May 12, 2025 • 38 mins
What happens when music transforms from an obligation to a lifeline? UK singer-songwriter Sophie Jamieson takes us on her remarkable journey from classical training to authentic self-expression in this deeply moving conversation.
Growing up with piano lessons and orchestral bassoon playing, Sophie never truly connected with music until she discovered songwriting in university. During a period of mental health struggles, writing her own songs became what she calls "the kindest thing I could do for myself" – a radical act of self-compassion that changed everything.
Sophie shares the fascinating evolution of her creative process, revealing how she's become increasingly "lyric forward" over time. She's particularly drawn to the power of a song's first line, which often emerges quickly and without overthinking, guiding the rest of the composition naturally. "I find it really interesting how within a sentence there's a word that wants to be long, a couple of short words that are rhythmic, and somehow you can just hear chord changes within that," she explains.
The conversation explores the vulnerability inherent in sharing deeply personal work with the world. Rather than feeling exposed, Sophie finds that true songs tap into something universal: "When you've written something that feels like you want to share it, it's because you realize you've tapped into something that's a bit bigger than you." This perspective transforms vulnerability from a risk to a strength.
Sophie also reflects on the magical connection that happens during live performances – "the most alive kind of space to be in" – where songs take on their own life beyond both performer and audience. As she looks ahead to a year of shows across the UK and Europe while developing new material, her focus remains on putting creativity first and worrying less about industry expectations.
Listen now to this enlightening conversation about finding your authentic voice, the healing power of creativity, and the courage to share your truth with the world. If you've ever struggled with self-expression or wondered how artists transform personal pain into universal connection, this episode offers both inspiration and practical insights from an artist at the height of her powers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sophie Jamieson (00:01):
Welcome, little world.
Don't think too much, just come.
There's room for you some moremore.
(00:24):
My arms goes this way.
You can't miss me well people.
colleyc (00:39):
Here we are another episode.
If you're, if it be your littlepodcast, it's a mouthful
sometimes.
Um, we are into season five.
I love reaching over to, uh,the uk.
I mean, they have such amazingartists and, in particular, I
find their singer-songwritersoutstanding.
And today I'm sparing no, uh,I'm sparing nothing.
(01:01):
I'm bringing sophie james,who's just put out an
outstanding record I still wantto share, which has a lot of
meaning to that little title andwe'll get into a little bit of
that.
But this record came outJanuary 17th 2025, so it's been
out in the air for a while.
(01:22):
So, sophie, thanks so much fortaking some time and hopping on
here with me.
Sophie Jamieson (01:27):
It's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
colleyc (01:30):
Yeah, this has been really fun to kind of get into.
Whenever I prepare for theseepisodes I really I listen to,
but I have this.
Coming back to your records,particularly choosing and your
latest, I still want to shareand kind of listening to the
differences, because they reallyare their own little children,
(01:53):
you know.
You know how children are alllike.
We love them equally, butthey're different.
Well, I was getting that senseout of listening to two of them.
But before we get into all that, tell me a little bit about how
it all started for you.
How did, how did music comeinto your life?
Um, you know your earliest kindof or or important
(02:15):
recollections of when, whenmusic kind of started shifting a
little bit of of your, yourtrajectory of where you might go
in life?
Sophie Jamieson (02:24):
um, well, I, I was forced to play music from a
young age.
Um and I've said forced likeit's a horrible word, but you
know I was I was planted infront of a piano and then a
recorder and uh, and then put insome orchestras with a bassoon,
(02:47):
of all things, as a teenagerand um, I was brought up on, you
know I was.
I was brought up on um withsome diet of classical music
from my mum's side and come froma family of of who felt that
(03:09):
music was an important part ofan education.
I guess remember particularlyconnecting on a on a very deep
level with what I was doing then, and I think there was a
(03:33):
strange kind of change when Iwent to university and like left
um, home, home, um, when I, Ijust started to discover music
for myself in in terms ofsongwriting and started to
discover, um, the sort of newfolk revival scene that was
(03:57):
happening in the uk, um and inthe us.
That um, uh, like kind ofswitched, flicked a switch in my
brain and um, to be reallyhonest, I, uh, I was, I.
I struggled with some mentalhealth stuff as a teenager, as
(04:17):
like a lot, a lot of teenagersdo, and um, and I spent, um, you
know, the last few years ofschool like struggling with like
a lot of obsessive, compulsivebehavior and struggling with,
(04:39):
like you know, self selfpunishment of various kinds, and
once I started to find that Icould write songs, um, it was
just the most, it was just thekindest thing I could actually
do for myself was um was writemy own music.
(05:02):
That was like completely faraway from everything that I'd
been taught, all the ways I'dbeen taught to play music and um
, and that's when, and I thinkthat's when um, you know, this
sort of began.
Uh was like very much a sourceof of solace and gentleness for
myself, which I've alwaysstruggled to maintain.
(05:23):
Um, that, but it's, it's, it'sbeen that usually.
colleyc (05:27):
That is that relationship with um, with the
yeah, kind part of myself, yeah,yeah, it's interesting and and
when you were growing up, likemusic was always kind of seen as
something you had to do, ratherthan what you then you wanting
to do it was it.
Is that an accurate statement?
Sophie Jamieson (05:48):
I mean, I I don't really remember, to be
honest, it was just part of mychildhood.
Um, I, I went to a school thatwas, like, very well provided
with music program and I, uh,and I played in a lot of chamber
groups of various kinds and Iwas used to being around a lot
(06:13):
of orchestral music and Ienjoyed that.
I loved being part of that.
But it was kind of habitual.
You know it was different.
It comes with a lot of um.
You know my mum could haveopinions about the music that we
(06:35):
were playing, um, or the waythat I played my instruments and
uh, but then I don't know when.
When you start building yourown project, you have to let go
of everything you've learned, ina way, all of that particular
(06:57):
kind of discipline, and create anew kind of discipline um, and
it's.
colleyc (07:07):
Do you remember, sophie , some of those, um, like what
you had to do, or some of thethings that you had to practice,
more to create that separation,that to reclaim the ownership
of your music or or yourmusicality um, to be honest, I
don't I, I just listened toloads of folk music.
That was kind of your door thatopened to the possibility of I
(07:29):
will do this or I would like todo this, on.
You know, as, as a person.
Sophie Jamieson (07:39):
I didn't think very hard about deciding to do
it.
I just found myself doing itbecause it became necessary
myself doing it because itbecame necessary.
Um and um, I just yeah, I justlistened a lot.
For me, that's always been thegreatest educator has just been
listening and soaking it in,going to gigs and um and yeah
(08:03):
and like, yeah, learning otherpeople's songs as well.
I've not been very good atdoing that, actually for most of
my adult life.
I've just started to try andmake that a practice.
But, yeah, and just like, payingattention to the power of words
(08:24):
as well, and I think it'simportant, I'm constantly
learning the sheer importance oflike allowing the most pure and
childish, naive voice to comethrough during songwriting.
I've actually been thinkingabout it a lot lately.
(08:46):
Um, and I think that's kind ofreally goes against a lot of
what you might be forced to doin high school.
When you're um, you know, doinggrades on the piano or whatever
, you're, uh, very much likefollowing somebody else's
trajectory.
But when you're writing songs,you, you, I don't know.
(09:10):
I think the the best thing youcan do is, um, like, listen
really really closely to thequietest, most vulnerable voice.
colleyc (09:22):
That's generally been forced really really deep down
yeah do you remember the firstsong that you, that you wrote,
where you started to feel likeyou were on to something that
you know, in the process offinding your voice and finding
(09:43):
the style that you wanted to?
You know, look through, as youknow, as, as as your creative
lens.
How did, how did that start toform?
Like what were your, your, yourmoments or your songs that
started to reveal themselves toyou that?
This is something that I wouldlike to share with others.
Sophie Jamieson (10:02):
This is something that I would like to
share with others.
It's a good question.
To be honest, I don't rememberever thinking about it very hard
and that was a theme in my inmy early years of getting out
publicly and and playing gigsand releasing music, cause I,
you know, I started doing thatwhen I was 21.
(10:25):
Yeah and um or 22 and um didthat for a few years before
having a little a bit of abreakdown and having to stop.
But during those first fewyears I didn't um, I just didn't
think very far ahead and I justlet happen what was happening
(10:52):
without really noticing what Iactually wanted.
I think that's something thatyoung people do and have to do,
um, but in terms of, yeah, likeindividual songs and I, I don't
think I really thought about mystyle very much, but I, I
(11:16):
remember noticing that my stylewas informed by my limitations,
um, and I was never um veryadept at the guitar, um, and I
just kind of I wrote songswithin the, the limited ability
that I had, and and um, and Iactually found that very
(11:38):
creatively stimulating um, but I, you know, I think I had, I had
a, I had sort of a kind ofatmosphere that I was drawn to
and I think I tried to emulatethat and I was kind of
fascinated with a certainbalance or tension between
(11:59):
intimacy and detachment, um uh,which I, which I'm less
attracted to now, but there area few songs from very early on
that I think kind of becamehallmarks of the style that um
(12:24):
was sort of playing it.
I mean, there's a song calleddiner which I is um was probably
that the one that um that gotnoticed early on.
I've always found itfascinating because I didn't I
don't think I tried to doanything in particular with that
(12:44):
, but I think it's a strangelittle song.
I don't know, I don't reallyremember how it came to be.
colleyc (12:58):
Was that on your first release 2013, where that was
your first release that you everput out?
Sophie Jamieson (13:09):
Yes.
colleyc (13:09):
And those were some of the first songs that you had
penned as well.
Sophie Jamieson (13:14):
I mean I wrote songs from the age of 11, 10 or
11.
Like you know, I probably wrotedozens of awful, awful songs,
and then there was like one ortwo that were a little better
when I was in my later years atschool.
But when I went to university Iwas writing some of these songs
(13:36):
, okay.
colleyc (13:38):
And when you first started, what was your process
for songwriting like, and has itevolved over time?
Sophie Jamieson (13:46):
I think to be honest, I I don't particularly
remember how I wrote like 12 or13 years ago, I think maybe I I
(14:13):
was I would often start with aguitar part.
Nowadays, um, um, I'm reallyvery lyric forward.
Um, I think words have justbecome more and more powerful to
me.
I'm so much more aware of whatthey can do and I'm more and
(14:36):
more fascinated by by them andwhat you can do with um, um, oh,
I don't know, it's just yeah,maybe as I've got older and I've
, I've accumulated, you know,reading and listening and just
um, I'm I'm ever fascinated bythe power of the first line of a
song, and that's nowadays.
(14:57):
I, I mostly probably start withone line that feels that comes
quickly and that feels true andun overthought and that usually
leads the rest of the song.
(15:18):
But I think that's become habit.
To be honest, I think I used todo a bit more of sometimes
guitar first, sometimes words,but um, um, yeah, I find that
the most stimulating thing,because the the guitar chords
(15:39):
usually fit around um, thephrasing, the lyrical phrasing,
and I find that reallyinteresting as well, how, I
don't know, you can kind of comeup with a sentence and within
that sentence there's, you know,a word that wants to be long,
there's a word that is, there'sa couple of short words that are
rhythmic, and somehow you canjust hear chord change within
(16:02):
that.
I love that.
I love songs that feelincredibly natural.
colleyc (16:08):
It's so well described, Sophie, that's really I like
how you put words to that Veryinteresting.
And we were talking too, beforewe hopped on, about just your
two latest releases in 2022 andthen 2025.
And as you were talking, I toldyou I was obsessively listening
(16:31):
to these two records and Ireally started to notice, too,
in the latest, how much moreroom you've given the lyrics to
to grow within um.
I don't know if it was, but youyou mentioned that, so it
struck me like yes, like that's.
I find the musicality in thelatest release allows your words
(16:51):
to feel them more to, toconnect with them, because
you're giving them so much roomto to grow within Um.
Do you notice, like what?
What are your biggest noticesfrom choosing to your latest in
2025 that just came out?
I still want to share.
Did you change how you builtthose two records differently,
(17:14):
or are they pretty much builtsimilarly?
Sophie Jamieson (17:19):
That's a good question.
Well, they were made with tworeally different people.
Question well, they were madewith two really different people
.
Um, and I think that generallyis just has an enormous impact
in in so many ways on on howthings are done.
Um and I, I was aware I feltlike going into the studio with
(17:41):
this latest record I felt likethis was my best songwriting and
that the songs were like theywere strong and I wanted to um,
really um, l, elevate them orlike just give them.
I just I wanted um as as as, asbest as possible.
(18:06):
But then once I went into thestudio you know the way I worked
with Guy, my producer, wedidn't really have to talk that
much about those kind of choices.
It just kind of felt verynatural.
And I feel like between the two, I feel like choosing is maybe
a bit more of a sort of wateryrecord where it kind of goes
(18:32):
from blurry to distinct, fromblurry to distinct a bit through
it.
Um, and and and that was likenot necessarily intentional, but
I think like a byproduct of thenature of the record and what
it was about.
And this one feels to me like akind of like I don't know, I
(19:02):
kind of see it a bit like aribbon or like, oh, like a wave,
that kind of like does the bigmovements and everything kind of
moves with it.
Um, I think there's a bit moreof things feeling tied together
and unified and that they'rebeing a bit more focused, um,
(19:24):
where I wanted the focus to be,um, but I don't know.
I think that also what was, uh,I think happened because I
think the songs were stronger,um, and the songs were able to
lead a bit more, um, but youknow, I didn't think about it
(19:47):
too much, right.
colleyc (19:49):
But in retrospect now.
So you've had, like, thisrecord out in the world for you
know, a couple months now, a fewmonths almost.
How do you feel that, thereaction that you're getting for
it?
How are you receiving that?
Are you like, what's it likefor an artist when you release a
record and you kind of have allthis anticipation of the date
(20:13):
of the release and then like,what do you, what do you look
for after a record's beenreleased to have a sense that
that it accomplished what youwanted to?
Sophie Jamieson (20:29):
to have a sense that that it accomplished what
you wanted to.
Um, I think I've learned to, uh, not look for anything.
Um, I've generally found havingnow done this twice and I
learned a lesson from the firsttime.
But, um, you're always going tobe surprised by what people
hear and how they interpret, and, um, and that you know, I think
(20:53):
it's a cliche.
You know, everyone says onrelease day you know, this
record is yours, now it's notmine anymore, and every time I
read that I'm like yeah, oh, ohmy.
God, it's normal, but it reallyis.
It's a cliche for a reason.
You really do have to.
(21:14):
You do actually have to let go.
I have had to detach myself fromthe record somewhat since it
came out, because I'm justexhausted by it I've heard that
many times like just because ofthe intimacy that you have with
(21:35):
that, before it's released, likeyou know every second of every
millisecond of what that soundedand and the lyrics and the, I'm
sure it's kind of like yeah,let's shelve it, it's good, I
don't need to hear it anymore.
Like I think.
I think because, because it'sthis and the last record are
(21:57):
both, in in their own slightlydifferent ways, very vulnerable
and very revealing um of of ofme and I I I haven't done a lot
to hide much generally and, um,and that can be very jarring
(22:21):
when something is released,because to some extent, you know
well, I'm not, I'm not puttingmusic out in order to be
understood.
I write the songs so that I canunderstand myself and then when
it comes out like, well, I'veactually I happen to have put
(22:44):
forward this most, um, like the,the best, they've done the best
job I possibly could have, umof painting this important
picture to me, yet still, um, alot of people are just not gonna
see it, see it for what I seeit as.
(23:04):
And, um, my, my first record.
I found that really um, reallydifficult um, because I thought
I'd actually been very, uh,careful as to what I said and
what I didn't say and still Ifelt like a lot was still
(23:25):
assumed or gaps were filled inthat I didn't realize someone
would think they had the rightto fill in with stuff that
really didn't feel like it satright.
So you know this one, I wasaware that that was a, that was
a possibility, but overall I, Iit's felt, it's actually felt
(23:46):
really much better than Ithought it would.
That's good.
Yeah, I knew a little bit morewhat to expect and I'm a bit
tougher, you know.
colleyc (23:58):
I was going to ask you that too.
The vulnerability it's such alike you're laying things out
there for anybody to take,interpret, put their thoughts
into it.
How did you first get thatalmost confidence to be like I
(24:21):
will put this out here andanybody can have access to it?
These are super revealing andpersonal thoughts that I have
here.
You go, like I always, I'malways curious about what it is
in a musician that that that can, that can make that jump over
to, of of penning them, writingthem, building them, feeling
(24:44):
them and then letting it free,almost like you know a bird
leaving its nest writing them,building them, feeling them and
then letting it free, almostlike you know a bird leaving its
nest.
You know, once it's big enoughto fly, off it goes.
How did you get that confidenceto fly as a musician with the
music that you put out?
that is you, you know, I meanit's you in lyrical play and in
(25:07):
musicality, um, but you knowsome pretty interesting,
interesting and tough topicsthat you, that you navigate um,
I think what just popped into myhead was that, yeah, you say
that it's me, but I think whenit feels good to put out, it
doesn't actually feel likenecessarily like me.
(25:28):
It feels like like that's.
Those are, when you've writtensomething that feels like you
want to share it, it's becauseyou, you realize you've tapped
into something that's a bitbigger than you and um, um, yeah
(25:55):
, I, I like some kind ofuniversal feeling, that that you
felt you captured and that mostpeople will feel these things.
Sophie Jamieson (26:05):
You know, people feel these things.
It's not just me that feelsthem like yeah like kind of
putting a mirror up forsometimes for people to kind of
look at themselves and reflectupon who they are as well
exactly, and maybe even in aslightly more woo-woo kind of
way I I think, um, there's,there's like a mysterious sort
(26:29):
of realm that you enter intowhen you perform a song live.
That feels very true and it'slike the most alive kind of
space to be in.
When you're deliveringsomething.
That feels like it's not justyours and it's not just the
(26:50):
audiences, but it like I don'tknow like belongs in the world
somewhere that has its own spaceand it's just, it's, um, it's,
it's like the best, it's myfavorite thing to do and it's,
it's a thing that makes me feelmost, um, um, part of this world
and connected in general, um,uh, and that's why that's why I
(27:16):
write like that's what I'mseeking out, apart from just
also like trying to figuremyself out.
Figuring myself out is it wasalso me just figuring out um,
this, this, this world and itsmystery and tapping into it as
much as possible.
And you know, I feel so luckythat I have a way of doing that
(27:37):
and and even most of the time, Ifeel like I don't.
I'm like I did that.
How do I do that?
Again, I can't remember.
It feels so impossible today,but in that sense, you know the
vulnerability.
I don't.
I don't really bat an eyelidabout it anymore and it's a
question that has come up umduring this album release a few
(28:02):
times and every time I I answeryou know how?
How are you okay with being sovulnerable in your uh songs?
I I do wonder if I'm um, if,like, maybe I've, is it a bit
weird that I that I'm so finewith it?
but I think what you mentionedabout the the live performing
(28:26):
yeah, it says it all like whenyou're performing these songs.
You see how it's affectingpeople.
I imagine like you can feelthat in the crowd.
No, well, I can, I, yes.
I mean, crowds are weird,sometimes you can't tell, okay,
but some but.
But it doesn't matter a lot ofthe time, it just doesn't matter
(28:46):
as long as you're feeling it.
Is that hard for you to getinto when you're performing live
.
Is it hard to get into that flowor does it come pre?
You said your first line arereally important, so I imagine
you feel it pretty quickly.
(29:06):
It really depends.
So I imagine you feel it prettyquickly it really depends, it
depends.
I'm a sensitive person, verysensitive to environment, and
there are so many factors thatcan affect how easy it is to
sink into a performance andoften it takes a couple of songs
(29:27):
, sometimes if the if everythingis just right, um, it can
happen straight away.
Or you know, there are so manygigs where like, well, I think I
played two songs out of six.
Well, but but then you get goodfeedback afterwards all the
same, you know we're always ourharshest critics, right, like
(29:50):
I'm.
colleyc (29:50):
I'm sure people come up after and, like you, change,
you, transform me, or you, youknow like you've been, you know
that was meant.
Everything to me, um, that's,that's pretty cool.
Well, sophie, to kind of bringthings to a close again, just I
thank you again.
I think your insights and yourvulnerability, we'll say, is
(30:13):
really I think artists out therelistening to this will be able
to identify and be like I'm notthe only one.
Oftentimes, when we're in ourbrain, we think it's you know,
I'm the only one that feels this.
In reality we don't, and Ithink that your songs put that
forth, that we all struggle andit's okay, we will figure it out
(30:39):
and we will find the light atthe end of the tunnel, and I
think a lot of your music bringsthe vulnerability, the
difficulty, but also there'sthere's.
There's a light, and when a lotof small lights come together,
it gets pretty bright out there.
Sophie Jamieson (30:52):
So oh, that's beautiful, Chris.
colleyc (30:57):
I thank you.
I was inspired by your Twinkielights.
Sophie Jamieson (31:00):
Oh yeah, that can't stand bright light.
It's just very light from here.
No.
colleyc (31:05):
I love it.
I love it.
So, to just kind of wrap thingsup, so if you were, what's 2025
?
Hold for you with your musicthat you can, that you can share
with us, are you going to bedoing some, some shows and other
such things, and are youcontinually writing for your
next record?
Are you taking a break?
(31:25):
What?
What can you reveal to us thatis public?
Sophie Jamieson (31:29):
Well, I'm playing some shows.
I'm sort of playing littlechunks of shows throughout the
year in the UK and Europe andI'm working on my writing
practice.
I'm working on my writingpractice and I'm writing, but
I'm also I'm really trying toopen up my writing a bit and
(32:01):
allow myself to do things insome new ways.
So that's like a big thing forme this year and I'm just trying
to um thing for me this yearand I'm just, I'm just trying to
um, I'm just trying to, like,put creativity first this year
and try to worry less about, um,the industry and how things
look from the outside and um,yeah, and somewhere, somewhere
(32:26):
this year, I'll be recordingsomething, I hope.
And, yeah, it's a year ofcreative stuff and cooking, I
think what have you been cookingthese days?
just as a quick closure, whatare some of the fun things you
like to cook?
colleyc (32:43):
oh well, I mean in terms of like songs, oh okay.
I'm a big cook too, so I waslike, oh cooking.
Sophie Jamieson (32:49):
But I'm gonna go and cook some, uh some noodle
soup in a minute, so nice well,so this has been a really
really great conversation.
I really appreciate it um thanksfor taking some time.
Yeah, it was really cool andthank you for putting these
records out.
Um.
I hope that you don't stop umbecause like you said at the
(33:10):
start of this like I think it ismuch for the listener, it is
for you, um, because it is likewe can help figure stuff out on
ourselves through the work thatyou've done for us.
So thank, thank you, thank youfor that.
Thank you so much.
This has been a really lovelychat.
I really appreciate it.
Cool.
Well, you have a good evening.
(33:32):
You too.
I broke it into half there inmy hand.
(34:03):
The camera Couldn't get thefocus To let it head to go.
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(34:28):
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(35:55):
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.
With urges, you touch and losethe land.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, widening theshort Like curtains rising,
letting go of all.
You've got to find it.
You levitate an age above theblur, drawing out the mark of a
(36:36):
life that's still in the view.
No, I'm not here to look at you.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, Ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
(37:34):
ooh, Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,Ooh, ooh you.
Welcome, little world.
Don't think too much, just come.
There's room for you some moremore.
(00:24):
My arms goes this way.
You can't miss me well people.
colleyc (00:39):
Here we are another episode.
If you're, if it be your littlepodcast, it's a mouthful
sometimes.
Um, we are into season five.
I love reaching over to, uh,the uk.
I mean, they have such amazingartists and, in particular, I
find their singer-songwritersoutstanding.
And today I'm sparing no, uh,I'm sparing nothing.
(01:01):
I'm bringing sophie james,who's just put out an
outstanding record I still wantto share, which has a lot of
meaning to that little title andwe'll get into a little bit of
that.
But this record came outJanuary 17th 2025, so it's been
out in the air for a while.
(01:22):
So, sophie, thanks so much fortaking some time and hopping on
here with me.
Sophie Jamieson (01:27):
It's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
colleyc (01:30):
Yeah, this has been really fun to kind of get into.
Whenever I prepare for theseepisodes I really I listen to,
but I have this.
Coming back to your records,particularly choosing and your
latest, I still want to shareand kind of listening to the
differences, because they reallyare their own little children,
(01:53):
you know.
You know how children are alllike.
We love them equally, butthey're different.
Well, I was getting that senseout of listening to two of them.
But before we get into all that, tell me a little bit about how
it all started for you.
How did, how did music comeinto your life?
Um, you know your earliest kindof or or important
(02:15):
recollections of when, whenmusic kind of started shifting a
little bit of of your, yourtrajectory of where you might go
in life?
Sophie Jamieson (02:24):
um, well, I, I was forced to play music from a
young age.
Um and I've said forced likeit's a horrible word, but you
know I was I was planted infront of a piano and then a
recorder and uh, and then put insome orchestras with a bassoon,
(02:47):
of all things, as a teenagerand um, I was brought up on, you
know I was.
I was brought up on um withsome diet of classical music
from my mum's side and come froma family of of who felt that
(03:09):
music was an important part ofan education.
I guess remember particularlyconnecting on a on a very deep
level with what I was doing then, and I think there was a
(03:33):
strange kind of change when Iwent to university and like left
um, home, home, um, when I, Ijust started to discover music
for myself in in terms ofsongwriting and started to
discover, um, the sort of newfolk revival scene that was
(03:57):
happening in the uk, um and inthe us.
That um, uh, like kind ofswitched, flicked a switch in my
brain and um, to be reallyhonest, I, uh, I was, I.
I struggled with some mentalhealth stuff as a teenager, as
(04:17):
like a lot, a lot of teenagersdo, and um, and I spent, um, you
know, the last few years ofschool like struggling with like
a lot of obsessive, compulsivebehavior and struggling with,
(04:39):
like you know, self selfpunishment of various kinds, and
once I started to find that Icould write songs, um, it was
just the most, it was just thekindest thing I could actually
do for myself was um was writemy own music.
(05:02):
That was like completely faraway from everything that I'd
been taught, all the ways I'dbeen taught to play music and um
, and that's when, and I thinkthat's when um, you know, this
sort of began.
Uh was like very much a sourceof of solace and gentleness for
myself, which I've alwaysstruggled to maintain.
(05:23):
Um, that, but it's, it's, it'sbeen that usually.
colleyc (05:27):
That is that relationship with um, with the
yeah, kind part of myself, yeah,yeah, it's interesting and and
when you were growing up, likemusic was always kind of seen as
something you had to do, ratherthan what you then you wanting
to do it was it.
Is that an accurate statement?
Sophie Jamieson (05:48):
I mean, I I don't really remember, to be
honest, it was just part of mychildhood.
Um, I, I went to a school thatwas, like, very well provided
with music program and I, uh,and I played in a lot of chamber
groups of various kinds and Iwas used to being around a lot
(06:13):
of orchestral music and Ienjoyed that.
I loved being part of that.
But it was kind of habitual.
You know it was different.
It comes with a lot of um.
You know my mum could haveopinions about the music that we
(06:35):
were playing, um, or the waythat I played my instruments and
uh, but then I don't know when.
When you start building yourown project, you have to let go
of everything you've learned, ina way, all of that particular
(06:57):
kind of discipline, and create anew kind of discipline um, and
it's.
colleyc (07:07):
Do you remember, sophie , some of those, um, like what
you had to do, or some of thethings that you had to practice,
more to create that separation,that to reclaim the ownership
of your music or or yourmusicality um, to be honest, I
don't I, I just listened toloads of folk music.
That was kind of your door thatopened to the possibility of I
(07:29):
will do this or I would like todo this, on.
You know, as, as a person.
Sophie Jamieson (07:39):
I didn't think very hard about deciding to do
it.
I just found myself doing itbecause it became necessary
myself doing it because itbecame necessary.
Um and um, I just yeah, I justlistened a lot.
For me, that's always been thegreatest educator has just been
listening and soaking it in,going to gigs and um and yeah
(08:03):
and like, yeah, learning otherpeople's songs as well.
I've not been very good atdoing that, actually for most of
my adult life.
I've just started to try andmake that a practice.
But, yeah, and just like, payingattention to the power of words
(08:24):
as well, and I think it'simportant, I'm constantly
learning the sheer importance oflike allowing the most pure and
childish, naive voice to comethrough during songwriting.
I've actually been thinkingabout it a lot lately.
(08:46):
Um, and I think that's kind ofreally goes against a lot of
what you might be forced to doin high school.
When you're um, you know, doinggrades on the piano or whatever
, you're, uh, very much likefollowing somebody else's
trajectory.
But when you're writing songs,you, you, I don't know.
(09:10):
I think the the best thing youcan do is, um, like, listen
really really closely to thequietest, most vulnerable voice.
colleyc (09:22):
That's generally been forced really really deep down
yeah do you remember the firstsong that you, that you wrote,
where you started to feel likeyou were on to something that
you know, in the process offinding your voice and finding
(09:43):
the style that you wanted to?
You know, look through, as youknow, as, as as your creative
lens.
How did, how did that start toform?
Like what were your, your, yourmoments or your songs that
started to reveal themselves toyou that?
This is something that I wouldlike to share with others.
Sophie Jamieson (10:02):
This is something that I would like to
share with others.
It's a good question.
To be honest, I don't rememberever thinking about it very hard
and that was a theme in my inmy early years of getting out
publicly and and playing gigsand releasing music, cause I,
you know, I started doing thatwhen I was 21.
(10:25):
Yeah and um or 22 and um didthat for a few years before
having a little a bit of abreakdown and having to stop.
But during those first fewyears I didn't um, I just didn't
think very far ahead and I justlet happen what was happening
(10:52):
without really noticing what Iactually wanted.
I think that's something thatyoung people do and have to do,
um, but in terms of, yeah, likeindividual songs and I, I don't
think I really thought about mystyle very much, but I, I
(11:16):
remember noticing that my stylewas informed by my limitations,
um, and I was never um veryadept at the guitar, um, and I
just kind of I wrote songswithin the, the limited ability
that I had, and and um, and Iactually found that very
(11:38):
creatively stimulating um, but I, you know, I think I had, I had
a, I had sort of a kind ofatmosphere that I was drawn to
and I think I tried to emulatethat and I was kind of
fascinated with a certainbalance or tension between
(11:59):
intimacy and detachment, um uh,which I, which I'm less
attracted to now, but there area few songs from very early on
that I think kind of becamehallmarks of the style that um
(12:24):
was sort of playing it.
I mean, there's a song calleddiner which I is um was probably
that the one that um that gotnoticed early on.
I've always found itfascinating because I didn't I
don't think I tried to doanything in particular with that
(12:44):
, but I think it's a strangelittle song.
I don't know, I don't reallyremember how it came to be.
colleyc (12:58):
Was that on your first release 2013, where that was
your first release that you everput out?
Sophie Jamieson (13:09):
Yes.
colleyc (13:09):
And those were some of the first songs that you had
penned as well.
Sophie Jamieson (13:14):
I mean I wrote songs from the age of 11, 10 or
11.
Like you know, I probably wrotedozens of awful, awful songs,
and then there was like one ortwo that were a little better
when I was in my later years atschool.
But when I went to university Iwas writing some of these songs
(13:36):
, okay.
colleyc (13:38):
And when you first started, what was your process
for songwriting like, and has itevolved over time?
Sophie Jamieson (13:46):
I think to be honest, I I don't particularly
remember how I wrote like 12 or13 years ago, I think maybe I I
(14:13):
was I would often start with aguitar part.
Nowadays, um, um, I'm reallyvery lyric forward.
Um, I think words have justbecome more and more powerful to
me.
I'm so much more aware of whatthey can do and I'm more and
(14:36):
more fascinated by by them andwhat you can do with um, um, oh,
I don't know, it's just yeah,maybe as I've got older and I've
, I've accumulated, you know,reading and listening and just
um, I'm I'm ever fascinated bythe power of the first line of a
song, and that's nowadays.
(14:57):
I, I mostly probably start withone line that feels that comes
quickly and that feels true andun overthought and that usually
leads the rest of the song.
(15:18):
But I think that's become habit.
To be honest, I think I used todo a bit more of sometimes
guitar first, sometimes words,but um, um, yeah, I find that
the most stimulating thing,because the the guitar chords
(15:39):
usually fit around um, thephrasing, the lyrical phrasing,
and I find that reallyinteresting as well, how, I
don't know, you can kind of comeup with a sentence and within
that sentence there's, you know,a word that wants to be long,
there's a word that is, there'sa couple of short words that are
rhythmic, and somehow you canjust hear chord change within
(16:02):
that.
I love that.
I love songs that feelincredibly natural.
colleyc (16:08):
It's so well described, Sophie, that's really I like
how you put words to that Veryinteresting.
And we were talking too, beforewe hopped on, about just your
two latest releases in 2022 andthen 2025.
And as you were talking, I toldyou I was obsessively listening
(16:31):
to these two records and Ireally started to notice, too,
in the latest, how much moreroom you've given the lyrics to
to grow within um.
I don't know if it was, but youyou mentioned that, so it
struck me like yes, like that's.
I find the musicality in thelatest release allows your words
(16:51):
to feel them more to, toconnect with them, because
you're giving them so much roomto to grow within Um.
Do you notice, like what?
What are your biggest noticesfrom choosing to your latest in
2025 that just came out?
I still want to share.
Did you change how you builtthose two records differently,
(17:14):
or are they pretty much builtsimilarly?
Sophie Jamieson (17:19):
That's a good question.
Well, they were made with tworeally different people.
Question well, they were madewith two really different people
.
Um, and I think that generallyis just has an enormous impact
in in so many ways on on howthings are done.
Um and I, I was aware I feltlike going into the studio with
(17:41):
this latest record I felt likethis was my best songwriting and
that the songs were like theywere strong and I wanted to um,
really um, l, elevate them orlike just give them.
I just I wanted um as as as, asbest as possible.
(18:06):
But then once I went into thestudio you know the way I worked
with Guy, my producer, wedidn't really have to talk that
much about those kind of choices.
It just kind of felt verynatural.
And I feel like between the two, I feel like choosing is maybe
a bit more of a sort of wateryrecord where it kind of goes
(18:32):
from blurry to distinct, fromblurry to distinct a bit through
it.
Um, and and and that was likenot necessarily intentional, but
I think like a byproduct of thenature of the record and what
it was about.
And this one feels to me like akind of like I don't know, I
(19:02):
kind of see it a bit like aribbon or like, oh, like a wave,
that kind of like does the bigmovements and everything kind of
moves with it.
Um, I think there's a bit moreof things feeling tied together
and unified and that they'rebeing a bit more focused, um,
(19:24):
where I wanted the focus to be,um, but I don't know.
I think that also what was, uh,I think happened because I
think the songs were stronger,um, and the songs were able to
lead a bit more, um, but youknow, I didn't think about it
(19:47):
too much, right.
colleyc (19:49):
But in retrospect now.
So you've had, like, thisrecord out in the world for you
know, a couple months now, a fewmonths almost.
How do you feel that, thereaction that you're getting for
it?
How are you receiving that?
Are you like, what's it likefor an artist when you release a
record and you kind of have allthis anticipation of the date
(20:13):
of the release and then like,what do you, what do you look
for after a record's beenreleased to have a sense that
that it accomplished what youwanted to?
Sophie Jamieson (20:29):
to have a sense that that it accomplished what
you wanted to.
Um, I think I've learned to, uh, not look for anything.
Um, I've generally found havingnow done this twice and I
learned a lesson from the firsttime.
But, um, you're always going tobe surprised by what people
hear and how they interpret, and, um, and that you know, I think
(20:53):
it's a cliche.
You know, everyone says onrelease day you know, this
record is yours, now it's notmine anymore, and every time I
read that I'm like yeah, oh, ohmy.
God, it's normal, but it reallyis.
It's a cliche for a reason.
You really do have to.
(21:14):
You do actually have to let go.
I have had to detach myself fromthe record somewhat since it
came out, because I'm justexhausted by it I've heard that
many times like just because ofthe intimacy that you have with
(21:35):
that, before it's released, likeyou know every second of every
millisecond of what that soundedand and the lyrics and the, I'm
sure it's kind of like yeah,let's shelve it, it's good, I
don't need to hear it anymore.
Like I think.
I think because, because it'sthis and the last record are
(21:57):
both, in in their own slightlydifferent ways, very vulnerable
and very revealing um of of ofme and I I I haven't done a lot
to hide much generally and, um,and that can be very jarring
(22:21):
when something is released,because to some extent, you know
well, I'm not, I'm not puttingmusic out in order to be
understood.
I write the songs so that I canunderstand myself and then when
it comes out like, well, I'veactually I happen to have put
(22:44):
forward this most, um, like the,the best, they've done the best
job I possibly could have, umof painting this important
picture to me, yet still, um, alot of people are just not gonna
see it, see it for what I seeit as.
(23:04):
And, um, my, my first record.
I found that really um, reallydifficult um, because I thought
I'd actually been very, uh,careful as to what I said and
what I didn't say and still Ifelt like a lot was still
(23:25):
assumed or gaps were filled inthat I didn't realize someone
would think they had the rightto fill in with stuff that
really didn't feel like it satright.
So you know this one, I wasaware that that was a, that was
a possibility, but overall I, Iit's felt, it's actually felt
(23:46):
really much better than Ithought it would.
That's good.
Yeah, I knew a little bit morewhat to expect and I'm a bit
tougher, you know.
colleyc (23:58):
I was going to ask you that too.
The vulnerability it's such alike you're laying things out
there for anybody to take,interpret, put their thoughts
into it.
How did you first get thatalmost confidence to be like I
(24:21):
will put this out here andanybody can have access to it?
These are super revealing andpersonal thoughts that I have
here.
You go, like I always, I'malways curious about what it is
in a musician that that that can, that can make that jump over
to, of of penning them, writingthem, building them, feeling
(24:44):
them and then letting it free,almost like you know a bird
leaving its nest writing them,building them, feeling them and
then letting it free, almostlike you know a bird leaving its
nest.
You know, once it's big enoughto fly, off it goes.
How did you get that confidenceto fly as a musician with the
music that you put out?
that is you, you know, I meanit's you in lyrical play and in
(25:07):
musicality, um, but you knowsome pretty interesting,
interesting and tough topicsthat you, that you navigate um,
I think what just popped into myhead was that, yeah, you say
that it's me, but I think whenit feels good to put out, it
doesn't actually feel likenecessarily like me.
(25:28):
It feels like like that's.
Those are, when you've writtensomething that feels like you
want to share it, it's becauseyou, you realize you've tapped
into something that's a bitbigger than you and um, um, yeah
(25:55):
, I, I like some kind ofuniversal feeling, that that you
felt you captured and that mostpeople will feel these things.
Sophie Jamieson (26:05):
You know, people feel these things.
It's not just me that feelsthem like yeah like kind of
putting a mirror up forsometimes for people to kind of
look at themselves and reflectupon who they are as well
exactly, and maybe even in aslightly more woo-woo kind of
way I I think, um, there's,there's like a mysterious sort
(26:29):
of realm that you enter intowhen you perform a song live.
That feels very true and it'slike the most alive kind of
space to be in.
When you're deliveringsomething.
That feels like it's not justyours and it's not just the
(26:50):
audiences, but it like I don'tknow like belongs in the world
somewhere that has its own spaceand it's just, it's, um, it's,
it's like the best, it's myfavorite thing to do and it's,
it's a thing that makes me feelmost, um, um, part of this world
and connected in general, um,uh, and that's why that's why I
(27:16):
write like that's what I'mseeking out, apart from just
also like trying to figuremyself out.
Figuring myself out is it wasalso me just figuring out um,
this, this, this world and itsmystery and tapping into it as
much as possible.
And you know, I feel so luckythat I have a way of doing that
(27:37):
and and even most of the time, Ifeel like I don't.
I'm like I did that.
How do I do that?
Again, I can't remember.
It feels so impossible today,but in that sense, you know the
vulnerability.
I don't.
I don't really bat an eyelidabout it anymore and it's a
question that has come up umduring this album release a few
(28:02):
times and every time I I answeryou know how?
How are you okay with being sovulnerable in your uh songs?
I I do wonder if I'm um, if,like, maybe I've, is it a bit
weird that I that I'm so finewith it?
but I think what you mentionedabout the the live performing
(28:26):
yeah, it says it all like whenyou're performing these songs.
You see how it's affectingpeople.
I imagine like you can feelthat in the crowd.
No, well, I can, I, yes.
I mean, crowds are weird,sometimes you can't tell, okay,
but some but.
But it doesn't matter a lot ofthe time, it just doesn't matter
(28:46):
as long as you're feeling it.
Is that hard for you to getinto when you're performing live
.
Is it hard to get into that flowor does it come pre?
You said your first line arereally important, so I imagine
you feel it pretty quickly.
(29:06):
It really depends.
So I imagine you feel it prettyquickly it really depends, it
depends.
I'm a sensitive person, verysensitive to environment, and
there are so many factors thatcan affect how easy it is to
sink into a performance andoften it takes a couple of songs
(29:27):
, sometimes if the if everythingis just right, um, it can
happen straight away.
Or you know, there are so manygigs where like, well, I think I
played two songs out of six.
Well, but but then you get goodfeedback afterwards all the
same, you know we're always ourharshest critics, right, like
(29:50):
I'm.
colleyc (29:50):
I'm sure people come up after and, like you, change,
you, transform me, or you, youknow like you've been, you know
that was meant.
Everything to me, um, that's,that's pretty cool.
Well, sophie, to kind of bringthings to a close again, just I
thank you again.
I think your insights and yourvulnerability, we'll say, is
(30:13):
really I think artists out therelistening to this will be able
to identify and be like I'm notthe only one.
Oftentimes, when we're in ourbrain, we think it's you know,
I'm the only one that feels this.
In reality we don't, and Ithink that your songs put that
forth, that we all struggle andit's okay, we will figure it out
(30:39):
and we will find the light atthe end of the tunnel, and I
think a lot of your music bringsthe vulnerability, the
difficulty, but also there'sthere's.
There's a light, and when a lotof small lights come together,
it gets pretty bright out there.
Sophie Jamieson (30:52):
So oh, that's beautiful, Chris.
colleyc (30:57):
I thank you.
I was inspired by your Twinkielights.
Sophie Jamieson (31:00):
Oh yeah, that can't stand bright light.
It's just very light from here.
No.
colleyc (31:05):
I love it.
I love it.
So, to just kind of wrap thingsup, so if you were, what's 2025
?
Hold for you with your musicthat you can, that you can share
with us, are you going to bedoing some, some shows and other
such things, and are youcontinually writing for your
next record?
Are you taking a break?
(31:25):
What?
What can you reveal to us thatis public?
Sophie Jamieson (31:29):
Well, I'm playing some shows.
I'm sort of playing littlechunks of shows throughout the
year in the UK and Europe andI'm working on my writing
practice.
I'm working on my writingpractice and I'm writing, but
I'm also I'm really trying toopen up my writing a bit and
(32:01):
allow myself to do things insome new ways.
So that's like a big thing forme this year and I'm just trying
to um thing for me this yearand I'm just, I'm just trying to
um, I'm just trying to, like,put creativity first this year
and try to worry less about, um,the industry and how things
look from the outside and um,yeah, and somewhere, somewhere
(32:26):
this year, I'll be recordingsomething, I hope.
And, yeah, it's a year ofcreative stuff and cooking, I
think what have you been cookingthese days?
just as a quick closure, whatare some of the fun things you
like to cook?
colleyc (32:43):
oh well, I mean in terms of like songs, oh okay.
I'm a big cook too, so I waslike, oh cooking.
Sophie Jamieson (32:49):
But I'm gonna go and cook some, uh some noodle
soup in a minute, so nice well,so this has been a really
really great conversation.
I really appreciate it um thanksfor taking some time.
Yeah, it was really cool andthank you for putting these
records out.
Um.
I hope that you don't stop umbecause like you said at the
(33:10):
start of this like I think it ismuch for the listener, it is
for you, um, because it is likewe can help figure stuff out on
ourselves through the work thatyou've done for us.
So thank, thank you, thank youfor that.
Thank you so much.
This has been a really lovelychat.
I really appreciate it.
Cool.
Well, you have a good evening.
(33:32):
You too.
I broke it into half there inmy hand.
(34:03):
The camera Couldn't get thefocus To let it head to go.
We come to it here, you know.
(34:28):
Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
(35:55):
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.
With urges, you touch and losethe land.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, widening theshort Like curtains rising,
letting go of all.
You've got to find it.
You levitate an age above theblur, drawing out the mark of a
(36:36):
life that's still in the view.
No, I'm not here to look at you.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, Ooh, ooh, ooh,ooh, ooh, Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,
(37:34):
ooh, Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh,Ooh, ooh you.
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