#38 IMPACT MASTER JUNN HOPE: FROM A CURIOUS CHILD IN THIKA TO A TRAILBLAZING ROCKET SCIENTIST #africa #womenintech #engineering #podcast #inspiration

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Once again, welcome, welcome.
Hit subscribe button, like andnotification bell.
This is us, truly, michaelKemadi, and we want MK,

(00:24):
representing Impact MastersPodcast, in collaboration with
Africa's Talking Podcasts,coming live to you this
beautiful day, the day of theLord, as we bring you Tech
Movers and Shakers.
Today we are covering AfricaTech, next Ecosystem.

(00:48):
Today we are covering Africatech, next ecosystem, talking
about rockets, rocket science.
We have a rocket scientist inthe house.
Guys, do you know about Jamaica?
Today we're going to talk aboutthat.
We have two musketeers in thehouse.
One of them is a host and theother one is our guests, but

(01:11):
they're all fun to be arounddoing amazing stuff, but
nevertheless, you're coveringtech movers and shakers across
Africa, highlighting theirstories and telling their
stories the way they're supposedto be raw.
So, beyond tech ecosystem, weare looking on two ladies
actually, of course, one is ahost.

(01:34):
I don't know when I should be.
She should be the guest.
Actually, thinking of it, sheshould be the guest at some
point.
It's a beautiful day, day ofthe Lord, here in Nairobi City,
country known as Kenya.

(01:54):
Thank you so much.
If you're enjoying our contentso far, please comment,
subscribe.
You know, show some love.
It's all about Africans.
Without further ado, I wouldlike to introduce June, june
Hope, our guest today, andSylvia.

(02:15):
Sylvia, please talk aboutyourself a bit before we go to
June.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
All right, hello, hello, my name is Sylvia, sylvia
Jabet and I'm part of theAfrica's Talking Team in the
Developer Relations and I amglad to be here, glad to be
speaking to June today to hearmore about what she's done and
just hear more about her journeyin the ecosystem so far.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Thank you so much, sylvia.
I appreciate it.
My name is June.
As you have heard, I'm astudent at J Quiet pursuing
telecommunication engineering inmy final year.
That's just like the basics ofwho I am, and I also build
rockets for fun, hey.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Guys?
Did you hear that For fun?
Who does that In each continent, by the way?
Nassir, as you hear that forfun, who does that In each
continent, by the way?
This is really amazing, if notfascinating, because if we are
doing that for fun in Africa,I'm so hopeful where we are, but
before we go to rockets,because it's kind of exciting
and as well, challenging forthose who are not.

(03:21):
Where did all this start?
June, where did June start?

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Where did June start?
Take us all the way back.
Let's see where paths havecrossed.
So I think my interest inengineering as a start started
back when I was, I think, eightyears old.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Class two or grade 2?

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Are you CPC.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Group of schools Grade.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Class 2 or there about.
So I remember one time therewas, like a camera, not a camera
, a TV failure at home and JuneHope decides hmm, what a time to
open this television set.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
At eight years.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
At eight years, I have no idea how to open a
television set.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
I have no idea how screwdrivers work, so I take a
knife because that's the bestalternative.
We don't even have screwdriversin the house in the first place
, yeah, so I try to open it up.
I end up breaking the casing.
Remember the CRT TVs?
These have like very heavyplastic casings, so I ended up
breaking the plastic casing.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
So CRT are the TVs with a big stomach.
Yes with a stomach, just forthose who are like CRT, you know
.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
CRT, the ones with a big behind.
So I ended up breaking it, Iended up being beaten.
So, so I ended up breaking it,I ended up being beaten.
So I think, yes, properwhooping, but I think that was
just like the beginning of it.
First forward to now classeight.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
No, no, no, no, don't move that fast, so where?

Speaker 4 (04:59):
were you born?
Sorry, sorry.
Where were you born?
Where?

Speaker 3 (05:02):
was I born?
Where am I running?
Where was I born?
I was born.
Where am I running?
Where was I born?

Speaker 1 (05:05):
I was born in thika yes, oh okay, born and bred
thika, thika town or thikaenvironments um, thika town, um,
for majority of the time.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
But now we live around the environment, but
environment.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
But I'm a thika baby oh manana, oh mcconkey, which
place exactly.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Landless, just past landless for those people who
know along Garisha Highway.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay, and how was it growing in Thika Like?
How is it in that landlessplace?

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Do I really have a reference?
I think when you ask someone,that there's really like a
reference that we can compare to.
So it was oh, you're.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I totally hear you.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
So you've been born in Thika, grew in Thika, went to
school in Thika, but at somepoint you were in Limuru, right
yes?

Speaker 3 (06:00):
for high school.
For high school I was in Limuru, very cold place, but amazing
school nonetheless.
So, yeah, I think that'sbasically been my upbringing.
I've been within the Nairobienvironment for a majority of my
life, because now, being inuniversity at J-Quarton, almost
I'm navigating.

(06:20):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
So you were saying you did all your primary school
in Ndika, right?

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
So how was that like?
Were you a troublesome kidafter breaking CRT in school?
Were you beating other kidstrying to open their mendula?

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Can I say I was a violent child?
Not really, not particularly.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
But neither were you good.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I don't think I can say I'm a calm person, or if you
bring war, I never start war.
I never start war, but if youbring it, I will finish it.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Okay, that's a nice diplomatic way of saying.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yes, a very diplomatic way of looking at it.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Have you ever gotten in trouble in primary school?
I mean in trouble.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
No, not that I can, no, no, but one time I almost
did.
One time I almost did, but Idid not.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
So see, here I am so you were just mischievous at
home, just breaking things athome, but in school you're calm.
Yeah, You're two-sided.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Actually there are very many people who would think
that I'm a very calm person,very collected, very Until you
meet me and then you see I'malways tinkering things and I'm
always trying to break thingsand just open things.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
But is that out of curiosity?

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, just curiosity.
If something, unfortunately, ifsomething is new and I don't
know how it works and.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I can't google it but when you broke the TV, were you
really clear that I want to bean engineer?
Or even you didn't know whatthat leads to.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I didn't actually know.
I didn't even think of it.
I always wanted to be a lawyer.
Actually, people who knew mefrom high school going back
always knew I wanted to be alawyer.
Actually, people who knew mefrom high school going back
always knew I wanted to do law,so I didn't really think about
the implication of how the smallthings I was doing was building
up to now where.
I am right now.

(08:17):
Until later, until after highschool.
That's when I was like, oh, Imight be good at breaking stuff,
I could make money or make acareer out of breaking stuff and
tinkering around with things,but it had not really come to me
that it's something that's.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Why law?

Speaker 3 (08:32):
I have an aunt who's a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Oh, your aunt is a lawyer.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, I have an aunt who's a lawyer and she was very
Influential, oh, okay, so I wasjust like I want to be like
Auntie Sun, so just for that,actually just for that.
And then the 2017 electionshappened and I remember, I
remember Orengo.
Was it Orengo?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Came out with this.
It was like a 600 page thingfull of evidence and I'm like
I'm not going to be doing that.
No, count me out, count me out,count me out.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
So that's when you gave up on law.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
I actually don't think I gave up per se, but I
think towards finishing highschool is when, like, reality
started setting in, kicking inthat law might be something I've
wanted to do for such a longtime, but not intrinsically what
I want to do, but because offactors around me that have
encouraged me to do law.
So, yeah, I think and I wasvery grateful for my mom and my

(09:29):
family they gave me the supportto tinker around, to figure out
things.
There was no you should do this, it was just you want to do
music, it's fine, go do it ifyou want it.
So I think that also gave methe room to find my way.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, and June.
By the way, of course, forengineers, mathematics is like
the core.
How was mathematics, you know,growing up, especially in
primary school.
In primary, it's not thatdifficult it's not that much.
But of course you have to havesome sense of liking and loving
it and fascinated at the sametime, to be able to be

(10:09):
interested beyond one plus oneor subtracting and adding kind
of calculations.
So how was that journey for youto really love mathematics?

Speaker 3 (10:24):
I think, if I'm being honest, I have been lucky.
I can say it that way Math was.
It was not that hard for me, atleast In primary school.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
You have to be clear about primary school.
I have seen primary school.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
So I don't think it actually Took much for me.
If anything, I generally don'tthink I put in a lot of effort
in primary school.
So I don't think it actuallytook much for me.
If anything, I generally don'tthink I put in a lot of effort
in primary school.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Were you playful?
Were you doing other thingsLike drama?

Speaker 3 (10:55):
I was in music festival at one point For, I
think, a semester or somethingof the sort.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
In primary school.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, primary school, they have semesters Like a term
.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Oh, a term, oh God.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
He's looking at me and I'm like wondering what have
I said wrong?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Nowadays I'm not sure , you know, nowadays with the
CBC I'm not so sure.
And homeschooling.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Oh yeah, true, I'm not so sure what.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
And actually the other day there's a day I gave a
joke about the Okampo.
I don't know if you guys arefamiliar with Okampo.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Okampo 6.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yeah like this was the joke so it was in a
hackathon and I was like Ahumeponea, those who understand
Kiswahili.
So there was this team, whichwas late to present, and
everyone wanted them to presentfor some reason, so I said
umepone Abasha Okampo.
And there was this silence.
No one got the joke and Irealized, by the way, I'm

(11:51):
dealing with people who maybeare born in 2097 and maybe by
the time Okampo was happeningthey were too young to really be
in the know.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Let me ask did people get the joke, or was the joke
not funny?
Good question.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
She was there anyway, I think people had the joke.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
It's true, the majority of the demographic was
a younger one and we were quiteyoung, but we remember, we have
an idea.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
That joke.
You have to know really whenthat Ocampo 6.
Like your name was mentioned,it was not a joke Because that
means you go to ICC and all that.
So of course that's why now Icannot assume anything that
someone say.
If someone says semester, Ihave to be clear.
Maybe nowadays people learn insemester.
I know there are schools thatactually primary school that

(12:47):
people go like per semester andwhen there's summer holiday they
go for summer holiday like theinternational curriculum.
So I can't actually assume when.
I say semester by mistake, Ihave to be sure.
And of course here we keep itraw.
So feel free to explain where Ineed be.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
By semester.
I think it's because I'mcurrently in the semester
program.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
So I think it's because I'm currently in the
semester program.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
So I think it's just like yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
So sciences was good or you didn't also struggle.
It was like you know you guyscan do bring some hard ex.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
You know I think it's important to note I really
struggled with science,particularly and afterwards in
high school, biology.
You didn't understand biology Iremember I was thinking for a
while.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
But you're taking us so fast, june.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Oh sorry, sorry, sorry In primary school sciences
were not so bad, but there weresome aspects that were not so
interesting to me.
So things like plants, thehuman body, it was like, yeah,
wasting my time Give me.
I didn't like it, I reallydidn't like.
You know, there's just likesome sections, so the sections I
didn't like, the others that Ireally loved.

(13:53):
You know the physics aspect ofit.
Yeah, Making work easier, I'mlike, yes, please you need to go
to the lab.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Were you remaining in the lab, especially in high
school, after a physics labsession?
No?

Speaker 3 (14:11):
Lab sessions.
That's a tricky one, because wehad compulsory lab sessions in
Form 4 for all of us, so therewas really no alternative to not
go to the lab.
I think I was a physics baby.
I think I was a physics baby.
I think I was a physics cat.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
It was like a teacher's pet at some point you
really got it like end to end.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
I think I'm making it a little bit too simplistic.
I'm making it seem like I hadit easy.
I did not, especially for thefirst two years of high school.
But yeah, sciences were notthat tough, especially after I
dropped biology.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Oh, okay, let me go a bit deep.
You are in primary school.
That is still in Thika, right?

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Which one is it Thika Primaries?

Speaker 1 (15:02):
And for you it's just having fun.
Did you have fun with your KCP?
You know what I'm asking.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
I did not have fun with my KCP.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
But you passed.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Really well.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
I went to a good school.
It's telling.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
It wasn't bad.
It was really good 't bad.
It was really good, not bad, itwas good, it was good.
You know what I say, right?
I want to seem humble to thepeople watching it doesn't break

(15:41):
a bone to tell a girl who is inthe same school that you are in
.
You said it Thika PrimarySchool, thika Primary that it's
possible to get these kind ofmarks.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Because I don't love exams.
I don't like that people arejudged based on just exams.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Oh yeah, true.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
But also it is what it is True.
So if you don't get certainmarks, it tells something about
the next level, right?
So when we do this podcast, welike to keep it really real that
, okay, I got this and that'swhat took me to this, so that if
I'm in the primary, I know forsure for me to become a rocket

(16:20):
scientist it has to start reallyearly, Not only loving things
and breaking things, but alsotranslate to like if I'm tested
about things.
I'm able to prove that Iunderstand these things.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yes, makes sense.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
I think that's the approach.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Alright.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
So, if you don't mind , it might encourage someone.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Okay, I got 525.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
And that's what you're saying, eh.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
It was not bad, that's.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Alliance Max.
But in a way where you went tois the same as Alliance.
So, yeah, thank you for sharing.
So when you got this, were youexpecting it or did the track
record show that this is it?
Like you know, it's gonnahappen.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
I was actually disappointed.
I need to get that reaction.
I needed to get that reaction.
I needed to get that reaction.
I wanted greater marks.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Like 499?
.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
No, I was not that ambitious.
But you know, I knew the cutoffpoint because I really wanted
to go to Allianz.
I knew what Allianz cutoffpoint was and I fell short of it
by, I think, a mark oh.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
So 430 and above is what you get.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
It was 427 at the time, I think.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
But you got 4?
From the previous year, 25.
25.
Yeah, so it was disappointing.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
I was just like, oh, I can't actually.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
So Alliance was like it was.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
It was.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, so we went to.
What's the name of the school?

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Loretto, loretto, limuru, loretto.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Limuru.
How was that day?
One Like where were you, youknow?

Speaker 2 (17:52):
All the new things new box, new uniform.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, I don't know if girls used to call their new
shirts maziwa, but when we wentto our school, our shirts were
referred as maziwa school.
Our shirts were referred asmaziwa.
Do you know why?
Because they're too white andyou lose them the first week.
So, like when, from two, fromthree, they look at the new,
what do they call it?
These are terms they usenowadays when you say nisisi

(18:16):
tuko, when you open the camera,clothes, the mtumba clothes,
yeah, the new bail has arrived.
So monos, which we used to becalled.
I don't know if you guys heardthat and I've realized over time
I should not assume this thing,because I realize when there
are places people don't evenknow what monolization is.

(18:38):
Whereas where I went to school Iwas like schoolers are like ah,
that was like rite of passage.
And then, of course, a new billhas arrived.
First week you lose all yournew stuff, especially shirts and
pullovers, and there are peoplewho actually come and say you
know what?
There's a funky happening.
You guys used to go to funky.

(18:58):
There's a funky happeningsomewhere.
Can I borrow your shirt?
Do you look the same size?
And then when you go to ask forthe shirt back, you might even
get a beating or something.
It's like that never happens.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
So it's like silent.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
And when I look at the world out here nowadays, I
realize also these people are inthe society they steal from you
right.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
On your eyes and you can't do anything.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
So, and I don't know why I've gone that deep, but
ideally, when I think about it,some of the things that actually
happen in the society they donot start from when people
graduate or when people?

Speaker 3 (19:34):
finish school.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Some that actually has a pattern over time.
So day one.
How was it You're in Loretto.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Day one I'm in my bright red skirt, bright red
sweater, because you couldliterally see us from afar.
Yeah, I remember, I gotdisappointed.
Yeah, what happened?
We went to Limuru High Schoolfirst.
We passed by Limuru High Schoolfirst.
Limuru girls, rather, they wentto.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Loretto.
We passed by Limuru High School, first Limuru Girls rather,
then we went to Loretto.
So there's Limuru and Loretto.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
There's Limuru, which is not too far from Loretto, so
I went to Limuru first and theschool is very.
What's the name for this word?
It has an ambience.
It's like very aestheticallypleasing.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
You know, you know and I know you are good in
composition.
Can you please paint thatpicture for us, for those who
have never seen a school closeto tea plantation?
Right because when I go toKericho, when I'm going to
Kisumu, when I get to Kericho Ifeel like, ah, should I spend a
day because it's really green.
I assume also the air is freshand coming from Nairobi, okay,

(20:43):
which is okay.
I assume most of the air isfresh and coming from Nairobi,
which is coming from Thika goingto the Muru.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
It's the same experience.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
It's really refreshing.
I feel like I'm back.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Go ahead All right.
So, as I was saying Again, asyou're saying, it's very lush,
very green, very beautiful.
And then I think, if I'm notwrong, it's very lush, very
green, very beautiful.
And then I think, if I'm notwrong, it's on a hill so you can
see, or rather towards a hill,so you can see a lot of greenery

(21:14):
around it, and not just thegreenery but even the outlay of
the school.
It's not.
I would later come to see chaosin the next school.
So this one was very peaceful.
It seemed systematic, orprobably, I don't know.
I think that was what drew meto it.

(21:35):
From the entry there's justlike a driveway literally
driving towards the school andthe like.
Then we go to the next school.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Which one is that Limuru?
They're just neighboring?
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
They're not too far from each other.
We were dropping something atLimuru Girls and then going to
Loreto, so from where I wascoming from, it was easier to go
to Limuru Girls first and thengo to Loreto.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
You had a person there.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, we did.
I think it was a cousin of minethere, person there.
Or yeah, yeah, we did um, Ithink it was a cousin of mine.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
There's some packages the mother had sent my through
my mom, so just like I justdropped it.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yeah, so we get there .
I see that.
Then we leave for school andyou get to loretto and just
chaos again.
I think it was because it wasreporting day what was the chaos
about?
There were so many people Againunderstand that I'd come from a
very, I'd come from a privateschool, I'd come from a very

(22:32):
secluded like area or reporting.
We didn't have anything likereporting days because I had not
gone to boarding school.
So, it was just very me, myselfand a very small number of
people.
So now you're meeting throngsof people.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
You're meeting so many people.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
And I'm just like what are all these people doing
here?
What's going on?
It was like a lot of chaos.
There was a lot of chaos.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
But I thought you loved the chaos to some extent.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
I do.
I do to some extent, but Idon't think I'd prepared myself,
I'd been preparedpsychologically or I'd prepared
myself psychologically for allthe people I saw, or like the
whole experience and then thereality of oh shoot, I'm
actually.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
I'm actually going to be left here my mom is going to
go.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
You trust me to keep myself alive through this.
Wow, I don't trust me to keepmyself alive through this, wow.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
I don't trust me.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
So yeah, and it is that I think the first few weeks
were just crying days.
I remember I went to the diningroom, went to the dining hall,
and there was Ugali that wasbeing served for supper that
night and Ugali wasn't.
Again, it's a public school, soyou're really not expecting the
best kind of facilities oranything, not to say that they

(23:49):
did not have good facilities,just you know.
So I remember I was cooked forUgali and you could literally
see the flour I did not eat thatnight.
I did not eat that night.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I thought they said that's a well-prepared Ugali.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
This was your first night.
This was my first night.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Thank God for snacks okay so you guys had enough
snacks to survive.
Oh yeah, we did?

Speaker 3 (24:15):
we had comfort food.
You can't be living in a coldplace without being comforted.
There has to be somereparations for it, okay makes a
lot of sense so the two werethey like godfathers, godmothers
.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
There has to be some reparations for it.
Okay, makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, so the two were therelike godfathers, godmothers,
assigned to you to just show youaround.
Like you know, what do theycall it in the working world?
Work buddy.
It's also in the working, butapparently even in the job
places there's work buddy whoshows you.
Someone to work with you whenyou go to conferences.

(24:46):
There's conference buddy whoshows you around, so did you
have.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
I was actually a school mom.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Okay, so did you have one.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
I did, I did.
She was very, very helpful.
She actually really held methrough.
It was really the first yearshe did so I remember she
actually met me on the first dayshe came.
She helped me carry things fromwherever okay to traditions.
After you, when you inform two,you'd help your kids settle.
So she helped me carry things.

(25:13):
She had me settle down.
My mom left.
She actually, I think, was theone who unpacked my things.
I was just crying, so I'msitting on someone else's bed.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
I'm like oh okay, I was just crying.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
So I'm sitting on someone else's bed.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
I'm like I'm going to go to bed, oh, okay, that's
what it demands, huh.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
So she actually, she actually she's very, very
helpful, she's very, veryinsightful, she just it was very
, very amazing.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
And I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, yeah.
So day one in class and now youhave to.
Did your teachers dictate notes, or was it written on the board
?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Did they?
Did they even give us notes inthe first place?
No I think they used to givenotes to us as assignments.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Okay, go and write them.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, I don't think we ever had especially Do I
remember?
I don't think we hadspecifically dictated notes.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Okay, you know you're making it sound like it was the
1990s or 80s, but it's just theother day.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
It's just the other day, it's literally less than
five years ago.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Okay, you have a very good memory.
So the reason why I've askedthis, is because I think
education is changing.
Actually, they're doing anoverhaul and I feel like, as
much as we're doing the overhaul, we should actually retain some
of the things, because it helpsso much later in life, like

(26:33):
dictation when people dictate toyou, you are able to comprehend
very fast as you take notes.
You're able to comprehend whatis going on, because even in
university that's what happensmostly.
But I'm assuming where peoplehave to do most of the things
practically and there's no othersession.
But I don't know how CBC islike.
Maybe with time we'll get toknow how it is like.

(26:56):
You'll find some of thosethings can help you in different
ways.
But I'm not saying altogetherthat.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
CBC is bad or something.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
It's just that I'm thinking about it now and I'm
like maybe people can't writethings when someone is speaking,
then there might be a gap,because you have to either
comprehend when they're speakingand maybe take note later, or
they do something out of that,or you don't get it, which which

(27:27):
means if you don't get it, thenyou miss out, yeah, and and so
many things can happen out ofthat um, so you go to class, you
they're like, how many subjects?

Speaker 3 (27:38):
seven, eight no, we had 13 13, including french and
german we did not have German, Ididn't do French.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
But there was French.
Yeah, there was, there wasFrench Spanish.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
There was just French as a foreign language and music
arts home science agriculture,another one I forget, I can't
remember, and computer.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
And business.
Those are the options.
Yeah, did you take computer?
Yeah, I forget, I can'tremember.
And computer and business.
Those are the options.
Did you take computer?

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, I did.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Did you code?

Speaker 3 (28:13):
No, I did macros.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Setting up macros.
I set up macros.
That was the closest you evergot, and how did you find it?

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I did not like Macross but I liked the,
especially in Form 4, because Iremember that's when we used to
do projects.
You guys were in the sameschool, no.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
What school were you in?
I was in my girls' endurance.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
But it sounds like they all fought the same fight.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, it is for sure.
So I think doing project isactually when we got to really
put like the rubber met the roadthen, because most of it
previously had been theoretical.
Some bit of word here Excel,you know.
So you know having to buildyour own project from scratch

(29:06):
and thinking about how you wantyour views to look like, how you
want your interaction, or whatwe now know as to be UI, ux, to
look like and how you want forit to interact, or the kind of
processing and the kind ofthought process you're putting
behind it.
I really liked that process.
I really really did.
I didn't like having to usemacros.

(29:28):
There were actually people whoused to use JavaScript, I know
In high school.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yes, I know one of really good, good software
engineer Right now she moved toUS.
They own a small jet, not jetper se, five-wise.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Okay, you are in drogues.
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
They're small planes.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
But they move a lot like from US to Bahamas.
None of you know her.
Anna Masila yeah, she also wentto Limuru.
Yeah, so she was really good inRuby.
She also went to Limuru.
Yeah, so she was really good inRuby.
When I met her she was, I think, either completed high school
or she was in university.
I'm not so sure but she joined.
Nandela and then everythingelse happened.

(30:17):
So when you say people aredoing JavaScript, then for sure
I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
There are some guys who are I know and I feel like
it really defined and it reallycreated this difference,
especially now when you come touniversity.
But I know this is now jumpingthe gun.
There are people who hadalready had a head start,
Because I remember there'ssomeone in my class who used
JavaScript and I'm like Istruggled with macros you were
using JavaScript.

(30:43):
Okay, I didn't even know thatwas an option.
Exactly, he didn't even knowthat was an option, so yeah
there are people you should notassume things.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
There are people who also have instructors at home
for sure like, maybe your dadsays okay, here is a guy I'll be
paying, maybe for the nextthree months over the holiday,
yeah, by the way, maybe for thenext three months over the
holiday, but these are the ones.
I actually need to give adisclaimer for those who are
listening.
So if you are on holiday, likemost of you are, and you're
returning in September, don'tthink everyone is just chilling

(31:14):
and watching Netflix as you do.
There are people who actuallyright now are taking courses in
Java, JavaScript, music, piano,guitar and everything else
Python.
Yes, as you said, People areparticipating actively in
hackathons building stuff,meeting people, networking.
So not everyone who is waitingto get a degree now to start

(31:35):
looking for a job.
People are really out heredoing amazing things and I've
seen them in the hackathon andpeople are doing some amazing,
amazing stuff.
So I'll tell everyone acrossthe country, across the
continent, wherever it is.
I know most people go to school, go for holidays, maybe when
you're not lucky to go to highschool, don't give up.
There are some colleges.
You can do packages.

(31:55):
Then you understand how to typein a computer.
There are so many videos online.
There's documentation.
Nowadays, most of the booksactually computer programming
books are available on PDFonline.
So it's a matter of yourinterest and also being out
there.
At the end of the day, there'snothing wrong that can go when

(32:15):
you're out there.
And now that comes back to me.
So my first computer I was infirst year.
When I just showed up it waslike desktop.
You know, university is onlydesktop.
But my first computer was insecond year, second semester.
You just add two semesters peryear, and that's when I got to

(32:36):
own a small HESA.
Maybe you guys know how smallHESA looks like and that HESA
actually was destroyed by somany guys because I used to
charge it.
You know it didn't keep thecharge long.
It was like when it's full,like one, one and a half hours,
when I'm like busy when it'sdoing the work, you know,

(32:57):
running a, a, a, a, a, a, apartition.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Linux.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Maybe one hour.
So I used to keep it chargingand you know, in school normally
there are no extensions thatare really but I know of course
USI used to have more.
They have figured out that youdon't need to have socket on the
walls, so people used to passwith that wire.
And then my computer used tofly.
After one year it just died onme Like literally died, like

(33:26):
nothing could be done.
I went to the fundi.
They were like do you want tosell the screen?
Can you imagine I can give youtwo G's?
because here, alternatively,replacing the motherboard is
like buying another one for sureand that time that's when I
actually started thinking deeplyabout me as a computer

(33:50):
scientist.
I did computer science.
What is the most importantinvestment in my life?
And I think this is a questionI would pose to anyone who is
doing anything and I realizedthe most important investment in
my life is the tool that I useevery day and that's why, for me
, my computers is like it'sbetter be the best that there is
in the market, because that'smy tool.

(34:10):
When I see people play aroundwith what they use every day,
I'm like are you serious?
Like this is what you use, likeevery single day.
I'd rather not have a TV oranything fancy.
I might be sleeping on thefloor but, what I'm using, the
tool that I'm using.
It's better be really working.
Because, from that experience Irealized if this tool dies and

(34:34):
I have a project as anentrepreneur because I did
entrepreneurship for a long timethen of course, I'm done.
And you know Nairobi has a wayof telling you see ya, see ya.
Very easy, and our home is notthicker, so returning might not
be the easiest.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Might not be the easiest option.
Yes, yes, so that sorrysometimes I give my story to
just give the context.
No, please do, please do.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
But of course, limuru I don't want to call it girls,
but Limuru, loreto, girls,limuru, that's the right one.
So I've seen a couple of guyscome from there who are really
good and I wanted to know do youguys also learn programming in

(35:20):
school, in high school?

Speaker 3 (35:22):
In high school.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Or you have to self-teach yourself.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
Unless they started now, we weren't, we didn't have
that, of course, the person I'mtalking about is older than you,
so there's no way they couldhave started.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
So you said you didn't like biology, so of
course that means being a doctor, was all that.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
For a very long time.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
And this is interesting because I realized
that also biology makes girlsunderstand themselves more To
some extent Because for us inthose classes we are so
uncomfortable because we arehearing things that we don't
want to hear.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
But ladies are like ah, now this makes sense Now
they have questions.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
You see, and especially for men or boys or
gentlemen in school, especiallywhen that subject is taught by a
lady, it's not the easiest,because for a lady there are
things that she'll be saying andshe doesn't want to joke around
, so that you don't take itlightly.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
But when it's a man sometimes tell us more tell us
more and it becomes interesting.
Um, so the question here for meis like it's very interesting
to hear the first lady I've had,like biology, was not to me and
, by the way, you're very from,maybe it might be the first 10
minutes you're like, ah, in highschool, so please tell us more.

(36:45):
Why was it not that fascinating?

Speaker 3 (36:52):
I think it's okay, first and foremost, for things
not to work out from the first.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
you know You're spoken like an engineer.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
So I remember, I think, the first few classes.
I remember we had this classwhen we were being taught about
Mitochondria, mitochondrion, thelikes, and that just went above
my head.
I could not for the life of meunderstand why it had a
difference and it was such asmall thing.
But I just didn't understandwhy it had a different

(37:21):
pronunciation In plural.
And I think I don't know.
I have a feeling I had anattitude with my teacher, my
biology teacher, in form one.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Was he a man or?

Speaker 3 (37:33):
A lady.
It was a lady.
I had an attitude with her so Iremember there was a time I
can't remember what she wassupposed to be doing at the lab.
I'm a very sensitive person totouch.
I'm very sensitive with touch.
So anything small that touchesme I want to wash my hands.
I don't even like this.
You see the way you're cookingand you're having things on your
hand.
I don't like that Exactly.

(37:54):
I keep on washing.
So I remember we were at thelab, we were doing something and
iodine had spilled on me.
So I decided let me just go to,let me just go wash my hand.
And she made a very interestingcomment.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
She was like I was like okay, I was busy managing
my business.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
And just something very, very small, and I actually
think about it sometimes andI'm just like it wasn't anything
major.
But at the time, 15 year old me, I did a big thing.
Yeah, she felt it.
So I think it just became acompounded problem for me.
So I carried on the attitudefrom first year, from form one
rather, till form two, and Iremember just when we were going

(38:41):
to drop the subjects is when Istarted liking it.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
What made you like it ?

Speaker 3 (38:44):
We had this class something to do with blood
groups or something.
I found it very interestingabout Rasa's positive and Rasa's
negative and the likes.
I found it very, veryinteresting and we were going to
drop the subject the next week,so I sat down with myself and
I'm like I like this lesson, andwas it the same teacher all the

(39:05):
way?
No, it wasn't.
It wasn't the same teacher Thenthat's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
It was.
So what was the problem withthe second teacher?

Speaker 3 (39:13):
The first teacher.
The second teacher was actuallyokay, but already you had.
I had already clocked out.
I had already clocked, Iclocked out.
I keep on saying I clocked outin form one.
I just clocked out of biologyclass there was no saving me
there really was no saving me.
So I find it interesting.
But I remember sitting downwith myself and asking I'm just
saying this was one class out ofX that I've had previously.

(39:35):
I've not liked the otherclasses.
Having liked this one class isnot a guarantee that I like all
the rest.
Because I remember we had afight, if I can so call it like
that, with my mum Because shewants me to do biology, because
we had a trend of doing threesciences.
You remember the three sciencesgirls?
Yes, the three sciences girls.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Oh, those were not like a class.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
So it's a whole class .

Speaker 2 (39:59):
It's just like a whole.
It's just some power that comeswith you.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
Oh yeah, there's just some power that comes with you.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Oh yeah, oh okay, I did three sciences, but it's
okay, did you?

Speaker 3 (40:08):
do three sciences?
Yes, I did you see.
Need I say more?
Need I say more?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
She has said it.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Doing three sciences.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Like nothing is happening and passing all of
them.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Not just passing, really passing Okay.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
She says something like the words are funny.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
So, yeah, I didn't like it, but I think and
something I learned from anearly age early is relative, but
from then, it's being okay withthe choices you've made's being
okay with the choices you'vemade and being okay with trying
something and not liking it andsaying you know what this is,
it's fine it's okay, we're notgoing to be all engineers or all

(40:55):
doctors or all exes, and it'sokay and living and being okay
with that choice yeah, and atthis particular point you had
made your mind like chemistry,physics, math, these ones look
alike.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
There's a lot of correlation and they make a lot
of sense.
They do Mathematically mostly.
So you are kind of a logicalperson.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
More or less yes, Actually, yes yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
And, by the way, you have said a very important thing
that I think anyone in highschool primary should actually
grab if he's a lady thatsometimes ladies know that
they're not good in science andwe've had these debates STEM,
specifically science, whatScience, technology, engineering
and mathematics.

(41:42):
But basically scientific stuffand math.
It's some of the things thatactually have pointed out
directly.
This one attitude started likethis is it Like ah, you know,
I'm trying to be me here and I'mnot allowed to be me, and I've
seen that with a lot of people.
And even when I was doing math,I went to like two schools.

(42:03):
The first school, the teacher,was an examiner, and for you to
be an examiner, you're reallygood at what you do.
But it never took us seriousbecause the school I was in the
first time.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Please say the name no shame here.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's not a school that you know or you'll never
know, but it's not a shame oranything, but they don't deserve
my credits.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
They don't.
So, this school was apparently aprovincial school but it was
not provincial in actuality.
Like for ground it wasn'tBecause one.
They took like five, tenstudents who performed
provincial level and then therest were like you know, this is

(42:51):
a son of DO because he's aneighbour, or son of a chief,
you know, just put them there,people with D's.
You know so, even as a teacheryou're demotivated.
But because it was a board ofgovernors kind of run school
where sometime even as a teacheryou're demotivated, but because
it was a board of governorskind of run school where
sometimes even some of theteachers are paid by the board
of governors, then of course youhave to play ball because you
know we own this school,Otherwise you know you are the

(43:13):
visitor.
You need to treat us well, butof course, as a result, someone
even ends up like you you're notso serious.
So there, if you didn't reallywork hard, nothing happened.
Actually, you did not evenexpect anything to happen.
And when you say that some ofthese aspects of teacher-student
relation actually makes peoplegive up, I also see it in when

(43:36):
we do workathons and stuff likethat, whereby someone comes with
some entitlement.
Straight up, like you know I'mexpecting this, but some
entitlement Straight up.
Like you know I'm expectingthis.
But also again, someone comesand they have that trauma of
like, whatever I ask a question,if I wash my hands, how will I
be treated?
And I think we need to moveaway from that because as

(43:58):
Africans, we've been traumatizedfor long.
That's why, actually, we'redoing these podcasts.
That's one of the ideas To justaddress some of the things that
actually limit us, that arebeyond us, and one of those
things is the trauma.
And trauma actually can addressin different ways.
One is that to accept thatwe're really good.
Two is that we have our ownweakness.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
And three letting go as you say it.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Saying that, okay, maybe biology is not me and me
I'm not biology, and maybe I'mgood with physics Just dig deep
and build rockets.
But anyway, the point here isthat, especially for girls, is
that I feel like if we give thema chance and allow them to be

(44:41):
them, we could see an amazingstart, Because I've seen a
couple of really good, goodengineers, lady engineers, even
at DT in the community, and theyend up actually becoming the
best, to say the least.
But for those who requirespecial attention, sometimes it
doesn't really work out because,of course, your expectations
are not met or something youfeel like ah maybe this is not

(45:04):
my space, and I've ever had somany people say, eh, what a safe
space, until today.
I always try to understand.
What is that safe space.
Because safe space can mean twothings, whether treated in a
special way, but not getting theright content and deal, because
science is hard.
Let's not lie about it.
Science is really hard and youneed to love it and be curious

(45:26):
enough to understand or safespace might mean to be you and
also to be given a chance toreally dig deep yeah I love the
second part, whereby and thatactually you can create yourself
, like, once you learn something, you go ahead and investigate
about it, do something around it, understand more about it, and
so on and so forth.
But that's my take right.
So going forward, were youmonolized?

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Were you monolized.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Was I monolized?

Speaker 1 (45:54):
You know what monolized?

Speaker 3 (45:56):
means yes, wow or bullying.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
But I don't feel like it should be bullying, because
bullying is a whole, totaldifferent thing.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
It is bullying.
It is bullying, okay,subliminal or not, it is
bullying.
Why are you monolized?

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yes and no?
Don't give us that answer,please.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
It's a tough question .
It's a tough question becausethe reason I was monolized was
not the traditional reason as tooh, you're just a tough
question.
It's a tough question becausethe reason I was monolized was
not the traditional reason as tooh, you're just a Form 1,
you're being monolized.
I was monolized for somethingelse and I'm not even sure it's
being monolized.
By and large, I can say I wasbullied, sadly, for a while.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Especially for the first.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
The first one and a half semesters, one and a half
times.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Times In form one.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
And how did you deal with that?
How did I deal with that?
If I'm being honest, I actuallybroke down.
I became hysterical.
I think what I was trying tosay is there was the instigator
of this and I had back hadhistory outside of Loreto.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yes, oh, it's someone you knew.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Okay, it's not someone you knew, it's someone
whom we shared a connection with.
So this history then wasbrought into high school, right?
So, um, I realized, once itbecame, I became hysterical, um,
at a point of actually going totherapy and being sent home it

(47:37):
was that serious it was bad.
It was bad, but it was justlike um an iceberg kind of
moment.
You know that, the thing thatjust tips you off.
But it's not the reason whythere was underlying problems,
but it's not.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
It just awakens a lot of problems.
Yeah, it does, and she knew howto use this real good.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
I don't even think she knew.
I don't even think she knew.
I think it was just her being anormal form two deciding to
bully me, not knowing that shewas opening up a kind of womb.
Okay, yeah.
So yeah, I think, started thiswhole journey of therapy.
I only did it for a year, Iguess.

(48:19):
Form one Then came back.
My mom has been very, verysupportive, so she came back and
was very loud about it.
She was like there is someonehere who is not giving my child
rest and I shall not rest untilmy child has rest.
So we had to sit down and hadto find a work around as to how
we would both live in thatschool.

(48:39):
But beyond that, I think itdidn't go as far as bad as I've
heard people's stories, becauseI have heard terrible stories,
so it wasn't as bad, butbullying is still bullying.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
But they have a controversial question and you
can answer it, it's okay.
You can say okay, maybe I haveno, you know, just feel free.
I've had a.
I don't know if it's ok or youcan say ok, maybe I have no, you
know, just feel free.
I've had.
I don't know if it's because ofcold or something but, I've had
Loreto in Limuru.
Sisi Kwasisi is very, veryprominent to an extent that I

(49:20):
saw it in some papers some timeback you did.
I can't remember really well anddon't quote me, but is that an
issue there?
I have to be sure, because atthe end, of the day on public
domain, I would not like toaccuse a whole school of
something that I can't reallyrecall, but I feel like I saw
something like that, or maybe onsocial media I'm not so sure I

(49:43):
saw this, but is that a problemthere?

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Or not a problem, I don't want to call it a problem.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
It was a thing.
Yeah, full stop Period.
Were you a victim?

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Oh no, Thank God, I was not a victim.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah, because I heard also it goes even beyond that
to cults, which is very serious,and I think it's about time we
started talking about thesethings because we can all sit
here and assume these things arenot happening, especially in
girls and boys schools because Ialso understand as much as we
are accepting and embracing themand now even calling them human

(50:26):
rights for.
God's sake, they alsotraumatize people beyond.
People even commit suicidebecause what happens to you
remains with you.
It's something that actuallyyou never even anticipated.

Speaker 4 (50:38):
You just went to school to learn Now all these
things happen.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
So what do you think we can do, because some of us
here will become parents in thefuture and you not wish that to
your son or not.
What do you think we can doabout it?
Should you allow people to bemeeting in funkies more?
That help?

Speaker 3 (50:58):
I don't think beating is a solution.
No, no, no, I'm getting there.
I don't think beating is anultimate solution.
I was actually hearing.
If you're in the country, youknow there has been a bill to
reintroduce sex education withinthe current curriculum and
people are fighting it.

(51:19):
The church is fighting it.
Muslims are fighting it.
The religious community let meput it that way the religious
community is fighting it.
Islams are fighting it.
The religious community, let meput it that way the religious
community is fighting it.
But we're not getting any moralout of society.
If anything, we're getting evenmore immoral.
So failing to have thesediscussions because the thing is
for most of sex talk or thisunderstanding of who you are

(51:46):
with regards to now, that isusually left to your teachers,
to class six biology or yourbiology class no, it never sits
you down.
But the thing is, failing totalk about it does not solve the
problem.
The problem is already withinthe society.
Failing to talk about it doesnot.
It won't magically go away andI think we have a tendency, as

(52:09):
especially Africans, to sweepthings under the rug and
magically while them away andwait for them to one day God
will help us and God will helpus.
But I feel like it's very, veryimportant to have these
discussions from not just highschool, but from an early age.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Even parents should actually rise to the occasion
From home.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
It should start from home and then transition on to
school, and we should not beafraid to have these discussions
.
I was listening to someonetalking about how, if you have a
child who's on TikTok and past9 pm, it's just chaos.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Crazy yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Right, is it true?
I actually it was anuninstalled TikTok.
Yeah, I got to a point where Iwas just like I'm just wasting
my time.
Yeah, exactly, it's anaddiction I don't want to bear.
Yeah, but if what people aresaying is true, then you're
imagining that this kid is beingintroduced to so much, and even
the music we're listening to,even the movies we're watching,

(53:06):
we're not becoming you know,especially the movies, oh my
goodness.
And the thing is we're notbecoming any more.
We're not becoming any betteras a society.
We'll always be degrading fromtime immemorial.
We've always become, we'llalways become worse to the next
generation.
So parents, talk about it.
Everyone should be able to havethese discussions.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
And I feel like we should talk about it from the
point of truth and not imposingwhat you believe into someone
else and it should be okay tosay that I don't want to have
that discussion if that isavailable.
But, of course, you should knowthe truth.
The truth is that, for sure,most of us are here because of
some of the decisions that weremade for a long time and which

(53:51):
actually have been welldocumented.
Why and there are a couple ofreasons around it and there's a
better way to look at it than weare looking at it right now,
and I'm not saying I'm right.
Everyone else is wrong.
I'm just saying we should beable to evaluate this soberly,
and I'm sure not everyone willbe.
Like you know and I've seenthis actually even on Twitter
when this, some of thesediscussions are brought about,

(54:14):
some of the definitions havebeen changed on Google.
Can you imagine that?
Yeah, it's getting serious, soyeah.
If you're not aware, just checkaround I don't want to get into
it, but when time is right Iwill go into details.
And one thing that I wasdiscouraging is because it's a

(54:36):
rat race and it has no end.
Once you go in, you will nothave an end and you see, life
has to be predictable in someway, like, at this point, this
is what is expected of me, or Iexpect this of me, and from this
point, this is what I want tosee.
And with that predictability,as much as life is challenging
myself, then people have hopeand also they can actually solve

(54:59):
problems as they go, because,also, even when we talk about
you, even beyond sex education,there's this expectation of like
ah, I'm a graduate, I should behaving a V8.
I should be.
You know, when you see a goodcar, when you see a good
building, anything you see, youwant it to be yours and in
actuality it can't.
That's the truth, that's thefact.
It can't change.

(55:19):
And then that puts you in aplace of depression, stress, you
know, resentment, and we expectAfricans to be more productive
than they are to be able tosolve most of our problems.
So it has to be an holisticapproach.
Now, before we go deep intothis and we lose track, you get

(55:40):
to Form 4.
And you again.
Have fun with the KCSE.
How was that?
Were you like?
No, I'm ready.
You know when I did my KCSE andI'll share this from a personal
point of view, I didn't think Iwas ready, but I had confidence
that this one, whatever it is,it is what it is.

(56:03):
This one, whatever it is, it is, it is, it is what it is.
Number one is because my firstI think two and a half years it
wasn't a good experience as ShiaDahlia, but the other two years
I saw it can be different and Ithank God for that experience.
Because one side is okay.
Did I say I thank God?
Yes, I thank God.

(56:23):
So one side was like there's nohope.
And I know there are people whoin life, even as you speak,
right now, they're in a placewhere they can't see tomorrow,
they can't see what happenednext.
And then I go to this schooland I'm like it's possible.
Actually this can be done.
It doesn't matter if I'm giventhree months or four months.
That's why I was like it's KCSEanyway, yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
It could be worse than this Do you understand,
Because here we never actuallygo through a quarter a book of
KIE math.
There's no book that wefinished in any particular class
yes.
When we are hearing people inAlliance and other places finish
their syllabus in first orsecond term in form three and

(57:09):
the rest of the time is justgoing through everything and we
are told you know what?
Everything will come from oneand two.
Most of it, like 60 to 70%,will come from one and two.
Why we didn't cover nothing.
Now I say, this could be worse.
I'm here, I've seen it can bedone.
There are people who actuallyhave done it.
So for me, I was at least in abetter position when I did my

(57:32):
KCS.
You know, not the perfect one,but in a better position.
But what is it for you?
And, by the way, Sylvia.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
I actually think she should go first Tell us.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
How was it for you with the KCSE?

Speaker 2 (57:43):
KCSE was an interesting experience.
I liked that the papers werewell spaced and I am part of
Matiang's past bonds.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Ah, it was tough.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
No.
So while we were here, if youhad KCSE made familiar, it was
the equivalent of gold at thattime, yeah, true, yeah, we still
made familiar.
It was the equivalent of goldat that time.
Mine was stolen during thatKCNC period it was that bad
Because our papers were comingright from the past papers.
You've done them before,probably just as revision or

(58:17):
exercise.
But now you know they'rebringing them from any of this.
We have a whole book to gothrough.
People would book that book andwe'd go for tea break.
When someone is reading aquestion, a whole group, someone
answers.
We look at the answers becauseyou don't have time to borrow.
There are few.
They're not in the libraryanymore.
Everyone has borrowed.
It was insane.
So that experience was quitesomething for us.

(58:39):
We were selling KMF.
People were buying them.
We were selling KMF, peoplewere buying them, sending
teachers to buy them.
It was insane.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
What is KMF?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
KCSE Made Familiar.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
It's a book with all the past papers from
1990-something.
Is it like those books theycreate from sunshine, or these
are separate?

Speaker 3 (58:56):
It's just KCSE questions.
Oh okay, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yeah, and it's now pass-up.
So you have the KMF math youhave, and it's now per subject
so you have the KMF math, youhave all the past papers from
around 80 something, the currentlast year.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
So it's how your memory subs you it was all about
you.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
It was all crummy, for sure.
Yeah, so it was a verybeautiful period.
I enjoyed it when.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
I hear these experiences, I'm like, ah, my
life could have been differentfor sure tell you what I never
saw.
Most of these things, yeah, theclosest I come to like seeing
things really make sense isSimuturi solving problems no, no
, simuturi, that's the closest.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
These are the people who used to remember page books,
page numbers.
Let it be noted.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
No, that's the closest I came to it, and
especially my last two years.
Actually, they're not two years, it's like quite a few months.
So when I hear people actuallyused to revise, like you're
saying, I'm like wow, there's somuch inequality across the
country.
Apparently.
Even as we speak, there arepeople who are not doing CBC.

(01:00:13):
You'll be surprised by the waywhen these guys get tested.
There are people who are notdoing because every teacher is
also learning CBC and teaching.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
CBC.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Now here in Nairobi, of course, I've seen chaos Now
imagine outside Nairobi go tothe remotest place things that
people are requested to bringhere.
Like every other week, you'reprinting something for your kid.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Now imagine in Lopicha, the place that doesn't
even have electricity.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Do you understand so you can see CBC as much as and
I'm not critiquing it, I'm justsaying even with KCSE or KCP
there's those disparities.
Can we be able to harmonizeeducation so that the standard
is equal?
Because, me, I've always been abeliever that innovation,
smartness, iq is equallydistributed across the country

(01:01:02):
or even across the continent.
Now move away from Kenya.
Unless you have traveled a bit,you've seen it's chaos, total
chaos, that even if someonemakes it from that place, those
are the guys who change theworld, because they make
something out of nothing.

(01:01:22):
So, even as you have, those arethe guys who changed the world
because they make something outof nothing, nothing for sure,
right?
So, even as you have thesepodcasts, I want us to think
like, if really Africa has toreally change things, if you
have to be the impact masters,as we say, how can we?
Because tomorrow you might bethe minister of education Africa
, you know, I see Africa beingunited.
What can we do different?

(01:01:46):
To address a matter of advancedstuff, but things that actually
could spread and scale withoutmuch of loans and all these
things that people create aroundit and change the dynamics.
Because, having travelledacross this country alone and
meeting people who otherwise hadno idea where they want to be,
and now you see you can be sentin an unlikely university, you

(01:02:08):
guys, maybe you're sent to themost likely university.
You can be sent to an unlikelyone.
We have 65 universities and Idon't know if you know all of
them.
Maybe you guys know like fouror five.
I don't think I know all ofthem.
Imagine 65, if you are sent toone of those that you don't know
and you just know 5.
There are another 60 that youdon't know.
Imagine the chances of youmaking it Anything.

(01:02:30):
It's crazy.
So even when we do outreach,when we do some, of these things
.
The thing that we want people toknow is that we are presenting
a platform where resources areequal, you can access for you
and your friends, and if youcome together, it's even much
better but how?

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
was the KCSE, remember we moved to the dining
hall, the dining hall, thedining hall was rendered null
and void, personal and greater.
If you're not a FOM4, kindlyeat outside.
Why are you wasting our time?
Especially the third time itwas crazy.
I remember I also had my ownsection at the corner somewhere.

(01:03:13):
So KCC wasn't bad.
I don't think I picked areference.
I was actually thinking aboutwhether ours was from KMF or KCC
wasn't bad.
I don't think I picked areference.
I was actually thinking aboutwhether I was from KMF or KCC.
Made familiar.
I don't think it was for usbecause I was a year after I
came.
I did my exam a year after you.
I don't think it was, but itreally wasn't that bad.
It was, at least for me, please, at least for me, because I

(01:03:36):
think the more access you haveand I was actually just thinking
about how important access isto getting leverage, you know so
, for instance, the fact that wehad seen a couple of these
questions all across the board.
So some of these questions thathad come during our mocks or
our exams previously, or we hadseen them in, we had this we had

(01:03:59):
a lab manual that was printedlike to school owned.
We used to do, like labs, labpracticals every week, so every
day, actually in Form 4.
So you're imagining that evengoing into the lab sessions it
wasn't very difficult for usbecause these are questions we
had already come and seen, youknow.
So it wasn't really anythingnew Until recently, actually a

(01:04:21):
week ago, I was talking to somelady.
She's in form three and she'stelling me how they don't do lab
practicals.
I know they don't do labpracticals.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
There are schools which do not have labs Exactly,
or they have lab but they do nothave the equipment.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
They hardly ever use them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
And she's telling me how especially like because
she's in Form 3 right now, sothey're carrying Form 4s how
they've only gone to the lab.
They've only had three labsessions the entire year and I
was imagining how, by the end ofsecond term, going into third
term, how we were so fed up withlab practicals because it was a
daily thing.
It was during afternoon break.

(01:05:03):
You'd go to the lab 4.30, go tothe lab Daily, monday to Friday
.
If you did three sciences,you'd have lab practicals every
day, monday to Friday.
So you're imagining how.
I was actually even thinkingabout how access really puts us
at a different place all acrossthe like, all across, especially

(01:05:25):
within the education system,because there are people who
didn't have access or like theydidn't have the privilege that
we had, the information that wehad.
You're looking at things likeKMF.
How many students actually haveKMF till this day?
It's something that everyone,especially if you've gone to a
school that basically binds byit or prays by it or promises

(01:05:48):
like how to phrase it likespeaks to it, how KMF is very
important, but there's so manyother people and there's so many
other students who don't evenknow KMF exists, leave alone
having it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
And is it by design that they print less of that,
because this is the first timeI'm hearing about it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
They're just normal books.
You buy it in the textbookstore or anywhere.
It's just like any otherrevision book.
Maybe it's a bit expensive orsomething, so you can't have all
of them and you have manysubjects.
So maybe you have one, someoneelse has another subject.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
So you do exchange programs yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
You just schedule it, Say hey, can I borrow this
tomorrow?
So that's how it works.
Even the library had very fewthere were like two or three.
So the moment people realizedthe exam was everyone, everyone
ran together, but there werevery few, so you have to learn
how to read in a group or thingslike those.
And not everyone again actuallyhas access to them in the first
place.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Okay, makes a lot of sense.
You get to dining Person andgranta place.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Person and granta.
From one to three.
We shall not see you in thisdining hall.
I remember we actually wreckedHavoc in high school because we
shifted the sleeping times.
We were supposed to sleep by 11.
Now we're sleeping at 2 am.
People are not sleeping.
We really were not sleeping.
But I appreciate myself and Iappreciate my group members and

(01:07:10):
my friends and the entirety ofthe students of Loretta High
School in Muru 2017, because wepulled through for each other.
We really held each other'shands, we worked together and,
by and large, we did really well.
So, yeah, and it was not thegreatest experience I don't
think such pressure should.

(01:07:31):
I would not advocate for suchpressure but it was a good
experience.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Yeah, you have said pressure, and I remembered
earlier today I was saying, andI was remembering that people
ask can you work?
And I work well under pressure.
It's a statement that peoplepresent in their resumes or CVs
with pride and I realize, by theway, it's systematic, it's by
design because, if for sure andthis is an African culture that

(01:08:03):
we need to draw this one lastminute kind of approach whereby
you wait all along your K untilmaybe a day or few hours to you
put in everything.
And I think we develop thisfrom the exams that we do
everyday, whereby we don't tryto understand stuff, we try to
cram.
And again, just using theexample of the high school, I

(01:08:27):
went to the second one Irealized there are people who
don't struggle to understandthings and I learned a lot from
them.
Like, if you take time tounderstand when something is
presented and really you get itin your brain, it's really hard
for it to go, because these guysnever struggle to like it's the
last thing or there are peoplewho have leak or someone will

(01:08:50):
beat me.
This is what I understand.
This is what I will present.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
And you know like moves on.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
And these guys used to present really really good
examples.
One of the guys, the one I wastelling you about earlier, the
guy who anything, nothing, helooked at you know he took three
sciences, like took actually,if there were like four more, he
would have done them and he's aguy who will find in every
trouble that you think of.
He's a guy who was easy.
He used anything and everythingthat goes around, but he was

(01:09:18):
easy.
I'm living my life.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
It's actually interesting that you say that.
I have a friend of mine Wenthigh school together and we were
still in uni together and sheliterally only needs to sit down
and listen.
And she won't forget she onlyneeds to listen, take notes, for
just here I need to have a blue, black, red, yellow, green pen,

(01:09:44):
I need to underline italize.
I cannot understand with justlistening I will probably sleep
and what you're saying is veryimportant because there's so
many, and I think CBC hopefullydoes this leverages that playing
ground because we learn verydifferently.

(01:10:04):
True true.
We really learn very, verydifferently and you're imagining
someone only needs to sit downand listen and you need to put
in 65 hours and you're still notunderstanding half of the
things that you understand.
So, yeah, there is also thatneed to leverage and create
spaces where different learningstyles or architectures can

(01:10:26):
shine exactly and beincorporated together.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Yeah, so apparently that's very, very important, so
you performed really well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
What did you get?

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
I got an A-.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
A that's good, that's good.
So what did you get?

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
Thank, you, Thank you .
What did you get?
An A oh gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:10:46):
And you what did?

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
you get.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
I got a 141.
141?
, I got a 141.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Oh yeah, 141 in that crew of the 141 era.
So oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, youwere supposed to get an A in my
heart.

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
Oh, it's still an.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
A it is an A you are.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
You're the 142nd, however on the ground so one day
I'll tell my story it's one ofthe interesting stories for sure
when I tell it.
By the way, you'll see why it'svery interesting.
Okay, we can't wait, it's oneof the unlikely, unlikely, I'll
say one of the unlikely outcomes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Yes, yes, but anyway, you should be the one sitting
here now.
No one of these fine days I'llsit there, you should.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
My story is quite fascinating and I feel it's.
I'm not yet ready to tell it,because one it might.
It might impact in a negativeand positive way, both sides,
but I hope when I'm ready itwill impact in a positive way
and I feel like if I tell mystory right now, other people's

(01:11:53):
story would also soundinteresting to listen to.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
No for me.

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
Because I like when you tell your story, I can also
bring a few.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
And you see, that's how interesting it becomes,
because now I can see myself inone or the other.
But of course, one of thesefine days or in the coming years
, I'll be able to see it in tech.
I also have not seen someonewho can ask the right questions
yet.

Speaker 4 (01:12:22):
Have you tried For me ?
Have you tried?
Yeah, I have.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
I have.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Even some of my guests.
Sometimes we have a chat andI'm like ah, okay, okay, okay,
one guy, but of course gram.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Yeah, he's always.
Yes, I don't know if he'saround but yeah, he's a guy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
I feel like, ah, this guy can ask the right questions
but not yet.
Yeah, but uh, of course, evenhim.
It's really hard to get him asa guest.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
I think we'll get she has you should actually have
you exactly, but for him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
He has the stories for this in different subjects.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
Oh my goodness, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
Sometimes, even when you're having a discussion, I
feel like getting a mic andcameras, because I'm like if
people really had this acrossAfrica, it would change a lot of
things.
Even the way people view God,even the way people view the
Bible, even the way people viewIslam, even the way people view
technology, innovation In asubject.
And that's how I like some ofthe discussions, because I

(01:13:19):
believe Africans are endowedwith knowledge beyond our
imagination, even the guestsI've hosted here.
Oh my Like, we are not tellingenough.
There's so much.
But ideally you knew thatyou'll go to J-Quad, or was it
one of the selections, or howdid that happen?

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Yeah, I think it was my selection.
Actually, I wanted to do eitherelectrical or telecoms.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Why electrical or telecoms specifically?

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Specifically, I think it was feeding into the small
things of water.
You remember when I startedtalking about me being eight
years, so I forwarded that tonow, moving towards fixing the
DVD player at home a couple ofyears later and being the one
who was tinkering with stuff andmending things in the house,
even when I was in high school.

(01:14:09):
So there was that interest.
So after high school I sit downwith myself and I'm like and
it's interesting how around thesame time I was finishing up
with high school is the timewhen they had the Orenko, the
whole election petition, exactly.
So it was very insightful forme because I was like I do not

(01:14:30):
want to do this and that is okay, that is fine.
So I had to now go back to thedrawing board.
So by the time I'm finishinghigh school, I have no idea what
I want to do, but I just know Idon't want to do law.
So, um, and I think I wasactually thinking about it in
the morning it was a fast placeto the first.
This was the first incept ofcommunity, because my mom

(01:14:51):
introduced me to four engineers.
She introduced me to fourdifferent engineers.
She was like meet that one, gotalk to them engineers.
She introduced me to fourdifferent engineers.
She was like meet that one, gotalk to them, meet that one, go
talk to them, meet that one.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Go talk to them.
What kind of?

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
engineers.
There was a civil engineer,there was an electrical engineer
, there was a mechanicalengineer.
I think the other one had donewater engineering at something
to do with Kenya Water something.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Then also Were they all girls, or there were some.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
No, it was mixed.
It was two ladies, three ladiesand a gentleman.
And I remember also nowstarting to talk to my friends
who were in campus and askingthem how did you do this?
How are you doing this?
How are you able to do this?
What made you choose this takethis choice?
So I was actually thinkingabout how that you able to do
this, what made you choose this,take this choice?
So I was actually thinkingabout how that starting to talk

(01:15:39):
about the kind of problem I wasgoing through or the kind of
problem I had at the time, wasthe first incept for me in
community.
So, um, I think I kind oftinkered around, spoke to a
couple of people, decided so,come the time to do the
placement.
I decided, okay, let's justchoose J-Quart.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
So J-Quart, this and this school so you guys used to
do placement after the exam.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
We did twice so it was the first time before the
exam and then after the revisionso the first time I'd done, I'd
written law, so I'd done.
UN law it was actually UN law,nku, was it NKU?
It was UN law, ku law, jqat,all the laws, like you know, all
traditional schools thatactually offer law.

(01:16:27):
And then now, afterwards, nowcome the revision time, I'm just
like I can't do this, itdoesn't fit me anymore.
And now, having spoken to nowthis couple of engineers and
having gotten an insight intokind of the things that they
were doing, I really liked theengineering space, especially
the electrical engineering space.
But again, from a point of umignorance, I said Mr Kikukwa is

(01:16:53):
fondu astima, no becauseelectrical just translates to
that again, that's all I knew atthe time.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
It's not all there is , but that's all I knew and
remembering the blackout that wehad the other day, I have
something for these electricalengineers.
Like you guys, do you do youryour stuff real well.
I don't want to use the cursewords, but do you really do it
well?

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Actually, I read something very interesting on
Twitter on how it's acorrelation with the dropping of
thermal power at Tirokan orsomething.
Okay, let me not.
I probably will give rumors.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Explain that to anyone else, not typical
engineers, but it's all right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Yeah, we'll fix these things by then.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
For sure, for sure, like people are engineers, but
it's alright.
Okay, yeah, we'll fix thesethings, by the way, for sure for
sure.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Mark my words.
Some of these things I feellike not that I'm in a position
of power or anything, but Ibelieve there are some of these
that we should not beexperiencing To some extent the
kind of engineers that we have,the smartness that we have
across Africa there are somethings that we should have
encountered in the whole country.
But also I don't ignore thatsome of these things are by

(01:17:56):
design To some extent.
I don't really know, when youhave a blackout over 12 hours,
18 hours to some extent Becausethink of it this way, how much
losses do you bring people, evenindividuals who have maybe
stuff in the fridge or peoplewho wanted to work remote jobs.

(01:18:17):
If you think about it, the lossthat you incur is more than
whatever the design.
That blackout among as manyother failures and I'm happy
what, not even in the powerindustry, but what the new
government is doing, things likee-citizen.
I've been saying this for thelongest, maybe for the last 10

(01:18:38):
years that when I look at otherdeveloped world websites,
government websites, all theseengineers I interact with every
day and see some cool designs.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Where do?

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
you expect them to implement some of this cool
stuff.
So most of these guys end upgoing to Europe, going to US.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
Some of the engineers work, so most of these guys end
up going to Europe, going to US, going to you know, some of the
engineers work in the statehouse.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
by the way, from here , from this country, some of
them work for Tesla People.
I know, actually you know, likepeople here, say but why do we
let all this talent go?
Because of our selfish interest, whereby okay my cousin knows
how to write HTML and CSS putthem there and then you don't

(01:19:21):
want to hear anything and no onecan fire them.
We need to move beyond that.
We're not saying your cousinshould not get a job, but of
course except your cousin issupposed to be an intern first
to learn some of these thingsthere's also merit that comes
with it.
So let's be merit based, becauseof course, if you ask me, we
have actually more than theright talent we do.
There are people who reallygive up because some of these

(01:19:43):
opportunities are given out.
And also, let's encouragepeople to even do
entrepreneurship, whereby youcan actually consult for all
these people.
But the right as much.
As I've not seen so much fromthe current government, at least
they're on the right track.
When it comes to the systems.
Of course it doesn't look good.

(01:20:04):
It looks good, but when you goto the specific services,
they're not yet there.
But if we can be able to do allof these together and actually
this could be emulated fromRwanda.
If you go to Rwanda.
Here you can register businessin six hours, six hours, six
hours, so you could land there,register business and come back
home.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
Six hours is good.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
And they want to implement the Mauritius way of
doing business.
Yeah, yeah, so can you imaginethat?
So it can be done?
We're talking about things thatcannot be done.
The other day, we were at ALUand Kanagi Mellon in Rwanda and
we found all Africansrepresented there.
These guys built systems that Icould not imagine within, I
think, eight hours.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Six hours, the hackathon you had in Rwanda.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
So you can't tell me otherwise, I'm already sold out,
I'm already convinced this isworking.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
We actually have potential for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
So it's a matter of also because, you see,
innovation cannot exist invacuum.
So policies have to supportthese things to do with how we
perceive the solution.
We want to see the expectationfrom the citizens, Because I'm
proud to pay right now actuallyI would say confidently I'm
proud to pay for somethinge-citizen because of the

(01:21:13):
usability and all that.
Do you know?
Right now you can see your IDon e-citizen, you can see your
passport.
You can see your drivinglicense.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
This is the way it is .

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
So, even if you forgot it at home, people have
spent.
People may be in jail becausethey forgot their passport or
whatever it is, or drivinglicense and they could not show
it to a cop yeah.
This is serious.
Someone maybe is in jail as wespeak right now because they
forgot and the cop could not loginto his cell and see, imagine

(01:21:42):
how many lives will be improvedjust by that one experience.
So you know, william Ruto, hisExcellency, good job.
If it's you who is doing this,good job, keep doing it.
Present a merited kind of stuffor work that people could
actually plug in, and we supportyou from the tech ecosystem.

(01:22:02):
But of course, again, we needto address the electrical.
What was steamer?

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
What was steamer, categorically we can do better.

Speaker 1 (01:22:10):
That's what I can say right now, for sure.
So you didn't want to become amtuastema, so you didn't want to
become a trustee.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
I didn't want to become a trustee.
You see the kind of problems Ihave.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Yeah, I could be looking.
That would be your reputation.

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
Imagine I could have been the one in the hot seat,
having to explain why.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
I'll be looking in some kind of way Until I finish
school.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
May God be with you.
May God be with us all.
May God be with you.
May God be with us all.
So, yeah, I think it was from apoint of ignorance that I
picked telecoms, if I'm beinghonest.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
It was a point of ignorance.
So if you were given thatchoice again, you'd pick
electrical.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
No, I probably would See.
There's a poem we did in highschool, robert Frost.
There's a verse that says yousee how way turns on to way.
So having made that choice outof ignorance has led me to a
point where now I can't turnback, and I really like it, but

(01:23:07):
you know there's nothing happensby accident.
Nothing happens by accidenttrue, for sure, from the human
nature.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
We think okay just by accident also in this podcast
we get spiritual, so don't worry.
So, from the human perspective,you look at it and you're like,
ah, this was bad.
But when you, when you sit backand take time, you're like this
was meant to happen it was ifthis didn't happen.
This could not have happened.
If this didn't happen, you?

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
see things actually start now making sense.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Yeah, it starts tracking up, so you're on the
right track.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:23:36):
Yes, by and large.
So, yeah, I picked telecoms,got called, joined, started my
program.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
That was your first choice.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
It was.
It was my first choice wastelecoms and then electrical.
It was actually telecoms,telecoms, telecoms and then
electrical, electrical.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Those are different buses.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Yeah, telecoms at Jquart, telecoms at Multimedia,
because Multimedia, I think, wasthe only one that was offering
telecoms at the time.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
And then electrical at Jquart.
Electrical at UN.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
So UN doesn't offer telecoms.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Not that I know, when I was joining there was.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Maybe, when I was joining, there was
telecommunication engineers orsomething.
But you see, when I was joiningone of my guardian was, he used
to be a.
I don't know if it's a, they'recalled, not pilots.
I don't know if it's thepiloting, not pilots, the

(01:24:40):
engineers who deal with theaeroplanes, aerospace, aerospace
.
The guys who travel with thejets and stuff or aeroplanes.
Always there is an engineer.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
The first engineer.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:24:58):
But, in the military.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
So, yeah, when I tell my story I'll talk about him a
bit.
You should, so he's the guy whoactually showed me the reality
of engineering post what I hadexpected Me.
From day one, I wanted to be anengineer, but over time okay, I
wanted to be two things anengineer or a musician, but I
realized over time singing isnot my thing for some reason,

(01:25:22):
but I believe if I couldpractice enough and given an
environment, I could be amusician, so I don't rule it out
, but of course, the environmentdid not conspire with me or the
nature did not conspire with me, so nature did not conspire
with me, so I started alsotinkering around with law and
journalism, which actually didnot turn out, because I was

(01:25:43):
lucky enough to visit all theseuniversities before I joined
them that's amazing and everytime I went to any university I
had their own story, which I'lltell one day.
And when I went to theuniversity, I wanted to do
engineering.
It happened to be it.
But now I was like, why don'tyou do telecommunication

(01:26:04):
engineering?
it's quite on demand and, giventhe facts, who will make it?
I'm like when the mobile phonecame about, this wiring of you,
remember we had a wired kind oftelecommunication from Posta and
Telecom now the one that youcall Telecom they took those

(01:26:25):
wires down within a year.
Or they were taken down, or Idon't know what happened, or
they were harvested for somereason.
One year there was no, evenright now you might be surprised
there is no, they are calledline.
What are they Phone lines?
They are called phone lines.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
I guess the cables.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
The cable, the telephones.
Yes yes, but if you go to otherdeveloped world, those things
they still exist, they stillexist.
But here we took them within ayear.
That actually opened my eyes onhow fast the technology can
change.
So, number one, I wasdiscouraged with anything to do
with it.
Anything you say telecom, I waslike, ah, it was all software.

(01:27:04):
And again, another thing isthat I was thinking from the
point of like, what is thecourse that I could do?
That is one mobile two entrypoint is not that steep.
And I can start it.
I don't need anyone else.
I can build it.
I can start it if I wanted tobe an entrepreneur and I settled

(01:27:24):
on software engineering.
But after visiting KU, Ichanged my mind.

Speaker 4 (01:27:30):
Hey, KU this is not an engineering school.
What?

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
happened?
He is like ah, there is, thisis not an engineering school.
What happened?
He is ah, there is noengineering going on here.

Speaker 4 (01:27:42):
But don't worry when I tell this story, you'll hear
my view.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
That's my personal view.
Then law and journalism.
So I was left with law,journalism and anything to do
with computer science Right.
So I went to UN.
I visited, of course, the maincampus where journalism and no
journalism is offered.
Law is in.

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
Parklands.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
So I went to main campus like journalism I visited
actually some of those lectures.

Speaker 4 (01:28:09):
I was so disappointed .

Speaker 1 (01:28:11):
Then I realized this thing is for the beauty, not
even for the content orbrilliant or anything.
Then I realized, by the way,how many radio stations and TV
stations do you?
Have.
I did my math real quick.
Imagine I gave up in thatprocess Then when I saw I did
not perform really really wellthe languages, so it's not me.

(01:28:31):
So I was left with love and oneof engineering.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
So I was left with love, and one of engineering
especially, either.
Even then I was thinking aboutelectrical engineering.
So I was like I'll do somethingto do with engineering, but I'm
not so sure.
So when I went there they wereoffering electrical.
I was told if you want,actually, it's just opposite

(01:28:54):
main.
I was told, if you wantcomputing, or it's just opposite
.
I was told, if you wantcomputing or anything, go to
Chiromo.
Chiromo Is that where medicsare.
How come that engineering ishappening here but the other
engineering is happening theother side?
They said no it's notengineering, it's computer
science.
Between main campus and.

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):
Chiromo.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
I've done my enough research.
I was like this is better, I'mgetting everything at the same
place which is softwareengineering, anything to do with
computing, anything to do withcomputer science itself, and so
on and so forth.
So I went there and there wasthis guy called Labala you know,

(01:29:38):
what I asked him is there likea very affordable course that I
could do here as I wait, becauseyou used to wait for two years?
You guys are so lucky, by theway.
You guys are like you finishhigh school, you're in
university.
You used to wait for two yearsand a lot of things can happen
in two years.
I was like, ah, we used to offerICT diploma, but I don't think.

(01:29:59):
But if you're in hurry, youcould do computer science
diploma.
I'm like diploma Okay.
But to cut the story short,where I was going with this
story is that my guardian, whohappened to work for Air Force,
kenya Air Force.
He showed me the reality ofengineering.
One he said there is what wecall calculus, and he showed me

(01:30:23):
his books in the military.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
He showed me discrete math he showed me everything
like this is it?

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
I could not make sense what is happening here and
remember I've done some propermath in high school.
I'm like, ah, okay, calculusmakes sense to some extent, but
introductory part.
Like, what we did and struggledwith is introduction and this
is the thing.
Then we go to algebra.
Okay, remember, by the time I'mfinishing high school, I'm like
why are we dealing with A, b, c, d, x, y, whatever?

(01:30:53):
Then I saw the statistics.
Why are you writing here?

Speaker 3 (01:31:01):
What does this?

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
What's this symbol?
It's everywhere.
But he told me the reality.
This is what you're going todeal with.
But the catch of all this isthat these are just formulas
expounded, so if you understandthe formula, you'll have no
problem understanding all thesethings.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
All these things are details and I was like ah, not
that bad, I can understand theformula.
So I was able to survive.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
In case you see paper two, just two.
Three formulas got me goodmarks.
So, this one should not be hard.
So that's how I was introducedto engineering and also I was
given a reality check.
That's why I don't believe alsoin mentorship, because I
realized, okay, someone actuallycan tell you something and you
give up.
And if it's not well packagedand broken down, we could really

(01:31:52):
give up.
So that's the extent of whichwe went through and I believe we
could do more.
Especially, this actually goesdown to the people who are in
high schools and whatever.
If maybe you have a parent orsomething, don't do it when
someone has finished exams.
You know, even some parentsdon't expect you to go to

(01:32:15):
college.
That's what I realized overtime.
There are some parents whoactually, ah, she passed, now
what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
I never experienced that.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
When you get school fee.
Now you have to be, you knowthere's so much that comes with
people going to campus and someof them are like ah, maybe,
especially for girls, maybe sheshould finish high school, get
married, maybe do a small coursethere, Right, and we need to
change that perspective byactually engaging from and

(01:32:48):
that's one thing I like aboutCBC, that you don't engage
someone when at a certain stage,you engage them continuously.
But I'm not advocating fortransferring the teacher's
responsibility to a parent,because of course, the number
one a parent has bills to pay asall these things going on in
their life and some of them,maybe even they didn't have that
chance especially in Africansetup.

(01:33:09):
They are giving these chances totheir children and they are
working so hard for this chance,for their children to get this
chance.
So there is that.
So for you, you said you hadfour engineers.
You had the best of the best,four engineers to take you
through civil engineering whathappens in university, and I
believe all of them were inschool or they had graduated.

Speaker 3 (01:33:32):
No, they were actually professionals at the
time.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
Yeah, so you see you had the best experience.
This is what happens in school.
This is what you should expectafter school.
Imagine if everyone had thatchance.
Yeah, for sure, things would bereally different.
So you go to Jamaica.

Speaker 3 (01:33:47):
Jiquat, I think it's very different.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
There's.

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
Jiquat and there's Jujar.
They're two different places.
I was in Jquart, I'm in Jquart,not in Shucha.
Why do they call it Jujamaika?
I?
You're actually one of thepeople who use it very, very
often that I know of that's whatthey call it realistic and, by

(01:34:15):
the way, do you know why I gotthis name?

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
I never believed that it's called Jamaica the first
time I visited there and I sleptthere for, I think, two days
Doing my research, by the way.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
Uh-huh Research.
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Then there was nothing.
So those prefabs where youwatch TV I don't know if you
still watch TV there are someprefabs, they're in between,
when I came there actually, Itold you about it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:38):
Oh, they have like a TV upstairs, oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Actually, even they were worse than high school.
I don't know if they stillexist, those prefabs.
You know where people couldjust watch.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
TV and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
So when I saw that actually I was like what this?

Speaker 4 (01:34:53):
is serious.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
But next time I came there when I met Sylvia and I
think you it was, I think sevenyears of almost ten years down
the line I was so impressedbecause there was so much going
on.
There were buildings, there wasnow JICA there was you know IAB
was set up there.

(01:35:14):
you know the place looked reallylike a was.
You know IAB was set up there.
You know the place lookedreally like a university, like
you know something nice.
That's when I heard that it'scalled Jujaboys and I could not
dispute then because it lookseven worse than a high school.
It was that bad.
The only place that looked likeyou know this can be a college
is the I don't want to to callthem garage, but the places

(01:35:38):
where mechanical engineers, theworkshops here where they do
their thing, those still existedand you can see they're pretty
old.
That's why now you could go andsay for sure, people do some
stuff here.
But despite that, the point Iwant to make here is despite all
this and also big up to Dadaand Kemali, people drive and
this is why now I want people tolisten to me carefully.

(01:35:59):
It doesn't matter theenvironment you're in.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
It's what you do with that environment.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
And if you're really self-driven, you could achieve a
lot.
What actually you guysexperienced at J-Quad was not
there.
It's because of those guys,even the project about rockets
was not there.
Because those guys madeeveryone believe that anything
serious should be happening inthe future.
And guess what?
The biggest contributor of thatis community, for sure a lot of

(01:36:25):
you still, guys are holding theculture.
There is another podcast I willrelease from an old boy of
Chuteku please do.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
How was your experience in Chuteku?
An old boy of J-Quad reallyinteresting.
It's so interesting how wasyour experience In J-Quad?
It's, it's, I think.
How's my experience Trying tothink here?

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Were you used to many people so far.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
By this time.
I'm used to to a lot of people,so even transitioning to
J-Quart is not that big a hurdle.
And then for a majority of thetime I was commuting, so it
wasn't all that bad.

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
The scholar, yeah, the scholar.

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
So come to classes.
Unfortunately for me, classickybounce.
If the class bounces on my wayto school, I need to find things
interesting to do with my day.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
Because you are not going back home.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
Yeah, sometimes I'd actually have to go back home.
You're on transit, you havenowhere to go in between and
it's probably like 8 in themorning.
Why are you going at 8 in themorning?
So you just go back home?
Yeah, but generally myexperience in JQAT has been very
, very great and I like whatyou're saying because I was

(01:37:41):
talking to a friend of mine.
He graduated with you actuallyand we're talking about how
different people experience JQATdifferently.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Yeah, oh, that's true .

Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
Depending with how what you do with your time.
Yeah, people in your class.
She graduated last year.
People in her class this year?
Oh, yeah, sorry, she graduatedthis year.
People in your class?

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
experience jayquats differently.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
Please explain.
I was looking at, and sometimesI'm actually even looking at
the kind of exposure I've gotten, especially within the last two
years.
You know with now the projectsI'm doing or the kind of
associations I'm having withsome of my lecturers and some of
industry people in industry,and all of this is also stemming

(01:38:30):
from the fact that I'm inuniversity at the time.
You know, and I do not want byno means am I saying I am better
than anyone but you have adiscussion with someone, someone
who's also in engineeringschool, and you can see the
difference of what exposure hasdone and you can see, you can
clearly tell that we are goingthrough the same school but

(01:38:51):
having very differentexperiences and having very
different stories of what we'regoing out of from J-Quad, what
we're going out with from J-Quad.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
Yeah, so, yeah, yeah.
So you're so modest about thisand with your colleague here
saying, yeah, yes, these arepeople who have traveled to
Japan, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
So they should not be modest.
They should be telling you howto do it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
You know what I they should be telling you how to do
it.
Guys, I believe in one thingthere are more opportunities for
all of us.

Speaker 4 (01:39:20):
Actually, there are more than enough for all of us.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
It's not a zero-sum game, because I have, you don't,
so I believe that if I knowsomething, why not share?
Of course there are people whotake advantage, but, should I
remind, I've done my part, soyou have been building rockets
for the longest.

Speaker 3 (01:39:39):
The longest is relative, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
No, one year nine months is long.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
Oh yeah, One year nine months is long, Let me show
you how long it is.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Starlink has launched in Kenya.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
Here there is a IoT satellite that has launched
across the world.
Kenya launched their ownsatellite, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
Uganda also launched their own satellite India
launched a rover.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
Which one crashed in the whatever, was it India?
Yeah India between those oneyear, so it's all short, it's
all short.
A lot of things have happenedaround you know aeronautical and
space and engineering alltogether, and this not only
comes to as failures or assuccesses.

(01:40:28):
It comes as lessons foreveryone depending on how you
look at it.
And for you, you have beenbuilding rockets.
How is that?
Because you know when I wasgrowing up.

Speaker 4 (01:40:39):
Well, when I say that now I feel old.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
We were used to tell this is not rocket science.
I need to just tell you this isnot the hardest thing and I
should tell you rocket scienceis hard, but you're building
these rockets.
How is it like?
Is it home earth?
Is it hardware?
Please take us through astandard or grade two.

Speaker 3 (01:41:03):
Introduction Rocket science 101.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
This is where you shine.
But how did you start from?
How did you get into it?
How?

Speaker 3 (01:41:13):
I got in, I saw a post some time back where
someone said it was two photos.
So there's one, a rocketscientist who's teaching
students, and he's like no, itwas a music lesson.
So the teacher says it's notthat hard, it's not rocket
science.
And then the next photo, it's arocket scientist teaching
children rocket science, andhe's like it's not that hard,

(01:41:33):
it's not music theory.
Children record science andhe's like it's not that hard,
it's not music theory.
you see, really depends with howyou look at it.
But, um, I think, first andforemost and what we need to
understand, especially to the,those people who are young and
also joining the space,engineering space getting a
foothold is the problem, is thebiggest hurdle you have to cross
.
After that, you go through stepby step, you're literally

(01:41:57):
spoon-fed.
I remember when we were infirst year we had chemistry
classes and physics classes.
We had to go back to highschool physics, high school
chemistry, high schoolmathematics.
So it's a build-up.
So, even by the time right nowand I was actually thinking
about your guardian if right nowI show you the kind of things
we're working with with digitalsignal processing, that's a

(01:42:20):
whole mountain to climb.
But what you forget is thatthere was a previous class I
took and a previous class I tookand a previous class I took,
and every semester there'salways that lecturer who says
from your previous knowledge,and sometimes you ask yourself
which knowledge.

Speaker 4 (01:42:33):
You know, it's always .
It's a build up and the.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
you ask yourself which knowledge you know it's
always a build up, and the samething with rocket science.
So how did I start?
How did I start?
I remember when I was in highschool I really used to watch,
really used to like watchingSpaceX rocket launches.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
The same SpaceX, yeah , when they were same SpaceX,
yeah, same same SpaceX when theywere failing terribly.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
Yes, when they were failing terribly.
I remember there was one timethey were trying to recover the
second stage and it failed,massively failed.
And I found it very interestingand I remember my mom used to
come to my bedroom and ask meand by the time I don't even
have a laptop, I'm watching on avery small screen, a very small

(01:43:18):
phone Like what are you doingawake at 3am?
Because that's the only timethat they were launching, so you
have to stay up until 3am towatch it.
And I don't want to watch it asa past recording.

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
No, I want it to be there.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
So I think that was like the first introduction to,
like, the entire space industryor the entire space world.
So, coming to university, I'vebeen very, very lucky to meet
people, especially even in myclass but also outside of it, to
be people who share myinterests, people who feed into

(01:43:59):
my interests, those people whowill call you June SpaceX I
remember in first and secondyear we used to call each other
but SpaceX is launching.
Ebu wake up.
Eh, this is what's happening,ebu wake up.
There's this test that you know, ebu wake up, and it was not
for anything, but just watchingand seeing this engineering

(01:44:19):
beauty come to life.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
And seeing a rocket going into outer space and
wondering, wow, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
And now they land back, and they land back Exactly
, and they land back perfectly.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Precisely, precisely, yeah, precisely.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
Precisely so, trying to even imagine yourself in that
space and making up these bigwild dreams of being in that
space.
I remember one time I was inthird year I was going home.
I'd had a class.
It was something called SESTech Week.
She was part of the organizers.

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):
And the chair.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
That's when I met you guys right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
I don't think I met you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:06):
It was during that time.
After that, that's when youbecame the chair.

Speaker 3 (01:45:11):
She was the chair then.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
You guys know how to be modest.
She's the one who welcomes.
She's like you're from theAfrica, stocking this way,
please?
I'm like, what do you do aroundhere?
You know you're trying toplease upstairs and she has very
good PR.

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
She has very good PR my goodness let.
She has very good PR.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
My goodness, let me tweet her on Going back to the
story, I'll speak about thatstory in conclusion.
One day.

Speaker 3 (01:45:46):
Alright, alright, awesome.
So during SES Tech Week and I'dcome in the morning and it had
not started.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
So what is SES Week?

Speaker 3 (01:45:59):
SES Week is basically a culmination of engineers
coming together.

Speaker 1 (01:46:04):
What is SES?
Maybe that's the right question.

Speaker 3 (01:46:06):
SES is the Society of Engineering Students, JECWA
chapter.
It's basically a community forengineering students across the
space to nudge out about thethings they do, to learn
together, to grow together, toexperience life together.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
When was SES started?
Ses is S-E-S.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:46:26):
When was this started it?

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
was started in 2000.
It was about 15, 16 yearsbefore the time of taking over,
so it's been there for a coupleof years so probably early 2000s
yeah, or early 2010s, aroundthat time frame yeah, just get
the right.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Yeah, because when I was in school, I don't think
there was sales per se or it wasnot that big because we used to
invite some of your guys forhackathon if you don't finish
that statement and and then havea second when we used to beat
them hands down.

Speaker 3 (01:46:57):
Oh, now do you.

Speaker 1 (01:46:59):
We do, even today.
I'd love to see that battle, bythe way, Do they happen where
schools actually invite eachother nowadays?

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
We really try, like in your time, did you like?

Speaker 1 (01:47:11):
Hallmoot Media.
You know UON Technical.

Speaker 4 (01:47:15):
University of Kenya.

Speaker 1 (01:47:18):
JQAT KU.

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
Definitely we really try, like the student body,
let's say the CES body, and forexample in UN.

Speaker 1 (01:47:26):
Maybe we should organize one.

Speaker 2 (01:47:29):
Let's even forget that they are organizing.

Speaker 3 (01:47:31):
We should organize one, yes, where we see, yeah,
that would be really amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
Let's plan something.
Yeah, Because that also gave usan idea where people stop just
dumping and they realize thereare people who are smarter.
You know, by this time youmight think you're the smartest
person in the world.

Speaker 3 (01:47:50):
Until you meet people who are like, and then they're
very chill about it.
They don't look like it.
They don't look like it likeI'll give you.

Speaker 1 (01:47:57):
I'll give you this.
And like when this used tohappen it was not organized by
us, but of course we wereparticipating, but you guys even
came, listened to the intro andthen disappeared and then when
by then, akadana was nothappening in a single day, so
happening in a single day.
So when it comes to presentation, that's when people realize ah,
so these guys did not just goto do other things, they went to

(01:48:21):
prepare how to representthemselves and people used to
present some serious, seriousprojects, because some of these
projects is like the one that'sbeen developed over time about
health management system.
I think maybe some of yourcolleagues or classmates have
started for a long, long timebecause, it's well-founded and
also it's a problem that existsin the health sector.

(01:48:43):
So maybe please remind me if Iforget about that we should
organize something, if not 2023,2024.
But, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:48:53):
Where was I?

Speaker 1 (01:48:55):
You're explaining to us what CESS is.

Speaker 3 (01:48:56):
Oh, cess is.
So yeah, I think that's just anintroduction to who CESS is.
So there's usually our techweek, dedicated week just for
projects.
There's also a hackathon right.
There are breakouts.
There are breakouts fordifferent industries and
different tracks, the likes.
So I remember this morning Iwent to SES week.

(01:49:20):
At the time I was stillcommuting and I was not involved
in community at all.
I think it was actually mysecond meeting, so sorry.
So I got to SES in the morningand they haven't started and had
a class.
I decided let me just go toclass.
I leave class and he said letme pass by.

(01:49:41):
I was going home, let me justpass by five minutes max.
And then shock.
So I walk in and I remember, um, there was, this Japanese guy
was talking.
He's very, very silent.

Speaker 1 (01:50:00):
He's talking, but he's silent.

Speaker 3 (01:50:03):
He is, he talks and he's very silent.

Speaker 1 (01:50:06):
So when he talks, he talks.

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
How does it work?

Speaker 3 (01:50:12):
I have no idea what example to give you.
He talks, but you can stillfeel him silent even when he's
talking.

Speaker 1 (01:50:20):
So he doesn't talk loud, no, no, actually, but
neither does he talk.

Speaker 3 (01:50:25):
Very composed, very serene, very flatline.

Speaker 1 (01:50:30):
I see that picture, those people who are flat-toned.

Speaker 3 (01:50:34):
I don't even think it's flat-toned, it's just
ambience.

Speaker 4 (01:50:41):
The level of composure is extreme.

Speaker 3 (01:50:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
Okay, I would love to meet him.

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
You should.
So I remember I was strugglingto hear him but I could see he
was doing a presentation and Icould see a rocket.
And I was struggling to hearhim but I could see he was doing
a presentation and I could seea rocket and I was like five
minutes turns into ten minutes.
I can stay for this one.
And then a very tall gentlemanstands and is introduced to be a
student and he's the one who'sleading this project and he

(01:51:13):
talks so passionately about thekind of things they're building
with rockets.
10 minutes ended up being himand the entire presentation, and
I remember I was at the door soI told myself I'm not going to
let this opportunity pass me by.
So, as they were leaving, Ijust dashed out Hi, how are you?

(01:51:34):
My name is Jinhoof and I wouldlike to.
I would like to join theprogram.

Speaker 1 (01:51:37):
Thanks yeah, so were they like pitching for people to
?

Speaker 3 (01:51:39):
do?
They were they were.
So what happened it?
Uh, it was an introduction or,uh, basically a presentation of
nakuja and what the kind of workthey were doing.
So the japanese man was oursupervisor, dr shoya awoki, and
the young gentleman waswashington Kamadi, who was our
leader, was the leader of Nakujaat the time.

Speaker 1 (01:51:59):
So, um so, so what is Nakuja?
You know?
Nakuja in Swahili means I'mcoming.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
Which makes sense if you think about it, because that
rocket will go and come back.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
Do they have that in mind when they're saying Nakuja
I generally?

Speaker 3 (01:52:16):
wish, I knew, but it's not a Japanese.
It is a Swahili word, becausethere's also a country project
that's Jubebe for electricvehicles.
So yeah, we would like to meetthe people who gave them these
names.
We really would.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
There's also a country project that's Jubebe
for electric vehicles.
So yeah, we would like to meetthe people who gave them these
names.
We really would.

Speaker 3 (01:52:34):
That's incredibly creative, is it they are?
Is it creative?
Think about it.
Jubebe makes you carry yourselfright, because it's an electric
vehicle.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
It's very straightforward, it's so
ingenious.

Speaker 3 (01:52:42):
The rocket.
It's genius.

Speaker 4 (01:52:44):
Exactly, jubebe, it's so ingenious the rocket, it's
genius, so Tipeba is alsohappening at.
J-quad.
Yes, yes, okay, is it workingor yes, it is, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
It is.
I love how you guys are inharmony on this, because it's
true, and passionately, we'veseen it working.
We've seen it in the projectTaifa laptop.
You guys are doing assembling.

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
Which.

Speaker 1 (01:53:04):
I had an issue with, because I believe you guys could
be able to collaborate with thecapacitor.

Speaker 4 (01:53:09):
Oh, yeah, true, true, true.

Speaker 1 (01:53:12):
I'm also a believer of collaboration, because
working in silos mostly delivers.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
It doesn't, it really really doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:53:20):
But anyway.
So Nakuja is a project aroundrockets that can actually land
themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
Yes, for now it's we're building.
They're called amateur rockets,so they're not the SpaceX level
kind of rocketry yeah.
And rocketry is like tucked.
So there's model rockets andthere's amateur rockets, and
then now we go into morecommercial and large scale

(01:53:46):
rocketry.
So we're basically an amateurrocketry group.
We build rockets from scratch.
That is inclusive of thepropellant, which is very
interesting if you did chemistry, if you like, mixing things up
and seeing things burn, Please,please please.

Speaker 1 (01:54:00):
I said we are grade two, sorry.
Now, when you talk aboutchemistry and this is chemicals,
right, and now they react witheach other to create some
proportion right yeah how isthis?
What is this mixed together?
You know, because the theearliest I think people get
engage with chemistry is whenthey take the matchstick.

(01:54:22):
They load it on the wire.

Speaker 4 (01:54:24):
That is on a bike.

Speaker 1 (01:54:26):
I don't know what to call that wire.
You know the wire that holdsthe rim from collapsing.

Speaker 4 (01:54:34):
The spool Is this called a spool Spook.

Speaker 1 (01:54:37):
Yeah, the spook, that's the right one.
So there's a way we used tocarve it as young boys Then use
a nail and a thread and then weput the powder, the matchstick
powder, which actually lightsthe matchstick, and then we
place the nail on top of thatand then we hit it against a

(01:55:01):
stone or something and then itproduces like a pop sound, like
a bullet.
And I think still boys do that,or I don't know if it's boys or
guys.

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
I've actually never even heard of that.
That's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
It still happens, because during sorry say that
again- this is something I'll betrying soon.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
No absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
It's fun, but also you might get into trouble.
So I see most people try itduring Christmas or New Year
because there's so muchfireworks happening so you're
not disturbed.

Speaker 3 (01:55:29):
You can join in the fun Before the fireworks,
especially in Mombasa.

Speaker 1 (01:55:34):
You know something's happening, but you're not seeing
the fireworks.
That's why I'm assuming theseare boys being boys or girls.
These are girls being girls,but given it's late at night, I
highly doubt girls are doingthat, but you never know.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a change of world sothat's.
That's the closest, I thinkearliest age and then when you
understand chemistry, and yousee, potassium react with what.

(01:55:56):
What triggers potassium?

Speaker 3 (01:55:59):
water.
What's that water?
Remember?

Speaker 4 (01:56:01):
this is like we have a chemistry engineer.
Yeah, we have a.
We have a chemical engineer, wehave a proper chemical engineer
Oliver should tell us, becausewe have four mics.

Speaker 3 (01:56:11):
I remember Potessi used to dart around the surface
of water with a pop sound.

Speaker 1 (01:56:16):
He's highly reactive with water.
So when you think about allthese things are fun In the
COVID, they're really, reallyfun so when I hear you talk
about proportion.
Now, even me, I'm interested inrocket science.
So I also think science shouldbe fun.

Speaker 4 (01:56:35):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:56:36):
I know it requires resources for sure, but it
should be fun enough that thisreminds me of something very
interesting that I did afteruniversity.
So I used to run C4D Computingfor Development and there was
this startup called FunkySci andwe met them at the Innovate
Nairobi.
They were one of the presenters.

(01:56:56):
I didn't get to interact withthem, but it started back in the
day, I think, 2014.
And what they were trying to dois make science fun to kids so
they could go do an experiment.
of course, parents pay some feeand that, I think, also brought
children close to science andlike it from the fun side of

(01:57:17):
things, because science mostlyis presented as this odd thing
that you know.
You don't even understand whyyou need to learn some of this.
But now you've talked aboutproportion.
So what happens in thatpropulsion?
Because most of us, evenscientists, like us.
We see starlink launch somerocket and then there's a lot of
fire and then it cuts it's.

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
What do you call it?

Speaker 1 (01:57:38):
it's cut off.
Then something else happens andto some extent there is no fire
yeah so that fire is what?
Where the chemical?

Speaker 3 (01:57:45):
reaction is happening .
So what actually happens aroundit?
Mostly what will happen isyou'll have a lot of kinetic
energy.
You have a lot of build up ofenergy, and the best thing about
energy is that it's able topropagate itself for a long time
.
So that's where you find thatonce, for instance, in this more
commercial rocket, you'll haveit burn for a.

(01:58:08):
In this more commercial rocket,you'll have it burn for a while
, ignite out the fire mostlyit's usually liquid hydrogen and
then have that energy propelitself for a while, so that when
you're able to cut it off toaround 1,000, 2,000, 5,000
kilometers, it's still able tocontinuously propel itself.
So for us, being that we don'tgo to such high distances, we

(01:58:29):
basically just build very smallnot very small, but just small
enough compact propellant,basically cooking potassium
sorbitol.
It's called KNSB Potassiumnitrate sorbitol.

Speaker 1 (01:58:43):
So potassium, what's the second one?
Sorbitol is a chemical.
It's a chemical by itself, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:58:52):
And so cooking it and just mixing it together.
We should actually share thisvideo of how people actually
cook Please, yes, yes.
I will Of just making and thennow compacting it, so just
placing it into very tightpackets.
So if you have seen, these arethings we used to play with when
we were kids that used to lightup like fireworks.

Speaker 4 (01:59:15):
Not fair.

Speaker 3 (01:59:17):
Which ones they even bought.
They're usually red, they'revery red things with a thread,
and then you just light it upand it's Maruti, maruti, yes, so
you guys are so bougie.

Speaker 1 (01:59:35):
You used to buy those things to just play with them.

Speaker 3 (01:59:38):
Yeah, you used to make them.

Speaker 1 (01:59:40):
Oh, you used to make them.

Speaker 3 (01:59:40):
No me, I never used to make them.
No me anything I played with.

Speaker 1 (01:59:42):
I used to make it For real.

Speaker 3 (01:59:44):
Yeah, except Bantai, you don't know if you know Banta
Bano?
Yeah, bano, that's sointeresting.
I used to play them, for, likewe used even to make a.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
I'm sharing too much.
We used to make even wire carsmodel.
Like you would see, nissanSunny was a big deal then, until
nowadays you have a.

Speaker 3 (02:00:02):
Nissan Sunny.
Build an Audi of a Nissan Sunny, bill and Woody.

Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
But Nissan Sunny, we could see it.
You know how they pimped it tohave even some nice sporty
looking, you know.
And then Safari Lally was big,so we could see some nice model
and then make them and then sellthem to other kids, like when
you're driving it.
A kid okay, a bougie kid seesthat car or that wire or
whatever they used to use a.

(02:00:25):
They're called what Wire mesh.

Speaker 3 (02:00:27):
Oh yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:00:28):
So when they cry for it, the parent has to buy it and
be like how much is this?
Give us like 500.
And then 500 was really goodmoney and then you make another
one right.
So those are some of the thingsthat you used to make.
I have a brother who is aproper engineer.
He even started making radioswhen he was I don't know, plus

(02:00:50):
six or seven.
But unfortunately he didn'tpursue it as a career.
He could really make a reallygood electrical engineer, but
for me I was the guy who used tobe made things and I was the
luckiest guy.

Speaker 3 (02:01:04):
Yeah, then you were selling them now.

Speaker 1 (02:01:06):
Me I was more of a silent kid.
I was the luckiest guy.
Yeah, then you were sellingthem.
Now Me, I was more of a silentkid.
I was a last born, so you canimagine.
Of course, everything was donefor me Especially, but I could
do it If I wanted to.
So I think you can See what ishappening here, but I used to

(02:01:27):
see this actually happen in realtime and I was so fascinated
Like how could you be able evento think and shape those wires
to really form?

Speaker 4 (02:01:34):
right angles.

Speaker 1 (02:01:36):
No, this one will go, this one, and then tie it using
the tube.
You know they got the bladdersfrom the bicycle tube or car
tubes.

Speaker 4 (02:01:48):
Oh, the black ones.

Speaker 1 (02:01:49):
Actually some of them were like brownish, so they
could actually make differentcolors of those cars, because
they could tie all the wiresusing those bladders and their
car could really look neat.
Some of them were as strong ascarrying a kilogram of sugar and
you're driving it.
Some ingenuity right there it'scrazy, like that's why I

(02:02:09):
believe africans again.
If we really, if we really arein this ingenuity, we could not
be buying cars, you know, wecould actually be making our own
cars anything else, but at theend of the day we'll get there
I'm so sure about it.
So yeah, when we talk about this, you're like ah, did you make
these things?

(02:02:29):
But anyway, I understand whyyou could buy it.

Speaker 3 (02:02:32):
Yeah, at the time I did not know where my life would
take me.
So basically, yeah, just packthem up, then fire them out.
So as you fire it out, itproduces actually fire and also
a lot of energy as it combusts.
So that energy is what propelsit.

Speaker 1 (02:02:49):
So how far do you propel those rockets?

Speaker 3 (02:02:52):
We have iterations, so for each iteration we have a
different goal.
So the first one was 50 meters.
We got to 32 meters.
The second one was a targetgoal of 500 meters.
We got to over 200 meters.

Speaker 4 (02:03:08):
And then.

Speaker 3 (02:03:09):
now we're at two kilometers, target of two
kilometers.
Now the target is twokilometers.
The current iteration now istwo kilometers.
So let me ask this.

Speaker 1 (02:03:18):
So when you target this, do you do the calculation
of the?

Speaker 4 (02:03:21):
mix-up.

Speaker 1 (02:03:23):
How long it will take to burn and how do you go about
this?
Do you like burn it and see howfar it will burn?
Do you create an environmentthat this chemical will burn
Because different?

Speaker 4 (02:03:33):
environments will burn this Differently for sure.

Speaker 3 (02:03:38):
So the best thing about all this is that space has
become democratized, so there'sa lot of information out there,
right?
So that's usually the firststep.
So there are equations thathave been made publicly
available.
There are data sets that havebeen made publicly available.

Speaker 1 (02:03:53):
By SpaceX or everyone .

Speaker 3 (02:03:55):
By SpaceX, by Richard Naka, by us.
For instance, nakuja is alsoopen source.
So you want to build a rocket?
You can just followdocumentation, build your own
iteration of a rocket, right?
So there are so many otherorganizations, both student and
open source, and rathercommercial organizations, that
have made this open source.

(02:04:16):
So, basically, using data sets,you're able to one learn, and
using equations, you're thenalso to.
You're also then able topredict how, what one, what you
want and what you need to get to.
You're also then able topredict how, what one, what you
want and what you need to get towhat you want right?
So first, the first step ofeverything is usually sitting
down going back to yourequations, going back to your

(02:04:38):
chemistry, going back to yourphysics, going back to your
mechanical because again,there's also a lot of mechanics
that comes into play.
So, going back into thenitty-gritty, of all that um,
then from there you're able tosay so, we wanted to get to 50
meters.
So how much of potassium do weneed?
How much of subitol do we needto be able to propel, and for

(02:05:00):
how long do we need to burn itfor for us to get to 50 meters?
How long do we need to burn itfor for us to get to 2
kilometers?
How big do we need it for it toburn to 2 kilometers Again?
There's also now the and Ithink this now comes into now
questions of systems engineering, because there's also a concern
of weight, because you don'twant it to be very heavy,

(02:05:24):
because then otherwise you'llreduce your target.
It's called an apogee, themaximum height you want to get
to.
It'll reduce your apogee.
If your rocket is too heavy,right?
If it's too light, then itmight not burn very, it might
actually even burn up.
So there's like so manyintricacies that we now want to
now look into.

Speaker 1 (02:05:43):
Have you ever carried someone in that rocket?

Speaker 3 (02:05:47):
No, you can't even put your hand.
You can't even put your hand init.

Speaker 1 (02:05:50):
I was just thinking out loud, then it doesn't come
back.
Has any of those come back,landed safely?

Speaker 3 (02:05:58):
Safely.

Speaker 4 (02:06:00):
It's a relative.

Speaker 3 (02:06:01):
We're working on it Safety is very, very important,
but unfortunately we haven'tever been able to deploy
parachutes because ideally wewould want to have parachutes.
So for all our iterations wehaven't been successful in
deploying parachutes.
But this current iteration weare very, very hopeful because

(02:06:23):
we have done a little bit moretests, we have done a little bit
more simulations, we have donea little bit more simulations
and more live testing and thelikes.
So we're actually very excitedto launch because we want to see
whether it works.

Speaker 1 (02:06:36):
Oh nice.
I believe Elon Musk, if you'relistening, is a girl who can use
expertise around here, but alsoyou must believe that if they
have done something, they shouldopen source it.
And I think most of it is opensource.
And they have done all thesethings actually successfully.

(02:06:57):
You guys, do you use some ofthat knowledge or not?

Speaker 3 (02:07:01):
We do, but contextually Understand that
they're having very big rocketsand the propellant they're using
right now is actually liquidpropellant, not solid propellant
.
So for us you can either haveit as liquid or solid.

Speaker 1 (02:07:16):
So your packets are solid.
Solid, yes, and you ignite themand then yes.

Speaker 3 (02:07:21):
So you can either have your propellant to be
either solid or liquid.

Speaker 1 (02:07:24):
So liquid is more complex because you have to
release it.

Speaker 3 (02:07:26):
Yeah, with pressure with compression you're looking
at things like nozzles, so it'sa bit more complex, but is it
more?
efficient it is.
It is more efficient especiallythe further up you go, or like,
the further higher you go, itis more efficient.
So ideally currently for okay,I will get to that.
So with SpaceX, some of thedata, most of the data is

(02:07:50):
actually Open source, but we useit Contextually what works for
us.
So, for instance, things likethe avionics systems Do work for
us right, because we'll seethat the kind of data that
they're collecting here Is alsothe kind of data that we need.
So for avionics systems, we canuse that.

(02:08:10):
But for propulsion, then comes abit of a concern.
With airframe also comes a bitof a concern because they're
using very small rockets, but wedo use data.
So currently we have this Okay,we're funded by Joica and for
final layer, you can actually doyour final layer project.
So I have a friend of mine whomthey actually two groups

(02:08:33):
actually are working on buildinga liquid engine for future uses
.
So they're actually in touchand in conversation with some
SpaceX engineers so that they'reable to.
They actually, I think, havemeetings almost on a weekly
basis just to share informationor like to also understand.

Speaker 1 (02:08:51):
You should be building these things.
Sorry, you should be buildingthese things.

Speaker 3 (02:08:54):
Yes, we should you you should.
Okay, my interest, my interestis not in liquid propulsion,
it's not in propulsion, it's inthe avionics system, in the
computer, in the brain, yes, inthe computing time.
So again, there's so many thenuances in even in that rocket
system.
So we, for instance, for us, wehave a propulsion propulsion

(02:09:15):
team, so both solid and liquid.
We have an airframe team, sothe basic framework, how the
body looks like, how the finswill be placed, you know, know
how it will look like, whatmaterial to be used, and then
there's also now the computingand the brain behind it.
What kind of data are we goingto be collecting, for how long?
How are we going to bedeploying our parachute?

(02:09:37):
You know.
So that's now where my interestlies and how is that working
out Very fun, very, very fun.
I like failing.

Speaker 4 (02:09:56):
But I understand also with Rocket the margin should
be really thin on zero.

Speaker 1 (02:10:02):
Of course zero is impossible, but it should be
really, really thin, because youcan imagine if I wanted a
rocket to land in Kisumu andthen it lands in Kampala.

Speaker 4 (02:10:13):
That's a big problem.
So, many issues.

Speaker 1 (02:10:17):
They can cause war yeah for sure.
If someone was in that rocketmaybe like June, well-educated,
charismatic then they burst intoflame out there.
That's a life lost, or we sendyou to the moon and then we
can't bring you back.

Speaker 4 (02:10:36):
We can't bring you back Because now the software
Take you to the moon.
It's actually a goodinteresting movie.

Speaker 1 (02:10:41):
Yeah, and there's so many things that actually, when
you think about them practicallyyou see why error is not
allowed.

Speaker 4 (02:10:48):
True.

Speaker 1 (02:10:49):
Or maybe it should be minimal.
Have you ever thought ofbecoming an astronaut?

Speaker 3 (02:10:58):
At one point I did, but I think I like being on
ground with Earth, more I liketo feel the you know the ground,
the sand.

Speaker 1 (02:11:09):
But there's ground and the moon and Mars, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:11:13):
If you do get there.
I'm not saying it won't, butyou know, I'm just I'm not very
incentivized to want to becomean astronaut for now.
Yes, let it be said.
For now I want to build systemsthat go to Mars.
One day I want to build systemsthat go to mass.
But you remember One day, Ifeel like I'd want to let the
first iteration of guys go tomass.

(02:11:33):
How's that?

Speaker 4 (02:11:34):
going.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
Just you know you don't want to be the test
subject.
I can't.

Speaker 3 (02:11:40):
I'm a baby girl, I'm children.
I will die.

Speaker 1 (02:11:47):
We're not taking you to mass.
But one thing I've seen withElon is that for sure people, he
is going to mass.
You know when he talked aboutlanding back the space back, I
think in before 2010, I can't besure when everyone thought he's
mad.
I know NASA actually was almost.
The government was suing himfor even thinking.
But look at it right now, whenhe said it will change the way

(02:12:12):
people access the internetpeople thought he's joking.

Speaker 4 (02:12:14):
He has he talked about changing social media,
people thought that's anotherjoke.

Speaker 1 (02:12:21):
Twitter.
He changed Twitter, he did.
Okay, it's debatable, but youcan see a lot of things and
that's a drive that I feel likemost Africans have.
Elon is African, let no onetell you otherwise, if he's not,
maybe he has drank Africanwater, I hear.
By the way, there is power inwater there is power in the
water.
There is power in the water,someone who is more

(02:12:42):
knowledgeable than I am not fromschool, though they told me
actually people speak the waythey speak because of the water
they drink.
Are you serious?
Yeah, To some extent.
By the way, you see how you'rethinking about it for a minute.

Speaker 3 (02:12:59):
Let me ask.
So then, if I go take water inKisii or in Mombasa, I'll speak
different.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
Not immediately, but over time.
You have never noticed.
If you go to, it's debatablethough, so don't discuss it.
But have you ever noticed whenyou go to Mombasa, for some
reason your accent changes.

Speaker 3 (02:13:22):
I think it's actually ingrained in us for your accent
to change Ever had someone comeback from India with an.
Indian accent To some extent.
To some extent, yeah, to thehuge extent that people do go to
.

Speaker 1 (02:13:35):
Mombasa for two days and come back with an accent.
It can be debated this wayDon't look at the underlying
factors.

Speaker 4 (02:13:39):
You know, I want to speak like Goste Look at it this
way.

Speaker 1 (02:13:47):
Already you have the accent that you acquired over
time right so of course you'renot expecting the next day ah
these are Muswaili, or these areUS or these are you know, an
English, whatever, but look eventhe way, even even here in
Kenya, how our dialect you canhave a Kali who speaks a little
bit different you can have a.
Kikuyu who speaks a little bitdifferent.
You can have a Kikuyu whospeaks a bit kidogo, but when

(02:14:08):
you see this, they're divided bythe rivers, the way the the
rivers flows.
Just think about for a minute.
You know, at first I was likeah, these stories are java.

Speaker 3 (02:14:17):
I see that, I see that.

Speaker 1 (02:14:18):
But it's just, it's just out there.
Just think about it.
By the way, it made a lot ofsense To some extent.

Speaker 3 (02:14:29):
It does, but I'm not quite sure if it's the water,
though but it does.

Speaker 1 (02:14:32):
Yeah, it's the water.
As I said, it's the water.

Speaker 3 (02:14:35):
For instance, I'm Kikuyu right.

Speaker 1 (02:14:38):
I'm not a Kikuyu, but yeah, okay, I'm a Bantu.

Speaker 3 (02:14:43):
I'll give you an example of Kikuyu.
You'll hear someone speak witha Nyeri accent and you'll be
like that's a Nyeri person.
And then in Kambu and Murang,especially amongst themselves,
you're able to hear the nuances.
You're able to hear the nuances.

Speaker 1 (02:14:56):
And most of those regions are separated by rivers.

Speaker 3 (02:14:59):
That's what I'm saying.
It makes sense.
It makes sense, but it's justthe region.
You look at people a little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:15:07):
No, I mean, someone can say people interact even in
those regions, but it doesn'tchange how they speak they speak
sure yeah, of course, as I saidit's debatable.
Sylvia is not buying it, she isnot buying it and the reason
why even I gave it a thought isbecause there's this research,
research that we do over timeand it tells us this is the way,
and when you investigatefurther you find oh, by the way,

(02:15:27):
this is the way, so even thisone is just something I'm
throwing out there for Africansespecially because, you see,
even for us, we don't even payattention to our dialect.

Speaker 4 (02:15:36):
Have you ever realized?

Speaker 1 (02:15:37):
that, like we speak, the way we speak, so what?
But we are trying to learn theIndian accent, the English
accent, the US accent, theJapanese accent, and for them,
actually, they have gone aheadto document all these dialects
and variations.
You know like, even when you goto Chinese they have people
think just Chinese is Chinese.

Speaker 4 (02:15:58):
There are several variations Mandarin I don't know
what.

Speaker 1 (02:16:01):
And there's the standardization of these to make
sense.
And this way, now this becomeseven more interesting.
I don't know which app I'musing from China and I changed
it to Chinese.
Wait what?

Speaker 3 (02:16:18):
It's a Chinese-based app that was in English.

Speaker 1 (02:16:19):
Yes, Amongst the languages I said why can't I
select Chinese?
Oh, wow, Okay, I was trying toenable something here and I read
somewhere.
If you change it to Chinese,automatically you'll find this
feature.

Speaker 3 (02:16:30):
How is that coming for you?
How is that coming along?

Speaker 1 (02:16:33):
It's a good story.
Now, changing back, I wasalmost learning Mandarin and I
realized some of these thingsI'm looking for.
They're not written the same,but for someone who doesn't know
, it looks the same and also,when I thought about it, about
how you pronounce English.
We don't even pay so muchattention to that, even when

(02:16:55):
you're learning English.
It's not even a subject that wesit down and learn but maybe
the CBC is teaching that.
So I realized something can bewritten differently, to be
pronounced differently, andthat's what actually helped me,
because I was looking forsomething specific, whereas
different, and I was able tochange back to English Because I

(02:17:16):
thought, okay, this setting iswritten this way, language is
written this way, and then yougo to this and then now you can
select, because while underlanguages, you're able to see
English or Spanish or whatever.
But it was a very good night.
It was at night, actually, it'sgood that you break things at
night if you're a scientist.

Speaker 3 (02:17:38):
Heard it from him.

Speaker 1 (02:17:39):
Yeah.
So I don't know why he sharedall that, but the languages to
some extent goes to that extent.
Why do you go to the languages,but anyway?
So, besides the proportion,which you're not interested in
deeply, but also it comes downto computing, right?

Speaker 3 (02:17:58):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:18:00):
So you want to focus on software?
Yes, we're talking about marginof error.
Yes, yes, yes, we're talkingabout margin of error.
So this is not just anothersoftware you write.
You have to write it the rightway.
So how has that been for you?

Speaker 3 (02:18:16):
I think the best thing for us especially, is how
iterative engineering is, youknow.
So, before we launch, there's awhole task line and a whole
workload and a whole processthat you need to have done and
it's a lot of tests.
I'm pretty sure, silver, youhad friends who are always
talking about I'm going for atest, I'm going for a test.

(02:18:38):
I'm going for a test.
You're not going to actuallylaunch the rocket, but you're
just going to check is where Iam better than where I was
yesterday?
Is my code working better thanhow it was yesterday?
Is my body better than how itwas yesterday?
Is my propulsion system betterthan how it was yesterday?
So it's very iterative and thatprovides a very good wiggle room

(02:19:02):
for correcting our failures andlearning as we go.
So, tomorrow, the kind ofproblems we experience today and
other problems we'll experiencetomorrow, right, and
documenting it as we go.
So you'll find that theproblems that the people who are
in Nakuja we call the batchesN1, n2, n3.

(02:19:23):
So the people who had theissues that the N1 team faced,
people who had the issues thatthe N1 team faced, it's not the
issues that N2 team faces,because we're documenting it as
we go and we're also sayinghere's why I failed, so don't do
this, so don't do this, Don'tfollow this, follow this other
way, right.
And now N3 comes along and wedocument this and we say this is
what we've been able to do,this is what we're doing, this

(02:19:45):
is what we have failed at, sohelp us.
But also, at the same time, forN4, don't do the same thing.
So it's very iterative and veryback and forth.
So, ideally, by the time you'regoing for a launch, you're

(02:20:08):
almost certain that your marginof error has reduced
significantly.
But also, you can't take awaythe fact that whatever can go
wrong will go wrong.
But yeah, we try to reduce thenumber of wrongs.

Speaker 1 (02:20:14):
Murphy's law.

Speaker 3 (02:20:15):
Yes, Murphy's law for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:20:16):
Okay, so, given this issue, which language do you
guys use?

Speaker 3 (02:20:24):
Mostly C C++ Python.

Speaker 1 (02:20:29):
You guys use Python.

Speaker 3 (02:20:30):
MicroPython from time to time.

Speaker 1 (02:20:33):
There's a reason why I'm laughing.

Speaker 3 (02:20:35):
Why?
Why are you laughing?

Speaker 1 (02:20:36):
Python is crazy, especially at scale.

Speaker 4 (02:20:39):
In terms of error.

Speaker 1 (02:20:40):
actually, and that's what's good with data, because
the data allows you to do a lotof crazy stuff with errors.

Speaker 2 (02:20:45):
And still works.

Speaker 1 (02:20:46):
Because that's what's good with data, because the
data allows you to do a lot ofcrazy stuff with errors and
still works, because that'sessentially what you're
measuring in data is the marginof error, the margin of error,
so you're expecting it.
But it's fascinating you guysuse C and C++ because the way C
is designed, it's either 0 or 1,which makes it really good C++.
Why C++?

(02:21:07):
Why C++?

Speaker 3 (02:21:08):
though, again, most of it, you'll realize, is you
build for the hardware you aregoing to be using.
So you'll find that thehardware you're using is
compatible with probably C orC++ so then it becomes easier
then to build up of that.

Speaker 1 (02:21:22):
Yeah, and there's a huge opportunity in rocket
science.

Speaker 4 (02:21:27):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (02:21:28):
I was checking.

Speaker 4 (02:21:28):
Starlink the other day.

Speaker 1 (02:21:32):
Right, it's just that they're hiring in the US.
I wish they were hiring in.

Speaker 3 (02:21:38):
Africa?
No, that one.

Speaker 1 (02:21:40):
Elon was very straightforward.
You can't do remote.

Speaker 4 (02:21:43):
He's the first guy who said people should get back
to the office or get another joband it's good to be
straightforward, because how doyou develop a rocket in your
house?

Speaker 1 (02:21:52):
or build a software and then send, and if it there
is error.
This is not where you just sayyou know what next week's sprint
will fix.

Speaker 3 (02:21:59):
The first, and I think it's because there's a lot
of like and even if you watchsome of the ninis, some of the
launches, it's usually now theyhave learned the art of building
first.
Before it used to take timebecause they used to keep on
failing and have to go back tothe drawing board.
And it becomes very difficultto do that when you're doing it

(02:22:21):
remotely, because they'll sendyou a whole rocket remotely,
because they'll send you a wholerocket.

Speaker 1 (02:22:26):
Musk himself used to spend hours and hours in the
garage, not even in the officein the garage, especially with
Tesla Now imagine rockets.
So it was very clear thatespecially it started with his
executives and Atlassian, whichis work from whatever.
But of course I see where it'scoming from, because everything

(02:22:49):
starts from the leadership.
I'm not saying actually workingremotely is totally bad, but
there are some things actually,if you really want true results
and get them efficiently, youhave to be physically there, not
the office.

Speaker 2 (02:23:04):
Physically outside, you see, when you see the office
Physically outside, for, yeah,outside you see when you see the
office, there's this analogyeah, like office desk no, no
City desk.

Speaker 1 (02:23:13):
Like styling.
Most of their offices areworkshops.

Speaker 4 (02:23:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:23:17):
That's exactly it.

Speaker 1 (02:23:18):
Workshop is your office and something about you?

Speaker 4 (02:23:21):
I don't know if you have checked this.

Speaker 1 (02:23:23):
He has tried to roboticize everything.
When you say robot, they canwork 24 hours seven days a week,
365 days, and they're reliableas long as your code really
works, programmed it well, youknow yeah.
But of course he realized thatis not sustainable.
He went to.

Speaker 4 (02:23:41):
China and.

Speaker 1 (02:23:41):
Vietnam to open.
Yeah, maybe we should talk moreabout Elon next time.

Speaker 3 (02:23:44):
You should, I think I'd really like the way he looks
.
He's very radical in histhoughts but smart exactly
stretches your fabric ofthoughts what's the worst?

Speaker 1 (02:23:57):
do you think marijuana contributes to that?

Speaker 4 (02:24:01):
oh, you know that you come from Jamaica.

Speaker 3 (02:24:02):
I know that I come from Jiqua, not Jujua.

Speaker 2 (02:24:08):
We'll have it on record.

Speaker 3 (02:24:10):
You have it on record .
I don't know, I don't know.
Again, I like to say if I don'thave a frame of reference, then
I can't answer a question.
I don't have a frame ofreference.

Speaker 1 (02:24:21):
It's because there is also this controversy.

Speaker 3 (02:24:26):
And it's here.

Speaker 1 (02:24:28):
Why the Jujube engineers are really good is
because of the availability ofis it cannabis Sativa?

Speaker 3 (02:24:35):
Sativa Marijuana is cannabis sativa.

Speaker 4 (02:24:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24:41):
The availability, the quality and the affordability.

Speaker 4 (02:24:45):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (02:24:46):
That's why it's called Jamaica.
And of course, even Elon has,like he does, smoke live, it's
easy, like for him it's likeokay, you know, don't do it, but
you know if you do it, it's notall bad, but don't do it yeah,
he has done that several timesand he has really given some
crazy points when he does that?

(02:25:06):
So I'm like okay, but also Iwould not advise anyone to use
any kind of drug for that matter, especially if you're not sure
how to work for you.
But also I'm changing that abit because we have seen it
getting legalized and not.
You know when you're growing up, if you smoke this thing you'll
go mad.
But I've not seen the whole USgo mad, but it's the UK?

Speaker 3 (02:25:29):
I don't think the United.
States is the best framework.

Speaker 1 (02:25:33):
It's not the best standard, but it has always been
legal in Netherlands.

Speaker 3 (02:25:38):
It has, yeah For sure .

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
Yeah, that's the first country I traveled to and
you know those, they call coffeeshops.
You go and buy your thing, youknow those they call coffee
shops.
You go and buy your thing, youknow either edible or otherwise
you have some good time.
Like one of the biggesttourists is the people who come
over on the weekend just to youknow have a good time.
It's one of the countries wherethey have legalized that among

(02:26:04):
us, you know the Europe members.
So when you think about it, it'slike should I?
By the way, guys, don't use itif you don't have to.
You're good the way you are,you know.
But you know someone elsebrought another debate around
that you know tea is also a drug.

Speaker 3 (02:26:22):
For sure, coffee is a drug 100%, depending on how you
look at it.

Speaker 1 (02:26:26):
Yeah, so anything overused, of course it will
cause problems, including ugaliand skuma wiki.
That is relative, yeah, soparting shot, june, let's start,
even with Sylvia.
Parting shot for our audience.

Speaker 2 (02:26:45):
So parting shot I love this new generation.
Let's start even.
We're parting shots for ouraudience.
So parting shots.
I love this new generation inthe tech space.
Yeah, I love the steps and thestrides and the mindset change
that is coming about, which isvery evident even in your story,
how you're seeing people dothings.
If I was to tell my parentsthat you know, in my school
we're building rockets, they'dbe confused.

(02:27:07):
You're not in jquart.
You know what's going on andthis is the change that we love
to see.
I have friends, many friends,who've been in nakujan, so I've
seen you guys really put in thework and do the tests in the
field and then fail and recordand that's the progress.
So love to see it.
Yeah, your journey is veryinteresting and I'm sure someone

(02:27:28):
sitting somewhere is thinkingabout how do I go about this?
I'm here.
Is there someone who's gonethrough this journey and
hopefully that person will getto see it.
And realize that they can do alot.

Speaker 1 (02:27:40):
So I love to see it.

Speaker 2 (02:27:41):
Parting shots.
What is my main takeaway?
I love the mindset shift, so Iwill.

Speaker 3 (02:27:48):
I will take that with me all right, I'm supposed to
go yes, please okay, partingshot.
Um, let me start with how,before even set a parting shot,
it's probably going to be astory, okay, and uh, motivation
to all of us.
Okay, I met mk throughcommunity and, um, it was

(02:28:13):
actually one of my biggestcommunities that I have joined,
um, besides university, and thenthat also led me into other
communities.
And if there's anything that Iwill underscore is build in
public, build in public, learnin public.
Don't be afraid to fail, don'tbe afraid to look like a failure

(02:28:38):
, because I think those are twodifferent things.
Don't be, don't feel as thoughyou can't trust someone else
with your dream or your visions,or your people are out,
especially in this tech space.
And what you're saying aboutmindsets is it's very important,
because people were not lookingat things differently.

(02:28:59):
Now looking at life differentlyand realizing we don't have to
build in a silo.
I don't have to build in avacuum.
I don't have to learn in avacuum.
I don't have to experience lifea silo.
I don't have to build in avacuum.
I don't have to learn in avacuum.
I don't have to experience lifein a vacuum.
Talk about it, right.
Talk about the projects you'reworking on.
It might seem silly to you, butit really isn't.
It's a starting point tosomething else.
Right, talk about the kind offailures you're going through,

(02:29:21):
because it's out of that thatsomeone else comes and shows you
the way.
Right?
If, for instance, let's evenassume you're all programmers,
right, let's imagine we didn'thave documentation, because
that's also one good example ofcommunity.
Let's just imagine we didn'thave documentation or didn't
have Stack Overflow.
Yeah, think about that one, youknow.

(02:29:43):
So don't be afraid to talk aboutthe kind of problems you're
experiencing, because it pavesway for providing answers.
And if you have an answer,don't sit with it.
Sure, write papers, writearticles, speak in public, you
know.
Go to conference talks, writebooks, if you may, because the
only way we're able to tell ourstories is if we actually let

(02:30:06):
them out.
The only way you're able tohelp someone stories is if we
actually let them out.
The only way you're able tohelp someone is if you actually
provide that helping hand.
So, on the one hand, don't beafraid to ask.
On the other hand, also don'tbe afraid to provide answers.
So, yeah, this has been aninteresting one.

Speaker 1 (02:30:18):
I really liked it Awesome, thank you.
By the way, talking aboutsharing, you'll be presenting at
Africa's Talking Summit 2023.

Speaker 3 (02:30:25):
I did not think you saw that.

Speaker 4 (02:30:27):
Yes, I will yeah, yeah, and I like when people
give me that yeah, like ah, okay, it's kind of fascinating
myself.

Speaker 1 (02:30:43):
I'm the guy who yeah, who you not think I normally
tell people don't follow me,kind of fascinating myself.
Yeah, yeah, I'm the guy who,yeah, who, who, who you not
think I normally tell peopledon't follow me, I'm lost.

Speaker 3 (02:30:51):
But you act like the underdog.
I'm an underdog.
Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:30:57):
So I'll give a, an African proverb Okay, from
Ethiopia, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:31:03):
And.

Speaker 1 (02:31:03):
I learned this from and I have to give credit from
Spice FM in the morning, fromthe city.
The other one is the city andwho else?
You don't listen to this so oneof the radios actually that is
changing the conversation it is.
And, by the way, if they arelistening to me, please bring
all politicians.

Speaker 4 (02:31:23):
We want to hear from innovators you know everyone,
and that bring our politicians.
We want to hear from innovators.
You know everyone.
That's one thing I like youlisten to it right and it's some
sober sober conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:31:31):
But they give proverbs and I thought, why not?
Proverbs are good, they presentyou as a wise person.

Speaker 4 (02:31:38):
No no, they give wisdom.

Speaker 1 (02:31:40):
So here is a proverb from Ethiopia.
It says what is inflated toomuch will burst into fragments,
and I feel like it relates towhat we are talking about
rockets.
And it says this this is theexplanation, but maybe in future
you should be asking our guestslike how these guys?
You know that's what they do.
They give up like what do youthink they are probably?

(02:32:00):
So then they give them in, butfor me I'll be easy.
So, one who thinks very highlyof oneself is said to have a big
head You've never heard of that.
If you let your ego grow andyou boost all the time,
eventually you'll not be able tolive up to it.
Ego will shatter.
In a sense, the same is truefor substances as a substance

(02:32:23):
eats up or we cook it.
Substances as a substance eatsup or we cook it, the particles
vibrate faster and expand If theparticles are contained they
will exert more and morepressure.

Speaker 4 (02:32:37):
Rocket scientists.

Speaker 1 (02:32:40):
On the substance containing them, the container
may eventually burst.
That's a very good proverb.
When I think about it, I feellike a rocket scientist, but
anyway.

Speaker 3 (02:32:52):
Chemical engineer in the house.

Speaker 1 (02:32:54):
He's in the house, so my parting shot will be very
easy.
I normally tell this to myself.
With 1 billion people acrossAfrica, when you think about
that, 70% of those which isaround and actually it's more

(02:33:14):
actually right now is more than800,000, 800 million people.
Youth which is 35 and below.
Even younger because they theycall it what the mean age is 35
and below.
Even younger because they theycall it what the mean age is
around 19 now.
It shows two things.
One it's either we perish allof us or we make it all of us.

(02:33:37):
And I believe in making all ofus, making it all of us, because
for me it's a matter of if youhave an opportunity, you have a
skill, why not share that skill?
It's better off when everyonehas access to that as opposed to
just one.
Like you should have so manypoint of failures as opposed to
one, and I think everyengineering, any engineering you

(02:33:59):
go to, that's one thing thatyou're taught to create.

Speaker 3 (02:34:03):
Many points of failures.

Speaker 1 (02:34:04):
So that by the time the last point of failure is
failing the first one is fixed.
So, anyone in Africa, don't giveup, don't feel like.
You know.
I was born in Karamonjong,karamoja, and you know this is
it.
There's so much out there andit doesn't matter where you are

(02:34:27):
across the African continent.
It's a matter of you havingthat self-drive, because you
have seen the most unlikelyengineers from northern Nigeria,
where there's been Boko Haramfor the longest, and they are
spreading this thing acrossNigeria.
We have seen the most bestengineers come from Egypt, which

(02:34:48):
actually relies on Nile for thelongest, and they are spreading
this thing across Nigeria.
We have seen the most bestengineer come from Egypt, which
actually relies on Nile andamong many other things.
So it can be done, it should bedone and we will do it.
We will do it for sure, andthank you so much, june, for
honoring our show.

Speaker 3 (02:35:00):
Thank you for inviting me.
It was fun.

Speaker 1 (02:35:02):
It was really nice inviting me to come to Street
Night and for our listeners,this is where we come to an end.
Don't forget to subscribe likecomment and if you like June to
be our guest again, please letus know.
June is just starting this bythe way guys.

Speaker 3 (02:35:18):
Yeah, for sure no voting.

Speaker 1 (02:35:22):
Making it as a joke making it as a joke, but ideally
we just host movers and shakersguys who are doing big things
around tech ecosystem acrossAfrica, telling their stories
the way they are, keeping itreal and, of course, learning
from each other.
I hope you have enjoyed.
Until next time, see you so so.

(02:36:04):
Thank you.

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