September 26, 2024 • 32 mins
What if the friends you made in childhood subtly influenced the person you would become? Join me, Joey, as I share my deeply personal journey to understanding and embracing my sexuality. From my early years surrounded by female friends to my conscious avoidance of traditionally masculine spaces, the path to self-discovery has been anything but straightforward. This episode digs into the age-old debate of nature versus nurture, offering my thoughts and inviting you to reflect on your own experiences. Through honest reflections, I hope to shed light on the unique struggles and triumphs faced in coming out and embracing one's true self.
Step into the secretive world of online dating and self-discovery as I recount the exhilarating yet anxiety-filled experience of using Grindr for the first time. The challenges of maintaining discretion within a close-knit community and the emotional hurdles of identifying sexual preferences are laid bare. My narrative crescendos with the life-changing move to Manchester and the heartfelt moment of coming out to my best friend, Sam. This episode promises an honest and heartfelt conversation about the complexities of seeking acceptance and the courage it takes to live authentically. Tune in for a raw and intimate exploration of the journey to self-acceptance.
Follow the show on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/imnotgayyouarepodcast/
Stay tuned bi weekly (Wednesday) for a new episode from I'm not gay, you are
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey (00:14):
Welcome back to another episode of I'm Not Gay.
You Are with your host, joey.
That is me.
Thanks for being here andthanks for tuning in being here
and thanks for tuning in,alrighty.
So today I want to talk to youabout coming out and the
struggles people may face.
Maybe they're not ready Today.
(00:34):
All I can speak on is myexperience and my story,
alrighty.
So not everything that you hearon this podcast or not
everything you see on theinternet or instagram profiles
definitely social media.
I feel that there is this powerseeing people confident in
(00:59):
their sexuality and who they aretoday and and I wasn't always
as confident, as comfortablewith who I am today, maybe like
five or 10 years ago.
So I definitely want to talkabout my coming out story and my
journey and how that has mademe who I am today and who I am
(01:20):
proud to be today, am today andwho I am proud to be today.
So I want to talk early yearsand start very young.
Were we born gay or are wenurtured into being gay?
(01:41):
And, to be honest, I don'treally know the answer.
I don't.
I love to ask people thisquestion and I had a recent
conversation with my partnerabout it and I was like you know
, like, do you think that we'reborn gay?
Or do you think that you knowwe develop these qualities and
like, like men or same sexcoupling because of the way we
were nurtured and brought up andlike?
Or maybe you know something wasmissing in our childhood or
(02:01):
something we had tooured andbrought up and like.
Or maybe you know something wasmissing in our childhood or
something we had too much of inour childhood, or maybe it was
the food we ate and all the thebad stuff in the kool-aid that
we were drinking.
Um, I, I you know what.
I think about this a lot.
Truly, I I'm not sure what theanswer is and I don't need to
(02:23):
know.
I just like to get people'sperspective on things and I like
to understand what theirthoughts are, because it's quite
enlightening listening tosomebody else's point of view
and it really like it almostjust changes yours for a second
and like you're like, oh damn, Inever thought about that way,
or that's really interesting toto hear or to understand.
(02:47):
Like I never would haveexpected that or understood that
.
So I think, when it comes tonature being, we are born this
way, or nurture being we are, weare developed into being gay.
I don't know, I think it's 5050 if I'm going to be honest,
(03:09):
and I know that sits on thefence and it's not super
controversial.
But hear me out, let's startfrom the beginning, in school.
So primary school, elementary,whatever you call it, junior
high, I don't know, but for meit was primary school.
I was very young and before Iwent into high school I only
ever had girlfriends, only evergirls, like no guys.
(03:33):
The guys that I was friendswith were maybe just in passing,
there were just other studentsand I wouldn't call them friends
like.
The girls that I hung aroundwith were my solid, you know,
core six girls and we'd go toeach other's houses, we'd hang
out on the street, which is justlike our cul-de-sac, or you
(03:56):
know.
And I never really got alongwith boys like I, never.
I just I didn't like them.
I don't't know.
Did I find them intimidating?
Probably, yeah, like theycalled me gay and a bunch of
shit, you know.
So I felt that I never reallygot along with guys.
Period, that's it really.
(04:18):
Um, now, being who I am today, Ifeel very confident and
comfortable with my sexuality.
I couldn't care less.
I don't see men as like scaryor me as inferior to them in any
way.
But I definitely, when I was akid, like I didn't play soccer
or football or whatever you wantto call it, um, rugby or
(04:40):
honestly I didn't play anysports.
I definitely pulled out myinhaler every PE class and was
like, no, thank you, I'masthmatic, I can't run.
And the teacher was like, okay,joe, I definitely chose to not
surround myself with with likemasculine or male figures in my
(05:02):
life.
I definitely, like was drawn tomore of like female energy and
just I guess their company andthat kind of plays a part in why
I think that I was nurturedinto being gay was because I
took on maybe a lot of feminineenergy, because that's all I
kind of like knew being aroundgrowing up for the first 10
(05:23):
years, 15 years of my life.
You know, the nature part wouldjust be me being born this way
and I grew up to be who I amtoday, which there's always, you
know, a very high possibility.
That's the case too.
I just believe that all of ourdecisions and things that we do
(05:45):
as a child obviously impact usgrowing up.
There is a nurturing part tobeing gay and liking same-sex in
my experience, and that's whatI want to preference here is
this is my experience and myopinion.
You might have a completelydifferent opinion and a
different experience to me, andyou hung around with all boys
(06:09):
and you're, you're still gay.
Well damn, maybe you'rebreaking my, my thought process
and maybe that makes more sensetoo, because you hung around
with men all the time, so youwere like, oh damn, like I want
to sleep with you, or maybe not,I don't know, that's my nature
versus nurture argument.
I'm 50, 50.
(06:30):
I actually have no idea, but Iwould love if you would like to
write in and tell me yourthoughts on your experience and
and what you think makes us gaytoday, because it's a very
interesting piece.
Right, like, I don't know, isit the tv shows we watched?
Because, god, I love charmedgrowing up and that's just about
(06:52):
three witches and all theirboyfriends.
So, uh, the cw network, love,you call me um daytime tv, oh
yeah, and everyone else iswatching, like football, and
like it's the World Cup, theFIFA World Cup, and I'm like, oh
my god, I want me to go seePiper and Leo, see if they get
(07:14):
back together.
The real Charmed fans will know.
Okay, going back to my earlyyears I believed that.
So in elementary school,primary school, junior high,
high school, whatever you wantto like call all of these, these
(07:36):
are like the younger yearsbefore you're in high school I
remember having a lot of likegirlfriends and not really any
guy friends, actually any guyfriends.
I just usually hang out withthe girls.
I felt a little intimidated byguys and not too not too sure
(07:57):
how to like interact with them.
I hated PE, I didn't like anysports.
I so like on a masculine level,I wasn't really connected into
my masculine side.
Obviously.
Um, most of the girls I wouldjust hang around with them and
sit with them in class and stuffand that's just kind of like my
life day to day.
(08:18):
I was very much like.
You know what.
Thinking about this now it'skind of making me cringe.
All my teachers and like alllike they're like my friends.
Moms used to be like oh, you'relike a ladies man, aren't you?
And oh, you got all the girlsyou like.
You should share my some tipsto my son.
And da, da, da, da.
(08:38):
I'm like yeah, little do theyknow.
I'm like, leave me alone.
Moving into, like high schoolwhen I was like pre-adolescent,
um, I don't remember having anylike sexual urges towards men or
women, to that.
(08:59):
To that point I feel like I waslike I was pretty much a late
bloomer and I don't remember.
I don't remember, um, lookingat like men and being like
sexually attracted to them orlike idolizing them or like you
know, girls being like, oh, he'scute, he's cute, what do you
think of him?
You know they wouldn't kind oflike include me and like that's,
(09:19):
that's okay, like I, I guess,like at the time, like I wasn't
really sure and like I didn'treally know like what my path
was or like where I wanted to beor who I wanted to be with.
And when I moved back to EnglandI did get into a relationship,
uh with a girl, um, and I wasabout 22 years old, I got into a
(09:41):
relationship with a girl and wedated, like you could say dated
uh, for eight months and butlike we had a good sex life.
I think like it was like prettynormal.
Honestly, I don't really know,like I don't really know how to
like it was.
(10:01):
We were pretty active.
Should I say like, but, um, Iknew long term.
Should I say like, but, um, Iknew long term that it wasn't
what I wanted.
Towards the end of thatrelationship, I was like this
doesn't feel right.
Like this, this person wastrying to like make me something
that I'm not, unfortunately,and I'm sorry to say that out
loud.
But yeah, after my relationshipwith that person, I took some
(10:27):
time for myself and Irecuperated and I was like,
honestly, I think, deep down, Iknew that I was like I want to
explore something new and, ohgod, let's get into the
nitty-gritty of things and noone am I, I hadn't told anyone,
(10:48):
I hadn't said anything to anyone, no one knew.
And it was kind of like a turnon like that, no one.
I mean like I'm saying like noone knew, but I'm like walking
around the streets with my highheels on and my rainbow flag
being like, yay, girls, no, I, Iwasn't, I wasn't.
(11:08):
I'm joking, I'm joking.
But at the time I came up withthis relationship with a girl
and, um, I wanted to seek, um, Iguess, like sexual relations
with with someone, but I, I knewI didn't want to be with a girl
(11:28):
long-term and I didn't want tobe with a girl and like, sure,
the sex was like okay, but likeI, just I felt like I needed
some like to level up.
I was like I need to level upin some way and like I know that
this isn't right for me.
So, like, okay, how do I moveinto like this like man era?
How do I look, how do I, how doI like know what I'm looking
(11:49):
for in a man like you know?
Like where do I start?
Like where do I be?
Like oh, that man is hot.
Like what's my type at thispoint, like you know.
So I devilishly downloadedGrindr and from there I had a
complete blank profile.
I had no name on there.
(12:10):
I used a fake email address andeverything because I was scared
it was going to link to mypersonal email address and send
me spam, or someone would seesomething or someone that I knew
that was going to be on there,and they were going to be like,
oh my God, like you're gay, likewe knew it, or you know, like I
(12:30):
don't know.
I just I think that was soworrisome for me.
I was so worried that someonewas going to out me before I was
ready.
So I just went on with a blankprofile photo and I didn't have
any, I guess, intention.
I just I wanted to know what itfelt like to talk to a man
sexually, you know, because it'sa whole new ballpark and like
(12:54):
that's.
That was like the first likestep for me to like
understanding what I wanted andwho I, who I was becoming.
So I I did, I downloaded Grindrand I made this, this fake
account, or I don't account, orI don't want to say fake account
because but you weren't gettingmuch from me, sorry.
Like people were like send uspic or pic question mark, and I
(13:15):
was like, grow up, like you'renot getting that.
So, yeah, I was on Grindr andif you don't know, grindr goes
off your location.
So, um, it will show you theclosest um person that has an
account active to you and itcould be, and it tells you like
(13:36):
how far away they are indistance by meters.
And I was so scared I logged onand it shows up, it pulls the
grid up and I was like, holyfuck, there's so many men on
here and you know some profilesare fake, some aren't, some are
real, some are, you know, yourtype, some are not your type,
some are like there's the whole.
(13:58):
It's a whole new world for me atthis point and I was like kind
of overwhelmed and I was scaredbecause it was now showing that
this blank profile had just likeuploaded, this recently new
profile had uploaded and it was,you know, very close to other
people.
So you know, I was scared thatwhat's in my neighborhood if
there was a gay person and I waslike, oh no, they're gonna know
(14:20):
it's me somehow, because theyknow that I live, like, I know,
600 meters away from them andlike'm clearly, like they know,
at this point they're gonna know.
And, like you know, they knowthat I'm 180 centimeters tall.
Just kidding.
But, like, for anyone who knowsthese, the platform like it
gives you the, the, the heightof the user, and like the eye
(14:43):
color and the hair color and itgets into the nitty gritty stuff
you know.
So, um, but I remember askingme when I was making my profile
too.
It was like you know, yourpreference and at the time it
was um, passive or um dominant,I think, or top, or, I can't
remember, dominant, I think, ortop.
(15:06):
I can't remember it wasn'tbottom or top, it was passive,
um or or or dominant.
And I was like, oh my god, Idon't know what that means.
And I remember, like I can'teven google it because I'm
scared that it'll like get stuckin my google searches or like I
want a shared family plan, likegood god, and the last thing I
want is my dad being like tornapart for like googling, like
(15:28):
passive or dominant positiontype anyways.
So I just I clicked preference,rather not say because I wasn't
sure at that point, oh gosh,I'm spilling too much anyways.
So at this point I had.
Then I made this a profile and Iwas talking to people and they
(15:50):
were like, oh, you're gonna sendus a picture, you know, like
show us who you are.
And I noticed guys wouldquickly drop the conversation if
I wouldn't share a photo of me,which is totally fair.
Like who wants to talk to ablank profile?
No one, like I totallyunderstand.
I just wasn't there yet.
So I I went offline and andthen I, as I started going back
(16:15):
online to like this app andstuff, to like you know talking
to.
At this point I feel like I wasjust like making friends with
people like, and they didn'tknow who I was, but it was just
more so me overcoming that fearof talking to another guy and
like especially another, anothergay guy, like a gay man or
someone that like could beattracted to me, because that
would just attract all thisunwanted attention for me that I
was scared of having but wantedto really deep dive and like,
(16:38):
feel and look into.
Honestly, I feel like this issuch an internalized problem,
but I feel like this isstandardized.
I feel like people go through.
This is like your identitycrisis, right, like this is you
being?
Like, oh my god, am I gay?
Like, do I like men?
Um, so I, at this point I hadrealized that people didn't want
(17:01):
to talk to me unless I I hadGoogled.
I went onto Google and I hadgrabbed some like random photos
of some like random dudes likenothing special to look at, just
like, so it'd get me past the Ineed a photo test.
So I then had upload them toGrindr and I said that they were
(17:24):
these people, this person wasme.
I didn't put them on my profilestill a blank profile but when
are like, can you send us aphoto of yourself?
Like, just so?
I'm not talking to a blankscreen.
I'd be like, yeah, sure, andthat would keep the conversation
going, you know, minus the factthey're like oh, you've got
nice eyes and your hair is cuteand you're, oh, you're blonde.
I love blondes.
I'm not blonde and I don't havecute eyes, so score, um, but I
(17:48):
think I just chose this, like aperson or like you know, this
profile that I was like kind ofdidn't represent me anyway, so I
wouldn't, they wouldn't, Iwouldn't imagine them talking to
me, being like I don't knowanyways.
So, um, I then from there, Ifelt confident just talking to
(18:09):
guys and I was that was awesome,like.
I felt like that was you know,um, I was getting a little more
confident and I then decided toput my own photos on Grindr.
Um, and I at this point I hadn'tput them on the profile cause,
still, I wasn't coming out topeople.
(18:29):
This is still very much insecret.
I was just talking to theseguys and I was like oh, like,
and I would target people totalk to too that were like
clearly not also out or likecomfortable and like discussing
like their sexual activity andstuff like via like, because
that way then it would likeprotect me too, because they
wouldn't out me and I wouldn'tout them, and that's kind of how
(18:50):
it was and honestly, it waskind of a vicious cycle because
I feel like for the next likeyear and a half, two years, I
would hook up or, um, you know,talk with these people online,
knowing that it will never beanything, but that way that
would protect my secret, becausethey don't want to come out and
they would never come out or,uh, say they were temporary in
(19:15):
town or something, and it wouldjust kind of be like a one night
stand or something, but thatway it would protect my secret a
little bit longer.
Um, so, yeah, that was that.
And from there, I remember myfirst time making out with a guy
, um, and this person, when I,like I'd I'd been talking to
(19:38):
them for a while, um, they sawmy real photos.
Um, they lived in like the nextcity from me, um, back home in
england and I had a car, so theyhad their own place.
There was a bit of an age gap.
Sorry, if you're listening, uh,I want to say like, maybe, like
four years, maybe, but likefour years might seem like
(20:03):
nothing, but when you're like 23or 22 or whatever, or I think I
was like 20, maybe I wasyounger than that, I don't know
um, but like, when you're thatyoung, like four years feels
like an eternity.
Um, so I felt like this personwas a lot more mature than me
and I felt like they could likeguide me and like kind of like,
(20:25):
you know, if they were like goodto me and stuff, this could be
like a regular thing or um, Icould just like be comfortable
with who I wanted to be, butlike behind closed doors, behind
their bedroom closed door, um,ew, um.
So, yeah, I went to go meetthat person for the first time
(20:49):
and I'd finished work I think Ihad like a late shift or
whatever and I went home,showered and then my mom was
like, oh, like I guess they werein bed, but like she was like,
are you going out?
And I was like, oh, it was likemidnight.
I was like, yeah, I'm justgonna go for a night drive.
She was like, okay, cool, bye.
And like that's what I did lovemy parents was.
(21:11):
They were, they were not likebreathing on my neck all the
time.
They let me do what I wanted todo.
And like the age of the age of22,.
Like they're like, ah, leavehim to it.
So as long as you drive thespeed limit, put your seatbelts
on Right, um.
So I went to this guy's houseand from there, um, nothing kind
of like happened.
There was no, like you know,there was no touching, there was
(21:34):
no like engagement of anysexual activity.
Um, he was very patient it'ssuper nice and he knew that I
was being super awkward and,like I was very uncomfortable.
So, um, it took me like 20minutes to go and sit on the
couch.
I'm like why am I being such afreak?
But you know, I felt like, oh,that's just my experience for
(21:56):
you.
But, um, we did share a kiss, um, that night, and all I remember
, and it's ingrained into myhead, was the feeling of stubble
on my face and I was like, ow,wait a minute, what the fuck is
(22:21):
that?
I was like that feels horrible.
Like I've only at this pointever kissed like women, and like
I didn't have stubble either, Idon't think, or maybe a little
bit, but like, because currentlyI have a beard, but like I've
(22:42):
always had a beard, but I didn'tthink I had much of a beard
when I was that young.
So, maybe a little bit, butlike I remember actually leaving
because we had a kiss and then,like a kiss kiss, you know,
like a good one, like a long oneand a nice one, it felt good,
it felt right, it was nice.
But I remember leaving andgetting to my car and scratching
(23:03):
my face because, like my chinarea was so freaking scratchy
and I was like what they?
And I was like what the hell?
And I looked in the mirror andI turned my little car light on
and I was like, oh, and I hadthis red rash all over my face
and it was from his beard,touching, I guess, like my beard
, and the friction was likescratching me and I've never
felt that before.
And I remember when he firstput his like lips on mine and
(23:25):
his beard touched my face, I waslike I like wanted to pull back
and he was like, is everythingokay?
And I was like, um, yes, Ithink question mark, like I
guess that's normal, I gotta getused to that.
So, yeah, I guess most peopledon't think about that, but I
never thought about it eitherand when it happened I was very
caught off guard.
(23:46):
But yeah, so after that, uh, welike regularly met up and stuff
and I felt like very comfortablewith this person and from there
, um, the relationship slowlystarted to like break down, like
it was just becoming moreinconsistent and my work
schedule wasn't meeting theirwork schedule.
(24:07):
You know how it is.
So I really wanted to see whatwas out there and experiment.
I did that through variouschannels on Grindr, and I was
able to, you know, connect andmeet up with people and you know
, sometimes it's coffee,sometimes it was, you know, a
day, sometimes one night stand,um, and then, moving forward, a
(24:28):
couple years later I did move toManchester, the city of, and,
um, it was a little bit moreaccessible in like the community
of like gay people um, theyhave like the gay village there
and stuff, and I would go outclubbing and I'd never kissed a
guy in a club or public, foreven that matter at this point.
So, um, at this point I was like, oh, like you know, I I don't
(24:51):
know whether I can do this and II was like this isn't like you
know, and I would go to gayclubs to feel like people were
staring at me and like wanted meand attention and stuff, and I
could look back, but I wouldnever like signal that, you know
(25:12):
, like anything, any interest,because I was scared they would
come over and talk to me and Iwouldn't know how to like handle
the situation in public with myfriends there, or you know.
So I was.
It was kind of like a, like areally psychotic game, if I'm
going to be honest, like I feellike it's not really it wasn't
very healthy, but I guess we alldo it.
We all, we all seek attentionand affection, right?
So, yeah, um, I had I'd madethe decision then to grab my
(25:36):
best friend Sam, and I think Ijust like had enough and I
really wanted to like just tellher and you know, tell someone
at least and it had to be mybest friend.
So, um, I remember she wasfinishing work and I text her
and it was really laid out, andshe was like what's going on?
And I was like I just reallyneed to talk to you?
And she was like, okay, I'llcome pick you up.
(25:57):
So she drives to my house, shepicks me up and we're driving
around and I haven't said oneword and I haven't even brought
up like what I want to talkabout.
Um, she hasn't even asked mebecause she knows how
uncomfortable I am with whateverthis, you know, problem is.
I want to bring up Um and shejust stops the car and we start
(26:21):
talking and she's like what'sgoing on?
Like you know, like you'rescaring me, like is everything
okay and I'm like, yeah, likeeverything's fine, and I feel
like I shouldn't have to do this, but I but I want to.
I want to verbalize this to youand I need to say it out loud
so like I can hear myself say itand you can hear me say it.
But I was like like Sam, I, I, Ilike men and like I think, I
(26:44):
think I like is that okay?
And she was like, she was like,oh, joe, she's like like we, of
course it's okay, and like we,we knew honey, and I'm like, no,
like I'm saying I know, youknow, but like, okay, I've, you
know, been hooking up with menand seeing men and like on
(27:06):
Grindr and da, da, da, da, and Ifelt like I started crying and
I for me, like I really don'tcry like very often I was so
overwhelmed with emotion and Ijust felt so like happy to like
just get it off my chest andlike I felt like relieved to
tell someone, um, and she wasjust like oh, it's okay, like
(27:28):
you, like you know, like like Ilove you, no matter what, and
like like we kind of alreadyknew and stuff, like it's, it's
no big deal, but like I'm sohappy that you're able to like
open up and tell me and likeactually share, like your
experience with me and stuff,and God knows she had a lot of
questions.
Oh, let me tell you, let metell you, let me tell you.
(27:51):
She's like, does it hurt?
I'm like, oh, that, that is,that is.
That's not the first question,honey, that's not.
We're not asking, I'm notanswering that one.
Um, so, yeah, I felt relievedand this was, it was such a
success from in my mind.
Um, I remember we were drivingback in her car and I was like
my eyes were like tear filledand like my face was sticky from
(28:12):
like this, the tears that havecome down my face or whatever.
Uh, and we're driving over thislittle bridge and like going
back to my house.
It's like two o'clock in themorning, pitch black outside,
and we're just driving around ina little ford ka and if you, it
was really cute and small andcompact, but really small and
British, and she just puts onLady Gaga, born this way, and
(28:35):
she's like sing it.
Honey, I'm like I love you.
It was like the most sensitivesituation that you somehow
desensitized for me and it wasgreat, honestly, and we still
talk about it to this day.
It's so funny and that songwill come on and she'll be there
and she's like you remember andI'm like I remember and she's
(28:57):
like this is your song, honey,take it away classic.
So that was me coming out to mybest friend and that was the
first person I came out to.
After that it was like a rollingeffect and I came out to a
couple of the friends and Imessaged you know a, a text
message one of my friends and Isaid we need to talk and she
FaceTimed me and we had aconversation there and she was
(29:17):
like we knew it's okay.
A lot of people that's kind oflike their response.
They're like we already know,like we know who you are, and
like we know you and like we, we, we love you.
(29:39):
So like that was.
That was that I think thehardest part for me was just
like it almost feels when you,when you're telling, when you're
telling someone for the firsttime, it feels that it's wrong
and that's why I think Istruggled so hard with it was
because it felt that when I wastelling people that I was gay,
that I, that it was wrong andthat it was, it was ill of me or
that like why, like the factthat we have to like tell people
that we're gay or like come outis like so poor, like why
(30:04):
should we?
Why do we have to do that?
Like it's like, you know, whengay people always say, like oh,
straight people don't have tocome out to their parents, like
they're right, kind of, in a way, like we shouldn't have to have
, like you know, the rainbowconfetti and rainbow smiles cake
because we're like, oh, look,uh, joey's gay, let's bring out
the cake.
Like there shouldn't be like aparty because I'm, because I'm
(30:26):
coming out as gay.
I mean it's nice, don't get mewrong and it's cute and it's
very thoughtful, but like it's alittle insensitive.
I feel that nice, don't get mewrong, and it's cute and it's
very thoughtful, but like it's alittle insensitive.
I feel that we don't really needto have this big old party, big
old gay party.
Because I like the same sex,right.
(30:48):
I don't see value in givingsame sex, right.
I don't see value in giving,having to give this huge speech
or, like you know, telling thesepeople that you like love and
like making it such a big deal.
It should just be like you getto bring home your partner and
that's you know.
It doesn't matter of like whattheir gender is Like.
(31:09):
That's the whole point of thisis you should be able to bring
home whoever you want to bringhome and like if you're in a
relationship, you're in arelationship.
If you're not, you're not.
Like, like you know, or ifyou're experimenting, or
whatever you're doing orwhatever parting life you are,
you should be able to, to feelcomfort and that's who you get
to be with.
It shouldn't really be up toanybody else and we shouldn't
(31:34):
have to seek approval for ourrelationships.
If that's where we want to bein that present moment, right,
and that's who we want to bewith.
But I know everyone's experienceis different and I know
everyone's situations are alsodifferent, so I don't want to
talk about you know as a whole.
I definitely think that's myopinion and my values and I know
(31:58):
that that's not the way it canbe for everyone, but I wish it
could be.
I wish it could be that way.
But that's uh, that's my comingout story and that's kind of my
two cents there on natureversus nurture and I definitely
will like bring these questionsup to like guests and stuff and
just get their opinions.
So in the future I definitelywant to discuss that more with
(32:19):
people that come on the show andjust like kind of get their
opinion on.
Like you know, did somethingmake you gay or do you feel like
you were born gay?
But I want to thank you forlistening and for tuning in.
This is our second episode here.
Stay tuned for some moreupdates, look out for the
episodes every wednesday and gobe gay.
(32:39):
Bye, Bye.
Welcome back to another episode of I'm Not Gay.
You Are with your host, joey.
That is me.
Thanks for being here andthanks for tuning in being here
and thanks for tuning in,alrighty.
So today I want to talk to youabout coming out and the
struggles people may face.
Maybe they're not ready Today.
(00:34):
All I can speak on is myexperience and my story,
alrighty.
So not everything that you hearon this podcast or not
everything you see on theinternet or instagram profiles
definitely social media.
I feel that there is this powerseeing people confident in
(00:59):
their sexuality and who they aretoday and and I wasn't always
as confident, as comfortablewith who I am today, maybe like
five or 10 years ago.
So I definitely want to talkabout my coming out story and my
journey and how that has mademe who I am today and who I am
(01:20):
proud to be today, am today andwho I am proud to be today.
So I want to talk early yearsand start very young.
Were we born gay or are wenurtured into being gay?
(01:41):
And, to be honest, I don'treally know the answer.
I don't.
I love to ask people thisquestion and I had a recent
conversation with my partnerabout it and I was like you know
, like, do you think that we'reborn gay?
Or do you think that you knowwe develop these qualities and
like, like men or same sexcoupling because of the way we
were nurtured and brought up andlike?
Or maybe you know something wasmissing in our childhood or
(02:01):
something we had tooured andbrought up and like.
Or maybe you know something wasmissing in our childhood or
something we had too much of inour childhood, or maybe it was
the food we ate and all the thebad stuff in the kool-aid that
we were drinking.
Um, I, I you know what.
I think about this a lot.
Truly, I I'm not sure what theanswer is and I don't need to
(02:23):
know.
I just like to get people'sperspective on things and I like
to understand what theirthoughts are, because it's quite
enlightening listening tosomebody else's point of view
and it really like it almostjust changes yours for a second
and like you're like, oh damn, Inever thought about that way,
or that's really interesting toto hear or to understand.
(02:47):
Like I never would haveexpected that or understood that
.
So I think, when it comes tonature being, we are born this
way, or nurture being we are, weare developed into being gay.
I don't know, I think it's 5050 if I'm going to be honest,
(03:09):
and I know that sits on thefence and it's not super
controversial.
But hear me out, let's startfrom the beginning, in school.
So primary school, elementary,whatever you call it, junior
high, I don't know, but for meit was primary school.
I was very young and before Iwent into high school I only
ever had girlfriends, only evergirls, like no guys.
(03:33):
The guys that I was friendswith were maybe just in passing,
there were just other studentsand I wouldn't call them friends
like.
The girls that I hung aroundwith were my solid, you know,
core six girls and we'd go toeach other's houses, we'd hang
out on the street, which is justlike our cul-de-sac, or you
(03:56):
know.
And I never really got alongwith boys like I, never.
I just I didn't like them.
I don't't know.
Did I find them intimidating?
Probably, yeah, like theycalled me gay and a bunch of
shit, you know.
So I felt that I never reallygot along with guys.
Period, that's it really.
(04:18):
Um, now, being who I am today, Ifeel very confident and
comfortable with my sexuality.
I couldn't care less.
I don't see men as like scaryor me as inferior to them in any
way.
But I definitely, when I was akid, like I didn't play soccer
or football or whatever you wantto call it, um, rugby or
(04:40):
honestly I didn't play anysports.
I definitely pulled out myinhaler every PE class and was
like, no, thank you, I'masthmatic, I can't run.
And the teacher was like, okay,joe, I definitely chose to not
surround myself with with likemasculine or male figures in my
(05:02):
life.
I definitely, like was drawn tomore of like female energy and
just I guess their company andthat kind of plays a part in why
I think that I was nurturedinto being gay was because I
took on maybe a lot of feminineenergy, because that's all I
kind of like knew being aroundgrowing up for the first 10
(05:23):
years, 15 years of my life.
You know, the nature part wouldjust be me being born this way
and I grew up to be who I amtoday, which there's always, you
know, a very high possibility.
That's the case too.
I just believe that all of ourdecisions and things that we do
(05:45):
as a child obviously impact usgrowing up.
There is a nurturing part tobeing gay and liking same-sex in
my experience, and that's whatI want to preference here is
this is my experience and myopinion.
You might have a completelydifferent opinion and a
different experience to me, andyou hung around with all boys
(06:09):
and you're, you're still gay.
Well damn, maybe you'rebreaking my, my thought process
and maybe that makes more sensetoo, because you hung around
with men all the time, so youwere like, oh damn, like I want
to sleep with you, or maybe not,I don't know, that's my nature
versus nurture argument.
I'm 50, 50.
(06:30):
I actually have no idea, but Iwould love if you would like to
write in and tell me yourthoughts on your experience and
and what you think makes us gaytoday, because it's a very
interesting piece.
Right, like, I don't know, isit the tv shows we watched?
Because, god, I love charmedgrowing up and that's just about
(06:52):
three witches and all theirboyfriends.
So, uh, the cw network, love,you call me um daytime tv, oh
yeah, and everyone else iswatching, like football, and
like it's the World Cup, theFIFA World Cup, and I'm like, oh
my god, I want me to go seePiper and Leo, see if they get
(07:14):
back together.
The real Charmed fans will know.
Okay, going back to my earlyyears I believed that.
So in elementary school,primary school, junior high,
high school, whatever you wantto like call all of these, these
(07:36):
are like the younger yearsbefore you're in high school I
remember having a lot of likegirlfriends and not really any
guy friends, actually any guyfriends.
I just usually hang out withthe girls.
I felt a little intimidated byguys and not too not too sure
(07:57):
how to like interact with them.
I hated PE, I didn't like anysports.
I so like on a masculine level,I wasn't really connected into
my masculine side.
Obviously.
Um, most of the girls I wouldjust hang around with them and
sit with them in class and stuffand that's just kind of like my
life day to day.
(08:18):
I was very much like.
You know what.
Thinking about this now it'skind of making me cringe.
All my teachers and like alllike they're like my friends.
Moms used to be like oh, you'relike a ladies man, aren't you?
And oh, you got all the girlsyou like.
You should share my some tipsto my son.
And da, da, da, da.
(08:38):
I'm like yeah, little do theyknow.
I'm like, leave me alone.
Moving into, like high schoolwhen I was like pre-adolescent,
um, I don't remember having anylike sexual urges towards men or
women, to that.
(08:59):
To that point I feel like I waslike I was pretty much a late
bloomer and I don't remember.
I don't remember, um, lookingat like men and being like
sexually attracted to them orlike idolizing them or like you
know, girls being like, oh, he'scute, he's cute, what do you
think of him?
You know they wouldn't kind oflike include me and like that's,
(09:19):
that's okay, like I, I guess,like at the time, like I wasn't
really sure and like I didn'treally know like what my path
was or like where I wanted to beor who I wanted to be with.
And when I moved back to EnglandI did get into a relationship,
uh with a girl, um, and I wasabout 22 years old, I got into a
(09:41):
relationship with a girl and wedated, like you could say dated
uh, for eight months and butlike we had a good sex life.
I think like it was like prettynormal.
Honestly, I don't really know,like I don't really know how to
like it was.
(10:01):
We were pretty active.
Should I say like, but, um, Iknew long term.
Should I say like, but, um, Iknew long term that it wasn't
what I wanted.
Towards the end of thatrelationship, I was like this
doesn't feel right.
Like this, this person wastrying to like make me something
that I'm not, unfortunately,and I'm sorry to say that out
loud.
But yeah, after my relationshipwith that person, I took some
(10:27):
time for myself and Irecuperated and I was like,
honestly, I think, deep down, Iknew that I was like I want to
explore something new and, ohgod, let's get into the
nitty-gritty of things and noone am I, I hadn't told anyone,
(10:48):
I hadn't said anything to anyone, no one knew.
And it was kind of like a turnon like that, no one.
I mean like I'm saying like noone knew, but I'm like walking
around the streets with my highheels on and my rainbow flag
being like, yay, girls, no, I, Iwasn't, I wasn't.
(11:08):
I'm joking, I'm joking.
But at the time I came up withthis relationship with a girl
and, um, I wanted to seek, um, Iguess, like sexual relations
with with someone, but I, I knewI didn't want to be with a girl
(11:28):
long-term and I didn't want tobe with a girl and like, sure,
the sex was like okay, but likeI, just I felt like I needed
some like to level up.
I was like I need to level upin some way and like I know that
this isn't right for me.
So, like, okay, how do I moveinto like this like man era?
How do I look, how do I, how doI like know what I'm looking
(11:49):
for in a man like you know?
Like where do I start?
Like where do I be?
Like oh, that man is hot.
Like what's my type at thispoint, like you know.
So I devilishly downloadedGrindr and from there I had a
complete blank profile.
I had no name on there.
(12:10):
I used a fake email address andeverything because I was scared
it was going to link to mypersonal email address and send
me spam, or someone would seesomething or someone that I knew
that was going to be on there,and they were going to be like,
oh my God, like you're gay, likewe knew it, or you know, like I
(12:30):
don't know.
I just I think that was soworrisome for me.
I was so worried that someonewas going to out me before I was
ready.
So I just went on with a blankprofile photo and I didn't have
any, I guess, intention.
I just I wanted to know what itfelt like to talk to a man
sexually, you know, because it'sa whole new ballpark and like
(12:54):
that's.
That was like the first likestep for me to like
understanding what I wanted andwho I, who I was becoming.
So I I did, I downloaded Grindrand I made this, this fake
account, or I don't account, orI don't want to say fake account
because but you weren't gettingmuch from me, sorry.
Like people were like send uspic or pic question mark, and I
(13:15):
was like, grow up, like you'renot getting that.
So, yeah, I was on Grindr andif you don't know, grindr goes
off your location.
So, um, it will show you theclosest um person that has an
account active to you and itcould be, and it tells you like
(13:36):
how far away they are indistance by meters.
And I was so scared I logged onand it shows up, it pulls the
grid up and I was like, holyfuck, there's so many men on
here and you know some profilesare fake, some aren't, some are
real, some are, you know, yourtype, some are not your type,
some are like there's the whole.
(13:58):
It's a whole new world for me atthis point and I was like kind
of overwhelmed and I was scaredbecause it was now showing that
this blank profile had just likeuploaded, this recently new
profile had uploaded and it was,you know, very close to other
people.
So you know, I was scared thatwhat's in my neighborhood if
there was a gay person and I waslike, oh no, they're gonna know
(14:20):
it's me somehow, because theyknow that I live, like, I know,
600 meters away from them andlike'm clearly, like they know,
at this point they're gonna know.
And, like you know, they knowthat I'm 180 centimeters tall.
Just kidding.
But, like, for anyone who knowsthese, the platform like it
gives you the, the, the heightof the user, and like the eye
(14:43):
color and the hair color and itgets into the nitty gritty stuff
you know.
So, um, but I remember askingme when I was making my profile
too.
It was like you know, yourpreference and at the time it
was um, passive or um dominant,I think, or top, or, I can't
remember, dominant, I think, ortop.
(15:06):
I can't remember it wasn'tbottom or top, it was passive,
um or or or dominant.
And I was like, oh my god, Idon't know what that means.
And I remember, like I can'teven google it because I'm
scared that it'll like get stuckin my google searches or like I
want a shared family plan, likegood god, and the last thing I
want is my dad being like tornapart for like googling, like
(15:28):
passive or dominant positiontype anyways.
So I just I clicked preference,rather not say because I wasn't
sure at that point, oh gosh,I'm spilling too much anyways.
So at this point I had.
Then I made this a profile and Iwas talking to people and they
(15:50):
were like, oh, you're gonna sendus a picture, you know, like
show us who you are.
And I noticed guys wouldquickly drop the conversation if
I wouldn't share a photo of me,which is totally fair.
Like who wants to talk to ablank profile?
No one, like I totallyunderstand.
I just wasn't there yet.
So I I went offline and andthen I, as I started going back
(16:15):
online to like this app andstuff, to like you know talking
to.
At this point I feel like I wasjust like making friends with
people like, and they didn'tknow who I was, but it was just
more so me overcoming that fearof talking to another guy and
like especially another, anothergay guy, like a gay man or
someone that like could beattracted to me, because that
would just attract all thisunwanted attention for me that I
was scared of having but wantedto really deep dive and like,
(16:38):
feel and look into.
Honestly, I feel like this issuch an internalized problem,
but I feel like this isstandardized.
I feel like people go through.
This is like your identitycrisis, right, like this is you
being?
Like, oh my god, am I gay?
Like, do I like men?
Um, so I, at this point I hadrealized that people didn't want
(17:01):
to talk to me unless I I hadGoogled.
I went onto Google and I hadgrabbed some like random photos
of some like random dudes likenothing special to look at, just
like, so it'd get me past the Ineed a photo test.
So I then had upload them toGrindr and I said that they were
(17:24):
these people, this person wasme.
I didn't put them on my profilestill a blank profile but when
are like, can you send us aphoto of yourself?
Like, just so?
I'm not talking to a blankscreen.
I'd be like, yeah, sure, andthat would keep the conversation
going, you know, minus the factthey're like oh, you've got
nice eyes and your hair is cuteand you're, oh, you're blonde.
I love blondes.
I'm not blonde and I don't havecute eyes, so score, um, but I
(17:48):
think I just chose this, like aperson or like you know, this
profile that I was like kind ofdidn't represent me anyway, so I
wouldn't, they wouldn't, Iwouldn't imagine them talking to
me, being like I don't knowanyways.
So, um, I then from there, Ifelt confident just talking to
(18:09):
guys and I was that was awesome,like.
I felt like that was you know,um, I was getting a little more
confident and I then decided toput my own photos on Grindr.
Um, and I at this point I hadn'tput them on the profile cause,
still, I wasn't coming out topeople.
(18:29):
This is still very much insecret.
I was just talking to theseguys and I was like oh, like,
and I would target people totalk to too that were like
clearly not also out or likecomfortable and like discussing
like their sexual activity andstuff like via like, because
that way then it would likeprotect me too, because they
wouldn't out me and I wouldn'tout them, and that's kind of how
(18:50):
it was and honestly, it waskind of a vicious cycle because
I feel like for the next likeyear and a half, two years, I
would hook up or, um, you know,talk with these people online,
knowing that it will never beanything, but that way that
would protect my secret, becausethey don't want to come out and
they would never come out or,uh, say they were temporary in
(19:15):
town or something, and it wouldjust kind of be like a one night
stand or something, but thatway it would protect my secret a
little bit longer.
Um, so, yeah, that was that.
And from there, I remember myfirst time making out with a guy
, um, and this person, when I,like I'd I'd been talking to
(19:38):
them for a while, um, they sawmy real photos.
Um, they lived in like the nextcity from me, um, back home in
england and I had a car, so theyhad their own place.
There was a bit of an age gap.
Sorry, if you're listening, uh,I want to say like, maybe, like
four years, maybe, but likefour years might seem like
(20:03):
nothing, but when you're like 23or 22 or whatever, or I think I
was like 20, maybe I wasyounger than that, I don't know
um, but like, when you're thatyoung, like four years feels
like an eternity.
Um, so I felt like this personwas a lot more mature than me
and I felt like they could likeguide me and like kind of like,
(20:25):
you know, if they were like goodto me and stuff, this could be
like a regular thing or um, Icould just like be comfortable
with who I wanted to be, butlike behind closed doors, behind
their bedroom closed door, um,ew, um.
So, yeah, I went to go meetthat person for the first time
(20:49):
and I'd finished work I think Ihad like a late shift or
whatever and I went home,showered and then my mom was
like, oh, like I guess they werein bed, but like she was like,
are you going out?
And I was like, oh, it was likemidnight.
I was like, yeah, I'm justgonna go for a night drive.
She was like, okay, cool, bye.
And like that's what I did lovemy parents was.
(21:11):
They were, they were not likebreathing on my neck all the
time.
They let me do what I wanted todo.
And like the age of the age of22,.
Like they're like, ah, leavehim to it.
So as long as you drive thespeed limit, put your seatbelts
on Right, um.
So I went to this guy's houseand from there, um, nothing kind
of like happened.
There was no, like you know,there was no touching, there was
(21:34):
no like engagement of anysexual activity.
Um, he was very patient it'ssuper nice and he knew that I
was being super awkward and,like I was very uncomfortable.
So, um, it took me like 20minutes to go and sit on the
couch.
I'm like why am I being such afreak?
But you know, I felt like, oh,that's just my experience for
(21:56):
you.
But, um, we did share a kiss, um, that night, and all I remember
, and it's ingrained into myhead, was the feeling of stubble
on my face and I was like, ow,wait a minute, what the fuck is
(22:21):
that?
I was like that feels horrible.
Like I've only at this pointever kissed like women, and like
I didn't have stubble either, Idon't think, or maybe a little
bit, but like, because currentlyI have a beard, but like I've
(22:42):
always had a beard, but I didn'tthink I had much of a beard
when I was that young.
So, maybe a little bit, butlike I remember actually leaving
because we had a kiss and then,like a kiss kiss, you know,
like a good one, like a long oneand a nice one, it felt good,
it felt right, it was nice.
But I remember leaving andgetting to my car and scratching
(23:03):
my face because, like my chinarea was so freaking scratchy
and I was like what they?
And I was like what the hell?
And I looked in the mirror andI turned my little car light on
and I was like, oh, and I hadthis red rash all over my face
and it was from his beard,touching, I guess, like my beard
, and the friction was likescratching me and I've never
felt that before.
And I remember when he firstput his like lips on mine and
(23:25):
his beard touched my face, I waslike I like wanted to pull back
and he was like, is everythingokay?
And I was like, um, yes, Ithink question mark, like I
guess that's normal, I gotta getused to that.
So, yeah, I guess most peopledon't think about that, but I
never thought about it eitherand when it happened I was very
caught off guard.
(23:46):
But yeah, so after that, uh, welike regularly met up and stuff
and I felt like very comfortablewith this person and from there
, um, the relationship slowlystarted to like break down, like
it was just becoming moreinconsistent and my work
schedule wasn't meeting theirwork schedule.
(24:07):
You know how it is.
So I really wanted to see whatwas out there and experiment.
I did that through variouschannels on Grindr, and I was
able to, you know, connect andmeet up with people and you know
, sometimes it's coffee,sometimes it was, you know, a
day, sometimes one night stand,um, and then, moving forward, a
(24:28):
couple years later I did move toManchester, the city of, and,
um, it was a little bit moreaccessible in like the community
of like gay people um, theyhave like the gay village there
and stuff, and I would go outclubbing and I'd never kissed a
guy in a club or public, foreven that matter at this point.
So, um, at this point I was like, oh, like you know, I I don't
(24:51):
know whether I can do this and II was like this isn't like you
know, and I would go to gayclubs to feel like people were
staring at me and like wanted meand attention and stuff, and I
could look back, but I wouldnever like signal that, you know
(25:12):
, like anything, any interest,because I was scared they would
come over and talk to me and Iwouldn't know how to like handle
the situation in public with myfriends there, or you know.
So I was.
It was kind of like a, like areally psychotic game, if I'm
going to be honest, like I feellike it's not really it wasn't
very healthy, but I guess we alldo it.
We all, we all seek attentionand affection, right?
So, yeah, um, I had I'd madethe decision then to grab my
(25:36):
best friend Sam, and I think Ijust like had enough and I
really wanted to like just tellher and you know, tell someone
at least and it had to be mybest friend.
So, um, I remember she wasfinishing work and I text her
and it was really laid out, andshe was like what's going on?
And I was like I just reallyneed to talk to you?
And she was like, okay, I'llcome pick you up.
(25:57):
So she drives to my house, shepicks me up and we're driving
around and I haven't said oneword and I haven't even brought
up like what I want to talkabout.
Um, she hasn't even asked mebecause she knows how
uncomfortable I am with whateverthis, you know, problem is.
I want to bring up Um and shejust stops the car and we start
(26:21):
talking and she's like what'sgoing on?
Like you know, like you'rescaring me, like is everything
okay and I'm like, yeah, likeeverything's fine, and I feel
like I shouldn't have to do this, but I but I want to.
I want to verbalize this to youand I need to say it out loud
so like I can hear myself say itand you can hear me say it.
But I was like like Sam, I, I, Ilike men and like I think, I
(26:44):
think I like is that okay?
And she was like, she was like,oh, joe, she's like like we, of
course it's okay, and like we,we knew honey, and I'm like, no,
like I'm saying I know, youknow, but like, okay, I've, you
know, been hooking up with menand seeing men and like on
(27:06):
Grindr and da, da, da, da, and Ifelt like I started crying and
I for me, like I really don'tcry like very often I was so
overwhelmed with emotion and Ijust felt so like happy to like
just get it off my chest andlike I felt like relieved to
tell someone, um, and she wasjust like oh, it's okay, like
(27:28):
you, like you know, like like Ilove you, no matter what, and
like like we kind of alreadyknew and stuff, like it's, it's
no big deal, but like I'm sohappy that you're able to like
open up and tell me and likeactually share, like your
experience with me and stuff,and God knows she had a lot of
questions.
Oh, let me tell you, let metell you, let me tell you.
(27:51):
She's like, does it hurt?
I'm like, oh, that, that is,that is.
That's not the first question,honey, that's not.
We're not asking, I'm notanswering that one.
Um, so, yeah, I felt relievedand this was, it was such a
success from in my mind.
Um, I remember we were drivingback in her car and I was like
my eyes were like tear filledand like my face was sticky from
(28:12):
like this, the tears that havecome down my face or whatever.
Uh, and we're driving over thislittle bridge and like going
back to my house.
It's like two o'clock in themorning, pitch black outside,
and we're just driving around ina little ford ka and if you, it
was really cute and small andcompact, but really small and
British, and she just puts onLady Gaga, born this way, and
(28:35):
she's like sing it.
Honey, I'm like I love you.
It was like the most sensitivesituation that you somehow
desensitized for me and it wasgreat, honestly, and we still
talk about it to this day.
It's so funny and that songwill come on and she'll be there
and she's like you remember andI'm like I remember and she's
(28:57):
like this is your song, honey,take it away classic.
So that was me coming out to mybest friend and that was the
first person I came out to.
After that it was like a rollingeffect and I came out to a
couple of the friends and Imessaged you know a, a text
message one of my friends and Isaid we need to talk and she
FaceTimed me and we had aconversation there and she was
(29:17):
like we knew it's okay.
A lot of people that's kind oflike their response.
They're like we already know,like we know who you are, and
like we know you and like we, we, we love you.
(29:39):
So like that was.
That was that I think thehardest part for me was just
like it almost feels when you,when you're telling, when you're
telling someone for the firsttime, it feels that it's wrong
and that's why I think Istruggled so hard with it was
because it felt that when I wastelling people that I was gay,
that I, that it was wrong andthat it was, it was ill of me or
that like why, like the factthat we have to like tell people
that we're gay or like come outis like so poor, like why
(30:04):
should we?
Why do we have to do that?
Like it's like, you know, whengay people always say, like oh,
straight people don't have tocome out to their parents, like
they're right, kind of, in a way, like we shouldn't have to have
, like you know, the rainbowconfetti and rainbow smiles cake
because we're like, oh, look,uh, joey's gay, let's bring out
the cake.
Like there shouldn't be like aparty because I'm, because I'm
(30:26):
coming out as gay.
I mean it's nice, don't get mewrong and it's cute and it's
very thoughtful, but like it's alittle insensitive.
I feel that nice, don't get mewrong, and it's cute and it's
very thoughtful, but like it's alittle insensitive.
I feel that we don't really needto have this big old party, big
old gay party.
Because I like the same sex,right.
(30:48):
I don't see value in givingsame sex, right.
I don't see value in giving,having to give this huge speech
or, like you know, telling thesepeople that you like love and
like making it such a big deal.
It should just be like you getto bring home your partner and
that's you know.
It doesn't matter of like whattheir gender is Like.
(31:09):
That's the whole point of thisis you should be able to bring
home whoever you want to bringhome and like if you're in a
relationship, you're in arelationship.
If you're not, you're not.
Like, like you know, or ifyou're experimenting, or
whatever you're doing orwhatever parting life you are,
you should be able to, to feelcomfort and that's who you get
to be with.
It shouldn't really be up toanybody else and we shouldn't
(31:34):
have to seek approval for ourrelationships.
If that's where we want to bein that present moment, right,
and that's who we want to bewith.
But I know everyone's experienceis different and I know
everyone's situations are alsodifferent, so I don't want to
talk about you know as a whole.
I definitely think that's myopinion and my values and I know
(31:58):
that that's not the way it canbe for everyone, but I wish it
could be.
I wish it could be that way.
But that's uh, that's my comingout story and that's kind of my
two cents there on natureversus nurture and I definitely
will like bring these questionsup to like guests and stuff and
just get their opinions.
So in the future I definitelywant to discuss that more with
(32:19):
people that come on the show andjust like kind of get their
opinion on.
Like you know, did somethingmake you gay or do you feel like
you were born gay?
But I want to thank you forlistening and for tuning in.
This is our second episode here.
Stay tuned for some moreupdates, look out for the
episodes every wednesday and gobe gay.
(32:39):
Bye, Bye.
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