May 2, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the key to transforming communities isn’t money, resources, or even a buttoned-up theology—but something far more foundational?
In this special episode, we’re giving you a taste of the kind of teaching you’ll experience at the upcoming DNA Forum this August in Panama City, Panama. Join us as we revisit a compelling keynote from our last Forum, delivered by one of DNA’s most influential trainers, Arturo Cuba.
Drawing from over two decades of grassroots discipleship in rural Latin America, Cuba challenges conventional evangelical thinking with bold clarity: “People do not live out of theologies. People live out of the things that make sense in their lives.” His message unpacks how biblical principles—taught as life-shaping truths rather than abstract theology—have the power to bring deep, lasting change.
Want more of this kind of insight? You don't want to miss the 2025 DNA Forum happening August 4–8 in Panama City, Panama. Our theme: The Essential Role of the Local Church in Discipling Nations.
- DNA Forum 2025—This is an invitation-only event. Learn more or request an invitation at disciplenations.org/forum2025.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Luke Allen (00:03):
Hi friends, welcome, or welcome back to.
Ideas have Consequences.
This is the podcast of theDisciple Nations Alliance.
Thank you so much for joiningus for this special episode.
Why is it special?
Well, because we are lookingahead at a big event coming up
on our calendar the DNA Forum,which is happening this summer
from August 4th through 8th inbeautiful Panama City, panama.
(00:27):
The DNA Forum is always ameaningful time for our global
family of Kingdomizers, trainersand practitioners to gather for
worship, fellowship andlearning.
This year's particular theme isthe essential role of the local
church in discipling nations.
We're incredibly excited forthis event and we hope to see as
many of you there as we can.
(00:47):
Now a quick note this is aninvitation-only event, primarily
due to the resource limitationsat the venue.
So if you're a DNA Kingdomizerand received an invitation in
your inbox recently, please makesure to register soon.
Registration costs will beincreasing after June 1st and
we'd love to get an accuratehead count soon.
If you've already registered,then amazing.
(01:08):
We can't wait to see you downthere in Panama Now.
If you did not receive aninvitation, don't worry, it
might just mean that we do nothave your contact info yet.
So if you are new to thismovement.
If you're a regular listener tothis podcast, if you've read
one or two of our books and ifyou've taken one of our courses,
such as the Kingdomizer 101course, and you're applying
(01:29):
these principles that you'relearning into your life, then we
would love to connect with you.
And if who I'm describingsounds like you, then you can
request an invitation to theforum by going over to our
signup page on our website,which is disciplenationsorg
backslash form 2025.
Again, that'sdisciplenationsorg backslash
(01:49):
form 2025, or you can follow thelink in the show notes and on
that page you will seeinformation about how you can
request an invitation to theform.
All right, this episode is alsospecial because it falls
outside of our normal weeklyschedule, and we did this
because we wanted to give you alittle taste of what our forms
look like.
So today we are going to besharing one of our favorite
(02:09):
teachings from our form threeyears ago in Ethiopia.
The keynote speaker at thatform was Arturo Cuba, one of the
DNA's earliest and mostinfluential trainers and,
personally, one of my absolutefavorites.
Arturo is from Bolivia and hasspent over 20 years creatively
discipling people with abiblical worldview, especially
(02:30):
in rural tribes across LatinAmerica.
His unique outside-of-the-boxapproach to teaching biblical
truths is always inspiring,convicting and challenging in
all the best ways.
What you're about to hear ishis opening talk from the
Ethiopia Forum.
I personally found it deeplythought-provoking and edifying,
and I hope you will too.
(02:50):
So, without further ado, here'sArturo Kuba.
Arturo Cuba (02:57):
Good morning, buenos dias.
That's in the heavenly languageyou might understand.
I will share a little bit of mystory.
Not much, because there aremany things I want to share with
(03:17):
you, but first of all I willmake a disclaimer, disclaiming,
disclaim.
Ok, I will make this claim,this claim, this claim.
Okay, my life passion is toteach about biblical principles,
those I have learned in thisministry of community
development.
I don't know anything aboutprinciples for politics, for
(03:40):
economics, for business, forleadership, so please don't
think I am an expert in thosethings.
Okay, I have had troubles inthe past because people think
about me more than they should.
Okay, my experience is withvery poor communities, people
with almost no education, okay,people in very hard situations,
(04:04):
situations most of thembelievers, and and I think is
that they are the best peoplefor for teaching.
When I work with them, god didgreat things and I say, wow, if
this happened with you know,illiterate and poor people.
(04:27):
If I go back to my country andI talk to my people who are more
educated, university people, itwould be much better.
You know, wrong, you know,trust me, I mean, it doesn't
work with the smart people.
Okay, smart people have manythings in their heads and it's
(04:52):
like the parable, when the Lordsays that the farmer is throwing
the seed and there are birdswaiting for the seed.
Okay, that's smart people.
They have too many problems,they have too many things.
They have too many things.
They hear you and say, oh,there must be something better,
let's go to the next seminaryand things like that.
But poor people, simple people,desperate people, they are
(05:16):
looking for God in some ways andthey open their eyes and their
ears and that's a greatopportunity for someone who
wants to work with them.
That happened to me.
I didn't expect that, but theLord guided me to do that.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
(05:36):
I'm sorry my computer is nothere and somebody's going to
bring a computer, but I tried tofollow the line I try to
remember.
The next thing is that biblicalprinciples.
I remember when I heard Darrellthe first time.
Darrell is an incredible guy.
I mean God changed my life whenI met him and he changed it
(06:01):
dramatically.
But hearing about biblicalworldview was a too Western
message in the voice of Darrelland very beautiful ideas, very
nice things, new things, buthard to share with poor people,
(06:21):
with Latin Americans, probablywith Africans the same thing,
because we live in a differentcontext and how to translate
those ideas.
It was very difficult inGuatemala.
I was living in Guatemala atthat time, so we spent a lot of
a long time trying to do it.
But it was frustrating becausepeople didn't understand what a
(06:44):
worldview is, you know, and andit was very difficult, and
Guatemalans have a very funnyway of doing things when they
don't understand something, theybegin to make jokes about that.
Yeah, so when, when I saw that,I said let's stop this, let's
(07:09):
not talk about biblicalworldview anymore.
So I was checking all thereading material that Daryl used
to send us and I foundsomething very interesting.
I found a Bible study, and weevangelicals love Bible studies.
He says the development ethicBible study.
(07:30):
I said development ethic.
I was very evangelical at thattime, you know.
So it sounded very hard for mewhat is development ethic?
But little by little it came inplace.
But you know, if you read hisbook Discipling Nations, the
book is made out of thatcurricula and if you see he's
(07:55):
following those lines and theyhave funny names for an
evangelical mind, principlesthat are named, for instance,
man have dominion over nature orthe universe is a rational
order, and I say, wow, thesewords are too big.
I had a bunch of farmers whonever went to school, so how to
(08:21):
do this?
But it was very simple and thenice thing is that when I
started using it it was like anelectrical effect.
Everybody just got shocked withthose ideas.
This Bible, bible study, beganto work, and work fine.
So I reviewed the whole thingand I said, well, this is a gold
(08:44):
mine for this business.
If I can see how to use it, howto manage this, I think it can
produce something nice.
I have worked with this idea ofbiblical principles for many,
many years and I have found manyinteresting things, many, many
interesting things, manyinteresting things.
(09:08):
Okay, many, many interestingthings.
And I will try to use one ofthese lessons as if you were the
people who are, you know, mystudents or or the people I want
to share these ideas you know,as a practical thing so you can
see how it works, and at thesame time, I will try to share
with you some important ideasabout this.
(09:30):
Okay, the first thing, I willmake a kind of introduction
Principles although we call thembiblical principles, we have to
think of them as philosophicalconcepts, not theological
conceptsical.
I mean what I'm trying to saywith this.
What I'm trying to say is thatthose principles are not
(09:54):
designed to teach you aparticular doctrine or
particular theology.
Those principles try to answeror to respond your needs in life
.
Try to respond importantquestions of life.
(10:15):
That's what philosophy does.
That's why it's philosophic andit's going to help you to think
out of the box.
You know, I believe, that mostChristian believers, evangelical
believers, have a big problem.
They are all packed in the samebox and that box is their
(10:39):
theology.
Like yesterday, our brotherstold us that they are dealing
with this problem.
They separate the sacred fromthe secular.
Have you seen that?
Well, that happens to everyoneand it's very difficult to
address.
Okay, so this Bible study triesto move away from that and try
(11:01):
to go to help your mind to seethe Bible as an answer to your
problems in life, not to teachyou doctrines, okay.
Okay, I was going to saysomething important on this too.
The next thing is that it wasfrustrating to teach about a
(11:24):
biblical worldview what it is.
It's too sophisticated for me,especially if you are dealing
with simple people.
So after using these biblicalprinciples, I realized this A
person can get a biblical mind,a biblical worldview without
(11:44):
knowing what a biblicalworldview is.
You know, and that's it.
So you are going to help, Imean, you're going to simplify
things very much.
A person can get a biblicalmind, a biblical worldview,
without knowing what a worldviewis.
That's it, you know, withoutknowing what a worldview is.
(12:07):
That's it, you know.
So that's why I try to put allemphasis on this biblical
principles.
Okay, so I have learned somethings while I was doing this,
so I want to share them inadvance so you can understand a
little bit.
What are we going to do later?
Okay, the first thing is thatthe Word of God is in the Bible,
(12:30):
but at the same time, it's increation too.
This is very important, youknow, because sometimes in Bible
we have only a piece of thepicture, but we don't have the
whole picture.
Not necessarily, okay, but it'snot in contradiction.
(12:52):
The Bible says that God madethe universe by his word.
So the word of God is rightthere.
You only need to open your mindto see it.
Okay, but just in case, goddecided to write it down, okay,
it's supposed to be self-evident, but because we are in darkness
(13:14):
, we don't see it clearly.
But if you are a set in theBible and you are opening your
mind to see these truths.
You're going to see them outthere clearly.
Okay, so we are going to do.
Why I say this?
Because some principles arevery hard to find in the Bible.
(13:37):
Okay, because sometimes to havea Bible verse is a requirement
for the evangelical mind, youknow, and it's very difficult to
do sometimes, but it's evident.
You know, see it?
No, but it's not in the Bible.
Where did you get this?
You are going to, you know,find people like that, but
(14:02):
remember this, you know, theWord of God is out there too.
Another thing is that we shouldnever understand the Bible in
contradiction to the naturallife.
When we do that, something iswrong and that something is not
(14:25):
out there, it's inside here.
We are not understanding thething, and this happened very
commonly with evangelicals.
They twist the natural life tofit in their under spiritual
understanding.
And you know and that makesthat make, that has terrible
consequences why we believersare far from politics, why we
(14:48):
believers are not more educatedpeople.
Why don't we, why are not we inthose levels fighting for our
nations?
Because we have understood theBible, you know, in
contradiction to natural life,and that's a big, big mistake.
(15:10):
Okay, so if you want to workwith principles, you have to
question yourself all the time,am I understanding this rightly?
And sometimes to give that stepto become a little bit profane
and say, well, if my pastor seesme thinking this way, he will
kick me out of the church, but Iwill do it anyway.
(15:30):
You have to do it, otherwiseyou will not understand the
whole picture.
So this is very important.
The other thing is thatprinciples, as I told you,
should be defined likephilosophical concepts, not as
(15:52):
theological concepts.
I mean, we use the Bible like atool to answer important
questions in life.
We don't use the Bible toindoctrinate people.
If you do that, they won't grow.
They will become like militarypeople.
(16:13):
Yes, sir, no sir, you know, butif you help them to think, I
remember I met an Americanpastor and he told me something
that to me is like the sun inthe sky.
He told me this Arturo, peopledo not live out of theologies,
(16:35):
people live out of the thingsthat make sense in their lives.
You know the gospel or the wordof God has to make sense in your
life, otherwise it won't helpyou.
You know it needs to make sense, and biblical principles, in
(16:58):
this case the way I'm going toshow you.
I'll try to be presented thatway to make sense in your life
what's the value of a woman,what's what's what's history?
You know, if those things don'tmake sense in your life, you're
lost.
No matter how much you go tochurch, you understand, and some
(17:22):
church doctrines are stillworse, you know they give you
ideas that you should question.
That's true.
Okay, next thing is most ofpeople oh, I don't see that
thing Most people try to makeChristianity out of Bible verses
(17:46):
.
You know, bible verses are nice.
I can do all things in Christwho strengthen me, yeah, that's
great.
But you know where are yougoing with that?
You?
know, I mean we make it's acliche.
You know I mean we make it's acliche.
(18:07):
You know we sometimes useverses that we try to use them
to lift up our spirits but inreality, as the Apostle Paul
says, it doesn't give fruit inyour mind.
You didn't say anything andsometimes that's the way we use
them.
You know you cannot make abiblical mind with Bible verses,
(18:30):
memorizing them one another,one another.
Yeah, you can have some usefulthings, you know, but you cannot
make a whole picture of realityout of that.
You need to get those Bibleverses and make principles.
Principles have funny names justbecause of that.
For instance, life is sacred.
(18:50):
Where does it say in the Biblelife is sacred, human life is
sacred?
Nowhere, but I know it is.
It is there.
It's implied in many ways, butI got it.
I mean biblical principles arehidden in the Bible.
You have to discover them.
Listen, this is very important.
(19:11):
You cannot teach Bibleprinciples.
You have to help people todiscover, to realize, to realize
Bible principles.
Okay, what does it say?
Sometimes, as I told you,sometimes the Bible provides
(19:33):
very little information aboutsome principles, but you can see
it abundantly in creation.
So you need to be smart to knowhow to present it to people in
order to convince them that thisis in the Bible, it's in
agreement with God's creation.
Okay, another thing is thatbiblical principles necessarily
(19:56):
necessarily produces results innatural life.
You know, sometimes weevangelical believers we don't
necessarily accept things thisway.
I'm happy that it soundsspiritual, but if I am poor, if
I don't prosper, it's fine.
(20:17):
I will suffer the Lord'sconsequence of bearing his
mission in this life.
Luke Allen (20:23):
Doesn't make sense.
Doesn't make sense.
Arturo Cuba (20:28):
The word principle in this case is the same thing
that you can use it in science,for instance, gravity was
discovered as a principle.
Okay, and does it producenatural consequences?
Yes, it does.
You can try it if you want,you'll see.
(20:51):
You know, you cannot go againstthe principle.
You will suffer theconsequences.
So what does a principle say?
A principle is the basicstructure that God used to
design his universe.
It's a basic structure, it'sbasic truths.
They are like columns and beamsof construction.
(21:15):
You can move everything else,but you cannot touch those.
If you do it, the whole thingcan collapse.
Okay, you cannot go againstbiblical principles.
So you will recognize that whenyou see this, for instance,
life is sacred.
It's very important forprosperity, it's very important
for the development of humanlife, it's very important for
God's kingdom.
(21:36):
It's not written in the Biblelike such, but you can find
pieces to organize a teachingabout this principle.
It's fundamental, okay, assomeone yesterday said, it's
fundamental.
You cannot construct anythingwithout it, okay, okay, so, but
(21:58):
biblical principles because ofsomething we're going to say
later, they have theircompetitors.
Okay, biblical principles aretruths, truths.
I have problems saying truthand true.
Okay, so you help me with this.
(22:19):
Okay, biblical principles aretruths, truths.
But we live in a world where wecan find lies.
Okay.
To me everything is summed upthis way, because God's truth
(22:45):
produces life.
If you can live it out, youwill be happy, you will be
developed, you will be prospered, you will be realized in the
person God wanted you to be, ifyou can live those truths.
But the problem is that youwere born in a world that has
(23:07):
put the lies in your mind.
You were born in a world thathas put the lies in your mind,
and that's the tragedy,basically, okay.
So we see communities, we seenations that are poor,
underdeveloped, where there issuffering, oppression, injustice
and all kind of difficulties.
Most of that, if not all, isbased on lies.
(23:30):
They are cultures of lies, ofdarkness.
On the other hand, as I tellyou, well, this is a battle.
This is a battle.
You have to deal with people.
Normally, you don't need money,you don't need resources.
(23:54):
The only thing you needbasically is to be able to
change what is in the mind ofpeople.
If you can do that, you willsee how the people themselves
can stand up and do great things, and God will bless them.
Sometimes we make this mistake.
We think that, yeah, we needGod's word, but we also need
(24:18):
some resources.
That's fine.
If you want to make projects,that's great.
If you want to do things likethat, awesome.
But little by little, you be beled astray.
Your perception of reality willchange, okay, so I'm not saying
(24:40):
is bad.
Money and resources are veryimportant, but what I'm saying
is that truth, truths arefundamental.
If you can manage that, addedeverything, okay, but don't,
don't make, don't make a mistake.
(25:01):
That's, that's, that's in myopinion, okay.
Okay next, as I told you, liesproduce death.
When I say death, I'm talkingabout poverty, talking about
oppression, depression,ignorance, underdevelopment,
(25:25):
backwardness, sickness,superstition.
All those things are based onlies, you know.
So we have these two things andour battle is defined right
there.
(25:46):
Have you heard about thosestories of missions who came to
the country, poured a lot ofmoney, trained pastors, they
left and then the party started,they sold the land, they took
the money.
Have you heard those stories?
(26:07):
Okay, that's why I rememberwhen I went to work to Guatemala
in a development organizationFood for the Hungry, darrell was
working in that organization.
That's why I met him.
So I went to Guatemala and wesaw the staff.
(26:29):
I met him.
So I went to Guatemala and wesaw the staff.
Who are the staff?
I mean, the staff are somepeople that we hire that belong
to the same people we want tohelp.
Okay, so you hire sick people touse them to, you know, to heal
(26:50):
the other sick people.
It doesn't make sense.
Right, it doesn't make sense.
It's ridiculous.
If you were born in a poorcountry, you are sick, no matter
how is your faith, you're sickand you don't know it.
That's the interesting thing,because lies and truths are
(27:15):
hidden in your mind Like thingsthat are under the table.
It's very difficult to bringthem on the table.
You need a particular techniqueto do that, okay, but trust me,
trust me.
Trust me what I'm saying.
If you were born in a poorcountry, you know you have the
(27:39):
lies that your own people haveand you don't know it, and you
need a process to be healed.
You need to apply thoseprinciples to yourself first.
So try to avoid that idea that,oh, I learned some nice things
(28:00):
and next thing, I want to getall the people gathered and I
will share them what I learned.
No, forget it.
God will not honor that.
Okay, he will work if youyourself are able to reflect on
those things and to find thosetruths no, those lies in your
(28:22):
life and be able to live histruth.
When you do that, god will useyou.
He will use you.
He will use you.
Remember, as my new friend,chris Sampa do told me, god is
the one who makes transformation.
You can't do it.
(28:43):
You know, god is the one whomakes transformation and if you
are able to fight this fight inyour own life, he will be with
you.
He will walk with you, he willdo great things with you.
He will use you to teach otherpeople, okay, but remember this
If you were born in a poorsociety, you are sick too, okay,
(29:07):
and you need healing, okay,okay, okay, I said that already.
You are sick too, okay, and youneed healing, okay, okay, I
said that already.
Something interesting, and thisis very hard to tell
evangelicals, especially ofthose who are their minds
trapped in their faith, corruptin their faith.
(29:32):
Biblical truths do notnecessarily belong only to
believers.
They are universal.
So you are going to find,surprisingly, that even
non-believers who live biblicaltruths, they prosper.
You see how they do it.
They don't even believe in Godand see, everything is going
(29:53):
fine with them.
How can they do it?
Because it works.
It's God's universal laws forpeople On the other side.
If you're a believer and you goto church every day, you bring
your family, you do everything,bible studies, but you, you know
(30:14):
, do not practice biblicaltruths, it won't work and you
will continue being poor and youwill continue not prospering
and you will continue havingtroubles in life, not prospering
and you will continue havingtroubles in life.
I'm tired of seeing thatmediocrity in this church, of
people who seem to love God butcannot go anywhere.
(30:38):
This is very common.
Probably you know names rightnow, so this is very important.
Biblical truths are universaland this is a very nice thing,
you know, because it depends howyou teach them, how you use
(30:58):
them in your teachings.
I worked in Food for the Hungry.
Food for the Hungry is anorganization that hires
believers well in that time, andsometimes non-believers,
because we need technical peopleand we don't find believers
with that ability.
So I had these teachings withthem, you know, and it was
(31:25):
interesting.
After teaching these principles, some people came to me.
They approached me and said youknow, arturo, I'm not a
believer.
My wife is the believer.
She drags me to the church withmy children and I don't
understand what they talk.
But this thing this is anotherstory that makes sense.
(31:46):
You know, sometimes we sharethe gospel.
That doesn't make sense and weare trusting that the Holy
Spirit will do his job.
You know, you say things thatdon't make sense, but he touches
their hearts, but it doesn'thave to be that way, okay, and I
(32:06):
have seen many people to cometo the Lord because they
understood what God wants frompeople, and this is beautiful.
It is a different story.
Another thing which is veryimportant Truths or lies, you
know, are normally hidden inparadigms Paradigms Paradigm is
(32:27):
a very important word, you know.
Paradigms are the things you dowithout knowing.
How can I say this?
Paradigms are things that youare forced to do because your
(32:49):
mind Let me Okay, we all liveout of paradigms.
We don't know it, we don't knowit, but paradigms are a very
important part in our minds,most of our decisions in life.
Some of them are takenconsciously, but many others
that are very important aretaken unconsciously.
(33:12):
They are taken by paradigms.
For instance, we are going totalk about this.
But authority, what isauthority In the third world?
Authority is an awful thing.
It's the authorization to dowhatever you want and to beat
(33:36):
whoever you want.
But you don't know it untilthey name you the boss.
When I was working in Food forthe Hungry, I used to meet very
nice kids, so humble, so willingto work, to do things.
So when the time came, somebodysaid, okay, it's time to
(34:02):
replace this leader.
So let's name this little guywho is so humble and works so
hard and you know, big mistake,because when he became the boss,
it was another person and heended up fighting against
everyone, firing people.
(34:23):
I mean, he was a very nice guy,he was the friend of everyone,
but when he became a boss,things change.
Have you noticed that?
Yeah, because that's a part ofthat, and and and he probably he
himself doesn't know it, youknow, he himself doesn't know it
.
Well, probably some peopledon't understand this, but in my
(34:44):
world this is very common.
So I hate a world where we havea boss and and I think the
Bible does not encourage you todo that, because the Bible knows
that all men is a sinner, youknow.
Luke Allen (35:02):
And, but we have to fight that paradigm?
Arturo Cuba (35:04):
Okay, but you don't know it until the moment comes.
What happens with money?
Oh, I'm poor, I just wantenough to meet my needs, to feed
my children.
All of a sudden, a lot of moneycame, and what happens?
(35:26):
What happens when a lot ofmoney comes?
Maybe the reason why God doesnot want to give us more money
is because he knows what isgoing to happen.
You know, it's true, it'scomplicated, it's very
complicated, but it's true.
(35:47):
Truths or lies, especially lies,are hidden in paradigms, and
you have to.
I mean why biblical principlesare nice?
Because they how do you say¿Cómo se dice Delatar?
Yeah, can reveal who you reallyare, expose you.
(36:08):
It exposes you.
Yeah, okay, that's very.
If you teach biblical principlesand you don't feel that, trust
me, I think something is notgoing well.
You know, the first thing isthat you have to find this,
especially if you were born in athird world country.
That's what I'm saying.
Okay, so you have to deal withthat, and if you do it honestly
(36:33):
before the face of the Lord, hewill bless you, he will change
you and he will use you tochange many people.
Okay, okay.
And the next thing is that aflourishing community requires
citizens to have a mindconstructed on biblical
principles.
That's necessary.
(36:54):
I mean, as I told you, you canbring money, you can bring
projects, you can help people toget a better situation, but if
they don't change their minds,you are wasting your time.
Okay, they might make amonument or put your name
(37:15):
somewhere, but later on it won'twork.
You need to change their minds.
You need to do a basic job,that is, to change their minds
and their hearts.
Okay, that's the, you know, theroof of a flourishing nation.
Changes are much better whenare made by the very people
(37:46):
you're working with.
I'll tell you a story thatothers always ask me to tell.
I was working in Guatemala, andwe were working in a community
that is very well known forbeing a hard community.
People don't want anything,they don't like progress.
I mean, they are the oppositeof what would you like to do.
(38:11):
I mean, I don't know why theyare that way.
Okay, but they are verydifficult.
And there was this organization.
Their name was COSUDE COSUDE Ithink they are a European
organization, it's the USA ofsome European country and they
(38:34):
were working in the countryside.
In Guatemala, people live out ofcorn.
Corn is not only the basic food, but sometimes it's the only
food they have and they plantcorn.
Sometimes is the only food theyhave and they plant corn and
they have a particular way ofdoing things.
They harvest the corn and theylive in shacks with a simple
(39:01):
ceiling made out of some piecesof wood and they put all the
corn on top of that and that ison top of, well, in the upper
part of the room, and they cookin open fire and they think that
corn gets dry because the firethey have every day right there.
(39:24):
But since the corn is there,exposed, there, exposed, you
know, the rats come and theytake their part, you know, and
all the bugs come and they taketheir part.
So finally, when the pocket,the pocket she does the tribe,
when the pocket she comes totake his part is a very little
part, okay.
So they have this big problem.
(39:44):
In Kosu they had this technologyto help them to make drying
cabins outside with specialthings made to avoid the rats
and all the things that they.
Simple technology but very nicethings to do, and to storage
corn.
So, but the Poconchi didn'twant to do that.
(40:06):
I mean so, but the Poconchididn't want to do that.
I mean those things were verysimple.
But they didn't want to do that.
So they came to our office andsaid you know we give up.
You work with these people, goand teach them and if they hear
you, we will transfer ourtechnology to you so you can,
and even funds so you can helpthem to improve their situation.
(40:28):
And at that time I was workingin Food for the Hungry, but my
wife was the country directorand that's not a good idea.
Okay, when your wife is yourboss, trust me, it's not a good
idea.
Luke Allen (40:48):
Trust me, it's not a good idea.
Arturo Cuba (40:49):
So one day my wife called me and told me you know
this and this is happening.
So we need to take thistechnology and to use it in our
project.
So what?
What do you want me to do?
Go and teach them.
What do you want me to do?
Go and teach them.
So I had to go and I went toone of those communities, the
(41:14):
one that was more open to us,and I asked for a meeting and
there were some 40 people,around 40 people, and I was
thinking about how can Iconvince them that, that they
need to use this technology.
So at that time I was teachingthis Bible principles, and there
(41:38):
is one that you're going tohear later that is called man
has dominion over nature or overcreation, I don't know, it has
different names, but somethinglike that.
So I went to them and I didn'tsay much as an introduction.
I took the Bible and read thoseverses in Genesis that say that
(41:59):
, and I asked people the simplequestion what does it say here?
That God gave authority to menover animals.
And they say yes, okay.
So who is in command?
That's the word they like more.
Who's in command?
Men or rats?
They say men.
(42:20):
Okay, are you sure, yes.
So I'll tell you a story.
There is this Pocomchi farmerwho is very concerned about his
family and he knows that heneeds to work the land and to
bring the corn to his family.
So he wakes up very early inthe morning and takes all his
(42:41):
tools and he goes walking to hispiece of land to start working.
On the other hand, there is arat who's sleeping all day.
Who's sleeping all day?
And you know, and every time Isaid a little part of this story
(43:01):
, I asked them who is in command, man or the rat?
At the beginning they weresaying man, you know, but little
by little they realized I wastalking about them.
You know, because this farmer,finally, he rips all the crops
and he's working hard, you know,taking the thing in his bag,
(43:25):
and the rat says, oh, it's timefor lunch.
And when I said that, theybegan to laugh about themselves.
They knew it.
And the story ends that hetakes all the corn and puts it
in a plate and serves the rat.
And they didn't want to answerwhen I said who is in command,
(43:46):
because they were just laughing.
Next day they were building allthe drying cabins and in a few
months the whole place wasfilled with those cabins.
People do not live out oftheologies.
People live out of the thingsthat make sense in their lives,
(44:06):
and the only thing we did was totake a biblical principle and
to make it a small story.
You know, that's the idea.
Biblical principles need totalk about your life, about your
needs.
It needs to respond yournecessities in life.
Right, okay, brothers, we'regoing to stop here.
(44:29):
Brothers and brothers, we'regoing to stop here.
Brothers and sisters, we aregoing to continue tomorrow.
Okay, thank you.
Luke Allen (44:42):
Thank you for listening to this special
training episode with our goodfriend Arturo Cuba, who, by the
way, will most likely be at thissummer's DNA Forum, happening
in Panama City from August 4ththrough 8th.
Again, the forum is always sucha special time for us as a DNA
family of kingdomizers, trainersand practitioners from around
the world to come together for aweek of encouragement and
(45:05):
learning.
This year's particular theme isthe essential role of the local
church in discipling nations.
So, again, if you did receivethat invitation in your inbox,
please go ahead and register assoon as possible, because those
registration prices will begoing up on June 1st and, again,
we'd love to get an accurateheadcount somewhat soon.
So if you've already registered, then thank you.
(45:25):
We can't wait to see you downthere in Panama.
And, again, as a reminder, thisis an invitation only event.
But if you are newer to themovement and we might not have
your contact information yet andthus did not send you an
invitation, then you can requestan invitation, and how you can
do that is by heading over toour webpage for the forum, which
is disciplenationsorg backslashform 2025, which I also have
(45:48):
linked in the show notes, and onthat page you can request an
invitation.
But again, just as a reminder,this form is for DNA
Kingdomizers, so that means it'sfor people who regularly
interact with our contentwhether that's our podcast, our
books or our training coursesand is applying these principles
that they're learning intotheir lives.
So if that sounds like you,then please go ahead and head
(46:09):
over to disciplenationsorgbackslash form 2025 and go ahead
and request an invitation ifyou did not receive that
invitation yet.
All right, that's it for today,guys, thanks again for
listening to this episode ofIdeas have Consequences, the
podcast of the Disciple NationsAlliance.
Hi friends, welcome, or welcome back to.
Ideas have Consequences.
This is the podcast of theDisciple Nations Alliance.
Thank you so much for joiningus for this special episode.
Why is it special?
Well, because we are lookingahead at a big event coming up
on our calendar the DNA Forum,which is happening this summer
from August 4th through 8th inbeautiful Panama City, panama.
(00:27):
The DNA Forum is always ameaningful time for our global
family of Kingdomizers, trainersand practitioners to gather for
worship, fellowship andlearning.
This year's particular theme isthe essential role of the local
church in discipling nations.
We're incredibly excited forthis event and we hope to see as
many of you there as we can.
(00:47):
Now a quick note this is aninvitation-only event, primarily
due to the resource limitationsat the venue.
So if you're a DNA Kingdomizerand received an invitation in
your inbox recently, please makesure to register soon.
Registration costs will beincreasing after June 1st and
we'd love to get an accuratehead count soon.
If you've already registered,then amazing.
(01:08):
We can't wait to see you downthere in Panama Now.
If you did not receive aninvitation, don't worry, it
might just mean that we do nothave your contact info yet.
So if you are new to thismovement.
If you're a regular listener tothis podcast, if you've read
one or two of our books and ifyou've taken one of our courses,
such as the Kingdomizer 101course, and you're applying
(01:29):
these principles that you'relearning into your life, then we
would love to connect with you.
And if who I'm describingsounds like you, then you can
request an invitation to theforum by going over to our
signup page on our website,which is disciplenationsorg
backslash form 2025.
Again, that'sdisciplenationsorg backslash
(01:49):
form 2025, or you can follow thelink in the show notes and on
that page you will seeinformation about how you can
request an invitation to theform.
All right, this episode is alsospecial because it falls
outside of our normal weeklyschedule, and we did this
because we wanted to give you alittle taste of what our forms
look like.
So today we are going to besharing one of our favorite
(02:09):
teachings from our form threeyears ago in Ethiopia.
The keynote speaker at thatform was Arturo Cuba, one of the
DNA's earliest and mostinfluential trainers and,
personally, one of my absolutefavorites.
Arturo is from Bolivia and hasspent over 20 years creatively
discipling people with abiblical worldview, especially
(02:30):
in rural tribes across LatinAmerica.
His unique outside-of-the-boxapproach to teaching biblical
truths is always inspiring,convicting and challenging in
all the best ways.
What you're about to hear ishis opening talk from the
Ethiopia Forum.
I personally found it deeplythought-provoking and edifying,
and I hope you will too.
(02:50):
So, without further ado, here'sArturo Kuba.
Arturo Cuba (02:57):
Good morning, buenos dias.
That's in the heavenly languageyou might understand.
I will share a little bit of mystory.
Not much, because there aremany things I want to share with
(03:17):
you, but first of all I willmake a disclaimer, disclaiming,
disclaim.
Ok, I will make this claim,this claim, this claim.
Okay, my life passion is toteach about biblical principles,
those I have learned in thisministry of community
development.
I don't know anything aboutprinciples for politics, for
(03:40):
economics, for business, forleadership, so please don't
think I am an expert in thosethings.
Okay, I have had troubles inthe past because people think
about me more than they should.
Okay, my experience is withvery poor communities, people
with almost no education, okay,people in very hard situations,
(04:04):
situations most of thembelievers, and and I think is
that they are the best peoplefor for teaching.
When I work with them, god didgreat things and I say, wow, if
this happened with you know,illiterate and poor people.
(04:27):
If I go back to my country andI talk to my people who are more
educated, university people, itwould be much better.
You know, wrong, you know,trust me, I mean, it doesn't
work with the smart people.
Okay, smart people have manythings in their heads and it's
(04:52):
like the parable, when the Lordsays that the farmer is throwing
the seed and there are birdswaiting for the seed.
Okay, that's smart people.
They have too many problems,they have too many things.
They have too many things.
They hear you and say, oh,there must be something better,
let's go to the next seminaryand things like that.
But poor people, simple people,desperate people, they are
(05:16):
looking for God in some ways andthey open their eyes and their
ears and that's a greatopportunity for someone who
wants to work with them.
That happened to me.
I didn't expect that, but theLord guided me to do that.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
(05:36):
I'm sorry my computer is nothere and somebody's going to
bring a computer, but I tried tofollow the line I try to
remember.
The next thing is that biblicalprinciples.
I remember when I heard Darrellthe first time.
Darrell is an incredible guy.
I mean God changed my life whenI met him and he changed it
(06:01):
dramatically.
But hearing about biblicalworldview was a too Western
message in the voice of Darrelland very beautiful ideas, very
nice things, new things, buthard to share with poor people,
(06:21):
with Latin Americans, probablywith Africans the same thing,
because we live in a differentcontext and how to translate
those ideas.
It was very difficult inGuatemala.
I was living in Guatemala atthat time, so we spent a lot of
a long time trying to do it.
But it was frustrating becausepeople didn't understand what a
(06:44):
worldview is, you know, and andit was very difficult, and
Guatemalans have a very funnyway of doing things when they
don't understand something, theybegin to make jokes about that.
Yeah, so when, when I saw that,I said let's stop this, let's
(07:09):
not talk about biblicalworldview anymore.
So I was checking all thereading material that Daryl used
to send us and I foundsomething very interesting.
I found a Bible study, and weevangelicals love Bible studies.
He says the development ethicBible study.
(07:30):
I said development ethic.
I was very evangelical at thattime, you know.
So it sounded very hard for mewhat is development ethic?
But little by little it came inplace.
But you know, if you read hisbook Discipling Nations, the
book is made out of thatcurricula and if you see he's
(07:55):
following those lines and theyhave funny names for an
evangelical mind, principlesthat are named, for instance,
man have dominion over nature orthe universe is a rational
order, and I say, wow, thesewords are too big.
I had a bunch of farmers whonever went to school, so how to
(08:21):
do this?
But it was very simple and thenice thing is that when I
started using it it was like anelectrical effect.
Everybody just got shocked withthose ideas.
This Bible, bible study, beganto work, and work fine.
So I reviewed the whole thingand I said, well, this is a gold
(08:44):
mine for this business.
If I can see how to use it, howto manage this, I think it can
produce something nice.
I have worked with this idea ofbiblical principles for many,
many years and I have found manyinteresting things, many, many
interesting things, manyinteresting things.
(09:08):
Okay, many, many interestingthings.
And I will try to use one ofthese lessons as if you were the
people who are, you know, mystudents or or the people I want
to share these ideas you know,as a practical thing so you can
see how it works, and at thesame time, I will try to share
with you some important ideasabout this.
(09:30):
Okay, the first thing, I willmake a kind of introduction
Principles although we call thembiblical principles, we have to
think of them as philosophicalconcepts, not theological
conceptsical.
I mean what I'm trying to saywith this.
What I'm trying to say is thatthose principles are not
(09:54):
designed to teach you aparticular doctrine or
particular theology.
Those principles try to answeror to respond your needs in life
.
Try to respond importantquestions of life.
(10:15):
That's what philosophy does.
That's why it's philosophic andit's going to help you to think
out of the box.
You know, I believe, that mostChristian believers, evangelical
believers, have a big problem.
They are all packed in the samebox and that box is their
(10:39):
theology.
Like yesterday, our brotherstold us that they are dealing
with this problem.
They separate the sacred fromthe secular.
Have you seen that?
Well, that happens to everyoneand it's very difficult to
address.
Okay, so this Bible study triesto move away from that and try
(11:01):
to go to help your mind to seethe Bible as an answer to your
problems in life, not to teachyou doctrines, okay.
Okay, I was going to saysomething important on this too.
The next thing is that it wasfrustrating to teach about a
(11:24):
biblical worldview what it is.
It's too sophisticated for me,especially if you are dealing
with simple people.
So after using these biblicalprinciples, I realized this A
person can get a biblical mind,a biblical worldview without
(11:44):
knowing what a biblicalworldview is.
You know, and that's it.
So you are going to help, Imean, you're going to simplify
things very much.
A person can get a biblicalmind, a biblical worldview,
without knowing what a worldviewis.
That's it, you know, withoutknowing what a worldview is.
(12:07):
That's it, you know.
So that's why I try to put allemphasis on this biblical
principles.
Okay, so I have learned somethings while I was doing this,
so I want to share them inadvance so you can understand a
little bit.
What are we going to do later?
Okay, the first thing is thatthe Word of God is in the Bible,
(12:30):
but at the same time, it's increation too.
This is very important, youknow, because sometimes in Bible
we have only a piece of thepicture, but we don't have the
whole picture.
Not necessarily, okay, but it'snot in contradiction.
(12:52):
The Bible says that God madethe universe by his word.
So the word of God is rightthere.
You only need to open your mindto see it.
Okay, but just in case, goddecided to write it down, okay,
it's supposed to be self-evident, but because we are in darkness
(13:14):
, we don't see it clearly.
But if you are a set in theBible and you are opening your
mind to see these truths.
You're going to see them outthere clearly.
Okay, so we are going to do.
Why I say this?
Because some principles arevery hard to find in the Bible.
(13:37):
Okay, because sometimes to havea Bible verse is a requirement
for the evangelical mind, youknow, and it's very difficult to
do sometimes, but it's evident.
You know, see it?
No, but it's not in the Bible.
Where did you get this?
You are going to, you know,find people like that, but
(14:02):
remember this, you know, theWord of God is out there too.
Another thing is that we shouldnever understand the Bible in
contradiction to the naturallife.
When we do that, something iswrong and that something is not
(14:25):
out there, it's inside here.
We are not understanding thething, and this happened very
commonly with evangelicals.
They twist the natural life tofit in their under spiritual
understanding.
And you know and that makesthat make, that has terrible
consequences why we believersare far from politics, why we
(14:48):
believers are not more educatedpeople.
Why don't we, why are not we inthose levels fighting for our
nations?
Because we have understood theBible, you know, in
contradiction to natural life,and that's a big, big mistake.
(15:10):
Okay, so if you want to workwith principles, you have to
question yourself all the time,am I understanding this rightly?
And sometimes to give that stepto become a little bit profane
and say, well, if my pastor seesme thinking this way, he will
kick me out of the church, but Iwill do it anyway.
(15:30):
You have to do it, otherwiseyou will not understand the
whole picture.
So this is very important.
The other thing is thatprinciples, as I told you,
should be defined likephilosophical concepts, not as
(15:52):
theological concepts.
I mean, we use the Bible like atool to answer important
questions in life.
We don't use the Bible toindoctrinate people.
If you do that, they won't grow.
They will become like militarypeople.
(16:13):
Yes, sir, no sir, you know, butif you help them to think, I
remember I met an Americanpastor and he told me something
that to me is like the sun inthe sky.
He told me this Arturo, peopledo not live out of theologies,
(16:35):
people live out of the thingsthat make sense in their lives.
You know the gospel or the wordof God has to make sense in your
life, otherwise it won't helpyou.
You know it needs to make sense, and biblical principles, in
(16:58):
this case the way I'm going toshow you.
I'll try to be presented thatway to make sense in your life
what's the value of a woman,what's what's what's history?
You know, if those things don'tmake sense in your life, you're
lost.
No matter how much you go tochurch, you understand, and some
(17:22):
church doctrines are stillworse, you know they give you
ideas that you should question.
That's true.
Okay, next thing is most ofpeople oh, I don't see that
thing Most people try to makeChristianity out of Bible verses
(17:46):
.
You know, bible verses are nice.
I can do all things in Christwho strengthen me, yeah, that's
great.
But you know where are yougoing with that?
You?
know, I mean we make it's acliche.
You know I mean we make it's acliche.
(18:07):
You know we sometimes useverses that we try to use them
to lift up our spirits but inreality, as the Apostle Paul
says, it doesn't give fruit inyour mind.
You didn't say anything andsometimes that's the way we use
them.
You know you cannot make abiblical mind with Bible verses,
(18:30):
memorizing them one another,one another.
Yeah, you can have some usefulthings, you know, but you cannot
make a whole picture of realityout of that.
You need to get those Bibleverses and make principles.
Principles have funny names justbecause of that.
For instance, life is sacred.
(18:50):
Where does it say in the Biblelife is sacred, human life is
sacred?
Nowhere, but I know it is.
It is there.
It's implied in many ways, butI got it.
I mean biblical principles arehidden in the Bible.
You have to discover them.
Listen, this is very important.
(19:11):
You cannot teach Bibleprinciples.
You have to help people todiscover, to realize, to realize
Bible principles.
Okay, what does it say?
Sometimes, as I told you,sometimes the Bible provides
(19:33):
very little information aboutsome principles, but you can see
it abundantly in creation.
So you need to be smart to knowhow to present it to people in
order to convince them that thisis in the Bible, it's in
agreement with God's creation.
Okay, another thing is thatbiblical principles necessarily
(19:56):
necessarily produces results innatural life.
You know, sometimes weevangelical believers we don't
necessarily accept things thisway.
I'm happy that it soundsspiritual, but if I am poor, if
I don't prosper, it's fine.
(20:17):
I will suffer the Lord'sconsequence of bearing his
mission in this life.
Luke Allen (20:23):
Doesn't make sense.
Doesn't make sense.
Arturo Cuba (20:28):
The word principle in this case is the same thing
that you can use it in science,for instance, gravity was
discovered as a principle.
Okay, and does it producenatural consequences?
Yes, it does.
You can try it if you want,you'll see.
(20:51):
You know, you cannot go againstthe principle.
You will suffer theconsequences.
So what does a principle say?
A principle is the basicstructure that God used to
design his universe.
It's a basic structure, it'sbasic truths.
They are like columns and beamsof construction.
(21:15):
You can move everything else,but you cannot touch those.
If you do it, the whole thingcan collapse.
Okay, you cannot go againstbiblical principles.
So you will recognize that whenyou see this, for instance,
life is sacred.
It's very important forprosperity, it's very important
for the development of humanlife, it's very important for
God's kingdom.
(21:36):
It's not written in the Biblelike such, but you can find
pieces to organize a teachingabout this principle.
It's fundamental, okay, assomeone yesterday said, it's
fundamental.
You cannot construct anythingwithout it, okay, okay, so, but
(21:58):
biblical principles because ofsomething we're going to say
later, they have theircompetitors.
Okay, biblical principles aretruths, truths.
I have problems saying truthand true.
Okay, so you help me with this.
(22:19):
Okay, biblical principles aretruths, truths.
But we live in a world where wecan find lies.
Okay.
To me everything is summed upthis way, because God's truth
(22:45):
produces life.
If you can live it out, youwill be happy, you will be
developed, you will be prospered, you will be realized in the
person God wanted you to be, ifyou can live those truths.
But the problem is that youwere born in a world that has
(23:07):
put the lies in your mind.
You were born in a world thathas put the lies in your mind,
and that's the tragedy,basically, okay.
So we see communities, we seenations that are poor,
underdeveloped, where there issuffering, oppression, injustice
and all kind of difficulties.
Most of that, if not all, isbased on lies.
(23:30):
They are cultures of lies, ofdarkness.
On the other hand, as I tellyou, well, this is a battle.
This is a battle.
You have to deal with people.
Normally, you don't need money,you don't need resources.
(23:54):
The only thing you needbasically is to be able to
change what is in the mind ofpeople.
If you can do that, you willsee how the people themselves
can stand up and do great things, and God will bless them.
Sometimes we make this mistake.
We think that, yeah, we needGod's word, but we also need
(24:18):
some resources.
That's fine.
If you want to make projects,that's great.
If you want to do things likethat, awesome.
But little by little, you be beled astray.
Your perception of reality willchange, okay, so I'm not saying
(24:40):
is bad.
Money and resources are veryimportant, but what I'm saying
is that truth, truths arefundamental.
If you can manage that, addedeverything, okay, but don't,
don't make, don't make a mistake.
(25:01):
That's, that's, that's in myopinion, okay.
Okay next, as I told you, liesproduce death.
When I say death, I'm talkingabout poverty, talking about
oppression, depression,ignorance, underdevelopment,
(25:25):
backwardness, sickness,superstition.
All those things are based onlies, you know.
So we have these two things andour battle is defined right
there.
(25:46):
Have you heard about thosestories of missions who came to
the country, poured a lot ofmoney, trained pastors, they
left and then the party started,they sold the land, they took
the money.
Have you heard those stories?
(26:07):
Okay, that's why I rememberwhen I went to work to Guatemala
in a development organizationFood for the Hungry, darrell was
working in that organization.
That's why I met him.
So I went to Guatemala and wesaw the staff.
(26:29):
I met him.
So I went to Guatemala and wesaw the staff.
Who are the staff?
I mean, the staff are somepeople that we hire that belong
to the same people we want tohelp.
Okay, so you hire sick people touse them to, you know, to heal
(26:50):
the other sick people.
It doesn't make sense.
Right, it doesn't make sense.
It's ridiculous.
If you were born in a poorcountry, you are sick, no matter
how is your faith, you're sickand you don't know it.
That's the interesting thing,because lies and truths are
(27:15):
hidden in your mind Like thingsthat are under the table.
It's very difficult to bringthem on the table.
You need a particular techniqueto do that, okay, but trust me,
trust me.
Trust me what I'm saying.
If you were born in a poorcountry, you know you have the
(27:39):
lies that your own people haveand you don't know it, and you
need a process to be healed.
You need to apply thoseprinciples to yourself first.
So try to avoid that idea that,oh, I learned some nice things
(28:00):
and next thing, I want to getall the people gathered and I
will share them what I learned.
No, forget it.
God will not honor that.
Okay, he will work if youyourself are able to reflect on
those things and to find thosetruths no, those lies in your
(28:22):
life and be able to live histruth.
When you do that, god will useyou.
He will use you.
He will use you.
Remember, as my new friend,chris Sampa do told me, god is
the one who makes transformation.
You can't do it.
(28:43):
You know, god is the one whomakes transformation and if you
are able to fight this fight inyour own life, he will be with
you.
He will walk with you, he willdo great things with you.
He will use you to teach otherpeople, okay, but remember this
If you were born in a poorsociety, you are sick too, okay,
(29:07):
and you need healing, okay,okay, okay, I said that already.
You are sick too, okay, and youneed healing, okay, okay, I
said that already.
Something interesting, and thisis very hard to tell
evangelicals, especially ofthose who are their minds
trapped in their faith, corruptin their faith.
(29:32):
Biblical truths do notnecessarily belong only to
believers.
They are universal.
So you are going to find,surprisingly, that even
non-believers who live biblicaltruths, they prosper.
You see how they do it.
They don't even believe in Godand see, everything is going
(29:53):
fine with them.
How can they do it?
Because it works.
It's God's universal laws forpeople On the other side.
If you're a believer and you goto church every day, you bring
your family, you do everything,bible studies, but you, you know
(30:14):
, do not practice biblicaltruths, it won't work and you
will continue being poor and youwill continue not prospering
and you will continue havingtroubles in life, not prospering
and you will continue havingtroubles in life.
I'm tired of seeing thatmediocrity in this church, of
people who seem to love God butcannot go anywhere.
(30:38):
This is very common.
Probably you know names rightnow, so this is very important.
Biblical truths are universaland this is a very nice thing,
you know, because it depends howyou teach them, how you use
(30:58):
them in your teachings.
I worked in Food for the Hungry.
Food for the Hungry is anorganization that hires
believers well in that time, andsometimes non-believers,
because we need technical peopleand we don't find believers
with that ability.
So I had these teachings withthem, you know, and it was
(31:25):
interesting.
After teaching these principles, some people came to me.
They approached me and said youknow, arturo, I'm not a
believer.
My wife is the believer.
She drags me to the church withmy children and I don't
understand what they talk.
But this thing this is anotherstory that makes sense.
(31:46):
You know, sometimes we sharethe gospel.
That doesn't make sense and weare trusting that the Holy
Spirit will do his job.
You know, you say things thatdon't make sense, but he touches
their hearts, but it doesn'thave to be that way, okay, and I
(32:06):
have seen many people to cometo the Lord because they
understood what God wants frompeople, and this is beautiful.
It is a different story.
Another thing which is veryimportant Truths or lies, you
know, are normally hidden inparadigms Paradigms Paradigm is
(32:27):
a very important word, you know.
Paradigms are the things you dowithout knowing.
How can I say this?
Paradigms are things that youare forced to do because your
(32:49):
mind Let me Okay, we all liveout of paradigms.
We don't know it, we don't knowit, but paradigms are a very
important part in our minds,most of our decisions in life.
Some of them are takenconsciously, but many others
that are very important aretaken unconsciously.
(33:12):
They are taken by paradigms.
For instance, we are going totalk about this.
But authority, what isauthority In the third world?
Authority is an awful thing.
It's the authorization to dowhatever you want and to beat
(33:36):
whoever you want.
But you don't know it untilthey name you the boss.
When I was working in Food forthe Hungry, I used to meet very
nice kids, so humble, so willingto work, to do things.
So when the time came, somebodysaid, okay, it's time to
(34:02):
replace this leader.
So let's name this little guywho is so humble and works so
hard and you know, big mistake,because when he became the boss,
it was another person and heended up fighting against
everyone, firing people.
(34:23):
I mean, he was a very nice guy,he was the friend of everyone,
but when he became a boss,things change.
Have you noticed that?
Yeah, because that's a part ofthat, and and and he probably he
himself doesn't know it, youknow, he himself doesn't know it
.
Well, probably some peopledon't understand this, but in my
(34:44):
world this is very common.
So I hate a world where we havea boss and and I think the
Bible does not encourage you todo that, because the Bible knows
that all men is a sinner, youknow.
Luke Allen (35:02):
And, but we have to fight that paradigm?
Arturo Cuba (35:04):
Okay, but you don't know it until the moment comes.
What happens with money?
Oh, I'm poor, I just wantenough to meet my needs, to feed
my children.
All of a sudden, a lot of moneycame, and what happens?
(35:26):
What happens when a lot ofmoney comes?
Maybe the reason why God doesnot want to give us more money
is because he knows what isgoing to happen.
You know, it's true, it'scomplicated, it's very
complicated, but it's true.
(35:47):
Truths or lies, especially lies,are hidden in paradigms, and
you have to.
I mean why biblical principlesare nice?
Because they how do you say¿Cómo se dice Delatar?
Yeah, can reveal who you reallyare, expose you.
(36:08):
It exposes you.
Yeah, okay, that's very.
If you teach biblical principlesand you don't feel that, trust
me, I think something is notgoing well.
You know, the first thing isthat you have to find this,
especially if you were born in athird world country.
That's what I'm saying.
Okay, so you have to deal withthat, and if you do it honestly
(36:33):
before the face of the Lord, hewill bless you, he will change
you and he will use you tochange many people.
Okay, okay.
And the next thing is that aflourishing community requires
citizens to have a mindconstructed on biblical
principles.
That's necessary.
(36:54):
I mean, as I told you, you canbring money, you can bring
projects, you can help people toget a better situation, but if
they don't change their minds,you are wasting your time.
Okay, they might make amonument or put your name
(37:15):
somewhere, but later on it won'twork.
You need to change their minds.
You need to do a basic job,that is, to change their minds
and their hearts.
Okay, that's the, you know, theroof of a flourishing nation.
Changes are much better whenare made by the very people
(37:46):
you're working with.
I'll tell you a story thatothers always ask me to tell.
I was working in Guatemala, andwe were working in a community
that is very well known forbeing a hard community.
People don't want anything,they don't like progress.
I mean, they are the oppositeof what would you like to do.
(38:11):
I mean, I don't know why theyare that way.
Okay, but they are verydifficult.
And there was this organization.
Their name was COSUDE COSUDE Ithink they are a European
organization, it's the USA ofsome European country and they
(38:34):
were working in the countryside.
In Guatemala, people live out ofcorn.
Corn is not only the basic food, but sometimes it's the only
food they have and they plantcorn.
Sometimes is the only food theyhave and they plant corn and
they have a particular way ofdoing things.
They harvest the corn and theylive in shacks with a simple
(39:01):
ceiling made out of some piecesof wood and they put all the
corn on top of that and that ison top of, well, in the upper
part of the room, and they cookin open fire and they think that
corn gets dry because the firethey have every day right there.
(39:24):
But since the corn is there,exposed, there, exposed, you
know, the rats come and theytake their part, you know, and
all the bugs come and they taketheir part.
So finally, when the pocket,the pocket she does the tribe,
when the pocket she comes totake his part is a very little
part, okay.
So they have this big problem.
(39:44):
In Kosu they had this technologyto help them to make drying
cabins outside with specialthings made to avoid the rats
and all the things that they.
Simple technology but very nicethings to do, and to storage
corn.
So, but the Poconchi didn'twant to do that.
(40:06):
I mean so, but the Poconchididn't want to do that.
I mean those things were verysimple.
But they didn't want to do that.
So they came to our office andsaid you know we give up.
You work with these people, goand teach them and if they hear
you, we will transfer ourtechnology to you so you can,
and even funds so you can helpthem to improve their situation.
(40:28):
And at that time I was workingin Food for the Hungry, but my
wife was the country directorand that's not a good idea.
Okay, when your wife is yourboss, trust me, it's not a good
idea.
Luke Allen (40:48):
Trust me, it's not a good idea.
Arturo Cuba (40:49):
So one day my wife called me and told me you know
this and this is happening.
So we need to take thistechnology and to use it in our
project.
So what?
What do you want me to do?
Go and teach them.
What do you want me to do?
Go and teach them.
So I had to go and I went toone of those communities, the
(41:14):
one that was more open to us,and I asked for a meeting and
there were some 40 people,around 40 people, and I was
thinking about how can Iconvince them that, that they
need to use this technology.
So at that time I was teachingthis Bible principles, and there
(41:38):
is one that you're going tohear later that is called man
has dominion over nature or overcreation, I don't know, it has
different names, but somethinglike that.
So I went to them and I didn'tsay much as an introduction.
I took the Bible and read thoseverses in Genesis that say that
(41:59):
, and I asked people the simplequestion what does it say here?
That God gave authority to menover animals.
And they say yes, okay.
So who is in command?
That's the word they like more.
Who's in command?
Men or rats?
They say men.
(42:20):
Okay, are you sure, yes.
So I'll tell you a story.
There is this Pocomchi farmerwho is very concerned about his
family and he knows that heneeds to work the land and to
bring the corn to his family.
So he wakes up very early inthe morning and takes all his
(42:41):
tools and he goes walking to hispiece of land to start working.
On the other hand, there is arat who's sleeping all day.
Who's sleeping all day?
And you know, and every time Isaid a little part of this story
(43:01):
, I asked them who is in command, man or the rat?
At the beginning they weresaying man, you know, but little
by little they realized I wastalking about them.
You know, because this farmer,finally, he rips all the crops
and he's working hard, you know,taking the thing in his bag,
(43:25):
and the rat says, oh, it's timefor lunch.
And when I said that, theybegan to laugh about themselves.
They knew it.
And the story ends that hetakes all the corn and puts it
in a plate and serves the rat.
And they didn't want to answerwhen I said who is in command,
(43:46):
because they were just laughing.
Next day they were building allthe drying cabins and in a few
months the whole place wasfilled with those cabins.
People do not live out oftheologies.
People live out of the thingsthat make sense in their lives,
(44:06):
and the only thing we did was totake a biblical principle and
to make it a small story.
You know, that's the idea.
Biblical principles need totalk about your life, about your
needs.
It needs to respond yournecessities in life.
Right, okay, brothers, we'regoing to stop here.
(44:29):
Brothers and brothers, we'regoing to stop here.
Brothers and sisters, we aregoing to continue tomorrow.
Okay, thank you.
Luke Allen (44:42):
Thank you for listening to this special
training episode with our goodfriend Arturo Cuba, who, by the
way, will most likely be at thissummer's DNA Forum, happening
in Panama City from August 4ththrough 8th.
Again, the forum is always sucha special time for us as a DNA
family of kingdomizers, trainersand practitioners from around
the world to come together for aweek of encouragement and
(45:05):
learning.
This year's particular theme isthe essential role of the local
church in discipling nations.
So, again, if you did receivethat invitation in your inbox,
please go ahead and register assoon as possible, because those
registration prices will begoing up on June 1st and, again,
we'd love to get an accurateheadcount somewhat soon.
So if you've already registered, then thank you.
(45:25):
We can't wait to see you downthere in Panama.
And, again, as a reminder, thisis an invitation only event.
But if you are newer to themovement and we might not have
your contact information yet andthus did not send you an
invitation, then you can requestan invitation, and how you can
do that is by heading over toour webpage for the forum, which
is disciplenationsorg backslashform 2025, which I also have
(45:48):
linked in the show notes, and onthat page you can request an
invitation.
But again, just as a reminder,this form is for DNA
Kingdomizers, so that means it'sfor people who regularly
interact with our contentwhether that's our podcast, our
books or our training coursesand is applying these principles
that they're learning intotheir lives.
So if that sounds like you,then please go ahead and head
(46:09):
over to disciplenationsorgbackslash form 2025 and go ahead
and request an invitation ifyou did not receive that
invitation yet.
All right, that's it for today,guys, thanks again for
listening to this episode ofIdeas have Consequences, the
podcast of the Disciple NationsAlliance.
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