#42 - Victor Abedi - Impact Masters Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:15):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it's another beautiful
evening, Welcome, welcome,welcome, it's a good day.

(00:42):
Still in Rwanda, the land of athousand hills.
It's yours truly Michael Kemadior MKV Warrant, still covering

(01:03):
Africa Tech Ecosystem.
Still covering Africa techecosystem all the way.
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(01:24):
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(02:49):
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(03:37):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Beautiful day, and today we arejoined by one and only the man

(04:12):
himself Victor Abedi.
Victor Abedi has been mylongtime friend, a guy I've
known for some time, since thedays he was starting up until
today, and today we are going totell a story as a movement
shaker in tech across Africa andwhat really matters and how can
we really change Africa throughtech.
But before then, abedi isexperienced site reliability

(04:37):
engineer with seven plus yearsof experience and demonstrated
history of working and buildingresiliency in production systems
, distributed systems andbuilding at scale with security
and optimization in mind.
He practices DevOps andbuilding backend applications
using Spring Boot, java andMotocloud services, azure, aws

(05:01):
and GCP, and he helps architectson cloud and come up with slo
and sli to ensure systems arealways running optimally
releasing, engineering anddesigning system.
Abedi, how are you chief?

Speaker 4 (05:18):
yes, yes, yes hi mike , how are you that?
That was a long description,but Santisana happy to be here.
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
You know, for us we just keep it raw.
It's more of raw conversation,telling our own stories, trying
to make sure that everyone whois listening they know who we
are, why we are.
And you know we can't tell anAfrican man's story without
knowing who they are right, andmostly we find most of the

(05:50):
people telling you know theirstory in brief, and also even
other media come in and tellstories in brief.
You and I know most of thesefunk companies, tech companies
Now, most of the seriousengineers are based in Africa,
but this is not told.
You know well enough or enoughtimes to make any impact.

(06:15):
So for us, this podcast wasstarted by showcasing some of
these stories, because I myselfhave been in the ecosystem, I've
seen the transition and I knowwe can do more.
Kenya is one of the examples.
Today we're in Kigali, rwanda,and this is also one of the
examples of like it can be done.

(06:36):
So, ensuring that we're tellingthese stories is one step
towards the right direction.
So, chief, you have worked forso many uh amazing, impactful uh
companies across the worlddisneyland you know yeah but
before we go there, I would liketo hear who is abed from day

(07:01):
zero.
Before the abed we know, beforethe Victor senior engineer.
Yeah, yes, please tell us aboutAbedi.
Where did you grow up?
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (07:10):
I grew up in Umoja in Nairobi, so I grew up in the
sub, not really suburbs.
Yeah, they call it mid-levelclass ghetto of Nairobi yeah in
Umo Umoja, actually, no, no, Ican't remember.
So, growing up, I grew up inKibera and then my parents moved

(07:33):
us to Umoja, where I think Ilived, I think, most of my
teenage life, before having togo into, before having to go
into into boarding school.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, so, yeah, so yeah, allright, all right For sure?

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, the chief director here is interrupting
our session, Please go on, yeah,mike.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
So, like I mentioned, I grew up in.
I grew up.
Yeah, I grew up in Umoja.
Later on moved to Ongwaro andthen back in Umoja.
Later on moved to Ongwaro andthen back to Umoja but, yeah, I
basically grew up in thebeautiful city of Nairobi and,
yeah, that's pretty much thecity that defines who I am right
now.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Kaka Victor Abedi.
So, and this actually somethingI've realized with so many.
Kaka Victor Abedi.
Yes, so, and this is actuallysomething I've realized with so
many people that they likebrushing off.
Yeah.
You know, I grew up in Umoja.
I went to Nguaro, went back toUmoja and that's where I grew up
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sometimes most of theseexperiences of growing up in

(09:01):
these places makes us who we areDefinitely.
And if you think about Umoja,Umoja was one of the posh
estates, until you know, latelyyeah.
Same as Buruburu Actually, yes,but so many people who move
there, they don't know thesethings, and it's always good to

(09:23):
share some of these things.
I don't know if you used tolive in Umoja when it was Umoja.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
I actually lived in Umoja when it was Umoja.
That time it was in Mtindwa.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Oh, there was Mtindwa there, there was.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
Mtindwa, and I think Mtindwa is no longer there
anymore.
Yeah, and it was Umoja innercore and life was all about
living for survival.
Honestly, I did not have tostruggle.
Growing up I feel like myparents removed the stress of
having to do that.
But yeah, honestly I think thathumble background also kind of

(09:56):
humbled me, even where I amright now, because getting to
know where you're from ideallygives you that definition of who
you are right now.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
So what was the experience of growing in Umoja
back in the day?

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Growing up in Umoja was, I'll say, simple, honestly.
There was nothing much.
All you could do is wake up, goto school back home over the
weekends, catch up with yourfriends, play in the
neighborhood those brick mortargames, swings you will tie up
ropes in the stairway and usethat to swing.

(10:33):
I remember I even used to climbthe stairway anytime.
My dad used to be very strictwhen we were growing up, so
playing was never part of hissort of entertainment.
So, if you hear when your friendis like I've seen your father,
Vicky Babayako, the first thingyou think of is to run away, get
to the house and, you know,behave like you never left the

(10:54):
house.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
So that was really great for us.
So was it strict that youshould be more focusing on books
or more focusing on housechores, chores?
Or why was it strict Juststaying in the house, or Not
really.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
I mean there was time to play for sure.
I mean you know the way theysay work without play makes you
dull.
So my dad was open for playing,but then there were limits for
how long you could play being akid.
Kid, you know.
To other people, guys were letout to play until late in the
night, but for us it was.
You know, if you're gonna play,you step out for two hours and

(11:32):
just ensure you're back beforecurfew, because if you meet him
in the house after, cuff isgonna be another story.
But I feel like for him it was.
You can have fun but havelimits, and I think, even
growing up, now that I'm noteven staying at home, I can
actually go out and do things,but I still have that
reservation of okay, I have todo it, but I love to do it up to

(11:55):
a particular limit.
So, yeah, that was really aboutit.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
So that's one of the things that you learned when you
were young and it helped you inthe whole, the whole uh, years
or later years, exactly, exactlyin your life.
But at that age did you reallythink that you know, uh, or did
you find your dad strict, as yousaid, and you could not
understand?
Why does he require you to havecertain shedding?

Speaker 4 (12:19):
well again, being a boy.
Yeah, um, it was more like youknow also, I feel like there's
this thing people talk aboutacting your age.
So at that particular time itwas more like, yeah, my dad is
strict, I'm living under hisroof, I have to be obedient,
otherwise, if you want to createchaos or mayhem in the house,

(12:42):
just do the opposite.
But yeah, I mean just growingup in that particular
environment.
Honestly, I did feel like hewas kind of stepping into my
environment as a kid, but thennow, looking back, I feel like
this was actually maybe meant toculture me to become a
particular way or actually actin a particular manner.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh, very nice, Very nice.
So you did your primary schoolin Umoja and Kawangware.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yes, I went to in Umoja.
I schooled in what's thatschool called again Busara.
I went to Busara primary schooland I used to have those guys
for first border.
The guys, the big guys of theclass.
So ideally, if you're a firstborder, people will respect you.
But I think, due to adolescenceand many other things, other

(13:30):
traditional factors, we had tomove from Umoja and move into
Kawangware and at thatparticular time I had to shift
classes.
yeah, Because, even parents,again, I think anybody who grew
up in Nairobi around that timeanything between 2004 all the
way to 2006 our parents used tomove a lot.

(13:52):
Actually, I'll find it weird ifyou stayed in one neighborhood.
If you're living in nairobithroughout the primary school
time.
Yes, so we we did move fromumoja, we, we went to Kawangware
, and at this particular time Ihad to shift schools too.
My dad took me to one of thegood schools.

(14:12):
Actually, I went to MilimaniPrimary School in Kilimani.
Actually, right now it's asuburb by itself by then, it
wasn't, it was, it was coming up, I do remember my escapades in
Milimani primary school for sure, and yeah, that was fun, until

(14:32):
we had to come back again toUmoja, which meant now again
changing schools.
So I did move to what's thatschool called Dunham primary.
This?
Is still primary right.
This is still in primary right.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
This is still primary , yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
So there are things like class six and then my
adolescence kicked in and Ithink my class teacher did
report this to my dad and my dadwas like it's about time we
need to move you to a boardingschool.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
So when you talk about adolescence, you start
becoming big-headed.
You can't be taught anything.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Of course, and then growing up in Umoja.
You know, now you're becomingwe call it kuwa mrui like you
want to take charge of Hardcore,hardcore, exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Nowadays they call I don't know if it's Shembeteng or
something Umawuru.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah, there were.
Know if it's shemberting orsomething?
Yeah, there are othersdefinitely.
And I will tell you for sure,at that particular time, if, if
I wasn't moved with my parentsto a boarding school, I would
probably end up being one ofthose street kids not really
street kids, but those streetgangsters because that's what
the environment that we were inwas actually pushing, that's

(15:46):
what the environment that wewere in was actually pushing us
into.
So the fact that my parents,our parents, saw that way in
advance and they chose to moveus to to boarding school
honestly, that was that was ablessing to myself yeah, yeah,
for sure, yeah and uh.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Then did you realize they're doing something to help
you?
Or you still feeling like, ah,you know, my parents are a bit
strict.
They don't care about me thatmuch, you know well, it did
happen.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
Uh, the funny thing, my, my, my brother actually went
to boarding school way inadvance.
Okay, yeah a year, a yearbefore me.
Yeah and uh, at this point intime my dad is is preparing me.
He's telling me you know, fromnext year you're going to a
boarding school.
Yeah, I think my bro also kindof lied to me again.
The boarding school that wewere going to was not in Nairobi

(16:33):
.
Oh, so this boarding school wasin was in Homa Bay in a place
called Oyugis.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Oyugis.
Yeah, yes, I know Ogis.
I think we have a pastor Ogis.
Yes, yeah we have actuallyAgorosare yes on your way to.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
Kisii.
So I went to a boarding schoolcalled Ober Boys Boarding School
and at that particular time,before I even joined the
boarding school, my bro had liedto me that they have a swimming
pool in school.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah.
So me, I knew ah, this is yourbig bro, or small bro, my big
bro.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, so I'm like, ah , wait a minute, what am I even
doing in Nairobi?
Because Nairobi, you know, it'sjust about acting gangster and
going to school and adolescence.
And I mean, he did sell thatvision to me.
Honestly, I knew I was going toheaven, yeah, when there's no
dad, there's no mom to controlme.
Kunna swimming pool I can swimall I want, I can go to class

(17:26):
when I want.
And I think this time there'sthis popular magazine that
actually came out Insider.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
The.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
Insider had just come out, and also, what's this
other one called?
There used to be this magazinecalled Shujaz and they had
partnered with a show calledClub Kiboko, so I was featured
and my bro took the magazine tothe boarding school so you are,
you already a celeb?
There.
Yes, when I'm going to school,by the time I'm arriving in the

(17:52):
school, everybody is expecting acelebrity this guy's been seen
in tv.
Yeah, so this is a big mancoming to school and honestly, I
will tell you for sure it washard settling in boarding school
.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Because there's expectation that people have.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
There's what you had expected from this environment.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
Remember, I'm still expecting the same thing and
those expectations never met.
Yeah, so yeah, I did my primary.
I actually finished my primaryin Obero Boys Boarding.
I joined high school now thatwas the Rero Boys Boarding.
I joined high school.
Now that was Orero BoysBoarding School.
Shout out, I know it's anational school.

(18:31):
Nowadays they call it OreroHigh School, so shout out to my
boys who are listening to thispodcast.
That's what I actually did inmy high school and actually
that's where my passion forcomputing did develop.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Don't brush off up.
We are here like, take it onestep at a time.
Yeah, so you finish uh primaryschool.
How did you manage to meetthese two?
And you know you might assumeit, but there are a lot of
people who actually this istheir reality as you speak 100,
for sure, yeah, around africatheir reality as you speak, 100
for sure, yeah, around africa,because, you see, africa is a
dream.
For sure, not yet.
We have not woken up, we're ina dream.
So there's what you want to see.

(19:12):
There's what is happening onthe ground.
There's what we are promised iswhat our leaders tell us.
So it's a one big dream inevery, in every angle, in every
age, because we've given kenyahas come from.
It's just one year after theelection.
It's what people actuallyexpected from the new government
.
People are like this is worsethan the dream that we're in, so

(19:34):
they're in another dream,expecting for the better.
So, what I'm trying to say isthat that reality actually sets
different knowledge sets forpeople to grasp something out of
it.
So how did you match the two,the expectation from the
students and your expectationfrom the school?
And now even your real brotherhas lied to you.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Did you overcome it over time?

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Definitely One thing for sure I have learned in this
life there's nothing permanentin this life.
Yeah, yeah, definitely onething for sure I have learned in
this life there's nothingpermanent, yeah, in this life.
Yeah, yeah.
So, uh, I definitely didovercome the the overwhelming
situation that was there at thatparticular time.
Yeah, um, I think, at most forsure, having my brother also in
that school did help a lot.

(20:20):
Yeah, yeah, because you know,we used to be like two.
My brother used to be like mysidekick, so anytime we needed
help, I need a help withsomething.
You always gonna show up for me.
So life wasn't that bad at thatparticular time and, yeah,
definitely, I mean, yes, there'sthe expectation that I did hard
yeah but over time I did haveto accept the reality of what

(20:48):
life gives you.
Yeah, and use it.
What you are dreaming, oh okay.
Go ahead.
Yeah and yeah, it was justreality by itself.
So I did settle in, I think,three months in.
Yeah.
I just settled into the systemand honestly, looking back, it
was actually a good experience.

(21:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
So how did you perform in primary school?

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Well, here's the thing I'm not a bookworm, I'm
more a logical person.
I'm one person who likes usingknowledge and putting it in
practice.
Yeah, yeah and for sure, theAfrican system.
Brother, when you go to schoolyou are kind of set to do
certain subjects, so for sure,for sure.

(21:34):
I did not get an A, I think.
No, we didn't have grades in wedid we did.
Oh, yeah, I think.
Yeah, we did.
Actually, we did.
Yes, so I wasn't an a student,I was an average student.
Yes, yes, yeah, but for sure,if you're listening to this and
you are finding yourself in thatlevel, don't pressure yourself

(21:55):
it's gonna be okay don'tpressure yourself.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
It's not about the a, b, c, d, o and up to e.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
It's about this about you it's about the skill that
you get when you're in class.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
But just straight to it.
I did score enough to take meto high school and this means
maybe you did not drop youradolescence approach to life.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Well, I mean, you see , for sure, just never skip
anything that comes through yourlife.
If you're meant to be anadolescent at that particular
time, just act it, of course,for sure.
There's going to come a timewhen it's going to be past you.
You don't want to be 30 andyou're acting as an adolescent.
Okay, yeah, for sure.
So I did take it in the way itcame.
I did play the role as it cameVery nice.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
So you joined Orero Orero One, and only yes.
Oh, that's the motto.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
Yeah, that's the motto.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
So Orero is a Italian name, right.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Honestly, I do not know.
I think, yeah, I honestly don't, because I think when I used to
go to Fankies at some point Iused to put swag in the name.
Yeah, so I will be.
I will be like um in Orero highschool I think that time also
the Oreo biscuit I just came out, so it'll be like I'm in Orero,

(23:17):
like when you say in Orerosounds like Lenana or the big
schools.
Yeah, but at that time when Ijoined, it was actually a
secondary school, struggling,but for sure, for sure, the guys
were living who are in thatschool right now.
They're living the life.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Oh yeah, I've seen it .
So you guys really set out.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
You know some good we built up the foundation for
where the school is right now.
Oh, very nice, very nice.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
So you joined the school.
What was you during?

Speaker 4 (23:47):
the, the, the school.
What was that?
Did you get moralization?
You got moralized?
Yeah, I mean, no, I did not.
I wasn't bullied in high schooland I feel also, coming from a
boarding school, uh, intoanother boarding school you know
, of course, almost high schoolsin kenya usually go through the
boarding system.
The fact that I did have theexperience first no one would
bully me and then the way theschool was actually known for

(24:09):
discipline we did have one.
A guy called William Oluchi wasthe deputy principal at that
particular time.
He speaks less and, trust mefor sure, you going out on
expulsion suspension wassomething that could happen in a
second when you're in hisoffice, actually when you're
somewhere in his office.

(24:29):
Two things either.
Bad news yeah, or good news,which means you can be expelled
anytime, and good news is andgoodness could be like your
father sent you money fortransport they used to send to
the principal, of course, guysfrom nairobi, you know oh guys,
because you know it's anothersix hour drive from the school

(24:50):
back to home.
Yeah, yeah um.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
So how was this school set up?
Like, um, you said it wassecondary school.
Right now, people are livinglarge, yeah, yeah.
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 4 (25:03):
uh, okay, so by that for sure, the infrastructure
that I got when I joined theschool was way, way different,
okay, to how things are rightnow.
Yeah, I think the the in my inmy early for I think the form
one, our structures wereactually built out of clay yeah
that was not even stone.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
So it was more of a community.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
Yeah, actually the school was more like a
community-based school in acenter.
Even the kind of meals theywould prefer us, you know the
normal gideri.
That's what gideri and ujiwould be our staple diet.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
That is, mace and beans mixed together.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Together, yeah, and then they'll sift the mace and
add sugar with water and cooksomething called porridge.
So that was that.
But yeah, honestly, I mean theschool.
You know again, school is allabout knowledge.
Yeah, the rest is by the wayyeah but for sure we did have

(26:02):
enough room to sleep.
The dormitories were fine.
Uh, our bathrooms were not thatfancy, it was just an open air
market.
Just go take your trough, fetchsome water and pour it on
yourself.
The rest, uh, yeah, you justfigured out the way it was.
But I know right now theinfrastructure is amazing, the
kind of facilities that theyhave, what they are served.

(26:24):
I mean, all you just need toworry about is books so what
really made you perform reallywell, right?
now, the infrastructure isamazing, the kind of facilities
that they have, what they areserved, I mean, all you just
need to worry about is books sowhat really made you perform
really well, well, for sure,again mike, again my background
I, I didn't come from a fancy,uh, family.
We were not that rich.
I think we were middle, mid, uh, mid-size, middle class, middle
class, exactly.
This is okay.
You know it's cutting thecountry we're in here I guess

(26:46):
the hardy and they told me.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
He told me that they by 2027 or something yeah they
want to be middle income countryand you can see you can see
what we already have here, butthey're not already middle
income?
Yeah, by 2050 they want to behigh income country.
Yes, so middle class is okay,but of course I know what you
mean.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Like um, it's not like too fancy, or you know, in
between, yeah, and the problemabout in between is you can fall
either way yeah, so you canjust one one salary away from
poverty, yes, and you're alsoone salary away from being rich.
Yes, yes, yeah, yes, yeah.
So there was that, and alsolike my background growing up.
Yeah, I feel like that alsolike shaped me for who I am in

(27:30):
life.
Even like even me going throughschool.
Yeah.
I feel like if I went to how doyou call them?
The group of schools orsomething, I probably would have
turned out differently.
Yeah, makini.
Broca, ospaone and the rest,because where I went in school,
it was all about survival forthe fittest, so you fight for
your own.
It's like literally what youcall the what do you call it?

(27:54):
The jungle.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
The animal kingdom, the man for himself and God for
us all.
Exactly yeah, the animalkingdom.
So you fight for your own.
Shamba Lawanyama.
So that was high school for me,so did you ever miss lunch
because maybe you got late, orsomething?

Speaker 4 (28:10):
happened?
Oh for sure, 100%.
It's not even being late.
Yeah, we'll actually queue.
You know, at this time theschool, I think, had a
population of about 2,000 people, zero grazing, I think in about
if that was a lot, probablyseven hectares of land but 2k
students, so it was taking inagain.

(28:31):
Discipline and performance madeit reputable for people to come
from different parts of thecountry and come study there.
Yeah, but yeah, uh, you willactually go queue and they will
tell you the food is over.
So you, until next time, eitherwait for tomorrow, there was
talk they will cook somethinglittle for you guys and you'll
put that, you summon that, intoyour stomach.

(28:52):
Yeah, but yeah, there were days, we for sure.
I mean I can't think of any,but if there was at least one
thing for sure, like I said itsurvival for the fittest.
So if you miss out food, I meanyou have the right to go and
complain because you paid fees.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
You paid fees.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
There's no way you can sleep hungry.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
And at least you'll get bread and what.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, Actually, at that particular time you go to
the canteen.
You buy your quarter, your tenbob.
Oh, you buy.
Yeah, you go to the canteen,will get your quota the school
will not cater for that.
No again.
Even the school was part of thesystem they are made to make you
train more resources and peopleare not paying school fees in
time yeah, and actually thosepeople there are guys who we

(29:40):
used to call them.
You know, the guys who actuallywill come to school and they
live nearby school.
Yeah, and you know, people didcome from different backgrounds
and you know, I know of studentswho actually paid their fees
because their parents used tocultivate maize and sell that
maize to the school for us toeat it.
Yeah, yeah, so it was.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
They paid using cereals.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Yeah, you pay using cereals.
Yeah, but that's it.
But I tried for sure.
What did you call those guys?
I don't know, but for sure wedidn't put out any names to the
students.
It was more like peer respect.
Okay, so again, no one will tagyou but for sure you know this,
you know the school yes,because again the principal will
be like these guys have notpaid school fee.

(30:24):
You, your father, he brought toyou know you know two sets of
mace and your school fees, about40 sacks.
So you know, and guys will beexpelled, actually, but they're
not because this guy will besent home oh, okay, yeah because
you know the school also needsto feed people.
And if they don't have enoughresources to feed everyone
because someone didn't pay feepeople and if they don't have

(30:44):
enough resources to feedeveryone because someone didn't
pay fee to offset the liabilityof the guys who paid fees not
eating, you are let out to gohome.
So you will figure it out toget by but those guys turned out
well well, they did yeah,really well they did, and I will
tell you guys did.
And again I feel like I thoughtwhat one thing that that taught
me was.
Regardless of where you comefrom, or rather where you come

(31:07):
from and the struggles thatyou've been in through life,
those lessons do actually definewho you become.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Exactly that's what I said because, for me, we would
start from where you are, whatyou do, you know your skill base
and everything.
What?
Needs to be done, but I feellike you know, when you skip
that formation, the foundationof, everything and.
I think also, I feel like evenAfrica is an ecosystem in terms
of economic, socio political andeverything.
The reason why most of ourstructures collapse yeah is

(31:37):
because we build them from otherstructures which we pick up
from either stem or branches, oryou know, yeah, copy and paste
and yes copy and paste and wedon't ask ourselves.
By the time these people decidedmaybe a president should serve
for two years, they had theirown experience.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
What is our experience?
We always say this works Forsure.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
We don't go beyond that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Let's use it and see.
Then it doesn't work.
You're like these other oneworks.
I don't know if you have seenthat meme of you know something
walking, and then, when they seesomething, I don't know what
it's called animation orsomething yeah so when I see a
cricket walking this way in mostof the countries in africa

(32:21):
that's the way it is, but Ithink um give the credit to deal
for sure.
I love, love how things areturning out.
Step by step.
Young people have more voice.
Young people are doing amazingstuff and people are realizing.
Even if I had 100,000 acres ofland, I'm just one person.
But it would be if I had thisknowledge and shared it and I

(32:43):
think we'll get there and seehow see how what you have been
doing had impact in the shortesttime possible.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there's that part of highschool.
So where did you start?
Now getting into computing?
You know programming andwhatnot.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So I think in probably yeah,let me take it back though.
So I think in probably yeah,let me take it back though.
So this is before high school.
Yeah, in class eight, one finemorning my dad comes home.
He's loaded, he's definitelycarrying some cartons.
Yeah.
And it seems like it has goodiesfor sure.
So my dad had just acquiredsome computers for us to use at

(33:25):
home.
Growing also with the diversityand things changing how people
work, we did have our firstcompact, that CRT based monitor
with your system unit and yourmouse and keyboard.
Yeah, that was what we had andI remember the first time I
touched that device, I mean thefirst time, it was more like you

(33:46):
know, let me play those cards,game Solitaire, I think I get it
.
And then I used to tell my mom Iwill go and sleep and then I
will think about something and Iwill come and do that thing in
the computer and it willactually work.
And my mom used to befascinated about that and I was
like, yeah, mom, this isactually.
It's weird that I go and dreamabout it.

(34:09):
I do not know how to use thecomputer at that particular
point, but then now, based onthe interest and the intriguing
things that this thing is ableto do, I just start thinking
about something the next day.
I want to be like let me go andcheck out my computer and
probably find this file no andI'll go and do it and you know
I'll actually find it there andI will be like interesting yeah

(34:31):
and then later on.
So the high school that I joined, they're actually offering
computers a subject yeah, fromfrom one, and of course the they
have to introduce to the basicsand I can tell you, of all the
many subjects that I took inhigh school, my best performing
subject was actually computerstudies.
So at this particular point,this is where now the interest

(34:53):
is actually coming, and thebeauty about this is the way the
syllabus is curated, I think,is introduction parts of a
computer and then later onthey'll introduce you to the
basics of programming.
And, to be honest, I just didpull the plug until the last bit
from four where I even did myyou know examination around
computing yeah and that'sactually where the magic started

(35:16):
yeah, what fascinated you to bereally that interested?
well, it's the fact that you,that the world of computing does
open up opportunities for you,because you are allowed to build
something and actually see itwork.
Yeah, yeah.
And honestly, you know, withcomputing there are two sides,
there is hardware and there issoftware.

(35:37):
Yeah.
Software is basically you givinginstructions to a hardware to
perform a particular task, andyou know you being able to do
that using a programminglanguage or even just
interacting with the ui yeah doui.
Yeah, and you know the computerbeing able to do what you want
to do.
Yeah, that to me was like.
I mean, you have the world withyou already yeah, yeah you want

(35:59):
to instruct your computer tookay, I mean everything of the
worst.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Bomb a place, yeah, I mean we've seen it in military
no, I mean even, they say rightnow the next world war will not
be about people bombing eachother.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Yeah, cyber war.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
It will be cyber war, for sure and remember the other
day, most of the governmentwebsite in.
Kenya were hacked yes, thattells you that this thing is
more real than ever.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah, it's coming up, and that's why for me.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
I'm passionate about software engineering, for one is
that it will put us in a place.
I'm not saying that we shouldbe fighting each other or
something For sure, but we cancreate so many solutions that
actually will take us to thenext level, for sure.
So you start programming.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
Which language did you start with?
So my first language wasactually html that is in high
school.
After I said this is in highschool.
Still, yeah, so I think in formthree, that's when they now
start introducing programming.
Yeah, um, I think there wascobble in our cobble and pascal
was actually in our syllabus ohreally yes, it was which year

(37:02):
year was this In high school?
this is in between 2010 and 2014.
Okay, yeah, so I actually.
Yeah, we were actually taughtthose languages, the basics,
yeah, but then also, time hadmoved on and also, I think,
where the world was going.
I think HTML5 was just beingintroduced in the market.

(37:22):
Yeah, I remember that.
yeah, yes, so yeah, I juststarted.
You know, the fancy thing was,I think, in HTML there's this
thing, there's this stuff calledMcHugh where if you put text
inside a McHugh, it moves, likeyou know when you watch news and
those two headlines are movingdown there yeah.
The fancy thing.
Yeah.
So that used to fascinate me alot, fascinate me a lot.

(37:45):
You know, I was like wait, Icould actually write a long as
paragraph, and you know thatwill move across my screen, yeah
, so yeah, html was actually myfirst programming language, but
things have changed yeah now,and do you know who drove the
html5 to be the standard?

Speaker 2 (37:58):
uh, you know, interface language uh, no, the
reason I mentioned and Iremember it is Apple, or Apple
as people call it, and thereason was people used to use
something with Adobe.
It was Adobe, something thatwas a standard for video viewing

(38:19):
.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
Yes, how Adobe Flash something?

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Flash media.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, flash, flash Media, something, something.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
But the argument of Steve was that this thing is
eating memory.
Memory is what makes thingsload or display.
Well, the quality determinesthe quality.
But HMFI was really straightbecause it just crunched some
digits, which is zeros and ones,and displayed them really fast.
Scrunch some digits, which iszeros and ones, yeah, and

(38:50):
display them really fast.
So steve actually gave them.
Uh, give the adobe people forflash.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
Um, uh, now I don't know you say flash something,
but I do remember the extensionthat you needed to put on if you
wanted to stream anything.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Absolutely, it's like a java running machine Before
for you.
Okay, this now soundsfascinating.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
Now it sounds dirty.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
So before people used to install these even users,
for their videos to play, andespecially on Windows or PCs, it
was really really slow and youknow, steve was always for
optimum performance and design,so Flash did not really allow
the room and given that it wasthe background of flashes Adobe,

(39:29):
it was so furious and I givethese guys a notice yeah then I
used to do blackberry and stuffso you get.
These guys are notice, I thinkof one year the same way you see
things discordant, like theytell you, your iPhone 7 will not
have any updates.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
The same thing.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
By this date yes, and people thought this guy is nuts
.
How can you stop the only thingthat makes video play?

Speaker 4 (39:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Guess what that's?
When now YouTube was catchingup YouTube thing.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
Now.
People are going to the web.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Now this guy was a proper visionary.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah, down the line he stopped supporting Flash
.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
He will not be building Flash because another
thing also that made himdiscouraged with Flash is that
every time you build thisversion of Flash, another
version of Flash is out and it'sall the best to use the
resources you have.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
Yes, because that means you guys need to go and
re-engineer it when he stoppedit that was the end of Flash
everyone else you know wesupported one year, but
eventually it was not really.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I don't know which people who are listening on our
Twitter space can chime in.
You can come in and speak andchime in around this topic and
it will make it more interactive.
So I don't know if there arestill companies supporting it,
but eventually that's how Flashended up becoming obsolete.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
And this also tells you about other technologies.
But eventually that's how Flashended up becoming obsolete, and
this also tells you about othertechnologies.
I know right now the biggestthing is AI machine learning and
we'll get there.
But now you start doing HTML,HTML5, and then, which other
language fascinated you?

Speaker 4 (41:01):
Well, not even languages.
I think they did introduce usto how hardware works, because
you know for a hardwarecomponent to behave the way it
behaves.
There's now that machinelanguage.
What you introduce, thebinaries and all that kind of
stuff and I think at thatparticular point it was one
class that I did enjoy a lot wasactually that binary class.

(41:23):
Yeah, so the zeros and ones.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
And how to write hexadecimal, hexadecimal.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
You know, and we actually tested it.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
This is high school, yeah it was there, it's still
there in the syllabus that isOrero.
Yes, maybe guys should be goingto Orero.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Guys, no, just do computer.
If it's offered in your schoolas a subject, just do it.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
You'll Understand the basics Exactly.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
Rather than studying mountains in geography and
different types of stones.
So again, don't forget, we needpilots.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Kaka, that's how we got here, so don't discourage
people.
If you feel like you should dogeography and you want to be a
pilot, please go for it Againand that's why there's always a
selection, I think by Form 3,you already know what you want
to study.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
But for me that was part of the curriculum and I did
enjoy that part of you know howthe CPU and ALU works and how
those you know zeros areconverted into instructions that
the computer can actuallyunderstand Because, as I say,
there's the high-level languageand the low-level language.
So, when you speak about binary,you're talking about the
low-level languages.
But yeah, that was in oursyllabus, it was good.
It was good when it came andyeah, I think for me just having

(42:36):
a concept and an idea andactualizing that concept and
idea through, uh, software yeahdid make me stay in the software
world.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, yeah, that's very fascinating because, to be
honest, my first computerinteraction was in university
first year.
This is not just aboutprogramming or anything and you
know I, I.
Is there something to okay?
It's something to be proud ofbecause, uh, for me, just you

(43:05):
know these computers, I was Iwas still fascinated with the
computers, but of course, towhere I went to school and the
computers that are availablewere just to play game using a
floppy disk.
Oh yeah, they will come and putit inside and there are so many
other like facets or things thatare moving around, so when I
went to the investors like no,no, no, no, I need to learn this

(43:28):
stuff, I need to catch up,because everyone who was coming
there they're either fromPioneer or Alliance or Mangu.
People have just done all thisstuff cool stuff Already.
Yeah, but I'm there how do youswitch all these things?
Can you imagine that?

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Well, it was a problem for many people Without
using the switch.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Yes, because for me, I was like there's something you
can do, because I will seesomeone.
He switches off.
Yeah.
How do, you do that, so for meit was like playing catch up,
and very fast, because by thefirst month there's a cut.
Yeah.
Right, and you have done allthe math in high school.
You have gotten good grades.
And then you realize there isanother math that you have never

(44:08):
heard of, that is still waitingfor you and.
I understand also, guys learnsome of this math in high school
.
So whoever has that chance,take it really at this point and
maximize on it, because ithelps you a lot and also it
helps you understand thingsfaster and it's good that you
have shared Abedi.
Yeah, so you finish.
By the time you were doing KCSEyou had already made up your

(44:30):
mind I'm doing anything to dowith computing.

Speaker 4 (44:32):
For sure, for sure, for sure.
I knew the moment I am leavingthat gate if I was to get you
know.
But this time you're not evendone your KCSE and I think, like
I said, I was an averagestudent.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
And, I think, the best grade that I ever scored in
between form 2 and form 3 was aC+.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
C++ is university entry grade.
And you're not sure by thattime, and you're not sure if
you're going to get in, butstill I knew for sure that, even
if I needed to work, pullmyself up from my C grade and
come to a B, which will give mea good landing.
But will give me a good levelstill average, but will give me
a good learning.
In uni I knew for sure I wasgonna do software engineering

(45:10):
yeah I think something else okay, yeah, something that I didn't
miss out.
Um, there's this um codingschool actually it's called the
mobiles.
Yes, yes it's like I know guystalk about Moringa School now.
Yeah, but Immobilize hadintegrated their curriculum also
.
They used to come to highschools.

(45:32):
Mobile development, yes, yes.
So they will target guys whoare like Form 3, form 4.
And then they will give you atest.
If you pass the test, onceyou're done with your KCSE, they
will pick you up for a partialscholarship, and I think this
program was sponsored by Googleat that particular time.
I think also the mobilesoftware market was also quite

(45:53):
new.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
It was like the big thing Nokia, MacBerry, Symbian
you guys were actually buildingon Symbian at that time.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
So at this point I had two options Like if I fail,
fail, fail.
And I know you need a grade.
I had two options Like if Ifail, fail, fail at a no uni
grade.
I know I'm definitely landinginto immobility Because by the
time I just did the test beforeKCSE they already sent me an
admission letter for the partialscholarship.

(46:22):
So I knew for sure if I'm notgetting into the university to
pursue computer science, I willdefinitely land in Immobilis.
So you already set but I didn'tknow software was going to be
it.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
So what did you do to get the?
I was asking did you do theresearch?
What is required for you to getinto a proper computing
university?

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Well, I did.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
And when you found physics, chemistry, biology,
that was the catch.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
Those were your things.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Well, honestly, maths was something else, math was
not mathing as we say nowadays.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Well, I don't know, I don't know if it was what
happens in high school.
Is it adolescence, or it's youbeing a teenager, or something
else?

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I don't know I feel like, also, there is a lot of
noise in high school.
Yeah, there was that.
I was a backbencher.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
I was a backbencher yeah we used to call ourselves
guys from nairobi.
You know, when people, thoseguys whose their father are
paying school for using maze, Iswitch.
Our dads are paid school forusing money.
We had back benching, makingnoise and writing letters.
But yeah, maths was not mathingfor me at that particular point
in time.
I think the best, which wasactually quite crazy, and I

(47:36):
think my dad had to step inBecause computer, a Worst grade,
worst percentage, was 70.
Best, most of the time I'll geta 90.
Come to maths.
The best I'll get in maths wasa 20 out of a 100.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
It was that serious.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
I used to have a very supportive maths teacher.
He was my class teacher.
He used to be called Ofumwali,some lawyer guy, and the guy
would come to class and say,babu, you passed.
And mind you, let me tell youwas he not ironical at that
point?
I did not know, this guy hasbeen teaching me maths from form

(48:17):
1.
He's been our class teacher allthrough form 4 and you know
I'll actually get worried, evenme, and go to his office and
tell him teacher me this math.
I don't know, maybe I shouldcome for remedial classes or
something.
He'll be like don't worry, youhave passed so anytime.

(48:38):
And you know it became a normfor our class actually because
you know, in every year you wentinto we had streams, so like
from east, west, south, so I wassouth and south had the highest
number of students, so we werelike 90 of us in a class.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Why is that?
Was there a reason?
I think?

Speaker 4 (48:59):
it was also like the infrastructure was also kind of
building up and the integratewas also bigger.
So for the modern classroomsthey will build them slightly
bigger than the others and thenthat will be the south streams.
Okay, so because us, when weentered, I think, that class,
you were like a hundred.
By the time we're finishing inform four, we were like 80

(49:19):
something yeah so it meant thatif if there was a form three
south before we went in form two, they had to build a bigger
form three south for us to moveinto.
Yeah, yeah, but for sure, inmath I can tell you.
Uh, we used to have one student, gondy steven, who will get a
and his a was an 80, 96, 97, 98.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
so that means you even getting close to him was
unimaginable, Him he was in hisown world.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
Extreme Him.
He was in his own world Becausenow in our world, where we were
with the other people, fromGondi to the next person that
would be the next person has a50.
Now, from the 50, they are nowus, the rest of the class, now
the bigger percentile of theclass, which I think like 60 of

(50:11):
us.
That's where now you meet me.
So you guys were the key factorin studies.
Yes, now you meet me.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Me.
I'm there with my 21, 19.
You know, my best I think wasat, I think, 25.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, the best you've ever gotten.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
you know, my best, I think, was at I think 25, yeah,
because yeah, in math I'm likeI'm number three.
What do you mean?
I'm number three?
Oh, the group, yeah.
And then you know like you'llbe.
You, of course, you know whenyou they give you your papers,
you'll be like you ask yourneighbor, you, what have you
gotten?
You have a 17.
You're fine, and and you, youhave a 14.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
you're fine and you, you have a 14.
I've done better than you guys.
Yeah, but was it?

Speaker 4 (50:55):
was it how mother was taught?
Was it the teacher?
Was it?
Well, it was the attitude forsure, I can tell you for sure,
when the math was being taughtin class we will understand,
yeah, but now, when it comes toexams, you're all lost, I think.
I think maybe that knowledgewas just supposed to be retained
as it was taught or wherever itwas landing into, I do not know
, but I had to train my mindBecause in Form 3, things are

(51:17):
getting serious.
You're now about to do your KCSE, and if you're going to get a
20, for sure computer science isnot going to be on your radar
at all.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Did you research this and found out, or someone?

Speaker 4 (51:28):
told you.
Of course, now in form three,you start hearing things about
cutoff points yeah uh, subjectrequirements to do a particular
course.
So and this actually brings meto another catch yeah, because
maths and physics, uh I think,are the main main yeah in our

(51:49):
school, I think in form 3.
Yeah, we're just not resisting.
So before you choose thatyou're going to do physics, the
physics child said that if hedid not get above 40, forget
about the forget about the shit.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I don't want we do not want people jokers in my
class.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Apparently me I was the highest percentile, so me
I'd qualify to do it At thatparticular time.
I think my physics I got a 51.
So I think in that classapparently, from the 86 of us
who were supposed to choosesubjects to do physics, only
five qualified to do physics andfive qualified to do physics.
And I can tell you the guy wasa damn serious the entire school

(52:32):
term.
Only five of us did physics.
Now when we came back for thesecond term this guy was
teaching practice.
He disappeared on us.
You didn't have a physicsteacher.
And then this is a communityschool, so the school has to
figure out to get another one,the BOG Manenos but do I have
time?
I have computer studies herethat I'm doing yeah then I'm

(52:53):
like you know what, if they'renot going to give us a physics
teacher in time, I will not dothe subject.
So I did not do physics, whichlater on, I think, I'll come and
explain how that impacted melater, when I was going to join
uni.
For sure, so from 3 and from 4you didn't have a school teacher

(53:14):
we didn't have a no, I think helater came in from 3, but then
you see time has moved andyou're not covered a lot and me
I don't have time forequilibrium and whatever you
know those things and balancingthe circuit and all these things
.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
So I was like you sound like you are too bougie
for high school.
Not really man, not not evenbougie.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Well, okay, maybe now that I'm saying the story.
Yeah, it sounds, but that timeI was like you know, there's no
other ways at this point pointin time, you just have to go
with it as it is.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So you moved to form four.
I'm moving to form four at thistime I am taking biology,
chemistry, uh, computer studies,maths, english, all languages,

(53:55):
I think, yeah, and cr andhistory, because I knew cr
industry that straight.
Yeah for sure, those arealready your master, you
complement your grades.
But now maths, I'm still thehighest, I think, in Form 4.
Form 4, I'm still getting 21.
And the teacher is like Babu,you've passed.

(54:17):
With you with you, like you'vepassed, keep going.
But I will.
Honestly, now that I look back,I do not blame that teacher.
He had a purpose for us, forsure.
And again it was more like inlife you'll meet different
people.
You'll meet people who willcheer you on and at that time we

(54:37):
used to call them the wind.
So if you follow the wind andyou're being cheered on and in
your real, real life, you knowyou're going to fail again,
you'll fail.
But if you call yourself in themeeting and say, okay, this guy
is just he's telling mesomething.
He's giving me lies or pushingme towards a particular point.
I just had to re-strategizebecause in this particular point

(55:00):
you are looking at uni, youneed to go and pursue this
course.
You need to get those cut offpoints.
So I did pick up so how did?
You crack it it was mostly selfstudy.
I had to even move myself fromthe back bench to the guy who
was getting.
Steven.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Gondi where is he nowadays?

Speaker 4 (55:21):
I think he's some doctor somewhere.
Gondi went to UN he's now somemedical doctor.
Gondi doctor gonna listen tothe podcast, but now we should,
yeah, but it's been a while.
I do.
I do follow up on these guys onFacebook my classmate in

(55:42):
seminary was known as JoshuaMamie.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah, listen to this, please let.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Please, let's come here, let's talk about this
thing.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I think he's a pharmacist, one of the best in
the country.
There's another guy fromNortheastern.
I think his name was?
Can I remember his name?
He was my deskmate actually,but that guy, chemistry and math
, it's just that he could notget a hundred.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
Or the teachers would take one percent from him, this
guy finished the syllabus interm one.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
term two oh crazy.
In form three.
Form four guys used to come toconsult.
Teaching practice guys used tocome to consult.
He knew all these KIE errors,why they're here and why they're
there yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
And stuff like that.
This guy was good, wait, butlet me ask you Wow, you know
like also in In high school.
I figured there were those guyswho had gone to High school
before.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
But then they came back.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
No, no, no, these were not Still like you guys are
age mates.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah, like Joshua.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
I hear his story.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I was not in that school.
Then yeah, I think from one andfrom two.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
First, time he was the last guy oh, are they
admitted?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
no, uh-huh uh, no, no , no, not to be admitted I wish
it was no in terms of ranking.
Oh yeah, but he loved playing alot.
I remember the mathematicianguy.

(57:10):
I'll tell you and thissurprises me why government does
not really utilize some ofthese talents because this guy
would do a proper rocket sciencekind of stuff.
You know, uh, satellite design,because that's pure math oh, I
remember.
I think I know what you'retalking about, like science
congress no, no, no those twoscience things that you know not
even science proper, proper umscientific stuff.

Speaker 4 (57:32):
So research, this guy was a proper ninja it's just
like he could not get 100.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
yeah, okay, and that's not one of the fanciest
school, but the guy was reallygood.
Like it's, it's like the way,but the guy was really good.
It's like the way I would say,you grasp stuff without
struggling.
So it was those two guys, Ithink.
I looked for them and tried towatch them and hear what was

(57:58):
their catch.
But this Joshua.
The difference between Joshuaand this other guy is that
Joshua used to get everything.
He made me English, madeEnglish like the guy but now
when?
I hear he was always number last, almost number last, in Form 1
and up to Form 2, term 1.
I'm like sometimes, or even ingeneral, I think there's no one

(58:21):
who is really bad.
It's just sometimes, if you'regiven enough time or there's
like a few funny moments thathappen you switch?
But some of us delay until it'stoo late.
Everyone is smart in general.
What did you get?
After all is said and done?

Speaker 4 (58:42):
Your boy passed.
For sure, I had to call myself.
People have stories outsidehere.
True, true.
But for sure, when I calledmyself for that retrospect I was
like I need to work on myselfto get into uni for sure.
So I remember the last examthat I did before KCSE was the
mock, and in my mock, from allthose good grades that I used to

(59:05):
get from 1 to 4, to 4, at thistime my best was a C+ but in
mock I'm already getting.
I'm seeing the Bs.
In fact I got a B+ and that'smock.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Mock is one of the hardest exams Toughest exams.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
And at that particular point I knew, yes,
I'd already surrounded myselfwith the right group, I'd set my
mind to succeed.
And, yeah, all said and done, Idid get a B+.
I missed an A minor, with onepoint for sure.
Yeah, but that was beautiful.
Great to actually get me intouni, for sure.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
So where did you go to?

Speaker 4 (59:42):
Yeah, so the Kenyan system Jab.
Decided you choose four,decided this guy is not too.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
You choose four and then they shake it.
They shake it.

Speaker 4 (59:53):
And when the nini becomes, still, that's what
you're going to study.
So remember we were talkingabout the cutoff points, yeah,
yeah, and physics being arequirement for you to do
computer science.
So when I'm going to the portal, anything computer science is
blacklisted for my name Reasonbeing yes, you have a good grade
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
You guys even used to have portal yeah, but I was.
You are the best guys who livedthe best life, because for us,
you had to wait for two years.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
But lucky you guys.
Look at you guys.
At least you didn't have to loginto something and see you.
Have you been rejected?
Yeah, because I will tell you,I did search for computer
science.
Cut off, no, no, cut off much.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Subject requirement entry zero, because I didn't do
physics.
Nowadays they're thattransparent yeah I didn't do
physics.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Uh, now, because I can't do computer science, we
start looking for anything thatis computer related.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
BBIT.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
BBIT business, something, something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
ICT.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
ICT information library for CG?
What for library?
What Procurement informationsystems?
That is, the final courses thathave information technology as
part of the NINIA and, honestly,the ones that I would gain
entry for was Library Somethingin Jai.

(01:01:13):
Kwat and, I think, ku.
At this time I also consultedmy cousin.
He went to TUC and my cousindid journalism.
So he told me you can actuallyapply to TUC, choose even
journalism.
He said choose even, but in myears I heard choose journalism.

(01:01:35):
And then now when you getinside you can actually do a
transfer and you need to, youknow, to another program.
So I did that.
First option took journalism.
Second option, library,something, ku, and then I think
that MPR procurement, thegovernment.
I think there were two scandalsin the government and guys were

(01:01:58):
getting rich throughprocurement yeah, so anybody in
that?
year was like procurement wasthe thing.
So procurement, even even me,the adoption, get rich real
quick.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
KU.
I think three months in theNini comes back where you've
been called.
Yeah, the results.
And yeah, I landed in Tukjournalism yeah.
Nice, so quick, quick admissionday.
We did orientation, I thinklike a month in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Then was it a university or still a political
no?

Speaker 4 (01:02:31):
they had just received accreditation, I think
a month late after we joined.
So my later head was TechnicalUniversity of Kenya.
But even on orientation day,everybody, if you say Tuk,
nobody will understand youpeople want to say Kenyapoli
yeah.
So we went through that andthen I think a month in they had

(01:02:51):
opened that inter-facultyinter-nini school transfer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Inter-faculty transfer.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Yeah, quick, quick.
Who's going there?

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Chief himself yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Well, I'm working with confidence.
I see I have nini, I havegrades and mind you, wait before
I join you we escaped Immobilis.
You guys first remember yes,yes yes, so we after high school
.
That kagapo is still waitingfor you to be accepted.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
You guys used to wait for a few months yeah, I think
it was two years.
Kaka is two years and you don'tknow what your fate is.
Yes, your project, yes, yes,yes, yes.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
You don't know if you are going to igaton in, uh, the
end of the world or the otherone is mason or what is it in
kisumu, yeah, yeah so I rememberI told you I had an option here
at least I had a plan if unifails.
Immobilis was there for me, butthe court that I was supposed
to join, I didn't join in timebecause of that commercial

(01:03:52):
scholarship, you know africanparents will have everything
free.
Yeah, and you know I had to goand talk to my mom and tell you,
mom, you know, instead for forme, for paying for me computer
packages, which I alreadystudied that's computer science,
because computer studies inschool you can give me the other
part of the money.

(01:04:12):
I joined this Immobilis thing.
First my mom does not evenunderstand this thing.
She knows his son has a plan todo something and I think she
had to go and talk it out withone of her friends.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Is this Immobilis a school.
School yeah, because nobodyknows about it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
You know, nobody knows about it.
And then, who says scholarship?
Partial africans are you?
If you're saying, scholarshipis?
Scholarship is full.
We don't understand exactly.
so yeah, my mom did talk it outwith her friends as she narrates
the story to me nowadays, andthe friend was like why not?

(01:04:51):
Because again, if you're goingto pay for computer packages,
you will also use some money forthat.
And since he already knows thatthat's what she wants to do,
you go look for some money andtake him.
So I joined the next cohortlater.
Go look for some money and takehim.
So I joined the next cohortlater and, mind you for sure,
that was like a reignite, morelike a spark, a foundation to my

(01:05:15):
career now Because, remember, Ialready know what I want to
study.
Now, immobilist is here toactualize that dream, because
now I get into class the firstlanguage I've been taught is
html.
Yeah, and now I'm practicing itwith css oh, and we're adding
bootstrap on top of it, so thevanilla on the cake that was a

(01:05:35):
topping crazy recipe yes,bootstrap beautified everything
that we used to create on top ofour website yeah so the course,
you know, immobilize was calledmit.
So in most, most times, when Itell people I did MIT, they
think I went to MIT, the uni,but it's called Mobile
Entrepreneurship, somethingTechnology, and the key focus of
that program is you learn web,you learn mobile.

(01:05:59):
So it was actually web andmobile, together with some soft
skills, communication skills andentrepreneurial skills.
So at this point in time I ampositioning myself either I am
getting into employment or I amgoing to use, because I'm a very
visionary.
I realize I'm quite a visionaryperson.

(01:06:20):
I come up with ideas and again,since I have software as my
sidekick here because I can goand read those instructions and
actually actualize it as abusiness model, I actually went
out and built something as partof my school project and I
didn't wait for the lecturer tocome and teach us more concepts.
I'll go and learn the fewintroductory concepts, and then

(01:06:40):
YouTube used to be there.
So, guys for School of Life,you know YouTube and our
favorite guys, dr Punjabs, guysfrom India.
So welcome to my YouTubetutorial.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
You start learning the accent.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
Welcome to CSS 101.
Yeah, so I used to go andcompliment what I learned in
class together with that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Yeah, we'll be learning zeros and ones, so
that's normal.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
Yeah, that was fine, and you know learning zeros and
ones, so that's normal.
Yeah, that was fine, and youknow, at this point, also
Indians by the way, seriously,they're taking over the world.
But go ahead, they should bepaid honestly, I feel like those
guys were meant to teach theworld these things.
Yeah, so yeah, at this point intime, I'm building solutions
already I have an app and atthis time also Google.

(01:07:28):
I'm building solutions alreadyI have an app, and at this time
also Google is coming up withsome interesting programs.
The startup world is alsoigniting in the Nairobi
ecosystem.
Ihub is also coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
That's when.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
I had started building communities.
Now this is now when I'm evennow getting myself inside the
communities.
I start attending events iniHub.
I meet people who share thesame concepts.
This time uni, I think Istarted my first semester.
I'm learning journalism now.
But before Apotook, when thefaculty transfer came, when I

(01:08:00):
went and applied for it, Iwalked into the deputies
academic affairs DVC, something.
And I still have a beef to thatguy for sure, because I walked
in and I told him hi, my name isso-and-so, my dad has sent me.
Yeah, because you know, thistime also, my dad knew the VC,

(01:08:25):
they knew each other, they kneweach other.
So even before this, thisinterfactory transfer knowledge
was actually coming from the VCto my dad.
Telling my dad, tell your sonto come.
So that was internal information.
Yes, now me, I'm going therewith confidence, knowing ah see,
it's Africa.
If you don't know anybody, whoknows anybody?
My dad knows you Somebody?
Where are you going?

(01:08:45):
So me, anybody who knows,anybody that knows somebody,
where are you going?
Yeah, so I'm here.
I walked into that guy's officeand I tell him uh, so, uh, I
want to do bbit, I want totransfer and do bbit yeah he's
like show me your transcript, Igive it out.
Uh, he scans it one minute.
He's like you didn't do physics, I'm like, but I did computer,
your problems come back.
But I did computer.
He's like you didn't do physics, I'm like but I did computer,

(01:09:07):
your problems come back.
But I did computer.
He's like yeah, I know, but youdidn't do physics.
You're like so you know my dad.
And then I'm like I'm gonna putthat line for you know my dad.
You know my dad is the one whosent me here.
Then I told me I don't havetime for you get out of my
office.
And it was at that particularpoint in time.

(01:09:27):
You realize that I knewoperating a camera with all
those bent angles.
Now you know, hey, it's nowjournalism 101.
Yeah, now they're teachingcamera operating class a course.
Yeah, tilting and spanning,zoom in, zoom out.
It had to be done.
One guy in our departmentactually told me you can

(01:09:48):
actually do this journalismcourse.
We also have some computingelements, elements inside eyes
on the, is it, but not thecomputer I wanted was not what
they were offering, becausethere was no programming in what
journalism was just how to you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
you know the few editing softwares, moving
folders, copying, exporting.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
And I think at that point in time I had to make my
parents happy I had passed inhigh school.
I've been called to dojournalism.
I actually did picture myselfbeing a journalist.
Yeah, I was going to read yournews guys.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
You had started perfecting pronunciation.

Speaker 4 (01:10:27):
Yes, in fact, on my third, third year, I knew what I
wanted to do you did journalismup to third year, you realize
no one knows your father.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
It's your father who knows people at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
I have to be another Mr Nyangueso because, him, he
has built up his life to wherehe is and now I have to build.
I have to be another MrNyangueso because, yeah, him he
has built up his life to wherehe is.
Yeah, and now I have to buildup.
I knew, I had to knew now.
It's time for me now to buildup a bed.
Kaka, I didn't know about this,about you.
Hey bro, I used to marginalizehim up to third year.
Yeah, all through.
Yes, and I knew now when we didthis class for presentation,

(01:11:06):
where you have to hold a mic andnow read news in Kiswahine.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
So you wanted to be on the other side of the camera.
Well, I love operations.

Speaker 4 (01:11:16):
I love production, but now when they gave me the
mic to practice, that was mytoughest class.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Because now you cannot, because you know you
need to come with a script theequipment that the school had.

Speaker 4 (01:11:27):
we didn't have a teleprompter that you'll read
from.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
So this was like high school journalism 101.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
You go and write your own things there and then you
go and present.
Do you want to be the guy forNikiri Pote kutoka?

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
What is that guy's name?
The guy that Ruto was saying isover reporting was that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
I don't know his name , I don't know, but one of those
guys you, I know, you'vewatched the news the ones who
will give after you know thenews goes through, they'll be
like reporting from the news yes, Mark Moss, no, no, there's
another guy Anyway you decided.
I don't want to be that guy.

(01:12:08):
Yeah for sure.
So I knew if I was going to endup as a broadcast journalist,
it's either I'm going to be anews anchor, not a reporter,
because at least the curriculumyou know, you said that you end
up as a news anchor, a newsreporter, either you end up in

(01:12:29):
the how do you call it?
The newspaper, by the way, thatkind of newspaper, when you see
it like that, remember they'relike another they're like all 50
journalists who've writtenstories inside there and they
have not made it there.
They have professions, you guyswho have been in the industry
for 15 years, 20 years, to get acolumn on the first page.
It either means you are somesenior editor to get your work

(01:12:55):
even inside the newspaper.
That was hard for me, honestly.
It was I knew writing not forme.
News reporter not for me so.
I knew I was either going to endup if I had to be in front of a
camera.
I'm going to be a news anchor,which for now things change, by
the way, Not everybody looksgood in camera.

(01:13:17):
But then I knew I had a voice.
Oh, okay, for radio?
Yes, I did.
I had a voice for radio, so Iknew, if things go on like this,
my dad knows someone, who knowssomeone?

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
No, I told you, it's about who knows your dad, not
who your dad knows.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
But my dad knew someone, who knows someone, in
case, but did they know, youRadio Africa Bro me I was ready
Third year.
I was like me, I'll just go andreplace Shafiweru, or they give
me like a side gig.
Kube, even for your voice to beheard in radio, you also have
to come from somewhere.
You just don't come fromnowhere and become a big guy you

(01:13:54):
should have a following.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Yeah, so there was that you should be good at
creating scandal more than youcan speak over the mic.

Speaker 4 (01:14:01):
Yeah, but then one thing for sure is that my dream
to become a software engineerdidn't go away.
You are still here all thistime.
I am pursuing.
I am pushing through with mydegree program.
So when we met were you stilldoing journalism, I think I did.
The first time I came for anatlasian meetup.
I was actually in my third year.
When you guys were in NairobiDesign School.

(01:14:24):
What was it?
Bishombugwa, the one that wasat the Grand Floor.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Yes, Nairobi Design School yeah, it wasn't higher,
but there was a design schooldown there.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
Yeah, I was in my third year at that particular
point in time.
But yeah, and remember thistime also in my software world.
I do not want to be employed.
Oh, you want to be anentrepreneur.
I built products.
I built an app world.
I do not want to be employed.
Oh, you want to be anentrepreneur.
I am.
I build products.
I built an app calledhealthcare ke in fact the first
name will be queen.
I don't know.
I actually built an ambulanceselling application yeah that

(01:14:56):
was the first time and I evenpitched it.
Uh, facebook.
I just started running thisprogram called uh.
What was it called again?
F8.
Does this developer communityfor facebook that?
Was there, facebook developerstarted running this program
called F8.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
There's this developer community for Facebook
.
Facebook developer circleCircles yes.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
So I had applied for they had a grant and I went and
pitched the concept.
I was actually number one inAfrica.
And then now the final runner'sup.
I didn't make it because Ididn't follow up with that in
the presentation, but yeah, thatgot me enough cash to actually
build that.
And then now the final runner'sup.
I didn't make it because Ididn't follow up with that in
the presentation, but yeah, thatgot me enough cash to actually
build that.
And it was the first time I wasnow earning as an entrepreneur
from something that I've done,so you realize this is real.

(01:15:35):
Yeah, that's the first timeI've made my first 5K, as Grant
was like you know, we see wherethis can go and you building it
on top of facebook, yeah, sohere is 5k for you yeah and
anybody will come talkingemployment to me.
I'll be like shush mimi, I wantto build a startup.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Don't want to be a slave, so I used to and actually
the good thing with I have theyhad built up this startup
ecosystem yeah, those peoplethere was, people actually
started with people 22 orsomething yes, I did a play for
pivot sometime, but I thinkbecame pivotist because it was
involved in this.
Yes, when I can actually knowwhat they are.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
Yeah, yeah, hey, shout out to sheila we need to
do a podcast.
She's around, she's in theecosystem, but there was another
lady, I think she went tosafari, com or something.
Group something when I havealso.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Yeah, there's some girl I think.
Yeah, she's head of thedevelopers there.
Yes, she's part of ushaidi yesyes, yes, yes, jessica collasso.
Actually I worked withjessica's sister.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
Yeah, I also worked with jessica's sister, okay, but
yeah, that was, that was fun,for sure, and are some of the
amazing ladies who really buildup that, because Sheila was at
M-Lab, so after you guys createdfor Pivot.
And then they absorbed in M-Lab.
Yeah, Give you an office.

(01:16:58):
you know more of likeacceleration, so it's kind of
solid, yeah, and I think, forsure me, I have did create those
opportunities.
And then this is out to anybodywho's trying to get out into
that particular space If youfind yourself you love software
and you are visionary, you wantto build a concept around it and
you don't know where to start,look for these communities, look

(01:17:21):
for this.
I know I have is still there,and I know the other bigger ones
that actually came.
You know Ushahidi, and thereare always so many of them that
are still trying to set up, andnow there's even the startup
world.
There's a lot of grants andthings that you can actually
apply into.
So, get into that.
Try to shape your idea, thatapp that you've built, into a
business.
Yeah, because, for sure, let metell you, employment is not for

(01:17:45):
everybody.
Yes, it's not for everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
This might actually be your ticket you're the first
person who adds uh, say thatstatement in the rest yeah, what
I've always been hearing thatentrepreneurship is not for
everybody so, even if employmentis not for everyone,

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
it's not for everyone , for sure, it's not for
everyone.
Explain, well, uh, okay, thankyou for putting me in the spot
for that one, but anyway, anyway, for sure.
Let me bring you back.
Okay, let me give you a casescenario.
I'm sure you bought milk andbread from a shop.
Yes, yes, have you ever hadtime to talk to your shopkeeper?

(01:18:18):
Just to understand theirbackground academically, how
good they were, even uni.
You'll be surprised that mostof them actually went to uni.
But then, yes, it's one thingthat employment is an issue even
uni You'll be surprised thatmost of them actually went to
uni.
But then, yes, it's one thingthat employment is an issue in
the African ecosystem it's sohard for companies to absorb new
talent nowadays from university.

(01:18:39):
But then there's also thatfactor that you know and that's
what's happening with most ofthe people, I'm sure, when
someone who's listening rightnow.
You have your degree, you'retrying to apply for gigs, you're
trying to get into the techecosystem, you're applying and
your email is full ofunfortunately we regret to
inform you.
Please apply after six months,and it doesn't mean that You're

(01:19:05):
not good enough.
You're not good enough and youknow that some of these things
will actually shut our innerself and we'll feel like no but
then have you ever tried to lookat it, flip the coin on the
other side and just tellyourself, maybe employment is
not ready for me right now?
Let me try out building aconcept out of this idea,
because you do have a product.
The product that you have doesprovide value to your customers,

(01:19:30):
yeah, so if you can bring inthe business and the
entrepreneurial spirit into thesame, you could actually
monetize your application andactually build a business out of
it.
Yes and employ people and employpeople and be more kinder,
exactly, yeah, so that's exactlywhat I mean, for, like you know
, employment is not foreverybody.
Actually, you trying outentrepreneurship can actually

(01:19:53):
work out for you, and even mycase study for the shopkeeper I
was trying to go with this.
My shopkeeper used to tell me,rather, that this shop that you
see me selling you bread andmilk, for this shop pays my rent
, it takes my children to school.
I have money to still go onvacation and I still have a
savings account and I'm buildingsomewhere else.

(01:20:13):
You, you're employed, you'reprobably living hand to mouth
with your salary because, again,salaries are meant for you to
come back and you know you'llnever be paid enough to make you
not come back.
But if you try entrepreneurship,if it works well for you.
Again and I also agree with youwhen you said guys also say it
the other way Entrepreneurshipis not for everybody, maybe

(01:20:35):
employment, but just try to seewhere you land.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
True, true, yeah.
By the way, thank you forexplaining that, because it
gives people a differentperspective about
entrepreneurship.
And, by the way, when I thinkabout a shop.
You know there's someoneclosely, I know that ever
started a shop.
But eventually they realizedthat the profits there is like
two bob, five bob.
Imagine how many breads do youneed to sell to make a thousand

(01:21:00):
bob.
To make a thousand bob, forsure Like five Now when you
think about that, you should bea bakery, or?

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
something For sure yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
And sometimes you know the stock doesn't move as
fast, so you consume the stock.
So there's a lot, but thatexplanation really is really
important.
So you start now learning thesethings participating in
competition.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
Yeah, I start participating in those, and
that's when I meet you, and thenthat's now and I meet Mike and
then your life turns at thispoint when I'm meeting, mike is
introducing things calledatlasian to me.
I feel like the first threesessions that I went I was just
floating, yeah, big up to IanJuma I think he's called Ian

(01:21:44):
Juma the white guy with I thinkhe was at 80, yeah he

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
was at 80, yeah, so I used to shout out Ian, ian we
need to.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
I know Ian is one guy .
You cannot find him if youdon't know where to look, of
course, but Ian, if you listento this we need to do something
talk about these experiences.
That guy man is a genius, forsure you know people know the
guys who really expressthemselves and put themselves
out there for guys to know themyeah but me I know like maybe
it's two percent of the guysthat people know they are good

(01:22:15):
for me.
On my side at least in kenya, Iknow 98 percent of guys, yeah,
who most people don't know forsure, since back in the day you
know before yeah I startedbuilding communities, there were
still guys who were solid someof them, of course, died.
But yeah, sorry to say this,but that's the truth, it's life,
it happens, but there arereally guys who are really solid
yeah so Ian Juma actually isone of them.

(01:22:38):
There are a couple of them andover time you will hear their
story because everyone hasreally an interesting story
around it, yeah uh-huh.
So yeah, juma comes andpresents, yeah, this guy is
presenting things.

Speaker 4 (01:22:50):
They are cicd pipelines I'm like me, I've just
learned android yeah, and hdmiand you guys are talking about
these pipelines me.
I just know how to package thisup on my laptop and upload it
on play store.
You know, that was just me yeahbut then now I realized okay, so
there are different venues ofacquiring knowledge and actually

(01:23:10):
trying to improve what you'vebuilt.
I now realize software does nothave an end.
There's always going to be aniteration of perfection, making
it better and adding value toyour customers and yeah, that's
when I also get to meet you andthen now associating with people
who also drive the same value.
Again, looking back, that doesshape where I am right now.

(01:23:32):
That was your funny moment.
Better explanation you did notgraduate right, oh for
journalism I did not, you werelike to hell with it.
Not really.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
I don't drop school so what happened, did you?

Speaker 4 (01:23:48):
go back and graduate or no?
No, no, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
I'm thinking of going back, though, oh but, I don't
know, if I know, did you do yourmaster's?
I tell you, this chief here isa master's graduate so um but
anyway, let's not go there.

Speaker 4 (01:24:01):
So you start.
Uh, you'll tell us when we getthere.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Yeah, so you now start taking software
engineering properly, yes, andappreciating the concept of
proper software engineering,correct?
Did you have to relearneverything?

Speaker 4 (01:24:14):
there was that, because yeah there's kubernetes,
there's cisc bucket pipelineyeah, because again, like what
they teach you in school andwhat you're going to do in the
industry, you realize you don'tknow anything sideline.
The university is just supposedto teach you the principles and
guide you how to learn howthese things, the foundations
and the history In other wordsthey teach you how to learn.

(01:24:36):
And then now life, all the workexperience now teaches you how
to create and build problems.
So there was that.
I think there was a time whereI had to, like, now start
thinking do I want to, uh, do Iwant to go back to uni do
computer science as an undergradand then come back later and

(01:24:56):
continue, or do I want to do XYZ?
Yeah, so I got into.
No, I was actually pitching inan event and, uh, the CEO for
MTBA, I think, was there yeahand then after the talk, the
first time we met, yeah, thefirst time we met it was like,

(01:25:17):
yeah, we're building thissolution in a healthcare
solution in Kenya called MTBAblah blah blah.
I didn't take it serious,because even me, I'm trying to
set up my condition and also tobecome I didn't take it serious
because even me I'm trying toset up my recognition and I want
also to become a competitor,and then I used to be a guy for
hackathons.
When hackathons will come, youwill find me there, and I'm
there because I know I have asolution and I either want to

(01:25:38):
win money or just push time.
And then there was a hackathonby Mtiba again, but this time
they had branded it as Kiape.
Kiape is the company and Mtibais the product.
Pause.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
So, now that you're talking about the hackathon,
tomorrow we have our hackathonat Africa Leadership University,
in partnership with AfricaStalking, here in Kigali, rwanda
, the whole day.
So if you know someone andyou're listening and they could
come to this hackathon, pleaseencourage them.
Mk will be there, sylvia Dibetwill be there, douglas himself,

(01:26:13):
dagi, the full-stack engineer atAfrica Stocking, will be there.
Amongst many other good, goodengineers, this chief himself
will be there.
I will.
You're all welcome.
It's free.
Free, just make your way to ALU8 am and come and build with us
.

Speaker 4 (01:26:32):
Please go on yeah, so the hackathon yeah yeah so I go
to KAP offices yeah it's a 24hour hackathon.
Yeah, so we hack through thenight.
I think at that time it wassupposed to integrate to some of
the MT by APIs APIs and thenbuild an app around it.
Now here's the catch the winnerfor the hackathon was supposed

(01:26:53):
to be given an internship andthen at the end of the hackathon
would be awarded the smartwatch, something to enter that
certificate.
So at that time I wastechnically good to build a
product, but then when it cameto pitching I was struggling.
So at the end of the hackathonI did not win, I got a
certificate and yeah, see me, Idisappeared.

(01:27:15):
I'm like this didn't work outfor me.
The internship, blah, blah,blah, blah.
But then me, I go MIA for awhile.
I still continue building mystartup here and I'm also
pursuing my degree forjournalism.
But then later on I figuredthere's this one number that
keeps calling me a month in, Ithink something happened to my
line.
I don't remember.
I probably lost my phone orsomething, but then when I

(01:27:38):
called the number, I wasactually in a bus heading to
town and she's like hi, this isEmily.
Hr at KAP, it is Victor.
I'm like hi, this is Emily.
Hr at.
Carepay.
It is Victor.
I'm like, yeah, this is Victor.
So, victor, I have somegoodness for you.
I've been trying to reach outto you for a while.
Yeah.
Our CTO went through yourassessment for the hackathon and

(01:27:59):
we want to offer you aninternship position at CarePay.
Yeah.
It's going to be a.
We are not going to pay, likeshe tried explaining the full
contract on the phone?
Probably she knew that I didn'thave a phone and there's not
going to be time again.
It's probably like those dayswhere you guys used to send.
What do you think those thingsare called, roger?
The tele Fax Telegrams?
You're like mom's sick.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
Come home, oh everything To save on the cost,
how she was pushing everythinginside.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
But then you know there are people who really
don't know things like fax andtelegram.

Speaker 2 (01:28:31):
Oh yeah, they were there and they were super
expensive to send, so you had tocompress it.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
But there were no phones that I knew you guys had
to write letters.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
I remember my that's where Twitter got the 150 or 160
characters concept.

Speaker 4 (01:28:46):
Yes, oh, that was the concept.
Yeah, yeah, that's where theygot the concept.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Like, whatever you have to say, you should be able
to say with this 160.
If Telegram it was shorter thanthat, then you should be able
to say whatever yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:28:58):
I feel like I've been struggling on Twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
And you don't worry about the grammar.
Yes, for sure.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
Yeah, I think it has been hard for me, but anyway,
the HR calls me, tells me you'reoffering your internship
position at KAPE.
They want you to come in.
So when are you free to startMe this time?
Because you know, the HR toldme there's no salary but you're
going to be given a stripping.
Yeah, and the stripping was 20k, 20.000 shillings.
Yes, this time me, I'm runningmy gumbaru startup.

(01:29:28):
I do not have money that iscoming from that site we call it
.
You're surviving, you have avision that is gonna work out
for you, yeah, but then there'sno money at that particular
point in time.
And now I'm this woman iscalling me to persuade me with
20k.
Do I even have money?
that is a survival thing.
And then I'm like you said, yousaid you said 20k.

(01:29:51):
It's like yeah, but it will betaxed, so you'll be getting like
16.
Ah, I'm like, ah, okay, when amI starting?
Like uh, when you're ready.
It's like are you free, likenext week?
I'm like yeah, so you can starton monday next week, by all
means I'm coming.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
So yeah, that's how I entered out I ended up without
knowing is there's a guy whopitched this idea, which turns
out to be cappy of course but Inow later come to meet the ceo
because when I joined as anintern, yeah, I was part of the
retail team.

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
it's like when you enter, okay, and then there's
sub, sub departments, yeah, team.
It's like when you enter andthen there's sub departments,
yeah.
So we're trying at that timethey're trying to push their
savings product through MT,because I think when they
started it was like you'll opena wallet, save up for your
healthcare and then whenever youget sick, so the thing the
catch was if you save up to aparticular amount, we'll be

(01:30:43):
given bonuses, because Kiape hadpartnered with some NGOs who,
you know, bring in funds, yeah,and then so if you save like a
hundred, they'll give you 50 bob.
Yeah, if you save, ideally todrive the saving culture towards
healthcare yeah but then werealized that that was not gonna
work.
Yeah, to sustain Kiape as a as acompany, as a startup, and I
joined yeah but then, yeah, Iwas, I joined uh as an intern

(01:31:06):
yeah, I was working with theretail team and I was working
closely with CFO the CEO.
That is from.
Amsterdam or just Kenyan team.
So both my CEO and CFO wereDutch guys, so Case and Martin.
But those other guys alsoshaped me for sure.
I usually call them my big fouryeah yeah, so that was case.

(01:31:29):
Martin, steve miner, stevemayna, wherever you are, shut up
, we should, we should, catch upagain um, and then there was uh
, who else?
And barry, barry, ledgerware,something like that.
Sorry if I killed your name,barry, but Barry was the CTO, a

(01:31:50):
proper guy.
He's the guy who taught meproper coding skills.
Debugging Java.
Jvm Spring Boot 101 class.
Barry was the guy and I thinkwhen I joined it was more like
you go deep end in the ocean andthen swim your way towards the
shore.
We'll catch up.
That's how we used to learn,yeah.

(01:32:11):
And for sure that guy I usuallycall Keape.
It was my first job, becausethree months in I was confirmed
as a full-time software engineerand then I think, like six
months in, because again Istarted being good.
And also, like with my skills,from where I was coming in the
past, growing in the career wasquite easy for me.

(01:32:36):
So, intern software engineer, Ibecame a client engineer, which
meant now I needed to.
I was trusted with the carepage clients but then it's more
like a developer relations.
But then you still could yeah,yeah so this opened up new
markets for me.
Traveling into Amsterdam,traveling into Nigeria.
I think I'm proud to say Ibuild up KAPI Nigeria when it
actually started.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
I remember those days when we could speak and my my
other brothers yeah, so I did, Idid stay in Kiape.

Speaker 4 (01:33:06):
Yeah, intentionally.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
For three years yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:08):
For three years, and those three years were learning,
networks and learning, yeah,yeah.
Yeah.
So I think also within the thirdyear, I also started seeing,
because I started off likemobile developer I did backend,
I did frontend, I was full stack.
At some point, yeah, kuberneteseven came.

(01:33:29):
I did backend, I did frontend,I was full-stack.
At some point, kubernetes evencame.
I was like ah, I think the goodthing, now my region is coming
into also.
Now we're shifting from runningour instances on an ECS machine
.
We're moving them intoKubernetes.
I think of all the softwaredevelopment team it either me
and barry who knew kubernetesyeah like we took the knowledge

(01:33:50):
to go and learn it.
Yeah, so guys used to come andconsult me and then I was like
by the, instead of having towrite java every day, or rather
just writing your solutions andthen let barry write your cicd
pipelines and deploy that intoan ecs cluster on amazon.
Uh see, I can.
Classed on Amazon.
See, I can also with thatintrigue.
How do you call it?
You want to know?

(01:34:11):
Curiosity.
Curiosity, exactly.
So out of curiosity, I was likeI want to know the code that I
write.
How does it end up inproduction?
Now that's opening up thingsfor me.
Cicd pipelines how do you writethem?
I was building on top ofBitPacket and now you remember
Atlassian sessions.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
I used to get those cool swag the t-shirts.

Speaker 4 (01:34:35):
So I'll go to the office and then I'm like I'm the
coolest guy around.
Even the city was like.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
I like that t-shirt, I'm like you see me, you feel me
, bro.

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
Yeah, so there was that and yeah, so out of
curiosity, I, I did choose thatpath.
Yeah, so now devops interestyeah, and for sure, barry was my
sidekick because it was likeyou wanna, if you wanna learn it
, why not?
Yeah, I mean, if the other guysin the team don't want to learn
, but you feel like you wannalearn it, yeah, you can as well

(01:35:04):
do it, yeah.
So yeah, I now saw the fulljourney of building your, you
know, writing uh a feature.
Let's say you're working on anapi.
Yeah, packaging that into yourcicd pipeline, running your test
, taking that into uh sourcecontrol to scan quality checks

(01:35:24):
using sauna or any other tool ofyour choice, uh, putting that
into docker as an image.
Controlization was actuallyjust coming up as a concept at
that particular time, so I didland docker.
Yeah, I wrote my first eicdpipeline, actually modified the
existing one because, again, thegood way to learn it is by
breaking it.
Yeah, yeah, as long as youdon't break it in production,

(01:35:45):
which is also fine, because,trust me, they said, you will
have to break something inproduction.
We call it chaos engineeringmost of this concept.
You grasp them through thecommunity engagements yes,
community engagements and thenalso that drive of having to
learn something new.
I did set out a focus formyself.
Yes, I am building features,but then I'm also going to

(01:36:07):
create time for personaldevelopment, to know what's
happening outside there.
How are these big companiesdoing it and how can I also be
part of a community where youknow, they show you how to do
these things?
And for me, my knowledge is notjust attending those events, it
was more like after that I wantto come back and implement
these things in Kiape and alsoso that they see I'm adding

(01:36:29):
value so it was more of a day today practice.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Yes, so that's how I went about it for sure and chief
that actually cleared a path towork for people like Bring
Global.
How was that experience as abackend engineer?

Speaker 4 (01:36:45):
well, so this time I'm leaving kia peak yeah I feel
like I've grasped startingknowledge to move me because,
also, like I'd walked into thehealthcare industry for a while
yeah, so this is three years ofkia pay.
Remember I told you I wasbuilding my startup.
Yeah, those also under threeyears.
My startup, also in healthcare.

(01:37:05):
Another three years of mystartup, also in healthcare.
So I wanted to changeindustries and, uh, at this
point in time also, uh, at cafe,what was happening is I also
decided to become I.
I told myself, I want to becomea specialist, or rather an
expert in one particular area,because I was full stack yeah so
I said I wanted to focus onbackend infrastructure, so

(01:37:28):
building backend APIs and alsoputting that on cloud, yeah,
deploying that into amulti-cloud environment, all
these kind of things.
So that was now my focus.
Yeah, so I joined Bring.
I come in as a senior backendengineer.
Bring was they were actuallybuilding financial systems.
Yeah, they had partnered withthis organization called
Backbase.
I think that was the platformthat most banks do yeah, bring
was they're actually buildingfinancial systems.

(01:37:48):
Yeah, they are partnered withthis organization called back
base and that was a platformthat most banks do yeah so they
have already curated most of thesolutions for banks.
So if you're, I think, banksalso moving into the digital era
, so like from internet bankinginto mobile banking so they
already build up thesecomponents.
All you need to do is sign acontract with them and then now
us, the developers that bring wenow customize.

(01:38:11):
Yes exactly Now.
We will customize that softwareas a service to meet your size
and taste for your applicationsand also integrate it also with
your legacy systems.
Now to you know, pull in thetransactions and all that things
.
So yeah, my first client wasStunt Big Bank of Ghana.
Oh nice.
And I think six months down inI was actually working with a

(01:38:31):
guy called Gordon.
Today I'm giving everybodytheir flowers.
So me and Gordon did pull outthat project.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
But this is not the Gordon from high school.

Speaker 4 (01:38:44):
No, no, no, this is not Gordon, that was called
Stephen Gondi.
Okay, stephen Gondi.

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
Actually, I've gotten the mathematician name Samuel
Wako.
Yes, Very brilliant champ, yeah, from Northeastern, you know
Northeastern you need to visitthere, kaka, I think the last
time before Corona andeverything you were supposed to
go to Lodwa was to go to.
Lodwa.
And, by the way, one thing thatI want to tell people once you
realize the value of community,you also became one of the main

(01:39:11):
speakers in these events tryingto nurture more abilities.

Speaker 4 (01:39:14):
Other people yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
so anyone listening, don't just come to communities
to take, just also give once youyou know, you have had enough.

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
Yeah, for sure you have to give back?
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
Yeah, so you started building.

Speaker 4 (01:39:26):
Stand Big with the yeah, we built Stand Big Bank of
Ghana six months in.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Yeah, that is the digital side of things.

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
Yes, Now at least Stand Big Bank.
I know guys in Ghana are usingthe mobile app to transact.
That was us.
We're the ones who built thebackend side of it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:41):
Is he a Kenyan?
I think I'm forgetting hisother name.

Speaker 4 (01:39:50):
I'll find it.
Yeah, but me and Godd on theback end.
And then there's some figureswe're building on the Android
and iOS side of things.
By six months in we got theproduct out.
The client was happy.
Bring also like a consultancycompany, so once one project is
off, they'll get you intoanother project At this point I
think.

(01:40:10):
The second project was an appfor the Central Bank of Portugal
.
It's called CDG, so I did buildup some of those components,
but in total I did work andbring, I think, two years or one
and a half One of those, and Ialso had to call it goodbye.
That was financial sector, sofrom healthcare into financial

(01:40:31):
sector.
Yeah, and then, after Bring, Idid join the big company.
No, actually, yes, I remember.
So I also from Bring.
I did join a company in the USit's called Wiseline, also a
software technology consultingcompany.

(01:40:51):
My first client with them wasFaxet in the UK.
I did help them as a.
I joined them as a senior sitereliability engineer.
So at this point, remember, I'mdigressing from the software
world where I actively build onthe back end, and now moving
fully into infrastructuremonitoring, security

(01:41:11):
observability, yeah, yeah, andautomating how they actually
build their tools.
on data, so Sopaxit is actuallyone of the biggest data mining
companies in the world yeah,yeah, and as part of a small
team, and ideally, what our teamused to do is that if you're a
client, you will go and requesta particular data.
Let's say you're a startup whereyou want some insights, you

(01:41:33):
just go and tell Fox hey, wewant this data.
They will go and mine that datafor you and then, once they get
the data, they will send arequest to our team to provision
the infrastructure that willhold that data a database, the
infrastructure that will holdthat data, a database, the
software that was running toread that data from the DB and
then they'll share thecredentials with the customer.

(01:41:54):
So that was the bit of work thatmy team was doing, but when I
joined, all these things weremanual, so it was a manual call
hey, create for us this, putthis data inside there.
Once you're ready, share withus the DB, urls and everything.
So the value that I was comingto bring to Faxit for me, for
sure, because I didn't stay forlong, like three months was

(01:42:16):
automation.
So all I just needed to do wasbuild something simple out of it
.
So anytime they will make a newrequest, that request will come
through the API that I built.
This request will create.
I had a script that I'd writtenyeah, and this script will
write Terraform code that nowwill provision the database
itself and once the DB is ready,we'll load data into it and it

(01:42:41):
will give you back the URL whichwe'll now give the customers.
So it was like a directintegration.
So, once you get the data, justcall our API, we'll give you
the DB and everything.
All said and done and for sure,I will tell you those who want
to seek to join employment.
For sure, in tech or any placethat you're going to work into,
your employer wants value.
The moment you start givingthem value, you'll hear good

(01:43:03):
deals coming to you?
So by the time in my threemonths in?
Are good deals coming to you soby the time in my three months
in?
The reason why I chose to leaveat this particular point was
they were using a differentstack that was foreign to me, so
they were using Python as theirmain stack.
I was coming from the Java sideof the world, but then again,
it doesn't hurt to learnsomething new.
But then was I ready to pick upPython at that particular point

(01:43:24):
in time?
Yes, I was, but not fully.
I didn.
Another particular point intime yes, I was, but not fully.
Okay, I didn't see it growingout of me, yeah.
So, yeah, I decided to call theto pull the plug, now resigning
, and at this point in time mymanager was in the uk.
He calls me and tells me victor, we want to offer you a
full-time opportunity at fax ityes, because of this value that

(01:43:45):
you're giving us, because beforethis used to be manual calls.
I don't know how you understandthe impact of the value brought
to us.
This used to be manual callsthat guys would call and then
you'll have to put guys throughthe night to provision this.
But the fact that now people areable to we've automated this.
It means that if a billioncompanies come, these requests
will be provisioned at the sametime and these guys will get

(01:44:07):
that through automation, likeyeah, man, do you want to come
to the uk and join us?
At this point in time, uh,journalism thing is backfiring.
How it's backfiring is cause,uh, in public universities, a

(01:44:29):
lot of strikes that happen, andin this time, I think there's
one of those.
But these are for hours.
Guys are not paid school fees.
And the school said if you havenot paid your fees by this
particular date, you're notgoing to do your exams.
And I was a victim.
I didn't pay that day, but Ithink I paid on the weekend.
So I expected that on MondayI'll do my examinations.

(01:44:49):
But here we were blocked fromthe gate.
We were like you're not goingto do your exams, and what do
you say to Kenyan students?
So guys vandalized the school.
It was proper Closed.

Speaker 2 (01:45:01):
Vandalized.
Like it was indefinitely.

Speaker 4 (01:45:10):
We were actually suspended from school for an
entire academic year exams.
Yes, everybody who was sentwould into the examination
square, suspended by the schoolindefinitely for one academic
year.
Yeah, but now, this time, Ihave to call myself again and do
a retrospect.
What am I going to do in thisone year?
Yes, I am at kiape, I'm workingas an intern.
Blah blah, I can't go.

Speaker 3 (01:45:26):
This is happening uh, uk, it's not even coming up yet
, okay, so in this one year.

Speaker 4 (01:45:28):
Yes, I am at KIAPE, I'm working as an intern, blah
blah.
I can't go to UK.
This is happening.
Uk has not even come up yet.
Okay, so in this particulartime, I think over the few
months I had, I went and did anintrospect and I got a course in
USIU that a friend recommendedme, so I did my undergrad in
USIU Okay.
So in this time when I'm doingmy undergrad already, yes, Okay,

(01:45:49):
so in this time when I'm doingmy undergrad already.
I do not want to hear anythingto do with relocation, because
my first degree backfired on me.
There's no way I don't wantanything to make me not finish
this one.
So, yeah, I didn't take theoffer from Faxet.
It was actually a good deal.
I chose to stay to finish mycourse.
It was again purely all goodvibes, all good reasons, and I
don't regret the reason behindit.

(01:46:11):
So yeah, months in fuck's sake,I get another client, I
interview with one of the bigbrands at the Walt Disney and I
think the same day I interviewedthis was through an agency,
through an agency Wiseline andthe same day I interviewed, I

(01:46:33):
actually got accepted oh, theysaid, you are in, come and do
this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:46:38):
They were like bro enter.

Speaker 4 (01:46:42):
Now I'm joining Disney.
I was part of the DMAT teamit's called Digital Media
Entertainment something and thisteam ideally my team used to
manage five Disney products.
That was Hulu, hbo, disney+,espn News, and I've said Hulu,
yeah, you said Hulu.

(01:47:03):
And HBO, yeah, yeah, all thoseare owned by Disney.
Yeah, oh, okay, there wasDisney's like an alphabet, okay,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
So All those are owned by Disney.
Yeah, oh, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:47:09):
The Walt Disney is like an alphabet.
Okay For Google.
So it's one of the fun guys.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
And then now it's also beneath.

Speaker 4 (01:47:15):
Beneath.
The other company that werebought by the Walt Disney is now
HBO Fox.
All these things.
Actually most Americanentertainment in here.
I won't buy the worst disney,yeah.
One is banone as something,yeah, so I got in, uh, into
disney yeah I joined them as asenior site liability engineer.

(01:47:39):
Yeah, but then the scope of work, apart from having to build and
have to stress aboutobservability, chaos engineering
, which is a new concept that iscoming to me, because now you
can imagine you streaming onthese platforms and one thing
that we do not want you, as acustomer, to experience is
latency, blamed on the company.
Availability of what you'rewatching missing out all those

(01:48:03):
things.
It's crazy man so my team has tohandle all that, yeah, and I
also have to be a visionary formy team to guide them through
that.
Yeah, yeah yeah and I will tellyou for sure that's when I got
introduced to management.
For sure, because my role was 50management, 50 percent being an
individual contributor yeah anduh, at this point in time, I am

(01:48:28):
working in a team of uh 20 sreengineers who report directly to
me.
Yes, yes, and part of these 20people.
These people are as old as mydad, so these guys have been in
the industry for a while soyou're not telling them anything
well, actually the guy.
One thing I can tell you forsure, at least me working with
them, I think also like again,growing up in my background, it

(01:48:51):
put me out for respect.
Yeah, yes, so again, work iswork.
How was that?
Like, work is work for sure, Iwill tell you being a manager.
When it comes to work, work iswork.
We need to work together anddeliver yeah I can carry it, I
can carry the weight for theteam.
But then if I, if I don't findyou productive for the team, I
have to call you up for it, andif you're not going to work, we

(01:49:13):
need to dispose you and getsomeone who's going to do it.
So there's that bit of comingfrom being an IC and now getting
into management.
But then we'll get into that.
So I joined Disney.
Those five products.
My KPI was actually to get Huluin.
Africa.
And I was supposed to sell itout in South Africa.

(01:49:35):
I think they must have launchedby now.
Yeah, but during that time itwas again deploying things
production crashing our servers.
You know, we'll actually writecode to go and destroy our
servers as they run, were theyset out like test or no.
This is actually people like.

(01:49:56):
This is.
This is now what you call chaosengineering by itself.
Yeah, because with chaosengineering, what you're trying
to achieve the main goal istrying to test your system for
availability and resiliency andso that if, by any chance,
someone attacks your server, youknow what to do, because you
know when you attack your server, the users who are streaming

(01:50:18):
from that server are blocked out.
Things to do with theavailability zone.
How does this?
If Mike is in Kenya and he'sstreaming this content from your
TV when it's actuallyconnecting to those servers
where you're streaming from, youwill actually find it's talking
to about 70 servers at the sametime.
That's just to block you fromnot experiencing resiliency and
all those latencies and allthese things.

(01:50:38):
So we'll actually buildsolutions to destroy our servers
and just test and see how readyare we as Disney for HBO, if
someone attacks our instances orsomething.
So, yeah, that was interestingfor a while.
I actually, bro, I lovedworking in that company.
It was amazing.
I did burn out for sure becauseI was working at different

(01:51:03):
times.

Speaker 2 (01:51:03):
I remember those days .
Yes, I used to work in.

Speaker 4 (01:51:05):
Nairobi.
My team were based in the US.
So from 5 pm you are.
I would stretch up to 3am inthe morning.
Of which even at times I wouldsleep, and I wake up at 6am to
go to the gym and someone isspamming my inbox either on
Slacks or email I have to go andreport and say what happened
while you were away.

(01:51:25):
Because this happened, thisservice is not available.
And I have to go and writewhat's that thing called.
Again, if something goes wrong,you have to go and write that
report.
I'm forgetting the name.
Basically it explains theincident, what happened, what
did you guys do Walk us throughevery minute At this point in

(01:51:46):
time?
Developer A was on call.
He did.
XYZ Developer B came and spoiledit.
But, then I came up at 6 am tocome and fix it.
So there was a lot of thatbureaucracy and all these things
for big companies, yeah, butfor me it was a learning lesson.
Yeah.
I did enjoy my time there.
Yeah, the experience wasamazing.
And yeah, again time comes.

(01:52:08):
You have to call out thecompany and say bye.
And yeah, that's where I amright now.
After that, I think two monthsin, I joined MasterCard.

Speaker 2 (01:52:19):
Nice, that is MasterCard.

Speaker 4 (01:52:20):
Nairobi.
Yes, I joined them throughMasterCard Labs in Kenya.
Oh very nice.
So still doing SRE there?
No, no, no.
So MasterCard very nice, sostill doing SRE there, no, no,
no.
So MasterCard came back, so Istill do it as part of the full
end solution.
Yeah Well, you know, nowadays,software engineer, your
expectations is also gettingbigger.
True, true.
Because the higher you grow, thehigher the requirements and

(01:52:42):
people want to get to you.
So so you're tech lead in that.
Yeah, so there's that and thefact that you know when you're
building the product you have togo with it till the end
Deploying, monitoring, all thiskind of stuff.
So yeah, in labs we're actuallybuilding some cool stuff Inside
the MasterCard ecosystem.
I cannot talk about thembecause, again, it's all a part

(01:53:03):
of an NDA, but yeah, that'swhere I actually spend most of
my time today.

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
Very nice.
That's cool man.
You know I was later on.
Early on I was talking tosomeone and telling them if I
walk to any tech company inKenya that are set up 70% of the
engineers, or maybe more, Idon't know.
They're part of the community orthey've been part of the

(01:53:29):
community, and it's reallysomething that I'm proud of to
say that really, if you reallyset out to build something, it
works, whatever it is, and thisis just to encourage any African
engineers or Africanvisionaries, whatever you are.
It requires those small acts ofservice that brings us to where

(01:53:50):
we are.
And Victor Abedi is an evidenceof that and what we have talked
about is in the span of sevento eight years.
Yeah, right, so imagine what wecan achieve in 20 years.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
Yeah, there's going to be a lot If we set out.

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
Yeah, and thank you so much, victor, for making time
for these I'm sure ourlisteners and I can see some
interesting names here, big upto namini onazi, from tanzania.
He's a full-stack engineer atvodafone tanzania.
He's logged in.
Uh, I can see sylvia the beds,our devrel at africa's talking.

(01:54:25):
I see jose uh, he's a devengineer at Tesla.
No, no, no, it's an.
Ev company.
You can't call the name, buthe's also a dev engineer at EV.
There's Digital T.

(01:54:45):
There's Roni.
There's ronnie.
There's r2.
There's done, keep something.

Speaker 4 (01:54:49):
There's peter there's a baby himself you're just
logging oh yeah, again I'm here.
I'm here to take up questions.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
Okay, there's jeffrey yeah, there's windy, um, yeah
and uh.
Anyone who has logged in, uh,we appreciate you, we celebrate
you and feel free to come in andask questions, contribute,
become the co-host, it's allowed.
We can hear you, by the way,with our rig, where we are, we
can hear you, we can answer yourquestions.
So anytime you log in, pleasecontribute.

(01:55:20):
But until next time, maybe weshould hear a parting shot from
Victor Abedi.

Speaker 4 (01:55:26):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean anybody who's trying toget yourself into this software
space.
It is a beautiful place to bein.
All I can just say just putyourself open to learning.
Again, any good employer wantsa good employee who adds value,
not to come and collect salary.
Take your time, Take your time.

(01:55:48):
I know there are guys in theecosystem who are big names
You've probably heard of them.
But then don't use that as adrive to be where you want to be
.
Rather, use that as achallenging factor to set
yourself up to where you want tobe.
And, yeah, just take your timeto add value.
I think my parting shot here isadd value to your employer, add
value in whatever you.
My parting short here is addvalue to your employer, add

(01:56:08):
value in whatever you do and usethese tools to actually solve
problems and things are going towork out for you.
So from me here in Kigali thiswas actually beautiful, by the
way, and thank you so much guysfor hosting me.
I appreciate it.
No worries man this is just astart.

Speaker 2 (01:56:23):
No, worries man, this is just a start.
There's so much actually youcan talk we can even dig deep to
DevOps and what it means, forsure.
Chaos Engineering introduced byone and only Netflix.
Yeah, but if you're an engineer, out there.
Check out Netflix Engineeringblog.

Speaker 4 (01:56:37):
Yes, they actually have a YouTube.
They have a YouTube.
No, they have a YouTube, yeahfor the engineering team.
So if you don't like reading,log into their YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:56:44):
They have some good stuff they have these engineers,
so from a pony.
So I quote one African proverb,and it goes by.
By the way, I borrow this ideafrom spice FM, fm, oh yeah,

(01:57:08):
those two guys, three the threeguys, those guys.
But if ready was like that,they really give some soberness
in radio and things are actuallyindicate you big ups to the
spice FM in the morning everyday.
By the way, check it, checkthem out.
I'm not like advertising them,but I find they're really
addressing some cool stuffthere's.

(01:57:30):
Ndu there, I don't know who else.

Speaker 4 (01:57:32):
I know there's a Nigerian woman who lives in
Kenya.

Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
It's the one, I think , whose name is Ndu.

Speaker 4 (01:57:36):
Yeah, and then there's who.
There's that old guy I'mforgetting his name.

Speaker 2 (01:57:41):
Now that I'm looking for it I've forgotten.
But big ups to the Spice FMMorning Show.
You're doing an amazing job.
So our parting shot.
Proverb is smooth seas.
Do not make skillful sailorsSmooth.
What Smooth seas?
Do not make skillful sailorsCare to explain that.

(01:58:01):
This means, in other words, welearn and grow when times are
tough, through adversity.
And, by the way, there is nostory that actually exemplifies
that than yours.
And the lessons learned can beapplied to make things smoother
and easier the next go around.
If you never experience aposition, how can you begin to

(01:58:22):
understand what works and whatdoesn't?
There are teachable moments.
Embrace them as such, learnfrom them and move on.
Actually, there is no truerproverb that can speak to most
software engineers in the worldyeah, beyond africa, more than
this problem quite I don't knowwhere it comes from.
I think the spice fm says whichcountry but of course we'll get

(01:58:43):
there.
I just wanted to share that withyou and without further ado.
My name is michael.
You are always from africa'stalking uh podcast, retold
impact masters podcast, tellingthe stories as they are across
africa.

(01:59:03):
We're telling it wrong and anduntil next time, subscribe, like
, share and comment.
We'll be hosting more moversand shakers in tech across
Africa.
It's just a start.
Bye, thank you.

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#42 - Victor Abedi

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