December 28, 2025 • 39 mins
What if the quickest way to sound like yourself is to stop chasing your heroes? That question sits at the centre of our conversation with Kevin Basko, the mind behind Rubber Band Gun—a project that slides easily between indie rock, psych, and playful concept albums, all shaped by a hands-on, hybrid analog setup where limits become part of the sound.
Basko traces his path from backyard lyric notebooks to a sudden elevator text that landed him in Foxygen’s touring band, sharpening his instincts without dulling his DIY core. We dig into RBG25, the self-imposed challenge to release dozens of records in a year, and how working fast reshaped his sense of tempo, arrangement, and when a song is actually done. Along the way, he talks borrowing without imitating, turning tradition into raw material, and why momentum—and not perfection—is the real engine of creative work.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
colleyc (00:46):
Welcome everyone back to another episode of
ifitbeyourwill Podcast.
We are probably halfwaythrough, maybe even more than
halfway through season six.
We'll see how uh the holidayseason goes, and uh but
regardless, today, um great,great uh well, a one a one-man
(01:08):
band, I guess we'd say, uh,rubber band gun uh coming out of
um Philadelphia.
Is that true, Kevin?
Kevin Kevin, Kevin, Basco.
Rubber Band Gun (01:18):
Yes, yes, yeah.
One one man, I guess, is a gooda good way to say it.
Uh out of Philadelphia.
colleyc (01:24):
Influenced probably by many, but I mean, you're a
one-man churning music machine.
Um and I'll tell you why I saythat in a minute, but I'm gonna
leave the suspense there for aminute.
But Kevin has just a a newrecord that came out to um
called the record deal with God.
This is from uh this year,September 18th, when it came
(01:46):
out.
And lo and behold, go to hisbandcamp page because um there's
a new thing on there almostevery week, which is lucky for
all of us out there.
Um, Kevin is a prolificsongwriter, and he like dabbles
this line of indie rock, psych.
I mean, it's verydo-it-yourselfy, um, lo-fi,
bedroom-y, you name it.
(02:08):
Uh and he's been doing this fora hell of a long time and's
produced a ton of stuff.
He also um runs the historicNew Jersey Records.
Kevin, is that correct insaying that?
It is correct.
Yep.
That is your studio and whereyou help other musicians uh
build their um sound.
Rubber Band Gun (02:29):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's like a recording
studio, also.
Um and some of the artists onhere that um that are very close
uh in proximity and just intomy heart are ones that I put out
on the historic Jersey label.
colleyc (02:43):
Nice.
Rubber Band Gun (02:44):
And it's it's hard to say label nowadays, but
it's it's like a music group inthe same way that modeled after
some of the great label studiotypes like your Stacks or your
Motown kind of thing, wherethere's there's a little bit of
um involvement in both sides ofit.
Um it's been it's been onlyabout a few years of that, and
it's not too too many have comeout on that, but it's it's a
(03:05):
it's certainly a growing kind ofthing we're doing here.
Awesome.
colleyc (03:08):
And is that all analog too, Kevin?
I read that that most of whatyou do, you love to just go
analog.
Rubber Band Gun (03:15):
Well, yeah, like analog's such a funny word
now.
It's like I like I for a longtime with this project, um, it
was mostly um tape.
Uh uh actually, this machinehere and and a few of the ones
back there.
Those were the kind of maincreative uh hubs that the songs
would be built on, uh figuredout on, and kind of mixed on,
(03:36):
even.
Uh in the last like four orfive years, I've started to
slowly uh try to get a littlemore of a what they call like a
hybrid setup where um it mightstart out on tape and then might
end up a little bit more workon the computer.
Right.
Um and then some of the recordsI've done recently have been uh
a little bit more computerworld, but uh it's always it's
(03:59):
weird, it's always like analogin the sense of there's quite a
lot of things outside of thecomputer that are affecting the
sound before.
Uh you can't really see there'squite a lot of old things here
that really make things soundthe way that I would like them
to sound.
My computer's very old, so itkind of keeps me from digging
(04:19):
too deep into the computerworld.
Um and I kind of like it thatway.
I like the I think what I likedabout tape and what I love
about tape still is thelimitations of the frame, so to
speak, where you could fillthings uh with with there being
a sort of sort of a wall thatyou hit uh in terms of your
ability, which I think is that'swhere a lot of um great art in
(04:41):
a lot of ways, you know, thelimitations are what define it.
I think that's and that'ssomething I've uh learned after
a long time.
So analog is tough word,though.
It's like it it it it is it isanalog.
It's certainly we we we dothings a lot of different ways
here though, but it's it'smostly the older methods.
colleyc (04:57):
Nice, nice.
And um I guess my firstquestion, Kevin, is I want to go
back a little bit just becauseI know that I mean your your
your um catalog is massive.
And I know you've been doingthis for you know a nice chunk
of time, but the amount that youput out is in one year is about
(05:20):
what an artist would put out intheir whole career.
Um when did this bug for musicstart for you?
When did when did music reallystart to like kick into your
heart and be like, yeah, this ismy direction in life?
Rubber Band Gun (05:34):
Yeah, so I kind of I have this memory that I've
been holding on to, especiallythe last like five years in
pandemic when we all started tokind of look reflect and look
inward.
And this memory of like beingon the trampoline as a little
kid, a little trampoline outback.
And I had this memory of uhsitting on laying on my
trampoline and like writing outlyrics and rewriting lyrics to
(05:59):
songs that had already beenwritten, almost like weird
alifying them, but not funny.
Just like how would I want tosing to like pop punk songs or
like like weird other hits ofthe time.
Um, and I remember going backsomewhat recently.
Actually, I gotta my dog iscrying, so I gotta like tuck him
into his bed.
Sorry, not good for yourpodcasters, but yeah, there you
(06:21):
go.
colleyc (06:22):
Make them look happy, happy dog, happy hot dog.
Rubber Band Gun (06:25):
Yeah, yeah, I gotta have him, uh gotta have
him chilling.
Um, but uh yeah, that's that'sa strong memory of you know
early uh like writing beforeanything else, you know, before
even meeting other people, youknow, no sense of collaboration.
But I think that's also whylike I've had this strong
connection to always, you know,the the do-it-yourself kind of
(06:47):
mindset.
And I think that, you know, Ikind of started out like I
didn't I didn't really have likea childhood music collaborator
friend or you know, I was in alot of bands, I've had great
music relationships with peopleover the years, but it's always
kind of been a very solidsolitary effort.
And I really like it that way,to be honest, and I find ways to
(07:07):
collaborate with people, butum, you know, I really, you
know, the the solo work of theBeatles, especially almost hits
me hard much harder than their.
I'm a big Beatles fan, but likethe early McCartney stuff where
he's playing it all.
Um, work of Richard Swift onhis own, um, obviously Todd
Rundgren.
These are people that when I umagain, I played in a lot of
(07:30):
bands throughout my years, butit was when I was at music
college playing in Boston with alot of different bands of a lot
of different genres, that I gota little bit frustrated at
times trying to um, you know,constantly, what do they say?
Like it's kind of like uh theplatypus is like a uh animal
(07:51):
built by committee, you know,the idea that how many people
get involved in the process.
I think that's important formusic.
And I've learned thatespecially the last years
producing, that thecollaborative process is is uh
can be obviously a lot richerthan a solo effort.
But I found that having theability to do it on my own,
there's nothing stopping it.
(08:12):
Uh the only one to get in yourown way or in the way is
yourself in that situation.
And that's kind of how I'vebeen able to make so much music.
And yeah, this project startedin 2013, and I think it was the
first effort to think hearing alot of bands.
Well, to be honest, uh uh, youknow, groups that were proving
it in the at the time, provingthe proof the proof of concept
(08:35):
rather, uh, were bands like uhTame Impala and MacDamarco, you
know, these were these were thiswas you know early 2010s, and
and realizing that you could doa lot of the things on your own,
and that there's its own sortof world that has that that that
contains.
So it's totally it's bands likethat that really kind of proved
(08:56):
that what I've always wanted todo, which is kind of just be
able to express things in my ownway, versus again having to be
in a band where you're reallycompromising.
There's not one obviously rightor wrong answer, but uh, I
think that that chunk of timewas really important for me uh
to kind of figure out that, oh,you know, it's okay to just do
your own thing, and andespecially if you uh and you
(09:19):
did.
colleyc (09:19):
I mean and you did.
Um I'm still get into that.
So I have this story that Iread.
So you finished school, youwent to a job fair, you left
joining Foxygen as a touringguitarist.
Like walk us through that storybecause I find it really
fascinating.
Rubber Band Gun (09:39):
Yeah, well, I I had become friends with um uh
Jonathan Redo of Oxygen uh atthe time just through meeting
him at a at a at a show.
I was actually in Boston goingto school, and I took the bus
down to see one of uh thedrummer of Oxygen, Diane
Coffey's name, Sean Fleming,great drummer, great musician,
(09:59):
great singer, see their debutshow at a club called Pianos in
New York.
And I saw uh Redo at the barand I spoke to him very briefly,
and we had a we had a prettyquick connection about um
influences, about just music,music in general.
And we became friends over thenext year, and then yeah, and
then I'm it was my last year ofcollege, and I uh when I was,
(10:23):
yeah, I was on the way to thethe you know office of Berkeley
that kind of helps you find ajob.
I was planning on being ateacher in New York, uh and
moving possibly with mygirlfriend at the time in New
York and do more of that kind ofstuff.
And um, yeah, I'm in theelevator and I get the text do
you want to play uh in the inthe in the star power band?
And I was uh I was very excitedabout that.
(10:44):
And I remember being next tothis girl, random girl in the
elevator, and I like kind oflike screamed, and I think I
scared her.
I was just very excited.
Yeah, that really that reallyset off a big long kind of uh
you know, because again, I I hadbeen around some of the best
musicians in the country and theand on the planet at Berkeley.
I mean, you you could say someof those musicians uh as far as
talent uh were some of the best.
(11:06):
And so to to find a way to gofrom that school to uh yes, like
joining one of my idol bands atthe time, but also just like
experiencing what the industrywas like at that time, the
touring industry, uh, as well asI mean, we we visited a lot of
other groups and studios andthings like that, just kind of
(11:27):
getting a door into seeing whatthe industry was like was um was
really uh was really important.
And that, you know, I hadalready had my my band, uh
rather my early demos for rubberband gun were kind of what got
me into Foxygen in terms of justthe the the proof of my
musicality, I guess.
colleyc (11:46):
Right.
Rubber Band Gun (11:46):
Um but yeah, that was that was a really uh
crazy time.
It's crazy, I think it's beenover a decade now.
That was like that was probablylike 2013.
colleyc (11:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And then you started thisjourney of your own in in
crafting and and building youryour catalog that I mean is just
I mean in continuous evolution.
Um there are two occasions thatI want to talk about because it
seemed like these two occasionsgot your the engine going
(12:18):
inside you to just write.
And one of them was called theRBG 25, which was yeah, yeah.
Can you 20 2019 this came outin or this idea, right?
During the pandemic, yeah,yeah.
Walk us through this, what whatthis challenge was for
yourself.
Rubber Band Gun (12:34):
Yeah, so that it kind of goes back again to uh
Jonathan Redo again, you know,at the time we were touring.
And um, you know, by that timeI had making quite made made
quite a few records.
I think up until then I maybemade like eight or nine records
in probably uh what it wasprobably in the group like a
seven-year span, which honestlyin hindsight, yeah.
(12:55):
I was at the time I wasprobably averaging like a record
a year, which is pretty typicalfor a lot of groups.
Um, and I uh was working at myparents' house.
And um we in 2019, it was likeearly of the year, and we were
kind of he was joking about howwe uh I should, you know, I
(13:15):
should just make like a crazyamount of albums that year.
Uh and it kind of like throughsome playful, you know, uh
banter kind of became a sort oflike uh challenge of sorts to
think that if I could do thatmany.
Um and then we had like a rulethat you know it had to have
like three or more songs becauseI'm I'm in this weird camp
(13:36):
where like I don't I kind ofdon't believe in like the
concept of like not the concept,but like of like an EP versus
an album.
Like I kind of think thatthings can be it feels weird to
like the way that we think.
I know it's obviously like longplay, extended play, but like I
think that there's somethingabout um you know length of an
album that uh it can feelcomplete in its right way with
(14:00):
maybe four songs.
I think I've heard things thatlike things like uh like Richard
Swift has done that's like acouple songs and it can it could
have its own life.
So conceptually we thought youknow that would be a fun uh
thing to do.
And up until then, I made a lotof records that were like it's
funny.
Uh you know, a lot of peopletry to retain a sort of
(14:22):
mystique, right?
Like I saw this video recentlyabout like I think it was like
geese were talking about how umyou know the beauty in in like
not telling people what thingsare about, uh songs are about.
Um and that led me down anotherrabbit hole that a great quote
by Paul Simon that was like umthe listener completes the song,
(14:44):
which which kind of means thatthe listener, if you don't tell
them what it's about, thelistener will put their own uh
interpretation on it, right?
Um my records up until thenwere about like hamburgers and
baseball and cars and and murdermystery parties.
And I had records, I I made auh a hospital-themed musical,
(15:05):
right?
So it's like these are a littlebit more ham-fisted things.
They were a little bit moreconceptually uh like uh a little
bit more thick themed, if youcould say that.
Um, there wasn't quite as muchlinchy and gray gray area where
you could interpret.
I mean, you could interpretmaybe some of the lyrics and
meanings, but at the end of theday, I mean, if the album, if
(15:26):
the album is called hamburger,you can kind of put put together
what, you know, like up there,that's the cover.
Um, you could put the two andtwo together.
So, you know, I I I do a fairamount of both, but I think that
that year, you know, I startedto there there were a lot of
conceptual ones.
Like there was like on thatyear, there was like music for
back rows, which was like musicthat was like supposed to be,
(15:47):
you know, uh whatever part ofthe body you were on, there was
the song that you would listento, right?
Like it was like there's theknees song or the the back song,
right?
Um, and then there was like thelike uh in the halls of the
presidents, which was likeambient music for each
president, you know.
Um what what maybe what thatpresident would sound like as a
(16:08):
you know noise, noisy song.
Um, but then there's ones thatwere a little bit more uh
classic rock, uh that were alittle more typical.
So I did a we did a lot of thatwas a really important year,
obviously, and just like whatrubber bang would become in
terms of just that was almostthat was the beginning of the
like prolific nature of rubberbang is I feel like I'd made a
(16:31):
lot of records, and I think evena record a year could be a lot
of music for some bands.
A lot of them, it's like everyother year, maybe every three
years.
Totally, totally sometimesthere was like one or two a
year.
Yeah, now the last sincepandemic, well, I think the
first year of pandemic, it waslike I think I put out maybe one
record in a bunch of singles.
The last three years, I've beenkind of keeping to around three
(16:53):
or four albums a year, and Ithink I found a bit of a sweet
spot because I mean, in additionto that, I'm producing like
seven or eight albums of otherpeople's during the year.
So it's there's a lot, it'salmost it's almost the same
amount of music being made withthe 25.
It's just kind of spread outover different groups.
Um, but um, yeah, I think thatthat year was 2019, was was a
(17:18):
big year for for me, for justbeing able to uh learn how to
produce.
Um, because I went to musicschool for songwriting and
arranging.
I didn't learn a single thingabout how to run a recording
studio, how to record, how toproduce, how to put a
microphone.
Like all of that was based offof me watching people I liked,
(17:38):
looking at the inside ofrecords, uh, looking where you
know Muscle Shoals would puttheir mics, like people at
records that I loved, I wouldlook at.
Um, and 2019 was a lot of metrying things out and figuring
out how to record myself alittle bit better uh and
sometimes worse for the purposeof it.
Right.
Um But yeah, that was certainlythe start of it, and that was
(18:01):
an important, important year forthe for the for the group for
sure.
colleyc (18:04):
I love it.
And Kevin, what's your how doyou go about this?
Like how do you like how do youget like is your do you have
like um because your backgroundin studying songwriting and do
you have a formula that you tendto follow?
And I hate saying formula, butdo you have a way that you pen
songs that allows you to churnthem um so quickly?
(18:28):
I mean, I read that yourwriting process is you like
doing quick, quick, quick songs,quick recordings.
What is it about your processthat allows you to be so
prolific?
Rubber Band Gun (18:40):
Well, I think that music, um, you know, I'm
I'm in that kind of camp ofmusic being, you know, tradition
in the way that um you don't Ithink a lot of the problems
people have that stop them fromwriting or stop them from being
creative is the idea of um beingtoo close to something that
exists or fear of not beingoriginal, all these things.
(19:03):
And you know, it's but it'sreally your failure to sound
like your heroes that makes yousound like yourself.
And that could date back allthe way to the classical period.
I mean, it's like that'ssomething that's always been
true.
There's only so many notes.
So I I found that um likeobviously people I I hear people
all the time that that do soundwholly original.
I bet those people too couldpoint me at what they are going
(19:26):
for.
I mean, you could say the samething for comics, you know, you
watch a rest of development andyou can see, and I've heard bit
videos of Mitch Hurowitz whocreated and right, wrote the
show, saying, Oh, that's just anAlbert Brooks joke, or that's
just a John Cleese joke.
And you see Tarantino, samething, saying, Oh, that's just a
Robert Altman thing, or that'sjust a, you know, that's just a
Scorsese thing, right?
So I hate to say the wordstealing because I don't, I
(19:48):
don't think I think that, youknow, bad songwriters steal,
good songwriters borrow, youknow, or know how to speak the
language.
I think that what I learned atmusic school.
School is I kind of learned abit of I well the big thing that
I think for music school was mymy ear was really beginning to
(20:09):
develop in a way that I couldthen if I hear a song I like I
could pretty quickly now figureout what I like about it and
then I could figure out how Ican apply that to what I might
want to do.
colleyc (20:22):
Right.
So uh Kevin, what what would bean example of that of something
that you like in a song?
Like is it is it a line, is ita lyric, a phrase, uh the chord
structure?
Like what's everything?
Like it could be.
Rubber Band Gun (20:36):
Everything, but it's about it's about finding
like what what you could dobest.
Like I think the big thing thatI think is impossible to be in
trouble for stealing is tempo.
I think tempo is where thingsstart.
It's also from a productionstandpoint where I look most
about when I'm looking atsomeone's song.
Um and that's something that isa huge blind spot for a
(20:58):
songwriter.
And and right rightfully so.
I mean, it's hard to thinkabout everything as the writer.
It's my job as the producer tohear maybe where the song, how
it can be restructured, how itcan be changed to maybe fit um
the optimal feeling and wherewhere you would be moving your
head if you were at a show,where how if you heard that song
live, how would you be movingaround in the audience?
(21:19):
Or if you're listening on yourcouch, how would it impact you?
So I think tempo is one of thebig things that I've learned.
When I hear like the righttempo with the right feelings
behind it, I can kind of do abad impression of that in my own
way.
And um, you know, it's it'salmost like a bad form of
(21:40):
mimicry or something when youwhen you do it right.
I mean, there it's really oneof those things though, it's
such a slippery, slippery slope.
I think you know, bad writersare are have a hard time with
this because uh they don't Idon't want to be mean, but I
think there's sometimes it'slike you you can hear when
something well, like an example,obviously, like like you know,
not saying because I thinkPharrell is a great producer,
(22:02):
but you like that whole thingwith like the blurred lines
plagiarism thing, you know, theyreally went so close to the sun
there that it's like uh it'sit's it's kind of um you know
they they could have found a wayto to to take what they liked
about that Marvin Gaye song andmade it a little bit more
(22:23):
original and they wouldn't havehad that whole problem.
And I think that it's yourability to like take what's been
like Bob Dylan says it a lotabout tradition, like music is
tradition and it doesn't reallybelong to anyone, but at the
same time um there is obviouslya a limit to that, and I think
when you're just like if you'reincapable of putting your own
(22:43):
spin on it, it shows and that'sa problem.
Um it's also just uninspiringto listen to something like
that.
Yeah.
colleyc (22:50):
Um when do you know, Kevin, like when you're on to
when you've tapped intosomething that you would like to
see on tape?
Like I'm sure that you havetons of throwaway songs as well.
Like when is it do you feellike this this idea is worth
kind of flushing out a littlebit more?
(23:10):
Yeah.
What is it about that when youknow, like, okay, uh this is
gonna be a good one?
Rubber Band Gun (23:16):
Well, I I kind of like I I I make the joke, I
kind of subscribe to like theMari Kondo, I think her name is
Mari Kondo, that um the sparkjoy method.
I don't know if you've seenthose videos of like she has
this book where like to likeclean your house, right?
You like pick up an object youhave, and if it sparks joy, you
keep it.
If it if you hold that object,it does not spark joy.
It's a word she uses spark joy.
(23:37):
If it doesn't, it it you canyou can throw it out.
Um and I think aiming, likewhen you figure out what that
feeling is, the same way youmight like know when something
has enough salt in it, like youwhen you have that kind of like
go alarm go off that there'ssomething here, um you kind of
just know, and and what I'vewhat I've learned enough about
(23:59):
like I've I did this record thatthe record that just came out
after Record Deal with Godcalled En Passant, which is
about it's a chess album.
That album I made um a quickstory about that.
I had there's a a guy who cameup, a documentary filmmaker guy,
came up from Texas.
His idea was he had thisdocumentary that he's still
editing, it's called Spitfire.
(24:20):
And the idea of it is that hewanted to just put the cameras
on, and uh without anythingpre-written, without anything, I
I had no pre-written material,we would just hit record on the
machine, and I would, I wouldkind of just go.
And that's that whole record.
It was made in three days.
Um, and halfway through makingof it, when I started to write
the lyrics, that I realized thatthere was a sort of concept, uh
(24:42):
a thread of of chess allegorykind of stuff I was doing, and
it kind of I started to leaninto that more.
But um, that was a good exampleof like if you kind of just
trust yourself and you do itenough, you can't really make a
bad song.
Now, some people might listento my music and say, well,
that's a bad song.
And I think that's that's validto say.
(25:03):
I think opinions are are great,but I think that the amount of
times that people have been indisagreement about my music is
like I I that's one of myfavorite things about my music
is that someone might say, Oh,that's his worst album, and then
someone else said, actually,that's my favorite album.
I've had so many people thathave told me and gotten into
arguments about it.
It's like uh, you know, itmakes me feel like, I don't
know, it makes me feel great,honestly.
(25:24):
It makes me feel like afilmmaker or something when
people can be so opinionatedabout things that I do.
Um and I don't, I think the bigthing is getting out of your
own way and leaving the doubt.
Um they also say that, youknow, and this is something I've
tried to do, well not maybetried, but you know, uh it's
getting away from the blankpage, even if that means trying
(25:46):
to make a bad song.
Um because you'll quicklyrealize that making a bad song
is almost harder than making thegood song.
If you hear it this might soundmean, but like if you hear the
music, like if you hear music inyour head the way that I I do,
(26:07):
it's not saying everything in myhead is a good song, but the
the concept of like making a badsong feels almost tougher.
Again, not saying they're allgood, but it it feels like so.
Often I'll tell people likewhen you're writing and they're
having trouble getting started,try to make a bad song.
Prove you can make a bad song.
Because if you can prove youcan make a bad song, you can
(26:29):
make a bad song better.
You can't make nothing better,you know.
So that's that's a big tip Ihave for people when it comes to
writing, is and it it goes thesame for anything like a
painting, uh script, make a badversion of that and then make
that better.
But half the people, theproblem they have is just the
blank page is like the biggestvertigo void in the world, and I
(26:52):
get that.
So I I've learned ways thatagain, that I maybe it's my ADD
or something, but I I can I canI can keep jumping around enough
that I I I completely avoidlike too much thought coming
into the process.
Very it's a lot of feeling,right?
colleyc (27:08):
Right.
Well, and I I love what yousaid before about just the
practice too.
Like you've done it so manytimes that like you understand
yourself, you understand yourtendencies, yeah.
And I'm sure you evenunderstand, like, okay, I want
to go away, deviate from what Iyou know, I'm gonna write it
write a record about hamburgers,you know.
Like I think that you embodyyourself so well and you
(27:34):
understand your process so wellthat for you writing is just
it's something that that you do,like yeah, yeah, you just do
it.
Rubber Band Gun (27:42):
And I've I've I've been in this like
songwriting world for for beforeI even I think knew that I was.
Yeah.
Because again, I've beenwriting songs uh honestly since
I was like maybe 12 in in somecapacity.
And in high school I was makinglittle home recorded albums
that were like crappy, like JohnMayer music, you know, like
(28:03):
like knockoff, you know, uh, youknow, early 2000s pop.
Um I also think that like beingable to like you know, I'm a
big fan of uh Paul ThomasAnderson's movies, and I I
recently heard uh that you know,when he's finishing one record
or record, one movie, and he'sdoing the press cycle for the
movie, he's already kind offiguring out what's his next
(28:26):
thing.
Uh and a lot of people in thatindustry try to do that to keep
themselves moving.
And I I have always I havenever really had a record that
was done where I didn't know thenext one that I wanted to do.
And that one still might belike there's one like last year
last year, I knew I wanted to dorecord deal with God, and uh
(28:48):
finish it rather, because I hadstarted just started it last
year, ended last year, and thenI knew I wanted to do another
one called Infinite Arrows thatwas going to be like 30 plus
tracks of um kind of a a sequelto this other album I did called
Street Memories, which is veryum a lot of like Peter Gabriel
stuff, some um King Crimson, uhjust like a big mix of of a
(29:12):
little bit more hyperizedthings, um, with with some very
strange, you know, if if recorddeal with God is classic rock, I
felt like Infinite Arrows wasgonna be much more futuristic um
with a lot of weirder thingsinto it.
And I'm gonna do so since thenthough, I've finished Record
Deal with God.
I've done three, I've done CellHell, which is another album I
(29:35):
did that I didn't know at thetime.
I did Haters and Lovers, whichis another, which is more of an
acoustic-y, songwriter-y kind ofrooting right type thing.
Yep.
That's one of my favorites ofthe year, I think.
And then I've done this chessalbum.
So Infinite Eros, I have a lot.
I have like 20 of them kind ofmapped out uh without without
being finished.
And then I have to do probablya bunch more next early next
(29:57):
year.
But um, it's so fun to just tolike blueprint out what you
might want to do conceptuallyand think about what what you
would want to hear next.
And that the ability for me tokind of bob and weave a little
bit like that really makes ummakes this not a slog.
And I feel like bands that Iknow that, especially bands that
(30:18):
are on a record label wherethere's a very long grueling
press cycle and promotionalthing, and they're they finish a
record one year and it comesout two years later.
That to me, and I mean, I'mthat's like one of the real
benefits of what I what I do andhow I do it, is I'm not on that
timetable.
And I'm not I'm not huge,somewhat because I don't say
(30:40):
because of that, but that thethe inability for me to get
truly behind that horse ispartly why I'm a little bit in
the obscure world.
But I do think that um whenpeople find me and they start
digging into it, it's adifferent type of fandom than
your usual.
It's a little bit more of a youknow, it's like finding a comic
book that you can just keepgoing back and finding, you
(31:02):
know, all the all the worlds.
colleyc (31:04):
It's a treasure trove, really.
I mean, I was just so happy Iwas telling you before we hopped
on here when I hit your bandand can't page, and I was like
amazing.
Haters and lovers, I love thatrecord too.
But record deal with God, Imean, it's such a banger of a
record.
Um I didn't listen yet to enpassant, your chess one, and uh
(31:28):
people won't see you becausethis is only audio, but um Kevin
has a jersey on called chess islife.
So probably inspired thisrecord on chess.
Um where do you see um rubberband gun going, Kevin?
Like what what is the rest ofthis year going into 2026?
(31:48):
What are you hoping for?
And and and what can we expectfrom from your production level?
Rubber Band Gun (31:55):
Um, so I have I have um I have some albums.
I have one album that I thoughtof the other day that I want to
do.
Um and it's called like I don'tknow what it's called yet, but
it's like a birthday album.
And the idea is that um, youknow, I I just have these silly
ideas.
I mean, music to me is justlike it could be it could be
anything, you know, music's justeverything and anything, and I
(32:15):
feel like I I find joy in theselittle stupid things.
I had this idea to make like abirthday album where each track
is an age going from one to ahundred and be like a hundred
songs.
And each each song is like theidea is that you would listen to
that song when you turn thatyear.
So like if you're turning like36, you would amongst other
(32:37):
things, you would listen to thatsong on that day.
And uh that song ideally frommy my point of view would be
maybe what it would feel like tobe that age, or what it you
know, I I've a lot of peoplesince I've told this this story,
like pitch me, oh yeah, whenyou're like 10, it should sound
like this, and when you're 70,so a lot of people have their
own idea about what it wouldsound like, and it'll never be
(32:59):
right, but um the idea is ispretty funny, and I think
there's a funny bit of likemarketing the idea that I mean
in any given day, there'smillions of birthdays of
different ages.
So like theoretically, youcould be like uh the stream
numbers would be would be likeastronomical if it actually took
off.
But um the day that one track,yeah, it would be through the
(33:21):
yeah, we're like, yeah, and likeage 22 is like a banner or
something.
Everyone who turns age 22 islike, you know, that's the
that's the day you listen, youknow.
That's it.
colleyc (33:29):
And then as you get into your 40s, 50s, it's more
like old head rock and likeyeah, exactly.
Rubber Band Gun (33:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Like like slow jazz.
Like when you're in your like40s.
I don't know, you know.
But that's an idea I wanted tomess with that was kind of fun.
Um, you know, I've I have a lotof people that you know that
another uh band uh artist that Iwork with is uh Star Moles, um
Emily, and she is one of thebest songwriters I've worked
(33:54):
with.
I've worked her for a long timenow.
Uh we have a record that wefinished uh that is uh coming
out probably early next yearthat is one of the best records
I think I've made.
Um very exciting about that.
Also, Sam and Louise Sullivan,who are who are a brother-sister
Philly duo, who I love, who youmight want to have on here.
They are they are amazingartists.
(34:14):
Um also Emily, I mean they'rethese people are just they're
they're and actually Sam andLouise Sullivan just got a great
shout out from Jeff Tweety fromWilco saying that he it's one
of his uh favorites and and thathe really, really loves it.
And I was really heartwarm tohear that because we put a lot
of time and love into thatrecord.
Um but yeah, I just you know,I'm I feel really blessed that I
(34:35):
just get to make music everyday.
And you know, even though, youknow, uh I'm I mean my streaming
numbers are decent, but like II feel like the ability for me,
especially compared to otherartists that I know that that um
you know that are are able todo a lot of things, my ability
just to be able to make musicevery day in some capacity is is
(34:57):
it's all that's the journey isabout it, you know, and and so
I'm not really looking at toomany any like goals like Grammy
wins or anything.
I'm not like trying to chaseany of that really.
I'm just to me it's uh life'sabout just you know, the doing.
Um and you know, it's nice toget a couple pats on the back
every now and then, but um, Ijust love being down where I am
(35:18):
right now in this studio justcooking stuff up.
And um, yeah, I'm hoping Icould do a bunch a bunch more
next year.
I mean, it's I just you know,every year I just want to keep
keep getting better.
And I really do think we'vebeen getting better and better
uh every year, especiallybecause my whole discography is
me learning how to operate themachinery and learning how to
(35:40):
make it a little bit better in away.
Um, and so that's that's that'skind of the whole the whole
discography is is really you canthat's why I also keep it
chronological because you cankind of map out it's starting
from the cassette demos now tosome of the ones that are like
slightly more high-fi than midmaybe than mid-fi.
I'm not like breaking into thelike you know top 40 quality of
(36:02):
things just because I'm workingwith what I have, but I think
it's uh it's certainly a ride tolike jump on, you know.
colleyc (36:08):
Amazing.
Well, I'm really excited tohear the the I'm gonna look
through and see some of the umthe artists that you've helped
create records with.
Um, I'm really interested tosee the transfer from your music
to how you apply it to theirs.
Um and definitely, I mean, Iwant to I'll I'll I'll reach out
to those artists because I wantto know their perspective of
(36:31):
how you run your studio andstuff.
I think that would be a coolperspective as well.
Rubber Band Gun (36:35):
Yeah, for sure.
They're great, they'rephenomenal musicians and they're
they're they're gonna really uhthey'll probably take off
before I do, just because theyhave such a they I they have
this have they have their headson right, and I'm I'm stuck in
the the this like the I'm alittle bit stuck in my ways of
just like I keep cranking themout, you know, and I'm not
really whereas again some peoplethey put it out and then they
(36:55):
have they they stand behind itand they hold the sign up for a
year.
This is what I got, you know.
I'm I kind of put it and I putit out and I'm lucky people
listen, but um, yeah, they'rethey're fantastic.
colleyc (37:06):
You have good numbers on Bandcamp too.
Like, I mean I do good, I dookay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, Kevin, this has beenfascinating.
I thank you so much for kind ofopening your studio and your
process and your music up to us.
Um, I love your stories.
Um, I love your process and howyou think about records.
(37:27):
And um, I'm gonna definitelylisten to hamburger.
I mean 9020, never frozenburger girl.
Yeah, yeah, it's like motion.
Rubber Band Gun (37:35):
I'm loving it.
colleyc (37:37):
It's needed.
Rubber Band Gun (37:38):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, some of them areambiguous, some of a lot of them
are ambiguous, but some of themare just like good fun, you
know.
Love it.
colleyc (37:46):
I love it.
Well, you take care ofyourself, and um, I'd love to
have you back on and continuethis conversation.
It's been a real pleasure.
Rubber Band Gun (37:52):
Great.
Thanks so much, Chris.
I appreciate it.
Cheers, man.
Welcome everyone back to another episode of
ifitbeyourwill Podcast.
We are probably halfwaythrough, maybe even more than
halfway through season six.
We'll see how uh the holidayseason goes, and uh but
regardless, today, um great,great uh well, a one a one-man
(01:08):
band, I guess we'd say, uh,rubber band gun uh coming out of
um Philadelphia.
Is that true, Kevin?
Kevin Kevin, Kevin, Basco.
Rubber Band Gun (01:18):
Yes, yes, yeah.
One one man, I guess, is a gooda good way to say it.
Uh out of Philadelphia.
colleyc (01:24):
Influenced probably by many, but I mean, you're a
one-man churning music machine.
Um and I'll tell you why I saythat in a minute, but I'm gonna
leave the suspense there for aminute.
But Kevin has just a a newrecord that came out to um
called the record deal with God.
This is from uh this year,September 18th, when it came
(01:46):
out.
And lo and behold, go to hisbandcamp page because um there's
a new thing on there almostevery week, which is lucky for
all of us out there.
Um, Kevin is a prolificsongwriter, and he like dabbles
this line of indie rock, psych.
I mean, it's verydo-it-yourselfy, um, lo-fi,
bedroom-y, you name it.
(02:08):
Uh and he's been doing this fora hell of a long time and's
produced a ton of stuff.
He also um runs the historicNew Jersey Records.
Kevin, is that correct insaying that?
It is correct.
Yep.
That is your studio and whereyou help other musicians uh
build their um sound.
Rubber Band Gun (02:29):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's like a recording
studio, also.
Um and some of the artists onhere that um that are very close
uh in proximity and just intomy heart are ones that I put out
on the historic Jersey label.
colleyc (02:43):
Nice.
Rubber Band Gun (02:44):
And it's it's hard to say label nowadays, but
it's it's like a music group inthe same way that modeled after
some of the great label studiotypes like your Stacks or your
Motown kind of thing, wherethere's there's a little bit of
um involvement in both sides ofit.
Um it's been it's been onlyabout a few years of that, and
it's not too too many have comeout on that, but it's it's a
(03:05):
it's certainly a growing kind ofthing we're doing here.
Awesome.
colleyc (03:08):
And is that all analog too, Kevin?
I read that that most of whatyou do, you love to just go
analog.
Rubber Band Gun (03:15):
Well, yeah, like analog's such a funny word
now.
It's like I like I for a longtime with this project, um, it
was mostly um tape.
Uh uh actually, this machinehere and and a few of the ones
back there.
Those were the kind of maincreative uh hubs that the songs
would be built on, uh figuredout on, and kind of mixed on,
(03:36):
even.
Uh in the last like four orfive years, I've started to
slowly uh try to get a littlemore of a what they call like a
hybrid setup where um it mightstart out on tape and then might
end up a little bit more workon the computer.
Right.
Um and then some of the recordsI've done recently have been uh
a little bit more computerworld, but uh it's always it's
(03:59):
weird, it's always like analogin the sense of there's quite a
lot of things outside of thecomputer that are affecting the
sound before.
Uh you can't really see there'squite a lot of old things here
that really make things soundthe way that I would like them
to sound.
My computer's very old, so itkind of keeps me from digging
(04:19):
too deep into the computerworld.
Um and I kind of like it thatway.
I like the I think what I likedabout tape and what I love
about tape still is thelimitations of the frame, so to
speak, where you could fillthings uh with with there being
a sort of sort of a wall thatyou hit uh in terms of your
ability, which I think is that'swhere a lot of um great art in
(04:41):
a lot of ways, you know, thelimitations are what define it.
I think that's and that'ssomething I've uh learned after
a long time.
So analog is tough word,though.
It's like it it it it is it isanalog.
It's certainly we we we dothings a lot of different ways
here though, but it's it'smostly the older methods.
colleyc (04:57):
Nice, nice.
And um I guess my firstquestion, Kevin, is I want to go
back a little bit just becauseI know that I mean your your
your um catalog is massive.
And I know you've been doingthis for you know a nice chunk
of time, but the amount that youput out is in one year is about
(05:20):
what an artist would put out intheir whole career.
Um when did this bug for musicstart for you?
When did when did music reallystart to like kick into your
heart and be like, yeah, this ismy direction in life?
Rubber Band Gun (05:34):
Yeah, so I kind of I have this memory that I've
been holding on to, especiallythe last like five years in
pandemic when we all started tokind of look reflect and look
inward.
And this memory of like beingon the trampoline as a little
kid, a little trampoline outback.
And I had this memory of uhsitting on laying on my
trampoline and like writing outlyrics and rewriting lyrics to
(05:59):
songs that had already beenwritten, almost like weird
alifying them, but not funny.
Just like how would I want tosing to like pop punk songs or
like like weird other hits ofthe time.
Um, and I remember going backsomewhat recently.
Actually, I gotta my dog iscrying, so I gotta like tuck him
into his bed.
Sorry, not good for yourpodcasters, but yeah, there you
(06:21):
go.
colleyc (06:22):
Make them look happy, happy dog, happy hot dog.
Rubber Band Gun (06:25):
Yeah, yeah, I gotta have him, uh gotta have
him chilling.
Um, but uh yeah, that's that'sa strong memory of you know
early uh like writing beforeanything else, you know, before
even meeting other people, youknow, no sense of collaboration.
But I think that's also whylike I've had this strong
connection to always, you know,the the do-it-yourself kind of
(06:47):
mindset.
And I think that, you know, Ikind of started out like I
didn't I didn't really have likea childhood music collaborator
friend or you know, I was in alot of bands, I've had great
music relationships with peopleover the years, but it's always
kind of been a very solidsolitary effort.
And I really like it that way,to be honest, and I find ways to
(07:07):
collaborate with people, butum, you know, I really, you
know, the the solo work of theBeatles, especially almost hits
me hard much harder than their.
I'm a big Beatles fan, but likethe early McCartney stuff where
he's playing it all.
Um, work of Richard Swift onhis own, um, obviously Todd
Rundgren.
These are people that when I umagain, I played in a lot of
(07:30):
bands throughout my years, butit was when I was at music
college playing in Boston with alot of different bands of a lot
of different genres, that I gota little bit frustrated at
times trying to um, you know,constantly, what do they say?
Like it's kind of like uh theplatypus is like a uh animal
(07:51):
built by committee, you know,the idea that how many people
get involved in the process.
I think that's important formusic.
And I've learned thatespecially the last years
producing, that thecollaborative process is is uh
can be obviously a lot richerthan a solo effort.
But I found that having theability to do it on my own,
there's nothing stopping it.
(08:12):
Uh the only one to get in yourown way or in the way is
yourself in that situation.
And that's kind of how I'vebeen able to make so much music.
And yeah, this project startedin 2013, and I think it was the
first effort to think hearing alot of bands.
Well, to be honest, uh uh, youknow, groups that were proving
it in the at the time, provingthe proof the proof of concept
(08:35):
rather, uh, were bands like uhTame Impala and MacDamarco, you
know, these were these were thiswas you know early 2010s, and
and realizing that you could doa lot of the things on your own,
and that there's its own sortof world that has that that that
contains.
So it's totally it's bands likethat that really kind of proved
(08:56):
that what I've always wanted todo, which is kind of just be
able to express things in my ownway, versus again having to be
in a band where you're reallycompromising.
There's not one obviously rightor wrong answer, but uh, I
think that that chunk of timewas really important for me uh
to kind of figure out that, oh,you know, it's okay to just do
your own thing, and andespecially if you uh and you
(09:19):
did.
colleyc (09:19):
I mean and you did.
Um I'm still get into that.
So I have this story that Iread.
So you finished school, youwent to a job fair, you left
joining Foxygen as a touringguitarist.
Like walk us through that storybecause I find it really
fascinating.
Rubber Band Gun (09:39):
Yeah, well, I I had become friends with um uh
Jonathan Redo of Oxygen uh atthe time just through meeting
him at a at a at a show.
I was actually in Boston goingto school, and I took the bus
down to see one of uh thedrummer of Oxygen, Diane
Coffey's name, Sean Fleming,great drummer, great musician,
(09:59):
great singer, see their debutshow at a club called Pianos in
New York.
And I saw uh Redo at the barand I spoke to him very briefly,
and we had a we had a prettyquick connection about um
influences, about just music,music in general.
And we became friends over thenext year, and then yeah, and
then I'm it was my last year ofcollege, and I uh when I was,
(10:23):
yeah, I was on the way to thethe you know office of Berkeley
that kind of helps you find ajob.
I was planning on being ateacher in New York, uh and
moving possibly with mygirlfriend at the time in New
York and do more of that kind ofstuff.
And um, yeah, I'm in theelevator and I get the text do
you want to play uh in the inthe in the star power band?
And I was uh I was very excitedabout that.
(10:44):
And I remember being next tothis girl, random girl in the
elevator, and I like kind oflike screamed, and I think I
scared her.
I was just very excited.
Yeah, that really that reallyset off a big long kind of uh
you know, because again, I I hadbeen around some of the best
musicians in the country and theand on the planet at Berkeley.
I mean, you you could say someof those musicians uh as far as
talent uh were some of the best.
(11:06):
And so to to find a way to gofrom that school to uh yes, like
joining one of my idol bands atthe time, but also just like
experiencing what the industrywas like at that time, the
touring industry, uh, as well asI mean, we we visited a lot of
other groups and studios andthings like that, just kind of
(11:27):
getting a door into seeing whatthe industry was like was um was
really uh was really important.
And that, you know, I hadalready had my my band, uh
rather my early demos for rubberband gun were kind of what got
me into Foxygen in terms of justthe the the proof of my
musicality, I guess.
colleyc (11:46):
Right.
Rubber Band Gun (11:46):
Um but yeah, that was that was a really uh
crazy time.
It's crazy, I think it's beenover a decade now.
That was like that was probablylike 2013.
colleyc (11:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And then you started thisjourney of your own in in
crafting and and building youryour catalog that I mean is just
I mean in continuous evolution.
Um there are two occasions thatI want to talk about because it
seemed like these two occasionsgot your the engine going
(12:18):
inside you to just write.
And one of them was called theRBG 25, which was yeah, yeah.
Can you 20 2019 this came outin or this idea, right?
During the pandemic, yeah,yeah.
Walk us through this, what whatthis challenge was for
yourself.
Rubber Band Gun (12:34):
Yeah, so that it kind of goes back again to uh
Jonathan Redo again, you know,at the time we were touring.
And um, you know, by that timeI had making quite made made
quite a few records.
I think up until then I maybemade like eight or nine records
in probably uh what it wasprobably in the group like a
seven-year span, which honestlyin hindsight, yeah.
(12:55):
I was at the time I wasprobably averaging like a record
a year, which is pretty typicalfor a lot of groups.
Um, and I uh was working at myparents' house.
And um we in 2019, it was likeearly of the year, and we were
kind of he was joking about howwe uh I should, you know, I
(13:15):
should just make like a crazyamount of albums that year.
Uh and it kind of like throughsome playful, you know, uh
banter kind of became a sort oflike uh challenge of sorts to
think that if I could do thatmany.
Um and then we had like a rulethat you know it had to have
like three or more songs becauseI'm I'm in this weird camp
(13:36):
where like I don't I kind ofdon't believe in like the
concept of like not the concept,but like of like an EP versus
an album.
Like I kind of think thatthings can be it feels weird to
like the way that we think.
I know it's obviously like longplay, extended play, but like I
think that there's somethingabout um you know length of an
album that uh it can feelcomplete in its right way with
(14:00):
maybe four songs.
I think I've heard things thatlike things like uh like Richard
Swift has done that's like acouple songs and it can it could
have its own life.
So conceptually we thought youknow that would be a fun uh
thing to do.
And up until then, I made a lotof records that were like it's
funny.
Uh you know, a lot of peopletry to retain a sort of
(14:22):
mystique, right?
Like I saw this video recentlyabout like I think it was like
geese were talking about how umyou know the beauty in in like
not telling people what thingsare about, uh songs are about.
Um and that led me down anotherrabbit hole that a great quote
by Paul Simon that was like umthe listener completes the song,
(14:44):
which which kind of means thatthe listener, if you don't tell
them what it's about, thelistener will put their own uh
interpretation on it, right?
Um my records up until thenwere about like hamburgers and
baseball and cars and and murdermystery parties.
And I had records, I I made auh a hospital-themed musical,
(15:05):
right?
So it's like these are a littlebit more ham-fisted things.
They were a little bit moreconceptually uh like uh a little
bit more thick themed, if youcould say that.
Um, there wasn't quite as muchlinchy and gray gray area where
you could interpret.
I mean, you could interpretmaybe some of the lyrics and
meanings, but at the end of theday, I mean, if the album, if
(15:26):
the album is called hamburger,you can kind of put put together
what, you know, like up there,that's the cover.
Um, you could put the two andtwo together.
So, you know, I I I do a fairamount of both, but I think that
that year, you know, I startedto there there were a lot of
conceptual ones.
Like there was like on thatyear, there was like music for
back rows, which was like musicthat was like supposed to be,
(15:47):
you know, uh whatever part ofthe body you were on, there was
the song that you would listento, right?
Like it was like there's theknees song or the the back song,
right?
Um, and then there was like thelike uh in the halls of the
presidents, which was likeambient music for each
president, you know.
Um what what maybe what thatpresident would sound like as a
(16:08):
you know noise, noisy song.
Um, but then there's ones thatwere a little bit more uh
classic rock, uh that were alittle more typical.
So I did a we did a lot of thatwas a really important year,
obviously, and just like whatrubber bang would become in
terms of just that was almostthat was the beginning of the
like prolific nature of rubberbang is I feel like I'd made a
(16:31):
lot of records, and I think evena record a year could be a lot
of music for some bands.
A lot of them, it's like everyother year, maybe every three
years.
Totally, totally sometimesthere was like one or two a
year.
Yeah, now the last sincepandemic, well, I think the
first year of pandemic, it waslike I think I put out maybe one
record in a bunch of singles.
The last three years, I've beenkind of keeping to around three
(16:53):
or four albums a year, and Ithink I found a bit of a sweet
spot because I mean, in additionto that, I'm producing like
seven or eight albums of otherpeople's during the year.
So it's there's a lot, it'salmost it's almost the same
amount of music being made withthe 25.
It's just kind of spread outover different groups.
Um, but um, yeah, I think thatthat year was 2019, was was a
(17:18):
big year for for me, for justbeing able to uh learn how to
produce.
Um, because I went to musicschool for songwriting and
arranging.
I didn't learn a single thingabout how to run a recording
studio, how to record, how toproduce, how to put a
microphone.
Like all of that was based offof me watching people I liked,
(17:38):
looking at the inside ofrecords, uh, looking where you
know Muscle Shoals would puttheir mics, like people at
records that I loved, I wouldlook at.
Um, and 2019 was a lot of metrying things out and figuring
out how to record myself alittle bit better uh and
sometimes worse for the purposeof it.
Right.
Um But yeah, that was certainlythe start of it, and that was
(18:01):
an important, important year forthe for the for the group for
sure.
colleyc (18:04):
I love it.
And Kevin, what's your how doyou go about this?
Like how do you like how do youget like is your do you have
like um because your backgroundin studying songwriting and do
you have a formula that you tendto follow?
And I hate saying formula, butdo you have a way that you pen
songs that allows you to churnthem um so quickly?
(18:28):
I mean, I read that yourwriting process is you like
doing quick, quick, quick songs,quick recordings.
What is it about your processthat allows you to be so
prolific?
Rubber Band Gun (18:40):
Well, I think that music, um, you know, I'm
I'm in that kind of camp ofmusic being, you know, tradition
in the way that um you don't Ithink a lot of the problems
people have that stop them fromwriting or stop them from being
creative is the idea of um beingtoo close to something that
exists or fear of not beingoriginal, all these things.
(19:03):
And you know, it's but it'sreally your failure to sound
like your heroes that makes yousound like yourself.
And that could date back allthe way to the classical period.
I mean, it's like that'ssomething that's always been
true.
There's only so many notes.
So I I found that um likeobviously people I I hear people
all the time that that do soundwholly original.
I bet those people too couldpoint me at what they are going
(19:26):
for.
I mean, you could say the samething for comics, you know, you
watch a rest of development andyou can see, and I've heard bit
videos of Mitch Hurowitz whocreated and right, wrote the
show, saying, Oh, that's just anAlbert Brooks joke, or that's
just a John Cleese joke.
And you see Tarantino, samething, saying, Oh, that's just a
Robert Altman thing, or that'sjust a, you know, that's just a
Scorsese thing, right?
So I hate to say the wordstealing because I don't, I
(19:48):
don't think I think that, youknow, bad songwriters steal,
good songwriters borrow, youknow, or know how to speak the
language.
I think that what I learned atmusic school.
School is I kind of learned abit of I well the big thing that
I think for music school was mymy ear was really beginning to
(20:09):
develop in a way that I couldthen if I hear a song I like I
could pretty quickly now figureout what I like about it and
then I could figure out how Ican apply that to what I might
want to do.
colleyc (20:22):
Right.
So uh Kevin, what what would bean example of that of something
that you like in a song?
Like is it is it a line, is ita lyric, a phrase, uh the chord
structure?
Like what's everything?
Like it could be.
Rubber Band Gun (20:36):
Everything, but it's about it's about finding
like what what you could dobest.
Like I think the big thing thatI think is impossible to be in
trouble for stealing is tempo.
I think tempo is where thingsstart.
It's also from a productionstandpoint where I look most
about when I'm looking atsomeone's song.
Um and that's something that isa huge blind spot for a
(20:58):
songwriter.
And and right rightfully so.
I mean, it's hard to thinkabout everything as the writer.
It's my job as the producer tohear maybe where the song, how
it can be restructured, how itcan be changed to maybe fit um
the optimal feeling and wherewhere you would be moving your
head if you were at a show,where how if you heard that song
live, how would you be movingaround in the audience?
(21:19):
Or if you're listening on yourcouch, how would it impact you?
So I think tempo is one of thebig things that I've learned.
When I hear like the righttempo with the right feelings
behind it, I can kind of do abad impression of that in my own
way.
And um, you know, it's it'salmost like a bad form of
(21:40):
mimicry or something when youwhen you do it right.
I mean, there it's really oneof those things though, it's
such a slippery, slippery slope.
I think you know, bad writersare are have a hard time with
this because uh they don't Idon't want to be mean, but I
think there's sometimes it'slike you you can hear when
something well, like an example,obviously, like like you know,
not saying because I thinkPharrell is a great producer,
(22:02):
but you like that whole thingwith like the blurred lines
plagiarism thing, you know, theyreally went so close to the sun
there that it's like uh it'sit's it's kind of um you know
they they could have found a wayto to to take what they liked
about that Marvin Gaye song andmade it a little bit more
(22:23):
original and they wouldn't havehad that whole problem.
And I think that it's yourability to like take what's been
like Bob Dylan says it a lotabout tradition, like music is
tradition and it doesn't reallybelong to anyone, but at the
same time um there is obviouslya a limit to that, and I think
when you're just like if you'reincapable of putting your own
(22:43):
spin on it, it shows and that'sa problem.
Um it's also just uninspiringto listen to something like
that.
Yeah.
colleyc (22:50):
Um when do you know, Kevin, like when you're on to
when you've tapped intosomething that you would like to
see on tape?
Like I'm sure that you havetons of throwaway songs as well.
Like when is it do you feellike this this idea is worth
kind of flushing out a littlebit more?
(23:10):
Yeah.
What is it about that when youknow, like, okay, uh this is
gonna be a good one?
Rubber Band Gun (23:16):
Well, I I kind of like I I I make the joke, I
kind of subscribe to like theMari Kondo, I think her name is
Mari Kondo, that um the sparkjoy method.
I don't know if you've seenthose videos of like she has
this book where like to likeclean your house, right?
You like pick up an object youhave, and if it sparks joy, you
keep it.
If it if you hold that object,it does not spark joy.
It's a word she uses spark joy.
(23:37):
If it doesn't, it it you canyou can throw it out.
Um and I think aiming, likewhen you figure out what that
feeling is, the same way youmight like know when something
has enough salt in it, like youwhen you have that kind of like
go alarm go off that there'ssomething here, um you kind of
just know, and and what I'vewhat I've learned enough about
(23:59):
like I've I did this record thatthe record that just came out
after Record Deal with Godcalled En Passant, which is
about it's a chess album.
That album I made um a quickstory about that.
I had there's a a guy who cameup, a documentary filmmaker guy,
came up from Texas.
His idea was he had thisdocumentary that he's still
editing, it's called Spitfire.
(24:20):
And the idea of it is that hewanted to just put the cameras
on, and uh without anythingpre-written, without anything, I
I had no pre-written material,we would just hit record on the
machine, and I would, I wouldkind of just go.
And that's that whole record.
It was made in three days.
Um, and halfway through makingof it, when I started to write
the lyrics, that I realized thatthere was a sort of concept, uh
(24:42):
a thread of of chess allegorykind of stuff I was doing, and
it kind of I started to leaninto that more.
But um, that was a good exampleof like if you kind of just
trust yourself and you do itenough, you can't really make a
bad song.
Now, some people might listento my music and say, well,
that's a bad song.
And I think that's that's validto say.
(25:03):
I think opinions are are great,but I think that the amount of
times that people have been indisagreement about my music is
like I I that's one of myfavorite things about my music
is that someone might say, Oh,that's his worst album, and then
someone else said, actually,that's my favorite album.
I've had so many people thathave told me and gotten into
arguments about it.
It's like uh, you know, itmakes me feel like, I don't
know, it makes me feel great,honestly.
(25:24):
It makes me feel like afilmmaker or something when
people can be so opinionatedabout things that I do.
Um and I don't, I think the bigthing is getting out of your
own way and leaving the doubt.
Um they also say that, youknow, and this is something I've
tried to do, well not maybetried, but you know, uh it's
getting away from the blankpage, even if that means trying
(25:46):
to make a bad song.
Um because you'll quicklyrealize that making a bad song
is almost harder than making thegood song.
If you hear it this might soundmean, but like if you hear the
music, like if you hear music inyour head the way that I I do,
(26:07):
it's not saying everything in myhead is a good song, but the
the concept of like making a badsong feels almost tougher.
Again, not saying they're allgood, but it it feels like so.
Often I'll tell people likewhen you're writing and they're
having trouble getting started,try to make a bad song.
Prove you can make a bad song.
Because if you can prove youcan make a bad song, you can
(26:29):
make a bad song better.
You can't make nothing better,you know.
So that's that's a big tip Ihave for people when it comes to
writing, is and it it goes thesame for anything like a
painting, uh script, make a badversion of that and then make
that better.
But half the people, theproblem they have is just the
blank page is like the biggestvertigo void in the world, and I
(26:52):
get that.
So I I've learned ways thatagain, that I maybe it's my ADD
or something, but I I can I canI can keep jumping around enough
that I I I completely avoidlike too much thought coming
into the process.
Very it's a lot of feeling,right?
colleyc (27:08):
Right.
Well, and I I love what yousaid before about just the
practice too.
Like you've done it so manytimes that like you understand
yourself, you understand yourtendencies, yeah.
And I'm sure you evenunderstand, like, okay, I want
to go away, deviate from what Iyou know, I'm gonna write it
write a record about hamburgers,you know.
Like I think that you embodyyourself so well and you
(27:34):
understand your process so wellthat for you writing is just
it's something that that you do,like yeah, yeah, you just do
it.
Rubber Band Gun (27:42):
And I've I've I've been in this like
songwriting world for for beforeI even I think knew that I was.
Yeah.
Because again, I've beenwriting songs uh honestly since
I was like maybe 12 in in somecapacity.
And in high school I was makinglittle home recorded albums
that were like crappy, like JohnMayer music, you know, like
(28:03):
like knockoff, you know, uh, youknow, early 2000s pop.
Um I also think that like beingable to like you know, I'm a
big fan of uh Paul ThomasAnderson's movies, and I I
recently heard uh that you know,when he's finishing one record
or record, one movie, and he'sdoing the press cycle for the
movie, he's already kind offiguring out what's his next
(28:26):
thing.
Uh and a lot of people in thatindustry try to do that to keep
themselves moving.
And I I have always I havenever really had a record that
was done where I didn't know thenext one that I wanted to do.
And that one still might belike there's one like last year
last year, I knew I wanted to dorecord deal with God, and uh
(28:48):
finish it rather, because I hadstarted just started it last
year, ended last year, and thenI knew I wanted to do another
one called Infinite Arrows thatwas going to be like 30 plus
tracks of um kind of a a sequelto this other album I did called
Street Memories, which is veryum a lot of like Peter Gabriel
stuff, some um King Crimson, uhjust like a big mix of of a
(29:12):
little bit more hyperizedthings, um, with with some very
strange, you know, if if recorddeal with God is classic rock, I
felt like Infinite Arrows wasgonna be much more futuristic um
with a lot of weirder thingsinto it.
And I'm gonna do so since thenthough, I've finished Record
Deal with God.
I've done three, I've done CellHell, which is another album I
(29:35):
did that I didn't know at thetime.
I did Haters and Lovers, whichis another, which is more of an
acoustic-y, songwriter-y kind ofrooting right type thing.
Yep.
That's one of my favorites ofthe year, I think.
And then I've done this chessalbum.
So Infinite Eros, I have a lot.
I have like 20 of them kind ofmapped out uh without without
being finished.
And then I have to do probablya bunch more next early next
(29:57):
year.
But um, it's so fun to just tolike blueprint out what you
might want to do conceptuallyand think about what what you
would want to hear next.
And that the ability for me tokind of bob and weave a little
bit like that really makes ummakes this not a slog.
And I feel like bands that Iknow that, especially bands that
(30:18):
are on a record label wherethere's a very long grueling
press cycle and promotionalthing, and they're they finish a
record one year and it comesout two years later.
That to me, and I mean, I'mthat's like one of the real
benefits of what I what I do andhow I do it, is I'm not on that
timetable.
And I'm not I'm not huge,somewhat because I don't say
(30:40):
because of that, but that thethe inability for me to get
truly behind that horse ispartly why I'm a little bit in
the obscure world.
But I do think that um whenpeople find me and they start
digging into it, it's adifferent type of fandom than
your usual.
It's a little bit more of a youknow, it's like finding a comic
book that you can just keepgoing back and finding, you
(31:02):
know, all the all the worlds.
colleyc (31:04):
It's a treasure trove, really.
I mean, I was just so happy Iwas telling you before we hopped
on here when I hit your bandand can't page, and I was like
amazing.
Haters and lovers, I love thatrecord too.
But record deal with God, Imean, it's such a banger of a
record.
Um I didn't listen yet to enpassant, your chess one, and uh
(31:28):
people won't see you becausethis is only audio, but um Kevin
has a jersey on called chess islife.
So probably inspired thisrecord on chess.
Um where do you see um rubberband gun going, Kevin?
Like what what is the rest ofthis year going into 2026?
(31:48):
What are you hoping for?
And and and what can we expectfrom from your production level?
Rubber Band Gun (31:55):
Um, so I have I have um I have some albums.
I have one album that I thoughtof the other day that I want to
do.
Um and it's called like I don'tknow what it's called yet, but
it's like a birthday album.
And the idea is that um, youknow, I I just have these silly
ideas.
I mean, music to me is justlike it could be it could be
anything, you know, music's justeverything and anything, and I
(32:15):
feel like I I find joy in theselittle stupid things.
I had this idea to make like abirthday album where each track
is an age going from one to ahundred and be like a hundred
songs.
And each each song is like theidea is that you would listen to
that song when you turn thatyear.
So like if you're turning like36, you would amongst other
(32:37):
things, you would listen to thatsong on that day.
And uh that song ideally frommy my point of view would be
maybe what it would feel like tobe that age, or what it you
know, I I've a lot of peoplesince I've told this this story,
like pitch me, oh yeah, whenyou're like 10, it should sound
like this, and when you're 70,so a lot of people have their
own idea about what it wouldsound like, and it'll never be
(32:59):
right, but um the idea is ispretty funny, and I think
there's a funny bit of likemarketing the idea that I mean
in any given day, there'smillions of birthdays of
different ages.
So like theoretically, youcould be like uh the stream
numbers would be would be likeastronomical if it actually took
off.
But um the day that one track,yeah, it would be through the
(33:21):
yeah, we're like, yeah, and likeage 22 is like a banner or
something.
Everyone who turns age 22 islike, you know, that's the
that's the day you listen, youknow.
That's it.
colleyc (33:29):
And then as you get into your 40s, 50s, it's more
like old head rock and likeyeah, exactly.
Rubber Band Gun (33:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Like like slow jazz.
Like when you're in your like40s.
I don't know, you know.
But that's an idea I wanted tomess with that was kind of fun.
Um, you know, I've I have a lotof people that you know that
another uh band uh artist that Iwork with is uh Star Moles, um
Emily, and she is one of thebest songwriters I've worked
(33:54):
with.
I've worked her for a long timenow.
Uh we have a record that wefinished uh that is uh coming
out probably early next yearthat is one of the best records
I think I've made.
Um very exciting about that.
Also, Sam and Louise Sullivan,who are who are a brother-sister
Philly duo, who I love, who youmight want to have on here.
They are they are amazingartists.
(34:14):
Um also Emily, I mean they'rethese people are just they're
they're and actually Sam andLouise Sullivan just got a great
shout out from Jeff Tweety fromWilco saying that he it's one
of his uh favorites and and thathe really, really loves it.
And I was really heartwarm tohear that because we put a lot
of time and love into thatrecord.
Um but yeah, I just you know,I'm I feel really blessed that I
(34:35):
just get to make music everyday.
And you know, even though, youknow, uh I'm I mean my streaming
numbers are decent, but like II feel like the ability for me,
especially compared to otherartists that I know that that um
you know that are are able todo a lot of things, my ability
just to be able to make musicevery day in some capacity is is
(34:57):
it's all that's the journey isabout it, you know, and and so
I'm not really looking at toomany any like goals like Grammy
wins or anything.
I'm not like trying to chaseany of that really.
I'm just to me it's uh life'sabout just you know, the doing.
Um and you know, it's nice toget a couple pats on the back
every now and then, but um, Ijust love being down where I am
(35:18):
right now in this studio justcooking stuff up.
And um, yeah, I'm hoping Icould do a bunch a bunch more
next year.
I mean, it's I just you know,every year I just want to keep
keep getting better.
And I really do think we'vebeen getting better and better
uh every year, especiallybecause my whole discography is
me learning how to operate themachinery and learning how to
(35:40):
make it a little bit better in away.
Um, and so that's that's that'skind of the whole the whole
discography is is really you canthat's why I also keep it
chronological because you cankind of map out it's starting
from the cassette demos now tosome of the ones that are like
slightly more high-fi than midmaybe than mid-fi.
I'm not like breaking into thelike you know top 40 quality of
(36:02):
things just because I'm workingwith what I have, but I think
it's uh it's certainly a ride tolike jump on, you know.
colleyc (36:08):
Amazing.
Well, I'm really excited tohear the the I'm gonna look
through and see some of the umthe artists that you've helped
create records with.
Um, I'm really interested tosee the transfer from your music
to how you apply it to theirs.
Um and definitely, I mean, Iwant to I'll I'll I'll reach out
to those artists because I wantto know their perspective of
(36:31):
how you run your studio andstuff.
I think that would be a coolperspective as well.
Rubber Band Gun (36:35):
Yeah, for sure.
They're great, they'rephenomenal musicians and they're
they're they're gonna really uhthey'll probably take off
before I do, just because theyhave such a they I they have
this have they have their headson right, and I'm I'm stuck in
the the this like the I'm alittle bit stuck in my ways of
just like I keep cranking themout, you know, and I'm not
really whereas again some peoplethey put it out and then they
(36:55):
have they they stand behind itand they hold the sign up for a
year.
This is what I got, you know.
I'm I kind of put it and I putit out and I'm lucky people
listen, but um, yeah, they'rethey're fantastic.
colleyc (37:06):
You have good numbers on Bandcamp too.
Like, I mean I do good, I dookay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, Kevin, this has beenfascinating.
I thank you so much for kind ofopening your studio and your
process and your music up to us.
Um, I love your stories.
Um, I love your process and howyou think about records.
(37:27):
And um, I'm gonna definitelylisten to hamburger.
I mean 9020, never frozenburger girl.
Yeah, yeah, it's like motion.
Rubber Band Gun (37:35):
I'm loving it.
colleyc (37:37):
It's needed.
Rubber Band Gun (37:38):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, some of them areambiguous, some of a lot of them
are ambiguous, but some of themare just like good fun, you
know.
Love it.
colleyc (37:46):
I love it.
Well, you take care ofyourself, and um, I'd love to
have you back on and continuethis conversation.
It's been a real pleasure.
Rubber Band Gun (37:52):
Great.
Thanks so much, Chris.
I appreciate it.
Cheers, man.
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