February 21, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, we discuss Week 7 of the Idaho Legislature, including final legislative approval of Idaho's first voucher bill, House Bill 93. We also talk to IEA member and Rigby High School librarian, Heidi Robbins, about the impact of 2024 library legislation and IEA's new Library Committee.
Host: Mike Journee
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Music.
Mike Journee (00:12):
Welcome to the IAEA reporter podcast, a regular
discussion about the news andevents important to Idaho
Education Association membersand those who value public
education. IEA members arepublic school educators from all
over the state and members ofthe largest union in Idaho.
They're Idaho's most importanteducation experts, and they use
their influence to fight for afree, quality and equitable
(00:34):
public education for everystudent in the state. I'm Mike
Journee, communications directorat DIA and I'll be your host for
this episode. Today, we talkedto Heidi Robbins, an IEA member
and school librarian in Rigby,Idaho, who is chairperson of the
IEA new library committee, whichwas created at IEA annual
delegate Assembly last April. Wediscussed 2020 four's house code
(00:57):
710 better known as the librarybill, which gives anyone the
right to question theavailability of books in school
or community libraries that theydeem inappropriate or offensive.
But first, a quick summary ofwhat happened this week during
the 2025 legislature with IAEApolitical director, Chris Perry.
(01:22):
Chris Perry, welcome back to theIAEA reporter podcast, and let's
take a quick look at what'shappened at the Idaho
legislature for the over thepast several days, we haven't
done an update like this for acouple of weeks, and so there's
been a lot of movement on someimportant bills for IAEA
members, anybody who's beenpaying attention to the news
over the past few days, have hasheard that the Idaho Senate
(01:46):
approved House Bill 93 on a 20to 15 vote. That was the final
legislative approval of whatwould be Idaho's first voucher
legislation. It is a tax creditbill brought forward by
Representative Wendy Horman outof Idaho, falls, and that bill
(02:07):
has gone through. And it's,it's, it's been a really
unfortunate process to watchthis bill come through, Chris,
not you and I have talked aboutthis number of times there. The
bill has zero accountabilitymeasures that Governor little
called for in his State of theState address at the beginning
of the legislative session. Andin fact, we're leaning on, we're
(02:28):
asking members to to call thegovernor's office and veto this
bill.
Chris Parri (02:34):
Yeah, it's a bad bill. I mean, there's no way
around it. It. I think it's bad,even by voucher standards, which
is a unique accomplishment, butI guess after you've failed, you
know, upwards of 15 times to getsomething like this done, you
don't really end up with thebest version of it when it it
makes it out of the legislaturefor the first time. So, yeah,
(02:56):
it's a really bad bill. Doesn'thave any accountability in it.
There's kind of no way tocontort your mind into thinking
that it fits the standards laidout by the governor of fair,
accountable, reasonable andtransparent. It's not fair. It
will, most of this money will goto people who are already in
private schools. It's notaccountable. There's no like
(03:17):
enforcement on, you know, makingsure that private schools
actually like serve students.
It's not responsible for thesame reason. There's no like
reporting back. It doesn't holdpeople to account to like Idaho
values at all. Like it allowspeople just to freely
discriminate using taxpayerdollars, and then clearly not
transparent either. Because ifwe could figure out what some of
these private schools areactually teaching, using these
(03:38):
these public dollars to be evenmore of a public outcry. So
right now, we are in the midstof that public outcry. I think
that this is one of those issuesthat it's, you know, it's not
just the education groups thatare really concerned about it.
This one is really brokencontainment and gone. Kind of
universal. People are justreally mad about this
(03:58):
legislation across the board.
You know, our polling showedthat 94% of people wanted at
least background checks if wewere going to go down this road.
94% like, I feel like the other6% are the people who voted for
it in the legislature. So, yeah,it's not a good bill. It's
(04:19):
headed to the governor's desk.
We are trying to get members andother folks to contact the
governor and ask for that veto.
Unknown (04:27):
And yeah, it's, it's been a rough couple weeks.
Mike Journee (04:32):
Well, I, you know, I want to point out that vote
comes after tremendous pressurefrom the voucher lobby, the
National voucher lobby that havebeen spending millions of
dollars in Idaho on electionsand spending millions of dollars
lobbying lawmakers on this, onthis, on trying to get vouchers
in Idaho. Hats off to you forthe turnout that we have had in
(04:54):
opposition. Hats off to thelawmakers who have resisted
that. You know, a.
Unknown (05:00):
Veto proof. I'm sorry, veto sustaining minority is
available to the governor if hedecides to veto this bill,
according to the votes of boththe House and the Senate, we're
the last red statein the country that doesn't have
some kind of a voucher program.
And Chris, that's Hats off toyour the hard work that you've
been doing over the past fewyears, as well as the influence
(05:21):
of the IEA, so. So hats off toyou guys and for this work. But
we do want to kill this bill,and I'm just going to put put
out there right now. And forthose who are interested in
reading more, we will have theycan go to Idaho, ea.org,
backslash news, and read moreabout this legislation, but, but
I wanted to put the governor'semail address in here, and also
(05:42):
his phone number and encouragepeople to call right away and
tell the governor to beat thoselegislation. His email address
is governor@gov.idaho.gov alittle bit redundant, but that's
where it is.And then the phonenumber is 208334210, 3342100,
(06:03):
call, email, let them know thatit's time to veto this
legislation.
Chris Parri (06:08):
And you mentioned the vote counts on these things,
I want to point out exactly howclose is. So you know, in the in
the house, it was, I think, 28to 42 I believe, and and then in
the Senate, it was 20 to 15.
Those numbers can be a littlebit seething, because it's only
half of the difference that youneed to make up to kill one of
these bills. So on the Senate,if you look at that, you need we
(06:31):
lost in the Senate by threevotes, essentially three, which
is certainly in the margin oferror, almost in, like a primary
election, right? Like, ifthere's any sign that those,
those primary elections have amassive impact on education
policy, this is the one youshould take. Because if had we
won three of the primary seatsthat that we wanted to last,
(06:55):
May, wewould have beatenvouchers yet again, right?
There's a reason that the thepro voucher group spent $2
million trying to get a couplewins here. And to be honest,
their record is not that greaton winning. They spent $2
million and, you know, and gotbarely enough seats to get
vouchers done, right? This isnot like a overwhelming victory
(07:18):
for them
Mike Journee (07:20):
and and I think we can see that sentiment too, just
in the reaction that we've hadto our social media posts on Ida
social media channels regardingthis, people are sharing, people
are liking, people arecommenting. People are are it's
it's something that we also knowthat that especially on the
House Committee, the emails thatthe that the committees received
(07:41):
and that lawmakers received werenine to one saying, don't pass
this bill.
Chris Parri (07:46):
It's worse than nine to one. It was like 93% or
something. We're against it.
It's just absolutely ridiculous.
Like, you know, I hope peopledon't get cynical, like, we
should keep reaching out topeople. And, yeah, it is pretty
crazy when you get 93% of folksto say, don't do this, and then
they just do it. So no worriesthere. If people are feeling a
little bit grumpy, me too,
Mike Journee (08:05):
and that's, and that's, you know, I think that
that's testament to the to theout of state influence here and
what's going on, and the factthat this is not done the Idaho
way, as the governor called forin his State of the State dress
well, we got some otherterritory we want to cover, so I
want to move on, but I do wantto encourage people to go ahead
and make those calls and emailsto the governor to encourage
them to do the right thing withthis legislation. Another bill
(08:28):
that's been that we've beenfollowing Chris that directly
impacts the IEA, is a unionbusting bill that's been brought
forward. It was passed by theHouse last week, and in awaits a
hearing in the Senate side. Thisis a union bus to go through and
through it would really impactthe way IEA members are able to
collaborate with their withtheir school districts. It
(08:49):
really hampers their ability todo the work of the Union. And in
fact, one provision of it wouldtake away union members ability
to pay their dues via payrolldeduction, and so, of course,
that's something that the IEAhas been working on diligently
over the past year and a half.
Everyone who is listening whohas not converted to IEA auto
pay to pay their union dues.
(09:13):
They need to do so right away,please, so that the impact of
this bill will be as minimal aspossible on their union, you can
go to idahoea.org and and underthe member section, you can go
down to Idaho IEA auto pay andfind all the information you
need about convertingthat billis waiting a hearing Chris on
(09:35):
the Senate side. We're not surewhen that will happen, but we'll
be keeping an eye on that.
Chris Parri (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, if and when that bill moves forward, we
will let members know, andthere'll be actions we can take.
But like you said, it's just abad bill. Get your apparel
deduction for no real reasonother than it, the people that
sponsored it and the groupspushing it hit unions, every
union the state is lined up inopposition against it, along
with the school administratorswho view this as like it. It's a
(10:00):
huge red flag, I think, forpeople, if the administrators
are against it, they're on oneside of the bargaining table.
We're on the other side. So if,if it's a union busting bill
that the administrators areagainst, then it actually has
pretty broad impacts on schooldistricts that even the
administrators don't want tosee. So this bill, there's no
way around it. It hurts kids andit hurts teachers and it hurts
administrators. This is just abad bill pushed by an out of
(10:23):
state group funded bybillionaires. So, yeah, awful.
Mike Journee (10:28):
That's right, we'll be keeping an eye on all
that members know. One otherthing that I want to touch on
before we wrap up is the factthat the I the legislature's
budget committee, Jay Thacker,the Joint Finance and
appropriations committee, hasbeen talking about pay raises
for state employees, which wouldinclude educators this year, a
5% pay raise is what's beendiscussed. Typically, these
(10:52):
budget bills come come forwardat the end of the session, after
all, the policy has been draftedby the various committees, and
then the Budget Committee willcome through and fund the things
that what the committee wants tofund, and at the levels that
they want to fund, but theconversations right now are
around a 5% pay increase andeducators will be included.
That's great news for ourmembers, but even better news
(11:12):
Chris is the fact that SenatorJim Woodward, out of North
Idaho, is bringing a bill thatcould in better, that could
improve that pay raise, the payraise that educators received a
few legislative sessions ago,the $6,359 average that was part
of it was never put into theIdaho career ladder, the
(11:36):
framework for funding educatorpay in The state. And his bill
would do that. And so that raisewould then compound the 5% that
that would they would raise ifthe bill for state pay rate,
state pay raises goes throughjfac, this is good news for
educators. It's going to be moremoney in educators pockets all
the way across the board, butwe're really paying close
(11:58):
attention to that.
Chris Parri (12:00):
Yeah. Huge shout out to Senator Woodward up in
north Idaho. He's been probablyone of the staunchest supporters
of public education in this, inthe entire legislature. And
yeah, his bill is great. It getsit kind of the raises that that
the legislature have. They'vebeen funding the raises. But I
think at the bargaining table,maybe some of our educators have
(12:21):
experienced this. The schoolboards are a little bit hesitant
to always, kind of grant anongoing raise, if the decision
is always up to the jfaccommittee to provide that money.
So sometimes the school boardswill agree to, like a, you know,
a bonus. We'll see what thelegislature does next year. This
bill helps kind of somecertainty that this money will
(12:43):
be there, will be there forEducator pay, and then, like you
said, we add 5% rate raise ontop of that, and it goes to both
educators and administrators,which I think is important. I
think a lot of folks, I thinkare now more than ever, seeing
the issues that we have withrecruiting and retaining amazing
administrators, and howimportant that is for a
(13:05):
workplace as well. So yeah, Ithink this is, this is good. The
Good News of the session is thatit looks like educators and
administrators will be able toto get some some extra money in
their pockets. So
Mike Journee (13:22):
Well, Chris, that's all the topics we had to
discuss this this week. I wantto thank you again for joining
us, and again, thank you for allthe work that you're doing down
at the State House on behalf ofIda members. It's been a it's
been a monumental session sofar, and a lot of ways
groundbreaking, not necessarilyin good ways, but but it is also
something that that we'realways, we're always on top of,
(13:44):
and you've been doing just fine,fine work down there. So thank
you for that.
Chris Parri (13:47):
Thanks, Mike. One last thing too, like, I want
people to know, like, vouchersmight go through. You know,
there's attacks on unions, allof this stuff. Your union, the
IEA, is not going anywhere. Wedon't exist because the
government says we're we can weexist in spite often of the
government. We exist becauseteachers want us to exist and
(14:10):
that it's good for kids. It'sgood for school districts to
have us there in collaboratingwith districts for the benefit
of our communities and ourstudents. I know it can feel
hopeless sometimes, but we'renot going anywhere. You guys
aren't going anywhere. Yourstudents aren't going anywhere.
Keep your heads up. They wantyou to be discouraged, but it's
up to us to not not bediscouraged, to remain resilient
(14:31):
and hopeful for the folks thatneed us. So keep that in mind.
Keep fighting for you.
Mike Journee (14:39):
Well said, Chris, thank you, my friend. Talk to
you soon.
Next up on the IAEA reporterpodcast, a discussion about
2020, four's House Bill 710better known as the library Bill
and I A's new library committee.
Joining me is IEA member. AndRigby high school librarian.
(15:00):
Heidi Robbins,well. Heidi Robbins, thank you
for joining the IAEA reporterpodcast and talking with us
today about libraries and allthe wonderful things that you
guys are doing with IE librarycommittee,
Heidi Robbins (15:22):
yeah, thank you for having me
Mike Journee (15:26):
so you're a school librarian in Rigby. Can you tell
us a little bit about yourlibrary and how large it is, how
many students you serve, thatkind of thing?
Heidi Robbins (15:34):
Sure. Yeah. I am the librarian at Rigby High
School. We are the only highschool in our school district.
We have 2100 students just overI'm the only one in the library,
and I actually teach classestoo. So it's it's a lot, it's a
lot different than maybe some ofthe bigger schools in the Boise
year Meridian area, which I loveit, though it's great. Teaching
(15:57):
classes keeps me grounded withkids sometimes, and we have a
kind of a small collection. Wehave just over 6000 books, which
isn't a lot for the size ofschool we have, but I've been
the librarian. This is my thirdyear here, and we have been
working to update our collectionwith a lot of grants. We've been
really lucky to get some grants,and it's great. We check out.
(16:19):
Last year, we checked out justover 10,000 books, which is
phenomenal for our little ourlittle community. And, yeah,
Mike Journee (16:29):
well, that's fantastic. So tell me, I've
always the idea of beinglibrarian has always been so
appealing to me. How did you getdrawn to this profession? Why
did you choose to do it?
Heidi Robbins (16:39):
So I lived in Washington state for a while,
and in Washington State, youhave to have done student
teaching and get a certificationto be a sub. So I was a
certified teacher. So I got mysub certification, and I started
working in my children'selementary school as a sub. And
I subbed in the library a lot,and I met this amazing
(17:00):
librarian, and she just, I'veloved reading. I have I'm an
English teacher, you know, andshe just instilled this like
excitement around librarianship,and she told me about the
program that she went through atCentral Washington University to
get her certification. And Ithought, why not? And so I did
(17:20):
it. I got my master's degreethrough them. I never
anticipated moving back toIdaho, where I grew up, but we
ended up moving back, and Ihappened to move into a
community that needed acertified librarian, which I
wasn't expecting. And so I kindof just fell into it. I feel
like it just, you know, Fate,Fate brought me here.
Mike Journee (17:41):
So, you know, I know just generally for
educators, the past few yearshave been really, really
difficult, you know, with thepandemic and coming out of the
pandemic and how educators havehave really kind of been
centered on in these culturalwars that we're talking about in
education policies these days.
But one of the more surprisingthings for me has been how
(18:03):
libraries and librarians havereally been in the crosshairs of
that more than any single groupof educators. Probably, can you
tell us a little bit about whatthe past few years have been
like for you, having chosen aprofession that you love and
that find great value, and howhas these past few years felt to
you?
Heidi Robbins (18:24):
Yeah, I have my ups and downs. I love my job. I
have the best job in the world.
So many people say My dream jobis to be a librarian. It's so
great, but I really got intolibrarianship as all of this
culture war type feeling isexploding, and so I really don't
know a lot different. This haskind of been my whole librarian
(18:46):
experience. There's a lot offear. I talk to a lot of
librarians. I try tocollaborate. I really like to
reach out and get to know otherlibrarians, because it makes me
feel less alone, because itisn't kind of a lonely job. And
I would say that we're all kindof scared. I feel like I'm on
the chopping block literallyevery year. I don't know if my
(19:06):
job's gonna get cut. I know myadmin values me. I know that my
co workers value me. I know thatmy students value me. But that
doesn't mean I don't feel afraidthat my job is gonna get cut or
that my funding is, you know,always going to be there. It's,
it's really scary. And I thinkall librarians kind of feel that
right now, not just in ourstate, but across the country.
(19:27):
It's a, it's a scary place to bein. People feel very deeply
their values, and when they feellike you're in the way of their
values, it, it can be a scaryplace to be. Yeah, yeah,
Mike Journee (19:43):
that was really well said in the way of people's
values, and that's kind of wherethings are. I think a lot of the
angst that you're talking aboutreally came about, really kind
of crystallized, I think perhapslast legislative session with
House Bill 70.
Heidi Robbins (20:00):
Me, and which has become known ubiquitously as the
library bill. Unfortunately,Governor little signed into law.
Would you talk a little bitabout this law, what it does and
and, well, then we'll talk aboutthe impacts that it's having on
you, on on you and your yourfellow librarians, but talk a
little bit about this law, what?
Yeah, so this law makes it soanybody within a library
(20:23):
community can request that abook be reconsidered for a
collection and that the accessfor this book to minors be taken
away. It does need to go throughthe library's reconsideration
policy. Which every libraryshould have a reconsideration
policy. If they don't, theyprobably don't have a certified
librarian. They probably don'thave somebody educated in
(20:45):
library, if they don't have it.
So they should go through thisreconsideration policy. If in
the reconsideration guidelines,they decide that they don't want
to move this to an adults onlysection, then the person who
complained about it her or whosubmitted the reconsideration
request, they are allowed to suethe library for up to $250 is
(21:06):
what it says. But what peopledon't realize is they can also
get damages on top of that. Soif they say, this ruined my
child's psyche, this caused mychild to have to go to
counseling, like all thosethings, those costs, can also
come on top of of that, thatlawsuit. So the library does
have the option to move thosebooks to an adults only section
(21:30):
that cannot be accessed byminors.
Mike Journee (21:37):
And I guess one question that I have is, how
many, how many school librarieshave an adults only section?
Heidi Robbins (21:44):
None that I know of. I currently have a place
that I would set it up if Ineeded to, but it would have to
stay behind my circulation desk,and part of it would have to be
none of my library. So Imentioned before that I'm the
only person that runs mylibrary. I don't have any aids,
but I also teach two two hoursof the day. I teach classes two
out of the six hours. So I relyon library aids. Juniors and
(22:08):
Seniors can sign up to aid inthe library, and I train them,
and they run the library for mewhile I'm teaching class. If a
book was reconsidered and had tobe put in an adult Swami section
behind the circulation desk,they are not even allowed to
touch it if they're not 18. Sothat would really put a damper
on me being able to keep mylibrary open.
Mike Journee (22:29):
So what was your initial reaction when you first
heard about this bill? It seemsit would seem to really chill
Freedom ofInformation, freedomof speech, in a way that some of
the bills authors might not haveattended, or maybe they did, I
don't know, but, but what wasyour reaction when you, when
(22:50):
you, when you heard about thisbill?
Heidi Robbins (22:53):
I think my first, my first reaction was,sadly, not
surprised, because they triedother bills before that, right,
that fortunately hadn't passed.
So I was slightly hopeful, butalso I was really scared. It's
something that students wouldcome and ask me about, and I
tried to stay neutral as ateacher, as an educator, that's
my job. But I would tell themwhat it meant, and I would have
(23:16):
kids who would come to me andcheck daily as it was going
through Congress, and they werelike, has it passed? What's
going on? Who do I need to call?
I literally had students whowere like, what do we need to
do? And I would say, contactyour legislator and let them
know how you feel about it, likeyou get to decide. And the
(23:36):
hardest, the hardest group ofkids I have, I have some LGBTQ
kids who would come to me dailybecause they are targeted in
this bill, it does say that anyLGBTQ content is considered
explicit, and these kids feltattacks, and so they would come
to me and they would ask me howit was going, and they were
(23:56):
really scared. And I think forme, like it's hard, because I
want to stand up for my kids.
I'm in this job for those kids,and there's books I give to kids
that they need, that I maybeeven want to give them to my own
children at home, because theydon't need them. And so like,
it's my job as a parent todecide what my own children
read. It's my job as a librarianto have access to whatever
(24:19):
information kids need. Those aretwo different roles, and I felt
like those roles were gettingcrossed. I don't get to decide
what is right or wrong forsomebody else, and I don't want
to have to decide that that istoo much for me. And that feels
like that's what this bill istrying to do, decide what's
right and wrong for every child.
Mike Journee (24:42):
Heidi, what was the reaction to that
legislation? Like in your schooldistrict, you mentioned you got
really good support from youradministration. Can you talk a
little bit about what there didyou see, anything from higher
up, beyond your management ofthe library itself, about this
legislation and any directionthat you got? Yeah.
Heidi Robbins (24:59):
Yeah, so my district actually changed pretty
drastically when I was firsthired. We didn't have a very
solid reconsideration policy forlibraries. Specifically. We had
a blanket one for curriculum,and libraries just kind of fell
under that. And I talked to somehigher ups at the district, and
I said, we need to really changethis. And they were a little
reticent to do it. Instead, theyinstituted a library committee
(25:24):
that had to approve every bookfor every school, and then it
had to get approved by theschool board. Now this is
obviously a very tediousprocess. Each school had their
own Committee. It it. I had$20,000 in grants the year we
did it, and we were meeting allthe time. My committee was so
busy, and they were allvolunteers, parents and
(25:45):
teachers, and it took so muchtime. Well, when this bill
passed, our district realizedthey actually did need a more
solid reconsideration policy, sothey put one in place, and we
got rid of our librarycommittee. I think that's
actually a much better solution.
It's, it's what every libraryshould have. So that was
actually a really positive thingfor us, that we have that
reconsideration policy, and Iwas able to talk through with
(26:06):
some of my leadership beforethey made that policy. Our
director of secondary education,she had talked to me in depth
about what should be in apolicy, and I felt very seen
when it was written. So I doappreciate that. We also have,
like I said, I have a spaceprepared for if and when we get
a challenge. I have forms in mylibrary. I have an enclosed
(26:28):
bookshelf behind my circulationdesk, so I'm ready when that
challenge probably inevitablycomes, unfortunately, but
Mike Journee (26:39):
it hasn't happened yet?
Heidi Robbins (26:41):
No, we haven't had, we haven't had any
challenges escalated yet. As alibrarian, I think every
librarian, excuse me, I thinkevery librarian will say they
have had a parent upset about abook their kid read. And I will
say I have it almost every year,and usually I'm able to talk to
the parent and say, You knowwhat upset you about this book?
Okay? I completely, you know, Ican empathize. I can understand,
(27:04):
as a parent, there's certainthings I don't want my child
reading. I will try to keep aneye on that. For your kid, we do
self checkout, so your kid iskind of in charge of their own
checkout. But when they come in,if they say, you know, I really
don't want a book that has a lotof language in it. I really
don't want a book that has x, y,z in it, whatever it is, then
I'm happy to point them to booksthat fit their needs, because
(27:27):
that's my job. That's what I'mhere for. And usually parents
are actually really willing totalk. I haven't had any that
have been too riled. I've had tomeet with a principal in the
room only one time, and luckily,he was level headed and helped
me out, and we were able to cometo terms. And I've never had to
escalate beyond that, but Idon't think that will be the
(27:49):
case my whole career, not withthe political climate we're in.
Mike Journee (27:55):
Yeah, that's a really that's a really great
point. I mean, my next questionwas going to be, what are you
hearing from parents about thechanges? I mean, they have, I'm
not sure if it's visible to themor not. Your students might need
who have been paying attentionto the bill might know. But are
you hearing anything else fromparents about this legislation?
Heidi Robbins (28:16):
I would say in my area, the people that know about
it are the people who didn'twant it. I feel like sometimes
maybe we stay in our lane to ourdetriment. Sometimes people
don't know what affects themuntil it actually affects them.
And I think that's kind of thecase with this bill. I think
until they realize that if ourschool gets sued and we lose
(28:39):
funding for certain things,they're not going to realize
that it affects them. I have hadconversations with lots of
parents with all the otherlibrarians in my district, so
I'm the only certified librarianin my district. The rest are
paras, and so as such, I try tosupport them as much as
possible, and this has been ahuge area where they've needed
support, because there have beensome schools where there have
(29:01):
been parents a little bit moreangry than what I've had to deal
with, and I've been able to talkthem through it, with how they
deal with it, but also teachingthem about what the bill
actually means. We've had toteach admin, you know, like we
don't actually pull books untilthere's an official challenge.
We don't have to move them untilthere's an official challenge.
So understanding what the lawactually says is a little bit
(29:23):
different than realizing thatthere is a lot in place.
Mike Journee (29:27):
It's really interesting because it sounds
like your, your your schooldistrict was, was really
thoughtful about their approachto this, how they how they
developed the policies andeverything, you know we had
there. There are districts inIdaho that began pulling books
right away. One here in theTreasure Valley is a big one
that started doing that kind ofthing. So that's really
heartening to hear that they hada very thoughtful reaction to to
(29:51):
the legislation and and, and Ilove hearing you say you're
prepared. You got the forms, yougot things there, you've got a
section already ready to go, I'msure. That that any of the other
librarians and around the statewho are listening this year are
probably taking notes about thatso so well done.
Unknown (30:07):
Thank you. Yeah, we were really lucky. I honestly
wasn't sure which way mydistrict would go, because I was
so new, but I think we reallylucked out, and I feel like I
really do have a supportivecommunity with the parents that
I have talked to. But again, youdon't, I don't know everyone.
2100 students is a lot, so we'llsee what happens. Well, last
(30:29):
year, you were a delegate to IEAdelegate assembly, and you
brought forward a new businessitem to form an IEA library
committee. What was behind thatwas, was, was this part of the
your kind of reaction to thelegislation? And what else is
(30:49):
behind that?
Heidi Robbins (30:51):
Yeah, it was definitely a reaction to this
legislation. I It's kind of afunny little story. I am kind of
new to the Union. This is mythird year in it, the first year
I was a librarian, I was like, Ihave to join. The year before,
when I was a teacher, I washired last minute, and it didn't
even cross my mind, because Iwas trying to survive. But my
(31:11):
first year as a librarian, Ithought, there are these bills
that are trying to come. I needto join. I need to have a group
of people that I know have myback. So I joined, but I didn't
really get involved. And thenover the summer, I got involved,
and I just loved it, and I metso many people, and I met Lane
mcinelli, and he took me, like,to this leadership conference in
Chicago, which is amazing. Andthen I decided to do delegate
(31:34):
assembly. And at mini da, he andI were talking, and he was like,
Are you going to do a newbusiness item about libraries?
And I said, Well, I kind of havethis idea, but it's my first
time. I don't even know howdelegate assembly goes. I'm not
sure if I should do it or not.
And he was like, why not justtry it? And I said, Okay, I'll
jump in. So I decided to justmake this committee. My reason
behind making the committee wasto give librarians within the
(31:59):
IEA, a support system. I havementioned that I'm the only
certified librarian in my schooldistrict. I did get one of my
para librarians did join the IEAthis year, which makes me really
excited, but a lot of parentsdon't want to because they don't
make enough money, and so Iwanted, I wanted them to feel
like, okay, there is a reasonfor me to join. There's a reason
(32:20):
for me to be there. But thenalso I wanted those who are
already members to feel like I'mseen within the union. A lot of
the things that we hear aboutwithin the IEA have to do with
classroom teachers, which isamazing. We have so many
classroom teachers, and we needto support them, but we as
librarians, are islands. We'reislands in our schools,
sometimes islands in ourdistrict, and we need a support
(32:41):
system that that we can go towhen we have questions, when we
don't know how to deal with thisbill, when we don't know a book
to recommend a student, evensomething that's simple, this
committee is what that's for. Wedo book talks. We are going to
do a talk about grants. We'regoing to do talks about all
these different things andanything that's an important to
(33:01):
a topic to librarians. We wantto talk about it, and we want to
bring librarians together.
Mike Journee (33:08):
How's it going so far? What, what is our what has
been the reaction so far? Areyou getting people who are
interested and andparticipating?
Heidi Robbins (33:17):
Yeah, we are.
It's a slow burn. I feel like,at first, you know, people are
really excited, and then theyrealize how busy they are. But
we have solid members of thecommittee. We have people
literally on every area of thestate who are part of this
committee, and I'm hearing thatthey want to keep it going. So
that's my plan for delegateAssembly this year, is to do
another new business item tokeep this library committee
(33:40):
going, because last year's itmade it last for a year. So we
want to, we want to keep itgoing, and we just want to grow
it. We I want people from everyregion represented on our
committee, so anybody listening,if they're interested. I, I
would love to have moreinvolvement. But we also do our
monthly book chats that anylibrarian can jump on at any
(34:00):
time for 10 minutes, if theywant to and talk about books, or
if they have something else theyreally need to talk about. We're
here for it. We're open to it.
And then we're going to havequarterly chats about different
topics. I mentioned grants. Wehave some other topics that we
would like to talk about, andanything that librarians need
(34:21):
support with. That's, that'swhat we want to do, and we just
want to keep it going.
Mike Journee (34:25):
Yeah, I was going to mention I heard that you guys
had a session coming up aboutgrant writing and getting, and
grants are an important part ofwhat you do. You've written them
several times just so far, andso it's, I would imagine that's
going to be a topic that peoplewould be really interested in.
Heidi Robbins (34:41):
Yeah, I have a unique situation. I have great
admins, but I have zero funding,so my budget is literally no
money unless I can raise itmyself. So to me, that's a
challenge, and I write grantsconstantly, so it's a topic that
I so very deeply, and I know alot of librarians, even if they
have a budget, maybe. Be it's acouple $100 that they can buy 10
(35:02):
books, if they're lucky. So Iknow that's not enough, so it's
a really important topic.
Mike Journee (35:09):
Great. Have you or your colleagues discussed ways
to push back and advocate forstudents access to books? I
mean, either part of thiscommittee or in other ways, is
that something that's an ongoingconversation with you guys?
Heidi Robbins (35:21):
Yeah, within the committee, we've had
conversations about what everyschool is doing. How are how are
you handling things? How are youtalking to administrators? I
think a lot of a lot of mycolleagues across the state,
maybe have administrators whodon't understand libraries or
the need for libraries. Maybethey don't understand the need
for students to be able to readwhatever they want, things like
(35:43):
that. So we have been able tohelp share what we're doing,
which I think is a really greatresource. What's working and
what isn't working. In otherdistricts, you can't always fix
the problem for them, but maybeyou can even just offering
support, saying, Hey, we're hereif you need to talk it through.
I know that there, you know,there is a lawsuit right now
(36:03):
going on, and I have talked topeople as that was going around
since I don't have anychallenges in my district. I
wasn't super helpful, but I wasable to talk through things with
them. And I know, you know, aslibrarians, we're all trying to
do what we can to get kidsaccess to the books they need.
And I think just hearing thatother people are not pulling
books if we don't have to, andother people are displaying
(36:27):
books that maybe are a littlebit more controversial and that
it's going okay, gives othersthe courage to keep pushing
through. I
Mike Journee (36:38):
was going to ask you how you mentioned in your
your district, so far, your inyour library, so far, there
hasn't really been anychallenges. What are you hearing
a lot of challenges from, fromacross the state. Is, uh, from
your colleagues. It
Heidi Robbins (36:53):
really depends on the region they're from. I think
a lot of people know the regionsthat are having the most
challenges, or the districtsthat are having the most
challenges. I think it's veryconcentrated right now. Do I
think there's a possibility ofit spreading? Of course, I do,
but I do for the most part, itseems like it is concentrated in
certain areas. And I don't thinkit's hard for anybody to do a
(37:14):
little search and find out booksthat are being banned in Idaho
and where they're being banned.
The interesting thing is that itsometimes brings conversations
with students. They'll pick up abook, and I'll be like, oh my
goodness, did you know this wasjust banned in Idaho, in another
area, and they'll be like, why?
And I'll say, I have no idea.
Why don't you read it and tellme what you think. And then they
love it, like, there's there'sbooks that I love, that I'm
floored are being banned incertain areas, and it makes kids
(37:37):
excited to read them. I mean,obviously I know which kids are
going to be okay with them andwhich aren't, but that's my job,
and it's kind of made some greatconversation starters.
Mike Journee (37:50):
Yeah, that's fantastic. You just made my
thing.So tell us a little bitabout how anybody who's
interested in getting involvedwith the library committee. Tell
us a little bit about how theycan do that.
Heidi Robbins (38:01):
Yeah, if anybody's interested in being on
the library committee or evenjust joining our chats, if you
want to shoot me an email, I amhappy to share my email address.
It's kind of long. It's my fullname, Heidi Maxine
robbins@yahoo.com, H, E, I D, Im, a, x, I N, E, R, O, B, B, I
N, s@yahoo.com, if you shoot mean email, I am happy to invite
you to our next committeemeeting. If you just want to
(38:24):
join our chats, we are trying tosend those out. We send out QR
codes. We try to share it onsocial media. We're going to try
to create a Facebook page justfor librarians within the IEA,
and we will share that. It'sgoing to be a private group.
That way you have the ability toask questions and have a safe
space so not just anybody cansee what we're talking about,
(38:45):
because sometimes there'ssensitive topics that you fear
for your job or your fear foryour view from the community,
those are some things we'regoing to do. So please be
watching for that. And if you'reat delegate assembly, please
find me. I will be presenting anew business item in for this
committee, and I would be sohappy to talk libraries with
you, or just hear from somebodythat's like, thank you. I'm in
(39:08):
this fight too. Like, I justwant to, I want to connect with
you if you're a librarian or ifyou are a teacher that just
loves your librarian. I want tohear from you
Mike Journee (39:20):
that's fantastic.
And feeling you'll probably havea few folks take you up on that.
So that's that's wonderful.
Heidi, thank you so much for theconversation. Thank you so much
for what you do on a day to daybasis. Thank you for your
involvement with the IAEA andyour union. You're doing
fantastic work and and itcouldn't be any more important
(39:40):
than it is right now to do whatyou do. And so thank you for
standing up for students. Thankyou for standing up for for
freedom of ideas and freedom ofexpression and for for
everything you do every day.
Heidi Robbins (39:53):
Well, thank you for having me. I really
appreciate it. You.
Mike Journee (40:01):
thank you for listening to this episode of The
IEA reporter podcast, and thanksto IEA member Heidi Robbins and
IEA political director ChrisPerry for joining us. Please
watch for updates about newpodcast episodes on IAEA social
media channels or sign up toreceive IAEA reporter emailed
updates on ourwebsite@idahoea.org I'm Mike
Journee, and as always, I hopeyou join me in thanking Idaho's
(40:25):
public school educators foreverything they do for our State
students, families and publicschools. You
Music.
Mike Journee (00:12):
Welcome to the IAEA reporter podcast, a regular
discussion about the news andevents important to Idaho
Education Association membersand those who value public
education. IEA members arepublic school educators from all
over the state and members ofthe largest union in Idaho.
They're Idaho's most importanteducation experts, and they use
their influence to fight for afree, quality and equitable
(00:34):
public education for everystudent in the state. I'm Mike
Journee, communications directorat DIA and I'll be your host for
this episode. Today, we talkedto Heidi Robbins, an IEA member
and school librarian in Rigby,Idaho, who is chairperson of the
IEA new library committee, whichwas created at IEA annual
delegate Assembly last April. Wediscussed 2020 four's house code
(00:57):
710 better known as the librarybill, which gives anyone the
right to question theavailability of books in school
or community libraries that theydeem inappropriate or offensive.
But first, a quick summary ofwhat happened this week during
the 2025 legislature with IAEApolitical director, Chris Perry.
(01:22):
Chris Perry, welcome back to theIAEA reporter podcast, and let's
take a quick look at what'shappened at the Idaho
legislature for the over thepast several days, we haven't
done an update like this for acouple of weeks, and so there's
been a lot of movement on someimportant bills for IAEA
members, anybody who's beenpaying attention to the news
over the past few days, have hasheard that the Idaho Senate
(01:46):
approved House Bill 93 on a 20to 15 vote. That was the final
legislative approval of whatwould be Idaho's first voucher
legislation. It is a tax creditbill brought forward by
Representative Wendy Horman outof Idaho, falls, and that bill
(02:07):
has gone through. And it's,it's, it's been a really
unfortunate process to watchthis bill come through, Chris,
not you and I have talked aboutthis number of times there. The
bill has zero accountabilitymeasures that Governor little
called for in his State of theState address at the beginning
of the legislative session. Andin fact, we're leaning on, we're
(02:28):
asking members to to call thegovernor's office and veto this
bill.
Chris Parri (02:34):
Yeah, it's a bad bill. I mean, there's no way
around it. It. I think it's bad,even by voucher standards, which
is a unique accomplishment, butI guess after you've failed, you
know, upwards of 15 times to getsomething like this done, you
don't really end up with thebest version of it when it it
makes it out of the legislaturefor the first time. So, yeah,
(02:56):
it's a really bad bill. Doesn'thave any accountability in it.
There's kind of no way tocontort your mind into thinking
that it fits the standards laidout by the governor of fair,
accountable, reasonable andtransparent. It's not fair. It
will, most of this money will goto people who are already in
private schools. It's notaccountable. There's no like
(03:17):
enforcement on, you know, makingsure that private schools
actually like serve students.
It's not responsible for thesame reason. There's no like
reporting back. It doesn't holdpeople to account to like Idaho
values at all. Like it allowspeople just to freely
discriminate using taxpayerdollars, and then clearly not
transparent either. Because ifwe could figure out what some of
these private schools areactually teaching, using these
(03:38):
these public dollars to be evenmore of a public outcry. So
right now, we are in the midstof that public outcry. I think
that this is one of those issuesthat it's, you know, it's not
just the education groups thatare really concerned about it.
This one is really brokencontainment and gone. Kind of
universal. People are justreally mad about this
(03:58):
legislation across the board.
You know, our polling showedthat 94% of people wanted at
least background checks if wewere going to go down this road.
94% like, I feel like the other6% are the people who voted for
it in the legislature. So, yeah,it's not a good bill. It's
(04:19):
headed to the governor's desk.
We are trying to get members andother folks to contact the
governor and ask for that veto.
Unknown (04:27):
And yeah, it's, it's been a rough couple weeks.
Mike Journee (04:32):
Well, I, you know, I want to point out that vote
comes after tremendous pressurefrom the voucher lobby, the
National voucher lobby that havebeen spending millions of
dollars in Idaho on electionsand spending millions of dollars
lobbying lawmakers on this, onthis, on trying to get vouchers
in Idaho. Hats off to you forthe turnout that we have had in
(04:54):
opposition. Hats off to thelawmakers who have resisted
that. You know, a.
Unknown (05:00):
Veto proof. I'm sorry, veto sustaining minority is
available to the governor if hedecides to veto this bill,
according to the votes of boththe House and the Senate, we're
the last red statein the country that doesn't have
some kind of a voucher program.
And Chris, that's Hats off toyour the hard work that you've
been doing over the past fewyears, as well as the influence
(05:21):
of the IEA, so. So hats off toyou guys and for this work. But
we do want to kill this bill,and I'm just going to put put
out there right now. And forthose who are interested in
reading more, we will have theycan go to Idaho, ea.org,
backslash news, and read moreabout this legislation, but, but
I wanted to put the governor'semail address in here, and also
(05:42):
his phone number and encouragepeople to call right away and
tell the governor to beat thoselegislation. His email address
is governor@gov.idaho.gov alittle bit redundant, but that's
where it is.And then the phonenumber is 208334210, 3342100,
(06:03):
call, email, let them know thatit's time to veto this
legislation.
Chris Parri (06:08):
And you mentioned the vote counts on these things,
I want to point out exactly howclose is. So you know, in the in
the house, it was, I think, 28to 42 I believe, and and then in
the Senate, it was 20 to 15.
Those numbers can be a littlebit seething, because it's only
half of the difference that youneed to make up to kill one of
these bills. So on the Senate,if you look at that, you need we
(06:31):
lost in the Senate by threevotes, essentially three, which
is certainly in the margin oferror, almost in, like a primary
election, right? Like, ifthere's any sign that those,
those primary elections have amassive impact on education
policy, this is the one youshould take. Because if had we
won three of the primary seatsthat that we wanted to last,
(06:55):
May, wewould have beatenvouchers yet again, right?
There's a reason that the thepro voucher group spent $2
million trying to get a couplewins here. And to be honest,
their record is not that greaton winning. They spent $2
million and, you know, and gotbarely enough seats to get
vouchers done, right? This isnot like a overwhelming victory
(07:18):
for them
Mike Journee (07:20):
and and I think we can see that sentiment too, just
in the reaction that we've hadto our social media posts on Ida
social media channels regardingthis, people are sharing, people
are liking, people arecommenting. People are are it's
it's something that we also knowthat that especially on the
House Committee, the emails thatthe that the committees received
(07:41):
and that lawmakers received werenine to one saying, don't pass
this bill.
Chris Parri (07:46):
It's worse than nine to one. It was like 93% or
something. We're against it.
It's just absolutely ridiculous.
Like, you know, I hope peopledon't get cynical, like, we
should keep reaching out topeople. And, yeah, it is pretty
crazy when you get 93% of folksto say, don't do this, and then
they just do it. So no worriesthere. If people are feeling a
little bit grumpy, me too,
Mike Journee (08:05):
and that's, and that's, you know, I think that
that's testament to the to theout of state influence here and
what's going on, and the factthat this is not done the Idaho
way, as the governor called forin his State of the State dress
well, we got some otherterritory we want to cover, so I
want to move on, but I do wantto encourage people to go ahead
and make those calls and emailsto the governor to encourage
them to do the right thing withthis legislation. Another bill
(08:28):
that's been that we've beenfollowing Chris that directly
impacts the IEA, is a unionbusting bill that's been brought
forward. It was passed by theHouse last week, and in awaits a
hearing in the Senate side. Thisis a union bus to go through and
through it would really impactthe way IEA members are able to
collaborate with their withtheir school districts. It
(08:49):
really hampers their ability todo the work of the Union. And in
fact, one provision of it wouldtake away union members ability
to pay their dues via payrolldeduction, and so, of course,
that's something that the IEAhas been working on diligently
over the past year and a half.
Everyone who is listening whohas not converted to IEA auto
pay to pay their union dues.
(09:13):
They need to do so right away,please, so that the impact of
this bill will be as minimal aspossible on their union, you can
go to idahoea.org and and underthe member section, you can go
down to Idaho IEA auto pay andfind all the information you
need about convertingthat billis waiting a hearing Chris on
(09:35):
the Senate side. We're not surewhen that will happen, but we'll
be keeping an eye on that.
Chris Parri (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, if and when that bill moves forward, we
will let members know, andthere'll be actions we can take.
But like you said, it's just abad bill. Get your apparel
deduction for no real reasonother than it, the people that
sponsored it and the groupspushing it hit unions, every
union the state is lined up inopposition against it, along
with the school administratorswho view this as like it. It's a
(10:00):
huge red flag, I think, forpeople, if the administrators
are against it, they're on oneside of the bargaining table.
We're on the other side. So if,if it's a union busting bill
that the administrators areagainst, then it actually has
pretty broad impacts on schooldistricts that even the
administrators don't want tosee. So this bill, there's no
way around it. It hurts kids andit hurts teachers and it hurts
administrators. This is just abad bill pushed by an out of
(10:23):
state group funded bybillionaires. So, yeah, awful.
Mike Journee (10:28):
That's right, we'll be keeping an eye on all
that members know. One otherthing that I want to touch on
before we wrap up is the factthat the I the legislature's
budget committee, Jay Thacker,the Joint Finance and
appropriations committee, hasbeen talking about pay raises
for state employees, which wouldinclude educators this year, a
5% pay raise is what's beendiscussed. Typically, these
(10:52):
budget bills come come forwardat the end of the session, after
all, the policy has been draftedby the various committees, and
then the Budget Committee willcome through and fund the things
that what the committee wants tofund, and at the levels that
they want to fund, but theconversations right now are
around a 5% pay increase andeducators will be included.
That's great news for ourmembers, but even better news
(11:12):
Chris is the fact that SenatorJim Woodward, out of North
Idaho, is bringing a bill thatcould in better, that could
improve that pay raise, the payraise that educators received a
few legislative sessions ago,the $6,359 average that was part
of it was never put into theIdaho career ladder, the
(11:36):
framework for funding educatorpay in The state. And his bill
would do that. And so that raisewould then compound the 5% that
that would they would raise ifthe bill for state pay rate,
state pay raises goes throughjfac, this is good news for
educators. It's going to be moremoney in educators pockets all
the way across the board, butwe're really paying close
(11:58):
attention to that.
Chris Parri (12:00):
Yeah. Huge shout out to Senator Woodward up in
north Idaho. He's been probablyone of the staunchest supporters
of public education in this, inthe entire legislature. And
yeah, his bill is great. It getsit kind of the raises that that
the legislature have. They'vebeen funding the raises. But I
think at the bargaining table,maybe some of our educators have
(12:21):
experienced this. The schoolboards are a little bit hesitant
to always, kind of grant anongoing raise, if the decision
is always up to the jfaccommittee to provide that money.
So sometimes the school boardswill agree to, like a, you know,
a bonus. We'll see what thelegislature does next year. This
bill helps kind of somecertainty that this money will
(12:43):
be there, will be there forEducator pay, and then, like you
said, we add 5% rate raise ontop of that, and it goes to both
educators and administrators,which I think is important. I
think a lot of folks, I thinkare now more than ever, seeing
the issues that we have withrecruiting and retaining amazing
administrators, and howimportant that is for a
(13:05):
workplace as well. So yeah, Ithink this is, this is good. The
Good News of the session is thatit looks like educators and
administrators will be able toto get some some extra money in
their pockets. So
Mike Journee (13:22):
Well, Chris, that's all the topics we had to
discuss this this week. I wantto thank you again for joining
us, and again, thank you for allthe work that you're doing down
at the State House on behalf ofIda members. It's been a it's
been a monumental session sofar, and a lot of ways
groundbreaking, not necessarilyin good ways, but but it is also
something that that we'realways, we're always on top of,
(13:44):
and you've been doing just fine,fine work down there. So thank
you for that.
Chris Parri (13:47):
Thanks, Mike. One last thing too, like, I want
people to know, like, vouchersmight go through. You know,
there's attacks on unions, allof this stuff. Your union, the
IEA, is not going anywhere. Wedon't exist because the
government says we're we can weexist in spite often of the
government. We exist becauseteachers want us to exist and
(14:10):
that it's good for kids. It'sgood for school districts to
have us there in collaboratingwith districts for the benefit
of our communities and ourstudents. I know it can feel
hopeless sometimes, but we'renot going anywhere. You guys
aren't going anywhere. Yourstudents aren't going anywhere.
Keep your heads up. They wantyou to be discouraged, but it's
up to us to not not bediscouraged, to remain resilient
(14:31):
and hopeful for the folks thatneed us. So keep that in mind.
Keep fighting for you.
Mike Journee (14:39):
Well said, Chris, thank you, my friend. Talk to
you soon.
Next up on the IAEA reporterpodcast, a discussion about
2020, four's House Bill 710better known as the library Bill
and I A's new library committee.
Joining me is IEA member. AndRigby high school librarian.
(15:00):
Heidi Robbins,well. Heidi Robbins, thank you
for joining the IAEA reporterpodcast and talking with us
today about libraries and allthe wonderful things that you
guys are doing with IE librarycommittee,
Heidi Robbins (15:22):
yeah, thank you for having me
Mike Journee (15:26):
so you're a school librarian in Rigby. Can you tell
us a little bit about yourlibrary and how large it is, how
many students you serve, thatkind of thing?
Heidi Robbins (15:34):
Sure. Yeah. I am the librarian at Rigby High
School. We are the only highschool in our school district.
We have 2100 students just overI'm the only one in the library,
and I actually teach classestoo. So it's it's a lot, it's a
lot different than maybe some ofthe bigger schools in the Boise
year Meridian area, which I loveit, though it's great. Teaching
(15:57):
classes keeps me grounded withkids sometimes, and we have a
kind of a small collection. Wehave just over 6000 books, which
isn't a lot for the size ofschool we have, but I've been
the librarian. This is my thirdyear here, and we have been
working to update our collectionwith a lot of grants. We've been
really lucky to get some grants,and it's great. We check out.
(16:19):
Last year, we checked out justover 10,000 books, which is
phenomenal for our little ourlittle community. And, yeah,
Mike Journee (16:29):
well, that's fantastic. So tell me, I've
always the idea of beinglibrarian has always been so
appealing to me. How did you getdrawn to this profession? Why
did you choose to do it?
Heidi Robbins (16:39):
So I lived in Washington state for a while,
and in Washington State, youhave to have done student
teaching and get a certificationto be a sub. So I was a
certified teacher. So I got mysub certification, and I started
working in my children'selementary school as a sub. And
I subbed in the library a lot,and I met this amazing
(17:00):
librarian, and she just, I'veloved reading. I have I'm an
English teacher, you know, andshe just instilled this like
excitement around librarianship,and she told me about the
program that she went through atCentral Washington University to
get her certification. And Ithought, why not? And so I did
(17:20):
it. I got my master's degreethrough them. I never
anticipated moving back toIdaho, where I grew up, but we
ended up moving back, and Ihappened to move into a
community that needed acertified librarian, which I
wasn't expecting. And so I kindof just fell into it. I feel
like it just, you know, Fate,Fate brought me here.
Mike Journee (17:41):
So, you know, I know just generally for
educators, the past few yearshave been really, really
difficult, you know, with thepandemic and coming out of the
pandemic and how educators havehave really kind of been
centered on in these culturalwars that we're talking about in
education policies these days.
But one of the more surprisingthings for me has been how
(18:03):
libraries and librarians havereally been in the crosshairs of
that more than any single groupof educators. Probably, can you
tell us a little bit about whatthe past few years have been
like for you, having chosen aprofession that you love and
that find great value, and howhas these past few years felt to
you?
Heidi Robbins (18:24):
Yeah, I have my ups and downs. I love my job. I
have the best job in the world.
So many people say My dream jobis to be a librarian. It's so
great, but I really got intolibrarianship as all of this
culture war type feeling isexploding, and so I really don't
know a lot different. This haskind of been my whole librarian
(18:46):
experience. There's a lot offear. I talk to a lot of
librarians. I try tocollaborate. I really like to
reach out and get to know otherlibrarians, because it makes me
feel less alone, because itisn't kind of a lonely job. And
I would say that we're all kindof scared. I feel like I'm on
the chopping block literallyevery year. I don't know if my
(19:06):
job's gonna get cut. I know myadmin values me. I know that my
co workers value me. I know thatmy students value me. But that
doesn't mean I don't feel afraidthat my job is gonna get cut or
that my funding is, you know,always going to be there. It's,
it's really scary. And I thinkall librarians kind of feel that
right now, not just in ourstate, but across the country.
(19:27):
It's a, it's a scary place to bein. People feel very deeply
their values, and when they feellike you're in the way of their
values, it, it can be a scaryplace to be. Yeah, yeah,
Mike Journee (19:43):
that was really well said in the way of people's
values, and that's kind of wherethings are. I think a lot of the
angst that you're talking aboutreally came about, really kind
of crystallized, I think perhapslast legislative session with
House Bill 70.
Heidi Robbins (20:00):
Me, and which has become known ubiquitously as the
library bill. Unfortunately,Governor little signed into law.
Would you talk a little bitabout this law, what it does and
and, well, then we'll talk aboutthe impacts that it's having on
you, on on you and your yourfellow librarians, but talk a
little bit about this law, what?
Yeah, so this law makes it soanybody within a library
(20:23):
community can request that abook be reconsidered for a
collection and that the accessfor this book to minors be taken
away. It does need to go throughthe library's reconsideration
policy. Which every libraryshould have a reconsideration
policy. If they don't, theyprobably don't have a certified
librarian. They probably don'thave somebody educated in
(20:45):
library, if they don't have it.
So they should go through thisreconsideration policy. If in
the reconsideration guidelines,they decide that they don't want
to move this to an adults onlysection, then the person who
complained about it her or whosubmitted the reconsideration
request, they are allowed to suethe library for up to $250 is
(21:06):
what it says. But what peopledon't realize is they can also
get damages on top of that. Soif they say, this ruined my
child's psyche, this caused mychild to have to go to
counseling, like all thosethings, those costs, can also
come on top of of that, thatlawsuit. So the library does
have the option to move thosebooks to an adults only section
(21:30):
that cannot be accessed byminors.
Mike Journee (21:37):
And I guess one question that I have is, how
many, how many school librarieshave an adults only section?
Heidi Robbins (21:44):
None that I know of. I currently have a place
that I would set it up if Ineeded to, but it would have to
stay behind my circulation desk,and part of it would have to be
none of my library. So Imentioned before that I'm the
only person that runs mylibrary. I don't have any aids,
but I also teach two two hoursof the day. I teach classes two
out of the six hours. So I relyon library aids. Juniors and
(22:08):
Seniors can sign up to aid inthe library, and I train them,
and they run the library for mewhile I'm teaching class. If a
book was reconsidered and had tobe put in an adult Swami section
behind the circulation desk,they are not even allowed to
touch it if they're not 18. Sothat would really put a damper
on me being able to keep mylibrary open.
Mike Journee (22:29):
So what was your initial reaction when you first
heard about this bill? It seemsit would seem to really chill
Freedom ofInformation, freedomof speech, in a way that some of
the bills authors might not haveattended, or maybe they did, I
don't know, but, but what wasyour reaction when you, when
(22:50):
you, when you heard about thisbill?
Heidi Robbins (22:53):
I think my first, my first reaction was,sadly, not
surprised, because they triedother bills before that, right,
that fortunately hadn't passed.
So I was slightly hopeful, butalso I was really scared. It's
something that students wouldcome and ask me about, and I
tried to stay neutral as ateacher, as an educator, that's
my job. But I would tell themwhat it meant, and I would have
(23:16):
kids who would come to me andcheck daily as it was going
through Congress, and they werelike, has it passed? What's
going on? Who do I need to call?
I literally had students whowere like, what do we need to
do? And I would say, contactyour legislator and let them
know how you feel about it, likeyou get to decide. And the
(23:36):
hardest, the hardest group ofkids I have, I have some LGBTQ
kids who would come to me dailybecause they are targeted in
this bill, it does say that anyLGBTQ content is considered
explicit, and these kids feltattacks, and so they would come
to me and they would ask me howit was going, and they were
(23:56):
really scared. And I think forme, like it's hard, because I
want to stand up for my kids.
I'm in this job for those kids,and there's books I give to kids
that they need, that I maybeeven want to give them to my own
children at home, because theydon't need them. And so like,
it's my job as a parent todecide what my own children
read. It's my job as a librarianto have access to whatever
(24:19):
information kids need. Those aretwo different roles, and I felt
like those roles were gettingcrossed. I don't get to decide
what is right or wrong forsomebody else, and I don't want
to have to decide that that istoo much for me. And that feels
like that's what this bill istrying to do, decide what's
right and wrong for every child.
Mike Journee (24:42):
Heidi, what was the reaction to that
legislation? Like in your schooldistrict, you mentioned you got
really good support from youradministration. Can you talk a
little bit about what there didyou see, anything from higher
up, beyond your management ofthe library itself, about this
legislation and any directionthat you got? Yeah.
Heidi Robbins (24:59):
Yeah, so my district actually changed pretty
drastically when I was firsthired. We didn't have a very
solid reconsideration policy forlibraries. Specifically. We had
a blanket one for curriculum,and libraries just kind of fell
under that. And I talked to somehigher ups at the district, and
I said, we need to really changethis. And they were a little
reticent to do it. Instead, theyinstituted a library committee
(25:24):
that had to approve every bookfor every school, and then it
had to get approved by theschool board. Now this is
obviously a very tediousprocess. Each school had their
own Committee. It it. I had$20,000 in grants the year we
did it, and we were meeting allthe time. My committee was so
busy, and they were allvolunteers, parents and
(25:45):
teachers, and it took so muchtime. Well, when this bill
passed, our district realizedthey actually did need a more
solid reconsideration policy, sothey put one in place, and we
got rid of our librarycommittee. I think that's
actually a much better solution.
It's, it's what every libraryshould have. So that was
actually a really positive thingfor us, that we have that
reconsideration policy, and Iwas able to talk through with
(26:06):
some of my leadership beforethey made that policy. Our
director of secondary education,she had talked to me in depth
about what should be in apolicy, and I felt very seen
when it was written. So I doappreciate that. We also have,
like I said, I have a spaceprepared for if and when we get
a challenge. I have forms in mylibrary. I have an enclosed
(26:28):
bookshelf behind my circulationdesk, so I'm ready when that
challenge probably inevitablycomes, unfortunately, but
Mike Journee (26:39):
it hasn't happened yet?
Heidi Robbins (26:41):
No, we haven't had, we haven't had any
challenges escalated yet. As alibrarian, I think every
librarian, excuse me, I thinkevery librarian will say they
have had a parent upset about abook their kid read. And I will
say I have it almost every year,and usually I'm able to talk to
the parent and say, You knowwhat upset you about this book?
Okay? I completely, you know, Ican empathize. I can understand,
(27:04):
as a parent, there's certainthings I don't want my child
reading. I will try to keep aneye on that. For your kid, we do
self checkout, so your kid iskind of in charge of their own
checkout. But when they come in,if they say, you know, I really
don't want a book that has a lotof language in it. I really
don't want a book that has x, y,z in it, whatever it is, then
I'm happy to point them to booksthat fit their needs, because
(27:27):
that's my job. That's what I'mhere for. And usually parents
are actually really willing totalk. I haven't had any that
have been too riled. I've had tomeet with a principal in the
room only one time, and luckily,he was level headed and helped
me out, and we were able to cometo terms. And I've never had to
escalate beyond that, but Idon't think that will be the
(27:49):
case my whole career, not withthe political climate we're in.
Mike Journee (27:55):
Yeah, that's a really that's a really great
point. I mean, my next questionwas going to be, what are you
hearing from parents about thechanges? I mean, they have, I'm
not sure if it's visible to themor not. Your students might need
who have been paying attentionto the bill might know. But are
you hearing anything else fromparents about this legislation?
Heidi Robbins (28:16):
I would say in my area, the people that know about
it are the people who didn'twant it. I feel like sometimes
maybe we stay in our lane to ourdetriment. Sometimes people
don't know what affects themuntil it actually affects them.
And I think that's kind of thecase with this bill. I think
until they realize that if ourschool gets sued and we lose
(28:39):
funding for certain things,they're not going to realize
that it affects them. I have hadconversations with lots of
parents with all the otherlibrarians in my district, so
I'm the only certified librarianin my district. The rest are
paras, and so as such, I try tosupport them as much as
possible, and this has been ahuge area where they've needed
support, because there have beensome schools where there have
(29:01):
been parents a little bit moreangry than what I've had to deal
with, and I've been able to talkthem through it, with how they
deal with it, but also teachingthem about what the bill
actually means. We've had toteach admin, you know, like we
don't actually pull books untilthere's an official challenge.
We don't have to move them untilthere's an official challenge.
So understanding what the lawactually says is a little bit
(29:23):
different than realizing thatthere is a lot in place.
Mike Journee (29:27):
It's really interesting because it sounds
like your, your your schooldistrict was, was really
thoughtful about their approachto this, how they how they
developed the policies andeverything, you know we had
there. There are districts inIdaho that began pulling books
right away. One here in theTreasure Valley is a big one
that started doing that kind ofthing. So that's really
heartening to hear that they hada very thoughtful reaction to to
(29:51):
the legislation and and, and Ilove hearing you say you're
prepared. You got the forms, yougot things there, you've got a
section already ready to go, I'msure. That that any of the other
librarians and around the statewho are listening this year are
probably taking notes about thatso so well done.
Unknown (30:07):
Thank you. Yeah, we were really lucky. I honestly
wasn't sure which way mydistrict would go, because I was
so new, but I think we reallylucked out, and I feel like I
really do have a supportivecommunity with the parents that
I have talked to. But again, youdon't, I don't know everyone.
2100 students is a lot, so we'llsee what happens. Well, last
(30:29):
year, you were a delegate to IEAdelegate assembly, and you
brought forward a new businessitem to form an IEA library
committee. What was behind thatwas, was, was this part of the
your kind of reaction to thelegislation? And what else is
(30:49):
behind that?
Heidi Robbins (30:51):
Yeah, it was definitely a reaction to this
legislation. I It's kind of afunny little story. I am kind of
new to the Union. This is mythird year in it, the first year
I was a librarian, I was like, Ihave to join. The year before,
when I was a teacher, I washired last minute, and it didn't
even cross my mind, because Iwas trying to survive. But my
(31:11):
first year as a librarian, Ithought, there are these bills
that are trying to come. I needto join. I need to have a group
of people that I know have myback. So I joined, but I didn't
really get involved. And thenover the summer, I got involved,
and I just loved it, and I metso many people, and I met Lane
mcinelli, and he took me, like,to this leadership conference in
Chicago, which is amazing. Andthen I decided to do delegate
(31:34):
assembly. And at mini da, he andI were talking, and he was like,
Are you going to do a newbusiness item about libraries?
And I said, Well, I kind of havethis idea, but it's my first
time. I don't even know howdelegate assembly goes. I'm not
sure if I should do it or not.
And he was like, why not justtry it? And I said, Okay, I'll
jump in. So I decided to justmake this committee. My reason
behind making the committee wasto give librarians within the
(31:59):
IEA, a support system. I havementioned that I'm the only
certified librarian in my schooldistrict. I did get one of my
para librarians did join the IEAthis year, which makes me really
excited, but a lot of parentsdon't want to because they don't
make enough money, and so Iwanted, I wanted them to feel
like, okay, there is a reasonfor me to join. There's a reason
(32:20):
for me to be there. But thenalso I wanted those who are
already members to feel like I'mseen within the union. A lot of
the things that we hear aboutwithin the IEA have to do with
classroom teachers, which isamazing. We have so many
classroom teachers, and we needto support them, but we as
librarians, are islands. We'reislands in our schools,
sometimes islands in ourdistrict, and we need a support
(32:41):
system that that we can go towhen we have questions, when we
don't know how to deal with thisbill, when we don't know a book
to recommend a student, evensomething that's simple, this
committee is what that's for. Wedo book talks. We are going to
do a talk about grants. We'regoing to do talks about all
these different things andanything that's an important to
(33:01):
a topic to librarians. We wantto talk about it, and we want to
bring librarians together.
Mike Journee (33:08):
How's it going so far? What, what is our what has
been the reaction so far? Areyou getting people who are
interested and andparticipating?
Heidi Robbins (33:17):
Yeah, we are.
It's a slow burn. I feel like,at first, you know, people are
really excited, and then theyrealize how busy they are. But
we have solid members of thecommittee. We have people
literally on every area of thestate who are part of this
committee, and I'm hearing thatthey want to keep it going. So
that's my plan for delegateAssembly this year, is to do
another new business item tokeep this library committee
(33:40):
going, because last year's itmade it last for a year. So we
want to, we want to keep itgoing, and we just want to grow
it. We I want people from everyregion represented on our
committee, so anybody listening,if they're interested. I, I
would love to have moreinvolvement. But we also do our
monthly book chats that anylibrarian can jump on at any
(34:00):
time for 10 minutes, if theywant to and talk about books, or
if they have something else theyreally need to talk about. We're
here for it. We're open to it.
And then we're going to havequarterly chats about different
topics. I mentioned grants. Wehave some other topics that we
would like to talk about, andanything that librarians need
(34:21):
support with. That's, that'swhat we want to do, and we just
want to keep it going.
Mike Journee (34:25):
Yeah, I was going to mention I heard that you guys
had a session coming up aboutgrant writing and getting, and
grants are an important part ofwhat you do. You've written them
several times just so far, andso it's, I would imagine that's
going to be a topic that peoplewould be really interested in.
Heidi Robbins (34:41):
Yeah, I have a unique situation. I have great
admins, but I have zero funding,so my budget is literally no
money unless I can raise itmyself. So to me, that's a
challenge, and I write grantsconstantly, so it's a topic that
I so very deeply, and I know alot of librarians, even if they
have a budget, maybe. Be it's acouple $100 that they can buy 10
(35:02):
books, if they're lucky. So Iknow that's not enough, so it's
a really important topic.
Mike Journee (35:09):
Great. Have you or your colleagues discussed ways
to push back and advocate forstudents access to books? I
mean, either part of thiscommittee or in other ways, is
that something that's an ongoingconversation with you guys?
Heidi Robbins (35:21):
Yeah, within the committee, we've had
conversations about what everyschool is doing. How are how are
you handling things? How are youtalking to administrators? I
think a lot of a lot of mycolleagues across the state,
maybe have administrators whodon't understand libraries or
the need for libraries. Maybethey don't understand the need
for students to be able to readwhatever they want, things like
(35:43):
that. So we have been able tohelp share what we're doing,
which I think is a really greatresource. What's working and
what isn't working. In otherdistricts, you can't always fix
the problem for them, but maybeyou can even just offering
support, saying, Hey, we're hereif you need to talk it through.
I know that there, you know,there is a lawsuit right now
(36:03):
going on, and I have talked topeople as that was going around
since I don't have anychallenges in my district. I
wasn't super helpful, but I wasable to talk through things with
them. And I know, you know, aslibrarians, we're all trying to
do what we can to get kidsaccess to the books they need.
And I think just hearing thatother people are not pulling
books if we don't have to, andother people are displaying
(36:27):
books that maybe are a littlebit more controversial and that
it's going okay, gives othersthe courage to keep pushing
through. I
Mike Journee (36:38):
was going to ask you how you mentioned in your
your district, so far, your inyour library, so far, there
hasn't really been anychallenges. What are you hearing
a lot of challenges from, fromacross the state. Is, uh, from
your colleagues. It
Heidi Robbins (36:53):
really depends on the region they're from. I think
a lot of people know the regionsthat are having the most
challenges, or the districtsthat are having the most
challenges. I think it's veryconcentrated right now. Do I
think there's a possibility ofit spreading? Of course, I do,
but I do for the most part, itseems like it is concentrated in
certain areas. And I don't thinkit's hard for anybody to do a
(37:14):
little search and find out booksthat are being banned in Idaho
and where they're being banned.
The interesting thing is that itsometimes brings conversations
with students. They'll pick up abook, and I'll be like, oh my
goodness, did you know this wasjust banned in Idaho, in another
area, and they'll be like, why?
And I'll say, I have no idea.
Why don't you read it and tellme what you think. And then they
love it, like, there's there'sbooks that I love, that I'm
floored are being banned incertain areas, and it makes kids
(37:37):
excited to read them. I mean,obviously I know which kids are
going to be okay with them andwhich aren't, but that's my job,
and it's kind of made some greatconversation starters.
Mike Journee (37:50):
Yeah, that's fantastic. You just made my
thing.So tell us a little bitabout how anybody who's
interested in getting involvedwith the library committee. Tell
us a little bit about how theycan do that.
Heidi Robbins (38:01):
Yeah, if anybody's interested in being on
the library committee or evenjust joining our chats, if you
want to shoot me an email, I amhappy to share my email address.
It's kind of long. It's my fullname, Heidi Maxine
robbins@yahoo.com, H, E, I D, Im, a, x, I N, E, R, O, B, B, I
N, s@yahoo.com, if you shoot mean email, I am happy to invite
you to our next committeemeeting. If you just want to
(38:24):
join our chats, we are trying tosend those out. We send out QR
codes. We try to share it onsocial media. We're going to try
to create a Facebook page justfor librarians within the IEA,
and we will share that. It'sgoing to be a private group.
That way you have the ability toask questions and have a safe
space so not just anybody cansee what we're talking about,
(38:45):
because sometimes there'ssensitive topics that you fear
for your job or your fear foryour view from the community,
those are some things we'regoing to do. So please be
watching for that. And if you'reat delegate assembly, please
find me. I will be presenting anew business item in for this
committee, and I would be sohappy to talk libraries with
you, or just hear from somebodythat's like, thank you. I'm in
(39:08):
this fight too. Like, I justwant to, I want to connect with
you if you're a librarian or ifyou are a teacher that just
loves your librarian. I want tohear from you
Mike Journee (39:20):
that's fantastic.
And feeling you'll probably havea few folks take you up on that.
So that's that's wonderful.
Heidi, thank you so much for theconversation. Thank you so much
for what you do on a day to daybasis. Thank you for your
involvement with the IAEA andyour union. You're doing
fantastic work and and itcouldn't be any more important
(39:40):
than it is right now to do whatyou do. And so thank you for
standing up for students. Thankyou for standing up for for
freedom of ideas and freedom ofexpression and for for
everything you do every day.
Heidi Robbins (39:53):
Well, thank you for having me. I really
appreciate it. You.
Mike Journee (40:01):
thank you for listening to this episode of The
IEA reporter podcast, and thanksto IEA member Heidi Robbins and
IEA political director ChrisPerry for joining us. Please
watch for updates about newpodcast episodes on IAEA social
media channels or sign up toreceive IAEA reporter emailed
updates on ourwebsite@idahoea.org I'm Mike
Journee, and as always, I hopeyou join me in thanking Idaho's
(40:25):
public school educators foreverything they do for our State
students, families and publicschools. You
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