August 27, 2025 • 50 mins
When directing duo Jason & Blue initially met Chelli Look at her studio showcasing her latest handbag collection, they expected to create a simple maker documentary. What they discovered instead was a profound story of resilience, as Chelli channeled her grief into artistic expression while donating portions of her proceeds and time to a domestic violence shelter.
Co-hosts Jonathan C. Legat and Tricia Legat welcome the film's directors onto the show and discuss the nine year filmmaking journey that captures Chelli's evolution not just as an artist but as a person rebuilding her sense of purpose.
Imbibe responsibly! Watch the film before or after you listen to the episode. This episode is mostly spoiler-free, however, listeners are likely to get more out of the episode having already watched the film.
Subscribe to our podcast for more thought-provoking discussions where film and spirits come together to illuminate our shared cultural experience.
Looking for more episode content? Read the Episode Recap, including links to episode references and the ingredients for this episode's featured cocktail – now available on our website under Reviews & Articles.
To begin your Imbibe Cinema membership, visit imb.watch/membership.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dawn Dusk was the closing night feature of the
2020-25.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
2020-2025.
Shh.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's that cotton candy.
It messes with the time.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah, it's all that sugar.
The space-time continuum yeah,greetings and or salutations,
(00:38):
and welcome to the Imbibe CinemaPodcast.
I'm Jonathan C Leggett, alongwith my co-host.
Trisha Leggett as well as ourproducer, Michael Newens, and
we've been really excited aboutthis particular episode because
things are going to be a littlebit different.
Unlike our previous editions,Today the episode will be
spoiler-free-ish.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Light.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Spoiler-free light.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Spoiler-free adjacent light spoiler free light
spoiler free adjacent.
We are thrilled to have twoguests on the show, both
partners in life and uhfantastic directing duo, who
have just released theiraward-winning documentary dawn
dusk on digital earlier thismonth.
And if you have not seen dawndusk yet, please find the link
(01:24):
in our show notes to learn moreabout how and where you can see
it.
This film follows Shelley Look,an artist who specializes in
designing handbags, and theoverwhelming grief that she and
her family experience after themurder of her sister In the
years that follow Shelley'sjourney towards healing forces
(01:46):
her to rediscover who she is asan artist, leading to an
unexpected revelation.
Now, dawn Dusk was the closingnight feature presentation at
the 2025 Blue WhiskeyIndependent Film Festival
earlier this year, and it didwin Best of Illinois.
So we're going to be bringingour guests in just a few minutes
(02:06):
and then break down ourreaction to both the film as
well as the interview after thebreak.
But first let's talk about thedrink that we have paired with
this film.
It's delicious, it is.
It is quite tasty, the hit ofsugar, and you get to actually,
you know decide how much sugaror sweetness you want in it.
(02:27):
The drink that we have pairedwith this episode is called Dusk
Till Dawn.
The cocktail contains blueberryvodka, orange juice, lemonade
and blue cotton candy, and againyou can rip off a larger or
smaller hunk depending on yoursweetness taste.
Recipe as well as pictures areavailable on our website,
(02:50):
imbibecinemacom.
Let's get to it and welcome ourguests.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
I'm Blue, I'm.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Jason.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
We're the directors of Dawn Dusk and, yeah, we're
happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Wonderful.
In fact, I know somebody isvery eager to get into said
questions.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Well, we're looking forward to it.
Before we started recording, Ihad talked about marriage and
that transition was going to bethere, naturally but it's gone
now.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Did you want to re-pitch about marriage and how,
now that you're married to me,you're just tired?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
No, obviously, we're so in sync.
We can finish each other'ssentences, but how did it come
about?
What is your origin story?
I should say on working withyour partner at home and at work
.
How did that work out for youguys?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
We first started working together on a music
video that we did basicallyright out of college.
Yeah, which has never seemed tolike me, it's bad, it wasn't
very good but it was really funto make.
And I came on as a productiondesigner for it actually, but
then kind of ended up kind ofco-directing it with Jason.
(04:04):
And then he was like, well, whydon't you help me with the edit
?
And then there was all of thesemoments where you know I'd show
up to his house to edit andhe's like, oh, do you want?
I made tilapia and here's whitewine, and you want to listen to
this Bon Iver album?
And I'm like what's happening?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
We called them accident.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Yeah, so that continued for a while until he
actually asked me out, and yeah.
And then we dated and then, youknow, for a while in the
beginning we were kind ofworking mostly separately.
I was doing production designand he was doing camera, but
then on the side we were doingstuff together, because both of
(04:50):
our dreams and our goals wasalways directing, um, and so
kind of working in these otheraspects of film was just like a
means to work in film whilebuilding up our portfolios.
And then we kind of launchedourselves as directors and,
through a party, invited all thepeople that we had worked with
(05:14):
before and said here's ourportfolio as directors, please
hire us.
And I think we just wanted todo that because we didn't really
want to compete against eachother, and we also found that we
had a lot that each of us wasbringing to the table, that we
were able to, you know, fill inthe blanks for each other and
(05:35):
collaborate together.
We, I think, are moving intomore of places where we're now
more established in our owndirecting styles and are kind of
starting to even direct, uh,separately a little bit more and
but still like supporting eachother in that okay and for this
(05:56):
project, how long, how muchfootage like.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I know documentaries.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
The story kind of comes to you at, but how much of
it is guided?
Yeah, it's like 800 questionsin one.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Oh, I can answer them all, I'll just let you.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
What is documentary to you?
How do you Wow?
What does it mean?
Can you tell me a little bitabout your process?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, well, start to finish.
Finish being the movie that wasjust released, it's not
finished.
We still have a lot of work todo, but let's just call that the
finish Start to Finish, themovie's been released.
Nine years, more or less fromstart to finish.
(06:36):
We started filming with Shelleyin late 2016.
We met her actually at an openstudio.
We were kind of running inparallel circles and, through
some friends of friends, we met,uh her at an open studio that
she was throwing um for herlatest collection, which was the
dawn dust collection, and we uhwent to this event to go check
(06:58):
it out.
We didn't know much about it atthe time.
Vimeo was popular and littlemaker documentaries were popular
and everyone was like aimingfor a staff pick.
So we were in that.
We were also like caught up inthat trend and hype and we also
were getting asks fromcommercial agencies.
You know like, hey, we'relooking for this kind of like
high end docu style work and inorder to get that kind of work,
(07:21):
you need to kind of have it onyour portfolio.
So we were looking for somekind of project to fill in that
gap and when we walked into herstudio, it was kind of
mesmerizing.
It was very minimal butbeautiful.
Shelly was a really magneticperson and we said to ourselves,
maybe Shelly would let us filma little like five minute maker
documentary about her.
So we asked her.
(07:41):
She said, yeah, let's do it,let's talk about it, let's get
coffee and we can chat aboutnext steps.
So a few days later, overcoffee, we asked her like how
did you get started?
You know doing what you'redoing?
And she told us the story of hersister who had been murdered
and how she was now donating 10%of her proceeds to WINGS and
(08:05):
also donating 10% of her time toWINGS as a domestic violence
shelter in Chicago.
And it was like a verysurprising answer to hear the
story of what she had gonethrough and where she was at.
And we started to feel likethere might be something deeper
but we didn't know in thatmoment that we had a
feature-length film on our handsbe something deeper, but we
didn't know in that moment thatwe had a feature-length film on
(08:25):
our hands.
But we started filming and overtime, you know, we popped in
for some B-roll here and poppedin for some B-roll there and
asked to you know, have a longinterview with her and maybe
after there's like maybe four orfive days of filming over the
course of a month, we were likeI think there's something more
here.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Let's let the story be as long as it needs to be, uh
, and then wind it up with a 90minute feature film on her hands
yeah, I, I think another partof that that was like really, I
think why it was so intriguingwas when she answered our
question with the story of hersister.
She answered it like, not inlike a uh, this really hard
(09:03):
thing happened to me and likewhat was me?
Kind of way.
She said it almost like thisreally hard thing happened, but
like there's power in sharing,like this story and like now I'm
turning it into good and thatwas like what was so yeah
(09:25):
turning it into good and thatwas like what was.
So, yeah, like that's a reallygood way really kind of jaw
dropping to us.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, uh, you asked how much footage.
We had about 80 hours offootage, yeah wow, michael,
you're the resident editor.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
It's a lot of footage yeah, we, we thought, we
thought we, we thought we hadwon the footage amount.
And then we went and saw thedocumentary Wildcat and they had
a thousand hours of footage.
And we were like okay, I guessit's not that much.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
We'll never brag about how much footage we had
again, but it was for us, Ithink, as an independently
funded documentary.
For a very small film With justus and one editor and an
assistant editor for a shortstint and well, we had an
editing intern who helped.
Becca was great too.
So just over that, over thosetime we had about three and a
(10:16):
half, four years ofpost-production.
You know, we trimmed that 80hours down to like a four hour
assembly and then took that to athree and a half hour assembly
and then two and a half hourrough cut and then, you know, a
hour in like eight, like youknow, 50 minute fine cut and
then around 100 minutes.
We did some test screenings andwere able to trim that last 10
(10:36):
minutes off and really nail itdown.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
yeah, yeah, well, I mean for me, uh, I am not
technologically savvy in any way, and they can speak to this,
but technology changes soquickly.
Cameras have come so far, soit's like nine years of footage,
and how much technology changesover that time is just kind of
(10:59):
one of those like oh my God, andyet the film is beautiful.
And the way that it's edited isamazing.
I I am a sucker for symbolismand I love the use of light
throughout the film.
I love the way how you movelight across the room and and
and speeding it up and uh, thethe shots that were at dawn or
(11:19):
dusk, um, but um.
I think one of my um favoriteswas how the light in her studio
would move in these slits across, and that was.
That was pretty awesome.
Another thing is like there wasa point where she was talking
(11:40):
about getting through the angerof what she'd gone through and
at the same time, you'rewatching her get a tattoo and
how it's like.
oh, this is just imprintedliterally on your skin as you're
talking about getting rid ofthis pain and carry it with you
and all that, and it was justlike, oh, I love it.
These are two things like righthere at the same time.
So that then leads me down thisother red.
Yeah my train of my train ofthought has no track.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I apologize oh, I love it, let's follow it okay.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
so at what point do you get comfortable being in the
room while things that are uh,happening, that like, for
instance, when, um, she'stalking to her mother, uh, and
going over things and and thisis very vulnerable, very
intimate, emotional moment andit's done very respectfully but
(12:27):
I mean, I can only imagine likebeing in the room.
How is that from a filmmaker'spoint of?
Speaker 5 (12:35):
view, because all throughout filming with Shelly
and all throughout the process,we always made sure to ask
consent and we always gave her aheads up of like hey, we want
to talk to you about the murder.
(12:55):
So, just so you know, we're notcatching you off guard and
that's not always how some docsare made.
But I think it's interestingbecause even as we're going
through our festival run andsubmitting to some festivals, we
were getting some questionslike what is your relationship
(13:19):
to your subject?
People wanted to know do youhave consent to tell this story,
which I think is really, um,like, actually really good,
because you know the it just itkeeps, um, the person in mind,
like care for the person, andthat was what we wanted to
extend to shelly, was we wantedto, you know, make sure that she
(13:42):
wasn't being taken advantage ofthroughout it.
But so that moment that youbrought up of when you know her
mom starts crying in there inthe room, I think that was a
really interesting momentbecause I think my gut reaction
was like to give them space.
But then it was like well, no,like this is what you know they
(14:04):
have.
They have given us permissionto enter into the, into this
vulnerable space with them, andso you know, we stayed and just
just allowed whatever needed tohappen to happen and then, I
think, afterwards just checkedin with them and was that OK
that we were there.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
We were strategic.
Uh, we spent a lot of time withshelly before we approached her
about talking to her parents ordoing a home visit, and when we
did that, we wanted to havehave earned the trust of shelly
to advocate on behalf of us, tobe there, you know, and to
connect with her family, becauseyou know, she was our point of
(14:45):
contact.
And but I remember that momentvery distinctly because we kind
of had we were just filming someB-roll.
There wasn't, we weren't, I hadalmost put the camera down and
we only had one camera up whichwas just me and you had, like
gone around the hallway.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
And the scene sort of started to shift and I started
to lock in and I just tried tonot breathe and to not make
myself known at all.
And you'll see, there's amoment actually where I'm up
high and I don't really like it.
I didn't want to be up high, Iactually wanted to be at my hips
so I could be eye level, wantedto be at my hip so I could be
(15:26):
eye level and I, um, as asshelly reaches for these paper
towels in the scene to like giveto her mother to help wipe her
eyes.
I have to move out of the waybecause I'm like over the paper
towels and I use that moment tosort of shift low and get to eye
level.
But there's no cuts becausethere's no other camera running
and any sound, any getting a bcamera up, anything like that.
You know blue's right aroundthe corner and I'm looking and
making eye contact.
We didn't want to ruin thismoment, not only for our sake
(15:49):
for being able to film it, butwe wanted to let them have this
moment.
I think there's kind of aduality in a documentary like
this, where we're trying to getwhat we need but we also are
trying to let things naturallytranspire.
And so much later we talked tothem and they said I didn't even
remember you being in the room.
And I think that's aninteresting thing because I just
, you know, was I'd made myselfvery small and you weren't even
(16:13):
really in the room, you werejust monitoring audio next door.
You don't even have a monitorup at the time because we
weren't really in go mode.
It just sort of happened and wejust had to get that moment,
and I'm glad we did, because Ithink it was a powerful and
intimate moment.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, and I will say there wasn't ever
moments where we were gettingshelly's like edits or eyes or
anything like she's she when shesaw the film.
She saw the completed film likeas is, and you know, and we
were like hope you like it.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah um, she had no creative involvement in the
making of it.
Consent just means like hey, isit okay that we're here while
we're filming?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, exactly, and I could see that, because we know
that she has other siblings andwe know that her sister lived
out of state and so if you wereto follow that story and as many
documentaries then become aboutthat incident or give all this
(17:12):
background on it, and that's notthere and I've I.
Uh, that's where you kind ofexpect it to go as a viewer, at
least in my experience youexpect, oh, we're going to hear
all about this other woman'slife, and we didn't.
And I really liked that becauseit's really.
It is her story, it is herpoint of view and she's taking
control of how her life movesforward and, like the film is
(17:38):
shaped around that goal and thespirituality.
That's the other thing.
She talks about her faith andwe don't see her at church, even
though she's talked aboutchurch.
We don't need a church to havefaith, right.
So in the beginning you havethese moments where she just
talks about church.
We don't need a church to havefaith, right.
So in the beginning you havethese moments where she just
talks about being an artist andcreating and how.
(18:01):
She's like, oh, I can'tarticulate, I have a hard time
finding the right words.
I'm like you are so articulate,that is so well said.
I couldn't say anything closeto what she says.
And I'm like but I completelyunderstand what you're saying
and I agree to what she says.
And I'm like but I completelyunderstand what you're saying
and I agree, and all of that.
And then it makes me go well,gee, I know she didn't just sit
(18:22):
down and go.
Well, I'm gonna tell you allabout art, especially
considering, in my process,considering, I have a hard time
verbalizing it.
So how do you lead intoquestions to and then be and get
those questions to expoundwithout going you know, oh, yes,
no, how do you?
How do you get that out of asubject?
(18:43):
Because obviously I suck atasking questions.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Not at all.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Oh, that's a great question.
That's a good question.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Yeah, I mean we started pretty so I think in the
beginning we we just had somuch that we wanted to know
about her and we had so many.
In the beginning it was kind oflike we were wondering what we
were going to focus onspecifically.
And to your observation of whatyou just said about how, you
(19:14):
know, we didn't follow her tochurch, we didn't follow her
sister.
The focus really is on her asan artist and that is what you
know.
We ended up kind of honing inon and leaning into in our
interviews with her.
But in the beginning we wouldjust have these.
She was such a good sport.
We'd have these very longinterviews.
(19:36):
We had like three hour longinterviews with her where we
just sat and chatted for a longtime and in the beginning we
were asking her these kind ofbroad questions like what is
quality to you?
You know, what does it mean toyou to have a quality?
You, you know, to make qualityart?
(19:56):
I think at one point, you know,jason asked her about art and
what is like the meaning of art.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I asked her what is good taste?
And she rolled her eyes yeah,because they're very broad.
I mean, we also asked her a lotof just background questions,
but they were.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
We were building up a layer of, like, uh, trust and
conversation and rapport betweenthe three of us and just
getting her comfortable and youknow she felt comfortable enough
to like laugh at some of herquestions, which was great, um
and so but yeah, we those thingsled to sort of like you, you,
(20:33):
you joking say like what is themeaning of art, you know, like,
and and then she laughs, shelaughs, and then she tells you,
and then she thinks about it,and it may not be the exact
answer, because I don't thinkyou can really define that, I
don't think you can truly answerthat, but you can answer it for
yourself in some way.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And then that goes somewhere and that leads to
these deep thoughts, things thatyou think and feel but you
maybe don't always articulate.
And I think that being willingto sort of be open to big
concepts but also like beingable to sort of dive and follow
threads, like very much likeyou're doing with sort of like
taking your train of thought,but then you get somewhere where
(21:12):
you kind of like needle into aspecific point and it gives us a
really good space to answer.
That's like a great question.
I love that question.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
So so those questions , you know, became more and more
um, thoughtful and intentionaland specific as time went on.
And I think a great example isthe walk and talk that we do
with her by the lake side.
In the film that was, thatinterview came after having some
(21:46):
other conversations you knowwith her from the other
interviews where and actuallyyou do see this in the film
there's like another interviewwith when she has the shaved
head, where she's um in herstudio, where she's saying she's
talking about the inspirationbehind the bags and she's
talking about how she's superinspired by sunrise and sunset.
(22:07):
And after that interview wewere like, okay, yeah, yeah,
you're inspired by sunrise andsunset.
It's very pretty, like it'sgreat.
But you know we were kind oflike, but why?
But why you're inspired bysunrise and sunset.
It's very pretty, like it'sgreat.
But you know we were kind oflike, but why, but why are you
inspired by sunrise and sunset?
And so then we took her to thelakeside and we said can you
talk to us about what dawn anddusk actually mean to you?
(22:30):
And that's where the chat aboutlike how it was the most
faithful thing for her duringsuch a dark time of her grieving
the loss of her sister.
Going through the trial, youknow dealing with all the anger
and the questions and you knowso.
Then we saw, like that, thatdeeper part of it come out,
(22:54):
knowing what it's like to shooton the water.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Uh, the wind factor.
Uh, I'm impressed like youdon't.
You don't hear uh what?
Yeah, michael's like oh, thewind when it's off the lake.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I've shot on lake michigan several times and and
all adr always, always, every,every time.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I think it was just a really quiet day.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
It was a quiet day on a lob mic.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
It was also like six in the morning.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, it was six in the morning.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, when you talk about consent and permission,
there are places I don't know ifyou necessarily knew you were
going, like Italy, yeah, andfilming at the school or filming
at the airport or filming on aplane.
Like, did you run into anyissues where you were able to
film A couple of things?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
So for Italy.
If it feels abrupt in the film,it's because it was for us too,
and I think it was for Shelleytoo.
She was like you know what?
I'm going to enhance my craftin Italy and we were like, oh
okay.
And so we were like, well,maybe we should go.
And so we went and we justcalled the school ahead of time.
(24:05):
We actually let Shelly go for afew months before and then over
that time, once she got alittle more comfortable, it just
gave us the contact and we wereable to sort of arrange school
is very excited, very excited.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
They were like yeah, pumped so that was easy.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
That was easy.
The um airport was just takingthe camera and stripping it down
to its smallest shape and justlooking like a tourist, and um
blue had a little bag with awireless audio recorder very
small and we had a mic on herand we just tried to look like
we weren't doing anything.
Um and I like popped out alittle monopod and when we were
(24:44):
in the um the terminal justthrew it down and just sat there
quietly and just we just talkedand it just looked like I had a
camera and no one bothered usPopping onto the plane.
I think this is okay to say theone fake thing in this whole
movie.
It's okay, the one fake thingin the whole movie.
(25:06):
We couldn't fly to Florence withShelley, but we wanted to get
on a plane, we wanted to gothrough that whole experience.
So like maybe three or fourdays or maybe a week before she
was going to leave for Florence,we booked a flight to
Cincinnati and back in the sameday together and just flew to
Cincinnati together and talkedall day and then flew back and
(25:28):
talked in the terminals and onthe plane and then got what we
needed to represent her leavingfor Italy.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah, and it wasn't, like you know, so far removed.
It was like she was gettingready to leave.
So when we asked her you know,talk about where you're going,
what you're about to do it wasstill like authentic.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
It was imminent.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, yes, yeah, right, and then you have all
that footage that you can findwhat you need, because otherwise
it's like the plane and the mapand the dots and Exactly what
is it Like Sleepless in Seattle?
Where they're just like do youknow this, oh yeah.
Sleepless City.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I was thinking of the Muppets, but oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, travel by map, travel bymap.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, no, yeah.
No.
Michael and john have their ownuh history of uh airports and
filming, and was the the shockmount was the shock mount.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
We're going through the you know tsa and this tsa
agent waves us over.
Uh, we were.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
We're flying out to la, to uh one shot it was the
other half of a phone call.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, we had somebody in LA but we're flying out
there and this TSA agent wavesMichael over and he's like is
this your bag?
And we're like, yeah, and hegoes, what the fuck is in here?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
And we're like I'm sorry what.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And he's like what is this?
And he pulls out and it's likeyou know, you know it's the
handle and it's like asennheiser shock mount right and
and we're like, oh, it's ashock mount.
He's like what is?
That what is, and we're likeokay so you, you put the
microphone in there and that wayit doesn't you know.
And he's like, oh good, becauseI'm like these guys are not
bringing a crossbow on here andi'm'm like oh okay, I can see
(27:14):
that.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
No, it's like no sorry sorry.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
I mean in that TSA agent's defense.
A shock mount does sound veryscary.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I mean, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Everything that we bring.
We have a boom pole, we have ashotgun microphone.
There was a red camera calledthe weapon for a while and I was
bringing a red weapon throughsecurity once and they opened it
up and it's a square boxlabeled weapon right on top and
there's nothing you can do aboutit.
It's big branding and they'relike what is this?
(27:47):
And I'm like it's a camera andthey're like why does it say
weapon on it?
Speaker 5 (27:51):
You're like I don't know.
Talk to red.
This is not me.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Oh, man, yep, you're like I don't know, this is not
yeah, yeah, you know, oh man yep, that's great I love how
everything got revealed in a um,in a layered way, where it you
know it kept you wanting to knowmore, but without like, not
holding it back and being likeI'm not gonna tell until yeah,
we really have to credit oureditor, slash co-producer,
(28:20):
meredith Mantic, with thatexecuting it, you know, in this
very technical way, where shejust like knew exactly what
pacing we needed and like wherethings needed to go when we
(28:42):
ditched our chronological cutand decided we've literally
called it like we've editedbased on themes.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
that's literally what we were doing and I'm glad that
came across.
That is what gave us thisfreedom to sort of start
ditching stuff and, you know,like as interesting, as
interesting as, like some ofShelley's, like family
background and like journey fromcollege and different things
were when we started that theme,we kind of were able to sort of
(29:07):
hone in on the things that wefelt like made the most sense
for this story Because, like yousaid, there's so many ways we
could have taken this and wereally wanted to be about an
artist, um processing her griefthrough her work and that's how
you know you see the structure.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
then, um, reflect that kind of grief process,
because grief is very non-linearand you know you're not going
from point a to point b, justlike creation sometimes, like
the creating process is alsononlinear at times, um, and so
in a way, the structure of thefilm reflects both her creative
(29:49):
process and her grief journeythrough that.
So, yeah, so that that was kindof like the thematic motivation
for editing it that way, Ithink.
I think when we went fromthrough the test screening, what
actually ended up happening waswe've reordered a few things,
(30:12):
like we, we, there was stillsome stuff that needed to be
even reordered even more, andthen we, then we trimmed down a
little bit here and there, um,but the last 10 minutes was
really like a minute here, a fewminutes off this section yeah
here, yeah, I'm trying toremember if I don't remember, if
(30:34):
there was anything that anylike big chunk that got lost,
yeah, I think in that four hourversion it was just sort of
everything.
It was like her whole life and Ithink we were able to sort of
focus it but one thing that umwas kind of sad to lose or that
we ended up not having time forin the end was actually more of
(30:56):
Dave, her husband's, interview,where he actually talked more
about like his process offorgiveness and how you know,
after the murder he had a lot ofanger, you know come up and at
the time, like they were onlyengaged and, yeah, he talked
about how you know he kind ofreverted into like social
(31:22):
justice.
Like my, the people that I loveare being harmed, like I'm I'm
upset and I'm pissed.
And so when they went down tosee her parents, you know he was
kind of coming in with thatenergy, coming in with that
(31:43):
energy and he said that shelly'sdad, um, just like bear, hugged
him and just was like son, likeno, this is like we need you
here, we need you to like bepresent with us, and he and they
just like broke down and weptand as he's telling us this
story, he's like crying and I'mcrying and jason's crying and
we're all crying and I meanrightly so.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
It's such a profound moment, even third party, and I
think that those were sad.
There were some things thatwere sad, like that to lose, but
it was, you know, shelley'sstory and that's where we tried
to focus it in on.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, it's a powerful story and also it's kind of
interesting that, like thecompany, how you see how like
this was her passion, this washer thing, she knew already what
the name was going to be andthat this was all.
And then, all of a sudden,after Italy, it's just, it's so
perfect, how, all of the how itall worked out that you would
(32:37):
think you planned it.
It was so well done.
So next question you spent nineyears with this subject.
How do you go from beingfollowing somebody around all
the time to like and goodbye?
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Yeah, that that's a really good question.
I think you know it was.
It was interesting asfilmmakers to spend so much time
with someone.
But I think then also reflecton and process, you know, the
needing to also respect thatperson's time.
(33:14):
And you know it is strange tosit in here here's someone you
know.
It is strange to sit and hearsomeone you know share so much
with you and then feel like youmaybe want to share back but
that's not what the role is.
You know that's not what it is.
And like Shelley likes to jokethat it was three years of free
(33:36):
therapy and so you know, and andin some ways I mean that really
is kind of what our rolesreflect as documentary directors
is you do, kind of it issimilar to the role of a
(34:03):
therapist, where you are mostlythere to listen and point out
observations, but ultimately you, you know you're letting the
other person figure things outfor themselves.
You know not all therapies likethat, but in in some like talk
therapy cases.
So you know it was, it was likeinteresting in that sense.
But you know we are still we'restill friends with Shelly and
(34:23):
and have a sweet connection toher.
And you know, obviously rightnow, as we're promoting the film
, she she's been speaking hereand there about the film on
different places and you knowwe're giving her a heads up
about things that we're doing incase she wants to reshare them
and stuff like that.
Um, she also when, when wefinished the film, she gave us
(34:45):
these little bracelets that saydawn and dusk on them and yeah,
that's awesome and it was.
It was really just really sweet, and so she's been.
It's been very special to haveher champion us as filmmakers as
(35:09):
we are telling her story.
So she's yeah, she's just she'sa big fan of us as artists as
much as we are fans of her asartists yeah, there was a time
where we weren't really talkingvery much, especially over the
pandemic.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
I actually remember when we sent her an update she
was like, oh, I didn't know ifthis was still happening not
really anything because of her,but just just because we were.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
You know, it was the pandemic and we were trying to
figure stuff out on our end.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
It both delayed us and gave us the bandwidth to
really hone in on the edit.
So it was both good and badduring that time, but it was.
It maybe was all a littlelonger than we anticipated.
You know we were working withour editor remotely and it was
hard but it was good.
But then, you know, once wewere able to kind of get back in
(36:05):
person and once we actually gotout to LA and we could really
hone in with Meredith in person,that's when we started making
real progress.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
And then Silas.
Yeah, we brought Silas as ourcomposer which was also a really
fun part of the process.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I listen to the soundtrack quite often.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Oh, that's so sweet, it is my go-to.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
It is my go-to especially when I've had a
really stressful day and I gofor a walk and it just kind of
gets me in the right frame ofmind and then I want to watch
the movie again.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Oh my goodness, Wow, that frame of mind.
And then I want to watch themovie again.
Oh my goodness, wow, we'regonna.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm definitely gonna tell us that, yes, I was gonna
love that I love that, oh, whenyou're working on something, you
kind of have an idea, or youcome up with an idea like, oh,
this is my next, this is, thisis what's coming up next did you
have anything that came in?
Uh, while you were working onthis project, you're like, okay,
we're gonna, we're gonna putthis aside because this is
something on the horizon for us.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
We are commercial film directors by trade, so Dawn
Desk was primarily self-funded.
We didn't have the luxury ofworking on it full time, so we
had to make work and make aliving.
So we were making commercialscorporate video and commercials
for brands all throughout thattime, because that's how we made
(37:19):
money and that's how we stillmake money.
So that that.
But those projects are short.
They they come and they go in awithin a month to three months.
Um, and we could.
It was always so nice to beable to pop back over and film
at shelly studio or do somethingwith the doc in between or when
we could during those types ofprojects, because it was our own
(37:39):
project.
I think that commercials arefilled with deadlines and a lot
of voices and while we aredirectors and we get to have a
lot of creative say, they aren'tnecessarily our babies.
We're there to execute somebodyelse's baby and to make sure
that sounds bad.
We're there to deliver somebodyelse's baby.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
Yes, we'll reframe that.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
We're there to deliver.
We like to say that we'remidwives for commercials.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
We deliver someone else's baby.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
So we're there to execute on a vision.
But Dawn Dusk was one of ourbig personal creative projects
during that time and we got toreturn to it and hone in our own
voice during that time.
And then we've had fun sideprojects.
We did a short film called OtisDream in the middle of all that
(38:34):
right around the election.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
Yeah, I don't know if that was quite a side project.
That was something we did,let's see, post-production was
happening at that time, so itwas kind of in Meredith's hands
during that time, so we wereable to really like yeah, focus.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Focus in on our stream.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
But Otis' stream was also really fast.
It was like a couple months andthen it was done, even though
it was a pretty major, hefty,hefty undertaking.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
But I think Dawn Desk really informed a lot of our
creative growth during that time.
A lot of things we got to doand in it we see manifest in a
lot of other skills and waysthat we operate creatively in
our professional lives.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't know if there islike a specific project idea
that came out of making DawnDusk, but there was a lot of
things that we learned during it, Even to this day.
Like I just I directed thiscampaign called Women's Planning
for Walgreens earlier this yearand it was interview-based,
(39:43):
interviewing real women aboutthe different things that
they've gone through in thedifferent stages of life like
medically, like hormonally, withtheir bodies and one of the
clients on the job actually saidwow, I could listen to you
interview people all day.
And I was like, well, that'sprobably because of Dawn Dust,
(40:06):
because I literally interviewedShelly for hours on end and
learned a lot about how tointerview people and how to ask
questions, how to make peoplefeel comfortable.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
And how to ask questions with a story in mind
too.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, yeah, I feel I totally hogged this whole thing.
No, no.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You had amazing questions.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I'll pay you later.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Thank you, Blue and Jason, for taking the time to
join us on this show.
Speaker 5 (40:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Great, we're going to take afew minutes to fill our glasses
and get ready to imbibe moreafter this.
The Blue Whiskey IndependentFilm Festival exhibits short and
feature-length motion picturesthat utilize story elements in a
new and exciting way.
Our official selections are acarefully assembled blend of
(40:56):
imaginative, sophisticated andfull-bodied stories.
This is what our namerepresents BWIF.
Audiences expect to experiencecharacter-driven, independent
cinema that is fueled by thefilmmakers' passion for the art
of visual storytelling.
Filmmakers can expect anintimate festival experience
(41:17):
where their personal story isvalued as much as the one
projected on the big screen.
I'm Jonathan Sealeck and I'mhere along with Trisha Leggett
(41:40):
and.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
Michael.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Nguyen.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
We are discussing Dawn Dusk, enjoying this podcast
.
Please subscribe or follow uson all of your favorite podcast
providers to get new episodes assoon as we release them.
Rate and leave us a review tohelp the show reach that larger
audience.
And you can also follow Ibibecinema on facebook, instagrams
and the threads.
So we, we just had our firstfilmmakers.
(42:04):
Uh on, uh, the, the cast uh sothe cast I know yeah, right,
they're on the show.
They're on the show.
I want to be in the show.
Um, I, I, I think that blue andjason were were absolutely
fantastic.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Uh, individuals to have, uh, what a wonderful
they've already spoiled us andnow we're like, oh, this is easy
I wonder how much of that wasbecause, as documentary, uh
filmmakers they understand uhwhat.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
What is a good question and what is a answer?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Or how to find an answer to a question that you
were like.
But what was the question?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Well, I do think and, listeners, I'm sure you would
agree too, I think that Trishais much harsher on herself as an
interviewer.
I think you asked fantasticquestions.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Just as her interview portion that she's hard on
herself, for I think if therewas a movie made about me,
People think it was a canadianfilm because it would just be
sorry question mark.
Sorry, I am like one eighthcanadian.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
So well you know it's it's, you know it's strong the
canadian is strong in this oneokay, and I'm so glad that they
talked about this uh, which wasguided by by one of your
questions, trisha when uh shellygoes out to lake michigan and
(43:28):
beautiful, beautiful it was likesix o'clock in the morning,
which makes sense uh, they'reasking like these more pointed
questions to like why, why, youknow why is is dawn and dusk so
important to you and all of thatwhen we were discussing in the
interview.
It reminded me of this interviewwith Tom Hanks with a bunch of
(43:49):
actors I think it was like anactor's round table and he's
talking about how, when you,when you think that things are
not going well, things are bad.
When you think that things arenot going well, things are bad,
just remember that this, tooshall pass.
You think things are goingreally awesome.
You think you're doing a reallygreat job you think you're on
top of the world.
Just remember this too shallpass, and it just reminded me of
(44:14):
this thought process.
To get you through hard timesis just knowing that time is
always going to march forwardand this moment will pass.
It may not be overnight, but itwas a very clear answer to that
question that the filmmakerswere asking, while at the same
(44:34):
time giving you such a beautifulvisual representation of that,
she does such an amazing job ofsharing her spirituality.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Yes, her faith.
Her faith in that moment thatyou are drawn in and can
empathize immediately and it'sprobably something we've heard
before, but you can hearsomething so many times and it
doesn't click or it's adifferent way, but I love the
way she said God's love isconsistent, right?
He's going to say over and overhe's always there, god is always
(45:06):
there, and part of proving thatto us is he put it into the
design, right?
So the reminder that you willget through this is the dawn,
and I brought out like thisgoofy book earlier because it
reminded me of something that Ihad noted in here I don't know
who said this and it's faith isthe bird that feels the light
(45:29):
and sings when the dawn is stilldark.
And I immediately thought ofthat when she's talking about
her faith, and I also love that.
It wasn't specific, it wasn'tlike this religion and
denomination or anything likethat.
And then there are so manydifferent shots of the sky, and
(45:49):
so this is a visual of how wesee that, of that presence of
faith, especially like at thepoint where you know you get
everything in silhouette and italmost looks like charcoal
against the sky.
It's just beautiful.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Like it doesn't even silhouette and it almost looks
like charcoal against the sky.
It's just beautiful.
It doesn't even look, real itlooks like a painting, but it's
real To that point.
I think the first time that Isaw it I was surprised by how we
propelled into discussing faith, but what I loved about it so
much is I never felt like it waspushing any sort of agenda or
(46:22):
anything like that.
It was just this is part ofthis person's life.
This is something that's very,very important to them.
It's one of the things thatguides them.
Like a lot of people, it feltlike anybody who's agnostic, I
still feel, could very muchrelate to everything that she
was saying.
They could apply it to theirown lives in a different way, I
(46:42):
think, very easily.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Well, and I love how she was such an authentic
individual to be that vulnerableand that authentic.
But it's the unapologeticauthenticity.
This is just who she is.
She doesn't shy away fromtalking about her faith, and
then the same with her art, andwhen she talks about how she's
creating these things, she doessuch an amazing job of
(47:04):
explaining the process.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Like a teacher.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
The artist in me was just like.
I love listening to her talkabout it.
It's a religious experience,Right?
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
And so that the two are next to each other.
It was, it was.
It was very beautiful.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I really like the scene when she is taking a look
at her first bag, when she'staking that out.
And like she flat out says youknow, this is bad, this is
ridiculous.
I don't know why I did this,this is and I'm looking at it
and I'm going looks like a coolbag.
You know, like I don't knowwhat she sees, but I can apply
that as an artist in other ways.
(47:41):
I can totally see how I wouldpick apart something that others
wouldn't notice.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Then, like how she started out with cardboard she
had to make everything out ofcardboard and how, like her
mother would like Shawshank itout of the closet, which is like
we're just going to take alittle bit out and nobody will
know and just get rid of it.
And just get rid of it becauseotherwise it will take over the
house, right?
And I was like, oh my God,that's Elizabeth, like my kid.
(48:07):
We have a cardboard kid and sheis constantly like building
things out of apartments forstuffed animals.
They have their own studioapartments, but uh yeah, studio
apartments, but uh, yeah.
When she talked about all thethe cardboard, I was like, oh, I
get it, I feel for her mom.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
I'm like yes, I do that as documentary filmmakers
them coming into shelly's life,the comparison that they made to
being free therapy yes, shellyyears of free therapy super
fascinated by that.
It's like free therapy withoutthe.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I'm sorry, our time is up it's the we're good, we
can keep going.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Are you good, I got more it made me think like man,
if that's not already an ideasomewhere documentary therapy
that should be like a companytherapy you get free therapy,
but then everybody else gets tosee your journey and that is
that is how you pay for it.
That's very cathartic.
(49:06):
Let's see.
You said you're feeling thisway.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
But let's refer back to this tape, the game tape at
the same time like, oh my god,the NDAs for that whole
situation oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,that would be whole situation.
Yeah, no, maybe not doc therapydoc, doc, doc, doc, doc, docs
(49:31):
yeah, we need to, like I need tomail myself something for doc
docs oh boy, mental health is afragile thing.
We've lost ours long ago.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Can you tell listeners?
Yes.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Dawn Dusk is now available to stream worldwide on
a variety of platforms,including Amazon Prime, tubi and
Hoopla, among others.
Visit dawnduskfilmcom using thelink in our show notes to learn
more about how and where youcan stream the film.
Cheers.
Dawn Dusk was the closing night feature of the
2020-25.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
2020-2025.
Shh.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's that cotton candy.
It messes with the time.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yeah, it's all that sugar.
The space-time continuum yeah,greetings and or salutations,
(00:38):
and welcome to the Imbibe CinemaPodcast.
I'm Jonathan C Leggett, alongwith my co-host.
Trisha Leggett as well as ourproducer, Michael Newens, and
we've been really excited aboutthis particular episode because
things are going to be a littlebit different.
Unlike our previous editions,Today the episode will be
spoiler-free-ish.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Light.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Spoiler-free light.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Spoiler-free adjacent light spoiler free light
spoiler free adjacent.
We are thrilled to have twoguests on the show, both
partners in life and uhfantastic directing duo, who
have just released theiraward-winning documentary dawn
dusk on digital earlier thismonth.
And if you have not seen dawndusk yet, please find the link
(01:24):
in our show notes to learn moreabout how and where you can see
it.
This film follows Shelley Look,an artist who specializes in
designing handbags, and theoverwhelming grief that she and
her family experience after themurder of her sister In the
years that follow Shelley'sjourney towards healing forces
(01:46):
her to rediscover who she is asan artist, leading to an
unexpected revelation.
Now, dawn Dusk was the closingnight feature presentation at
the 2025 Blue WhiskeyIndependent Film Festival
earlier this year, and it didwin Best of Illinois.
So we're going to be bringingour guests in just a few minutes
(02:06):
and then break down ourreaction to both the film as
well as the interview after thebreak.
But first let's talk about thedrink that we have paired with
this film.
It's delicious, it is.
It is quite tasty, the hit ofsugar, and you get to actually,
you know decide how much sugaror sweetness you want in it.
(02:27):
The drink that we have pairedwith this episode is called Dusk
Till Dawn.
The cocktail contains blueberryvodka, orange juice, lemonade
and blue cotton candy, and againyou can rip off a larger or
smaller hunk depending on yoursweetness taste.
Recipe as well as pictures areavailable on our website,
(02:50):
imbibecinemacom.
Let's get to it and welcome ourguests.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
I'm Blue, I'm.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Jason.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
We're the directors of Dawn Dusk and, yeah, we're
happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Wonderful.
In fact, I know somebody isvery eager to get into said
questions.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Well, we're looking forward to it.
Before we started recording, Ihad talked about marriage and
that transition was going to bethere, naturally but it's gone
now.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Did you want to re-pitch about marriage and how,
now that you're married to me,you're just tired?
Speaker 3 (03:23):
No, obviously, we're so in sync.
We can finish each other'ssentences, but how did it come
about?
What is your origin story?
I should say on working withyour partner at home and at work
.
How did that work out for youguys?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
We first started working together on a music
video that we did basicallyright out of college.
Yeah, which has never seemed tolike me, it's bad, it wasn't
very good but it was really funto make.
And I came on as a productiondesigner for it actually, but
then kind of ended up kind ofco-directing it with Jason.
(04:04):
And then he was like, well, whydon't you help me with the edit
?
And then there was all of thesemoments where you know I'd show
up to his house to edit andhe's like, oh, do you want?
I made tilapia and here's whitewine, and you want to listen to
this Bon Iver album?
And I'm like what's happening?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
We called them accident.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Yeah, so that continued for a while until he
actually asked me out, and yeah.
And then we dated and then, youknow, for a while in the
beginning we were kind ofworking mostly separately.
I was doing production designand he was doing camera, but
then on the side we were doingstuff together, because both of
(04:50):
our dreams and our goals wasalways directing, um, and so
kind of working in these otheraspects of film was just like a
means to work in film whilebuilding up our portfolios.
And then we kind of launchedourselves as directors and,
through a party, invited all thepeople that we had worked with
(05:14):
before and said here's ourportfolio as directors, please
hire us.
And I think we just wanted todo that because we didn't really
want to compete against eachother, and we also found that we
had a lot that each of us wasbringing to the table, that we
were able to, you know, fill inthe blanks for each other and
(05:35):
collaborate together.
We, I think, are moving intomore of places where we're now
more established in our owndirecting styles and are kind of
starting to even direct, uh,separately a little bit more and
but still like supporting eachother in that okay and for this
(05:56):
project, how long, how muchfootage like.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I know documentaries.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
The story kind of comes to you at, but how much of
it is guided?
Yeah, it's like 800 questionsin one.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Oh, I can answer them all, I'll just let you.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
What is documentary to you?
How do you Wow?
What does it mean?
Can you tell me a little bitabout your process?
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yeah, well, start to finish.
Finish being the movie that wasjust released, it's not
finished.
We still have a lot of work todo, but let's just call that the
finish Start to Finish, themovie's been released.
Nine years, more or less fromstart to finish.
(06:36):
We started filming with Shelleyin late 2016.
We met her actually at an openstudio.
We were kind of running inparallel circles and, through
some friends of friends, we met,uh her at an open studio that
she was throwing um for herlatest collection, which was the
dawn dust collection, and we uhwent to this event to go check
(06:58):
it out.
We didn't know much about it atthe time.
Vimeo was popular and littlemaker documentaries were popular
and everyone was like aimingfor a staff pick.
So we were in that.
We were also like caught up inthat trend and hype and we also
were getting asks fromcommercial agencies.
You know like, hey, we'relooking for this kind of like
high end docu style work and inorder to get that kind of work,
(07:21):
you need to kind of have it onyour portfolio.
So we were looking for somekind of project to fill in that
gap and when we walked into herstudio, it was kind of
mesmerizing.
It was very minimal butbeautiful.
Shelly was a really magneticperson and we said to ourselves,
maybe Shelly would let us filma little like five minute maker
documentary about her.
So we asked her.
(07:41):
She said, yeah, let's do it,let's talk about it, let's get
coffee and we can chat aboutnext steps.
So a few days later, overcoffee, we asked her like how
did you get started?
You know doing what you'redoing?
And she told us the story of hersister who had been murdered
and how she was now donating 10%of her proceeds to WINGS and
(08:05):
also donating 10% of her time toWINGS as a domestic violence
shelter in Chicago.
And it was like a verysurprising answer to hear the
story of what she had gonethrough and where she was at.
And we started to feel likethere might be something deeper
but we didn't know in thatmoment that we had a
feature-length film on our handsbe something deeper, but we
didn't know in that moment thatwe had a feature-length film on
(08:25):
our hands.
But we started filming and overtime, you know, we popped in
for some B-roll here and poppedin for some B-roll there and
asked to you know, have a longinterview with her and maybe
after there's like maybe four orfive days of filming over the
course of a month, we were likeI think there's something more
here.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Let's let the story be as long as it needs to be, uh
, and then wind it up with a 90minute feature film on her hands
yeah, I, I think another partof that that was like really, I
think why it was so intriguingwas when she answered our
question with the story of hersister.
She answered it like, not inlike a uh, this really hard
(09:03):
thing happened to me and likewhat was me?
Kind of way.
She said it almost like thisreally hard thing happened, but
like there's power in sharing,like this story and like now I'm
turning it into good and thatwas like what was so yeah
(09:25):
turning it into good and thatwas like what was.
So, yeah, like that's a reallygood way really kind of jaw
dropping to us.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, uh, you asked how much footage.
We had about 80 hours offootage, yeah wow, michael,
you're the resident editor.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
It's a lot of footage yeah, we, we thought, we
thought we, we thought we hadwon the footage amount.
And then we went and saw thedocumentary Wildcat and they had
a thousand hours of footage.
And we were like okay, I guessit's not that much.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
We'll never brag about how much footage we had
again, but it was for us, Ithink, as an independently
funded documentary.
For a very small film With justus and one editor and an
assistant editor for a shortstint and well, we had an
editing intern who helped.
Becca was great too.
So just over that, over thosetime we had about three and a
(10:16):
half, four years ofpost-production.
You know, we trimmed that 80hours down to like a four hour
assembly and then took that to athree and a half hour assembly
and then two and a half hourrough cut and then, you know, a
hour in like eight, like youknow, 50 minute fine cut and
then around 100 minutes.
We did some test screenings andwere able to trim that last 10
(10:36):
minutes off and really nail itdown.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
yeah, yeah, well, I mean for me, uh, I am not
technologically savvy in any way, and they can speak to this,
but technology changes soquickly.
Cameras have come so far, soit's like nine years of footage,
and how much technology changesover that time is just kind of
(10:59):
one of those like oh my God, andyet the film is beautiful.
And the way that it's edited isamazing.
I I am a sucker for symbolismand I love the use of light
throughout the film.
I love the way how you movelight across the room and and
and speeding it up and uh, thethe shots that were at dawn or
(11:19):
dusk, um, but um.
I think one of my um favoriteswas how the light in her studio
would move in these slits across, and that was.
That was pretty awesome.
Another thing is like there wasa point where she was talking
(11:40):
about getting through the angerof what she'd gone through and
at the same time, you'rewatching her get a tattoo and
how it's like.
oh, this is just imprintedliterally on your skin as you're
talking about getting rid ofthis pain and carry it with you
and all that, and it was justlike, oh, I love it.
These are two things like righthere at the same time.
So that then leads me down thisother red.
Yeah my train of my train ofthought has no track.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I apologize oh, I love it, let's follow it okay.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
so at what point do you get comfortable being in the
room while things that are uh,happening, that like, for
instance, when, um, she'stalking to her mother, uh, and
going over things and and thisis very vulnerable, very
intimate, emotional moment andit's done very respectfully but
(12:27):
I mean, I can only imagine likebeing in the room.
How is that from a filmmaker'spoint of?
Speaker 5 (12:35):
view, because all throughout filming with Shelly
and all throughout the process,we always made sure to ask
consent and we always gave her aheads up of like hey, we want
to talk to you about the murder.
(12:55):
So, just so you know, we're notcatching you off guard and
that's not always how some docsare made.
But I think it's interestingbecause even as we're going
through our festival run andsubmitting to some festivals, we
were getting some questionslike what is your relationship
(13:19):
to your subject?
People wanted to know do youhave consent to tell this story,
which I think is really, um,like, actually really good,
because you know the it just itkeeps, um, the person in mind,
like care for the person, andthat was what we wanted to
extend to shelly, was we wantedto, you know, make sure that she
(13:42):
wasn't being taken advantage ofthroughout it.
But so that moment that youbrought up of when you know her
mom starts crying in there inthe room, I think that was a
really interesting momentbecause I think my gut reaction
was like to give them space.
But then it was like well, no,like this is what you know they
(14:04):
have.
They have given us permissionto enter into the, into this
vulnerable space with them, andso you know, we stayed and just
just allowed whatever needed tohappen to happen and then, I
think, afterwards just checkedin with them and was that OK
that we were there.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
We were strategic.
Uh, we spent a lot of time withshelly before we approached her
about talking to her parents ordoing a home visit, and when we
did that, we wanted to havehave earned the trust of shelly
to advocate on behalf of us, tobe there, you know, and to
connect with her family, becauseyou know, she was our point of
(14:45):
contact.
And but I remember that momentvery distinctly because we kind
of had we were just filming someB-roll.
There wasn't, we weren't, I hadalmost put the camera down and
we only had one camera up whichwas just me and you had, like
gone around the hallway.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
And the scene sort of started to shift and I started
to lock in and I just tried tonot breathe and to not make
myself known at all.
And you'll see, there's amoment actually where I'm up
high and I don't really like it.
I didn't want to be up high, Iactually wanted to be at my hips
so I could be eye level, wantedto be at my hip so I could be
(15:26):
eye level and I, um, as asshelly reaches for these paper
towels in the scene to like giveto her mother to help wipe her
eyes.
I have to move out of the waybecause I'm like over the paper
towels and I use that moment tosort of shift low and get to eye
level.
But there's no cuts becausethere's no other camera running
and any sound, any getting a bcamera up, anything like that.
You know blue's right aroundthe corner and I'm looking and
making eye contact.
We didn't want to ruin thismoment, not only for our sake
(15:49):
for being able to film it, butwe wanted to let them have this
moment.
I think there's kind of aduality in a documentary like
this, where we're trying to getwhat we need but we also are
trying to let things naturallytranspire.
And so much later we talked tothem and they said I didn't even
remember you being in the room.
And I think that's aninteresting thing because I just
, you know, was I'd made myselfvery small and you weren't even
(16:13):
really in the room, you werejust monitoring audio next door.
You don't even have a monitorup at the time because we
weren't really in go mode.
It just sort of happened and wejust had to get that moment,
and I'm glad we did, because Ithink it was a powerful and
intimate moment.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, and I will say there wasn't ever
moments where we were gettingshelly's like edits or eyes or
anything like she's she when shesaw the film.
She saw the completed film likeas is, and you know, and we
were like hope you like it.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah um, she had no creative involvement in the
making of it.
Consent just means like hey, isit okay that we're here while
we're filming?
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, exactly, and I could see that, because we know
that she has other siblings andwe know that her sister lived
out of state and so if you wereto follow that story and as many
documentaries then become aboutthat incident or give all this
(17:12):
background on it, and that's notthere and I've I.
Uh, that's where you kind ofexpect it to go as a viewer, at
least in my experience youexpect, oh, we're going to hear
all about this other woman'slife, and we didn't.
And I really liked that becauseit's really.
It is her story, it is herpoint of view and she's taking
control of how her life movesforward and, like the film is
(17:38):
shaped around that goal and thespirituality.
That's the other thing.
She talks about her faith andwe don't see her at church, even
though she's talked aboutchurch.
We don't need a church to havefaith, right.
So in the beginning you havethese moments where she just
talks about church.
We don't need a church to havefaith, right.
So in the beginning you havethese moments where she just
talks about being an artist andcreating and how.
(18:01):
She's like, oh, I can'tarticulate, I have a hard time
finding the right words.
I'm like you are so articulate,that is so well said.
I couldn't say anything closeto what she says.
And I'm like but I completelyunderstand what you're saying
and I agree to what she says.
And I'm like but I completelyunderstand what you're saying
and I agree, and all of that.
And then it makes me go well,gee, I know she didn't just sit
(18:22):
down and go.
Well, I'm gonna tell you allabout art, especially
considering, in my process,considering, I have a hard time
verbalizing it.
So how do you lead intoquestions to and then be and get
those questions to expoundwithout going you know, oh, yes,
no, how do you?
How do you get that out of asubject?
(18:43):
Because obviously I suck atasking questions.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Not at all.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Oh, that's a great question.
That's a good question.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Yeah, I mean we started pretty so I think in the
beginning we we just had somuch that we wanted to know
about her and we had so many.
In the beginning it was kind oflike we were wondering what we
were going to focus onspecifically.
And to your observation of whatyou just said about how, you
(19:14):
know, we didn't follow her tochurch, we didn't follow her
sister.
The focus really is on her asan artist and that is what you
know.
We ended up kind of honing inon and leaning into in our
interviews with her.
But in the beginning we wouldjust have these.
She was such a good sport.
We'd have these very longinterviews.
(19:36):
We had like three hour longinterviews with her where we
just sat and chatted for a longtime and in the beginning we
were asking her these kind ofbroad questions like what is
quality to you?
You know, what does it mean toyou to have a quality?
You, you know, to make qualityart?
(19:56):
I think at one point, you know,jason asked her about art and
what is like the meaning of art.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I asked her what is good taste?
And she rolled her eyes yeah,because they're very broad.
I mean, we also asked her a lotof just background questions,
but they were.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
We were building up a layer of, like, uh, trust and
conversation and rapport betweenthe three of us and just
getting her comfortable and youknow she felt comfortable enough
to like laugh at some of herquestions, which was great, um
and so but yeah, we those thingsled to sort of like you, you,
(20:33):
you joking say like what is themeaning of art, you know, like,
and and then she laughs, shelaughs, and then she tells you,
and then she thinks about it,and it may not be the exact
answer, because I don't thinkyou can really define that, I
don't think you can truly answerthat, but you can answer it for
yourself in some way.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And then that goes somewhere and that leads to
these deep thoughts, things thatyou think and feel but you
maybe don't always articulate.
And I think that being willingto sort of be open to big
concepts but also like beingable to sort of dive and follow
threads, like very much likeyou're doing with sort of like
taking your train of thought,but then you get somewhere where
(21:12):
you kind of like needle into aspecific point and it gives us a
really good space to answer.
That's like a great question.
I love that question.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
So so those questions , you know, became more and more
um, thoughtful and intentionaland specific as time went on.
And I think a great example isthe walk and talk that we do
with her by the lake side.
In the film that was, thatinterview came after having some
(21:46):
other conversations you knowwith her from the other
interviews where and actuallyyou do see this in the film
there's like another interviewwith when she has the shaved
head, where she's um in herstudio, where she's saying she's
talking about the inspirationbehind the bags and she's
talking about how she's superinspired by sunrise and sunset.
(22:07):
And after that interview wewere like, okay, yeah, yeah,
you're inspired by sunrise andsunset.
It's very pretty, like it'sgreat.
But you know we were kind oflike, but why?
But why you're inspired bysunrise and sunset.
It's very pretty, like it'sgreat.
But you know we were kind oflike, but why, but why are you
inspired by sunrise and sunset?
And so then we took her to thelakeside and we said can you
talk to us about what dawn anddusk actually mean to you?
(22:30):
And that's where the chat aboutlike how it was the most
faithful thing for her duringsuch a dark time of her grieving
the loss of her sister.
Going through the trial, youknow dealing with all the anger
and the questions and you knowso.
Then we saw, like that, thatdeeper part of it come out,
(22:54):
knowing what it's like to shooton the water.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Uh, the wind factor.
Uh, I'm impressed like youdon't.
You don't hear uh what?
Yeah, michael's like oh, thewind when it's off the lake.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I've shot on lake michigan several times and and
all adr always, always, every,every time.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I think it was just a really quiet day.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
It was a quiet day on a lob mic.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
It was also like six in the morning.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, it was six in the morning.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, when you talk about consent and permission,
there are places I don't know ifyou necessarily knew you were
going, like Italy, yeah, andfilming at the school or filming
at the airport or filming on aplane.
Like, did you run into anyissues where you were able to
film A couple of things?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
So for Italy.
If it feels abrupt in the film,it's because it was for us too,
and I think it was for Shelleytoo.
She was like you know what?
I'm going to enhance my craftin Italy and we were like, oh
okay.
And so we were like, well,maybe we should go.
And so we went and we justcalled the school ahead of time.
(24:05):
We actually let Shelly go for afew months before and then over
that time, once she got alittle more comfortable, it just
gave us the contact and we wereable to sort of arrange school
is very excited, very excited.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
They were like yeah, pumped so that was easy.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
That was easy.
The um airport was just takingthe camera and stripping it down
to its smallest shape and justlooking like a tourist, and um
blue had a little bag with awireless audio recorder very
small and we had a mic on herand we just tried to look like
we weren't doing anything.
Um and I like popped out alittle monopod and when we were
(24:44):
in the um the terminal justthrew it down and just sat there
quietly and just we just talkedand it just looked like I had a
camera and no one bothered usPopping onto the plane.
I think this is okay to say theone fake thing in this whole
movie.
It's okay, the one fake thingin the whole movie.
(25:06):
We couldn't fly to Florence withShelley, but we wanted to get
on a plane, we wanted to gothrough that whole experience.
So like maybe three or fourdays or maybe a week before she
was going to leave for Florence,we booked a flight to
Cincinnati and back in the sameday together and just flew to
Cincinnati together and talkedall day and then flew back and
(25:28):
talked in the terminals and onthe plane and then got what we
needed to represent her leavingfor Italy.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Yeah, and it wasn't, like you know, so far removed.
It was like she was gettingready to leave.
So when we asked her you know,talk about where you're going,
what you're about to do it wasstill like authentic.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
It was imminent.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, yes, yeah, right, and then you have all
that footage that you can findwhat you need, because otherwise
it's like the plane and the mapand the dots and Exactly what
is it Like Sleepless in Seattle?
Where they're just like do youknow this, oh yeah.
Sleepless City.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I was thinking of the Muppets, but oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah, travel by map, travel bymap.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, no, yeah.
No.
Michael and john have their ownuh history of uh airports and
filming, and was the the shockmount was the shock mount.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
We're going through the you know tsa and this tsa
agent waves us over.
Uh, we were.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
We're flying out to la, to uh one shot it was the
other half of a phone call.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, we had somebody in LA but we're flying out
there and this TSA agent wavesMichael over and he's like is
this your bag?
And we're like, yeah, and hegoes, what the fuck is in here?
Speaker 5 (26:51):
And we're like I'm sorry what.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And he's like what is this?
And he pulls out and it's likeyou know, you know it's the
handle and it's like asennheiser shock mount right and
and we're like, oh, it's ashock mount.
He's like what is?
That what is, and we're likeokay so you, you put the
microphone in there and that wayit doesn't you know.
And he's like, oh good, becauseI'm like these guys are not
bringing a crossbow on here andi'm'm like oh okay, I can see
(27:14):
that.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
No, it's like no sorry sorry.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
I mean in that TSA agent's defense.
A shock mount does sound veryscary.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I mean, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Everything that we bring.
We have a boom pole, we have ashotgun microphone.
There was a red camera calledthe weapon for a while and I was
bringing a red weapon throughsecurity once and they opened it
up and it's a square boxlabeled weapon right on top and
there's nothing you can do aboutit.
It's big branding and they'relike what is this?
(27:47):
And I'm like it's a camera andthey're like why does it say
weapon on it?
Speaker 5 (27:51):
You're like I don't know.
Talk to red.
This is not me.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Oh, man, yep, you're like I don't know, this is not
yeah, yeah, you know, oh man yep, that's great I love how
everything got revealed in a um,in a layered way, where it you
know it kept you wanting to knowmore, but without like, not
holding it back and being likeI'm not gonna tell until yeah,
we really have to credit oureditor, slash co-producer,
(28:20):
meredith Mantic, with thatexecuting it, you know, in this
very technical way, where shejust like knew exactly what
pacing we needed and like wherethings needed to go when we
(28:42):
ditched our chronological cutand decided we've literally
called it like we've editedbased on themes.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
that's literally what we were doing and I'm glad that
came across.
That is what gave us thisfreedom to sort of start
ditching stuff and, you know,like as interesting, as
interesting as, like some ofShelley's, like family
background and like journey fromcollege and different things
were when we started that theme,we kind of were able to sort of
(29:07):
hone in on the things that wefelt like made the most sense
for this story Because, like yousaid, there's so many ways we
could have taken this and wereally wanted to be about an
artist, um processing her griefthrough her work and that's how
you know you see the structure.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
then, um, reflect that kind of grief process,
because grief is very non-linearand you know you're not going
from point a to point b, justlike creation sometimes, like
the creating process is alsononlinear at times, um, and so
in a way, the structure of thefilm reflects both her creative
(29:49):
process and her grief journeythrough that.
So, yeah, so that that was kindof like the thematic motivation
for editing it that way, Ithink.
I think when we went fromthrough the test screening, what
actually ended up happening waswe've reordered a few things,
(30:12):
like we, we, there was stillsome stuff that needed to be
even reordered even more, andthen we, then we trimmed down a
little bit here and there, um,but the last 10 minutes was
really like a minute here, a fewminutes off this section yeah
here, yeah, I'm trying toremember if I don't remember, if
(30:34):
there was anything that anylike big chunk that got lost,
yeah, I think in that four hourversion it was just sort of
everything.
It was like her whole life and Ithink we were able to sort of
focus it but one thing that umwas kind of sad to lose or that
we ended up not having time forin the end was actually more of
(30:56):
Dave, her husband's, interview,where he actually talked more
about like his process offorgiveness and how you know,
after the murder he had a lot ofanger, you know come up and at
the time, like they were onlyengaged and, yeah, he talked
about how you know he kind ofreverted into like social
(31:22):
justice.
Like my, the people that I loveare being harmed, like I'm I'm
upset and I'm pissed.
And so when they went down tosee her parents, you know he was
kind of coming in with thatenergy, coming in with that
(31:43):
energy and he said that shelly'sdad, um, just like bear, hugged
him and just was like son, likeno, this is like we need you
here, we need you to like bepresent with us, and he and they
just like broke down and weptand as he's telling us this
story, he's like crying and I'mcrying and jason's crying and
we're all crying and I meanrightly so.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
It's such a profound moment, even third party, and I
think that those were sad.
There were some things thatwere sad, like that to lose, but
it was, you know, shelley'sstory and that's where we tried
to focus it in on.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, it's a powerful story and also it's kind of
interesting that, like thecompany, how you see how like
this was her passion, this washer thing, she knew already what
the name was going to be andthat this was all.
And then, all of a sudden,after Italy, it's just, it's so
perfect, how, all of the how itall worked out that you would
(32:37):
think you planned it.
It was so well done.
So next question you spent nineyears with this subject.
How do you go from beingfollowing somebody around all
the time to like and goodbye?
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Yeah, that that's a really good question.
I think you know it was.
It was interesting asfilmmakers to spend so much time
with someone.
But I think then also reflecton and process, you know, the
needing to also respect thatperson's time.
(33:14):
And you know it is strange tosit in here here's someone you
know.
It is strange to sit and hearsomeone you know share so much
with you and then feel like youmaybe want to share back but
that's not what the role is.
You know that's not what it is.
And like Shelley likes to jokethat it was three years of free
(33:36):
therapy and so you know, and andin some ways I mean that really
is kind of what our rolesreflect as documentary directors
is you do, kind of it issimilar to the role of a
(34:03):
therapist, where you are mostlythere to listen and point out
observations, but ultimately you, you know you're letting the
other person figure things outfor themselves.
You know not all therapies likethat, but in in some like talk
therapy cases.
So you know it was, it was likeinteresting in that sense.
But you know we are still we'restill friends with Shelly and
(34:23):
and have a sweet connection toher.
And you know, obviously rightnow, as we're promoting the film
, she she's been speaking hereand there about the film on
different places and you knowwe're giving her a heads up
about things that we're doing incase she wants to reshare them
and stuff like that.
Um, she also when, when wefinished the film, she gave us
(34:45):
these little bracelets that saydawn and dusk on them and yeah,
that's awesome and it was.
It was really just really sweet, and so she's been.
It's been very special to haveher champion us as filmmakers as
(35:09):
we are telling her story.
So she's yeah, she's just she'sa big fan of us as artists as
much as we are fans of her asartists yeah, there was a time
where we weren't really talkingvery much, especially over the
pandemic.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
I actually remember when we sent her an update she
was like, oh, I didn't know ifthis was still happening not
really anything because of her,but just just because we were.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
You know, it was the pandemic and we were trying to
figure stuff out on our end.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
It both delayed us and gave us the bandwidth to
really hone in on the edit.
So it was both good and badduring that time, but it was.
It maybe was all a littlelonger than we anticipated.
You know we were working withour editor remotely and it was
hard but it was good.
But then, you know, once wewere able to kind of get back in
(36:05):
person and once we actually gotout to LA and we could really
hone in with Meredith in person,that's when we started making
real progress.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
And then Silas.
Yeah, we brought Silas as ourcomposer which was also a really
fun part of the process.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I listen to the soundtrack quite often.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
Oh, that's so sweet, it is my go-to.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
It is my go-to especially when I've had a
really stressful day and I gofor a walk and it just kind of
gets me in the right frame ofmind and then I want to watch
the movie again.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Oh my goodness, Wow, that frame of mind.
And then I want to watch themovie again.
Oh my goodness, wow, we'regonna.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm definitely gonna tell us that, yes, I was gonna
love that I love that, oh, whenyou're working on something, you
kind of have an idea, or youcome up with an idea like, oh,
this is my next, this is, thisis what's coming up next did you
have anything that came in?
Uh, while you were working onthis project, you're like, okay,
we're gonna, we're gonna putthis aside because this is
something on the horizon for us.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
We are commercial film directors by trade, so Dawn
Desk was primarily self-funded.
We didn't have the luxury ofworking on it full time, so we
had to make work and make aliving.
So we were making commercialscorporate video and commercials
for brands all throughout thattime, because that's how we made
(37:19):
money and that's how we stillmake money.
So that that.
But those projects are short.
They they come and they go in awithin a month to three months.
Um, and we could.
It was always so nice to beable to pop back over and film
at shelly studio or do somethingwith the doc in between or when
we could during those types ofprojects, because it was our own
(37:39):
project.
I think that commercials arefilled with deadlines and a lot
of voices and while we aredirectors and we get to have a
lot of creative say, they aren'tnecessarily our babies.
We're there to execute somebodyelse's baby and to make sure
that sounds bad.
We're there to deliver somebodyelse's baby.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
Yes, we'll reframe that.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
We're there to deliver.
We like to say that we'remidwives for commercials.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
We deliver someone else's baby.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
So we're there to execute on a vision.
But Dawn Dusk was one of ourbig personal creative projects
during that time and we got toreturn to it and hone in our own
voice during that time.
And then we've had fun sideprojects.
We did a short film called OtisDream in the middle of all that
(38:34):
right around the election.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
Yeah, I don't know if that was quite a side project.
That was something we did,let's see, post-production was
happening at that time, so itwas kind of in Meredith's hands
during that time, so we wereable to really like yeah, focus.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
Focus in on our stream.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
But Otis' stream was also really fast.
It was like a couple months andthen it was done, even though
it was a pretty major, hefty,hefty undertaking.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
But I think Dawn Desk really informed a lot of our
creative growth during that time.
A lot of things we got to doand in it we see manifest in a
lot of other skills and waysthat we operate creatively in
our professional lives.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't know if there islike a specific project idea
that came out of making DawnDusk, but there was a lot of
things that we learned during it, Even to this day.
Like I just I directed thiscampaign called Women's Planning
for Walgreens earlier this yearand it was interview-based,
(39:43):
interviewing real women aboutthe different things that
they've gone through in thedifferent stages of life like
medically, like hormonally, withtheir bodies and one of the
clients on the job actually saidwow, I could listen to you
interview people all day.
And I was like, well, that'sprobably because of Dawn Dust,
(40:06):
because I literally interviewedShelly for hours on end and
learned a lot about how tointerview people and how to ask
questions, how to make peoplefeel comfortable.
Speaker 4 (40:18):
And how to ask questions with a story in mind
too.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeah, yeah, I feel I totally hogged this whole thing.
No, no.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
You had amazing questions.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I'll pay you later.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Thank you, Blue and Jason, for taking the time to
join us on this show.
Speaker 5 (40:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Great, we're going to take afew minutes to fill our glasses
and get ready to imbibe moreafter this.
The Blue Whiskey IndependentFilm Festival exhibits short and
feature-length motion picturesthat utilize story elements in a
new and exciting way.
Our official selections are acarefully assembled blend of
(40:56):
imaginative, sophisticated andfull-bodied stories.
This is what our namerepresents BWIF.
Audiences expect to experiencecharacter-driven, independent
cinema that is fueled by thefilmmakers' passion for the art
of visual storytelling.
Filmmakers can expect anintimate festival experience
(41:17):
where their personal story isvalued as much as the one
projected on the big screen.
I'm Jonathan Sealeck and I'mhere along with Trisha Leggett
(41:40):
and.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
Michael.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Nguyen.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
We are discussing Dawn Dusk, enjoying this podcast
.
Please subscribe or follow uson all of your favorite podcast
providers to get new episodes assoon as we release them.
Rate and leave us a review tohelp the show reach that larger
audience.
And you can also follow Ibibecinema on facebook, instagrams
and the threads.
So we, we just had our firstfilmmakers.
(42:04):
Uh on, uh, the, the cast uh sothe cast I know yeah, right,
they're on the show.
They're on the show.
I want to be in the show.
Um, I, I, I think that blue andjason were were absolutely
fantastic.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Uh, individuals to have, uh, what a wonderful
they've already spoiled us andnow we're like, oh, this is easy
I wonder how much of that wasbecause, as documentary, uh
filmmakers they understand uhwhat.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
What is a good question and what is a answer?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Or how to find an answer to a question that you
were like.
But what was the question?
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Well, I do think and, listeners, I'm sure you would
agree too, I think that Trishais much harsher on herself as an
interviewer.
I think you asked fantasticquestions.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Just as her interview portion that she's hard on
herself, for I think if therewas a movie made about me,
People think it was a canadianfilm because it would just be
sorry question mark.
Sorry, I am like one eighthcanadian.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
So well you know it's it's, you know it's strong the
canadian is strong in this oneokay, and I'm so glad that they
talked about this uh, which wasguided by by one of your
questions, trisha when uh shellygoes out to lake michigan and
(43:28):
beautiful, beautiful it was likesix o'clock in the morning,
which makes sense uh, they'reasking like these more pointed
questions to like why, why, youknow why is is dawn and dusk so
important to you and all of thatwhen we were discussing in the
interview.
It reminded me of this interviewwith Tom Hanks with a bunch of
(43:49):
actors I think it was like anactor's round table and he's
talking about how, when you,when you think that things are
not going well, things are bad.
When you think that things arenot going well, things are bad,
just remember that this, tooshall pass.
You think things are goingreally awesome.
You think you're doing a reallygreat job you think you're on
top of the world.
Just remember this too shallpass, and it just reminded me of
(44:14):
this thought process.
To get you through hard timesis just knowing that time is
always going to march forwardand this moment will pass.
It may not be overnight, but itwas a very clear answer to that
question that the filmmakerswere asking, while at the same
(44:34):
time giving you such a beautifulvisual representation of that,
she does such an amazing job ofsharing her spirituality.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Yes, her faith.
Her faith in that moment thatyou are drawn in and can
empathize immediately and it'sprobably something we've heard
before, but you can hearsomething so many times and it
doesn't click or it's adifferent way, but I love the
way she said God's love isconsistent, right?
He's going to say over and overhe's always there, god is always
(45:06):
there, and part of proving thatto us is he put it into the
design, right?
So the reminder that you willget through this is the dawn,
and I brought out like thisgoofy book earlier because it
reminded me of something that Ihad noted in here I don't know
who said this and it's faith isthe bird that feels the light
(45:29):
and sings when the dawn is stilldark.
And I immediately thought ofthat when she's talking about
her faith, and I also love that.
It wasn't specific, it wasn'tlike this religion and
denomination or anything likethat.
And then there are so manydifferent shots of the sky, and
(45:49):
so this is a visual of how wesee that, of that presence of
faith, especially like at thepoint where you know you get
everything in silhouette and italmost looks like charcoal
against the sky.
It's just beautiful.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Like it doesn't even silhouette and it almost looks
like charcoal against the sky.
It's just beautiful.
It doesn't even look, real itlooks like a painting, but it's
real To that point.
I think the first time that Isaw it I was surprised by how we
propelled into discussing faith, but what I loved about it so
much is I never felt like it waspushing any sort of agenda or
(46:22):
anything like that.
It was just this is part ofthis person's life.
This is something that's very,very important to them.
It's one of the things thatguides them.
Like a lot of people, it feltlike anybody who's agnostic, I
still feel, could very muchrelate to everything that she
was saying.
They could apply it to theirown lives in a different way, I
(46:42):
think, very easily.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Well, and I love how she was such an authentic
individual to be that vulnerableand that authentic.
But it's the unapologeticauthenticity.
This is just who she is.
She doesn't shy away fromtalking about her faith, and
then the same with her art, andwhen she talks about how she's
creating these things, she doessuch an amazing job of
(47:04):
explaining the process.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Like a teacher.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
The artist in me was just like.
I love listening to her talkabout it.
It's a religious experience,Right?
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
And so that the two are next to each other.
It was, it was.
It was very beautiful.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
I really like the scene when she is taking a look
at her first bag, when she'staking that out.
And like she flat out says youknow, this is bad, this is
ridiculous.
I don't know why I did this,this is and I'm looking at it
and I'm going looks like a coolbag.
You know, like I don't knowwhat she sees, but I can apply
that as an artist in other ways.
(47:41):
I can totally see how I wouldpick apart something that others
wouldn't notice.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Then, like how she started out with cardboard she
had to make everything out ofcardboard and how, like her
mother would like Shawshank itout of the closet, which is like
we're just going to take alittle bit out and nobody will
know and just get rid of it.
And just get rid of it becauseotherwise it will take over the
house, right?
And I was like, oh my God,that's Elizabeth, like my kid.
(48:07):
We have a cardboard kid and sheis constantly like building
things out of apartments forstuffed animals.
They have their own studioapartments, but uh yeah, studio
apartments, but uh, yeah.
When she talked about all thethe cardboard, I was like, oh, I
get it, I feel for her mom.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
I'm like yes, I do that as documentary filmmakers
them coming into shelly's life,the comparison that they made to
being free therapy yes, shellyyears of free therapy super
fascinated by that.
It's like free therapy withoutthe.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
I'm sorry, our time is up it's the we're good, we
can keep going.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Are you good, I got more it made me think like man,
if that's not already an ideasomewhere documentary therapy
that should be like a companytherapy you get free therapy,
but then everybody else gets tosee your journey and that is
that is how you pay for it.
That's very cathartic.
(49:06):
Let's see.
You said you're feeling thisway.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
But let's refer back to this tape, the game tape at
the same time like, oh my god,the NDAs for that whole
situation oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,that would be whole situation.
Yeah, no, maybe not doc therapydoc, doc, doc, doc, doc, docs
(49:31):
yeah, we need to, like I need tomail myself something for doc
docs oh boy, mental health is afragile thing.
We've lost ours long ago.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Can you tell listeners?
Yes.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Dawn Dusk is now available to stream worldwide on
a variety of platforms,including Amazon Prime, tubi and
Hoopla, among others.
Visit dawnduskfilmcom using thelink in our show notes to learn
more about how and where youcan stream the film.
Cheers.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.