October 21, 2024 • 29 mins
Discover the groundbreaking world of Magnes, the Swiss innovators reshaping Parkinson's care with their state-of-the-art shoe technology. Join co-founder/CEO Olgac Ergeneman and Business Development Manager Chinouk Van Nijen as they unveil how their sensor-equipped sneaker changes the walking game for Parkinson's patients. Hear about the journey from the clinical setting to your living room, where these shoes act as personal gait coaches, providing real-time feedback to combat symptoms such as freezing and shuffling. The duo shares the shoe's seamless blend of technology and style, ensuring users feel both empowered and discreet in their everyday lives.
Peek behind the curtain at the smart cueing system that uniquely adapts to each wearer's walking pattern, distinct from traditional methods. Uncover how continuous feedback from patients and clinicians drives innovation at Magnes, resulting in enhanced features and new activity modes. With exciting plans on the horizon, including a line designed for children, Magnes is committed to evolving and meeting the diverse needs of its users. Subscribe to stay informed about upcoming trials and events, and see how these ingenious shoes are stepping up to redefine mobility for Parkinson's patients.
More info can be found at magnes.ch
Sign up for their newsletter here: https://www.magnes.ch/contact/
or by emailing info@magnes.ch
- Co-hosts: Judy Yaras & Travis Robinson
- Editor & Audio Engineer: (EP1-100) Spencer Yaras
- Audio Engineering Intern: Ana MacAller
- Social Media Intern: Ana MacAller
www.INDYpodcast.net
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the I'm Not Dead Yet podcast.
I'm your co-host, TravisRobinson.
I was diagnosed withParkinson's disease at age 35 in
(00:22):
2014.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And I'm your other co-host, judy Yarris.
My husband, sandy, hadParkinson's disease for 18 years
and I was his care partner.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Today's episode, we have the privilege of speaking
with the co-founder andmarketing director of the
company, Magnus, here to talkabout their product new shoes
(00:57):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hi everybody.
We should say that they arelocated in Switzerland, in
Zurich, am I correct?
That's correct.
So we're speaking across thepond, so they speak, so they say
I don't know if that's theright thing to say, but in any
case, we're so happy to have you.
Both Travis and I were luckyenough to meet Ulgok and Chinook
(01:22):
and I'm not going to say theirlast names because I will
destroy it so I think it'sbetter if we just are on a first
name basis.
But we met them in Barcelona atthe World Parkinson's Congress
a couple of years ago, and Ithink that it's really wonderful
.
I thought the product soundedso interesting and I want to
(01:46):
have you really talk about whatthe product is and the origin of
it, how it came about and why,because I think this is
something that is, aside fromvery cool, and we've talked
about wearables on this show alittle bit, and this is clearly
a wearable product and aninteresting one.
(02:06):
Okay, so I'll turn it over toyou.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, thanks, judy for the introduction.
This is Olga speaking andChinook.
If you want, you can start withthe product and I can maybe add
a little bit like yeah, well,where it came?
How was the kind of our storystarted?
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yes, let's do that.
So what we've developed is ashoe, but it's not a normal shoe
because what we have done, inthe sole we have embedded all
kinds of sensors, the computerand even the vibration unit, and
what you can do with that isthat we can measure exactly how
somebody is walking, and thiscan give us a lot of information
(02:46):
, and we can also then see atwhich certain moment we have to
give a vibration, and thesevibrations they help patients to
improve their walking.
So what we see, also forParkinson's patients, for
example, is that with thisvibration, which is an external
cue, it can help to avoid, forexample, freezing of gait or the
(03:11):
shuffling of gait, and itreally improves the quality of
life.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
What makes our technology unique is we can
analyze the gait of the personusing it in real time and we
detect the different phases ofyour gate and then give this
simulation with vibrations, thisfeedback at the right moment.
That's kind of, I think, whatmakes this technology work and
what makes it different than Ithink, all other things kind of
(03:38):
available.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Was this originally designed to be used in more of a
clinical setting, so in PDclinics or with physical
therapists what are they calledin Europe?
They call them physios, right,yeah, physiotherapists.
Is that more where you designedit, or did you see it more as a
consumer-based product?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think originally it was more targeted towards
clinics.
So we wanted to kind of use theshoes to collect data to a
little bit like support thisdecision making, collect the
data.
But also, I think, from thevery early days we were
interested in the rehabilitationpart because we wanted to
(04:22):
develop a solution which, let'ssay, makes a change in patients
life.
So this is, I think, reallyimportant.
That's where this real-timefeedback comes.
So we wanted to kind of givethem this feedback on the right
times, to make them, let's say,improve their movements, get the
feedback all the time they arewearing it.
But yeah, of course it startsusually in a rehabilitation
(04:44):
facility and it is a second stepwe want to bring it home.
So, yeah, originally I think wewere more focused on clinics,
but now I think, yeah, actuallywe are happy to see that a lot
of patients use it on a regularbasis at home, outside.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I want to add something here too.
You know, when we think ofmedical shoes, we think of shoes
that look pretty scary, sort ofa little bit like the Munsters,
but these actually look like asneaker like a sneaker that you
wouldn't mind wearing.
So I think there's something tobe said for that.
But you know, it gives someonea feeling of normalcy with the
(05:21):
type of shoe that they mightnormally wear.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think it's really good you pointed that.
So yeah, all our technology iskind of we embedded everything
in the sole, so from outside itreally looks like a normal
sneaker and when you wear italso, you don't really feel any
different.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think that's an important factor.
I'm a very vanity always comesinto play for me, so I think you
know for most people they wantthat.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, and it's also something that we really kept in
mind that we hear a lot frompatients their feedback that
they want something, that ifthey walk on the street other
people don't know they havesomething.
And that's exactly with theshoe.
It looks like a normal sneaker,so you don't see that somebody
is using a special shoe Becauseorthopedic shoes most time you
see it's an orthopedic shoe orshoes.
(06:10):
It looks like a normal sneakerthat you're wearing.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And the shoe is also.
It is also totally hidden,right.
So the vibration, it's only theperson wearing it feels it and
from outside, yeah, no onereally understand that.
You get this feedback.
Yeah, that's also, I think,what we hear a lot, that they
like that.
Yeah, it's totally hidden, uh,for people, uh, being there
allows for a stealth mode.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right.
Does this connect to theirphone also?
Is it something that they seeit on their phone or they can
start it or stop it with thephone, or is that not part of
the technology?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It's part of the technology.
So there are two options youcan use a phone but you don't
have to use the phone.
So when you have a phone youcan connect't have to use the
phone.
So when you have a phone youcan connect to your shoes and
you can change the vibrationmode, or you can turn the shoes
off or on.
But you can also collect data.
So we have also a lot ofpatients that really find it
(07:09):
interesting to see how they arewalking, if they have a
different walking pattern intheir on or off state of the
disease, or look at when theytake the medication.
Is there a difference?
And with the shoe they cancollect all this data and in the
app they can then see ifthere's a change in their
walking pattern.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Wow, that's pretty fantastic.
When you think about it, youknow to be able to get that much
information just from a shoe.
So when people are, if someoneis interested in this now, are
they able to go through Magnusdirectly or New Shoe directly,
or does it need to have aprescription?
I mean, I'm you know, I knowthat we saw many things in
(07:53):
Barcelona and a lot of them havenot made it to the States yet.
So both Travis and I were kindof wondering what's the status
on being able to have them inthe US.
Are they being tested here?
Is there FDA approval?
Will there be insurance?
Probably not.
I don't know.
(08:15):
I'm a realist here, but give ussome background on that, like
what the process has been foryou also.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I think we have a model where we really want
patients to test this or have achance to see the shoes, try it
before they make a decision.
So we are partnering with manyphysical therapy clinics, some
hospitals, neurologic clinics inthe us and I think to to find,
like, which ones are offeringthis.
(08:44):
you can check our website soit's changing and it's a
relatively new product.
So we are adding also newcenters every uh, every week
almost uh.
So that's a little bit likewhat we expect, like if you're
interested, you can then check,find a clinic close to you and
then arrange a session with them.
So we make sure that thepatient is kind of someone is
(09:06):
introducing the shoes, they geta good kind of instructions like
how to operate it and theycheck the different vibration
modes and then, if then it's asolution for them, they can then
get it.
So this is a little bit likethe model.
And in terms of the insurance,I mean right now it's
unfortunately not covered, butwe are actually working on it.
So on the long term, we see thebenefit and I think, as we have
(09:28):
more and more clinical studies,more evidence, we also expect
that at some point it will becovered by the insurance.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Are they doing clinical studies in the US?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, we have actually many clinical studies
ongoing right now in Europe, inAustralia, in UK and also in the
US recently.
So we work with prestigiousclinics there In California.
Actually, we have severalpartners.
We work with UC San Diego, UCLA, Stanford University and also
we have several places and, yeah, Harvard is one of them.
(10:00):
So, yeah, many, many studiesare going on.
I mean there are also some ofthem are just starting, but,
yeah, there will be many sitesfor clinical studies in the US.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And if people are looking to get into a clinical
study, would they go throughMagnus or contact UCLA, let's
say, or Stanford?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
what would be the best way to do that?
I mean, we have to check withthem.
So some of them are more in theearly stages so we haven't
started kind of hiring thepatients.
But yeah, I think that theeasiest would be to maybe
subscribe to our newsletter,because we easiest would be to
maybe subscribe to ournewsletter because we, yeah just
from them about these things.
So, yeah, the exact recruitment, I think it depends on the
which study and if you need morepeople.
(10:46):
Some are bigger, some aresmaller studies.
But yeah, why don't they kindof, if anyone is interested,
just subscribe to our newsletterso you make sure that gets all
the information about these yeah, and also the for the
newsletter.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Like we announce when we have test events as well.
So like next week, for example,we have a test event in new
york and boston.
Our patients can sign up.
They book a slot to test outthe shoes because we're now we
started really in the west coastof the us, but now we're so
exploring the east Coast and alittle bit more the inside of
(11:19):
the US.
So there we always announcewhen we're doing a trip and
patients can also see there allthe tryout events.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
In November also, we'll have an event in Florida
and one in San Francisco, soyeah, Well, that's great.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I actually know some people from our groups that
could possibly go in from SanFrancisco.
We have several people in theBay Area that join us.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's fantastic shoes, but we like this
interaction and, yeah, usuallyalso someone from our team in
europe joins these events.
Yeah, I'll be there in november.
Right now in the east coast,yeah, our colleague is there,
(12:05):
and so this is really importantfor us that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
um, and just so you know, olga, because I know you,
like you are a little bit of afoodie, as I am there's great
restaurants in San Francisco, soyou will enjoy.
If you haven't been there, Iknow you're going to enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I know who to contact before I trip.
And yeah, you also stop by inLA, so yeah, we can maybe go out
together for a nice dinner.
But yeah, I'm working on myschedule for the next trip.
So yeah, I'll let you know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Wonderful.
So I am curious and we alwayslike to ask have there been any
drawbacks?
Anyone that has said they justthey don't like it.
I'm trying to remember now whenyou were here and we did some
testing last year.
You were kind enough andwonderful to be one of our
sponsors with PCLA for the LAMarathon and I'm curious if
(13:05):
someone has neuropathy in theirfeet, how does that work?
Is it something that can stillwork, if it's not too bad, or
could you address that a littlebit?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, so what we see with neuropathy there's a chance
that it doesn't work.
So we have seen with patientswhere they didn't felt the
fibrillation at all and we alsosaw then there was not an effect
on the walking pattern.
But we also have seen now a fewpatients that didn't felt the
fibrillation but actually whenthey start walking with the
(13:38):
vibration we saw an improvementon their walking pattern.
So I mean, it's a reallycomplex disease but it looks
like that even if you don't feelthe vibration there is still a
chance that the shoe can help toimprove the walking as well.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's really interesting this is something we
want to also explore and thereis, I think, a lot of literature
on subsensory stimulation.
So it is actually yeah, even ifyou don't feel it, the signal
might be still going to theright place, so it can make a
change for you.
But again, I think the nicething about our solution is it's
(14:15):
really easy to try and seeyourself.
So we encourage people to do itand if we know that they have
neuropathy, we still encouragethem to test it.
It might still make a changefor them.
But yeah, there are also peoplethey don't feel it and they
cannot respond.
So that's also.
We observe this too.
So there's a chance that itmight not also work for those
(14:37):
people with neuropathy.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Okay, Is there anyone else that might have a
difficulty with it, or not somuch, just really the neuropathy
that would be the impact.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I mean, I think cognitive abilities may be
something.
If they have serious problems,then they don't maybe understand
what to respond to or gettingthe signals.
It might be like a little bitof an issue.
So if you do maybe any, let'ssay, a correlation, that might
be again like a group.
If they have a seriouscognitive decline.
(15:10):
It might not work.
But again, like I think it'seasy to test so they can.
We don't need to exclude themso they can give a try.
But that has been a little bitour experience.
But this is a little bit alsolike what we want to learn from
the studies.
So that's why we have manysites right now we're conducting
all these clinical like what wewant to learn from the studies.
So that's why we have manysites right now.
We are conducting all theseclinical studies.
So we want to understandactually like both the mechanism
and also who responds to thiskind of feedback and what can we
(15:34):
do to improve it.
We are also developing a lot ofnew modes.
This is actually like a lot ofnew things coming.
So we are a technology companyso that there will be a lot of
new functions becoming availablein the next months, next years.
So that's also I think quiteinteresting to see get this
feedback and develop the nextthings.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Right, can you explain a little bit about how
the feedback works, how it helpsto change a person, or just by
(16:15):
vibrating?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yes, we can.
So what we see with Parkinson's, like there's a dopamine
deficit in the brain andnormally that helps to have the
automatic walking effect.
Parkinson's there's a dopaminedeficit in the brain and
normally that helps to have theautomatic walking effect, and
with Parkinson's patients itgoes wrong in the brain there.
So with the shoes they get anexternal cue and this helps them
(16:41):
to change the walking from anautomation to more goal-driven
walking.
So they use the cues to keepwalking.
Where for us, or like for me asa healthy person, it's all
automated, I can walk and Idon't have to think about it.
But this process goes wrongwith some Parkinson's patients
(17:06):
and then with the shoes and thevibration they get every step a
cue and it helps them to keepwalking and not to freeze, for
example and I think the nicething about our solution is also
we don't give them just aperiodic signal or something.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We are really analyzing their movements and
giving this feedback at theright moment so it doesn't
become also something routine,otherwise I think the brain can
still start filtering it.
But you know, shoes don'tvibrate if you stop.
If you start moving again, thenit just vibrates at the right
moment.
So it's a little bit like asmart queuing, we can say,
(17:41):
because many queuing devices arejust periodic signals right now
.
But in our case it's a bitdifferent and it's really the
shoes.
I think you can imagine likethat the shoes adapt you.
It's not like you have to adapttheir rhythm or something as
you walk.
It adapts you and it gives youthe feedback at the right moment
and, yeah, you can make thetrick for some people.
But I should also say freezingis quite complex and I think
(18:05):
it's really changing person toperson and it's also, I think,
an active research area.
A lot of, I think, researchersare now also trying to
understand better what causes itand what is the different types
of freezing, I mean how it islinked to falling, all these
things.
I think there's a lot of, Ithink, research going on on
these topics.
So it's a little bit also.
(18:25):
I think there's a lot ofresearch going on on these
topics.
It's a little bit also, I think, as time passes, as we have
more studies, we understand more, but it's not easy to explain
everything.
This is a little bit like howwe are seeing it today.
Another, I think, quiteinteresting problem to look at
but not easy to, I think,explain every detail here.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
It's not really like a metronome.
So you know, you always hearpeople say, when they start to
freeze, that if they either singa song or they get a light cue
or something that will help themget out of it, but it doesn't
seem to work on that sameprinciple.
Then it seems to understandwhat the body is doing a little
more Correct.
(19:04):
Is that right?
That's right.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Because the shoe in real time measures how you're
walking.
So the moment you walk fasterthe shoe will detect it and then
you'll keep giving thisvibration at the right moment,
even if you walk faster or youstart to walk slower, where with
a metronome you really have towalk on that rhythm of the
metronome and if you stopwalking the beep just keeps
(19:31):
going With the shoe.
It really kind of personalizesto you.
So every step it detects whatyou're doing.
It keeps vibrating at thatspecific moment because it's
measuring the whole time how youare walking.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
It's interesting really fascinating to me.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
In parentheses we can still give the metronome, so
that's also a mode you can use.
Some people also like to getthis rhythm.
They want to go at a certainrhythm and go over.
Maybe I think with manyParkinson's patients that's not
usually what they like to, whatthey like to use.
But yeah, if you're interestedin having a rhythm, we can do
that.
(20:53):
So it is so individualized,which is really fantastic, that
you've been able to create thatand make it better.
I mean to me, the technology.
After coming off this morningwith having some technical
difficulties, I'm alwaysfascinated by what can be done
in the optimal sense of workingwith technologies.
So can you guys describe whatyour new shoes kids product is?
Yeah, so someone checked ourwebsite and did his homework.
It looks like this is a, let'ssay, a new product that we will
be actually launching, I thinkthink next year or the year
after.
So right now it's underdevelopment.
We have some research going onand some studies kind of getting
(21:14):
started, but it's not yetavailable.
I mean, for children also,there are many, let's say,
movement-related problems.
I think cerebral palsy is oneactually issue where they do
regular kind of gait analysis.
So we see many use cases forour solution for children.
I think cerebral palsy is one,but there are also, I think,
(21:35):
other let's say gait disordersin children or some, let's say,
walking problems.
I mean one example is like toewalkers Some children walk on
their toes, so we are alsodeveloping a mode for them that
they get the sweet back tocorrect it and the nice thing or
the initial sweet actually,interaction we got with the kids
is they love vibration.
(21:56):
We had kids that we tested andthey didn't.
We couldn't get the shoes back.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh, that's great Because I think you know the
walking on toes, from what Iunderstand, is a sensory issue
for children that have sensoryissues and so that would make
sense that that could really bean important tool for them.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
That's wonderful vibration when they do the right
movement, for example.
It's a little bit like thedirection we have there.
But, yeah, this is again like.
This will become available, uh,in the next year.
So it's not yet on the market,but we see that also.
It's like a it's an importantfield and we yeah, we will be
also active in the children,let's say, version that's
(22:40):
exciting.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So as of right now, you guys have the one broader
new shoe X, correct?
It's just the one shoe that ispresently available.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes, that's correct, it's a black shoe.
It doesn't come in colors,correct?
You haven't?
It's dark blue, oh, dark blue,okay.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yes, it's not only for Parkinson's patients.
We see also other neurologicalpatients that have benefits from
the shoe where we have strokepatients, MS patients, but it's
yeah, at the moment we only havestroke patients, MS patients,
but it's yeah, at the moment weonly have one collar, one module
that's on the market.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And from a size standpoint, do they come in
whole sizes, half sizes or is itstrictly like a full size?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
It's European full sizes.
They go from 37 to 48.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Okay, and out of my head, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
No, I think that's that's.
That's quite right.
Okay, you can check from ourwebsite, I think, which sizes
are available yeah, on thewebsite.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
If you go to us shop and there it shows all the us
sizes.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Oh, okay, great.
Well, this is amazing.
Thank you.
It's great to see you guys andalways a pleasure to talk about
it, and I think it's a greatproduct.
I mean, I love the idea behindit, because anything that can
make someone feel more what Iwould call normal that they
(24:22):
don't look like they're you knowyou can't walk around wearing
big VR glasses you knowsomething that can help them,
but it's not using a walker.
For a lot of people, there's astigma with using walkers.
I think it's just that devicesare important and people should
use them when they need them,but I know there is a lot of
(24:45):
blowback, especially for youngonset patients.
They don't want to be using awalker and this may be a great
opportunity for someone that ishaving gait issues that's a YOPD
that certainly may find this tobe something that could really
help them.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Right, and the fact that you can fly in stealth mode
is really attractive.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I mean, I think this is also like what really
motivates our team and whatkeeps us working hard.
You know, sometimes it's reallylittle things in life.
I mean, we have patients whowere not able to enter their
kitchen, get a coffee and go out.
With that.
It's very difficult for them.
It's a challenge to just carrythat outside the I mean pass
through the doorway and go totheir living room.
(25:37):
And when we see that, you knowthey can do it again with the
help of the shoes.
You know that that's kind ofyeah, that just keeps us kind of
, and this is such a bigmotivation for all our team.
So that's important and I thinkthe quality of life is really
important and I think a lot ofpatients have issues with that
(25:59):
and I think if we can change itin a positive way a little bit,
that's a big goal for everyone.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It's so important I mean, that is the key is to be
able to live your life and liveit well and be able to do the
things that you love to do inthe best way possible and safe
way possible.
I think that's the other thingis it's a safety factor too.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Now, are there any limitations to the shoes, Like
are they waterproof?
Can you wear them in the rainor no?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
You can wear them in the rain.
I mean, I would not walk anhour in pouring rain with them
because there's stillelectronics in the shoes.
I would also not put them inthe washing machine.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
You shouldn't put them in the washing machine.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
That's not good.
Don't dry them in the dryer,but if it's a little bit
drizzling outside you can justwear them and now we're all
jumping.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Let's put it this way Now we're all jumping with the
Grand Chill.
All right, Well, that's prettycool.
I think it's great.
Thank you so much.
It's been amazing to hear moreabout it and to see how you've
grown and you're really breakinginto the US now, which I think
is wonderful.
You've made a lot of progressin the last this year.
(27:25):
It's really this year, in 2024.
You've made a lot of progressin the last this year.
It's really this year, in 2024.
You've made progress here.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
We're still making always progress and we listen
also a lot to like patients, sowe really value their feedback
and also from like cliniciansand based on their feedback, we
add extra vibration modes oractivity types.
So also like, if patients haverequests, just send them to us.
(27:50):
We really listen and we work onwhat they need, because that
helps us as well, right, that'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I'm so grateful to your genius in creating this
product and making it happen forpeople with PD.
We're really excited about it.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I mean thanks for giving us this opportunity to
talk to you, I think, in thispodcast and I think for all the
listeners it's, I think, greatto be here and talk about our
solution.
Yeah, they can reach out to us.
I think we will probablyprovide some information.
So, yeah, happy to.
Also, if anyone is interestedand if they are interested in
(28:35):
these trial sessions or eventsin the US or other parts of the
world we are active in Europeand US right now so just they
can subscribe to our newsletterso they can get all the
information.
And for finding all thesepartners, clinics, they can
check our website or, yeah, justthey can contact us by email or
other means.
(28:56):
So, yeah, that's, we're happyto kind of request.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Thank you, and just so you know, the company is
Magnus M-A-G-N-E-S, because Ithink people in the US might
want to spell it with an I-S.
That way they will find it.
It will be in the show notes,but just in case no one doesn't
want to look in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That's a wrap.
Welcome to the I'm Not Dead Yet podcast.
I'm your co-host, TravisRobinson.
I was diagnosed withParkinson's disease at age 35 in
(00:22):
2014.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And I'm your other co-host, judy Yarris.
My husband, sandy, hadParkinson's disease for 18 years
and I was his care partner.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Today's episode, we have the privilege of speaking
with the co-founder andmarketing director of the
company, Magnus, here to talkabout their product new shoes
(00:57):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hi everybody.
We should say that they arelocated in Switzerland, in
Zurich, am I correct?
That's correct.
So we're speaking across thepond, so they speak, so they say
I don't know if that's theright thing to say, but in any
case, we're so happy to have you.
Both Travis and I were luckyenough to meet Ulgok and Chinook
(01:22):
and I'm not going to say theirlast names because I will
destroy it so I think it'sbetter if we just are on a first
name basis.
But we met them in Barcelona atthe World Parkinson's Congress
a couple of years ago, and Ithink that it's really wonderful
.
I thought the product soundedso interesting and I want to
(01:46):
have you really talk about whatthe product is and the origin of
it, how it came about and why,because I think this is
something that is, aside fromvery cool, and we've talked
about wearables on this show alittle bit, and this is clearly
a wearable product and aninteresting one.
(02:06):
Okay, so I'll turn it over toyou.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, thanks, judy for the introduction.
This is Olga speaking andChinook.
If you want, you can start withthe product and I can maybe add
a little bit like yeah, well,where it came?
How was the kind of our storystarted?
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yes, let's do that.
So what we've developed is ashoe, but it's not a normal shoe
because what we have done, inthe sole we have embedded all
kinds of sensors, the computerand even the vibration unit, and
what you can do with that isthat we can measure exactly how
somebody is walking, and thiscan give us a lot of information
(02:46):
, and we can also then see atwhich certain moment we have to
give a vibration, and thesevibrations they help patients to
improve their walking.
So what we see, also forParkinson's patients, for
example, is that with thisvibration, which is an external
cue, it can help to avoid, forexample, freezing of gait or the
(03:11):
shuffling of gait, and itreally improves the quality of
life.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
What makes our technology unique is we can
analyze the gait of the personusing it in real time and we
detect the different phases ofyour gate and then give this
simulation with vibrations, thisfeedback at the right moment.
That's kind of, I think, whatmakes this technology work and
what makes it different than Ithink, all other things kind of
(03:38):
available.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Was this originally designed to be used in more of a
clinical setting, so in PDclinics or with physical
therapists what are they calledin Europe?
They call them physios, right,yeah, physiotherapists.
Is that more where you designedit, or did you see it more as a
consumer-based product?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think originally it was more targeted towards
clinics.
So we wanted to kind of use theshoes to collect data to a
little bit like support thisdecision making, collect the
data.
But also, I think, from thevery early days we were
interested in the rehabilitationpart because we wanted to
(04:22):
develop a solution which, let'ssay, makes a change in patients
life.
So this is, I think, reallyimportant.
That's where this real-timefeedback comes.
So we wanted to kind of givethem this feedback on the right
times, to make them, let's say,improve their movements, get the
feedback all the time they arewearing it.
But yeah, of course it startsusually in a rehabilitation
(04:44):
facility and it is a second stepwe want to bring it home.
So, yeah, originally I think wewere more focused on clinics,
but now I think, yeah, actuallywe are happy to see that a lot
of patients use it on a regularbasis at home, outside.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I want to add something here too.
You know, when we think ofmedical shoes, we think of shoes
that look pretty scary, sort ofa little bit like the Munsters,
but these actually look like asneaker like a sneaker that you
wouldn't mind wearing.
So I think there's something tobe said for that.
But you know, it gives someonea feeling of normalcy with the
(05:21):
type of shoe that they mightnormally wear.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think it's really good you pointed that.
So yeah, all our technology iskind of we embedded everything
in the sole, so from outside itreally looks like a normal
sneaker and when you wear italso, you don't really feel any
different.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I think that's an important factor.
I'm a very vanity always comesinto play for me, so I think you
know for most people they wantthat.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, and it's also something that we really kept in
mind that we hear a lot frompatients their feedback that
they want something, that ifthey walk on the street other
people don't know they havesomething.
And that's exactly with theshoe.
It looks like a normal sneaker,so you don't see that somebody
is using a special shoe Becauseorthopedic shoes most time you
see it's an orthopedic shoe orshoes.
(06:10):
It looks like a normal sneakerthat you're wearing.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And the shoe is also.
It is also totally hidden,right.
So the vibration, it's only theperson wearing it feels it and
from outside, yeah, no onereally understand that.
You get this feedback.
Yeah, that's also, I think,what we hear a lot, that they
like that.
Yeah, it's totally hidden, uh,for people, uh, being there
allows for a stealth mode.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Right.
Does this connect to theirphone also?
Is it something that they seeit on their phone or they can
start it or stop it with thephone, or is that not part of
the technology?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It's part of the technology.
So there are two options youcan use a phone but you don't
have to use the phone.
So when you have a phone youcan connect't have to use the
phone.
So when you have a phone youcan connect to your shoes and
you can change the vibrationmode, or you can turn the shoes
off or on.
But you can also collect data.
So we have also a lot ofpatients that really find it
(07:09):
interesting to see how they arewalking, if they have a
different walking pattern intheir on or off state of the
disease, or look at when theytake the medication.
Is there a difference?
And with the shoe they cancollect all this data and in the
app they can then see ifthere's a change in their
walking pattern.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Wow, that's pretty fantastic.
When you think about it, youknow to be able to get that much
information just from a shoe.
So when people are, if someoneis interested in this now, are
they able to go through Magnusdirectly or New Shoe directly,
or does it need to have aprescription?
I mean, I'm you know, I knowthat we saw many things in
(07:53):
Barcelona and a lot of them havenot made it to the States yet.
So both Travis and I were kindof wondering what's the status
on being able to have them inthe US.
Are they being tested here?
Is there FDA approval?
Will there be insurance?
Probably not.
I don't know.
(08:15):
I'm a realist here, but give ussome background on that, like
what the process has been foryou also.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I think we have a model where we really want
patients to test this or have achance to see the shoes, try it
before they make a decision.
So we are partnering with manyphysical therapy clinics, some
hospitals, neurologic clinics inthe us and I think to to find,
like, which ones are offeringthis.
(08:44):
you can check our website soit's changing and it's a
relatively new product.
So we are adding also newcenters every uh, every week
almost uh.
So that's a little bit likewhat we expect, like if you're
interested, you can then check,find a clinic close to you and
then arrange a session with them.
So we make sure that thepatient is kind of someone is
(09:06):
introducing the shoes, they geta good kind of instructions like
how to operate it and theycheck the different vibration
modes and then, if then it's asolution for them, they can then
get it.
So this is a little bit likethe model.
And in terms of the insurance,I mean right now it's
unfortunately not covered, butwe are actually working on it.
So on the long term, we see thebenefit and I think, as we have
(09:28):
more and more clinical studies,more evidence, we also expect
that at some point it will becovered by the insurance.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Are they doing clinical studies in the US?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, we have actually many clinical studies
ongoing right now in Europe, inAustralia, in UK and also in the
US recently.
So we work with prestigiousclinics there In California.
Actually, we have severalpartners.
We work with UC San Diego, UCLA, Stanford University and also
we have several places and, yeah, Harvard is one of them.
(10:00):
So, yeah, many, many studiesare going on.
I mean there are also some ofthem are just starting, but,
yeah, there will be many sitesfor clinical studies in the US.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And if people are looking to get into a clinical
study, would they go throughMagnus or contact UCLA, let's
say, or Stanford?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
what would be the best way to do that?
I mean, we have to check withthem.
So some of them are more in theearly stages so we haven't
started kind of hiring thepatients.
But yeah, I think that theeasiest would be to maybe
subscribe to our newsletter,because we easiest would be to
maybe subscribe to ournewsletter because we, yeah just
from them about these things.
So, yeah, the exact recruitment, I think it depends on the
which study and if you need morepeople.
(10:46):
Some are bigger, some aresmaller studies.
But yeah, why don't they kindof, if anyone is interested,
just subscribe to our newsletterso you make sure that gets all
the information about these yeah, and also the for the
newsletter.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Like we announce when we have test events as well.
So like next week, for example,we have a test event in new
york and boston.
Our patients can sign up.
They book a slot to test outthe shoes because we're now we
started really in the west coastof the us, but now we're so
exploring the east Coast and alittle bit more the inside of
(11:19):
the US.
So there we always announcewhen we're doing a trip and
patients can also see there allthe tryout events.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
In November also, we'll have an event in Florida
and one in San Francisco, soyeah, Well, that's great.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I actually know some people from our groups that
could possibly go in from SanFrancisco.
We have several people in theBay Area that join us.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
That's fantastic shoes, but we like this
interaction and, yeah, usuallyalso someone from our team in
europe joins these events.
Yeah, I'll be there in november.
Right now in the east coast,yeah, our colleague is there,
(12:05):
and so this is really importantfor us that's great.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
um, and just so you know, olga, because I know you,
like you are a little bit of afoodie, as I am there's great
restaurants in San Francisco, soyou will enjoy.
If you haven't been there, Iknow you're going to enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I know who to contact before I trip.
And yeah, you also stop by inLA, so yeah, we can maybe go out
together for a nice dinner.
But yeah, I'm working on myschedule for the next trip.
So yeah, I'll let you know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Wonderful.
So I am curious and we alwayslike to ask have there been any
drawbacks?
Anyone that has said they justthey don't like it.
I'm trying to remember now whenyou were here and we did some
testing last year.
You were kind enough andwonderful to be one of our
sponsors with PCLA for the LAMarathon and I'm curious if
(13:05):
someone has neuropathy in theirfeet, how does that work?
Is it something that can stillwork, if it's not too bad, or
could you address that a littlebit?
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, so what we see with neuropathy there's a chance
that it doesn't work.
So we have seen with patientswhere they didn't felt the
fibrillation at all and we alsosaw then there was not an effect
on the walking pattern.
But we also have seen now a fewpatients that didn't felt the
fibrillation but actually whenthey start walking with the
(13:38):
vibration we saw an improvementon their walking pattern.
So I mean, it's a reallycomplex disease but it looks
like that even if you don't feelthe vibration there is still a
chance that the shoe can help toimprove the walking as well.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's really interesting this is something we
want to also explore and thereis, I think, a lot of literature
on subsensory stimulation.
So it is actually yeah, even ifyou don't feel it, the signal
might be still going to theright place, so it can make a
change for you.
But again, I think the nicething about our solution is it's
(14:15):
really easy to try and seeyourself.
So we encourage people to do itand if we know that they have
neuropathy, we still encouragethem to test it.
It might still make a changefor them.
But yeah, there are also peoplethey don't feel it and they
cannot respond.
So that's also.
We observe this too.
So there's a chance that itmight not also work for those
(14:37):
people with neuropathy.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Okay, Is there anyone else that might have a
difficulty with it, or not somuch, just really the neuropathy
that would be the impact.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I mean, I think cognitive abilities may be
something.
If they have serious problems,then they don't maybe understand
what to respond to or gettingthe signals.
It might be like a little bitof an issue.
So if you do maybe any, let'ssay, a correlation, that might
be again like a group.
If they have a seriouscognitive decline.
(15:10):
It might not work.
But again, like I think it'seasy to test so they can.
We don't need to exclude themso they can give a try.
But that has been a little bitour experience.
But this is a little bit alsolike what we want to learn from
the studies.
So that's why we have manysites right now we're conducting
all these clinical like what wewant to learn from the studies.
So that's why we have manysites right now.
We are conducting all theseclinical studies.
So we want to understandactually like both the mechanism
and also who responds to thiskind of feedback and what can we
(15:34):
do to improve it.
We are also developing a lot ofnew modes.
This is actually like a lot ofnew things coming.
So we are a technology companyso that there will be a lot of
new functions becoming availablein the next months, next years.
So that's also I think quiteinteresting to see get this
feedback and develop the nextthings.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Right, can you explain a little bit about how
the feedback works, how it helpsto change a person, or just by
(16:15):
vibrating?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yes, we can.
So what we see with Parkinson's, like there's a dopamine
deficit in the brain andnormally that helps to have the
automatic walking effect.
Parkinson's there's a dopaminedeficit in the brain and
normally that helps to have theautomatic walking effect, and
with Parkinson's patients itgoes wrong in the brain there.
So with the shoes they get anexternal cue and this helps them
(16:41):
to change the walking from anautomation to more goal-driven
walking.
So they use the cues to keepwalking.
Where for us, or like for me asa healthy person, it's all
automated, I can walk and Idon't have to think about it.
But this process goes wrongwith some Parkinson's patients
(17:06):
and then with the shoes and thevibration they get every step a
cue and it helps them to keepwalking and not to freeze, for
example and I think the nicething about our solution is also
we don't give them just aperiodic signal or something.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We are really analyzing their movements and
giving this feedback at theright moment so it doesn't
become also something routine,otherwise I think the brain can
still start filtering it.
But you know, shoes don'tvibrate if you stop.
If you start moving again, thenit just vibrates at the right
moment.
So it's a little bit like asmart queuing, we can say,
(17:41):
because many queuing devices arejust periodic signals right now
.
But in our case it's a bitdifferent and it's really the
shoes.
I think you can imagine likethat the shoes adapt you.
It's not like you have to adapttheir rhythm or something as
you walk.
It adapts you and it gives youthe feedback at the right moment
and, yeah, you can make thetrick for some people.
But I should also say freezingis quite complex and I think
(18:05):
it's really changing person toperson and it's also, I think,
an active research area.
A lot of, I think, researchersare now also trying to
understand better what causes itand what is the different types
of freezing, I mean how it islinked to falling, all these
things.
I think there's a lot of, Ithink, research going on on
these topics.
So it's a little bit also.
(18:25):
I think there's a lot ofresearch going on on these
topics.
It's a little bit also, I think, as time passes, as we have
more studies, we understand more, but it's not easy to explain
everything.
This is a little bit like howwe are seeing it today.
Another, I think, quiteinteresting problem to look at
but not easy to, I think,explain every detail here.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
It's not really like a metronome.
So you know, you always hearpeople say, when they start to
freeze, that if they either singa song or they get a light cue
or something that will help themget out of it, but it doesn't
seem to work on that sameprinciple.
Then it seems to understandwhat the body is doing a little
more Correct.
(19:04):
Is that right?
That's right.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Because the shoe in real time measures how you're
walking.
So the moment you walk fasterthe shoe will detect it and then
you'll keep giving thisvibration at the right moment,
even if you walk faster or youstart to walk slower, where with
a metronome you really have towalk on that rhythm of the
metronome and if you stopwalking the beep just keeps
(19:31):
going With the shoe.
It really kind of personalizesto you.
So every step it detects whatyou're doing.
It keeps vibrating at thatspecific moment because it's
measuring the whole time how youare walking.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
It's interesting really fascinating to me.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
In parentheses we can still give the metronome, so
that's also a mode you can use.
Some people also like to getthis rhythm.
They want to go at a certainrhythm and go over.
Maybe I think with manyParkinson's patients that's not
usually what they like to, whatthey like to use.
But yeah, if you're interestedin having a rhythm, we can do
that.
(20:53):
So it is so individualized,which is really fantastic, that
you've been able to create thatand make it better.
I mean to me, the technology.
After coming off this morningwith having some technical
difficulties, I'm alwaysfascinated by what can be done
in the optimal sense of workingwith technologies.
So can you guys describe whatyour new shoes kids product is?
Yeah, so someone checked ourwebsite and did his homework.
It looks like this is a, let'ssay, a new product that we will
be actually launching, I thinkthink next year or the year
after.
So right now it's underdevelopment.
We have some research going onand some studies kind of getting
(21:14):
started, but it's not yetavailable.
I mean, for children also,there are many, let's say,
movement-related problems.
I think cerebral palsy is oneactually issue where they do
regular kind of gait analysis.
So we see many use cases forour solution for children.
I think cerebral palsy is one,but there are also, I think,
(21:35):
other let's say gait disordersin children or some, let's say,
walking problems.
I mean one example is like toewalkers Some children walk on
their toes, so we are alsodeveloping a mode for them that
they get the sweet back tocorrect it and the nice thing or
the initial sweet actually,interaction we got with the kids
is they love vibration.
(21:56):
We had kids that we tested andthey didn't.
We couldn't get the shoes back.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Oh, that's great Because I think you know the
walking on toes, from what Iunderstand, is a sensory issue
for children that have sensoryissues and so that would make
sense that that could really bean important tool for them.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
That's wonderful vibration when they do the right
movement, for example.
It's a little bit like thedirection we have there.
But, yeah, this is again like.
This will become available, uh,in the next year.
So it's not yet on the market,but we see that also.
It's like a it's an importantfield and we yeah, we will be
also active in the children,let's say, version that's
(22:40):
exciting.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
So as of right now, you guys have the one broader
new shoe X, correct?
It's just the one shoe that ispresently available.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes, that's correct, it's a black shoe.
It doesn't come in colors,correct?
You haven't?
It's dark blue, oh, dark blue,okay.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yes, it's not only for Parkinson's patients.
We see also other neurologicalpatients that have benefits from
the shoe where we have strokepatients, MS patients, but it's
yeah, at the moment we only havestroke patients, MS patients,
but it's yeah, at the moment weonly have one collar, one module
that's on the market.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And from a size standpoint, do they come in
whole sizes, half sizes or is itstrictly like a full size?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
It's European full sizes.
They go from 37 to 48.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Okay, and out of my head, I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
No, I think that's that's.
That's quite right.
Okay, you can check from ourwebsite, I think, which sizes
are available yeah, on thewebsite.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
If you go to us shop and there it shows all the us
sizes.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Oh, okay, great.
Well, this is amazing.
Thank you.
It's great to see you guys andalways a pleasure to talk about
it, and I think it's a greatproduct.
I mean, I love the idea behindit, because anything that can
make someone feel more what Iwould call normal that they
(24:22):
don't look like they're you knowyou can't walk around wearing
big VR glasses you knowsomething that can help them,
but it's not using a walker.
For a lot of people, there's astigma with using walkers.
I think it's just that devicesare important and people should
use them when they need them,but I know there is a lot of
(24:45):
blowback, especially for youngonset patients.
They don't want to be using awalker and this may be a great
opportunity for someone that ishaving gait issues that's a YOPD
that certainly may find this tobe something that could really
help them.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Right, and the fact that you can fly in stealth mode
is really attractive.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I mean, I think this is also like what really
motivates our team and whatkeeps us working hard.
You know, sometimes it's reallylittle things in life.
I mean, we have patients whowere not able to enter their
kitchen, get a coffee and go out.
With that.
It's very difficult for them.
It's a challenge to just carrythat outside the I mean pass
through the doorway and go totheir living room.
(25:37):
And when we see that, you knowthey can do it again with the
help of the shoes.
You know that that's kind ofyeah, that just keeps us kind of
, and this is such a bigmotivation for all our team.
So that's important and I thinkthe quality of life is really
important and I think a lot ofpatients have issues with that
(25:59):
and I think if we can change itin a positive way a little bit,
that's a big goal for everyone.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
It's so important I mean, that is the key is to be
able to live your life and liveit well and be able to do the
things that you love to do inthe best way possible and safe
way possible.
I think that's the other thingis it's a safety factor too.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Now, are there any limitations to the shoes, Like
are they waterproof?
Can you wear them in the rainor no?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
You can wear them in the rain.
I mean, I would not walk anhour in pouring rain with them
because there's stillelectronics in the shoes.
I would also not put them inthe washing machine.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
You shouldn't put them in the washing machine.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
That's not good.
Don't dry them in the dryer,but if it's a little bit
drizzling outside you can justwear them and now we're all
jumping.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Let's put it this way Now we're all jumping with the
Grand Chill.
All right, Well, that's prettycool.
I think it's great.
Thank you so much.
It's been amazing to hear moreabout it and to see how you've
grown and you're really breakinginto the US now, which I think
is wonderful.
You've made a lot of progressin the last this year.
(27:25):
It's really this year, in 2024.
You've made a lot of progressin the last this year.
It's really this year, in 2024.
You've made progress here.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
We're still making always progress and we listen
also a lot to like patients, sowe really value their feedback
and also from like cliniciansand based on their feedback, we
add extra vibration modes oractivity types.
So also like, if patients haverequests, just send them to us.
(27:50):
We really listen and we work onwhat they need, because that
helps us as well, right, that'sfantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
I'm so grateful to your genius in creating this
product and making it happen forpeople with PD.
We're really excited about it.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
I mean thanks for giving us this opportunity to
talk to you, I think, in thispodcast and I think for all the
listeners it's, I think, greatto be here and talk about our
solution.
Yeah, they can reach out to us.
I think we will probablyprovide some information.
So, yeah, happy to.
Also, if anyone is interestedand if they are interested in
(28:35):
these trial sessions or eventsin the US or other parts of the
world we are active in Europeand US right now so just they
can subscribe to our newsletterso they can get all the
information.
And for finding all thesepartners, clinics, they can
check our website or, yeah, justthey can contact us by email or
other means.
(28:56):
So, yeah, that's, we're happyto kind of request.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Thank you, and just so you know, the company is
Magnus M-A-G-N-E-S, because Ithink people in the US might
want to spell it with an I-S.
That way they will find it.
It will be in the show notes,but just in case no one doesn't
want to look in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That's a wrap.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!