June 17, 2025 • 39 mins
The Fertility Awareness Method (FAM) offers a science-backed approach to natural birth control that helps you understand your fertile window through tracking biological markers like basal body temperature and cervical mucus. Nat, a fertility awareness educator, explains how this method empowers women by providing deeper insights into their cycles and hormonal patterns.
• FAM is not the rhythm method or natural cycles, but rather tracks ovulation signs specifically
• Reliable ovulation signs include basal body temperature, cervical mucus, and sometimes LH tests
• Manual charting is preferred over predictive algorithmic apps
• Daily tracking takes only minutes but provides powerful insights about fertility status
• FAM works effectively even with irregular cycles or PCOS
• Ovulation can be confirmed through temperature shifts, making it possible to identify safe periods
• Cervical mucus observations don't require large amounts - subtle signs are equally important
Connect with Nat on Instagram @FertilityAwarenessProject or visit fertilityawarenessproject.ca. Grab her freebies:
FAM Fundametals Freebie - https://fertilityawarenessproject.ca/fam-fundamentals
Mindful Mucus Method Waitlist - https://fertilityawarenessproject.ca/mindful-waitlist
Mucus Made Easy Freebie - https://fertilityawarenessproject.ca/mucus-made-easy
TempDrop Discount Code: 10% off
🎉 Free Class: 100-Day Blueprint to Fix Your Hormones Naturally
Tired of the acne, bloating, low energy, and period chaos? Join me on Tuesday, June 24 at 5pm PT to learn how to support your gut + hormones — no crash diets, no guessing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're someone who wants to avoid taking hormonal
birth control and you want toplan for or avoid conception
more naturally, you need tolisten to this episode on the
Fertility Awareness Method, orFAM.
I'm interviewing Nat and she'sbreaking down what FAM is and
why it can be an insightfulresource, regardless of where
you're at with your hormonebalance, period, regularity or
(00:21):
desire to get pregnant.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to I'm Hormonal, yoursource of information about
women's hormone health and howto support your body naturally.
I'm your host, bridget Walton,and I'm a certified functional
hormone specialist and menstrualcycle coach.
I am on a mission to hold thesehormone conversations with as
(00:41):
many menstruators as possible,because you deserve easier
access to accurate informationabout what's up with your unruly
menstrual cycle and with yourfertility mysteries.
Don't you think it's time thatwe figure this out once and for
all?
Hello, hello, welcome to thisepisode, number 110 of I'm
(01:02):
Hormonal.
I'm your host, bridget Walton.
I'm so excited, as always, thatyou are here with me today and
we're going to jump into thisconversation that I had with Nat
here shortly.
You're going to love it.
But first of all, I just wantto say thank you so much for
sharing the episodes that havemeant the most to you, with your
friends, for helping me toexpand the I'm Hormonal
(01:23):
community.
Thank you for those of you whoare listening for the first time
.
Again, my name is Bridget andI'm a women's hormone coach.
I started this podcast over ayear and a half ago because I
think that we all deserve moreinformation, better information,
easier access to thatinformation about how our bodies
work.
(01:43):
So that's what we are up tohere.
As you've heard, we're going tobe talking about the fertility
awareness method today, and I'lljust introduce Nat real quick.
Nat is a fertility awarenesseducator.
She's also the cervical mucusqueen.
Her business, fertilityAwareness Project, is one that
(02:08):
works with women who are lookingto use yes, you guessed it the
fertility awareness method as areal, reliable birth control.
Right, if you want to do thingsmore naturally without hormonal
birth control, or if an IUDisn't for you, if you don't want
to rely on condoms, then it's agreat tool to help you
(02:30):
understand when your fertilewindow is and when it is not.
Also, it's a great tool, asyou'll hear us talk about, to
just understand, like, let meget in touch with my body, let
me get in touch with my cycleand understand what's happening
for all of this time between oneperiod and the next, because,
well, you already know if you'relistening to the podcast here,
(02:52):
but there's a lot that'schanging.
So this is not the rhythmmethod, this isn't natural
cycles.
This is a science-backed,effective method to understand
your fertile windows, and Ican't wait to get into it with
you.
You can connect with Nat onInstagram at
(03:12):
fertilityawarenessproject, oryou can check out
fertilityawarenessprojectca, herwebsite, where you can grab a
hold of some of her freebiesthere.
So, with all of that being said, enjoy this episode and I will
see you on the other side.
Why don't we really start fromthe start?
And for somebody who isn'tfamiliar with the fertility
(03:33):
awareness method, hasn't heardof that before what is it?
What should they know as wedive into this conversation?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I think a lot of people get natural cycles ads or
hear about the rhythm method orhear about maybe their
grandma's natural familyplanning.
There's a lot of misconceptionsout there around what exactly
fertility awareness is.
So I think just laying thegroundwork from my perspective
(04:02):
on what FAM is is, I teach, asecular, evidence-based approach
to charting ovulation.
So it's your ovulation signsand knowing when you're fertile
and when you're not, and you canuse that information to avoid
pregnancy, to get pregnant or tojust understand your body and
(04:23):
your cycle.
So it's not woo, it's notrelying on an app.
It's using your own knowledgeto interpret your body,
specifically your ovulation sign, so that you can get in touch
with more than just when yourperiod is happening, but also
everything that happens betweenone period and the next, but
(04:44):
also everything that happensbetween one period and the next.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, excited to break down what does happen
between one period and the next.
And why don't we start off byalso looking at what are you
actually charting?
What are those signs ofovulation that are really
important?
And then, when we were talkingabout charting, what does that
actually mean?
Are we like we've got a paperchart up on the wall, or is this
a digital thing?
What's common?
What's simple?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So there's a bunch of different ovulation signs that
are ranging from less reliableto more reliable and signs that
point to ovulation about tohappen or confirming it in the
past.
So I call those retrospectiveor prospective ovulation signs,
without getting too too deep.
(05:32):
The signs that I really likeand that have the most evidence
behind them are going to tellyou the best data about your
cycle.
So, for example, you'll hearpeople talk about changes in
their cycle, like changes inlibido or painful breasts or
bloating, like things that dochange with the cycle.
(05:53):
However, they're not reliablein that they're going to show up
reliably every single time whenyou do ovulate.
So things that I prefer totrack are basal body temperature
, cervical mucus and sometimesLH tests.
So basal body temperature isgoing to tell us when ovulation
has happened in the past andcervical mucus is going to tell
(06:16):
us when it's coming.
And LH tests are a little bitless reliable.
They're not going to be greatfor everybody, but for a lot of
people they're going to beanother prospective ovulation
sign or telling you ovulation iscoming.
So tracking this in a way likethere's so many apps out there
that have algorithms and if youfollow me on Instagram, I'm like
(06:37):
anti algorithm.
It's not that I hate algorithms.
It's just like I think I haveirregular cycles and I'm always
testing these apps and they'rejust like.
I think I have irregular cyclesand I'm always testing these
apps and they're just likegetting my cycle so wrong and
I'm always sharing all mystories about what's actually
happening and how the apps areworking.
So I really steer clear of anyalgorithm they're usually not
(06:57):
great and instead fully manualcharting app.
So an app like Read your Bodyis my favorite.
You can also chart on a paperchart, but it's less convenient
because you can't go throughoutyour day and then update your
chart as you go you need to waittill you get home.
So I really prefer the apps andthere are other manual charting
(07:19):
apps out there.
I just really like Read yourBody, but something that allows
you to fully mark up your chartso you can take your data, have
somewhere to put it things likebase body temperature, cervical
mucus et cetera and then you canactually interpret that
information and it can tell yousomething about your fertility.
And being able to manually putthings into the chart is going
(07:39):
to give you that decision-makinginformation.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, I think that, or something I think about.
Something I experienced myselfis that with an app where I'm
like, okay, I'm going to go inand log, I'm going to learn some
things from what the algorithmis suggesting to me or assuming
for me, that can be kind ofhelpful at the start.
But then there's a point whereit's like well, unfortunately in
(08:04):
some situations it's like well,unfortunately in some
situations it's like, okay, Iguess I need to pay for the
upgrade to premium so that,instead of just giving a random
algorithm, it will like actuallydo more math from my basal body
temperature or otherwise.
But read your body.
I hadn't heard of that one.
So that's a good one to beaware of.
(08:24):
And you know, I kind of reallyjust jumped into the questions
on what is FAM.
I didn't even ask you tointroduce yourself.
Do you want to give us arundown, like give listeners the
rundown of how you work withclients, like what's your jam?
Give us a little bit on you,nat.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, well, I'll start with the things that
people actually care about,which is that I'm a Virgo, I'm
an over responsible eldestdaughter, I live in Canada, I
have a wobbly cat named Kurt andwhat else.
I am really obsessed with coloranalysis, like I got my colors
done last year and everythingthat I see around me and and
(09:02):
like really obsess over I.
And yeah, i'm'm just a verycreative person.
I really enjoy marketing.
I really enjoy social media.
I love A gift.
Yeah, I love women's health andI love fertility awareness, and
when I get obsessed aboutsomething, I have to tell
(09:23):
everybody.
So, for example, learning mycolors was one of them, but also
learning fertility awarenesswas another, where, when I
learned it, I was like I need totell everybody about this.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I didn't know there was an option that was not
hormonal birth control, I didn'tknow I could chart ovulation,
and so I just became absolutelyobsessed when I this was about
nine was it nine years ago?
Nine years ago, when I firstlearned to chart with fertility
awareness and online, therereally wasn't a whole lot.
There was the community tab ofKindara and there was a few
(09:58):
Facebook groups and I just waslike, oh, I really wish I could
teach people in my living room,Just like one day I would love
to be able to teach this topeople, and I was also a social
worker.
So I was like I know you haveyour past life of your like
previous work.
Mine was in social work and inmental health and I was really
(10:21):
just on the side, likepassionate about fertility
awareness, learning everythingthat I could.
And then I took a couple oftrainings to certify as a
fertility awareness educator andspecializing really with folks
who want to avoid pregnancy withfertility awareness, and
obviously there's other thingsthat come out of it.
But I think like there's a needfor, I guess, secular charting
(10:46):
approaches for folks who want?
to avoid pregnancy, so that'sreally where it came to be.
It was something that I wantedto learn personally.
I didn't want to go on the pill, I didn't want to only use
condoms, and so I was like, oh,is there like a third option?
And fertility awareness was thethird option.
So that's kind of how it cameto be, and I teach clients in a
(11:10):
program called Cycle Love, andthat's really the bulk of what I
do.
I also teach fertilityawareness educators in Fertility
Knowledge Collective.
We just started a certificationprogram, which is super
exciting, and I love cervicalmucus.
My Instagram bio is cervicalmucus queen, and so that just
(11:32):
tells you everything you need toknow.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I saw that and I loved it.
Yesterday, when I was kind ofgetting my notes together, I was
like, oh yes, finally we knowour cervical mucus queen.
The day has come, we're ready.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I never thought I would be talking about cervical
mucus, but it's just like noteven a thing now, really yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I feel you, yeah, when I mentioned my like itchy
vagina.
That started my wholetransformation into learning
about hormones and things andI'm like well, who would have
thought it's just normalized now.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, a couple of questions before I get back to
fam stuff um uh, wobbly cat.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Why is kurt wobbly also?
So kurt also confusingly is agirl.
Um, it's very confusing, butkurt has a syndrome called
cerebral hypoplasia and so herback legs when she was a kitten
and her back legs like were notdeveloped and her like
coordination part of her brainwasn't developed.
(12:31):
It happens to dogs too, and sowe picked her up at shelter,
like we just went one daylooking for cats and we saw kurt
and she was like stumbling,like running into the wall, but
like so cuddly and just likecrawled right into her laps and
so we took her home that day andshe walks like she's drunk
that's the best way I candescribe it.
(12:51):
She can't walk in a straightline and she's falling off of
stuff all the time and it's veryendearing and very sweet and
also very funny.
So that seems really sweet it'sthe wobbly cat and she's like
like she slips on the floor,like her back legs won't like,
yeah, she's not very graceful,I'll just put it that way.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, that's got to be super cute, though I know
that when you started itcharting, when you started
learning about FAM, that you yousaid that you weren't on birth
control, right.
And so then there are theseyears of like you realizing okay
, this is what I want to showout from the rooftops.
I need to make this switch.
And so I'm curious, what else?
(13:32):
Because I know you mentionedyou have irregular cycles, like,
what did you learn about yourirregular cycles?
And before I let you answer mylast, last nugget on that, is
that a lot of folks listening toI'm Hormonal are here, right,
because they're trying tounderstand how they can have
more balanced hormones, likemake sense of what's going on in
their bodies, and so a lot ofthem have irregular cycles.
(13:55):
So, anyway, that's all to say.
What did you learn about yourcycles and about PCOS?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I didn't really know that I had PCOS until I started
paying attention to my cycles.
I used to just circle on acalendar like the day my period
would start and I had a sense ofhow long my cycles were.
I didn't feel that they werevery irregular.
But when I started in-depthfertility charting and having
all this data and being like,okay, your cycles can sometimes
(14:25):
be over a hundred days long,even longer then I started
realizing like okay, this isdefinitely something and it
really pushed me to get adiagnosis, to get labs done and
to like I know you talk aboutthe root cause a lot, but to
really like dig into why mycycles are the way they are.
(14:46):
And I don't know.
I think you're asking me rightnow when, like, my cycles are
back to being really irregular.
So I feel like it just dependson the day.
But I think I really walk thisfine line between acceptance and
action.
So action in that finding outwhy cycles are the way they are
(15:07):
and changing lifestyle stuff,doing what you can to address
those things.
But also I've had a lot ofexperience in my years of
charting where I've done all ofthis stuff and my cycles have
still been really irregular andsomebody in the hormone healing
and fertility space.
It's this like voice in my headconstantly where it's like,
(15:28):
well, there's all these thingsthat you should be doing, like
surely your cycle should beregular by now and if not, then
you're doing something wrong.
And so then I go into thatacceptance like swing back into
the acceptance side, where it'slike trusting in my body and
trusting in that my baseline isnot regular.
(15:49):
And it never has been.
I've had more irregularity thanregularity, no matter what I do.
So and like also being again inthis space where it's I'm
thinking about all the all thetime, looking at people's charts
all the time, like it's justvery present and so having that
acceptance and grace for myselfwhere I'm at and and knowing
(16:10):
that, yeah, like I'm stressedright now I was just telling
Bridget like lots of life thingshappening right now and I know
I'm stressed, I know my cycle islong because I'm stressed and
that's okay Like I don't need tocreate another tension where
I'm starting to like see thatpressure as another form of
stress, like the pressure tohave a perfect cycle.
(16:31):
So I think that's like the longanswer of what my journey has
been like with PCOS.
My PCOS is not great, like mycycles are still really
irregular and my journey, orlike my lesson, has been around
really accepting that.
And it's like being theover-responsible eldest daughter
where, like everything in mylife is like I need to fix this,
(16:53):
not letting my cycle be anotherthing to fix, and really just
like letting myself be a messyhuman.
That isn't perfect, so reallyjust like letting myself be a
messy human that isn't perfect,so.
But charting has, at the sametime, like that's where this
balance is, because charting hasreally given me the tools to
advocate for myself and workwith different providers, and I
(17:15):
do know what's underlying it andthat's things to fertility
awareness and charting and likereally being aware of it.
It and that's thanks tofertility awareness and charting
and like really being aware ofit, but that awareness can
sometimes be like almost toomuch information, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, where you're a little hyper fixated, exactly,
yeah, I think, though I mean sowell said and, I think,
inspiring, hopefully forlisteners out there who are like
, hey, yeah, we don't have tohave it all together all the
time.
Like there are just no matterhow much you know about, right
in my case hormones likecervical mucus, all of the
(17:48):
things like sometimes lifehappens, sometimes we're
stressed and then we say, oh,okay, well, body, I see that
you're like getting these.
You know you're trying to sendme a little message so I can
respond to that in whatever waythat works for my lifestyle, for
some folks and even, admittedly, for myself too a little bit.
(18:09):
I'm not sure about like, or thequestion that comes up in my
brain is when cycles areirregular, is there a more or
let, or is it just requiringmore observation and more
(18:32):
proactivity in those?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
cases.
No, it's not less effective.
It just means you may have lessavailable days to go
unprotected.
So when the follicular phase orthe first half of the cycle is
drawn out.
So if you do have longer cycles, it's typically because it's
just taking you longer toovulate.
So the first half of the cycleis going to be longer and a lot
(18:54):
of symptom thermal methods.
You'll use a calculation rule toopen the fertile window or a
dough ring rule and once youpass that date then you can't go
unprotected until you confirmovulation, and that can be an
undetermined amount of time ifyou have a regular cycle.
So it just means you're relyingon barrier methods or
(19:15):
alternative sex or whateveryou're using in the fertile
window if you're avoiding formore of the time.
But every single I want to sayevery single cycle that I've had
, that's been really weird, likeeven as like months and months
and months long cycle when I doovulate, because I'm charting
reliable, evidence basedovulation signs.
(19:36):
It shows up in my chart everysingle time.
Ovulation is never ambiguous ifyou're charting in the right
way.
No matter how long or shortyour cycles are.
It just means if you areavoiding and you have long
cycles, you may need to waitlonger till you can go
unprotected.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Got it.
And just to make sure that I'mclear, I guess and listeners are
clear too about what you'recharting, that's your cervical
mucus, that's your welltemperature.
I'm curious too if you trackyour temperature every day or
just like after you see a changein cervical mucus.
And then you mentioned LHstrips and I wonder, do you
track cervical positioning?
(20:14):
But I guess, kind of all ofthat thinking, could you walk us
through what, in an averageweek or whatever frame of time,
does it actually look like to bepracticing FAM and how that
fits into your normal life?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
There's two sides to charting with fertility
awareness.
One is gathering theinformation about your body and
the other is interpreting it.
So the gathering of informationdoesn't take very long.
It takes maybe two or lessminutes a day and the
interpretation is upfrontinformation that you need to
learn to understand your chart.
(20:50):
So it's like understanding, forexample, what a temperature
shift is, what a cover line is,what peak day is, how to open
the fertile window, how to closethe fertile window, and the
information that that gives youabout your body and decision
making.
The data collection or chartingthese signs like cervical mucus
, basal body temperature thattakes very little time.
(21:12):
So it's like an upfrontlearning or an upfront
investment in understanding howthese play together.
So we're not just chartingcervical mucus in isolation,
we're looking to see if thecervical mucus pattern is also
reflecting the temperaturepattern and what those two
things are telling us about whenwe're safe to go unprotected.
(21:33):
So everything is workingtogether.
And so cervical mucus, we'recharting with my mindful mucus
method.
We're charting throughout theday, essentially all the time.
So it's sensation that you feelthroughout the day and anything
that you happen to see when yougo to the bathroom, and then
basal body temperature is yourlowest body temperature attained
(21:53):
during rest and you'll want tochart it all cycle.
So you'll want to see a patternthat changes before ovulation
to after ovulation and you canuse a regular oral basal body
thermometer that goes to twodecimal places or you can use a
wearable like TempDrop.
Right now there's no otherwearables I would recommend.
Tempdrop is the only one thatI've seen consistently matches
(22:18):
up with oral temperaturepatterns.
But you'll want to chart.
So in a week you'll be chartingwhen you wake up in the morning
, taking your basal bodytemperature before you get out
of bed and then throughout theday paying attention to any
sensation you happen to notice,as well as anything you happen
to see when you go to thebathroom, and then at the end of
the day, typically you'll putthat in your chart.
(22:40):
So you'll put your most fertilecervical mucus observation in
the chart, you'll upload yourtemp drop temps or you'll record
your oral temps in your chartand then that will give you a
picture, like a little sliver ofinformation, as to your
fertility status that day.
You asked about LH testing andcervical position.
(23:01):
Lh testing will offer some goodinformation.
I recommend it in some cases,but a lot of people struggle to
get positive.
So either, like you easily getpositives with lh tests, or you
are really unsure and confusedwith ovulation and the reason is
it's about catching your surge.
(23:21):
So everybody's LH surge isgoing to be a different length
and the trick is to test duringyour window where LH is surging
and if you miss that window youcan still ovulate, even if you
didn't get a positive or youmissed your positive.
So that's where it's like alittle bit tricky.
Sometimes it takes a little bitof coaching to get it right,
but it's a very clear, objectivesign when you do get a positive
(23:43):
.
I've also had long cycles whereI've had positives and hadn't
ovulated.
That's more, I would say, aPCOS consideration.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
LH strips.
Are those exactly the same asovulation strips or is there
something slightly different?
I don't know if it's liketomato, tomato those.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
There are a bunch of different kinds.
So, the regular threshold.
Lh tests read as positive ornegative and you read them with
your own eyes.
There are also ovulationpredictor kits that interpret
that reading for you.
So they're usually like theclear blue plastic kits and
they're typically more expensive.
(24:17):
They do the exact same thingbut they just give you like a
smiley face.
Some of them also measureestrogen.
And then there's also stufflike the Mira fertility monitor
that measures a bunch ofdifferent hormones, but
essentially it will also giveyou like a reading as to the
level of LH.
And there are also LH teststhat will give you, instead of a
(24:38):
positive or negative, they'llgive you like a number.
So the most basic LH tests thatwill give you instead of a
positive or negative, they'llgive you like a number.
So the most basic LH tests areusually just fine.
They're called threshold LHtests and they're in like little
foil packets.
You can buy them really cheapin like a box of 50.
Yeah, those are usually fine.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, okay, and for somebody who isn't sure what
we're talking about when we sayLH, I'll just decrypt that super
quick, lh being luteinizinghormone, which is one of the
hormones that, just before youovulate, will spike.
So that's why, right, thatwould be a good indicator that,
hey girl, you're about toovulate.
Or, like you were saying,sometimes there will be an LH
(25:19):
spike but no ovulation, whichwould be noted by an increase in
your basal body temperature,and that could be for any number
of reasons.
But whether it's tied to PCOS,or tied to stress, or tied to
whatever other fluke of ourcycle, of our hormones,
sometimes we just don't ovulatein a cycle, and so that's.
(25:40):
I just wanted to add that incase somebody's like what's LH
Go?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
ahead.
I think I cut you off too.
Did you have something else?
There's one more question.
You asked about cervicalposition.
I don't teach cervical position.
It is a less reliable ovulationsign.
Some people do find thatthere's some fluctuation in
their cervix height and softnessthroughout the cycle.
However, it is less reliablethan other ovulation signs, so I
(26:07):
don't typically teach cervicalposition.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Is there a certain amount of time that somebody
would want to practice chartingbefore they, I guess, rely on
their observations to preventpregnancy?
I'm sure that within the firstcycle they're like okay, cool, I
see it, I see the ovulationhappened, I see these signs.
But yeah, what's that normaltime span look like before?
Somebody is like all right, I'mready, we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
It depends.
It depends on how you'relearning.
So if you're working with afertility awareness educator
closely who's coaching youthrough meeting with you every
two weeks or every month, thenyou'll probably feel more
confident to go unprotectedsooner.
If you're self-teaching, thenif you have regular cycles, you
(26:57):
could theoretically gounprotected.
The first cycle that youconfirm ovulation Depends where
in your cycle you start charting.
But if your cycles are, ifyou're just coming off birth
control, if you have PCOS, ifyou're postpartum, a lot of
those scenarios are going tomake it trickier to self-teach
(27:17):
or to DIY and go unprotectedquickly.
A fertility awareness educatorwill get you there faster.
It just depends like where inyour cycle you start charting
and other factors.
But as soon as your firstovulation is confirmed is like
the soonest that you could gounprotected.
Okay, cool.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So different for everybody, but once you see the
first temperature change, thenyou're in good shape.
One thing I wanted to talk toyou about is fertility awareness
, like compared and contrastedwith cycle awareness.
I'm curious if those things foryou are basically
interchangeable terms or ifthere is any difference there
(27:59):
and like, maybe if that'simportant to the fertility
awareness journey.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, I think they definitely go hand in hand.
I think knowing your ovulationsigns intimately just means that
you're paying attention to yourcycle naturally, and I think
with that comes an awareness ofthe phases of your cycle and how
you feel and how that changesthroughout the cycle.
(28:25):
I think fertility awareness canmake your menstrual cycle
awareness practice more accurate.
So a lot of people who are justcharting their cycle or cycle
awareness are estimating whenthey ovulate and when we think
about the phases of the cycleand how our energy shifts
throughout the cycle, fertilityawareness offers that more
(28:47):
pinpointed window of ovulation,no matter how long or short your
cycle is.
So I think they definitely gohand in hand and I think a lot
of people come to fertilityawareness and then the natural
next step is to really payattention to how they feel
throughout the cycle too.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Do most people who come to you like most of your
clients or gals in your program?
Are they mostly coming to youbecause they want to avoid
pregnancy or because they wantto become pregnant?
I'm just curious what mostpeople are interested in when
they come to you.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Most people are interested in avoiding pregnancy
, or they've just come off birthcontrol or they're looking for
a bridge after coming off birthcontrol.
But I've been doing this for awhile and now I have folks who
learned with me to avoidpregnancy and they're reaching
out and they're like hey, I'mlooking to get pregnant or I use
the same information to getpregnant, so it is a lifelong
(29:44):
thing.
But most people will come to mewhen they're wanting to avoid.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Okay, yeah, definitely In my mind I imagine
in your mind too is a tool likeliterally any phase of life.
This is a fam is a tool to getto know my body, to get to
understand what my body's tryingto tell me and then to, yeah,
accomplish any sort of familyplanning or avoiding goals there
.
Absolutely yeah, what are somelike myths or like just
(30:11):
absolutely insane things thatpeople ask you?
Or maybe something that you seeI don't know some other creator
on social media or whateversaying, but like what's
something that you see I don'tknow some other creator on
social media or whatever saying,but like what's something, if
anything, that you're like oh myGod, I can't believe that
somebody posted about that.
Or just like this is somethingthat is we got to rewrite, we
(30:31):
got to like correct the story onthis.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
This isn't exactly what you're asking, but
something I've been thinking alot about lately is cycle
syncing, especially in longer,irregular cycles, and this very
like prescriptive approach tocycle syncing.
So when you're in, when you'reovulating, like this is the list
of things that you'llexperience and when you're
premenstrual, like this is thelist of all the things that
(30:57):
you'll want to do.
And, as somebody who has liketried and failed to plan my life
around my cycle because I neverknow when I'm going to ovulate,
I really like push back againstthis prescriptive cycle singing
because I'm approaching it moreas like what do I, how do I
feel today and what do I need?
(31:18):
Knowing where I am in my cycle,but also knowing that I could be
follicular, I could be preovulatory for a very long time,
and so I really think thatsocial media has kind of like
created this monster with cyclesyncing and like almost like a
new shame or guilt when youdon't do the things that you're
(31:40):
supposed to do, say in yourpremenstrual, when you don't
rest on your period.
And I think there is anotherway.
There's like a more gentle,real life way, because we can't
always plan around our periodand we can't always plan around
ovulation and I would love to beable to schedule my launches
(32:01):
around my period.
But the amount of times thatI've done that and then I have
gotten my period the week of alaunch, it's like you just you
roll with it and you check inwith what you need every day and
just be more flexible around it.
So I know that's not exactlylike a fam myth, but something
that I've been thinking a lotabout lately.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Now I think that's something that is maybe not
tippy top of mind, but somethingI think about a lot too,
because, from my perspective,when gals are asking about how
they can restore balance intheir hormones and I think
psychosyncing is a really greattool to help you kind of reflect
(32:40):
on what you're feeling but atthe same time it can be overly
prescriptive and it's notnecessarily going to fix
something what is there that wehaven't talked about that you
think is important to touch on?
You wouldn't want somebody tofinish this conversation without
hearing, or do you feel likewe've covered most of the bases?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I feel like there's so much more that we can talk
about.
I think.
I feel like there's we haven'ttalked about.
We haven't talked a ton aboutcervical mucus, but I do have a
free intro to cervical mucus.
It's a free video course, sopeople want to learn more about
that.
It's called Mucus Made Easy andI feel like, just yeah, I love
(33:25):
what you said to Bridget aroundapps and algorithms being a
starting point.
And then if people arewondering, like what is my app
actually doing to give me thisinformation, that's what I'm
always looking at when I'mtesting, like the ultra human
ring right now and using the appor natural cycles experiments.
It's like how and why is theapp giving me this information?
(33:46):
If you're starting to havethose thoughts and questions,
diving into an in-depthfertility awareness method is
one way of kind of closing thatloop and going a level deeper.
So I have a bunch of resourceson that on my blog and freebies
that go more in depth into likehow you can actually learn the
(34:06):
rules and all of that.
So if people are curious afterlistening to this, there's just
like so much more under thesurface that you can dig into
and get excited about.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Okay, perfect, so we'll put the link to that guide
in the show notes here.
Let's just chit-chat oncervical mucus for a hot sec to
give a sneak peek.
Why might somebody want to orneed to investigate there more?
And I've talked about cervicalmucus on the podcast here before
(34:36):
, so probably maybe a listenerisn't totally new to the
conversation.
But what's the thing that mostpeople get wrong about cervical
mucus?
More is better.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
They think that more is better.
So we see these pictures ofcopious amounts of clear egg,
white, stretchy mucus and Ithink people look at that and
they're like I just came out ofbirth control.
I never see that.
Am I still fertile?
Like, am I ovulating?
And the answer is yeah, likeyou probably are still ovulating
, your signs are just going tobe a lot more subtle and you're
(35:09):
focusing on sensation is goingto really really help you.
So it's the thing that we feelthroughout the day and we don't
necessarily pay attention to orthink of as reliable information
, because we're taught that moreis better and like this subtle
sign is not something that wereally learn how to chart.
So I teach that inside ofmindful mucus method, but really
(35:30):
it's like you're charting allyou're aware all the time and
you're paying attention to themore subtle signs as well as
what you happen to see.
But a lot of people don't see alot of mucus, and if you've had,
like, a leap procedure or ifyou're just coming off birth
control, you might see verylittle.
You might have a lot ofunchanging mucus day after day,
(35:51):
and so it's just about finding away for you to actually know
when you're fertile.
All that stuff is happening.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Okay, and there's nothing bad about having, like,
more cervical mucus.
That's just.
Some people are at some phasesof their life.
It's just that it's notnecessarily an indication of
their fertile window, is that?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
the just in most cases.
No, it's not a bad thing If youhave lots of cervical mucus.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I think this has been a helpful conversation for
folks to just dip their toes ina little bit when it comes to
FAM and know that they have aresource out there in you to
learn more about it and actuallyput it into practice when
they're ready, regardless ofwhat their life stage is or what
their goals are or what theirperiod is like right now.
(36:37):
So that's really valuable.
How can listeners connect withyou?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
So, yeah, this has been a great chat and thanks for
having me Bridget.
You can find me on Instagram atfertilityawarenessproject, and
then my website isfertilityawarenessprojectca.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
All right, my friend.
That is it for today.
I hope that you loved thisconversation between Nat and I.
Again, you can connect with Naton Instagram at
fertilityawarenessproject.
You can check out her website,fertilityawarenessprojectca.
Both of those and more aregoing to be linked in the show
(37:16):
notes below, so make sure thatyou connect with her.
If you have any questions forme, for Nat, then send them our
way and I will leave you withthat.
Thanks again for listening, forsubscribing, and we'll see you
on the next one.
If you loved today's episodeand got something good out of it
, make sure you subscribe sothat these episodes show up
(37:38):
automatically in your feed, nowork needed on your side.
Let's put it on autopilot.
As always, I need to give youmy reminder that the information
I share with you here is foreducational purposes only, and
it should not be used as areplacement for medical advice
or diagnosis.
Now, if you are, on the otherhand, in the market for some
one-on-one support, then I wouldlove for you to take me up on
(38:01):
my offer for a free strategycall.
You can find these links andmore in the show notes.
All right, we'll see you on thenext one.
If you're someone who wants to avoid taking hormonal
birth control and you want toplan for or avoid conception
more naturally, you need tolisten to this episode on the
Fertility Awareness Method, orFAM.
I'm interviewing Nat and she'sbreaking down what FAM is and
why it can be an insightfulresource, regardless of where
you're at with your hormonebalance, period, regularity or
(00:21):
desire to get pregnant.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to I'm Hormonal, yoursource of information about
women's hormone health and howto support your body naturally.
I'm your host, bridget Walton,and I'm a certified functional
hormone specialist and menstrualcycle coach.
I am on a mission to hold thesehormone conversations with as
(00:41):
many menstruators as possible,because you deserve easier
access to accurate informationabout what's up with your unruly
menstrual cycle and with yourfertility mysteries.
Don't you think it's time thatwe figure this out once and for
all?
Hello, hello, welcome to thisepisode, number 110 of I'm
(01:02):
Hormonal.
I'm your host, bridget Walton.
I'm so excited, as always, thatyou are here with me today and
we're going to jump into thisconversation that I had with Nat
here shortly.
You're going to love it.
But first of all, I just wantto say thank you so much for
sharing the episodes that havemeant the most to you, with your
friends, for helping me toexpand the I'm Hormonal
(01:23):
community.
Thank you for those of you whoare listening for the first time
.
Again, my name is Bridget andI'm a women's hormone coach.
I started this podcast over ayear and a half ago because I
think that we all deserve moreinformation, better information,
easier access to thatinformation about how our bodies
work.
(01:43):
So that's what we are up tohere.
As you've heard, we're going tobe talking about the fertility
awareness method today, and I'lljust introduce Nat real quick.
Nat is a fertility awarenesseducator.
She's also the cervical mucusqueen.
Her business, fertilityAwareness Project, is one that
(02:08):
works with women who are lookingto use yes, you guessed it the
fertility awareness method as areal, reliable birth control.
Right, if you want to do thingsmore naturally without hormonal
birth control, or if an IUDisn't for you, if you don't want
to rely on condoms, then it's agreat tool to help you
(02:30):
understand when your fertilewindow is and when it is not.
Also, it's a great tool, asyou'll hear us talk about, to
just understand, like, let meget in touch with my body, let
me get in touch with my cycleand understand what's happening
for all of this time between oneperiod and the next, because,
well, you already know if you'relistening to the podcast here,
(02:52):
but there's a lot that'schanging.
So this is not the rhythmmethod, this isn't natural
cycles.
This is a science-backed,effective method to understand
your fertile windows, and Ican't wait to get into it with
you.
You can connect with Nat onInstagram at
(03:12):
fertilityawarenessproject, oryou can check out
fertilityawarenessprojectca, herwebsite, where you can grab a
hold of some of her freebiesthere.
So, with all of that being said, enjoy this episode and I will
see you on the other side.
Why don't we really start fromthe start?
And for somebody who isn'tfamiliar with the fertility
(03:33):
awareness method, hasn't heardof that before what is it?
What should they know as wedive into this conversation?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I think a lot of people get natural cycles ads or
hear about the rhythm method orhear about maybe their
grandma's natural familyplanning.
There's a lot of misconceptionsout there around what exactly
fertility awareness is.
So I think just laying thegroundwork from my perspective
(04:02):
on what FAM is is, I teach, asecular, evidence-based approach
to charting ovulation.
So it's your ovulation signsand knowing when you're fertile
and when you're not, and you canuse that information to avoid
pregnancy, to get pregnant or tojust understand your body and
(04:23):
your cycle.
So it's not woo, it's notrelying on an app.
It's using your own knowledgeto interpret your body,
specifically your ovulation sign, so that you can get in touch
with more than just when yourperiod is happening, but also
everything that happens betweenone period and the next, but
(04:44):
also everything that happensbetween one period and the next.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, excited to break down what does happen
between one period and the next.
And why don't we start off byalso looking at what are you
actually charting?
What are those signs ofovulation that are really
important?
And then, when we were talkingabout charting, what does that
actually mean?
Are we like we've got a paperchart up on the wall, or is this
a digital thing?
What's common?
What's simple?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So there's a bunch of different ovulation signs that
are ranging from less reliableto more reliable and signs that
point to ovulation about tohappen or confirming it in the
past.
So I call those retrospectiveor prospective ovulation signs,
without getting too too deep.
(05:32):
The signs that I really likeand that have the most evidence
behind them are going to tellyou the best data about your
cycle.
So, for example, you'll hearpeople talk about changes in
their cycle, like changes inlibido or painful breasts or
bloating, like things that dochange with the cycle.
(05:53):
However, they're not reliablein that they're going to show up
reliably every single time whenyou do ovulate.
So things that I prefer totrack are basal body temperature
, cervical mucus and sometimesLH tests.
So basal body temperature isgoing to tell us when ovulation
has happened in the past andcervical mucus is going to tell
(06:16):
us when it's coming.
And LH tests are a little bitless reliable.
They're not going to be greatfor everybody, but for a lot of
people they're going to beanother prospective ovulation
sign or telling you ovulation iscoming.
So tracking this in a way likethere's so many apps out there
that have algorithms and if youfollow me on Instagram, I'm like
(06:37):
anti algorithm.
It's not that I hate algorithms.
It's just like I think I haveirregular cycles and I'm always
testing these apps and they'rejust like.
I think I have irregular cyclesand I'm always testing these
apps and they're just likegetting my cycle so wrong and
I'm always sharing all mystories about what's actually
happening and how the apps areworking.
So I really steer clear of anyalgorithm they're usually not
(06:57):
great and instead fully manualcharting app.
So an app like Read your Bodyis my favorite.
You can also chart on a paperchart, but it's less convenient
because you can't go throughoutyour day and then update your
chart as you go you need to waittill you get home.
So I really prefer the apps andthere are other manual charting
(07:19):
apps out there.
I just really like Read yourBody, but something that allows
you to fully mark up your chartso you can take your data, have
somewhere to put it things likebase body temperature, cervical
mucus et cetera and then you canactually interpret that
information and it can tell yousomething about your fertility.
And being able to manually putthings into the chart is going
(07:39):
to give you that decision-makinginformation.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, I think that, or something I think about.
Something I experienced myselfis that with an app where I'm
like, okay, I'm going to go inand log, I'm going to learn some
things from what the algorithmis suggesting to me or assuming
for me, that can be kind ofhelpful at the start.
But then there's a point whereit's like well, unfortunately in
(08:04):
some situations it's like well,unfortunately in some
situations it's like, okay, Iguess I need to pay for the
upgrade to premium so that,instead of just giving a random
algorithm, it will like actuallydo more math from my basal body
temperature or otherwise.
But read your body.
I hadn't heard of that one.
So that's a good one to beaware of.
(08:24):
And you know, I kind of reallyjust jumped into the questions
on what is FAM.
I didn't even ask you tointroduce yourself.
Do you want to give us arundown, like give listeners the
rundown of how you work withclients, like what's your jam?
Give us a little bit on you,nat.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, well, I'll start with the things that
people actually care about,which is that I'm a Virgo, I'm
an over responsible eldestdaughter, I live in Canada, I
have a wobbly cat named Kurt andwhat else.
I am really obsessed with coloranalysis, like I got my colors
done last year and everythingthat I see around me and and
(09:02):
like really obsess over I.
And yeah, i'm'm just a verycreative person.
I really enjoy marketing.
I really enjoy social media.
I love A gift.
Yeah, I love women's health andI love fertility awareness, and
when I get obsessed aboutsomething, I have to tell
(09:23):
everybody.
So, for example, learning mycolors was one of them, but also
learning fertility awarenesswas another, where, when I
learned it, I was like I need totell everybody about this.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I didn't know there was an option that was not
hormonal birth control, I didn'tknow I could chart ovulation,
and so I just became absolutelyobsessed when I this was about
nine was it nine years ago?
Nine years ago, when I firstlearned to chart with fertility
awareness and online, therereally wasn't a whole lot.
There was the community tab ofKindara and there was a few
(09:58):
Facebook groups and I just waslike, oh, I really wish I could
teach people in my living room,Just like one day I would love
to be able to teach this topeople, and I was also a social
worker.
So I was like I know you haveyour past life of your like
previous work.
Mine was in social work and inmental health and I was really
(10:21):
just on the side, likepassionate about fertility
awareness, learning everythingthat I could.
And then I took a couple oftrainings to certify as a
fertility awareness educator andspecializing really with folks
who want to avoid pregnancy withfertility awareness, and
obviously there's other thingsthat come out of it.
But I think like there's a needfor, I guess, secular charting
(10:46):
approaches for folks who want?
to avoid pregnancy, so that'sreally where it came to be.
It was something that I wantedto learn personally.
I didn't want to go on the pill, I didn't want to only use
condoms, and so I was like, oh,is there like a third option?
And fertility awareness was thethird option.
So that's kind of how it cameto be, and I teach clients in a
(11:10):
program called Cycle Love, andthat's really the bulk of what I
do.
I also teach fertilityawareness educators in Fertility
Knowledge Collective.
We just started a certificationprogram, which is super
exciting, and I love cervicalmucus.
My Instagram bio is cervicalmucus queen, and so that just
(11:32):
tells you everything you need toknow.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I saw that and I loved it.
Yesterday, when I was kind ofgetting my notes together, I was
like, oh yes, finally we knowour cervical mucus queen.
The day has come, we're ready.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I never thought I would be talking about cervical
mucus, but it's just like noteven a thing now, really yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I feel you, yeah, when I mentioned my like itchy
vagina.
That started my wholetransformation into learning
about hormones and things andI'm like well, who would have
thought it's just normalized now.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, a couple of questions before I get back to
fam stuff um uh, wobbly cat.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Why is kurt wobbly also?
So kurt also confusingly is agirl.
Um, it's very confusing, butkurt has a syndrome called
cerebral hypoplasia and so herback legs when she was a kitten
and her back legs like were notdeveloped and her like
coordination part of her brainwasn't developed.
(12:31):
It happens to dogs too, and sowe picked her up at shelter,
like we just went one daylooking for cats and we saw kurt
and she was like stumbling,like running into the wall, but
like so cuddly and just likecrawled right into her laps and
so we took her home that day andshe walks like she's drunk
that's the best way I candescribe it.
(12:51):
She can't walk in a straightline and she's falling off of
stuff all the time and it's veryendearing and very sweet and
also very funny.
So that seems really sweet it'sthe wobbly cat and she's like
like she slips on the floor,like her back legs won't like,
yeah, she's not very graceful,I'll just put it that way.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, that's got to be super cute, though I know
that when you started itcharting, when you started
learning about FAM, that you yousaid that you weren't on birth
control, right.
And so then there are theseyears of like you realizing okay
, this is what I want to showout from the rooftops.
I need to make this switch.
And so I'm curious, what else?
(13:32):
Because I know you mentionedyou have irregular cycles, like,
what did you learn about yourirregular cycles?
And before I let you answer mylast, last nugget on that, is
that a lot of folks listening toI'm Hormonal are here, right,
because they're trying tounderstand how they can have
more balanced hormones, likemake sense of what's going on in
their bodies, and so a lot ofthem have irregular cycles.
(13:55):
So, anyway, that's all to say.
What did you learn about yourcycles and about PCOS?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I didn't really know that I had PCOS until I started
paying attention to my cycles.
I used to just circle on acalendar like the day my period
would start and I had a sense ofhow long my cycles were.
I didn't feel that they werevery irregular.
But when I started in-depthfertility charting and having
all this data and being like,okay, your cycles can sometimes
(14:25):
be over a hundred days long,even longer then I started
realizing like okay, this isdefinitely something and it
really pushed me to get adiagnosis, to get labs done and
to like I know you talk aboutthe root cause a lot, but to
really like dig into why mycycles are the way they are.
(14:46):
And I don't know.
I think you're asking me rightnow when, like, my cycles are
back to being really irregular.
So I feel like it just dependson the day.
But I think I really walk thisfine line between acceptance and
action.
So action in that finding outwhy cycles are the way they are
(15:07):
and changing lifestyle stuff,doing what you can to address
those things.
But also I've had a lot ofexperience in my years of
charting where I've done all ofthis stuff and my cycles have
still been really irregular andsomebody in the hormone healing
and fertility space.
It's this like voice in my headconstantly where it's like,
(15:28):
well, there's all these thingsthat you should be doing, like
surely your cycle should beregular by now and if not, then
you're doing something wrong.
And so then I go into thatacceptance like swing back into
the acceptance side, where it'slike trusting in my body and
trusting in that my baseline isnot regular.
(15:49):
And it never has been.
I've had more irregularity thanregularity, no matter what I do.
So and like also being again inthis space where it's I'm
thinking about all the all thetime, looking at people's charts
all the time, like it's justvery present and so having that
acceptance and grace for myselfwhere I'm at and and knowing
(16:10):
that, yeah, like I'm stressedright now I was just telling
Bridget like lots of life thingshappening right now and I know
I'm stressed, I know my cycle islong because I'm stressed and
that's okay Like I don't need tocreate another tension where
I'm starting to like see thatpressure as another form of
stress, like the pressure tohave a perfect cycle.
(16:31):
So I think that's like the longanswer of what my journey has
been like with PCOS.
My PCOS is not great, like mycycles are still really
irregular and my journey, orlike my lesson, has been around
really accepting that.
And it's like being theover-responsible eldest daughter
where, like everything in mylife is like I need to fix this,
(16:53):
not letting my cycle be anotherthing to fix, and really just
like letting myself be a messyhuman.
That isn't perfect, so reallyjust like letting myself be a
messy human that isn't perfect,so.
But charting has, at the sametime, like that's where this
balance is, because charting hasreally given me the tools to
advocate for myself and workwith different providers, and I
(17:15):
do know what's underlying it andthat's things to fertility
awareness and charting and likereally being aware of it.
It and that's thanks tofertility awareness and charting
and like really being aware ofit, but that awareness can
sometimes be like almost toomuch information, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, where you're a little hyper fixated, exactly,
yeah, I think, though I mean sowell said and, I think,
inspiring, hopefully forlisteners out there who are like
, hey, yeah, we don't have tohave it all together all the
time.
Like there are just no matterhow much you know about, right
in my case hormones likecervical mucus, all of the
(17:48):
things like sometimes lifehappens, sometimes we're
stressed and then we say, oh,okay, well, body, I see that
you're like getting these.
You know you're trying to sendme a little message so I can
respond to that in whatever waythat works for my lifestyle, for
some folks and even, admittedly, for myself too a little bit.
(18:09):
I'm not sure about like, or thequestion that comes up in my
brain is when cycles areirregular, is there a more or
let, or is it just requiringmore observation and more
(18:32):
proactivity in those?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
cases.
No, it's not less effective.
It just means you may have lessavailable days to go
unprotected.
So when the follicular phase orthe first half of the cycle is
drawn out.
So if you do have longer cycles, it's typically because it's
just taking you longer toovulate.
So the first half of the cycleis going to be longer and a lot
(18:54):
of symptom thermal methods.
You'll use a calculation rule toopen the fertile window or a
dough ring rule and once youpass that date then you can't go
unprotected until you confirmovulation, and that can be an
undetermined amount of time ifyou have a regular cycle.
So it just means you're relyingon barrier methods or
(19:15):
alternative sex or whateveryou're using in the fertile
window if you're avoiding formore of the time.
But every single I want to sayevery single cycle that I've had
, that's been really weird, likeeven as like months and months
and months long cycle when I doovulate, because I'm charting
reliable, evidence basedovulation signs.
(19:36):
It shows up in my chart everysingle time.
Ovulation is never ambiguous ifyou're charting in the right
way.
No matter how long or shortyour cycles are.
It just means if you areavoiding and you have long
cycles, you may need to waitlonger till you can go
unprotected.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Got it.
And just to make sure that I'mclear, I guess and listeners are
clear too about what you'recharting, that's your cervical
mucus, that's your welltemperature.
I'm curious too if you trackyour temperature every day or
just like after you see a changein cervical mucus.
And then you mentioned LHstrips and I wonder, do you
track cervical positioning?
(20:14):
But I guess, kind of all ofthat thinking, could you walk us
through what, in an averageweek or whatever frame of time,
does it actually look like to bepracticing FAM and how that
fits into your normal life?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
There's two sides to charting with fertility
awareness.
One is gathering theinformation about your body and
the other is interpreting it.
So the gathering of informationdoesn't take very long.
It takes maybe two or lessminutes a day and the
interpretation is upfrontinformation that you need to
learn to understand your chart.
(20:50):
So it's like understanding, forexample, what a temperature
shift is, what a cover line is,what peak day is, how to open
the fertile window, how to closethe fertile window, and the
information that that gives youabout your body and decision
making.
The data collection or chartingthese signs like cervical mucus
, basal body temperature thattakes very little time.
(21:12):
So it's like an upfrontlearning or an upfront
investment in understanding howthese play together.
So we're not just chartingcervical mucus in isolation,
we're looking to see if thecervical mucus pattern is also
reflecting the temperaturepattern and what those two
things are telling us about whenwe're safe to go unprotected.
(21:33):
So everything is workingtogether.
And so cervical mucus, we'recharting with my mindful mucus
method.
We're charting throughout theday, essentially all the time.
So it's sensation that you feelthroughout the day and anything
that you happen to see when yougo to the bathroom, and then
basal body temperature is yourlowest body temperature attained
(21:53):
during rest and you'll want tochart it all cycle.
So you'll want to see a patternthat changes before ovulation
to after ovulation and you canuse a regular oral basal body
thermometer that goes to twodecimal places or you can use a
wearable like TempDrop.
Right now there's no otherwearables I would recommend.
Tempdrop is the only one thatI've seen consistently matches
(22:18):
up with oral temperaturepatterns.
But you'll want to chart.
So in a week you'll be chartingwhen you wake up in the morning
, taking your basal bodytemperature before you get out
of bed and then throughout theday paying attention to any
sensation you happen to notice,as well as anything you happen
to see when you go to thebathroom, and then at the end of
the day, typically you'll putthat in your chart.
(22:40):
So you'll put your most fertilecervical mucus observation in
the chart, you'll upload yourtemp drop temps or you'll record
your oral temps in your chartand then that will give you a
picture, like a little sliver ofinformation, as to your
fertility status that day.
You asked about LH testing andcervical position.
(23:01):
Lh testing will offer some goodinformation.
I recommend it in some cases,but a lot of people struggle to
get positive.
So either, like you easily getpositives with lh tests, or you
are really unsure and confusedwith ovulation and the reason is
it's about catching your surge.
(23:21):
So everybody's LH surge isgoing to be a different length
and the trick is to test duringyour window where LH is surging
and if you miss that window youcan still ovulate, even if you
didn't get a positive or youmissed your positive.
So that's where it's like alittle bit tricky.
Sometimes it takes a little bitof coaching to get it right,
but it's a very clear, objectivesign when you do get a positive
(23:43):
.
I've also had long cycles whereI've had positives and hadn't
ovulated.
That's more, I would say, aPCOS consideration.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
LH strips.
Are those exactly the same asovulation strips or is there
something slightly different?
I don't know if it's liketomato, tomato those.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
There are a bunch of different kinds.
So, the regular threshold.
Lh tests read as positive ornegative and you read them with
your own eyes.
There are also ovulationpredictor kits that interpret
that reading for you.
So they're usually like theclear blue plastic kits and
they're typically more expensive.
(24:17):
They do the exact same thingbut they just give you like a
smiley face.
Some of them also measureestrogen.
And then there's also stufflike the Mira fertility monitor
that measures a bunch ofdifferent hormones, but
essentially it will also giveyou like a reading as to the
level of LH.
And there are also LH teststhat will give you, instead of a
(24:38):
positive or negative, they'llgive you like a number.
So the most basic LH tests thatwill give you instead of a
positive or negative, they'llgive you like a number.
So the most basic LH tests areusually just fine.
They're called threshold LHtests and they're in like little
foil packets.
You can buy them really cheapin like a box of 50.
Yeah, those are usually fine.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, okay, and for somebody who isn't sure what
we're talking about when we sayLH, I'll just decrypt that super
quick, lh being luteinizinghormone, which is one of the
hormones that, just before youovulate, will spike.
So that's why, right, thatwould be a good indicator that,
hey girl, you're about toovulate.
Or, like you were saying,sometimes there will be an LH
(25:19):
spike but no ovulation, whichwould be noted by an increase in
your basal body temperature,and that could be for any number
of reasons.
But whether it's tied to PCOS,or tied to stress, or tied to
whatever other fluke of ourcycle, of our hormones,
sometimes we just don't ovulatein a cycle, and so that's.
(25:40):
I just wanted to add that incase somebody's like what's LH
Go?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
ahead.
I think I cut you off too.
Did you have something else?
There's one more question.
You asked about cervicalposition.
I don't teach cervical position.
It is a less reliable ovulationsign.
Some people do find thatthere's some fluctuation in
their cervix height and softnessthroughout the cycle.
However, it is less reliablethan other ovulation signs, so I
(26:07):
don't typically teach cervicalposition.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Is there a certain amount of time that somebody
would want to practice chartingbefore they, I guess, rely on
their observations to preventpregnancy?
I'm sure that within the firstcycle they're like okay, cool, I
see it, I see the ovulationhappened, I see these signs.
But yeah, what's that normaltime span look like before?
Somebody is like all right, I'mready, we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
It depends.
It depends on how you'relearning.
So if you're working with afertility awareness educator
closely who's coaching youthrough meeting with you every
two weeks or every month, thenyou'll probably feel more
confident to go unprotectedsooner.
If you're self-teaching, thenif you have regular cycles, you
(26:57):
could theoretically gounprotected.
The first cycle that youconfirm ovulation Depends where
in your cycle you start charting.
But if your cycles are, ifyou're just coming off birth
control, if you have PCOS, ifyou're postpartum, a lot of
those scenarios are going tomake it trickier to self-teach
(27:17):
or to DIY and go unprotectedquickly.
A fertility awareness educatorwill get you there faster.
It just depends like where inyour cycle you start charting
and other factors.
But as soon as your firstovulation is confirmed is like
the soonest that you could gounprotected.
Okay, cool.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
So different for everybody, but once you see the
first temperature change, thenyou're in good shape.
One thing I wanted to talk toyou about is fertility awareness
, like compared and contrastedwith cycle awareness.
I'm curious if those things foryou are basically
interchangeable terms or ifthere is any difference there
(27:59):
and like, maybe if that'simportant to the fertility
awareness journey.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, I think they definitely go hand in hand.
I think knowing your ovulationsigns intimately just means that
you're paying attention to yourcycle naturally, and I think
with that comes an awareness ofthe phases of your cycle and how
you feel and how that changesthroughout the cycle.
(28:25):
I think fertility awareness canmake your menstrual cycle
awareness practice more accurate.
So a lot of people who are justcharting their cycle or cycle
awareness are estimating whenthey ovulate and when we think
about the phases of the cycleand how our energy shifts
throughout the cycle, fertilityawareness offers that more
(28:47):
pinpointed window of ovulation,no matter how long or short your
cycle is.
So I think they definitely gohand in hand and I think a lot
of people come to fertilityawareness and then the natural
next step is to really payattention to how they feel
throughout the cycle too.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Do most people who come to you like most of your
clients or gals in your program?
Are they mostly coming to youbecause they want to avoid
pregnancy or because they wantto become pregnant?
I'm just curious what mostpeople are interested in when
they come to you.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Most people are interested in avoiding pregnancy
, or they've just come off birthcontrol or they're looking for
a bridge after coming off birthcontrol.
But I've been doing this for awhile and now I have folks who
learned with me to avoidpregnancy and they're reaching
out and they're like hey, I'mlooking to get pregnant or I use
the same information to getpregnant, so it is a lifelong
(29:44):
thing.
But most people will come to mewhen they're wanting to avoid.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Okay, yeah, definitely In my mind I imagine
in your mind too is a tool likeliterally any phase of life.
This is a fam is a tool to getto know my body, to get to
understand what my body's tryingto tell me and then to, yeah,
accomplish any sort of familyplanning or avoiding goals there
.
Absolutely yeah, what are somelike myths or like just
(30:11):
absolutely insane things thatpeople ask you?
Or maybe something that you seeI don't know some other creator
on social media or whateversaying, but like what's
something that you see I don'tknow some other creator on
social media or whatever saying,but like what's something, if
anything, that you're like oh myGod, I can't believe that
somebody posted about that.
Or just like this is somethingthat is we got to rewrite, we
(30:31):
got to like correct the story onthis.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
This isn't exactly what you're asking, but
something I've been thinking alot about lately is cycle
syncing, especially in longer,irregular cycles, and this very
like prescriptive approach tocycle syncing.
So when you're in, when you'reovulating, like this is the list
of things that you'llexperience and when you're
premenstrual, like this is thelist of all the things that
(30:57):
you'll want to do.
And, as somebody who has liketried and failed to plan my life
around my cycle because I neverknow when I'm going to ovulate,
I really like push back againstthis prescriptive cycle singing
because I'm approaching it moreas like what do I, how do I
feel today and what do I need?
(31:18):
Knowing where I am in my cycle,but also knowing that I could be
follicular, I could be preovulatory for a very long time,
and so I really think thatsocial media has kind of like
created this monster with cyclesyncing and like almost like a
new shame or guilt when youdon't do the things that you're
(31:40):
supposed to do, say in yourpremenstrual, when you don't
rest on your period.
And I think there is anotherway.
There's like a more gentle,real life way, because we can't
always plan around our periodand we can't always plan around
ovulation and I would love to beable to schedule my launches
(32:01):
around my period.
But the amount of times thatI've done that and then I have
gotten my period the week of alaunch, it's like you just you
roll with it and you check inwith what you need every day and
just be more flexible around it.
So I know that's not exactlylike a fam myth, but something
that I've been thinking a lotabout lately.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Now I think that's something that is maybe not
tippy top of mind, but somethingI think about a lot too,
because, from my perspective,when gals are asking about how
they can restore balance intheir hormones and I think
psychosyncing is a really greattool to help you kind of reflect
(32:40):
on what you're feeling but atthe same time it can be overly
prescriptive and it's notnecessarily going to fix
something what is there that wehaven't talked about that you
think is important to touch on?
You wouldn't want somebody tofinish this conversation without
hearing, or do you feel likewe've covered most of the bases?
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I feel like there's so much more that we can talk
about.
I think.
I feel like there's we haven'ttalked about.
We haven't talked a ton aboutcervical mucus, but I do have a
free intro to cervical mucus.
It's a free video course, sopeople want to learn more about
that.
It's called Mucus Made Easy andI feel like, just yeah, I love
(33:25):
what you said to Bridget aroundapps and algorithms being a
starting point.
And then if people arewondering, like what is my app
actually doing to give me thisinformation, that's what I'm
always looking at when I'mtesting, like the ultra human
ring right now and using the appor natural cycles experiments.
It's like how and why is theapp giving me this information?
(33:46):
If you're starting to havethose thoughts and questions,
diving into an in-depthfertility awareness method is
one way of kind of closing thatloop and going a level deeper.
So I have a bunch of resourceson that on my blog and freebies
that go more in depth into likehow you can actually learn the
(34:06):
rules and all of that.
So if people are curious afterlistening to this, there's just
like so much more under thesurface that you can dig into
and get excited about.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Okay, perfect, so we'll put the link to that guide
in the show notes here.
Let's just chit-chat oncervical mucus for a hot sec to
give a sneak peek.
Why might somebody want to orneed to investigate there more?
And I've talked about cervicalmucus on the podcast here before
(34:36):
, so probably maybe a listenerisn't totally new to the
conversation.
But what's the thing that mostpeople get wrong about cervical
mucus?
More is better.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
They think that more is better.
So we see these pictures ofcopious amounts of clear egg,
white, stretchy mucus and Ithink people look at that and
they're like I just came out ofbirth control.
I never see that.
Am I still fertile?
Like, am I ovulating?
And the answer is yeah, likeyou probably are still ovulating
, your signs are just going tobe a lot more subtle and you're
(35:09):
focusing on sensation is goingto really really help you.
So it's the thing that we feelthroughout the day and we don't
necessarily pay attention to orthink of as reliable information
, because we're taught that moreis better and like this subtle
sign is not something that wereally learn how to chart.
So I teach that inside ofmindful mucus method, but really
(35:30):
it's like you're charting allyou're aware all the time and
you're paying attention to themore subtle signs as well as
what you happen to see.
But a lot of people don't see alot of mucus, and if you've had,
like, a leap procedure or ifyou're just coming off birth
control, you might see verylittle.
You might have a lot ofunchanging mucus day after day,
(35:51):
and so it's just about finding away for you to actually know
when you're fertile.
All that stuff is happening.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Okay, and there's nothing bad about having, like,
more cervical mucus.
That's just.
Some people are at some phasesof their life.
It's just that it's notnecessarily an indication of
their fertile window, is that?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
the just in most cases.
No, it's not a bad thing If youhave lots of cervical mucus.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
I think this has been a helpful conversation for
folks to just dip their toes ina little bit when it comes to
FAM and know that they have aresource out there in you to
learn more about it and actuallyput it into practice when
they're ready, regardless ofwhat their life stage is or what
their goals are or what theirperiod is like right now.
(36:37):
So that's really valuable.
How can listeners connect withyou?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
So, yeah, this has been a great chat and thanks for
having me Bridget.
You can find me on Instagram atfertilityawarenessproject, and
then my website isfertilityawarenessprojectca.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
All right, my friend.
That is it for today.
I hope that you loved thisconversation between Nat and I.
Again, you can connect with Naton Instagram at
fertilityawarenessproject.
You can check out her website,fertilityawarenessprojectca.
Both of those and more aregoing to be linked in the show
(37:16):
notes below, so make sure thatyou connect with her.
If you have any questions forme, for Nat, then send them our
way and I will leave you withthat.
Thanks again for listening, forsubscribing, and we'll see you
on the next one.
If you loved today's episodeand got something good out of it
, make sure you subscribe sothat these episodes show up
(37:38):
automatically in your feed, nowork needed on your side.
Let's put it on autopilot.
As always, I need to give youmy reminder that the information
I share with you here is foreducational purposes only, and
it should not be used as areplacement for medical advice
or diagnosis.
Now, if you are, on the otherhand, in the market for some
one-on-one support, then I wouldlove for you to take me up on
(38:01):
my offer for a free strategycall.
You can find these links andmore in the show notes.
All right, we'll see you on thenext one.
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