October 21, 2025 • 29 mins
A sunlit hook can feel like a hand on your shoulder. That’s the energy we chase with Zane Ruttenberg of Thanks Light, as we unpack how Good Timing blends tropical psych shimmer, country ease, and harmony-rich craftsmanship into a record that invites you to stay for the whole side. Zane takes us from his backseat education with The Byrds and the Beach Boys to a lifelong obsession with layered vocals and melodies that last, sharing the human moments that seed lyrics—like a rough morning that turned into a song-worthy phrase.
We get inside the engine room of collaboration. Zane’s ear-trained, punk-spirited songwriting meets the classical rigour of longtime partner Michael Frels, creating friction that sharpens ideas without killing their spark. That push and pull shows up in arrangements that know what to protect—a defining riff, a hooky bassline—and what to open up for play. Along the way, we talk rotating lineups, shared fingerprints on records, and the quiet, unglamorous truth of trusting people after long van rides and late nights. It’s a portrait of a project that feels more like an art collective than a fixed band, yet still manages to sound unmistakably like Thanks Light.
Then we zoom in on Good Timing itself: the faux radio stinger that frames the album’s world, the exotica nods on the nine-minute closer, and the sequencing that makes each song feel necessary. Zane name-checks influences from Martin Denny and Jimmy Buffett to Granddaddy and Texas country pillars, weaving them into a sound that’s escapist without being empty. Finally, he teases what’s next—two albums tracked in parallel, one bright and breezy, the other tender and blue—both shaped to feel cohesive from first note to last.
If you love harmony-rich indie, tropical psych colours, and songs built to last, hit play, follow the show, and leave a review to tell us which moment stuck with you most. Your notes guide future conversations and help more listeners find the music.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Thanks Light... (00:00):
One, two, one, two, three, and with such a I
can stay your hair like And ifyou break my heart, I'll tell
you.
(00:30):
All right.
Welcome everyone.
We're here, another episode ofthe ifitbeyourwill podcast.
Um, trying to find the mostamazing indie artists out there
uh worldwide.
Um, and I have a very nicetreat for us today.
I'm reaching down to Austin,Texas, and I have Zane
Ruttenberg, who's a part.
Well, who is Thanks Light?
(00:52):
Um, a great, great psych rockband.
I mean, they got some tropicalinfluences, country influences.
It's whimsical, it's fun.
It just makes me feel like Imiss summer.
It makes me feel like I misssummer.
That's definitely.
But Zane, thanks so much, man,for coming on here.
I've really, really beenenjoying.
Zane just put out this recordcalled Good Time, uh, Good
(01:14):
Timing, sorry, uh, just thisyear, and it's just been
blasting through my speakers fora pretty steady since it's come
out, I'd say.
So thanks for putting that out,Zane.
It's amazing.
No, that's that makes me sohappy to hear that.
Uh, thank you for sharing that.
Um, it's it's a record that'sso individual too.
Like, you don't hear thosesounds much, but we'll talk
(01:35):
about that record a little bitin a little bit.
But I like to start these off,saying, with just a little where
did all this start for you?
Like, where did music start tobecome like, hey, I think I
might like this, and maybe Iwant to try to see if I can
pursue this as a part of who Iam.
Zane Ruttenberg (01:54):
I I've been I've been obsessed with music.
I mean, since I think I firstheard it in my dad's car when I
was, you know, I mean, you know,growing up, uh, my dad and mom
had great taste in music.
You know, I grew up listeningto like the The Birds, Neil
Young, obviously the Beatles,but like the Beach Boys, the
(02:14):
Rolling Stones, just like allthose classics, right?
And um, you know, I I reallylove like just harmony, vocal
harmony.
And I think a lot of thatprobably had to do with the fact
that I grew up listening toBrian Wilson's compositions and
the birds, who I think are likepeak classic rock harmony bands,
(02:36):
you know.
I mean, just angelic vocals.
Um, so yeah, I mean it's it'sbeen ever since I was little,
I've been obsessed.
You know, my family used to sayI had tunes in my head because
I was singing all the time.
And then when I was 10 yearsold, I got my first guitar and
it was all over from there, youknow.
Um I and more than anything, Iwanted to be in a band, you
(02:56):
know.
I love songwriting, but I lovethe idea of being in a band.
So I think a lot of my identityrevolves around bringing me and
my friends together to try andmake songs.
That to me is just fun becauseum, you know, I've definitely
recorded and written a lot ofstuff by myself, but there's
just so much more satisfactionto me in collaboration with
(03:17):
music.
colleyc (03:18):
Right.
Zane Ruttenberg (03:18):
Right.
And I tend to find that the thethe songs end up stronger, you
know, if it's done right, ifyou're honest with each other,
and sometimes it's it's hard tobe honest with each other, so
yeah, it's a fragilerelationship ship at the times,
eh?
colleyc (03:34):
Being in a band, because you're revealing really
personal things about you tosomeone else that you want to
trust and confide in, but thatthey also see what you were
trying to see or put forth whatyou were trying to put forth.
Could you tell us, Zane, likeum you before we hopped on, you
had mentioned a collaboratorthat you had worked a lot with.
(03:54):
Can you explain thatrelationship and and the length
of time that you guys havecollaborated for and what's kept
that alive for so many years?
Zane Ruttenberg (04:02):
Yeah, I mean, uh my dear friend Michael
Frells, I've been working withhim uh on music, god, I mean,
forever when we since we werelike 19.
So 20 years probably now.
Um, and we've been in, I think,three, three or four bands.
I think three bands, if I canremember correctly.
(04:22):
Um and uh yeah, I mean, he'sjust kind of been, you know,
Thingslight Start as a soloproject when I was in high
school, and then I went tocollege and did a bunch of other
bands, and I really liked thename and came back to it.
And as a solo project, Ibrought it back as like a full
band where it was almost like uhI kind of almost describe it as
(04:43):
like an art collective.
You know, we have I'm usuallydoing the visual stuff, but as
far as like the arrangements andlike creating ideas, I have
like this rotating cast offriends that uh I've worked with
over the years.
Um, you know, some have leftand come back, you know.
Uh we just had uh one of ourour buddies, Paul, he was a
(05:05):
drummer on Three Records, and hecame back to play drums and
guitar for our album releaseparty.
Um and so yeah, I mean thecollaboration's a big part of
this project, and Michael Frelshas been a very consistent part
of that for a lot of hisproject's life.
colleyc (05:24):
What does Michael see and what you bring to him?
Like, does he does he have asimilar approach when you bring
him something new, or does italways kind of vary depending on
what the album is or what thetrack is?
Zane Ruttenberg (05:38):
Um, it's so interesting.
We come from such differentaspects of music.
He is a classically trainedpianist that was like top of his
class at the University ofTexas.
He's uh he's been an art he'sbeen a music teacher for like 20
years now.
So he just eats, sleeps, andbreathes music.
And you know, and like he'skind of like the more classical
theory side of it.
And then I'm more of like uhvery much a singer-songwriter
(06:00):
side of it, um, where um themusic is a huge part of it, but
also to me, it's like theconcept of the song, the lyrics,
the hook, all that.
And so we kind of approach itfrom two different sides, which
is actually, I think, great.
It shows a very a verydifferent perspective on the
music.
Um, and I feel like it reallylike reinforces it.
(06:21):
And I think for him, a lot ofwhat's uh so interesting, and
we've talked about this, is thatI come from, I mean, I know a
fair amount of music theory,I've taught myself a lot over
the years, but I come from avery untrained background.
I mean, it's a very like punkrock ethos, what I've come from,
and he's a very classicaltrained pianist.
So you have this like punk rocksongwriters pianists, you know,
(06:45):
meeting together, um merging,yeah, yeah.
And then that, you know, in alot of ways, you get all my
influences in there as well.
Um, yeah, so it's just likeit's really interesting to have
uh somebody from that other sideof the spectrum.
And I think that myuntrainedness to him, uh I just
kind of stumble into theseinteresting musical compositions
(07:07):
that are kind of uh just youknow, I'm very ear-trained, you
know.
Um very ear-trained.
Uh, and so I think that it'sjust like I'm going off a lot of
impulse and feeling, and Ithink as a classical musician,
he's like very like intrigued bythe fact that he's like, you
know, uh sometimes like you didthis crazy thing where you did
this thing and then you changedthis thing, and it's like
(07:30):
really, and I'm just like, Idon't know, I just thought it
sounded cool, man.
Like, you know, so it's likeit's really funny.
Just thought I should play alittle lower on the neck, or
this chord sounded weird and Iliked it, you know.
It's just like um it's a reallyfunny, great relationship, and
you know, also just like shoutout to the other other guys that
we've been working withforever, you know, Wes Sims and
(07:52):
Giuseppe Ponti, like they're myhomies that like we've been
working on this uh the goodtiming record together, and you
know, I I really appreciate justlike uh all my friends who have
helped me, you know.
I you know, the music wouldn'tbe the same without them, like
everybody's thumb prints are allover it.
And to me, I really love it.
It should kind of shows like uhdifferent chapters because I
(08:15):
mean gosh, we're you know, we'vehad so many different people
come through this group, andit's and so to me it's always
been such a it's like such a youknow, they come through, they I
kind of think of it as thenkind of helping sail a ship kind
of a little bit, right?
You know, they we all get onand we sail from one island to
(08:35):
the other, and then some peopleare like I'm getting off.
Oh you got good time andplaying in the back, yeah,
you're right.
And I'm like later, all right,you know, we'll be back.
And you know, some other peoplejump on and they help sail the
ship to the other island, andit's kind of like the metaphor,
I've always thought about it,because it is a it is a journey
and it does get tough, and youknow, but you end up just like
(08:57):
so close to these people becauseyou've been so vulnerable with
them, you've slept in crappyrooms in other cities with them,
you've you know, seen them attheir best and their worst, and
they've seen you at your bestand your worst.
colleyc (09:09):
Yeah, um, so there's not much place to hide anymore,
right?
It's just like you know who Iam, you know why I did that or
how I responded this way.
Zane Ruttenberg (09:19):
Yeah, you spend yeah, you spend a coup a week
in a van with somebody andthere's nowhere to hide, you
know.
colleyc (09:23):
So um that's it.
But Zayn, I mean, your writingis prorific.
I mean, you have a catalogthat's like this is not your
first record.
You've been I think the firstrecord 2008 was the one I found
Mother Kiss the Sun, which isjust you stripped down
beautiful.
I mean, it's just such a asinger-songwriting, indie folky,
like really touching album, Ifind.
Zane Ruttenberg (09:46):
Thank you.
colleyc (09:46):
And then it goes to the next, you know.
Then you have Alive and Nakedand the Hallucinations and
Cyclonaut and American Hamburgerand what like from 2008 pretty
much to right now, you've beenputting a record out each year
or every other year.
How do you how do you approachwriting these all these songs?
(10:08):
Like, how do they come to you?
Like, could you maybe like openthat box up on Zane's process
of songwriting and how songscome to you?
Yeah.
Zane Ruttenberg (10:19):
I mean it sounds so cliche and I feel like
I hear this a lot, but it'slike it really is like lightning
strikes, you know.
And like sometimes I'll havelike a phrase rattling around in
my head for like a month, ayear.
Sometimes I'll get a verse andI'll have it for 10 years.
I'm not even kidding.
I mean, a song on wildcatting Iwrote when I was 27 and got put
(10:41):
out when I was 30 36.
You know, and it took a longtime.
It took me 10 years to writethe the verse and record it with
a band and get a version that Iliked and put it on a vinyl
record.
Um, and so like for me, it'slike uh it all starts with
lightning strikes and I hear ahook.
colleyc (11:02):
Is that a phrase, Zane, like you're saying?
Like you'll hear words in yourhead, or you sometimes pick your
guitar up and then it it would,you know, escalate that faster.
Zane Ruttenberg (11:13):
It's like it like it's beamed.
I mean, this sounds so funny.
It like it's beamed in, youknow, it's like there's a m
suddenly I'm singing this melodyand I don't know where this
melody came from.
Right.
Or, you know, I was I wasplaying around with some
wordplay in my head, and youknow, like the song I Am Fire,
for example.
I wrote that, that was onWildcatting, right?
And I just I don't know how Ijust thought of that word, I am
(11:36):
fire, because I was just like, Iwas kind of like really hating
on myself one day.
I woke up hung over.
Um I had gone on a really baddate the night before, uh, and
just kind of sabotage the wholething.
And I literally woke up in bedthe next day and I just said, I
am fired of myself.
And uh and then it just stuckwith me for for like months.
(11:58):
It just rattled around in myhead, and eventually that turned
into a song.
So sometimes it starts with aphrase, you know, I'll I'll my
wife will say something and thenI'll go, That's that's a song
lyric, or that's a you know,there's something there, you
know, and I'll write it down.
I have like it's it's all overthe place, scraps of paper in my
(12:18):
notes in my phone.
I mean, I'm ADHD to all hell.
Um, and so uh it's just likevery just like I mean, you know,
you kind of get a sense from myoffice, but it's just like it's
a total just like uh mess inhere in a good way.
It's my it's my mess.
colleyc (12:34):
Well, I mean, it's your mess.
So I'm sure you could I ask youfor one thing, you'd know
exactly where it is, right?
So it's it's perception, Iguess, in in a sense.
Um yeah, that's so it's kind oflike gathering from here,
there, and everywhere, justthrough processing life and
experiences and always, right?
Zane Ruttenberg (12:54):
Like, because I mean it has to like my ultimate
goal is to connect withsomebody right out there, and
that's what like great musicdoes to me, is it's like
somebody like reaches outthrough time and space and they
have this idea and it resonateswith you.
And like that's my ultimategoal.
And so it's like if I'mwriting, I need to write
something that like meanssomething to me, so hopefully it
(13:15):
means something out there tosomebody else.
And so it's always coming fromlike a genuine earnest place of
just like existence as a humanhere on earth, and just like
kind of the human conditionthat's kind of my like mantra,
okay.
And um and so it's like okay,the song beams in, right?
I get like a scrap of the song,and sometimes I'll flesh out
(13:38):
like a demo on my phone.
So that on my phone, there'sjust all these crappy demos, and
I'll record it, and then I'llusually have it bouncing around
in my head for a couple days,and it'll either get stuck or
not.
And I think a lot of thatrelies on like the hook and the
melody.
And sometimes I'll come backand be like, This is crap, and
just throw it in the trash.
And then sometimes I'll comeback and be like, This is going
on the next record.
(13:58):
And for me, it's constantlycatch up.
I have three records I'm aboutto start recording, one of which
I segmented off that's gonna belike a different thing, and two
others that I kind of haveplans for, and it's just like
amazing, constantly catching upwith myself and trying to clear
my plate kind of thing of ideasI have, and I want to get them
(14:19):
recorded and out while they'restill fresh and inspiring to me,
too.
So it's like there's like thislike perfect moment where you
have like I think for some somesongs, like they kind of fizzle
out um if you don't record themfast enough.
It's almost like they kind ofhave a shelf life.
Right, right.
colleyc (14:37):
And when when you finally have come to okay, I
have kind of an idea of what Iwant to do, I have the basic
structure, lyrics, maybe youhave to add a couple in, adjust,
whatever.
When you bring them to yourcollaborators, is it is it
pretty much settled how the songstruck structure is gonna be,
(14:59):
or do they add a change?
You know, like do you allowgoing off on different lanes and
oh let's try that out, and orwe'll add that in there?
Like when you bring your songs,are they pretty much the way
you want them?
Or you're saying, here's asong, let's have fun.
Zane Ruttenberg (15:17):
Some you know, it really varies song to song.
Like sometimes I'll come in andbe like, it's got this has got
to be the arrangement, and thensometimes I'll come in and be
like, I I don't know.
Sometimes I'll come in and belike, this bass line is an
essential part of the hook, andyou know, juice, I need you to
learn this exact bass line.
Or sometimes I'll be like, Idon't know, you know, it's a
(15:38):
country beat, you play to thekick, figure it out.
So it really just like itreally does vary song to song,
and I think a lot of it justdepends on what I've put
together in the demo processbecause sometimes with a song,
like the bass is an essentialcomponent, and it the bass has
to be a certain way for it towork with the hook or the
(16:00):
timing.
Sometimes it's like thesecertain elements are really
important to like making acomposition a composition.
It's like, you know, what ifwhat if uh this is a funny okay?
Uh of course, this is the firstexample.
I don't know why Guns and Rosescame to head to my mind, but
it's like okay, Slash comes inand plays the riff for Sweet
Child of Mine, right?
That's an that's an essentialelement of what you think of
(16:24):
when you think of that song.
And like it wouldn't be SweetChild of Mind if they changed
that riff, maybe, right?
And so when maybe when Slashand Axel were writing that song
together, you know, uh, youknow, that was kind of like a
no, that was like a no-brainerthat that wasn't gonna get
changed, or maybe they didn'tquite have it when they went to
the studio and the otherguitarists, like who knows?
(16:45):
But it's like, you know, it'svery good example.
colleyc (16:47):
There's you know, I like that.
I like it.
It that makes a ton of sense,you know.
Like there's just some thatsome certain things that are
there that you produced orcreated, and you're just like,
no, it's really gotta stayreally close to that, because
that's that's the essence of thesong, right?
There, you know, it's it it itgives people that marker of ooh,
this song, you know, as opposedto any other.
(17:09):
Um and I I was curious too,like, have you found that you're
you're you're well, I mean it'spretty it's obvious, but maybe
let me rephrase it.
How did you come to creatingthis style of good timing?
Because when I listened to theearlier records, you know, I
mean wildcatting and you know,American hamburger, I mean
(17:31):
they're still they have thatpsych and that dusty, you know,
country tinge and stuff to them.
But then you've you've broughtbirds in, you know, you as you
referenced before, the beachboys and Brian Wilson.
It just feels somebody one ofyour critics, I'll read what
they well, they they quoted itthis way a hammock drifting
(17:53):
island infused record.
Now, were you is that what youwere out to make when you
started good timing?
Zane Ruttenberg (18:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm like I'm slowly settling in,
I think, on this style that Iwant to try and make for a
while.
Where but it is gonna shift,you know.
It's like it's the next recordis gonna sound like this, but I
really want it's funny, I I grewup listening to a lot of Jimmy
Buffett, and um along withclassic rock, along with punk
(18:23):
rock, so it's like you know, theRamones, Jimmy Buffett, David
Bowie, you know, LeonardSkinnard, it's all in there.
And and then of course,country.
I mean, I grew up in Austin,Texas.
So Willie Nelson, WhelanJennings, J Jeff Walker, uh
Dolly Parton, you know, thosethose are all like major
influences.
(18:44):
And for me, it's like um I alsolove I also love exotica music,
Martin Denny.
And I mean, you know, the lasttrack on good timing is my
attempt at an exotica song.
Okay, um, you know, and so it,you know, it kind of ends up
being, you know, a thanksslideified exotica song, but
it's like that's like my exoticathrough my filter, right?
(19:06):
And uh I I did it was a whilewhere we were putting, we were
just kind of going in andcutting songs, and I was kind of
just what I was doing is I wastaking songs that just like
worked together as a singlebecause I originally wanted to
do like seven inches, okay.
And then I was kind of likelooking at these four songs that
we had done, and I was like,these all work great together,
and and then I was working onthis exotica song, and I was
(19:27):
like, this would work great as aB side to like a record for
this, and then um I think thisradio station reached out to me.
Sorry, radio station, I forgetwhich one, asking me to make a
stinger for them, and I gottotally like sidetracked, of
course.
Um, but I was like, it would beso cool to kind of make like a
thanks light radio stinger forthis record, almost kind of like
(19:50):
you're tuning into a recordstation introducing the record
and as almost like a concept, soit slowly kind of crystallized,
and I knew that I wanted themall to be together and I wanted
them to have this kind of vibe,but I feel like this record's
kind of set me off in thisdirection, which I really like.
Where I want to make like umkind of like you know the band
(20:14):
Granddaddy, if you're listeningto them, yeah, totally.
Oh, I love Granddaddy so much,I'm so glad they're touring
again.
I want to go see one of theirshows so badly.
colleyc (20:22):
Yeah, incredible.
Zane Ruttenberg (20:23):
They just had a couple of reissues too, eh?
Oh god, the sophomore slump andjust it was standing.
Absolutely phenomenal records,huge part of my life.
And Granddaddy kind of like Irealized like Jason, Jason Lytle
is like just a huge influencein that he really does just kind
of blend.
He like blends aha with likecountry with grunge with all
these cool sounds, and like youknow, I think without even
(20:46):
realizing it, I kind of you knowa lot of artists do that,
right?
You just you love you want tomake what you love, and yeah, so
for me it's like I'm kind ofshooting for this more um
country laid back, countrytropical rock music.
I don't even yeah, psych and ofcourse psychedelic.
colleyc (21:05):
I think you you nailed it with it.
I mean, it's six tracks, but Imean the last track's nine
minutes, yeah.
But it's they're they'recatchy, they're like they swoon
you into like the weekend.
Thank you, thank you.
The songwriting is solid and Ilove the arrangement.
I think how you sequence thoserec the songs together.
(21:28):
Um, it just really builds andbuilds, and it's not a you can't
pull it out as a single, let mejust listen to Costa Rica.
It needs to be followed byStand in the Sunshine, or it's
like it doesn't feel complete,you know.
So I really admire how you putthose songs together in that
sequence.
Thank you.
And they all do have that feel,that like warm sunshine
(21:53):
tropical hug to them.
And the washed out vocals.
I mean, I just love that, likethat, and that's what what what
granddaddy was so good at too,hey?
Kind of washing those out orputting them through like an old
radio speaker or like all kindsof different experimenting, you
know, just trying things out.
So when you said that, I'mlike, yeah, he's doing this.
(22:15):
That's what he he does.
Uh so accurate how youdescribes that.
That's amazing.
Zane Ruttenberg (22:21):
I love I love that you're able to draw that
connection.
Like, I mean, straight up,well, it's like you'll like
emulate what you your heroes do,right?
So it's like uh on CaliforniaSober, there's this one section
where I'm like, Dana forum uh inbeef space.
There's like a call andresponse in there, and I was
like straight up like I totallygot this idea from granddaddy.
(22:43):
I totally just like borrowedthis technique from granddaddy.
I feel like I've heard this ingranddaddy's songs, and now I'm
able to apply it here.
But I mean, that's just like tome, that's the ultimate
compliment, right?
colleyc (22:53):
I mean, they're my heroes, I'm totally you know,
and um you've been doing thisfor a long time, so you've had
lots of practice at your craft,and it totally shows.
Um you're putting stuff out,like I've just felt that and I
try I try to start with thefirst records and I like go
through the years, and I'vereally just felt this
(23:14):
progression.
Um, and I've seen morecollaborators, you know, come in
and come out, like you said.
Like sometimes it's the same,sometimes it's new, but it keeps
it always fresh and kind ofexciting because you're not
really gonna expecting what youknow.
Like, I never expected goodtiming to sound like it does.
It's like it just was likereally fun.
So I appreciate that.
(23:35):
So, Zayn, as we kind of wrapthings here, again, thanks so
much for this.
This has been really fun.
Zane Ruttenberg (23:40):
Thank you so much, Chris.
colleyc (23:41):
This has been great stories, great examples.
It's just been really, reallyfun to kind of get to see your
story a bit.
But what can we look forwardto?
You said you had three recordskind of here and there and
everywhere.
Are you heading out on theroad?
Is there anything that youcould tell us what's coming up
for Thanks Light?
Zane Ruttenberg (23:58):
I think uh right now I'm just really
focused on recording.
Um, and I'm I'm I'm we're gonnathere'll be some like solo
out-of-town shows.
We just had a huge albumrelease party that was a blast.
We have another, I'm gonna playlike an acoustic set with a
couple other members at Antone'sRecords here in Austin for
another little showcase.
And then I think you know,regional out-of-town shows here
(24:20):
and there, but really, you know,I'm focusing on these next two
records, you know.
Good timing is a fluke in away, but I want to continue that
because uh things like songsare just like sometimes so dark
and pessimistic sometimes, youknow, right?
Um, and sometimes they're not,they're brighter and happier.
And so I'm really trying tolike um sequence all these songs
(24:41):
I'm writing into albums thatare like cohesive.
That's like my goal.
And so I kind of have this likereally bright, happy, country,
tropical record I'm working on,and then this like really
melancholy other record.
So those are gonna be probablygetting tracked simultaneously
just to save time with in thestudio setups and stuff like
(25:02):
that.
Um, but yeah, just tracking,tracking, tracking.
I wanna, I would just want toput out a lot of music in the
next uh couple years and I don'treally get on with my
collaborators, so yeah, totally.
colleyc (25:15):
It's good when you're like kind of like you said
before, when lightning strikes,it feels like lightning striking
again, like and you're on thisgreat thread right now.
If if we can anticipatesomething similar to this record
that you're working on, life isbeautiful.
Um so thank you.
I love this thread that you'reon right now.
Yeah, well, I want to thank youa lot and uh wish you all the
(25:38):
best with the next albums comingout.
And thanks, whenever you have anext record coming, Zayn, we
could just keep talking forhours.
I know it, but uh, I want torespect our time all the time.
Um we'll definitely I'lldefinitely reach out, come the
next record, and we couldcontinue this.
I would love that.
Zane Ruttenberg (25:54):
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Honestly, I I really appreciateyour in-depth look into uh our
music, my music.
It really means a lot.
So thank you.
Cool.
I love it.
So keep it keep it up.
Thanks Light... (26:05):
Right on gears.
One, two, one, two, three, and with such a I
can stay your hair like And ifyou break my heart, I'll tell
you.
(00:30):
All right.
Welcome everyone.
We're here, another episode ofthe ifitbeyourwill podcast.
Um, trying to find the mostamazing indie artists out there
uh worldwide.
Um, and I have a very nicetreat for us today.
I'm reaching down to Austin,Texas, and I have Zane
Ruttenberg, who's a part.
Well, who is Thanks Light?
(00:52):
Um, a great, great psych rockband.
I mean, they got some tropicalinfluences, country influences.
It's whimsical, it's fun.
It just makes me feel like Imiss summer.
It makes me feel like I misssummer.
That's definitely.
But Zane, thanks so much, man,for coming on here.
I've really, really beenenjoying.
Zane just put out this recordcalled Good Time, uh, Good
(01:14):
Timing, sorry, uh, just thisyear, and it's just been
blasting through my speakers fora pretty steady since it's come
out, I'd say.
So thanks for putting that out,Zane.
It's amazing.
No, that's that makes me sohappy to hear that.
Uh, thank you for sharing that.
Um, it's it's a record that'sso individual too.
Like, you don't hear thosesounds much, but we'll talk
(01:35):
about that record a little bitin a little bit.
But I like to start these off,saying, with just a little where
did all this start for you?
Like, where did music start tobecome like, hey, I think I
might like this, and maybe Iwant to try to see if I can
pursue this as a part of who Iam.
Zane Ruttenberg (01:54):
I I've been I've been obsessed with music.
I mean, since I think I firstheard it in my dad's car when I
was, you know, I mean, you know,growing up, uh, my dad and mom
had great taste in music.
You know, I grew up listeningto like the The Birds, Neil
Young, obviously the Beatles,but like the Beach Boys, the
(02:14):
Rolling Stones, just like allthose classics, right?
And um, you know, I I reallylove like just harmony, vocal
harmony.
And I think a lot of thatprobably had to do with the fact
that I grew up listening toBrian Wilson's compositions and
the birds, who I think are likepeak classic rock harmony bands,
(02:36):
you know.
I mean, just angelic vocals.
Um, so yeah, I mean it's it'sbeen ever since I was little,
I've been obsessed.
You know, my family used to sayI had tunes in my head because
I was singing all the time.
And then when I was 10 yearsold, I got my first guitar and
it was all over from there, youknow.
Um I and more than anything, Iwanted to be in a band, you
(02:56):
know.
I love songwriting, but I lovethe idea of being in a band.
So I think a lot of my identityrevolves around bringing me and
my friends together to try andmake songs.
That to me is just fun becauseum, you know, I've definitely
recorded and written a lot ofstuff by myself, but there's
just so much more satisfactionto me in collaboration with
(03:17):
music.
colleyc (03:18):
Right.
Zane Ruttenberg (03:18):
Right.
And I tend to find that the thethe songs end up stronger, you
know, if it's done right, ifyou're honest with each other,
and sometimes it's it's hard tobe honest with each other, so
yeah, it's a fragilerelationship ship at the times,
eh?
colleyc (03:34):
Being in a band, because you're revealing really
personal things about you tosomeone else that you want to
trust and confide in, but thatthey also see what you were
trying to see or put forth whatyou were trying to put forth.
Could you tell us, Zane, likeum you before we hopped on, you
had mentioned a collaboratorthat you had worked a lot with.
(03:54):
Can you explain thatrelationship and and the length
of time that you guys havecollaborated for and what's kept
that alive for so many years?
Zane Ruttenberg (04:02):
Yeah, I mean, uh my dear friend Michael
Frells, I've been working withhim uh on music, god, I mean,
forever when we since we werelike 19.
So 20 years probably now.
Um, and we've been in, I think,three, three or four bands.
I think three bands, if I canremember correctly.
(04:22):
Um and uh yeah, I mean, he'sjust kind of been, you know,
Thingslight Start as a soloproject when I was in high
school, and then I went tocollege and did a bunch of other
bands, and I really liked thename and came back to it.
And as a solo project, Ibrought it back as like a full
band where it was almost like uhI kind of almost describe it as
(04:43):
like an art collective.
You know, we have I'm usuallydoing the visual stuff, but as
far as like the arrangements andlike creating ideas, I have
like this rotating cast offriends that uh I've worked with
over the years.
Um, you know, some have leftand come back, you know.
Uh we just had uh one of ourour buddies, Paul, he was a
(05:05):
drummer on Three Records, and hecame back to play drums and
guitar for our album releaseparty.
Um and so yeah, I mean thecollaboration's a big part of
this project, and Michael Frelshas been a very consistent part
of that for a lot of hisproject's life.
colleyc (05:24):
What does Michael see and what you bring to him?
Like, does he does he have asimilar approach when you bring
him something new, or does italways kind of vary depending on
what the album is or what thetrack is?
Zane Ruttenberg (05:38):
Um, it's so interesting.
We come from such differentaspects of music.
He is a classically trainedpianist that was like top of his
class at the University ofTexas.
He's uh he's been an art he'sbeen a music teacher for like 20
years now.
So he just eats, sleeps, andbreathes music.
And you know, and like he'skind of like the more classical
theory side of it.
And then I'm more of like uhvery much a singer-songwriter
(06:00):
side of it, um, where um themusic is a huge part of it, but
also to me, it's like theconcept of the song, the lyrics,
the hook, all that.
And so we kind of approach itfrom two different sides, which
is actually, I think, great.
It shows a very a verydifferent perspective on the
music.
Um, and I feel like it reallylike reinforces it.
(06:21):
And I think for him, a lot ofwhat's uh so interesting, and
we've talked about this, is thatI come from, I mean, I know a
fair amount of music theory,I've taught myself a lot over
the years, but I come from avery untrained background.
I mean, it's a very like punkrock ethos, what I've come from,
and he's a very classicaltrained pianist.
So you have this like punk rocksongwriters pianists, you know,
(06:45):
meeting together, um merging,yeah, yeah.
And then that, you know, in alot of ways, you get all my
influences in there as well.
Um, yeah, so it's just likeit's really interesting to have
uh somebody from that other sideof the spectrum.
And I think that myuntrainedness to him, uh I just
kind of stumble into theseinteresting musical compositions
(07:07):
that are kind of uh just youknow, I'm very ear-trained, you
know.
Um very ear-trained.
Uh, and so I think that it'sjust like I'm going off a lot of
impulse and feeling, and Ithink as a classical musician,
he's like very like intrigued bythe fact that he's like, you
know, uh sometimes like you didthis crazy thing where you did
this thing and then you changedthis thing, and it's like
(07:30):
really, and I'm just like, Idon't know, I just thought it
sounded cool, man.
Like, you know, so it's likeit's really funny.
Just thought I should play alittle lower on the neck, or
this chord sounded weird and Iliked it, you know.
It's just like um it's a reallyfunny, great relationship, and
you know, also just like shoutout to the other other guys that
we've been working withforever, you know, Wes Sims and
(07:52):
Giuseppe Ponti, like they're myhomies that like we've been
working on this uh the goodtiming record together, and you
know, I I really appreciate justlike uh all my friends who have
helped me, you know.
I you know, the music wouldn'tbe the same without them, like
everybody's thumb prints are allover it.
And to me, I really love it.
It should kind of shows like uhdifferent chapters because I
(08:15):
mean gosh, we're you know, we'vehad so many different people
come through this group, andit's and so to me it's always
been such a it's like such a youknow, they come through, they I
kind of think of it as thenkind of helping sail a ship kind
of a little bit, right?
You know, they we all get onand we sail from one island to
(08:35):
the other, and then some peopleare like I'm getting off.
Oh you got good time andplaying in the back, yeah,
you're right.
And I'm like later, all right,you know, we'll be back.
And you know, some other peoplejump on and they help sail the
ship to the other island, andit's kind of like the metaphor,
I've always thought about it,because it is a it is a journey
and it does get tough, and youknow, but you end up just like
(08:57):
so close to these people becauseyou've been so vulnerable with
them, you've slept in crappyrooms in other cities with them,
you've you know, seen them attheir best and their worst, and
they've seen you at your bestand your worst.
colleyc (09:09):
Yeah, um, so there's not much place to hide anymore,
right?
It's just like you know who Iam, you know why I did that or
how I responded this way.
Zane Ruttenberg (09:19):
Yeah, you spend yeah, you spend a coup a week
in a van with somebody andthere's nowhere to hide, you
know.
colleyc (09:23):
So um that's it.
But Zayn, I mean, your writingis prorific.
I mean, you have a catalogthat's like this is not your
first record.
You've been I think the firstrecord 2008 was the one I found
Mother Kiss the Sun, which isjust you stripped down
beautiful.
I mean, it's just such a asinger-songwriting, indie folky,
like really touching album, Ifind.
Zane Ruttenberg (09:46):
Thank you.
colleyc (09:46):
And then it goes to the next, you know.
Then you have Alive and Nakedand the Hallucinations and
Cyclonaut and American Hamburgerand what like from 2008 pretty
much to right now, you've beenputting a record out each year
or every other year.
How do you how do you approachwriting these all these songs?
(10:08):
Like, how do they come to you?
Like, could you maybe like openthat box up on Zane's process
of songwriting and how songscome to you?
Yeah.
Zane Ruttenberg (10:19):
I mean it sounds so cliche and I feel like
I hear this a lot, but it'slike it really is like lightning
strikes, you know.
And like sometimes I'll havelike a phrase rattling around in
my head for like a month, ayear.
Sometimes I'll get a verse andI'll have it for 10 years.
I'm not even kidding.
I mean, a song on wildcatting Iwrote when I was 27 and got put
(10:41):
out when I was 30 36.
You know, and it took a longtime.
It took me 10 years to writethe the verse and record it with
a band and get a version that Iliked and put it on a vinyl
record.
Um, and so like for me, it'slike uh it all starts with
lightning strikes and I hear ahook.
colleyc (11:02):
Is that a phrase, Zane, like you're saying?
Like you'll hear words in yourhead, or you sometimes pick your
guitar up and then it it would,you know, escalate that faster.
Zane Ruttenberg (11:13):
It's like it like it's beamed.
I mean, this sounds so funny.
It like it's beamed in, youknow, it's like there's a m
suddenly I'm singing this melodyand I don't know where this
melody came from.
Right.
Or, you know, I was I wasplaying around with some
wordplay in my head, and youknow, like the song I Am Fire,
for example.
I wrote that, that was onWildcatting, right?
And I just I don't know how Ijust thought of that word, I am
(11:36):
fire, because I was just like, Iwas kind of like really hating
on myself one day.
I woke up hung over.
Um I had gone on a really baddate the night before, uh, and
just kind of sabotage the wholething.
And I literally woke up in bedthe next day and I just said, I
am fired of myself.
And uh and then it just stuckwith me for for like months.
(11:58):
It just rattled around in myhead, and eventually that turned
into a song.
So sometimes it starts with aphrase, you know, I'll I'll my
wife will say something and thenI'll go, That's that's a song
lyric, or that's a you know,there's something there, you
know, and I'll write it down.
I have like it's it's all overthe place, scraps of paper in my
(12:18):
notes in my phone.
I mean, I'm ADHD to all hell.
Um, and so uh it's just likevery just like I mean, you know,
you kind of get a sense from myoffice, but it's just like it's
a total just like uh mess inhere in a good way.
It's my it's my mess.
colleyc (12:34):
Well, I mean, it's your mess.
So I'm sure you could I ask youfor one thing, you'd know
exactly where it is, right?
So it's it's perception, Iguess, in in a sense.
Um yeah, that's so it's kind oflike gathering from here,
there, and everywhere, justthrough processing life and
experiences and always, right?
Zane Ruttenberg (12:54):
Like, because I mean it has to like my ultimate
goal is to connect withsomebody right out there, and
that's what like great musicdoes to me, is it's like
somebody like reaches outthrough time and space and they
have this idea and it resonateswith you.
And like that's my ultimategoal.
And so it's like if I'mwriting, I need to write
something that like meanssomething to me, so hopefully it
(13:15):
means something out there tosomebody else.
And so it's always coming fromlike a genuine earnest place of
just like existence as a humanhere on earth, and just like
kind of the human conditionthat's kind of my like mantra,
okay.
And um and so it's like okay,the song beams in, right?
I get like a scrap of the song,and sometimes I'll flesh out
(13:38):
like a demo on my phone.
So that on my phone, there'sjust all these crappy demos, and
I'll record it, and then I'llusually have it bouncing around
in my head for a couple days,and it'll either get stuck or
not.
And I think a lot of thatrelies on like the hook and the
melody.
And sometimes I'll come backand be like, This is crap, and
just throw it in the trash.
And then sometimes I'll comeback and be like, This is going
on the next record.
(13:58):
And for me, it's constantlycatch up.
I have three records I'm aboutto start recording, one of which
I segmented off that's gonna belike a different thing, and two
others that I kind of haveplans for, and it's just like
amazing, constantly catching upwith myself and trying to clear
my plate kind of thing of ideasI have, and I want to get them
(14:19):
recorded and out while they'restill fresh and inspiring to me,
too.
So it's like there's like thislike perfect moment where you
have like I think for some somesongs, like they kind of fizzle
out um if you don't record themfast enough.
It's almost like they kind ofhave a shelf life.
Right, right.
colleyc (14:37):
And when when you finally have come to okay, I
have kind of an idea of what Iwant to do, I have the basic
structure, lyrics, maybe youhave to add a couple in, adjust,
whatever.
When you bring them to yourcollaborators, is it is it
pretty much settled how the songstruck structure is gonna be,
(14:59):
or do they add a change?
You know, like do you allowgoing off on different lanes and
oh let's try that out, and orwe'll add that in there?
Like when you bring your songs,are they pretty much the way
you want them?
Or you're saying, here's asong, let's have fun.
Zane Ruttenberg (15:17):
Some you know, it really varies song to song.
Like sometimes I'll come in andbe like, it's got this has got
to be the arrangement, and thensometimes I'll come in and be
like, I I don't know.
Sometimes I'll come in and belike, this bass line is an
essential part of the hook, andyou know, juice, I need you to
learn this exact bass line.
Or sometimes I'll be like, Idon't know, you know, it's a
(15:38):
country beat, you play to thekick, figure it out.
So it really just like itreally does vary song to song,
and I think a lot of it justdepends on what I've put
together in the demo processbecause sometimes with a song,
like the bass is an essentialcomponent, and it the bass has
to be a certain way for it towork with the hook or the
(16:00):
timing.
Sometimes it's like thesecertain elements are really
important to like making acomposition a composition.
It's like, you know, what ifwhat if uh this is a funny okay?
Uh of course, this is the firstexample.
I don't know why Guns and Rosescame to head to my mind, but
it's like okay, Slash comes inand plays the riff for Sweet
Child of Mine, right?
That's an that's an essentialelement of what you think of
(16:24):
when you think of that song.
And like it wouldn't be SweetChild of Mind if they changed
that riff, maybe, right?
And so when maybe when Slashand Axel were writing that song
together, you know, uh, youknow, that was kind of like a
no, that was like a no-brainerthat that wasn't gonna get
changed, or maybe they didn'tquite have it when they went to
the studio and the otherguitarists, like who knows?
(16:45):
But it's like, you know, it'svery good example.
colleyc (16:47):
There's you know, I like that.
I like it.
It that makes a ton of sense,you know.
Like there's just some thatsome certain things that are
there that you produced orcreated, and you're just like,
no, it's really gotta stayreally close to that, because
that's that's the essence of thesong, right?
There, you know, it's it it itgives people that marker of ooh,
this song, you know, as opposedto any other.
(17:09):
Um and I I was curious too,like, have you found that you're
you're you're well, I mean it'spretty it's obvious, but maybe
let me rephrase it.
How did you come to creatingthis style of good timing?
Because when I listened to theearlier records, you know, I
mean wildcatting and you know,American hamburger, I mean
(17:31):
they're still they have thatpsych and that dusty, you know,
country tinge and stuff to them.
But then you've you've broughtbirds in, you know, you as you
referenced before, the beachboys and Brian Wilson.
It just feels somebody one ofyour critics, I'll read what
they well, they they quoted itthis way a hammock drifting
(17:53):
island infused record.
Now, were you is that what youwere out to make when you
started good timing?
Zane Ruttenberg (18:02):
Yeah, I mean, I'm like I'm slowly settling in,
I think, on this style that Iwant to try and make for a
while.
Where but it is gonna shift,you know.
It's like it's the next recordis gonna sound like this, but I
really want it's funny, I I grewup listening to a lot of Jimmy
Buffett, and um along withclassic rock, along with punk
(18:23):
rock, so it's like you know, theRamones, Jimmy Buffett, David
Bowie, you know, LeonardSkinnard, it's all in there.
And and then of course,country.
I mean, I grew up in Austin,Texas.
So Willie Nelson, WhelanJennings, J Jeff Walker, uh
Dolly Parton, you know, thosethose are all like major
influences.
(18:44):
And for me, it's like um I alsolove I also love exotica music,
Martin Denny.
And I mean, you know, the lasttrack on good timing is my
attempt at an exotica song.
Okay, um, you know, and so it,you know, it kind of ends up
being, you know, a thanksslideified exotica song, but
it's like that's like my exoticathrough my filter, right?
(19:06):
And uh I I did it was a whilewhere we were putting, we were
just kind of going in andcutting songs, and I was kind of
just what I was doing is I wastaking songs that just like
worked together as a singlebecause I originally wanted to
do like seven inches, okay.
And then I was kind of likelooking at these four songs that
we had done, and I was like,these all work great together,
and and then I was working onthis exotica song, and I was
(19:27):
like, this would work great as aB side to like a record for
this, and then um I think thisradio station reached out to me.
Sorry, radio station, I forgetwhich one, asking me to make a
stinger for them, and I gottotally like sidetracked, of
course.
Um, but I was like, it would beso cool to kind of make like a
thanks light radio stinger forthis record, almost kind of like
(19:50):
you're tuning into a recordstation introducing the record
and as almost like a concept, soit slowly kind of crystallized,
and I knew that I wanted themall to be together and I wanted
them to have this kind of vibe,but I feel like this record's
kind of set me off in thisdirection, which I really like.
Where I want to make like umkind of like you know the band
(20:14):
Granddaddy, if you're listeningto them, yeah, totally.
Oh, I love Granddaddy so much,I'm so glad they're touring
again.
I want to go see one of theirshows so badly.
colleyc (20:22):
Yeah, incredible.
Zane Ruttenberg (20:23):
They just had a couple of reissues too, eh?
Oh god, the sophomore slump andjust it was standing.
Absolutely phenomenal records,huge part of my life.
And Granddaddy kind of like Irealized like Jason, Jason Lytle
is like just a huge influencein that he really does just kind
of blend.
He like blends aha with likecountry with grunge with all
these cool sounds, and like youknow, I think without even
(20:46):
realizing it, I kind of you knowa lot of artists do that,
right?
You just you love you want tomake what you love, and yeah, so
for me it's like I'm kind ofshooting for this more um
country laid back, countrytropical rock music.
I don't even yeah, psych and ofcourse psychedelic.
colleyc (21:05):
I think you you nailed it with it.
I mean, it's six tracks, but Imean the last track's nine
minutes, yeah.
But it's they're they'recatchy, they're like they swoon
you into like the weekend.
Thank you, thank you.
The songwriting is solid and Ilove the arrangement.
I think how you sequence thoserec the songs together.
(21:28):
Um, it just really builds andbuilds, and it's not a you can't
pull it out as a single, let mejust listen to Costa Rica.
It needs to be followed byStand in the Sunshine, or it's
like it doesn't feel complete,you know.
So I really admire how you putthose songs together in that
sequence.
Thank you.
And they all do have that feel,that like warm sunshine
(21:53):
tropical hug to them.
And the washed out vocals.
I mean, I just love that, likethat, and that's what what what
granddaddy was so good at too,hey?
Kind of washing those out orputting them through like an old
radio speaker or like all kindsof different experimenting, you
know, just trying things out.
So when you said that, I'mlike, yeah, he's doing this.
(22:15):
That's what he he does.
Uh so accurate how youdescribes that.
That's amazing.
Zane Ruttenberg (22:21):
I love I love that you're able to draw that
connection.
Like, I mean, straight up,well, it's like you'll like
emulate what you your heroes do,right?
So it's like uh on CaliforniaSober, there's this one section
where I'm like, Dana forum uh inbeef space.
There's like a call andresponse in there, and I was
like straight up like I totallygot this idea from granddaddy.
(22:43):
I totally just like borrowedthis technique from granddaddy.
I feel like I've heard this ingranddaddy's songs, and now I'm
able to apply it here.
But I mean, that's just like tome, that's the ultimate
compliment, right?
colleyc (22:53):
I mean, they're my heroes, I'm totally you know,
and um you've been doing thisfor a long time, so you've had
lots of practice at your craft,and it totally shows.
Um you're putting stuff out,like I've just felt that and I
try I try to start with thefirst records and I like go
through the years, and I'vereally just felt this
(23:14):
progression.
Um, and I've seen morecollaborators, you know, come in
and come out, like you said.
Like sometimes it's the same,sometimes it's new, but it keeps
it always fresh and kind ofexciting because you're not
really gonna expecting what youknow.
Like, I never expected goodtiming to sound like it does.
It's like it just was likereally fun.
So I appreciate that.
(23:35):
So, Zayn, as we kind of wrapthings here, again, thanks so
much for this.
This has been really fun.
Zane Ruttenberg (23:40):
Thank you so much, Chris.
colleyc (23:41):
This has been great stories, great examples.
It's just been really, reallyfun to kind of get to see your
story a bit.
But what can we look forwardto?
You said you had three recordskind of here and there and
everywhere.
Are you heading out on theroad?
Is there anything that youcould tell us what's coming up
for Thanks Light?
Zane Ruttenberg (23:58):
I think uh right now I'm just really
focused on recording.
Um, and I'm I'm I'm we're gonnathere'll be some like solo
out-of-town shows.
We just had a huge albumrelease party that was a blast.
We have another, I'm gonna playlike an acoustic set with a
couple other members at Antone'sRecords here in Austin for
another little showcase.
And then I think you know,regional out-of-town shows here
(24:20):
and there, but really, you know,I'm focusing on these next two
records, you know.
Good timing is a fluke in away, but I want to continue that
because uh things like songsare just like sometimes so dark
and pessimistic sometimes, youknow, right?
Um, and sometimes they're not,they're brighter and happier.
And so I'm really trying tolike um sequence all these songs
(24:41):
I'm writing into albums thatare like cohesive.
That's like my goal.
And so I kind of have this likereally bright, happy, country,
tropical record I'm working on,and then this like really
melancholy other record.
So those are gonna be probablygetting tracked simultaneously
just to save time with in thestudio setups and stuff like
(25:02):
that.
Um, but yeah, just tracking,tracking, tracking.
I wanna, I would just want toput out a lot of music in the
next uh couple years and I don'treally get on with my
collaborators, so yeah, totally.
colleyc (25:15):
It's good when you're like kind of like you said
before, when lightning strikes,it feels like lightning striking
again, like and you're on thisgreat thread right now.
If if we can anticipatesomething similar to this record
that you're working on, life isbeautiful.
Um so thank you.
I love this thread that you'reon right now.
Yeah, well, I want to thank youa lot and uh wish you all the
(25:38):
best with the next albums comingout.
And thanks, whenever you have anext record coming, Zayn, we
could just keep talking forhours.
I know it, but uh, I want torespect our time all the time.
Um we'll definitely I'lldefinitely reach out, come the
next record, and we couldcontinue this.
I would love that.
Zane Ruttenberg (25:54):
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Honestly, I I really appreciateyour in-depth look into uh our
music, my music.
It really means a lot.
So thank you.
Cool.
I love it.
So keep it keep it up.
Thanks Light... (26:05):
Right on gears.
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