October 15, 2025 • 20 mins
A 15-seat burger joint in Soho wasn’t supposed to become a global brand—but it did, thanks to an irresistible product and a story that couldn’t be ignored. In this episode, Julie Mulligan, CEO & Co-Founder of Black Tap Craft Burgers & Beer, sits down with Robert Reiss, Founder & CEO of The CEO Forum, to unpack how an architect’s mindset built a hospitality engine: precise systems, guest-centric design, and a relentless focus on creating “wow” moments. From winning the New York Wine & Food Festival Burger Bash to engineering the now-iconic “Crazy Shakes,” Julie reveals how craft, visuals, and consistency turn a neighborhood idea into a worldwide staple.
We dive into the essentials of a great burger—fat content, searing heat, one flip, never press—and why these rules matter when training teams across time zones. Julie walks through the strategy behind iconic locations like The Venetian, Downtown Disney, and Marina Bay Sands, showing how global stages amplify word of mouth and social proof. She shares candid leadership lessons on scaling a family-sized crew into a dispersed organization, knowing when to zoom in on details and when to let trust compound.
Julie also introduces Black Tap Singles & Doubles, a fast-casual format built for speed and choice, and Tender Crush, a crispy chicken concept with New York attitude. With all three brands launching at JFK Airport, we explore why airports are the ultimate proving grounds for discovery, operations, and brand love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
Without further ado, I'd like to invite up to the
stage Julie Mulligan, CEO andco-founder of Black Tap Craft
Burgers and Beer, a global foodcompany.
Julie, welcome.
And uh a dear friend uh of manyyears now, uh someone who we
actually celebrated his mom'sbirthday in the United Nations.
(00:33):
Who knew, right?
And he's here again, uh the CEOWhisperer, Robert Reest.
Robert, welcome.
Another epic interview.
Another epic interview.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Take it away, Robert.
Okay, thank you, George.
And a pleasure to be here witheveryone, and I see we got a
whole group there, too.
Very, very nice.
So Well, this thing's fallingoff.
So, what I want to tell you isyour infra treat, because if any
does anyone here like food?
Okay.
(01:06):
Does anyone like to hear successstories about something that is
crazy that shouldn't havehappened, but it became
incredible?
Well, here you have the one andonly Julie Mulligan.
So you are going to hear, she isis running as CEO, one of the
fastest growing, most excitingrestaurant chains all around the
(01:29):
world.
About how many countries are youin now?
SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
Oh, I think nine.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
Nine countries.
And some of the places you'relocated.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
We're in the Middle East, in the UAE and Saudi,
we're in Switzerland and the UK,we're in Singapore and Malaysia,
and in a few key cities acrossthe U.S.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
And that's with three separate restaurant
brands.
Now, this is within one decadefrom startup.
And it is one of the mostbeloved restaurants.
I don't know if anyone's beenthere, but I could tell you it
is um it is the single besthamburger I've had in my life.
And I know Paul Newman, he usedto say he used to travel around
(02:10):
the country trying to find agreat hamburger.
And yours, especially, I lovethis mulberry street with what's
in the mulberry street?
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
So it's our nod to New York Italian.
Mulberry Street is the heart ofthat here in New York City.
So it's got prosciutto, soprasate, spicy peppers, and a lot
of cheese.
It's really delicious.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
And they have one of the greatest stories in social
media, which we're going to goto, so you're going to learn how
you go viral in social media aswell.
But let's start off, it's 2014.
You're an architect, right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
That's right, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Nothing to do with restaurants.
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
I never in a million years would have guessed I would
be in restaurants.
My mother, probably even moreso.
She was always uh chef, and justI was always not that interested
in her food, and I think it wasa big surprise.
But my background is inarchitecture and design.
I'm a licensed architect, andone thing led to another where I
(03:10):
got into hospitality when one ofmy big institutional projects
kind of hit a road bump.
There was a big water main breakin New York, and it put us into
what I call insurance purgatory,where for two years we had none
of the excellent people on anyof the teams.
They had all gone to work onother projects, so we still had
(03:31):
to finish it, and everyone wouldtalk about what needed to be
done, and no one would actuallydo it.
So I started doing hospitalityprojects on the side because
they needed to be fast, theyneeded to be fun, they were
interesting, and it was veryrewarding because you actually
got to see how they do.
You got to see them be used, yougot to see people in them.
Was it working?
(03:52):
Was it not working?
Does it hold up over time?
And one thing led to another.
In 2015, uh, Chris and I, myhusband started Black Tap
thinking we just wanted a localneighborhood joint.
He had been in hospitality hiswhole life.
And um, I was just involved todo some design and project
management at the time, and itit really took off.
(04:15):
It became something bigger thanwe ever had expected.
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
And so it was like what yeah, like 15 seats, right?
15 seats.
And describe what the originalconcept, what you were thinking
down in the village, right?
Right here in New York City.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
On Broom Street, Soho, and it was supposed to be
a 15-seat local burger joint.
We thought maybe if it wentwell, you'd have another one in
New York somewhere.
Um, we went on to win our firstyear New York Wine and Food
Festivals Burger Bash with ourGreg Norman or the Champ, which
is a Wagyu burger withbuttermilk, blue cheese, and
(04:51):
arugula, uh, which went on towin three times.
But so that started getting alot more traction.
We invented what we now call thecrazy shake.
So in the beginning, we hadclassic shakes, and um the
environment of our restaurant onBroom Street was so small and
cozy that the general manager, Imean, you could only fit like
(05:12):
three employees in there at atime, so there was one person
running around in the front, oneperson at the bar, one person in
the kitchen, but they really gotto know the community and we're
just really enjoying therelationships and the requests
that people would come in with.
So one thing kind of led toanother, and it was right around
the time when Instagram wasbecoming more popular, was
(05:33):
becoming something people spenda lot of time on, share a lot of
pictures and videos and whatthey're doing with their daily
lives, what they're eating,especially.
And so we really started to beable to reach a much bigger
audience very quickly, eventhough we only had 15 seats at
the time through Instagram andsocial media.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
Okay, so there's two major lessons here for everyone
to learn.
Uh, number one is you have tohave incredible product.
Yeah.
So so you won those awards.
You did something, how did youhave, because you weren't even
into cooking when you'reyounger.
How did you have such greatproduct?
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
So the goal was we've all been to fast food
American burgers, we've seenthem.
We've um, you know, seen some ofthe casual American dining also
not be maybe the quality that itwas or of a quality that people
talk about or impressed by.
And so we felt there was reallyan opportunity to elevate this
(06:30):
American icon and do it in sucha way that, say, you had a
Michelin star chef who was doinga backyard barbecue, what would
they make?
What would they serve that'sthat in-between of we're gonna
do something that we canreplicate, that we can do on a
fast basis, where we can invitepeople and really have a
business, but elevate it fromthat sort of road style fast
(06:52):
food burger.
So that's where it all started,and I think we've stuck to that
over the years.
Ingredients and quality are ournumber one at being a delicious
thing, is you have to have thatto start.
And then I think what's become amore important reality is how it
looks and how shareable it is,and how it can actually kind of
(07:13):
have its own identity whilebeing something that a lot of
people serve and everybody knowsand loves.
SPEAKER_02 (07:19):
So, about hamburgers, I have a question.
So, um, if those who don't knowwhat I do professionally, I
interview CEOs.
So I was interviewing um BillMarriott, and by the way, his
favorite place to go is FiveGuys Burgers and Fries on
Saturday with his wife.
But um but but he told meactually, he said the secret,
(07:41):
you don't push it down and youonly flip it over once.
Is that because is that that istrue?
Yes.
So he's right.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
What's the secret?
So everyone knows, we're I knowwe're in fall now, but the
secret to an amazing hamburger.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
So you start with a great beef and it has to have
enough fat.
This is not the area to skimp onthe fat and the burger.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
You want more fat.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
Because you want it to sear on the outside and you
want it to have a great flavor.
Um, you don't want to overpackthe patty, you want to leave a
little bit of air in there, andyou want to make sure your grill
is hot enough that you can get areally good sear.
You only want to flip it oncebecause you want that
caramelization to happen on bothsides, and you don't want to
(08:23):
push it down because that getsrid of all the juices that you
want to be eating when youactually go to take a bite of
the burger.
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
There you go.
So now thank you.
So everyone knows now, right?
Look what you learned.
You're learning more important.
Don't push it down.
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
Don't push it down, let it be seasoned both sides.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
You could do any.
How do you figure out, likeyou've all this innovation?
We're not even up to, they havetwo more major restaurant
chains, sing singles anddoubles, and you know, so we'll
talk about that also.
Yeah.
But this is a big thing.
How do you determine theinnovation of what style you're
gonna use?
Like use the blue cheese and youknow, arugular or something.
(09:04):
How do you know what's gonnareally work?
SPEAKER_00 (09:06):
Well, you don't always know what's gonna work
because it's a combination of ithas to be delicious, but it also
has to resonate and connect withpeople.
So, what's interesting about theGreg Norman or the Champ, which
features the blue cheese that Italked about, we went on to win
New York Wine and Food with thatthree times.
It's a delicious burger, but noteverybody loves blue cheese.
(09:28):
Blue cheese is kind ofcontroversial.
So getting people to try thatburger where they don't
necessarily have to order thatburger was really important and
strategic for us becauseeverybody loves it when they try
it, but not everybody loves bluecheese.
And it was the same when westarted opening in restaurants
overseas, a lot of people alsonot big fans of blue cheese.
(09:51):
So getting out there and beingable to present it for people to
try and get some of thatfeedback going helped kind of
pave the way for more people tocome and try it because someone
they knew or someone they lookat recommended it and thought it
was great.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
Okay, we spent a lot of time on product, but now
let's talk social media andmajor expansion.
So the key with social media,you got on Instagram and you
have to describe what the shakeslook like.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
So they're over the top.
SPEAKER_02 (10:22):
They're like big.
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
We decided we did not want to limit ourselves to
being in the glass, so we rimmedthe glass with frosting and all
kinds of toppings, and we builtit up high.
So we run contests with our teamin the restaurants where they
practice their whipped creampyramids.
If you're really good, you cantake it and put it on a plate
and turn it over and it willstay.
(10:45):
That's when you know you haveskills.
Uh but anyway, we we made themthese kind of architectural
over-the-top things that peoplehadn't seen before.
So when you see them, if youhave seen them online, it's
still very exciting.
And what's so cool is all theseyears later, I still go into the
restaurant, and when one iscoming across the restaurant
floor and being brought to yourtable, I still say wow.
(11:07):
And people who have been anumber of times still say wow.
And so there's something aboutkind of bringing that magic of
something that you're probablynot gonna make at home,
something that isn't going to bequite the same wherever you go.
We take it seriously, and andnobody else really does that.
So it makes it a really specialexperience every time.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
And you know, when I heard about it, I was invited to
go as a media guy to see what itwas like.
My daughter, 20, 23 years old atthe time, she said, Dad, that is
the hottest place in New York.
And she said, and she startedshowing all these Instagrams to
me, and I'm like, wow, she said,I have to have those shakes.
So you gotta, you gotta make itspecial and different.
(11:49):
Now, talk about so you you havethis big success and you're
winning all the awards, and hereyou are still an architect at
heart.
So you're trying it's all, Idon't know how the skills
transfer or not.
What was the secret with how didyou know we're going into Dubai,
we're going into Las Vegas,we're going into Tokyo?
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
Well, there's a lot of burger restaurants in this
country, particularly, but alsoaround the world.
For better or worse, McDonald'shas really paved the way for
every burger to follow on aworldwide scale after.
Um, but I think we thought it'sa crowded market.
Is it something that makes sensefor us to expand and why?
And so we sought out iconiclocations in iconic cities
(12:34):
around the world.
We've opened at the Venetian inLas Vegas, we've opened at
Downtown Disneyland in Anaheim,we've opened at the Marina Bay
Sands in Singapore, and so doingsome of these locations, I
think, has really given us aplatform to stand on, a way of
growing sustainably in a waythat otherwise might not be so
sustainable because you arespreading yourself across time
(12:55):
zones and cities that are notvery close together and very far
apart.
But it's given us an amazingplace where, you know, in
Singapore, sometimes we'll saywe're the New York embassy of
sorts, because it's given acommunity for people who are
from the US to come and enjoy ataste of home, people who are
not, who maybe will never go, anability to come and feel like
(13:18):
they're traveling to New York orto the U.S.
without actually having to geton that 18-hour plane ride.
SPEAKER_02 (13:25):
So now let's shift to leadership.
We heard from Peter Cunio aboutnumber 18 is the key and
courage.
Here you went, and your leader,and by the way, now she has a
beautiful one-year-old babyRiley, has an older daughter, I
think about 17 years old, and isgrowing this massive
(13:45):
organization as CEO and reallybeing an architect at trade, not
even in this industry.
What is the secret to whatyou've learned about leadership?
SPEAKER_00 (13:58):
So I think that when we started, we were a really
small team, and it's reallyalways had a little bit of a
family feel to it.
And so when I say that, I thinkthe key things that are
important have been important toour growth are allowing people
to really be themselves, to findtheir strengths in order to stay
(14:21):
with you and grow with you, andbuilding around those people
that you have, but also thatform of communication, which may
not be always the mostprofessional, but is always full
of flavor.
But having a team that you trustand having people around you
that you trust is reallycritical because you can't go
and do all these things withoutrelying on people to do their
(14:42):
part.
So I think as we've grown,holding on to that has been
really important.
Um, being an architect, uh, it'sinteresting.
In some ways, it's it's verysimilar, in other ways,
obviously quite different.
But there's times when attentionto detail is really critical and
being really focused on thenuances of things.
(15:05):
I think also there are timeswhen being a lot more macro and
stepping back and looking atthings is really important.
So I think that's true withinboth industries, and I think
you've always got to bebalancing how much time you
spend kind of with those lensesto make sure you're really
moving things forward in a waythat holistically is, you know,
taking the boat in the rightdirection.
SPEAKER_02 (15:27):
Has your leadership changed, Annie, since 2015 when
you were CEO of a small companyand now you're CEO of a large
company?
So you don't necessarily get toknow everyone as well, and also
you're dispersed around theworld.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Yeah, I like to be hands-on, and so as we've grown,
learning to figure out the rightbalance of how I can be hands-on
and how I can't be has been abig learning experience for me.
But it happened, you know, a lotof times you'll say, Oh, I
started uh in in the dish pitand worked my way up.
(16:05):
For me, I started on the designand uh project management side,
which very easily bled intoeverything that goes into
opening a restaurant, anythingpre-opening, up through the
opening.
And then it took a turn of,okay, now I'm involved in the
things after to make sure thatthose are going well too.
And so I did have that kind oforganic journey of being able to
(16:27):
touch different parts and takeon different pieces over time.
Um, and then it was really, youknow, when COVID happened, our
team shrunk a little bit.
I really started having to wearall the hats in some way.
Um, and then since it's beentrying to give back some of
those hats as we grow and moveon in time.
SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
So, with all of this, what was the biggest
challenge that you ever had toovercome?
And I know we had COVID, so Idon't want to do COVID.
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
Yeah, we've ever we've all talked about that
enough.
Um I think learning to bring thesame experience to different
places, and so we're gonna beable to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
Talk about your two new restaurants that are coming
in, also.
SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
Yeah, we learned from growing black tap, craft
burgers and beer, um, which wenever designed or intended to be
growing, as I mentioned, to allof the places that it's gone.
We we learned from that thatthere was a lot of things that
we could do to deliver theexperience in a way that we
could reach more people and in away that we could potentially
(17:35):
reach them in a more impactfulway.
So Black Tap Singles and Doublesis a fast casual version of what
we do with Black Tap KraftBurgers and beer.
And in a lot of ways, we sayit's actually offering greater
hospitality because instead ofbeing so committed to the
typical routine of full servicedining, you can cater to a more
(17:55):
wide range of what people arelooking for.
People can grab it and go, it'sfaster, it's a little bit
easier, you can eat what youwant and spend what you want
because the menu's a la carte,it's not bundled, so you have
more control over how muchyou're eating and spending.
And you can control if you'restaying with us.
Do you want to be there for aquick lunch?
Do you want to hang out forthree hours with your friends as
(18:16):
if you were at a bar?
It becomes a little bit more ofa place that you can make work
for you within whatever kind ofmoment you're searching for in
your life.
So within Singles and Doubles,um, Tender Crush was our fast
casual chicken concept where weare trying to make New York City
crispy chicken a thing.
And um it came out of peoplelove the chicken at Black Tap.
(18:39):
And as we've introduced thatover the years, it's been one of
our top five sellers in thesandwiches.
We knew it was a big success.
We knew that people were lookingfor it, and so we brought
together, like we do at BlackTap, a bit of New York and a bit
of that, you know, craft casualand made it into something
that's now a whole life of itsown.
(19:01):
And um, we're opening all threeof these at JFK this December,
around the end of the year.
So we're very excited because asa nice balance to social media,
we get to see people there, butthen we will also get to see a
lot of people in real life andhave a lot of people walking by
and become familiar with thebrands.
SPEAKER_02 (19:18):
I'm we're having a lot of fun learning a lot, but I
just saw the wrap-up.
So um you'll have to ask herseparately how you match a beer
with a burger.
But tell us what is your visionfor the future, because now
you're a CEO.
Where are you gonna go?
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
So with both Black Tep Singles and Doubles and
Tender Crush, we've spent a lotof time making all of the
putting all the pieces in theplace, making the kit of parts
where we can really expand to amuch wider audience, where you
don't need as much volume andyou can be in locations that are
a lot more flexible.
So we'll be opening some of thefirst ones later this year, and
(19:57):
we're very excited that thosevehicles can help us grow to
reach a much wider audience overthe next few years.
So I hope you all get to comeand try at some point.
It's delicious, I promise.
SPEAKER_02 (20:07):
There you have it.
And remember, social media,Instagram, take the photos.
You get all the celebrities,people love it.
Way to go.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Okay.
Without further ado, I'd like to invite up to the
stage Julie Mulligan, CEO andco-founder of Black Tap Craft
Burgers and Beer, a global foodcompany.
Julie, welcome.
And uh a dear friend uh of manyyears now, uh someone who we
actually celebrated his mom'sbirthday in the United Nations.
(00:33):
Who knew, right?
And he's here again, uh the CEOWhisperer, Robert Reest.
Robert, welcome.
Another epic interview.
Another epic interview.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Take it away, Robert.
Okay, thank you, George.
And a pleasure to be here witheveryone, and I see we got a
whole group there, too.
Very, very nice.
So Well, this thing's fallingoff.
So, what I want to tell you isyour infra treat, because if any
does anyone here like food?
Okay.
(01:06):
Does anyone like to hear successstories about something that is
crazy that shouldn't havehappened, but it became
incredible?
Well, here you have the one andonly Julie Mulligan.
So you are going to hear, she isis running as CEO, one of the
fastest growing, most excitingrestaurant chains all around the
(01:29):
world.
About how many countries are youin now?
SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
Oh, I think nine.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
Nine countries.
And some of the places you'relocated.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
We're in the Middle East, in the UAE and Saudi,
we're in Switzerland and the UK,we're in Singapore and Malaysia,
and in a few key cities acrossthe U.S.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
And that's with three separate restaurant
brands.
Now, this is within one decadefrom startup.
And it is one of the mostbeloved restaurants.
I don't know if anyone's beenthere, but I could tell you it
is um it is the single besthamburger I've had in my life.
And I know Paul Newman, he usedto say he used to travel around
(02:10):
the country trying to find agreat hamburger.
And yours, especially, I lovethis mulberry street with what's
in the mulberry street?
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
So it's our nod to New York Italian.
Mulberry Street is the heart ofthat here in New York City.
So it's got prosciutto, soprasate, spicy peppers, and a lot
of cheese.
It's really delicious.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
And they have one of the greatest stories in social
media, which we're going to goto, so you're going to learn how
you go viral in social media aswell.
But let's start off, it's 2014.
You're an architect, right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
That's right, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
Nothing to do with restaurants.
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
I never in a million years would have guessed I would
be in restaurants.
My mother, probably even moreso.
She was always uh chef, and justI was always not that interested
in her food, and I think it wasa big surprise.
But my background is inarchitecture and design.
I'm a licensed architect, andone thing led to another where I
(03:10):
got into hospitality when one ofmy big institutional projects
kind of hit a road bump.
There was a big water main breakin New York, and it put us into
what I call insurance purgatory,where for two years we had none
of the excellent people on anyof the teams.
They had all gone to work onother projects, so we still had
(03:31):
to finish it, and everyone wouldtalk about what needed to be
done, and no one would actuallydo it.
So I started doing hospitalityprojects on the side because
they needed to be fast, theyneeded to be fun, they were
interesting, and it was veryrewarding because you actually
got to see how they do.
You got to see them be used, yougot to see people in them.
Was it working?
(03:52):
Was it not working?
Does it hold up over time?
And one thing led to another.
In 2015, uh, Chris and I, myhusband started Black Tap
thinking we just wanted a localneighborhood joint.
He had been in hospitality hiswhole life.
And um, I was just involved todo some design and project
management at the time, and itit really took off.
(04:15):
It became something bigger thanwe ever had expected.
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
And so it was like what yeah, like 15 seats, right?
15 seats.
And describe what the originalconcept, what you were thinking
down in the village, right?
Right here in New York City.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
On Broom Street, Soho, and it was supposed to be
a 15-seat local burger joint.
We thought maybe if it wentwell, you'd have another one in
New York somewhere.
Um, we went on to win our firstyear New York Wine and Food
Festivals Burger Bash with ourGreg Norman or the Champ, which
is a Wagyu burger withbuttermilk, blue cheese, and
(04:51):
arugula, uh, which went on towin three times.
But so that started getting alot more traction.
We invented what we now call thecrazy shake.
So in the beginning, we hadclassic shakes, and um the
environment of our restaurant onBroom Street was so small and
cozy that the general manager, Imean, you could only fit like
(05:12):
three employees in there at atime, so there was one person
running around in the front, oneperson at the bar, one person in
the kitchen, but they really gotto know the community and we're
just really enjoying therelationships and the requests
that people would come in with.
So one thing kind of led toanother, and it was right around
the time when Instagram wasbecoming more popular, was
(05:33):
becoming something people spenda lot of time on, share a lot of
pictures and videos and whatthey're doing with their daily
lives, what they're eating,especially.
And so we really started to beable to reach a much bigger
audience very quickly, eventhough we only had 15 seats at
the time through Instagram andsocial media.
SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
Okay, so there's two major lessons here for everyone
to learn.
Uh, number one is you have tohave incredible product.
Yeah.
So so you won those awards.
You did something, how did youhave, because you weren't even
into cooking when you'reyounger.
How did you have such greatproduct?
SPEAKER_00 (06:09):
So the goal was we've all been to fast food
American burgers, we've seenthem.
We've um, you know, seen some ofthe casual American dining also
not be maybe the quality that itwas or of a quality that people
talk about or impressed by.
And so we felt there was reallyan opportunity to elevate this
(06:30):
American icon and do it in sucha way that, say, you had a
Michelin star chef who was doinga backyard barbecue, what would
they make?
What would they serve that'sthat in-between of we're gonna
do something that we canreplicate, that we can do on a
fast basis, where we can invitepeople and really have a
business, but elevate it fromthat sort of road style fast
(06:52):
food burger.
So that's where it all started,and I think we've stuck to that
over the years.
Ingredients and quality are ournumber one at being a delicious
thing, is you have to have thatto start.
And then I think what's become amore important reality is how it
looks and how shareable it is,and how it can actually kind of
(07:13):
have its own identity whilebeing something that a lot of
people serve and everybody knowsand loves.
SPEAKER_02 (07:19):
So, about hamburgers, I have a question.
So, um, if those who don't knowwhat I do professionally, I
interview CEOs.
So I was interviewing um BillMarriott, and by the way, his
favorite place to go is FiveGuys Burgers and Fries on
Saturday with his wife.
But um but but he told meactually, he said the secret,
(07:41):
you don't push it down and youonly flip it over once.
Is that because is that that istrue?
Yes.
So he's right.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
What's the secret?
So everyone knows, we're I knowwe're in fall now, but the
secret to an amazing hamburger.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
So you start with a great beef and it has to have
enough fat.
This is not the area to skimp onthe fat and the burger.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
You want more fat.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
Because you want it to sear on the outside and you
want it to have a great flavor.
Um, you don't want to overpackthe patty, you want to leave a
little bit of air in there, andyou want to make sure your grill
is hot enough that you can get areally good sear.
You only want to flip it oncebecause you want that
caramelization to happen on bothsides, and you don't want to
(08:23):
push it down because that getsrid of all the juices that you
want to be eating when youactually go to take a bite of
the burger.
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
There you go.
So now thank you.
So everyone knows now, right?
Look what you learned.
You're learning more important.
Don't push it down.
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
Don't push it down, let it be seasoned both sides.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
You could do any.
How do you figure out, likeyou've all this innovation?
We're not even up to, they havetwo more major restaurant
chains, sing singles anddoubles, and you know, so we'll
talk about that also.
Yeah.
But this is a big thing.
How do you determine theinnovation of what style you're
gonna use?
Like use the blue cheese and youknow, arugular or something.
(09:04):
How do you know what's gonnareally work?
SPEAKER_00 (09:06):
Well, you don't always know what's gonna work
because it's a combination of ithas to be delicious, but it also
has to resonate and connect withpeople.
So, what's interesting about theGreg Norman or the Champ, which
features the blue cheese that Italked about, we went on to win
New York Wine and Food with thatthree times.
It's a delicious burger, but noteverybody loves blue cheese.
(09:28):
Blue cheese is kind ofcontroversial.
So getting people to try thatburger where they don't
necessarily have to order thatburger was really important and
strategic for us becauseeverybody loves it when they try
it, but not everybody loves bluecheese.
And it was the same when westarted opening in restaurants
overseas, a lot of people alsonot big fans of blue cheese.
(09:51):
So getting out there and beingable to present it for people to
try and get some of thatfeedback going helped kind of
pave the way for more people tocome and try it because someone
they knew or someone they lookat recommended it and thought it
was great.
SPEAKER_02 (10:06):
Okay, we spent a lot of time on product, but now
let's talk social media andmajor expansion.
So the key with social media,you got on Instagram and you
have to describe what the shakeslook like.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
So they're over the top.
SPEAKER_02 (10:22):
They're like big.
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
We decided we did not want to limit ourselves to
being in the glass, so we rimmedthe glass with frosting and all
kinds of toppings, and we builtit up high.
So we run contests with our teamin the restaurants where they
practice their whipped creampyramids.
If you're really good, you cantake it and put it on a plate
and turn it over and it willstay.
(10:45):
That's when you know you haveskills.
Uh but anyway, we we made themthese kind of architectural
over-the-top things that peoplehadn't seen before.
So when you see them, if youhave seen them online, it's
still very exciting.
And what's so cool is all theseyears later, I still go into the
restaurant, and when one iscoming across the restaurant
floor and being brought to yourtable, I still say wow.
(11:07):
And people who have been anumber of times still say wow.
And so there's something aboutkind of bringing that magic of
something that you're probablynot gonna make at home,
something that isn't going to bequite the same wherever you go.
We take it seriously, and andnobody else really does that.
So it makes it a really specialexperience every time.
SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
And you know, when I heard about it, I was invited to
go as a media guy to see what itwas like.
My daughter, 20, 23 years old atthe time, she said, Dad, that is
the hottest place in New York.
And she said, and she startedshowing all these Instagrams to
me, and I'm like, wow, she said,I have to have those shakes.
So you gotta, you gotta make itspecial and different.
(11:49):
Now, talk about so you you havethis big success and you're
winning all the awards, and hereyou are still an architect at
heart.
So you're trying it's all, Idon't know how the skills
transfer or not.
What was the secret with how didyou know we're going into Dubai,
we're going into Las Vegas,we're going into Tokyo?
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
Well, there's a lot of burger restaurants in this
country, particularly, but alsoaround the world.
For better or worse, McDonald'shas really paved the way for
every burger to follow on aworldwide scale after.
Um, but I think we thought it'sa crowded market.
Is it something that makes sensefor us to expand and why?
And so we sought out iconiclocations in iconic cities
(12:34):
around the world.
We've opened at the Venetian inLas Vegas, we've opened at
Downtown Disneyland in Anaheim,we've opened at the Marina Bay
Sands in Singapore, and so doingsome of these locations, I
think, has really given us aplatform to stand on, a way of
growing sustainably in a waythat otherwise might not be so
sustainable because you arespreading yourself across time
(12:55):
zones and cities that are notvery close together and very far
apart.
But it's given us an amazingplace where, you know, in
Singapore, sometimes we'll saywe're the New York embassy of
sorts, because it's given acommunity for people who are
from the US to come and enjoy ataste of home, people who are
not, who maybe will never go, anability to come and feel like
(13:18):
they're traveling to New York orto the U.S.
without actually having to geton that 18-hour plane ride.
SPEAKER_02 (13:25):
So now let's shift to leadership.
We heard from Peter Cunio aboutnumber 18 is the key and
courage.
Here you went, and your leader,and by the way, now she has a
beautiful one-year-old babyRiley, has an older daughter, I
think about 17 years old, and isgrowing this massive
(13:45):
organization as CEO and reallybeing an architect at trade, not
even in this industry.
What is the secret to whatyou've learned about leadership?
SPEAKER_00 (13:58):
So I think that when we started, we were a really
small team, and it's reallyalways had a little bit of a
family feel to it.
And so when I say that, I thinkthe key things that are
important have been important toour growth are allowing people
to really be themselves, to findtheir strengths in order to stay
(14:21):
with you and grow with you, andbuilding around those people
that you have, but also thatform of communication, which may
not be always the mostprofessional, but is always full
of flavor.
But having a team that you trustand having people around you
that you trust is reallycritical because you can't go
and do all these things withoutrelying on people to do their
(14:42):
part.
So I think as we've grown,holding on to that has been
really important.
Um, being an architect, uh, it'sinteresting.
In some ways, it's it's verysimilar, in other ways,
obviously quite different.
But there's times when attentionto detail is really critical and
being really focused on thenuances of things.
(15:05):
I think also there are timeswhen being a lot more macro and
stepping back and looking atthings is really important.
So I think that's true withinboth industries, and I think
you've always got to bebalancing how much time you
spend kind of with those lensesto make sure you're really
moving things forward in a waythat holistically is, you know,
taking the boat in the rightdirection.
SPEAKER_02 (15:27):
Has your leadership changed, Annie, since 2015 when
you were CEO of a small companyand now you're CEO of a large
company?
So you don't necessarily get toknow everyone as well, and also
you're dispersed around theworld.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Yeah, I like to be hands-on, and so as we've grown,
learning to figure out the rightbalance of how I can be hands-on
and how I can't be has been abig learning experience for me.
But it happened, you know, a lotof times you'll say, Oh, I
started uh in in the dish pitand worked my way up.
(16:05):
For me, I started on the designand uh project management side,
which very easily bled intoeverything that goes into
opening a restaurant, anythingpre-opening, up through the
opening.
And then it took a turn of,okay, now I'm involved in the
things after to make sure thatthose are going well too.
And so I did have that kind oforganic journey of being able to
(16:27):
touch different parts and takeon different pieces over time.
Um, and then it was really, youknow, when COVID happened, our
team shrunk a little bit.
I really started having to wearall the hats in some way.
Um, and then since it's beentrying to give back some of
those hats as we grow and moveon in time.
SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
So, with all of this, what was the biggest
challenge that you ever had toovercome?
And I know we had COVID, so Idon't want to do COVID.
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
Yeah, we've ever we've all talked about that
enough.
Um I think learning to bring thesame experience to different
places, and so we're gonna beable to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
Talk about your two new restaurants that are coming
in, also.
SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
Yeah, we learned from growing black tap, craft
burgers and beer, um, which wenever designed or intended to be
growing, as I mentioned, to allof the places that it's gone.
We we learned from that thatthere was a lot of things that
we could do to deliver theexperience in a way that we
could reach more people and in away that we could potentially
(17:35):
reach them in a more impactfulway.
So Black Tap Singles and Doublesis a fast casual version of what
we do with Black Tap KraftBurgers and beer.
And in a lot of ways, we sayit's actually offering greater
hospitality because instead ofbeing so committed to the
typical routine of full servicedining, you can cater to a more
(17:55):
wide range of what people arelooking for.
People can grab it and go, it'sfaster, it's a little bit
easier, you can eat what youwant and spend what you want
because the menu's a la carte,it's not bundled, so you have
more control over how muchyou're eating and spending.
And you can control if you'restaying with us.
Do you want to be there for aquick lunch?
Do you want to hang out forthree hours with your friends as
(18:16):
if you were at a bar?
It becomes a little bit more ofa place that you can make work
for you within whatever kind ofmoment you're searching for in
your life.
So within Singles and Doubles,um, Tender Crush was our fast
casual chicken concept where weare trying to make New York City
crispy chicken a thing.
And um it came out of peoplelove the chicken at Black Tap.
(18:39):
And as we've introduced thatover the years, it's been one of
our top five sellers in thesandwiches.
We knew it was a big success.
We knew that people were lookingfor it, and so we brought
together, like we do at BlackTap, a bit of New York and a bit
of that, you know, craft casualand made it into something
that's now a whole life of itsown.
(19:01):
And um, we're opening all threeof these at JFK this December,
around the end of the year.
So we're very excited because asa nice balance to social media,
we get to see people there, butthen we will also get to see a
lot of people in real life andhave a lot of people walking by
and become familiar with thebrands.
SPEAKER_02 (19:18):
I'm we're having a lot of fun learning a lot, but I
just saw the wrap-up.
So um you'll have to ask herseparately how you match a beer
with a burger.
But tell us what is your visionfor the future, because now
you're a CEO.
Where are you gonna go?
SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
So with both Black Tep Singles and Doubles and
Tender Crush, we've spent a lotof time making all of the
putting all the pieces in theplace, making the kit of parts
where we can really expand to amuch wider audience, where you
don't need as much volume andyou can be in locations that are
a lot more flexible.
So we'll be opening some of thefirst ones later this year, and
(19:57):
we're very excited that thosevehicles can help us grow to
reach a much wider audience overthe next few years.
So I hope you all get to comeand try at some point.
It's delicious, I promise.
SPEAKER_02 (20:07):
There you have it.
And remember, social media,Instagram, take the photos.
You get all the celebrities,people love it.
Way to go.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Okay.
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