October 9, 2024 • 26 mins
Can a TV show really shape your identity or change how you see the world? Join me, Joey, as I explore this provocative question through the lens of queer representation in media, focusing on the heartwarming and sometimes idealized world of Nick and Charlie from Netflix's Heartstopper. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on my own high school years, marked by a longing for the kind of acceptance and support that these fictional stories portray. As I navigate the emotional landscape of nostalgia and bittersweet realizations, we take a closer look at how these narratives impact us, offering both validation and sometimes unrealistic expectations.
Listeners are invited to engage in a critical dialogue about the power of storytelling and its role in shaping queer identity. By sharing personal journeys and experiences, we celebrate diversity and the nuances of representation, acknowledging both the positive aspects and the complexities that come with it. With exciting plans for future Q&A sessions and guest appearances, this episode is not just a reflection but an invitation to contribute your voice to the conversation. Tune in every Wednesday to "I'm Not Gay. You Are" and embrace the richness of queer stories, all while remembering to be unapologetically you.
Follow the show on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/imnotgayyouarepodcast/
Stay tuned bi weekly (Wednesday) for a new episode from I'm not gay, you are
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey (00:13):
hi there, welcome back to.
I'm not gay.
You are with your host, joey,that is me.
How are we doing?
Thanks for being here, thanksfor listening and tuning in
Wednesdays are 30 minutes ofyour time spent with me.
I've been doing a lot ofpre-filming, just setting up the
podcast, so we have somedynamic, good content that we
(00:36):
can push out every Wednesday foryou.
And it's strange today, becauseI'm alone, I am not
interviewing.
This is definitely myperspective again and my
experiences coming to you, whichis awesome, but it definitely
has a different vibe, kind ofsitting, you know, here talking
to you with the mic and justkind of sharing my journey and
(01:00):
experiences solo, rather thanlike bantering back and forth
and being able to converse withgenuine, like-minded individuals
.
So bear with me.
It's been a while, but I reallyam passionate about this topic
and obviously there is traumaand like a journey here that I'm
(01:24):
going to kind of dive into.
So stay with me.
And I really want to addressthe queer community in the media
, the power of storytelling andhow it can make an individual
feel.
So I recently watchedHeartstopper on Netflix, a story
of two British teens, nickNelson and Charlie Spring, an
(01:47):
all boys grammar school.
Charlie is a very high strung,openly gay overthinker and Nick
is a cheerful, soft heartedrugby player, sports boy and one
day I guess, they're made tosit together in class and they
hit it off.
Let's unpack this.
To be honest, it sent me into abit of a spiral.
(02:11):
Great, not because it wasn'tgood.
In fact, it's probably becauseit was too good.
It hit me hard and I realizedit was because I was yearning
for that kind of relationship atthat age but I was scared to
like be who I wanted to be and Iwasn't out or comfortable.
(02:37):
I don't think I was in like avery accepting era, was in like
a very accepting era, which issad to say.
But that's just high school foryou.
Yeah, I, you know, I don't know.
(03:01):
It was definitely like arelationship that's definitely
Hollywoodized and it's very justfor TV.
Maybe I don't know, but it'slike the kind that's definitely
Hollywoodized and it's very justfor TV.
Maybe I don't know, but it'slike the kind that's like pure
and accepting and it's so fullof love.
And, you know, nick reallytakes the the school and turns
it upside down for Charlie,who's out as gay and Nick isn't,
(03:21):
and he's like taking him underhis wing as a straight jock in
the school and no one reallyknows her secretly dating and he
brings him on the rugby teamand he like looks after him and
like the rugby team's kind oflike on his side then and he's
just very supported andconnected through the school as
(03:41):
a gay man, um, and prior to thejock, kind of like being there
supporting him, uh, nick, he wasbeing bullied and used and he
wasn't happy.
So, like you know, he finallyfinds this cute guy like hashtag
man of his dreams or whateverthat might be, and then he
(04:03):
starts protecting him, lookingafter him and, like you know,
being there for him.
And it was, uh, it's yeah.
It made me reflect on thedifferences between the way
queer stories are told in themedia and how they actually play
out in real life, and I thinkthere's a lot of similarities to
(04:25):
like my coming out story andthen seeing this on tv, but not
in the positive way,unfortunately.
I feel like for me it was.
I was very much like too scaredto be who I wanted to be, so,
instead of being that person, Ichose to swallow that person and
keep that person, like you know, down in the dark, and then
(04:49):
then that was a choice.
Like that I've got to admitlike that was my choice and I
did that because I wasn't readyto be who I wanted to be.
But uh, yeah, I think it'sbeautiful for the younger
generations to get to see lovelike this on like TV.
But for a lot of us it feelsbittersweet and I want to talk
(05:11):
about those feelings today, likehow it's okay to feel both
happy for those stories and sadfor what we might have missed
out on.
Like how do we navigate thatfeeling and how do we make peace
with, I guess, our own storiesand even if they didn't look
like the ones that we see on TV,wow, that was really powerful.
(05:34):
Um, my main topics from the TVshow.
I'm happy to watch season three.
I don't necessarily feel thesame way that I did anymore.
I feel like I've definitelylike internalized and kind of
gone through and the motions andI know it's just a tv show.
I'm not trying to like makethis anything that it's crazy or
(05:56):
dramatize anything, but it'sdefinitely crazy how you can
watch a tv show and it can makeyou feel or a movie or in a film
and I understand that you knowlike you could watch, uh, the
green mile say, and you knowthat's a very sad, sad movie.
My sister's keep a sad movie,or you could watch Resident Evil
(06:17):
.
It's a scary movie.
I understand the concept ofkind of like knowing what you're
in for.
I think I just went into thiscompletely unknown of not
knowing what this was.
And I think I just went intothis completely unknown of not
knowing what this was and Iliterally put it on as
background TV because it's abouttwo kids in high school, I
guess, that are falling in love.
I didn't really know, but itwas so powerful to me, it spoke
to me on a different level and Ijust I want to know if other
(06:39):
people felt the same way or ifI'm crazy.
The show is very cutesy andlovey and almost a little
immature just because they'restill in high school.
So, like being a 28 year oldwhen I watched this and was like
what does this mean?
Why am I confused and fallinginto this hole of depression?
Why do I?
Why am I drawn into the show?
(07:00):
And you know what do I?
Why do I see value in it?
Gay men relate to thesecharacters, potentially one time
, but in this situation, um, ofnot knowing if someone is gay or
straight and finding themattractive too.
So, like you know, so thecharlie is the main character
(07:21):
and he is or forced to come out.
It's you know it's kind of beentold already story that he's or
forced to come out.
It's you know, it's kind ofbeen told already story that
he's been forced to come out andhe was told he was gay and he
continuously gets kind of likepicked on and bullied through
high school.
After the show I felt very lost.
I like you can ask, like all myfriends, my partner, like I
(07:45):
fell into like this hole ofdepression and I don't really
know like how it, how I gotthere and how I stemmed into
this.
Like why didn't I have that?
That's really what it came downto is, why didn't I get this,
you know, in high school?
Like why wasn't I celebratedthis way?
(08:05):
Or why wasn't my life like this?
Like I found that a piece of mycoming out story and me being
gay was missing and I didn't nolonger see value.
While I am thankful for therepresentation for the queer
(08:26):
community and this show to comeout to, you know, help maybe a
younger generation, or even justto inspire someone, or maybe
just as good TV content, maybe Idon't know just as good TV
content, maybe I don't know.
It's also British based, whichis my home heritage and
(08:47):
obviously where I kind of likegrew up and where I see like my
background from high school andlike I immediately found that
like it just really felt like itwas my story, even though it's
not true to my story.
I kind of kept putting myselfin their situations as like
characters and like I had tokeep telling myself this is just
a show, it's just a tv show andI had to, you know, and like my
(09:10):
partner would come home, waslike you're not watching that
again, are you and I?
But yeah, like, and I mybehavior, like I I don't I don't
fully understand why I felt theway I did and I don't.
That's not the intention of theshow.
(09:30):
The intention of the show isit's almost like like a coming
out story and and and like it'sit's very cute and well done.
But I think just many of usdon't have or didn't have that
opportunity and it's notnecessarily like that positive
(09:52):
for all of us, that like I foundthat because my coming out or
my experiences went with man myfirst time or, like you know
second time or third time orhundredth time, weren't like
that in the tv show.
They weren't exactly how, likeyou know, charlie was and how he
was kind of like looked afterand supported by Nick, who was
(10:13):
his straight best friend inquotations until he wasn't and
now he's his boyfriend, and likethey run the school because
they're you know, everyone's solike like proud of them for
coming out and like they don'treally care what people think.
And as much as I value that inthose characters, I just don't
(10:33):
think it was necessarily pointto like real life.
Um, so I think the point ofthis episode for me definitely
to bring like attention to itwas obviously like watch the
show and and, like you know,take your you know two cents on
(10:56):
it and but just remember it's ashow and that those people are
characters and that you don'tneed to relate it to your life
because that's your own storyand that holds a different value
there too, like I said, I'malso very happy to see, you know
, the queer community on our tvscreens and having their own TV
(11:21):
show about coming out andstarting from scratch and just
not like like this is a wholejourney of a couple you know,
from coming out to you know,going leaving high school or
whatever they're doing.
They're on season three now.
I haven't watched it, honestly,but um, there's, there's so
(11:43):
much value there, um, andeducation, um, not to mention
like representation for thecommunity, which is awesome.
Um, I just found that for me,unfortunately, it it definitely,
um, and my partner laughs aboutit all the time and he's like,
you know, that was crazy.
But, um, and like, my bestfriend will always be like, oh,
(12:05):
that's crazy.
Like that tv show that likefucked you up.
I'm like, yeah, like it didfuck me up, like it.
It made me really question,like, who I am as a person and
like you know, because I didn'treally do it that way, or um, I
honestly I'm gonna be honest,this is my honest opinion I felt
(12:27):
that I was missing a part of mychildhood, because my childhood
wasn't that way and I was so inthe closet and like scared to
come out that my childhood, mein school, wasn't so positive.
Um, because I was so scared tobe who I wanted to be, I like
buried that person.
(12:47):
I buried them deep inside meand it wasn't until, like I said
, you know, maybe 2020, sorry,21, 22, when I felt comfortable
to start telling people that Iwas looking to explore, you know
, being gay or like bisexual atthe time, and then it was gay,
you know.
So I felt that, like watchingthe show, I felt like robbed of
(13:11):
my childhood because these boysthat you know had this childhood
that wasn't super positive atthe start, like they were
bullies, had this childhood thatwasn't super positive at the
start, like there were bulliesand you know.
But because he was done withthe jock, he felt like sheltered
and like cared for and likeprotected and like the jock was
like kind of running the school.
So the jock by the way, thejock is Nick.
(13:45):
He was protecting this younggay kid from like the bullies
because he could command anyonein the school and you know, he
then like brings him on therugby team to like be closer to
him and stuff, and I reallythought it was like really cute
and like very heartfelt and, um,yeah, I genuinely really
enjoyed the show.
I will watch season three.
If my partner's listening tothis, I'm still going to watch
it.
I'm not going to get upset, Ipromise, but I definitely would
(14:09):
love to hear what your take ofthe show is and if I'm just
being I guess I don't know liketrying to fill a void here.
Someone tell me, tell me, um,it's definitely very cute, it's
very heartfelt, it's definitelyvery young.
I want to keep referencing,keep referencing that Like it's
definitely a very young show.
(14:30):
It's not a show you know.
You're like it's, it's young,they're kids.
So, um, when you, when youwatch it, um, I had to like
remember, like don't think ofyourself today, but think of
yourself as a kid, like you know, like if you were going through
this as a kid, like how wouldyou have reacted or how would
(14:50):
you have behaved, and like youknow, and then you kind of like
start to like develop this likepersonal connection to it.
Well, for my experience anyways, that was definitely like what
happened to me.
I created this very personalconnection to this tv show,
which is absurd and I know thissounds crazy, but I guess, like
people do it every single day,right Like to books and stuff,
(15:11):
and that's kind of where thisshow started.
It was, I guess, comics, comicbooks first, and that's kind of
like where they branched off thefranchise to a TV show.
But yeah, I would love to getyour feedback on that.
I did look for some validationin my feelings after the TV show
(15:34):
and I remember watching seasonone and going through all the
emotions and like the motion of,like the void in my childhood,
I guess, from not coming outearly and not feeling like
having a such a as positiveexperience as they are having.
Um, but when, uh, I did, I didgo through Reddit.
(15:58):
I went to Reddit and I kind oflooked and there was a bunch of
gay men that were posting andtalking about their experiences
after watching it, how they werelike kind of depressed and like
had fallen into this, likereally low in their life and
they couldn't explain why.
And I guess everyone has liketheir own, like, uh, individual
(16:21):
relationship with the show andstuff and, like I said, it can
be quite positive and it issupposed to be uplifting and a
good representation of thecommunity.
But for me when I watched it,reading those reddits as well,
it really um reval, like itvalidated how I, why I was
feeling the way I was and that Iwasn't alone.
There was a bunch of otherpeople that were feeling the
(16:43):
same way and I wouldn'tnecessarily bring this up on the
podcast and talk about this ifit wasn't something that I feel
like others are definitelyfeeling that way and that's kind
of why I want to talk about itand just kind of like, watch the
show, but don't be so investedpersonally, like, just remember
(17:05):
it's, it's a tv show, um, andyeah, like it's it's scripted,
it's not real.
Um, I just think there's so manydynamics in the tv show that
that have happened to peopleevery single day and that do
happen every single day.
I ie myself and I think that'swhy I took it so personal.
(17:28):
So just remember that, likethis is just examples of kind of
what happens every single day,you know, in school and stuff,
and that's what makes it feel soreal.
I think, yeah, but great job onthe TV show, you're really
fucked me up.
Um, no, I'm just, I'm justkidding, I'm not really um, I
(17:51):
did watch season two.
For me, season two was good.
It just kind of dropped off alittle bit.
I wasn't like super invested,um, and season three just came
out.
So, uh, I I will probably giveit a listen Sorry, give it a
watch, just because I'm, like Isaid, I'm invested.
It's definitely emotionallychallenging for me, the first
(18:12):
season, second season, not somuch, and then third season
hopefully not, but yeah, I doapplaud the producers and the
people that created this and putthis on paper.
The actors they do such a goodjob.
It felt real.
It felt so real and it and,like I said, I definitely like
brought in my own personalexperiences to the show.
(18:34):
When I was watching it, I waslike playing a loop in my head
like why didn't I do this or why, you know, and which is which
is nuts?
It's so crazy.
But I really want, I just wantto know, like, like, when you
watch it, did you feel the sameway?
Did you, you know, feel likeyou got in a bit of a rut?
Were you upset in any way?
Did you get like a little bitlow and feel down for the
(18:57):
characters or for yourself?
Like I'm just, I'm just curious.
I uh, I would love to know yourthoughts and you can actually
message me your thoughts andstuff via the podcast.
There should be a little buttonin the description that says
message Joey, click on that andsend me a little message, if you
want.
(19:17):
I would love to know yourfeedback and your thoughts on
the show and even if you want tojust say hi or just you know, a
little shout out or whatever,it might be that you're
listening, send a little note tome.
Positive representation isimportant, but I just want to
preference that it can also setunrealistic expectations
(19:39):
potentially for what a queerrelationship and coming out your
experience should look like.
And coming out your experienceshould look like um, and I think
this is kind of like where Ifall short is my experience
didn't necessarily look likeCharlie and Nick's um, and not
in a sad way.
I just I feel like it wasn't soum positive and it wasn't so
(20:03):
easy.
I guess, guess, and, like Isaid, it's a TV show.
I understand, but I think youknow, watching these shows with
the idolized picture-perfectlove story may leave people
feeling inadequate or thatthey're missing something from
(20:24):
their own experience.
Um, like, like as I was talkingabout mine, I feel like I felt
like I'm missing that joyfulcoming out and that wholehearted
love story that I didn't havein high school because I wasn't
sure if I was gay straight byright, like I.
(20:46):
Just I didn't know how toidentify and not to fit in.
I just that's kind of.
What I focused on was justnavigating, getting through the
day and the people that I wasdealing with every single day,
and that's not a dig, like myfriends or like anyone.
I was in school with that.
You know it's just kind of likea personal thing, like you
always on your mind that peopleare going to be like, oh, you're
gay or or looking back now, Ididn't feel like I had the
(21:10):
opportunity to be um, have thosejoyful, supportive experiences,
and that's just because of, uh,me kind of like closeting
myself for so long.
But it's often a disconnectbetween the polished um tv show
that you end up watching andobviously the relationships and
(21:32):
the complexes and also just likethe on-screen chemistry.
I guess, like in any likerom-com or something like.
I think that's why, like, wegravitate towards it and like we
watch like rom-coms becausethey do make us feel good and
they make us feel loved and likeseeing like a love like that on
tv.
Like you kind of just like feelgood for it.
(21:52):
You know what I mean.
You're like, oh, look, look howcute they are.
And like, oh, like, I need apartner like that.
Like we do do that, like, likewe do, we all do it and watching
this tv show heartstopper, itreally, really, really me off
and it really did that for me.
So, yeah, this is definitelylike me talking about my past
self and just the opportunitythat I don't think I give myself
(22:16):
, but I am happy with everythingI've done so far in my life and
I gotta understand that.
You know this.
My life isn't a TV show and Idon't get a script and you know
the cute jock supporting mecoming out and then wanting to
(22:36):
kiss me.
So, uh, my, my situation isvery um, my situation is for me.
That's my personal, that's myjourney, right there.
So let me know what you thinkof the show.
Last little talking topic herebefore we end this episode is I
(22:59):
know it feels like there's a lotof pressure to have this
perfect coming out story or likethis romantic experience that
just like worked for you, um,but like we don't.
We don't all get that andthat's okay, and we don't.
Sometimes we don't get theopportunity to do or come out or
(23:25):
be the person we want to beuntil we're ready to do that.
So don't ever force it anddon't ever feel like you're less
than because you're definitelynot and things like TV shows and
stuff.
They're just a TV show.
You know, in real life it'soften a lot messier and out of
our control and we're just doingthe best we can with what we
(23:47):
have out of our control andwe're just doing the best we can
with what we have.
So a little food for thoughtthere and that's uh kind of like
my two cents there on, uh, onheart stoppers.
Um, please go watch the TV show.
I'm not saying don't go watchit, I'm just saying, uh, it's
nice to talk about the queercommunity in media with us.
(24:08):
Tv shows, the news, the lastmovie you watched and you know
the power of the storytellingand the character behind the,
behind the mask, is portrayingthe queer person.
Understand that it is just a TVshow and that it is characters
and it's all kind of scriptedand you don't need to, um, relay
(24:30):
it to your experience anddissect it and and ask yourself,
like why, why wasn't that me?
Um, but I want you to know ifyou do that, others do it too.
That is a very human response,like I said myself, like very
much so, like I did that Idissected the whole show and was
(24:51):
like you know, why wasn't mylife this way?
Like this seems like easier attimes, or this seems like it's
going to benefit him in thefuture and he's going to be a
better person for it.
Like you know, like, end of theday, it's still a tv show.
Lastly, I'm just very thankfulfor, uh, the queer
representation and yeah on thetv show um bringing it to such a
(25:13):
big platform like netflix.
You know, like, looking at um,all the different diversity in
the tv show.
It's not just about a gay mancouple.
There's there's a lot going onbehind the scenes and there's a
lot uh present there too andit's very um inclusive of the
whole queer community um, andit's just uh, it's a really
great watch.
(25:34):
All righty, send me a littlemessage if you want uh find that
little description box.
If it's on apple spotify orwherever you listen to your
podcast, underneath the episodethere'll be a description.
It'll say send joey a message,click on that, shoot me a
message.
Whether it's just a little chatthat you want, if it's a story
you want to share, I know in thefuture we're going to be
(25:55):
looking at um doing a questiontime and doing like a q a via
the podcast.
Um, whether it's your questionsyou want us to answer, or if
it's questions about me you wantme to answer and my experiences
.
We've got a couple more guestslined up coming on the show for
the next two or three weeks,talking about their journeys,
(26:18):
their experiences, and I'mreally looking forward to
sharing that with you.
So tune in every Wednesday to.
I'm Not Gay.
You Are with your host me, joey, remember be gay.
hi there, welcome back to.
I'm not gay.
You are with your host, joey,that is me.
How are we doing?
Thanks for being here, thanksfor listening and tuning in
Wednesdays are 30 minutes ofyour time spent with me.
I've been doing a lot ofpre-filming, just setting up the
podcast, so we have somedynamic, good content that we
(00:36):
can push out every Wednesday foryou.
And it's strange today, becauseI'm alone, I am not
interviewing.
This is definitely myperspective again and my
experiences coming to you, whichis awesome, but it definitely
has a different vibe, kind ofsitting, you know, here talking
to you with the mic and justkind of sharing my journey and
(01:00):
experiences solo, rather thanlike bantering back and forth
and being able to converse withgenuine, like-minded individuals
.
So bear with me.
It's been a while, but I reallyam passionate about this topic
and obviously there is traumaand like a journey here that I'm
(01:24):
going to kind of dive into.
So stay with me.
And I really want to addressthe queer community in the media
, the power of storytelling andhow it can make an individual
feel.
So I recently watchedHeartstopper on Netflix, a story
of two British teens, nickNelson and Charlie Spring, an
(01:47):
all boys grammar school.
Charlie is a very high strung,openly gay overthinker and Nick
is a cheerful, soft heartedrugby player, sports boy and one
day I guess, they're made tosit together in class and they
hit it off.
Let's unpack this.
To be honest, it sent me into abit of a spiral.
(02:11):
Great, not because it wasn'tgood.
In fact, it's probably becauseit was too good.
It hit me hard and I realizedit was because I was yearning
for that kind of relationship atthat age but I was scared to
like be who I wanted to be and Iwasn't out or comfortable.
(02:37):
I don't think I was in like avery accepting era, was in like
a very accepting era, which issad to say.
But that's just high school foryou.
Yeah, I, you know, I don't know.
(03:01):
It was definitely like arelationship that's definitely
Hollywoodized and it's very justfor TV.
Maybe I don't know, but it'slike the kind that's definitely
Hollywoodized and it's very justfor TV.
Maybe I don't know, but it'slike the kind that's like pure
and accepting and it's so fullof love.
And, you know, nick reallytakes the the school and turns
it upside down for Charlie,who's out as gay and Nick isn't,
(03:21):
and he's like taking him underhis wing as a straight jock in
the school and no one reallyknows her secretly dating and he
brings him on the rugby teamand he like looks after him and
like the rugby team's kind oflike on his side then and he's
just very supported andconnected through the school as
(03:41):
a gay man, um, and prior to thejock, kind of like being there
supporting him, uh, nick, he wasbeing bullied and used and he
wasn't happy.
So, like you know, he finallyfinds this cute guy like hashtag
man of his dreams or whateverthat might be, and then he
(04:03):
starts protecting him, lookingafter him and, like you know,
being there for him.
And it was, uh, it's yeah.
It made me reflect on thedifferences between the way
queer stories are told in themedia and how they actually play
out in real life, and I thinkthere's a lot of similarities to
(04:25):
like my coming out story andthen seeing this on tv, but not
in the positive way,unfortunately.
I feel like for me it was.
I was very much like too scaredto be who I wanted to be, so,
instead of being that person, Ichose to swallow that person and
keep that person, like you know, down in the dark, and then
(04:49):
then that was a choice.
Like that I've got to admitlike that was my choice and I
did that because I wasn't readyto be who I wanted to be.
But uh, yeah, I think it'sbeautiful for the younger
generations to get to see lovelike this on like TV.
But for a lot of us it feelsbittersweet and I want to talk
(05:11):
about those feelings today, likehow it's okay to feel both
happy for those stories and sadfor what we might have missed
out on.
Like how do we navigate thatfeeling and how do we make peace
with, I guess, our own storiesand even if they didn't look
like the ones that we see on TV,wow, that was really powerful.
(05:34):
Um, my main topics from the TVshow.
I'm happy to watch season three.
I don't necessarily feel thesame way that I did anymore.
I feel like I've definitelylike internalized and kind of
gone through and the motions andI know it's just a tv show.
I'm not trying to like makethis anything that it's crazy or
(05:56):
dramatize anything, but it'sdefinitely crazy how you can
watch a tv show and it can makeyou feel or a movie or in a film
and I understand that you knowlike you could watch, uh, the
green mile say, and you knowthat's a very sad, sad movie.
My sister's keep a sad movie,or you could watch Resident Evil
(06:17):
.
It's a scary movie.
I understand the concept ofkind of like knowing what you're
in for.
I think I just went into thiscompletely unknown of not
knowing what this was.
And I think I just went intothis completely unknown of not
knowing what this was and Iliterally put it on as
background TV because it's abouttwo kids in high school, I
guess, that are falling in love.
I didn't really know, but itwas so powerful to me, it spoke
to me on a different level and Ijust I want to know if other
(06:39):
people felt the same way or ifI'm crazy.
The show is very cutesy andlovey and almost a little
immature just because they'restill in high school.
So, like being a 28 year oldwhen I watched this and was like
what does this mean?
Why am I confused and fallinginto this hole of depression?
Why do I?
Why am I drawn into the show?
(07:00):
And you know what do I?
Why do I see value in it?
Gay men relate to thesecharacters, potentially one time
, but in this situation, um, ofnot knowing if someone is gay or
straight and finding themattractive too.
So, like you know, so thecharlie is the main character
(07:21):
and he is or forced to come out.
It's you know it's kind of beentold already story that he's or
forced to come out.
It's you know, it's kind ofbeen told already story that
he's been forced to come out andhe was told he was gay and he
continuously gets kind of likepicked on and bullied through
high school.
After the show I felt very lost.
I like you can ask, like all myfriends, my partner, like I
(07:45):
fell into like this hole ofdepression and I don't really
know like how it, how I gotthere and how I stemmed into
this.
Like why didn't I have that?
That's really what it came downto is, why didn't I get this,
you know, in high school?
Like why wasn't I celebratedthis way?
(08:05):
Or why wasn't my life like this?
Like I found that a piece of mycoming out story and me being
gay was missing and I didn't nolonger see value.
While I am thankful for therepresentation for the queer
(08:26):
community and this show to comeout to, you know, help maybe a
younger generation, or even justto inspire someone, or maybe
just as good TV content, maybe Idon't know just as good TV
content, maybe I don't know.
It's also British based, whichis my home heritage and
(08:47):
obviously where I kind of likegrew up and where I see like my
background from high school andlike I immediately found that
like it just really felt like itwas my story, even though it's
not true to my story.
I kind of kept putting myselfin their situations as like
characters and like I had tokeep telling myself this is just
a show, it's just a tv show andI had to, you know, and like my
(09:10):
partner would come home, waslike you're not watching that
again, are you and I?
But yeah, like, and I mybehavior, like I I don't I don't
fully understand why I felt theway I did and I don't.
That's not the intention of theshow.
(09:30):
The intention of the show isit's almost like like a coming
out story and and and like it'sit's very cute and well done.
But I think just many of usdon't have or didn't have that
opportunity and it's notnecessarily like that positive
(09:52):
for all of us, that like I foundthat because my coming out or
my experiences went with man myfirst time or, like you know
second time or third time orhundredth time, weren't like
that in the tv show.
They weren't exactly how, likeyou know, charlie was and how he
was kind of like looked afterand supported by Nick, who was
(10:13):
his straight best friend inquotations until he wasn't and
now he's his boyfriend, and likethey run the school because
they're you know, everyone's solike like proud of them for
coming out and like they don'treally care what people think.
And as much as I value that inthose characters, I just don't
(10:33):
think it was necessarily pointto like real life.
Um, so I think the point ofthis episode for me definitely
to bring like attention to itwas obviously like watch the
show and and, like you know,take your you know two cents on
(10:56):
it and but just remember it's ashow and that those people are
characters and that you don'tneed to relate it to your life
because that's your own storyand that holds a different value
there too, like I said, I'malso very happy to see, you know
, the queer community on our tvscreens and having their own TV
(11:21):
show about coming out andstarting from scratch and just
not like like this is a wholejourney of a couple you know,
from coming out to you know,going leaving high school or
whatever they're doing.
They're on season three now.
I haven't watched it, honestly,but um, there's, there's so
(11:43):
much value there, um, andeducation, um, not to mention
like representation for thecommunity, which is awesome.
Um, I just found that for me,unfortunately, it it definitely,
um, and my partner laughs aboutit all the time and he's like,
you know, that was crazy.
But, um, and like, my bestfriend will always be like, oh,
(12:05):
that's crazy.
Like that tv show that likefucked you up.
I'm like, yeah, like it didfuck me up, like it.
It made me really question,like, who I am as a person and
like you know, because I didn'treally do it that way, or um, I
honestly I'm gonna be honest,this is my honest opinion I felt
(12:27):
that I was missing a part of mychildhood, because my childhood
wasn't that way and I was so inthe closet and like scared to
come out that my childhood, mein school, wasn't so positive.
Um, because I was so scared tobe who I wanted to be, I like
buried that person.
(12:47):
I buried them deep inside meand it wasn't until, like I said
, you know, maybe 2020, sorry,21, 22, when I felt comfortable
to start telling people that Iwas looking to explore, you know
, being gay or like bisexual atthe time, and then it was gay,
you know.
So I felt that, like watchingthe show, I felt like robbed of
(13:11):
my childhood because these boysthat you know had this childhood
that wasn't super positive atthe start, like they were
bullies, had this childhood thatwasn't super positive at the
start, like there were bulliesand you know.
But because he was done withthe jock, he felt like sheltered
and like cared for and likeprotected and like the jock was
like kind of running the school.
So the jock by the way, thejock is Nick.
(13:45):
He was protecting this younggay kid from like the bullies
because he could command anyonein the school and you know, he
then like brings him on therugby team to like be closer to
him and stuff, and I reallythought it was like really cute
and like very heartfelt and, um,yeah, I genuinely really
enjoyed the show.
I will watch season three.
If my partner's listening tothis, I'm still going to watch
it.
I'm not going to get upset, Ipromise, but I definitely would
(14:09):
love to hear what your take ofthe show is and if I'm just
being I guess I don't know liketrying to fill a void here.
Someone tell me, tell me, um,it's definitely very cute, it's
very heartfelt, it's definitelyvery young.
I want to keep referencing,keep referencing that Like it's
definitely a very young show.
(14:30):
It's not a show you know.
You're like it's, it's young,they're kids.
So, um, when you, when youwatch it, um, I had to like
remember, like don't think ofyourself today, but think of
yourself as a kid, like you know, like if you were going through
this as a kid, like how wouldyou have reacted or how would
(14:50):
you have behaved, and like youknow, and then you kind of like
start to like develop this likepersonal connection to it.
Well, for my experience anyways, that was definitely like what
happened to me.
I created this very personalconnection to this tv show,
which is absurd and I know thissounds crazy, but I guess, like
people do it every single day,right Like to books and stuff,
(15:11):
and that's kind of where thisshow started.
It was, I guess, comics, comicbooks first, and that's kind of
like where they branched off thefranchise to a TV show.
But yeah, I would love to getyour feedback on that.
I did look for some validationin my feelings after the TV show
(15:34):
and I remember watching seasonone and going through all the
emotions and like the motion of,like the void in my childhood,
I guess, from not coming outearly and not feeling like
having a such a as positiveexperience as they are having.
Um, but when, uh, I did, I didgo through Reddit.
(15:58):
I went to Reddit and I kind oflooked and there was a bunch of
gay men that were posting andtalking about their experiences
after watching it, how they werelike kind of depressed and like
had fallen into this, likereally low in their life and
they couldn't explain why.
And I guess everyone has liketheir own, like, uh, individual
(16:21):
relationship with the show andstuff and, like I said, it can
be quite positive and it issupposed to be uplifting and a
good representation of thecommunity.
But for me when I watched it,reading those reddits as well,
it really um reval, like itvalidated how I, why I was
feeling the way I was and that Iwasn't alone.
There was a bunch of otherpeople that were feeling the
(16:43):
same way and I wouldn'tnecessarily bring this up on the
podcast and talk about this ifit wasn't something that I feel
like others are definitelyfeeling that way and that's kind
of why I want to talk about itand just kind of like, watch the
show, but don't be so investedpersonally, like, just remember
(17:05):
it's, it's a tv show, um, andyeah, like it's it's scripted,
it's not real.
Um, I just think there's so manydynamics in the tv show that
that have happened to peopleevery single day and that do
happen every single day.
I ie myself and I think that'swhy I took it so personal.
(17:28):
So just remember that, likethis is just examples of kind of
what happens every single day,you know, in school and stuff,
and that's what makes it feel soreal.
I think, yeah, but great job onthe TV show, you're really
fucked me up.
Um, no, I'm just, I'm justkidding, I'm not really um, I
(17:51):
did watch season two.
For me, season two was good.
It just kind of dropped off alittle bit.
I wasn't like super invested,um, and season three just came
out.
So, uh, I I will probably giveit a listen Sorry, give it a
watch, just because I'm, like Isaid, I'm invested.
It's definitely emotionallychallenging for me, the first
(18:12):
season, second season, not somuch, and then third season
hopefully not, but yeah, I doapplaud the producers and the
people that created this and putthis on paper.
The actors they do such a goodjob.
It felt real.
It felt so real and it and,like I said, I definitely like
brought in my own personalexperiences to the show.
(18:34):
When I was watching it, I waslike playing a loop in my head
like why didn't I do this or why, you know, and which is which
is nuts?
It's so crazy.
But I really want, I just wantto know, like, like, when you
watch it, did you feel the sameway?
Did you, you know, feel likeyou got in a bit of a rut?
Were you upset in any way?
Did you get like a little bitlow and feel down for the
(18:57):
characters or for yourself?
Like I'm just, I'm just curious.
I uh, I would love to know yourthoughts and you can actually
message me your thoughts andstuff via the podcast.
There should be a little buttonin the description that says
message Joey, click on that andsend me a little message, if you
want.
(19:17):
I would love to know yourfeedback and your thoughts on
the show and even if you want tojust say hi or just you know, a
little shout out or whatever,it might be that you're
listening, send a little note tome.
Positive representation isimportant, but I just want to
preference that it can also setunrealistic expectations
(19:39):
potentially for what a queerrelationship and coming out your
experience should look like.
And coming out your experienceshould look like um, and I think
this is kind of like where Ifall short is my experience
didn't necessarily look likeCharlie and Nick's um, and not
in a sad way.
I just I feel like it wasn't soum positive and it wasn't so
(20:03):
easy.
I guess, guess, and, like Isaid, it's a TV show.
I understand, but I think youknow, watching these shows with
the idolized picture-perfectlove story may leave people
feeling inadequate or thatthey're missing something from
(20:24):
their own experience.
Um, like, like as I was talkingabout mine, I feel like I felt
like I'm missing that joyfulcoming out and that wholehearted
love story that I didn't havein high school because I wasn't
sure if I was gay straight byright, like I.
(20:46):
Just I didn't know how toidentify and not to fit in.
I just that's kind of.
What I focused on was justnavigating, getting through the
day and the people that I wasdealing with every single day,
and that's not a dig, like myfriends or like anyone.
I was in school with that.
You know it's just kind of likea personal thing, like you
always on your mind that peopleare going to be like, oh, you're
gay or or looking back now, Ididn't feel like I had the
(21:10):
opportunity to be um, have thosejoyful, supportive experiences,
and that's just because of, uh,me kind of like closeting
myself for so long.
But it's often a disconnectbetween the polished um tv show
that you end up watching andobviously the relationships and
(21:32):
the complexes and also just likethe on-screen chemistry.
I guess, like in any likerom-com or something like.
I think that's why, like, wegravitate towards it and like we
watch like rom-coms becausethey do make us feel good and
they make us feel loved and likeseeing like a love like that on
tv.
Like you kind of just like feelgood for it.
(21:52):
You know what I mean.
You're like, oh, look, look howcute they are.
And like, oh, like, I need apartner like that.
Like we do do that, like, likewe do, we all do it and watching
this tv show heartstopper, itreally, really, really me off
and it really did that for me.
So, yeah, this is definitelylike me talking about my past
self and just the opportunitythat I don't think I give myself
(22:16):
, but I am happy with everythingI've done so far in my life and
I gotta understand that.
You know this.
My life isn't a TV show and Idon't get a script and you know
the cute jock supporting mecoming out and then wanting to
(22:36):
kiss me.
So, uh, my, my situation isvery um, my situation is for me.
That's my personal, that's myjourney, right there.
So let me know what you thinkof the show.
Last little talking topic herebefore we end this episode is I
(22:59):
know it feels like there's a lotof pressure to have this
perfect coming out story or likethis romantic experience that
just like worked for you, um,but like we don't.
We don't all get that andthat's okay, and we don't.
Sometimes we don't get theopportunity to do or come out or
(23:25):
be the person we want to beuntil we're ready to do that.
So don't ever force it anddon't ever feel like you're less
than because you're definitelynot and things like TV shows and
stuff.
They're just a TV show.
You know, in real life it'soften a lot messier and out of
our control and we're just doingthe best we can with what we
(23:47):
have out of our control andwe're just doing the best we can
with what we have.
So a little food for thoughtthere and that's uh kind of like
my two cents there on, uh, onheart stoppers.
Um, please go watch the TV show.
I'm not saying don't go watchit, I'm just saying, uh, it's
nice to talk about the queercommunity in media with us.
(24:08):
Tv shows, the news, the lastmovie you watched and you know
the power of the storytellingand the character behind the,
behind the mask, is portrayingthe queer person.
Understand that it is just a TVshow and that it is characters
and it's all kind of scriptedand you don't need to, um, relay
(24:30):
it to your experience anddissect it and and ask yourself,
like why, why wasn't that me?
Um, but I want you to know ifyou do that, others do it too.
That is a very human response,like I said myself, like very
much so, like I did that Idissected the whole show and was
(24:51):
like you know, why wasn't mylife this way?
Like this seems like easier attimes, or this seems like it's
going to benefit him in thefuture and he's going to be a
better person for it.
Like you know, like, end of theday, it's still a tv show.
Lastly, I'm just very thankfulfor, uh, the queer
representation and yeah on thetv show um bringing it to such a
(25:13):
big platform like netflix.
You know, like, looking at um,all the different diversity in
the tv show.
It's not just about a gay mancouple.
There's there's a lot going onbehind the scenes and there's a
lot uh present there too andit's very um inclusive of the
whole queer community um, andit's just uh, it's a really
great watch.
(25:34):
All righty, send me a littlemessage if you want uh find that
little description box.
If it's on apple spotify orwherever you listen to your
podcast, underneath the episodethere'll be a description.
It'll say send joey a message,click on that, shoot me a
message.
Whether it's just a little chatthat you want, if it's a story
you want to share, I know in thefuture we're going to be
(25:55):
looking at um doing a questiontime and doing like a q a via
the podcast.
Um, whether it's your questionsyou want us to answer, or if
it's questions about me you wantme to answer and my experiences
.
We've got a couple more guestslined up coming on the show for
the next two or three weeks,talking about their journeys,
(26:18):
their experiences, and I'mreally looking forward to
sharing that with you.
So tune in every Wednesday to.
I'm Not Gay.
You Are with your host me, joey, remember be gay.
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