May 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Dive into the creative world of Brooklyn-based indie artist Caroline Strickland as she unpacks the emotional journey behind her latest EP "Martha's Calling." From humble beginnings playing her father's guitar at age 13 to forming her high school band "RIP ROX" (named after her drummer's deceased lizard), Caroline's path to songwriting authenticity reveals the beautiful evolution of an artist finding her voice.
Caroline candidly discusses how her creative process has transformed over time—from the youthful days when songs would "just pour out" to her current, more deliberate approach to crafting music. This evolution mirrors her growth as both an artist and person, particularly through challenging periods like breakups that sparked some of her most powerful work.
The conversation delves into the fascinating origins of "Martha's Calling," where Martha emerges as a metaphorical figure representing Caroline's "desire for a sign and something to save me." What began as a character in a concept EP evolved into a profound exploration of seeking external validation during times of inner turmoil. Perhaps most touching is the story behind "Prettiest Girl of Heaven," born from a stranger's comment while Caroline was crying on a Manhattan street—a perfect example of how unexpected moments can catalyze creativity.
Looking forward, Caroline shares her excitement about leaning more into indie rock for future projects, including a potential full-length album. She's embracing a balanced approach to music-making while preparing for upcoming performances, including opening for Bria Salmena in Brooklyn and an East Coast DIY tour.
Support independent artists like Caroline by streaming her music, attending shows, and purchasing merchandise. Her authentic songwriting and evolving sound make her an artist worth following as she continues to transform personal struggles into compelling musical stories that resonate with listeners everywhere.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
All righty, here we are, another episode like that
he played in the closet.
Alrighty, here we are, anotherepisode of If it Were A Podcast
coming to you.
We're flying over to Brooklynhere today, on a sleepy Sunday.
I have Caroline Strickland withme out of Brooklyn, singer,
songwriter.
It's like indie rock folk.
It tugs at many heartstrings,uh, emotionally, but also
(01:08):
rockingly.
Um, yeah, I, I.
I read something um carolynwhere it said that, um, that an
electric guitar was somethingreally important when it came
into your life, because yourealized that you could rock it
out now.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah totally.
I started playing guitar when Iwas like 13 or 14.
And I was just playing on mydad's guitar when I was starting
to learn.
And then I got my own and itwas an electric and I was like,
oh yeah, took me a long time toget any good at it, but here we
are.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
There you go.
Well, practice makes perfect,right?
Yeah, and if we were to rewindin time a little bit, carolyn,
where did music start to reallypercolate for you, or where did
your awareness start to happen,where music might be more than
just, you know, turning on theradio and listen to music, but
actually partaking in thedevelopment and production of
(02:03):
music?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
partaking in the development and production of
music, I think in terms of likelistening to music actively.
I've done that since I was akid and I am a music lover and
always have been.
But then I decided I was like,oh, I think I want to make music
and write songs.
When I was in high school Istarted a band with two of my
friends.
The band was called rip rocks RI P R O X and uh, it was the
(02:26):
shortened version of the phrase.
Rest in peace, roxy, which wasour drummer's lizard that died,
and so that's like how you namebands when you're 16 um in his
basement every day of the week.
But, uh, yeah.
So we started this band and Imean I didn't write much for it
at the start.
We did covers, we played SweetSixteens, we played our prom.
(02:47):
We weren't any good but we hadfun.
But I mean that was the timethat I was like I started, I
really dove into the stuff withthe band and we all stayed
together through college.
But then I moved to New Yorkand the two other members of the
band stayed in Virginia.
So then that's when I startedmy solo stuff, like right when I
moved to the city.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, interesting, yeah, and you mentioned that you
didn't start writing songsuntil a little bit later on.
What was that transition like,like?
When did you realize thatsongwriting was something that
you liked to do and wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I mean, I think it was.
We were in this band and youknow, in high school and what we
stayed here through college.
It was all of our first yearsof college and we were like we
need to write a song and be areal band and have original
music.
So we commissioned basicallyour, our.
She played violin, cecilia ourviolin player, and she also
played guitar.
We just were double guitars.
(03:44):
Like, you got to write a songfor us because she was the
smartest of us, so you can writea song because you're smart and
it's going to sound good.
She wrote us a great song, ourfirst ever original.
And then from there I was likewait, I want to do that.
I was maybe not jealous, but Iwas like, and we're best friends
, we're still close to this day,but like you know this, I just
was like, wait, I want to dothat and I think I could.
(04:07):
And I was excited by the ideathat cecilia and I I knew would
be so different in the way thatwe wrote and I was like, oh,
everybody has to bring somethingto the table for this to be a
real band, otherwise this isjust cecil's project.
And nobody wanted that, evenCecilia.
So anyway, I wrote my first songfor us, which was called Green
(04:30):
Eyes.
It's out in the world, you canlisten to it.
You put it out, it's fine, it'sfine.
Sure, it's the first song thatI really wrote, that I was like
I'm trying to write a song and Idon't know that.
I was like I'm trying to writea song and I don't know.
I was 19 and so I just thoughtmy first idea of like what a
song should be was like peopleshould be able to dance to it.
(04:52):
So I was purpose.
That was my, my like marker ofif the song was good, if, like
when we played live, which was alot, but like two very few
people, um, I was like are they?
Am I getting them dancing?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
so that's my goal and were you successful with?
With?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
sometimes.
Sometimes I mean it justdepended on the day right right,
right.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know it's funny you say that too that the first
shows, in talking with a lot ofmusicians, they always say that
they feel like they're on tosomething.
When people are showing up totheir shows that they might not
know, like, yeah, you knowthey've heard about you somehow
or read something or whatever,that that that's the the moment
(05:39):
where they start started to feellike a band, you know, when
they didn't have to inviteeverybody to the show.
That transition, how do you goabout songwriting, like, do you
have a routine or a structurethat you tend to?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
follow when you're in your creative process?
I think I don't.
I think it really depends on,like, the era I'm in.
When I was young I mean, I'mnot much older now like a couple
years ago, when I was felt alot younger, things would just
pour out all at the same time,like lyrics and music, and I
would just get an idea and runwith it.
(06:17):
Um, then I started playing morein other people's bands and
doing work in theater a bit andI started just playing guitar
more.
I also teach music and soplaying guitar more made me like
separate the music and thelyrics a bit.
And so now, as I've gottenolder, I think I take way more
(06:41):
time and I'm not as urgent aboutit.
So, in terms of like a process,I don't go in any particular
order.
Sometimes I have a lyric first,sometimes I have a melody first
, you know, and it's more justabout piecing them together.
And I used to think that thatwas like not organic and that if
I was writing a song that wayand it didn't just come out like
(07:02):
magic, it wasn't any good.
But I think now I realize thatthat's you know, that's what you
think when you're 19, how songsare made, and then you realize,
like, oh, I guess that's not.
I guess you have to work reallyhard.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So that's what I'm coming to learn now, as I'm
writing new stuff at the momentcool and do you have, like you
were saying, like in yourearlier years, like it would
just pour out of you?
Have you maintained that in thesense that that you never hit
walls, or do you hit wallssometimes where you just kind of
like I'm, I'm searching forsomething to come?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I hit walls for sure.
I hit a big wall after Ibetween like my first ever epa I
put out, which was only threesongs, it was called watch and
then, after I put that out and Iwas trying to write for my
second ep, which is the one Ijust put out, martha's calling I
was totally like it was like ayear and I just was so a lot of
(07:55):
it, I think, was in my headwhere I just anything that came
out I was like that's no goodand I would scratch it and I
would be really self-deprecating.
But yeah, I also think therewas a genuine in that year like
genuine lack of inspiration andlack of focus as well.
I think it goes both ways, likeyou have to give as much as
you're getting to whatever museyou get from, and so I wasn't
(08:19):
giving a lot, so I wasn'tgetting, and then I kind of I
don't know what reclicked.
I think it was because I likewent through a breakup and so
that's like classic, that'sclassic fodder for songs, and so
that was a good revamp.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So thanks for that for that person was was most of
um your latest Martha's Calling?
Was that a lot of it based onthat period of time when you're
going through that struggle andbreakup?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
A lot like some of it was yeah, uh, the song
Chinatown, which is the lasttrack, and the song um, what's
right before it.
I know all the songs PrettyScroll of Heaven, that song,
both of them are like I wroteafter I went through this
breakup A year and a half agonow a long time ago.
But there's three songs beforethat on the EP Loving you Right,
(09:09):
martha's Calling and SingleAction Army.
I all, all of them I hadwritten before.
But during this relationshipthat I knew was ending, I wrote
Loving you like about how I waslike.
You know it was months beforewe broke up, but I was like this
.
I just have this terriblefeeling and it was so sad, you
(09:29):
know.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Um, yeah, yeah, it's interesting like how that, how
those darker periods or harderperiods open these doors to
areas which maybe, if we werehappy, we wouldn't find, you
know or everything was content.
Do you find that that?
It's that that it's harder totake a a rosy perspective on
(09:54):
your songwriting, in the sensethat you know, writing about
unicorns and rainbows and stufflike that just is is much more
difficult than when something'stugging at your heartstrings
totally yes, I recently wastrying to write my next project
I'm hoping to do a full lengthand so I'm trying to write a lot
and, just you know, get thebest ones out of writing a bunch
(10:16):
.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
and I was trying to write a song the other day.
That was just like a pure, likelove song Not that I'm in love
at the moment, but just likewhat could that look like?
And even writing it, I was likethere's something like dark
about this, like I don't havethe ability to be so pure in
that, like goodness, I don'tthink anybody does.
And so, yeah, in that, likegoodness, I don't think anybody
(10:44):
does.
and so, yeah, I I do find itdifficult to be like rainbows
and unicorns, even though I liketo feel that way in my daily
life, sure, but I don't think itcomes out.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The songs now yeah, it's a little harder to inspire,
right when you're just likefeeling great and it's like,
yeah, what am I gonna tap into?
I gotta have something to tapinto.
And, caroline, when, when youwere putting this, this record,
to together, I've read thatmartha is a imaginary figure or
(11:11):
figure.
That helped you inspire alittle bit.
Can you tell us who martha is?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
yeah, it's so ambiguous, but, martha, so the
whole thing started when I justlike thought of the phrase
Martha's calling, and it waskind of back in long enough ago
that it was still like when Iwould like get ideas and I would
think like, like, this is justgonna pour out of me, like, oh,
there's my inspiration, I got it.
So I have this idea, martha'scalling, martha's calling.
(11:39):
And it kept like ringing in myhead and I really wanted to do
like a concept, ep, and I wantedit to be about a character.
And so you noted in thequestions you sent me over, you
noted that I said I was apainter and that I was talking
about, like my character that Ihad made up.
So I was never a painter, but Imade up this whole character
(11:59):
who was a painter of like setdesign at the ballet and like he
was going through block and hedidn't know what to paint for
the ballet, basically, and so itwas.
I never wrote it out, it was allthat was in my head.
But, martha, I was trying todecide like is going to be like
this character's love interest,or is she like his agent?
(12:22):
Is she his boss?
Is she someone randomly meetson the street.
So that was the origin and Iknew Martha just because I liked
the name and because I wanted.
I was basically trying todiscover like I am, this
character, I'm this like, likepainter, but it's really me, but
I wasn't like admitting it andI felt like who am I?
(12:44):
who?
Who or what emotion is likebeing like, really weighed down
right now within me, and sowould it be coming from like the
lover, like is my relationship?
Or like would it be coming frommy boss?
Like do I hate my job?
Like what's?
What's making me so depressed?
Um, and then I just kind ofdropped it.
I didn't like the idea.
(13:05):
I couldn't write anything.
I went through this breakup, Iwas random, everything was just
like not, it wasn't working.
And then I, and then I justreally decided I was like okay,
martha is just like my desirefor a sign and something to save
me.
I think everybody like wantsthere to be an answer and wants
(13:30):
there to be like a figure togive you the answer.
So that was who Martha was tome.
I was like Martha's calling,like she's going to be the one
to get me through this and she'sgonna give me the answer, she's
gonna give me the songs.
But then, as I finished the EPand the order of the EP matters
to me because on that last song,chinatown it's like the
(13:50):
culmination of like you'veexited, like spiritual delusion,
and Martha has melted away andthere is no more martha, and
like now.
You're like sitting on thebench and you're accepting
reality.
So martha is like a figure, butshe's more like an illustration
of, of denial, and if for me,what that looks like is like
(14:14):
like spiritual delusion and likelooking for signs and
everything.
So I was like yeah, if thatmakes any sense.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, totally, totally Like.
I get this idea too that it isit easier to write when you have
a persona and it's not likedirectly attached to you or
coming out of you, like you havethis kind of filter almost
where you can say no, no, it'snot me, it's caroline, this is
martha talking.
Or does that make things easierin in in the writing process or
(14:43):
sharing um intimate things or,you know, close things to your
heart?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think it can.
I think most of the songs arereally from me, but I am like
martha is like there holding myhand, like it's less of like a
filter and more with this EP.
It was like she was like nextto me I don't know how to
describe it, not exactly thatshe was the main character,
(15:10):
which is also something I wantedto play with, like writing to
someone, like not a concept EP,like about a fake character, but
rather like a more meta take onit, where it's like I am really
carol, I'm really writing thesesongs, but I'm like making up
this person about it.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
um, interesting, but yeah, I don't know that's kind
of a double meaning too right,because martha's calling is like
what she's destined to do.
Yes, but it's also she'scalling you like.
Hey, like I saw your video andit's the red phone on the steps
and so I'm so glad you got thatdouble thing going on which I
(15:49):
really appreciate.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh, yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I also read that the prettiest girl of heaven has a
really cool story to it.
Yeah, and I know that it seemed.
Heaven has a really cool storyto it, yeah, and I know that it
seemed to be a really tough timefor you.
Could you, could you, sharesome of the pieces of that that
you feel comfortable sharing?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Oh, totally I.
It was November 2023.
And I had gone through thisbreakup.
Really cool.
It would have been likeseptember and october.
You know, breakups take acouple months to settle in, and
so that fall was really bad andI was working at a store called
madewell at the time, like insoho, new york.
It was just like a retail job.
(16:29):
I didn't have a like a good,steady job at the time.
I was super broke.
I missed my ex-boyfriend, likeit was it.
I was just life was could nothave been worse, and I was left
my shift.
I was so and I still am.
I will cry anywhere.
I don't care about crying inpublic.
I was, and at that time I wascrying a lot.
(16:50):
So I was like bawling, bawling,bawling my eyes out on the
street.
I was walking in Manhattan andthis guy, just just random,
whoever guy yelled at me you areone of the prettiest girls in
heaven.
And maybe he saw me crying andwas like I'm going to lift her
up, but also like don't yell atwomen.
But I loved it to be honest,Like I was like you know, it
(17:12):
kind of made me snap back toreality a bit.
It was nice to have someonejust yell at me.
Snap back to reality a bit.
It was nice to have someonejust yell at me.
And as he walked, as I walkedaway I don't put this in the
song, but he was like and youhave a great ass, but and I was
like, okay for that part, butthe prettiest girl of heaven
part.
I really latched on to that andthen wrote this song amazing
(17:35):
amazing, great song too.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Like it feels, inspired you know, like yeah,
like something happened and youhad to go and like get it out,
which was great, I love it.
Great story um thank you.
It's so cool how, how some songscome to be and you'll never
forget those experiences there.
Yeah, they're like thisattachment that you um.
So, looking back a little bit,I mean it's only been out since
(17:58):
march 7th, right you're?
You're the latest ep.
How's your, how's your visionof it, caroline?
How have you felt the reactionhas been towards it and is it?
Is it what you expected?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
yeah, I feel really good about it.
I mean, I, you know it's stilla grind.
I'm still a small artist, but Idefinitely feel like this is
the project where, like you weresaying before, like when people
you don't know react to yourstuff, like that's been
happening a lot more with thisproject, um, and I think it's uh
, yeah, I'm just proud of it.
(18:33):
I think it's obvious.
It's the most like top levelthing I've ever done and put out
, and I think people appreciatethat.
I think what I?
I'm still such like a live showperson so I am like think more
about like how are peoplereacting to my live shows?
Now, if this ep can get themout to my live stuff, that's
great, and I have a lot of goodlive stuff lined up for the
(18:54):
spring.
But, yeah, in terms of reaction, I feel like people are liking
it.
I put out a video alongside theep release for prettiest girl of
heaven, um, and I think I'mreally proud of that it's.
I think people like it.
Yeah, I mean, I, overall I'mhappy and I just, you're right,
it's only been out a coupleweeks, so I'm like still, you
(19:15):
know, trying to get that.
First couple of weeks, firstcouple of months, excitement
rolling yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Are you enjoying the hustle of being an independent
artist?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's yeah, I mean it's a hustle.
I love that.
I love it.
You know it's the best.
I put out this EP with a labelcalled Good Eye Records out of
Beacon, new York, and that'sbeen like a great help.
You know it's a smallindependent label but like being
with just having one otherperson behind the EP with me has
(19:49):
been really helpful.
So it's made the grind a lotless like intense but at the
same time, like you know, withmore success comes more grind
and with more grind comes moresuccess.
Just the endless cycle of likeyou work hard and then you
achieve what you want and thenyou have to kind of go off that.
So I think just seeing thestepping stones of you know,
(20:13):
small achievements here in NewYork scene and then, like as it
it, I hope it will progressoutside of the city for sure
it's intimidating but exciting.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So, yeah, I do like the grind well, made it all the
way up here to ice freezingcanada um seriously and it's
been a real pleasure.
You know, one thing that youmentioned before is the, the
flow of the songs.
I can tell that it was paid.
You know you paid a lot ofattention to that because it has
a really good flow.
Usually, like I have to listento the whole thing because it's
(20:45):
like no one feeds into the next,into the next, so I really
appreciate that oh good um, andlooking to your next, you know
you, you say you're still stillsongwriting.
Are you looking, do you want tokeep along the same vein or are
you going to try somethingdifferent?
Or a new producer?
Like, what's your thinking nowfor the next project?
(21:06):
Like, how might it be a littlebit different than what you just
put up?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, I think a lot of it, I think will be the songs
that I have so far that areready and done and that I've
been playing live.
I think they're leaning moretowards the indie rock, away
from the Martha's Calling track,which is a bit softer and more
gently produced, and thenleaning more into the Chinatown
(21:35):
style of production, even Lovingyou Right, which both are just
like kind of heavier I meanthey're not heavy, but just like
more classic guitar driven,like sharper tracks.
And so I think leaning into theRock is something I've wanted
to do for a long time, likesince finishing Martha's Calling
a year ago or over a year ago along time like since finishing
(21:57):
Martha's Calling a year ago orover a year ago.
And then, in terms of thesongwriting, I think it, I'm
excited to see what comes out ofme.
At first, like when I put thisout, I was like I have to write
nine songs right now, but I'mtrying to be a bit more patient
with myself.
So I don't know in terms of thecontent and the style of
songwriting.
(22:17):
We'll see what comes out of mein the next couple months.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Interesting Are you feeling inspired and creative
these days?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, in a way that I haven't experienced, it's not
like sparks flying in my brainall the time.
But, like I was saying before,I've been doing a lot more music
work outside of my own projectand I think that's really
helpful because it just keepsyour body and brain in the
practice.
Like I play guitar in a couplebands and just that alone I
(22:49):
don't know why it just allows meto like more calmly face my own
project, because it's not theonly thing I like have the
guitar outlet for anymore.
So, in terms of inspiration, myfeeling inspired like some days
yeah, I wrote a song the otherday and like a lot of times I'll
write a song and I, you know Ithink that I won't stick with it
(23:13):
, but then I ended up playing itlive at a show and I was like,
okay, so maybe I do like it, soit's just a lot less intense.
I always feel like that word,like inspired is, can be so
intense and I'm like I don'tknow if I'm inspired, but I'm
definitely writing.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Cool, yeah, well, you're, you're, you're, you're
growing your muscle, yourcreative, creativity, muscle,
right Like it.
It definitely needs, um, youknow, coaxing sometimes and it
just doesn't happen just to boomout of the blue.
It's the experiences you gainand where you put yourself, and
I'm excited for you, I'm excitedto hear, um, what's coming down
(23:48):
the road for you.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So just to close off, Carolyn, so you said you're
going to be doing some shows aswell over the spring, summertime
I'm um, playing at babies allright here in new york with an
artist called bria salmena whojust put out her solo debut on
sub pop.
Um, yeah, she's awesome.
I've been a fan of her for likefour years.
Um, I saw her open for, uh,wolf alice at bowery ballroom
(24:13):
here in new y York like fouryears ago, and I've stuck a fan
and so it's a great moment tohave an artist you love, and so
I'll open for a venue calledBabies Alright here in Brooklyn
at the end of April.
And then I'm doing the DIY tourwith a band who's a good friend
called Babe Lewis out ofVirginia, and we're just going
(24:34):
to run up and down the EastCoast in the U S and play some
basements and, yeah, that's atthe beginning of May, so stay
tuned for that If you're in theStates.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Cool, cool.
Well, listeners out there,please go and check out Carolyn.
She's an amazing songwriter.
It's got some great moxie to tothese songs.
They're not.
They do tug at the heart, heart.
But they also give some drivinglike maybe you'll dance, who
knows?
And get a record, go see a show, buy a t-shirt um support these
(25:07):
independent artists.
They need all the help they canget to keep creating these
amazing um, eps, lps, songs, etc.
Nice, all the best, caroline.
This has been really fun.
Thanks for joining me today onthis amazing EPs, lps, songs, et
cetera.
Nice, all the best, caroline.
This has been really fun.
Thanks for joining me today onthis sleepy Sunday.
This has been really funtalking with you and I wish you
all the best in in in the nextyear.
(25:27):
What happens if you ever wantto hop back on and talk about
something else?
Let's be in touch.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Totally.
Thanks so much, really enjoyedit.
Great.
Oh, baby Martha's.
She's asking where have yougone?
(25:58):
Where have you gone?
She's begging me to explain whyyou left.
I say now, martha, you're upset, you're upset, you're upset,
(26:22):
you're upset Martha's calling.
Martha's calling, Martha'scalling.
(26:44):
Oh, the wind meets thehurricane.
I push the tears from your eyesand know that.
Are you waiting on an answer tosave you?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
For the light upon the water to tell you who's the
far and frightening voice thatcompels you.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Oh, Martha is a vision and you're a California
liar who can't make a decision.
No, Martha's waiting patiently.
There's a hand for you to hold.
It's a call on the line Ringingsoftly.
(27:36):
It's a call on the line ringingsoftly.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Martha's call.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Martha's calling, martha's calling, martha's
calling, martha's calling iscalling.
All righty, here we are, another episode like that
he played in the closet.
Alrighty, here we are, anotherepisode of If it Were A Podcast
coming to you.
We're flying over to Brooklynhere today, on a sleepy Sunday.
I have Caroline Strickland withme out of Brooklyn, singer,
songwriter.
It's like indie rock folk.
It tugs at many heartstrings,uh, emotionally, but also
(01:08):
rockingly.
Um, yeah, I, I.
I read something um carolynwhere it said that, um, that an
electric guitar was somethingreally important when it came
into your life, because yourealized that you could rock it
out now.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah totally.
I started playing guitar when Iwas like 13 or 14.
And I was just playing on mydad's guitar when I was starting
to learn.
And then I got my own and itwas an electric and I was like,
oh yeah, took me a long time toget any good at it, but here we
are.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
There you go.
Well, practice makes perfect,right?
Yeah, and if we were to rewindin time a little bit, carolyn,
where did music start to reallypercolate for you, or where did
your awareness start to happen,where music might be more than
just, you know, turning on theradio and listen to music, but
actually partaking in thedevelopment and production of
(02:03):
music?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
partaking in the development and production of
music, I think in terms of likelistening to music actively.
I've done that since I was akid and I am a music lover and
always have been.
But then I decided I was like,oh, I think I want to make music
and write songs.
When I was in high school Istarted a band with two of my
friends.
The band was called rip rocks RI P R O X and uh, it was the
(02:26):
shortened version of the phrase.
Rest in peace, roxy, which wasour drummer's lizard that died,
and so that's like how you namebands when you're 16 um in his
basement every day of the week.
But, uh, yeah.
So we started this band and Imean I didn't write much for it
at the start.
We did covers, we played SweetSixteens, we played our prom.
(02:47):
We weren't any good but we hadfun.
But I mean that was the timethat I was like I started, I
really dove into the stuff withthe band and we all stayed
together through college.
But then I moved to New Yorkand the two other members of the
band stayed in Virginia.
So then that's when I startedmy solo stuff, like right when I
moved to the city.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, interesting, yeah, and you mentioned that you
didn't start writing songsuntil a little bit later on.
What was that transition like,like?
When did you realize thatsongwriting was something that
you liked to do and wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I mean, I think it was.
We were in this band and youknow, in high school and what we
stayed here through college.
It was all of our first yearsof college and we were like we
need to write a song and be areal band and have original
music.
So we commissioned basicallyour, our.
She played violin, cecilia ourviolin player, and she also
played guitar.
We just were double guitars.
(03:44):
Like, you got to write a songfor us because she was the
smartest of us, so you can writea song because you're smart and
it's going to sound good.
She wrote us a great song, ourfirst ever original.
And then from there I was likewait, I want to do that.
I was maybe not jealous, but Iwas like, and we're best friends
, we're still close to this day,but like you know this, I just
was like, wait, I want to dothat and I think I could.
(04:07):
And I was excited by the ideathat cecilia and I I knew would
be so different in the way thatwe wrote and I was like, oh,
everybody has to bring somethingto the table for this to be a
real band, otherwise this isjust cecil's project.
And nobody wanted that, evenCecilia.
So anyway, I wrote my first songfor us, which was called Green
(04:30):
Eyes.
It's out in the world, you canlisten to it.
You put it out, it's fine, it'sfine.
Sure, it's the first song thatI really wrote, that I was like
I'm trying to write a song and Idon't know that.
I was like I'm trying to writea song and I don't know.
I was 19 and so I just thoughtmy first idea of like what a
song should be was like peopleshould be able to dance to it.
(04:52):
So I was purpose.
That was my, my like marker ofif the song was good, if, like
when we played live, which was alot, but like two very few
people, um, I was like are they?
Am I getting them dancing?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
so that's my goal and were you successful with?
With?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
sometimes.
Sometimes I mean it justdepended on the day right right,
right.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know it's funny you say that too that the first
shows, in talking with a lot ofmusicians, they always say that
they feel like they're on tosomething.
When people are showing up totheir shows that they might not
know, like, yeah, you knowthey've heard about you somehow
or read something or whatever,that that that's the the moment
(05:39):
where they start started to feellike a band, you know, when
they didn't have to inviteeverybody to the show.
That transition, how do you goabout songwriting, like, do you
have a routine or a structurethat you tend to?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
follow when you're in your creative process?
I think I don't.
I think it really depends on,like, the era I'm in.
When I was young I mean, I'mnot much older now like a couple
years ago, when I was felt alot younger, things would just
pour out all at the same time,like lyrics and music, and I
would just get an idea and runwith it.
(06:17):
Um, then I started playing morein other people's bands and
doing work in theater a bit andI started just playing guitar
more.
I also teach music and soplaying guitar more made me like
separate the music and thelyrics a bit.
And so now, as I've gottenolder, I think I take way more
(06:41):
time and I'm not as urgent aboutit.
So, in terms of like a process,I don't go in any particular
order.
Sometimes I have a lyric first,sometimes I have a melody first
, you know, and it's more justabout piecing them together.
And I used to think that thatwas like not organic and that if
I was writing a song that wayand it didn't just come out like
(07:02):
magic, it wasn't any good.
But I think now I realize thatthat's you know, that's what you
think when you're 19, how songsare made, and then you realize,
like, oh, I guess that's not.
I guess you have to work reallyhard.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So that's what I'm coming to learn now, as I'm
writing new stuff at the momentcool and do you have, like you
were saying, like in yourearlier years, like it would
just pour out of you?
Have you maintained that in thesense that that you never hit
walls, or do you hit wallssometimes where you just kind of
like I'm, I'm searching forsomething to come?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
I hit walls for sure.
I hit a big wall after Ibetween like my first ever epa I
put out, which was only threesongs, it was called watch and
then, after I put that out and Iwas trying to write for my
second ep, which is the one Ijust put out, martha's calling I
was totally like it was like ayear and I just was so a lot of
(07:55):
it, I think, was in my headwhere I just anything that came
out I was like that's no goodand I would scratch it and I
would be really self-deprecating.
But yeah, I also think therewas a genuine in that year like
genuine lack of inspiration andlack of focus as well.
I think it goes both ways, likeyou have to give as much as
you're getting to whatever museyou get from, and so I wasn't
(08:19):
giving a lot, so I wasn'tgetting, and then I kind of I
don't know what reclicked.
I think it was because I likewent through a breakup and so
that's like classic, that'sclassic fodder for songs, and so
that was a good revamp.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So thanks for that for that person was was most of
um your latest Martha's Calling?
Was that a lot of it based onthat period of time when you're
going through that struggle andbreakup?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
A lot like some of it was yeah, uh, the song
Chinatown, which is the lasttrack, and the song um, what's
right before it.
I know all the songs PrettyScroll of Heaven, that song,
both of them are like I wroteafter I went through this
breakup A year and a half agonow a long time ago.
But there's three songs beforethat on the EP Loving you Right,
(09:09):
martha's Calling and SingleAction Army.
I all, all of them I hadwritten before.
But during this relationshipthat I knew was ending, I wrote
Loving you like about how I waslike.
You know it was months beforewe broke up, but I was like this
.
I just have this terriblefeeling and it was so sad, you
(09:29):
know.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Um, yeah, yeah, it's interesting like how that, how
those darker periods or harderperiods open these doors to
areas which maybe, if we werehappy, we wouldn't find, you
know or everything was content.
Do you find that that?
It's that that it's harder totake a a rosy perspective on
(09:54):
your songwriting, in the sensethat you know, writing about
unicorns and rainbows and stufflike that just is is much more
difficult than when something'stugging at your heartstrings
totally yes, I recently wastrying to write my next project
I'm hoping to do a full lengthand so I'm trying to write a lot
and, just you know, get thebest ones out of writing a bunch
(10:16):
.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
and I was trying to write a song the other day.
That was just like a pure, likelove song Not that I'm in love
at the moment, but just likewhat could that look like?
And even writing it, I was likethere's something like dark
about this, like I don't havethe ability to be so pure in
that, like goodness, I don'tthink anybody does.
And so, yeah, in that, likegoodness, I don't think anybody
(10:44):
does.
and so, yeah, I I do find itdifficult to be like rainbows
and unicorns, even though I liketo feel that way in my daily
life, sure, but I don't think itcomes out.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
The songs now yeah, it's a little harder to inspire,
right when you're just likefeeling great and it's like,
yeah, what am I gonna tap into?
I gotta have something to tapinto.
And, caroline, when, when youwere putting this, this record,
to together, I've read thatmartha is a imaginary figure or
(11:11):
figure.
That helped you inspire alittle bit.
Can you tell us who martha is?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
yeah, it's so ambiguous, but, martha, so the
whole thing started when I justlike thought of the phrase
Martha's calling, and it waskind of back in long enough ago
that it was still like when Iwould like get ideas and I would
think like, like, this is justgonna pour out of me, like, oh,
there's my inspiration, I got it.
So I have this idea, martha'scalling, martha's calling.
(11:39):
And it kept like ringing in myhead and I really wanted to do
like a concept, ep, and I wantedit to be about a character.
And so you noted in thequestions you sent me over, you
noted that I said I was apainter and that I was talking
about, like my character that Ihad made up.
So I was never a painter, but Imade up this whole character
(11:59):
who was a painter of like setdesign at the ballet and like he
was going through block and hedidn't know what to paint for
the ballet, basically, and so itwas.
I never wrote it out, it was allthat was in my head.
But, martha, I was trying todecide like is going to be like
this character's love interest,or is she like his agent?
(12:22):
Is she his boss?
Is she someone randomly meetson the street.
So that was the origin and Iknew Martha just because I liked
the name and because I wanted.
I was basically trying todiscover like I am, this
character, I'm this like, likepainter, but it's really me, but
I wasn't like admitting it andI felt like who am I?
(12:44):
who?
Who or what emotion is likebeing like, really weighed down
right now within me, and sowould it be coming from like the
lover, like is my relationship?
Or like would it be coming frommy boss?
Like do I hate my job?
Like what's?
What's making me so depressed?
Um, and then I just kind ofdropped it.
I didn't like the idea.
(13:05):
I couldn't write anything.
I went through this breakup, Iwas random, everything was just
like not, it wasn't working.
And then I, and then I justreally decided I was like okay,
martha is just like my desirefor a sign and something to save
me.
I think everybody like wantsthere to be an answer and wants
(13:30):
there to be like a figure togive you the answer.
So that was who Martha was tome.
I was like Martha's calling,like she's going to be the one
to get me through this and she'sgonna give me the answer, she's
gonna give me the songs.
But then, as I finished the EPand the order of the EP matters
to me because on that last song,chinatown it's like the
(13:50):
culmination of like you'veexited, like spiritual delusion,
and Martha has melted away andthere is no more martha, and
like now.
You're like sitting on thebench and you're accepting
reality.
So martha is like a figure, butshe's more like an illustration
of, of denial, and if for me,what that looks like is like
(14:14):
like spiritual delusion and likelooking for signs and
everything.
So I was like yeah, if thatmakes any sense.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, totally, totally Like.
I get this idea too that it isit easier to write when you have
a persona and it's not likedirectly attached to you or
coming out of you, like you havethis kind of filter almost
where you can say no, no, it'snot me, it's caroline, this is
martha talking.
Or does that make things easierin in in the writing process or
(14:43):
sharing um intimate things or,you know, close things to your
heart?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think it can.
I think most of the songs arereally from me, but I am like
martha is like there holding myhand, like it's less of like a
filter and more with this EP.
It was like she was like nextto me I don't know how to
describe it, not exactly thatshe was the main character,
(15:10):
which is also something I wantedto play with, like writing to
someone, like not a concept EP,like about a fake character, but
rather like a more meta take onit, where it's like I am really
carol, I'm really writing thesesongs, but I'm like making up
this person about it.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
um, interesting, but yeah, I don't know that's kind
of a double meaning too right,because martha's calling is like
what she's destined to do.
Yes, but it's also she'scalling you like.
Hey, like I saw your video andit's the red phone on the steps
and so I'm so glad you got thatdouble thing going on which I
(15:49):
really appreciate.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh, yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I also read that the prettiest girl of heaven has a
really cool story to it.
Yeah, and I know that it seemed.
Heaven has a really cool storyto it, yeah, and I know that it
seemed to be a really tough timefor you.
Could you, could you, sharesome of the pieces of that that
you feel comfortable sharing?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Oh, totally I.
It was November 2023.
And I had gone through thisbreakup.
Really cool.
It would have been likeseptember and october.
You know, breakups take acouple months to settle in, and
so that fall was really bad andI was working at a store called
madewell at the time, like insoho, new york.
It was just like a retail job.
(16:29):
I didn't have a like a good,steady job at the time.
I was super broke.
I missed my ex-boyfriend, likeit was it.
I was just life was could nothave been worse, and I was left
my shift.
I was so and I still am.
I will cry anywhere.
I don't care about crying inpublic.
I was, and at that time I wascrying a lot.
(16:50):
So I was like bawling, bawling,bawling my eyes out on the
street.
I was walking in Manhattan andthis guy, just just random,
whoever guy yelled at me you areone of the prettiest girls in
heaven.
And maybe he saw me crying andwas like I'm going to lift her
up, but also like don't yell atwomen.
But I loved it to be honest,Like I was like you know, it
(17:12):
kind of made me snap back toreality a bit.
It was nice to have someonejust yell at me.
Snap back to reality a bit.
It was nice to have someonejust yell at me.
And as he walked, as I walkedaway I don't put this in the
song, but he was like and youhave a great ass, but and I was
like, okay for that part, butthe prettiest girl of heaven
part.
I really latched on to that andthen wrote this song amazing
(17:35):
amazing, great song too.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Like it feels, inspired you know, like yeah,
like something happened and youhad to go and like get it out,
which was great, I love it.
Great story um thank you.
It's so cool how, how some songscome to be and you'll never
forget those experiences there.
Yeah, they're like thisattachment that you um.
So, looking back a little bit,I mean it's only been out since
(17:58):
march 7th, right you're?
You're the latest ep.
How's your, how's your visionof it, caroline?
How have you felt the reactionhas been towards it and is it?
Is it what you expected?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
yeah, I feel really good about it.
I mean, I, you know it's stilla grind.
I'm still a small artist, but Idefinitely feel like this is
the project where, like you weresaying before, like when people
you don't know react to yourstuff, like that's been
happening a lot more with thisproject, um, and I think it's uh
, yeah, I'm just proud of it.
(18:33):
I think it's obvious.
It's the most like top levelthing I've ever done and put out
, and I think people appreciatethat.
I think what I?
I'm still such like a live showperson so I am like think more
about like how are peoplereacting to my live shows?
Now, if this ep can get themout to my live stuff, that's
great, and I have a lot of goodlive stuff lined up for the
(18:54):
spring.
But, yeah, in terms of reaction, I feel like people are liking
it.
I put out a video alongside theep release for prettiest girl of
heaven, um, and I think I'mreally proud of that it's.
I think people like it.
Yeah, I mean, I, overall I'mhappy and I just, you're right,
it's only been out a coupleweeks, so I'm like still, you
(19:15):
know, trying to get that.
First couple of weeks, firstcouple of months, excitement
rolling yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Are you enjoying the hustle of being an independent
artist?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's yeah, I mean it's a hustle.
I love that.
I love it.
You know it's the best.
I put out this EP with a labelcalled Good Eye Records out of
Beacon, new York, and that'sbeen like a great help.
You know it's a smallindependent label but like being
with just having one otherperson behind the EP with me has
(19:49):
been really helpful.
So it's made the grind a lotless like intense but at the
same time, like you know, withmore success comes more grind
and with more grind comes moresuccess.
Just the endless cycle of likeyou work hard and then you
achieve what you want and thenyou have to kind of go off that.
So I think just seeing thestepping stones of you know,
(20:13):
small achievements here in NewYork scene and then, like as it
it, I hope it will progressoutside of the city for sure
it's intimidating but exciting.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So, yeah, I do like the grind well, made it all the
way up here to ice freezingcanada um seriously and it's
been a real pleasure.
You know, one thing that youmentioned before is the, the
flow of the songs.
I can tell that it was paid.
You know you paid a lot ofattention to that because it has
a really good flow.
Usually, like I have to listento the whole thing because it's
(20:45):
like no one feeds into the next,into the next, so I really
appreciate that oh good um, andlooking to your next, you know
you, you say you're still stillsongwriting.
Are you looking, do you want tokeep along the same vein or are
you going to try somethingdifferent?
Or a new producer?
Like, what's your thinking nowfor the next project?
(21:06):
Like, how might it be a littlebit different than what you just
put up?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, I think a lot of it, I think will be the songs
that I have so far that areready and done and that I've
been playing live.
I think they're leaning moretowards the indie rock, away
from the Martha's Calling track,which is a bit softer and more
gently produced, and thenleaning more into the Chinatown
(21:35):
style of production, even Lovingyou Right, which both are just
like kind of heavier I meanthey're not heavy, but just like
more classic guitar driven,like sharper tracks.
And so I think leaning into theRock is something I've wanted
to do for a long time, likesince finishing Martha's Calling
a year ago or over a year ago along time like since finishing
(21:57):
Martha's Calling a year ago orover a year ago.
And then, in terms of thesongwriting, I think it, I'm
excited to see what comes out ofme.
At first, like when I put thisout, I was like I have to write
nine songs right now, but I'mtrying to be a bit more patient
with myself.
So I don't know in terms of thecontent and the style of
songwriting.
(22:17):
We'll see what comes out of mein the next couple months.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Interesting Are you feeling inspired and creative
these days?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, in a way that I haven't experienced, it's not
like sparks flying in my brainall the time.
But, like I was saying before,I've been doing a lot more music
work outside of my own projectand I think that's really
helpful because it just keepsyour body and brain in the
practice.
Like I play guitar in a couplebands and just that alone I
(22:49):
don't know why it just allows meto like more calmly face my own
project, because it's not theonly thing I like have the
guitar outlet for anymore.
So, in terms of inspiration, myfeeling inspired like some days
yeah, I wrote a song the otherday and like a lot of times I'll
write a song and I, you know Ithink that I won't stick with it
(23:13):
, but then I ended up playing itlive at a show and I was like,
okay, so maybe I do like it, soit's just a lot less intense.
I always feel like that word,like inspired is, can be so
intense and I'm like I don'tknow if I'm inspired, but I'm
definitely writing.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Cool, yeah, well, you're, you're, you're, you're
growing your muscle, yourcreative, creativity, muscle,
right Like it.
It definitely needs, um, youknow, coaxing sometimes and it
just doesn't happen just to boomout of the blue.
It's the experiences you gainand where you put yourself, and
I'm excited for you, I'm excitedto hear, um, what's coming down
(23:48):
the road for you.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So just to close off, Carolyn, so you said you're
going to be doing some shows aswell over the spring, summertime
I'm um, playing at babies allright here in new york with an
artist called bria salmena whojust put out her solo debut on
sub pop.
Um, yeah, she's awesome.
I've been a fan of her for likefour years.
Um, I saw her open for, uh,wolf alice at bowery ballroom
(24:13):
here in new y York like fouryears ago, and I've stuck a fan
and so it's a great moment tohave an artist you love, and so
I'll open for a venue calledBabies Alright here in Brooklyn
at the end of April.
And then I'm doing the DIY tourwith a band who's a good friend
called Babe Lewis out ofVirginia, and we're just going
(24:34):
to run up and down the EastCoast in the U S and play some
basements and, yeah, that's atthe beginning of May, so stay
tuned for that If you're in theStates.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Cool, cool.
Well, listeners out there,please go and check out Carolyn.
She's an amazing songwriter.
It's got some great moxie to tothese songs.
They're not.
They do tug at the heart, heart.
But they also give some drivinglike maybe you'll dance, who
knows?
And get a record, go see a show, buy a t-shirt um support these
(25:07):
independent artists.
They need all the help they canget to keep creating these
amazing um, eps, lps, songs, etc.
Nice, all the best, caroline.
This has been really fun.
Thanks for joining me today onthis amazing EPs, lps, songs, et
cetera.
Nice, all the best, caroline.
This has been really fun.
Thanks for joining me today onthis sleepy Sunday.
This has been really funtalking with you and I wish you
all the best in in in the nextyear.
(25:27):
What happens if you ever wantto hop back on and talk about
something else?
Let's be in touch.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Totally.
Thanks so much, really enjoyedit.
Great.
Oh, baby Martha's.
She's asking where have yougone?
(25:58):
Where have you gone?
She's begging me to explain whyyou left.
I say now, martha, you're upset, you're upset, you're upset,
(26:22):
you're upset Martha's calling.
Martha's calling, Martha'scalling.
(26:44):
Oh, the wind meets thehurricane.
I push the tears from your eyesand know that.
Are you waiting on an answer tosave you?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
For the light upon the water to tell you who's the
far and frightening voice thatcompels you.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Oh, Martha is a vision and you're a California
liar who can't make a decision.
No, Martha's waiting patiently.
There's a hand for you to hold.
It's a call on the line Ringingsoftly.
(27:36):
It's a call on the line ringingsoftly.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Martha's call.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Martha's calling, martha's calling, martha's
calling, martha's calling iscalling.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.