Auction House Secrets: Inside the World of Fine Art and Antiques

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Step into the fascinating world of high-end auctions with Jacob Codner, a fourth-generation art dealer and third-generation auctioneer who's transforming how we experience the buying and selling of precious objects. Jacob shares the remarkable journey that began in his childhood, holding antiques at his father's auction house and evolving into his current role as managing partner of Market Auctions Inc.

What makes an auction house thrive in today's digital marketplace? Jacob reveals the delicate balance between tradition and innovation that drives his business. From the strategic valuing of fine art based on dimensions, subject matter, and artist recognition to the meticulous authentication process for luxury goods, his insider perspective illuminates the complexities behind determining what something is truly worth. The conversation takes us behind the scenes of the headline-making Tekashi69 auction, where Jacob's team cataloged over 7,000 diamonds on a single piece and managed an unprecedented influx of 3,000 first-time bidders.

Beyond the mechanics of the auction world, Jacob offers thoughtful reflections on the emotional connections we form with objects that have stories and histories. His passion for "creating something or resurrecting something" speaks to the deeper meaning of his work – preserving cultural artifacts that might otherwise be forgotten or discarded. Whether he's discussing the surprising six-figure value of vintage Louis Vuitton trunks or explaining why counterfeit luxury goods will never match the real thing, Jacob's expertise and enthusiasm are equally captivating.

Ready to experience the excitement of a live auction? Jacob is on a mission to make auctions socially engaging events again, creating "date nights at the auction" complete with drinks, catering, and the thrill of potential discovery. Follow his journey via Market Auctions' website and social channels to participate in their monthly online sales or attend one of their special in-person events. Who knows what treasures you might find?

Learn more at:
https://twinteriors.com/podcast/

https://scottwoolley.com

Episode Transcript

Voice Over (00:00):
This is iDesign Lab, a podcast where creativity and
curiosity meet style and design.
Curator of interiors,furnishings and lifestyles.
Hosted by Tiffany Woolley, aninterior designer and a style
enthusiast, along with herserial entrepreneur husband
Scott, idesign Lab is yourultimate design podcast where we
explore the rich and vibrantworld of design and its constant

(00:23):
evolution in style and trends.
Idesign Lab provides industryinsight, discussing the latest
trends, styles and everything inbetween to better help you
style your life, through advicefrom trendsetters, designers,
influencers, innovators,fabricators and manufacturers,
as well as personal stories thatinspire, motivate and excite.

(00:43):
And join us on this elevated,informative and lively journey
into the world of all thingsdesign.
Hey everyone, today we'rejoined by Jacob Codner, managing
Partner of Market Auctions Inc.
Jacob is a fourth-generationauctioneer, a GIA graduate
gemologist and, honestly, one ofFlorida's youngest licensed
auctioneers, with decades ofexperience and, you know, an eye

(01:06):
for rare finds.
Jacob brings deep expertise infine art, antiques and estate
acquisitions.
He co-founded Market Auctionsalongside the Palm Beach Show
Group.

Tiffany Woolley (01:17):
Welcome to the iDesign Lab podcast.
Today we have Jacob Codner withus, who has a really
interesting story that I'mexcited to dive into A
multi-generational auctioneer,but, more importantly, jewelry
and fine art, so I'm excited todive into your story, so welcome

(01:38):
.

Jacob Kodner (01:38):
Thank you, thank you both, for having me.

Scott Woolley (01:40):
So you're multi-generation, so is it third
or fourth generation that yourfamily?

Jacob Kodner (01:44):
I am a third-generation auctioneer but
fourth-generation art andantique dealer.
What's the difference?

Scott Woolley (01:50):
between the two.

Jacob Kodner (01:51):
You know you could be an art and antique dealer
and have a gallery setting,versus an auction gallery where
I always say it's a lot like atraveling circus.
You set up the auction, youbring all the items, make sure
they're all shown and ready, youoffer them for sale.
Once that auction ends, theitems are removed and then you
start the next one.
For a gallery.
You know you have stagepresence and you have
exhibitions and things kind ofsit until they're sold, if that

(02:15):
makes sense.

Voice Over (02:15):
So there's a much higher volume.

Jacob Kodner (02:17):
Like a store Like a storefront exactly, but the
auctions have a large storefronttoo, but it's much more product
in, much more product out.

Tiffany Woolley (02:24):
And it looks like there's an end game to it
as well, right with auctioning.

Jacob Kodner (02:29):
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of times you can
get great value on things atauction.
Some stores and galleries willbuy at auction as well, so it
offers a good segment in theestate world for art, antiques,
decorative arts, jewelry as well.
So, yeah, it's a cool business.

Scott Woolley (02:46):
So where does all this stuff come from that
you're auctioning?
You said estates, is it allestates?
So someone passes away, afamily contacts you, how does
that?
A little bit of everything.

Jacob Kodner (02:56):
We have dealers that may have older product that
they don't know what to do with, so they contract us to come in
and represent their pieces.
We work with a lot of peoplethat can be going through
financial distress.
It could be divorce, it couldbe inheritance, it could be
relocation, it could bedownsizing their property, it
could be husband and wiferedecorating which is how I met

(03:20):
you, and you were very helpfulin navigating through the
dynamic between me and my wifeand our taste, which we'll talk
about later.
But yeah, so we come acrossthings a lot of different way,
and our other business is a sixstore jewelry chain that deals
in trades, so a lot of peoplewill come in wanting to trade
items that maybe the jewelrystores don't have the best

(03:42):
market for.
Those also end up in auction aswell.
So there's a lot of differentoutlets on how we come across
the product that we represent.

Tiffany Woolley (03:49):
So let's go back to the beginning and tell
us how you landed here and didyou always know, even though it
was a family tree business?

Jacob Kodner (04:01):
a little bit.
Did you know for sure?
This is what you wanted to do.
It was always a front runner.
So, growing up as a kid,growing up as a kid, I would be
going to my father's auctionhouse, working on the weekends
holding a little collectible andwalking up to someone who's
bidding saying what do you thinkabout this?

Voice Over (04:15):
This is beautiful.

Jacob Kodner (04:15):
This would look great, on whatever property,
whatever shelf you have to putit on.
And from there it just grew andgrew and grew.
And when I was actually in highschool I got my auction license
.
So cool.
You have to have a license toauction.
You do.
You have to be a licensedauctioneer with the state of
Florida, similar to a realestate professional or any other
trade regulator.

Scott Woolley (04:35):
Why do you need to have a license to auction?

Jacob Kodner (04:37):
So it's not just taking an item and offering it
for X, Y, whatever it is.
If there's a property, you needto make sure that you have
right of title.
If you're dealing in livestock,which I actually had to learn,
which is funny because I'm likeyou know this guy selling.
You know 19th century paintings.
I have to learn how toquarantine a cow if there's ever
an issue, and they literallyput you through all that Cars,

(04:58):
vehicles, titles, bills of sale.
You need to learn aboutinsurances if there is refunds.
Most contracts at auction areas is, whereas a less specified
doing proper due diligence, sothere's a lot that goes into it.
It really is.

Tiffany Woolley (05:14):
The chain of custody of items too, I'm sure
when you're dealing with thestates and it could be
inheritance.

Jacob Kodner (05:20):
Things can get messy if things are not properly
allocated to the person thathas the right to represent them.
So there is a lot of duediligence that takes place.

Scott Woolley (05:29):
So by the time you got to your teens or
graduating from high school, didyou know that you were kind of
designing your life to go andbecome an auctioneer?

Jacob Kodner (05:37):
So I knew I was designing my life to be in the
auction and antique business.
I did become a jeweler and agemologist, which, at the time,
I didn't know, which.
That's a funny story how Ibecame a gemologist and
mineralogist, but at the time Iwas 18 years old and going to
local auction houses saying hey,I'm a licensed auctioneer.

(05:58):
Do you guys need a mouthpieceto do an auction?
You know, let's do an auction.
And they said, sure, and I, youknow, make a few hundred bucks
for the night.
And I gained expertise.
What was cool, though, is Istarted buying my own stuff and
seeding the auctions that I wasrepresenting, and I'll never
forget I was 18 and change thatsummer.
Right out of high school,someone calls me and goes hey, I

(06:18):
want to sell a bunch of things.
And I go, and they pulled out abunch of jewelry, and I said I
have no clue what this is, but Ihad a friend who was a jeweler,
so I brought him on and hespent more I think his margin
was more, and he put everythingin his pocket, and you were like
, wow.

Tiffany Woolley (06:33):
Where I had a box truck and I was sweating and
I had my buddies.

Jacob Kodner (06:36):
We were loading a truck to make a few dollars,
where he took an item that hadthe same margin and put it in
his pocket.
At that point I became agemologist.
I said this is very interesting.

Tiffany Woolley (06:45):
You start to realize.

Jacob Kodner (06:47):
So that all ties with each other and it's full
Selling smaller things, you'refound to be a little bit easier.
Yeah, but again Precious gemsDo you still sell furniture Sure
.
No, we won't do just generalhousehold goods.
If it's the couch that was justused and there's nothing really
to it, then everything we dealin is either high luxury or

(07:09):
designer or a listed prominentartist or has some type of
importance.
It's not just cleaning out ahouse with pots and pans and
things like that.
People call us and that has beensomething we've done Take the
good, the bad, the ugly.
We want you to deal witheverything, so we do offer that,
but we do specialize in moreblue chip related stuff.

Scott Woolley (07:35):
So you have to have a pretty good knowledge of
a lot of different things.
I mean, I had a watch a coupleof years ago.
I didn't want Tiffany knewsomeone, I went to him.
Had a watch a couple of yearsago.
I didn't want Tiffany knewsomeone, I went to him and sold
it to him.
Sure, and you know, there's somany different watches.
We're watching a televisionshow right now called what's it
with?
John Hamm.

Jacob Kodner (07:55):
Oh, friends and Neighbors, yes, and I love it
when they talk about the paddockand the Richard Hill, the
Hermes.

Scott Woolley (08:00):
I'm like, wow, this is pretty crazy, right as
he's stealing these items, likegiving you a whole like chart on
the cost of the value, and fromwine to art.

Jacob Kodner (08:10):
I mean it's so extensive.
The Lichtenstein in that show.
Yes, great show.

Tiffany Woolley (08:16):
It's a good show we're still a little
through it, but where do you seethe value?
When you're walking throughthese and when you get that
phone call and you're walkingthrough an estate or you know,
whatever you're going to visit,where do you hone in on value,
like items, or is it thehistorical or is it the name?

Jacob Kodner (08:40):
It's a combination of everything.
I mean, even when we'reresearching paintings, we have
to go by the dimensions of thepiece, we have to go by the
subject matter of the piece, thecondition of the piece.
Was this artist recognized withthis genre?
Is this a genre work?
If the artist was known forlandscapes and this is a picture
of a car, is that going to be adesirable subject for that

(09:02):
artist?
Maybe not.
But in the art world I alwayssay if you like the piece first,
everything else doesn't matter.
I really truly believe in whatyou buy, you have to love it you
have to love it, and if youmake some money in the end with
an investment, great.
If you don't, it's the cost ofenjoying it.

Scott Woolley (09:16):
But when you're auctioning things or you're
valuing things, can you havelosses, sure, if you value it
incorrectly, or Well, I mean atauction, it's our job to really
deliver you the floor.

Jacob Kodner (09:29):
Okay, so if we believe an item is going to sell
for $5,000 to $6,000, we wouldoffer it at auction below that
low estimate for one, to createinterest in it and protect the
interest of the piece by beingwhere we should.
If you have an item that'sworth five to six, you won't
start it at above estimatebecause now it's not going to
sell for one and two.

(09:49):
Our buyers, our clientele, theyreally like artwork that's
fresh to market.
It's kind of like a real estatelisting that's been lingering
too long, and if you have apiece that goes up for auction
and fails to sell, it doesn'tnecessarily hurt.
It doesn't help the value,rather, of the piece.
It's an item that failed tosell, so now it's worth less.
So yeah, but you know there'slosses depending on how you

(10:11):
bought it.
If you bought an item at thepeak of the market, like
anything in business, it's onlyworth what someone's willing to
pay at that time.
You know, a lot of the artworkthat we do come across, though,
is family, generationalheirlooms.
So it is a moneymaker, I guess,is the right word.
But you know again, when we'redealing with people that need to

(10:34):
liquidate things, it dependshow they bought them.
If you're buying an item at theheight of the market, and that
is no longer the in vogue piece,the market is what it is, so,
yeah, people take losses.

Scott Woolley (10:46):
It seems like it's a very unique business from
a standpoint, like, I think, ofretail.
You have a store, you know Ihad grocery stores, so you know
the flow of people coming in.
You know we always hadsomething to sell, Sure, but
with you know what you're doing,do you have?
You have, like, dry spellswhere no one's reached?

Jacob Kodner (11:05):
out to you.
Well, I always say the auctionbusiness is good, as what you
have in the next auction.

Scott Woolley (11:10):
Right, but is it hard to find?
You know, our market here inSouth Florida is on fire and it
has been since COVID.

Jacob Kodner (11:19):
I mean, we're backlogged several auctions at
any given time and we sell overa thousand items a month, and
that's just the auction business.
And, as I mentioned, we'rebacklogged several auctions at
any given time and we sell over1,000 items a month, and that's
just the auction business.
And, as I mentioned, weactually have an art gallery, we
have a jewelry store chain.
We have other businesses aswell that are not just the once
a month, twice a month auction.
These are the retail stores,some of the groceries.

Scott Woolley (11:36):
So when you're doing an auction, do you have an
auction like building or room?
Yeah, we do.

Jacob Kodner (11:49):
So we have a 20,000 square foot building in
Lake Worth and we do in-personlive sales about two per year.

Scott Woolley (11:51):
We'll do a pre-season and a post-season
auction kickstart to Palm Beachwhen an audience or people can
go.

Jacob Kodner (11:53):
Exactly, yeah, people can come.
Because that's what I thinkit's on preview, it's on preview
exhibition and I kind of liketo market it as like a date
night at the auction.
We have it catered, you getdressed up a little bit, it's
fun, we have drinks and it'sjust an interactive thing that I
feel my generation and a lot ofpeople don't appreciate.

Tiffany Woolley (12:11):
Agreed, so you come to the auction.

Jacob Kodner (12:14):
You meet some friends, it's a social thing,
you have some drinks and maybeyou leave with an item.
It's really fun.
So how many people typicallywill attend something like that?
So we will have auctions thatcan have as little as 30, 40
people, and then we've had themwith several hundred standing.

Tiffany Woolley (12:30):
I was going to say that's not bad.

Jacob Kodner (12:31):
Yeah, standing room only with several hundred,
but every auction we do is alsosimultaneously offered online,
so we can have at any given timethousands of people watching
and bidding and majority of theitems.
With the advent of the internetand post-COVID the way that
business model shifted doactually sell online.
We ship all over the world.

Scott Woolley (12:51):
So it must be an interesting marketing.
You know how you have to market, to reach out to people, to be
aware.

Jacob Kodner (12:58):
Yeah.

Scott Woolley (12:58):
You know, I see every so often like maybe it was
like two years ago I don'tremember where I saw it, but
like Elton John put a wholebunch of All his sunglasses,
yeah up for the auction.
Yeah, you know, and there was.
I remember we looked at it liketwo years ago.
There was a whole bunch of likeElvis stuff.
We're just curious, like whatare they auctioning off of Elvis
stuff?
We have a really good friendwho had I don't think he has

(13:22):
anymore because I think heauctioned it all off he had like
one of the largest pop culturecollections of stuff in the
world, anthony Puglisi.
Okay, I don't know if you'refamiliar with Anthony.

Jacob Kodner (13:31):
I'm not, but I see the pop auctions that come up
and that's a great, great market.

Tiffany Woolley (13:35):
It is so.
Your niche is fine art or We'lldeal in anything from 19th
century to contemporary.

Jacob Kodner (13:42):
Okay think from 19th century to contemporary.
Okay, so in contemporary, 60s,70s but we do offer.
So our art gallery, providentfine art as well, recently
signed sylvester stallone,actually as an artist, which you
may have saw on my instagram.
Yeah, so you know, he's anartist that's still actively
painting and doing?

Tiffany Woolley (13:59):
is he really yeah?

Scott Woolley (14:00):
yeah always has been, not a pieces.

Tiffany Woolley (14:04):
Right, but which is kind of better?
Really right, totally yeah, andhe moved to Palm Beach not long
ago.
Great partnership.

Jacob Kodner (14:10):
Totally, totally, totally.
Oh he does sculptures too.
We haven't seen any of hissculptures yet, but we're
dealing in his artwork, hispaintings, and they've been
really cool.

Scott Woolley (14:21):
So you've been auctioning them and selling them
.

Jacob Kodner (14:22):
Not auctioning.
This has been at our ProvidentFine Art location in Palm Beach
and our art partner there, seanDavid.
He's actually a thirdgeneration art dealer.
He's the one spearheadingworking with that and
representing him as a client.
So it's been very, very cool.

Tiffany Woolley (14:36):
I love how you guys have all cross-collaborated
and built something that's moresustainable, I feel like too.

Jacob Kodner (14:43):
Yeah, well, it stemmed back to, I guess,
provident Jewelry, which is thesix-store chain that we have
here in town and in Florida.
They've been in business forover 30-something years as
estate buyers and sellers andalso brand representatives for
you know Breitling, chopard,cartier and all the tons of
different.
You know high-end brands and Ithink there's about 13,000

(15:07):
products skews in the companyright now, ranging from a couple
hundred dollar items tomultiple seven-figure diamonds.
I mean it's a pretty extensivebusiness.
But with that and catering toall of our clients is where the
auction house was built andwhere the.
Provident Fine Art was built andthen Provident Realty was built
.
So we have built all of thatbased upon the six-door jewelry

(15:29):
chain, which I think is theheart of the whole operation.

Tiffany Woolley (15:31):
Well and they all do like work hand in hand
together.
I mean people who appreciategood things, you know, want to
continue to learn, which is whyI love what you said, that for
our generation you're youngerthan me but for this newer
generation to really have peoplego back and really start to
appreciate history and thedetail behind, Totally.

Scott Woolley (15:56):
I think it would be a fun night out going to an
auction it's a blast.

Tiffany Woolley (15:59):
Let's go yeah.

Jacob Kodner (16:01):
Well, we'll have one this coming season.
You guys will come.
Yeah, so you only do it twice ayear For now, prior to COVID,
every auction we did was inperson, and then that fizzled
out, and then we actuallyswitched the model to fully
online, and then now, Is itengaging when it's online?

Scott Woolley (16:17):
Do you get the activity that?
Oh, we do.

Jacob Kodner (16:20):
We get tons of activity, but also just because
it's online.
You have exhibition that day.
People can come.
They can look at the items,touch the items If they want.
We do FaceTime consultations toshow them the items so you can
still be involved even not beingthere.
People will come for thatexhibition and say, call me on
lot 17,.
And we call them, or someonefrom the team calls them.
But you know, I've been, like Isaid, an auctioneer since 2008.

(16:44):
I enjoy auctioning.
I like being up there andhaving fun with people and you
know, having the wife nudge thehusband, stop bidding.
And then the other guy's saying,oh, are you going to bid?
And then it becomes a thing.

Tiffany Woolley (16:55):
You have to learn to read a crowd that way
too, so it's really like it'sfun, it is fun.

Scott Woolley (17:00):
So you're actually the auctioneer doing
$10.25,.

Jacob Kodner (17:04):
Looking at the already now $35.50, $75, $100,
$100.25, $100.50, $175, $200.

Scott Woolley (17:09):
$250 to Miss Tiffany, and I'll tell you that
there's so many charity eventsthat we've gone to and almost
every one is an auction.

Jacob Kodner (17:15):
Yeah, I did one last week in Miami.

Scott Woolley (17:17):
You did.
That's awesome the Greater.

Jacob Kodner (17:18):
Junior Achievement of Miami Beach last Monday
night.

Scott Woolley (17:21):
But most of the places I think they missed the
boat when they do it, becausethe person they have doing the
auction isn't engaging isn'tentertaining and you don't feel
as though it's an auction.

Jacob Kodner (17:33):
But it's a harder thing because, again, when I
grew up, I would go to dad andgrandpa's auction and it would
be filled.
And then, as I got older, thecrowd started diminishing and
even if you go to some of themajor New York houses, the
crowds aren't there like theyonce were.
But that's not just the auctionlosing stigma.

Tiffany Woolley (17:49):
No.

Jacob Kodner (17:50):
It's the model today where everyone's buying
online and you can look at theauctions online.
You can get the conditionreports online, but we've really
tried to I guess you knowparlay it back into a classy
night out.
Have fun, come to the auction,buy some stuff.

Tiffany Woolley (18:07):
It's educational too, because I feel
like you know, you learn and youstart to research an item, what
is like your most sought-afteritems.
I mean, I think what I findinteresting obviously is like
jewelry, but is it more art oris it really just across the
board?

Jacob Kodner (18:27):
it's across the board and our auctions we'll do
a couple throughout the yearthat are curated to one thing.
We can have a silver auction.
We actually had a big palmbeach book auction, probably I
mean insane books, I meanoriginal.
What kind of books we hadamazing.
Just, we had, let's see,winston Churchill books.

(18:47):
We had original dictionaries,we had Old man and the Sea.
I mean we had really cool namesand things like that.
It was really cool and I thinkthere was about 600 lots and it
was a two-part auction butthings like that.
And you know, you look at theseand some of them still had the
original receipts.
They brought, like you know,not tons for what they really

(19:10):
were and just even for decor tobuy a true antiquity, a true
book.
It was a value, it was amazing.
So that was a cool auction forus.
But the majority of ourauctions are multiple things,
you know jewelry, silver,artwork, porcelains.

Tiffany Woolley (19:30):
Do people leave with the item right then and
there they want to, they canyeah.

Jacob Kodner (19:34):
If it's a live sale, then yes, they can Online.
The invoices go out the nextmorning and we coordinate
shipping or they can come pickit up.
What about memorabilia?
So memorabilia, we do a lot ofprivate sales for memorabilia.
What do you mean by privatesales?
So, let's say, someone calledme and said I have a autographed
.
You know, whatever it is, we'drather it not go at auction

(19:55):
because in the event it doesn'tsell.
I don't want it to have thatburned.
You know, have it online.
So we have private clients thatbuy a lot of things.
And memorabilia is kind of oneof those that, rather than
auctioning it because,truthfully, our auctions we
don't deal in a lot of publicmemorabilia.
We have a lot of privateclients that buy that stuff.
So it depends Again to go backto what you said about just

(20:19):
product and what do wespecialize in?
It depends on the itemspecialize in.
It depends on the item.
We always act in best use athighest price.
So if we know that a privatesale will yield the client the
most value, we'll go that route.
If we think the auction's thebest route, we'll go that route.
If we think it's an item forProvident Fine Art, we'll put it

(20:39):
on consignment there.
If we think it's a diamond thatwe immediately have a client
for, we'll buy it outright andput it in our jewelry store.
So you know, these severalbusinesses do work with one
another to achieve the highestvalue for the product, which is
pretty cool.

Tiffany Woolley (20:53):
That is so cool and I know recently you had a
very cool I don't know how doyou call it a commission or when
you had the wrapper.

Jacob Kodner (21:01):
Oh, yeah, so we were contracted by the IRS to do
the artist Takashi69, danielHernandez, his, I guess,
confiscated jewelry and albumsand handbags, and that was a
sale for the books.

Tiffany Woolley (21:19):
It was just so fascinating.

Scott Woolley (21:21):
It was very cool.
What do you mean?

Tiffany Woolley (21:24):
To me.
Obviously it's such a popculture situation, but it was
also fine art.
I mean, it was the best ofeverything.

Jacob Kodner (21:33):
What was interesting about that is I have
not really listened to rapmusic.
I didn't know about it.
So when my rep at the IRS, whowe've done business with, calls
me and mentions it, I said I'vegot to do a little homework.
I don't know what this isreally, but he shows me the
pictures and I did one Googlesearch and I see one of his
videos that's been seen by abillion and a half people.

(21:54):
And he's wearing one of thependants that I'm having the
opportunity to sell.
I knew it'd be a no-brainer, sowe took 63 lots, 63 items,
which 59 out of the 63 sold.
The other ones did sell butunfortunately they didn't get
paid for.

Scott Woolley (22:10):
But it doesn't matter.
What does that mean?

Jacob Kodner (22:12):
Some people sometimes will just get caught
up, buy an item and decide notto pay, which it does happen
Really.
Yeah, but we hold the itemsuntil we're paid.
So it's okay, we'll typicallygo to the underbidder, but in
any event still.
It's okay, we'll typically goto the underbidder, but in any
event still.
59 out of 63 is a very bigsell-through rate.
We had over 3,000 registeredbidders and out of those 3,000

(22:32):
bidders, almost all of them werefirst-time bidders at auction.

Tiffany Woolley (22:46):
So therefore, fans, professionals,
entertainers, people that justseen his videos and want to own
a piece.
I've never even heard of theguy.
Well, you're not of the genre.

Jacob Kodner (22:49):
Yeah, I mean it was a diamond encrusted shark.

Tiffany Woolley (22:51):
You know the size of a, you know, and it's
funny because scott does somework with um, an urban comedian
that they produce, and I showedit to her immediately because I
thought she might be interestedin some of the pieces.
And and you know what she saidto me she's like were all the
diamonds real?
And I was like I have to askyou that because she was like I
bet they're not all real.

Jacob Kodner (23:11):
So she's right.
Now I will say this.
So again, I'm a gemologist, ourteam, we have several
gemologists and throughProvident Jewelry, every store
has several gemologists.
So every single diamond onevery single piece was hand
counted and one of the items hadover 7,000 stones that one of
our sales associates had to sitthere and count.
We wanted to make sure iseverything natural?

(23:33):
Is it synthetic?
If it is synthetic, you knowI'm sorry.
If it is natural, are theyirradiated?
Are they fully natural?
Are they treated in somecapacity?
So we did have a lot of thingsthat were natural.
We did have some things thatwere synthetic and then we had
some pieces that were majoritynatural, that may have had
repairs over the years withsynthetic, and all of this was
disclosed.
We use x-ray analysis for thestones.

(23:55):
We had to do precious metalanalyzing for the metals to see
is it truly 14, 18, 10, whateverit is?
But the sale itself was bananas.
It was like literally crazy tohave over 3,000 bidders and
first-time bidders.
We actually had to bring oversupport staff from the other
companies to physically callevery single bidder 3,000 phone

(24:20):
calls.
3,000 phone calls Yep, and Ijoke because I have a video of
the auction floor and all of oursales people you know that are
at the jewelry stores.
You know more refined, dressed,nice and everyone's working the
phones.

Scott Woolley (24:30):
It reminded me like a boiler room and you know,
selling penny stocks orwhatever there's a lot of work
that's going on behind thescenes it's not as simple as
that and that specific sale.

Jacob Kodner (24:42):
We were on yahoo, we were on newsweek, we were TMZ
, business Insider, local news,national news.
I mean that got picked up andwent completely viral all over
the world.
We were on let's see DominicanRepublic.
We were on a bunch of talkshows.
I mean it was insane forbusiness.

Tiffany Woolley (25:00):
How fun.

Jacob Kodner (25:06):
Meanwhile, we're behind the scenes trying to
monitor these phone calls andsaying okay, if you're bidding
on this, you have to betransferred over to the high
level department.

Tiffany Woolley (25:10):
We had to get proof of funds and it was a lot.
What was the most expensiveitem that went?

Jacob Kodner (25:13):
Was it the shark?
I think was it the shark?
I think it was the shark, andthat was like 60 some odd
thousand dollars, but thesleeper was actually the plaques
, the albums, those were allestimated $3,000 to $4,000,
$3,000 to $5,000.
And there was I forgot how many, I think over a dozen of them
$20,000, $25,000.

Scott Woolley (25:35):
I mean they just went crazy.
On the platinum and gold albumsMm-hmm, yeah, hmm, how do you
value that?

Jacob Kodner (25:43):
Well, that's one of the things with the auctions.
If, how do you value that?
Well, that's one of the thingswith the auctions.
If it's a harder item to value,you let the market really
dictate what it is.
You just strap yourself in andyou're all along for the ride.
But initially to value it withthose estimates, we use other
wrap items that may have gonethrough the secondary market and
we try to comp them out andthen just be a little more

(26:03):
conservative than that.
But none of us expected thoseto achieve what they did.
The jewelry items you canfigure out.
Carat weight you can figure outlabor, you can figure out metal
.

Voice Over (26:13):
It's more of a quantifiable thing.

Jacob Kodner (26:14):
Yeah, but the albums, like I keep saying, was
really the educational thing forus and the sleeper of the sale,
which was pretty cool.
Yeah, there was many sixfigures in just those.

Tiffany Woolley (26:26):
Did he himself vote on anything back, or I mean
?

Jacob Kodner (26:30):
Couldn't say.
But it was interesting.
We had a lot of.
We made a lot of new clientsthat we may have not gotten.
I mean athletes, otherentertainers, I mean it's pretty
cool.
One of my sales guys at theauction house is now texting an
NBA guy like they're bestfriends and I'm like that is
crazy.
That's awesome, so it was apretty cool pivotal moment for

(26:52):
us.

Tiffany Woolley (26:52):
So how does something like that come to your
auction house?

Jacob Kodner (26:58):
So we, the auction house Market Auctions does
business with the IRS and thejewelry store Provident Jewelry
does business with the IRS.
This sale came to ProvidentJewelry from an appraisal
standpoint.
They wanted everythingappraised for fair market and
the rep knows us because we notonly appraise but our other
business sells and they're notdivided, which is good, so you

(27:19):
can offer both of those.
So once the items wereappraised, he and I just started
discussing us representingselling them, and that's how
that ended up coming to light.

Tiffany Woolley (27:29):
And what was the time frame?

Jacob Kodner (27:31):
By the time we took possession to the time we
actually had the sale, and itwas probably about a five to six
month turnaround, which isrelatively quick, right.

Tiffany Woolley (27:40):
I would think so when working on a deal like
this.
Yeah.

Jacob Kodner (27:43):
Yeah.

Tiffany Woolley (27:44):
That was a.

Jacob Kodner (27:45):
But it was one for the books, because I remember
when they delivered the things,I took items I took possession
at one of our jewelry stores andthat's where we started
analyzing everything and theremust have been 20 IRS agents in
vests and firearms dropping thisoff and I'm like what is going
on Like a grease truck literallyTotally.
They had an armored security,they had all of these people and

(28:07):
I'm like it looks like we'regetting robbed or something just
happened.

Scott Woolley (28:11):
A raid's happening.

Jacob Kodner (28:12):
A raid exactly, and I'm like this is bananas,
this is crazy.
And then it was funny.
But it was pretty crazy, it wasa cool auction.

Tiffany Woolley (28:21):
So how often does the IRS call you with
something like that?

Jacob Kodner (28:27):
We do a few a year that are larger like that.
We do appraisal work for thempretty regularly, just because
the IRS asks us to do appraisalwork doesn't mean that item will
eventually be sold.
It could still go back to theowner and whatnot.

Scott Woolley (28:41):
That seems like a good client to have, getting
repeat business Sure.
But what other clients do youhave from a repeat business
standpoint?
Is it you know brokers, realestate brokers, who are selling
in the state?

Jacob Kodner (28:53):
On the auction side, we deal with a lot of
estate attorneys.
We deal with a lot of realestate brokers, real estate
associates that are in and outof homes.

Scott Woolley (29:02):
So are you marketing to them?
Are you reaching out to them,reminding them putting your back
in we're?

Jacob Kodner (29:07):
marketing to them.
But also, as momentum grows,people realize that we can be a
one-stop shop.
If you're a real estate agentand you go into a home someone's
lived there for X amount ofdecades and it's loaded to the
brim with antiques or contents,we should say that real estate
agent may have a difficult time,one emptying the house, helping

(29:28):
that person, and the people aresometimes attached to their
pieces.
Well, maybe I don't want tosell my property because what am
I going to do with all thisstuff?
We're just another facet tohelp them sell that product, to
sell that home, and also, alongthe way, we help the client and
we help ourselves.
It's a win-win.
It's a win-win, yeah.

Tiffany Woolley (29:46):
It is such a hand-holding personal business
too.

Scott Woolley (29:52):
So it's been a family business for how many
years, how many decades?

Jacob Kodner (29:55):
My grandfather came from Russia in 1905 to
Illinois and then he opened anantique store which that was my
great-grandfather, I'm sorry.
And then my grandfather.
And then he opened an antiquestore which that was my
great-grandfather, I'm sorry.
And then my grandfather, uh,opened up an auction gallery in
uh, chicago, and the address was5100 foster, which was an old
nightclub where danny thomas andall these old guys uh started
off at which is pretty cool andthen my, my, my father and his

(30:18):
two brothers moved down to uhsurfside in the 80s and that's
where they opened up theirstores.
And then I left.
I left in 2008, opened up myown business, which in 2015,
kind of joined in with ProvidentJewelry to launch this
non-jewelry-related division.
And in the 10 years I've beenthere, we've done the auction

(30:38):
business, we've spearheadedProvident Fine Art, we've done a
lot of cool things outside ofjust the brick-and-mortar
jewelry model that's been sosuccessful for so At least I do
in South Florida auction houses,or in these jewelry stores.
You know the auction houses.
They're out there but theydon't have the hey look at me

(30:59):
effect as a jewelry store does.
A lot of them could be inindustrial plazas today and,
like I mentioned, the model ofpeople coming and going into an
auction is not like it once was.
So we've been working hard toreally make that model sexy
again, if it makes sense.

Tiffany Woolley (31:17):
And how do you go about curating the actual
catalog for the auction?

Jacob Kodner (31:24):
Well, we have a good gallery director in place,
so you do.
Yeah, we have a gallerydirector, we have a team of
specialists and we won't putitems in just to put them in.
There's always a method to themadness of process.
Yeah, you know we'll, we'llknow that this auction is more
art heavy and we'll focus onbetter quality art.
Or, you know, we, we, we'recurating the sales, we are

(31:47):
curating them.

Scott Woolley (31:49):
It's just so crazy Interesting yeah so are
there other aspects of thebusiness that you know?
Um, how am I best trying to sayit?
Uh, other items or things thatyou'd like to be selling or
auctioning but are moredifficult, that might have a

(32:10):
greater value, but, yeah, andvery limited and we're always
looking into the what's next andyou know we mentioned friends
and neighbors earlier about theHermes Birkin being a staple.

Jacob Kodner (32:23):
So you know, there's other auction houses,
major firms that have curatedluxury designer handbag sales.
Well, they'll have Chanel's andBirkin's and all the things
that follow suit and Birkins andall the things that follow suit
.
So we are trying to get moreinto that, doing those type of
just luxury designer good sales,and we have pieces almost in

(32:45):
every sale, at least somethinglike that, but more of a curated
specialty auction, for that isreally what we've been focusing
on.
Now.
It's an always evolving andever-changing thing because
trends change.

Tiffany Woolley (32:58):
Well, yeah.

Jacob Kodner (32:59):
Yeah, I mean you of all people know that Totally,
and how do you see, with thesetrends changing?

Tiffany Woolley (33:06):
I mean, the one thing that's like we're talking
about the bags and everything.
For me, with social media, it'sjust become like a staple that
you have to have these certainitems to evolve yourself.
And people like my kids, forexample, as teenagers, know
about these items and I'm like,how do you even know about them
at such a young age?

(33:27):
How do you see?
And obviously, forgeries, andhow much of it is actually real
and not real, and does thataffect what you guys are doing?
So that's a very good point.

Jacob Kodner (33:43):
And unfortunately, since the beginning of time, if
something has value, there'sbeen a forgery that follows it,
Whether it's a diamond, a ruby,an emerald, a sapphire, a
Cartier love bracelet, a VanCleef Alhambra.
That's just how it is andfortunately, as time has
progressed, it becomes harderand harder to verify that stuff.

(34:04):
Now we have resources throughour other channels to verify it
Again.
Our jewelry company carriesCartier.
We happen to have someone inour jewelry company that managed
the Van Cleef flagship store inNew York.
He's on our staff.
So I mean that's the, that's thealmost the end, all be all.
But I mean there's thingscoming out of overseas that have

(34:26):
fake paperwork, fake boxes fakeinvoices.
It's very difficult and youknow if you buy from a reputable
place, they stand behind it and, honestly, no one's perfect.
I've had some of my closestfriends buy things in good faith
, sell them in good faith, onlyto realize later on that they
could be a replica.
We are extremely cautious ofanything we sell signed.

Voice Over (34:49):
And we stand behind it.

Jacob Kodner (34:50):
You have to be.
But you know, you look in thenewspapers Port of Palm Beach,
port of Miami, confiscated $20million in Louis Vuitton bags
and Cartier.
It's just like South Florida islike a mecca for counterfeit
stuff and it's bad.
It is a bad thing.
But I would just say you haveto buy it from a reputable place

(35:11):
.
You know people buy things oneBay or online.
Wow, look at this Cartier lovebracelet.
That's like one of the mostknocked off things and wow, it's
a good deal.
Well, there's not really a gooddeal on a Cartier love bracelet
because they're so desirable.
If you see one, that's a gooddeal.
It's questionable.

Tiffany Woolley (35:30):
Well, that's why I love what you're doing
about trying to make the auctionmore of like a date experience
and really like it's almost partof educating your consumer and
this next generation about thevalue of these items and the
importance that that value holds, and may it maintain it Exactly
.
I mean, I've always been of themindset like if you can't

(35:51):
afford it, you don't want thesure copy.
I mean I and I try to likeexplain that to my kids too as I
agree, you go to the mall andthere's these pop-up shops of
you know, little knockoff bagsand this, and that I'm like it's
better to create your own styleand evolve with what you can.

Jacob Kodner (36:11):
Yeah, and I think that also does correspond with
market, because a lot of peoplebuy synthetic diamonds today too
.
So, you know, one can argue isthat a natural?
It's a diamond, but it'sman-made, versus it being
natural.
And then one can argue okay, isthis love bracelet that has the
same exact spec, weight,dimensions, layout, the same as

(36:33):
natural?
I disagree with all of that,but that's just my opinion, for
whatever it's worth.
So, like you said, there'salways a retained value in
buying what's true and you wantto pass something along to the
family, you want to buysomething that you know is
another vessel, for somethingthat's not going to lose money.
You got to buy the real stuff,but that's where the value is.

(36:55):
That's where the value is.
That's where the value is.
That's my two cents, anyway.

Tiffany Woolley (36:57):
So how do you go and see all of these
beautiful things and do all thisresearch?
I mean, I somewhat get attachedto these.
How do you not want to haveeverything in your own personal
collection?
Well, before I answer that, I'mgoing to mention to the podcast
how I met you.

Jacob Kodner (37:16):
My wife and I were renovating a home and you
helped navigate through ourcompletely different tastes.
And it's funny because duringour one-year renovation with
each other.
I would text you pictures,tiffany.
Look what I just bought I'mputting in storage.
Madison's like yuck, and I waslike well, check this out,
tiffany.
What about this?
Would this go there?
Madison's like yuck, and I waslike well, check this out,
tiffany.
What about this?
Would this go there?
Madison's like ew.

Scott Woolley (37:36):
We got to put you stuck through your wife's
saying this oh, yeah, yeah, Iknow.

Voice Over (37:39):
Tiffany was like a mediator for a year.
She's not just an amazinginterior designer, she's a
therapist.

Jacob Kodner (37:45):
So it was funny because when I come across
things, I do fall in love withthem.

Tiffany Woolley (37:50):
And you have a good eye, right, but any antique
dealer or you know someonethat's a historian.

Jacob Kodner (37:55):
It's hard for them not to be a collector too right
you know what I mean, and it'sit.
It is hard and I still, to thisday, have a storage unit and I
have pallets of stuff at mywarehouse.
It's just mine and you know I Idon't know what I'm gonna do
with it, but I sometimes stilltext you.
What do you think about this?
yeah but you were awesome inhelping navigate.
Hey, this would.
This would look good.
And you know one of mypaintings that we built the

(38:16):
light for, luckily Madison likesthat one.
But you know I actually enjoyedthat process, like kind of
annoying my wife a little bitthrough the whole project.
Pretty fun, that was pretty fun.

Tiffany Woolley (38:28):
Well, and as people like young clients which
I love having you know that youactually did have these pieces
that have such history and alsosuch high style.
That to me, that's what makeshouses timeless are the
integration of these pieces thathave such historical meaning

(38:51):
and I mean that's kind of likeyou know, our house is kind of a
bit of that too.
I mean it's it's stuck in thedecor in the age of what we
decorated it, but what keeps itlike still, like home, and
people you know come in andappreciate it is because we have
all this other random stuffthat.

Scott Woolley (39:07):
I've brought in.
Our house is filled with stuffwe've collected along through
our life?
Yeah, of course, but they'rememories, correct, they're
sentimental, like every piece ofart in our house, there's a
story behind it.
Sure, it's not like whenTiffany decorates a house like
she was just doing a house andshe bought I don't know, 20

(39:28):
paintings for the house and I'mlike they're buying just
paintings that you just showedthem.
Yeah, it's like I can'tcomprehend that.
It's like, well, it's going tomake the house beautiful, it's
going to finish the house.
Yeah, I said well, I couldn'tdo that.
Everything that's on the wallhas a story.

Jacob Kodner (39:43):
Yeah, you were involved in everything.

Scott Woolley (39:45):
Yeah, we got that when we were there, sure, when
we were in Bali, we got thatthat.

Tiffany Woolley (39:57):
I like that too , though, but that's why I love
that you want to insert this.
I feel like we need to actuallydo some more discussions about
this, because it is amazing tohave clients who come in who are
almost 50 years old and havenothing.
Not that things define you orare that important, but they do
tell a story.

Scott Woolley (40:18):
She's doing a house right now and I was in
recently and I came back to theoffice and I said I was chatting
with the client and he's, Idon't know, 48, 49.
I said, tiffany, he has liketwo bins.
And I said to him.
I said you have all your stuffin storage.
You must be like excited to getinto the house because the
house is ready.
He's like everything's here.
And I said you have nothing inthe house.

(40:41):
I said because the furniturehadn't been delivered yet.
And he's like come with me.
And he's like he takes me intohis closet and he goes this is
everything I have in life.
It's right here.
And I thought to myself, likemyself.

Jacob Kodner (40:57):
Like how do you go through 47 or 48 years and you
don't have anything?
Nothing like nothing.
I think also, like we talkedabout earlier, with the auction
market and trends, it's aminimalistic world too.
Yeah, you know, a lot of peopleare going super contemporary,
it's super modern, where there'snot a lot of stuff in there no,
it's true and again to each hisown.
But I grew up where, likeanything in my house, I couldn't
touch as a child.

Tiffany Woolley (41:16):
Right, Same here.
You know like look at all theseporcelain figures.
Well, don't touch them.

Jacob Kodner (41:19):
Well, Mom, I'm going to warm up something in
the microwave.
Well, don't use that, chinait's like.
Well, what is all this stuff?

Voice Over (41:30):
Like what is all of this?

Scott Woolley (41:31):
So I grew up to my aunt and uncle's house, my
parents would say do not go inthe living room or the dining
room whatsoever at all.

Tiffany Woolley (41:36):
That's so true.
They would not allow it inthose rooms and I'm like why
yeah?
Well, I feel like it's our jobto create a balance between that
.

Jacob Kodner (41:43):
And you did that perfectly with Madison.

Tiffany Woolley (41:45):
And I feel like we owe it to the next
generation to really startseeding those seeds.

Scott Woolley (41:54):
So your business to keep it growing and going,
you've got to continually befinding stuff, bringing stuff in
, so do you typically look forbig collections?
Or if someone walked in andsaid I've got these three items
that I'd like to, we do both.
We do both Because I hate touse this word or say this we use

(42:15):
some things you want to get ridof.

Tiffany Woolley (42:17):
No, no, no.

Scott Woolley (42:18):
it reminds me of like one or two things like
going to a pawn shop, yeah,where you're basically going to
a counter saying in the hangleyback, what's this worth.

Jacob Kodner (42:26):
They'll bring in the expert and you know do that.

Scott Woolley (42:28):
So has there been any?
There's been a lot oftelevision, successful
television programs about theAntique Roadshow, the Pawn,
those kind of things.
Has there been anything withauctions, like big auctions?

Jacob Kodner (42:40):
And I think of auctions.

Scott Woolley (42:41):
like you watch a movie, like what's the movie you
love with Pierce Brosnan ThomasCrown of Fear.
Yes, thomas Crown of Fear, oh,it's a famous painting.

Voice Over (42:50):
The man with the hat .

Scott Woolley (42:52):
I watched that as a kid and and I was enamored by
it.
I know Great movie.
That's what I think of as anauction, you know what?

Jacob Kodner (43:00):
That's how auctions were at one point.
There was a sexy edge to it andI feel like that's kind of
calmed a little bit witheveryone buying online.
That's what we're trying tobring back.
But to answer your questionwith a show, years ago there was
a show based out of Atlanta andit was kind of more of a.
I mean, he had a pretty bigbusiness and I actually knew his
father that owned that auctionhouse, which is funny because

(43:20):
he's older than me, but I knewhis father and it was just a
funny thing.
But successful auction house.
There hasn't really been a showlike that.
We've tried over the years todo something like that and find
a show like that, but like Ispent with, as mentioned to
Tiffany, some of our clients dolike to be confidential.
Now can we have a show of uslike American pickers in the van
, going from one house to theother, totally.

(43:42):
And I think that'd be anamazing thing for the business
and not only the business, butfor people to essentially
understand the value ofantiquities and understanding
that if you know where to look,okay, maybe you can go to a
local furniture store and buy abrand new couch.
It's going to cost you five,six, 10, 15 grand.
Or you can buy a, you know,ruffled leather piece if it's

(44:04):
for a man cave, for a thousandbucks, pre-owned, in good shape.
So you know, it's nice to knowwhat you can bring back.
And actually I will say, when wewere doing our furniture for
our house, if you remember,tiffany, that was hard for me to
swallow that pill because I'mlike man, you know, I've seen
antiquities that I like a littlebetter, maybe whatever.

(44:26):
But everything we picked outwas great and it was a perfect
tribute to both Madison and I.
But I was like, oh man, youknow that was a harder one for
me, but it turned out great,everything turned out perfect
mixture.
But yeah, it would be cool todo a show one day and I think
it's.

Scott Woolley (44:43):
But are there any like that Not?

Jacob Kodner (44:45):
active that I know of.
I don't think I've ever seenone.
No, there's a show on Netflix Iforgot what it was called but
they deal in more likecollectibles.
They'll do you know Pokemoncards and memorabilia, things
like that there's so much withthe cards and everything too, so

(45:05):
going back to this TV show, Iguess because it's first in my
head.

Tiffany Woolley (45:08):
So everything has these serial numbers today
and everything is so trackableas you're doing your auctions
and you're bringing these itemsin, do they start getting a
history and become trackable?

Jacob Kodner (45:26):
Well, it depends on the item.
If we're going back talkingabout Van Cleef and Cartier,
those replicated pieces can havetrue serial numbers, because
you can go to the Cartier store,buy something, copy it and
return it.
That's what counterfeiters cando, not to scare anybody,
obviously.
But there's not really adatabase to track a lot of
things like that.
Now there is, so it would be socool For serial numbers, yeah,

(45:51):
but a lot of stuff remainsconfidential.
A lot of this still happensbehind scenes, not in the
public's eye.
But for artwork, you know,let's use an artist of
Lichtenstein.
If I wanted to see where thispainting's been in the past 40
years.
There's databases to type inthat artist's name, the
dimensions.
Maybe, if that piece is titled,I can find that, okay, it went
through Sotheby's in 87, it wentthrough Christie's in 92.

(46:12):
And those listings that theyhave on that database will show
private collection in betweenthis and that.
But I mean, my job typically iswhen I go into someone's house
a lot of the stuff could beheirlooms and it's never seen
the public side.
So we've actually dealt in lostartwork by lost artwork.
This is the missing paintingthat no one's known about for

(46:32):
150 years and it's our job toalso go through the Lost Art
Registry make sure it was not astolen piece from overseas.
We have an advisory council thatgoes through making sure
there's no claims doing our ownhomework and then bring it to
market.
So it's a tough thing to track.
But serial numbers and diamondsthat have Gia certificate

(46:54):
numbers, things like that youcan track in the event that they
were ever stolen, um, and theyshow up in the public's eye, but
yeah and then like, how do theyget resold, like on this show,
once it's stolen?

Tiffany Woolley (47:07):
how did, like there's a market, like for that,
you know, and that's it's TV.

Jacob Kodner (47:13):
And you know whenever, I've even watched.

Scott Woolley (47:16):
In the show.
They're going to a pawn shop.

Tiffany Woolley (47:18):
Oh, I know.

Scott Woolley (47:19):
And that person's selling it to someone who's a
private.
Yeah, you know, it's likepaintings.
There's a lot of famous.
You know there was the Bostonthe art.
Isabella Gardner, stuartGardner, they disappeared and
they're probably sitting in acouple of collectors' homes that
no one knows about.

Jacob Kodner (47:33):
Yeah, and you think about artwork, though, and
I always say art andantiquities is a little
different than jewelry because,going back to auction estimates,
which we talked about earlier,how do?
You develop a market value, andI like to be a little bit more
on the conservative side,because if an item doesn't sell,
I can't turn it into somethingelse.
Okay, if it's a necklace thatwe try to sell two, three, four

(47:56):
times, it doesn't sell.
Okay, maybe we just pull thestones out of it, we melt the
gold and we make something else.

Scott Woolley (47:59):
There's always a pivot.

Jacob Kodner (48:01):
So you know, with with the art world, you have to
approach it from a very smartmarketing strategy because you
don't want things not to sell.
So it's just an interestingdynamic and other pieces.
You know that they're going tosell themselves.
You don't have to worry, it'sautopilot, you just bring it up
to market.
It's a desirable piece, it's ahot artist at that time Rock and

(48:22):
roll.

Scott Woolley (48:23):
So I have to ask you another question.
You ever wake up in the morning, look in the mirror while
you're getting ready and say toyourself why am I an auctioneer?
Why am I in this?
Because you think of all thethings that people can do in
life.

Tiffany Woolley (48:37):
It's so fascinating.

Scott Woolley (48:38):
It's a really fascinating, interesting but
very small demographic of peoplewho are doing what you do, who
have gone in that direction.
But you're like touchinghistory almost every other day
probably.
You're meeting so many unique,different people every day.
It's a fascinating career andjob.

Jacob Kodner (48:58):
So I wouldn't say I ask myself, like, how did I
get here?
But I do acknowledge, if Istrictly was in the auction
business, would I enjoy it asmuch as I do Right Now.
Granted, I mentioned, I'm agemologist, I'm in the jewelry
business, I'm in the real estatebusiness.
You know, we do trade shows andI go travel and we set up our
booths, right, and all of thosethings touch on one another.

(49:18):
But if it was just one facet,full time, you know I like to be
moving and grooving and doingthings.
Now, I love what I do and Iwouldn't change it for anything.
But also, you remember, when Irenovated our house, I was
extremely involved in that too,extremely involved in that too,

(49:38):
so I love anything that'screating something or
resurrecting something.

Tiffany Woolley (49:40):
Yeah, you have a very entrepreneurial spirit.

Jacob Kodner (49:42):
Thank you.
And it was just great because Iknow if I ever had to clock in
a nine to five behind a computerI wouldn't do it.
I couldn't do it If I had to doit, obviously, but I couldn't
do it.
So the auction days, I mean oneday I could be going at the
auction gallery.
Someone can walk in and see ahistoric item.
I'm like, oh my God.
Or someone can call us in aneed for a influx financially

(50:04):
and we go in.
It's like a noble thing.
We're helping someone and we'rehelping ourselves too.
It's a for-profit business.
So it's nice to know that it'snot just okay.
You're in the auction business,you take stuff and you resell
it because it's so much morecomplex.
And even when people ask whatdo you do?
I stumble, how do I answer that?
It's like I sell stuff I don'tknow I'm diversified, yeah.

(50:26):
And it's like because.

Scott Woolley (50:28):
You should say you're an auctioneer.

Jacob Kodner (50:29):
I think that's a fascinating thing to say yeah,
it's a fascinating thing to say,yeah, it is, but like yesterday
I was at the jewelry store allday.
Didn't really touch base on theauction business.
So I personally do float around, but the auction business has a
full-time staff of specialistcataloging, researching things.
We have a packing department,we have a curator, we have a

(50:51):
gallery assistant, we havegallery hands.
It's awesome and you go there.
There's forklifts moving,there's racks, there's stuff
going.
It's cool to see things moving.
And where is this?
In Lake Worth, lake Worth, 500North Dixie.
Yeah, in Lake Worth, and theauction house is Market Auctions
and the website'smarketauctionscom.
Now the jewelry stores we haveWest Palm Beach, palm Beach,

(51:12):
jupiter, naples, fort Myers andWellington.
So six brick-and-mortar stores.

Scott Woolley (51:17):
Two on the West Coast, two on the.

Jacob Kodner (51:20):
West Coast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And again full service.
Each store has heck about adozen people it's about 70-plus
employees in the jewelrybusiness at this time and then
the show company hosts tradeshows.
We'll actually rent out anentire convention center,
sublease all the booth space,which again is great, because
now Provident Jewelry isexhibiting.

Tiffany Woolley (51:41):
Market Auctions is exhibiting.

Jacob Kodner (51:43):
Palm Beach Design Showroom is exhibiting,
Provident Realty is exhibiting.
So we have all of thesedifferent businesses under the
same roof of one business thatwe're doing for a show.
So it's been very cool to tieall of this together.
So, yeah, it's fun.

Tiffany Woolley (51:56):
And I feel like you know we talk on this show.
We like to bring up socialmedia and how, like you as a
person, are building your ownbrand through social media, and
I feel like the brands that youguys are building also take such
a precedence over social media.

(52:16):
How do you use that to youradvantage regularly?

Jacob Kodner (52:21):
Well, just like that Tekashi auction, you know
it took one famous rapper toreshare that auction for that to
go absolutely viral.

Tiffany Woolley (52:31):
I mean viral.

Jacob Kodner (52:32):
Viral to the point me and our support team.
Our website actually crashedthe first night with bid influx.
We were on two in the morningtrying to stabilize our auction
which, I joke, was getting awayfrom us because of the bids and
the registrations and all thisstuff.
So two in the morning when theauction opened.
You're all still awake, we'reall still awake just trying to

(52:53):
contain this, and social mediahelped that auction achieve what
it did.
Now, with social media, yourreach is just not micro anymore.
I mean you know, not even justthe auction house, but the
jewelry business, the six stores, as I mentioned those brands.
But we deal in, you know,antique, deco, cartier pieces

(53:17):
and David Webb, and like thebest of the best that you'll
never find.

Tiffany Woolley (53:21):
David Webb is so hot right now.

Jacob Kodner (53:22):
It's so hot and the enamel work that they do,
it's just great.
So we have those pieces and youknow what?
Not a lot of people are knowingthat stuff.
So if we put it on social mediaand we did a beautiful story,
we can get a hit from overseas.
Oh my God, look at that AzureMalachite Ram's Head Bangle
Bracelet by David Webb, whichmost people that know that drool

(53:45):
over that.
So it's helped.
And our e-commerce site atprovidentjewelrycom, which was
recently relaunched, shows a lotof our pieces and which was
recently relaunched, shows a lotof our pieces and that's just
been gangbusters since it's gonelive.

Tiffany Woolley (53:58):
And that took a long time to get it coming, I
would think.
So everything has to bephotographed and all of it
written up.

Jacob Kodner (54:04):
But, it's funny because you look at the antique
business, the auction businessand the jewelry business, a lot
of them are still old school.
You know handwritten receipts.
I don't need an inventorymanagementipts, I don't need an
inventory management system, Idon't need a website.
So, with this new mainstreamwhere everything is on social
media, it's imperative to makeyour presence known.
And you know, if you're notgrowing, you're dying.

(54:28):
So you need to always bethinking ahead, Correct.

Tiffany Woolley (54:33):
Yeah, so what is ahead?

Jacob Kodner (54:39):
Well, you know, in the auction business, like we
talked about handbags, you knowwe're always looking to grow the
auction business, do curatedsales, do more sales, more
product.
We've talked about opening asecond location on the West
Coast just for influx, becausewe have a lot of deals that come
out of Naples, sarasota, gulfCoast, over there.
So we have a lot of deals thatcome out of Naples, sarasota,
the Gulf Coast, over there.
So we have a lot of differentthings there.
We're actually working on ourown proprietary inventory

(55:00):
software just to be ahead of thegame.
On the auction house, thejewelry store is always looking
ahead hiring on good staff,hiring, like I mentioned,
gemologists, the best benchmento manufacture set stones, best
watchmakers, which that is adying art.
Watchmaking in general, so fine, which we'll talk about.
That's actually.
Well, let's pause.
So watchmaking like a cobbleror like a true tradesman, that

(55:25):
doesn't exist, like it once did.
You know.

Tiffany Woolley (55:27):
Really the complicated movements.

Jacob Kodner (55:30):
And also again going back to our historic
preservation credo thatProvident Jewelry and Market
Auctions has.
We deal in antique estatepieces.

Scott Woolley (55:39):
So where is a person learning or getting
educated to be able to fix afine watch?

Jacob Kodner (55:43):
There's still watchmaking schools out there.

Scott Woolley (55:45):
There is.

Jacob Kodner (55:46):
There is and believe it or not, there's a
shortage of watchmakers in theworld, I could imagine.
But you really need to havetrade experience.
You know, even me.
When I became a gemologist Igot out of gem school.
I didn't know the value ofstones, I knew what I was
looking at.
Right and from there I couldhelp try to develop value, but
it's hands-on experience Timeyeah.
Time and working on pieces.

(56:08):
And if I'm showing a watchmakeran open-faced pocket watch,
railroad watch from the 1880s,most modern watchmakers would
scratch your head, say what isthis?
I don't know how to work withthis.
So you got to have the rightguys and you got to know what
the right guy is for the rightpiece.
And going back to collecting Ipersonally collect pocket
watches and it's a harder thing,if I ever want something

(56:30):
serviced, to know who I cantrust for that specific
complication on an antique,100-plus-year-old item.
It's a multi-tiered thing.

Tiffany Woolley (56:39):
So is there people in the United States that
are like schools here in the US?
I always felt like it's notdone here in the United States.

Jacob Kodner (56:47):
There is a watchmaking schools in the US.
I believe there's actually onein Miami and one in New York,
but a lot of the watchmakersthey go over to Switzerland.

Tiffany Woolley (56:56):
Right, miami and one in New York, but a lot
of the watchmakers they go overto Switzerland, right.
That's what I figured I mean.
And how does like a watchbecome like?
I feel like there's cycles, Iguess.
I mean it's on trend, theychange.

Jacob Kodner (57:06):
It is trend.
I mean women are wearing, byhistoric standards, men's
watches today.

Tiffany Woolley (57:11):
Yes.

Jacob Kodner (57:11):
You know, women are wearing very large face
watches.

Tiffany Woolley (57:13):
Yes.

Jacob Kodner (57:14):
Where men used to wear what women wear today as a
watch, and women would wear asmuch smaller or mid-sized watch
and then even you know, vintagemen's pieces were very thin,
very small, and for the longesttime these watches kept getting
bigger and bigger and bigger,and now we're kind of seeing a
little bit of a reset on thatwhere women are going back to a
midsize and men are going from a44 millimeter to a 40 or back

(57:37):
to a 39 or a 36, which has beena Rolex Presidential since the
beginning of time.
True, iconic, creme de la cremeRolex Presidential 36 millimeter
.
Today they're not, they're 40,41.
Really, yeah.
So it's nice to have thattailoring back a little bit.
Market trends pearl necklacesNot a lot of people and I see
you're wearing pearl- earrings.
I love pearls and I think thatas a woman, it's feminine, it's

(57:59):
sexy.
I think pearls are somethingevery lady should have.

Tiffany Woolley (58:04):
Yeah.

Jacob Kodner (58:05):
I will bet you will not bump into anyone else
this week really wearing a pearlon.
We're not bumping anyone elsethis week really wearing a pearl
on.
It's just you know it's themarket you look at like fur
coats.

Tiffany Woolley (58:15):
So that's a whole other item.

Jacob Kodner (58:16):
A whole other item that we come across at the
auction, which you know, that'san interesting thing because
we're in, you know, Palm Beach,Florida, you know, is there a
big need for a sable coat?

Tiffany Woolley (58:26):
You know, I don't know, yeah, but it's funny
you say that because I wasrandomly just thinking the other
day, when I first moved toFlorida, I had my grandmother's
fur coat and it was kind ofold-school style or what have
you.
I shouldn't say when I firstmoved to Florida, but I had this
and as a teenager I was like Iwould love to.
It's beautiful, it's like awhite mink.

(58:46):
There was a furry on Palmettopark road really, yes,
interesting, and it's like socrazy like that's not around
anymore, like just the art of,like the people who really did
care and had a craft or a trade,yeah, is diminishing back to to

(59:09):
watchmaking, back to being acobbler.

Jacob Kodner (59:12):
There's so many different industries.

Scott Woolley (59:14):
Just from the interior design industry.
It's a lot of cracks.

Jacob Kodner (59:18):
Oh, I'm sure woodworking and marble carving
stuff like that so difficult.

Tiffany Woolley (59:23):
So difficult and even with marble carving I
mean, you can't get the same outof non-real stone from you know
the earth, you know, but I dobelieve it's coming back.
I feel like the finer thingspeople always still gravitate
back.
Yeah, but I do feel like it'sour duty to keep it forefront

(59:47):
and continue to.

Jacob Kodner (59:48):
Keep the spark lit .
Yeah, for sure well, like I sawin your studio, there was that
one kitchen and I was like, wow,what a tribute to like deco
with the bronze and the brownsand I was like that looks like a
yacht meets.
Uh, you know, miami in the 80s.

Tiffany Woolley (01:00:03):
I'm like that is killer well, and those are
the things that you don't walkin and be like, oh, that was
done in 2020, or oh, that wasdone in 2019.
And that's that eclecticbackdrop that I just I really do
gravitate to.
Sure, I do.

Jacob Kodner (01:00:20):
Yeah, you know, like I said, it goes back to
trends and what people aredigging.
You know, and I still think andI still talk about just the
interactions you me and madisonhad during our renovation.
It was really just funny andentertaining or anything,
tiffany, look at this.
No, madison, no, no, no, no.

Tiffany Woolley (01:00:42):
Put it in storage no, we got a few in
there.
We did get a few in there.
I got my trunk in the bedroomthat I wanted, which, uh, I like
that.
And those have had like a whatkind of trunk?

Jacob Kodner (01:00:52):
I have a large Louis Vuitton wardrobe trunk
Again a historic piece.
That thing could have come overon a transatlantic cruise at
one time, for all I know.

Tiffany Woolley (01:00:59):
And it's such an interesting size too.

Scott Woolley (01:01:02):
Is it like ours or?

Tiffany Woolley (01:01:05):
It's tall and narrow.

Jacob Kodner (01:01:07):
It's like this way versus like a top opening.

Scott Woolley (01:01:12):
I was in the 90s, I was in Ohio, in this little
town, shooting a television show, and I went to lunch with a
bunch of the guys and next doorto the little deli or diner that
we were eating was the storewith like just crap in it.
Yeah, yeah, and I looked in thewindow and they had this big,
gigantic Louis Vuitton trunk.
That's awesome.
And I thought, wow, that'sreally cool.

(01:01:34):
I went inside and I asked themhow much it was and it was like
$99.
He's like no, $99.

Tiffany Woolley (01:01:41):
$99.
I mean, did you ever have itevaluated?

Scott Woolley (01:01:44):
No, I was like I said, okay, great, no, but
that's the stuff that's valuable.
Today I gave the guy a $100bill and he was like well, it's
taxed.
And I gave him whatever and I'mlike wait a minute, how am I
taking this home?
He says, can you ship this?
And he's like, yeah, we can dothat for you.

(01:02:05):
I said I'll come back laterthis afternoon because he didn't
know A truck.
Yeah, and one of the guys whowas with me said hey, you
already bought it, it's worthsomething.
Yeah, so I paid it and, sureenough, a week later it does, it
comes, you know.
And then it sat in my houseforever.
And then Tiffany and I gotmarried and one day we opened it
up yeah, you know, in mintcondition inside 1903.

Jacob Kodner (01:02:29):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Scott Woolley (01:02:30):
And on the side of it has like a people's name
like a family's name, the oldlabels and stuff.

Jacob Kodner (01:02:35):
A family's name?
Oh, the monogram.

Scott Woolley (01:02:37):
Yeah, wow, that's cool, but it's you know, and we
for years now have just put allof our ski stuff in it because
it has the trays that come out,ski stuff.
But we had a guy who was like Iremember the guy, he was an
auction guy.
He probably I can't rememberhis name, but you probably know
of him but he was like oh, it'sworth a lot of money.
Those are worth money.

Jacob Kodner (01:02:57):
Yeah, yeah.
We have in our upcoming Augustsale about eight or ten Louis
Vuitton luggage items, rangingfrom giant ladies' hat holders
to some luggage oh, those wouldbe so nice.

Scott Woolley (01:03:08):
Yeah, he was telling us, it's worth upwards
of $20,000.
Yeah could be.
He wanted to like.
You got to sell this, you gotto sell that.

Jacob Kodner (01:03:17):
But that goes back to trends.
I mean years ago these weren'tas hot as they are today.
And the advent of social mediaand all of the auctions being
live.
You see what they're bringingout.

Scott Woolley (01:03:26):
But it's like a piece of junk that the guy in
the store probably thought butfor $99,.
He didn't know and I didn'tknow, I didn't know.

Jacob Kodner (01:03:35):
Well, you go to the Louis Vuitton store in Boca.
They have a trunk in there fordisplay, but you can buy it.
And out of curiosity, I'm like,how much is this thing?
It's a six-figure piece, Sixfigures.
I'm like, whoa, I have one.
You want to pay?

Scott Woolley (01:03:47):
me half that.
You can have it like sixfigures six figures for all of
the.

Tiffany Woolley (01:03:50):
I mean this has every trunk, every drawer you
click a button, a mirror popsout but this is the same, and
what we have is no, it's notlike no, but it has a beautiful
one.

Scott Woolley (01:03:59):
Well, no, no, okay, it's not modern.
So tonight, 1903, yeah, butit's in mint condition, they're
valuable, they are valuable,perfect, beautiful condition.
Yeah, it sits underneath ourbaby grand piano in the house.

Jacob Kodner (01:04:12):
But again, going back to what you said earlier,
that piece has a story, correct?
You remember?
It's a curated item that youbrought into your house to
curate your own, you know museum, if you will yeah you know,
everything has a story.
Yeah, and there's a story andpeople allowing and saying
tiffany, we trust you do whatyou need to do.
That's a story in peopleallowing and saying Tiffany, we
trust you Do what you need to do.
That's a story in itself also.

Tiffany Woolley (01:04:32):
Oh, everyone, and they all mean so much to me.
It's like every project.
They're all different and Ilove that too, that they're all
end users.
They're not all like they'reperfect for the people who live
there.
They're not like model housesthat you know.
They all have a story.

Scott Woolley (01:04:53):
So we appreciate you coming in and spending some
time with us.
You need to keep us up to dateon when your next auction is.
That's alive, because we wantto attend.

Jacob Kodner (01:05:01):
I will let you guys know the next live sale,
absolutely We'll bring a coupleof our other friends.
We'll make it a date.

Scott Woolley (01:05:07):
No, we'll make it a fun night.
Yeah, no, it is fun.
No, we'll make it a fun night.
Yeah, no, it is fun.

Jacob Kodner (01:05:09):
We always enjoy.
We have typically monthly sales.
Our July sale is an inventorycloseout sale.
We're just cleaning out thewarehouse.
It's about 400 items.
I think we're startingeverything at like $5.

Voice Over (01:05:21):
Just whatever I should come with it girl $5.

Jacob Kodner (01:05:23):
Let it all go.
Just, whatever you guys want tobid on, do it.
That's online only because wehave it in a couple different
warehouses.
But we're just moving stuff.
We take it.
We need the space for seasonRight.
August is where we're havingthat Louis Vuitton and a bunch
of other stuff, but September,october, maybe November is when
we'll do that live sale.
But yeah, I'd love to have youguys, it'd be fun.
Yeah, we'll bring a couplecouples in.

Tiffany Woolley (01:05:53):
Well, thank you , Jacob.

Voice Over (01:05:54):
Thank you guys.
Yeah, appreciate it.
Good story, Great story.
Thanks for watching andlistening to iDesign Lab.
Idesign Lab's podcast is an SWGroup production in association
with the Five Star and TWInteriors.
To learn more about iDesign Labor TW Interiors, please visit
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