September 9, 2025 • 33 mins
Ever wonder what keeps a songwriter creating fresh music after four decades? Robert Forster, the legendary co-founder of The Go-Betweens, takes us on a fascinating journey through his musical evolution—from meeting Grant McLennan at Queensland University to recording his latest solo album "Strawberries" with Swedish musicians.
The conversation unfolds like a masterclass in creative persistence. Forster reveals how The Ramones' debut album gave him the confidence to write his first songs, declaring "if they could do it, I could do it"—while artists like Bowie felt too intimidating with their virtuosic musicians. He candidly shares his struggle with the fundamental songwriter's dilemma: how to create something new when there are only so many chords. His solution involves constant experimentation—inverting chords, using capos, exploring different positions on the fretboard—and the patience to play for months until something genuinely fresh emerges.
Most surprisingly, Forster opens up about nearly abandoning music twice when faced with two-year creative droughts. What kept him going? Simply the joy of creation and, later in life, diversifying his creative outlets through music journalism and writing. This multifaceted approach actually revitalized his songwriting, removing the pressure and allowing new perspectives to emerge. The result is what he considers his most consistent body of solo work over the past decade.
"Strawberries," his latest album recorded with members of Peter Bjorn and John, represents this artistic renaissance. Forster speaks about it with rare satisfaction, suggesting he'd be content not to record for several years because "I don't know how I'm going to top that." Beyond music, he shares exciting news about completing his first novel, set for publication in Australia next year.
Want to witness the magic that happens when an Australian indie legend joins forces with Swedish pop sensibilities? Catch Robert Forster on his European tour this September-October, where he'll be performing with the same musicians who brought "Strawberries" to life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
colleyc (00:31):
All right, here we are, If it Be your Will, podcast.
We are at the beginning phasesof season six Season six already
.
I can't believe this journeyhas led me so far yet.
Not far enough yet.
And I'm reaching over to ourAustralian friends in Brisbane.
I have Robert Forster from theGo-Betweens in his solo career,
(00:55):
coming and joining me and we'regoing to talk about Strawberries
, which is his latest release.
But, Robert, first off I wantto just thank you again.
Thanks so much for hopping onhere and sharing some of your
thoughts and experiences with us.
My listeners love gettingprocess questions and how things
(01:17):
evolved and how songwritingworks for you, and I mean I
can't think of any better personto talk about those kinds of
things to than you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
That's very kind of you and Imean I can't think of any better
person to talk about thosekinds of things too.
Robert Forster (01:26):
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
That's very kind of you.
colleyc (01:30):
Well, robert, I guess maybe my first question is and
I've been doing such a deep dive, I'm kind of like overwhelmed
with what your career has beenso far and the experiences that
you've had.
Could you maybe like bring backto us a few of those salient
moments that happened so far inyour career that were kind of
(01:54):
pivotal moments in thedevelopment of not only the
go-betweens but also your ownpersonal solo career as well?
Robert Forster (02:05):
Well, to skip like just through, skip through
it with, I guess, significantmoments.
It would have to be like rightat the start when in the late
70s I met a fellow student atthe Queensland University where
I was studying for an artsdegree, and I met Grant McLennan
(02:26):
, who was also a student there,and we became friends and a
couple of years later we startedthe Go-Betweens and I taught
Grant I just started to play, towrite my first songs, my first
good songs, and I met Grant andwe decided to start a band
together.
And I met Grant and we decidedto start a band together and I
(02:47):
taught him to play the bass andso we started the group.
So that's probably the mostsignificant thing of it all,
really, because without that Idon't know if I would have got a
band together or if anythingwould have gone anywhere.
So it might have just stoppedright back there.
So that's significant.
(03:10):
I think making our first recordLee, remick and Karen that's a
milestone.
I mean, that's just you canstart a band and not make a
record.
But we made a single, probablyour third single.
That was on postcard records.
(03:32):
That sort of got us out intothe world more Like we were in
Glasgow for a short time in 1980, and that was our third single
and that just sort of pushedthings to a broader way.
That was our third single andthat just sort of pushed things
to a broader way.
Right, right, right.
Lindy Morrison joined the bandon drums in 1980, and then us
(03:55):
moving to London in 1982, so weget out of Australia and we make
our second album called BeforeHollywood, which was sort of a
breakthrough record likeinternationally, with a song on
it.
The lead single called Cattleand Cane.
Robert Vickers joined on bass,then Amanda Brown on violin and
(04:20):
oboe and vocals.
We lived in London for fiveyears in the 80s.
The band broke up in 89 inSydney after making six albums
through the 80s.
Then I made my first solo album, danger in the Past.
(04:43):
I recorded more solo albums inthe 90s and got back together
with Grant and I to record inPortland in 2000.
We then made three albums.
colleyc (05:00):
And was Ocean of Parts, your final record that you guys
did together.
That was the final record.
Robert Forster (05:04):
And that was the band then was with Glenn
Thompson and Adele Pickfans, andso they were Such a great
record, such a good record.
Yeah, I mean, I'm very, veryhappy with that album and the
albums that we did before that.
And then in 2006, grant passedaway.
(05:25):
Grant and Clendam died at 48.
I became a music journalist in2005 and I started to write
regularly for a sort ofnationally syndicated magazine
here in Australia.
So I started a career as awriter and I put out a memoir in
(05:51):
Australia.
So I started a career as awriter and I put out a memoir in
2006 called Grant and I, andthen I made my solo career,
started again and I've made fouralbums over the last, released
four albums over the last 10years, which I think is actually
the most consistent body ofwork I've done as a solo artist
(06:15):
and you know I've toured and Iwrite.
They're sort of significantmoments.
colleyc (06:27):
And Robert, what inspired you to first start
penning songs?
Like you met Grant when youguys were in university, right,
like you were in an acting classtogether, yeah, like before
then, what was going on with you, just with music itself?
Like I mean, you were playingguitar.
Were you starting to writesongs at that time as well?
Robert Forster (06:50):
Yes, I was in a band.
I was in a pre-Go-Betweens bandcalled the Goddows and we
started from about 1975 to late77.
We only played three shows andtowards the end of the Goddows I
started to write songs.
And then, right at the very end, I started to write Good Ones,
(07:13):
which is when that I knew that Ihad to stop that band, which
was essentially a covers band,and start a band with my best
friend.
I realized that my songs wereso simple I could teach him, if
he was willing, which Grant wasto play the bass, and I knew
(07:35):
that that was the foundation.
Then that was a band, the twoof us.
colleyc (07:42):
What was it about those first songs too, Robert, that
felt like you were ontosomething that yeah like from
from covers to actually penningyour own tunes.
Where did that start to come toyou that, wow, this is
something that maybe I have aninclination to do.
Did that come once you had metGrant, or was that happening?
Robert Forster (08:06):
before then.
That was before.
Okay, I was.
I think it was self-expression,I think it was.
You know, I only picked up theguitar when I was around 15.
So it wasn't like I was like achild prodigy or something you
know, like I wasn't playingpiano at eight or something.
I think like a big part of it,and this is just one small thing
(08:33):
.
I think the Ramones' first albumin 1976, I heard that pretty
much when it came out and Ithought about writing songs and
I was writing songs.
They were very derivative andnot very good and I just heard
that record and I thought Icould do that it was.
(08:57):
There was no lead guitar, itwas just three chords.
It was just three chords.
The lyrics were quite simpleand personal and a little bit
funny and I just that was like adoor that I could.
It gave me confidence.
(09:18):
If they could make a record, ifthey could write songs, I could
write songs too.
You know, if the Ramones coulddo it, I could do it when.
You know, like things like LedZeppelin or even someone I
really like, like Bowie, was waytoo intimidating and musical
and there was virtuoso musiciansall over it.
(09:40):
It was something to admire, butI couldn't see a way in Right
right.
colleyc (09:48):
And in those early days when you were writing songs,
how would you go about it?
Like, what was your processthat you went through to you?
Know, get an idea to actuallysaying, okay, this is something
that I could record down theroad.
Robert Forster (10:03):
No, it was more, and it still goes right through
to today.
I need to have the music there.
I know I'll always be able towrite a lyric, but the music is
something I really have to workon and to write that I like, and
(10:23):
I want the music to be good.
I don't want it to be soundinglike something I've heard before
.
I want it to have its own stamp, and so I need the music, and
then lyrics will invariably come.
colleyc (10:37):
Great, and is there a way that you, you like, do you
have like a ritual, for startingto come up with a melody?
Or I mean in in reality andI've heard you talk about this
which I find fascinating is thatthere's only a handful of
chords right and there's only,like I remember you, you were
talking on an interview aboutgrant writing, um, um streets
(11:01):
and how it was uh, a D and an Aor something along those lines
and that how are we going tomake this different than all the
other A, A and D songs that areout there?
Yeah, yeah, how did you approachthat kind of like, knowing that
there are only a limited amountof chord structures and chords
that sound well together, toinfusing it with energy and life
(11:26):
and something that people neverheard before?
Robert Forster (11:30):
That's the great question, that's the great
mystery.
There are only a certain amountof notes and a certain amount
of chords, and that used toperplex me all the time and
still does.
It's just getting.
It's a combination.
You're playing chords, but youinvert the chords, you turn them
around, you play them indifferent positions, you write
(11:52):
notes.
You might start a song with justlike, almost like a bass riff
on the acoustic guitar.
There's different tricks thatyou just sort of you might capo,
you know, put a capo on theguitar and suddenly your chord
sounds different.
Right up there's all thesethings where you're trying to
find something new that you'vejust got to dig out of the
guitar and just sort of learningdifferent chords.
(12:15):
I mean, and you know, likemajors and minor sevenths, and
you know sevenths and diminishedchords, all this sort of stuff.
It just helps the palate of.
So it's a real learning processof going through and learning
and listening to other songs andhearing what people do.
(12:38):
There's great mystery to it.
And you just I try every dayand I can play guitar for six
months every day and get nothing, and then I arrive at it one
day and I can tell that I'mhearing something that, at least
to me, sounds new and I getvery excited and that's a way
into a song.
(12:58):
Um, it's a lot of hard work, um, because you know it's.
There's only a certain amountof chords and notes, but you can
dig them out on the guitar onthe piano right, and I mean
looking at your catalog, robert.
colleyc (13:14):
I mean it's, it's incredible the amount of songs
that you've you've written, youknow, starting in 1977, I mean
it's it's incredible what do youdo when you hit that wall of
like?
How do you find that resilienceor the persistence to to keep
pushing, to keep going, to keepsaying, all right, I'm stuck on
(13:36):
this and it's going nowhere?
to hell with it, you know, like,or even after, like the
go-betweens, kind of like, like,why not just say okay, there
was my career, what was?
It inside you that persistenceor that resilience that you
found that this had to be a partof something you did because I
(13:56):
enjoyed it.
Robert Forster (13:57):
Um, you know, pervers, you know, given how
hard it was, and I've come twiceto almost quitting where I
didn't write anything I likedfor two years, and that was in
1980 to 82 and then 1992 to 1994.
And I really did think it wasthe end and I thought I'd burn
(14:19):
out anyway with my limitedmusical skills, sometimes in my
late 40s or 50s.
So I'm quite surprised it keepson going.
I just thought that I'd exhaustthe guitar and I really haven't
.
And it really quite surprisesme.
(14:40):
And I think another thing thatmight have helped me was getting
older and starting to writelike journalism and the memoir
and just sort of.
I just got to the point where Irelaxed with it, I think, and I
just didn't care as much and Ihad something else in my life
(15:05):
creatively and it just sort ofgave the other half a lease of
life.
You know, strangely enough Itook the pressure off myself and
all of these things helped.
And I think also, you know, asyou get older, new feelings come
into your life.
You see things from new anglesand I think you think, oh, you
(15:27):
know, like that would be good tochronicle in songs.
You know, like those songschronicle me when I was 20 or 30
or 40.
I'm still evolving, I'm aging,and so maybe that can.
Somehow I can look at that in acertain way and it can work in
a song.
So all of those things combinedreally.
colleyc (15:49):
Yeah, totally.
So along comes Strawberries.
Now I checked out I mean I'vebeen listening to it a lot.
I just find it's such a happyrecord.
I mean it's just like almostfinding you know of, like folky,
you know, feel that comes alongwith it, which you had talked
(16:25):
about in previous um go-betweensongs, where it just wouldn't
fit.
And then you found this in yoursolo career, which I'm so happy
for.
Yeah, I think to the productionof this has been amazing.
You went to sweden.
You found these kindred soulsthat were so willing to do
(16:47):
anything they could to make thisrecord come out.
Could you tell us a little bitabout how those songs came to be
and then the process of youthen going to sweden and finding
these people that would thenbecome the band that would
record Strawberries?
Robert Forster (17:04):
I wrote these songs, two of the songs I had
for my previous record, theCandle in the Flame, and one of
them was Foolish, I Know, andthe other one was Such a Shame
so they didn't fit on the Candlein the Flame and mood-wise they
just weren't right for that.
(17:24):
And I had enough songs for theCandle in the Flame and so I
started this record.
After Candle in the Flame I hadtwo songs and then I wrote the
others.
Two of them came over the nextlike two years and then I wrote
the last four in about a year.
I had a really bang period,which for me four songs in a
year is incredible.
(17:44):
So the record for a start wasgoing to be recorded this year
actually, but I had eight songsI really loved and so we bought
the recording for a year, themusicians on it and so yeah, and
so the musicians.
(18:05):
This is a long story, but I'dmet Peter Morin from I don't
know if you know about PeterBjorn and John yeah, totally,
and they're a Swedish band and Imet Peter at a music festival
in Australia and we just startedcommunicating and he was a fan
of what I do and I was a fan ofhis and of his band, and then he
(18:31):
invited me over and he put aband together for this tour in
2017, this little Scandinavianthing.
If I was in Europe, he couldput a band together.
It was a beautiful, generousoffer.
He's a lovely person, peter,and so we just did these five
shows and they were just amazing.
You know, I just thought I foundthis band, you know like, and
(18:52):
the two Jonas and Magnus thatPeter chose, which is brilliant,
and it was like I've just beengifted this gorgeous band, and
so from that time, I knew, afterthose six shows, that we had to
do something more, and so ittook us seven years to make the
record.
You know, covid came, obviously, and other things, but it was
(19:15):
just like there's something withthe four of us as musicians.
I'd love us to make a record,and it was just, I think, a
beautiful coincidence that thesesongs fitted them so well.
You know, like I wasn'tnecessarily writing for them,
but I knew that this would beStockholm, I knew that it would
(19:38):
be these players, and I justwanted to go somewhere exotic.
I just wanted to go, I wantedto have an adventure, right.
You know, it's like if I wassitting here and I'm going, I
want to make an album inMontreal, I want to make an
album in Quebec, and I can justimagine that and just arrive for
(19:59):
a month, work with localmusicians and just.
But we had a history becausewe'd toured together and we'd
sort of played.
You know like, when I was twice, when I was in Stockholm
passing through, we actuallyplayed, you know like, did a
show just on the memories ofthat 2017.
(20:21):
We could actually play a set.
We stayed in touch, obviously,and then it was like, okay,
let's do this Right right, itsounds like they totally got you
.
colleyc (20:31):
They got your songs, yeah, and it was almost seamless
.
I saw a couple of videos too.
There was one where you're like, yeah, we've never played this
song before, but just gonna playit yeah, and it was just
beautiful.
I mean, it just seemed like thechemistry was there um yeah,
it's, it's amazing.
Robert Forster (20:49):
You know, like this, the swedes, they're such
good.
You know, like this is broad,talking about them, broadly,
sure, but they're, they're very,you know, it's not that it's
like a rock and roll thing withthem.
You know like they're very.
They've also almost gone tomusic schools or not.
They've played in lots of bands.
They're great historians ofmusic.
(21:11):
But at the same time, what Ilove about Peter and Jonas and
Magnus is that they're also verylucid in the moment, you know,
and they're very creative.
It's not like they're justregurgitating stuff that they
know and it just seems likethey've got a sort of I don't
(21:36):
know like a youthful power andenergy that I think is really
good with me.
colleyc (21:42):
I think it's really Totally I totally see that,
robert, yeah, yeah.
Robert Forster (21:46):
And so I really like that, that they just sort
of take material and just sortof zoom with it.
I think it's really good.
colleyc (21:55):
Yeah, and that pop sensibility too, that I mean you
see a lot of indie pop artistscoming out of Sweden, they just
have that.
Yeah, you know it's hard todescribe in words, but I just
feel too it fits so well withthe way you approach songwriting
as well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert Forster (22:14):
No, they've definitely got that pop thing,
which is something that I'vealways loved, you know like, and
so when I recognize it straightaway, something that I've
always loved, you know like, andso when I recognize it straight
away, it goes right back toearly Gober Twins and stuff that
I've done, but this group ofmusicians just sort of play it
(22:35):
the best you know it's justgreat, yeah, and you've had a
bit of distance since the albumcame out, like is it still
sparking you, is it stillsomething that you feel like wow
, what an accomplishment that wedid.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I honestly youknow I'd be happy not to record
(22:57):
an album for four or five yearsbecause I don't know how I'm
going to top that.
I'm really happy with it andit's like you can be happy with
a record and then two or threeyears' time, or even a year's
time, I want to make another one, where, with this, it's like I
want this to sit.
I really appreciate what thisis, I know what it is and I'm
(23:20):
just happy for it to just sortof ring.
colleyc (23:23):
Absolutely.
I mean you've got some bangerson there.
I mean, tell it back to me.
I mean what a song, uh like,what a song, even strawberries,
just that playful kind of youknow, it's just it kind of keeps
you on your toes and you'rejust happy to listen to the
whole thing.
It's just so good, so good.
(23:43):
So, peter, as we kind of wrapup here again, thanks so much
for this.
I mean your words and yourexperience and knowledge and
history are just such a treat tohear these stories Thank you
Looking onward to 2025, 2026,what do you got on your docket
(24:04):
that you can tell us about?
that might be interesting for usto anticipate.
Robert Forster (24:12):
Two things.
Well, I'm doing a tour with theSwedish band in September
October in Europe UK and Irelandand I'd like to play more with
them definitely.
So we're just sort of going outto play and show people what
we're doing.
That's sort of a part of thisthing as well is to promote the
(24:35):
record.
I really want to play the songs.
I want to take what we've gotwith the Swedish band out of
Sweden and Norway and Denmarkwhere we played, and take it
further.
I'd like to take it all aroundthe world if I could, but we've
(24:55):
got to go out and show peoplewhat we can do.
Maybe there'll be someone willinvite us somewhere, someone
will, sure.
So that's one thing, and thesecond thing is I've written,
I'm really finishing a novelthat I've been working on since
2017.
(25:16):
And that is like right at theend of its process now and I
imagine we'll be coming out atleast firstly in Australia next
year.
You know like it's really close.
I'm working with an editor andwe're like right at the weeks or
(25:37):
even days before it's signedoff.
So that is enormously exciting.
I'm really happy with the book.
This is something I've beenworking on and off for the last
eight years.
It's my first novel, so thereare two things that are before
me that I'm really lookingforward to.
colleyc (25:59):
And the Swedish band.
Is it Peter's, like the bandthat you recorded with?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Robert Forster (26:05):
Yeah, it is for the first six songs Actually.
Then Magnus has to go back to atheatre production, so the
first six shows, which are fromStockholm down to Vienna,
winding down through Berlin,hamburg, copenhagen, dresden,
hamburg, so we get to Vienna andthat's Magnus' last show, and
(26:31):
then he's being replaced by aSwedish drummer, daniel, who is
recommended by the whole threeof them.
It's unfortunate, but Magnus, along time ago, got this theatre
gig that goes on for monthsthat he couldn't turn down,
which I totally understand, andso Daniel's going to be in the
(26:51):
practice room in Stockholm inabout two weeks.
So yeah, so that'll be, but theyassure me that he's really good
and I'm sure he is.
colleyc (27:02):
Right, right, and does the song rating continue on?
And, but they assure me thathe's really good and I'm sure he
is right, right, and and rather, does the song rating continue
on?
Like, is this something thatyou can't just turn off?
Like, are you already thinkingabout other ideas being inspired
?
Robert Forster (27:14):
by different yeah I've written one song since
the album uh, like that's ayear ago.
It it's really really good andit sort of comes out of this
record.
It's about six minutes and it'sreally something different and
(27:35):
big.
But at the moment I've been onthe book and I've been happy to
leave the songwriting.
It's almost like I want to backoff.
This one just popped up and itwas just like and I just sort of
go well, there's a start.
But I've been concentrating onthe book.
I still play guitar, you know,but I'm not really desperate or
(28:00):
searching hard.
But you know, like being backon the road and being with a
guitar in my hands, who knowswhat will happen out on the road
, you know, like that's always agood place where you start to
get ideas, so something mighthappen.
colleyc (28:16):
And being around those inspiring musicians as well,
right, definitely I mean that'skind of amazing.
Definitely, definitely.
Robert Forster (28:21):
Like you know you get a feel for it.
You know like you're in frontof an audience and you're
playing for two hours and youjust have a good time backstage
or in the hotel room and it justyou're around music.
You know it's really in yourlife when you're touring.
It's really, really there withyou, the way it is at home which
(28:44):
can lead to songs, so that'd begood.
Yeah.
colleyc (28:49):
Well, robert, wow, thank you.
I so appreciate your words.
This has been so fun for me.
Robert Forster (28:55):
I hope you've enjoyed this.
colleyc (28:57):
I know Very much Great.
Robert Forster (28:59):
By the way, chris, beautiful questions,
beautiful approach, and it'sbeen a real real pleasure, chris
.
Beautiful questions, beautifulapproach.
Thank you, and it's been a realpleasure, chris, to talk to you
, because I can tell that youknow what you're talking about
and it's a pleasure, absolutepleasure, to be on your show.
colleyc (29:13):
Well, you've been inspiring me since the 80s.
I mean, I was only born in 72,five years before you guys
formed.
But I've been a fan forever.
All right, thank you, a realtreat, real treat.
I wish you all the best on thetour.
Also, robert, and the novel aswell.
(29:33):
I'll keep that on my list tofind and read.
Okay, and all the best, thankyou.
Robert Forster (29:40):
Chris, been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for having me on yourshow, ciao.
(30:05):
When I met you, I was throughwith some business.
I had to do business of astrange kind.
I taught English.
You were French.
We kissed on a bench.
Your world so different to mine.
Tell me what you see.
(30:25):
Tell me what you see.
Tell it back Back to me.
Tell me what you see.
I was corporate.
(31:01):
You were folk out distance.
We thought a joke, one that gotfunnier over time.
We thought of marriage.
Marriage.
We thought of kids.
We knew a marriage on the skidsbecause of the kids.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
(31:25):
Tell it back back to me.
Tell me what you see.
What do you see in the distance?
What do you see through thewall?
Fresh love is good, love is newlove.
(31:50):
Ah, we see it all.
When we parted, it soon startedan emptiness and her and me,
(32:19):
the finer things weren't so fine.
We met again through a friendwho told us to start again, to
try, try again.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell it back Back to me.
(32:44):
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell it back back to me.
Tell it back to me.
(33:08):
Telepathy.
All right, here we are, If it Be your Will, podcast.
We are at the beginning phasesof season six Season six already
.
I can't believe this journeyhas led me so far yet.
Not far enough yet.
And I'm reaching over to ourAustralian friends in Brisbane.
I have Robert Forster from theGo-Betweens in his solo career,
(00:55):
coming and joining me and we'regoing to talk about Strawberries
, which is his latest release.
But, Robert, first off I wantto just thank you again.
Thanks so much for hopping onhere and sharing some of your
thoughts and experiences with us.
My listeners love gettingprocess questions and how things
(01:17):
evolved and how songwritingworks for you, and I mean I
can't think of any better personto talk about those kinds of
things to than you.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
That's very kind of you and Imean I can't think of any better
person to talk about thosekinds of things too.
Robert Forster (01:26):
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
That's very kind of you.
colleyc (01:30):
Well, robert, I guess maybe my first question is and
I've been doing such a deep dive, I'm kind of like overwhelmed
with what your career has beenso far and the experiences that
you've had.
Could you maybe like bring backto us a few of those salient
moments that happened so far inyour career that were kind of
(01:54):
pivotal moments in thedevelopment of not only the
go-betweens but also your ownpersonal solo career as well?
Robert Forster (02:05):
Well, to skip like just through, skip through
it with, I guess, significantmoments.
It would have to be like rightat the start when in the late
70s I met a fellow student atthe Queensland University where
I was studying for an artsdegree, and I met Grant McLennan
(02:26):
, who was also a student there,and we became friends and a
couple of years later we startedthe Go-Betweens and I taught
Grant I just started to play, towrite my first songs, my first
good songs, and I met Grant andwe decided to start a band
together.
And I met Grant and we decidedto start a band together and I
(02:47):
taught him to play the bass andso we started the group.
So that's probably the mostsignificant thing of it all,
really, because without that Idon't know if I would have got a
band together or if anythingwould have gone anywhere.
So it might have just stoppedright back there.
So that's significant.
(03:10):
I think making our first recordLee, remick and Karen that's a
milestone.
I mean, that's just you canstart a band and not make a
record.
But we made a single, probablyour third single.
That was on postcard records.
(03:32):
That sort of got us out intothe world more Like we were in
Glasgow for a short time in 1980, and that was our third single
and that just sort of pushedthings to a broader way.
That was our third single andthat just sort of pushed things
to a broader way.
Right, right, right.
Lindy Morrison joined the bandon drums in 1980, and then us
(03:55):
moving to London in 1982, so weget out of Australia and we make
our second album called BeforeHollywood, which was sort of a
breakthrough record likeinternationally, with a song on
it.
The lead single called Cattleand Cane.
Robert Vickers joined on bass,then Amanda Brown on violin and
(04:20):
oboe and vocals.
We lived in London for fiveyears in the 80s.
The band broke up in 89 inSydney after making six albums
through the 80s.
Then I made my first solo album, danger in the Past.
(04:43):
I recorded more solo albums inthe 90s and got back together
with Grant and I to record inPortland in 2000.
We then made three albums.
colleyc (05:00):
And was Ocean of Parts, your final record that you guys
did together.
That was the final record.
Robert Forster (05:04):
And that was the band then was with Glenn
Thompson and Adele Pickfans, andso they were Such a great
record, such a good record.
Yeah, I mean, I'm very, veryhappy with that album and the
albums that we did before that.
And then in 2006, grant passedaway.
(05:25):
Grant and Clendam died at 48.
I became a music journalist in2005 and I started to write
regularly for a sort ofnationally syndicated magazine
here in Australia.
So I started a career as awriter and I put out a memoir in
(05:51):
Australia.
So I started a career as awriter and I put out a memoir in
2006 called Grant and I, andthen I made my solo career,
started again and I've made fouralbums over the last, released
four albums over the last 10years, which I think is actually
the most consistent body ofwork I've done as a solo artist
(06:15):
and you know I've toured and Iwrite.
They're sort of significantmoments.
colleyc (06:27):
And Robert, what inspired you to first start
penning songs?
Like you met Grant when youguys were in university, right,
like you were in an acting classtogether, yeah, like before
then, what was going on with you, just with music itself?
Like I mean, you were playingguitar.
Were you starting to writesongs at that time as well?
Robert Forster (06:50):
Yes, I was in a band.
I was in a pre-Go-Betweens bandcalled the Goddows and we
started from about 1975 to late77.
We only played three shows andtowards the end of the Goddows I
started to write songs.
And then, right at the very end, I started to write Good Ones,
(07:13):
which is when that I knew that Ihad to stop that band, which
was essentially a covers band,and start a band with my best
friend.
I realized that my songs wereso simple I could teach him, if
he was willing, which Grant wasto play the bass, and I knew
(07:35):
that that was the foundation.
Then that was a band, the twoof us.
colleyc (07:42):
What was it about those first songs too, Robert, that
felt like you were ontosomething that yeah like from
from covers to actually penningyour own tunes.
Where did that start to come toyou that, wow, this is
something that maybe I have aninclination to do.
Did that come once you had metGrant, or was that happening?
Robert Forster (08:06):
before then.
That was before.
Okay, I was.
I think it was self-expression,I think it was.
You know, I only picked up theguitar when I was around 15.
So it wasn't like I was like achild prodigy or something you
know, like I wasn't playingpiano at eight or something.
I think like a big part of it,and this is just one small thing
(08:33):
.
I think the Ramones' first albumin 1976, I heard that pretty
much when it came out and Ithought about writing songs and
I was writing songs.
They were very derivative andnot very good and I just heard
that record and I thought Icould do that it was.
(08:57):
There was no lead guitar, itwas just three chords.
It was just three chords.
The lyrics were quite simpleand personal and a little bit
funny and I just that was like adoor that I could.
It gave me confidence.
(09:18):
If they could make a record, ifthey could write songs, I could
write songs too.
You know, if the Ramones coulddo it, I could do it when.
You know, like things like LedZeppelin or even someone I
really like, like Bowie, was waytoo intimidating and musical
and there was virtuoso musiciansall over it.
(09:40):
It was something to admire, butI couldn't see a way in Right
right.
colleyc (09:48):
And in those early days when you were writing songs,
how would you go about it?
Like, what was your processthat you went through to you?
Know, get an idea to actuallysaying, okay, this is something
that I could record down theroad.
Robert Forster (10:03):
No, it was more, and it still goes right through
to today.
I need to have the music there.
I know I'll always be able towrite a lyric, but the music is
something I really have to workon and to write that I like, and
(10:23):
I want the music to be good.
I don't want it to be soundinglike something I've heard before
.
I want it to have its own stamp, and so I need the music, and
then lyrics will invariably come.
colleyc (10:37):
Great, and is there a way that you, you like, do you
have like a ritual, for startingto come up with a melody?
Or I mean in in reality andI've heard you talk about this
which I find fascinating is thatthere's only a handful of
chords right and there's only,like I remember you, you were
talking on an interview aboutgrant writing, um, um streets
(11:01):
and how it was uh, a D and an Aor something along those lines
and that how are we going tomake this different than all the
other A, A and D songs that areout there?
Yeah, yeah, how did you approachthat kind of like, knowing that
there are only a limited amountof chord structures and chords
that sound well together, toinfusing it with energy and life
(11:26):
and something that people neverheard before?
Robert Forster (11:30):
That's the great question, that's the great
mystery.
There are only a certain amountof notes and a certain amount
of chords, and that used toperplex me all the time and
still does.
It's just getting.
It's a combination.
You're playing chords, but youinvert the chords, you turn them
around, you play them indifferent positions, you write
(11:52):
notes.
You might start a song with justlike, almost like a bass riff
on the acoustic guitar.
There's different tricks thatyou just sort of you might capo,
you know, put a capo on theguitar and suddenly your chord
sounds different.
Right up there's all thesethings where you're trying to
find something new that you'vejust got to dig out of the
guitar and just sort of learningdifferent chords.
(12:15):
I mean, and you know, likemajors and minor sevenths, and
you know sevenths and diminishedchords, all this sort of stuff.
It just helps the palate of.
So it's a real learning processof going through and learning
and listening to other songs andhearing what people do.
(12:38):
There's great mystery to it.
And you just I try every dayand I can play guitar for six
months every day and get nothing, and then I arrive at it one
day and I can tell that I'mhearing something that, at least
to me, sounds new and I getvery excited and that's a way
into a song.
(12:58):
Um, it's a lot of hard work, um, because you know it's.
There's only a certain amountof chords and notes, but you can
dig them out on the guitar onthe piano right, and I mean
looking at your catalog, robert.
colleyc (13:14):
I mean it's, it's incredible the amount of songs
that you've you've written, youknow, starting in 1977, I mean
it's it's incredible what do youdo when you hit that wall of
like?
How do you find that resilienceor the persistence to to keep
pushing, to keep going, to keepsaying, all right, I'm stuck on
(13:36):
this and it's going nowhere?
to hell with it, you know, like,or even after, like the
go-betweens, kind of like, like,why not just say okay, there
was my career, what was?
It inside you that persistenceor that resilience that you
found that this had to be a partof something you did because I
(13:56):
enjoyed it.
Robert Forster (13:57):
Um, you know, pervers, you know, given how
hard it was, and I've come twiceto almost quitting where I
didn't write anything I likedfor two years, and that was in
1980 to 82 and then 1992 to 1994.
And I really did think it wasthe end and I thought I'd burn
(14:19):
out anyway with my limitedmusical skills, sometimes in my
late 40s or 50s.
So I'm quite surprised it keepson going.
I just thought that I'd exhaustthe guitar and I really haven't
.
And it really quite surprisesme.
(14:40):
And I think another thing thatmight have helped me was getting
older and starting to writelike journalism and the memoir
and just sort of.
I just got to the point where Irelaxed with it, I think, and I
just didn't care as much and Ihad something else in my life
(15:05):
creatively and it just sort ofgave the other half a lease of
life.
You know, strangely enough Itook the pressure off myself and
all of these things helped.
And I think also, you know, asyou get older, new feelings come
into your life.
You see things from new anglesand I think you think, oh, you
(15:27):
know, like that would be good tochronicle in songs.
You know, like those songschronicle me when I was 20 or 30
or 40.
I'm still evolving, I'm aging,and so maybe that can.
Somehow I can look at that in acertain way and it can work in
a song.
So all of those things combinedreally.
colleyc (15:49):
Yeah, totally.
So along comes Strawberries.
Now I checked out I mean I'vebeen listening to it a lot.
I just find it's such a happyrecord.
I mean it's just like almostfinding you know of, like folky,
you know, feel that comes alongwith it, which you had talked
(16:25):
about in previous um go-betweensongs, where it just wouldn't
fit.
And then you found this in yoursolo career, which I'm so happy
for.
Yeah, I think to the productionof this has been amazing.
You went to sweden.
You found these kindred soulsthat were so willing to do
(16:47):
anything they could to make thisrecord come out.
Could you tell us a little bitabout how those songs came to be
and then the process of youthen going to sweden and finding
these people that would thenbecome the band that would
record Strawberries?
Robert Forster (17:04):
I wrote these songs, two of the songs I had
for my previous record, theCandle in the Flame, and one of
them was Foolish, I Know, andthe other one was Such a Shame
so they didn't fit on the Candlein the Flame and mood-wise they
just weren't right for that.
(17:24):
And I had enough songs for theCandle in the Flame and so I
started this record.
After Candle in the Flame I hadtwo songs and then I wrote the
others.
Two of them came over the nextlike two years and then I wrote
the last four in about a year.
I had a really bang period,which for me four songs in a
year is incredible.
(17:44):
So the record for a start wasgoing to be recorded this year
actually, but I had eight songsI really loved and so we bought
the recording for a year, themusicians on it and so yeah, and
so the musicians.
(18:05):
This is a long story, but I'dmet Peter Morin from I don't
know if you know about PeterBjorn and John yeah, totally,
and they're a Swedish band and Imet Peter at a music festival
in Australia and we just startedcommunicating and he was a fan
of what I do and I was a fan ofhis and of his band, and then he
(18:31):
invited me over and he put aband together for this tour in
2017, this little Scandinavianthing.
If I was in Europe, he couldput a band together.
It was a beautiful, generousoffer.
He's a lovely person, peter,and so we just did these five
shows and they were just amazing.
You know, I just thought I foundthis band, you know like, and
(18:52):
the two Jonas and Magnus thatPeter chose, which is brilliant,
and it was like I've just beengifted this gorgeous band, and
so from that time, I knew, afterthose six shows, that we had to
do something more, and so ittook us seven years to make the
record.
You know, covid came, obviously, and other things, but it was
(19:15):
just like there's something withthe four of us as musicians.
I'd love us to make a record,and it was just, I think, a
beautiful coincidence that thesesongs fitted them so well.
You know, like I wasn'tnecessarily writing for them,
but I knew that this would beStockholm, I knew that it would
(19:38):
be these players, and I justwanted to go somewhere exotic.
I just wanted to go, I wantedto have an adventure, right.
You know, it's like if I wassitting here and I'm going, I
want to make an album inMontreal, I want to make an
album in Quebec, and I can justimagine that and just arrive for
(19:59):
a month, work with localmusicians and just.
But we had a history becausewe'd toured together and we'd
sort of played.
You know like, when I was twice, when I was in Stockholm
passing through, we actuallyplayed, you know like, did a
show just on the memories ofthat 2017.
(20:21):
We could actually play a set.
We stayed in touch, obviously,and then it was like, okay,
let's do this Right right, itsounds like they totally got you
.
colleyc (20:31):
They got your songs, yeah, and it was almost seamless
.
I saw a couple of videos too.
There was one where you're like, yeah, we've never played this
song before, but just gonna playit yeah, and it was just
beautiful.
I mean, it just seemed like thechemistry was there um yeah,
it's, it's amazing.
Robert Forster (20:49):
You know, like this, the swedes, they're such
good.
You know, like this is broad,talking about them, broadly,
sure, but they're, they're very,you know, it's not that it's
like a rock and roll thing withthem.
You know like they're very.
They've also almost gone tomusic schools or not.
They've played in lots of bands.
They're great historians ofmusic.
(21:11):
But at the same time, what Ilove about Peter and Jonas and
Magnus is that they're also verylucid in the moment, you know,
and they're very creative.
It's not like they're justregurgitating stuff that they
know and it just seems likethey've got a sort of I don't
(21:36):
know like a youthful power andenergy that I think is really
good with me.
colleyc (21:42):
I think it's really Totally I totally see that,
robert, yeah, yeah.
Robert Forster (21:46):
And so I really like that, that they just sort
of take material and just sortof zoom with it.
I think it's really good.
colleyc (21:55):
Yeah, and that pop sensibility too, that I mean you
see a lot of indie pop artistscoming out of Sweden, they just
have that.
Yeah, you know it's hard todescribe in words, but I just
feel too it fits so well withthe way you approach songwriting
as well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Robert Forster (22:14):
No, they've definitely got that pop thing,
which is something that I'vealways loved, you know like, and
so when I recognize it straightaway, something that I've
always loved, you know like, andso when I recognize it straight
away, it goes right back toearly Gober Twins and stuff that
I've done, but this group ofmusicians just sort of play it
(22:35):
the best you know it's justgreat, yeah, and you've had a
bit of distance since the albumcame out, like is it still
sparking you, is it stillsomething that you feel like wow
, what an accomplishment that wedid.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I honestly youknow I'd be happy not to record
(22:57):
an album for four or five yearsbecause I don't know how I'm
going to top that.
I'm really happy with it andit's like you can be happy with
a record and then two or threeyears' time, or even a year's
time, I want to make another one, where, with this, it's like I
want this to sit.
I really appreciate what thisis, I know what it is and I'm
(23:20):
just happy for it to just sortof ring.
colleyc (23:23):
Absolutely.
I mean you've got some bangerson there.
I mean, tell it back to me.
I mean what a song, uh like,what a song, even strawberries,
just that playful kind of youknow, it's just it kind of keeps
you on your toes and you'rejust happy to listen to the
whole thing.
It's just so good, so good.
(23:43):
So, peter, as we kind of wrapup here again, thanks so much
for this.
I mean your words and yourexperience and knowledge and
history are just such a treat tohear these stories Thank you
Looking onward to 2025, 2026,what do you got on your docket
(24:04):
that you can tell us about?
that might be interesting for usto anticipate.
Robert Forster (24:12):
Two things.
Well, I'm doing a tour with theSwedish band in September
October in Europe UK and Irelandand I'd like to play more with
them definitely.
So we're just sort of going outto play and show people what
we're doing.
That's sort of a part of thisthing as well is to promote the
(24:35):
record.
I really want to play the songs.
I want to take what we've gotwith the Swedish band out of
Sweden and Norway and Denmarkwhere we played, and take it
further.
I'd like to take it all aroundthe world if I could, but we've
(24:55):
got to go out and show peoplewhat we can do.
Maybe there'll be someone willinvite us somewhere, someone
will, sure.
So that's one thing, and thesecond thing is I've written,
I'm really finishing a novelthat I've been working on since
2017.
(25:16):
And that is like right at theend of its process now and I
imagine we'll be coming out atleast firstly in Australia next
year.
You know like it's really close.
I'm working with an editor andwe're like right at the weeks or
(25:37):
even days before it's signedoff.
So that is enormously exciting.
I'm really happy with the book.
This is something I've beenworking on and off for the last
eight years.
It's my first novel, so thereare two things that are before
me that I'm really lookingforward to.
colleyc (25:59):
And the Swedish band.
Is it Peter's, like the bandthat you recorded with?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Robert Forster (26:05):
Yeah, it is for the first six songs Actually.
Then Magnus has to go back to atheatre production, so the
first six shows, which are fromStockholm down to Vienna,
winding down through Berlin,hamburg, copenhagen, dresden,
hamburg, so we get to Vienna andthat's Magnus' last show, and
(26:31):
then he's being replaced by aSwedish drummer, daniel, who is
recommended by the whole threeof them.
It's unfortunate, but Magnus, along time ago, got this theatre
gig that goes on for monthsthat he couldn't turn down,
which I totally understand, andso Daniel's going to be in the
(26:51):
practice room in Stockholm inabout two weeks.
So yeah, so that'll be, but theyassure me that he's really good
and I'm sure he is.
colleyc (27:02):
Right, right, and does the song rating continue on?
And, but they assure me thathe's really good and I'm sure he
is right, right, and and rather, does the song rating continue
on?
Like, is this something thatyou can't just turn off?
Like, are you already thinkingabout other ideas being inspired
?
Robert Forster (27:14):
by different yeah I've written one song since
the album uh, like that's ayear ago.
It it's really really good andit sort of comes out of this
record.
It's about six minutes and it'sreally something different and
(27:35):
big.
But at the moment I've been onthe book and I've been happy to
leave the songwriting.
It's almost like I want to backoff.
This one just popped up and itwas just like and I just sort of
go well, there's a start.
But I've been concentrating onthe book.
I still play guitar, you know,but I'm not really desperate or
(28:00):
searching hard.
But you know, like being backon the road and being with a
guitar in my hands, who knowswhat will happen out on the road
, you know, like that's always agood place where you start to
get ideas, so something mighthappen.
colleyc (28:16):
And being around those inspiring musicians as well,
right, definitely I mean that'skind of amazing.
Definitely, definitely.
Robert Forster (28:21):
Like you know you get a feel for it.
You know like you're in frontof an audience and you're
playing for two hours and youjust have a good time backstage
or in the hotel room and it justyou're around music.
You know it's really in yourlife when you're touring.
It's really, really there withyou, the way it is at home which
(28:44):
can lead to songs, so that'd begood.
Yeah.
colleyc (28:49):
Well, robert, wow, thank you.
I so appreciate your words.
This has been so fun for me.
Robert Forster (28:55):
I hope you've enjoyed this.
colleyc (28:57):
I know Very much Great.
Robert Forster (28:59):
By the way, chris, beautiful questions,
beautiful approach, and it'sbeen a real real pleasure, chris
.
Beautiful questions, beautifulapproach.
Thank you, and it's been a realpleasure, chris, to talk to you
, because I can tell that youknow what you're talking about
and it's a pleasure, absolutepleasure, to be on your show.
colleyc (29:13):
Well, you've been inspiring me since the 80s.
I mean, I was only born in 72,five years before you guys
formed.
But I've been a fan forever.
All right, thank you, a realtreat, real treat.
I wish you all the best on thetour.
Also, robert, and the novel aswell.
(29:33):
I'll keep that on my list tofind and read.
Okay, and all the best, thankyou.
Robert Forster (29:40):
Chris, been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for having me on yourshow, ciao.
(30:05):
When I met you, I was throughwith some business.
I had to do business of astrange kind.
I taught English.
You were French.
We kissed on a bench.
Your world so different to mine.
Tell me what you see.
(30:25):
Tell me what you see.
Tell it back Back to me.
Tell me what you see.
I was corporate.
(31:01):
You were folk out distance.
We thought a joke, one that gotfunnier over time.
We thought of marriage.
Marriage.
We thought of kids.
We knew a marriage on the skidsbecause of the kids.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
(31:25):
Tell it back back to me.
Tell me what you see.
What do you see in the distance?
What do you see through thewall?
Fresh love is good, love is newlove.
(31:50):
Ah, we see it all.
When we parted, it soon startedan emptiness and her and me,
(32:19):
the finer things weren't so fine.
We met again through a friendwho told us to start again, to
try, try again.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell it back Back to me.
(32:44):
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell me what you see.
Tell it back back to me.
Tell it back to me.
(33:08):
Telepathy.
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