Mark Fitzgerald from KPMG as he shares his journey through 25 years of international development finance. Mark's perspective on the transformative power of AI in the job market is both enlightening and challenging, with a statistic that suggests 70% of jobs could be affected by 2030. We explore the intricate blending of stakeholders from governments to NGOs and private enterprises; all united to achieve social impact. Mark's insights reveal how AI not only disrupts but also presents vast opportunities for workforce transformation and sustainable development.
The episode also uncovers the essential qualities that define global leadership today. We touch on how strategic patience and accountability can transform public sector operations, enhancing trust and efficiency. Mark emphasizes the significance of nurturing trust and compassion in leadership, drawing from his rich experience at KPMG. He invites us to consider the interconnectedness of our actions and their global outcomes, highlighting the importance of a global mindset. By embracing diverse focuses like climate resilience and market accessibility, we learn how these elements can shape our world. This episode offers a compelling look into the future, urging us to lead with purpose and empathy.
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Follow Mark's LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-fitzgerald-3aa30b8/
View more from KPMG International Development Assistance Services here: https://kpmg.com/xx/en/what-we-do/industries/government/international-development-assistance-services-idas.html
Watch the entire 2025 Global Leadership Summit here: https://www.ideagenglobal.com/2025globalleadershipsummit
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to IdeaGen TV , honored and thrilled to have
with me here today MarkFitzgerald from KPMG.
Mark, welcome.
Thank you, george.
Always a pleasure.
Great to have you here with ustoday.
Mark, live for IdeaGen TV andthe Catalyze podcast as well.
Mark, as we're looking at thisyear I mean my gosh, we're
(00:33):
already into February andstreaming into the rest of the
year.
What inspired you to pursue acareer in international
development finance and how didit end up with you leading
KPMG's practice in this area?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you.
So I'll try and fit that into afew seconds if I could, because
it's over three decades andit's kind of evolved over those
three decades.
I would say it boils down totwo particular things.
One is I fundamentally believethat development comes from
within.
Sustainable development comesfrom within and it has to be led
(01:11):
by locally led initiatives andlargely, I see the private
sector is hugely influential inproviding that sustainability.
So a lot of what I focused onpersonally and through KPMG is
how we can unlock thatengagement through the private
sector to achieve social impactand development over time.
(01:32):
And I think the other big themeis by doing that you build
trust.
So with trust it underpinseverything that we do.
So if you can marry those two,I think for me that's a pretty
good, effective focus for acareer.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
That's incredible, and we're talking 25 years over
25 years of experience.
Hard to believe.
That can't be possible.
I know what are some of themost significant shifts you've
seen in development finance overthose 25 plus years of your
career.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
A couple of things.
One, if I take the more recentkind of focus, it's about
blending different stakeholdersand their objectives and their
expectations around what arethey looking to achieve around
sustainable development.
And it means different thingsto different stakeholders.
So you've got governments,you've got private enterprise,
you've got small, medium sizedenterprise, you got NGOs and
(02:30):
civil society.
They all bring something.
So we use kind of finance in avery broad way.
Yes, it's money, but it's alsoskills and resources.
So when you look at thedifferent components and the
stakeholders, they're bringingdifferent elements of that kind
of broader ecosystem to developsomething that's sustainable.
(02:51):
But I think that's relativelynew, I would say in the last
five, 10 years.
Prior to that, I would say,there were two main buckets.
One was very transactional,very private sector driven in
terms of what you would expectto see, and then there was the
international developmentcommunity, kind of focused on
producing programs they feltwere appropriate to generate
social impact.
What we're seeing now is thosetwo worlds coming together,
(03:14):
which has to be a good thing.
It doesn't happen withoutfriction and challenges, but
that's a progression that we aretotally invested in.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I love it.
I love it and so challenges.
What are the biggest challengesfacing international
development funding at thisstage?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So I'm going to go off on a slight tangent, not so
much directly related to funding, but it is everywhere in a
discussion related to funding,and that's ai um.
So we had a major presence indavos in the world economic
forum, as we do every year, andthat was the major theme of the
week um, it was even in the uhkind of the address that
(03:56):
president trump had with uh,with the plenary session in
davos.
What that means, though, inpractice is two aspects One is
access to what AI could andshould be, and then the other
point to that is how you thenbenefit from AI.
There are two very differentthings, and I'll explain why.
(04:17):
We had the so-called digitaldivide, largely because people
who could access the internetversus those who could not.
One group was very muchadvancing because they had that
leg up in terms of that access,and then the others did not.
What we have right now is aslightly different situation,
(04:39):
where a lot of people do haveaccess to AI tools, largely
through their phones, and wehave both emerging markets and
developed markets, saturationaround access to smartphones,
etc.
So I think we're fixing access.
The issue is around benefit.
So how do you upskill aworkforce?
(05:00):
How do you provide theguardrails and the regulatory
framework in place for us tobenefit from AI?
So, round away to answer yourquestion, george, funding at the
moment is being developed tosupport the infrastructure of AI
and also how it's beingpositioned with governments,
with private sector and then,ultimately, with citizens.
(05:23):
So international community andinternational development
organizations are assessing howtheir funding models will adjust
accordingly, and that'sfascinating to see.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Even in the United States, it's Career and
Technical Education Month thismonth, and so, aligning the
careers of the future withindustry, you're at the nexus of
that, right.
I mean, this is what you'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Let me give you a quick anecdote.
I had an update this morningfrom one of our analysts so the
chief economist at LinkedIn.
She just talked aboutintelligence and the use of
artificial intelligence on theworkforce.
Writ large, so not specific toany particular country, but
their analysis have shown that70% of all jobs will be affected
(06:09):
by 2030 by AI.
Now, the amount of change andthe amount of impact obviously
that depends on the job, butthat's the degree that we're
talking about here.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
That's incredible and that may be even higher, who
knows?
Yeah, yeah, and so the role ofthe private sector, partnerships
evolving internationally, andthen the role of financial
institutions like the World Bank, et cetera.
How do you see that changing?
I mean, there's so much changein the financial services arena.
(06:41):
There's so much change, like wetalked about, with skills and
upskilling and the need for thatand AI overarching around all
of that.
What are you seeing there?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So there's a couple of notable events going to
happen this year.
Prior to the sustainabledevelopment goals in 2015, there
was a meeting of bothgovernment international
organizations.
There was a meeting of bothgovernment international
organizations, civil society andthe private sector in Ethiopia.
(07:13):
It was called Financing forDevelopment.
So everybody knew that no onecomponent, no one stakeholder
had enough financing to supportthe achievement and the
aspirations of the SDGs.
There's a follow-up to thatlater on in July in Seville, and
everybody knows that there'sbeen regression on many of the
SDGs, largely because of thepandemic and the financial
fallout of that.
(07:33):
So there's a reset around wheredo investments are most needed,
most urgent, and also, how doyou get a degree of scale and
pace?
So leveraging the dollar thatyou invest is crucial.
Now you have to amplify it 10times or 20 times, so something
that is at one or two timesreturn is no longer sufficient
(07:57):
to address the collective goalsthat we've all aspired to.
So that's one component.
The other component just kindof back to AI for a second.
We did release, with the WorldEconomic Forum during Davos, a
blueprint for AI, and this doesimpact on financing.
So let me give you a fewhighlights.
(08:18):
So the title is a bit of amouthful.
It's the blueprint forintelligent economies is a bit
of a mouthful.
It's the blueprint forintelligent economies, ai
competitiveness through regionalcollaboration.
So where that focuses onfinancing are three main
components.
One is in how do you build theappropriate infrastructure to
support technology advancements.
(08:39):
Also, then, how do you createan appropriate and fair data set
so you don't create inherentbias?
And then you also have tocreate the right guardrails that
don't kind of impede orrestrict development but at the
same time there's a degree ofcertainty and trust that the
technology can be used andshould be used for good purpose.
(09:03):
So let me focus on the firstpoint there, on around
infrastructure, because this iswhere a lot of dollars are
already pledged.
If you read any financial timesor publication, it's in the
trillions.
Data centers will cost whatthey cost and there are
well-established players in allregions now feeding into the big
(09:25):
tech companies.
Those established players arealso creating their own power
generation entities, because youcannot have a data center
without adding generation ofpower to the grid.
And how do you do that in asustainable way?
We saw Microsoft announce thatthey want to reopen three mile
(09:45):
island and have nuclear as apotential longer term solution.
It's a component, but it isprobably 10 plus years away.
But that's how far this isgoing to be reaching in terms of
investments and financing withrespect to just technology.
And then you know, in the shortterm, is enough power going to
(10:06):
be generated by renewables, yesor no?
And what does that transitionin terms of generation look like
in name your economy, uh, if,if they're fossil fuel based or
they have a blended uhgeneration power, etc.
Um, so a lot of money isalready vested, but how it gets
financed, who's the expected setof stakeholders and how it
(10:30):
shows itself in something thatis truly sustainable, that's an
open question.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Incredible.
But you're right there at thenexus of it all, watching it all
come together, and that'sreally what's incredibly
exciting from your vantage pointcorrect.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, we feel we have an obligation to provide some
insights and guidance to all ourclients and, as we look at that
complete convergence ofstakeholders, they are all our
clients.
So if we can get some insightor set of expectations from one
client and we feel it's relevantfor another, we we like to
provide that insight andreflection through the
(11:11):
day-to-day services that weoffer.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I love it, I love it, and so now there are many
challenges globally.
What do you see as the mostpressing, or at least a few of
the most pressing, and how isKPMG working to address them?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Some are conceptual, some are very tactical.
So we clearly have an erosionof trust globally.
There are think tanks andentities that track this concept
of trust, and they've beendoing it for decades.
We all operate in that world,even if we don't appreciate it.
(11:53):
We have to have trust in thebrands we buy.
We have to have trust in thebanks that we save with.
We have to have trust in thecapital markets.
We have to have trust on and on.
So it's an interesting thing totrack, though, with governments
with.
We have to have trust in thecapital markets.
We have to have trust, you know, on and on so it's an
interesting thing to track,though, with governments.
(12:14):
If you look at um, you knowestablished indices that look at
citizens trust in theirrespective governments.
It's not sweden or switzerland,it's saudi arabia, at 86
percent.
My own country, ireland, is at45 percent.
The average for the countriesthat are tracked is 51 percent.
(12:37):
The us, by the way, is at 40percent, and this this is as of
last July.
So it is an issue, because ifthere is a lack of trust in
those that set legislation, it'svery difficult then to charge a
path for creating conduciveenvironments for investment, for
(12:57):
sustainable development, forsocial impact.
So that's one.
For sustainable development,for social impact.
So that's one.
And then, very closely relatedis how do you inform citizens,
how do you inform stakeholdersand investors with the right
information?
We've never had access to moredata than today.
We've never had the ability toanalyze that data more than
(13:19):
today, and yet the distrust onwhat people are receiving has
never been higher.
So on one hand, you've gotabsolute increased transparency
and an individual can decidewhat data they get, what data
they analyze, et cetera, andthen the other people don't
trust it.
So put all that together, george, we're seeing a convergence of
(13:45):
an erosion of trust that doesimpact the day-to-day.
So that's on the kind ofconcept and then on the tactical
.
I think the bigger issues areever-present, you know, core
humanitarian support, respondingvery quickly and meaningfully
to humanitarian and naturaldisasters.
(14:05):
Hunger and food securityremains heightened in many parts
of the world.
Obviously, conflict is a bigpart of that.
And then natural resources whatare we doing?
Where to what natural resourceand how that gets shown in both
investments, extraction, use?
Those are ever present andthey're accelerating in terms of
(14:29):
their importance.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Well, Mark, your insights are invaluable and
you're seeing it country tocountry, region by region.
What strategies have you foundto be most effective with
aligning the corporate goalswith the mission of this
international investment arena?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So I would answer it in two ways appreciate we all
have, hopefully, good intentions, that each stakeholder that
I've articulated want to dosomething for good reasons, but
it shows itself in differentways, and be okay in explaining
(15:16):
what that is.
Be clear around yourexpectations.
Be clear around what it is wecan offer to reach a goal that
hopefully everyone then cancoalesce and be comfortable with
.
So that would be one.
Secondly, back to money.
There is plenty of money in theworld to address these issues,
(15:37):
you know writ large.
How do we channel them to a waythat is clear, that is
trackable, that's going to bereasonable in terms of where the
money goes and is it digestibleand fair to those who are
giving the money in terms of theend use?
So how do we unlock that in away that is efficient and also
(16:00):
recordable?
And I think the third area islargely going to go back to
where we kind of started around.
Technology is not going to fixall our problems, but it is a
massive tool to help many of ourbarriers and challenges if we
use it in the right way.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's right and that's so insightful, and the
background that you provided iswhat I think is most impactful
is the understanding that theunderpinning is trust, right,
and the trackability of wherethese funds are going.
Ultimately, the transparency iswhat you're referring to, right
?
It's a transparent frameworkfor what is the distribution and
(16:42):
what is ultimately the impactof that distributed funding.
And so how does KPMG helpgovernments, how do you help
governments and otherorganizations, nonprofits, et
cetera, around the world, ensurethat financial accountability
and the transparency that you'vealluded to in these types of
(17:02):
programs?
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
So some of it gets really down into the weeds, but
it all is all done so in theframing we've just gone over.
So one example would be we helpboth local, state and federal
governments with how they managetheir grants and that can be a
pretty smooth distribution ofgrants for the existing programs
(17:27):
.
But every now and again we geta dramatic event, like the
floods we had in the Carolinasor, you know, a hurricane in
another part of the country, andgrants and money needs to be
distributed quickly and you needto know who you're working.
Grants and money needs to bedistributed quickly and you need
to know who you're working withand you need to know where it's
going and what it wouldultimately be used for.
(17:48):
So we help those governments atall levels with the platforms,
using enhanced technology, howto get money from here to here
in a quick way but also arecordable way.
So you build efficiency but youalso build trust.
One is going to happen and two,you can keep track of what's
going on.
So that's just one very smallexample, sure, and you can
(18:09):
amplify that you know acrossmany other uh countries and and
sectors.
You know there was a lot ofthat developed during the
pandemic around health servicesand where to go and where to
potentially get supported.
We also do a lot of work withgovernments around how they're
(18:29):
going to pay for all of this.
So how do you create a taxregime that's fair, that is
easily implemented and thentrackable?
So it's a bit of everything,george.
So it's a bit of everything,george, but what we want to do
is leverage everything that wecan with all our clients to help
the public sector, and viceversa.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And what I've heard you say a few times and it's
awesome to hear, is trackableand recordable.
Those two words, I think, aresynonymous with accountability,
and that's what KPMG stands for,which I think is why.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, I suppose it goes naturally to a brand that's
focused on its origins as anauto firm and obviously that's a
big part of our business stilland we feel there's an
obligation to provide thatcredibility to a number,
whatever that number is, eitherto support capital markets or to
promote trust in citizens interms of public sector spending.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
The trust piece is also huge and the ability for
our global audience tounderstand the breadth and depth
of what you're doing and yourcapabilities and who you assist,
from the local level all theway to global governmental
entities.
It's incredible to hear and tosee, and I want to focus also on
leadership, because withoutleadership a lot of this is not
(19:54):
as effective.
And so, given your experience25 plus years hard to believe
again what leadership qualitiesin your experience, Mark, are
most critical for navigatingglobal, very complex challenges.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I'm going to give you two words that may seem a
little bit of odds with eachother, but they're equally
important.
You've got to have patience,but you also have to have
courage.
Sometimes people think thatcourage means you need to be
abrupt and create something thatjust might break a certain
(20:37):
apathy.
Maybe, but I think it's morearound courage, around a concept
and having absolute clarity indelivering that concept to
whoever you need it to be heardby and, as I say, it's always
going to be a multitude ofstakeholders.
So you need to have absoluteconsistency on your purpose and
(21:00):
delivering that message to thosethat are involved in the
project or program that you wantto implement.
But you also have to havepatience.
As I mentioned earlier, not allthose stakeholders are starting
from the same place, so nothingis one dimensional in this world
.
You don't ever just deal withone party to implement something
(21:23):
that's going to havesignificance, certainly at a
country level.
You've got to have the patienceto have them in, you know,
integrate into the concept,provide their input, acknowledge
that input.
You can agree to disagree, etc.
Etc.
But you've got to do that,otherwise you may get a small
(21:44):
win in the short term, but areyou going to be sustainable.
Are you going to have thatlong-term impact?
The data is very clear on that.
You're not.
You may have a year or two ofprogression, but over the longer
term, without that patience,you really are not going to to
(22:05):
see those longer term returns.
But then it moves back aroundto courage.
You've got to have the courageto be, you know, wedded to your
convictions and be patient andthen deliver over time.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And you know we've seen, you know, throughout
history a lack of courage andwhat that looks like.
And then we see what couragelooks like, and so it makes
total sense.
And then we've seen patients.
So I mean those two words,you're right, could be in
opposition, but actually theywork together Because you have
to have the courage and then, inaligning with that, the
(22:41):
patience to see through thatcourageous.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You know Some people confuse patience with a lack of
a decision, and I see it verydifferently.
You choose to be patient and itand that's your decision to be
patient.
And it can take courage to bepatient because there's a lot of
people pushing you to movefaster, right, but the whole
(23:08):
room isn't with you yet, so youneed to, you know, make that
decision.
So there's a there's a lot ofpeople pushing you to move
faster, but the whole room isn'twith you yet, so you need to
make that decision.
So there's a number of nuancesto those two words, but I think
in general, those are themesI've picked up on over the years
.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Incredible perspective and certainly based
on 25 plus years of experiencingand leading.
Those two words are extremelypowerful for our global audience
to take away.
Based on 25 plus years ofexperiencing and leading, those
two words are extremely powerfulfor our global audience to take
away.
And so what do you characterizeas a global mindset and how
critical this can be whenworking across the planet.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Well, first and foremost, just be aware that we
are all connected.
I'm a big proponent of eating,shopping locally and knowing
your local community.
That's absolutely crucial, Ithink, just to being a good
citizen, but just being awareand open to the reality that
(24:11):
pretty much everything around ushas a long thread that is
generally global when you getyour food from, who produces it?
What does the securitysituation look in?
Name your location.
How does that impact globalmarkets?
How do we manage internationaltrade in a way that we all
(24:31):
benefit from?
Could we do that better?
How do we collectively takeresponsibility for not just
being local but understandingthat by being local, you have an
impact globally?
And some people focus heavily onclimate resilience.
Some people focus on technologyand making sure that that's
(24:54):
shared appropriately and in anequitable way.
Some people focus on justbringing good products to market
and doing that in a way thatpeople can afford.
So, whatever way it shows up, Ithink just being open to the
fact that what you see in frontof you has a story behind it
that is usually global, and ifwe do that, then I think we can
(25:17):
start to understand howdifferent pieces of the kind of
playing board start to fittogether.
There are dramatic elements aswell geopolitics, wars and
conflicts and so forth and thosehave an impact for sure, but
those are the headlines.
I'm thinking more day to day,you know, everything's calm.
How does the world work?
(25:38):
Right, be open to that and Ithink you will find the right
answer.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, between leadership and the process, I
think, in having you know thingsthat are common sense.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
So common sense, in whatevercontext you can pull that
together, includes understandingthe geopolitical elements
around you.
Yeah, and so we arrive at theend of the interview and I say
(26:05):
to you what is your call toaction for our global audience
today?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
As ever.
I want to thank you for theinterview and also those who are
listening in.
I think that the main focuswould be let's not assume trust
as a concept that will be everpresent.
We need to nurture it.
We need to all play a role inmaking sure that that doesn't
(26:33):
get eroded to a point where it'smeaningless.
So that would be number one onmy list and number two would be
let's be a bit morecompassionate with each other.
We with each other.
(26:53):
We have seen an escalation ofanger and opinions and diversity
of ideology and so forth.
That I think existed throughouthistory, but the amplification
and the scale and the pace thatthat shows itself with today is
really not helpful.
So have the courage andpatience to have your
convictions fine.
That shows itself with today isreally not helpful.
So have the courage andpatience to have your
convictions fine, but be patientwith those who may not and
(27:17):
listen to them.
And if we can do that, then wecan work on the trust element
together.
We're not always going to agree, but we cannot let those
concepts erode to a level wherethey are irretrievable.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, and it goes back to common sense
patience, trust, leadership, allthe elements around, everything
you just highlighted in yourleadership of 25 plus years at
an amazing company andorganization, kpmg.
Thanks for all you're doing.
Thanks for your leadership,thanks for changing the world.
Thank you, george MarkFitzgerald, kpmg.
(27:51):
Thanks for all you're doing.
Thanks for your leadership,thanks for changing the world.
Thank you, george MarkFitzgerald, kpmg.
Welcome to IdeaGen TV , honored and thrilled to have
with me here today MarkFitzgerald from KPMG.
Mark, welcome.
Thank you, george.
Always a pleasure.
Great to have you here with ustoday.
Mark, live for IdeaGen TV andthe Catalyze podcast as well.
Mark, as we're looking at thisyear I mean my gosh, we're
(00:33):
already into February andstreaming into the rest of the
year.
What inspired you to pursue acareer in international
development finance and how didit end up with you leading
KPMG's practice in this area?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Thank you.
So I'll try and fit that into afew seconds if I could, because
it's over three decades andit's kind of evolved over those
three decades.
I would say it boils down totwo particular things.
One is I fundamentally believethat development comes from
within.
Sustainable development comesfrom within and it has to be led
(01:11):
by locally led initiatives andlargely, I see the private
sector is hugely influential inproviding that sustainability.
So a lot of what I focused onpersonally and through KPMG is
how we can unlock thatengagement through the private
sector to achieve social impactand development over time.
(01:32):
And I think the other big themeis by doing that you build
trust.
So with trust it underpinseverything that we do.
So if you can marry those two,I think for me that's a pretty
good, effective focus for acareer.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
That's incredible, and we're talking 25 years over
25 years of experience.
Hard to believe.
That can't be possible.
I know what are some of themost significant shifts you've
seen in development finance overthose 25 plus years of your
career.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
A couple of things.
One, if I take the more recentkind of focus, it's about
blending different stakeholdersand their objectives and their
expectations around what arethey looking to achieve around
sustainable development.
And it means different thingsto different stakeholders.
So you've got governments,you've got private enterprise,
you've got small, medium sizedenterprise, you got NGOs and
(02:30):
civil society.
They all bring something.
So we use kind of finance in avery broad way.
Yes, it's money, but it's alsoskills and resources.
So when you look at thedifferent components and the
stakeholders, they're bringingdifferent elements of that kind
of broader ecosystem to developsomething that's sustainable.
(02:51):
But I think that's relativelynew, I would say in the last
five, 10 years.
Prior to that, I would say,there were two main buckets.
One was very transactional,very private sector driven in
terms of what you would expectto see, and then there was the
international developmentcommunity, kind of focused on
producing programs they feltwere appropriate to generate
social impact.
What we're seeing now is thosetwo worlds coming together,
(03:14):
which has to be a good thing.
It doesn't happen withoutfriction and challenges, but
that's a progression that we aretotally invested in.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I love it.
I love it and so challenges.
What are the biggest challengesfacing international
development funding at thisstage?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So I'm going to go off on a slight tangent, not so
much directly related to funding, but it is everywhere in a
discussion related to funding,and that's ai um.
So we had a major presence indavos in the world economic
forum, as we do every year, andthat was the major theme of the
week um, it was even in the uhkind of the address that
(03:56):
president trump had with uh,with the plenary session in
davos.
What that means, though, inpractice is two aspects One is
access to what AI could andshould be, and then the other
point to that is how you thenbenefit from AI.
There are two very differentthings, and I'll explain why.
(04:17):
We had the so-called digitaldivide, largely because people
who could access the internetversus those who could not.
One group was very muchadvancing because they had that
leg up in terms of that access,and then the others did not.
What we have right now is aslightly different situation,
(04:39):
where a lot of people do haveaccess to AI tools, largely
through their phones, and wehave both emerging markets and
developed markets, saturationaround access to smartphones,
etc.
So I think we're fixing access.
The issue is around benefit.
So how do you upskill aworkforce?
(05:00):
How do you provide theguardrails and the regulatory
framework in place for us tobenefit from AI?
So, round away to answer yourquestion, george, funding at the
moment is being developed tosupport the infrastructure of AI
and also how it's beingpositioned with governments,
with private sector and then,ultimately, with citizens.
(05:23):
So international community andinternational development
organizations are assessing howtheir funding models will adjust
accordingly, and that'sfascinating to see.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Even in the United States, it's Career and
Technical Education Month thismonth, and so, aligning the
careers of the future withindustry, you're at the nexus of
that, right.
I mean, this is what you'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Let me give you a quick anecdote.
I had an update this morningfrom one of our analysts so the
chief economist at LinkedIn.
She just talked aboutintelligence and the use of
artificial intelligence on theworkforce.
Writ large, so not specific toany particular country, but
their analysis have shown that70% of all jobs will be affected
(06:09):
by 2030 by AI.
Now, the amount of change andthe amount of impact obviously
that depends on the job, butthat's the degree that we're
talking about here.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
That's incredible and that may be even higher, who
knows?
Yeah, yeah, and so the role ofthe private sector, partnerships
evolving internationally, andthen the role of financial
institutions like the World Bank, et cetera.
How do you see that changing?
I mean, there's so much changein the financial services arena.
(06:41):
There's so much change, like wetalked about, with skills and
upskilling and the need for thatand AI overarching around all
of that.
What are you seeing there?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So there's a couple of notable events going to
happen this year.
Prior to the sustainabledevelopment goals in 2015, there
was a meeting of bothgovernment international
organizations.
There was a meeting of bothgovernment international
organizations, civil society andthe private sector in Ethiopia.
(07:13):
It was called Financing forDevelopment.
So everybody knew that no onecomponent, no one stakeholder
had enough financing to supportthe achievement and the
aspirations of the SDGs.
There's a follow-up to thatlater on in July in Seville, and
everybody knows that there'sbeen regression on many of the
SDGs, largely because of thepandemic and the financial
fallout of that.
(07:33):
So there's a reset around wheredo investments are most needed,
most urgent, and also, how doyou get a degree of scale and
pace?
So leveraging the dollar thatyou invest is crucial.
Now you have to amplify it 10times or 20 times, so something
that is at one or two timesreturn is no longer sufficient
(07:57):
to address the collective goalsthat we've all aspired to.
So that's one component.
The other component just kindof back to AI for a second.
We did release, with the WorldEconomic Forum during Davos, a
blueprint for AI, and this doesimpact on financing.
So let me give you a fewhighlights.
(08:18):
So the title is a bit of amouthful.
It's the blueprint forintelligent economies is a bit
of a mouthful.
It's the blueprint forintelligent economies, ai
competitiveness through regionalcollaboration.
So where that focuses onfinancing are three main
components.
One is in how do you build theappropriate infrastructure to
support technology advancements.
(08:39):
Also, then, how do you createan appropriate and fair data set
so you don't create inherentbias?
And then you also have tocreate the right guardrails that
don't kind of impede orrestrict development but at the
same time there's a degree ofcertainty and trust that the
technology can be used andshould be used for good purpose.
(09:03):
So let me focus on the firstpoint there, on around
infrastructure, because this iswhere a lot of dollars are
already pledged.
If you read any financial timesor publication, it's in the
trillions.
Data centers will cost whatthey cost and there are
well-established players in allregions now feeding into the big
(09:25):
tech companies.
Those established players arealso creating their own power
generation entities, because youcannot have a data center
without adding generation ofpower to the grid.
And how do you do that in asustainable way?
We saw Microsoft announce thatthey want to reopen three mile
(09:45):
island and have nuclear as apotential longer term solution.
It's a component, but it isprobably 10 plus years away.
But that's how far this isgoing to be reaching in terms of
investments and financing withrespect to just technology.
And then you know, in the shortterm, is enough power going to
(10:06):
be generated by renewables, yesor no?
And what does that transitionin terms of generation look like
in name your economy, uh, if,if they're fossil fuel based or
they have a blended uhgeneration power, etc.
Um, so a lot of money isalready vested, but how it gets
financed, who's the expected setof stakeholders and how it
(10:30):
shows itself in something thatis truly sustainable, that's an
open question.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Incredible.
But you're right there at thenexus of it all, watching it all
come together, and that'sreally what's incredibly
exciting from your vantage pointcorrect.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, we feel we have an obligation to provide some
insights and guidance to all ourclients and, as we look at that
complete convergence ofstakeholders, they are all our
clients.
So if we can get some insightor set of expectations from one
client and we feel it's relevantfor another, we we like to
provide that insight andreflection through the
(11:11):
day-to-day services that weoffer.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I love it, I love it, and so now there are many
challenges globally.
What do you see as the mostpressing, or at least a few of
the most pressing, and how isKPMG working to address them?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Some are conceptual, some are very tactical.
So we clearly have an erosionof trust globally.
There are think tanks andentities that track this concept
of trust, and they've beendoing it for decades.
We all operate in that world,even if we don't appreciate it.
(11:53):
We have to have trust in thebrands we buy.
We have to have trust in thebanks that we save with.
We have to have trust in thecapital markets.
We have to have trust on and on.
So it's an interesting thing totrack, though, with governments
with.
We have to have trust in thecapital markets.
We have to have trust, you know, on and on so it's an
interesting thing to track,though, with governments.
(12:14):
If you look at um, you knowestablished indices that look at
citizens trust in theirrespective governments.
It's not sweden or switzerland,it's saudi arabia, at 86
percent.
My own country, ireland, is at45 percent.
The average for the countriesthat are tracked is 51 percent.
(12:37):
The us, by the way, is at 40percent, and this this is as of
last July.
So it is an issue, because ifthere is a lack of trust in
those that set legislation, it'svery difficult then to charge a
path for creating conduciveenvironments for investment, for
(12:57):
sustainable development, forsocial impact.
So that's one.
For sustainable development,for social impact.
So that's one.
And then, very closely relatedis how do you inform citizens,
how do you inform stakeholdersand investors with the right
information?
We've never had access to moredata than today.
We've never had the ability toanalyze that data more than
(13:19):
today, and yet the distrust onwhat people are receiving has
never been higher.
So on one hand, you've gotabsolute increased transparency
and an individual can decidewhat data they get, what data
they analyze, et cetera, andthen the other people don't
trust it.
So put all that together, george, we're seeing a convergence of
(13:45):
an erosion of trust that doesimpact the day-to-day.
So that's on the kind ofconcept and then on the tactical
.
I think the bigger issues areever-present, you know, core
humanitarian support, respondingvery quickly and meaningfully
to humanitarian and naturaldisasters.
(14:05):
Hunger and food securityremains heightened in many parts
of the world.
Obviously, conflict is a bigpart of that.
And then natural resources whatare we doing?
Where to what natural resourceand how that gets shown in both
investments, extraction, use?
Those are ever present andthey're accelerating in terms of
(14:29):
their importance.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Well, Mark, your insights are invaluable and
you're seeing it country tocountry, region by region.
What strategies have you foundto be most effective with
aligning the corporate goalswith the mission of this
international investment arena?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So I would answer it in two ways appreciate we all
have, hopefully, good intentions, that each stakeholder that
I've articulated want to dosomething for good reasons, but
it shows itself in differentways, and be okay in explaining
(15:16):
what that is.
Be clear around yourexpectations.
Be clear around what it is wecan offer to reach a goal that
hopefully everyone then cancoalesce and be comfortable with
.
So that would be one.
Secondly, back to money.
There is plenty of money in theworld to address these issues,
(15:37):
you know writ large.
How do we channel them to a waythat is clear, that is
trackable, that's going to bereasonable in terms of where the
money goes and is it digestibleand fair to those who are
giving the money in terms of theend use?
So how do we unlock that in away that is efficient and also
(16:00):
recordable?
And I think the third area islargely going to go back to
where we kind of started around.
Technology is not going to fixall our problems, but it is a
massive tool to help many of ourbarriers and challenges if we
use it in the right way.
That's right.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's right and that's so insightful, and the
background that you provided iswhat I think is most impactful
is the understanding that theunderpinning is trust, right,
and the trackability of wherethese funds are going.
Ultimately, the transparency iswhat you're referring to, right
?
It's a transparent frameworkfor what is the distribution and
(16:42):
what is ultimately the impactof that distributed funding.
And so how does KPMG helpgovernments, how do you help
governments and otherorganizations, nonprofits, et
cetera, around the world, ensurethat financial accountability
and the transparency that you'vealluded to in these types of
(17:02):
programs?
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
So some of it gets really down into the weeds, but
it all is all done so in theframing we've just gone over.
So one example would be we helpboth local, state and federal
governments with how they managetheir grants and that can be a
pretty smooth distribution ofgrants for the existing programs
(17:27):
.
But every now and again we geta dramatic event, like the
floods we had in the Carolinasor, you know, a hurricane in
another part of the country, andgrants and money needs to be
distributed quickly and you needto know who you're working.
Grants and money needs to bedistributed quickly and you need
to know who you're working withand you need to know where it's
going and what it wouldultimately be used for.
(17:48):
So we help those governments atall levels with the platforms,
using enhanced technology, howto get money from here to here
in a quick way but also arecordable way.
So you build efficiency but youalso build trust.
One is going to happen and two,you can keep track of what's
going on.
So that's just one very smallexample, sure, and you can
(18:09):
amplify that you know acrossmany other uh countries and and
sectors.
You know there was a lot ofthat developed during the
pandemic around health servicesand where to go and where to
potentially get supported.
We also do a lot of work withgovernments around how they're
(18:29):
going to pay for all of this.
So how do you create a taxregime that's fair, that is
easily implemented and thentrackable?
So it's a bit of everything,george.
So it's a bit of everything,george, but what we want to do
is leverage everything that wecan with all our clients to help
the public sector, and viceversa.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And what I've heard you say a few times and it's
awesome to hear, is trackableand recordable.
Those two words, I think, aresynonymous with accountability,
and that's what KPMG stands for,which I think is why.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah, I suppose it goes naturally to a brand that's
focused on its origins as anauto firm and obviously that's a
big part of our business stilland we feel there's an
obligation to provide thatcredibility to a number,
whatever that number is, eitherto support capital markets or to
promote trust in citizens interms of public sector spending.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
The trust piece is also huge and the ability for
our global audience tounderstand the breadth and depth
of what you're doing and yourcapabilities and who you assist,
from the local level all theway to global governmental
entities.
It's incredible to hear and tosee, and I want to focus also on
leadership, because withoutleadership a lot of this is not
(19:54):
as effective.
And so, given your experience25 plus years hard to believe
again what leadership qualitiesin your experience, Mark, are
most critical for navigatingglobal, very complex challenges.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I'm going to give you two words that may seem a
little bit of odds with eachother, but they're equally
important.
You've got to have patience,but you also have to have
courage.
Sometimes people think thatcourage means you need to be
abrupt and create something thatjust might break a certain
(20:37):
apathy.
Maybe, but I think it's morearound courage, around a concept
and having absolute clarity indelivering that concept to
whoever you need it to be heardby and, as I say, it's always
going to be a multitude ofstakeholders.
So you need to have absoluteconsistency on your purpose and
(21:00):
delivering that message to thosethat are involved in the
project or program that you wantto implement.
But you also have to havepatience.
As I mentioned earlier, not allthose stakeholders are starting
from the same place, so nothingis one dimensional in this world
.
You don't ever just deal withone party to implement something
(21:23):
that's going to havesignificance, certainly at a
country level.
You've got to have the patienceto have them in, you know,
integrate into the concept,provide their input, acknowledge
that input.
You can agree to disagree, etc.
Etc.
But you've got to do that,otherwise you may get a small
(21:44):
win in the short term, but areyou going to be sustainable.
Are you going to have thatlong-term impact?
The data is very clear on that.
You're not.
You may have a year or two ofprogression, but over the longer
term, without that patience,you really are not going to to
(22:05):
see those longer term returns.
But then it moves back aroundto courage.
You've got to have the courageto be, you know, wedded to your
convictions and be patient andthen deliver over time.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And you know we've seen, you know, throughout
history a lack of courage andwhat that looks like.
And then we see what couragelooks like, and so it makes
total sense.
And then we've seen patients.
So I mean those two words,you're right, could be in
opposition, but actually theywork together Because you have
to have the courage and then, inaligning with that, the
(22:41):
patience to see through thatcourageous.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
You know Some people confuse patience with a lack of
a decision, and I see it verydifferently.
You choose to be patient and itand that's your decision to be
patient.
And it can take courage to bepatient because there's a lot of
people pushing you to movefaster, right, but the whole
(23:08):
room isn't with you yet, so youneed to, you know, make that
decision.
So there's a there's a lot ofpeople pushing you to move
faster, but the whole room isn'twith you yet, so you need to
make that decision.
So there's a number of nuancesto those two words, but I think
in general, those are themesI've picked up on over the years
.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Incredible perspective and certainly based
on 25 plus years of experiencingand leading.
Those two words are extremelypowerful for our global audience
to take away.
Based on 25 plus years ofexperiencing and leading, those
two words are extremely powerfulfor our global audience to take
away.
And so what do you characterizeas a global mindset and how
critical this can be whenworking across the planet.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Well, first and foremost, just be aware that we
are all connected.
I'm a big proponent of eating,shopping locally and knowing
your local community.
That's absolutely crucial, Ithink, just to being a good
citizen, but just being awareand open to the reality that
(24:11):
pretty much everything around ushas a long thread that is
generally global when you getyour food from, who produces it?
What does the securitysituation look in?
Name your location.
How does that impact globalmarkets?
How do we manage internationaltrade in a way that we all
(24:31):
benefit from?
Could we do that better?
How do we collectively takeresponsibility for not just
being local but understandingthat by being local, you have an
impact globally?
And some people focus heavily onclimate resilience.
Some people focus on technologyand making sure that that's
(24:54):
shared appropriately and in anequitable way.
Some people focus on justbringing good products to market
and doing that in a way thatpeople can afford.
So, whatever way it shows up, Ithink just being open to the
fact that what you see in frontof you has a story behind it
that is usually global, and ifwe do that, then I think we can
(25:17):
start to understand howdifferent pieces of the kind of
playing board start to fittogether.
There are dramatic elements aswell geopolitics, wars and
conflicts and so forth and thosehave an impact for sure, but
those are the headlines.
I'm thinking more day to day,you know, everything's calm.
How does the world work?
(25:38):
Right, be open to that and Ithink you will find the right
answer.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, between leadership and the process, I
think, in having you know thingsthat are common sense.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
So common sense, in whatevercontext you can pull that
together, includes understandingthe geopolitical elements
around you.
Yeah, and so we arrive at theend of the interview and I say
(26:05):
to you what is your call toaction for our global audience
today?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
As ever.
I want to thank you for theinterview and also those who are
listening in.
I think that the main focuswould be let's not assume trust
as a concept that will be everpresent.
We need to nurture it.
We need to all play a role inmaking sure that that doesn't
(26:33):
get eroded to a point where it'smeaningless.
So that would be number one onmy list and number two would be
let's be a bit morecompassionate with each other.
We with each other.
(26:53):
We have seen an escalation ofanger and opinions and diversity
of ideology and so forth.
That I think existed throughouthistory, but the amplification
and the scale and the pace thatthat shows itself with today is
really not helpful.
So have the courage andpatience to have your
convictions fine.
That shows itself with today isreally not helpful.
So have the courage andpatience to have your
convictions fine, but be patientwith those who may not and
(27:17):
listen to them.
And if we can do that, then wecan work on the trust element
together.
We're not always going to agree, but we cannot let those
concepts erode to a level wherethey are irretrievable.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, and it goes back to common sense
patience, trust, leadership, allthe elements around, everything
you just highlighted in yourleadership of 25 plus years at
an amazing company andorganization, kpmg.
Thanks for all you're doing.
Thanks for your leadership,thanks for changing the world.
Thank you, george MarkFitzgerald, kpmg.
(27:51):
Thanks for all you're doing.
Thanks for your leadership,thanks for changing the world.
Thank you, george MarkFitzgerald, kpmg.
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