February 5, 2025 • 46 mins
Imagine navigating the choppy waters of self-identity, where understanding your own sexuality feels like a puzzle with missing pieces. Kaitlyn, a treasured friend of mine and my partner's best friend, joins us to share her poignant journey of self-discovery as a bisexual woman. At just 18, she faced the daunting task of figuring out her attraction to both sexes and the societal norms that clouded her understanding of the future. Through Kaitlyn's heartfelt narrative, we unpack the challenges and triumphs of embracing one's true self, illustrating how curiosity and courage can transform confusion into clarity.
From Instagram stalking *insert winky face* to lifelong love, their modern-day romance story unfolds next. Kaitlyn's fiancée, Celeste (or Cel, as she's lovingly called), and her found each other in the vast world of social media, and their connection quickly blossomed into something deeper. Their path to engagement was filled with moments of serendipity, from jet-lagged naps on first dates to the swift comfort of a shared home. They also touch on the stereotypes of modern dating and how breaking those molds brought them even closer together, revealing the beauty of finding love in unexpected places.
But the journey of love doesn't come without its hurdles, particularly when it involves coming out to loved ones. Kaitlyn recounts the spontaneous decision to share my bisexual identity with her mom during a phone call, an anxiety-laden yet liberating experience. Kaitlyn also sheds light on the broader challenges bisexual individuals face, such as stereotypes and societal expectations. Together, we discuss the importance of authenticity and the support found in trusted friendships. This episode aims to support and inspire, encouraging listeners to embrace their unique journeys and to live truthfully, regardless of societal norms or preconceived labels.
Follow the show on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/imnotgayyouarepodcast/
Stay tuned bi weekly (Wednesday) for a new episode from I'm not gay, you are
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey (00:13):
welcome back to the podcast.
Today we have a very specialguest with us on my couch and I
want to introduce you all.
This is caitlin hello everybodyum, caitlin is my partner's
best friend and, by association,my best friend.
That's right, um.
(00:35):
I pestered you and asked you acouple times to come on the pod.
I know you're an avid listenerto the podcast, so thanks for
listening.
Of course, yeah, I'm excited tolisten to your journey because I
don't fully know your story andI think there's so much added
(00:58):
value to a queer person'sjourney.
As you know, the podcast iskind of stemmed from talking
about where we started, where weare today, in the present, how
we got here and like whatchallenges we face and how we
kind of got through them.
So are you ready to get into it?
I think I'm ready, let's do itso typically in the podcast,
(01:18):
what we do is we kind of startwith your early years and like
how the journey of you cameabout and like where you started
getting these feelings from.
And so talk to me about likeyour early years, when you were
younger.
Like, did you have, like, gaytendencies?
Did you, you know, look atwomen and think that you're
attracted to them?
Like tell us your story,starting from the beginning, and
(01:41):
then we'll kind of get to whereyou are today and then start
with that okay take it away takeit away.
Kaitlyn (01:49):
So, yeah, thinking back to the beginning of my gay
journey, I can't recall like anexact moment where I was like, I
think, think I like women.
The first thing I want to sayis I'm bisexual, so, which is
(02:10):
very for me, it was veryconfusing growing up because I
had so many like crushes on boysand but then, like always in
the back of my mind, like therewas this little thought of, oh,
but I'm going to marry a woman,like sometimes I would think
(02:30):
that, or like me and my friends,would you know, talk about
certain things, and in the backof my head I was like, oh well,
that won't be an issue for mebecause I'll be with a woman.
But then also at the same time,same time, I was like, oh, but
I really have a crush on thisguy and I hope we end up
together.
So it was like very conflictingthoughts totally and I feel like
(02:53):
when you're younger too, youdon't, I don't know, I don't
even know when I realized thatbeing bisexual was like a thing,
like to me.
It was like you're either gayor you're straight, so it was
just you kind of follow, likethe natural norms of society
yeah how old were you?
Joey (03:10):
when you refer to yourself as like bisexual, what age are
you referring to?
Probably what's clear to youversus the unclear, because I
feel like for me, when peopleask me, I can't go back as far
as people think that I can likeyeah, it's quite unclear for me
yeah, like when people say Iknew when I was four, I'm like,
no, not me.
Kaitlyn (03:31):
Um, one of the like strongest memories.
Like I feel like there's alwaysbeen little like thoughts here
and there, but they feel almostinsignificant, like you know.
But I can remember when I wasabout 18 and I was working in a
restaurant and there was alesbian that worked there and
she was probably in her 30s andI just really wanted to talk to
(03:53):
her and be like, can I sit downand ask you like how did you
know that you were a lesbian?
Like I just had so manyquestions for her and like to me
that was probably one of themoments where I was like if I
really want to ask someone allthese questions, I feel like
it's an indicator for me that,like, if you're gonna ask
somebody or you're taking thelike, am I gay?
Joey (04:15):
quiz yeah, you're curious yeah there's like your curiosity
is the peaking?
Kaitlyn (04:20):
yeah it's kind of like well, maybe there's your answer,
yeah, or like not necessarilylike you have to be gay, but
that that curiosity is there.
So, yeah, probably when I was18 was the first time it really
became like a deeper thought forme.
Joey (04:34):
Like accepted thought.
Kaitlyn (04:36):
Yeah totally.
Joey (04:46):
You're 18, you've kind of come to this terms that you're
like I could be interested inboth sexes.
Um, what does that look likefor you at this age?
Like, are you in a relationship?
Okay?
Kaitlyn (04:52):
so I am in a relationship, currently
currently engaged to a woman,yay, um which sometimes I still
have to give my head a shake andjust like, wait, is that real?
Because, well, I feel like I'mgoing to contradict myself
because I said at the beginningI was like, oh, but that won't
be me, because I'll marry awoman.
(05:12):
But then, as I started to growup, I had boyfriends and then,
you know, I was like, oh, I'mgoing to marry a man, but I'm
curious about being with a woman, but I'll, I'll marry a man
anyways, but I'm curious aboutbeing with a woman, but I'll,
I'll marry a man anyways.
So, you know, when I kind ofthink about what my reality is
now like being so happy and soin love and planning to spend
(05:33):
the rest of my life with a womanI always think I'm like, wow,
it's kind of like I did itmoment.
You know Cause I think as well,for being bisexual, I was like
my life could very happily havepanned out and been with a man,
and that's that.
And I think there are a lot ofbi-curious people out there who
(05:55):
never explore that curiosity,and I always thought, oh, that's
gonna be me.
You know, like I'll never, I'lljust never get my chance to, to
explore that side of me and,yeah, sometimes I'm just like I
did it, you know, like somethingthat felt like such a big thing
is now just my normalday-to-day life it is a big
(06:16):
moment right like you know,being able to like step off that
, like cliff almost, and liketake that risk because at the
time.
Joey (06:23):
That's what it feels like you know you feel like the whole
world's watching, like am Isupposed to be doing this?
Is this normal?
Like I think the safety nethere is that, like this podcast
is a place where we can talkabout those feelings like openly
and like they're so real andthey're so valid.
You know, and I just, yeah,like even me it falls into the
(06:46):
stereotypical, you know, queermale person.
Yeah, really struggled withaccepting who I am and like
coming forward and coming outand you know, being in public
and pda, like all these likescary, you know, realizations.
Yes, I want to marry a man andyes, I want to be with a man in
the future, but coming to termswith that and then like showing
(07:09):
the world that it's such avulnerable situation.
So I definitely empathize withyou and like the, the situations
you've gone through, because Ifeel like every kind of queer
person goes through those phases.
I think in your situation it'sso unique because you don't
(07:31):
necessarily follow thestereotypical like norm of a
lesbian, whatever that may be,maybe, like you know, media or
is pushing that.
So, um, I think, and that's whyI understand more.
So like your confusion withlike who am I and how do I fit
(07:52):
in piece, and I think that kindof um yeah gives a better
understanding now listening to.
Obviously you talk about yourstory and like your journey and
carry on, sorry.
Kaitlyn (08:02):
I think what you said as well.
They're like who am I and howdo I fit in, or something you
said something along that linedon't quote me.
Joey (08:10):
I don't remember.
Kaitlyn (08:11):
Yeah, it was something along that line.
It made me think, um, and evenback to your recent episode with
your friend Briley as well, howyou know, she said something
too not to quote her because Ican't remember exactly, but it's
which I feel like is very valid, because there was one time
where I felt this way too, wherecuriosity became like okay,
well, I do enjoy women, but atthe end of the day I'm only
(08:51):
going to date a man, and it waskind of that way for a couple of
years.
And then, you know, I didquestion like well, if I haven't
been in a relationship with awoman, nor do I know if I ever
ever will be, is it fair to saylike I'm a part of the community
?
And you know, like I felt likeI didn't.
(09:11):
You know, if I went to anylesbian events or anything like
that, I'm like well, it's why Ididn't actually go to any of
those at that time, because Iwas like I don't belong there
anyways that makes sense.
Joey (09:23):
That's totally valid.
I, I again understand whereyou're coming from and that you
know who am I and how do I fitin.
So I think what's so greatabout the queer community is it
doesn't matter how you identifywho you show up as, like you are
always welcome and that's likewhat you're talking of I
resonate with.
(09:44):
But I also feel like they'revery internalized fears build
within ourself to protectourselves.
Or you know to.
You know, I don't know why wedo it, but like these fears that
we like self-install and theself-sabotaging like system that
we create.
So, um, yeah, I, I don't knowwhy we do that, but uh, what I
(10:06):
do know is, um, I understand thefeeling of you know not being
ready to go to these queerevents or these you know
entering into the communitybecause you're not sure like
where you fit in and what's it.
Someone else asks you like areyou a lesbian?
You're like that's like thescariest question.
Like you're like how do Ianswer?
Like I don't want to lie tothem, and then you know if I say
I'm bi but I've not actuallybeen with a woman yet.
(10:27):
Yeah, you know, and primarilyI'm dating you know men like am
I lying and does do I align withtheir community?
And I don't want to see like arainbow, like washer, like you
know, like there's all thesescary terms and stuff.
But I think, as long as you'rejust true to yourself and, um,
you know, I I don't think anyonein the queer community and I
don't want to talk for otherpeople, but personally I would
(10:48):
like to think that you'rewelcome anywhere as you are, who
you are and and the way youshow up.
So yeah.
Kaitlyn (10:53):
But the hard thing from my perspective as being
bisexual and I've heard these,you know similar things online
before is that yeah, if I showup to go to pride with my
boyfriend, then oh well, you'restraight.
Well, no, but I'm bi, right,and you'll always be the other
(11:17):
thing, if that makes sense.
So it's like you can never justbe bisexual.
It's always going to be likeputting you into a different
category thing.
So I think that's where itmakes.
Unless you're like in arelationship with a woman, then
at least how I used to feel waslike well then, I don't belong
anyways, which isn't true, right, yeah?
(11:39):
but it's just and that'ssomething that, yeah, as
individuals like it's just.
And that's something that, yeah, as individuals like it's just
your own journey of acceptingyourself and also kind of losing
that sense of caring whatothers think, like, oh, if you
can't understand the concept ofbeing bisexual, then I guess
that's on you.
Joey (11:57):
Like truly, like honestly, like there are days when I
leave the house with my partnerand me and you know Katlin were
talking about the other day andwe were like like do you think
it's weird that I don't holdyour hand in public?
And he's like no, it's just you.
And I was like I know, but doyou think it's weird?
Like I don't like doing thatbecause I don't like to cause
attention to like our union andlike I don't like to.
(12:18):
You know people to like talkabout me or feel like people are
gossiping about me like eventhough I'm very queer and
walking down the street like inmy tap shoes.
Kaitlyn (12:26):
I'm just okay, I'm not, but like, do you know what I
mean?
Joey (12:28):
Like I'm very like, open with who I am and accepting, but
I, I I just again don't want tolike I'm not a big fan of PDA
either and stuff, so like Idon't really.
Yeah, I'm segueing, but I feellike I'm trying to relate to
your emotion piece and, like yousaid, when you go to Pride, if
(12:50):
you were to go with, like youknow, a man who has the opposite
sex to you, obviously, and thenyou would be labeled as someone
straight Versus, if you go withas a same sex couple, couple,
you'd be welcomed.
But I feel that I think a lotof people think that and a lot
of people, like you know,internally have that battle.
Yeah, um, but there's no likeline.
(13:12):
You have to cross, like ourthreshold to be like this is me
and I'm gay and again, likethese are just labels that we
give to ourself to establishroles and like permissions in
like society, and I think that'sthe beauty of being queer.
So we talked and touchedlightly on you being a fiancee,
(13:33):
congratulations.
Thank you to our beautifulCeleste yes she's uh gonna hate
me for full naming her she will,will.
Kaitlyn (13:41):
That was the first thought in my mind.
Joey (13:43):
That was the first.
Kaitlyn (13:43):
the only rule Don't full name me on the podcast.
Joey (13:48):
Okay, Well, Sal our sweet baby, angel, your fiance.
Tell me how you both came aboutand how that relationship
formed.
Kaitlyn (13:59):
Yeah, it's.
It began because I for lack ofa better word stalked her on
Instagram.
Joey (14:08):
You initiated the kind of like process.
So, touching base on what wejust talked on, where are you in
your journey?
Are you accepting of who youare?
You're confident yourbisexuality?
You've been with other.
You know um same-sex partnersbefore.
Kaitlyn (14:27):
Yes, okay, I found her on Instagram.
And I actually found herthrough a different lesbian that
I was following already onInstagram and they were friends
and they lived together.
And that's how I started seeingSel through her stories.
And the first couple times thatI saw her on this other girl's
(14:51):
story I just thought, oh, she'sreally cute.
And then it became more of ahas this girl posted yet?
Because I want to see Sel.
Is she on there?
And then eventually they decidedthat they were going to
Australia together and I thought, oh great, I've missed my
opportunity, like I don't knowwhen she's coming back.
(15:11):
And then I saw a post orsomething that the two of them
were coming back or something.
I don't know, but they werecoming back soon.
And I thought, okay, I need toplant the seeds now, like I need
to make my move now.
And so I didn't want to be theperson who just slid into the
(15:31):
DMs and just, hey, I thinkyou're cute, like let's meet up,
you know.
So my plan was I'll follow herlike a couple of pics, which is
so cringy because that's justit's.
It's not something I would everdo and I feel like that's the
21st century dating.
I guess it is kind of yeah, Imean, what wouldn't?
Joey (15:54):
be normal is if you liked all of her photos, followed her,
unfollowed her, blocked her didI get your attention literally
yeah so, yeah, followed her.
Kaitlyn (16:06):
I only liked a couple of pics.
She did the same for me.
Okay, and then my plan ofattack was I'm going to wait
until she posts something funnyon her story that's worthy of me
responding to and spark aconversation.
So she posted her skating orsomething and all I did because
I couldn't think of anything tosay, I just did like the
(16:27):
reaction a crying, laughing faceand she actually left me on
read for like 10 minutes and Iwas like, well, I blew it,
because now it's weird if Islide into the DMs after this.
And then she ended up replyingand was like, oh, I just
embarrassed myself or something,and yeah, then we just started
talking while she's talking toall her girlfriends who is this
(16:49):
cutie just said a reaction to myInstagram like did she do it by
mistake?
Joey (16:53):
I'm like yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Kaitlyn (16:56):
Then it turns out she wasn't coming back to Canada for
like five months and I was like, great, now we have to keep a
spark going through Instagram.
But we ended up FaceTiming allthe time and talking all the
time and then we met as soon asshe came back in.
Like a week after that, sheliterally moved in and we
started dating.
(17:16):
Two years later we're engagedthere's the lesbian stereotype.
Joey (17:19):
Yep, there it is.
We fit the stereotype.
Kaitlyn (17:22):
There's the u-haul yeah , she literally moved in before
we actually became girlfriends,so yeah, were you nervous the
first time you met her?
Joey (17:31):
I was so nervous where'd you go, what do you do?
Kaitlyn (17:36):
she's gonna hate that I told the story, but so she
comes over and you guys went towings, didn't you?
Joey (17:42):
no, you're like wings.
Kaitlyn (17:44):
We got chicken wings uh , she comes over and the plan
was we were gonna go and getsushi and we did that.
We just brought it back to mineto eat.
And then I had planned out Iwas like let's, I bought all the
ingredients to make cookies andeverything.
I thought this would be so cute.
And then she did just get backfrom Australia which is big time
(18:07):
change and she's like, oh, I'mkind of tired, like let's just
relax, and so we lay in the bedand literally she fell asleep
like not even 20 minutes laterand she slept for like two hours
.
So we always joke that she fellasleep on the first date.
Joey (18:23):
It's not where I thought this is going.
Kaitlyn (18:25):
I was like come to the bed she's like oh, I'm tired
from laying in your bed.
Oh, that's funny.
But yeah, then we woke up andwe actually went to the bar with
her friend, which is funny,because this first date, if it
was anyone but Sel I would havebeen like firstly you fell
(18:47):
asleep and now you want to go tothe bar with your friends.
Joey (18:49):
Literally.
I would be like.
This is not Meanwhile.
You're like preheating the ovenfor the cookies I'm making
cookies 350.
Kaitlyn (18:57):
So, yeah, it just worked out.
And then I think she slept overfor like four nights in a row
and we just we always jokesaying like we're still on our
first date, it's just neverended oh yeah, sal the napper,
yeah it was so funny, that's socute.
Joey (19:16):
Well, she must have felt very comfortable.
Yeah, for her to, like you know, in your place, like just take
a nap for just a cheeky littleone yeah, she's gonna hate us
for talking about.
Kaitlyn (19:26):
I know we've outed her to the world now that's okay,
it's what we do here that's whatwe do.
Joey (19:30):
We're all about honesty thanks for sharing your story
with sal you're welcome, yeah ifyou don't mind, I would love to
talk about your kind of comingout story and what that looked
like for you and that aspect ofyour journey.
How old were you?
You know who was the firstperson you came out to?
Kaitlyn (19:53):
yeah, let's kind it's kind of a two-part story.
So the first time I came out, Iguess, was 2019, that's five
years ago, so it's 25 wait, Idon't know.
Oh, so around 25, 25, 26 whycan't I do something?
Joey (20:15):
why did I think it was like 2019?
Kaitlyn (20:17):
because you said 2019 anyways, whatever I was, my 20
and basically I had just brokenup with my boyfriend and also
the thought of wanting to bewith a woman.
I'd been thinking about it foryears and years and years and at
(20:39):
that time I thought, you know,I was like oh what?
Like I might never get mychance, like what if this
relationship just goes onforever, like I just don't get
my chance?
So the relationship ended on,let's say, a Thursday and
Saturday night.
I seized my moment, like Iliterally didn't waste any time,
because I was like I've beenthinking about this moment for
(21:01):
so long and I just wanted to.
I just wanted to have my littleexperience.
And so, funny enough, I textedCatlin, your boyfriend, and I
said to him I'm sharing mylocation with you because I'm
going over to someone'sapartment.
Joey (21:20):
He always tells me the story.
He always tells me and he stillhas your location on it.
Kaitlyn (21:24):
Yeah, he does.
That's so funny, he alwayschecks where you are.
Where is she.
And you know, I didn't want to,um, I didn't want anything bad
to happen.
So anything bad to happen, so.
(21:47):
But funny enough, I had so manygay friends but I never, even
though I was feeling this wayand having these thoughts for so
many years, I never, ever once,opened up to them or confided
in them, because I just thoughtalso, this is something I want
to do for me, without a singleperson's input, before I do it,
kind of thing.
Joey (22:04):
Right.
And also, just test the water.
Kaitlyn (22:07):
Test the water Also.
I'm like what if I do thisthing?
And I'm like, no, that's notfor me, so no one even needs to
know.
Joey (22:12):
Right.
Kaitlyn (22:13):
But I yeah, I sent it to Kat.
I was like, oh, I'm just goingto this guy's house, um, here's
my location.
And um.
Joey (22:20):
You knew, I don't think so .
Kaitlyn (22:23):
I'm pretty sure he didn't, because when I finally
told him he's like what anyways?
Um, but yeah, and then I thinkI honestly don't even have a, a
big coming out moment to myfriends and stuff after that.
So there wasn't an exact momentthat I can recall.
That was a like a, so to say,serious coming out to my friends
(22:46):
.
But I think I just sent thepeople that I felt like I wanted
to tell a message that was likeoh my gosh, guess what I just
did last night, and that waskind of it Like last night, and
that was kind of it like.
And then from there I just kindof had a fun summer, would fill
them in on the details and Inever really had to like
(23:08):
formally come out to any of myfriends.
I feel there was someconversations with one of my
friends where he asked me sowhat is this like?
Are you gonna?
Are you gonna date a woman?
Like, where are you going withthis path that you're on?
And I'm pretty sure I said tohim something along the lines of
(23:28):
, well, I don't know, like the,you know, I'll probably never
date a woman, but I'm justhaving fun, but all this kind of
stuff.
And yeah, so it was very casualwith my friends and I always
felt like being bisexual I Ithink you should definitely
always be proud of who you are,no matter if you are a woman,
(23:51):
you marry a man or a woman.
Anything but for me, I justthought I'd rather not have this
conversation with my family ifit's, if I don't have to like if
I'm gonna fall in love with aman and marry him, I don't think
I need to tell my mom you justfeel like you don't need to make
(24:12):
it like this extraordinary,like over the top kind of like
you're drawing so much attentionto something that should
already like pre-approved andlike okay and like.
Joey (24:22):
By like drawing this attention to it, you can get
something that it doesn't needto be and you're except like
expecting a response exactlyhoping it's going to be positive
, but what if it's essentiallynot, so yeah I, I already know
kind of like where that is going.
Kaitlyn (24:38):
Yeah, and I always thought too, if I am going to
actually date a girl, then I'llneed to have a conversation with
my mom.
But then you know, as I said,maybe I'll never will and it's
just something we don't reallyneed to discuss.
And then I met Sel on Instagramand this is how serious I knew
(25:01):
my feelings for her were beforeI even physically met her in
person.
Us that I knew I had to comeout to my mom, but also I really
(25:26):
wanted it to be very casual andbecause the thought of doing
that, really I knew that shewould be okay with it, because I
have lots of gay friends,there's gay members of my family
Like I just I just knew itwasn't going to be a thing.
But also there's always thatlittle 1% fear that was in my
(25:47):
mind being like but what ifbecause?
I've heard stories and I knowpeople that their experience
coming out was not good.
So and I thought too you know Ikeep saying coming out to my
mom because I'm like she was theone person on earth that I
thought if she's not going toaccept me, then I care, you know
whereas everyone else, like I,couldn't care if anybody else on
(26:10):
earth was like, oh, you're gay,well, I can't have you in my
life.
I'd be like, okay, then get outof mine, like I don't want you
in my life anyways.
But for me my mom was the onewhere that would have broke me.
You know, I was like I cannot,and it's just, although I'm very
(26:30):
, very confident, or was veryconfident, she'd be okay with it
, it's still that fear.
When I decided I wanted to tellher, I wanted to make it a very
nonchalant, like I didn't wantto plan it because I knew if in
my head, okay, this Saturday I'mgoing to do it, then I would be
stressed for so long.
And I actually went for brunch,I think, maybe with Katlin,
actually, anyways, it doesn'tmatter.
(26:53):
And when I went home I wastalking to my mom and this is
three years ago now, but I wastalking to her on the phone and
then it just came into my headand I was like why don't I just
do it now?
Because if I do it now, it'sover in the next five minutes,
otherwise I'm going to hang upthe phone.
It's still going to be on mymind that I didn't do it.
(27:14):
I'm just going to think aboutit, that I want to do it and all
this stuff.
So my mom was finishing theconversation and she's like okay
, well, I'm going to go and blah, blah, blah.
And I was like mom and she'slike yeah, and I was like and I
was just quiet because I'm likeI've started it now and she's
like what is it?
I need to tell you something.
And then, of course, my momstarts worrying what is it?
(27:37):
What it?
And I was like ah, and I justcouldn't find the words.
And instantly I'm sweating,like, and also this is over the
phone.
I think I said that.
But and then I was just likeI'm bisexual, so that means I
like girls too.
Joey (27:51):
Because I was like I don't know, I don't know what she
knows.
She's like um, what's that?
Kaitlyn (27:56):
and I just immediately started crying because I just
feel like that relief yeah, andalso it.
It honestly felt like a feverdream, like having that
conversation with my mom, likeand it was just, she was very
lovely, like and we talked aboutit for probably 20 minutes,
like she asked all the rightquestions and but yeah, I know
(28:17):
she hung up and she wentstraight to Google.
Joey (28:20):
What does this mean?
Kaitlyn (28:22):
um, but yeah, like it was, and for probably like an
hour after two I was like crying.
Oh, I think I know why I wantedto tell her that moment,
because that's the first nightactually I FaceTime sell as well
so actually I told her so likeyour, like hormones and vibes
were so high that you'reprobably like this isn't.
Joey (28:41):
It's now like you're like I'm in a great spot like.
I feel good, my serotonin'sboosted exactly so.
Kaitlyn (28:47):
And then, yeah, I remember I hung up for my mom
and I immediately texted cell,also, I think, because I really
wanted something with cell.
I didn't want her to think, oh,she's not even out yet, anyways
.
So like I felt like I needed toprove that I'm for real kind of
thing, you know.
Joey (29:06):
So that you were serious.
Kaitlyn (29:08):
I'm serious yeah, and immediately after I texted cells
, like oh, I just came out to mymom, the phone starts calling
and I was like this is our firsttime facetiming, my eyes are
puffy.
I was like I declined the call.
I was like I need like an hourto get ready and whatever.
And then that was it.
And then everyone else like Ijust thought I don't care.
(29:29):
I said to my mom too I was likeyou can go and tell whoever you
want, do whatever you want withthat information.
I was like I just I don't care.
And like how I told my brother,I just I told him a lot later,
like when Sal and I were in arelationship, I just called him
and I was like, oh, I justwanted you to hear from me, but
I have a girlfriend.
So, and he was like, oh, okay,like it was just, it was very
(29:50):
chill and anyone else?
I just yeah, like I just don'tcare, like thankfully there's
been no one who has had an issuewith it.
But if I ever did come acrossthat, then to me I'm just like
okay, well then, just don't bein my life, because you're quite
literally the kind of person Iwouldn't want to associate with
anyways.
Joey (30:10):
So well, it looks like you've got a good network, good
support system thankfully yesyeah and um, you have the right
mindset of basically who youwant to have will respect your
decisions and you want to keepthem around vice versa, so I
applaud that.
Kaitlyn (30:26):
Thank you.
Joey (30:28):
Yeah, one question I do have is is there anyone that you
told that was shocked, or likewas like oh, you're gay.
Is there anyone that likesticks out in your head, like
you don't obviously name them,but like gay?
Is there anyone that likesticks out in your head, like
you don't obviously name them,but like is there an experience
that you had that?
Like you were like oh, that'snot what I was expecting.
Kaitlyn (30:44):
When they were like I think, I think my mom actually,
was one, yeah because, well, Ithink I gave no hints to anybody
.
You know, I, I, I kepteverything completely inside,
like I, like I said, I didn'teven tell my gay friends like.
Hey, I'm kind of thinking aboutthis.
I kept a hundred percent of thethoughts to myself and I'm also
(31:09):
you know stereotypically whatyou would think of when you
think of just a straight girl,you know like.
So I think a lot of people wereshocked like no one totally and
like.
Joey (31:23):
Also like, knowing, like your past history of like you
coming out of long-termrelationships with boys and like
and men or whatever.
So, um, I feel that that mightcloud people's expectation of
the new coming out as bisexual.
So, um, that's kind of where Iwas pointing the question out
more.
So that is like where peoplepeople probably weren't
(31:45):
expecting it.
Um, again, um, reflecting whatyou said and what I said earlier
in the podcast was you don'ttypically have this
stereotypical, outlined lesbianlook to you physically and I
know that looks different foreveryone.
So if I saw you in the street Iwouldn't, you know, necessarily
(32:08):
know that you were a part ofthe queer community on first
approach yeah, you know, and Iknow that like is again like
probably gonna get me in troublefor saying maybe I don't know,
like, say it.
Well, you know, I are like arewe allowed to like prejudge
someone and like identifysomeone as queer by just visibly
looking at them and not knowingthem or their backstory?
Kaitlyn (32:30):
I think, whether you're quote allowed to or not, like
people do and people will, yeah,but also I think it's sometimes
it's easy to tell who is queer,but then sometimes actually
surprisingly, this week there'sbeen three times where I've said
like something about you know,oh, this guy, and they're like,
(32:51):
oh, he's not gay, or likesomething I'm like, oh, so maybe
I should retract my wholestatement.
I actually have no gaydar, he'snot gay, you are Literally,
though.
Literally.
Joey (33:05):
Okay, so let's talk about potential challenges.
So do you feel like you faceany challenges or, I guess,
bumps in the road or somethingthat, like you know, you weren't
so familiar with identifying,as in quotations, a straight
female, straight female, versusnow coming into, like this
(33:32):
bisexual era, dating a woman andtaking on that identity?
What challenge, what challenges, if any, have you faced during
this kind of like transition in,like your identity?
Kaitlyn (33:40):
Well, I think for me, one of the challenges and it's
still something that ischallenging for me is again, I
don't want to contradict what Ijust said of if you have a
problem with me, then I don'tneed you in my life, but, for
example, in the workplace, myjob that I do is very like the
(34:02):
people that I work with or notwork with, but like our, our
customers.
Yes, they're of an oldergeneration and I just, you know,
they always ask me like on aweekly basis oh, you got a
boyfriend or a husband?
And I don't lie to them but I'mjust like no, I don't.
Joey (34:25):
Yeah, oh.
Kaitlyn (34:26):
I got a grandson that would just love you.
Oh fun, like whatever, but Ijust I don't feel the need to be
like, oh no, well, I supposenow I have a fiance, but back
then I wouldn't, I didn't feelthe need to be like, oh no, I
actually have a girlfriend, oryou know, only because I just
(34:47):
think it's.
I don't know, Firstly, it's notreally any of your business and
secondly, I just I don't need to.
I'm not here to try and changeyour opinions, but it is
something that I think for me, Ithe reason I say I see it as a
challenge is like, well, it'sjust something I never had to
face before, because if I go, doyou have a boyfriend?
Yeah, I do.
Actually, you know, or italmost feels like I'm not being
(35:11):
genuine in a sense.
And well, they'll be dead soon,so uh, I'm just kidding, I'm
kidding um no, um, I thinkthat's super fair as a challenge
.
Joey (35:26):
I think my only advice would be to and, and like this
is this me in no means does itmean you have to like, say like,
stick it to them and be likeI'm a lesbian or I'm bisexual.
I'm dating a woman like you know, like in no way do you need to
do that, or like I'm gay, or,you know, shove it in their face
.
But maybe I feel like for me,the best kind of like practice I
(35:47):
learned in customer service.
Obviously I scream gayespecially when I serve.
I don't serve, I serve.
I would always refer to Katlynas my partner and kept it very
like non-gender specific.
Kaitlyn (36:07):
Yeah.
Joey (36:08):
And for the very confused people and there there's a few
of them still out there um iethe older community would be
like oh well, she's a lucky girl, yeah and you know I kind of
find it humorous.
Now I'm like oh yes, she iscaitlin yeah, I should identify.
My partner is called caitlinyeah everyone calls him caitlin
(36:31):
because the eye is not confusingI mean visibly, I guess it
could be confusing but anyways,but yeah, I feel like, uh, my
advice to you would be, on thissetting of your, of your
workplace and customer serviceum, you could, you know, attempt
to say like refer to them asyour partner and customer
service um, you, could, you know, attempt to say like refer to
them as your partner and thatwould give them like an inkling
(36:53):
to go off of something ratherthan like you know like.
Kaitlyn (36:56):
Oh, no like.
Joey (36:57):
I have a partner or yeah, it's just I.
Kaitlyn (37:02):
Yeah, I do say the word partner sometimes, but then I
also this is a whole other thingis.
I also hate saying partnerbecause I'm like, well, not in
that context, but let's say likea completely different context.
Because if it was talking tothe older generation that I work
with, then I would, yeah, maybejust say that.
(37:23):
But if I'm just, you know,meeting a new coworker and I
don't, I I'd want to say, oh, meand my girlfriend did this this
weekend.
But then a lot of times theyinterpret that as, like, my
friend, that's a girl you know,but then?
but I'm like I don't want to saypartner because I'm proud to
(37:44):
have a girlfriend at that time.
No fiance, but you know.
So I feel like I'm getting loston what I'm saying.
No, that makes complete sense.
Joey (37:54):
That makes complete sense.
I never thought about that.
I mean obviously for theterminology boyfriend yeah boys,
don't throw that around likeI'm hanging out with the boys.
Kaitlyn (38:02):
Yeah, I'm hanging out with my boyfriends.
Joey (38:03):
Hang out with my boyfriends tonight, yeah you
know we're gonna go watch thebachelorette.
Uh that that guest never comesup in topic.
So like when I say my boyfriend, it's very clear that I have a
boy as a lifelong partner.
Or like I'm in a relationshipwith the same sex yeah, so I do?
Yeah, I can, I, I am gay.
(38:24):
I can see how it would beconfusing for other people to be
like girlfriend.
Kaitlyn (38:32):
So it's going to be interesting.
Like sometimes people do pickup when I say, or when I would
say, girlfriend, that I meanromantic.
But then it'll be interestingnow moving forward, like when I
get back to work and stuff,because I don't really see
people outside of my regularcircle when I'm not working.
But it'll be interesting when Isay, like, fiance, because
(38:52):
that's so gender neutral, newpeople that I'm meeting who
obviously don't know that I'mengaged to a woman, it's going
to be automatically, oh he,which I don't mind correcting
like peers.
But like if I say that tocustomers, I just know I'm going
to be like, oh sure, like Idon't know which, yeah it's just
(39:13):
yeah and I feel like yeah,otherwise opens like not a can
of worms, but like thatgenerational, like I roll.
Yeah.
Joey (39:21):
Almost and like not that they're disapproving of you I
don't think that's but likebecause they're like oh, I've
made a mistake and you know,you've got to.
Sometimes they get upset andthen you're like I'm sorry.
And I'm like it doesn't meanthat much to me but like it
could to someone.
So, like maybe you should justbe mindful that, like we're in a
new age and like people arequeer, and like dating same sex
(39:44):
now, and that might not havebeen a thing before.
People weren't as likecomfortable before right, I mean
totally like, even like thetimes and stuff.
It wasn't safe and yeah.
I recognize that, but I just,yeah, I understand that aspect
of your of your workplace mustbe difficult.
Okay, last question, if any,what advice would you give to
(40:06):
someone listening to the podcastthat might be exploring
same-sex relationships or notready to come out but just need
to be reassured that you knowtheir feelings are valid and
their emotions are valid andwhat they're going through is
pretty normal.
Kaitlyn (40:27):
So if you have anything you want to add, yeah, I would
say to do everything on your ownterms.
And I think for me that's whyyou know, I chose to not even
talk about it with my um, myfriends, like gay or straight.
So I was just like I didn'twant a single input because it's
(40:49):
kind of, you know it, it reallydid change the whole trajectory
of my life.
So I'm like I wanted to makesure exploring this side of me
was 100% what I was ready to do,wanting to do and just know
that I was, I was ready to makethat decision.
So I think, for anybody who'syou know, maybe bi-curious or,
(41:16):
you know, questioning like, am Igay, am I not gay, or all these
things, I just think you knowkind of doing that
self-exploration and takingyourself on your own journey.
But then also I do believe inconfiding with those people
around you, cause, looking backon you know my life before, um,
I'm very blessed to have had,you know, a number of gay
(41:38):
friends and I I do wish now,looking back, I'm like why
wouldn't I have?
Just like you know, I had somany questions and you know,
there would have.
I had such a a community presentto me that I didn't even take
advantage of um.
So if you do have friends youknow, gay or straight, like
somebody that you can reallytrust and you know that you can
(41:59):
feel confident and safeconfiding in them, then I think
that's also really good um.
But if you feel like it's ajourney that you're happy to
navigate yourself, like I was,until you're sure of yourself,
then that's okay too yeah,that's, that's awesome.
Joey (42:17):
Yeah, that resonates with me a lot yeah and like I feel
that, like you took the road youtook to ensure that exactly how
you were feeling was authentic,oh no, authentic authentically
yes, yourself yes, um, ratherthan having, like outsiders,
(42:38):
opinions and people kind of likeweighing in on it and you know
bringing up, like pastrelationships or other things
which could be conflicting again, like this confusing bisexual
background you've got that,you're like, ah, like I don't
know, like is it men, is itwomen?
Like I think?
at the end of the day, like whatit really comes down to is,
like who you are with in thepresent, and today is where you
(43:00):
want to be today or where yousee your future or however that
might be, and like that mightchange.
Like you know, like absolutely.
It doesn't mean that, likeyou're gay forever, that doesn't
mean you're, you know, withthis one person forever, or
you're this sex forever, becauseyou know we're advancing as
like humans and we're we're.
A lot is becoming available tous and as we navigate that, I
(43:21):
feel like we're really blessedto live in this time where we
are able to be who we want to beyeah, quite literally, be who
we want to be and be who with wewant to be yeah, absolutely.
Kaitlyn (43:33):
I think one thing I want to throw out there, for the
bi community as well, is the bibabies.
The bi babies.
Just from what I've heard, andfrom myself too, we're all very
we're not all, but a lot of usare guilty of the you know
thinking, you know who you'regoing to end up with you know,
oh, but I'll marry a man, kindof thing, or all those things.
(43:57):
And it makes you question allthis stuff.
And I remember somebody oncesaid to me well, I feel like you
kind of need to know, likegoing into something like, are
you wanting to marry a man orare you wanting to marry a woman
?
Like you?
You probably know what you'relooking for.
And I remember I was like, well, how can you know who you'll
(44:19):
end up with until you fall inlove with that person?
And I think that kind of cutsby people, a little bit of slack
of feeling, so much pressure ofyou know, when you like both
men and women, it's it cancreate all this confusion.
And you know it's sometimes,yeah, it's just confusing.
But then if you just giveyourself that bit of grace and
(44:42):
think you don't, you don't needto plan who you're going to
marry in 5, 10, 15 years, it'sjust let life go and you just
marry who you're going to marryin 5, 10, 15 years.
It's just let life go and youjust marry who you fall in love
with.
Joey (44:51):
Live in the present.
Kaitlyn (44:52):
Yeah, live in the present, Be who you are and see
where the life takes you.
Joey (44:57):
Everything will fall into place.
Yeah, it will.
Kaitlyn (45:01):
It always does.
Joey (45:03):
Well, that brings us to the end of the episode.
Thank you for being here.
Kaitlyn (45:07):
Thank you, joey, I've had a great time.
Joey (45:09):
yeah, yep, gay old time an emotional hangover tomorrow
yeah thanks for sharing yourjourney and your experiences and
giving you know a wealth ofknowledge on um just being by
and open possibilities forpotentially people listening.
Sharing that last little pieceof advice that I know that maybe
(45:30):
one person that listens to willsee value in I hope so maybe
add it.
Maybe add it to their, theirjourney.
The best thing about thispodcast is everyone's journey is
different and no two queerpeople are the same and I think
that's what we're recognizinghere really quickly.
Is that like it's not linear?
yeah, no yeah and like.
(45:50):
What's important is that, like,everyone's experience is valid
and should be recognized andsupported, and you know, getting
over that hump sometimes is thehardest thing to do.
So, yeah, well, thank you forbeing here I appreciate your
time.
Always, welcome back.
I'll be back, I think.
Cells on the list.
Oh yes, maybe we listen to herstory and she's like, yeah, this
(46:12):
bitch was just messaging me oninstagram all the time sending
me the reaction stories toeverything and I was just like
and remember, I'm not a napperyou are, you are that's funny.
welcome back to the podcast.
Today we have a very specialguest with us on my couch and I
want to introduce you all.
This is caitlin hello everybodyum, caitlin is my partner's
best friend and, by association,my best friend.
That's right, um.
(00:35):
I pestered you and asked you acouple times to come on the pod.
I know you're an avid listenerto the podcast, so thanks for
listening.
Of course, yeah, I'm excited tolisten to your journey because I
don't fully know your story andI think there's so much added
(00:58):
value to a queer person'sjourney.
As you know, the podcast iskind of stemmed from talking
about where we started, where weare today, in the present, how
we got here and like whatchallenges we face and how we
kind of got through them.
So are you ready to get into it?
I think I'm ready, let's do itso typically in the podcast,
(01:18):
what we do is we kind of startwith your early years and like
how the journey of you cameabout and like where you started
getting these feelings from.
And so talk to me about likeyour early years, when you were
younger.
Like, did you have, like, gaytendencies?
Did you, you know, look atwomen and think that you're
attracted to them?
Like tell us your story,starting from the beginning, and
(01:41):
then we'll kind of get to whereyou are today and then start
with that okay take it away takeit away.
Kaitlyn (01:49):
So, yeah, thinking back to the beginning of my gay
journey, I can't recall like anexact moment where I was like, I
think, think I like women.
The first thing I want to sayis I'm bisexual, so, which is
(02:10):
very for me, it was veryconfusing growing up because I
had so many like crushes on boysand but then, like always in
the back of my mind, like therewas this little thought of, oh,
but I'm going to marry a woman,like sometimes I would think
(02:30):
that, or like me and my friends,would you know, talk about
certain things, and in the backof my head I was like, oh well,
that won't be an issue for mebecause I'll be with a woman.
But then also at the same time,same time, I was like, oh, but
I really have a crush on thisguy and I hope we end up
together.
So it was like very conflictingthoughts totally and I feel like
(02:53):
when you're younger too, youdon't, I don't know, I don't
even know when I realized thatbeing bisexual was like a thing,
like to me.
It was like you're either gayor you're straight, so it was
just you kind of follow, likethe natural norms of society
yeah how old were you?
Joey (03:10):
when you refer to yourself as like bisexual, what age are
you referring to?
Probably what's clear to youversus the unclear, because I
feel like for me, when peopleask me, I can't go back as far
as people think that I can likeyeah, it's quite unclear for me
yeah, like when people say Iknew when I was four, I'm like,
no, not me.
Kaitlyn (03:31):
Um, one of the like strongest memories.
Like I feel like there's alwaysbeen little like thoughts here
and there, but they feel almostinsignificant, like you know.
But I can remember when I wasabout 18 and I was working in a
restaurant and there was alesbian that worked there and
she was probably in her 30s andI just really wanted to talk to
(03:53):
her and be like, can I sit downand ask you like how did you
know that you were a lesbian?
Like I just had so manyquestions for her and like to me
that was probably one of themoments where I was like if I
really want to ask someone allthese questions, I feel like
it's an indicator for me that,like, if you're gonna ask
somebody or you're taking thelike, am I gay?
Joey (04:15):
quiz yeah, you're curious yeah there's like your curiosity
is the peaking?
Kaitlyn (04:20):
yeah it's kind of like well, maybe there's your answer,
yeah, or like not necessarilylike you have to be gay, but
that that curiosity is there.
So, yeah, probably when I was18 was the first time it really
became like a deeper thought forme.
Joey (04:34):
Like accepted thought.
Kaitlyn (04:36):
Yeah totally.
Joey (04:46):
You're 18, you've kind of come to this terms that you're
like I could be interested inboth sexes.
Um, what does that look likefor you at this age?
Like, are you in a relationship?
Okay?
Kaitlyn (04:52):
so I am in a relationship, currently
currently engaged to a woman,yay, um which sometimes I still
have to give my head a shake andjust like, wait, is that real?
Because, well, I feel like I'mgoing to contradict myself
because I said at the beginningI was like, oh, but that won't
be me, because I'll marry awoman.
(05:12):
But then, as I started to growup, I had boyfriends and then,
you know, I was like, oh, I'mgoing to marry a man, but I'm
curious about being with a woman, but I'll, I'll marry a man
anyways, but I'm curious aboutbeing with a woman, but I'll,
I'll marry a man anyways.
So, you know, when I kind ofthink about what my reality is
now like being so happy and soin love and planning to spend
(05:33):
the rest of my life with a womanI always think I'm like, wow,
it's kind of like I did itmoment.
You know Cause I think as well,for being bisexual, I was like
my life could very happily havepanned out and been with a man,
and that's that.
And I think there are a lot ofbi-curious people out there who
(05:55):
never explore that curiosity,and I always thought, oh, that's
gonna be me.
You know, like I'll never, I'lljust never get my chance to, to
explore that side of me and,yeah, sometimes I'm just like I
did it, you know, like somethingthat felt like such a big thing
is now just my normalday-to-day life it is a big
(06:16):
moment right like you know,being able to like step off that
, like cliff almost, and liketake that risk because at the
time.
Joey (06:23):
That's what it feels like you know you feel like the whole
world's watching, like am Isupposed to be doing this?
Is this normal?
Like I think the safety nethere is that, like this podcast
is a place where we can talkabout those feelings like openly
and like they're so real andthey're so valid.
You know, and I just, yeah,like even me it falls into the
(06:46):
stereotypical, you know, queermale person.
Yeah, really struggled withaccepting who I am and like
coming forward and coming outand you know, being in public
and pda, like all these likescary, you know, realizations.
Yes, I want to marry a man andyes, I want to be with a man in
the future, but coming to termswith that and then like showing
(07:09):
the world that it's such avulnerable situation.
So I definitely empathize withyou and like the, the situations
you've gone through, because Ifeel like every kind of queer
person goes through those phases.
I think in your situation it'sso unique because you don't
(07:31):
necessarily follow thestereotypical like norm of a
lesbian, whatever that may be,maybe, like you know, media or
is pushing that.
So, um, I think, and that's whyI understand more.
So like your confusion withlike who am I and how do I fit
(07:52):
in piece, and I think that kindof um yeah gives a better
understanding now listening to.
Obviously you talk about yourstory and like your journey and
carry on, sorry.
Kaitlyn (08:02):
I think what you said as well.
They're like who am I and howdo I fit in, or something you
said something along that linedon't quote me.
Joey (08:10):
I don't remember.
Kaitlyn (08:11):
Yeah, it was something along that line.
It made me think, um, and evenback to your recent episode with
your friend Briley as well, howyou know, she said something
too not to quote her because Ican't remember exactly, but it's
which I feel like is very valid, because there was one time
where I felt this way too, wherecuriosity became like okay,
well, I do enjoy women, but atthe end of the day I'm only
(08:51):
going to date a man, and it waskind of that way for a couple of
years.
And then, you know, I didquestion like well, if I haven't
been in a relationship with awoman, nor do I know if I ever
ever will be, is it fair to saylike I'm a part of the community
?
And you know, like I felt likeI didn't.
(09:11):
You know, if I went to anylesbian events or anything like
that, I'm like well, it's why Ididn't actually go to any of
those at that time, because Iwas like I don't belong there
anyways that makes sense.
Joey (09:23):
That's totally valid.
I, I again understand whereyou're coming from and that you
know who am I and how do I fitin.
So I think what's so greatabout the queer community is it
doesn't matter how you identifywho you show up as, like you are
always welcome and that's likewhat you're talking of I
resonate with.
(09:44):
But I also feel like they'revery internalized fears build
within ourself to protectourselves.
Or you know to.
You know, I don't know why wedo it, but like these fears that
we like self-install and theself-sabotaging like system that
we create.
So, um, yeah, I, I don't knowwhy we do that, but uh, what I
(10:06):
do know is, um, I understand thefeeling of you know not being
ready to go to these queerevents or these you know
entering into the communitybecause you're not sure like
where you fit in and what's it.
Someone else asks you like areyou a lesbian?
You're like that's like thescariest question.
Like you're like how do Ianswer?
Like I don't want to lie tothem, and then you know if I say
I'm bi but I've not actuallybeen with a woman yet.
(10:27):
Yeah, you know, and primarilyI'm dating you know men like am
I lying and does do I align withtheir community?
And I don't want to see like arainbow, like washer, like you
know, like there's all thesescary terms and stuff.
But I think, as long as you'rejust true to yourself and, um,
you know, I I don't think anyonein the queer community and I
don't want to talk for otherpeople, but personally I would
(10:48):
like to think that you'rewelcome anywhere as you are, who
you are and and the way youshow up.
So yeah.
Kaitlyn (10:53):
But the hard thing from my perspective as being
bisexual and I've heard these,you know similar things online
before is that yeah, if I showup to go to pride with my
boyfriend, then oh well, you'restraight.
Well, no, but I'm bi, right,and you'll always be the other
(11:17):
thing, if that makes sense.
So it's like you can never justbe bisexual.
It's always going to be likeputting you into a different
category thing.
So I think that's where itmakes.
Unless you're like in arelationship with a woman, then
at least how I used to feel waslike well then, I don't belong
anyways, which isn't true, right, yeah?
(11:39):
but it's just and that'ssomething that, yeah, as
individuals like it's just.
And that's something that, yeah, as individuals like it's just
your own journey of acceptingyourself and also kind of losing
that sense of caring whatothers think, like, oh, if you
can't understand the concept ofbeing bisexual, then I guess
that's on you.
Joey (11:57):
Like truly, like honestly, like there are days when I
leave the house with my partnerand me and you know Katlin were
talking about the other day andwe were like like do you think
it's weird that I don't holdyour hand in public?
And he's like no, it's just you.
And I was like I know, but doyou think it's weird?
Like I don't like doing thatbecause I don't like to cause
attention to like our union andlike I don't like to.
(12:18):
You know people to like talkabout me or feel like people are
gossiping about me like eventhough I'm very queer and
walking down the street like inmy tap shoes.
Kaitlyn (12:26):
I'm just okay, I'm not, but like, do you know what I
mean?
Joey (12:28):
Like I'm very like, open with who I am and accepting, but
I, I I just again don't want tolike I'm not a big fan of PDA
either and stuff, so like Idon't really.
Yeah, I'm segueing, but I feellike I'm trying to relate to
your emotion piece and, like yousaid, when you go to Pride, if
(12:50):
you were to go with, like youknow, a man who has the opposite
sex to you, obviously, and thenyou would be labeled as someone
straight Versus, if you go withas a same sex couple, couple,
you'd be welcomed.
But I feel that I think a lotof people think that and a lot
of people, like you know,internally have that battle.
Yeah, um, but there's no likeline.
(13:12):
You have to cross, like ourthreshold to be like this is me
and I'm gay and again, likethese are just labels that we
give to ourself to establishroles and like permissions in
like society, and I think that'sthe beauty of being queer.
So we talked and touchedlightly on you being a fiancee,
(13:33):
congratulations.
Thank you to our beautifulCeleste yes she's uh gonna hate
me for full naming her she will,will.
Kaitlyn (13:41):
That was the first thought in my mind.
Joey (13:43):
That was the first.
Kaitlyn (13:43):
the only rule Don't full name me on the podcast.
Joey (13:48):
Okay, Well, Sal our sweet baby, angel, your fiance.
Tell me how you both came aboutand how that relationship
formed.
Kaitlyn (13:59):
Yeah, it's.
It began because I for lack ofa better word stalked her on
Instagram.
Joey (14:08):
You initiated the kind of like process.
So, touching base on what wejust talked on, where are you in
your journey?
Are you accepting of who youare?
You're confident yourbisexuality?
You've been with other.
You know um same-sex partnersbefore.
Kaitlyn (14:27):
Yes, okay, I found her on Instagram.
And I actually found herthrough a different lesbian that
I was following already onInstagram and they were friends
and they lived together.
And that's how I started seeingSel through her stories.
And the first couple times thatI saw her on this other girl's
(14:51):
story I just thought, oh, she'sreally cute.
And then it became more of ahas this girl posted yet?
Because I want to see Sel.
Is she on there?
And then eventually they decidedthat they were going to
Australia together and I thought, oh great, I've missed my
opportunity, like I don't knowwhen she's coming back.
(15:11):
And then I saw a post orsomething that the two of them
were coming back or something.
I don't know, but they werecoming back soon.
And I thought, okay, I need toplant the seeds now, like I need
to make my move now.
And so I didn't want to be theperson who just slid into the
(15:31):
DMs and just, hey, I thinkyou're cute, like let's meet up,
you know.
So my plan was I'll follow herlike a couple of pics, which is
so cringy because that's justit's.
It's not something I would everdo and I feel like that's the
21st century dating.
I guess it is kind of yeah, Imean, what wouldn't?
Joey (15:54):
be normal is if you liked all of her photos, followed her,
unfollowed her, blocked her didI get your attention literally
yeah so, yeah, followed her.
Kaitlyn (16:06):
I only liked a couple of pics.
She did the same for me.
Okay, and then my plan ofattack was I'm going to wait
until she posts something funnyon her story that's worthy of me
responding to and spark aconversation.
So she posted her skating orsomething and all I did because
I couldn't think of anything tosay, I just did like the
(16:27):
reaction a crying, laughing faceand she actually left me on
read for like 10 minutes and Iwas like, well, I blew it,
because now it's weird if Islide into the DMs after this.
And then she ended up replyingand was like, oh, I just
embarrassed myself or something,and yeah, then we just started
talking while she's talking toall her girlfriends who is this
(16:49):
cutie just said a reaction to myInstagram like did she do it by
mistake?
Joey (16:53):
I'm like yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Kaitlyn (16:56):
Then it turns out she wasn't coming back to Canada for
like five months and I was like, great, now we have to keep a
spark going through Instagram.
But we ended up FaceTiming allthe time and talking all the
time and then we met as soon asshe came back in.
Like a week after that, sheliterally moved in and we
started dating.
(17:16):
Two years later we're engagedthere's the lesbian stereotype.
Joey (17:19):
Yep, there it is.
We fit the stereotype.
Kaitlyn (17:22):
There's the u-haul yeah , she literally moved in before
we actually became girlfriends,so yeah, were you nervous the
first time you met her?
Joey (17:31):
I was so nervous where'd you go, what do you do?
Kaitlyn (17:36):
she's gonna hate that I told the story, but so she
comes over and you guys went towings, didn't you?
Joey (17:42):
no, you're like wings.
Kaitlyn (17:44):
We got chicken wings uh , she comes over and the plan
was we were gonna go and getsushi and we did that.
We just brought it back to mineto eat.
And then I had planned out Iwas like let's, I bought all the
ingredients to make cookies andeverything.
I thought this would be so cute.
And then she did just get backfrom Australia which is big time
(18:07):
change and she's like, oh, I'mkind of tired, like let's just
relax, and so we lay in the bedand literally she fell asleep
like not even 20 minutes laterand she slept for like two hours
.
So we always joke that she fellasleep on the first date.
Joey (18:23):
It's not where I thought this is going.
Kaitlyn (18:25):
I was like come to the bed she's like oh, I'm tired
from laying in your bed.
Oh, that's funny.
But yeah, then we woke up andwe actually went to the bar with
her friend, which is funny,because this first date, if it
was anyone but Sel I would havebeen like firstly you fell
(18:47):
asleep and now you want to go tothe bar with your friends.
Joey (18:49):
Literally.
I would be like.
This is not Meanwhile.
You're like preheating the ovenfor the cookies I'm making
cookies 350.
Kaitlyn (18:57):
So, yeah, it just worked out.
And then I think she slept overfor like four nights in a row
and we just we always jokesaying like we're still on our
first date, it's just neverended oh yeah, sal the napper,
yeah it was so funny, that's socute.
Joey (19:16):
Well, she must have felt very comfortable.
Yeah, for her to, like you know, in your place, like just take
a nap for just a cheeky littleone yeah, she's gonna hate us
for talking about.
Kaitlyn (19:26):
I know we've outed her to the world now that's okay,
it's what we do here that's whatwe do.
Joey (19:30):
We're all about honesty thanks for sharing your story
with sal you're welcome, yeah ifyou don't mind, I would love to
talk about your kind of comingout story and what that looked
like for you and that aspect ofyour journey.
How old were you?
You know who was the firstperson you came out to?
Kaitlyn (19:53):
yeah, let's kind it's kind of a two-part story.
So the first time I came out, Iguess, was 2019, that's five
years ago, so it's 25 wait, Idon't know.
Oh, so around 25, 25, 26 whycan't I do something?
Joey (20:15):
why did I think it was like 2019?
Kaitlyn (20:17):
because you said 2019 anyways, whatever I was, my 20
and basically I had just brokenup with my boyfriend and also
the thought of wanting to bewith a woman.
I'd been thinking about it foryears and years and years and at
(20:39):
that time I thought, you know,I was like oh what?
Like I might never get mychance, like what if this
relationship just goes onforever, like I just don't get
my chance?
So the relationship ended on,let's say, a Thursday and
Saturday night.
I seized my moment, like Iliterally didn't waste any time,
because I was like I've beenthinking about this moment for
(21:01):
so long and I just wanted to.
I just wanted to have my littleexperience.
And so, funny enough, I textedCatlin, your boyfriend, and I
said to him I'm sharing mylocation with you because I'm
going over to someone'sapartment.
Joey (21:20):
He always tells me the story.
He always tells me and he stillhas your location on it.
Kaitlyn (21:24):
Yeah, he does.
That's so funny, he alwayschecks where you are.
Where is she.
And you know, I didn't want to,um, I didn't want anything bad
to happen.
So anything bad to happen, so.
(21:47):
But funny enough, I had so manygay friends but I never, even
though I was feeling this wayand having these thoughts for so
many years, I never, ever once,opened up to them or confided
in them, because I just thoughtalso, this is something I want
to do for me, without a singleperson's input, before I do it,
kind of thing.
Joey (22:04):
Right.
And also, just test the water.
Kaitlyn (22:07):
Test the water Also.
I'm like what if I do thisthing?
And I'm like, no, that's notfor me, so no one even needs to
know.
Joey (22:12):
Right.
Kaitlyn (22:13):
But I yeah, I sent it to Kat.
I was like, oh, I'm just goingto this guy's house, um, here's
my location.
And um.
Joey (22:20):
You knew, I don't think so .
Kaitlyn (22:23):
I'm pretty sure he didn't, because when I finally
told him he's like what anyways?
Um, but yeah, and then I thinkI honestly don't even have a, a
big coming out moment to myfriends and stuff after that.
So there wasn't an exact momentthat I can recall.
That was a like a, so to say,serious coming out to my friends
(22:46):
.
But I think I just sent thepeople that I felt like I wanted
to tell a message that was likeoh my gosh, guess what I just
did last night, and that waskind of it Like last night, and
that was kind of it like.
And then from there I just kindof had a fun summer, would fill
them in on the details and Inever really had to like
(23:08):
formally come out to any of myfriends.
I feel there was someconversations with one of my
friends where he asked me sowhat is this like?
Are you gonna?
Are you gonna date a woman?
Like, where are you going withthis path that you're on?
And I'm pretty sure I said tohim something along the lines of
(23:28):
, well, I don't know, like the,you know, I'll probably never
date a woman, but I'm justhaving fun, but all this kind of
stuff.
And yeah, so it was very casualwith my friends and I always
felt like being bisexual I Ithink you should definitely
always be proud of who you are,no matter if you are a woman,
(23:51):
you marry a man or a woman.
Anything but for me, I justthought I'd rather not have this
conversation with my family ifit's, if I don't have to like if
I'm gonna fall in love with aman and marry him, I don't think
I need to tell my mom you justfeel like you don't need to make
(24:12):
it like this extraordinary,like over the top kind of like
you're drawing so much attentionto something that should
already like pre-approved andlike okay and like.
Joey (24:22):
By like drawing this attention to it, you can get
something that it doesn't needto be and you're except like
expecting a response exactlyhoping it's going to be positive
, but what if it's essentiallynot, so yeah I, I already know
kind of like where that is going.
Kaitlyn (24:38):
Yeah, and I always thought too, if I am going to
actually date a girl, then I'llneed to have a conversation with
my mom.
But then you know, as I said,maybe I'll never will and it's
just something we don't reallyneed to discuss.
And then I met Sel on Instagramand this is how serious I knew
(25:01):
my feelings for her were beforeI even physically met her in
person.
Us that I knew I had to comeout to my mom, but also I really
(25:26):
wanted it to be very casual andbecause the thought of doing
that, really I knew that shewould be okay with it, because I
have lots of gay friends,there's gay members of my family
Like I just I just knew itwasn't going to be a thing.
But also there's always thatlittle 1% fear that was in my
(25:47):
mind being like but what ifbecause?
I've heard stories and I knowpeople that their experience
coming out was not good.
So and I thought too you know Ikeep saying coming out to my
mom because I'm like she was theone person on earth that I
thought if she's not going toaccept me, then I care, you know
whereas everyone else, like I,couldn't care if anybody else on
(26:10):
earth was like, oh, you're gay,well, I can't have you in my
life.
I'd be like, okay, then get outof mine, like I don't want you
in my life anyways.
But for me my mom was the onewhere that would have broke me.
You know, I was like I cannot,and it's just, although I'm very
(26:30):
, very confident, or was veryconfident, she'd be okay with it
, it's still that fear.
When I decided I wanted to tellher, I wanted to make it a very
nonchalant, like I didn't wantto plan it because I knew if in
my head, okay, this Saturday I'mgoing to do it, then I would be
stressed for so long.
And I actually went for brunch,I think, maybe with Katlin,
actually, anyways, it doesn'tmatter.
(26:53):
And when I went home I wastalking to my mom and this is
three years ago now, but I wastalking to her on the phone and
then it just came into my headand I was like why don't I just
do it now?
Because if I do it now, it'sover in the next five minutes,
otherwise I'm going to hang upthe phone.
It's still going to be on mymind that I didn't do it.
(27:14):
I'm just going to think aboutit, that I want to do it and all
this stuff.
So my mom was finishing theconversation and she's like okay
, well, I'm going to go and blah, blah, blah.
And I was like mom and she'slike yeah, and I was like and I
was just quiet because I'm likeI've started it now and she's
like what is it?
I need to tell you something.
And then, of course, my momstarts worrying what is it?
(27:37):
What it?
And I was like ah, and I justcouldn't find the words.
And instantly I'm sweating,like, and also this is over the
phone.
I think I said that.
But and then I was just likeI'm bisexual, so that means I
like girls too.
Joey (27:51):
Because I was like I don't know, I don't know what she
knows.
She's like um, what's that?
Kaitlyn (27:56):
and I just immediately started crying because I just
feel like that relief yeah, andalso it.
It honestly felt like a feverdream, like having that
conversation with my mom, likeand it was just, she was very
lovely, like and we talked aboutit for probably 20 minutes,
like she asked all the rightquestions and but yeah, I know
(28:17):
she hung up and she wentstraight to Google.
Joey (28:20):
What does this mean?
Kaitlyn (28:22):
um, but yeah, like it was, and for probably like an
hour after two I was like crying.
Oh, I think I know why I wantedto tell her that moment,
because that's the first nightactually I FaceTime sell as well
so actually I told her so likeyour, like hormones and vibes
were so high that you'reprobably like this isn't.
Joey (28:41):
It's now like you're like I'm in a great spot like.
I feel good, my serotonin'sboosted exactly so.
Kaitlyn (28:47):
And then, yeah, I remember I hung up for my mom
and I immediately texted cell,also, I think, because I really
wanted something with cell.
I didn't want her to think, oh,she's not even out yet, anyways
.
So like I felt like I needed toprove that I'm for real kind of
thing, you know.
Joey (29:06):
So that you were serious.
Kaitlyn (29:08):
I'm serious yeah, and immediately after I texted cells
, like oh, I just came out to mymom, the phone starts calling
and I was like this is our firsttime facetiming, my eyes are
puffy.
I was like I declined the call.
I was like I need like an hourto get ready and whatever.
And then that was it.
And then everyone else like Ijust thought I don't care.
(29:29):
I said to my mom too I was likeyou can go and tell whoever you
want, do whatever you want withthat information.
I was like I just I don't care.
And like how I told my brother,I just I told him a lot later,
like when Sal and I were in arelationship, I just called him
and I was like, oh, I justwanted you to hear from me, but
I have a girlfriend.
So, and he was like, oh, okay,like it was just, it was very
(29:50):
chill and anyone else?
I just yeah, like I just don'tcare, like thankfully there's
been no one who has had an issuewith it.
But if I ever did come acrossthat, then to me I'm just like
okay, well then, just don't bein my life, because you're quite
literally the kind of person Iwouldn't want to associate with
anyways.
Joey (30:10):
So well, it looks like you've got a good network, good
support system thankfully yesyeah and um, you have the right
mindset of basically who youwant to have will respect your
decisions and you want to keepthem around vice versa, so I
applaud that.
Kaitlyn (30:26):
Thank you.
Joey (30:28):
Yeah, one question I do have is is there anyone that you
told that was shocked, or likewas like oh, you're gay.
Is there anyone that likesticks out in your head, like
you don't obviously name them,but like gay?
Is there anyone that likesticks out in your head, like
you don't obviously name them,but like is there an experience
that you had that?
Like you were like oh, that'snot what I was expecting.
Kaitlyn (30:44):
When they were like I think, I think my mom actually,
was one, yeah because, well, Ithink I gave no hints to anybody
.
You know, I, I, I kepteverything completely inside,
like I, like I said, I didn'teven tell my gay friends like.
Hey, I'm kind of thinking aboutthis.
I kept a hundred percent of thethoughts to myself and I'm also
(31:09):
you know stereotypically whatyou would think of when you
think of just a straight girl,you know like.
So I think a lot of people wereshocked like no one totally and
like.
Joey (31:23):
Also like, knowing, like your past history of like you
coming out of long-termrelationships with boys and like
and men or whatever.
So, um, I feel that that mightcloud people's expectation of
the new coming out as bisexual.
So, um, that's kind of where Iwas pointing the question out
more.
So that is like where peoplepeople probably weren't
(31:45):
expecting it.
Um, again, um, reflecting whatyou said and what I said earlier
in the podcast was you don'ttypically have this
stereotypical, outlined lesbianlook to you physically and I
know that looks different foreveryone.
So if I saw you in the street Iwouldn't, you know, necessarily
(32:08):
know that you were a part ofthe queer community on first
approach yeah, you know, and Iknow that like is again like
probably gonna get me in troublefor saying maybe I don't know,
like, say it.
Well, you know, I are like arewe allowed to like prejudge
someone and like identifysomeone as queer by just visibly
looking at them and not knowingthem or their backstory?
Kaitlyn (32:30):
I think, whether you're quote allowed to or not, like
people do and people will, yeah,but also I think it's sometimes
it's easy to tell who is queer,but then sometimes actually
surprisingly, this week there'sbeen three times where I've said
like something about you know,oh, this guy, and they're like,
(32:51):
oh, he's not gay, or likesomething I'm like, oh, so maybe
I should retract my wholestatement.
I actually have no gaydar, he'snot gay, you are Literally,
though.
Literally.
Joey (33:05):
Okay, so let's talk about potential challenges.
So do you feel like you faceany challenges or, I guess,
bumps in the road or somethingthat, like you know, you weren't
so familiar with identifying,as in quotations, a straight
female, straight female, versusnow coming into, like this
(33:32):
bisexual era, dating a woman andtaking on that identity?
What challenge, what challenges, if any, have you faced during
this kind of like transition in,like your identity?
Kaitlyn (33:40):
Well, I think for me, one of the challenges and it's
still something that ischallenging for me is again, I
don't want to contradict what Ijust said of if you have a
problem with me, then I don'tneed you in my life, but, for
example, in the workplace, myjob that I do is very like the
(34:02):
people that I work with or notwork with, but like our, our
customers.
Yes, they're of an oldergeneration and I just, you know,
they always ask me like on aweekly basis oh, you got a
boyfriend or a husband?
And I don't lie to them but I'mjust like no, I don't.
Joey (34:25):
Yeah, oh.
Kaitlyn (34:26):
I got a grandson that would just love you.
Oh fun, like whatever, but Ijust I don't feel the need to be
like, oh no, well, I supposenow I have a fiance, but back
then I wouldn't, I didn't feelthe need to be like, oh no, I
actually have a girlfriend, oryou know, only because I just
(34:47):
think it's.
I don't know, Firstly, it's notreally any of your business and
secondly, I just I don't need to.
I'm not here to try and changeyour opinions, but it is
something that I think for me, Ithe reason I say I see it as a
challenge is like, well, it'sjust something I never had to
face before, because if I go, doyou have a boyfriend?
Yeah, I do.
Actually, you know, or italmost feels like I'm not being
(35:11):
genuine in a sense.
And well, they'll be dead soon,so uh, I'm just kidding, I'm
kidding um no, um, I thinkthat's super fair as a challenge
.
Joey (35:26):
I think my only advice would be to and, and like this
is this me in no means does itmean you have to like, say like,
stick it to them and be likeI'm a lesbian or I'm bisexual.
I'm dating a woman like you know, like in no way do you need to
do that, or like I'm gay, or,you know, shove it in their face
.
But maybe I feel like for me,the best kind of like practice I
(35:47):
learned in customer service.
Obviously I scream gayespecially when I serve.
I don't serve, I serve.
I would always refer to Katlynas my partner and kept it very
like non-gender specific.
Kaitlyn (36:07):
Yeah.
Joey (36:08):
And for the very confused people and there there's a few
of them still out there um iethe older community would be
like oh well, she's a lucky girl, yeah and you know I kind of
find it humorous.
Now I'm like oh yes, she iscaitlin yeah, I should identify.
My partner is called caitlinyeah everyone calls him caitlin
(36:31):
because the eye is not confusingI mean visibly, I guess it
could be confusing but anyways,but yeah, I feel like, uh, my
advice to you would be, on thissetting of your, of your
workplace and customer serviceum, you could, you know, attempt
to say like refer to them asyour partner and customer
service um, you, could, you know, attempt to say like refer to
them as your partner and thatwould give them like an inkling
(36:53):
to go off of something ratherthan like you know like.
Kaitlyn (36:56):
Oh, no like.
Joey (36:57):
I have a partner or yeah, it's just I.
Kaitlyn (37:02):
Yeah, I do say the word partner sometimes, but then I
also this is a whole other thingis.
I also hate saying partnerbecause I'm like, well, not in
that context, but let's say likea completely different context.
Because if it was talking tothe older generation that I work
with, then I would, yeah, maybejust say that.
(37:23):
But if I'm just, you know,meeting a new coworker and I
don't, I I'd want to say, oh, meand my girlfriend did this this
weekend.
But then a lot of times theyinterpret that as, like, my
friend, that's a girl you know,but then?
but I'm like I don't want to saypartner because I'm proud to
(37:44):
have a girlfriend at that time.
No fiance, but you know.
So I feel like I'm getting loston what I'm saying.
No, that makes complete sense.
Joey (37:54):
That makes complete sense.
I never thought about that.
I mean obviously for theterminology boyfriend yeah boys,
don't throw that around likeI'm hanging out with the boys.
Kaitlyn (38:02):
Yeah, I'm hanging out with my boyfriends.
Joey (38:03):
Hang out with my boyfriends tonight, yeah you
know we're gonna go watch thebachelorette.
Uh that that guest never comesup in topic.
So like when I say my boyfriend, it's very clear that I have a
boy as a lifelong partner.
Or like I'm in a relationshipwith the same sex yeah, so I do?
Yeah, I can, I, I am gay.
(38:24):
I can see how it would beconfusing for other people to be
like girlfriend.
Kaitlyn (38:32):
So it's going to be interesting.
Like sometimes people do pickup when I say, or when I would
say, girlfriend, that I meanromantic.
But then it'll be interestingnow moving forward, like when I
get back to work and stuff,because I don't really see
people outside of my regularcircle when I'm not working.
But it'll be interesting when Isay, like, fiance, because
(38:52):
that's so gender neutral, newpeople that I'm meeting who
obviously don't know that I'mengaged to a woman, it's going
to be automatically, oh he,which I don't mind correcting
like peers.
But like if I say that tocustomers, I just know I'm going
to be like, oh sure, like Idon't know which, yeah it's just
(39:13):
yeah and I feel like yeah,otherwise opens like not a can
of worms, but like thatgenerational, like I roll.
Yeah.
Joey (39:21):
Almost and like not that they're disapproving of you I
don't think that's but likebecause they're like oh, I've
made a mistake and you know,you've got to.
Sometimes they get upset andthen you're like I'm sorry.
And I'm like it doesn't meanthat much to me but like it
could to someone.
So, like maybe you should justbe mindful that, like we're in a
new age and like people arequeer, and like dating same sex
(39:44):
now, and that might not havebeen a thing before.
People weren't as likecomfortable before right, I mean
totally like, even like thetimes and stuff.
It wasn't safe and yeah.
I recognize that, but I just,yeah, I understand that aspect
of your of your workplace mustbe difficult.
Okay, last question, if any,what advice would you give to
(40:06):
someone listening to the podcastthat might be exploring
same-sex relationships or notready to come out but just need
to be reassured that you knowtheir feelings are valid and
their emotions are valid andwhat they're going through is
pretty normal.
Kaitlyn (40:27):
So if you have anything you want to add, yeah, I would
say to do everything on your ownterms.
And I think for me that's whyyou know, I chose to not even
talk about it with my um, myfriends, like gay or straight.
So I was just like I didn'twant a single input because it's
(40:49):
kind of, you know it, it reallydid change the whole trajectory
of my life.
So I'm like I wanted to makesure exploring this side of me
was 100% what I was ready to do,wanting to do and just know
that I was, I was ready to makethat decision.
So I think, for anybody who'syou know, maybe bi-curious or,
(41:16):
you know, questioning like, am Igay, am I not gay, or all these
things, I just think you knowkind of doing that
self-exploration and takingyourself on your own journey.
But then also I do believe inconfiding with those people
around you, cause, looking backon you know my life before, um,
I'm very blessed to have had,you know, a number of gay
(41:38):
friends and I I do wish now,looking back, I'm like why
wouldn't I have?
Just like you know, I had somany questions and you know,
there would have.
I had such a a community presentto me that I didn't even take
advantage of um.
So if you do have friends youknow, gay or straight, like
somebody that you can reallytrust and you know that you can
(41:59):
feel confident and safeconfiding in them, then I think
that's also really good um.
But if you feel like it's ajourney that you're happy to
navigate yourself, like I was,until you're sure of yourself,
then that's okay too yeah,that's, that's awesome.
Joey (42:17):
Yeah, that resonates with me a lot yeah and like I feel
that, like you took the road youtook to ensure that exactly how
you were feeling was authentic,oh no, authentic authentically
yes, yourself yes, um, ratherthan having, like outsiders,
(42:38):
opinions and people kind of likeweighing in on it and you know
bringing up, like pastrelationships or other things
which could be conflicting again, like this confusing bisexual
background you've got that,you're like, ah, like I don't
know, like is it men, is itwomen?
Like I think?
at the end of the day, like whatit really comes down to is,
like who you are with in thepresent, and today is where you
(43:00):
want to be today or where yousee your future or however that
might be, and like that mightchange.
Like you know, like absolutely.
It doesn't mean that, likeyou're gay forever, that doesn't
mean you're, you know, withthis one person forever, or
you're this sex forever, becauseyou know we're advancing as
like humans and we're we're.
A lot is becoming available tous and as we navigate that, I
(43:21):
feel like we're really blessedto live in this time where we
are able to be who we want to beyeah, quite literally, be who
we want to be and be who with wewant to be yeah, absolutely.
Kaitlyn (43:33):
I think one thing I want to throw out there, for the
bi community as well, is the bibabies.
The bi babies.
Just from what I've heard, andfrom myself too, we're all very
we're not all, but a lot of usare guilty of the you know
thinking, you know who you'regoing to end up with you know,
oh, but I'll marry a man, kindof thing, or all those things.
(43:57):
And it makes you question allthis stuff.
And I remember somebody oncesaid to me well, I feel like you
kind of need to know, likegoing into something like, are
you wanting to marry a man orare you wanting to marry a woman
?
Like you?
You probably know what you'relooking for.
And I remember I was like, well, how can you know who you'll
(44:19):
end up with until you fall inlove with that person?
And I think that kind of cutsby people, a little bit of slack
of feeling, so much pressure ofyou know, when you like both
men and women, it's it cancreate all this confusion.
And you know it's sometimes,yeah, it's just confusing.
But then if you just giveyourself that bit of grace and
(44:42):
think you don't, you don't needto plan who you're going to
marry in 5, 10, 15 years, it'sjust let life go and you just
marry who you're going to marryin 5, 10, 15 years.
It's just let life go and youjust marry who you fall in love
with.
Joey (44:51):
Live in the present.
Kaitlyn (44:52):
Yeah, live in the present, Be who you are and see
where the life takes you.
Joey (44:57):
Everything will fall into place.
Yeah, it will.
Kaitlyn (45:01):
It always does.
Joey (45:03):
Well, that brings us to the end of the episode.
Thank you for being here.
Kaitlyn (45:07):
Thank you, joey, I've had a great time.
Joey (45:09):
yeah, yep, gay old time an emotional hangover tomorrow
yeah thanks for sharing yourjourney and your experiences and
giving you know a wealth ofknowledge on um just being by
and open possibilities forpotentially people listening.
Sharing that last little pieceof advice that I know that maybe
(45:30):
one person that listens to willsee value in I hope so maybe
add it.
Maybe add it to their, theirjourney.
The best thing about thispodcast is everyone's journey is
different and no two queerpeople are the same and I think
that's what we're recognizinghere really quickly.
Is that like it's not linear?
yeah, no yeah and like.
(45:50):
What's important is that, like,everyone's experience is valid
and should be recognized andsupported, and you know, getting
over that hump sometimes is thehardest thing to do.
So, yeah, well, thank you forbeing here I appreciate your
time.
Always, welcome back.
I'll be back, I think.
Cells on the list.
Oh yes, maybe we listen to herstory and she's like, yeah, this
(46:12):
bitch was just messaging me oninstagram all the time sending
me the reaction stories toeverything and I was just like
and remember, I'm not a napperyou are, you are that's funny.
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