New York’s streets may be closed for UN Week, but the doors to a different kind of summit are wide open: a pastor and two clinicians speaking plainly about stigma, access, and the future of mental health care. From a rare disease and a near-fatal stroke to a 10,000-member congregation, we trace how one leader’s decision to seek therapy led to a free, community-powered clinic in Harlem—and why moving care outside the church walls helped people walk in without shame.
We explore what equitable access truly looks like: a clinic with no cost barriers, flexible hours, and an interdisciplinary team spanning psychiatry, psychology, social work, faith leadership, and public health. Then we widen the lens—embedding mental health in primary care, building supports into schools for early intervention, and using clear, consistent communication to normalize asking for help. Along the way, we confront demand head-on: long waitlists signal need, but they also represent trust gained when neighbors see care working for people like them.
Technology enters the discussion with nuance. AI and teletherapy can scale evidence-based interventions to communities with too few clinicians, yet youth safety and ethics can’t be an afterthought. The panel speaks candidly about reports of harmful chatbot interactions, setting a high bar for guardrails and naming the four screen-era harms that shape development: social deprivation, sleep loss, attention fragmentation, and addiction. The conversation also addresses burnout across helping professions and corporate teams, connecting the dots between culture, policy, and performance. The data is clear: organizations that support mental health outperform, and leaders who model rest and therapy make it safe for others to follow.
If you care about mental health equity, youth well-being, responsible AI, and healthier workplaces, this is a blueprint you can use. Subscribe, share this episode with someone who leads people, and leave a review with one change you want your organization to make next.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
Welcome back to the Idea Gen Global Leadership
Summit.
We have another excitinginterview today.
I'd like to welcome to the stageDr.
Sidney Hengerson, Dr.
Alina Green, and Pastor MikeWalrant.
The Dream Team.
The Dream Team.
(00:34):
The Dream Team.
And so what an incredibleinterview.
We're here live at the Nasdaq.
And what a moment in time.
On the sidelines of the UnitedNations General Assembly, you've
got all the world leaders, roadsare closed, difficult to get
across town, but yet here we aretalking about some incredibly
(00:59):
important issues.
And more so now than ever,right?
This is a moment in time.
And so I'd like to begin byasking um professional journey.
Most people have a story aboutwhat brought them to their
profession or even how theybecame interested in the topic
(01:20):
of mental health.
Mental health, especiallypost-COVID, I mean, we're all
we've all we all went through ittogether.
And mental health now, you know,and and you can talk about the
reasons and the factors aroundit, but mental health, first of
all, folks are more aware ofwhat it is or what it is not.
(01:41):
Um, but also how it's impactingsociety, the global society.
Would you kindly share, whoeverwould like to share this, okay.
Um how you became a clinician oradvocate in the field of mental
health and wellness.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
Uh yes, well, thank you for that question for having
us today.
I'm gonna be very brief becauseit's a long story how I became
an advocate.
But uh it started for me in2012, and that was the year I
myself started to seek therapy.
The background to that was Ihave an extremely rare disease.
(02:21):
Um I tell people there's 340million people in this country,
and it's only just under 6,000who have this condition.
It's called common variableimmunodeficiency, which means I
was born with no antibodies.
So I don't have a real immunesystem.
So every four weeks I have toget an infusion of synthetic
antibodies.
(02:41):
But over the years, it wasdiagnosed late in life, and over
the years, hospitalized about 25times, survived sepsis three
times, had a massive stroke in2018.
And what was happening in 12 isthat I didn't know what was
really going on, but it was deepdepression and serving as a
pastor at the same time of anextremely large congregation.
(03:04):
And I didn't, I felt like thingswere unraveling, not with work,
fine, but personally, and it wasdue to the sickness, constantly
sick, always going to hospitals.
And so, and this is before theofficial diagnosis took place.
And so I had a staff member whoused to always talk about
therapy, and I asked her oneday, I said, you know, who's
(03:24):
your therapist?
And she told me, I'd never knownabout therapy, never talked
about therapy before withanyone, never crossed my mind,
but I knew something was goingon that was having a tremendous
impact on me mentally andemotionally.
And so I sought out a therapist.
She's still my therapist to thisday, 13 years later, an amazing
human being who I will say savedmy life.
(03:46):
But what I realized is that ifif a therapist was able to do
for me what she did, there arecountless other people who could
benefit.
So in 2012, the same year Istarted therapy, uh, we hired a
therapist on staff at the churchto now offer free mental health
care to the members of thecongregation.
Congregation is about 10,000members, so that one person got
(04:08):
pretty swamped.
And you could imagine, andstarted bringing on interns and
the like.
And fast forward 2016, what Irealized is one day I was in the
lobby of the church, and we sawa young woman who was coming to
see our therapist on staff.
Her name was Joyce, thetherapist's name was Joyce
Johnson.
And the woman came through thefront door as I happened to be
(04:29):
in the lobby, and I saw herwhisper Joyce's name.
It was as if she was ashamed tocome to the church to see the
therapist.
And in that moment, I said, weneed a space completely separate
from the church, so people don'thave to bring that shame in.
And four years later, we wereable to get a space around the
corner from the church.
And so we opened that in 2016,and that uh to this day is doing
(04:53):
amazing work led by Dr.
Green.
What we call the Hope Center,healing on purpose and evolving
for those, and we offered freemental health care to the entire
Harlem community.
And Dr.
Green will talk more about that,but to this day the wait list is
about what now?
Over 250 people on the waitlist.
Uh so we're in the doing greatwork, but it is necessary work.
(05:16):
So I'll I'll pause on that partthere.
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
That's incredible.
And it located in Harlem.
SPEAKER_03 (05:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
10,000 members.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
That's a lot of members.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
It's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
That's a lot of people.
And two, and did I hearcorrectly?
Did you say 250 people on thewaiting list?
SPEAKER_03 (05:32):
200.
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
To get assistance?
SPEAKER_03 (05:34):
Yeah, but it two things.
One, it shows the incredibleneed.
Yeah.
But also, I think the work we'vedone in the community, we've
helped people, I would say wekind of liberated some people to
feel comfortable with pursuingmental health care.
There's a deep stigma in theAfrican-American community.
And so I think we've been ablein some way in our community to
(05:56):
kind of deal with that stigma.
And we've seen the numbers growover the years.
SPEAKER_02 (06:01):
Yeah, we work closely with the American
Psychiatric AssociationFoundation, Dr.
Roel Andrews Jr., and uh hisleadership has been profound.
Um and and I know enough to bedangerous, but I think the uh
the idea that there's a stigmato destigmatize, um, especially
as we talked about earlier withCOVID and isolation and all the
(06:25):
other things that you read aboutevery single day, and statistics
that I can't even repeat becausethey're so startling, especially
with teenagers and teenage girlsand boys and and and and their
their state um today.
I think what you're doing isprofound, Pastor.
And uh we're grateful to peoplelike you that are truly changing
the world.
SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
It has definitely been a a labor, but a labor of
love in a man.
And I have to often remindpeople we were doing this work
before it became popular to dothis work.
Yeah.
You know, especially post-COVID.
SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
That's an important footnote.
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
You didn't just show up when you read the head the
headline.
SPEAKER_03 (07:02):
No, and we were prepared in your part.
You know, in that moment that wewere able to offer services so
that when COVID hit and churcheswere shut down, we were able to
transition to doing teletherapyat the Hope Center.
And that made a big, big impact.
But again, we were alreadymoving and doing before things
went kind of haywire in thiscountry with COVID.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
So Yeah, we've had the opportunity to talk to NFL
athletes, for example, that havethat have uh uh uh you know
experienced you know realcrises.
And they're it's startling.
You think you're you're at thetop of your game, you're you're
you're really the pinnacle ofyour career, and yet you can
still have a mental healthcrisis.
Absolutely.
And if you don't have the tools,the coach, the person to talk
(07:43):
to.
That's what I love about the uhAPAF is they talk about you can
talk to anybody.
You talk to your pastor, youdon't have to go to a
psychiatrist, you can go toanybody and and and talk to
them, and and if you needprofessional help, sure, of
course.
Uh but that's what we're talkingabout.
Let's talk a little bit aboutmental health equity.
Um, despite growing awareness,access, and I think you've
(08:03):
pointed that out to quality,mental health care remains
deeply unequal acrosscommunities for various reasons
that we all probably can alludeto.
What are the most criticalsystemic changes needed to
ensure equitable access to care,especially for marginalized
populations?
(08:24):
You have food deserts, you havehealthcare deserts, I'm assuming
you also have, along with that,a mental health care desert.
How do you how do you helppeople?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Um so just uh to share a little bit about my own
personal background, um I'm adoctor of clinical social work
as well as a psychotherapist,um, and run the community-based
mental health clinic that PastorMike is talking about.
Um, and I would say when wethink about equitable access,
um, there are several thingsthat are important as we think
about access to care, especiallyin marginalized communities.
(08:57):
Um, so the community-basedmental health clinic that we run
is actually free, right?
So financial barriers don't getin the way of people getting
access to care.
Um, on that staff, we have umfaith leaders, we have
psychiatrists, social workers,psychologists, um, we also have
folks who join us from the realmof public health, so that we are
(09:20):
making sure that we're takingcare of the whole person.
Um, I would say, in addition tothat, um we provide flexible
schedules so folks can come fromeight o'clock in the morning to
six o'clock in the evening,including the weekends.
So we're open on Saturdays, andfolks know how to get access to
care.
Um, so we're constantlyproviding messages, um, making
(09:40):
sure that we're working ondestigmatizing, which I'm sure
we'll talk a little bit moreabout later.
Um, and then when we think aboutother areas, right, we think
about making mental health careaccessible beyond the
institutions, right?
So we need hospital-based careservices and um so thinking
about folding mental health careinto primary care, right, so
that folks know that they can uhreceive services for their
(10:02):
mental and physical health inthe same space.
Um, and I think we can alsothink about schools, right?
Um, schools are an important wayto uh think about early
intervention for care, butfolding that right into the
system so that people um canaccess services wherever they
are, specifically our youth aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Incredible.
Thanks for all you're doing.
It sounds you know like you'rereally moving the needle, you
know, and it's so critical tohave that access.
Um we talked a little bit alittle bit about AI.
And um we see all of theseplatforms coming at us, and uh,
we heard about Agentic, we heardabout all these different areas
in AI.
(10:39):
Now, let's talk a little bitabout something really
interesting, which is digitaltherapy and AI.
With the right rise of AI-driventools and these teletherapy
platforms and faith-basedplatforms, we've seen the
commercials, right?
Um it's incredible what's goingon.
And so, how do you seetechnology reshaping potentially
(11:05):
the therapeutic relationship?
And are there concerns that youhave around integrating these
new innovations into care?
And I'll ask um Dr.
Sidney Hankerson that question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Sure.
Uh so first, thank you, George,for providing this platform.
And I I just want to give alittle bit about my background.
Um, so I am um vice chair ofpsychiatry at Mount Sinai Health
System here in New York City.
Um, and in that capacity, uhcharged with really expanding
access to care uh for vulnerablepopulations.
(11:44):
I also do a lot of work withFortune 500 companies who've
seen a rise in challenges andstressors in their workforce,
especially in financialservices.
And I'm also on the NFL'sBehavioral Wellness Committee,
and I'm one of two psychiatristsin the country that is a second
opinion physician for the MBA.
Um, so we want the Knicks to winthis year.
(12:04):
Uh but if any players in theleague have a mental health
challenge, I'm one of twopsychiatrists that will see
that.
So I just want to highlight uhfor those of you who are not
familiar with the black churchtradition, how rare it is for
Pastor Rowland to share hisstory.
The equivalent of that is forall of the 3,000 CEOs that you
(12:25):
interviewed to publicly talkabout seeing a therapist on this
stage.
It's unprecedented.
And it has led to a culturalshift in how people talk about,
think about, and accessservices.
So I share that because I thinkthat when we talk about
(12:46):
technology, I think theimportant thing is how can we
scale, how can we bring to morepeople evidence-based
interventions, especially forpeople across the globe, as
we're thinking about UN Week,who do not have access to
doctors of social work orpsychologists or psychiatrists?
(13:09):
How do we bring to scaleevidence-based interventions in
the far corners of the globe?
Uh, and thinking about countrieslike Africa and India, where
there are literally five or sixpsychiatrists for millions of
people.
I think that is the promise oftechnology is how can we
actually scale and get access topeople across the globe who
(13:31):
otherwise wouldn't get it.
And we've seen an explosion oftechnology-based platforms,
AI-based platforms post-COVIDand certainly with AI.
I think the things that we don'tknow and what we have to study
is how AI could potentially beharmful.
(13:52):
There's been some reports ofyouth in particular talking to
AI platforms as theirtherapists.
There have been reports of youthactually dying by suicide at the
behest of an AI app.
And so I think we are at acritical moment at this
intersection of technology andmental health.
(14:15):
Where we embrace the promise ofincreased access and scale, but
we have to do so in a way thatis ethical, that is rigorous,
and that does not replace thehuman interaction and safeguards
that we know will prevent folksfrom using the technology in a
(14:38):
way that is harmful.
SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
I want to add to that something I guess, and I
and I love what Sydney justsaid, but I want to add to that,
especially for this audience.
We know what technology does andhow it helps advance us
culturally, but the impact onthe young people is is is hard,
and we don't often hearconversations about that.
(15:02):
This is this amazing book byJonathan Haidt called The
Anxious Generation.
And there are four things hekind of highlights that young
people suffer from.
One is uh social deprivation,sleep deprivation, uh attention
fragmentation, and addiction.
That you have young people whoare in the early years of
(15:24):
development are so locked in totheir smartphones and their
tablets and will stay on themall night long and deprive
themselves of sleep.
And I think anyone knows theimportance in the years of
developing the brain, howimportant sleep is.
Social deprivation.
You have young people now whoare awkward in social settings
(15:45):
because their interaction hasbeen through a tablet, through a
phone, and not real engagementwith other human beings.
And that takes a toll.
That leads to this attentionfragmentation.
We all know what that is.
You don't have to be a youngperson to know what that is.
You're doing something, you geta notification on the phone, you
jump here.
You may call it multitasking,but there's no ability to really
focus in and center on what hasto be done.
(16:06):
And then there's the addictionpart that I think many of us,
not just young people, findourselves addicted to the
technology, addicted to thephones.
I have a friend of mine, I'vetold her numerous times, you
need to get off of social media.
You're on too much all day long.
I said, Do you have a job?
And I, but posting, posting,posting frenetically.
And I think that's part of it.
(16:27):
You feel is this fear of missingout, or fear of not being
relevant.
And at the heart of it all, foryoung people, adults, is this
addiction to attention andaddiction, the particular kind
of affirmation that I think canbe problematic, especially as
those who are in their teenyears now develop.
We're gonna see that and feelthat in years to come.
SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
Yeah, and you couple that with isolation from the
COVID and the you know, all ofthat that we all collectively
went through as a planet.
We all remember the moment withBacelli singing in the Duomo.
Right that moment.
SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:58):
I mean, that was as dire as it got.
And um, and here we are dealingwith the aftermath.
Yeah.
And and a lot of what, Pastor,you're describing is it's
startling, and I think, youknow, and I hope that um that
it's being addressed as youmentioned, Dr.
Hankerson, I and and Dr.
(17:19):
Green, you know, it's um it's amoment in time, especially with
global leaders assembled here inNew York, uh, talking about all
of these issues.
When we talk about what are theglobal issues, this is this is
one for our time.
Absolutely.
And and I think school systems,when we're talking about
education, we're talking aboutbeing able to communicate, to be
(17:40):
able to do the basic things.
I like to still use a telephone,remember?
I also use a an a conferenceline, throws people off a little
bit, right?
And so you know, I'm not aLudite, but I but I believe
that, but but it's importantthough that our kids, that this
(18:01):
future generations, as we'regoing in now, we're relying on
them for the future.
And this is what we're talkingabout here.
This is existential.
It's not just like, oh, it's anice to-do, you know, like I I
always thought it was importantthat you teach kids to look
someone in the eye and shaketheir hand, and now you're
talking about the digitalcomponent and it's constant, and
(18:22):
it's algorithms, and it's allthese things.
So I think the fact that we'rehaving this conversation is
positive.
I think, Pastor, thank you foryour courage.
I want to give you a hand here.
Let's let's give uh for yourcourage on behalf of so many of
the 10,000 members that can'tget past that.
A church with 10,000 members,I'm Greek Orthodox.
(18:45):
We have maybe a thousand, youknow, uh in in our churches.
10,000 is is is is you know, mygosh, uh so many people that
you're helping.
Let's talk a little bit aboutburnout.
Burnout in helping professions.
I mean, we all hear abouthealthcare.
We have a lot ofhealthcare-related organizations
here today.
(19:05):
Burnout, let's talk about that.
Who would like to address that?
Doctor?
SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
I mean, sure.
Sure.
So um, you know, burnout hasbecome a big topic uh in the
world, especially among mentalhealth professionals, because we
have uh our caseloads havedoubled, tripled, quadrupled in
many instances uh post-COVID.
Uh, but burnout is is really acondition where you feel
(19:31):
detached from work, um, you arenot as productive, um, and you
feel just complete physicalexhaustion.
And so burnout is one of themajor risk factors for clinical
depression.
And I bring up clinicaldepression because you know, the
World Health Organization, in alandmark study a few years ago,
(19:55):
said that depression is thenumber one cause of disability
in the world.
So more people are suffering inthe world in silence from
depression than any other healthcondition.
And in New York City, depressionis the number one cause of
disability in New York City.
And so uh it's critical forglobal leaders in the workplace
(20:18):
to think about how they arecreating cultures that
facilitate wellness, thatfacilitate access to resources,
um, that allow employees to cometogether.
You know, I think so much ofburnout um happens because we
are on Zoom literally from nineto five, and you don't literally
(20:41):
have time to even go use thebathroom.
Because you got to get off onecall and go to the next.
That's real.
And so I think that as we, youknow, are coming back to a uh a
more kind of hybrid typeenvironment, really um, indeed,
I'll just share this, um,indeed, uh published a survey of
(21:04):
the companies that are are mostknown for promoting wellness.
And over the last um, I think itwas 10 years, they cited these
companies that had employeesthat had a sense of purpose,
that felt like their leaderssupported them to see a
therapist, that created accessto mental health resources,
(21:24):
these companies actually performbetter than the SP 500.
So it's good business to supportemployee mental health and
well-being.
And being able to name andidentify burnout and come up
with tangible strategies to dothat, I think is critical and is
also a competitive advantage inthe marketplace.
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Yeah, I just want to add to that.
Um, so creating that culturalwellness within the workplace is
incredibly important.
And I think most people would besurprised to hear that most
people, even being in the sameoffice because of the uh
excessive use with technology,actually feel isolated.
Isolated at work, isolated athome.
And so I would encourage all ofus in this room to think about
(22:06):
how can we create ways forpeople to connect at work and
connect more in person, right?
And so opportunities to gathertogether, opportunities to take
lunch together, opportunities toengage in community service
together.
Um, those are certainly thingsthat can improve workplace
wellness, um reduce burnout, um,and think about the other things
(22:28):
that also contribute to that,and including you know
administrative overloads aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (22:33):
And less social media, maybe?
Unless social media.
SPEAKER_03 (22:36):
And I'll say a quick line, something I learned a long
time ago.
I think too often, and we'vetalked about this before, we
treat rest as reward and notrequirement.
Right?
So changing the mindset aboutself-care becomes critical.
You feel like, oh, this is myreward.
No, you can't perform, as Dr.
Hangison, Dr.
Green said, if you feelconstantly under the gun,
(22:59):
constantly under stress.
So we have to get to a pointwhere one, we stop seeing
ourselves as synonymous withwhat we produce.
That's part of the problem,where our productivity is more
important than our well-being.
And so, if that is the mentalityyou have, burnout is going to
happen, and it can happenquietly, and pretty soon it
takes a deteriorating effect onthe work you do.
(23:19):
So I think we have to change thementality around rest, around
self-care.
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
And it has to start with leaders.
Yes.
And I think and I want toemphasize that um, you know, the
three of us have experience incorporate settings talking to
leaders about how do you talkabout burnout.
Um, you know, in the finance,I've been called in to kind of
work with analysts andassociates because they compare
that group to residents, right?
(23:43):
They work these long hours, theyburnt out, uh, they don't have
any power.
But what Pastor Mike is doing,what Dr.
Green is doing through the HopeCenter is as leaders, they are
setting the example of whatcreating wellness in the
workplace looks like.
And without this message comingfrom the top, those who are
(24:03):
lower-level staff have no powerto make that change.
So we would love to connect withyou know leaders here to see how
we can spread this message, butit really must start with the
leaders, you know, in this room.
SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Well, I want to sort of end where we started.
Uh, I want to thank Dr.
Rawl Andrews Jr.
and the American PsychiatricAssociation Foundation for
helping to bring together justan incredibly inspiring panel
here to talk about one of themost important issues facing our
future and future globalleaders, Dr.
(24:36):
Sidney Hengerson, Dr.
Lena Green, and Pastor MikeWalren.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you.
Welcome back to the Idea Gen Global Leadership
Summit.
We have another excitinginterview today.
I'd like to welcome to the stageDr.
Sidney Hengerson, Dr.
Alina Green, and Pastor MikeWalrant.
The Dream Team.
The Dream Team.
(00:34):
The Dream Team.
And so what an incredibleinterview.
We're here live at the Nasdaq.
And what a moment in time.
On the sidelines of the UnitedNations General Assembly, you've
got all the world leaders, roadsare closed, difficult to get
across town, but yet here we aretalking about some incredibly
(00:59):
important issues.
And more so now than ever,right?
This is a moment in time.
And so I'd like to begin byasking um professional journey.
Most people have a story aboutwhat brought them to their
profession or even how theybecame interested in the topic
(01:20):
of mental health.
Mental health, especiallypost-COVID, I mean, we're all
we've all we all went through ittogether.
And mental health now, you know,and and you can talk about the
reasons and the factors aroundit, but mental health, first of
all, folks are more aware ofwhat it is or what it is not.
(01:41):
Um, but also how it's impactingsociety, the global society.
Would you kindly share, whoeverwould like to share this, okay.
Um how you became a clinician oradvocate in the field of mental
health and wellness.
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
Uh yes, well, thank you for that question for having
us today.
I'm gonna be very brief becauseit's a long story how I became
an advocate.
But uh it started for me in2012, and that was the year I
myself started to seek therapy.
The background to that was Ihave an extremely rare disease.
(02:21):
Um I tell people there's 340million people in this country,
and it's only just under 6,000who have this condition.
It's called common variableimmunodeficiency, which means I
was born with no antibodies.
So I don't have a real immunesystem.
So every four weeks I have toget an infusion of synthetic
antibodies.
(02:41):
But over the years, it wasdiagnosed late in life, and over
the years, hospitalized about 25times, survived sepsis three
times, had a massive stroke in2018.
And what was happening in 12 isthat I didn't know what was
really going on, but it was deepdepression and serving as a
pastor at the same time of anextremely large congregation.
(03:04):
And I didn't, I felt like thingswere unraveling, not with work,
fine, but personally, and it wasdue to the sickness, constantly
sick, always going to hospitals.
And so, and this is before theofficial diagnosis took place.
And so I had a staff member whoused to always talk about
therapy, and I asked her oneday, I said, you know, who's
(03:24):
your therapist?
And she told me, I'd never knownabout therapy, never talked
about therapy before withanyone, never crossed my mind,
but I knew something was goingon that was having a tremendous
impact on me mentally andemotionally.
And so I sought out a therapist.
She's still my therapist to thisday, 13 years later, an amazing
human being who I will say savedmy life.
(03:46):
But what I realized is that ifif a therapist was able to do
for me what she did, there arecountless other people who could
benefit.
So in 2012, the same year Istarted therapy, uh, we hired a
therapist on staff at the churchto now offer free mental health
care to the members of thecongregation.
Congregation is about 10,000members, so that one person got
(04:08):
pretty swamped.
And you could imagine, andstarted bringing on interns and
the like.
And fast forward 2016, what Irealized is one day I was in the
lobby of the church, and we sawa young woman who was coming to
see our therapist on staff.
Her name was Joyce, thetherapist's name was Joyce
Johnson.
And the woman came through thefront door as I happened to be
(04:29):
in the lobby, and I saw herwhisper Joyce's name.
It was as if she was ashamed tocome to the church to see the
therapist.
And in that moment, I said, weneed a space completely separate
from the church, so people don'thave to bring that shame in.
And four years later, we wereable to get a space around the
corner from the church.
And so we opened that in 2016,and that uh to this day is doing
(04:53):
amazing work led by Dr.
Green.
What we call the Hope Center,healing on purpose and evolving
for those, and we offered freemental health care to the entire
Harlem community.
And Dr.
Green will talk more about that,but to this day the wait list is
about what now?
Over 250 people on the waitlist.
Uh so we're in the doing greatwork, but it is necessary work.
(05:16):
So I'll I'll pause on that partthere.
SPEAKER_02 (05:18):
That's incredible.
And it located in Harlem.
SPEAKER_03 (05:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
10,000 members.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
That's a lot of members.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
It's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
That's a lot of people.
And two, and did I hearcorrectly?
Did you say 250 people on thewaiting list?
SPEAKER_03 (05:32):
200.
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
To get assistance?
SPEAKER_03 (05:34):
Yeah, but it two things.
One, it shows the incredibleneed.
Yeah.
But also, I think the work we'vedone in the community, we've
helped people, I would say wekind of liberated some people to
feel comfortable with pursuingmental health care.
There's a deep stigma in theAfrican-American community.
And so I think we've been ablein some way in our community to
(05:56):
kind of deal with that stigma.
And we've seen the numbers growover the years.
SPEAKER_02 (06:01):
Yeah, we work closely with the American
Psychiatric AssociationFoundation, Dr.
Roel Andrews Jr., and uh hisleadership has been profound.
Um and and I know enough to bedangerous, but I think the uh
the idea that there's a stigmato destigmatize, um, especially
as we talked about earlier withCOVID and isolation and all the
(06:25):
other things that you read aboutevery single day, and statistics
that I can't even repeat becausethey're so startling, especially
with teenagers and teenage girlsand boys and and and and their
their state um today.
I think what you're doing isprofound, Pastor.
And uh we're grateful to peoplelike you that are truly changing
the world.
SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
It has definitely been a a labor, but a labor of
love in a man.
And I have to often remindpeople we were doing this work
before it became popular to dothis work.
Yeah.
You know, especially post-COVID.
SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
That's an important footnote.
SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
You didn't just show up when you read the head the
headline.
SPEAKER_03 (07:02):
No, and we were prepared in your part.
You know, in that moment that wewere able to offer services so
that when COVID hit and churcheswere shut down, we were able to
transition to doing teletherapyat the Hope Center.
And that made a big, big impact.
But again, we were alreadymoving and doing before things
went kind of haywire in thiscountry with COVID.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
So Yeah, we've had the opportunity to talk to NFL
athletes, for example, that havethat have uh uh uh you know
experienced you know realcrises.
And they're it's startling.
You think you're you're at thetop of your game, you're you're
you're really the pinnacle ofyour career, and yet you can
still have a mental healthcrisis.
Absolutely.
And if you don't have the tools,the coach, the person to talk
(07:43):
to.
That's what I love about the uhAPAF is they talk about you can
talk to anybody.
You talk to your pastor, youdon't have to go to a
psychiatrist, you can go toanybody and and and talk to
them, and and if you needprofessional help, sure, of
course.
Uh but that's what we're talkingabout.
Let's talk a little bit aboutmental health equity.
Um, despite growing awareness,access, and I think you've
(08:03):
pointed that out to quality,mental health care remains
deeply unequal acrosscommunities for various reasons
that we all probably can alludeto.
What are the most criticalsystemic changes needed to
ensure equitable access to care,especially for marginalized
populations?
(08:24):
You have food deserts, you havehealthcare deserts, I'm assuming
you also have, along with that,a mental health care desert.
How do you how do you helppeople?
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Um so just uh to share a little bit about my own
personal background, um I'm adoctor of clinical social work
as well as a psychotherapist,um, and run the community-based
mental health clinic that PastorMike is talking about.
Um, and I would say when wethink about equitable access,
um, there are several thingsthat are important as we think
about access to care, especiallyin marginalized communities.
(08:57):
Um, so the community-basedmental health clinic that we run
is actually free, right?
So financial barriers don't getin the way of people getting
access to care.
Um, on that staff, we have umfaith leaders, we have
psychiatrists, social workers,psychologists, um, we also have
folks who join us from the realmof public health, so that we are
(09:20):
making sure that we're takingcare of the whole person.
Um, I would say, in addition tothat, um we provide flexible
schedules so folks can come fromeight o'clock in the morning to
six o'clock in the evening,including the weekends.
So we're open on Saturdays, andfolks know how to get access to
care.
Um, so we're constantlyproviding messages, um, making
(09:40):
sure that we're working ondestigmatizing, which I'm sure
we'll talk a little bit moreabout later.
Um, and then when we think aboutother areas, right, we think
about making mental health careaccessible beyond the
institutions, right?
So we need hospital-based careservices and um so thinking
about folding mental health careinto primary care, right, so
that folks know that they can uhreceive services for their
(10:02):
mental and physical health inthe same space.
Um, and I think we can alsothink about schools, right?
Um, schools are an important wayto uh think about early
intervention for care, butfolding that right into the
system so that people um canaccess services wherever they
are, specifically our youth aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Incredible.
Thanks for all you're doing.
It sounds you know like you'rereally moving the needle, you
know, and it's so critical tohave that access.
Um we talked a little bit alittle bit about AI.
And um we see all of theseplatforms coming at us, and uh,
we heard about Agentic, we heardabout all these different areas
in AI.
(10:39):
Now, let's talk a little bitabout something really
interesting, which is digitaltherapy and AI.
With the right rise of AI-driventools and these teletherapy
platforms and faith-basedplatforms, we've seen the
commercials, right?
Um it's incredible what's goingon.
And so, how do you seetechnology reshaping potentially
(11:05):
the therapeutic relationship?
And are there concerns that youhave around integrating these
new innovations into care?
And I'll ask um Dr.
Sidney Hankerson that question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Sure.
Uh so first, thank you, George,for providing this platform.
And I I just want to give alittle bit about my background.
Um, so I am um vice chair ofpsychiatry at Mount Sinai Health
System here in New York City.
Um, and in that capacity, uhcharged with really expanding
access to care uh for vulnerablepopulations.
(11:44):
I also do a lot of work withFortune 500 companies who've
seen a rise in challenges andstressors in their workforce,
especially in financialservices.
And I'm also on the NFL'sBehavioral Wellness Committee,
and I'm one of two psychiatristsin the country that is a second
opinion physician for the MBA.
Um, so we want the Knicks to winthis year.
(12:04):
Uh but if any players in theleague have a mental health
challenge, I'm one of twopsychiatrists that will see
that.
So I just want to highlight uhfor those of you who are not
familiar with the black churchtradition, how rare it is for
Pastor Rowland to share hisstory.
The equivalent of that is forall of the 3,000 CEOs that you
(12:25):
interviewed to publicly talkabout seeing a therapist on this
stage.
It's unprecedented.
And it has led to a culturalshift in how people talk about,
think about, and accessservices.
So I share that because I thinkthat when we talk about
(12:46):
technology, I think theimportant thing is how can we
scale, how can we bring to morepeople evidence-based
interventions, especially forpeople across the globe, as
we're thinking about UN Week,who do not have access to
doctors of social work orpsychologists or psychiatrists?
(13:09):
How do we bring to scaleevidence-based interventions in
the far corners of the globe?
Uh, and thinking about countrieslike Africa and India, where
there are literally five or sixpsychiatrists for millions of
people.
I think that is the promise oftechnology is how can we
actually scale and get access topeople across the globe who
(13:31):
otherwise wouldn't get it.
And we've seen an explosion oftechnology-based platforms,
AI-based platforms post-COVIDand certainly with AI.
I think the things that we don'tknow and what we have to study
is how AI could potentially beharmful.
(13:52):
There's been some reports ofyouth in particular talking to
AI platforms as theirtherapists.
There have been reports of youthactually dying by suicide at the
behest of an AI app.
And so I think we are at acritical moment at this
intersection of technology andmental health.
(14:15):
Where we embrace the promise ofincreased access and scale, but
we have to do so in a way thatis ethical, that is rigorous,
and that does not replace thehuman interaction and safeguards
that we know will prevent folksfrom using the technology in a
(14:38):
way that is harmful.
SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
I want to add to that something I guess, and I
and I love what Sydney justsaid, but I want to add to that,
especially for this audience.
We know what technology does andhow it helps advance us
culturally, but the impact onthe young people is is is hard,
and we don't often hearconversations about that.
(15:02):
This is this amazing book byJonathan Haidt called The
Anxious Generation.
And there are four things hekind of highlights that young
people suffer from.
One is uh social deprivation,sleep deprivation, uh attention
fragmentation, and addiction.
That you have young people whoare in the early years of
(15:24):
development are so locked in totheir smartphones and their
tablets and will stay on themall night long and deprive
themselves of sleep.
And I think anyone knows theimportance in the years of
developing the brain, howimportant sleep is.
Social deprivation.
You have young people now whoare awkward in social settings
(15:45):
because their interaction hasbeen through a tablet, through a
phone, and not real engagementwith other human beings.
And that takes a toll.
That leads to this attentionfragmentation.
We all know what that is.
You don't have to be a youngperson to know what that is.
You're doing something, you geta notification on the phone, you
jump here.
You may call it multitasking,but there's no ability to really
focus in and center on what hasto be done.
(16:06):
And then there's the addictionpart that I think many of us,
not just young people, findourselves addicted to the
technology, addicted to thephones.
I have a friend of mine, I'vetold her numerous times, you
need to get off of social media.
You're on too much all day long.
I said, Do you have a job?
And I, but posting, posting,posting frenetically.
And I think that's part of it.
(16:27):
You feel is this fear of missingout, or fear of not being
relevant.
And at the heart of it all, foryoung people, adults, is this
addiction to attention andaddiction, the particular kind
of affirmation that I think canbe problematic, especially as
those who are in their teenyears now develop.
We're gonna see that and feelthat in years to come.
SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
Yeah, and you couple that with isolation from the
COVID and the you know, all ofthat that we all collectively
went through as a planet.
We all remember the moment withBacelli singing in the Duomo.
Right that moment.
SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:58):
I mean, that was as dire as it got.
And um, and here we are dealingwith the aftermath.
Yeah.
And and a lot of what, Pastor,you're describing is it's
startling, and I think, youknow, and I hope that um that
it's being addressed as youmentioned, Dr.
Hankerson, I and and Dr.
(17:19):
Green, you know, it's um it's amoment in time, especially with
global leaders assembled here inNew York, uh, talking about all
of these issues.
When we talk about what are theglobal issues, this is this is
one for our time.
Absolutely.
And and I think school systems,when we're talking about
education, we're talking aboutbeing able to communicate, to be
(17:40):
able to do the basic things.
I like to still use a telephone,remember?
I also use a an a conferenceline, throws people off a little
bit, right?
And so you know, I'm not aLudite, but I but I believe
that, but but it's importantthough that our kids, that this
(18:01):
future generations, as we'regoing in now, we're relying on
them for the future.
And this is what we're talkingabout here.
This is existential.
It's not just like, oh, it's anice to-do, you know, like I I
always thought it was importantthat you teach kids to look
someone in the eye and shaketheir hand, and now you're
talking about the digitalcomponent and it's constant, and
(18:22):
it's algorithms, and it's allthese things.
So I think the fact that we'rehaving this conversation is
positive.
I think, Pastor, thank you foryour courage.
I want to give you a hand here.
Let's let's give uh for yourcourage on behalf of so many of
the 10,000 members that can'tget past that.
A church with 10,000 members,I'm Greek Orthodox.
(18:45):
We have maybe a thousand, youknow, uh in in our churches.
10,000 is is is is you know, mygosh, uh so many people that
you're helping.
Let's talk a little bit aboutburnout.
Burnout in helping professions.
I mean, we all hear abouthealthcare.
We have a lot ofhealthcare-related organizations
here today.
(19:05):
Burnout, let's talk about that.
Who would like to address that?
Doctor?
SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
I mean, sure.
Sure.
So um, you know, burnout hasbecome a big topic uh in the
world, especially among mentalhealth professionals, because we
have uh our caseloads havedoubled, tripled, quadrupled in
many instances uh post-COVID.
Uh, but burnout is is really acondition where you feel
(19:31):
detached from work, um, you arenot as productive, um, and you
feel just complete physicalexhaustion.
And so burnout is one of themajor risk factors for clinical
depression.
And I bring up clinicaldepression because you know, the
World Health Organization, in alandmark study a few years ago,
(19:55):
said that depression is thenumber one cause of disability
in the world.
So more people are suffering inthe world in silence from
depression than any other healthcondition.
And in New York City, depressionis the number one cause of
disability in New York City.
And so uh it's critical forglobal leaders in the workplace
(20:18):
to think about how they arecreating cultures that
facilitate wellness, thatfacilitate access to resources,
um, that allow employees to cometogether.
You know, I think so much ofburnout um happens because we
are on Zoom literally from nineto five, and you don't literally
(20:41):
have time to even go use thebathroom.
Because you got to get off onecall and go to the next.
That's real.
And so I think that as we, youknow, are coming back to a uh a
more kind of hybrid typeenvironment, really um, indeed,
I'll just share this, um,indeed, uh published a survey of
(21:04):
the companies that are are mostknown for promoting wellness.
And over the last um, I think itwas 10 years, they cited these
companies that had employeesthat had a sense of purpose,
that felt like their leaderssupported them to see a
therapist, that created accessto mental health resources,
(21:24):
these companies actually performbetter than the SP 500.
So it's good business to supportemployee mental health and
well-being.
And being able to name andidentify burnout and come up
with tangible strategies to dothat, I think is critical and is
also a competitive advantage inthe marketplace.
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
Yeah, I just want to add to that.
Um, so creating that culturalwellness within the workplace is
incredibly important.
And I think most people would besurprised to hear that most
people, even being in the sameoffice because of the uh
excessive use with technology,actually feel isolated.
Isolated at work, isolated athome.
And so I would encourage all ofus in this room to think about
(22:06):
how can we create ways forpeople to connect at work and
connect more in person, right?
And so opportunities to gathertogether, opportunities to take
lunch together, opportunities toengage in community service
together.
Um, those are certainly thingsthat can improve workplace
wellness, um reduce burnout, um,and think about the other things
(22:28):
that also contribute to that,and including you know
administrative overloads aswell.
SPEAKER_02 (22:33):
And less social media, maybe?
Unless social media.
SPEAKER_03 (22:36):
And I'll say a quick line, something I learned a long
time ago.
I think too often, and we'vetalked about this before, we
treat rest as reward and notrequirement.
Right?
So changing the mindset aboutself-care becomes critical.
You feel like, oh, this is myreward.
No, you can't perform, as Dr.
Hangison, Dr.
Green said, if you feelconstantly under the gun,
(22:59):
constantly under stress.
So we have to get to a pointwhere one, we stop seeing
ourselves as synonymous withwhat we produce.
That's part of the problem,where our productivity is more
important than our well-being.
And so, if that is the mentalityyou have, burnout is going to
happen, and it can happenquietly, and pretty soon it
takes a deteriorating effect onthe work you do.
(23:19):
So I think we have to change thementality around rest, around
self-care.
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
And it has to start with leaders.
Yes.
And I think and I want toemphasize that um, you know, the
three of us have experience incorporate settings talking to
leaders about how do you talkabout burnout.
Um, you know, in the finance,I've been called in to kind of
work with analysts andassociates because they compare
that group to residents, right?
(23:43):
They work these long hours, theyburnt out, uh, they don't have
any power.
But what Pastor Mike is doing,what Dr.
Green is doing through the HopeCenter is as leaders, they are
setting the example of whatcreating wellness in the
workplace looks like.
And without this message comingfrom the top, those who are
(24:03):
lower-level staff have no powerto make that change.
So we would love to connect withyou know leaders here to see how
we can spread this message, butit really must start with the
leaders, you know, in this room.
SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Well, I want to sort of end where we started.
Uh, I want to thank Dr.
Rawl Andrews Jr.
and the American PsychiatricAssociation Foundation for
helping to bring together justan incredibly inspiring panel
here to talk about one of themost important issues facing our
future and future globalleaders, Dr.
(24:36):
Sidney Hengerson, Dr.
Lena Green, and Pastor MikeWalren.
Thank you so very much.
Thank you.
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