April 30, 2025 • 31 mins
A conversation with Stella Birdie feels like stumbling upon a secret diary—intimate, raw, and unexpectedly illuminating. Speaking from her candlelit porch in Australia as dawn breaks, Stella reveals how songwriting became her way to process emotions too complex for everyday conversation.
"I want to ruminate on things much longer than most people want to," she confesses, perfectly capturing why her music resonates so deeply. From childhood notebooks filled with song-like poems to her recent EP "Speaking Terms," Stella's creative journey follows a consistent thread: seeking intimate expression for experiences that defy easy articulation.
Her songwriting process begins with lyrics, usually captured in her phone's Notes app while walking home, processing the day. Unlike many artists who begin with melody or chords, Stella prioritizes the words and the emotional truth they carry. This lyrics-first approach explains the rare authenticity that permeates tracks like "Organ Donor" and "He Didn't Mean It"—songs that begin as personal catharsis before becoming universal connection points.
What's particularly fascinating is Stella's revelation about the therapeutic nature of her craft. "Closure is not real," she says with hard-earned wisdom, "and writing is a really good band-aid for coping with that fact." This perspective offers listeners a new way to understand why we're drawn to emotionally complex music—it gives voice to feelings we struggle to resolve in our own lives.
As sunlight gradually illuminates our conversation, Stella reflects on the beautiful paradox of performing painful songs with joy, watching audience members connect with her most vulnerable moments. There's something magical in this transformation—from darkness into light, from private pain into shared experience. For anyone who's ever found solace in a song that seemed written just for them, Stella Birdie's music provides both mirror and window into our shared emotional landscape.
Discover Stella's music across all platforms and catch her upcoming shows across Europe and the UK this May. Your new favorite lyricist is just getting started.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stella Birdie (00:00):
But by the time I'm 29, my body will turn back
to mine.
What damage can it do till then, if I see you in?
everything.
If you're so scared to be alone, then just become an organ
(00:25):
donor.
You're so scared to be alone,why won't you be my organ donor?
Chris (00:48):
Very nice.
Here we are, it's so cool.
This is the first time thatI've ever done an interview with
my guest in Candlelight, so yay.
Stella Birdie (01:01):
First time for everything you know, check off
every box.
Chris (01:05):
That's right.
That's right, um.
So welcome everyone to anotherepisode of beautiful podcast
season five.
Um, we are traveling really fararound the world here today, um
, and I'm I I didn't realizethis, but we are.
We have a stella birdie comingin from Australia sitting on her
(01:26):
porch with candles because herroommates are still sleeping.
So we'll talk pretty quietlybecause we don't want to wake
her roommates up and the wholeflat is against her all day
saying I'm grumpy because of you.
We don't want that we're notgoing to do that, stella, thank
you.
Thank you for accepting thisinvite and also kudos to you for
(01:46):
getting up so darn early and,um, you know, these time changes
.
Stella Birdie (01:51):
They're dramatic, thank you thank you for having
me.
And also I mean honestly I gotback from the us like a week and
a half ago, so I probablyneeded a reason to wake up early
and actually get myself back ontrack.
I've been sleeping in quitelate, so this is good
Accountability.
Chris (02:12):
All things work out in the end, we'll say so.
Stella, tell me a little bitabout where things began for you
.
Do you have some like memoriesof your you know, as you were
growing up, of where musicreally started to, to show
itself to you and reveal it thatthat this was something that
(02:33):
was going to be a part of yourlife?
Stella Birdie (02:36):
absolutely, yeah, I think, um, my uh sister would
like play me a lot of stuff.
I remember really key points ofum, like I don't know,
downloading her downloading abunch of music for me and um, uh
, like getting really into itthat way, and then also just
(02:56):
writing a lot like I think thatI was writing songs before I
knew what, like what, I wasdoing, that that was what I was
doing.
Um, and like, there are littlelike scrapbook notebooks of me
from like a very young age andsome of them are like clearly a
copy paste of you know whateversong I was getting access to via
the radio, but they were.
(03:17):
You can see, like, um, it'slike you know cave drawings.
You're like, oh, I can see whatyou're trying to do, you'll get
to something at some point.
Um, but yeah, so I think therewas like just a very natural
instinct towards that um, veryearly on, again, before I
realized what I was doing.
And then later on, um, you knowlike kind of I started to like
structure it and go like, oh,how do I do like more of this?
(03:39):
How do I make this my life?
right and now that's.
You know what I'm trying to doamazing.
Well, I think you're doing it.
We'll say you're doing itbecause yeah, I mean from what I
can see um, yeah, I mean it'sdefinitely happening which is
exciting um you said that youwould always have these, like
you know, old vestiges from thepast, that that kind of were,
(04:01):
maybe songy, poetry.
Chris (04:04):
Um, when did you actually start penning songs that that
you thought would have a life tothem and that you would want to
share those with you know,friends, family oh, I think I
was probably like I was 12 whenI got two of my friends to sing
something with me that I hadwritten, but we were like
(04:27):
calling it kind of a band andgot like did it for like a full
school performance, and Iremember that it was a very like
angsty, you know, song aboutlike friendships and
miscommunications, and soclearly some things haven't
changed.
Stella Birdie (04:44):
But but yeah, I remember that and I also I
remember that thing of you knowthat I think everyone
experiences when they're a kid,hopefully, of like you just
never think like, oh, what ifsomeone doesn't like this?
Or what if someone thinksyou're like I want to do this, I
want to share this like, andyou know, I think the the work
of I don't know any artist is totry to get back to that feeling
(05:05):
of when you were a kid and youjust you shared things or did
things because you were like Ithink what I've made is really
cool and I really want to seewhat people think of it.
um, so, yeah, I feel like I wasat that point, you know, like
early, very, very early teens,and then the work is just to try
to get back to that point right, interesting, and did you find
(05:27):
too, like at a young age, thatyou had, you felt, you had that
creative muscle going, like youpracticed it and, and you know,
like pushed it further, furtherand further and further as you
grew up?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, um, I was doing a lotof different kinds of writing.
I wrote a lot of different likescripts and like plays and like
(05:50):
I don't know was one of thosekids who was always getting all
the other kids in theneighborhood to like make the
movie that I had in my head.
I was spending a lot of time oniMovie.
I do remember that, just aclassic vestige of the, you know
, the overthinking child.
Um, uh, yeah, so I think that Iwas just like making things in
(06:15):
a lot, of, a lot of differentways, like a lot of different
mediums, um, but always, always,writing a lot um, and always
writing in verse in a way thatwould become soul structure.
Chris (06:27):
Right.
And were your themes that youwere dabbling in at that younger
age like?
Were those surprising themes toyou?
Or was it kind of a therapy, ina way too, of like just getting
stuff out, putting it down onpaper so you wouldn't just be
tormenting you?
Stella Birdie (06:47):
totally, yeah, I think, um, like I was like in in
many ways like a prettymelancholy kid or a very like
thinking very heavily very earlyon, and so I like, when I look
back on like little scraps thatI still have of things that I
was writing, i'm'm like, ohshe's, she's going through it.
But then there were also thingslike I don't know I wrote like
(07:09):
when I was pretty little still Iwrote like a reinterpretation
of Cinderella, but that was likelike how a feminist slant and
you know Cinderella like doessome women's lib and you know
tries to have a career as well,which is like pretty funny,
funny move for like aseven-year-old to write.
So I think that that kind ofstuff was showing up there
(07:31):
pretty early as well.
Um, yeah, and when.
Chris (07:35):
When did you introduce yourself to guitar songwriter
lyrics like when was that first?
Was that still in your teens,where you started actually
playing a guitar?
Stella Birdie (07:48):
yeah, my um, uh, my mom got me like a second hand
, relatively like, you know, umkind of beaten up but really
nice, uh, acoustic.
And then my sister got me anelectric, which I still have
somewhere.
It's really nice.
It's like this 1970s Japanesemodel, like really tiny guitar
that I need to get fixed becauseit's like unplayable right now.
(08:11):
Um, but yeah, so those were mytwo, like I think it was like.
My mom got me an acoustic to belike, you know, like, learn it,
play like, write songs, blah,blah, blah.
And then my sister got me anelectric to be like and remember
like you can make rock music,like you don't have to make
because you know, obviouslythere's some really brilliant um
acoustic guitar music, um likeI love it, but sometimes you can
(08:34):
get a bit shoehorned um as likesing a songwriter one specific
sound, and I think my sister waslike just remember, you can do
like whatever you want, like youcan write, you know, indie rock
if you want to write indie rock.
And and here we are amazing, andso tell me a little bit about
your process.
How do you go about writingsongs?
(08:55):
How do they?
How do you get an idea and theneither say, yeah, idea, no good
, let's show that.
Maybe I'll pull it out in acouple of years to something
like where a song really startsto spark inside you Like, how do
you?
What's your process?
Like you come up with your,your, your chord progressions
first, and then a melody comesto you, or do you have because I
(09:18):
did read that you're a big fanof of iPhone recorder right For
tracking your, big fan of ofiphone recorder right for, yeah,
tracking your.
Chris (09:27):
can you tell us a little bit about how you go about um,
beginning these songs and thento get them, bring them further
along or scrap them, dependingabsolutely, yeah, I think so I
start with lyrics, always likeI've always been a lyrics first
um writer and a lot of the timesthat's like the notes app of my
phone.
Like I'm not like sometimes Ihandwrite, but a lot of the time
(09:49):
I'm normally coming back fromlike I don't know if I've been
out and I'm like I like to likedo a big walk home and that's
where I do.
A lot of writing is likethinking and processing then.
But you know, like the notesapp means that you can just
access like a little tinyinsulated corner of the world in
(10:10):
any environment you're in um,so I do that, and then normally
I'll have a vocal melody in myhead while I'm writing lyrics,
because it's giving structure tolike it's creating the rules
that I'm then going to likeapply to the song of literally
like rhythm, assonance, all ofthat kind of stuff, and within
the like boundaries of thatstructure, I can.
(10:33):
You know, like you kind of needsometimes to to create a rule so
that you can write, like if, ifyou didn't have any like
structure for what you weregoing to write against, um, it's
harder to write because, likeyou didn't have any like
structure for what you weregoing to write against.
Um, it's harder to writebecause, like you're, like I
could do anything and then thatkind of you know, so you write
nothing, um, uh.
(10:53):
So I'll have a vocal melody inmy head, usually while I'm
writing lyrics, and thennormally, once the song is
written, then I will startplaying it on an instrument like
.
I sometimes start slightlyearlier, but I normally try not
to, because I find that as soonas I start playing it and
singing at the same time, I lockin the lyrics and if I haven't,
like, thought enough about them, I might get really used to
(11:15):
singing a line that later I'mlike, but that doesn't work
there.
So it's like trying not to gettoo used to your own idea.
Stella Birdie (11:24):
Absolutely.
I love this quote that you saidand it made me think I want to
read it because it's so good.
There's so many conversationswe never get to have or times
when we can't make peopleunderstand us, but with
songwriting you can play thosenarratives out in your own terms
and then, hopefully, put themaway.
Can you reflect on that alittle bit?
(11:47):
I just find like I've nevertruly thought about it that way,
but totally like, yes, how didyou come to that about
songwriting, that it could bethis tool of healing?
You know, healing or or gettingout what I didn't.
I can't speak to the personwith.
(12:08):
You know, whoever I'm thinkingabout writing the song for.
Absolutely.
I think that, probably like anyperson doing a craft or in a
creative field, you're trying tobridge what you see as the gap
between how you need toexperience the world and what
the world is willing to let youdo.
(12:28):
You need to experience theworld and what the world is
willing to like let you do.
And I think that I, veryquickly in life, figured out
that, like I want to ruminate onthings much longer than you can
ruminate on things like I wantto like have a conversation over
and over again for a longertime than most people like want
to do that, and and also thingslike just like I don't know, um
like have like more mean and notmore meaning, but, um, I don't
(12:54):
know, I experience things likegood things very intensely and
bad things very intensely, andso when I was like okay, well, I
can't, I don't want to punishmyself for having that
sensitivity, but I also knowthat there are ways in which
it's not compatible with, like,some of the more practical
elements of life.
Um, if I want to ruminate onthis interaction with this
(13:15):
person, but I know that it'sactually not a good thing to
keep having that conversation,how can I still let myself
express that Like not muzzleyourself, um, and writing is
like the way to do that, becauseit's like it's almost like you
know, like talking to a kid andgoing like, okay, I can't
control, you know what's goingto happen for you out there, but
(13:37):
right here you can say whateveryou need to me, and like that's
what the writing process Ithink can be, if you're as long
as you're not judging yourself,um, yeah.
And so I think that just by likeby nature of the fact that I
would be thinking about thatanyway, it's like so you may as
well try to write something andthen get something out of it,
(14:00):
and then you know, like at acertain point, you actually do
get to put the thing downbecause you're like, oh, I've
made this, and so maybe the endgoal of that relationship wasn't
I'm gonna get closure.
The end goal of it was I'mgonna like have this experience,
write about it, feel reallyproud about the thing that I've
written and you know, I don'tknow, I think I've like writing
(14:23):
has actually helped me realizethat closure is like not real,
like um, and writing is a reallygood like band-aid for like
coping with the fact thatclosure is not real and I mean
these, I mean the lyrics thatyou write about and the themes
that you write about are noteasy themes to to put out there
in the world.
(14:43):
Um, and I do feel that it is youworking through things and and
having that conversation thatyou couldn't have, but you're
having it anyway through yourmusic and the melodies and the,
the, the words that you'reputting out there.
Are you?
Do you find that you need tolike, have kind of like these
(15:06):
difficult themes, like that theyinspire you more than you know,
a narrative of some kind whereit's not, maybe it's more
removed from you?
Like, does writing have to beintimate for you?
Like, do you have to writesongs that have have tugged at
your heartstrings or made yousuper, like you know, melancholy
(15:28):
, as you said?
intimate.
It's a great word for it,because it's like I think that
that's that's actually theexperience that I'm usually
pursuing, and sometimes thatmeans it's um, it's melancholy
or um, that it's got some angeror um, some resentment, or you
know bitterness, or you know anyhost of things.
(15:48):
Sometimes it means that it oryou know bitterness or you know
any host of things.
Sometimes it means that it'slike, you know, a really
delicate kind of like love ofany kind, or you know, like, so,
like I'm definitely I'mpursuing intimacy and I'm
pursuing something that, like, Ican't say any other way.
I think that's what I'm tryingto do when I'm writing.
(16:08):
I do notice that I'm not like Idon't say any other way.
I think that's what I'm tryingto do when I'm writing.
I do notice that I'm not like Idon't tend to write when I'm
feeling very content, like Idon't tend to analyze it very
much, which I think is just likea human thing.
So I just have less songs thatare written in those moments
where I'm like you know, likehaving you know they're like
when there are like parts of mylife that I'm feeling very
(16:30):
fulfilled about, I'm just likeless likely to like turn the
microscope on them.
But I am, I am my kind of.
One of my hopes, like longerterm, is that I'll get to a
point where I can write aboutthose things in a way that I
find interesting.
I just like, sometimes I try towrite, you know, I don't know,
like not happier songs strictly,but like songs about those more
(16:52):
like reflective, like lovingmoments, and then I just get
like bored with myself, probablybecause what I have to say I
say like I express thosefeelings pretty directly to
people quite easily.
So it's like, well, I'vealready said it, why do I need
to write?
Chris (17:07):
it.
That's cool, that's a great.
It's a great point, you know,like it's, I think too, like
you're able to put words tothings that are hard to put
words to, which is a greattalent.
Thinking about now you'respeaking terms EP that you put
out November 2024.
(17:27):
What was that process like foryou?
How did you, how did how didthat EP come together, um and
and to, to get to the pointwhere it was eventually released
?
Stella Birdie (17:39):
Yeah, so I hope you're getting these birds in
the background.
Chris (17:42):
It's slowly becoming lighter and lighter.
Stella Birdie (17:45):
It's great you can see more happening.
Uh, yeah, so I mean I actually.
So the first song for the epthat I wrote was he didn't mean
it like that was written theearliest, that was written, in
like mid 2021 and um, and Iwrote it and I was working on it
with one of the co-producersand then kind of sort of put it
(18:07):
down for a bit or had a reallyextended process of like we
would come back to it for a bitand be like, oh, this isn't
quite right or like we're tryingto get it to this point.
But you know, it was hard.
And I was also like, oh god, Ireally said all that, didn't I?
And now, if we put it out, I'llhave said all that forever,
like that's, that's out there,um.
(18:29):
And then I started working withgab gab strum, who ended up
producing like being the mainproducer for the full ep, and we
worked on all these other songstogether and then he didn't
mean it was the last song thatwe finished together.
So it's really like the top andtail of of that whole process,
um, and I think that while wewere making the other songs that
(18:50):
we were making, um, organ donorheadlights six foot drop
actually headlights was alsowith um, my friend and
co-producer, soren.
Um, while we were working onthose songs, it was like it was
like exposure therapy to, likeyou know, saying vulnerable
things, and so by the time wegot to he Didn't Mean it Again.
I was like, yes, like I have toput this out.
(19:11):
Yeah, so I think that, I don'tknow, it was just kind of a
natural extension of the waythat I've been writing for a
while, but just with people likeworking with new people who,
you know, just brought out newelements of the music and who
understood it in this differentway and, um, you know, brought,
(19:35):
brought their own perspective.
But also, I don't know, I thinkone of the really key things is
that, like I never had tojustify, you know, why that
lyric is like that or why thisstructure is like that.
He didn't mean it's quite likea long song.
We did like edit it or cut itdown like ever so slightly, but,
like you know, it's stillstructurally, like it takes
quite a while to get to thatfirst chorus, but there was like
(19:56):
no point at which anyone waslike, oh, maybe, like you know,
this isn't the first song to putout or this isn't a single blah
, blah, blah, like everyone wasjust like.
No, no, I get it.
Um, so I think that was areally key part of the creative
process was like you don't feelas vulnerable when you're not
made to like justify thesechoices that you made about.
(20:17):
You know heavy subject matter,or um, a song that's really
close to you absolutely.
Chris (20:21):
That's a good point.
And and was the productionsomething that you were involved
in from start to finish?
Um, I mean, as you mentioned,you had a producer and stuff,
but did you partake in, um thecrafting of, or were you just
focused on the songs and thedelivery and and letting others
(20:42):
kind of craft it?
Stella Birdie (20:45):
yeah, I mean.
So I was in the like room forlike any time the songs were
being worked on, basically, um,but probably like one or two
times that like some editing orparticularly like vocal, vocal
editing was happening, thatsomeone was just doing it, um,
but yeah, I mean, I think, likeI want to let a producer like
produce and, um, it's likesomething.
(21:07):
Production is something that Iwould love to like develop that
like skill and that muscle likein the next few years, um, but
that, like you know, I like havemore limited experience with,
basically like just for my own,like literal manual skills, um,
but then also, you know, likeanyone who is like work, like
(21:29):
you, you know how you want it tofeel and how you want it to
sound and where to direct it orwhere to be like.
Oh, I want that to happen there.
So usually the way that itworks is that I will have
finished a song pretty muchfully.
Um, you know, bring it, bring itto a producer, or bring a host
of songs to a producer actuallyand be like which of these calls
to you which do you want towork on?
Or bring a host of songs to aproducer actually and be like,
which of these calls to you,which do you want to work on?
(21:51):
And then we kind of like gofrom there.
Um, but yeah, I mean I'm.
I always want to be involved inthe production process because,
like you know, I want everyproduction choice to feel like
it has a narrative explanation,like we're not just putting in
like sounds for fun.
We wanted to feel like we'redoing everything is meant to be
(22:14):
there right, well, yeah, like inheadlights, that's such a like
song that's stacked with so manysounds that come in for two
bars and then never again in thesong and like anytime, we were
like introducing something.
We were really trying to likebuild a world, really, um, like
within that song.
So every single one of those is, like you know, a brick that
you want to be placing onpurpose interesting, yeah,
(22:38):
interesting, and now so I mean,this record's been out for a
handful of months.
Chris (22:43):
When you look back on it, what?
What were your greatestsurprises that you encountered
after the release?
Stella Birdie (22:52):
I think I mean like generally.
My surprise was just it hadbeen a while since I'd put
anything out and it was like theEP is quite, I would say,
different to like not radically,but quite different to things
that I've put out before.
So I think I was just like,really like I don't know.
I felt really grateful how manypeople were listening and like
(23:17):
different people were reachingout and like you know, just like
things like the radio play thatwe got was really cool and I
was not expecting um again,particularly for like some of
those like longer songs, um orlike with heavier content, I
think part of me was like I knowthat I want to put this out,
but also like there might be alimit to how accessible it is or
(23:38):
how viable it is for radiobecause of I don't know the
things that I'm saying, evenjust how much I'm swearing in
some of these songs.
Um, I didn't think about ituntil we were like at the end of
the ep and then I was like, wow, I, I did that a lot.
Um, I think your fuck placementsare like like so good I I enjoy
(23:59):
it.
Seeing starting he didn't meanit with.
I saw that motherfucker is themost fun thing live of all time
because if someone in the crowdhas been maybe like not fully
engaged, you see them like belike what.
They just lock in well, it'slike gut level.
Um, it's a gut level like uh,lyric, you know like, or, or
(24:21):
sentence like yeah surely likepulls your attention because
wait a minute.
I felt like that before.
Yeah, I gotta hear about thisstory.
Um, everyone knows, I likeshitbag as well.
I think that's very I thinkthat's a unique one.
That's not in every song so as,as you progress here, I mean
what, what does 2025 look likefor you, stella?
(24:44):
Where?
Where where's the music headedin?
uh, in this year, yeah, lots,lots going on, um, uh, in may,
um doing these Europe and UKshows, and then have a few
things not yet announced towardsthe end of the year that are
happening as well, which isreally cool, and we, like you
(25:07):
know, have been working on newmusic and so some of that is
going to start to come out inthe next few months, which is
really exciting.
So, just you know, hopefullylike playing shows, making more
music, putting it out, I'mreally excited about the next
like we've been playing a lot ofthe unreleased songs, like on
that us tour in south by, andit's such a like great um thing
(25:31):
to get to do because youliterally get to see people's
like live response.
Like when you're putting thingsout, um, on a normal release
day, you don't talk, you're notseeing any of the people who are
like responding to the music.
So playing live is so importantfor like like almost
mindfulness to be like, oh, I'mdoing this, to like talk to
people at the end of the day.
(25:51):
So that's been really good andjust like keen to do more of
that, keen to like meet morepeople.
I met really lovely people whowould come to the show, some
people who have come from likepretty far distances to come to
the us shows.
So I just want to do more ofthat.
Um, uh, yeah, in may to you.
Chris (26:11):
Are you heading out?
You're heading out on the roadagain in may yeah, yeah.
Stella Birdie (26:15):
so I've got a UK slash Europe tour in May, so
playing some festivals, playingthe Great Escape, focus Wales,
london, calling in Amsterdam,and then a couple of Headland
shows in London, manchester,nottingham.
Chris (26:31):
I want to say yeah, yeah, good for you, good for you.
Well, I'm super pleased withyou accepting this invite.
It's been really fun talkingwith you.
A great story so far and manymore chapters to come.
Listeners, you've got to go andcatch a show, get the record,
(26:52):
buy a t-shirt, support our indieartists as much as you can.
Um, so this has beenfascinating, um, it's been.
You said some things that Iwill reflect upon for probably a
while now, um, as I go through,but I really want to thank you
for for waking up so early andsharing some of your insights
(27:16):
and thoughts about where you'vebeen and where you're going.
Stella Birdie (27:20):
Absolutely.
This is good.
This is like journaling, firstthing.
It's like morning pages andwe're out here at the sunrises
being like, oh, what do I thinkabout?
(27:40):
um, there was a thing that yousaid about, um, coming out of
the darkness into, you know,away from the heartache by
putting out, you know, writingthese songs down.
I feel like this podcast hasbeen like that, where we've gone
from darkness into the lightand, uh, we're starting things
more clearly about stella birdie, yeah, it's all, it's all
linked.
Yeah, I really feel that way.
I think, um, like playing thesongs live and feeling like the
(28:02):
joy and then remembering wherethey came from, like remembering
with organ donor, like thespace that I like like I was in
in what I was writing about, andnow I'm like, first of all,
that feels so distant, but likethat's, the thing that you do
right is like you write aboutthe feeling and then, by the
time you've written it, like thelast line of that song does
(28:23):
come true.
It's like like by by thinkingit over or playing it over,
eventually, like it kind offades into less and less.
So just that's cool.
Shout out to music for that onewell, shout out to that song
too.
Chris (28:37):
So people hang on.
We're going to listen to OrganDonor at the end of this.
Stella, all the best, keeprocking.
I hope one day our paths crossagain and we'll be talking about
a new record down the roadsometime.
Stella Birdie (28:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Oh, it's been a real pleasure,thank you.
(29:25):
All right, the time I'm 29, mybody will turn back to mine.
What damage can it do till then, if I see you in everything?
If you're so scared to be alone, then just become an organ
donor.
You're so scared to be alone,why won't you be my organ donor?
(29:49):
You're picturing me bleedingout.
Even this makes you hate me.
(30:12):
Now, and everybody else can see, you're losing your patience
with me, and nothing is moresickening than talking me
through everything and clashingat my playing hand and never
touching me again.
I stood for hours on the streetTo make your touch seem warm to
(30:37):
me, so nobody can say that I Didanything but fucking try.
And if you're so scared to bealone, then just be calm and
(31:19):
open.
I love you.
I keep the moment on repeatTill it becomes nothing to me.
But by the time I'm 29, my body will turn back
to mine.
What damage can it do till then, if I see you in?
everything.
If you're so scared to be alone, then just become an organ
(00:25):
donor.
You're so scared to be alone,why won't you be my organ donor?
Chris (00:48):
Very nice.
Here we are, it's so cool.
This is the first time thatI've ever done an interview with
my guest in Candlelight, so yay.
Stella Birdie (01:01):
First time for everything you know, check off
every box.
Chris (01:05):
That's right.
That's right, um.
So welcome everyone to anotherepisode of beautiful podcast
season five.
Um, we are traveling really fararound the world here today, um
, and I'm I I didn't realizethis, but we are.
We have a stella birdie comingin from Australia sitting on her
(01:26):
porch with candles because herroommates are still sleeping.
So we'll talk pretty quietlybecause we don't want to wake
her roommates up and the wholeflat is against her all day
saying I'm grumpy because of you.
We don't want that we're notgoing to do that, stella, thank
you.
Thank you for accepting thisinvite and also kudos to you for
(01:46):
getting up so darn early and,um, you know, these time changes
.
Stella Birdie (01:51):
They're dramatic, thank you thank you for having
me.
And also I mean honestly I gotback from the us like a week and
a half ago, so I probablyneeded a reason to wake up early
and actually get myself back ontrack.
I've been sleeping in quitelate, so this is good
Accountability.
Chris (02:12):
All things work out in the end, we'll say so.
Stella, tell me a little bitabout where things began for you
.
Do you have some like memoriesof your you know, as you were
growing up, of where musicreally started to, to show
itself to you and reveal it thatthat this was something that
(02:33):
was going to be a part of yourlife?
Stella Birdie (02:36):
absolutely, yeah, I think, um, my uh sister would
like play me a lot of stuff.
I remember really key points ofum, like I don't know,
downloading her downloading abunch of music for me and um, uh
, like getting really into itthat way, and then also just
(02:56):
writing a lot like I think thatI was writing songs before I
knew what, like what, I wasdoing, that that was what I was
doing.
Um, and like, there are littlelike scrapbook notebooks of me
from like a very young age andsome of them are like clearly a
copy paste of you know whateversong I was getting access to via
the radio, but they were.
(03:17):
You can see, like, um, it'slike you know cave drawings.
You're like, oh, I can see whatyou're trying to do, you'll get
to something at some point.
Um, but yeah, so I think therewas like just a very natural
instinct towards that um, veryearly on, again, before I
realized what I was doing.
And then later on, um, you knowlike kind of I started to like
structure it and go like, oh,how do I do like more of this?
(03:39):
How do I make this my life?
right and now that's.
You know what I'm trying to doamazing.
Well, I think you're doing it.
We'll say you're doing itbecause yeah, I mean from what I
can see um, yeah, I mean it'sdefinitely happening which is
exciting um you said that youwould always have these, like
you know, old vestiges from thepast, that that kind of were,
(04:01):
maybe songy, poetry.
Chris (04:04):
Um, when did you actually start penning songs that that
you thought would have a life tothem and that you would want to
share those with you know,friends, family oh, I think I
was probably like I was 12 whenI got two of my friends to sing
something with me that I hadwritten, but we were like
(04:27):
calling it kind of a band andgot like did it for like a full
school performance, and Iremember that it was a very like
angsty, you know, song aboutlike friendships and
miscommunications, and soclearly some things haven't
changed.
Stella Birdie (04:44):
But but yeah, I remember that and I also I
remember that thing of you knowthat I think everyone
experiences when they're a kid,hopefully, of like you just
never think like, oh, what ifsomeone doesn't like this?
Or what if someone thinksyou're like I want to do this, I
want to share this like, andyou know, I think the the work
of I don't know any artist is totry to get back to that feeling
(05:05):
of when you were a kid and youjust you shared things or did
things because you were like Ithink what I've made is really
cool and I really want to seewhat people think of it.
um, so, yeah, I feel like I wasat that point, you know, like
early, very, very early teens,and then the work is just to try
to get back to that point right, interesting, and did you find
(05:27):
too, like at a young age, thatyou had, you felt, you had that
creative muscle going, like youpracticed it and, and you know,
like pushed it further, furtherand further and further as you
grew up?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, um, I was doing a lotof different kinds of writing.
I wrote a lot of different likescripts and like plays and like
(05:50):
I don't know was one of thosekids who was always getting all
the other kids in theneighborhood to like make the
movie that I had in my head.
I was spending a lot of time oniMovie.
I do remember that, just aclassic vestige of the, you know
, the overthinking child.
Um, uh, yeah, so I think that Iwas just like making things in
(06:15):
a lot, of, a lot of differentways, like a lot of different
mediums, um, but always, always,writing a lot um, and always
writing in verse in a way thatwould become soul structure.
Chris (06:27):
Right.
And were your themes that youwere dabbling in at that younger
age like?
Were those surprising themes toyou?
Or was it kind of a therapy, ina way too, of like just getting
stuff out, putting it down onpaper so you wouldn't just be
tormenting you?
Stella Birdie (06:47):
totally, yeah, I think, um, like I was like in in
many ways like a prettymelancholy kid or a very like
thinking very heavily very earlyon, and so I like, when I look
back on like little scraps thatI still have of things that I
was writing, i'm'm like, ohshe's, she's going through it.
But then there were also thingslike I don't know I wrote like
(07:09):
when I was pretty little still Iwrote like a reinterpretation
of Cinderella, but that was likelike how a feminist slant and
you know Cinderella like doessome women's lib and you know
tries to have a career as well,which is like pretty funny,
funny move for like aseven-year-old to write.
So I think that that kind ofstuff was showing up there
(07:31):
pretty early as well.
Um, yeah, and when.
Chris (07:35):
When did you introduce yourself to guitar songwriter
lyrics like when was that first?
Was that still in your teens,where you started actually
playing a guitar?
Stella Birdie (07:48):
yeah, my um, uh, my mom got me like a second hand
, relatively like, you know, umkind of beaten up but really
nice, uh, acoustic.
And then my sister got me anelectric, which I still have
somewhere.
It's really nice.
It's like this 1970s Japanesemodel, like really tiny guitar
that I need to get fixed becauseit's like unplayable right now.
(08:11):
Um, but yeah, so those were mytwo, like I think it was like.
My mom got me an acoustic to belike, you know, like, learn it,
play like, write songs, blah,blah, blah.
And then my sister got me anelectric to be like and remember
like you can make rock music,like you don't have to make
because you know, obviouslythere's some really brilliant um
acoustic guitar music, um likeI love it, but sometimes you can
(08:34):
get a bit shoehorned um as likesing a songwriter one specific
sound, and I think my sister waslike just remember, you can do
like whatever you want, like youcan write, you know, indie rock
if you want to write indie rock.
And and here we are amazing, andso tell me a little bit about
your process.
How do you go about writingsongs?
(08:55):
How do they?
How do you get an idea and theneither say, yeah, idea, no good
, let's show that.
Maybe I'll pull it out in acouple of years to something
like where a song really startsto spark inside you Like, how do
you?
What's your process?
Like you come up with your,your, your chord progressions
first, and then a melody comesto you, or do you have because I
(09:18):
did read that you're a big fanof of iPhone recorder right For
tracking your, big fan of ofiphone recorder right for, yeah,
tracking your.
Chris (09:27):
can you tell us a little bit about how you go about um,
beginning these songs and thento get them, bring them further
along or scrap them, dependingabsolutely, yeah, I think so I
start with lyrics, always likeI've always been a lyrics first
um writer and a lot of the timesthat's like the notes app of my
phone.
Like I'm not like sometimes Ihandwrite, but a lot of the time
(09:49):
I'm normally coming back fromlike I don't know if I've been
out and I'm like I like to likedo a big walk home and that's
where I do.
A lot of writing is likethinking and processing then.
But you know, like the notesapp means that you can just
access like a little tinyinsulated corner of the world in
(10:10):
any environment you're in um,so I do that, and then normally
I'll have a vocal melody in myhead while I'm writing lyrics,
because it's giving structure tolike it's creating the rules
that I'm then going to likeapply to the song of literally
like rhythm, assonance, all ofthat kind of stuff, and within
the like boundaries of thatstructure, I can.
(10:33):
You know, like you kind of needsometimes to to create a rule so
that you can write, like if, ifyou didn't have any like
structure for what you weregoing to write against, um, it's
harder to write because, likeyou didn't have any like
structure for what you weregoing to write against.
Um, it's harder to writebecause, like you're, like I
could do anything and then thatkind of you know, so you write
nothing, um, uh.
(10:53):
So I'll have a vocal melody inmy head, usually while I'm
writing lyrics, and thennormally, once the song is
written, then I will startplaying it on an instrument like
.
I sometimes start slightlyearlier, but I normally try not
to, because I find that as soonas I start playing it and
singing at the same time, I lockin the lyrics and if I haven't,
like, thought enough about them, I might get really used to
(11:15):
singing a line that later I'mlike, but that doesn't work
there.
So it's like trying not to gettoo used to your own idea.
Stella Birdie (11:24):
Absolutely.
I love this quote that you saidand it made me think I want to
read it because it's so good.
There's so many conversationswe never get to have or times
when we can't make peopleunderstand us, but with
songwriting you can play thosenarratives out in your own terms
and then, hopefully, put themaway.
Can you reflect on that alittle bit?
(11:47):
I just find like I've nevertruly thought about it that way,
but totally like, yes, how didyou come to that about
songwriting, that it could bethis tool of healing?
You know, healing or or gettingout what I didn't.
I can't speak to the personwith.
(12:08):
You know, whoever I'm thinkingabout writing the song for.
Absolutely.
I think that, probably like anyperson doing a craft or in a
creative field, you're trying tobridge what you see as the gap
between how you need toexperience the world and what
the world is willing to let youdo.
(12:28):
You need to experience theworld and what the world is
willing to like let you do.
And I think that I, veryquickly in life, figured out
that, like I want to ruminate onthings much longer than you can
ruminate on things like I wantto like have a conversation over
and over again for a longertime than most people like want
to do that, and and also thingslike just like I don't know, um
like have like more mean and notmore meaning, but, um, I don't
(12:54):
know, I experience things likegood things very intensely and
bad things very intensely, andso when I was like okay, well, I
can't, I don't want to punishmyself for having that
sensitivity, but I also knowthat there are ways in which
it's not compatible with, like,some of the more practical
elements of life.
Um, if I want to ruminate onthis interaction with this
(13:15):
person, but I know that it'sactually not a good thing to
keep having that conversation,how can I still let myself
express that Like not muzzleyourself, um, and writing is
like the way to do that, becauseit's like it's almost like you
know, like talking to a kid andgoing like, okay, I can't
control, you know what's goingto happen for you out there, but
(13:37):
right here you can say whateveryou need to me, and like that's
what the writing process Ithink can be, if you're as long
as you're not judging yourself,um, yeah.
And so I think that just by likeby nature of the fact that I
would be thinking about thatanyway, it's like so you may as
well try to write something andthen get something out of it,
(14:00):
and then you know, like at acertain point, you actually do
get to put the thing downbecause you're like, oh, I've
made this, and so maybe the endgoal of that relationship wasn't
I'm gonna get closure.
The end goal of it was I'mgonna like have this experience,
write about it, feel reallyproud about the thing that I've
written and you know, I don'tknow, I think I've like writing
(14:23):
has actually helped me realizethat closure is like not real,
like um, and writing is a reallygood like band-aid for like
coping with the fact thatclosure is not real and I mean
these, I mean the lyrics thatyou write about and the themes
that you write about are noteasy themes to to put out there
in the world.
(14:43):
Um, and I do feel that it is youworking through things and and
having that conversation thatyou couldn't have, but you're
having it anyway through yourmusic and the melodies and the,
the, the words that you'reputting out there.
Are you?
Do you find that you need tolike, have kind of like these
(15:06):
difficult themes, like that theyinspire you more than you know,
a narrative of some kind whereit's not, maybe it's more
removed from you?
Like, does writing have to beintimate for you?
Like, do you have to writesongs that have have tugged at
your heartstrings or made yousuper, like you know, melancholy
(15:28):
, as you said?
intimate.
It's a great word for it,because it's like I think that
that's that's actually theexperience that I'm usually
pursuing, and sometimes thatmeans it's um, it's melancholy
or um, that it's got some angeror um, some resentment, or you
know bitterness, or you know anyhost of things.
(15:48):
Sometimes it means that it oryou know bitterness or you know
any host of things.
Sometimes it means that it'slike, you know, a really
delicate kind of like love ofany kind, or you know, like, so,
like I'm definitely I'mpursuing intimacy and I'm
pursuing something that, like, Ican't say any other way.
I think that's what I'm tryingto do when I'm writing.
(16:08):
I do notice that I'm not like Idon't say any other way.
I think that's what I'm tryingto do when I'm writing.
I do notice that I'm not like Idon't tend to write when I'm
feeling very content, like Idon't tend to analyze it very
much, which I think is just likea human thing.
So I just have less songs thatare written in those moments
where I'm like you know, likehaving you know they're like
when there are like parts of mylife that I'm feeling very
(16:30):
fulfilled about, I'm just likeless likely to like turn the
microscope on them.
But I am, I am my kind of.
One of my hopes, like longerterm, is that I'll get to a
point where I can write aboutthose things in a way that I
find interesting.
I just like, sometimes I try towrite, you know, I don't know,
like not happier songs strictly,but like songs about those more
(16:52):
like reflective, like lovingmoments, and then I just get
like bored with myself, probablybecause what I have to say I
say like I express thosefeelings pretty directly to
people quite easily.
So it's like, well, I'vealready said it, why do I need
to write?
Chris (17:07):
it.
That's cool, that's a great.
It's a great point, you know,like it's, I think too, like
you're able to put words tothings that are hard to put
words to, which is a greattalent.
Thinking about now you'respeaking terms EP that you put
out November 2024.
(17:27):
What was that process like foryou?
How did you, how did how didthat EP come together, um and
and to, to get to the pointwhere it was eventually released
?
Stella Birdie (17:39):
Yeah, so I hope you're getting these birds in
the background.
Chris (17:42):
It's slowly becoming lighter and lighter.
Stella Birdie (17:45):
It's great you can see more happening.
Uh, yeah, so I mean I actually.
So the first song for the epthat I wrote was he didn't mean
it like that was written theearliest, that was written, in
like mid 2021 and um, and Iwrote it and I was working on it
with one of the co-producersand then kind of sort of put it
(18:07):
down for a bit or had a reallyextended process of like we
would come back to it for a bitand be like, oh, this isn't
quite right or like we're tryingto get it to this point.
But you know, it was hard.
And I was also like, oh god, Ireally said all that, didn't I?
And now, if we put it out, I'llhave said all that forever,
like that's, that's out there,um.
(18:29):
And then I started working withgab gab strum, who ended up
producing like being the mainproducer for the full ep, and we
worked on all these other songstogether and then he didn't
mean it was the last song thatwe finished together.
So it's really like the top andtail of of that whole process,
um, and I think that while wewere making the other songs that
(18:50):
we were making, um, organ donorheadlights six foot drop
actually headlights was alsowith um, my friend and
co-producer, soren.
Um, while we were working onthose songs, it was like it was
like exposure therapy to, likeyou know, saying vulnerable
things, and so by the time wegot to he Didn't Mean it Again.
I was like, yes, like I have toput this out.
(19:11):
Yeah, so I think that, I don'tknow, it was just kind of a
natural extension of the waythat I've been writing for a
while, but just with people likeworking with new people who,
you know, just brought out newelements of the music and who
understood it in this differentway and, um, you know, brought,
(19:35):
brought their own perspective.
But also, I don't know, I thinkone of the really key things is
that, like I never had tojustify, you know, why that
lyric is like that or why thisstructure is like that.
He didn't mean it's quite likea long song.
We did like edit it or cut itdown like ever so slightly, but,
like you know, it's stillstructurally, like it takes
quite a while to get to thatfirst chorus, but there was like
(19:56):
no point at which anyone waslike, oh, maybe, like you know,
this isn't the first song to putout or this isn't a single blah
, blah, blah, like everyone wasjust like.
No, no, I get it.
Um, so I think that was areally key part of the creative
process was like you don't feelas vulnerable when you're not
made to like justify thesechoices that you made about.
(20:17):
You know heavy subject matter,or um, a song that's really
close to you absolutely.
Chris (20:21):
That's a good point.
And and was the productionsomething that you were involved
in from start to finish?
Um, I mean, as you mentioned,you had a producer and stuff,
but did you partake in, um thecrafting of, or were you just
focused on the songs and thedelivery and and letting others
(20:42):
kind of craft it?
Stella Birdie (20:45):
yeah, I mean.
So I was in the like room forlike any time the songs were
being worked on, basically, um,but probably like one or two
times that like some editing orparticularly like vocal, vocal
editing was happening, thatsomeone was just doing it, um,
but yeah, I mean, I think, likeI want to let a producer like
produce and, um, it's likesomething.
(21:07):
Production is something that Iwould love to like develop that
like skill and that muscle likein the next few years, um, but
that, like you know, I like havemore limited experience with,
basically like just for my own,like literal manual skills, um,
but then also, you know, likeanyone who is like work, like
(21:29):
you, you know how you want it tofeel and how you want it to
sound and where to direct it orwhere to be like.
Oh, I want that to happen there.
So usually the way that itworks is that I will have
finished a song pretty muchfully.
Um, you know, bring it, bring itto a producer, or bring a host
of songs to a producer actuallyand be like which of these calls
to you which do you want towork on?
Or bring a host of songs to aproducer actually and be like,
which of these calls to you,which do you want to work on?
(21:51):
And then we kind of like gofrom there.
Um, but yeah, I mean I'm.
I always want to be involved inthe production process because,
like you know, I want everyproduction choice to feel like
it has a narrative explanation,like we're not just putting in
like sounds for fun.
We wanted to feel like we'redoing everything is meant to be
(22:14):
there right, well, yeah, like inheadlights, that's such a like
song that's stacked with so manysounds that come in for two
bars and then never again in thesong and like anytime, we were
like introducing something.
We were really trying to likebuild a world, really, um, like
within that song.
So every single one of those is, like you know, a brick that
you want to be placing onpurpose interesting, yeah,
(22:38):
interesting, and now so I mean,this record's been out for a
handful of months.
Chris (22:43):
When you look back on it, what?
What were your greatestsurprises that you encountered
after the release?
Stella Birdie (22:52):
I think I mean like generally.
My surprise was just it hadbeen a while since I'd put
anything out and it was like theEP is quite, I would say,
different to like not radically,but quite different to things
that I've put out before.
So I think I was just like,really like I don't know.
I felt really grateful how manypeople were listening and like
(23:17):
different people were reachingout and like you know, just like
things like the radio play thatwe got was really cool and I
was not expecting um again,particularly for like some of
those like longer songs, um orlike with heavier content, I
think part of me was like I knowthat I want to put this out,
but also like there might be alimit to how accessible it is or
(23:38):
how viable it is for radiobecause of I don't know the
things that I'm saying, evenjust how much I'm swearing in
some of these songs.
Um, I didn't think about ituntil we were like at the end of
the ep and then I was like, wow, I, I did that a lot.
Um, I think your fuck placementsare like like so good I I enjoy
(23:59):
it.
Seeing starting he didn't meanit with.
I saw that motherfucker is themost fun thing live of all time
because if someone in the crowdhas been maybe like not fully
engaged, you see them like belike what.
They just lock in well, it'slike gut level.
Um, it's a gut level like uh,lyric, you know like, or, or
(24:21):
sentence like yeah surely likepulls your attention because
wait a minute.
I felt like that before.
Yeah, I gotta hear about thisstory.
Um, everyone knows, I likeshitbag as well.
I think that's very I thinkthat's a unique one.
That's not in every song so as,as you progress here, I mean
what, what does 2025 look likefor you, stella?
(24:44):
Where?
Where where's the music headedin?
uh, in this year, yeah, lots,lots going on, um, uh, in may,
um doing these Europe and UKshows, and then have a few
things not yet announced towardsthe end of the year that are
happening as well, which isreally cool, and we, like you
(25:07):
know, have been working on newmusic and so some of that is
going to start to come out inthe next few months, which is
really exciting.
So, just you know, hopefullylike playing shows, making more
music, putting it out, I'mreally excited about the next
like we've been playing a lot ofthe unreleased songs, like on
that us tour in south by, andit's such a like great um thing
(25:31):
to get to do because youliterally get to see people's
like live response.
Like when you're putting thingsout, um, on a normal release
day, you don't talk, you're notseeing any of the people who are
like responding to the music.
So playing live is so importantfor like like almost
mindfulness to be like, oh, I'mdoing this, to like talk to
people at the end of the day.
(25:51):
So that's been really good andjust like keen to do more of
that, keen to like meet morepeople.
I met really lovely people whowould come to the show, some
people who have come from likepretty far distances to come to
the us shows.
So I just want to do more ofthat.
Um, uh, yeah, in may to you.
Chris (26:11):
Are you heading out?
You're heading out on the roadagain in may yeah, yeah.
Stella Birdie (26:15):
so I've got a UK slash Europe tour in May, so
playing some festivals, playingthe Great Escape, focus Wales,
london, calling in Amsterdam,and then a couple of Headland
shows in London, manchester,nottingham.
Chris (26:31):
I want to say yeah, yeah, good for you, good for you.
Well, I'm super pleased withyou accepting this invite.
It's been really fun talkingwith you.
A great story so far and manymore chapters to come.
Listeners, you've got to go andcatch a show, get the record,
(26:52):
buy a t-shirt, support our indieartists as much as you can.
Um, so this has beenfascinating, um, it's been.
You said some things that Iwill reflect upon for probably a
while now, um, as I go through,but I really want to thank you
for for waking up so early andsharing some of your insights
(27:16):
and thoughts about where you'vebeen and where you're going.
Stella Birdie (27:20):
Absolutely.
This is good.
This is like journaling, firstthing.
It's like morning pages andwe're out here at the sunrises
being like, oh, what do I thinkabout?
(27:40):
um, there was a thing that yousaid about, um, coming out of
the darkness into, you know,away from the heartache by
putting out, you know, writingthese songs down.
I feel like this podcast hasbeen like that, where we've gone
from darkness into the lightand, uh, we're starting things
more clearly about stella birdie, yeah, it's all, it's all
linked.
Yeah, I really feel that way.
I think, um, like playing thesongs live and feeling like the
(28:02):
joy and then remembering wherethey came from, like remembering
with organ donor, like thespace that I like like I was in
in what I was writing about, andnow I'm like, first of all,
that feels so distant, but likethat's, the thing that you do
right is like you write aboutthe feeling and then, by the
time you've written it, like thelast line of that song does
(28:23):
come true.
It's like like by by thinkingit over or playing it over,
eventually, like it kind offades into less and less.
So just that's cool.
Shout out to music for that onewell, shout out to that song
too.
Chris (28:37):
So people hang on.
We're going to listen to OrganDonor at the end of this.
Stella, all the best, keeprocking.
I hope one day our paths crossagain and we'll be talking about
a new record down the roadsometime.
Stella Birdie (28:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Oh, it's been a real pleasure,thank you.
(29:25):
All right, the time I'm 29, mybody will turn back to mine.
What damage can it do till then, if I see you in everything?
If you're so scared to be alone, then just become an organ
donor.
You're so scared to be alone,why won't you be my organ donor?
(29:49):
You're picturing me bleedingout.
Even this makes you hate me.
(30:12):
Now, and everybody else can see, you're losing your patience
with me, and nothing is moresickening than talking me
through everything and clashingat my playing hand and never
touching me again.
I stood for hours on the streetTo make your touch seem warm to
(30:37):
me, so nobody can say that I Didanything but fucking try.
And if you're so scared to bealone, then just be calm and
(31:19):
open.
I love you.
I keep the moment on repeatTill it becomes nothing to me.
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