September 22, 2025 • 27 mins
From scribbled journal entries to a critically acclaimed debut album on Merge Records, Casey Gomez Walker's artistic evolution is a testament to creative fluidity and unexpected paths. The frontwoman of Casey Oats opens up about how her background in creative writing led to songwriting only after college, when a gifted guitar from a friend revealed music's accessibility.
"I was having a really bad time when I was like 22, 23. I was sick, sad. My best friend found this cheap electric guitar and picked it up for me when I was sick... it made me realize playing guitar was much easier than I thought." This pivotal moment sparked a musical journey that would eventually culminate in "The Last Missouri Exit," an album Casey describes as "accidentally" capturing the coming-of-age novel she'd been trying to write.
Casey's approach to creativity defies conventional boundaries—she doesn't separate songwriting from other forms of expression, instead collecting phrases, images, and character ideas that eventually find their perfect medium. Her partnership with Spencer Tweedy proved transformative, both personally and artistically. "When I met Spencer, it opened up this... he has lived his whole life knowing that you can make art and it can mean something to a lot of people," she reflects, crediting him with helping her embrace her identity as a musician.
The album's creation was unhurried and organic, with basic tracks recorded in a friend's basement and overdubs added as time allowed. After nearly a year of cold-emailing labels, Merge Records recognized the finished album's brilliance. Now touring with notable acts like Lucius and Superchunk while developing their second record, Casey finds particular joy in hearing how listeners connect with her music: "Having it released and everyone else experiencing it and then holding it back up to you is so cool... that they can relate to it and have the same emotional experience is really special."
Ready to discover your next favorite album? Listen to Casey Oats' "The Last Missouri Exit" and experience the distinctive voice and storytelling that's captivating audiences everywhere.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Case Oats (00:00):
Living in a teenage dream, but forever Barn parties
and whiskey till the morning,hiding on a hill Center of the
world Before your parents gotdivorced.
(00:23):
I used to feel things whensomething back then, the magic
ran dry and the letters neversent.
Think about how much you didn'tknow.
Chris (00:37):
Here we are back with you season six, chugging along
Tamri.
Here I'm reaching down to theStates.
I'm in Canada, quebec, and I amgoing down to Illinois.
Is that correct, casey?
Casey (00:52):
Yes, I'm in Chicago.
Chris (00:55):
Yep, and I have Casey Gomez Walker from Case Oats
coming in to talk about her newrecord, the Last Missouri Exit.
That came out August 22nd ofthis year on Merge Records A
fantastic record.
I was just saying before wehopped on here that this is like
a no-skip record for me.
Anyway, one song into the nextis just outstanding.
(01:18):
So I was very happy to getpresents here today and I so
excited to start our call.
So, Casey, thank you for such agreat record.
There's just like country butalso soul to it, which are hard
to find that combo together attimes.
(01:39):
But I really, really impressedby the writing and the lyricism
is just out of this world.
Which brings me to my firstquestion.
Read that you did a degree increative writing.
Is that an accurate statement?
Casey (01:54):
That is an accurate statement.
Yeah, my, my undergrad degreeis from Columbia College,
Chicago, in creative writing.
So, yeah, studied creativewriting.
Do as much of it as I can.
Chris (02:06):
Right, and what brought you to that kind of thinking
back as you were growing up,like were you always interested
in in playing around with wordsand I think.
Casey (02:17):
I mean, I think I was always interested in music.
I was at first interested inand I'm so sorry, my dog is
barking.
I guess you can cut that out ifyou need to, or whatever.
Yeah, but yeah, no, I think myinterest was always, you know I
I loved music more than anything.
I loved visual art.
I loved, like any art I couldget my hands on.
(02:39):
I wasn't like a hundred percentdrawn towards writing.
You know, I read a lot of likeStephen King and little school
just like liked it.
But it wasn't really till I gotto high school that I like I
was into journalism, I was intoradio storytelling, so like I
was like this American life waslike a big one for me.
But then I kind of I took a, afiction writing class in high
(03:02):
school and that kind of made merealize like, oh sure, of course
this makes sense.
And I actually went intocollege thinking I was just
going to do journalism with somefiction writing courses.
And then once I got into, youknow, the creative writing,
fiction writing world, I waslike this is what makes the most
sense for me.
Chris (03:23):
And when did songwriting walk in the door?
Casey (03:28):
Not till way later, not till after I graduated college.
I was writing short stories,trying to write a novel, you
know, until well after collegeand I was writing a lot of
poetry and I've always beenreally into the idea of writing
a story with like the leastamount of words possible and it
(03:50):
never really clicked to me thatthat's what song I mean.
I knew that that's whatsongwriting did, but I never
thought of myself as someone whowould do that.
And I wasn't.
I had a guitar but I wasn'tplaying it.
And then my I was having areally bad time when I was, like
I don't know, 22, 23.
I was sick, sad.
My best friend found this cheapelectric guitar and he went and
(04:12):
picked it up for me when I wassick and brought it to me and it
made me realize that playingguitar was much easier than I
thought.
And we kind of startedsongwriting together and we kind
of started wrong songwritingtogether and it just like opened
up this brain space that Ihadn't really been in, that like
I could apply the poetry that Ihad been writing in short
stories into song.
Chris (04:35):
And you were inspired by something that you want to put
down on paper, like, also like.
Were you able, as you weregetting older, to start to say,
okay, that could be a songversus that could be something
journal?
Yeah, no, I don't.
Casey (04:51):
I've never.
Still to this day, I don'tdifferentiate.
I kind of just keep a lot ofjournals.
I keep a lot of notes in myphone's phone with really just
phrases or images that come tome, or a character even, and
these days I'm mainlysongwriting.
So it's in my head that it'sprobably going to go into a song
(05:12):
rather than something else.
But I've never really drawn theline of like okay, I'm going to
sit down and write this for asong rather than it maybe goes
somewhere else.
Very fluid.
Chris (05:24):
Right, and did you find that once you started playing
guitar more, rather than itmaybe goes somewhere else Very
fluid, right?
And did you find that once youstarted playing guitar more,
that you were getting more andmore inspired in songwriting and
in that process of songwriting?
Casey (05:36):
Yeah, I think, like once I fully wrote my first song,
which was Bluff, which is thelast song on the album, a long
time ago now, and I had just metSpencer at the time too, and he
was the one who kind of waslike, yeah, duh, anyone can
write music.
I hadn't come from that worldand I was like, oh, this is true
(05:56):
, yeah.
So I think once I sat down andfully wrote a song, I started
thinking about guitar more.
I always write lyrics first andmusic second, so I still am
always thinking about wordsfirst, but I do think, obviously
, about melody or the way I wantit to sound, or what sound is
(06:16):
inspiring me, whether that beanother record or just an idea
of a melody.
Chris (06:24):
Can you talk a little bit , casey, about your process?
How does an idea or a of amelody and talk a little bit
about your process?
Like how does an idea or aphrase, as you alluded to you
might get on your phone orcapture this, you know phrasing
how does that evolve intosomething like do you like
what's your process?
Are you normally like an earlyriser and you like to do it, you
know, for an hour a day?
Casey (06:44):
or like yeah, I wish I've always wanted to be someone who
wakes up and writes every daylike it's a job, and I hope
someday I will be.
I don't have very gooddiscipline right now.
It's really I I try and keep asmuch little pieces all together
in notebooks and my phone and sothat when it comes to the time
(07:07):
of like I feel like sitting downand writing a song, I have
things to do to back it up.
I'm not starting from scratch,but I I'm not disciplined with
sitting down and writing.
It just kind of happens.
When it happens, there'ssometimes where I pick up the
guitar for literally a couple ofseconds I start and sometimes I
(07:27):
mumble, sing when I'm playingguitar and that is puts me in a
weird, a weird trancy head statethat I can kind of get some
stuff out.
But a lot of times recentlySpencer and I write together and
when we do that I will kind oflay out notebooks or lay out
whatever ideas I have and kindof say to him like you know,
(07:48):
he's a much better guitar playerthan I am.
You know, I have this sound inmind for this type of melody
that sounds like this and it'sabout this, and we're kind of
able to sit in and totally pickaway at it like a piece of
marble or something.
Chris (08:04):
And when did when did your relationship start with
spencer?
Like I had read that most ofthese songs that you would that
are on the your first lp areolder songs in the sense that
you would never put them down onon tape.
Casey (08:17):
But yeah, they do have some legs to them in the sense
that you've been playing themfor a while yeah, I mean, a lot
of these songs were written, youknow, probably 2017, 2018, you
know, in their most basic form,not in the same way that you're
hearing it on the record, but,yeah, a lot of them I had
written by myself or they werehalfway written and Spencer
(08:41):
helped me write a chorus orhelped me realize the bridge
that I was trying to think of.
Yeah, so it was collaborative,even though a lot of the songs I
you know had started before Imet him or, you know, had
written by myself or whatever itmay be.
Chris (08:59):
And before the band came together, how were you
performing?
How were you getting your musicout there?
In my deep dive because I loveto get prepared for these
conversations I didn't reallyever find any other of your
songs out there that you mighthave done in the past.
There was nothing Beforeactually getting together with
(09:21):
the band and saying, hey, let'sput these down.
Casey (09:23):
Nothing.
Yeah, it happened, you know,with them.
I I played in a garage rockband that never really played
new performances or recordedanything for less than a year,
and then I was just kind ofstarting to write my own songs
when I met Spencer, and it veryquickly I played with a band
(09:44):
right away, which was likebecause someone had someone that
we kind of knew had heard Bluffonline and asked if I wanted to
play a show, and I totally liedand said that I had a band and
I had other songs and I didn't.
But I I took that as motivationto get it all together and do
it.
And then that's how we put ourfirst show and it just kind of
(10:07):
went from there.
Chris (10:08):
Nice and how did you meet Spencer?
If you don't mind me asking,what was the situation that
brought you guys to Cross?
Casey (10:16):
I messaged him on Instagram.
It's a modern-day love story.
We had mutual friends and Iknew that he was through Chicago
a lot.
He wasn't living in Chicago atthe time and, yeah, we hung out
and it just was kind ofinseparable once we first met
each other.
Chris (10:35):
Yeah, and was the idea too, like right from the get go
like hey, you know, I got allthese songs that I have.
I'd love to show them to you.
Casey (10:45):
No, not even, Cause I didn't have that much.
I think that I showed him acouple of songs you know really
rough recordings from the band Iwas playing in before.
That was like totally doesn'tsound anything like the music
I'm making now, but I thinkthere was like maybe in the back
of both of our heads that wewere going like obviously we
(11:06):
would make some sort of arttogether Because that was both
of our lives.
You know whatever that meant.
But it happened pretty quicklythat we started making music
together.
Chris (11:16):
And how did this record come together?
I mean, it's very interestingLike you're saying that Bluff is
quite an olduff is such a greatsong on top, like choose what
songs that you were going to putdown on tape.
Like how did this assembly cometogether?
Casey (11:33):
It was, so I didn't think about it too hard, to be honest
I mean, there's not a supergood answer for it, because it
was the songs that I had.
It was like, okay, I've got 11songs or 10 songs or whatever,
(11:53):
let's track them.
There was no cutting, like wejust tracked the 10 songs.
And I really, honestly, untilwe finished it probably not
until we were done mixing itthat I listened to it in
succession and was like, oh,this all makes sense together.
This is a full story, like I.
I totally.
I did it unintentionally, butit's also, of course it makes
(12:13):
sense.
It's that way because it's thethemes that I had been focused
on in writing and thinking about.
So it's not completely random,but I had never thought of it as
like a thematic album until itwas completely done.
Chris (12:27):
And now, like kind of looking back on it, do you see
how it has this kind of leavingof and coming to a new?
Case Oats (12:36):
Oh yeah.
Chris (12:36):
A hundred percent yeah.
Casey (12:38):
Yeah, and I mean the joke I've been making is that I
intended to write a novel aboutwhat the record's about and I
accidentally made a record andit's it's.
It's been, it's been a triplike listening to other people
talk about it and it's like, oh,this is like that's what I was
trying to do when I was tryingto sit down and write this
coming of age novel and it'stotally almost all there in the
(13:02):
album without even me realizingit.
And yeah, it's reallyinteresting to see your, your
art reflected back onto whenother people talk about it.
And also, like I get somethingnew each time I listen to the
record that like it's like oh,wow, that fits with this in a
way that I hadn't thought aboutbefore.
Chris (13:21):
Whatever it may be, Did it take a long time to record or
was it pretty quick?
The whole process.
Casey (13:28):
It was long just because we took our time with it.
We tracked all of the basics intwo days.
We just did it in our friendsand bandmates' basement at the
time they lived in a house andthen Spencer and I added all of
the overdubs over time.
So like vocals we tracked inour our condo at the time and
(13:49):
then we tracked it at a studioand we just kind of did it as we
had time in between Spencertouring and in between I was
working a full-time job.
So it was like we just kind ofdid it when we could.
And then there was a pointwhere we were like, okay, let's
buckle down, finish mixing, getthis mastered.
Chris (14:07):
And then you know well, mastering came after the record
deal, but yeah, and was thisSpencer's first dive into
production side is like being inthe band but also doing the
production side of it.
Casey (14:22):
He has done stuff with our friend Henry True before.
They've done a good amount ofstuff together where he's kind
of producing it and also, youknow, drumming.
But I would say probably maybeI couldn't tell you because I'm
not sure if he fully producedHenry's records, but I would say
it's like maybe the first likefull-fledged, where he was
(14:45):
definitely producing engineering, you know mixing, doing it all.
Him you know doing it all.
Chris (14:52):
Yeah and I want to just clarify that so you would bring
the lyrics in, you would havekind of an idea of a melody and
then the two of you togetherwould sit down and like actually
flush it out further.
Was that kind of how?
Casey (15:07):
you Some of the songs.
Some of them were totally doneby the time I brought them to
Spencer.
That would be like 17.
I kind of I wrote totally on myown Kentucky cave.
But you know there was othersongs where they were pretty
much done but I just knew theyneeded a bridge or a more catchy
chorus and I would bring them.
And then there's some songs wewrote totally together,
(15:29):
bitterroot Lake being one whereit was just like I had written a
lot of you know, had the idea,written down some lyrics, and we
just kind of sat down and thenbanged it out.
Chris (15:40):
So I mean August 22nd this.
This record came out on recordWas that a complicated process
to get picked up by a label, ordid it go pretty seamlessly?
Casey (15:51):
I wouldn't say it was complicated, but it's, it's
trying.
You know, we sent it's.
It's cold emailing.
We sent out a ton of emails tolabels and a lot of not hearing
back, a lot of hearing back andthey don't have the space or
it's not the right fit orwhatever it may be.
So that was almost a year ofjust doing that and then,
(16:12):
luckily, we we heard back frommerch and they were, they were
interested in like the sound,and you know, of course, the
process of of then figuring outstuff with them took another
long while sure, but it's been agood relationship so far, like
oh, yeah, a lot of the musicjust you guys to take care of oh
(16:32):
, 100.
I mean the album was completelydone by the time that we had.
They had heard it and they, youknow, didn't.
They were like didn't have anychanges or anything, and they're
all extremely awesome people.
We love working with them.
It's like, not like.
I think some people have alittle bit of an archaic idea of
like what it means to work witha label, and it's just not that
(16:53):
.
It's like.
It feels like working withfriends and people who get it.
Chris (16:57):
I care about you.
There's a personal connection.
There's a personal connectionand how is coming into Spencer's
world influenced or affectedyour trajectory?
Can you talk to that?
Casey (17:16):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just like, like I said
earlier is that I mean there'snever been any pressure at all.
I mean, when Spencer met me, Ionly identified as a writer and
like thought that that's all Iwas going to do.
I'm sorry my cat is now tryingto get in on this, but I think
the main.
Whenever you get on a Zoom call,all the pets have to be
(17:37):
involved, oh my goodness.
But yeah, when I met Spencer, Ithink it opened up this.
He is so open to doing thingsand also has lived his whole
life knowing that, like, you canmake art and it can mean
something to a lot of people.
Because of his dad and becauseof what he had done with Mavis
or whatever it may be, of like,of course, you can do it, you
(18:01):
know where it.
Just I hadn't met anyone whowas like that.
Really in my life I knew a lotof my dad plays music.
I know a lot of people who playmusic but still worked a
full-time job or did whatever Ijust I mean, really up until the
last couple years I was likethere's no way you can just make
music or just make art.
(18:21):
It's just like it's it's crazyto think about.
But I think that, like Spenceris really committed and he views
it as as a job and a commitmentand like seeing that really
helped me figure out how toapproach it and like realize,
like yeah, I can do it.
And like him saying to myselfor saying to me like yeah, you
(18:42):
are a musician, like you arewriting music, like it helps
about with the.
What do you call it, I don'tknow, but I, you know, not being
able to see myself yet as fullyrealized, maybe those shutters
up from you start to yes, really, I mean, that's definitely a
(19:04):
lot of what he's done for me andkind of in in retrospect, kind
of looking back at the record.
Chris (19:10):
It's been out for almost a month.
What's your feeling about it?
How do you, how do you feelit's been received by the public
?
And you know, what do you in inin talk about, about, oh, I
didn't think they would thinkthat, or oh, I saw that, or like
, what are your reflections inthe post?
Kind of release date.
Casey (19:30):
Oh, it's amazing.
It's my favorite part.
It's really insane to have tolike be working on this very
solitary thing of of making arecord or writing something and
sitting with it for so long andto have it released and everyone
else experiencing it and thenholding it back up to you is
(19:52):
like it's so cool and hearinglike you know how people are.
You know they may be notexperienced the exact same
things as me, but that they canrelate to it and have the same
emotional experience with it isreally special.
I was talking to someoneyesterday and we were saying
like, of course, like therecords that mean the most to
you, you didn't have the sameexperience.
(20:14):
I wasn't, you know, goingthrough what Bob Dylan went
through when I was listening tothose records and when I was in
middle school or whatever, butyou still relate to it and the
emotional nature.
But it's.
It's been a dream, the way it'sbeen perceived.
I think people get it.
I think people understand whatI was trying to do or what I did
, what we did.
(20:35):
I think my favorite part ispeople talking about my voice.
I think it's.
It's it's fun, it's sometimesit's upsetting, but it's also
like a great motivator and it'sjust like you know, it's got to
keep doing my thing, so thankyou.
Chris (20:52):
It's like nobody else sounds like you, and I mean that
in the most wonderful way.
Casey (20:58):
No, that is a huge compliment.
Chris (21:08):
And that's what I try for .
Yeah, and I really get thissense too of the collaborative
nature of of your group.
You know the band that it's,that we're all in it together.
I'll bring some lyrics, but youguys bring all these other
components on and it's reallykind of like a group effort.
It feels like.
Casey (21:19):
Yeah yeah, I mean there's with with max and jason are our
guitarist and steel player andour bass player.
There you know everything thatwe've ever brought to them.
We just give them the idea orplay the acoustic guitar part
and they just absolutely rip itout and, like I'm always like no
notes sounds great.
I love a first draft.
I don't have many iterations ofthings we've done and you know,
(21:43):
of course, we're playing thingsa little bit differently now
than when we first wrote them,but yeah, it's always been like
that works, like, of course, andI'm also very lucky that
they're amazing musicians andcan quickly understand a vision
and get it.
Yeah.
Chris (22:00):
I'm a musician but I envy people.
Oh, I can't.
Yeah, I hear the cure one timeand like yeah, yeah, here we go,
you know, or whatever.
You know, it's just it's crazy.
Casey (22:10):
Yeah, I'd say that is not the type of musician I am
either, but it's fun to bearound yeah, I I really
appreciate those and they'regood people to have on your side
.
Chris (22:22):
Oh yeah, they add these whole other ideas.
Casey (22:25):
Oh yeah, it's a different .
It's a completely differentworld than it would be if it was
just me or whatever, Totally.
Chris (22:31):
Well, Casey, this has been really fun I really like
your story and I'm just in lovewith this record.
I'll tell you that.
Casey (22:38):
Thank you so much.
Chris (22:39):
It's going to be one of my favorite of the year.
I know already.
I just feel it.
What's coming down the pipe?
What can we anticipate with KSO?
It's coming down.
Are you headed out on tour?
A new record coming out, I knowthat you have plans of 2020.
Casey (22:59):
Yeah, we're, we're about to hit the road with um lucius
and then super chunk.
So that's all of october andwe've got those dates and then a
couple couple things coming out, coming up not out in the in
the new year definitely moretour dates, more more road
hitting.
And yeah, I'm, I'm ready to to,to get on with the second
(23:22):
record.
So I'm certain I are working onit one more, and when we're
both home and when we can andand in those quiet moments I was
speaking with somebodyyesterday, a field medic, kevin
sullivan.
Chris (23:34):
He was saying that he loves going on the road because
it's a 24-hour job.
You work one hour, you knowlike.
So he's like there's a lot ofhours in there to just sit and
doodle and and yeah, you knowyou're around the band anyway,
so you have like, hey, throw alead in there, or so yeah it's.
Casey (23:51):
It's quite inspiring to to get out there too, because
that's what you're doing yeah,and you're only thinking about
music it's, it's this will be myfirst long run ever, so I'm
excited to see how it pans outfor me well I wish you all the
best.
Chris (24:07):
Congrats on this record again thank you so much last
missouri exit.
It's on bandcamp, it's onrecords.
You can get it.
Go check a show out.
I'm envious of all the peoplethat get to go and watch you,
but maybe one day you'll head upto montreal.
I mean, there's I'm sure wewill.
Casey (24:23):
I'm sure we will.
There's a lot of good Canadianfriends, so we'll make our way
back up there.
Chris (24:27):
Awesome, well, thanks so much, casey, this has been a
real treat yeah.
Casey (24:30):
I appreciate you Best on the tour.
Thanks.
Case Oats (24:36):
One, two, three, four .
I got you from a postcard, gota bad start, couldn't be far,
got a good heart.
You were still there and Istill cared.
I remember, tried to be fair.
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
(25:02):
I can see now You're on theback of barstools, jukebox picks
, camping trips.
I didn't stick In corners, Isaw you, I felt you.
I always knew Nora Nora, nora.
(25:23):
Glad you are here now.
Nora, nora, nora, glad you arehere now.
I can see now.
(25:52):
No run, no run, no run.
Glad you are here now.
No run, no run, no run.
Glad you are here now.
I can see you now.
Forget my name, forget my name,forget my name.
(26:16):
Guess I'll leave you atStarcrossed.
I came and went, moved away astime bent.
Should have called you, shouldhave told him, should have told
you.
I always knew.
Nora Nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
(26:43):
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
I can see now.
Living in a teenage dream, but forever Barn parties
and whiskey till the morning,hiding on a hill Center of the
world Before your parents gotdivorced.
(00:23):
I used to feel things whensomething back then, the magic
ran dry and the letters neversent.
Think about how much you didn'tknow.
Chris (00:37):
Here we are back with you season six, chugging along
Tamri.
Here I'm reaching down to theStates.
I'm in Canada, quebec, and I amgoing down to Illinois.
Is that correct, casey?
Casey (00:52):
Yes, I'm in Chicago.
Chris (00:55):
Yep, and I have Casey Gomez Walker from Case Oats
coming in to talk about her newrecord, the Last Missouri Exit.
That came out August 22nd ofthis year on Merge Records A
fantastic record.
I was just saying before wehopped on here that this is like
a no-skip record for me.
Anyway, one song into the nextis just outstanding.
(01:18):
So I was very happy to getpresents here today and I so
excited to start our call.
So, Casey, thank you for such agreat record.
There's just like country butalso soul to it, which are hard
to find that combo together attimes.
(01:39):
But I really, really impressedby the writing and the lyricism
is just out of this world.
Which brings me to my firstquestion.
Read that you did a degree increative writing.
Is that an accurate statement?
Casey (01:54):
That is an accurate statement.
Yeah, my, my undergrad degreeis from Columbia College,
Chicago, in creative writing.
So, yeah, studied creativewriting.
Do as much of it as I can.
Chris (02:06):
Right, and what brought you to that kind of thinking
back as you were growing up,like were you always interested
in in playing around with wordsand I think.
Casey (02:17):
I mean, I think I was always interested in music.
I was at first interested inand I'm so sorry, my dog is
barking.
I guess you can cut that out ifyou need to, or whatever.
Yeah, but yeah, no, I think myinterest was always, you know I
I loved music more than anything.
I loved visual art.
I loved, like any art I couldget my hands on.
(02:39):
I wasn't like a hundred percentdrawn towards writing.
You know, I read a lot of likeStephen King and little school
just like liked it.
But it wasn't really till I gotto high school that I like I
was into journalism, I was intoradio storytelling, so like I
was like this American life waslike a big one for me.
But then I kind of I took a, afiction writing class in high
(03:02):
school and that kind of made merealize like, oh sure, of course
this makes sense.
And I actually went intocollege thinking I was just
going to do journalism with somefiction writing courses.
And then once I got into, youknow, the creative writing,
fiction writing world, I waslike this is what makes the most
sense for me.
Chris (03:23):
And when did songwriting walk in the door?
Casey (03:28):
Not till way later, not till after I graduated college.
I was writing short stories,trying to write a novel, you
know, until well after collegeand I was writing a lot of
poetry and I've always beenreally into the idea of writing
a story with like the leastamount of words possible and it
(03:50):
never really clicked to me thatthat's what song I mean.
I knew that that's whatsongwriting did, but I never
thought of myself as someone whowould do that.
And I wasn't.
I had a guitar but I wasn'tplaying it.
And then my I was having areally bad time when I was, like
I don't know, 22, 23.
I was sick, sad.
My best friend found this cheapelectric guitar and he went and
(04:12):
picked it up for me when I wassick and brought it to me and it
made me realize that playingguitar was much easier than I
thought.
And we kind of startedsongwriting together and we kind
of started wrong songwritingtogether and it just like opened
up this brain space that Ihadn't really been in, that like
I could apply the poetry that Ihad been writing in short
stories into song.
Chris (04:35):
And you were inspired by something that you want to put
down on paper, like, also like.
Were you able, as you weregetting older, to start to say,
okay, that could be a songversus that could be something
journal?
Yeah, no, I don't.
Casey (04:51):
I've never.
Still to this day, I don'tdifferentiate.
I kind of just keep a lot ofjournals.
I keep a lot of notes in myphone's phone with really just
phrases or images that come tome, or a character even, and
these days I'm mainlysongwriting.
So it's in my head that it'sprobably going to go into a song
(05:12):
rather than something else.
But I've never really drawn theline of like okay, I'm going to
sit down and write this for asong rather than it maybe goes
somewhere else.
Very fluid.
Chris (05:24):
Right, and did you find that once you started playing
guitar more, rather than itmaybe goes somewhere else Very
fluid, right?
And did you find that once youstarted playing guitar more,
that you were getting more andmore inspired in songwriting and
in that process of songwriting?
Casey (05:36):
Yeah, I think, like once I fully wrote my first song,
which was Bluff, which is thelast song on the album, a long
time ago now, and I had just metSpencer at the time too, and he
was the one who kind of waslike, yeah, duh, anyone can
write music.
I hadn't come from that worldand I was like, oh, this is true
(05:56):
, yeah.
So I think once I sat down andfully wrote a song, I started
thinking about guitar more.
I always write lyrics first andmusic second, so I still am
always thinking about wordsfirst, but I do think, obviously
, about melody or the way I wantit to sound, or what sound is
(06:16):
inspiring me, whether that beanother record or just an idea
of a melody.
Chris (06:24):
Can you talk a little bit , casey, about your process?
How does an idea or a of amelody and talk a little bit
about your process?
Like how does an idea or aphrase, as you alluded to you
might get on your phone orcapture this, you know phrasing
how does that evolve intosomething like do you like
what's your process?
Are you normally like an earlyriser and you like to do it, you
know, for an hour a day?
Casey (06:44):
or like yeah, I wish I've always wanted to be someone who
wakes up and writes every daylike it's a job, and I hope
someday I will be.
I don't have very gooddiscipline right now.
It's really I I try and keep asmuch little pieces all together
in notebooks and my phone and sothat when it comes to the time
(07:07):
of like I feel like sitting downand writing a song, I have
things to do to back it up.
I'm not starting from scratch,but I I'm not disciplined with
sitting down and writing.
It just kind of happens.
When it happens, there'ssometimes where I pick up the
guitar for literally a couple ofseconds I start and sometimes I
(07:27):
mumble, sing when I'm playingguitar and that is puts me in a
weird, a weird trancy head statethat I can kind of get some
stuff out.
But a lot of times recentlySpencer and I write together and
when we do that I will kind oflay out notebooks or lay out
whatever ideas I have and kindof say to him like you know,
(07:48):
he's a much better guitar playerthan I am.
You know, I have this sound inmind for this type of melody
that sounds like this and it'sabout this, and we're kind of
able to sit in and totally pickaway at it like a piece of
marble or something.
Chris (08:04):
And when did when did your relationship start with
spencer?
Like I had read that most ofthese songs that you would that
are on the your first lp areolder songs in the sense that
you would never put them down onon tape.
Casey (08:17):
But yeah, they do have some legs to them in the sense
that you've been playing themfor a while yeah, I mean, a lot
of these songs were written, youknow, probably 2017, 2018, you
know, in their most basic form,not in the same way that you're
hearing it on the record, but,yeah, a lot of them I had
written by myself or they werehalfway written and Spencer
(08:41):
helped me write a chorus orhelped me realize the bridge
that I was trying to think of.
Yeah, so it was collaborative,even though a lot of the songs I
you know had started before Imet him or, you know, had
written by myself or whatever itmay be.
Chris (08:59):
And before the band came together, how were you
performing?
How were you getting your musicout there?
In my deep dive because I loveto get prepared for these
conversations I didn't reallyever find any other of your
songs out there that you mighthave done in the past.
There was nothing Beforeactually getting together with
(09:21):
the band and saying, hey, let'sput these down.
Casey (09:23):
Nothing.
Yeah, it happened, you know,with them.
I I played in a garage rockband that never really played
new performances or recordedanything for less than a year,
and then I was just kind ofstarting to write my own songs
when I met Spencer, and it veryquickly I played with a band
(09:44):
right away, which was likebecause someone had someone that
we kind of knew had heard Bluffonline and asked if I wanted to
play a show, and I totally liedand said that I had a band and
I had other songs and I didn't.
But I I took that as motivationto get it all together and do
it.
And then that's how we put ourfirst show and it just kind of
(10:07):
went from there.
Chris (10:08):
Nice and how did you meet Spencer?
If you don't mind me asking,what was the situation that
brought you guys to Cross?
Casey (10:16):
I messaged him on Instagram.
It's a modern-day love story.
We had mutual friends and Iknew that he was through Chicago
a lot.
He wasn't living in Chicago atthe time and, yeah, we hung out
and it just was kind ofinseparable once we first met
each other.
Chris (10:35):
Yeah, and was the idea too, like right from the get go
like hey, you know, I got allthese songs that I have.
I'd love to show them to you.
Casey (10:45):
No, not even, Cause I didn't have that much.
I think that I showed him acouple of songs you know really
rough recordings from the band Iwas playing in before.
That was like totally doesn'tsound anything like the music
I'm making now, but I thinkthere was like maybe in the back
of both of our heads that wewere going like obviously we
(11:06):
would make some sort of arttogether Because that was both
of our lives.
You know whatever that meant.
But it happened pretty quicklythat we started making music
together.
Chris (11:16):
And how did this record come together?
I mean, it's very interestingLike you're saying that Bluff is
quite an olduff is such a greatsong on top, like choose what
songs that you were going to putdown on tape.
Like how did this assembly cometogether?
Casey (11:33):
It was, so I didn't think about it too hard, to be honest
I mean, there's not a supergood answer for it, because it
was the songs that I had.
It was like, okay, I've got 11songs or 10 songs or whatever,
(11:53):
let's track them.
There was no cutting, like wejust tracked the 10 songs.
And I really, honestly, untilwe finished it probably not
until we were done mixing itthat I listened to it in
succession and was like, oh,this all makes sense together.
This is a full story, like I.
I totally.
I did it unintentionally, butit's also, of course it makes
(12:13):
sense.
It's that way because it's thethemes that I had been focused
on in writing and thinking about.
So it's not completely random,but I had never thought of it as
like a thematic album until itwas completely done.
Chris (12:27):
And now, like kind of looking back on it, do you see
how it has this kind of leavingof and coming to a new?
Case Oats (12:36):
Oh yeah.
Chris (12:36):
A hundred percent yeah.
Casey (12:38):
Yeah, and I mean the joke I've been making is that I
intended to write a novel aboutwhat the record's about and I
accidentally made a record andit's it's.
It's been, it's been a triplike listening to other people
talk about it and it's like, oh,this is like that's what I was
trying to do when I was tryingto sit down and write this
coming of age novel and it'stotally almost all there in the
(13:02):
album without even me realizingit.
And yeah, it's reallyinteresting to see your, your
art reflected back onto whenother people talk about it.
And also, like I get somethingnew each time I listen to the
record that like it's like oh,wow, that fits with this in a
way that I hadn't thought aboutbefore.
Chris (13:21):
Whatever it may be, Did it take a long time to record or
was it pretty quick?
The whole process.
Casey (13:28):
It was long just because we took our time with it.
We tracked all of the basics intwo days.
We just did it in our friendsand bandmates' basement at the
time they lived in a house andthen Spencer and I added all of
the overdubs over time.
So like vocals we tracked inour our condo at the time and
(13:49):
then we tracked it at a studioand we just kind of did it as we
had time in between Spencertouring and in between I was
working a full-time job.
So it was like we just kind ofdid it when we could.
And then there was a pointwhere we were like, okay, let's
buckle down, finish mixing, getthis mastered.
Chris (14:07):
And then you know well, mastering came after the record
deal, but yeah, and was thisSpencer's first dive into
production side is like being inthe band but also doing the
production side of it.
Casey (14:22):
He has done stuff with our friend Henry True before.
They've done a good amount ofstuff together where he's kind
of producing it and also, youknow, drumming.
But I would say probably maybeI couldn't tell you because I'm
not sure if he fully producedHenry's records, but I would say
it's like maybe the first likefull-fledged, where he was
(14:45):
definitely producing engineering, you know mixing, doing it all.
Him you know doing it all.
Chris (14:52):
Yeah and I want to just clarify that so you would bring
the lyrics in, you would havekind of an idea of a melody and
then the two of you togetherwould sit down and like actually
flush it out further.
Was that kind of how?
Casey (15:07):
you Some of the songs.
Some of them were totally doneby the time I brought them to
Spencer.
That would be like 17.
I kind of I wrote totally on myown Kentucky cave.
But you know there was othersongs where they were pretty
much done but I just knew theyneeded a bridge or a more catchy
chorus and I would bring them.
And then there's some songs wewrote totally together,
(15:29):
bitterroot Lake being one whereit was just like I had written a
lot of you know, had the idea,written down some lyrics, and we
just kind of sat down and thenbanged it out.
Chris (15:40):
So I mean August 22nd this.
This record came out on recordWas that a complicated process
to get picked up by a label, ordid it go pretty seamlessly?
Casey (15:51):
I wouldn't say it was complicated, but it's, it's
trying.
You know, we sent it's.
It's cold emailing.
We sent out a ton of emails tolabels and a lot of not hearing
back, a lot of hearing back andthey don't have the space or
it's not the right fit orwhatever it may be.
So that was almost a year ofjust doing that and then,
(16:12):
luckily, we we heard back frommerch and they were, they were
interested in like the sound,and you know, of course, the
process of of then figuring outstuff with them took another
long while sure, but it's been agood relationship so far, like
oh, yeah, a lot of the musicjust you guys to take care of oh
(16:32):
, 100.
I mean the album was completelydone by the time that we had.
They had heard it and they, youknow, didn't.
They were like didn't have anychanges or anything, and they're
all extremely awesome people.
We love working with them.
It's like, not like.
I think some people have alittle bit of an archaic idea of
like what it means to work witha label, and it's just not that
(16:53):
.
It's like.
It feels like working withfriends and people who get it.
Chris (16:57):
I care about you.
There's a personal connection.
There's a personal connectionand how is coming into Spencer's
world influenced or affectedyour trajectory?
Can you talk to that?
Casey (17:16):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just like, like I said
earlier is that I mean there'snever been any pressure at all.
I mean, when Spencer met me, Ionly identified as a writer and
like thought that that's all Iwas going to do.
I'm sorry my cat is now tryingto get in on this, but I think
the main.
Whenever you get on a Zoom call,all the pets have to be
(17:37):
involved, oh my goodness.
But yeah, when I met Spencer, Ithink it opened up this.
He is so open to doing thingsand also has lived his whole
life knowing that, like, you canmake art and it can mean
something to a lot of people.
Because of his dad and becauseof what he had done with Mavis
or whatever it may be, of like,of course, you can do it, you
(18:01):
know where it.
Just I hadn't met anyone whowas like that.
Really in my life I knew a lotof my dad plays music.
I know a lot of people who playmusic but still worked a
full-time job or did whatever Ijust I mean, really up until the
last couple years I was likethere's no way you can just make
music or just make art.
(18:21):
It's just like it's it's crazyto think about.
But I think that, like Spenceris really committed and he views
it as as a job and a commitmentand like seeing that really
helped me figure out how toapproach it and like realize,
like yeah, I can do it.
And like him saying to myselfor saying to me like yeah, you
(18:42):
are a musician, like you arewriting music, like it helps
about with the.
What do you call it, I don'tknow, but I, you know, not being
able to see myself yet as fullyrealized, maybe those shutters
up from you start to yes, really, I mean, that's definitely a
(19:04):
lot of what he's done for me andkind of in in retrospect, kind
of looking back at the record.
Chris (19:10):
It's been out for almost a month.
What's your feeling about it?
How do you, how do you feelit's been received by the public
?
And you know, what do you in inin talk about, about, oh, I
didn't think they would thinkthat, or oh, I saw that, or like
, what are your reflections inthe post?
Kind of release date.
Casey (19:30):
Oh, it's amazing.
It's my favorite part.
It's really insane to have tolike be working on this very
solitary thing of of making arecord or writing something and
sitting with it for so long andto have it released and everyone
else experiencing it and thenholding it back up to you is
(19:52):
like it's so cool and hearinglike you know how people are.
You know they may be notexperienced the exact same
things as me, but that they canrelate to it and have the same
emotional experience with it isreally special.
I was talking to someoneyesterday and we were saying
like, of course, like therecords that mean the most to
you, you didn't have the sameexperience.
(20:14):
I wasn't, you know, goingthrough what Bob Dylan went
through when I was listening tothose records and when I was in
middle school or whatever, butyou still relate to it and the
emotional nature.
But it's.
It's been a dream, the way it'sbeen perceived.
I think people get it.
I think people understand whatI was trying to do or what I did
, what we did.
(20:35):
I think my favorite part ispeople talking about my voice.
I think it's.
It's it's fun, it's sometimesit's upsetting, but it's also
like a great motivator and it'sjust like you know, it's got to
keep doing my thing, so thankyou.
Chris (20:52):
It's like nobody else sounds like you, and I mean that
in the most wonderful way.
Casey (20:58):
No, that is a huge compliment.
Chris (21:08):
And that's what I try for .
Yeah, and I really get thissense too of the collaborative
nature of of your group.
You know the band that it's,that we're all in it together.
I'll bring some lyrics, but youguys bring all these other
components on and it's reallykind of like a group effort.
It feels like.
Casey (21:19):
Yeah yeah, I mean there's with with max and jason are our
guitarist and steel player andour bass player.
There you know everything thatwe've ever brought to them.
We just give them the idea orplay the acoustic guitar part
and they just absolutely rip itout and, like I'm always like no
notes sounds great.
I love a first draft.
I don't have many iterations ofthings we've done and you know,
(21:43):
of course, we're playing thingsa little bit differently now
than when we first wrote them,but yeah, it's always been like
that works, like, of course, andI'm also very lucky that
they're amazing musicians andcan quickly understand a vision
and get it.
Yeah.
Chris (22:00):
I'm a musician but I envy people.
Oh, I can't.
Yeah, I hear the cure one timeand like yeah, yeah, here we go,
you know, or whatever.
You know, it's just it's crazy.
Casey (22:10):
Yeah, I'd say that is not the type of musician I am
either, but it's fun to bearound yeah, I I really
appreciate those and they'regood people to have on your side
.
Chris (22:22):
Oh yeah, they add these whole other ideas.
Casey (22:25):
Oh yeah, it's a different .
It's a completely differentworld than it would be if it was
just me or whatever, Totally.
Chris (22:31):
Well, Casey, this has been really fun I really like
your story and I'm just in lovewith this record.
I'll tell you that.
Casey (22:38):
Thank you so much.
Chris (22:39):
It's going to be one of my favorite of the year.
I know already.
I just feel it.
What's coming down the pipe?
What can we anticipate with KSO?
It's coming down.
Are you headed out on tour?
A new record coming out, I knowthat you have plans of 2020.
Casey (22:59):
Yeah, we're, we're about to hit the road with um lucius
and then super chunk.
So that's all of october andwe've got those dates and then a
couple couple things coming out, coming up not out in the in
the new year definitely moretour dates, more more road
hitting.
And yeah, I'm, I'm ready to to,to get on with the second
(23:22):
record.
So I'm certain I are working onit one more, and when we're
both home and when we can andand in those quiet moments I was
speaking with somebodyyesterday, a field medic, kevin
sullivan.
Chris (23:34):
He was saying that he loves going on the road because
it's a 24-hour job.
You work one hour, you knowlike.
So he's like there's a lot ofhours in there to just sit and
doodle and and yeah, you knowyou're around the band anyway,
so you have like, hey, throw alead in there, or so yeah it's.
Casey (23:51):
It's quite inspiring to to get out there too, because
that's what you're doing yeah,and you're only thinking about
music it's, it's this will be myfirst long run ever, so I'm
excited to see how it pans outfor me well I wish you all the
best.
Chris (24:07):
Congrats on this record again thank you so much last
missouri exit.
It's on bandcamp, it's onrecords.
You can get it.
Go check a show out.
I'm envious of all the peoplethat get to go and watch you,
but maybe one day you'll head upto montreal.
I mean, there's I'm sure wewill.
Casey (24:23):
I'm sure we will.
There's a lot of good Canadianfriends, so we'll make our way
back up there.
Chris (24:27):
Awesome, well, thanks so much, casey, this has been a
real treat yeah.
Casey (24:30):
I appreciate you Best on the tour.
Thanks.
Case Oats (24:36):
One, two, three, four .
I got you from a postcard, gota bad start, couldn't be far,
got a good heart.
You were still there and Istill cared.
I remember, tried to be fair.
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
(25:02):
I can see now You're on theback of barstools, jukebox picks
, camping trips.
I didn't stick In corners, Isaw you, I felt you.
I always knew Nora Nora, nora.
(25:23):
Glad you are here now.
Nora, nora, nora, glad you arehere now.
I can see now.
(25:52):
No run, no run, no run.
Glad you are here now.
No run, no run, no run.
Glad you are here now.
I can see you now.
Forget my name, forget my name,forget my name.
(26:16):
Guess I'll leave you atStarcrossed.
I came and went, moved away astime bent.
Should have called you, shouldhave told him, should have told
you.
I always knew.
Nora Nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
(26:43):
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
Nora, nora, nora, I'm glad youare here now.
I can see now.
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