#41 Impact Master Hope Wanjeri: From Nairobi's Streets to Tech Innovation and Mentorship #africa #womenintech #podcast #inspiration #community

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:11):
All right, welcome and welcome back to today's
podcast, a collaboration betweenAfrica's Talking Podcast and
Impact Masters Podcast.
This is the space to bring youall the big names, all the

(00:38):
movers and the shakers in thetech ecosystem.
What does Africa's Talking do,you may ask.
Glad you did.
We are out here poweringcommunication solutions across
Africa, that is, across thecontinent, by providing

(01:04):
developers with our robust setof APIs, which span across SMS,
voice, ussd, airtime and data.
That being said, welcome to thespace and feel free to like,
subscribe and share this withyour networks.

(01:26):
On today's episode, we'll befeaturing a budding developer in
the tech ecosystem, eager tohear her story Without further
ado.
I am Sylvia Jebet, developerrelations from Africa's Talking,

(01:47):
ready to get the conversationstarted.
Alongside me is my colleague MK.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Thank you so much, sylvia, this is MK, or my
colleague, if you want, mad, ifyou want.
And uh, as uh, sylvia, my manknows today, uh, today I'm
sitting on the uh conductors isthis conductors or co-driver

(02:17):
seat code driver driver seat andlistening to the ladies you
know, and also contributing aswell.
Uh, but welcome once again, uh,to this podcast today.
Uh of today, we have one andonly one and only.
Op Wanjeri.
Hi, yes, yes, yes.
So, Op, as Sylvia introducedher, she's a budding developer,

(02:40):
but of course, beyond that, youwant to know who is Hope.
You know where did this Hopestart from right.
As well as you know, she hasdone amazing stuff.
She's GHC.
I don't know what that means,but she'll tell us about it.
Ghc 23 Scholar.
Uiux Designer, Microsoft LearnStudent Ambassador, GDSC

(03:03):
Co-Leader at KCA University, AWSCertified Cloud Practitioner.
Azubi Graduate Moringa SchoolCampus Ambassador.
And actually most people knowDrew Moringa School.
Yesterday we had a guest whoactually remembered her from
those initiatives, but yeah.
AWS Restart Graduate.
And one thing about Hope isthat when she engages she's like

(03:26):
all in, so she'll give us sometips about that, but ideally
welcome.
Thank you, Hope.
How are you today?

Speaker 4 (03:35):
I'm good.
How are you?
Good, good, good, good.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, You're welcome.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
It's been a bit right .
You've been saying we'll dothis for now.
I don't know how many months,but today it's happening.
Good to have you as our guests.
How are you, though?

Speaker 4 (03:52):
I'm doing very well, thank you.
I'm so glad to be here, niceshooting location.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Good view eh.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Very good.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
We're happy that you're happy.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Thank you and we hope that we'll learn more from you,
so Hope.
Where did all this start?

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, Like where did you, where are you born?

Speaker 4 (04:19):
You want to know more about it.
The whole journey the whole yesyes, yes Right from the word go
yes, I hope you're ready Threehours.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
We don't mind Okay.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
So I was born in Nairobi.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
I have which part in Nairobi.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
St Mary's Hospital.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
That is in East London, langata.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
I have one sister, my mom my dad.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, that's it your first born, last born First born
.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yes, team first born, that's where the drive comes
from.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
So did you grow up?
Where did you grow up?

Speaker 4 (05:09):
I grew up in Raqqa, still in Raqqa.
Yes, that's where I grew upWith my mom, my sister and my
dad.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Very nice and you're so brave, so if you would really
expand so that doesn't soundlike you know, this is a
question and answer kind ofconversation.
It's your story and peoplewould love to know more in terms
of you know who you are reallybeyond you know all these Ula

(05:40):
Malu of AWS good Lambalu of AWS,good UI UX Because we also
believe that our formativegrowing up story actually forms
some of it.
Someone might see Hope asself-driven, always showing up,
always standing up for ladies,always trying to teach and all
that but, they don't really know, and sometimes the better part

(06:03):
of it is that there's someonemaybe who is at that stage where
you don't want to tell.
So that's why we go all the wayback and keep it raw and just
be open about it, if you're okaywith that.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Because of course.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
I also know that people are also okay sharing
about who they are, because also, people are judgmental, but we
don't judge.
So please tell us how was itgrowing up?
Tell us the fun story.
What do you remember about?
Did you go to kindergarten orCVC?

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Or PP1?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Kindergarten or nursery, oh kindergarten.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Me.
I'm a nursery school kind ofguy Exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Same you went to nursery school Now, we didn't
know that about you.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
So, tell us about it.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
How was your first day in school?

Speaker 4 (06:51):
That was a long time ago.
I don't think I can remember myfirst day in school like
kindergarten.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's the story you want to hear.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
Okay, I was too small .
Okay, I remember my teacher'sname I was too young.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
How old do people go to Kidagata?

Speaker 4 (07:08):
Oh, I was two and a half.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Oh, that's too minor yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
I was two and a half.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
You know, nursery school people go at around six
years.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Eh yeah, my nursery school.
We went at three.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah, cbc maybe or something, but from what I know,
maybe this is news to you guys,so you used to like touch your
ear.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Maybe you've seen that joke a lot, but it was not
a joke.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
That's how you could know this person can be accepted
in nursery school or not.
So if you can touch your ear,then you're okay to go to
nursery school, and then that issix years thereabouts.
And then now from there you goto nursery school, and then that
is six years they are about,and then now from there you go
to class one.
Right now people even spendlike three years in like PP1,
pp2 or something.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
It's three years in nursery, that's now what is
called kindergarten.
Or nursery, but just that firststage of school.
Yeah, it's about three or twoyears.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
That's now maybe something else.
It's not nursery.
Nursery is just one year.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Grade one, then you go to grade one.
No grades, it was class one toclass eight.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Now it's grades, Like you go to grade one, grade two
grade four you graduate, then Idon't know, grade five and six
you graduate Then what Then?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
you start junior high , junior high, yes, three years,
or Three years.
Three years Then senior high,three years, then senior high.
I don't know if there are CBCexperts.
They can tell us in the chat.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
But you sound like you guys sound like experts, so
I'm just learning also.
So how was your?
How was that?
The getting was two and a halfyears, huh.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yeah, years.
Yeah.
Then, after joining my school,was called ready for junior
academy.
Yeah, I was there since primary, then graduated to high school,
but I went to St Anne Liyuki.
Yeah, oh, wow.
Yeah, wanjirunji was there.

(09:02):
Yeah, that's why I rememberedit.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Who.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
There's an influencer Instagram and they have a
podcast.
She's called Wanjiru Njuru.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Oh, wanjiru Njuru, she went to the same school, ah
Is it a high school or primary.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
A high school High school St Hans.
St Hans.
Yeah, when is it?

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Kiambu Is there a good school.
You know, you were telling us.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
We're going too fast.
We're in nursery one minute ago.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Now we're in high school.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Just take us slowly, tell us about nursery.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
How was that experience?
Everyone has a differentexperience.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Nursery I can't really remember.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
It's too windy a bit yeah.
But go ahead, go ahead, don'tmind the wind.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
Hey, okay, in Nassau, I was small, I remember.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I used to, and be loud if you can, okay.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
I like to play as every other child then.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
So which games did you like?
To play your favorite ones.
Yeah, today the nature istrying to I don't know what's
happening.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Why did you pass?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
through.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
She's doing the most so tell us the games.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
I like to play hide and seek, chaco chaco.
What else my memory?
There's no things like katifrom ladies.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
You know, kati, right where people throw balls and,
by the way, the reason why it'simportant From late is not a day
late.
You know, kati, right whenpeople throw balls and there's
someone in the middle.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
And, by the way, the reason why it's important even
to talk about these games isthat I find like kids nowadays,
they have you know more.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Video games.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, video games, and also even when they're
playing, it's not really Likewe're losing the culture, right?
Yeah, so did you play theculture, right yeah, so did you
play things like Kati.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Yeah, tapu is also old.
Chako, chako.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
It's called Chako Chako.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, chako Chako, I didn't seek no, no, no, that's a
new game.
Chako Chako is.
I tap you and then we run, andthen we tap the next person and
then they run.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Okay, and what the next person?
And then they run and the onewho taps what do?

Speaker 4 (11:24):
they do.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
If.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
I tap you, you start running and tap the next one so
that you start being chased, theone who taps.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
what do they do?

Speaker 4 (11:31):
They run away, they join the running squad.
So say I tap you, you run rightTouching.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Sylvia.
What would I be doing?

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Running.
Oh, everyone is running allover.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Anyway.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Okay, that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Okay, another one, another game police and robber.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
How is that played?

Speaker 4 (11:55):
We have the police team and the robber team.
It was fun being a robber.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
So is it like you guys like shoot each other or
arrest?

Speaker 4 (12:02):
No, we have a place called the cell, so if you are a
robber, you're taken to there.
Then if someone passes they canfree you from jail.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Passes what.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Like if we have a cell right, so if a robber comes
and taps my hand, I'm free togo.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Oh, I see, oh interesting, you guys didn't
play like hide and seek.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
We did, we did.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
What about rope skipping?
It's called what Public vanPublic van.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Public van.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
That's the actual term, it's public van.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Public van.
And then what?

Speaker 4 (12:40):
But you used to sing it.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Of course anyone who was like everyone had their own
way of singing it, but of courseyou guys did that too, right.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
What about the one that you draw lines on the
ground and then you jump andthen you're?
Kicking the stone, or you throwa stone and then you're like.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Open.
I can't even remember the name.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Maybe not English name, of course.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Long time, long time.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
Really long time.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Alright, I won't give my preserved comments.
Yeah, but in all these games,what did you learn?

Speaker 4 (13:19):
playing them.
Well, it was really fun, Likeafter studying.
It was a nice way ofinteracting with your friends it
was a nice way of spending yourtime.
As a child.
We didn't have like phonespaired or no smartphones, so it
was really what one was thistambo, I'm sick.
Kale 1990?

(13:41):
No, not that old 2000 andsomething.
No, it was those times when youdidn't have smartphones, you
only had.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Catululus.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Then that must be early 2000, right or almost 2010
.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Because iPhone came out in 2007, uh, and then, uh,
of course, there was someandroid around and blackberry.
Those were the smartphones.
So I think by 2005 there were acouple of smartphones.
Blackberry was leading the wayand then android and then, of
course, iphone.
So, yeah, so take me throughyour lower primary school.

(14:29):
Are you this kid who is acingeverything, fighting everyone,
starting trouble, or just wherereserved?
Okay, Nursery.
Not nursery, lower primary.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
But you can talk about nursery.
Once I was, can I remember?
I think I was mischievous A bit, just a bit.
What else did I used to do?
I think I just remember I likedplaying and meeting new people,
traveling.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Even in class?
Yeah, but it's allowed.
I think in nursery schoolpeople do all this.
Did you guys used to sleepduring the day?

Speaker 4 (15:16):
It's part of the routine.
We never did that, but anywayit's okay, I slept enough.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Six years is enough time to sleep at home.
Now that I think about it, yeah, so you go to now lower primary
school, right?
How was that transition?
Did you go to a differentschool or the same school?

Speaker 4 (15:36):
Same school.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
The same classmates, so that's not bad.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
The transition was not bad.
Yeah, it was very easy.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Anything you remember vividly now that you're in
lower primary school.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
Yeah, I remember we were with my mom and then she
knocked the door and then shewas like welcome to class one.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Your mom was a teacher.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
No In the morning.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
She was taking you to class one, yeah.
And then everyone like hey,welcome.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
No, my mom said it before I went to class.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Was she in or out?

Speaker 4 (16:07):
We were together at the door.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh, she was like celebrating you and a welcome.
Yeah, yeah, she was in therelike the teacher or something.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
No, she was in there Mom see, we are with you.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
What is?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
this you know, sometimes when your mom is a
teacher.
There's some way like ah, I sawyou in the morning.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
No, she was not a teacher, she just told me come.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
How was that?

Speaker 4 (16:32):
It was nice.
Like it felt different, like Inoticed there's something
different.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, and you got excited.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
Well, you know.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yes, so you had friends.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
Oh yes, A lot of friends A lot A mischievous
person I must have.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
I was.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
No.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Just a bit Like 10 of them or 20?
.
No, like I'm talking about themischievous ones, it was just a
bit Most of the kids, okay, notevery kid, but most of the kids.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Yeah, I liked interacting with people.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think.
I've been an extrovert most ofmy life.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
So which was your favorite subject at that stage?
Let's see, I liked science.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Science.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Which sciences no like just science.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
You just had science.
Oh, you guys, there was somescience, there was a science,
that was okay, just science ohnice nice nice and then, uh, you
progressed really well yeah tohigh school.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Oh, we are still in lower primary take us through
this journey.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
I hope it's really hard to get that audience who
are listening.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
This is the hardest one, go ahead Because you are
mischievous.
What activities were you doingin school?
Because you are extroverted andsocial.
So I'm sure what were you doingin?

Speaker 4 (18:02):
lower primary.
One thing I remember is that Ibroke my hand.
I think that's one of thethings I remember While doing
what we were carrying a baby onmy back, and then I was, I slept
, and then I slept on my handand then I broke my hand.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
This was still while in law primary.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Plus one.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
You were carrying a baby, yeah, interesting, so you
broke your hand.
That must have been annoying,because I'm guessing you liked
playing the way you said you hada lot of games.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
No, I went back to playing With that thingy on my
hand.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
The plaster.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Didn't stop you.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
That's your sister.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
A random baby.
I don't even remember who.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
You love babies, right?

Speaker 4 (18:49):
No, I was just small.
I don't even remember who Icarried that was a long time ago
.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
I hope, if you keep saying long time ago, we'll go
chronologically here, this, thiswill happen the next year, this
will happen, actually, actually, if you keep saying we'll go
even to months and then days sothat we get into that story,
when was this?

Speaker 4 (19:15):
well, I can't really remember.
Yeah, maybe 2000, 2000 andsomething I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Maybe I start counting class 1 was 2000 and
something.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
I can't remember.
Maybe I start counting Class 1was 2000 and something.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Okay, alright.
Yeah, so you finished your KCP,right.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
How was that?
How did you perform?

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Well, I did well.
Okay, of course I wanted moremarks.
How many marks did you get?
Well, I did well.
Okay, of course I wanted moremarks.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
But how many marks did you?

Speaker 4 (19:47):
get 394.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
That's pretty well, that's good yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
I was happy and sad for the 400, but I was happy.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
But if I think about it, you guys did your exams
during Matiangi, right?

Speaker 4 (20:03):
No, no Better.
Yeah, it no no Better, ali.
Yeah, it was Kaimeni.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
It was Kaimeni.
Now you've said Kaimeni ohactually the guy was also
Professor Kaimeni, right Fromthe University of Nairobi.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, before he became a minister.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah, before he became a minister he was a
professor.
Now I remember him actually nowthat I'm mentioning.
So how was that?
Because also I remember to someextent, especially the Matiangi
.
The reason I mention Matiangiis during Matiangi, when you get
394, you should be in the news.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Not done well.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
You should be in the news you should be making
Because grades were choked atthat time, the results were, for
some reason yeah, for both KCSand KCP it was drastic, really
Well.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, so, but you did pretty well.
So did you decide to?

Speaker 3 (20:58):
go St Anne.
St Anne is public or private.
Public, so you are like invitedto join.
St Anne's Was private, public,so you are like invited to join
St Anne's.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Was I?
Yeah, no, at first I was calledto Loreto, no.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Kimbu.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
And then now we switched to St Anne's, since why
?

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Or St Anne's is much better than Limuru?

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Yeah, I think so.
It is yeah, yeah, it's is muchbetter than Limuru.
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
It is.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Yeah, it's better.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
That I know.
I wish the other hope was here.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
She'd have something to say.
Which other hope?

Speaker 3 (21:35):
The one that we hosted yesterday actually.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
I have a namesake.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
She's in Jigwa doing, I don't know, Telecommunication
On the side side she's doing.
Now you see, loretto she'sdoing on the side she's doing
robotics, not robotics, actuallyRocket science or something.
Not rocket science, but rockets.
She's building rockets.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
She was in Loretta, kiambu.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, she gave us some interesting.
Limuru is different from Kiambu.
There's the Loretto Kiambu.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Yeah, and there's Limuru.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Oh, okay.
Then I agree with you.
Now you see you're not.
I hope you're limiting theinformation you're giving us, so
you're even concluding thingsthat are not there.
So please be as expounding.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Detailed Okay, all right.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
So I never knew there is a Roreto in.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
Nukia, don't worry how many dB SSD 500, 1 dB me, I
remember into details since Iwas nursery.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
That's me, of course.
But now when you tell me, and Iknow when you, since I was in
nursery- that's me, of course.
But now when you tell me and Ihave an idea when you finished
your primary and your nurseryand everything, I'm like, ah,
nowadays, maybe Gen Z is controlthe elite.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
This one is all giving Control the elite,
control the elite.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Anyway.
So you went to high school.
So so is it a girl's school?
Yeah, it's a girl's school.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
High school was very tough the one.
The worst, I cried.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Why did you cry?

Speaker 4 (23:20):
My mom was leaving.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
You had never been in boarding before I was but, but
this is high school.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, there are bullies.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Oh, you got moralized .

Speaker 4 (23:32):
Not really.
It was illegal in my school.
But, you thought, they thoughtyeah they thought that should
happen.
That was the sickest.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Can you guys get traumatized by the thought that
someone is going to monolize you?

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Plus, you're alone.
You don't know anyone.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
But you, I mean, even if you're alone, there are
several of you Right, the formones are You're still alone
because you don't know them.
Okay.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
And you have your bed 3x6.
3 by 6.
Say that again 3x6.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
3x, 6.
Say that again 3x6.
You guys used to have 3x6?
.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, like the smallest bed.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think they are 2 or something.
No, 2 and a half.
Yeah, 2 and a half Really.
The normal standard 3x6 bed isa good bed.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
It's not the high school one.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I'm like huh.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
No, I disagree.
Really, it was a small one.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh, the two by something.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
I feel like not even it's two.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Two by six or something.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Thank, you Like if you turn very fast, you might
find yourself out of bed On thefloor.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
So you guys didn't get monolized right.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
No, it was illegal Of course it was illegal.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Of course it is illegal, everybody is illegal.
But you get monolized.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
I think my biggest issue was people stealing your
thing.
That was the worst.
What I was telling these guysthat I could not relate.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
I told them when I went to Form 1, guys looked at
us like the new bill.
The new bill has arrived.
You know, what you guys aresaying.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
Shopping India like the new bill.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
The new bill has arrived.
You know what you guys aresaying.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Shopping.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Bill.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Camera.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
No, no, there's a thing that is going around with
the new generation about HiniMbaki or something.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
You have to relate.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
But the point is, when they saw the form ones,
they knew that the new shirtshave arrived.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
The new mattresses.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
You guys even lost your mattresses, everything.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
So they take and they give you the old ones, or how
does it work?

Speaker 4 (25:37):
You're left stranded.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
So they have to find your way, and it's taken
lifeline.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
No, no, like you'll go to class when you come back,
it's not there.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
So where do you sleep ?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, if I went in the morning, my bed was made.
I come back.
My bed sheets are just.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
And the way from ones make their bed really well.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Yeah, you'll just go and ask, like you'll go and ask
the mattress, then you'll begiven a very old one, but I
never lost mine.
I just saw others' experience.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Oh, that gives me a different perspective about you.
Why didn't you lose one?

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Not everyone was being stolen from.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
But the ones who lost what was there.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
You know, there's a profile, maybe like you know, A
common underlying factor.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
If the thief is in your house, they're going to
steal yours.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Your house was a bit displayed.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
Okay, we didn't have as much cases, yeah, as the
other houses makes sense.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
So what did you lose?
My shoes, my white canvas shoes, wow, and then and also my
slippers, my clothes day, daytwo week, one week two.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Week two, around week two, and you never saw them
again.
No, you see a FOMFO wearingthem and they're just walking
you know, like I can't wear thatfor your shoes.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
You just say okay, amanda.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Amanda.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Does it have like your admission number so you see
them moving with your?

Speaker 4 (27:00):
number.
Yeah, but they'll go wash it.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Like you'll just see your green marker pen.
You just know that's mine,that's mine.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
High school.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
You wait until you get to.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Form 4.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
And take someone else's.
Oh, you guys even didn't waitfor Form 4.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Form 2 is enough.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
You have suffered enough.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
You know we passed through the hell.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
No, okay, I didn't want to steal.
I can't wear somebody else'sclothes, okay, yes, I can't
steal.
Like I didn't revenge, I waslike it's okay, you just have it
okay, so you didn't start beingkind after university?

Speaker 3 (27:40):
in the university started theery, oh nursery.
Like you could come with lunchand food.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Yeah, like if you don't have.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Nice, nice.
I think maybe there's a clubthere.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yay.
But, yeah, that's cool that'scool.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
So here you were taught how many subjects in high
school Did you find that reallyeducation-wise, did you find it
a bit new?
Yeah, a transition.
Yeah, when high school was okay.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
I'd say I enjoyed some subjects and others were
just a load.
Okay, like I admire the other,like in admire the other system.
In US they have a very nicesystem where you specialize
early.
As for us, you just have a lotto do and you get to specialize
when you get to university.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Please tell us a bit about US.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
I feel like the system cultures you to do more
voluntary stuff.
You get to choose.
If you're a STEM person, anarts person, yeah, you get to
know.
If you're a stem person, anarts person, yeah, you get to
like know what you love earlier.
As for us, you're just therestudying every other subjects 14
subjects, then you drop, youhave eight, which I think you

(28:56):
should just have four at most.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, yeah, like what if you are given a chance at
that point?

Speaker 4 (29:03):
and you were told select four.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
Which one would you select?
Oh, for me, I enjoyed sciences.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
I loved computer.
I still did it, computer.
I do English because I lovedEnglish.
I do mathematics and maybe oneeasy subject.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
But sciences are three of them right.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yeah, there are three .

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Those are more than four already.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Okay, so far we've said three Science computer and
English and sciences.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
No, and just one science Physics.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah physics, Just physics.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
Yeah, Veget Swahili textbooks no, and just one
science physics, yeah, physics,just physics, yeah okay okay so
when you go to course, you'renot confused yeah what is
happening around.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
You guys are speaking , nice, but I can't understand
you know like the guys who go toschool nowadays and, by the way
, that thing.
Actually, I feel like ourculture is taken away, because I
feel like.
Swahili is the widely spokenlanguage in Africa after English
and guys.
Now this goes to sorry.
No offense about group ofschools.
As much as they are learningSwahili, they are more inclined

(30:18):
towards English.
Like someone actually can'tspeak.
Swahili Swahili like the normalSwahili that anyone could speak
.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
But I don't know if people decide to be like that or
it's the curriculum thatactually inclines them more to
speak more English because thesystem already teaches all other
languages in English, so youdon't expect a student to become
very fluent in Swahili, yetthey only learn it one lesson
per day, and English theyinteract with it in lesson per
day and.
English.
They interact with it in allthe other lessons, so I think

(30:48):
somehow how the curriculum isset up.
You're bent to know moreEnglish, whether you want it to
or not.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Plus, like in our school, if you spoke in Swahili,
you're given a disc.
Imagine what is a disc.
It's this?
Okay, in our school it was.
You see this last thing in thetissue?
Yeah, it's written.
I am a Kiswahili speaker.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
And then Arupi started.
So it's meant to shame you.
Yeah, yeah.
How was that?
You guys experienced that.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah, we had, though we had Kiswahili days when you'd
get the disc If you spoke inEnglish, then we had English
days when you'd get the disc Ifyou spoke in English, then we
had English days where you'd get, but the Kiswahili days it was
one Kiswahili day and fourEnglish days in a week.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
Ours was English 24-7 .

Speaker 3 (31:32):
So this is what used to happen.
You guys, even even I didn'tknow what is a disc.
The moment you said disc, Ithought about the DVDs and CDs
I'm like ah disc.
So we used to get what we usedto call, I don't know if it's
monto or monto, but it used tobe A bone.
So you know, boys being boys,we had to devise ways not to get

(31:57):
the monto.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
It was good for a boy to get a monto.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
It's not good to traumatize a young boy.
So if you gave me a monto, Inever got a monto, or I never
got a monto, though, but I'msaying it with all humbleness
but there are guys who you couldnot give the monto because they
would beat you up Seriously,like you can't how I can speak

(32:20):
whatever I want to speak.
And if you go and report them,yes, they'll get keen, but of
course after school, we willmeet.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
They know where to find you.
No, we are going home together.
Not even where to find you,unless you disappear.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
So I feel like all that experience is not good.
I'm not against punishment anddiscipline and all that, but
there are better ways, right,experience is not good, but I'm
not.
I'm not against, you know,punishment and discipline and
all that, but there are betterways right.
And I think also we grow withthat shame to some extent, like
even right now, and don't speakso much English.
People treat you some type ofway.

(32:59):
If English doesn't sound withsome accent, people will be like
you know, and this actuallygoes even beyond Kenya for your
information, even beyond Africa.
So I feel like language shouldbe language, but you should not
feel like because you don't knowcertain language and this,
actually, I learned late in lifethat you should feel ashamed,

(33:24):
right, because I'm seated hereand I'm thinking, okay, learned
late in life that you shouldfeel ashamed, right, because I'm
seated here and I'm thinking,okay, people who don't speak
Swahili, it's not their nativelanguage outside Africa, do they
really get punished becausethey can't speak Swahili?
Most probably not.
Even they don't care and youhear them speak Swahili.
You're like what?
You're murdering this language,but do they care?

(33:45):
No, I'm not saying English orFrench or German or whichever
language is not good All.
I'm saying is that all languagesshould be given same respect
for the reason that some of us,actually, if we don't know our
mother tongue, would we evensurvive as children?
Most probably not, becausethat's where we start, right.
You learn your mother tongueand then you're taught your

(34:05):
mother tongue is bad.
Yeah, so when you guysmentioned that, I thought maybe
I should share that piece ofinformation.
Yeah, so did you get thesediscs?

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Well, yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Most of the time.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Well, I think you always forget and just use
another language.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah, especially when you always forget and just use
another language.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, especially when you're missing that word.
Yeah, even now.
I know I've used Swahilisomewhere.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, and it's okay, it's fine yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
So did it lead you to love more English than Swahili
to some extent?

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Yeah, yes, yes, I'd say.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Subconsciously Ah if.
I don't speak English like whatSylvia actually says
subconsciously.
Like you know, all thelanguages are taught in English.
You know that's ingrained inyou, like if I don't learn
English then I might even failall these other subjects.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Right yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
I hope it was different For me.
I hope education and this is myhope, this is my personal
opinion like education, anysubject should be fun enough
that I would love to learn ittrue or do it the same way.
People do software and it'shard.
Software is not easy, propersoftware engineering is not easy
, but when you see somethingwork, oh my god it's worth it

(35:21):
you're like it was really worthit.
Right, it's already easy, butyou're not punished for not
doing it Because, at the end ofthe day, anything that you do
and we'll talk about that morewhen we get to the fun part of
the university I see you areanxious to get there.
And what will take you there isthat you'll find that some

(35:41):
things don't work when you wantthem to work, and it's fine.
But if you're patient enoughand you're consistent enough,
they eventually work.
Anything actually anything thatanyone thinks it's hard, it
eventually works.
So please take us to form two.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Okay, how was that?

Speaker 4 (36:02):
You can just give us the best and the worst part the
best, the best part is makingfriends now you have started
familiarizing yourself withpeople yeah, and now you're at
least not alone as much as youare in someone and also, okay, I
think you now know what youlike and what you don't like in

(36:22):
terms of subjects yeah, that wasa nice part um yeah apart from
the routine being so harsh, whendid you used to wake up?
Okay, should be in class by 530.
Then you'll go sleep at 11.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
oh, what are you doing between 7 and 11 in the
evening preps?
Are there teachers coming toteach or just self-learning that
?

Speaker 4 (36:45):
was introduced later.
Part 7 too yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
So this is the whole school, form 1 to Form 4.
5.30 to 11.
Same routine.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yeah, but if you're in Form 2 and Form 1, you can go
sleep at night, okay.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
If you choose to, yeah, if you choose to.
But if you want to learn, moreit's allowed.
But from three and from four.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Paul, sorry.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
You should not love sleep.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
Neither should sleep love you, whatever that means,
but rest is important the whatthe rest.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
So you feel like you guys are stretching.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, was this even for the weekends?
Yeah, pretty much the samething, just that.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Saturday we would go for an entire instead of
studying and guys would sneakfrom school.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
No.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
No one sneaked.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
If they did, we didn't know Throughout your four
years.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Then that's a good school.
Did you guys get everything inschool and stuff like that?

Speaker 4 (37:46):
no, we didn't have snacks.
I hope they changed that ifyou're in.
St.
Anne's your teacher advisedthem to add snacks.
It's unfair that you just eatbread and normal food.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
You should have something like what did you guys
eat?

Speaker 4 (38:01):
what was the menu bread in the morning and that
bread was never enough If youmiss blocks.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Half quota.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Quota Very tiny, Not quota quota.
Quota of the quota.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
That gives me some ideas about your chefs.
Like you know, you have to makemoney.
This quarter should not bequarter quarter, an eighth
quarter, that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Yeah, and then, like ugali githiri, always 24-7.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Lunch.
This is lunch.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
No, this is supper.
Supper was actually githirifrom Monday to Monday.
Oh wow, yeah, lunch wasactually very from Monday to
Monday.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Oh wow, lunch ugali.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Ugali or rice.
Now they alternate between thetwo Ugali during lunch.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, that's interesting With one piece of
meat and cabbage and a lot ofwater, a big one, though right A
big chunk of meat.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Was it big?
It was tiny, it was not so big,yeah, but it was a chunk of
meat just one

Speaker 3 (39:14):
just one.
Yeah, there was no special daylike when you could do maybe
rice, and you know chicken youguys used to do chicken.
No, I'm asking, oh, I'm askingthat I've been wondering chicken
pulao.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
No, okay, maybe during when the board chairman
came and he like spoils theschool, we'd eat smoky for
breakfast.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Just one morning.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
That one morning when you have not even sausage
smoking Smoky.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, Guys you can hear Gen Z's.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
No, no, no Lunch time .
That was just once the normalis no, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
It's fine Lunch time.
Normal, that's just the oh Ithought maybe lunch time and
pizza.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
The treat was only for breakfast.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yeah, okay, yes, because by one.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
they're out of that place, this place, people are
eating githeri.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yeah, they should all be staying around here, githeri
and rivolts.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Oh, who has had proteins?

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Only nutritious ones.
They're floating.
No wonder I had some personalquestions but now I get my
answers.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
You know, I hear those things actually contribute
to a lot of things behind thescenes have you ever heard that?
No, it's a story that you usedto have in boys' school, so you
might maybe be overthinking.
That doesn't, because that'swhy they neutralize it with
paraffin, you guys used to.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
They used to like Hidden secrets.
We don't know, but we couldsmell it ourselves.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Maybe it's for boys.
Probs I don't know, hope feltattacked.
So this is the way actually youguys did it throughout there.
But now I'm thinking about it abit, even if they added maybe

(41:04):
snacks Snacks is like popcornsand crisps cereals Canteen, at
least a canteen.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Our school didn't have a canteen.
No canteen, no snacks.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
You guys have had like clubs music drama scouts,
Okay, clubs yes.
But these are the guys who runthe canteen from the school I
went to.
They were not that creative.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
No, no, maybe, they added.
Maybe I was in a Buji schoolFor once.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
I feel like I was in a.
Buji school Because we used torun that and then the profit
used to run that.
Every time you're asking peopleto contribute to go to Borda
it's called Borda and Power.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Ah Borda and Power.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
yes, or maybe we want costume for music festival and
drama Okay.
Or maybe we want costume formusic festival and drama okay.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
the catch is I introduce most of those things
when I join the school the onewho introduced and some few
other characters but when I tellthat story one day, you know it
was not easy, and when Ifinished school they all died.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
It was done so interestingly that we used to
run the canteen and then theproceeds profit proceeds used to
support the clubs and they usedto be really awesome because we
could really manage most of theaffairs.
Even we used to pay patrons.
Can you imagine that ourteachers, we pay them through
the?
Canteen and I feel like itgives people some

(42:22):
entrepreneurial and I feel likeit gives people some
Entrepreneurial acumen, so it'sa good endeavor.
So when a high school teacherwas listening Don't allow people
to run.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Some of these things.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Because not only do they expose them to Management
discipline, how to deal with it?
Because there are people whoare not really straightforward
when they rent their canteen.
So when you did the books, youcould always find this guy is
not coming the canteen.
So when we did the books, wecould always find ah, this guy
is not coming this canteenanytime soon.
He's our member.
We love them, but with money wedon't.

(42:53):
So there are those things.
And then it also shows peoplehow to create opportunities.
Because these guys, we couldgive them feedback like don't
bring only bread, If you bringmandazis, you could buy.
If you bring mandazis, youcould buy If you bring maybe
crepes you could buy, but youdidn't really overstretch
because also when you talk aboutcrepes you could not get them
at wholesale price, and thenalso there's some things

(43:14):
actually that could really goout of hand, honestly, but we
try to mix and match.
St Hans, you're listening, eh.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
I'm speaking on behalf of.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Ops On behalf of a thousand or million others.
So that's something that Imaybe thought I should ask.
Even if we had these snacks andyou're still eating Githeri, it
didn't make sense.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
It does it supplements.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Like you guys will stop eating Githeri and start
eating snacks.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
No, We'll still eat Githeri.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Really Okay.
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Makes sense Other schools had so yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
Yeah, we could have.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
There's another school I was in, by the way, now
that you're talking and we usedto have a lot of Githeri with
weevils.
Weevils are proper proteins inhigh school that make someone
survive and get what fish?
Provides Omega 5.
So, luckily, we used to be in avillage where people plant

(44:21):
avocados.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Oh, wow, yeah that's lucky so we used.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
When I tell my story I don't know, maybe I should
anticipate people I feel like Ishould tell half of it or a
quarter, maybe something.
So we used to actually haveguys bring those avocados and
then sometimes they're not ripe,sometimes they're ripe.
So if they're not ripe we dothe thing of ripening them and
you know, we are learningchemistry, so we knew what to do
.
Application.

(44:45):
So polythene we know it hassome chemical that actually
ripens anything in a proper way.
That's why when you putsomething on a polythene paper
it ripens even quicker.
But also people in this.
Nairobi when I came to Nairobi.
I was not born in Nairobimyself, so I realized people
actually first struck thatprocess by adding proper

(45:06):
chemicals to fruits.
So, these are hack.
So, guys, if you see a fruitthat is evenly looking in color,
avoid.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
It's just too good to be true.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Avoid it all means that process.
I hope grandma is here to tellme there's a process actually
that is done in an industrystandard to cater for that.
But now you see, when someoneis doing it off the industry
they don't even know thebalancing of that and the
quantity and everything.
So you may end up consuming alot of chemical in your body.

(45:38):
So a proper ripened fruitshould not be even in color, it
should have some black spotshere and there and even when it
goes bad it should go bad evenly, not rotting in one place and
then the other place is rotting.
Not even ripe.
Even it doesn't look real.

(45:58):
Yeah, yeah, but that's storyfor another day.
So you get to form three andyou realize that you have to
choose some subjects.
Eight of them, you said yeah,and I choose computer because I
love it.
So you studied computer fromForm 1?

Speaker 4 (46:18):
Yeah, from Form 1, it was a compulsory subject, and
then in Form 2, third term, youchoose your subjects.
So I chose computer studies andthree sciences, yeah.
So I chose computer studies andthree sciences, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Computer, three sciences and two humanities or
another technique.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
Just one humanity.
No, I didn't even take ahumanity.
No, I didn't do it.
Okay, I just did theory.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Oh yes.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Theory is not humanities.
Is it really just that?

Speaker 2 (46:48):
No, it's humanity, Geography, history and Ciri.
So one of those, and then onetechnical computer, three
sciences and the threecompulsory.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Eight subjects yeah, how was that?
Did you like breathe the sighmoment?

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Yeah, it was definitely better.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
And you loved it.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
Yes, I particularly enjoyed my Form 4 KCSE project.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
What project did you do?

Speaker 4 (47:18):
We did an election system.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
For computer.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
Yeah, which language?
Of course, ms Access.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
I thought you would tell me JavaScript.
No, we just knew Pascal, Ofcourse.
Ms Access, Ah okay, I thoughtyou would tell me JavaScript.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
I'm like ah no, no, we just knew Pascal Santan.
When are we doing the hackerthough?

Speaker 1 (47:36):
When are we doing the hacker?

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, Because that would be really.
Maybe I foresee where highschool people do some proper,
proper projects.
Yeah yeah, but I feel like thisMS thing is too.
I think that people are beingbecause if someone is doing at 7
, 8 years old, they are buildingproper systems in Ukraine, or
some place in Russia.
Yeah, we're doing MS access andthe other one is studio

(48:01):
something.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Word Excel access.
Yeah, In high school, youhaven't even seen studio.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
It's just the parking my buddy actually actually my
buddy co-founder of FinPlus didVisual Basic.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
In high school?

Speaker 4 (48:18):
Yes, if they had the exposure that's very good, but
standard public in high school.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
It's just MS.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Microsoft Suite the most you go where you feel like
a UX designer, you've done.
Publisher.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Publisher is crazy.
You are a designer of designers.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
When you finish your KCS, you are like you guys are
good.

Speaker 4 (48:46):
Do you need a poster?

Speaker 3 (48:47):
It's just 3K, we can talk.
Me I saw some of those thingsin Masi not that we didn't have
computers, but they were notreally good.
People used to go and play pingpong for the rest of my time
they were not that powerful.
That's what I'm trying to sayit's like feature phone you know

(49:09):
ping pong right that's theright.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
I know that table tennis it's a game that actually
hits corners of the screen of acomputer the pool table, the
ball.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
You move it, then it's hit by things as it moves
around.
I feel like.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
That's the game, the default game.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
It was the default one in any computer and then
it's slow even in that machine.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
It's hit by things as it moves around.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
I feel like that's the game, the default game.
It was a default one in anycomputer.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
And then it's slow Even in that machine.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
it's slow, it's loading.
I loved engineering from dayzero, but I'm like should I
really?
Spend time there and me I love.
Anything I do should be fun.
Otherwise, it doesn't reallymake that sense.
I get bored so quick, though,so that's the reason.
Yeah, so you did your projectthat you loved.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
It was challenging but nice.
It was a nice challenge.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Yeah, were you doing it alone, or yeah, you do it
alone.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Yeah, and then the teacher supervises you and then
it's submitted to Nick.
Oh, but they grade it, and thenthe teacher supervises you and
then it's submitted to Nick.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
But they grade it and then it's like an agriculture
project.
Did you do agriculture I?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
did computer.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Oh nice.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
That option was there for us.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Oops, but anyway, that's what matters.
So that means you hasted itright.
Yeah, yes, that was one of theease, yeah yes then how was
others math sciences?

Speaker 4 (50:41):
I also liked them not that it was so easy to ease.
You also had to read spend sometime.
Yeah, it was not a walk in thepark.
You also had to do spend sometime.
Yeah, it was not a walk in thepark.
He also had to do a fair shareof the work.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Yeah, but you didn't do bad.
So what did you?

Speaker 4 (50:59):
do, I did well.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:02):
I did well, and then now I went to KC University.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Yeah, Jose, I see you have joined Welcome.
You can hear how much troublewe have here in terms of
questions and answers.
Doing well, what is doing well?

Speaker 4 (51:22):
Doing well is Okay, I got.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
It's KCA doing well.
Definition of doing well is KCA, Like you made it to KCA.
That's what I mean.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
Yeah to do software engineering, something I liked
Nice.
Now, this is where the funstarts.
Yeah, that is where we couldhave started.
Take us through.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
No because we don't assume that you started from
university.
Yeah, and there are people whohave seated there who don't even
like universities.
You see, the same way you'resaying in US people are like
doing some crazy stuff.
But you know you choose whatyou want to do.
There are people who choose.
You know I want to be asoftware engineer.
Why can't I start coding andforget about the rest?
Yeah, they do well yeah sothat's why we don't assume

(52:05):
everyone started from theuniversity.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Yeah, okay, so I started at KCA.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Yeah, please.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
Tell us about KCA.
You know, I know KCA as a Kenya, something accounting.
Yeah, Kenya College ofAccountancy.
But I know it's now KCAUniversity.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
K-C-A-U.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
KCAU.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Yeah, it's my KCAU.
Yeah, K-C-A-U, k-c-a-u.
Yeah, it's my K-C-A-U.
Yeah, it was charteredUniversity.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
So you joined K-C-A University.
How is that process like Do youjust show up, do you go pay
school fee?
Do you just go to lecture halls?

Speaker 4 (52:46):
How is that orientation like For the first
few weeks, or does it take weeks?
I've never been to KCA.
You receive the invite letter.
Then, after that, you go to theschool.
You pay the registration.
They give you an admission.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
At the school or the bank.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
School.
Okay, you'll pay via M-Pesa orthe bank.
There are two ways.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Yeah, we have two options.
I ask you, how much is theschool fee there?
That?

Speaker 2 (53:10):
you're paying using M-Pesa.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Well, now that you think about it, m-pesa expanded
that Right now.
I know you can.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Right now, I know.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
But since you told us , you know, back in the day, I'm
like this thing Okay, Like they.
I, I'm assuming when we went toKCU University the limit for
M-Pesa was 150?
.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
No, it was 299.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Now I have another hand Really.
But you're still in school, soit's not a surprise yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
So, yeah, you pay and then you join school.
Okay, I joined the Septemberintake and yeah, being in Okay,
I joined the September intakeand yeah, being in software
engineering, I was excited.
I didn't know what to expect.
Yeah, and then now my journeybegan.
My journey in tech began.
You didn't feel alone.

(54:04):
No, not as much.
Oh, and we also had.
It was during Corona, so notmany people.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
So you never even reported.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
No, you just go to get the registration.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Then you go back home .

Speaker 4 (54:16):
Yeah, because it's online.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
And then you buy a laptop and internet.

Speaker 4 (54:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
You guys never showed up for classes.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
We did online.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Oh, they were all virtual when you started.
Yeah, all the classes.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
There are no people who reported without laptops.
There are no people whoreported without laptops, or you
know.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
There are Like if you didn't have, well you'd share.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
And you also have labs, Computer labs, Okay, so
you could just go to school andattend them virtually no.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
If you didn't have, you'd defer to January.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Oh, there was that option.
Yeah, okay, january people cameback, or?

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Yeah, oh, yes so that should be 2021 or something
2020.
Then yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
January 2021.
You'd defer to January 2021.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then I think one thing Ienjoyed was the events that Tech
had.
The first event I attended wasMongoDB yeah, and it was in iHub
.
Then later there was theAtlassian event.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
This is in the first year still.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Yeah, first year Like the first holiday.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
How was that experience with MongoDB?

Speaker 4 (55:35):
At first it was confusing because you don't know
anything.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
You're floating through, but I think the
presenter asked you guys do youhave any questions?

Speaker 4 (55:45):
Well, you wouldn't have a question to ask, since
you don't know anything aboutMongoDB, but you could raise up
your hand, like.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
I'm lost.
Please explain a bit like whythis is happening or why, of
course, mongodb takes a documentapproach rather than a DB
approach whereby you have tablesand all that, or relational
table, so this is new to me.
Please explain a bit aboutdocuments or relational table,

(56:11):
so this is new to me.
Please explain a bit aboutdocuments, storing data as
documents.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
Well, I was very new to tech.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
The reason I'm asking this is because I know there is
another hope even in 2057, atKCO or wherever who will come to
a community.
I think then community will bepretty good, Like very good.
Even right now they're reallygood.
When I started, by the way,there was no communities Okay,
Maybe we are not giving peoplecontext here, so this event that

(56:41):
Taupa has mentioned was hostedby you, Astroly myself, and the
reason why I started communitiesback in 2010 or thereabout is
because there was nothing muchgoing on with that.
So just IAB was just startingand mostly most of the guys
there were senior engineers whowere working for an IT group

(57:03):
which is now Zuku.
I don't want to say Zuku, loudZuku, loud Zuku, and maybe
Safaricom, or you know thecompanies that were there back
in the day.
And so for me, I asked myself,I imagine this person who came
in and they are looking forknowledge, where we can sit down

(57:24):
and say, you know, I don't knowthis, maybe you know that and
then we can exchange thatknowledge.
But I'm assuming right now,even in 2050, someone will go to
the community, but they looklike everyone knows everything,
but they don't, but they justsit and relax yeah.
So I would encourage guys, likejust as much as you're not
asking something that's reallyobvious, because there's some

(57:45):
obvious questions, but there'sno obvious question because when
you think about it maybe youdon't know.
Then you'll be able to actuallyfirst track that journey.
That's why I was asking that,but for you it's just like what
should I ask?

Speaker 4 (57:58):
Yeah, okay, like you'd ask a wrong question,
maybe.
I think, the fear is what if Iask something that's not even
related to whatever he's talkingabout?
So the first event is prettyconfused.
You don't know what to expect.
You don't know what they'redoing.
They're just there to watch andlisten to people.

(58:19):
Yeah, so that was my firstevent.
And then I joined the Atlassiancommunity and it was a very
vibrant community.
I'd say that was my first itstill is.
Oh, sorry, it is, it is a veryvibrant community tech community
, yeah, where you're taughtabout very various tools that

(58:43):
Atlas Enhance, like Jira, trello, bitbucket yeah, all those the
first meetup.
Of course you don to know whatthey're about.
When you attend the second one,then you get okay, it's about
this.
And then the third one, you'relike okay, now.
I'm getting a hang of it.
And then now, as you continueto attend the events, they'll
just they make sense.
Yeah, they'll be like now.

(59:04):
I enjoy this.
Now, this is my place.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Oh, you found like Atlassian is your place.
I love to use.
Yeah, sure, so do you use some?

Speaker 4 (59:13):
of those nowadays.
Yes, I love Trello andBitbucket.
I also use GitHub.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
But you love Bitbucket, why don't you use?

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Bitbucket, because most people will send you
invites via GitHub.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
So GitHub is just more popular?
Yeah, but you prefer Bitbucket.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
I love both.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Politically correct answer you love both, but you
know you can actually use.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
If someone sends you a GitHub repo, you can still do
your thing on Bitbucket.
You know that right.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Ah, no Even.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
GitLab.
You can actually use GitLab Ifsomeone sends you some Bit right
?
Ah no, even GitLab, you canactually use GitLab if someone
sends you some packet.
Can you know, do your thing onGitLab and see, you know merge
or do whatever it is.
They're all the same actually.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
They use Git technology, which is basically
all the same.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
But, of course Bitbucket adds a couple of
things on top of it because it'smore corporate.
It's more like bucket adds acouple of things on top of it
because it's more corporate.
It's more like if you're reallyserious software engineer,
you'd go to the market but itdoesn't break a bone even to use
github or gitlab.
But most corporate code sits onbig market because it's, uh,
proprietary code.
Yeah, yeah, but github issynonymous with the open source.

(01:00:27):
You know that's when it's easyto like.
You know flow with it.
Yeah yeah so Bitbucket had somematerial.
You know, fish eye stuff.
Mabu, when are you talk aboutCICD and stuff like that?
Yeah, but I'm glad to hear youlove Bitbucket.
So what do you love aboutBigBucket?

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
Okay, I think I've just used it on one project and,
yeah, I think I just like thatwe could collaborate.
Actually, before meeting GitHub, I met BigBucket and yeah, and
then I was told there's alsoGitHub.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
So it's where you started.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Yeah, so GitHub, so it's where you started.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Yeah, so this is your first year, right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Yeah, this is first year.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
So did you start building projects around
Bitbucket, GitHub?

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
Yeah, I volunteered for a startup.
Yeah, it was something to dowith medicine.
Yeah, so we were building anapplication and all the devs
there were using Bitbucket.
So that's where, like I didn'tknow anything about Git.
So I was told go and installGit Bash on your laptop and I'm

(01:01:45):
like what is it for?
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
And then now I came to realize okay we are going to
collaborate using Bitbucket, soit sounds like you love to be
thrown on the deep end and thenfind your way right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Yeah, yes, that's the best way to learn.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
So when you went out and found out Git Bitbucket, how
was that experience?
Do you like research?
Look for documentation.
How was that?
Or tutorial video tutorial Idon't know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
Google.
You just ask what is Git Bash?
Then you write download GitBash and also tutorials.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
That means you're using a Windows PC or something.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
OS?
Yeah, why didn't you justinstall linux?

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
well, there's this disparity when people say ubuntu
, people and windows well, I'mgoing to designing, okay so you
can't take away windows from it.
Yeah, you love design lovedesign are you a good designer?

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
yes, okay, people say , I am someone says that it's
debatable no, like peopleactually say I'm good at what I
do you know, I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Side of you, I hear you are UX UI kind of person.
But yeah, I have a portfolio ofprojects I've done.
Side of you, I hear you are aUX UI kind of person but I never
.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
Yeah, I have a portfolio of projects I've done.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Please send to me after this or maybe later.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
I would love to see it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Because, you know, even in Nairobi I don't know if
I was telling.
Sylvia and the team that if youlook for really good designers
in this country, it's reallyhard Really.
Yeah, it's really hard, and whenI see someone like you who is
really interested in design,even the person who I know is
really good in design.
We started from nothing,actually, and now it's going

(01:03:42):
really well.
So, really, do I meet gooddesigners in this ecosystem?
But I know a couple of guyseither.
They are senior, you know.
You know outliers, yeah, andthey're not many, so it's a good
field to explore.
I know there's so many peoplewho can do a poster on Canva and
think they're designers.

(01:04:03):
I hope you know, that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
No, no, I actually use Figma, oh nice oh.
Figma, oh nice oh.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Figma.
Okay, yes, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
So, Hope.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
How was it?
You know, I'm waiting for thatexciting.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
KCA story.
Yeah, okay, so the excitingpart starts when I applied to
become a Moringa CampusAmbassador.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
This is in which year .

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
During my long holiday.
Yeah, I During my long holiday.
Yeah, I was in second year.
So at that point, yeah, when Igot accepted, my role was to be
an ambassador of the brandmoving out to my school, kca,
and I was really excited.
So, once joining, one thingthat was very, very exciting for

(01:04:49):
me is that I was with fourthyears, fifth years, and I was
like, wow, I'm just the onlysecond year here and, yeah, all
of them helped me grow.
And I'd say, like with all thedifferent tech communities I
belong to is because I've knownpeople from the Moringa Campus
Ambassador community.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Did you go to Moringa yourself?

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
No, I've not yet studied there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
What did you love about Moringa?

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
I love the courses.
I love that the devs that comeout from there are very skilled.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
The first person who I've met who says that, yeah,
they're very, very skilled.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
The first person who I've met who says that, yeah,
they're very, very skilled andit's a nice school.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Moringa, when we started, was a really
interesting story.
By the way, I'll bring theinitial co-founders of Moringa
in this podcast Audrey.
There are more.
Audrey is the one who is knownand I don't know if she is
around anymore, but anyway, I'lltry and bring one.
They have their own story, soI'll have them to tell it,

(01:05:59):
because also, as long as it maynot sound, so you know, rosy,
not a start up story, that isrosy by the way, especially in
Africa, people could learn a lotof things from those stories.
Yeah, yeah, some of them arepeople actually we have worked
closely with in the communityaspect and they're really good,

(01:06:19):
really really good, and it'sgood to see also Moringa still
thrive, even today.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Yeah, Something good yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
Are you still Moringa Basel?

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Yes, I am yeah most of the people know you from that
.
You really did it well.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I did it well and I still do it well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
Give us tips.
You know you're trying to.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
Of course, I'll share as I go on.
So once I joined I met verygreat people who introduced me
to communities, like my friendcalled Brenda.
She was very active in goingfor tech events like PyCon.
So when I had PyCon at first Iwas like what is that and what
do you guys do there?

(01:07:02):
I really didn't have any idea.
But then she knew and she waslike, okay, I can show you.
Then she showed me theMicrosoft Ambassador program.
Yeah, and I really knew, andshe was like, okay, I can show
you.
Then she showed me theMicrosoft Ambassador.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Program.

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
Yeah, and I really got to learn and now I know very
many communities.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
So what would you say really?
Community contributes to.
You know someone who is reallystarting things, someone who is
already ongoing and someone whoactually already you know they
are good at what they do becausethey contribute differently to
different yeah, I'd say onething about communities is that
you'll go there as a newbie oras a novice and you don't know

(01:07:40):
anything about anything in tech.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
And then now you're you know, like when you first
they just think tech is webdevelopment, websites and all
that you know.
When you go to tech eventsyou're're like, okay, now we
have AI.
Okay, we have product designers, we have those who do backend,
there's frontend, there's likeso many categories in tech and

(01:08:04):
now you're like exposed todifferent people.
You actually meet someoneworking in Microsoft, in Google,
someone working for the bigtech companies.
Others are working for startups, and like when you're at home
you wouldn't meet these people.
Just when you attend these techevents, that's when you get to
see and meet them and just hearabout their journey.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
So you're saying also it's good for networking and
also I've seen people share jobopportunities in some of these
events as well as you know gigs,you know someone is working on
a project they need, maybe adesigner, or they need someone
to do front-end, yeah, so you'dsay someone, rather than
spending a weekend, you know,hanging out, I don't know what,

(01:08:51):
do people you know for me,unfortunately, I don't know how
it is to, you know spend aweekend?

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
not doing tech.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Yeah, like if I'm not spending time with the
community.
I'm attending an event for real.
Until this year.
This is when, actually thisyear, actually to some extent,
it's not at the weekend weekend.
What do people do?

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
In university, anywhere, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
Because even the people who have completed
university and they take, butyou never see them in the
community.
Oh yeah, so you go to a partyand then the whole day you spend
sleeping.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
Yeah, and then what else do people do?
I have no idea.
So you also spend your weekendsin.
Mostly, I love spending time inthe community.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
And I feel like I learn a ton.
In the communities Also I meet.
Feel like I learn a ton in thecommunities Also I meet
interesting people and theconversations there are quite
exciting.
I would say yeah, actually.
it's just something that I'mthinking right now, like what do
people and I think I've everasked this one, like one or two

(01:10:09):
times in the community like youguys, when you're not here
because, of course, one or twotimes in the community, like you
guys, when you're not here,because, of course, even when
you're meeting, even if I spendall the weekends, uh, with the
community, either, you know, inNairobi or somewhere else.
So, people in Nairobi, I'm sureI'm doing something, yeah, yeah
.
Doing something else?
It's a question that I'mthinking about, but yeah, so if
the community is really fun,first day you'll feel like I

(01:10:33):
don't know anyone, I don'tbelong here, Like what should I
say, how should I introducemyself?

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
People are introducing themselves as
co-founders.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
Or CTOs Of course there are people who give
themselves titles but there areproper, proper CTOs.
There are people who are seniorsocial engineers somewhere,
people working for Microsoft andwhatnot.
So that should not scare you,because one day most of those
people are you know where youare.
It's a matter of saying, hi,I'm so-and-so, I'm starting up,
you know, and, by the way, someof these senior people love

(01:11:02):
people who are starting up,because when you have knowledge,
okay, everyone is not the same.
I'm not assuming everyone isnot the same.
I'm not assuming everyone isthe same.
But when you have knowledge andyou're part of a community,
most people want to share Mostpeople want to see someone else
grow so until you say something,people also will not say
anything.
So, try to engage, Don'tover-engage, of course.
Just engage the right amount,Like you know introduce yourself

(01:11:25):
, you know, try to sharesomething fun, and then from
that point you might exchangecontacts, you might know each
other, and then things startfrom there yeah well, I
attribute most of my thecontracts I've done that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
Put them to meeting people in the tech ecosystem
yeah and also the friends I have.
Yes, I think choosing yourcircle is the most important
thing especially in university,I have very great friends who
challenge me to become a betterperson.
Every time, even those timesyou don't feel like going for

(01:12:02):
that tech event, you havesomeone who will tell you you
know what?
Let's just go.
Let's just go see what willhappen.
And I think, because you alwaysdon't feel like going, because,
yeah, it's not all fun andgames, you also get to learn.
It's tedious, yeah.
So, yeah, having someone toremind you you know what, you
just come, you'll learnsomething.
You don't go back home.
They see you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Yeah, that has also been very important so the same
way, someone will tell you ah.
Sherele on Kiyambu road is thesame way Kiyambu road is where
now the Sherele happens so theguys who are not familiar with
the Nairobi culture, there isthis analogy that certain routes
or certain places will be theplace to go.
For you know, when you go toUganda or Rwanda or, but I don't

(01:12:47):
know, maybe I'm assuming, butyou go to Tanzania, there are
specific places since, I don'tknow, maybe 90s, that's where
clubs are, that's where you knowshere happens.
But in Nairobi it's peculiar,even with the mats.
Mats is matatus or publictransport.
There are routes that you knowthis year or this couple of
years is the route that theyhave the nicest, beautiful

(01:13:10):
matatus.
Same with clubs.
So there was a time CBD was aplace to go.
There was a time Westlands,where we are right now, was a
place to come.
There was a time Gong Road wasa thing used to happen there.
Then there was a time MombasaRoad used to be the place to be

(01:13:31):
Recently.
Dika Road was the place to beRecently not even a long time
ago, especially during Corona.
That's where the parties used tohappen.
Right now it's Kiambu Road.

Speaker 4 (01:13:40):
Right, I didn't even know.
Yeah, I mean, that's the case.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
Not that I'm a Macheret guy, but of course I
keep myself updated so thatwhenever I need to do a Macheret
which I don't know when, I'lldo it, but ideally it's a
peculiar culture.
And the reason I'm talkingabout this, which I think is out
of scope is that when you'redoing software engineering it's
the science and it's also theart you have to understand

(01:14:06):
certain patterns in certainareas.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
I'll give you an example.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Look at Facebook or TikTok they're both social media
, or even Twitter but, theyaddress different market
segments, Even the advertisers.
There you'll find there arecertain advertisers who are on
Twitter and not Facebook, or notTikTok?
I don't know if TikTok issupporting advertisement yet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
The others who will just?

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
advertise on Spotify.
So the same way you need tounderstand if because also
entertainment is a big thing insoftware engineering.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
This is what they call multimedia.
Like a unit, a big unitactually can do a project around
it.
So you need to understand thosepatterns.
Music itself is a software, asyou speak, Because right now
what happens is that people gocreate beats like not arrange
beats on a computer usingsoftware.

(01:14:58):
Then someone comes and recordsa vocal.
The vocal passes through whatthey call.
What is that name of thatsoftware which makes you sound
like Beyonce, that's a badexample.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Autotune, autotune, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
And then it really sounds more than certain way.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
And then now it's matched or merged with the beats
.
And then they give you tolisten.
If you don't like it, they canchange actually the beat, or if
you don't like something, youcan pre-record, or you can
record again until you get theperfect.
So ideally all these things arehappening, but what is
supporting the whole process issoftware.

(01:15:38):
So if you think about it in theindustry right now, they used
to say software is eating theworld, but right now I feel like
software is swallowing theworld to some extent.
So, you have to understand someof those concepts so that even
when you come out here, whichyear are you?

Speaker 4 (01:15:54):
graduating Next year, next year, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
You're able to build solutions that people can use.
Yeah.
So, I thought I should say thatbecause you've ever even done
entertainment.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
The guys who came there like first entertainment
what should we do?

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
I'm like, okay, maybe I need to take people slow and
understand that, any industrythat you think about, the
hospitality, transport, likeright now I hear the minister of
transport announce abouttelemetrics and you know
something else and cameras.
So for you to be able to do allthese things, you need things
to do GPS, you need to crunchdata, you need and toolbox.

(01:16:33):
Actually, is it toolbox orblack box or something?
The one that is in theairplanes?
What's the name of the blackbox?
When the plane crashes, whereyou get the data, what actually
transpired is a black box.
It is a black box.

(01:16:54):
It's a black box.
The guys who are listening cantell us the name.
We have Jose, we have Kawasaand there's someone their name,
which is in Japanese, and, ofcourse, we have Jolonge.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
International listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
Yes, yes, yes, jolonge, you can pick them up,
they can listen, they can hearyou, so you can say hi.
Oh, hi Hi Kenyans and fellowinternational listeners,
citizens there we go yeah, soideally there's that debate.
But I'm not saying you providethe hardware, Because you know,
in Kenya mostly, when you hearsomething like that happening,

(01:17:29):
there's a container somewhereSomeone can correct me if I'm
wrong hear something like thathappening, there's a container
somewhere.
Someone can correct me if I'mwrong.
In Kenya, what happens is thatbefore you hear a big project,
already most of the things havebeen figured out, so they are
looking for the market of thehead of the ship.
But where now the softwareengineers come in, and Juakali

(01:17:51):
Artisans and all these peoplewho actually do the last mile?
Number one is installation,maintenance and creativity, and
that's when our softwareengineers come in.
How can we be able now to buildon top of that software or
hardware to actually deliverlocalized solution?
For instance, maybe you have afleet of cars.

(01:18:11):
How are you able to integrateand make sense out of it?
Can you even actually use thesame toolbox to see how many
people are in the car at a givenparticular time?
Can you actually even installSDK, push on that toolbox for
people to pay and get your money?
There are so many ideas if youthink about it.
I don't see, but if you'rewaiting for you to get a tender,

(01:18:33):
you'll be disappointed.
This is just for anyone whowill listen to this.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
But go ahead, okay.
So then I joined the differentcommunities Microsoft, google
and one of them that I love isthat I am the co-lead at KC
University, and being there as aleader gives me the opportunity

(01:19:02):
to invite more ladies to theteam, since this tech ecosystem
is filled with the male, now weneed to add more females too, so
it's very interesting Now thatyou guys actually can feel free
to answer this.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
Why is that?
Why do you think that's thecase?
Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
I think it's because we think coding is such a hard
task and we also think thatwebsites and coding is the only
thing in tech.
We are not exposed to what theother various things that tech
has.
Yeah.
I think that's the main thingwe don't know about.
We don't have the exposure.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Yeah, and I think it's also a narrative that is
sold to us very early on, likewhen you get in and you say
you're a lady doing engineeringor you're a lady in tech,
everyone around is like wow, wow, you're sure you'll make it.
They're just those notions thatpeople have that have been bred
into us yeah, with time yeah sothere's that narrative already
even if you're good, you'lldoubt yourself.

(01:20:05):
You'll get there thinking, hey,but can I really do this, though
?
You doubt yourself right fromthe word go, and it isn't right
and it's a culture that shouldstop.
And it starts early on in verybasic things, but it shows up
when you're older and thingslike that and how they address
ladies in tech and how theyaddress just ladies trying to

(01:20:27):
strive in these fields that aremarked as male-dominated sectors
.
Yet, if you think about it, theladies in tech are doing very
well and they're very good.
But, now things are a bit moredifficult for them to get there
just because they have to fightthat on top of learning the
skill as well.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
That's a very common question.
That in English is will youmanage that cost or do you
manage that cause?

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Exactly, we all have the same brain, if you think
about it.
At the end of the day, we havethe same brain.
If you're smart, you're smartwhether you're male or female,
so you'll still grasp the sameconcepts.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
Okay, don't you think that there are ladies who have
had that opportunity and theyreally did not utilize it to the
maximum?

Speaker 4 (01:21:15):
I think one of the fears I think we have is also
imposter syndrome.
When you're there, you're likeI think I don't even deserve to
be here.
You're in a team of devs andyou're like 10 people, but
you're only two females.
You're like this is not myplace.
I'm just out of this place.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
So the one who perseveres is the one who
actually will really yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:21:39):
Maybe they get there and then they're like wow, I
really don't fit in.
I feel like yes they're goodalso.
Yeah, they're good, they'regood.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
So do you feel like also there's some ladies who get
there and then when they facethe first challenge, they
retract or they, like I wouldsay, they do the bare minimum
and then they end up givensomething like project
management or, you know, I wouldsay like a task or something

(01:22:08):
that is not so technical, whichalso again proves the notion
that ladies cannot see itthrough all the way.
Not that maybe you experiencethat much, but maybe, sylvia,
you can also contribute, but Iwould love to hear your input if
you have seen one.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
Okay, I have not seen one.
My mentor is a back-endengineer and she does it very
well.
She's one of the people I lookup to and she's really she's one
of the copilers in my career.
Like when I see her do it, Iknow I can also do it.
Yeah, so she's not deviated,she's good.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
And she's really good .
But there's another thing I'veseen with the lady engineers If
they're really engineers,they're super good, yeah, super
engineers.
If they're really engineers,they are, they're super good,
yeah, super, super good.
And I say this and sounds like,uh, you know, in case pulling
people.
But no, what I mean is thatI've seen is, uh, it happened
when I speak like this soundslike a mizazi, you know, I've

(01:23:07):
seen it actually happen likesomeone started push it.
When things are hard, they keeppushing it and they really
thrive for some reason.
I think, perseverance is veryimportant for you to really get
where you want to go, butsomething else.
But please go, you can do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
You think that there are ladies who don't really go
all the way uh, yes, there are,and at times I do not think that
it's a matter of they're notstrong enough to persevere.
It's a matter of they faced thechallenge just like any other.
But now this time they didn'tget the mentorship or they
didn't get the direction or thehelp Anyone they went to just

(01:23:43):
told them Maybe just trysomething else.
And you know, you can only facethat long enough until it gets
to a point where you're thinking, okay, let me for a minute
think about this.
And then when they take thatsort of step back, they get into
the quote-unquote lighter rolesthat you're talking about,
which they're still performing,showing that it's not that

(01:24:06):
they're not good.
They got.
Whatever role they're giventhey can handle it well.
But now the lack of directionthey're not really sure where to
step to next.
And it's good that sometimesthey really do pick up.
Maybe later they meet someonelike a mentor, like you have,
which is very important, and Ithink people should really get
that.
Especially if you're new in afield, it would be important
just to see where, to be able toeven get beacons or goals, to

(01:24:30):
know how to set them the rightway.
But yeah, once they get that,they can be able to get back on
track.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
Yeah, so now that you guys are speaking about
mentorship, I have to say Idon't believe in mentorship I
believe in apprenticeship, whichis much.
I find it much intriguing to bean apprentice like learn by
yeah, and that's how people usedto learn before education, the

(01:24:55):
one that you know formally.
If you wanted to be a carpenter.
Just you know.
Go to a workshop, see howthings are done.
You know holding things around.
You know, you see it and youlearn.
Same with doctor.
If you wanted to become adoctor, you went to the forest
look for.
You know the herbs, see whichone is poisonous, how do you mix
them.
You know packet them If maybethis disease is severe.

(01:25:18):
You see that happening and Ithink even doctors use that
until today Practicals.
They call it practicing doctoror something.
But when you finish I thinkyou're 50 or something you go
and spend some time in thehospital doing rounds.
They call them rounds.
So you actually start to nowsee what happens how to question

(01:25:39):
a patient, how to administerthe medication, and you see
doctors do it in real time.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
I think they start even earlier, when you're still
in campus.
They still go for rounds andhave to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So I find that intriguing thanmentorship, because and you guys
can speak about mentorship fora bit, because mentorship, I
find like if I was your mentor,I might end up telling you all
the good things.
To some extent, I might tellyou all the good things, and
that's how humans are mostly.

(01:26:12):
But if you see me doingsomething, you'll see where
things are not working and how Ifix them, and you get that
knowledge faster and it's moresticky than me telling you
something.
Also, you might end up askingthe wrong questions and of
course, if you ask the wrongquestions you get the wrong
answers.
But that's me viewingmentorship in different angles.

(01:26:34):
Also, I find that you might notreally get enough time to
really go through most of thethings, because of course, I'm
assuming I'm a mentor to someonebecause I still have the life
that is going on.
So I say, okay, we'll meet 30minutes every week, but
something will happen and that30 minutes I'm not available,

(01:26:55):
you're not available, or there'ssomething else that I need to
do that really is more urgentthan this mentorship and you
might not gain much.
So over time I realized thatalso there are people who really
come for mentorship but it'snot mentorship, and I think
you've seen a few cases recentlywhere some tech bros were

(01:27:17):
accused of things that I don'tknow if they were true or not,
but even when I read what washappening I said, okay, I was
almost like I told you, butrarely do I tell people how to
handle things?
Because of course there are somany underlying factors that I
see with especially softwareengineering that actually could

(01:27:41):
go wrong than right withmentorship but ideally, that's
my take.
But you guys tell me how didyou get a mentor, how was that
process and how do you handle iteven better as a mentee and a
mentor?

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
Okay, so for my mentor one thing she is very,
very present.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
And I love that you're saying she Do you have a?
He mentor?

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
So a mentor has to be the same gender.

Speaker 4 (01:28:08):
No, we are not restricting, because I know
there are good people out therewho are willing to help without
asking for asking for cashfavors.
I don't know for extras.
Hope it's trying to bepolitically correct.

Speaker 3 (01:28:27):
This is why we tell it the way it is ok, yeah, mine
is.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
She's Mbui and she's very good at what she does.
She is a back-end engineer.
Okay, her story inspires me andwhen I hear about somebody
else's experience, I'm able tosay, okay, so this is how you do
it.
Help me also do it as good asyou did so that.
I don't like.

(01:28:52):
You know you could get to likethat, yeah, and you're like ah,
because you're like I have, Ihave all this work to do.
Just tell me where it's goingto.
I want to like where will hetake me?

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
But now, having high in my life, she's like okay, if
you face a challenge, this iswhat you do.
When you encounter this, trythis.
Even before I came to thepodcast, she was like I know you
feel like you don't deservebeing here, but they called you
because you have something tosay and yeah, like I feel like
she's very, very, veryfundamental in my life.
Yeah, she's listening, thankyou.

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
Yeah, but they would love to hear from her.
If she's available, we don'tmind highlighting her.
Oh, okay, Okay, I'll plug herso how long has she been doing
software engineering?

Speaker 4 (01:29:43):
Since 2019.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
Okay, Okay yeah, we can try and see if we can.
We're also trying to highlightmore ladies who are doing
something and, by the way, Ihope you are doing a lot of
things thank you both personallyand you want.
Okay, let me say this, soyou're.
You're one of the mostconsistent member community
member I've seen, both inatlassian mongol db and africa

(01:30:07):
stalking.
You're always trying to buildsomething.
Even when you're building,you're making it look fun and
all that and encouraging others,by the way.
So we find that really uhsomething positive to talk about
yeah uh, but yeah, please talkabout about mentorship.
Okay, before you do, do youlike arrange sessions where you

(01:30:28):
have these, or is this randomcalls and random emails and
random?

Speaker 4 (01:30:31):
chats.
We have a bit of both.
We have random and we also havelike sessions that we've.
You have like topic we talkabout and she's like okay, so
for this we'll do this and this,especially when it comes to
okay.
One thing that I've really beatbecause of her is
procrastination.
I used to like put off tasks,but now I'm happy to say that

(01:30:54):
she's helped me and.
I'm able to do things when Ineed to get them done.
Wow, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
I know most of engineers are lazy.
You know that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
Lazy, that's such a strong word.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
Yeah, I mean they wait for the last minute.
Yes, that's laziness, for lackof a better definition.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
But they are good.
It's because, even when theyhave not done them, mostly they
are figuring out the easiest wayto do it.
In their head.
Actually, they are figuring outwhich is it but ideally, they
come out as lazy.
And, by the way, you cannot bea good engineer if you don't
have some form of laziness.

Speaker 2 (01:31:36):
Or what we call progress in the share.
Ideally, as an engineer, you'refinding more efficient ways to
do things, and you only do thatif you're lazy, because you want
a faster way.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
Yeah, an easier way.

Speaker 3 (01:31:46):
So we're saying it and, by the way, what we're
saying is that being lazy is notbad.

Speaker 1 (01:31:53):
Well, define lazy yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Until until you let it, nothing is bad.
Actually, there's nothing thatis bad until you overdo it or
you let it do you.
So if lazy drives you, anythingyou do is driven by laziness,
then it might not lead you togood results.
But if you're just, you know,you feel like maybe I should not

(01:32:17):
do this right now and I can doit maybe within an hour, or I
can do it within five minutesand you end up doing it really
well, it's fine.
At the end of the day, whatmatters?

Speaker 4 (01:32:28):
Getting things done, but you know not always that
you'll come and then do itperfectly.
Of course, you'll submit itlate.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
Yeah, laziness is not the best term or it's not the
best way to coin it.
Maybe, just if you think youcan do it in an hour, why wait
for an hour to the deadline?
Just do it today morning,finish it in an hour, then
proceed.

Speaker 3 (01:32:49):
Is that the most classical way of you guys doing
stuff Like every single time?

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Well, as often as you can do it as soon as possible.

Speaker 4 (01:32:59):
Like, you'll not always feel motivated to get
things done.

Speaker 3 (01:33:03):
Like.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
I'm here, I'll do it Most of the time.
You're like okay, let me justgive it time.

Speaker 3 (01:33:07):
No, it's debatable, but ideally what I find that is
consistent with the good goodengineers's like you know we'll
do it Not that we won't do itand we'll do it really well but
you know the best is theplanning part of things, which
might look like there's nothinghappening.
But of course I know why she'sdoubting what I'm saying.

(01:33:28):
It's because I like thingsgetting done as fast as possible
.

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
But, of course, but you're preaching.
No, no, I'm not preaching.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
Oh, you guys are hearing like I'm saying people
should be lazy.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
No, no, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying you
have to strike a balancebetween laziness and getting
things done.
If you do that, it's okay, youknow.
And also give realistic toyourself deadlines, that
actually okay.
If it goes beyond this, nowthis is laziness.
This is procrastination.

(01:34:03):
Procrastination, but also findan easier way of doing this, and
you might choose actually, letme do it in an hour and then
spend the rest of the timehaving good time or learning
something new.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
Which is allowed?

Speaker 3 (01:34:17):
That's why now the difference of really really good
engineers and good engineerscomes in, because the really
really good engineers they do itin an hour and then they're
learning other things.

Speaker 1 (01:34:28):
True, so they figure out.

Speaker 3 (01:34:30):
Okay, let me flip this coin rather than waiting
and sometime I might maybe belearning.
Why can't I just do this?
Because I know how to do it andthen spend maybe the rest of 4,
5, 6, 16 hours learningsomething new.
So what was your experiencewith mentorship?

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
first of all, my take on mentorship would be I think
mentorship also involves thehands-on part, so there's
apprenticeship in mentorship, inmy opinion.
So, especially if you have amentor in your field, someone
who is doing something in linewith what you're doing, it also
means that they hold youaccountable because they know
the the goals that you areachieving or that are in your

(01:35:11):
line in your field.
They also hold you accountablein the technical part.
So it's not just maybe that'swhat made you say that
apprenticeship is better becausementorship to some extent or to
some people can just sound likestorytelling and just
encouragement.
That is part of it and it's abig part of it.
But it also means that if youhave a mentor who's in your

(01:35:31):
field and is doing the sametechnical thing, it's a big part
of it.
But it also means that if youhave a mentor who's in your
field and is doing the sametechnical thing, it's a lot
easier because they hold youaccountable with your deadlines,
with your skill sets.
If you're not growing, they canactually call you out and say
you were working on this projectlast month.
You're still working on itright now.
Okay, where are you stuck?
Can we do a peer coding sessionCan we have tomorrow afternoon
to go through your code and seewhere the problem is?
Because why are you facing anerror one week, still having the

(01:35:52):
same error right?
So in my opinion, mentorshipshould involve the
apprenticeship itself.
So it's much better get amentor in your field, your exact
line or the line you want toget into, and have them take you
through just nuggets on whatthey have learned, because it's
easier to learn from theirmistakes.
Don't make the same mistakes,true, true, make your own,
because everyone will makemistakes.

(01:36:13):
Make your own Then for yourmentee.
You will tell them, theirmentors, their viewers, they
will make their own.
So you can imagine the peoplethat will have down the line, 10
generations down the line.
Yeah, whole new set of mistakes.
But that's how it should work.
They should guide you, tell youtheir mistakes, have the
encouragement part as well ashave the technical bit in touch
very nice, very nice.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
Uh, you know, so you're part of uh.
Women in africa's talking womenin tech yeah, yeah, how is that
?

Speaker 4 (01:36:48):
um, that's very fantastic.
Um, as you've heard, I love.
Um showing like women that theybelong in this space because
not everyone feels like theybelong.
So that's one place.
I also felt like this is reallynice.
Women are now joininghackathons, we are trying to
grow, we are emulating those whoalready are, and it's such an
amazing space.
We always do it every Wednesday,every last Wednesday of every
month, and it's an amazing timeto see what people will build.

(01:37:11):
Some come there without ideasand by the end of the hackathon
they have mind-blowing solutionsand that's awesome to see have
you met some really geniuspeople?
And also like if you seesomeone who's more skilled than
you, you're like wow.
I want to get there too.
I want to give you motivationto continue with the coding,

(01:37:36):
with whatever you want to growat.
It's also a very nice place tochallenge yourself so that
you're not always in yourcomfort zone.

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
Yeah, it's a very important space to be at so
maybe just to tell people whatexactly is this africa's Talking
Women in Tech and what arethese events on Wednesday?
Yeah, what exactly.
If you could explain what thecommunity is about, how would
you coin it?
And then, yeah, what are thebest things?
Maybe best two things or threethings that you've had in the

(01:38:07):
community so far.

Speaker 4 (01:38:08):
Okay, okay.
So every last Wednesday of themonth we have a hackathon.
You'll be given a title, so,like, the last one was maternal
health, so you're buildingtowards that and you use the
Africa's Talking APIs, which are.
SMS, ussd, voice and airtime.
When you come, you just havedifferent groups building

(01:38:31):
towards different solutions.
So as a group, you ideate, thenyou come up with a solution,
you code it, you try to fix thatproblem you've identified.
Then one thing I'd say about itis that the best part, there's
amazing food.
Yeah, very amazing food.

(01:38:53):
Yeah, very amazing food.

Speaker 2 (01:38:55):
Shout out to the kitchen people.

Speaker 3 (01:38:59):
Keaton or the chef.

Speaker 4 (01:39:00):
The chef, everyone who does that.
Yeah, amazing food, amazingfriends.
You get to expand your networkand that's your network.
So, yeah, it's very amazing tosee women come up with great
solutions which will beimplemented to be startups and
maybe little organizations yeah,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
So you can join as a beginner, or I have to be a
professional.
10 years of experience under mybelt beginner, very beginner
friendly if you don't knowanything to do with code.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
You come like join the next one.
Also, don't give up about that.
Join the next one.
Within those months that you'veattended, you will see the
growth.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
So the secret is in consistency, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:39:44):
Don't just attend one and you're like, ah, that place
is boring, I didn't do anything.
No, join the next one, so thatyou're challenged to even build.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
And when you're there you actually code.
You don't just sit and watch.

Speaker 3 (01:39:56):
Tell them, when you're there you do your best,
or you guys eat stories, youknow?
I'm curious to ask that.
No, we actually code.

Speaker 4 (01:40:04):
And then we ask like, if you don't know if you're
getting a certain error, youjust raise your hand and then
someone will come show you howto debug.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's Sylviafor you and Lois yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:19):
Sylvia's getting like .
Why are you not saying Sylviaand Lois are always there?
And they're part of AT you know, engineering, full stack, you
know.

Speaker 4 (01:40:30):
Yeah, they will not struggle.
There's some members who havereally some sort of you know,
engineering full stack.
You know, yeah, you'll notstruggle yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:40:34):
There's some members who have really some sort of
experience, or so they help eachother, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:40:40):
Yeah, there are those who are really good at it.
There are those who havealready consumed the APIs before
, so they know what you shoulduse, like how to make your API
know your code live, like usingng-rock and all that.
They also have experience, soif you just go to them, they'll
just help you out.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
Just like you eh.

Speaker 4 (01:40:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Or she should say someone like me and I can see
you, so yeah, you should not bestruggling, actually your mentor
.

Speaker 3 (01:41:10):
If they hear this, they'll be really proud.
I did something.

Speaker 1 (01:41:13):
You can mentor someone in like, yeah, you
should not be struggling.
Actually, your mentor, if theyhear this, they will be really
proud I did something.

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
You can mentor someone like five years down the
line, they are still the sameyeah.
And big up to Wambui.
You said it's Wambui.

Speaker 4 (01:41:24):
Yeah, it's Wambui.

Speaker 3 (01:41:27):
You guys should also take mentees, or something.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
Yeah, sure, that's one thing I want to do First
years when they come in.

Speaker 3 (01:41:35):
No, even they can be four years.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Okay, yeah, peer mentorship.

Speaker 3 (01:41:42):
As much as someone is interested.
There are people who areinterested, but also even
especially with ladies.
I'm not a lady, but I seeladies who have really great
potential but they're justholding back, and that's
actually why we created Women inTech at AT, because ladies used
to come for the main, whichhappens the last Wednesday of
the month, thursday LastThursday of the month.

(01:42:04):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
Wednesday, Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
So last Thursday of the month, and they always even
when people presented in frontthey were like, let me remain.
I don't know, for whateverreason, and of course I can't
assume People go through a lotof trauma and that's why I
actually go like from day zeroso that you understand that
journey, and someone also couldsay oh, maybe that's where.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
I am in life.

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
And actually I can get here.
It's part of that Maybe that'swhere I am in life and actually
I can get there.
It's part of that.
So ideally, anyone who is readyshould be able to do that, and
of course, we welcome even theones who come on Women in Tech
Akadon to the main Akadon, andfor us it's just pure, just,
straight code.
Just solve problems.
We don't care if you are a ladyor a gentleman for the open

(01:42:53):
hackathon that's why it's calledopen it's for everyone, but of
course, even businessentrepreneurs who want to
transition.
As long as you come with yourlaptop and you don't spend the
day just watching others, you'rewelcome.
Come and show something.
The first day you might justend up installing and then
trying something.
The next time maybe you send anSMS or maybe send airtime or

(01:43:15):
you know,buy data the next time, maybe
you'll find yourself building awhole logic of doing that and
automating some of thoseprocesses.
So, it's a journey and youunderstand that as long as
you're committed.
Now what can we do more forladies?

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
Okay, the first thing would be, and not just in the
context of 80 women in tech.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
Like tech ecosystem, because I've seen a lot of women
in tech.
Come and go yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:43:43):
Okay, number one is to make them feel like they fit,
because, okay, let me tell you,in the open hackathon, when you
go there, the pressure getsworse.

Speaker 3 (01:43:53):
That's how engineering is.

Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
Yeah, for sure I know , like for sure it's not as easy
, but like have this space whereyou don't have to feel the
pressure.
You go at your pace, you'llstill get there.
The point is growth.
So don't see, someone is sogood and then you're like me

(01:44:14):
with this bad skills of mine,why should I even go and present
, why should I even go and trybuild?
Some people feel like I'm notadding value, so let me just
stay away from it and findsomething else to do.
So I think, making them feellike you belong here.
You'll still grow and you'llget to that place where you want

(01:44:35):
to get.
Yeah, don't feel discouragedthat someone else is better than
you.
Still grow, yeah, and good foodvery important no

Speaker 3 (01:44:46):
food is very in africa.
Food is very important.
You cannot joke around withfood across the 54 countries.
Actually it has always been aculture if someone comes to your
home we didn't ever come withfood, but that's on us, the
first thing is that you welcome.
With food you eat, you drink,you're okay.

Speaker 1 (01:45:06):
And then they ask you okay, are you?

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
spending some time with us, and then you can say
what brought you.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Even if you're bringing bad message at least
you should be full Before yougive them, even if they decide
now.

Speaker 3 (01:45:19):
Okay you know that people used to bring really back
in the day bad, bad messagefrom the neighboring kingdom.
You know, in Africa before youused to have kingdoms.
What do you guys know aboutthis?

Speaker 2 (01:45:32):
We have read it History you used to have
kingdoms.

Speaker 3 (01:45:34):
I don't know if you guys know about this.
We have read it.

Speaker 2 (01:45:36):
If you check your history, it was just kingdoms
Social studies.

Speaker 3 (01:45:38):
And I think in Uganda can give you that picture, in
Nigeria can give you thatpicture.
Even in Kenya here, and youused to be sent to go and say
that you're coming for war.

Speaker 1 (01:45:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
And now you see they have to kill you because they
don't want you to go back andsay, no, you already said you
were coming to kill you.
That's essentially what yousaid, right.

Speaker 4 (01:45:59):
So the messenger will just die at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (01:46:03):
That's where the proverb don't kill the messenger
came from.
Oh, Because, now imaginesomeone comes and tells you.
You know what?
This is a message.
But ideally they will feed you,they will welcome, even you
will be given a wife if youdon't have one and life is good.
That's how Africa needs to be.

(01:46:24):
So imagine you are bringing themessage of war and you have
been given a wife.
You see how that narrativechanges back.
Like now you're related, youcannot kill your relative.
So Africa used to be beautiful,more than it is right now, in
terms of culture and everything,and you don't actually talk
about these things openly.

(01:46:45):
You know Africans wereprimitive.
No, africans used to even havetheir medicine or their
herbalists yeah, medicine.
Everything used to even havetheir medicine or they have
herbalists, yeah, medicine,everything used to work properly
actually.
Maybe, even better than.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
I feel, like like.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
Even right now, we are more stressed than before.
But, anyway, that's debatable.
There's someone who's likewanted to go to Mombasa, but
what would you?
Sufficient, or I don't knowwhatever.

Speaker 1 (01:47:11):
You can sustain yourself, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:47:16):
I want that Africa.
It used to happen and if youread your history back the day,
you see that.
So ideally would you think thatif every company started, you
know, women in tech would bebetter off than we are right now
.

Speaker 4 (01:47:34):
Yeah, that would like encourage women to know that
there's a place for them.
Because, currently, engineeringis for men and people know that
Even in the classrooms we areusually the minority.
Every time, we are usually theminority and the male
perspective seem to get like tounderstand it better than we do.

(01:47:56):
But that's not the case.
Just try it out, it's foreveryone.

Speaker 3 (01:48:02):
You know, one of the best lecturers that I had in
terms of explaining the conceptsyou know, making them look
appealing was a lady.
She used to teach us automata.
She's still there actually.
I think she's still a professoror something, or a doctor.
Still A doctor is referred as aprofessor anyways.

(01:48:22):
She really used to make itreally appealing Some of our
units.
I used them.
She made it really appeal andthat's why, for me, as much as I
say engineering, everyoneshould come ready.
I'm that guy.
And I think this is whatactually drives so many so many
ladies out there.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
I'm not going that way.

Speaker 3 (01:48:45):
Maybe you're not ready, Maybe what you say the
syndrome, the imposter syndromekicks in Like ah maybe then I
don't think I'm good, but Ibelieve that if you come with a
mentality that it's justengineering and I want to solve
problems, then you'll actuallyunderstand why you should
actually be there and learn anddon't expect special treatment

(01:49:05):
or that.
But, of course, what you'resaying seems that there needs to
be a catalyst platform to makesure that their mindset shifts
things in standard.
There needs to be a catalystplatform to make sure that.

Speaker 4 (01:49:15):
Their mindset shifts yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:17):
So Hope.
What else happened at KC?
You know.
You said we talk about KC for abit, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:49:25):
Yeah, kc is a very interesting university.
I love that.
It has very great programs.
Actually, the first hackathon Iattended was organized by KCA
and we built a website to helpentrepreneurs get mentorship.
Yeah, so that was my very firsthackathon and it was very

(01:49:47):
informative.
That's when I got to know that.
Wow, I'm very interested indesigning.
Yeah, it's a place where, likethat's when I got to know that
wow, I'm very interested indesigning.
Yeah, it's.
It's a place where, if younetworked and learned, you'd be
like a very great developer or avery great designer.

Speaker 3 (01:50:04):
Do they offer computer science?

Speaker 4 (01:50:07):
It's called software development, and then there's
applied computing and forensics,so that's what you deal with
software.
Yeah, those three.

Speaker 3 (01:50:17):
Yes, those three Nice , nice, nice nice.
So how is your experience thereso far?
In terms of, you know, besidesthe school you know, and then
the career club and everything.

Speaker 4 (01:50:27):
The life, the life.
Well, it's very fun if you havethe right friends.
Very, very fun.
Oh so they are wrong friends inKC Define wrong Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:50:43):
It's close to Kuiva, which is the other the USAU club
is called what.

Speaker 1 (01:50:49):
Memphis.

Speaker 3 (01:50:49):
Memphis.
It's close to Memphis.
Okay, roy Sambu is just aroundthe corner.

Speaker 4 (01:50:54):
It's right there.
No, then, mirema, not wrongfriends.

Speaker 3 (01:50:57):
The Nigerians.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
No, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:51:01):
Madari, Actually Madari Hospital is just two
blocks, three blocks.
But anyway, I'm just findingways to, like, define wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:51:11):
No, I don Just finding ways to define wrong.
No, if they don't add value toyour life, I think that's just
wrong.
Depending on what value is due.

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
So you have to define your value, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:51:24):
To some people going to Mirama, or whatever you say,
it's not wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:51:30):
But to most people it is.

Speaker 4 (01:51:33):
It depends.
You just have to most people,it is no it depends.

Speaker 3 (01:51:35):
You just have to know To you, is it wrong?

Speaker 4 (01:51:39):
No, I don't choose any side.

Speaker 3 (01:51:42):
You have friends who go to marriage.

Speaker 4 (01:51:44):
I don't feel judged.

Speaker 3 (01:51:48):
So you have friends.

Speaker 2 (01:51:49):
You don't want to break friendships here?

Speaker 4 (01:51:51):
No no, no, I already know my my circle.
My circle is well defined, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:51:58):
Makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (01:52:00):
So it's personal Wrong is personal.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
Very personal.
You define wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
Okay, please.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
Alright Now, as we are winding up, the conversation
has been heavy and interestingall through.
We've gone through your journeyright from kindergarten Sorry,
kindergarten.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Kindergarten, the accents there are some letters
that are not pronounced out loud.

Speaker 4 (01:52:34):
Oh yeah, it's kindergarten.

Speaker 2 (01:52:36):
It's kindergarten.
I have learned something new.

Speaker 3 (01:52:39):
No me, I'm learning, so don't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:43):
From kindergarten to primary, to high school and now
at KCA.
Maybe what is your maintakeaway or your parting short?

Speaker 3 (01:52:52):
Before that, I have like maybe two questions.

Speaker 2 (01:52:54):
Alright, then proceed with the questions.
Then we'll wind up the recentones.

Speaker 3 (01:52:59):
She keeps receiving swag left and right.
She's always in a promotional.
T-shirt Wow Tell us more aboutswag.

Speaker 1 (01:53:10):
You also want to receive swag once in a while.

Speaker 4 (01:53:13):
Receive it would be nice.
Well, I think, paving way fornew techies in communities, I
think that's one way, and alsobuilding in public, that's
another thing contributing onopen source no like.
If you're learning something,share it via your LinkedIn or
via.
Twitter.
Just tell.
If you're learning something,share it via your LinkedIn or

(01:53:34):
via Twitter.
Just tell people what you'redoing.
Don't be very quiet so thatpeople know, ah, I know of a
great designer.
I saw her posts, her designsyesterday.
Yeah, build in public.

Speaker 3 (01:53:46):
I think the other whole post will mention
something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:53:48):
Yeah, building in public.

Speaker 3 (01:53:50):
That's like the new Gen Z technology, Because you
see when you hear somethingtwice or something like that,
yeah, building in public.
That's like the new Gen Zterminology, Because you see
when you hear something twice orthrice like mambo ni matatu.

Speaker 4 (01:53:59):
Mambo ni matatu yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:54:01):
You build in public, you receive swag and be part of
the community.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (01:54:08):
Yeah, building in public has numerous benefits.
I can attest to the people Ilooked up to in communities.
They're doing great things andthat gives you exposure.
People get to know oh, I knowof an IoT engineer and then they
now know okay.

Speaker 3 (01:54:25):
Whenever there's a gig, your name actually pops.

Speaker 1 (01:54:27):
Yeah, it pops, up.

Speaker 4 (01:54:28):
Plus you continue growing, because I don't believe
you'll just post anything.
You'll not post mediocrecontent, you'll strive to be
better.

Speaker 3 (01:54:39):
What is your take about AI?
You know Chargy, pt andshenanigans.

Speaker 4 (01:54:43):
I love AI.
I think it's a very brillianttool.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
Did you say AI?

Speaker 4 (01:54:50):
I said AI.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
The way you say it it's really interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:54:53):
It's okay.
I said AI.
No, the way you said it, it'sdifferent.
No, it's okay, it's all right.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:54:58):
I think, the English is paying off the St Hans
English.

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
Wow, I like the way you said it.
For a moment I thought I'm in.

Speaker 3 (01:55:07):
California, really, yeah, thank you, thank you.
But by the way, way, guys, justthis aside, interacting with
the intellectual people, theyare not the guys who will have
the most of the accents.
Yeah, pardon that's a lighternote.
Okay, I was explainingcommunity.

Speaker 4 (01:55:31):
Yeah, one thing.

Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
I love about it.
I was explaining one community,yeah one thing I love about it.

Speaker 4 (01:55:37):
I learnt about GitHub Copilot the previous week and
it's really it's an amazing tool.
It helps you predict code,understand the code you've
written, so it makes work easier, yeah so now that it's paid,
for what do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:55:54):
Do you think it's a barrier for people to really no,
there's a student park, by theway.
Yes, very free, very free, butyou know, all of us are not
students.

Speaker 1 (01:56:03):
Oops, oops, and we love to test things.
We love to test things.
Yeah, we love free things.
By the way, I told GitHub thiswhen they introduced it.

Speaker 3 (01:56:13):
You know it was not available.
Is it the GitHub or the opensource paid?
You know right now you can getpaid to go to the open source.
You can say I'm available forXYZ?
Is that a program?

Speaker 2 (01:56:27):
You're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:56:28):
GitHub Students.

Speaker 2 (01:56:29):
Developer Pack.
So I'm talking about now thepaid part.

Speaker 3 (01:56:31):
Now that you're talking, about GitHub Students
Developer Park.
Yeah, the Developer Park.
So I'm talking about now, thepaid part, now that we're
talking about GitHub, you knowyou have to share this, so if
you're an open source softwarecontributor, you can actually
post your profile and anyone whowants to or maybe you're
contributing to open source andthey're using that open source.
A GitHub sponsor.

Speaker 4 (01:56:51):
Thank you so much, so when they were introducing it
in Nairobi.

Speaker 3 (01:56:54):
It was not available everywhere.
I think last year in November,if I'm not wrong around that
time.
I also mentioned about GitHubbeing paid, but of course they
said there's GitHub sponsor.
You know, you can make money.

Speaker 1 (01:57:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57:09):
It's a give and take.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:57:11):
But ideally, github actually make my yeah, it's a
give and take, yeah, but ideally, uh, github actually let me
speak a bit about it, not thegithub that you guys know.
The github, before it wasacquired by microsoft, was the
one of the biggest proponent ofcommunities.
Yeah, the I think github wasthe first, first, uh,
independent company thatsponsored some of the my
community events and initiativesand they helped us build a big

(01:57:35):
deal.
You know, there are communitiesthat are not backed by
companies.
When you talk about GDG,moringa, at, of course there are
companies behind them, butthere are communities like JS.

Speaker 1 (01:57:46):
Node JVM Ruby.

Speaker 3 (01:57:49):
All these are just open source and they're not
backed by any company.
So one of the things that weused to do is reach out to these
companies that are proponents.
It was very clear, veryforward-looking.
They used to send us swag andI'm glad to see they still have
some of that culture wherethey're sending someone like you
some swag for just actuallysharing that.

(01:58:10):
This is it and using it thisway it's really good, and I
think any company out there weare planning on doing that
Merchandise.

Speaker 4 (01:58:21):
Free, free merchandise yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:58:23):
But for us, we are planning also to like sell some
of it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:25):
Also have a store, a shop, a shop.
We'll be honest about it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:58:30):
And one thing about that is that you want to design
something that you would reallybuy and use it for some time.
But whenever we can, actually,we will give some of that for
free.

Speaker 4 (01:58:40):
Even GitHub they have a shop.

Speaker 3 (01:58:42):
The t-shirt.

Speaker 4 (01:58:42):
I got was from a shop .
They just gave a voucher to thewinners.

Speaker 3 (01:58:46):
Oh nice, Very nice I visited them in San Francisco
and these guys really I wouldsay this also encouraged me a
lot to continue actuallybelieving that community could
really work.
You know, when you're buildingcommunities, it's not the
easiest part of things.
So when I visited them to justsay thank you, because I just

(01:59:08):
felt like these guys even couldsupport us kilometers and
kilometers away, so they werereally excited.
So we took a few photos andthen they took me to their store
and they said do you?

Speaker 4 (01:59:19):
want some nuts.
What did you get?

Speaker 3 (01:59:23):
I got a t-shirt that I still have, but it's smaller
now.
They should give it away.
It's really quality stuff,someone is saying I should give
it to them.
But that one, you look like adress.

Speaker 4 (01:59:34):
With a very big smile .

Speaker 3 (01:59:36):
You look like a dress to me.

Speaker 2 (01:59:39):
It's fine.
Github dresses are okay.
I look for it actually.

Speaker 3 (01:59:42):
I don't mind.
Or maybe get you a new one.
It's on record.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
GitHub, do something.

Speaker 3 (01:59:49):
You could be part of this podcast once in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:59:52):
You're looking also for partners?

Speaker 3 (01:59:53):
to keep highlighting more hopes.

Speaker 1 (01:59:55):
More stories.

Speaker 3 (01:59:58):
More hopes.
To give hope to the hopeless.

Speaker 4 (02:00:05):
To the other techies.

Speaker 3 (02:00:08):
In another life I would be a msani.
So hope Parting shot.

Speaker 4 (02:00:13):
Alright, my, I would be a Muslim, so Hope parting
shot All right.
My parting shot would be inlife.
We need to continue learning.
Continuous learning is soimportant and also exposure.
I don't think I'd be seatedhere if it was not for the
people I met, the friends I made, the mentors along my path, my

(02:00:33):
family members, always tellingme you can do it, believe in
your dream, believe in what youwant to do.
That's very important in life.
Find people who want to see youbecome a better version of you.

Speaker 3 (02:00:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:50):
Very key.

Speaker 3 (02:00:50):
Do you want to go first or should I?
Me, I'll go key.
Yeah, do you want to go firstor should I?

Speaker 2 (02:00:55):
Me, I'll go with the proverb.
So you want to close off with aproverb?
I?

Speaker 3 (02:00:58):
can?
African proverb yeah, butladies first.

Speaker 2 (02:01:01):
All right, yes, For me mambo ni matatu.
One learn publicly.

Speaker 3 (02:01:09):
Learn publicly.

Speaker 2 (02:01:12):
Two network and join communities.
Three mentor and be mentored.

Speaker 3 (02:01:17):
Ah, very nice, Very nice.

Speaker 2 (02:01:18):
Very nice.

Speaker 3 (02:01:23):
Ah, that's wonderful, Sylvia.
So we are making it a cultureto like find an African proverb
that we give our listeners, thenyou know, and then finish it
off.
So today's proverbs comes from.
I don't know where it's comingfrom, but it's an African

(02:01:43):
proverb the smaller the lizard,the greater the hope of becoming
a crook.

Speaker 1 (02:01:52):
Let me repeat that so that you can see it.

Speaker 3 (02:01:53):
The smaller the lizard, the greater the hope of
becoming a crocodile.
So what does this proverbactually teach us?
Because, you know, africanproverbs are not just for the
sake of it.
It teaches us it doesn't matterwhere we are.
We should have some sort ofdrive to be better.
Does that make sense?

(02:02:16):
Yes, my parting shot is in thislife.
It's not like a one-off kind of, and I see most people actually
live like they have gottenthere.
It's a journey At whateverspace you are in, and that's why

(02:02:41):
I would use Elon Musk as anexample.
If you think about Elon Musk,he bought a 1.2 million US
dollar, I don't know, someCayenne or something, some nice
car, back in 1990-something,1998 or 1997.
But did that actually?
If you see that guy right now,he's starting out right, and

(02:03:05):
this actually goes to our techbros and sisters out here.
Is that?
Yes, it's okay to make goodmoney, it's okay to see the
fruit of what you struggled for.
I know some of us come from youknow and most unlikely
backgrounds, and the reason I'msaying this is because when I
started actually there was notnothing much to show for it.
Uh, you have to go to abroadand all that you know and stay

(02:03:27):
there.
But uh, over time I've realizedthat people are taking the
wrong tangent towards thesetechnologies software
engineering or that.
So my parting shot will belet's solve problems.
Let's try and see how can weuse these skills to impact
people, african people per se,because it doesn't matter how

(02:03:50):
you look at it, we're stillbehind in several sectors and
even our economy is not reallydoing well.
So let's build somethingsustainable and long-term For
those who have already made it,especially the billionaires and
trillionaires of this Africa.
Let's try and invest in theseyoung skills so that someone

(02:04:11):
doesn't survive on noodles forthe next decade and you could
actually make it possible forthem to build a solution that
can actually create more wealthfor everyone, so governments
should create policies thatsupport, not discourage, someone
like.
Hope to pursue this to the end,and may God be with us.

(02:04:34):
After all is said and done Godgives and human takes.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (02:04:43):
Alright, and with that we have concluded our chat
this evening or this night,rather, yes and for all those
who have been following along,thank you so much for sparing
the time for being with us, andwe really do hope that you have
taken some nuggets with you.
We hope you took nuggets fromHope, yeah.

(02:05:09):
Yeah, for those who arelistening back, remember to like
, share and subscribe.
Share it with as many people aspossible and re-watch it and
re-listen as many times as youwish.
That is it from us, fromafrica's stalking and impact
masters podcast.
We will see you in the next one.

Speaker 1 (02:05:38):
Bye, bye.

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