#40 - Robert Tumaini - Impact Masters Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
It's me once again, michaelKemadi or MK, if you want.
You can call me Kemadi or MK,if you want.
I'm your host, africa's TalkingPodcast, known as Retold and

(00:39):
Impact Masters Podcast, bringingyou movers and shakers in tech.
And today we're still in Kigali, rwanda, a country of a
thousand hills and many more.
Digital economy, progressivemindsets, focus on youth, among
as many other than leadership ofthis country is doing.
And today we're justhighlighting about tech

(01:04):
ecosystem here in relation toAfrica's stocking.
Anytime you think about Rwanda,do you think about Arsenal, or
what comes into your mind?
Is it cleanliness, is it tidystreets, security, and there is

(01:27):
much more that is coming acrossthe country.
So look out for Kigali, rwanda.
There's a new airport coming up, I see, and as I was walking
around, I saw some stadia beingcreated or built someplace.
I don't know Rimera or something.
Yeah, yeah, I'm frustratedsomething.
Yeah, yeah, I'm frustrated bycoming up.

(01:48):
Yeah, amongst many other thingsthat are happening in Kigali,

(02:12):
one of them is that the peopleare really good people.
Don't take my word for it.
Just make a point of visitingKigali, rwanda, once in a while
and see what is happening,because it's an exemplary
country to be in Africa.
So if you have not subscribedto our channel, please do so.

(02:37):
This podcast is available in allpodcast channels across the
world iTunes, spotify, googlePodcasts and your favorite
podcasts and today we areblessed to have one man, the man
himself, robert Tumaini.
Robert is fond of using hisskills like operations

(03:02):
management, data analysis,business development and
research to run organizationsand businesses' activity into
measurable successes.
A resource and action-orientedall-driven environmental doctor.
Continuous skills and knowledgebuilder.
Continuous skills and knowledgebuilder, always learning

(03:23):
execution.
International business learner,data analyzer, project manager,
business strategies and growthhacker.
An alumni of african leadershipuniversity.
Actually, this is where we areif you're watching our video.

(03:44):
This is africa leadershipuniversity, located at
Innovation Economic Zone right,yes, exactly.
So we're surrounded byindustries here, so you're
learning by doing, once in awhile, exactly.
So how are you, robert?
I'm more than fine, beyond fine.
Yeah, you look fine man.
How is it going?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
The introduction was about to make me faint.
I thought I'm sitting besidesome other robot or something.
I'm fine.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
So, Robert, here we just tell the African stories,
especially guys who are in techand what they are doing around
Africa.
Right, and what drives thisconversation is because our
story has not been told for sometime.
If it's told, it's not told theright way.
So we always start by you know,just knowing who you are, Not

(04:37):
what I've just read.
What I've just read is just foryou know, looks more you know,
but it doesn't represent who isRobert.
So, Robert, where did you start?

Speaker 1 (04:46):
uh, so so, but I can talk, I can, I can start, you
know, um talking about probablymy professional journey ah, you
will have all the time to talkabout it.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Where did you start?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
where did I start?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
yeah, so as as an individual, as a person as a
person beyond the professionalright, right, right, so you're
really getting to know mebasically, yeah, so uh.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
well, I'm robert to my knee and, uh, my parents gave
about to be here in the middleof the town in kigali, oh, in a
place called muhima.
It's a, it's a nine anddistrict called nyanrujenje, and
uh, but I it's in a districtcalled Nyarujenge, but I grew up
in a place called Majelajere.
It's the rural part of Kigali,the rural part of the district.

(05:33):
And yeah, my childhood was fun.
I was what you could call aquiet kid, but that gave me time
to observe things and get tostart early to get you know with
what you'd call academia early.

(05:53):
But yeah, I enjoyed my lifestyleand from there I went to school
like any regular kid.
Yes, yes and yeah, I'm heretoday.
I'm here today.
I've gone to schools.
Now I'm with the best in thegame.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Robert, this is not your problem alone.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
And.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I've seen it with so many guests that have all stayed
in that city.
One of the things that I seethem do is just brush off.
But I'm a believer that anyperson you meet at a later stage
in life or at any point in life, they are shaped by experiences
of growing up that's the mostimportant thing also something

(06:34):
else.
I've realized that so manypeople actually learn from the
journey, not the destination.
And given these stories thatyou're telling is to ensure that
we show it's possible, it'sdoable, it, it can be done, and
you're doing it, and not fromthe motivational side of things,
it's just from the point ofreality.
That's why we tell it raw,right, unscripted raw.

(06:56):
So, if you don't mind, you cantell me where you go to school.
How was that like?

Speaker 1 (07:04):
What was?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
your experience as a robot.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Right.
So usually I would say thetraits I have as a human being
at the moment.
I obtained these ones at a veryearly age, when I was still
young.
I was living with my mother inthe area I just mentioned
earlier called Majerajiri, whichis the rural area, the rural

(07:31):
part of the Nyerujanje district.
It's not far away from hereright.
No, no, it's about 13 or 14miles away, like a 14 minute
drive from here, it was a funexperience, I would say, because
you know, to me, I I knew whatI liked at a very young age,

(07:51):
which might be the correctthings that I liked, or might
not, you'd say, you know,depending on a personal
preference.
But you know, growing up I was akid that loved, for example,
reading.
So I used to interact withother kids.
I would tell them stories thatI've gotten from books, small
books that my mum would buy forme on her way back to home from

(08:16):
job, and you know that shaped mylove of being in the know,
basically, you know, loving toknow what's going on, which is
where the love of tech sort ofbuilt up, because you know, from
reading a lot, you startpicking interest.
You know in differentparticular aspects of the

(08:41):
reading that you enjoy the most.
So from there, you know, I keptuh, enticing myself.
So at what age did you start,uh, reading?
I would say so.
So this is funny uh story thatmy mom usually tells people, but
I'm not sure if it's reallytrue, but you know so she
usually says that I started uhwriting people's uh the people

(09:05):
that were living in ourhousehold and their names.
I started spelling them as earlyas I was four, four years old.
Yeah.
So I'm not sure if that'sreally correct, but you know,
let's go with that.
But from there, what I rememberabout myself accurately is that
I used to like to experimentwith things, right.

(09:26):
So, for example, if I hearsomething new that I don't know,
yeah, I would.
I would ask a lot of questions,maybe too many questions, just
to explore yeah and you know,find out more, yeah, and from
there, that's how I built upsome passion, and, uh, you know
about different things, thoughyeah, so.
I love music yeah why?
because I used to you, I used touse it as a tool to to sort of

(09:49):
give myself more information.
Okay, and you know other peoplemight have different media to
acquire new information to theirlives.
Yeah, and for me I I loved, youknow, content.
Content Like reading books,like I mentioned, and movies.

(10:10):
Yeah, and the funny thing is,as young as I was, I wasn't
really understanding what wasgoing on in the stories, you
know, because I was too young toconnect to understand what was
really going on.
But basically, yes, I usedthose tools to sort of connect

(10:32):
to the real world, but of coursethey were too sort of broad for
me at my age, but I could picka few things.
So from there, people used tojoke with me like my aunt hey,
robert, you know too much.
Please take it bit by bit.
You don't need to know thatRussia is fighting with
Afghanistan or something youknow.

(10:53):
Please, you are seven, takethings slowly and take small
bits that you can be able tohandle From there.
So, yeah, but did you listen?
Of course not, but you knowthey didn't like it.
But you know, later it showedits own benefits you know, being

(11:14):
able to, to love knowing what'sgoing on and growing interest
in tech, because those are thebooks I started reading when I
when I went to high school.
It's the same area, actually.
Basically, I just graduatedfrom primary school.
I moved across the road to theschool that was there.

(11:38):
I would actually look at itthrough the window and I was
like, hey, so the other kids are, you know, being driven to
other districts and I'm hereyeah yeah, just just, you know,
you graduate from here and you,you, you just cross the road to
the other school, across the,across the road, you know.
On the other side I'm like, hey,this is, this is unique, yeah,

(11:58):
but yeah, I enjoyed it fromthere as well.
I started picking some newinformation yeah but I'll tell
you the first time I sat in a ina high school class oh you, you
, you went in primary school thesame same place.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes, basically, uh, from home to the primary school
yes, so and basically it's justin the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yes, it was in the neighborhood.
My home it was in theneighborhood.
My home, my primary school andmy high school was in the same
neighborhood, not five miles ofradius, basically.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yes, and so there's something I wanted to ask about
what was like the day-to-dayactivities in that area, or is
it still?
The same daily activities today.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
You mean for me as Robert, or maybe for the regular
community?

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, because I know most people do farming around
Rwanda, right?

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
People do tea farming .

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, true.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
So what was it like in that?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
so the tea farming, so that's cash crops that's not
for everyone people are makingmillions from that, but, yes, so
, so farming is really, you know, is what you know built randa,
yeah, what it is, of course,plus other activities you know
that you've been able to read orhear about, like tourism and

(13:28):
other things.
But yes, we need farming ofcourse.
Yeah, you know, we are very,you know, the average family
basically in randa.
They do that and we were notdifferent.
And from there, but in the areawhere I was, there was a
mixture of, uh, you know, smalltrade, like you know you'd have
like a shop was a mixture of youknow, small trade like you know
you'd have like a shop, like asmall restaurant, you know, with

(13:48):
affordable food, meals that youknow the average individual can
afford, and also like a smallpop-up shop in the neighborhood
you'd sell sugar, flour, thingslike those you know, just to
make ends meet and stuff likethat.
But we're happy okay it was,that it was a community, randa.
You know I'm sure you've beenable to experience around, but

(14:09):
you know family and community issomething that is very, very
promoted and we make sure thatwe take care of that.
I've been able to observe thatfrom my anguish, yes, but so if
I talk about the dailyactivities basically, or what
the daily routines were, yeah,usually as kids you know the
kids, me and the other fellowkids that you know we were

(14:33):
growing together with usuallyall we did was go to school.
After that we'd come back toour homes and we help out with
the home, errands and otherhouse activities, basically
cooking, if you are old enoughto be able to handle that,
washing your uniform you know,making sure you know these

(14:53):
things that as early as you canbe.
Basically the regular kidsthings, but sometimes you'd have
a hobby, like maybe playingfootball with your friends,
riding a bike.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know you sound like you're more in town than in
the village no, it was actually.
Good that I know about theAfrican village.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, so the village wasn't like too much of a
village, if you will.
But you know it was a mixturebecause there were people
migrating from the middle of thecity, from the middle of Kigali
, to like other collective areasthere you know, where they
would like build similar housesin the lines here we call them
umudugudu.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
There are people in sort of you know, collected area
and they are living next doorto each other so that you know
different infrastructure andother means could reach them
easily please talk more aboutthat because, um, if you come to
kigali, even where I am rightnow, you can see even the way
structures are built are moreconcentrated in in specific

(16:00):
places.
Yes, is that like the cultureway of?

Speaker 1 (16:03):
building.
You would say it's more of aculture and also intentional
promotion, because in Rwanda wehave since a few years back.
We had to use what we had andthe only way to achieve that was
to join our hands and to matchour efforts.

(16:23):
And people understood thisreally quickly.
And one of the ways to sort ofget the neighbourhoods developed
as quickly as we can, but alsoefficiently, not rushing things
too quickly, was to be next toeach other.
There are benefits to that.
Kaka, you know people.
If you're near each other, youcan be able.
If you're living besides eachother, you can be near, you know
each other, you can be able,you feel besides if you living

(16:46):
besides each other you can beable to facilitate each other
different.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
If you run out of salt, you can your neighbor's
door maybe your cooking oil isdone and maybe you forgot to go
to shopping, or you know youdon't have the means to go to
shopping.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, you'd be like and borrow it'd be like a robot
you know my matchbox is not, youknow it's, it's it's not
handling my work please let meuse something like that, so we
have this thing we usually joke,you know, in kenya that hey,
you know which means likeusually we learn we lend to each
other, basically learn to sortto each other, basically Say

(17:24):
that again, which is likesharing salt, which is just like
an implication for anothermeaning, which is like we are
here for each other.
You won't be left out and drywith me here.
I got you Things like thatbasically.
It was a very good experience tobe in as a kid because it

(17:48):
formed the attitudes that youwould grow up with and it would
shape you as a human being thatwe are.
We are at the moment and we wegrew up to be decent individuals
, if you will yeah, you know sobecause we had role models
around us our families, families, our parents, our elder
brothers and sisters.
You know things like that.
I would say it was the averageAfrican kid childhood.

(18:14):
Nothing too special, but italways depended on your choices
of life.
Of course, sometimes you dothings that are not very
welcomed yeah, so what did youdo?
Hey kaka.
So as a kid you could, youcould do things, but for me I
didn't do things it's all right.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
What is that?
One thing hey, okay, now thatyou're talking about it that you
remember vividly that god youare beating I don't know, you
got a beating when you'regrowing up hey I'm an african,
so discipline is a must.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yes, yes, ruthlessly I won't say ruthlessly, because
you know it's what we call toughlove, you know so I grew up
with with a single mother.
I lost my dad when I was veryyoung.
Yeah, you know, so young that Idon't even remember.
You know most of the things,most of the experiences I had

(19:11):
with him yeah so I was therewith my mom so and my mom, you
know, wasn't affluent enough tobe just around there.
Yeah, she had to hustle tohustle around and she would move
around the country not to benear.
So I was at home usually with mygrandma, so usually, and the
grandmother I had is not the onethat usually hey, baby, you

(19:34):
know please, this food, please.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
What do you need?

Speaker 1 (19:37):
I know, she's like hey, please, you'll eat this
food after you've worked for it.
So yeah, we would go and fetchwater in small jerry cans and
from there we'd wash the dishes.
After that we'd prepare food tocook and you'd sweep the house.
So you learned to beresponsible at an early stage
Exactly.

(19:57):
Of course we were not starving,don't get me wrong.
But you know she made sure weknew what we were doing.
We knew what reality was asearly as it could be, but yeah,
so really nothing too extreme.
That I did.
That got me the beatings, justthe regular mistakes of kids.
You know going to school andcoming home late, you know too

(20:19):
much football and you know you'dthink, hey, I'm messy.
But you know you would think,hey, I'm messy, but you know,
really, not really but yeah, wewere enjoying life, kaka so, but
you know, also we had thesethings we could be.
So there's this small uhcircular, um, sort of uh, how do
I say this?
So they're sort of uhtransparent and they are small
and used to sort of use them tokick each other, like those

(20:44):
things, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
I can't recall the name, but yeah, even when, I was
growing up used to yeah used togive the.
I used to call them Galore inSwahili, galore, or Billy Goli
in like like.
What do you call it?
Like Lugayamta, like Lugayamta.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
So that sounds cool.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
I mean that's Swahili , meaning that it's a slang.
It's a slang, it's like anidiom to something else.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
You see from Golori we call them Bilgoli, bilgoli.
Or Banta.
You say that it sounds badass.
But you know, whatever, nopeople used to like badass.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
But you know, whatever People used to hit them
, we used to use our secondfinger from the right and it
could crack.
There are guys who are reallygood.
They could hit them from farand when they hit it, it just
cracks.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
So for us we had some times like you'd stand and
you'd bend your other shoulder,but you'd stand and you'd sort
your other shoulder, but you'dstand and you'd sort of bend
your thumb and the object wouldbe in the middle.
It's like giving it a kickright, yes, and you shoot it
with so much speed.

(21:56):
And if it kicks the other theywould say you've done what we
call danje, which is like dangerSomething really cool.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
I don't know what the logic was, danje, which is like
danger Something really cool.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
I don't know what the logic was in this naming, but
you know it was nice.
It was nice and we had fundoing this and we had what we
called dogoma.
Dogoma so that's where I wouldline them, like three or four,
and the players each playerwould line their own there and
the more you kick out of thatsmall, that's more rectangular

(22:26):
thing yeah, you'd keep them,which means you've you've gained
, yeah, another beer and youwould have the king of the crew
who had the most so to carryaround our socks and would stuff
all those gained, we would callthem.
We would call them inga, whichmeans a cow, but it's just a

(22:49):
member of those other objectsthat we had.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
So if someone like hit the other, I don't know what
to call them, but they're madeof glass.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yes, basically Sort of transparent with little
colours inside.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
So where we used to buy them is from these indians.
Uh, I think they used to importthem from some place in india
right and I.
I actually never knew how theywere made until a week ago, for
your information, hey, I saw theprocess and it's quite manual
and light, because you know whatthey do they break down.
So what they do?
They break down the brokenglasses, Just the normal bottles

(23:29):
, whatever.
And then they collect thoseglasses and pour them in a
furnace where it's burnt untilit's liquid, so that solution is
poured through a tunnel, asmall tunnel that shifts or
limits the flow.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Right, right, so where?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
it goes.
There is a mechanized limiterthat cuts certain amount of that
solution, as it goes down totwo big uh high on which of um
cylindrical kind of spiral kindof stuff right, so once it goes
there.
That's what now shapes it orinto a circular form circular,

(24:18):
perfect circle actually, right,uh, but in this solution, where
it's just pouring, that's whynow they had the color, so they
actually literally add the color.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
That's the most fascinating engineering process
because sometimes they wouldlike add like a very, a very
special, like a very particularshape.
And you see that it was tension.
It wasn't like something random, like they would do, like like
a chicken or something, yeah,like a face of someone.
So that's how they do it.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's more of an artistic and also engineering
process.
I have a video actually I canshare with you.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I saw this on tick tock actually beautiful and it
was.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
It was one of those moments I was like wow it
doesn't look like a fancyengineering process it was done
by indians.
I don't know if a chinese do itor other people do, but these
particular people were doing itand, what actually fascinated me
, the person who was pouring theglass into the furnace was a
lady.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Okay, I wouldn't have imagined that.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
To be honest with you , it was the same thing for me,
so I'll show you the video afterthe podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
So you're saying some of these things are still
favorable to favorable to kids.
Still this time as well, I meanyeah these are kids and um.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
I don't know if that video was recorded recently, but
what?
I what actually I learned fromthat process that if you're
really willing to do some ofthis stuff.
It doesn't matter your agendaand stuff.
That's the point exactly,exactly uh, it's just a matter
of can you show up for theposition?

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Right, we'll get to that later.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Right, Robert, you had a really nice childhood so
you transitioned to high school.
Did you perform well in primaryschool?
Hey Kaka.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
That's what I wanted to tell you a few minutes ago.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
The first day.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I sat in a high school class.
I would call it a uniqueexperience for me yeah, because
the first thing I saw when Ientered the class.
So so here's the thing.
I went to school, I was.
I was not in a boarding school,no, the school was boarding,
but for me I was a day a day, soI would go home after every,

(26:25):
after all the classes are done,so one day.
So we spent like a whole week,you know, doing discovery.
They don't onboarding us.
You know showing us what theteachers are doing, who they are
, to know their names and stufflike that yeah, then one day I
come back to school and theyhave started learning a few

(26:46):
things.
They are drawing things.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Were you late.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
No, I wasn't.
But you see, we used to havethese teachers.
They would give one of thesmartest kids in the class.
They would give them their bookof notes that you needed to
take.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
And they would write for others.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yes, they would write for others, the ones with the
most beautiful handwriting thatyou can see you talk, or yes?
Chalk it was.
You know they couldn't give itto me because my my, the letter
t, one of the teachers told mewas like a a guy who's who's
removing their heart.
I still remember that it wasthat much hey, kaka now see now.

(27:29):
I'm thanking God because youknow I'm using a laptop and
stuff.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Things are improving.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
There's no hustle if you give me a pen now, hey,
you'll be praying for me afterthis.
So yeah.
So I went there and the noteswere there, so we had to start
writing, but but the terms thefirst thing I saw.
So I went there and the noteswere there, so we had to start
writing, but the terms the firstthing I saw was the title of
the program, the title of thelesson, and it was chemistry.

(27:54):
If I tell you how I pronouncedit you'd faint, Kaka.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Did someone ask you to pronounce it?

Speaker 1 (28:08):
No, but I was trying because, you see, I grew up
trying to interact with thingsthat we engaged and to
understand things, and it alwaysbothered me when I didn't
understand what a word meant.
So let me tell you one examplewhen I was younger, just to
bring it back to the childhoodyeah, we had a small shop and we
had these, these sort of ayeast that we used to put in
either in donuts or these sogambeers, and it was called pakmaya

(28:32):
.
And in Rwanda we have what wecall ibihekane, which is usually
a combination of differentconsonants which pronounce a
certain tone or a certain note.
When you're saying things Like,for example, if you connect N
and S, it's called ants, likeyou'd pronounce it as, for

(28:56):
example, if you say insina.
So you see, we have I-N-S-I-N-A, so the combination of those
two consonants, without a vowelat the end.
So those are what we callIbihekane.
So I was sitting there lookingat this package of this yeast
and it had, you know.

(29:17):
So I was so young, I was likethree or four, I don't know.
You know, I was still veryyoung before you even started,
uh, primary school, yeah.
So, hey, listen, I was fumingout of my ears.
I was like so how do youpronounce back maya?
But it's p-a-k-m, who puts a kbefore an m.

(29:39):
So I was, I was fighting myselfafter like a week one.
I was fighting myself Afterlike a week of losing like five
kilograms.
I asked my mom, what is this?
She's like no, this is notKinyaranda.
From there I was relieved.
I was like, hey.
So you see, it bothered me to apoint that I had to ask you,

(30:00):
grow up, you start losinginterest in learning.
But you see, I want to give youan example.
You see, I grew up as a veryeager kid and I wanted to know
stuff.
So back to the day I was inhigh school, the first day when
I saw the title Chemistry itbothered me.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
How did you see it?

Speaker 1 (30:19):
It was my first time seeing such a world yeah, I
didn't know what chemistry orwhatever the word meant and I
couldn't even go past it to readwhatever was under it, but did
you pronounce it?
Yes, but the things I said.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
It looks like you never forgot that moment.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, usually we remember these things.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Kaka, what did you say, do you?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
really want to know.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, for sure, not even for me, because there's
someone who is where you areright now.
Right, right.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
So just to give you context before I tell you what,
because you're a friend.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
So we grew up learning in enough enough in a
francophone sister.
Yes, we used to have to useFrench to get all the programs
we're getting from, fromelementary school to primary
school until the end.
Then, when we got to highschool, we transitioned into
English, which was quite anactual transition, basically,

(31:28):
and so we were well sort of youknow, mixing these things in
here and they are making allthese mistakes and stuff, and
that's what I did.
So for me, I tried to pronounceit because I knew it was, you
know, because in, in, in.
French you'd call it shimmy.
I found out later so I knew howto recognize which was way in

(31:49):
French or in English, but stillthe French particles were still
in me, so I connected.
That was like shimmy streetsomething, because I had seen
the verb try before.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
But you see, it's good that you have even got the
courage to say that, and this ispertinent.
There are so many Africans andthere are a billion of us.
We feel bad when we do not talksomeone else's mother tongue
correctly, the right way, right,but have you ever listened to

(32:30):
them when they try to talk whatwe know as our mother tongue?
Now that you say it becauseit's really worse than what we
try.
The mistake we make looks likea child's play.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
It is bad yeah, too bad, so please from today yes
anything that was not yourmother tongue, I think your
mother tongue is right.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Please, you allow yourself to make mistakes and
perfect over time and there's nopressure.
That's not your mother tongueand you don't have to speak it.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
So this meme that really resonated with me was
like you don't owe anyoneenglish, by the way, so it
wasn't like suffered orsomething.
They just mentioned a randomworld just to to mess with
people's minds.
Like you don't owe anyoneenglish, so they they.
The world that ended.
The meme was so misspelled justto show that, guys, I'm free

(33:22):
from this english grammar stuff.
You know, I can just whatever.
I can just say whatever I wantand no one is going to hold me
accountable.
There's no penalty to this.
You can just say whatever,because if you hear those guys,
if they try to mimic or even tryto repeat what you just said in
our own mother tongues, it'sdifficult, it's a whole

(33:43):
different story.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yes, so please going forward, don't worry about those
things now you're in school howwas that experience for you
joining?
Uh, I don't know from one.
I don't know if you call themfrom one year or oh yeah, we
call them senior one.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Senior one up to six.
How?

Speaker 2 (34:01):
was that experience for you?
Did things improve?
Did you now start focusing?
Because I see also you also.
You have some background inentrepreneurship.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
What was that like?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Okay, so for me, I'm not like the others that say you
know, I started selling cookiesand donuts when I was in high
school.
No, I was what I could callfreely.
This is me calling myself this.
I was what I could call a dummy.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
There's this joke now that you mentioned back at home
, that motivational speakers sayI started a chicken business
with a feather Right, so you'renot that kind of a person.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
And feathers were spouting.
Chickens were spouting out offeathers.
I didn't do that.
That alone can tell you a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
So you're just saying you're just another normal kid
who was, you know, making allthe mistakes, trying to
understand things, but stillself-driven by curiosity.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yes, yes.
So the only things that I couldsay that I did that were close
to to being an entrepreneur oranything.
So from, you know, towards theend of my high school, my
primary school, to the earlyages of of high school yeah the
only thing I did was help my momin her shop oh, your mom,
mother shop yes, she had thesmall shop where I saw the

(35:24):
pac-man thing that I talkedabout and it was bothering me
you know, I had to.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Even what is it?

Speaker 1 (35:29):
yes, to turn it, so I can't face the the world it was
, it was messing up my mind soyeah.
So no, I didn't do anyentrepreneurship.
But, you know, as I joined highschool, I started, you know,
meeting other kids from otherplaces, because high schools
here they usually transfer youto other areas.
Yeah, when you are a boardingstudent, yeah.

(35:50):
So yeah, I start meeting otherkids who are doing sort of
similar things toentrepreneurship.
You're selling stuff, you knowtelling us during the, you know,
when we go to for holidays,please join me and we can take a
trip or something, you know,and they'll charge us some money
, you know, and they would say,for example, from because the
school was in Majelajere andwould come, some of them they

(36:12):
would come to for holidays andthey would they have, they would
have to come to Kigel becausethat's where their homes were.
And we have these things thathappen every year.
We call them expo, so they area show of expositions, and
different companies, differentorganizations, are showcasing
their and also selling theirwork there.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
So this Kagame Expo, which he encourages and he has
built a good economy out of it,is not something that just
started the other day.
It's something that he hasbuilt consistently for over the
years yes, for decades,basically.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
And it's a good thing because we might get to that,
but a lot of companies aregetting values from that and we
get to discover things.
And we have now some othertypes of expos where even
international global companiescome and they can showcase
whatever they are doing, and welove that and it's a good thing.

(37:03):
So when we went to holidays,some of these kids would charge
us money.
So they would say so, robert,give me 2,000 Rwandan francs,
I'll keep it for you.
It includes tickets, itincludes yogurt and some walk in
the park or something.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
And it's in Kigali.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yes, it was in Kigali and the school was still in
california, but in the in therural area of kigali.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
so we'd take a bus, a small mini bus oh, so they
would still come through withthat 2000 yes, you, you'd
contribute, so you, so theywould go to like 40 kids.
Someone who has seen kigaliwould get this to even those who
live there.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
But it was an experience.
So you see, what we we wantedwas like a vibe, like a
collection of other kids wherewe get to to talk, just to
celebrate that we are, we are,we are free from the books for
like two weeks or something.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
What did you learn from that?

Speaker 1 (38:01):
a lot, a lot.
I saw that.
You know hustle is real first,you know the house, you can make
money yes, you can make moneyfrom basically anything.
You can say things that are noteven yours, and people have
money, you know, as long as youpackage the story correctly.
Yes, you're going to meet theseother kids from other schools,
people you didn't even youdidn't even see before, like hey

(38:21):
, so these people have likethree legs or like five heads
and stuff.
You know you'll be sold.
Yeah, you know, just as long asyou package your story
correctly, people are going tobuy your stuff.
Just make sure you tell themthings they want to hear or
things they should hear yeahthat they don't think they
should hear.
Yeah, yeah, so you know, fromthere I learned a few things.
But yeah, yeah, and what didyou do about it?

(38:42):
Not much till late, till Ijoined university.
Oh, so you just learned.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
You're like okay, you know I can't pull this move
because I don't live in Kigali.
Number one, number two I'm inschool.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Number three.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
I don't understand this process.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
But I'll give you two to one trait.
Yes, because I grew up as aquiet kid, so I grew up as a
quiet kid, so I grew up as a oneshot.
Yeah, because I don't have uh,you don't have siblings.
No, I'm an only child.
Oh, okay, interesting, sothat's sort of played.
Was that so lonely for yougrowing up?
Not really, not really, becauseI enjoyed being spoiled no, if

(39:21):
I tell you the stories of myhouse, I didn no.
No, I didn't not at all.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
You grew in a proper, proper, discipline.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
So you see, just small, small context.
My dad was in army, a soldierwith some ranks or something,
and my mom was no different, butshe wasn in the army, but the
movements she made.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Is it true what they say about military wives?
They're also military.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Maybe even worse.
Okay, no Better.
They are more strict, morestrict than the fathers.
I would say so In my ownexperience.
Yes, yes, from what I remember,you remember, I remember my dad
wasn't there for so long.
But from what I observed fromother military families as well,
the kids would tell you thesame crazy okay, so not really

(40:18):
terrible.
but you you get to learn laterin life that you know these were
.
You know these things you wentthrough with your mother were
important.
They were shaping you forsomething else.
But there's one thing that I'velearned my mother didn't really
care that I was one.
It wasn't different for her Ifwe are one or if she has like 10

(40:41):
kids in the house.
You're still going to get thelessons that you need to get you
know and the lessons if youknow.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
She's so kind about it.
Yes, yes, african mothers.
So, robert, fast forward.
You're in high school, you'vejoined Senior 1, senior 2.
Was it difficult for you interms of grasping the concept
taught there?

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yes, academia yes, but I coped up quickly.
Yes, I was put, you know, up tospeed.
I know you're really smart.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
But the question here is when did that moment of like
?
You know, I want to reallygrasp my concept and keep them
and be able to prove that thisis it.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
So the moment of realization that I needed some
help came in when I was the 31stout of 40 kids.
The first time of the Seniorthree no, senior one.
Oh, senior one.
The very first one.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
And how did you get this help?

Speaker 1 (41:42):
So when we came back to school, you know my mom is
not very pushy, she believes inme, she knows I can do things.
She had been, you know,observing since I was a kid.
She knows I can have some flopmoments, but she knows I can
always come back way strongerand I've been able to prove this
to myself as well for quitesome time.

(42:02):
And, yes, I did, I did do thatand I reached out to the, to the
kids in the same class, youknow.
So what can I do?
What do you, would you suggest?
And I was mimicking, I wasmimicking their moves, how they
started.
Smart kids, yes, the ones thatwere grasping things a lot
quicker, yes, so what did you?
mimic.
First few things didn't work.

(42:24):
I tried to to memorize things.
You realize they memorize a lot, some of them the ones that
were, you know, the ones thatwere the first ones in class,
the top kids in the class, topthree or top two, you know the
courses of course that required.
You know there were courses ofcourse that required doing these

(42:46):
things, because in high schoolhere back in the days I don't
know what they are doing now,but we would need to sort of
memorize a few things Like, forexample, definitions of things
Like what is entrepreneurship,who is an entrepreneur?
What is a company?
I don't know things like that.
You need to know the exactwords back then.
Who is an entrepreneur?
What is a company?
I don't know things like that.
You need to know the exact wasback back then.

(43:07):
Now, since I understand things,I can always find a way to go
around and find the right thingfor you.
But you know, back then youdidn't really understand what
the concepts are because itwasn't really practical.
It was just notes that you were, you were copying from the, the
book and you really didn'texperience these things in real
life.
But I've seen things I can.
I can give you like anexplanation.

(43:29):
I've read a lot too much, butyeah, that's what.
That's how it was.
So I I tried to to, to learnand try to mimic to to to, to
copy what others did.
Yeah, some worked, othersdidn't.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yes.
So how did you finish, ofcourse, your high school?
How did that really go?
Was it much better than primaryschool?

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yes, high school really gave me a very huge shift
in my perspective on whatlearning actually is, because in
Rwanda the high school programis split into two programs.
You have what you call ordinarylevel and an advanced level.
So at ordinary you have allthese courses that all of you in

(44:13):
the country are taking, and inan advanced level you get to
choose or you know they choosefor you what specialization you
can get.
For me, in an adverse level, Idid what we call TT's in Rwanda
teacher training college, so Idid do something primary high

(44:34):
school.
You know when, so when you, weare training yourself in high
school.
You can only teach in primaryyes, oh, I see.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
So because of the level, yes, and the experience
that you have.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
And the kind of knowledge you can be able to
impart to kids.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Oh, but I normally see also guys who get A's and
then they go back to school.
They were in as either you knowmathematics assistant.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
No proper teacher though.
Yes, does that also happen here?
No, no, it doesn't.
It's not really popular here,so, uh, yeah, does that also
happen here?

Speaker 2 (45:04):
oh no, it doesn't.
It's not really popular.
Yeah, so you finish high school.
Where did you go to after that?

Speaker 1 (45:09):
uh after high school uh here at early yeah so are you
invited?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
did you apply?
How did it hey?

Speaker 1 (45:17):
hey, the early ages you had to work for these things
even now it's even.
It's actually a lot moredifficult now because now they
are writing research papers andstuff.
We didn't do that, we only didsome written.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Before you joined, you were writing research papers
.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
For us not that much.
So the research we did wasn'treally.
It didn't need to be proved.
You didn't have to take monthsof collecting data and stuff.
You could use other resourcesthat already exist.
But now it's different.
You have to write an originalresearch paper if I'm correct.

(45:54):
So for you.
What did you do?
I had to do exams, online exams.
I had to apply and you do.
You do English proficiencywanted to to check your level of
speaking and comprehendingenglish, which I'm still
struggling with, but you know,we've been able to survive it,

(46:18):
you are struggling with english.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Hey, you see, my english is short and, by the way
, just to note, alu was notwhere we are right now.
It was in town, right.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yes, close to town, rather Close to town, in a place
called Kimiuluna, right besidethe convention center and
another building called KBC,which is across the In a
building called Kigali Heights,we had the whole floor, the
second floor yeah, yeah, that'swhy you did all your alu studies
yes, uh, uh.

(46:50):
So when we started uh, they were.
They had plans to build thissame facility we're in at that
moment and they were doing theirthat simultaneously.
So when we graduated, wegraduated during, um, the very
bad times of COVID-19.
But this one had been completed.
So we came here for theregalias and stuff like that and

(47:10):
other you know clothings.
We took some pictures for thosewho were able to get here.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Others were back in their countries and yeah, for
those who don't know Africa,leadership University takes
students across Africa.
I think, yeah, we did our thing.
But for those who don't knowafrica, leadership university uh
takes a student across africa.
I think, uh, in most of thecountries, if I'm not wrong
almost all, all of the all 54countries, almost uh and uh.

(47:36):
What do they teach?

Speaker 1 (47:37):
really uh.
So things are evolving at alu.
But when we were there we had,uh, I had, I believe, three
programs, if not four.
So we had what we calledcomputer science, which is now
software engineering.
We had other three programsthat are now combined into one.

(47:59):
One was international businessand trade, where we go to learn
about people management,business modifications and other
important business particlesand how you you create a
business and turn it into asuccess.
Yeah, know how you run abusiness and turn it into a
success.
Then we had another one calledentrepreneurship, where you have

(48:20):
to start a business, yeah, andturn it into a success.
Yeah, so one way you have tomanage one, of course you can
start one.
There's no.
If even the computer science isyou can, you could start a
business.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
There's no issue to that I'm just saying what the
programs are, but hey, I don'twant to get a call from the
chancellor.
Uh four four years, yes, yes,do you think it's um an
exemplary curriculum that mostschools could learn from?

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Let me tell you ALU.
The outsiders don't reallycapture what actually ALU is.
Alu is a place to connect first.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
So there is a lot of connections that happen around
here.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
That's if you pay attention to what's really going
on.
So ALU is the best place toconnect for, starting within the
community, because we are kidswere so for us, I believe, with
kids from like almost 42countries, you see, like that's,
that's almost everyone.
Now you could wonder, you,you'd think you know these are
kids that would just, you know,come and study and stuff like

(49:20):
that, and you know you get theirdegrees and leave.
It doesn't happen that you,yeah, you, they emphasize they
they show you the benefits ofyou know connecting and getting
building rapport with each other, you know getting to know each
other.
What are their strengths, whatare their points of improvements
?
I was going to say weakness Ididn't say that, you know you

(49:40):
know things that you can helpeach other.
You know grow better into yeahand uh, there were tons of those
.
There were tons of experiencesand experiments where we had to
connect and to get to know eachother.
And you'd wonder, and you'd see, you know, after we graduated,
some of us are still trying toto build their careers but you,
you'll see, you know in 10 years, fruits will start, you know,

(50:01):
thrive, yes, exactly um.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
And this is very interesting because, uh, there,
are people also, fruits willstart, you know, to thrive.
Yes, exactly, and this is veryinteresting because there are
people who also believe that notmuch of education happens in
most of the universities.
Of course, there is what isrequired of you to pass, and to
graduate and all that.
But besides that it's also youknow the people you meet the

(50:22):
experiences that you have in theuniversity and the ability also
even to self-drive yourselfexactly.
Do you think alu is outstandingin terms of that, or from your
experience?

Speaker 1 (50:33):
lu is very practical.
Yeah, uh, not.
Uh, there isn't a lot to learnin class?
Yeah, and of course there are.
There is if you choose to study, only if you only choose to get
the information you want to getin in class.
There are those you know.
If you want to read, you canread, but the best way to to get
the most out of alu is topractice what you are being

(50:56):
given and that it's not likeit's encouraged.
It's there you are supposed todo internships?
designed.
Yeah, you are supposed to dointernships in our age.
I don't know if it's the samesystem at the moment, but we had
to do four months every year ofinternship.
So you see you, you finishingyour four years with the 16

(51:17):
months of experience, which is alot more than the regular, you
no experience.
You'd get another averageUniversity, which is was, which
was good, and from there we gotto connect as well from other,
from other people even beyond us, beyond the community itself.
So that's what people were ableto acquire the jobs they are in

(51:40):
at the moment.
You know stuff like that.
You know we grew a lot, yeah soyes, sounds interesting.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
So how many alus do we have in africa?

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I don't remember.
We have two, but we have othersister companies, like uh alx,
which you know has otherprograms that are way shorter
than what we have here, and wehave what we call the room where
they are telling stories ofafrica, training professionals
and stuff like that and otherthings, other different programs

(52:08):
as well under the same uhumbrella where ellie is as well
okay, yes so, uh, when we thinkabout such a program, what do
you say, besides even thenetworking and and connecting
the?

Speaker 2 (52:24):
you know different people from Africa, and there's
something actually I'll askabout these people because when
I've been here, I've learned acouple of things.
What is that one takeawaylesson that you got?
Because I see, even aftergraduating, you continue to be
part of the school and helpingthem in various things, but
before then, what is that onekey takeaway, besides the

(52:46):
connections that you got fromthis?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
university.
It's not to settle for less.
So always thrive and strive forthe hardest things you know,
because those are the ones withthe most rewarding rewards if
that's even English.
So you know.
So we have this mantra in luwhere it said that you're

(53:09):
supposed to to to do hard things.
Yeah, it's a mantra.
Yeah, do the hard things dohard things because you know.
You know why because the thebiggest bets are the ones with
the biggest rewards when itworks out.
So, please, you know and youhave the.
You have the resources to carrythis out.
You, please, you know and youhave the.
You have the resources to carrythis out.
You know, talk to people.
You have the community here,people in over 30 countries.

(53:31):
Imagine what you can do withthat community without with
those connections.
You know, if I want to start acompany right now in nigeria, I
can call my friend pelumi, I cancall my sister uh olua, you
know so I have a lot of friendsthere.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
This is from ALU ALU.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
And imagine which stadium in the world would you
find over 30 nationalities allat once, except excluding the
World Cup?
I'm not sure I might be wrong.
Please correct me if I'm wrong,but all I'm saying is it was
quite an experience to have andstaying with these people for

(54:10):
four years.
We get to learn, you get tolearn from them, they get to
learn from you as well, and youget to share these contacts and
you get to build this rapport.
You get to understand eachother to a point where you can
even start things together.
I've done that with some of myfriends.
We started some projects herewhere we made a little money and
it was quite an experience tolearn how you can, you know,

(54:32):
actually connect with someonethat you know it.
Four years back you would eventhink you would be able to meet
or even get to to start thingstogether with, so it was quite
an experience yes, so you wouldsay, el new makes African
connection, especially withyouth possible a lot more than
that, but, yes, that's one ofthe benefits of joining a

(54:53):
university like this at thiscaliber, yes, yes, and and even
so, here's the thing that weused to sit as they, you know,
as the first in tech theuniversity and Kigali, yeah, and
because we didn't have anyfootprints to follow, like we
were the, you know, as the first, uh, intake of the university,
and kigali yeah, and because wedidn't have any footprints to
follow, like we were just, youknow, crafting our own history.
Like no, no other program wasbefore us.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, and the university was crafting so you
guys were the pioneer class thatstarted.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yes, the class of 2017.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
so what?

Speaker 1 (55:21):
happened is we.
We.
We came to school in Septembersome joined before in.
You know, we had some othercourses to take, usually in the
language, english and otherstuff, and from there we started
.
We kicked off the programs, ofcourse, and we had what you
called leadership core I hope.
I'm not messing this up, but yes, that was the, that was the

(55:44):
name of the program and we hadfour courses to do and, without
being without going to too manydetails, we got we go to a time
we had to go to the internships.
When we came back, every one ofus was saying how things are
different, like I think I'mgrowing.
I think I'm growing, I thinkI'm getting better, I think I'm

(56:05):
not recognizing myself.
It had only been like monthsand you know, you'd see that
you've changed, you've improveda lot.
You know and you'd compare towhat you've been able to see in
other.
You know your fellow kids, youknow in other universities and
you'd be like I'd still choose.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
LU.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
If I was to even begin again.
I'd still choose LU because I'mseeing what I'm becoming and
things I'm able to do.
Not to brag, of course, becausenot everyone, not every smart
graduate, is from LU in Rwanda,but all I'm saying is, if you
use the resources availablecorrectly, which were numerous,

(56:49):
you'd see yourself improving andgetting to to be a version of a
person that you would be proudof yeah, so uh at lu, uh, I
understand also, it doesn't comecheap.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I understand also it doesn't come cheap, right?
It has also been a place thathas been taunted Like even if
you pay that much, which is much, it's not just that much which
is much it still matchesaccording to the experience of

(57:20):
what you get there and thevalues and the way you feel day
to day.
But do you think also thatkeeps our smart kids?

Speaker 1 (57:29):
otherwise you benefit from this right, so I always
speak to my experience.
Yes, I can't speak for everyoneelse, but what I've been able
to go through was that I won'tsay it kept anyone away because,
for example, we had some, someproducts in place, like we had
what we could, I say, which wasincome sharing agreement yeah

(57:51):
well, you could.
You could apply for the, foryou'd call it a loan or
something, right so, and you'dstudy.
We some of some of us even hada hundred percent of the of the
tuition covered.
So just make sure you'regetting your academics, you're
doing your internships correctly, you're doing your projects
correctly.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
You know, just get the most out of LU, as you can.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
And it wasn't based on how much you earn or whatever
.
Of course.
If you chose to pay fully, itwas, you know know, pretty hefty
yeah but for those who chose toapply for the income sharing
agreement, of course some casesare there, but most of us were,
we accepted in the, in the, inthe program, and uh, and we're

(58:40):
able to get the education wewouldn't get otherwise.
So so you know, but that's me,that might be me, so someone
might have a differentperspective, but to me I don't
think anyone was excluded.
Basically, yes, yes, that's afair point as long as you are
passing the exams of admissionand you're killing it, basically
, if you're smart enough toaccomplish what you're supposed

(59:03):
to be accomplishing.
And, of course, even for thosewho are struggling with the even
language they had.
They had a program calledlanguage support program and I
even interned in these, in thisprogram, and I know, I know what
was being done there.
You know they're beingsupported, everyone was included
.
It was inclusive.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Kaka okay, yes, uh, fader, so uh, would you say in
that case that, um, if you, ifyou failed exam, it doesn't
matter.
If you, you know you could beable to afford the full fee, uh,
and you know, you, you, youqualified for the entry level

(59:42):
exams, but or eventually youfail, would you be expelled?
What would happen?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
I'm curious to know about this because I I don't
think I'm the best one to answerthis question, but you.
You are part of the program yes, I was, I was, but uh, I I
won't say that.
So they expelled, so theexpelling would happen, but I, I
, I I didn't get to to dig deepto know what was the cause, you
know.
But of course there are otherreasons to be expelled, like

(01:00:08):
disciplinary conducts and stufflike that.
But you know, of course I'mpretty sure every school has
these systems where you youperforming too poorly you can
get expelled.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I mean the reason why I'm asking is because I know
some of these cases happen orwhereby someone actually came in
really qualified, buteventually, you know a lot of
things happen and and you knowthey're not performing anymore,
no matter which effort that, uh,you know, are provided.

(01:00:40):
Uh, so I just wanted to knowhow in you, but of course these
are discussions that it's youknow we can continue.
So I just wanted to know how,but of course these are
discussions that it's you knowwe can continue to have, of
course and even with the ALUitself from the you know
management side and what plansthey have in house.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Right, but fast forward Chief.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Did you work for?
Is it Yoko, between your gapyear?
Did you have a gap year?

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
No, no, a gap, gap year.
Did you have a gap year?
No, no, I got up between, inbetween the university, I
started and finished the wholething.
I didn't have the time, Ididn't have the patience to come
back if I went now a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
So this yoke, oh, are you working still well at.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
ALU.
No, it was my first event andso in my first year I did an
internship as a businessstrategy assistant yeah yeah and
uh yeah, we were doing, uh,market research in rwanda, kenya
and mauritius, and also southafrica where the headquarters
were so this was not rwandesecompany no, it was a south

(01:01:38):
african company so people alwaysworks with international
companies, not always Even atfirst year.
You see, Elu has missions.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
You have goals.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
You have goals that you want to achieve, either by
when you finish, by when yougraduate, or also beyond.
So it was my goal to experiencedifferent markets and how
things are done.
I got lucky I got the chance tojoin Yoko, which later came to

(01:02:10):
blossom into a very greatcompany which is very
influential at the moment.
I loved the experience and thepeople there were nice, a lot of
support and many things tolearn, because that's the first
time I ever started sellingthings in person, door to door,
which might sound like thingsthat like practices that might

(01:02:30):
not scale, but it shows you howyou need to build, how you can
be able to build a love, reallove for a brand that you can
create, a brand that peopleactually connect with because
you're there in their faces and,of course, you can create a

(01:02:50):
brand that people actuallyconnect with.
you know, because you're therein their faces.
And of course, these are not.
You can't scale these.
These are not, you know, costefficient, but you know.
Or even time efficient, but youknow they, they create, they,
they, they lay a foundation fora brand, for for a company to to
build them, the more efficientthe scalable stuff upon yeah,
yes, the the more efficient, thethe scalable stuff upon.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Yeah, yes, uh, so fast forward you.
You, as you as your secondinternship was, uh, working for
you co-founded a company knownas melos what was this?
About so, oh, okay, okay rightthis is what you were founded
with your alu alumni right thisis what you were founded with
your alu alumni.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Yes, I had two, two friends with it I was only one
friend and you know, you knowhow stuff work, so uh.
So my friend, erastus kirwin,shout out to these guys.
He's amazing, he's a geniushe's a genius engineer.
So we used to hang out.
We were, you know, schoolmatesand we'd hang out.
We would talk about life andstuff like that, and once we
talked, you know, on how let'smake some money, kaka, we are

(01:03:50):
broke.
So I tell you yes, of course,students.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Kigali Heights, manenos if you come.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Lanshan Chava is 10,000, 10,000 if you come to
Rwanda, visit Kigali.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
It's your understand when this chief says he was the
standards.
He was spending a lot of moneyin there and not remaining, not
remaining, you don't even havethe rito to start with.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
So we said so here's the thing I used to love.
So I used to go to the hostelswhere the students you know the
fellow students were, you know,living and they had a fully
fledged kitchen in everyapartment they were living in
and they would cook and theywould enjoy their food, you know

(01:04:38):
.
So these are different cultures.
You know I remember my friendMusa Sharif is from Liberia.
Please don't kill me if I'msaying this, if I'm mistaking
this, but he would cook foodthat's so delicious and I'm like
kaka.
I would pay to eat this foodand he would be like just enjoy

(01:05:00):
your food, kaka, don't be tooharsh on yourself.
And it was a whole experience.
And some friends from kenya andyou know others, others as well
and uh, and some food frompeople from um, you know some
arabic countries and yeah, seethis, this was a whole mixture
of cultures and the feasts andthe food, the meals they were

(01:05:21):
cooking, were a whole differentexperience for me.
So I was like I told my friendcan we make some money from this
?
Because I know some peoplemight pay for this, because the
flavors and the tests, and theyare very limited.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
You know, you guys have good food and you love food
right I would say yes, but ifyou travel around.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
If you go to other countries, things are different
and you get to enjoy differenttests and different you know
types of things like that yeahand uh.
We later found out, you know,fast forward that people were
not coming, so just to give you,so this melos was about cooking
so it was.
So, to give you a very shortexplanation it was airbnb but

(01:06:02):
for food.
You a very short explanation itwas airbnb but for food.
Oh so you would book, you,you'd you'd have an interface
where you'd you'd book a mealand you go down with a host in
their home.
So if you if you're catchingthese very quickly it's not
about food.
Basically, it's about acommunity, people meeting each
other, dating and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Ah, I see, but why did it fail?
I think that's a good model inRwanda.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Yes, but I think we were wrong with timing because
we started in around mid, no, no, somehow in the beginning of
end of 2019.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
If you see what I mean, so around August,
september I now that I thinkabout it after this podcast,
asked me about that specificexperience because there's
someone else who is building itin kenya and he's here with me
yeah, maybe we had to shareabout around that idea yes, I
had to share with one of ourcolleagues, grahamwanga, and it

(01:07:04):
was like, hey, so let's findsome money and start this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Then, when I was in Nairobi, when boarding for the
company I'm working for, yes,but yes, we did this.
People loved it, not for foodof course, food.
Food is good, you know, we lovefood, yeah, and, but people
wanted to meet others and thatwas the most, uh, loved, most
preferred feature.
We saw that people were, youknow.

(01:07:28):
So we had this small thingwhere we had you had like a
title, uh, your name and twosentences about you, and we
would.
We would monitor which pagespeople are spending the most
time on, and they were notspending the most time on food,
on the meals, on the menus.
They're only spending time onother people's profiles and, uh,

(01:07:49):
it showed us that, you know.
You know the culture here isstill instilled, as much as we'd
like to deny it, but peoplestill love each other.
People are innately good.
Yeah, you know.
People want to know others.
Yeah, if, even after all thebad shit, you'd go through with
others, you still?
want to be a good person yeahinnately internally so yeah so

(01:08:12):
that's what we found out, butyou know how did he feel.
You asked the timing, so westarted 2019 and early 2020 you
know what?
Happened, but also theregulation is difficult getting
the approvals, so RRDB, which isthe business issuing entity in

(01:08:33):
Rwanda and it's even hard toensure people's safety, and
people are people but Uber wasable to do it and Airbnb and
other companies curated it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Yeah, you're right, but of course, you know, even
Uber as a business has its ownchallenges.
As you speak, of course, evenMicrosoft goes down sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
So all I'm saying is you know, every company has its
own problems.
You're quite an entrepreneur.
You see, I'm not trying tobring, I'm not trying to put
shade to any other business.
All I'm saying is there'snothing is perfect out here.
We can always get the chance totry out things and get guidance
, instead of getting shut downIf you're trying something that

(01:09:17):
sounds interesting and you areconvinced that it's interesting
and you are getting feedbackfrom the actual users that this
thing is interesting.
There should be a system inplace to support you, not to
vilify you.
Hey, kaka, you bring thingsthat we don't know here.
How are we going to track our?
You know things like you know.
I understand.

(01:09:37):
Of course there are concerns,but the approach is not.
Shouldn't be the approachshouldn't be hey, approach is
not, shouldn't be.
The approach should be hey,stop.
This should be like how do weformalize this thing?
How do we work with you tosupport you?
That maybe you can, you canslow down, you know, in growing
and we can start, maybe with ahundred people.
We, we, we, we, we do a testingof different, you know, uh,

(01:10:00):
systems or how you can deliverthese services that you want to
deliver.
Yeah, and now we can, you know,track your, your earnings so
that we can take our taxes stuff, deliver these services that
you want to deliver?
Yeah, and now we can, you know,track your earnings that you
can take our taxes, stuff, likethat, so that you are bad by the
rules of the regulations thatare in place or even they can
even create your own.
But things are improving.
Kaka, yeah, now, sandbox around.
You know we are early stagestartups can, can you know,
apply and you know they workwith different entities

(01:10:22):
regulators to to maneuver thingsand be able to to live.
Yes, but for us, the, the mainchallenge was called covet.
Yeah, and it was really hard togain trust again, yeah, out of
people to hey, you're going tomeet someone to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
You know, put people in the stadium when they do not
comply.
Hey, when you say like that no,it was so.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
You see, we had rules to follow, because this was a
quite a particular, a veryunique moment.
So we had things to follow tobe able to survive.
Yeah, yeah.
And you see, a country that'snot as resourceful as the others
, like rwanda, yeah, you cannotafford.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
The people are the resources so you have.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
If you can't maintain their lives, then what are you
doing?
Sometimes you can give them thetough love so that you can
survive this thing, becauseeveryone is selfish, but of
course someone might say on thecontrary if you talk about that
today.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
it was just, you know , no here, no there.
After all is said and done yes,yes, yes.
But you know, that's adiscussion for another day.
Exactly so fast forward.
You worked for variouscompanies on various positions,
but were they all tech?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Yes, why tech?
So I've always loved there's.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Alora, Tech GetEquity , and there's TechStars.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
TechStars is just a project that I continued with,
uh, with my friend.
Yeah, uh, we started that afteruh, melos wasn't, you know,
working quite well and uh, youknow, and we're having trouble.
But what we found out abouttext us is that other companies
are also having the sametroubles, but some could be
saved, so we started this.

(01:12:12):
Funding issues no, just, youknow business maneuvers, like
business models, maybe changingfrom, you know, a brick and
mortar business to online.
You know, you know it was sortof a clinic for businesses so it
would help others.
You know, set up, you know,online, uh, presence, yeah, or
even maneuver, even if they had,you know, some, some of them
even had their own presence, butthey were not getting the, the
orders or whatever they wantedto get the growth they were the

(01:12:34):
way they were shooting for.
So we're there to help.
Yes, so we had the experience.
We had some some of the lessonswe got from elu, the
internships and stuff.
Of course, we had had our levelof delivery, but we did good
how many of you from ALU wereworking for that company.
We're four.
We're just a group of peopletrying to help others,

(01:12:58):
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
So I mean also ALU has this program where they have
certain companies that theyoffer graduates or interns to,
as it is, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
So, lu, as for my understanding, when we were
there, we had this programcalled Career Development and
there would be a lot ofopportunities you would apply to
, which would be like jobvacancies in different companies
and you'd filter which ones youwant and you would apply and

(01:13:32):
they would assist.
They had, you know, one-on-onesessions with any student that
was interested.
Yeah, you know they would giveyou career advice.
They would.
They would actually help youpractically achieve.
You know you, they'll help you.
You know, find the companiesthat you don't do in turn into
or to happen to turn with, andalso companies you don't you
don't to work with, and it wouldhelp you understand what the

(01:13:53):
requirements are, the skillsthat you need, the capacity in
those skills that you need.
You can go and freshen up andyou know, build up, stack up,
you know your muscle up, your,your experience.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Basically, yes, yeah and uh.
Fast forward this year, youjoin.
Africa is talking, and fastforward this year, you joined.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Africa is Talking yes one and only how was that
experience, steve?
Hey, so if I tell you it wasactually random, okay, because I
didn't know about.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Africa is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Talking before, okay, but I was like so you see,
there was this wave a few monthsago.
It's still going.
I'm not, you know, knockinganyone's game, anyone's hustle,
I'm just saying, you know AI.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
AI was everywhere.
Artificial intelligence yesyeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
So I was like just not to give you too much of the
stories, but I was like firstword, who is going to lead these
technology developments thatare coming up in Africa?
Okay, because I always believedthat Africa has its own
problems that are unique.
There are different from whatany other countries in other
continents are.
Yeah, and they'll only besolved by us.

(01:14:59):
Okay, you get what I mean.
So I look, please, please,explain.
So Africa, for example.
Let me give you an example.
Uh, you'll see, in some, someof the countries here in east
africa, yeah, just let me giveyou a very dummy example.
So you see, we have these, uh,architectural plans, yeah, when

(01:15:23):
we are building our homes, andyou'd find a house, yeah, in
kigali, or like Burundi orNairobi, with this pointed roof,
if you see what.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
So you'll be like.
But, if I remember correctly,these plants are for places
where they have a lot of snowand stuff like that, so they
don't want it to be too densefor the house when it's stuck
there.
So they build a pointed roof sothat they can fall off, so like
it has never.
So that they can fall off, soit has never snowed in Kigali
why?
Do we have millions andmillions?

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
of these Now that you talk about it.
I don't know if our viewers cansee it, but I can see a couple
of houses and they look likethat Maybe you can insert some
footage and stuff like that, Notonly here but some other places
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
So we like to be make you know why.
Why are we driving?
Open pasting yeah like, why arewe driving v8 cars with v8
engines in a country the topspeed is 80 miles per hour?
Like you know, your turbo opensat 90.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
what does it?

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
do so.
You're just buying it toconform with others, just with
the norm that you reach, or youhave the money.
Ah, the good cars.
You see, all I was saying is weneed to open our eyes and see
that and think for ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
We can only solve our own problem with our own
solutions.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Yes, don't do things because others are doing it.
Find your own, a zone ofexcellence, yeah, and use it to
solve the problems that arearound you.
Yeah, just don't go the routesthat others are going just
because they are doing it andthat's what's cool, yeah, you
know.
Look into the future.
What's going to happen.

(01:17:08):
How can you get ahead of these?
How can you be in the drivingseat?
Oh, how can you join those onesthat are already in the driving
seat and you join forces andyou learn and you grow with them
?
yeah, and you know things gowell you succeed yeah, life is a
bet itself, so you always beton yourself, but because,

(01:17:28):
whether you do little or whetheryou do a lot, it's always the
same effort.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
Yeah, so you choose whichever you want so how did
this connect with the africastocking?

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
exactly so I was.
I was looking at this, I waslike so in the future?
For example, I was seeing theseupdates on linkedin.
You know people saying, hey,you know I might not be.
I've been an engineer, softwareengineer, for the past 10, 15
years.
Yeah, and I'm not sure if I'mgoing to be, you know, doing
this in the next two yearsbecause of the, the, the, the

(01:18:01):
pressure, the latestdevelopments that are coming up
in ai and stuff like that, thatai is gonna take their job.
Yes, of course, everyone wasfrustrated you frustrated in
their own area.
But for me I was like so I cancomplain or I can get on board.
So of course, things happen,trends happen, but I was seeing
the level, the depth ofdisruption that AI was bringing

(01:18:25):
and I could see that it wasn'tsomething that's going to fade
away just like that With thestories of NFTs.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
These are very controversial things very
sensitive to some people.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
So sorry guys, but you know yes, some people minted
these things and they went toalmost nothing yeah even
negative value, you know so yeah.
So I was like let me find aplace where I can educate myself
and join forces with others.
I can bring what I know, yeah,and others can also bring what

(01:18:56):
they know, and we can shareknowledge and I can build up my
muscle yeah and and be able tobe ready, ready, and I'm glad I
did.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
I'm having a good time yeah, so what is the future
of Kigali and Rwanda in generalin relation to you?
Know what Africa's Talking doesand the tech ecosystem around
it, Right?
So?

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
just to backtrack, africa's Talking was created out
of the love of software andcreating solutions for Africa
that actually make sense forAfricans.
Solutions for Africa thatactually make sense for Africans
.
And that's what we arechampioning for and I'm seeing
this happen in near future,where we keep solving problems
for local companies, basicallyin Rwanda.

(01:19:41):
We are partnering with a lot ofcompanies and all of entities
in Rwanda to be able to give out, to launch solutions that
actually make sense for thewidespread problems, challenges,
stuff like that.
So I see AT being the businesspioneer in that area, where we

(01:20:03):
give out, where we launchsolutions that actually make
sense and are actually solvingreal problems without importing
business models and businessmaneuvers from other countries.
We start from here, we buildwith our own army of developers
here and we launch stuff thatmakes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Yes, that's kind of fascinating.
So, as we come to an end, if Iwas a developer, what would you
tell us?

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
I'd say please get on board as quickly as you can.
Things are moving quickly andAfrica Stock is going to be the
driving seat and, at the moment,all of Africa.
We have over 140,000 developersin our community and we are the
most engaged developercommunity in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
So to see what that means, what do you have in store
for the developers, developersaround.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
So we are hosting hackathons at the moment.
As we speak, right now, we havehackathons.
It's ongoing.
It's ongoing and, besides thecash that you get to bag when
you go home after you win, youget to join the same community
that I was talking about and youget to share knowledge and
skills with other fellowattendees and you have the
chance to work.

(01:21:11):
And also, if what you create issomething that you are
passionate about and you'd liketo continue it, pursuing it as a
business, we have a platform,we have a marketplace full of
amazing stuff that was createdby you know, developers in our
ecosystem and other partners,and we would love to vet it the

(01:21:33):
program or the software or thesolution you're creating yeah,
and see if it's fit for for thecriteria of you know being on
our marketplace, because youknow it's for the best.
Yeah and uh from there, plusmore other benefits.
Please join alu, uh, africa'syes yes, only the best.
Yes, after ALU, you joinAfrica's Talking and we're good.

(01:21:56):
Yes, yes, also the link just toplug ourselves.
You know, community lariancom.
There you can find all theinformation that you need.
And yes, developers, you arewelcome and my name is Robert
Tum.
Is robert um, anywhere youwould want to find me and you

(01:22:16):
can follow me on twitter on thelinks at the screen.
Yeah and uh, yes, and we canget in touch and I can give you
more update and what's comingand things will keep evolving
and the best is coming.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
What would be your parting shot to our listeners?

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Please elaborate Kaka .

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
What is the takeaway Key takeaway from this
conversation?

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
All right.
So I would say you know, alwayslearn.
I'm learning.
I'm never where I want to be.
I'll never get there.
I'll always keep the hunger toobtain more knowledge, more
skills.
Always connect with people thatare in places where you want to
be and also look out, Do thingsthat people need.

(01:23:05):
Don't just follow the crowd.
Follow the crowd you can ifit's important for you, but
please let's create footprintsfor the others to follow.
Let's lay foundations forothers to create things that
Africa needs.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
Very nice.
Thank you so much, ourlisteners.
That was Robert Tobaini,country manager, africa's
Talking, and, coincidentally, aswe finish, it's gonna rain.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
That's a blessing, I think it's been quite quite some
time and the past months weretoo hot.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Yeah, yeah thank you, god, it's a good day.
It's a good day it is.
I say it's a it's a good day.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Were too hot.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Thank you, god, it's a good day.
It is, I say it's a good day,day of the Lord, day of the Lord
, and as usual, I feel like weshould conclude with an African
proverb and our proverb todaywhich is a Surprise me, kaka
Word, surprise me kaka word ofthe wise, unless you call out

(01:24:22):
who will open the door.
it's more of like a question,but is a proverb exactly, and
what it means is that mostentrepreneurs are
do-it-yourselfers Simply becausethey want assurance that things
will be done right.
The end result must reflecttheir vision and, truth be told,
it's hard to trust others withyour vision Right, especially

(01:24:45):
when you are just gettingstarted.
However, when necessary, youmust ask for help.
The vision is counting on it.
You won't receive help unlessyou let people know that you are
in need of their assistance.
And when you ask, doors ofopportunity usually open.
Don't get in your own way.

(01:25:06):
Right, and this actuallyreflects the community spirit
that Africa's Talking isapproaching the developers with,
whereby, if you're stuck, ifyou feel like you don't
understand, they're a developeracross.
Africa.
That could actually solve mostof your problem.
And, by the way, another thingthat maybe most people don't
know is that most of ourquestions or concerns by the

(01:25:30):
developers right now, over 70%of them are solved by by the
developers.
Right now, over 70% of them aresought by developers for
developers Right, so not justtop 1% community just by chance.
It's because you're intentionalabout it and we want developers
to build scalable solutionsSolutions.
Until next time.
My name is Michael Kemadi, orMK if you want, representing

(01:25:51):
Impact Masters Podcasts,africa's Talking Podcasts and at
Africa's Talking we provideusage, dms airtime and data and
voice solutions, all thisdesigned for 2G technology
through API, integrating withall telecoms across the world.

(01:26:12):
Thank you so much.

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#40 - Robert Tumaini

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#40 - Robert Tumaini