Our Story: The Genesis of Disciple Nations Alliance | Bob Moffitt - Ideas Have Consequences

Episode Transcript
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Scott Allen (00:00):
Welcome again, everyone, to another episode of
Ideas have Consequences.
This is the podcast of theDisciple Nations Alliance.
I'm Scott Allen, I'm thepresident of the DNA, joined
today by Dwight Vogt and LukeAllen, and today we're honored
to have as our special guestco-founder of the Disciple
Nations Alliance, longtimefriend, chairman of the board of

(00:22):
the Disciple Nations Alliance,bob Moffitt.
Bob, it's great to have youwith us today.

Bob Moffitt (00:28):
It's great to be here.

You know we've had you on Bob before, but we
thought, gosh, it'd be great tohave you back on again.
And Luke was talking to meabout how he, as a kind of a
second-generation DNA person,wasn't clear about some of the
origins of the DNA.
So he had questions and wethought let's get Bob on and
maybe Darrow at some point too,to go back to the beginnings, go

(00:53):
back to the origins of the DNA,and that's what we want to do
today.
So, because I was around atthat time, I'm going to pass the
baton to Luke for questions andI'll kind of take the seat of
the interviewee, I guess.
Luke, why don't you take itaway?

Luke Allen (01:09):
Yeah Well, thanks, Dad.
Yeah, I'm excited for today.
This is an episode that I'vewanted to do for a little while.
This is Ideas have Consequences, but it is, as you guys know,
the podcast of the DiscipleNations Alliance.
We used to call it the DiscipleNations Alliance podcast, but
that's just a mouthful, so wedecided to rebrand to give it a

(01:29):
little bit of a unique feel withideas have consequences, but we
all work and serve at theDisciple Nations Alliance here.
So if you're wondering who weare, what we do, why we do what
we do, today I kind of want tounpack, like you were saying,
dad, the origin story, a littlewalk down memory lane of the DNA
.
So, um, you guys listening,we'll have a little bit of a
better idea of, yeah, what we'repassionate about, where that

(01:50):
came from, um, where these ideas, you know, originally sprouted
from.
Uh, so I know for myself, I'vebeen, I I think the DNA outlives
me.
So a lot of this happened in mywee years.
So I don't know much of it.
And I know, Dad, you were a partof the very early on stages of

(02:12):
the Disciple Nations Alliance.
Bob and Darrow were thefounders and Dwight, you were
there as well, going to theteachings and trainings around
the world.
So all of you guys know a lotmore than I do and are listeners
.
So, yeah, let's unpack it.
I'm excited To get thingsstarted.
We were just talking about thisbefore the episode, before we
launched the episode here, butI'd like to know, Bob, if you

(02:36):
can remember where that initialspark of idea for cultural
discipleship, that vision forcultural discipleship, and what
eventually became the DNA, wherethat first idea sprung into
someone's mind.
Where was that?
When was that?
Do you remember?

that.
Well, it's really in two areas,luke.
You know I would say that theidea was born for the DNA, both
separately in Darrow's mind andin mine.
We were both very concernedabout the poor and that growing

(03:35):
into a concern.
For how do we see culturalchange in nations around the
world where there were so manypoor and especially the church,
respond in a way and be taughtto respond in a way, in
obedience to God, to how to lovetheir neighbors?
And that definitely had itsroots in the idea of how does

(03:59):
the culture change, how does anation change, culture change,
how does the nature, the nationchange, and what can we do in
our respective ministries and wewere working in two different
ministries, tarot and Food forthe Hungry, and me with Harvest
and we're, you know,independently thinking about.

(04:22):
You know what is God's call onour lives?
To see that cultural changetake place.

Luke Allen (04:34):
Yeah, so you guys both came from that background
in Relief and DevelopmentMinistries and because of that
you weren't seeing the impactthat you were expecting, I guess
, and that was kind of the painpoint yeah it, it wasn't that we
weren't seeing it at all, itwas that it was.

It could be a lot more.
And we had a vision, uh,independently, of seeing that
happen.
Daryl from the perspective ofcontent, ideas and philosophy,
and mine from the perspective ofhow do you empower the local

(05:13):
church to do that.
And it was very interesting.
We were both very involved inteaching and speaking, and, and
one group that was a realrecipient of our teaching both
Darrell's and mine separatelywas a woman by the name of Chris

(05:34):
Colby, who's still very muchinvolved in youth mission, and
she called us both and she saidyou guys have both taught for us
.
I think you should teachtogether.
And we said that sounds great,but we're both too busy to do

(06:02):
that.
And she said no, really, I'mvery serious that you guys your
messages complement each otherCome together.
And our response was we're toobusy.
And she said give me three days.
What do you mean?
Give me three days.
I want to come to Arizonabecause we were both there at

(06:23):
that time and let's pray andfast and see what the Lord does
out of that time.
So you know, we both said, okay, well, we'll figure that out.
So we she came and we gottogether for several days of

(06:44):
prayer and fasting just thethree of us, and at the end of
that time we didn't agree toteach together, except for one
time.
We said, okay, let's give it ashot.
And so there was a course inLatin America and she invited us
to come and teach.

(07:05):
So we did and we both had.
It's really interesting,neither of us had heard one
another teach, but for the firsttime, as we talked together, we

(07:28):
could see the synergy.

Dwight Vogt (07:32):
But you're also friends already, right, bob?
Oh yeah, yeah, that goes wayback.

That goes way, way back.

Yeah, your friendship goes way back.

That's a whole back story, Dwight, that I don't
know if we have time for.

So you were in Peru then, or where was that
teaching in Latin America?

I can't remember whether it was Latin school no
that was in Tyler, Texas.
In Tyler Texas.
Yes, in Tyler Texas.
That was where.

Christine Colby was a bass leader at the time.
Yeah, the first ever.

Yeah, the first time we taught together and
Vishal was there as well, sheactually said Darryl, bob, and
Vishal need to come together howdid

Luke Allen (08:13):
you ever get a word in?

That's a great question, Well it's because
there was a scheduled class, andso we taught for a week
together at this school, but Ihad never, neither of us had
ever, heard each other teach andand and it was.
It was like magic, I mean, allthree messages really fit like

(08:41):
hands and gloves.
And, and so we told Chrisafterwards, okay, let's see what
might happen.
And after that we had anopportunity to teach in Peru, in
Lima, peru, and so we went toLima not Vishal, he wasn't there

(09:05):
with us and we taught with agroup of pastors that had come
in from all over the country.
I'll never forget that one,luke.
There were pastors frommainstream churches, large
churches as well as largechurches as well as country

(09:31):
pastors who had to borrow shoesliterally from the amazon to
come to that conference and somehad walked, as I recall, a
couple of days to get there.
And so you know, we hadn'ttaught together before, except
for that one time in Tyler,texas.
But the Holy Spirit was clearlythere and spoke to these

(09:58):
sophisticated pastors ofseminary training as well as to
the jungle pastors seminarytraining as well as to the
jungle pastors and I was amazedto see that this message,
especially Darrell's message onworldview, was presented so
simply that even these formerlyuneducated pastors from the

(10:24):
Amazon jungle in Peru couldunderstand and respond.
It was absolutely amazing.
Well, those were the first twoconferences and then, it spread
to Africa from there and wereally didn't think of forming

(10:46):
an organization.
It was just we were teachingtogether and a message that and
Daryl often said, I give you theideas.
If you want to know how toimplement it, you've got to talk
to Bob.
If you want to know how toimplement it, you've got to talk

(11:06):
to Bob.

Luke Allen (11:12):
And so it was that sort of combination of the
theory and the application andit was after we had done that
for some time that we began totalk about how could we do this
formally together, gotcha, wow,that's really helpful and it's
cool because that's still theway that our basic training is
outlined with On the front endof the Kingdomizer training

(11:32):
program.
We have the theory and theworldview and why these ideas
matter, and then, right afterthat, is your course on how to
apply this, and I remember thefirst time I went through it.
I had all these ideas in myhead after hearing Darrow speak,
and dad as well, on worldviewand, oh my gosh, this is
life-changing, paradigm shifting.
But now what?
And then you step in.
Here's some simple things youcan do.

(11:54):
I love that and, yeah, thattraining remains the same today.
So Vishal Mangowati and ChrisColby shout out to them for
getting this thing going andpushing you guys a little bit to
to get this going.
We'll have to send them thisepisode well, it wasn't.

It wasn't a look that we didn't want to get
together, we were just so busytraveling around the world
teaching that it didn't seemlike we hadn't.
We hadn't contemplatedsynchronizing and doing it
together simultaneously, butChris was the spearhead for that
and now we see what God hasdone through that.

Luke Allen (12:34):
Yeah, dad, you were around during these early vision
conferences, these meetings.
You worked at FH Food for theHungry with Darrow during this
time what year was this?
And what was happening in theworld at this time?
To kind of lay the grounds forthis as well.
Because I know, you know, thisteaching that we do is not

(12:54):
exactly new in church history byany means, but it really struck
a chord at that time and seemsto continue to strike a chord,
and I think God has just placedthis message on our hearts
during this time for a specificreason.
It's not a new message again,but he just, you know, has
revised it, given it to us, andwe're speaking into our cultural
moment.
So could you give us a littlehistory there, dan?

Yeah, I can talk a little bit about, kind of fill
in some of the gaps there.
From Bob's recollection Iactually wasn't at that
conference at Tyler Texas.
I was working at Food for theHungry and working very closely
with Darrow at the time.
And it's interesting, darrowwas one of the executives at
Food for the Hungry but he waspretty much marginalized and

(13:38):
sidelined at that time.
I can explain why, and so hispassion was to teach and train
people to think biblically in away that laid a foundation for
human flourishing anddevelopment and you would think
that would resonate in FH.
I'll explain why it didn't in asecond.
So he was out teaching, mainlyoutside of Food for the Hungry

(14:02):
in places like Tyler Texas withYouth with a Mission, mainly
outside of Food for the Hungryin places like Tyler Texas with
Youth with a Mission.
He had some permission to dothat but he was kind of
marginalized At the time.
The broader context beyond Foodfor the Hungry in missions that
I recall was that missions wasvery divided between two groups.
One group was kind of Christianrelief and development group

(14:24):
organizations like World Visionand Food for the Hungry, and our
focus and emphasis was onpoverty alleviation and these
groups tended to be verytechnical in their orientation.
You know if we can do X numberof projects and we have a lot of
you know data.
Big money was involved in it,which is really actually quite

(14:47):
ironic because just right now,president Trump in the United
States has just rescindedgovernment funding of groups
like USAID, and that was a hugedebate in Food for the Hungry.
At that time, we were receivingmillions of dollars from USAID
and people like Dara were saying.
You know, this isn't just moneywith no strings attached.
This comes with a worldview,this kind of secular

(15:10):
enlightenment, rationalisticworldview, that really doesn't
have any—it's very differentthan a biblical approach.
If you take a strictly biblicalapproach to poverty fighting,
you don't end up with thisstrictly rationalist kind of,
you know, technical approach.
But the mindset of theChristians in Food for the
Hungry at the time was very muchsacred secular.

Luke Allen (15:32):
When was this again?
This was you know, this was inthe late 90s, you know pretty
much, you know.

So, yeah you know, we're Christians, we pray in the
morning and then we go docommunity development work in
the same way that secularorganizations do it, and that's
fine.
You know, community developmentis a secular, technical kind of
thing, and if we get money fromthe government, that's fine.
And Dara was saying no, thereisn't a separation.

(15:59):
We need to be thinkingbiblically about how we do
community development.
And so there was that debategoing on inside FH.
And then on the other side youhad Christian mission
organizations and their focuswas almost entirely on church
planting.
How do we get churches plantedin unreached people groups and

(16:20):
get people saved?
That was what they were focusedentirely on.
Talk about poverty alleviation,they didn't like that because
that seemed to them to be kindof a distraction from this
primary goal of getting peoplesaved.
And so that was the broadercontext.
There was literally twodifferent networks in the United
States, one for the churchplanters and evangelists

(16:44):
organization type organizations,and the other for Christian
relief and development, and theydidn't like each other very
well.
They didn't connect very much.
So that's the broader context.
And anyways, bringing it up tothe point where the DNA was
formed, this was 1997, and thepresident at the time, randy

(17:07):
Hogue, finally Darrow, and youknow he basically kind of
convinced him that hey, thiswhole secular, usaid-funded
approach to communitydevelopment isn't, this isn't
who we are.
And there was a whole effort inFH to kind of reform ourselves
based on Christian vision andmission.

(17:28):
What did we call it, dwight?
There was this whole vision ofa community.
I guess Christian community.
And out of that, darrow or,excuse me, randy the president
went to Darrow and said Darrow,why don't you take what you've
been teaching outside of FH andbring it right into the heart of
what we're doing?
And let's start with the waythat we work with local churches

(17:54):
in these impoverishedcommunities that we're working
in, because clearly the localchurch is central to seeing
change, positive change.
And so we invited Bob to cometo.
Because Bob was working withlocal churches and had a
teaching for local churches, weinvited him to come and join us
in the Philippines for aconference and when we heard Bob

(18:16):
talk about a biblical approachto poverty fighting and the
central role of the local church, we realized we had been doing
it wrong.
These are the leaders and thecountry directors of FH.
Randy led us in a moment ofrepentance over our unbiblical
approach towards povertyfighting, especially as it
related to the local church.

(18:37):
And then, from that point,randy went to Darrow and myself,
essentially on the FH side, andsaid we need to change, start
something new, start somethingwith local churches in our
fields that will empower themwith biblical truth in a way
that they take the leadership inseeing positive change in their
communities and it isn'treliant on huge grants of money

(19:01):
from USAID and technicalknow-how.
You know this secular approachto development.
So he gave space to that.
And then we went to Bob andsaid, bob, let's work together.
And that gave rise to theVision Conference in Peru that
you spoke of, the very first onewe did.

Luke Allen (19:19):
Yeah, shout out to Randy Hogue as well.
He was an integral part of thiswhole process as well.

Very integral, yeah .

Luke Allen (19:25):
I'll link the episode that we did with him a
little while back in thedescription If you guys want to
listen to that.
In the during that episode wetalk about some of those early
discussions where he kind ofgave the green light to Darrow
and, uh, uh, my dad and theother guys to get this thing
rolling.
Uh, during his time as thepresident of food for the Hungry
Dwight, you were at a couple ofthose very, very early on

(19:47):
vision conferences.
What were those?
Like Bob was just sharing that.
It was clearly the Holy Spiritwas moving.
The messages were reachingpeople from all different walks
of society.
What was your general takeawayfrom those?
Share us a story.

Yeah, I think it was.
I'm thinking about Randy andhis journey and what shaped his
thinking and Bob and histhinking and Darrow.
And I remember, bob, the firsttime we met, I rode with you on
a bus up to northern Thailand inAugust, I think, of 1980.
Way, way before any of thishappened.

(20:25):
And you were talking about adiscipleship and the little book
you were writing on disciplingthe church, and it was so
different and I thought, well, Ihope you sell.
That's really different, bob.
That's just you know.
And your ideas of discipleshipwere surrounded by loving your
neighbor and loving God.
And I'm thinking, well, that'syou know.

(20:46):
I guess that's you know anyway,I might be Christian.
Yeah, I might be Christian, itjust didn't, you know.
You know where's all thetheology there, you know.
Anyway, it was brilliant and sothat's.
But I remember just wrestlingwith ideas because of you and my
exposure to you and to Darrelland to others, and Food for
Hungry, and I too was wrestlingwith what are we doing?

(21:09):
What are we doing?
What are we doing?
You know what's going on here.
And I remember the first timethat I remember sitting down in
the FH office and we had decidedthat we were going to, as an
organization, support this ideaa little bit at least that's
what Randy was talking and youand Daryl came into the

(21:31):
boardroom for three days andshared the Vision Conference
content with us, and you werethere not to convince us but to
ask us for our critique, and itwas a select group of staff
Maybe, scott, you were in theretoo.
I was there, steve Corbett, andwe were supposed to critique
you in terms of your deliveryand how you were, how it was
formatted, and then one ideajumped to the next.

(21:53):
Did it structure well?
And I remember just thinking Idon't really care.
This is just gripping my heart.
And and I remember gettingemotional at times just
listening to you guys becauseI'd struggled with all these
ideas and I just thought this is, this is gold.
You know, I remember thefeeling I had in those three

(22:14):
days in that boardroom long,long days and uh.
And then I got the privilege ofattending some conferences with
you and Darrell outside inIndonesia and northeast Thailand
and different places.
Had the same experience againand again, but that was mine.

Luke Allen (22:31):
I had been wrestling with the ideas and all once I
heard them combined and I wasjust like, oh my goodness, this
is cool yeah, and for people whohave gone through some of our
training, they'll know a littlebit of what you're talking about
there, dwight.
But for anyone newer who hasn'tgone through some of our
training, they'll know a littlebit of what you're talking about
there, dwight.
But for anyone newer who hasn'tgone through the Kingdomizer
program, any of our basiccourses here at the Disciple
Nations Alliance, bob, what wasthe general thrust of those

(22:53):
early teachings?
What was the gold there thatGod had kind of placed on your
heart and Darrow's heart duringthose first years?

Well, let me preface.

Luke Allen (23:03):
That's a big question, I know, but if you
could give us a synopsis, yeah.

I want to preface that by saying one of the things
that really grabbed my heartwas that most of the pastors and
leaders that we were talking towere not sophisticated people.
They were simple, primarilyrural or economically depressed

(23:37):
areas of urban areas, and thesewere people that were really
hungry for an answer and Irealized then the importance of
taking what was really a verycomplex issue.
When you talk about humandevelopment, physical

(24:01):
development, you know of aculture.
I mean, this is really complex,but I knew and sensed that we
couldn't present it in a complexway.
The principle of KISS keep itsimple, stupid was really

(24:24):
important, and I can rememberwhen we first started with
Harvest and some of our staffwere criticizing us me for
looking at human development toosimplistically.
They had been at a universitytaking courses in human

(24:47):
development and looked at the 40or 50, some categories of
Maslow's hierarchy of needs andhow in the world do you, do you
make that simple?
Well, I think Dr Luke made itsimple for us and Jesus
developed in wisdom and staturein favor with God and man and

(25:10):
you can boil all of Maslow'scomplex presentation of the
anatomy of human need down intovery simple terms.
So I realized that the ideasthat were presented needed to be

(25:30):
presented in a way that couldbe comprehended by even the most
simple people in the village,and so we really worked at that,
trying to help pastorsunderstand that God is the one
who heals the culture.

(25:50):
You're not, but his promise toheal is based on your
application of his will to thedegree that you understand it in
your context.
And so you know, we began totry to write curriculum and

(26:13):
presentations that took thesecomplex issues and made them
understandable at the villagelevel.
Of our perspective, andparticularly mine, in trying to

(26:36):
help very simple pastorsunderstand that the way forward
is not complex.
It's a matter of being obedientto what God has called you and
your people to do, which is loveyour neighbor and not wait for
outside resources to do it.
Use what you already have inyour hand and give those to God

(26:57):
and sacrificially serve in yourcommunity.
And as we went along for anumber of years, we've seen
incredible examples of what Godhas done with this.
I just got a report Let me justtalk a little bit about this

(27:19):
Yesterday from one of thepastors.
He wasn't even a pastor, he wasjust a teenage member of a
six-member church, and he cameback from our conference and the
pastor said well, what did youlearn?

This was in Nairobi , wasn't it Bob?
It was in Nairobi, yeah.

And the pastor said what did you learn?
He said we need to use ourresources to bless the community
.
And the pastor said nice,you're unemployed.
I'm the only part-time employedperson in our whole little

(28:02):
church, so what are we supposedto do?
He asked that sarcastically toMeshach, this young guy, and he
said well, they taught us theway we start is to pray and ask
God.
Beth said okay, let's do that.
So they got together and theyprayed and they heard a bunch of
little children running aroundoutside this 10 by 10 foot

(28:26):
building where they held church.
I mean really small Talk abouta held church.
I mean really small Talk abouta small church.
And together these peoplethought you know what?
We don't have any trainedpastors, any trained teachers.
But Meshack, you can read andwrite, you know how to do math,

(28:50):
you're a good student.
Why don't you offer to be ateacher to these kids who aren't
in school?
Well, that turned into anamazing school which has since
grown into a secondary school.
I just got a report yesterday,two days ago, of this school,

(29:10):
which is now 24 years old, wherethey now have community leaders
, national leaders, who aregraduates of this school.
They've started a number ofother schools, and it's that
seeing these simple ideasmultiply and grow into impacts

(29:37):
that have a true impact on theculture.
Yeah.
It's an illustration of thetruth of what we've been
teaching.
You don't always see it at thebeginning.
This report that I got is 24years after the secondary school
had been started, so theevidence is in the pudding.

(30:00):
I mean, you start, you watch itgrow, you wonder if anything's
going to happen and then, whenyou let it cook long enough, you
see God's hand ofmultiplication, which is clearly
supernatural.

Luke Allen (30:21):
Yeah, it's a fun season at the DNA right now
because DNA's been going almost30 years now and we're starting
to get these reports back fromthose early vision conferences,
conferences and those small seedprojects that people decided to
do coming away from thoseconferences and the impacts that
some of those can have.
You know, time multiplied isincredible, just to watch the

(30:44):
way that God can do the smallaction, the small decision from
a guy like Meshack.
decision from a guy like Meshack.
I'm guessing that the teachingthat he heard from you that week
was something along the linesof your church is a window
teaching.

Yes.

Luke Allen (30:59):
Okay, would you mind just summarizing that for
people, because the church isthe window.
Teaching from Bob Moffitt isactually the story behind our
logo.
At the DNA we have that windowas a logo.
So if you're wondering wherethat came from.
That came from Bob.

The window has four panes.
Yep.
And they each represent one ofthe categories of Luke 2.52.
Wisdom, physical, spiritual andsocial.
And in my teaching you havebroken man on one side of the

(31:34):
window and the other side of thewindow, through which broken
man sees God's intentions, areGod's intentions for flourishing
and peace and abundance and allof that kind of thing.
And the window has four panesand the window is the church,

(32:01):
god's people, and it's as brokenpeople in a community look
through the window of the churchwhich has those four panes,
they can see God's intentionsfor the future, not only in
eternity but now.
But if the window is cracked ordirty, which I show is the

(32:30):
church's disobedience to God'saction and his desires in those
four categories, broken peoplehave a difficult time seeing and
or believing that God caresabout those areas.
But if we clean the window bybeing active in demonstrating

(32:53):
God's love in all areas of life,then the broken people of the
community can see and begin tounderstand and desire the
healing that comes when we abideby God's instructions in the
wisdom, physical, spiritual andsocial areas of life.

(33:17):
And so that's the window, thechurch is the window.
And when the windows are dirty,who's to blame?
We are, because we haven't beenobedient in all the areas that

(33:38):
God calls us to be obedient in,and to.
So what's the solution?
Obedience, beginning to abideby God's instructions in all
those areas.

Luke Allen (33:52):
That's about as simple as I can make it.
That's great.
I love that.
That was a great refresher forme.
I haven't heard that in a while.
It's always good to rememberthat.
Dad, during these same yearsthere was a split, that happened
and the DNA decided to becomeits own organization, branch off
from Food for the Hungry.

(34:12):
That, I believe, was mainly ledby you, and you took up the
role of the president of theDisciple Nations Alliance.
Twofold question here.
One, if you could just answerthe same question I just asked,
bob what was at the heart ofthat key teaching that God
placed on your guys' hearts andminds during this time?
If you could give a littlesummary of that and then you

(34:33):
know.
Part two if you could justconnect the dots to the DNA
becoming an organization.

Well, just to underscore the importance of
what Bob was saying, you know,our vision at the beginning was
to see local churches, the localbody of Christ in these very
impoverished communities,empowered to begin the process
of seeing positive change intheir community with their own
resources.
And there were so many barriersto that.

(35:02):
You know, they had a mindsetthat, first of all, our job as
Christians is simply to getpeople saved and into our
building.
That's it, you know, is simplyto get people saved and into our
building.
That's it.
You know.
Poverty, brokenness, these otherwindow panes that Bob was
talking about are not ourconcern, so they weren't
addressing them, even thoughthey lived in context of poverty
.
And on the other side, you hadChristian relief and development

(35:23):
organizations coming in andsaying essentially yeah, you are
poor, there's almost nothingyou can do to help yourselves.
That's our job, these Westerntechnical enlightenment people
with our big projects and bigmoney.
So both of those things had theeffect of disempowering local
people and our conviction was no, that's got to change, We've

(35:45):
got to empower the body ofChrist.
Listen, the church has led toflourishing and development all
over the world from the time ofthe Reformation and even before,
without lots of money.
Right, it was biblical teaching, but we've lost sight of it,
and so we've got to get back tothis core biblical teaching and

(36:05):
discipleship that empowerspeople, and the genius of what
Bob brought was that it gavepeople something to do like.
It gave them a window fromwhich to see a new way of
thinking about ministry and thendo something with it that
empowered them.
Start that school, you know,with what you have.
You know literally just thelittle that you have, and watch

(36:27):
how God will begin to grow andmultiply that, and we've seen
that over and over.
And that was really the heartyou know of the DNA, but I would
say on the other side thatDarrell kind of represented and
you know this was more of myheart too it was.
We just recognized that thepower to see change in the world

(36:47):
came about when Christianshistorically told the whole
story.
Change in the world came aboutwhen Christians historically
told the whole story creation,fall, redemption, consummation
and understood that that was acomprehensive worldview that
described what it meant to behuman and what human purpose was
and what God's intentions were,and all of this.
There's this beautiful storyand furthermore, every nation

(37:09):
operates out of its own storyand if it's not the biblical
story, it's a false story.
It's an animistic or a secularstory that leads to brokenness
and poverty and all sorts ofproblems.
The problem was the church,largely in Christian missions
and relief and development werenot telling the whole story.
The Christian missions side wasreally just focusing in on the

(37:34):
message of salvation, which is apart of our story, but it's not
the whole story by any stretch.
Its message was get saved andget into the church full stop.

And on the other side it wasn't—.

Yeah, and the other side wasn't telling the full
story, it wasn't even trying.
It was yeah, you know, we wantto see people that are poor
helped.
That's biblical.
But how we do it was entirelysecular, you know, and they were
fine with that, you know, aslong as we prayed in the morning
and whatnot, you know.
So neither of these sides,these groups, were telling the

(38:09):
biblical story that leads totransformation.
That was our conviction.
So Darrow would do this teaching.
One of the most powerfulteachings he did was called the
transforming story, where heliterally started by going all
the way back to Genesis andstarted talking about how God
created the heavens and theearth and then he created man in
his image, with dignity, maleand female, and then gave them

(38:34):
this capacity to develop theworld, to create, you know, to
have dominion.
And he'd often stop as he wastelling this story and he'd say
is that good news?
Because when Christians thinkof good news, we always think of
gospel, salvation.
And the answer was always yeah,that's really good news, you
know, for impoverishedcommunities, are we telling that

(38:56):
good news, right?
Or you know?
And then he would tell thewhole story, you know, all the
way through to the end, and he'dsay this is a true story, this
is the story that leads totransformation for everybody.
But then he would say but we'reonly telling the central part
of the story, the Gospels.
And he would literally take abook and he'd rip part of it out

(39:17):
and he'd say we throw the restof this book away and we're only
bringing the Gospels to thenations and saying this is all
you need, is this message ofsalvation.
Meanwhile, you're strugglingwith poverty because you're
functioning from a differentstory, an animistic, a
fatalistic, secular, whateverstory it may be, but you've got

(39:37):
your gospel.
He says we've got to put thegospel back into this full story
and tell the entire story.
And then the goal isn't to getpeople saved, that's more of a
means to an end.
The end is to see nationsflourishing and developing and
blessed nations, disciplednations is really what God wants
to see.
And yeah, that doesn't happen,apart from salvation and

(40:01):
regeneration.
But you've got to tell thewhole story.
So that had a huge impact onpeople because, especially this
is something I don't think wesaw at the beginning
impoverished people didn't knowthat whole story.
They had only been taught thatthe gospel was just this message
of salvation and essentiallythat you know all of this

(40:23):
poverty and corruption andbrokenness that you're living in
, god doesn't really care about.
You just need to get morepeople saved.
And they knew that that waswrong.
Like somehow the greatcommission couldn't just be I'm
saved and living in utterpoverty, like that just wasn't
right.
And they knew that but theydidn't know.
You know, it was the messagethat daryl brought and bob
together that helped them to seeit like oh, this is what we're

(40:46):
missing, we're missing thiswhole story.
And when they heard that, theyfelt so empowered, like this is
what the mission is.
The mission of the church isentirely different than what I
thought it was.
It isn't just getting peoplesaved, it's telling this whole
story and living it out inpractical ways that bring
positive change.
That's what God wants, that'swhat he desires.

(41:09):
And that was so empowering tothem that you just saw it.
You just saw it in their eyes,you just saw this hope kind of
well up, and then they wouldjust run with that message.
So that was really, I think, insome ways the thing that really
launched it.
It was just this kind of we'vegot to reframe the mission.

(41:29):
We're not telling the wholestory.
Just this kind of.
We've got to reframe themission.
We're not telling the wholestory.
On one side you've got thissecular, technical community
development story that's verymoney centric, that's very
Western, and then on the otherside you've got this sacred,
secular, very Gnostic storythat's just get saved, get them
into churches, but nobody'stelling the whole story.
So it was like let's get backto telling that whole story.

Luke Allen (41:50):
That was very much part of the dna yep, and then
that that I mean eventually thatled you guys to create this.
You know the dna is anorganization, but we like to say
it's a movement, because itreally is um and uh.
When did that happen?
How did that happen, thatlittle yeah?

well, we got the space back to you know, the
space and permission from Randyto launch this teaching, and we
started with Food for the HungryFields.
In other words, we went out toour country directors in the 30
or 50 countries that Food forthe Hungry was working in and we
said, hey, would you mind?
We've got a teaching we want todeliver to the church on
biblical worldview verypractically apply that was the

(42:30):
Bob Moffitt side of it in a waythat will lead to the beginning
of a movement of transformationin impoverished communities.
Would you mind organizing yourpastors and church leaders in
Kampala or in Myanmar orwherever it will happen to be in
Mozambique?
You know, 2030 doesn't have tobe big, we just bring them

(42:53):
together.
We'd like to share thisteaching and many of the country
directors did that and so wedid.
You know, our first conferencesthat deliver this teaching and
application were in those fieldsand very often the way that it
went is that people in thoseconferences, you know, there was
always a handful of people thatjust were literally transformed

(43:16):
.
It just completely changedtheir paradigm and they
committed their lives tofurthering the teaching and then
over time, those people becameessentially the next generation
of trainers, and these wereindigenous peoples from many
different countries in Africa,asia, latin America.
But they didn't work at FH,they weren't employees of FH,

(43:40):
they were pastors or they workedin church mission organizations
or businesses.
So back to Food for the Hungry.
Over time, even though we hadthe space and the permission to
do this training, people beganto look inside of Food for the
Hungry, going how come you'reworking with all these people
who aren't even employees ofFood for the Hungry?
What exactly are you doing?

(44:01):
And we realized that, eventhough Food for the Hungry gave
birth to this, to a large degree, it wasn't a good fit to this.
To a large degree it wasn't agood fit and that if we were
going to continue to really runwith this, we needed to set up
an organization that had this asits own vision from the very
foundation.
So we got permission from theleadership of Food for the

(44:23):
Hungry essentially to start anew organization that had as its
exclusive focus this trainingand didn't do things like child
sponsorship and all the otherthings that Food for the Hungry
was doing.
And so that kind of was thelaunch of the DNA as an
organization.
It was supported by Food forthe Hungry, encouraged by Food

(44:48):
for the Hungry.

Luke Allen (44:48):
Yeah yeah, I'm curious, dwight, I'll get to you
in a second.
But for Bob, one thing that Ithink is clearly the Holy Spirit
working through the DiscipleNations Alliance since day one
is the fact that the people youguys are speaking to come from
all different kinds ofbackgrounds.
We're talking third world tofirst world, usually third world
in the beginning, you know,indigenous people from the city,

(45:13):
all different classes,demographics, and then also very
interdenominational, which Ialways thought was fascinating.
A lot of times these kind ofmovements of Christians tend to
stay relatively withindenominational lines, but one, I
mean Darrow, always likes toshare that story of one time I
think he was teaching in EasternAsia or Eastern um Europe and

(45:35):
he had pretty much everydenomination there.
And at that time in thatcountry there was a lot of
infighting amongst um.
You know the.
I don't exactly know whatdonations they were, but you
know we're the church, we allknow how that works.

And yet by the end of the week, guys were all
sitting together, prayingtogether.
Um, not only did they cometogether, they, they repented
publicly together of thedivision.
Uh and uh and it was.
It was a holy spirit event tosee that confession, asking for

(46:13):
forgiveness, pastors fromopposite ends of the theological
spectrum coming together,crying, hugging each other, and
I mean that was a transformativemoment in itself.
I remember that meeting veryclearly.

Luke Allen (46:32):
Where was that?
I'm just curious.
I was in Uzbekistan in Tashkent, outside of Tashkent,
interesting I know a lot ofpeople when they hear you know,
oh, you guys are speaking to allthe denominations.
You must water down yourtheology.
I don't think we do.
Why does this message reach somany different people?

That's for you, bob .
I'm just curious.
It's the truth, and the truthresonates.

I mean, yeah, we're talking about basic things, you
know.
God created man in his image.
God created everything.
God created man to havedominion.
You know the messages are.
They're kind of mereChristianity, as CS Lewis would
call it, but people have kind oflost the sight of it, you know,
in kind of their emphasis onthis or that.

Yeah, they've lost the sight of the complexity.
They've lost the sight of thesimpleness.
The simpleness, exactly, andthey focus on the complexity
rather than the basics.

Yeah, there's this kind of focus on this or that
doctrinal difference over thingslike baptism.
And what we were saying is, hey, let's step back a little bit.
Who is the church and what'sthe role?
What does God want the churchto be doing?
You know, what's the mission ofthe church?
Some much more basic kind ofquestions.
And that's where people wereable to kind of find some unity.
You know, let's put aside someof these issues about this or

(48:01):
that eschatology or doctrine ofbaptism or role of the Holy
Spirit, you know, and just getback to basic mission, purpose
and mission of the church.
And then they found, oh gosh,we actually have a lot in common
.

We believe that.

Luke Allen (48:16):
I love that.
That's great.

Go ahead.

I think one of the things that struck me and I was
on the other side of the fencein Food for Lunger, I was always
on the program side, trying touse science to fix people's
problems, as you would say, onthe program side, trying to use
science to fix people's problems, he would say, but I was always
thinking and pondering.
And so when Darrow talked aboutideas have consequences, and he
painted animistic ideas and hepainted naturalistic,

(48:44):
materialistic, humanistic,atheistic ideas, secular ideas,
all those were the same.
And then he would paint, um,you know, theistic ideas?
Um, people would go, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's, that's how we
think, that's how we think thoseare really different ideas with
really different outcomes orconsequences.
Yeah, you go, wow this one leadsto fatalism.

(49:05):
This one leads to death.
This one leads to Libertylicense not Liberty.
You know, this one leads toselfishness and corruption and
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you know, and thenDarrell saying but but there's a
God's way.
And then Bob steps in, he goesokay, let me tell you God's
intentions.
He said here's God's intentionsfor human beings.

(49:27):
It's not an animistic view,it's not a materialistic view.
It's God's view and you need tounpack Luke 2 5252.
God grew in these four areas.
Jesus grew in these four areas.
Doesn't he want us to grow inthose four areas?
Isn't this his will for ourlives?
Are we focused on this?
Are we loving each other in away that goes this direction?
Well, that's actuallydiscipleship.

And then one other big aha on.
That was you know, bob, youalways People were just like
wait wait, wait, wait, wait.

This can't be.
No, no, it makes too much sense.
It's almost like this is whatthe Bible's about to help us
become the human beings that Godmade us to be.

I think a big aha for a lot of us in FH2 is that,
you know, look at Jesus.
Would you call Jesus the mostperfectly developed human being
ever to live, right, you know?
Yes, well, what you know he was, what did he have?
What made him developed?
It wasn't that he had, you know, a PhD from Princeton

(50:21):
University and a lot of money.
You know he was a, so it justgot our.
It was just a very you know.
And if Jesus, this simple guycarpenter, lived, you know,
didn't have any advancededucation.
And if Jesus, this simple guycarpenter, lived, you know,
didn't have any advancededucation, had a good family,
right, probably wasn't starvingor hungry, but, you know, didn't
have an abundance of anything,if he can be the most perfectly
developed, so can you, you know.
Anyways, I always love that.

It's just so basic, because I mean basic
anthropology, basic economics.
It was all there in the BibleTogether.
You had a way of saying here'swhat Darrell raised the
questions in my mind and Bobanswered them.

This is one of my real convictions Ide ideas have
consequences if they're applied,and one of the basic problems
in many of our churches is wehave the idea but we don't live

(51:28):
it out, we don't apply it and,as a consequence, there's no
change.

Yeah, and if I could just underscore that, bob,
you know in the West you knowIsaac just finished my son,
other son just finished seminaryand you know they were big-time
emphasis on kind of the headknowledge of a doctrine like
love and you could explain thatwhat it was and have a clear
biblical understanding.
There was a lot of emphasis onthat.

(51:54):
Can you explain it?
But, like you were saying, itdoesn't matter unless you
actually kind of live it out.
Right, if you have a correcthead knowledge of this but don't
live a loving lifestyle, youdon't know love.
And that was your big emphasis,bob was like you can't separate
knowledge of this from livingit out Like they don't.

(52:17):
They just biblically you justcan't separate those things.

But many in the church do in practice and and
they wonder why isn't somethinghappening?
And I think the a large part ofthe answer is is because you're
not doing what it means to loveyour neighbor.
You've got to put it intoaction if you want to see the

(52:48):
results you think are going tohappen if we think in the right
way.

And that tied into our worldview message too,
because we often said worldviewis proven not by what you have
in your brain or what answersyou might give to questions.
The world, your personal,actual worldview, what you
actually believe the world islike, is proven by what you do
how you live the choices thatyou make.
That's the proof of yourworldview.

(53:18):
So you can have a lot ofChristians say say, I'm a
christian, but they live their.
Their functional worldview isvery secular or very animistic.
So we would say that's you know, that that is your worldview.

Luke Allen (53:29):
Your world is proven by your actions hmm, yeah,
sorry, I have four questions Iwant to ask at the same time.
I'll edit this part out 54.
Yeah, bob, just over the years.

(53:53):
I'd love to hear one more storyof someone that's really taken
this, teaching, like you said,got the ideas and then did
something about them and has hadconsequences on bringing the
kingdom of God to theircommunity.

Well, the first story that comes to my mind is a
young man who was in a class of30 pastors that I was teaching.
I don't even remember him.
He tells me he was there.
I believe him, and he called meone day, a couple of years

(54:30):
after, after attending thisclass, and he said you know,
I've been applying these simplethings in our congregation.

(54:53):
They gathered coal and took itto the really poor people living
in yurts on the outside ofUlaanbaatar.
They took clothes, they went tothe river, they picked up trash
, things that they could do withtheir own resources, but they
also saw God supernaturallyintervene as they were using

(55:17):
their own resources.
One example I never forget iswhere they were bringing heat
and coal in the wintertime.
Some guy pulled up with a bigtruck and said who are you guys?
What are you doing?
They told him and he said Well,I'm not a Christian, but how

(55:39):
would you like me to bring atruckload of coal for free and
dump it here on the outskirts ofthis community and you can
distribute it?
And he said I've seen that kindof thing happen in our church
and I want to see this happenall over Mongolia.

(56:00):
Would you mentor me".
That was 15 years ago.
The class was like almost 20years ago and I said, yeah, but
you're in Mongolia, I'm in theUnited States.

(56:21):
So we decided to touch basewith each other once a week and
we've been doing that for 15years.
This young guy has a vision forhis nation.
Almost more than anybody elseI've ever met, he wants to see
the King of God come to Mongoliaand he's dedicated himself

(56:46):
since that time to teach andmentor other pastors, other men
who are not even believers, andhis life story is absolutely
amazing.
And his life story isabsolutely amazing and he's

(57:10):
impacting pastors all overMongolia, helping them to see
that discipleship is not justScripture memorization, it's
becoming like Jesus and thatmeans living sacrificially among
those around you.
And so you know, one of thebenefits, luke, of being in this

(57:36):
ministry for a long time isbeing in it long enough to see
results.
You know, sometimes, you know,in our evangelical background I
come from, the attitude is quick.
Yeah.

(57:57):
You know how do you get peopleexposed to the gospel?
Say the sinner's prayer,baptize them.
You know how do you get peopleexposed to the gospel?
Say the sinners for a baptism,and then we leave them for
somebody else to feed them milkand change their diapers.
Maybe, but it often neverhappens.
Munkus, this young guy inMongolia.

(58:20):
His vision is long-termrelationships where he's willing
to let God set the timetablefor transformation, and so that
would be one story.
There are many, many Luke, butthat's one which throws my heart

(58:45):
.

Luke Allen (58:47):
Yeah, that's a great story.
He truly is discipling hisnation.
In a way he's representingGod's kingdom to those people
everywhere he goes.
I know some people get a littlehung up on that.
You know, bringing the kingdomor representing the kingdom, but
I mean our vision statementhere at the Disciple Nations

(59:08):
Alliance working visionstatement is to see blessed,
thriving nations with keybiblical principles and
definitions deeply embedded intheir foundations, shaping their
institutions, policies andpractices across every area of
society.
And I don't know how else tosummarize that except to say
we're trying to be ambassadorsof God's kingdom to our nations

(59:30):
and through that visionstatement.
So you know that's just asummary of what that means.
Our mission statement here atthe Disciple Nations Alliance,
how we plan to do that is byequipping followers of Jesus
with a biblical worldview,empowering them to build
thriving cultures, communitiesand nations.
Dad, that mission more or lesshasn't changed since day one.

(59:51):
And yet the people that we'vespoken to, our audience you
could say, has changeddramatically since the 90s, the
late 90s, when this all started.
Why do you think God hasshifted that audience a little
bit?
I know a lot of peoplelistening to this podcast are
joining us from the UnitedStates.

(01:00:11):
That's a very different groupof people who are listening to
us, not us.
You guys back in the beginning.
What do you think that shift is?
Why do you think God's madethat shift a little bit?
I'm just curious.

Scott Allen (01:00:27):
I think that a couple of things have happened
in the 28 years since we did ourfirst vision conference.
I think the training that we'vebeen sharing, and now many
others I was just made awarehere a few years ago that World
Vision itself has madeessentially this DNA type of
training, this worldview type oftraining, one of its key

(01:00:51):
strategic focuses.
So this is now it's spreadingall over the developing world
and that's been so exciting.
You know, the church is growingrapidly in a lot of places,
like Brazil, for example justdramatic church growth and it's
been so exciting.
You know, the church is growingrapidly in a lot of places like
Brazil, for example.
It's just dramatic churchgrowth and it's growing at a
time and only God knows what'sgoing to happen with this where
people are really capturing thisunderstanding of what it means

(01:01:13):
to be the church and the missionof the church and this biblical
worldview kind of way ofthinking at the same time.
So there's a lot of excitingthings happening.
However, in the West UnitedStates, canada, europe the
Church not only has beenstruggling but this kind of

(01:01:36):
secular, deeply secularworldview that's become dominant
in Western nations has kind ofmorphed in all sorts of very
dangerous ways now, and I thinkwe're especially seeing that we
saw that kind of in some wayscome to a peak in the United
States over the last 10 yearswith this kind of cultural
Marxism, this woke stuff with.

(01:01:57):
You know, all of a sudden youwere seeing things like just a
dramatic loss of freedom andcensorship and tribalism and
just all sorts of kind of reallydangerous cultural directions,
the destruction of marriage, therise of kind of the sexual
revolution that was beingexported all over the world

(01:02:19):
through government agencies inthe United States and Europe.
And so, you know, for those ofus in the United States, you
know we were being challenged.
I was being challenged bypeople in places like Colombia
and other countries around theworld saying what are you doing?
In your own country, the churchneeds to really be challenging

(01:02:41):
these very destructive anddangerous ideas that are
dominating your culture.
What are you doing?
That's something that Ipersonally have taken to heart,
and you know it's been achallenge for us because, on one
hand, we've always, kind of asa principle, have said we want
to go where there's greatreceptivity to this teaching, a

(01:03:04):
real hunger for it.
You know we don't have to tryto market it right, and that's
been the developing world.
You know, the church in thedeveloping world has been very
receptive, very hungry.
The church in the West muchless so.
So it's not so much beingdriven by a real hunger,
although I do think that'schanging actually right now.
I think this is the excitingmoment that we're in, like right

(01:03:25):
now.
There's a much greater opennessnow because of the destruction
of this kind of this secularworldview that's playing itself
out.
So, yeah, we just want to beworking with other people and
partners and groups to do whatwe can, you know, all over the
world, with churches all overthe world, to try to encourage

(01:03:45):
them to understand the power,the beauty of a biblical
worldview applied and lived outin a way that leads to positive
change and hope.
You know hope, people in theWest need hope.
You know there's just suchhopelessness and despair and the
church is the answer here too.
But it's got to tell that wholestory.
It can't just say come tochurch, get saved.

(01:04:08):
It's got to tell the wholestory because the stories of the
nations have to be changed.
They are destroying the nationsand this false story of the
West has to be changed.
By God's grace it will be.

Luke Allen (01:04:21):
Yeah, I was listening to a Christian leader
he's based out of Californialast week just giving some of
the stats on the amount ofpeople looking at the brokenness
in our society and our culturein the West right now and
looking for hope somewhere else.
A lot of people right now arecoming to Jesus.

Dwight Vogt (01:04:39):
It's amazing.

A lot of people are saying it's a revival.
I'm a little tentative to saythat, but it seems like it.
I just saw last week Biblesales are up for the first time
in the last five, ten years,Just things like that these
statistics coming out, we'lllook back in ten years and see
if it was a true revival basedon the fruit of it.

But something's clearly happening right now.

There's no question revival based on the fruit of it
, but something's clearlyhappening right now.
There's no question.
Yeah, and his call was okay.
We have a lot of youngbelievers in the West.
All of a sudden, Lots of peopleare coming to Jesus.
Who's going to disciple them?
That was his question.
Yes, who's going to disciplethese people?

It's not done here, you know revival needs to lead
to reformation.
Yeah, that discipleship we haveto change.
It can't just be discipleshipin the way that we've typically
thought about it in evangelicalcircles, of just here's how to
read the Bible and witness toyour friends and attend church
on Sunday.
It has to be a discipleshipthat tells the entire story and

(01:05:37):
that expands the good news thatwe have to tell to the nations
beyond just the simple messageof the gospel, as good as that
is, don't misunderstand me.
There's a whole lot of goodnews that we have to tell our
whole story.
So yeah, the conversion is justthe beginning.

Bob Moffitt (01:05:57):
Absolutely right, it's not the end.

That message alone, bob, is so critical, you know,
because the church hasmisunderstood that it's seen's
not the end.
That message alone, bob, is socritical Because the church has
misunderstood that, it's seen itas the end.
That's the end, job done, andwe have to come back and say, no
, that's the beginning of thejob.
The job goes beyond that.
Yeah, that's the fundamentalprerequisite for seeing positive
change.
People have to be changedinwardly, but then they have to

(01:06:24):
have their minds renewed andthey have to live it out in very
practical ways, you know.
So it can't just be job isgetting them saved and into the
pew, no, so we've got to changethe way we see our mission.

Yep, yeah, if you guys go to our website, we have
our a page called our strategyat the DNA, and step one it's we
.
We broke it down to set sevenrough steps, you know, of how to
disciple a nation.
Step one is spiritual,spiritual regeneration.
You have to start there.
Without the Holy Spirit, noneof this is possible, of this is

(01:07:01):
possible.
But then step two is you haveto transform your worldview.
Like we've talked about a bunchtoday is, if you're coming from
a, you know, a postmodernistmindset and you've been educated
in that you know the last 18years of your life and that is
the way you see the world, andthen you become a Christian.
You don't automatically get abiblical worldview.
You have to change your mind,you know, be renewed in your
mind.
So step two is worldview.

(01:07:23):
The next step is your characterand, as we all know, that's a
difficult step as you walk outthe steps of sanctification
after becoming a Christian andthen it goes, and then that, of
course, if your characterchanges, people around you are
going to notice that.
So that's going to bleed outinto your closest, your family
and your friends and yourcommunity, and then from there,

(01:07:43):
if your heart's changed, yourlife's changed and it's changing
the lives and hearts of yourfamily and your community, then
of course that is going to bleedout into different spheres of
society and whether that's yourworkplaces or the civics of your
community the little bit of alarger scale.
And then, as that changes we'veseen this happen before in
history as the cities change andas the communities and the

(01:08:07):
regions change, because peopleare actually living out a
biblical worldview, the way thatGod has given us, the structure
that God has given us to livein, that of course is going to
affect a nation.
We've seen this throughoutchurch history.
So that's the basic kind ofseven steps of how this works.
It's just being obedient.
It's these ideas that are livedout and then have consequences

(01:08:29):
on our lives, families,communities and nations.

And it's never perfect.
It's never complete.
It's not going to be completeuntil Jesus returns.
But it doesn't mean you can'tmake real progress, right now
Yep.

Yeah, that again, we don't know when Jesus is going
to come back.
Jesus doesn't know when he'sgoing to come back, but, as of
now, we've been given ourmarching orders Go and make
disciples of all nations,baptize them, you know.
So we'll do that until the dayhe comes back, or the end of our
lives.
So that's all we have to worryabout is just be fruitful.

(01:09:01):
You know the first of our lives.
So, uh, that's all we have toworry about is, uh, just be
fruitful.
You know the first command ofGenesis.
Um, bob, you've been, uh, you'vebeen, uh, being obedient for
many years now.
Um, some would say you might beentering your fourth quarter of
your life, um, maybe thirdquarter still, but, uh, you know
, you've been able to do a lotin your life.
Um, as you, as you look towardsthe future I mean, you're still

(01:09:25):
so on mission, which I alwaysfind just so encouraging and
inspiring.
You're 80-something now, Ibelieve, and yet you're
passionate.
You're on fire, clearly, forthis.
Tell us a little bit of why.
I mean, most people your age arenot doing what you're doing.
Let's be honest.
I'm just curious why is that?

(01:09:46):
You know, tell us about thispassion that's led you this far,
and then tell us about whereyou hope to see this mission go
in the next few years, as itseems like there's a changing of
the guard from you and Darrowand Vishal and these original
guys.
What do you see the futurepossibly looking like?
Obviously, you know, man canplan his steps or plan his ways,

(01:10:08):
but Lord's going to lead hissteps.
So we don't know the future,but we can take guesses.
So I'm just curious to hearsome of your thoughts.
Those are two questions, firstone yeah, two questions, two big
questions, and we'll wrap it upfrom there, guys.

Okay, I'm in love with Jesus.
I want to be like him more thananything else.
That's my passion.
That's the goal of discipleship.

(01:10:41):
It's not content.
It includes content, but it'snot the goal.
Discipleship, for me, has onegoal and that is helping the
person who is a disciple tobecome more and more like Jesus,

(01:11:04):
and that's a lifetime process.
None of us are perfect.
Even Paul at the end of hislife, in the end of Acts, said
no, it wasn't in Acts, I forgetwhere it was.
He said I have not yet arrived.
This is the Apostle Paul At theend of his life.

(01:11:31):
He didn't feel he'd arrivedbecause he was becoming Lord.
So that's what drives me, andas long as God gives me the,
gives me wisdom and strength, Idon't understand the word

(01:11:57):
retirement.
I don't understand that word.
I never saw in the scripture.
You know people, yes, passingon responsibility definitely,
but thinking you could just kindof sit and enjoy, you know what

(01:12:18):
you have.
I don't see that anywhere inScripture.
And so for me it's not a matterof what quarter of life I'm in,
it's has God given me thestrength to continue?
I need the wisdom to know whatthat means.

(01:12:43):
But whether there's no stoppingpoint.
There's no sitting back in achair or a lazy boy.
It's a matter of doing the mostyou can with what God has given
you, until he takes you home.
Yep.

(01:13:14):
The other question is I hopethat DNA continues to flourish
as an organization, but in myview it doesn't have to, Because
I feel what God has donethrough DNA will continue
whether DNA continues or not.
Because DNA, if it's done right, is implanted as a seed into

(01:13:42):
the heart of those who've takenadvantage of our teaching and
perspective, and that's what DNAis about.
It shapes the life of theorganism that has that DNA.

(01:14:04):
So if people catch this DNA,it's a part of who they are.
They don't need theorganization to continue, but as
long as the organization isaround to continue.

(01:14:27):
But as long as the organizationis around, we can continue to
share and infect you know thepeople who take our message and
live it out.

I hope that answers your question.
Yeah, it does.
Yeah, that's helpful.
Uh, it's fun to occasionallymeet those people whose gods
planted the seed in their heart,and once you have this paradigm
shift that we often talk about,there's no going back you know,
you're gonna see the worlddifferently and you're gonna see
every single area of your lifedifferently, and a lot of people
from there it's like great,thank you guys.
Adios, I'm gonna go do somethingabout this.

(01:15:01):
And we never hear back fromthem until maybe 15 years later.
Occasionally, some of them, youknow, reconnect.
Hey, you know, I just wanted tolet you know that.
You know, that was reallyimpactful on my life 15 years
ago.
It's completely changed the wayI see my life and you know I've
done this and this and thissince then and we're like, oh,
wow, that's amazing.
And of course, we don't reallyneed to hear that, because it's

(01:15:23):
all God's work and he can dowhatever he wants with it.
But it is fun occasionally toreconnect with those people and
just hear what he's doing intheir lives.
It's fun to hear those storiesand you've heard a lot of those
and you've been able to share acouple with us today, which was
encouraging and fun.
This whole discussion was a lotof fun for me.
I learned a bunch.
I hope this was helpful for ouraudience.

(01:15:44):
I have so many more questions Iwas hoping to get to,
especially for you, dad, andDwight as well, but I think
we'll have to save those foranother day.
We are at an hour and 15minutes already, so I hope this
was helpful for everyone.
Any last-minute thoughts?
Dwight, looked like you had athought there.

Dwight Vogt (01:16:02):
I.
I hope this was helpful foreveryone.
Any last-minute thoughts?
Dwight looked like you had athought there.
I'd like to thank Bob just forspeaking into my life.
I was just reflecting on yourserving and loving.
That's the end of discipleship.
That's the goal of discipleship.
I remember when you shared thatin a meeting in Ethiopia and I
walked away and went.

It's that simple keep it simple, stupid.

I love that, dad.
Any last thoughts from you?
Yeah same.

Bob, I just want to really appreciate you.
The DNA wouldn't God wouldn'thave raised up the DNA apart
from you, and I just soappreciate and treasure your
heart and you've been such agood example and a role model to
me and just a shaper of my ownfaith.
So I just want to thank you somuch for all you've done and all

(01:16:56):
that God has done through youand continues to do.

Yeah, yeah, it's been fun to be a part of Excuse
me, I've grown up around the DNA, so this has been part of my
story.
Mr Moffat, you've been a partof my life since day one pretty
much, so it's been super helpfulbeing just naturally discipled
in this my whole life and, uh,wow, talk about impact.

(01:17:25):
Um, just my mindset on life, myworldview, the amount of things
that you guys have taught meand God's taught through you
guys to me is, uh, amazing.
So I thank you guys, but Iultimately thank God for the,
the way that um, he's been, he'sbeen teaching me and training
me in these things, and I hopeto be able to apply them, like
you guys have, and get out of mycomfort zone and actually do

(01:17:49):
something with what I know andnot just let it, you know, puff
up in my mind.
If any of you guys listeningtoday are curious to learn a
little bit more about this coretraining that has really made
the Disciple Nations Alliancethe Disciple Nations Alliance,
this message that God's put onour hearts and minds, step one,

(01:18:09):
if you would like to become apart of this story as well, is
to just go to our website, whereour core resources are housed.
It's called DiscipleNationsorg.
That's our website.
From there you can easily findthis other website, but
CoramDeocom is where we keep allof our courses.

(01:18:30):
Our two kind of basics coursesthat we were talking about today
are called Kingdomizer 101,kingdomizer 102.
Those are led by Darrell Miller, my dad, scott Allen and Bob
Moffitt, and those are prettymuch the same courses, more or
less, that these guys have beenteaching uh since day one.
Uh.
So if you're curious to learn alittle bit more about what
we're talking about today andjust uh, if you'd like to see if
uh, um, God has something toteach you through those, then I

(01:18:54):
would recommend going over toquorumdeocom and signing up
today.
All of our courses are free anduh just highly encourage you
guys to go check those out.
Um, as far as uh this episodegoes, thank you, uh, bob for
joining us today.

If I could just add , you know, while we're talking
about resources, yeah, bob isstill the president of harvest
foundation, which yeah, right,yeah so, yeah, I just you don't
want to shoot people over to theharvest foundationorg.
Is that correct, bob?
Correct, yeah, because there'sjust a number of resources that
you can avail yourselves ofthere as well, great resources.

Yeah, absolutely.
I will have all of that linkedin the episode page which you
can find in the description.
Bob Dad Dwight.
Thank you so much for your timetoday.
Really enjoyed the discussion.

You're welcome, bye-bye.
Yeah, and for all of you guyslistening, thank you so much for
your time today.
Really enjoyed the discussion.
You're welcome, bye-bye.

Yeah, and for all of you guys listening, thank you
for your time.
As always, listening to anotherepisode of Ideas have
Consequences.
The podcast of the DiscipleNations Alliance.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Our Story: The Genesis of Disciple Nations Alliance | Bob Moffitt