July 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Matt Gallaway’s creative journey unfolds like a carefully crafted album—each chapter a different sound or mood, yet all tied together by a thread of honest self-expression. From basement jam sessions in Brooklyn to publishing acclaimed novels, Matt’s story is a powerful reminder of how art can shape, and be shaped by, personal transformation.
In our conversation, Matt shares how Saturnine came together almost by accident. He had moved to New York, supposedly for law school, but really to chase the city’s music scene. He lucked into a Brooklyn apartment with a basement perfect for band rehearsals, and soon after, Saturnine was born. They’d go on to record a handful of under-the-radar but beloved indie albums. Matt still lights up when talking about their first show at Brownies, booked by the legendary Karen Edlitz, and an unforgettable rooftop gig on a sweltering July 4th in Chinatown.
What really sets Matt’s story apart is how deeply intertwined his art is with his personal life. Listening back to Saturnine’s albums—especially Mid the Green Fields—he can now hear the hidden struggle he was going through. “I listen to that record and I’m just like, ‘this is about wanting to kill myself,’” he says, half-laughing, half-sighing. It’s raw, but honest—and a reflection of what it meant to grow up gay in a time when role models were few and far between.
Matt didn’t leave music behind; he just found a new way to tell his story. Writing novels like The Metropolis Case and #Gods let him explore identity and emotion in a more direct way. “A song takes me a few weeks,” he says. “A novel takes years.” But both are cut from the same creative cloth.
Now, with his latest project Death Culture at Sea, Matt is circling back to songwriting—this time with a broader view and a deeper well to draw from. Last summer, he teamed up with former bandmate Mike D’Onofrio and Matt Kadane of Bedhead/The New Year for recording sessions in Vermont, and there’s more music to come.
Want to hear what this journey sounds like? Head to Matt's blog for a playlist of his latest work with Death Culture at Sea.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
colleyc (00:00):
Here we are ending up season five of If it Be your
Will podcast.
We've had a great seasonStarted back in February and
we're July 7th today.
I'm wishing you all a greatfestival season and checking out
some of the great artists thatwe've had on this show.
There's some great records thatwill be released over the
(00:22):
summer and we'll catch up on allthat come September October.
My final cast of Season 5 iswith the great Matt Galloway,
who was a huge Saturnine fanback in the day in the 90s and I
had the opportunity to sit andchat with him about how that
played an influence on his lifeand also what it led to.
(00:45):
It was such a greatconversation.
I hope you guys enjoy it as thefinal episode and have a great
summer and we'll see you comefall.
Matt Gallaway (00:53):
I was younger than the years they fell so hard
.
When I see you in the morning,I wipe the tears out of my eyes.
(01:17):
The wind is blowing like anoutlaw, a good trouble in a car.
If I hope to leave you now,it's a hope that won't go far,
(01:45):
but we'll see what morning rain.
When I wake up, I might listento you sing.
When I wake up, I might listento you sing.
colleyc (02:09):
I'm reaching down to New York City and I have the
very famous Matt Galloway,author, musician, coming to talk
, kind of a journey back in time.
Then we're going to come diveinto new world, because matt
didn't only start um saturnineback in the day, but has this
(02:32):
project that he's been workingon forever called death culture
at sea, which is really greatstuff.
Um, I will share the playlistin my blog post when I put this
cast out.
But but you'll notice on theblog, I've just put an entry for
Matt on there and it brings youright to his playlist so you
(02:52):
can listen to every song beforeI actually publish this.
Matt, thank you so much forhopping on here.
It was kind of out of the blue.
Um, I'll tell you the story ofwhy I reached out to you.
I um, I recently had on superdouble x man, um scott, and we
started talking about you.
(03:13):
Um, and I remember also I had umladybug transistor on and gary
started talking about you aswell and I I was like I love
Saturn, Because I know yourrelationship with Gary is very
intimate with the music that youwere creating back in the late
90s, mid 90s, Probably yeah.
Outstanding producer and healso was raving about Saturn 9.
(03:39):
Now I know Saturn 9 has beenshelved for a decade or so.
Matt Gallaway (03:47):
Yeah, I would say for like two, but it doesn't
matter.
colleyc (03:52):
But I think it lives on and I really love this.
Matt, you've kind of evolvedinto an author.
Yeah, you have a couple ofbooks out.
So, Matt, to kind of get usstarted, I want to go back in
time and I'd love to kind of getan idea of how did Saturnine
(04:13):
come to be.
What were the circumstances orthe machinations that brought
you guys together?
Matt Gallaway (04:23):
I was in law school at the time and I sort of
used law school as an excuse tomove to New York city because I
, you know, wanted to move toNew York city and that was a
good way to do it, which wasprobably not the best way
approach to going to law school.
But, um, I had a friend, uh, Iwent to high school with this
(04:45):
guy, ed Belouillette, who is inVersus I don't know if you
probably know Versus and we had,you know, we had been in touch
and it seemed like he was doingreally cool things which, you
know, they were Versus, you know, were amazing.
And so I moved to the city andI was in law school, amazing and
(05:07):
so I moved to the city and Iwas in law school and then I met
, um, mike D'Onofrio, who's thebass player was in one of my
classes first year in law schooland he was wearing a fire hose
t-shirt and I was like, oh man,I got to talk to that guy and we
hit it off and he came over tomy house, um, or my apartment in
brooklyn, where we had abasement.
I specifically wanted to findan apartment with a basement
(05:31):
that was like my one, my onething I wanted and we found an
apartment with a basement and somike and I played, and then it
just so happened that jennifer Iwas living one of my roommates
had gone to college withJennifer and she just came over
and heard that we were playingin the basement or something and
(05:54):
we started talking and she wasvery interested in playing music
and, coincidentally, jenniferand I grew up in the same town.
We didn't know each otherbecause we went away to school,
but anyway, she started playingwith us and then the drummer was
another friend of mine fromcollege.
(06:15):
So we started playing showsaround New York City, first at
parties and then we got a showat.
Our first show is at brownies,um, through the legendary uh
booking agent at brownies, karenedlitz.
Um, who was like a force ofnature back then.
(06:37):
Um, she was always bookingincredible shows and like
basically terrorizing peopleinto, like playing them.
She would like I remember beingon the phone, like I'd be on a
long distance call or somethingto my mother or whatever, and
the operator would come on andbe like emergency breakthrough
(06:58):
from karen.
Karen would be like I have thisincredible bill and I want you
know, I want you guys to play,you know, the slot, and so she.
She was a little unconventional, but she, she, she did book
incredible shows.
colleyc (07:16):
That's cool.
And Matt were you.
I mean, obviously you weredoing music before you moved to
New York City.
Doing music before you moved toNew York City, what was your
like?
What was your push to want toget into music writing,
recording, touring when did thatstart inside you?
Matt Gallaway (07:34):
I think you know, going back to high school, I
went to a very sort of artsoriented high school and people,
people are always doing a lotof artistic things and I was
part of that.
That always appealed to mequite a bit.
And then in college I was inyou know kind of cover bands for
(07:57):
a while and you know that wasfun and I learned a lot but it
wasn't quite the same thing.
And then I'd say juniors insenior year I started.
I became friends with more theagain the artier kids at my
college and they were listeningto you know Mudhoney and you
(08:19):
know a lot of the grunge bands.
And then I heard galaxy 500 andit totally blew my mind.
colleyc (08:27):
Um, do you remember what first song you heard from
galaxy?
That was like oh my god, like Igot it yeah, the first.
Matt Gallaway (08:36):
The first album I got was the third one.
Um, this is our music yeah andalthough actually I take that
was the when I was in college, Iremember seeing the album and
hearing it but it, uh, on fire.
But it didn't really hit me atthat moment because it was just
(08:57):
kind of in passing and everyonewas like, oh, what is this?
Because we were like obsessedwith the pixies and dinosaur
junior and husker do and a lot,you know, heavier stuff, sure.
And then I remember playingthis is our music and just like
playing it over and over andover again and that was that was
like during the phase where youcouldn't get um on fire and
(09:21):
what was the first one today?
Yeah, and so the, the miracle ofwhen we played our first show
at brownies, dean warren wasactually in the audience with
harry tolkien who was the likethe anr guy, um, because they
saw, I forget they were there tosee another band, basically,
(09:42):
but they saw us and of course wemet them and we were just like
it was like yeah our dreams cametrue because you know, he was a
nice, very nice guy andcomplimentary, and then he sent
us copies of the first twoalbums and that was, yeah, that
was a huge thing.
(10:02):
So to get back to your originalquestion, when I moved to New
York I, just after college I waslike I want to do something
more original and it just seemedlike, you know, that was a time
when a lot of people were ohalso, I lived in DC before I
moved to New York City and thatwas like the height of the
Fugazi era for me, and that waslike the height of the Fugazi
(10:24):
era for me and like one of themost.
I mean, I love Fugazi for theirmusic, obviously, but I also
love them for their communityoutreach and how you would go to
those shows and they would saystart your own band, start your
own record label, and that justI thought was the most awesome
thing.
colleyc (10:48):
Right, right label, and that just I thought was the
most awesome thing.
Right, right, and when.
Like when did you guys decideto get out, move out of the
basement, so you did your firstshow.
Like when did the first kind ofrecord soundings?
Let's put together a record andsee like how did, how did that
origin start?
Matt Gallaway (11:03):
yeah, we, um, uh, we, we played a few parties and
then we were I was actuallyliving with a guy.
One of my roommates had alittle studio in the basement so
we were able to record a demotape of, I want to say, two or
three songs, and that's when we,you know, we started sending
(11:26):
giving the demo out to um.
That's how, I'm sure, we gotour first show at brownies, and
we had a lot of friends too, soit was easy to get another show
at brownies.
I mean, we could have been, uh,you know, playing like garbage,
I'm sure, because you know thatsometimes happens with me.
(11:47):
And so that one thing led toanother.
And then we met, um, angelastran, who ran dirt records and
we loved angela, but and she had, she also had a galaxy 500
connection because her husbandput out a galaxy 500's first
(12:08):
record.
Um, I forget what the name ofthe record label is right now,
but she lived in this reallycool loft in chinatown and she
just seemed like a very coolperson, so she put out a single,
I believe.
And then we put out a few othersingles with some other people
and then we put out that EP,auto Guider, and then you know,
(12:33):
things just sort of progressedfrom there.
Amazing, amazing.
colleyc (12:37):
And what were some of the moments of Saturn 9 that
will always stick with you?
Like, what are some of thosekey moments or tipping points
that happen with Saturn 9 thatyou know either propelled you in
a direction or veered you off,in that sense, Like, do you have
some of those recollections,Matt?
Matt Gallaway (12:57):
I mean In terms of just like good memories I
often think about, like weplayed this show.
I want to say it was probablylike 1996 or 97, on the 4th of
July.
It was like 110 degrees and wehad it.
(13:18):
It was an outdoor show on therooftop of Angela's apartment
building in Chinatown and youknow, it was just like
murderously hot.
We had to carry up our amps youknow six lights and the amps
were like sinking into the roof,the tarp rooftop.
(13:38):
But then, you know, the sunstarted to go down and we
actually played.
But then, you know, the sunstarted to go down and we
actually played and you know,it's just such an amazing like
New York City moment because thesun was going down and the
breeze kind of picked up andthere were a lot of people.
The rooftop of uh of Chinatownwas, you know it was sort of
(14:08):
like our um, you know our, ourBeatles.
You know it's nothing like theBeatles, but it just felt like
an incredible thing.
colleyc (14:14):
And um, you know I feel , too, that that what you guys
were doing, and and performing,and, and that the crowd was
feeding off of that as wellthere was this like two-way
exchange between the crowd andthe band yeah, I mean I think
that happened enough.
Matt Gallaway (14:32):
I mean we, we did .
I mean we were never like bigenough to like really pull in
like huge crowds, but I we didplay enough shows like that
where we had the experience of,you know, really playing live
and having experiencing thatmagic from the perspective of a
(14:57):
stage.
So that, I think, was, you know, that's something I'll never
forget and always kind of, youknow, think back fondly on
Totally, totally.
colleyc (15:10):
And I read that Mid the Green Fields was your, was
destined to be your last record,Like like.
Was that a decision that theband had said that this will be
the last thing that we maketogether?
Matt Gallaway (15:25):
Actually Mid the Green Fields came out before
American Kestrel.
So American Kestrel, that wasthe last album we did with
Jennifer and Jennifer wasbasically very busy with Ladybug
Transistor and so we just wedecided to part ways for a while
(15:50):
.
And then, as then, we recruiteda keyboard player, this guy who
was just a fan of the band, andwe thought we'd kind of go in a
different direction.
So we recorded an album Iforget what it's called oh, uh,
(16:15):
the pleasure of ruins.
And then we recorded, uh, thatrock opera was the last thing we
did.
Um, and those were both.
I mean, the pleasure of ruinswas amazing because we recorded
it with Steve Albini, chicago,and we got to know him pretty
well.
Mike actually got to know himeven better because he went on
(16:35):
to play with the new year, whorecorded several records with
Steve Albini and um, and thatlast record was very meaningful
to me because I was a huge fanof the Canaans and I became
friendly.
They came over and lived in NewYork for a while and I played a
(16:57):
few shows with the Canaans andjust to have Francis singing on
that record was, you know,that's another like kind of
all-time highlight for me and Iwas also getting very interested
in opera myself, like realopera, so I was like, oh, maybe
I can write like a rock opera,which was a little presumptuous.
(17:22):
But you know, whatever it was,it was fun.
colleyc (17:24):
Yeah, and what was the transition then from from guitar
to pen, like, was that a quicktransition or or were you always
kind of writing stories and andhad ideas to, to you know, put
out novels and stuff?
Matt Gallaway (17:41):
Was that?
colleyc (17:42):
always something that was percolating?
Or was there a quick shift ofokay, music I've, I'm shelving
and now I'm going to start toexplore?
Matt Gallaway (17:50):
I think what, what happened to me, like I mean
, basically the big theme in mylife, artistically and you know,
personally, and everything elseis just my trajectory from
somebody who was in the closetto somebody who was out and not
in the closet.
And I think when I was youngerand in my 20s and Saturnine, I
(18:13):
was struggling a lot with beinggay and being in the closet and
music seemed like a way toexpress that struggle and I was
always like a big reader growingup and I think once I took a
break from music, I wanted touse and I also came out of the
(18:35):
closet and, um, I wanted to usewriting as a means to explore
what it meant for me to be gayand ultimately, um, I think
that's that's sort of what I'mstill interested in is like
thinking about.
Like when I was younger, Ithought being gay was more like
(18:57):
just about like having sex withsomebody and, and now my, it's
more like a whole frameworkthrough which I view just about
everything, like ourrelationships, society.
You know it's taught me so muchabout how I see myself and also
how I see society and I thinkwhen I started writing I was
(19:23):
still kind of like feeling myway through that and that's been
sort of the journey of mywriting.
colleyc (19:30):
Right, my kinds of prose.
When you were writing songs,did your acknowledgement of who
you were start to come out in inthe lyrics that you were
writing?
Like without perhaps youknowing?
And I guess I'm trying to ask,like, if you look back on the
(19:51):
lyrics of those early twentiesthat you were, can you see
remnants of this?
Is the?
These are.
These are the moments I wastrying to come to terms, come
out to I, you know figure outwho I was.
Matt Gallaway (20:07):
I mean, they can be hard to listen to for me, um,
because a lot of like,especially, I would say, mid the
green fields in particular islike like I feel like I listen
to that record and I'm just likethis is about wanting to kill
myself, like the whole, thewhole record.
colleyc (20:22):
Start to finish I don't mean to laugh, but no, no, no,
I mean I'm laughing too.
Matt Gallaway (20:28):
Um, it's and that was, I mean it was very
traumatic, um, and I think aboutit a lot in terms of, you know,
I think these days we're soaccustomed to having like
awesome artists who are out andthey're gay and they're.
You know, I was just watchinglike a concert clip of Perfume
(20:49):
Genius the other day and I'mlike, you know, this guy is so
amazing, I love him, but therewas nothing like him in the
early 90s.
You know it just didn't exist90s, you know it just didn't
(21:10):
exist.
And culturally, you know, therewas so much shame around being
gay.
And I also grew up in a like,in a way, that most people
assumed that I wasn't gaybecause I was, I was good at
sports, basically it was.
It was boiled down to thesehorrible stereotypes.
So, yeah, when I go back andlisten, I'm just like, oh my God
(21:31):
, what a tortured soul.
colleyc (21:37):
I mean I imagine, though, that that kind of stuff
helps to situate yourself, inthe sense that I mean many
artists like I talked to, andI'm sure you would agree with
this that it's that process ofkind of dealing with your
internal emotions and figuringout who you are and getting it
out of you, and and music isthat vehicle.
Um has has that vehicle always.
(22:01):
Were you able to transfer thatover to your writing as well, as
an author as well, of justdealing with who you are in the
world and you know ourenvironment around us and the
circumstances it's?
Matt Gallaway (22:13):
more explicit.
Let me put it that way, likeone of the great things about
music, it is I think it's moreimpressionistic Like you can
(22:35):
write a chord progression andyou feel what it is meant to
convey, perhaps, but it so muchis open to interpretation.
And although that's true withwriting, obviously I think it's
less true because you're sayingwords and in theory, we all have
a understanding of what eachword means interesting, and so
(22:56):
you've been writing books now,for I mean, your first book was
the metropolis case that'scorrect.
colleyc (23:02):
Yes, and then you had one that just came out called
gods hashtag gods yeah and arethose your two books that you've
put out, matt?
Matt Gallaway (23:11):
yeah, those are the two novels and I I tend to
be a pretty slow writer, sofingers crossed, there will be
another one at some point nottoo distant future.
Great.
colleyc (23:21):
I heard that you like writing in airports.
That's your.
Matt Gallaway (23:24):
I do like writing in airports, I write, I'll
write anywhere.
I mean some people, you knowI'm always kind of laughing
because people will be like, oh,I had to go to a writing
retreat and you know, spend sixmonths in the mountains just to
be able to write something, andI felt like I never had that
luxury and mean I wouldn't minddoing that.
(23:46):
But you know there's like jobsand you know the rest of life
quite um finesse, that uh, thatkind of mode of writing.
colleyc (23:59):
So yeah, I I'm good at writing pretty much anywhere
right and prolific, I would say,and I just wanted to touch on
too, I mean, your latest kind ofmusical outlet.
Um, you put a ton out on youryoutube channel.
Um are these songs like?
Can you talk to us a little bitabout what, what your purpose
is with death culture at sea?
Matt Gallaway (24:20):
like yeah yeah, I mean I had sort of started
recording a little bit in thelike the early 2010s and with
like garage band or whatever,just because it was.
You know, I thought it was funto keep to keep my fingers in it
.
But then I I sort of took a fewyears off and I wasn't really
(24:42):
thinking about it too much.
But when the pandemic started Iwas like I want to learn like a
real recording, you know,online studio, um.
So that's what I did and I it'sbeen great because I feel like
(25:02):
it's given me a moresophisticated understanding of
the recording process and youknow, I'm having fun writing the
songs and what's nice about asong to me, as opposed to a
novel, is like a song takes me afew weeks, you know, from start
to finish and it's uh.
(25:24):
And then what I've done is, um,we did last summer I got
together in vermont with miked'onofrio and matt cadane, who
is, you know, of bedhead in newyear fame and he's an
unbelievably good drummer, andso he played drums and Mike
(25:45):
played bass and I just I did theguitar parts and the singing
and that was like so much fun,just to like go into a studio a
few days and and and record afew songs.
We're going to do it again thissummer, which is exciting,
that's so cool?
colleyc (26:03):
Is it again this summer , which is exciting.
That's so cool is is there apotential of these sessions
amalgamating into something thatyou might share with the world?
Matt Gallaway (26:11):
well, I mean there are, they're on youtube.
I I don't really do I don't putout music these days with any
expectation that there will be arecord or anything like that.
But I mean, if somebody came tome and they're like, oh, I want
to put out a record, I'm surethat we would be, we meaning me
(26:31):
I'd be happy to talk to them.
But that's not really what it'sabout for me.
I just love creating the songs,putting them out there, and you
know it is nice because I meanone of the things you asked
about, I think in your questionyou had a question about like
connecting with people still doget random notes from people who
(26:58):
talk about how they likedSaturnine and how Saturnine
music meant something to them,and they or they're checking out
death culture at sea and theylike that.
So it's nice to have thoseconversations because it just
even if it's on a very smallscale, it just means that you
(27:18):
know like the art is having likean impact in a in a small way,
and that, to me, is enough.
You know it.
The art is having like animpact in a in a small way and
that, to me, is enough.
You know it.
It just it makes me feel goodthat I spent all of those years
kind of learning, learning toplay music and learning about
the craft and sort of likefinding my way through the
community.
It's like I feel like I'm stillpart of it, even in a small way
(27:41):
.
So Like I feel like I'm stillpart of it, even in a small way,
so that's a nice feeling.
colleyc (27:45):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, I mean, you have fans outthere, that's for sure.
I'm an avid fan of Saturn 9.
And I'm really enjoying thedeath culture at sea.
There's some attachments to theSaturn 9 that I'm getting from
it, but also these new avenuesthat you're opening up, and it's
(28:06):
just so nice to hear you singagain.
Thank you, I just I've alwaysloved your voice and the way you
play guitar and the way youwrite songs.
And preparing for this, I mean,I pulled the whole catalog out,
matt, I'm telling you on replay.
(28:27):
I want to thank you for this,and something that you said
really is sticks with me and andit meant something a lot saying
that once you create thesethings, they're out there, the
world has access to them andthey take them for what they
want it and leave what theydon't want.
I mean again, we we don'tcontrol this as artists, but I
(28:47):
love that your music will alwaysbe out there and that my kids
will experience it.
And actually my son came overtoday and I was blaring um
american kestrel because it's myfavorite, and he's's like dad,
have you played this for mebefore?
And I'm like, of course I have.
And he's like, oh, yeah, Ireally like this.
(29:07):
So it has this universalattachment to to people that Age
doesn't really matter, you knowlike it connects to people's
heart and their soul and theirfeelings, and I'm just so happy
that you you had thoseexperiences and that you're
continuing it.
(29:27):
I feel that we're grateful tohave your art in the world, matt
so.
Matt Gallaway (29:31):
I want to thank you for that, and what you're
doing is equally important too.
I mean, I'm a big fan.
I mean I'm a compulsive bloggerand I've been doing that for
almost 20 years, so I appreciatewhat you're doing too, and I
know it's a lot of work.
So you know, thank you forreaching out.
colleyc (29:50):
Yeah Well, it's been a real pleasure, and I mean
getting to meet some of my alltime fan artists.
Is is such a treat for me, andI'm glad I have this platform
also so that I can make yourvoices heard and and memorialize
, you know, in a sense, thatmaybe we'll listen to this 20
years from now and be like oh,those are some cool stories
(30:11):
about Saturn.
Nine like that maybe weren'tout there, but now we can get
them out there because theydeserve being listened to.
Matt Gallaway (30:18):
So exactly yes, well, thank you very much.
colleyc (30:21):
Well, thank you very much.
Well, thank you, matt, and allthe best.
And um well, let's keep intouch, cause I just I think this
can be a part two down the roadsomewhere.
Matt Gallaway (30:30):
Um, I have so many more questions to chat with
you, but it's been a realpleasure, so thank you, thank
you.
We remember.
(31:28):
Please remember to shelter whenyou're old.
Soon enough, the day will end,the fever will break, the colors
(31:57):
will blend.
Once had the power to win, nowto reckon with the sin, and we
(32:21):
were right to go away.
And we were right to go away.
And we were right to go away.
colleyc (32:58):
I'm running backwards, facing coward In my soul.
We remember this feeling whenyou're home, only when the
(33:45):
memories remain Leaving tracesof who we've been, only when the
memories remain Leaving tracesof who we've been.
(34:16):
Guitar solo, thank you.
Here we are ending up season five of If it Be your
Will podcast.
We've had a great seasonStarted back in February and
we're July 7th today.
I'm wishing you all a greatfestival season and checking out
some of the great artists thatwe've had on this show.
There's some great records thatwill be released over the
(00:22):
summer and we'll catch up on allthat come September October.
My final cast of Season 5 iswith the great Matt Galloway,
who was a huge Saturnine fanback in the day in the 90s and I
had the opportunity to sit andchat with him about how that
played an influence on his lifeand also what it led to.
(00:45):
It was such a greatconversation.
I hope you guys enjoy it as thefinal episode and have a great
summer and we'll see you comefall.
Matt Gallaway (00:53):
I was younger than the years they fell so hard
.
When I see you in the morning,I wipe the tears out of my eyes.
(01:17):
The wind is blowing like anoutlaw, a good trouble in a car.
If I hope to leave you now,it's a hope that won't go far,
(01:45):
but we'll see what morning rain.
When I wake up, I might listento you sing.
When I wake up, I might listento you sing.
colleyc (02:09):
I'm reaching down to New York City and I have the
very famous Matt Galloway,author, musician, coming to talk
, kind of a journey back in time.
Then we're going to come diveinto new world, because matt
didn't only start um saturnineback in the day, but has this
(02:32):
project that he's been workingon forever called death culture
at sea, which is really greatstuff.
Um, I will share the playlistin my blog post when I put this
cast out.
But but you'll notice on theblog, I've just put an entry for
Matt on there and it brings youright to his playlist so you
(02:52):
can listen to every song beforeI actually publish this.
Matt, thank you so much forhopping on here.
It was kind of out of the blue.
Um, I'll tell you the story ofwhy I reached out to you.
I um, I recently had on superdouble x man, um scott, and we
started talking about you.
(03:13):
Um, and I remember also I had umladybug transistor on and gary
started talking about you aswell and I I was like I love
Saturn, Because I know yourrelationship with Gary is very
intimate with the music that youwere creating back in the late
90s, mid 90s, Probably yeah.
Outstanding producer and healso was raving about Saturn 9.
(03:39):
Now I know Saturn 9 has beenshelved for a decade or so.
Matt Gallaway (03:47):
Yeah, I would say for like two, but it doesn't
matter.
colleyc (03:52):
But I think it lives on and I really love this.
Matt, you've kind of evolvedinto an author.
Yeah, you have a couple ofbooks out.
So, Matt, to kind of get usstarted, I want to go back in
time and I'd love to kind of getan idea of how did Saturnine
(04:13):
come to be.
What were the circumstances orthe machinations that brought
you guys together?
Matt Gallaway (04:23):
I was in law school at the time and I sort of
used law school as an excuse tomove to New York city because I
, you know, wanted to move toNew York city and that was a
good way to do it, which wasprobably not the best way
approach to going to law school.
But, um, I had a friend, uh, Iwent to high school with this
(04:45):
guy, ed Belouillette, who is inVersus I don't know if you
probably know Versus and we had,you know, we had been in touch
and it seemed like he was doingreally cool things which, you
know, they were Versus, you know, were amazing.
And so I moved to the city andI was in law school, amazing and
(05:07):
so I moved to the city and Iwas in law school and then I met
, um, mike D'Onofrio, who's thebass player was in one of my
classes first year in law schooland he was wearing a fire hose
t-shirt and I was like, oh man,I got to talk to that guy and we
hit it off and he came over tomy house, um, or my apartment in
brooklyn, where we had abasement.
I specifically wanted to findan apartment with a basement
(05:31):
that was like my one, my onething I wanted and we found an
apartment with a basement and somike and I played, and then it
just so happened that jennifer Iwas living one of my roommates
had gone to college withJennifer and she just came over
and heard that we were playingin the basement or something and
(05:54):
we started talking and she wasvery interested in playing music
and, coincidentally, jenniferand I grew up in the same town.
We didn't know each otherbecause we went away to school,
but anyway, she started playingwith us and then the drummer was
another friend of mine fromcollege.
(06:15):
So we started playing showsaround New York City, first at
parties and then we got a showat.
Our first show is at brownies,um, through the legendary uh
booking agent at brownies, karenedlitz.
Um, who was like a force ofnature back then.
(06:37):
Um, she was always bookingincredible shows and like
basically terrorizing peopleinto, like playing them.
She would like I remember beingon the phone, like I'd be on a
long distance call or somethingto my mother or whatever, and
the operator would come on andbe like emergency breakthrough
(06:58):
from karen.
Karen would be like I have thisincredible bill and I want you
know, I want you guys to play,you know, the slot, and so she.
She was a little unconventional, but she, she, she did book
incredible shows.
colleyc (07:16):
That's cool.
And Matt were you.
I mean, obviously you weredoing music before you moved to
New York City.
Doing music before you moved toNew York City, what was your
like?
What was your push to want toget into music writing,
recording, touring when did thatstart inside you?
Matt Gallaway (07:34):
I think you know, going back to high school, I
went to a very sort of artsoriented high school and people,
people are always doing a lotof artistic things and I was
part of that.
That always appealed to mequite a bit.
And then in college I was inyou know kind of cover bands for
(07:57):
a while and you know that wasfun and I learned a lot but it
wasn't quite the same thing.
And then I'd say juniors insenior year I started.
I became friends with more theagain the artier kids at my
college and they were listeningto you know Mudhoney and you
(08:19):
know a lot of the grunge bands.
And then I heard galaxy 500 andit totally blew my mind.
colleyc (08:27):
Um, do you remember what first song you heard from
galaxy?
That was like oh my god, like Igot it yeah, the first.
Matt Gallaway (08:36):
The first album I got was the third one.
Um, this is our music yeah andalthough actually I take that
was the when I was in college, Iremember seeing the album and
hearing it but it, uh, on fire.
But it didn't really hit me atthat moment because it was just
(08:57):
kind of in passing and everyonewas like, oh, what is this?
Because we were like obsessedwith the pixies and dinosaur
junior and husker do and a lot,you know, heavier stuff, sure.
And then I remember playingthis is our music and just like
playing it over and over andover again and that was that was
like during the phase where youcouldn't get um on fire and
(09:21):
what was the first one today?
Yeah, and so the, the miracle ofwhen we played our first show
at brownies, dean warren wasactually in the audience with
harry tolkien who was the likethe anr guy, um, because they
saw, I forget they were there tosee another band, basically,
(09:42):
but they saw us and of course wemet them and we were just like
it was like yeah our dreams cametrue because you know, he was a
nice, very nice guy andcomplimentary, and then he sent
us copies of the first twoalbums and that was, yeah, that
was a huge thing.
(10:02):
So to get back to your originalquestion, when I moved to New
York I, just after college I waslike I want to do something
more original and it just seemedlike, you know, that was a time
when a lot of people were ohalso, I lived in DC before I
moved to New York City and thatwas like the height of the
Fugazi era for me, and that waslike the height of the Fugazi
(10:24):
era for me and like one of themost.
I mean, I love Fugazi for theirmusic, obviously, but I also
love them for their communityoutreach and how you would go to
those shows and they would saystart your own band, start your
own record label, and that justI thought was the most awesome
thing.
colleyc (10:48):
Right, right label, and that just I thought was the
most awesome thing.
Right, right, and when.
Like when did you guys decideto get out, move out of the
basement, so you did your firstshow.
Like when did the first kind ofrecord soundings?
Let's put together a record andsee like how did, how did that
origin start?
Matt Gallaway (11:03):
yeah, we, um, uh, we, we played a few parties and
then we were I was actuallyliving with a guy.
One of my roommates had alittle studio in the basement so
we were able to record a demotape of, I want to say, two or
three songs, and that's when we,you know, we started sending
(11:26):
giving the demo out to um.
That's how, I'm sure, we gotour first show at brownies, and
we had a lot of friends too, soit was easy to get another show
at brownies.
I mean, we could have been, uh,you know, playing like garbage,
I'm sure, because you know thatsometimes happens with me.
(11:47):
And so that one thing led toanother.
And then we met, um, angelastran, who ran dirt records and
we loved angela, but and she had, she also had a galaxy 500
connection because her husbandput out a galaxy 500's first
(12:08):
record.
Um, I forget what the name ofthe record label is right now,
but she lived in this reallycool loft in chinatown and she
just seemed like a very coolperson, so she put out a single,
I believe.
And then we put out a few othersingles with some other people
and then we put out that EP,auto Guider, and then you know,
(12:33):
things just sort of progressedfrom there.
Amazing, amazing.
colleyc (12:37):
And what were some of the moments of Saturn 9 that
will always stick with you?
Like, what are some of thosekey moments or tipping points
that happen with Saturn 9 thatyou know either propelled you in
a direction or veered you off,in that sense, Like, do you have
some of those recollections,Matt?
Matt Gallaway (12:57):
I mean In terms of just like good memories I
often think about, like weplayed this show.
I want to say it was probablylike 1996 or 97, on the 4th of
July.
It was like 110 degrees and wehad it.
(13:18):
It was an outdoor show on therooftop of Angela's apartment
building in Chinatown and youknow, it was just like
murderously hot.
We had to carry up our amps youknow six lights and the amps
were like sinking into the roof,the tarp rooftop.
(13:38):
But then, you know, the sunstarted to go down and we
actually played.
But then, you know, the sunstarted to go down and we
actually played and you know,it's just such an amazing like
New York City moment because thesun was going down and the
breeze kind of picked up andthere were a lot of people.
The rooftop of uh of Chinatownwas, you know it was sort of
(14:08):
like our um, you know our, ourBeatles.
You know it's nothing like theBeatles, but it just felt like
an incredible thing.
colleyc (14:14):
And um, you know I feel , too, that that what you guys
were doing, and and performing,and, and that the crowd was
feeding off of that as wellthere was this like two-way
exchange between the crowd andthe band yeah, I mean I think
that happened enough.
Matt Gallaway (14:32):
I mean we, we did .
I mean we were never like bigenough to like really pull in
like huge crowds, but I we didplay enough shows like that
where we had the experience of,you know, really playing live
and having experiencing thatmagic from the perspective of a
(14:57):
stage.
So that, I think, was, you know, that's something I'll never
forget and always kind of, youknow, think back fondly on
Totally, totally.
colleyc (15:10):
And I read that Mid the Green Fields was your, was
destined to be your last record,Like like.
Was that a decision that theband had said that this will be
the last thing that we maketogether?
Matt Gallaway (15:25):
Actually Mid the Green Fields came out before
American Kestrel.
So American Kestrel, that wasthe last album we did with
Jennifer and Jennifer wasbasically very busy with Ladybug
Transistor and so we just wedecided to part ways for a while
(15:50):
.
And then, as then, we recruiteda keyboard player, this guy who
was just a fan of the band, andwe thought we'd kind of go in a
different direction.
So we recorded an album Iforget what it's called oh, uh,
(16:15):
the pleasure of ruins.
And then we recorded, uh, thatrock opera was the last thing we
did.
Um, and those were both.
I mean, the pleasure of ruinswas amazing because we recorded
it with Steve Albini, chicago,and we got to know him pretty
well.
Mike actually got to know himeven better because he went on
(16:35):
to play with the new year, whorecorded several records with
Steve Albini and um, and thatlast record was very meaningful
to me because I was a huge fanof the Canaans and I became
friendly.
They came over and lived in NewYork for a while and I played a
(16:57):
few shows with the Canaans andjust to have Francis singing on
that record was, you know,that's another like kind of
all-time highlight for me and Iwas also getting very interested
in opera myself, like realopera, so I was like, oh, maybe
I can write like a rock opera,which was a little presumptuous.
(17:22):
But you know, whatever it was,it was fun.
colleyc (17:24):
Yeah, and what was the transition then from from guitar
to pen, like, was that a quicktransition or or were you always
kind of writing stories and andhad ideas to, to you know, put
out novels and stuff?
Matt Gallaway (17:41):
Was that?
colleyc (17:42):
always something that was percolating?
Or was there a quick shift ofokay, music I've, I'm shelving
and now I'm going to start toexplore?
Matt Gallaway (17:50):
I think what, what happened to me, like I mean
, basically the big theme in mylife, artistically and you know,
personally, and everything elseis just my trajectory from
somebody who was in the closetto somebody who was out and not
in the closet.
And I think when I was youngerand in my 20s and Saturnine, I
(18:13):
was struggling a lot with beinggay and being in the closet and
music seemed like a way toexpress that struggle and I was
always like a big reader growingup and I think once I took a
break from music, I wanted touse and I also came out of the
(18:35):
closet and, um, I wanted to usewriting as a means to explore
what it meant for me to be gayand ultimately, um, I think
that's that's sort of what I'mstill interested in is like
thinking about.
Like when I was younger, Ithought being gay was more like
(18:57):
just about like having sex withsomebody and, and now my, it's
more like a whole frameworkthrough which I view just about
everything, like ourrelationships, society.
You know it's taught me so muchabout how I see myself and also
how I see society and I thinkwhen I started writing I was
(19:23):
still kind of like feeling myway through that and that's been
sort of the journey of mywriting.
colleyc (19:30):
Right, my kinds of prose.
When you were writing songs,did your acknowledgement of who
you were start to come out in inthe lyrics that you were
writing?
Like without perhaps youknowing?
And I guess I'm trying to ask,like, if you look back on the
(19:51):
lyrics of those early twentiesthat you were, can you see
remnants of this?
Is the?
These are.
These are the moments I wastrying to come to terms, come
out to I, you know figure outwho I was.
Matt Gallaway (20:07):
I mean, they can be hard to listen to for me, um,
because a lot of like,especially, I would say, mid the
green fields in particular islike like I feel like I listen
to that record and I'm just likethis is about wanting to kill
myself, like the whole, thewhole record.
colleyc (20:22):
Start to finish I don't mean to laugh, but no, no, no,
I mean I'm laughing too.
Matt Gallaway (20:28):
Um, it's and that was, I mean it was very
traumatic, um, and I think aboutit a lot in terms of, you know,
I think these days we're soaccustomed to having like
awesome artists who are out andthey're gay and they're.
You know, I was just watchinglike a concert clip of Perfume
(20:49):
Genius the other day and I'mlike, you know, this guy is so
amazing, I love him, but therewas nothing like him in the
early 90s.
You know it just didn't exist90s, you know it just didn't
(21:10):
exist.
And culturally, you know, therewas so much shame around being
gay.
And I also grew up in a like,in a way, that most people
assumed that I wasn't gaybecause I was, I was good at
sports, basically it was.
It was boiled down to thesehorrible stereotypes.
So, yeah, when I go back andlisten, I'm just like, oh my God
(21:31):
, what a tortured soul.
colleyc (21:37):
I mean I imagine, though, that that kind of stuff
helps to situate yourself, inthe sense that I mean many
artists like I talked to, andI'm sure you would agree with
this that it's that process ofkind of dealing with your
internal emotions and figuringout who you are and getting it
out of you, and and music isthat vehicle.
Um has has that vehicle always.
(22:01):
Were you able to transfer thatover to your writing as well, as
an author as well, of justdealing with who you are in the
world and you know ourenvironment around us and the
circumstances it's?
Matt Gallaway (22:13):
more explicit.
Let me put it that way, likeone of the great things about
music, it is I think it's moreimpressionistic Like you can
(22:35):
write a chord progression andyou feel what it is meant to
convey, perhaps, but it so muchis open to interpretation.
And although that's true withwriting, obviously I think it's
less true because you're sayingwords and in theory, we all have
a understanding of what eachword means interesting, and so
(22:56):
you've been writing books now,for I mean, your first book was
the metropolis case that'scorrect.
colleyc (23:02):
Yes, and then you had one that just came out called
gods hashtag gods yeah and arethose your two books that you've
put out, matt?
Matt Gallaway (23:11):
yeah, those are the two novels and I I tend to
be a pretty slow writer, sofingers crossed, there will be
another one at some point nottoo distant future.
Great.
colleyc (23:21):
I heard that you like writing in airports.
That's your.
Matt Gallaway (23:24):
I do like writing in airports, I write, I'll
write anywhere.
I mean some people, you knowI'm always kind of laughing
because people will be like, oh,I had to go to a writing
retreat and you know, spend sixmonths in the mountains just to
be able to write something, andI felt like I never had that
luxury and mean I wouldn't minddoing that.
(23:46):
But you know there's like jobsand you know the rest of life
quite um finesse, that uh, thatkind of mode of writing.
colleyc (23:59):
So yeah, I I'm good at writing pretty much anywhere
right and prolific, I would say,and I just wanted to touch on
too, I mean, your latest kind ofmusical outlet.
Um, you put a ton out on youryoutube channel.
Um are these songs like?
Can you talk to us a little bitabout what, what your purpose
is with death culture at sea?
Matt Gallaway (24:20):
like yeah yeah, I mean I had sort of started
recording a little bit in thelike the early 2010s and with
like garage band or whatever,just because it was.
You know, I thought it was funto keep to keep my fingers in it
.
But then I I sort of took a fewyears off and I wasn't really
(24:42):
thinking about it too much.
But when the pandemic started Iwas like I want to learn like a
real recording, you know,online studio, um.
So that's what I did and I it'sbeen great because I feel like
(25:02):
it's given me a moresophisticated understanding of
the recording process and youknow, I'm having fun writing the
songs and what's nice about asong to me, as opposed to a
novel, is like a song takes me afew weeks, you know, from start
to finish and it's uh.
(25:24):
And then what I've done is, um,we did last summer I got
together in vermont with miked'onofrio and matt cadane, who
is, you know, of bedhead in newyear fame and he's an
unbelievably good drummer, andso he played drums and Mike
(25:45):
played bass and I just I did theguitar parts and the singing
and that was like so much fun,just to like go into a studio a
few days and and and record afew songs.
We're going to do it again thissummer, which is exciting,
that's so cool?
colleyc (26:03):
Is it again this summer , which is exciting.
That's so cool is is there apotential of these sessions
amalgamating into something thatyou might share with the world?
Matt Gallaway (26:11):
well, I mean there are, they're on youtube.
I I don't really do I don't putout music these days with any
expectation that there will be arecord or anything like that.
But I mean, if somebody came tome and they're like, oh, I want
to put out a record, I'm surethat we would be, we meaning me
(26:31):
I'd be happy to talk to them.
But that's not really what it'sabout for me.
I just love creating the songs,putting them out there, and you
know it is nice because I meanone of the things you asked
about, I think in your questionyou had a question about like
connecting with people still doget random notes from people who
(26:58):
talk about how they likedSaturnine and how Saturnine
music meant something to them,and they or they're checking out
death culture at sea and theylike that.
So it's nice to have thoseconversations because it just
even if it's on a very smallscale, it just means that you
(27:18):
know like the art is having likean impact in a in a small way,
and that, to me, is enough.
You know it.
The art is having like animpact in a in a small way and
that, to me, is enough.
You know it.
It just it makes me feel goodthat I spent all of those years
kind of learning, learning toplay music and learning about
the craft and sort of likefinding my way through the
community.
It's like I feel like I'm stillpart of it, even in a small way
(27:41):
.
So Like I feel like I'm stillpart of it, even in a small way,
so that's a nice feeling.
colleyc (27:45):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, I mean, you have fans outthere, that's for sure.
I'm an avid fan of Saturn 9.
And I'm really enjoying thedeath culture at sea.
There's some attachments to theSaturn 9 that I'm getting from
it, but also these new avenuesthat you're opening up, and it's
(28:06):
just so nice to hear you singagain.
Thank you, I just I've alwaysloved your voice and the way you
play guitar and the way youwrite songs.
And preparing for this, I mean,I pulled the whole catalog out,
matt, I'm telling you on replay.
(28:27):
I want to thank you for this,and something that you said
really is sticks with me and andit meant something a lot saying
that once you create thesethings, they're out there, the
world has access to them andthey take them for what they
want it and leave what theydon't want.
I mean again, we we don'tcontrol this as artists, but I
(28:47):
love that your music will alwaysbe out there and that my kids
will experience it.
And actually my son came overtoday and I was blaring um
american kestrel because it's myfavorite, and he's's like dad,
have you played this for mebefore?
And I'm like, of course I have.
And he's like, oh, yeah, Ireally like this.
(29:07):
So it has this universalattachment to to people that Age
doesn't really matter, you knowlike it connects to people's
heart and their soul and theirfeelings, and I'm just so happy
that you you had thoseexperiences and that you're
continuing it.
(29:27):
I feel that we're grateful tohave your art in the world, matt
so.
Matt Gallaway (29:31):
I want to thank you for that, and what you're
doing is equally important too.
I mean, I'm a big fan.
I mean I'm a compulsive bloggerand I've been doing that for
almost 20 years, so I appreciatewhat you're doing too, and I
know it's a lot of work.
So you know, thank you forreaching out.
colleyc (29:50):
Yeah Well, it's been a real pleasure, and I mean
getting to meet some of my alltime fan artists.
Is is such a treat for me, andI'm glad I have this platform
also so that I can make yourvoices heard and and memorialize
, you know, in a sense, thatmaybe we'll listen to this 20
years from now and be like oh,those are some cool stories
(30:11):
about Saturn.
Nine like that maybe weren'tout there, but now we can get
them out there because theydeserve being listened to.
Matt Gallaway (30:18):
So exactly yes, well, thank you very much.
colleyc (30:21):
Well, thank you very much.
Well, thank you, matt, and allthe best.
And um well, let's keep intouch, cause I just I think this
can be a part two down the roadsomewhere.
Matt Gallaway (30:30):
Um, I have so many more questions to chat with
you, but it's been a realpleasure, so thank you, thank
you.
We remember.
(31:28):
Please remember to shelter whenyou're old.
Soon enough, the day will end,the fever will break, the colors
(31:57):
will blend.
Once had the power to win, nowto reckon with the sin, and we
(32:21):
were right to go away.
And we were right to go away.
And we were right to go away.
colleyc (32:58):
I'm running backwards, facing coward In my soul.
We remember this feeling whenyou're home, only when the
(33:45):
memories remain Leaving tracesof who we've been, only when the
memories remain Leaving tracesof who we've been.
(34:16):
Guitar solo, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!