October 7, 2025 • 30 mins
A quiet room. Three players. More air than distortion—and somehow it feels heavier. We invited Blake Skipper from Shallowater to pull back the curtain on a second album that trades pedal stacks for patience, lets the drummer steer dynamics, and turns the bass into a melodic foil that fills the trio without clogging the mix. If you’ve ever wondered how slow/fast shifts can feel cinematic, or how minimal gear can still shake a room, this one lands right in your wheelhouse.
We trace the band’s path from Lubbock House shows to an independent release that knows what it wants: space, restraint, and intent. Blake breaks down how songs form in the room, why lyrics usually arrive last, and how a well-timed TikTok plus an Ethel Kane playlist slot helped the music find its people. There’s candour about the DIY grind—distribution, merch, schedules—alongside the pure joy of first tours, late-night drives, and fans who cross state lines for 45 minutes of slowcore catharsis. Expect talk of odd-time grooves, drummer-led accelerations, and the subtle choices that make quiet passages tense and loud moments bloom.
We also explore how reviews reflect the band’s bet: some call it sparse, others call it necessary. That’s the point. When you remove the extra, the melody has to carry, the timing has to mean something, and each player has to leave room for the others. Blake shares what’s ahead—new writing, deeper interplay, and dates with The Raveonettes across Chicago, New Jersey, New York, Philadelphia, and DC—plus a hope to bring their “dirtgaze” north to Canada. If you care about slowcore, alt-gaze, Texas indie, or simply how a small band can sound big through intention, queue it up, lean in, and let the space do the talking.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Blake (00:25):
I want to move back to where the wind blows.
Thank you for having me on.
Yeah, we um this is our secondalbum we've put out, and uh I
don't know, we're we're realproud of it.
Uh the first one was good andit was a lot of fun, but I feel
like you know we've just got a alot better, got sturdier legs
(00:50):
under us, and um I don't know,we're all three feeling like
we're better musicians this timearound.
And uh I we're we're reallyproud of what what came of it.
Chris (01:01):
Totally.
And and the the record you'rereferring to is theirs a well,
right?
That that came out in 2023.
Um again, a great record, but Itotally get you, Blake, in
saying the evolution of ofwhat's happened with you guys.
And I think you guys took itlike three or four steps forward
with this this latest one.
(01:22):
Um now you guys are from WestTexas, right?
Um friends before bandmates.
Um, like you guys had knowneach other for a while, or you
know, um fraternized in the samecircuits or the same circles
for a while.
Blake (01:37):
Yeah, yeah, we were we were all living in Lubbock.
Um, the other two boys are uhfrom there, and I I was going to
college there, and uh we allmet there going to going to the
local shows and everything, andum it was uh it was a really
cool little house show scene outthere, and we we wanted to play
music, we wanted to play thehouse shows, and uh we weren't
(01:59):
very good.
But uh then we we got betterand we started playing house
shows and it was uh but yeah,friend friends before band.
unknown (02:08):
Totally.
Chris (02:09):
And the evolution has been pretty dramatic, would you
not say?
Um now just maybe to describe alittle bit um like some of the
what comes out of you guys is Imean they call it kind of dirt
gaze, um it's slow core, it'slike it's it's such a hard um
(02:30):
genre to classify or music toclassify, I should say.
But I was looking through Texasum and kind of doing a deep
dive back into their history ofslowcore, you know, kind of alt
grunge well, not grunge, butgazy more.
Bedhead came to mind like and Iused to be a huge fan of
(02:51):
Bedhead when they uh when theyfirst came out in the eighties,
like nineties.
Just like and I never felt thatum spirit that they put out
until this record.
And I find that it is the thisthe the slow, fast, slow, fast
that you guys like to dabble inhas been so underutilized over
(03:13):
the last you know 10, 15 years.
So when the record and I got achance to listen to it a little
bit ahead of time, it just transit brought me back to those
days when I was you know asnotty-nosed kid growing up, you
know, up here in Canada.
But the memories that itbrought me back to just through
listening to the guitar and thedelivery and that sequencing.
(03:36):
So my question is when did youguys nail upon that slow, fast
kind of style of writing um youryour songs?
Blake (03:48):
Well, I think uh a lot of that probably comes from our
drummer.
Um he's just such a uh he he'ssuch an amazing drummer, and you
know, if we didn't, you know,uh let him shine, that would be
such a waste.
So uh, you know, he he has abunch of crazy ideas.
We have to shut him down on alot of them.
He goes too wild.
But uh, you know, we uh I don'tknow, also we just come from a
(04:13):
place of uh not really knowingtoo much theory and everything,
so it's really nice to be ableto break down um he he knows how
to break down like the the timesignatures and everything.
We had a we had a song in 5.4um and before we were playing
with him, and we didn't knowthat uh we didn't know what it
(04:33):
was.
We couldn't figure it out, andso then he uh he told us what it
was and uh and then the speedups and everything, that's
that's always just a fun thingto do.
It happens while we're jamming,and then uh you know, sometimes
it makes it into the songs.
Chris (04:48):
Nice.
And who who who pens the songlike who brings the ideas in?
Is it a is it a conglomerate ofall three of you, or are you
the one that would bring an ideain and say, I think I have
something here with a couple ofchords and I have a few lines in
my head?
Like, how does how does one ofyour songs in Shallow Water come
to be?
Blake (05:08):
Uh different songs come about different ways.
Uh some of those songs Tristanbrings in, some of the songs I
bring in.
Um, and then a lot of them weuh we work on together.
You know, we'll bring in ahalf-baked idea, and then um we
usually come up with the lyricslast.
Uh that's usually a bigcollaborative effort.
Um that's always been thetrickiest part for us, you know,
(05:30):
trying to, you know, we we havethis whole song here, and what
what do we want it to say?
That's uh that's a tough thingto figure out sometimes.
unknown (05:37):
Yeah, totally.
Chris (05:40):
And is that collaboration like do the songs come in like
kind of like pretty welldefined, or is there tons of
room in there to like are yousurprised sometimes of how the
song comes in and then what itevolves into?
Blake (05:56):
Yeah, so uh a lot of the times, like uh for um Untitled
Cowboy, for instance, uh Ibrought that one in like you
know, in my head it was prettywell cooked, but uh it the the
whole like feel of it and uheverything that goes on, the the
speed ups and the theslowdowns, that that all came
(06:16):
with uh just playing it togetherand thinking um you know the
collective mind rather than justmy head in my bedroom.
Chris (06:24):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
So that they all just kind oftake a life of their own once
they uh get out in the middle ofthe room.
Right.
And is it crazy for me tosuggest that you guys grew up
listening to like heavy music?
Uh maybe the other two boys forsure.
I grew up uh pretty sheltered.
(06:45):
Uh my mom didn't want melistening to uh rock and roll,
you know, if believe it or not.
Um but uh you know, so I I grewup listening to a lot of
country and uh various things,but um definitely uh whenever I
got to college especially, I uhit was a whole new world of uh
(07:06):
all the music that ever existedthat I got to go through and uh
it was a really great time and Igot inspired by a lot.
There's a lot that I I'm sureI'm inspired by that I don't
even know.
And Blake, were you were youalready writing songs and like
interested in becoming amusician before you entered into
(07:27):
college?
Like was that happening at homeas you were growing up in high
school and all of that?
Blake (07:32):
Yeah, uh Lonely Sea off the first album.
I wrote that one whenever I wasuh like 14, I believe.
Um I uh I don't know, I I'vealways wanted to do music and uh
so now it's uh it's really niceto actually be doing it.
And um that was uh that was anice little song that uh ever
(07:52):
everybody else seemed to likeit, so uh we tried to take a
real whack at it and put it on arecord, so we did.
Chris (07:58):
Awesome.
And Blake, what's your process?
How do you how do you get froman idea to a song?
Like, are you the kind ofmusician that has to do
something every day or do youwait till inspiration kicks in
or till uh something that popsin front of you and inspires
you?
Like, how do you what's yourprocess like from for for
(08:19):
writing for being a musician, Iguess?
Blake (08:21):
I feel like for me, um it's uh it's kind of ebbs and
flows.
I uh you know, I I play guitaruh all the time, but I'm not
always writing.
Um and uh but but like there'slittle windows of uh where I
feel super creative and um youknow a lot of the time nothing
really comes of it, but youknow, there'll be little uh
(08:44):
weeks where I'm like, oh yeah,this is this is a really cool
idea.
I'm gonna keep going.
That that leads to another coolidea, and that leads to another
cool idea.
And sometimes you get a songyou like out of it, and
sometimes not.
Chris (08:57):
Do you keep all those little you know?
Blake (09:00):
Yes, they're they're all reharvest one day or I have uh
like a million voice memos, anduh, you know, maybe I'll go
through them one day.
Chris (09:11):
So that's is that also a part of your practice is you'll
always have kind of your phoneand like you'll you'll capture
ideas through the recorder onyour phone.
Blake (09:19):
Yes, yeah.
And uh that way, you know, youdon't forget and you can go back
and um you know if if I take avideo of it then I can remember
how I how I was playing that.
But um you know it's it's areally frustrating uh thing to
forget an idea.
Um I've I forgot a lot of them,but they they probably weren't
that good anyway.
Chris (09:39):
So they'll come back eventually, right?
Yeah, yeah.
The good ones will.
That's right.
That's right.
And how did you guys kind ofwalk into like I know playing
subtle is very hard.
Like it's not you have topeople's tendency when they play
is like to you know, rock itout.
It's it seems almost easier,like when there's lots of noise,
(10:00):
because you can hide stuff inthere.
Yeah, your sound is like it'sthere.
Like I heard that you guysdon't use a lot of pedals,
effects.
Um you keep the stuff prettyclean.
Is that an accurate statement?
Blake (10:15):
Uh it's uh it's a pretty minimal pedal board.
Um I think uh on the record I'musing uh not counting the tuner
pedal, I think three pedals.
Chris (10:28):
Um was that always the intent of of you guys of Shallow
ater is to keep it clean withenough space in there as well?
Blake (10:39):
Yeah, uh especially with this um with this record, we had
more of an idea of what we whatwe wanted to do with uh this
new record.
The first one was just kind ofyou know, throwing everything at
the wall, figuring out what wecan do, and then this time
around we um had a concise ideaof um you know it it it's a
(11:00):
really hard thing to do um to beso slow and so soft sometimes,
but I I really like that kind ofmusic, so wanted to be able to
pull that off.
Chris (11:13):
Well you do it, man.
You do it with grace andintegrity and like it's um like
I've tried to do those kinds ofthings and it's so exhausting to
slow it all down so thatthere's enough room for the the
music to just be.
Um and I find the interplaybetween your guitar and your
(11:35):
bass player amazing.
But the drummer, as you werementioning, I mean, it just adds
this uh it's more than a drum.
It's like almost anotherinstrument or a voice speaking.
Uh it's it's really quiteunbelievable how you guys
assembled all that together.
Blake (11:52):
It's uh it's really nice.
And uh yeah, as for the bass,uh Tristan plays bass in a
really special way.
I I wouldn't want to play withanyone else because uh I think
it the way he plays it, it fillsout the three-piece.
The three-piece would soundpretty empty.
Um but I don't know, he's kindof playing the bass and uh
secondary guitar simultaneously,so it um it leaves a lot of
(12:16):
room for me to uh you know dancearound and figure out what I
actually want to play.
Chris (12:22):
Right.
And so like how long does thatprocess take when you're the
three of you together like sayyou have an idea that you're
trying to, you know, you have anidea of a song and you're still
kind of working it.
Where do you find your um entrypoint, I guess, in the song for
a girl, you know, like as youwere mentioning.
Blake (12:43):
Yeah, yeah, like with um with Sadie, uh that's like a
bass line that uh Tristan hashad kicking around for a long
time, um since before we movedout of Lubbock, I think.
But um You know, I I just nevercould really figure out what to
do with it, you know, what whatI'm supposed to be playing on
it and everything, and um so ittook a long time.
(13:04):
Um and then you know, we justkept jamming on it in uh in
spare time, and uh finally we uhyou know it it just it was
slow, but it it came together.
But then there's other songswhere uh like million dollars
came together really fast.
Um it's really we haven'twritten two songs the same
(13:25):
process, I don't feel like andwhat's the connection with Ethel
Kane?
Um I I read something in one ofthe reviews.
Could you elaborate on thatcollaboration or connection or
yeah that um so I think that thereason anybody's heard of us is
(13:50):
uh because of her.
Um so I'm very grateful forthat.
Um I think uh well so so whathappened was uh there was a uh
TikTok posted by um by ourfriends uh uh Outside Noise and
uh that TikTok for some reasongot picked up quite a bit, and
(14:12):
uh I believe Ethel Kane'sroommate um saw that and liked
the song uh or you know, likedone of the songs and uh shared
that with Ethel Kane and um anduh then she put us on her
playlist and that uh that reallydid so much for us.
And uh and then uh we got tomeet her at one of her shows in
(14:35):
New York and that was reallyspecial.
Chris (14:38):
And have you guys like do you guys ad admire like had you
known about her before, likeand what she does as as her
craft as well?
Blake (14:47):
I was definitely aware of her.
Um I I hadn't listened thatmuch before uh before it became
relevant uh you know in my life,but uh there's a lot of music I
haven't heard, so you knowthat's that's uh that's not a
dig.
Chris (15:00):
No, totally.
There is a mass amount of musicout there that we'll never all
listen to.
It's impossible.
But yeah, and it just neverstops.
Um how how do you navigate thatthe the record cycle?
Um like there is always suchthis huge buildup, right, when
you're putting a recordtogether.
(15:21):
It comes out.
You know, like how do how doesyou how do you and your band
kind of navigate that cycle ofokay, we have this thing, this
archive we're gonna create, wewanna put it down on a record,
we want to put it out on ondigital platforms, the day
comes, it goes.
Blake (15:41):
Yeah, no, it's yeah.
It's been it's been a realcrazy process because the the
first record we did, uh, we putit out with a local label.
Um and they uh you know theydid a lot of the the little uh
the busy work, you know, likethe the nitty-gritty.
Um and uh this record we haveput out independently, and it's
(16:06):
uh it's been crazy to find outhow much really goes into uh all
the all the I's you gotta dotand all the t's you gotta cross.
Um you know, we we've gone withuh distribution platform and
figuring out how to work allthat, and then um handling our
own merch and everything.
There's just uh so much, andthen you know, hopping on calls
(16:27):
like this, you know, it's uhtrying to keep your schedule in
line.
Chris (16:33):
Yeah, totally, totally.
Well, and and and keeping thatkind of flow or that line of the
record out there, you know, sothat it it's still getting
talked about a bit and sharedand identificated on, etcetera.
Blake (16:46):
Trying to get it in front of people that haven't heard it
yet, and uh there's uh there'sa lot to that.
And then also uh, you know,touring on top of that, we we
just uh went on our first realtour um with uh our real good
friends in the band uh World'sWorst.
And that was a great tour, anduh that was in July.
And it was a great experienceand really exhausting.
(17:09):
And then now uh next week we'regoing back out um with the
Ravenettes and uh I uh yeah, I Iknew uh I knew it was gonna be
busy, but uh it's daunting, butin a good way, you know.
This this is what I wanted todo, but um I'm uh I'm a little
overwhelmed, but it's uh it'sgood to be.
Chris (17:29):
Yeah.
Was that like what was thedecision process for saying,
okay, this one it's DIY, we'redoing it ourselves?
Like what what brought you guysto that decision of of saying
that with the latest record?
Blake (17:42):
Well, we uh you know, we hadn't intended to go
independent with this one.
I I think we were waitingaround for something to happen,
and uh nothing ended uphappening, and then we uh got to
thinking, well, uh, you know,if it's gonna come out this
year, we better make somethinghappen.
So uh, you know, we didn't wantto wait around on it forever.
(18:04):
Uh wanted to we were excitedfirst off to to put it out.
You know, we we've been sittingon it for a while, you know, in
our it's in our phones andeverything, but uh wanted to put
it out and wanted to you knowkeep the momentum from the last
album, didn't want that tocompletely die off.
Um so it was uh it was a weirddecision to make.
(18:28):
It felt it felt weird.
Um but I think uh I think wemade the right call and uh I'm
overjoyed to have this thing outthere.
Chris (18:41):
Like what do you you know it's you've created this
archive, you know, of a periodin time, you know, uh what is
September whatever it came out?
10th I think it was September5th, 5th, yes.
The archive came out, the worldcould finally listen to it.
How do you have they have areyou finding that people are
(19:02):
getting what you wanted out ofthe record?
Like are you finding that thepeople that are listening to it
are getting what you guys weretrying to do?
Blake (19:12):
I think so.
Um I think a lot of people thatI've talked to have uh you know
gotten a lot out of uh, youknow, pe different people will
tell me different songsresonated with them, and uh you
know, a lot of the time I'mlike, yeah, that that's uh
that's what it does for me too.
But then it's also reallyexciting to hear someone have a
(19:33):
different take that completelywasn't in my head, you know.
Um and it means somethingtotally different to them than
what I intended, but that's uhthat's a really beautiful part
of it all too.
Chris (19:47):
And when you guys were touring in July, did you have
some cool encounters with yourfans like at at shows and stuff?
Like could you tell that peoplewere really into what you guys
were doing?
Blake (20:01):
There was a lot of special moments like that.
Um I I'm gonna kick myself fornot remembering his name, but
there was uh we played our firstshow on that tour in Kansas
City, and uh there was a guythere that uh drove all the way
from Nebraska.
Um and you know, he he droveseveral hours to come see us,
and that that uh that's asurreal feeling.
(20:23):
Like, why would you do that?
You know, like but but it's uhit means a whole lot and it's uh
you know very um reassuring.
You know, it it feels uh itfeels weird to say you're taking
music seriously, you know.
Um there's uh I don't know, youknow, it in my head it feels
weird, you know.
It's like why I I feel kind ofsilly, but um but to see it
(20:48):
actually mean something tosomebody is uh you know that's
uh very reassuring, very uh veryspecial feeling.
Yeah, the validation of all ofthat work and effort that
somebody's getting something outof it.
You know, it might not beexactly what our intent was, but
it's something for them thatmeans a lot to them.
(21:10):
So that's really special.
That's a great feeling to haveas well that um you're
connecting to other humans on adifferent kind of plane, um,
because no words are exchanged,it's just through what you
created.
Yeah.
It's a it's a really specialconnection.
And you know, I I think of allthe all the music that's meant a
(21:31):
lot to me over my life, and uhI uh I don't know, I I want to I
want to do that for somebody.
And uh it's uh it's nice tohave it out there to where
there's a bunch of people outthere that I'll never meet that
can listen to it.
And that's uh that that's areally cool part about the you
(21:52):
know the whole internet age andall that.
Uh you know, as as cheesy as itis, but uh you know, you can
just upload something and youknow, there's all the pitfalls
to you know, Spotify and allthat, but um but it is cool that
anybody can put anything out umand uh you know you don't have
to print CDs or you know, getyour record pressed or anything.
Chris (22:17):
It's uh you can just connect you just have to go
gander at your Bandcamp page.
I mean, you can see theattention that this record's
getting.
Um you know, it's only been 15two weeks, and I mean you got a
lot of people that havedownloaded it, which I love to
see.
It's just so uh encouraging, Ifind, when you're finding a
(22:38):
record that you really like andthen you also see that it's
validated by all these otherpeople is um it's a special
process, that's for sure.
Blake (22:45):
Yeah, yeah.
I all the support has uh reallyfloored me.
Um just uh seeing all thesepeople uh you know, even just
say nice things about it.
Uh uh it's um it's surreal.
Chris (23:02):
Like the reviews overall have been the ones I read anyway
were really nice.
Blake (23:06):
And yeah, there's a there's a couple of them that
say it's uh kind of boring andeverything.
But you know, the the they'rethey're right too, you know.
It can it can be boring.
Chris (23:15):
You know, if you don't like space, you know, like if
it's too spacey, you know, toomuch space in between it it
freaks some people out, butother people like they crave
that, like me.
Yeah.
For example.
Um well Blake, I want to thankyou.
Uh this has been a real treatto talk with you.
Um I guess my last question iswhat can we anticipate um for
(23:37):
the rest of 2025-2026 fromShallow Water?
What what's coming down thepipe that you could that you can
share with us?
Blake (23:43):
Well, uh, I think um, you know, we're working on music uh
slowly but surely.
Um and I think it's happeningagain, you know, we're we're
constantly growing, um, youknow, like as musicians and uh
songwriters.
So um I'm really excited to seewhat comes next, you know, what
(24:04):
what we can pull off.
Um and uh you know that that'llbe down the road, but um but
I'm excited to see what comes.
Chris (24:14):
And are there any other dates coming up of shows that
that's the other thing?
Blake (24:17):
Yeah, we're uh we're going out with the Ravenettes.
Um I think uh oh I don't haveall the dates in front of me,
but um I'll post them on the onthe descriptor, but you're on
the road soon.
Chris (24:31):
Like you go out for how long how long's this run for?
Blake (24:33):
Yeah, I think we got uh five shows with them.
Um got Chicago, New Jersey, NewYork, Philadelphia, and DC, I
think.
Chris (24:43):
Um those lucky buggers.
Anyway, eventually I definitelywant you to bring uh your dirt
gaze up to uh cold Canada.
Have a have a listen in uh it'sbeen just such a pleasure we
can all the best too with uhthis record, the one coming down
the pipe, which will besometime and also your shows.
(25:07):
Um keep uh keep finding that uhmagic that you guys are
producing, and uh I mean it justsparks.
So congratulations on thisrecord.
And people out there, go checkone of those shows if you're in
that area.
Uh get a t-shirt by the record,support these guys.
Um you will thank uh Blake fordoing it, and you'll thank me
(25:28):
for having him on the cast.
So Blake, thanks so much, anduh thank you.
Take care of yourself.
Speaker 02 (25:35):
You two You've got your million dollars and a
handful of roses.
I want to move back to where the wind blows.
Thank you for having me on.
Yeah, we um this is our secondalbum we've put out, and uh I
don't know, we're we're realproud of it.
Uh the first one was good andit was a lot of fun, but I feel
like you know we've just got a alot better, got sturdier legs
(00:50):
under us, and um I don't know,we're all three feeling like
we're better musicians this timearound.
And uh I we're we're reallyproud of what what came of it.
Chris (01:01):
Totally.
And and the the record you'rereferring to is theirs a well,
right?
That that came out in 2023.
Um again, a great record, but Itotally get you, Blake, in
saying the evolution of ofwhat's happened with you guys.
And I think you guys took itlike three or four steps forward
with this this latest one.
(01:22):
Um now you guys are from WestTexas, right?
Um friends before bandmates.
Um, like you guys had knowneach other for a while, or you
know, um fraternized in the samecircuits or the same circles
for a while.
Blake (01:37):
Yeah, yeah, we were we were all living in Lubbock.
Um, the other two boys are uhfrom there, and I I was going to
college there, and uh we allmet there going to going to the
local shows and everything, andum it was uh it was a really
cool little house show scene outthere, and we we wanted to play
music, we wanted to play thehouse shows, and uh we weren't
(01:59):
very good.
But uh then we we got betterand we started playing house
shows and it was uh but yeah,friend friends before band.
unknown (02:08):
Totally.
Chris (02:09):
And the evolution has been pretty dramatic, would you
not say?
Um now just maybe to describe alittle bit um like some of the
what comes out of you guys is Imean they call it kind of dirt
gaze, um it's slow core, it'slike it's it's such a hard um
(02:30):
genre to classify or music toclassify, I should say.
But I was looking through Texasum and kind of doing a deep
dive back into their history ofslowcore, you know, kind of alt
grunge well, not grunge, butgazy more.
Bedhead came to mind like and Iused to be a huge fan of
(02:51):
Bedhead when they uh when theyfirst came out in the eighties,
like nineties.
Just like and I never felt thatum spirit that they put out
until this record.
And I find that it is the thisthe the slow, fast, slow, fast
that you guys like to dabble inhas been so underutilized over
(03:13):
the last you know 10, 15 years.
So when the record and I got achance to listen to it a little
bit ahead of time, it just transit brought me back to those
days when I was you know asnotty-nosed kid growing up, you
know, up here in Canada.
But the memories that itbrought me back to just through
listening to the guitar and thedelivery and that sequencing.
(03:36):
So my question is when did youguys nail upon that slow, fast
kind of style of writing um youryour songs?
Blake (03:48):
Well, I think uh a lot of that probably comes from our
drummer.
Um he's just such a uh he he'ssuch an amazing drummer, and you
know, if we didn't, you know,uh let him shine, that would be
such a waste.
So uh, you know, he he has abunch of crazy ideas.
We have to shut him down on alot of them.
He goes too wild.
But uh, you know, we uh I don'tknow, also we just come from a
(04:13):
place of uh not really knowingtoo much theory and everything,
so it's really nice to be ableto break down um he he knows how
to break down like the the timesignatures and everything.
We had a we had a song in 5.4um and before we were playing
with him, and we didn't knowthat uh we didn't know what it
(04:33):
was.
We couldn't figure it out, andso then he uh he told us what it
was and uh and then the speedups and everything, that's
that's always just a fun thingto do.
It happens while we're jamming,and then uh you know, sometimes
it makes it into the songs.
Chris (04:48):
Nice.
And who who who pens the songlike who brings the ideas in?
Is it a is it a conglomerate ofall three of you, or are you
the one that would bring an ideain and say, I think I have
something here with a couple ofchords and I have a few lines in
my head?
Like, how does how does one ofyour songs in Shallow Water come
to be?
Blake (05:08):
Uh different songs come about different ways.
Uh some of those songs Tristanbrings in, some of the songs I
bring in.
Um, and then a lot of them weuh we work on together.
You know, we'll bring in ahalf-baked idea, and then um we
usually come up with the lyricslast.
Uh that's usually a bigcollaborative effort.
Um that's always been thetrickiest part for us, you know,
(05:30):
trying to, you know, we we havethis whole song here, and what
what do we want it to say?
That's uh that's a tough thingto figure out sometimes.
unknown (05:37):
Yeah, totally.
Chris (05:40):
And is that collaboration like do the songs come in like
kind of like pretty welldefined, or is there tons of
room in there to like are yousurprised sometimes of how the
song comes in and then what itevolves into?
Blake (05:56):
Yeah, so uh a lot of the times, like uh for um Untitled
Cowboy, for instance, uh Ibrought that one in like you
know, in my head it was prettywell cooked, but uh it the the
whole like feel of it and uheverything that goes on, the the
speed ups and the theslowdowns, that that all came
(06:16):
with uh just playing it togetherand thinking um you know the
collective mind rather than justmy head in my bedroom.
Chris (06:24):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
So that they all just kind oftake a life of their own once
they uh get out in the middle ofthe room.
Right.
And is it crazy for me tosuggest that you guys grew up
listening to like heavy music?
Uh maybe the other two boys forsure.
I grew up uh pretty sheltered.
(06:45):
Uh my mom didn't want melistening to uh rock and roll,
you know, if believe it or not.
Um but uh you know, so I I grewup listening to a lot of
country and uh various things,but um definitely uh whenever I
got to college especially, I uhit was a whole new world of uh
(07:06):
all the music that ever existedthat I got to go through and uh
it was a really great time and Igot inspired by a lot.
There's a lot that I I'm sureI'm inspired by that I don't
even know.
And Blake, were you were youalready writing songs and like
interested in becoming amusician before you entered into
(07:27):
college?
Like was that happening at homeas you were growing up in high
school and all of that?
Blake (07:32):
Yeah, uh Lonely Sea off the first album.
I wrote that one whenever I wasuh like 14, I believe.
Um I uh I don't know, I I'vealways wanted to do music and uh
so now it's uh it's really niceto actually be doing it.
And um that was uh that was anice little song that uh ever
(07:52):
everybody else seemed to likeit, so uh we tried to take a
real whack at it and put it on arecord, so we did.
Chris (07:58):
Awesome.
And Blake, what's your process?
How do you how do you get froman idea to a song?
Like, are you the kind ofmusician that has to do
something every day or do youwait till inspiration kicks in
or till uh something that popsin front of you and inspires
you?
Like, how do you what's yourprocess like from for for
(08:19):
writing for being a musician, Iguess?
Blake (08:21):
I feel like for me, um it's uh it's kind of ebbs and
flows.
I uh you know, I I play guitaruh all the time, but I'm not
always writing.
Um and uh but but like there'slittle windows of uh where I
feel super creative and um youknow a lot of the time nothing
really comes of it, but youknow, there'll be little uh
(08:44):
weeks where I'm like, oh yeah,this is this is a really cool
idea.
I'm gonna keep going.
That that leads to another coolidea, and that leads to another
cool idea.
And sometimes you get a songyou like out of it, and
sometimes not.
Chris (08:57):
Do you keep all those little you know?
Blake (09:00):
Yes, they're they're all reharvest one day or I have uh
like a million voice memos, anduh, you know, maybe I'll go
through them one day.
Chris (09:11):
So that's is that also a part of your practice is you'll
always have kind of your phoneand like you'll you'll capture
ideas through the recorder onyour phone.
Blake (09:19):
Yes, yeah.
And uh that way, you know, youdon't forget and you can go back
and um you know if if I take avideo of it then I can remember
how I how I was playing that.
But um you know it's it's areally frustrating uh thing to
forget an idea.
Um I've I forgot a lot of them,but they they probably weren't
that good anyway.
Chris (09:39):
So they'll come back eventually, right?
Yeah, yeah.
The good ones will.
That's right.
That's right.
And how did you guys kind ofwalk into like I know playing
subtle is very hard.
Like it's not you have topeople's tendency when they play
is like to you know, rock itout.
It's it seems almost easier,like when there's lots of noise,
(10:00):
because you can hide stuff inthere.
Yeah, your sound is like it'sthere.
Like I heard that you guysdon't use a lot of pedals,
effects.
Um you keep the stuff prettyclean.
Is that an accurate statement?
Blake (10:15):
Uh it's uh it's a pretty minimal pedal board.
Um I think uh on the record I'musing uh not counting the tuner
pedal, I think three pedals.
Chris (10:28):
Um was that always the intent of of you guys of Shallow
ater is to keep it clean withenough space in there as well?
Blake (10:39):
Yeah, uh especially with this um with this record, we had
more of an idea of what we whatwe wanted to do with uh this
new record.
The first one was just kind ofyou know, throwing everything at
the wall, figuring out what wecan do, and then this time
around we um had a concise ideaof um you know it it it's a
(11:00):
really hard thing to do um to beso slow and so soft sometimes,
but I I really like that kind ofmusic, so wanted to be able to
pull that off.
Chris (11:13):
Well you do it, man.
You do it with grace andintegrity and like it's um like
I've tried to do those kinds ofthings and it's so exhausting to
slow it all down so thatthere's enough room for the the
music to just be.
Um and I find the interplaybetween your guitar and your
(11:35):
bass player amazing.
But the drummer, as you werementioning, I mean, it just adds
this uh it's more than a drum.
It's like almost anotherinstrument or a voice speaking.
Uh it's it's really quiteunbelievable how you guys
assembled all that together.
Blake (11:52):
It's uh it's really nice.
And uh yeah, as for the bass,uh Tristan plays bass in a
really special way.
I I wouldn't want to play withanyone else because uh I think
it the way he plays it, it fillsout the three-piece.
The three-piece would soundpretty empty.
Um but I don't know, he's kindof playing the bass and uh
secondary guitar simultaneously,so it um it leaves a lot of
(12:16):
room for me to uh you know dancearound and figure out what I
actually want to play.
Chris (12:22):
Right.
And so like how long does thatprocess take when you're the
three of you together like sayyou have an idea that you're
trying to, you know, you have anidea of a song and you're still
kind of working it.
Where do you find your um entrypoint, I guess, in the song for
a girl, you know, like as youwere mentioning.
Blake (12:43):
Yeah, yeah, like with um with Sadie, uh that's like a
bass line that uh Tristan hashad kicking around for a long
time, um since before we movedout of Lubbock, I think.
But um You know, I I just nevercould really figure out what to
do with it, you know, what whatI'm supposed to be playing on
it and everything, and um so ittook a long time.
(13:04):
Um and then you know, we justkept jamming on it in uh in
spare time, and uh finally we uhyou know it it just it was
slow, but it it came together.
But then there's other songswhere uh like million dollars
came together really fast.
Um it's really we haven'twritten two songs the same
(13:25):
process, I don't feel like andwhat's the connection with Ethel
Kane?
Um I I read something in one ofthe reviews.
Could you elaborate on thatcollaboration or connection or
yeah that um so I think that thereason anybody's heard of us is
(13:50):
uh because of her.
Um so I'm very grateful forthat.
Um I think uh well so so whathappened was uh there was a uh
TikTok posted by um by ourfriends uh uh Outside Noise and
uh that TikTok for some reasongot picked up quite a bit, and
(14:12):
uh I believe Ethel Kane'sroommate um saw that and liked
the song uh or you know, likedone of the songs and uh shared
that with Ethel Kane and um anduh then she put us on her
playlist and that uh that reallydid so much for us.
And uh and then uh we got tomeet her at one of her shows in
(14:35):
New York and that was reallyspecial.
Chris (14:38):
And have you guys like do you guys ad admire like had you
known about her before, likeand what she does as as her
craft as well?
Blake (14:47):
I was definitely aware of her.
Um I I hadn't listened thatmuch before uh before it became
relevant uh you know in my life,but uh there's a lot of music I
haven't heard, so you knowthat's that's uh that's not a
dig.
Chris (15:00):
No, totally.
There is a mass amount of musicout there that we'll never all
listen to.
It's impossible.
But yeah, and it just neverstops.
Um how how do you navigate thatthe the record cycle?
Um like there is always suchthis huge buildup, right, when
you're putting a recordtogether.
(15:21):
It comes out.
You know, like how do how doesyou how do you and your band
kind of navigate that cycle ofokay, we have this thing, this
archive we're gonna create, wewanna put it down on a record,
we want to put it out on ondigital platforms, the day
comes, it goes.
Blake (15:41):
Yeah, no, it's yeah.
It's been it's been a realcrazy process because the the
first record we did, uh, we putit out with a local label.
Um and they uh you know theydid a lot of the the little uh
the busy work, you know, likethe the nitty-gritty.
Um and uh this record we haveput out independently, and it's
(16:06):
uh it's been crazy to find outhow much really goes into uh all
the all the I's you gotta dotand all the t's you gotta cross.
Um you know, we we've gone withuh distribution platform and
figuring out how to work allthat, and then um handling our
own merch and everything.
There's just uh so much, andthen you know, hopping on calls
(16:27):
like this, you know, it's uhtrying to keep your schedule in
line.
Chris (16:33):
Yeah, totally, totally.
Well, and and and keeping thatkind of flow or that line of the
record out there, you know, sothat it it's still getting
talked about a bit and sharedand identificated on, etcetera.
Blake (16:46):
Trying to get it in front of people that haven't heard it
yet, and uh there's uh there'sa lot to that.
And then also uh, you know,touring on top of that, we we
just uh went on our first realtour um with uh our real good
friends in the band uh World'sWorst.
And that was a great tour, anduh that was in July.
And it was a great experienceand really exhausting.
(17:09):
And then now uh next week we'regoing back out um with the
Ravenettes and uh I uh yeah, I Iknew uh I knew it was gonna be
busy, but uh it's daunting, butin a good way, you know.
This this is what I wanted todo, but um I'm uh I'm a little
overwhelmed, but it's uh it'sgood to be.
Chris (17:29):
Yeah.
Was that like what was thedecision process for saying,
okay, this one it's DIY, we'redoing it ourselves?
Like what what brought you guysto that decision of of saying
that with the latest record?
Blake (17:42):
Well, we uh you know, we hadn't intended to go
independent with this one.
I I think we were waitingaround for something to happen,
and uh nothing ended uphappening, and then we uh got to
thinking, well, uh, you know,if it's gonna come out this
year, we better make somethinghappen.
So uh, you know, we didn't wantto wait around on it forever.
(18:04):
Uh wanted to we were excitedfirst off to to put it out.
You know, we we've been sittingon it for a while, you know, in
our it's in our phones andeverything, but uh wanted to put
it out and wanted to you knowkeep the momentum from the last
album, didn't want that tocompletely die off.
Um so it was uh it was a weirddecision to make.
(18:28):
It felt it felt weird.
Um but I think uh I think wemade the right call and uh I'm
overjoyed to have this thing outthere.
Chris (18:41):
Like what do you you know it's you've created this
archive, you know, of a periodin time, you know, uh what is
September whatever it came out?
10th I think it was September5th, 5th, yes.
The archive came out, the worldcould finally listen to it.
How do you have they have areyou finding that people are
(19:02):
getting what you wanted out ofthe record?
Like are you finding that thepeople that are listening to it
are getting what you guys weretrying to do?
Blake (19:12):
I think so.
Um I think a lot of people thatI've talked to have uh you know
gotten a lot out of uh, youknow, pe different people will
tell me different songsresonated with them, and uh you
know, a lot of the time I'mlike, yeah, that that's uh
that's what it does for me too.
But then it's also reallyexciting to hear someone have a
(19:33):
different take that completelywasn't in my head, you know.
Um and it means somethingtotally different to them than
what I intended, but that's uhthat's a really beautiful part
of it all too.
Chris (19:47):
And when you guys were touring in July, did you have
some cool encounters with yourfans like at at shows and stuff?
Like could you tell that peoplewere really into what you guys
were doing?
Blake (20:01):
There was a lot of special moments like that.
Um I I'm gonna kick myself fornot remembering his name, but
there was uh we played our firstshow on that tour in Kansas
City, and uh there was a guythere that uh drove all the way
from Nebraska.
Um and you know, he he droveseveral hours to come see us,
and that that uh that's asurreal feeling.
(20:23):
Like, why would you do that?
You know, like but but it's uhit means a whole lot and it's uh
you know very um reassuring.
You know, it it feels uh itfeels weird to say you're taking
music seriously, you know.
Um there's uh I don't know, youknow, it in my head it feels
weird, you know.
It's like why I I feel kind ofsilly, but um but to see it
(20:48):
actually mean something tosomebody is uh you know that's
uh very reassuring, very uh veryspecial feeling.
Yeah, the validation of all ofthat work and effort that
somebody's getting something outof it.
You know, it might not beexactly what our intent was, but
it's something for them thatmeans a lot to them.
(21:10):
So that's really special.
That's a great feeling to haveas well that um you're
connecting to other humans on adifferent kind of plane, um,
because no words are exchanged,it's just through what you
created.
Yeah.
It's a it's a really specialconnection.
And you know, I I think of allthe all the music that's meant a
(21:31):
lot to me over my life, and uhI uh I don't know, I I want to I
want to do that for somebody.
And uh it's uh it's nice tohave it out there to where
there's a bunch of people outthere that I'll never meet that
can listen to it.
And that's uh that that's areally cool part about the you
(21:52):
know the whole internet age andall that.
Uh you know, as as cheesy as itis, but uh you know, you can
just upload something and youknow, there's all the pitfalls
to you know, Spotify and allthat, but um but it is cool that
anybody can put anything out umand uh you know you don't have
to print CDs or you know, getyour record pressed or anything.
Chris (22:17):
It's uh you can just connect you just have to go
gander at your Bandcamp page.
I mean, you can see theattention that this record's
getting.
Um you know, it's only been 15two weeks, and I mean you got a
lot of people that havedownloaded it, which I love to
see.
It's just so uh encouraging, Ifind, when you're finding a
(22:38):
record that you really like andthen you also see that it's
validated by all these otherpeople is um it's a special
process, that's for sure.
Blake (22:45):
Yeah, yeah.
I all the support has uh reallyfloored me.
Um just uh seeing all thesepeople uh you know, even just
say nice things about it.
Uh uh it's um it's surreal.
Chris (23:02):
Like the reviews overall have been the ones I read anyway
were really nice.
Blake (23:06):
And yeah, there's a there's a couple of them that
say it's uh kind of boring andeverything.
But you know, the the they'rethey're right too, you know.
It can it can be boring.
Chris (23:15):
You know, if you don't like space, you know, like if
it's too spacey, you know, toomuch space in between it it
freaks some people out, butother people like they crave
that, like me.
Yeah.
For example.
Um well Blake, I want to thankyou.
Uh this has been a real treatto talk with you.
Um I guess my last question iswhat can we anticipate um for
(23:37):
the rest of 2025-2026 fromShallow Water?
What what's coming down thepipe that you could that you can
share with us?
Blake (23:43):
Well, uh, I think um, you know, we're working on music uh
slowly but surely.
Um and I think it's happeningagain, you know, we're we're
constantly growing, um, youknow, like as musicians and uh
songwriters.
So um I'm really excited to seewhat comes next, you know, what
(24:04):
what we can pull off.
Um and uh you know that that'llbe down the road, but um but
I'm excited to see what comes.
Chris (24:14):
And are there any other dates coming up of shows that
that's the other thing?
Blake (24:17):
Yeah, we're uh we're going out with the Ravenettes.
Um I think uh oh I don't haveall the dates in front of me,
but um I'll post them on the onthe descriptor, but you're on
the road soon.
Chris (24:31):
Like you go out for how long how long's this run for?
Blake (24:33):
Yeah, I think we got uh five shows with them.
Um got Chicago, New Jersey, NewYork, Philadelphia, and DC, I
think.
Chris (24:43):
Um those lucky buggers.
Anyway, eventually I definitelywant you to bring uh your dirt
gaze up to uh cold Canada.
Have a have a listen in uh it'sbeen just such a pleasure we
can all the best too with uhthis record, the one coming down
the pipe, which will besometime and also your shows.
(25:07):
Um keep uh keep finding that uhmagic that you guys are
producing, and uh I mean it justsparks.
So congratulations on thisrecord.
And people out there, go checkone of those shows if you're in
that area.
Uh get a t-shirt by the record,support these guys.
Um you will thank uh Blake fordoing it, and you'll thank me
(25:28):
for having him on the cast.
So Blake, thanks so much, anduh thank you.
Take care of yourself.
Speaker 02 (25:35):
You two You've got your million dollars and a
handful of roses.
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