#46 Breaking Barriers: Charles Oduk’s Journey from Struggle to Innovation

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, welcome once again.
Welcome to impact masters.
In collaboration with uh.
Africa's talking Africa'sTalking is a communication

(00:38):
company providing USSD, sms,airtime, mobile data, empowering
developers across Africa andmaking sure businesses are
scaling.
Today is a beautiful day, theday of the Lord, and today we

(01:04):
have one and only Prince CharlesOduk.
The man himself A mechatronicsengineer, project manager,

(01:25):
senior consultant, techentrepreneur, iot expert, public
and motivational speaker.
This one guy will tell you canstart a chicken business using a
feather.
You need that courage to buildwhat he has built so far.
Charles Oduk is branded aserial innovator.
Charles is a world-winning techentrepreneur with diverse
knowledge in the tech startupand internet of things iot

(01:48):
ecosystem.
He has managed to build iottech innovations from scratch
through all six stages ofproduct development to the
market today.
Technology is his passion andhe wishes to venture deeper into
understanding how he can createa difference in the lives of
other people across the worldusing technology.

(02:09):
Charles Oduk believes inchanging Africa in our lifetime
by building sustainablesolutions that address the
problems we face as continents.
Especially now, with the fourthindustrial revolution, where
technology is widely open sourceand available, young people

(02:33):
need to be empowered to believein their dreams of changing the
African story.
How are you, charles?
I'm very well, sir.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
You good, very good.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, that's what is on paper.
So I like starting with that.
For the people who are going tosearch you up, I'm sure this is
what they're going to see.
But ideally here we like tostart all the way back and come
chronologically to where we are,and I would like to know where

(03:04):
did Charles Prince Oduk started?
You know, when I hear all thosetitles being mentioned about me
, sometimes it's really like youknow those Obama stories you
just want to read and writeabout.
Charles is Charles Oduk is?
I don't know.
They call, they say he's a jackof all trades, but I think I'm

(03:27):
literally almost everything.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
So when I look back to how far this journey has been
for me, it's been.
I'm one of those people who sayI'm self-motivated.
So some few things that peopledon't even know about me.
I was born in the slums, Okay,when were you born?
There's a slum in Eldoret calledLangas, so much as my place of

(03:51):
birth.
On my certificate it's writtenMigori, my mother.
Actually, we did live in theslums for quite a while.
I had an elder sister whopassed away when I was three, so
those are stories that are noteven known out there.
So I have actually lived thelife of the highs, the lows, the
ugly, the beautifuls, the peaksand the lows.

(04:12):
I've literally almostexperienced everything as young
as I am, and one thing that lifehas taught me is you keep on
learning.
So, I was born in the early 90s.
I was the second born in ourfamily and at the time I was
literally born in poverty, so Ihad a first-hand experience in

(04:34):
poverty.
My mom literally used to hookgroundnuts njugu in primary
school in a primary school AgaKhan Primary School in Kisumu
and by this time I was literallyan infant.
So she would carry me along andthen, as life would have it I
don't know what happened betweenthem and my dad they split and

(04:57):
then my sister got sick.
My mom was not able to affordthe hospital bills and stuff, so
my mom passed away was not ableto to afford the austral bills
and stuff.
So my mom passed away.
I I'm sorry.
My sister passed away, sorry um.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Your mom is still there, though yeah, my, my mom
is still there she's, she'sliterally my biggest support
system.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
I can, I can, I can imagine how proud she is.
Oh, trust me, my mother isliterally uh, I, I'd rather not
have an entire literally uh, I,I'd rather not have an entire
million people supporting me,but my mom, just your mom, yeah
nice, yeah so, um, so we I grewthen from that, from that time
when my mom and my dad split um,my mom moved to somewhere

(05:36):
called kinder.
It's a remote village somewherenear like victoria.
To be honest, I don't even knowwhere that place is Until today
.
Until today, there are certainplaces.
Once you've walked, you're justlike I'm done.
So at the age of six, I wasalready fending for the family
Do you know what?
I was fishing.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
You're a fishmonger.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Fishmonger is someone who sells the fish after the
fishermen come.
Then I wasn't a fishmonger issomeone who sells the fish after
the fisherman come the day.
No, no, then I wasn't afishmonger, I was a fisher boy,
you will call it.
So I will go fishing with, withmen who go with fishermen, and
whatever my salary will be onepiece of fish, what?

(06:21):
Yes, so you will go fishing atnight.
So at night, yes.
At night, yes.
So at this time my mother isselling omenas and some other
things in the market, so in theevening we'll come and combine
and then we have our food, andmy mom was really really really
hard working at that time.
She just wanted everything tokeep on unfolding for her.

(06:43):
She just wanted everything tokeep on unfolding for her, and I
remember when she was able totake me to school, I was
barefoot and then I had too muchshillings.
You know those two things yeahbecause of malnutrition?
Yeah, so I never, literally, ifyou asked me.
I never had a childhood, so Iremember one very specific

(07:06):
experience which was really,really nasty, something that I'm
actively working against withevery kid I ever come across who
is, you know, in the children'shomes or starving on the
streets.
There was a time I was fromschool, so one thing that my
mother would do is she wouldleave some amount of money to a
local restaurant, the Kibandaski, and when I'm from school

(07:29):
barefoot, I will pass by there,but she will tell me in the
morning so, charles, you justpass there, eat and then you
come home.
So this day she didn't leave,she didn't leave the money and
she didn't tell me, and shealways told me, if I don't tell
you.
If you didn't leave, she didn'tleave the money and she didn't
tell me.
And she always told me if youdon't, if I don't tell you, if
you didn't don't.
Hey, mia was starving okay so Iwent to this hotel and I told

(07:52):
them.
Here is the thing my mom saidshe hasn't paid but she told me
to eat.
She'll come and repay later, soI ate okay and then so later
that evening when my mom wascoming from work.
So the hotel owner called mymom and she's like Charles said

(08:14):
you'll come and pay when youcome back.
But then my mom is like no, no,no, no, no.
Today I didn't leave any money.
So the hotel owner just lets mymom go.
Like okay, sour, I was beatenby your mom, no, by the hotel
owners.
These guys fetched me on thefield.
You know, my mom is like okay,sour, maybe you guys did it on a

(08:34):
friendly or I'll not pay yeah,so my mom just left, not knowing
what was planned.
I was beaten at the age of five.
I was beaten like a thief.
Hey, from that day on I waslike me.
I don't think I will ever, everin my entire life, look at a
starving kid and judge them.
Yeah, so up to date, I thinkthat's part of what I do.

(08:55):
Yeah, I'm an advocate for forstreet in kid I mean feeding
street kids yeah children homeyeah and all that stuff, maybe
just a way of reflecting backfrom where I came from and where
I'm headed.
Yeah, so gradually as time willpass by.
After my sister died, it almostbroke my mom.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
At what age were you?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
My sister died in 1996.
So at that age I was four, Fouryears old.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
I was four.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
No, actually 95.
I was three and I remember whenshe died my mom had got
remarried to a drunkard, so youcan imagine my mom was being
beaten every day and we wereliving in a mud house at the
time and it's my sister who willtry and hold the.
I don't know if that should bemy dad, but yeah, whoever he was

(09:47):
, and and and for me, I willjust cry because I mean, I'm an
infant.
I don't know anything going onso my sister died when my mom
was still married to this guy.
Okay and um, when when thathappened, my mom completely
changed, it broke her, she wasdone with life, she was
excessively suicidal.
When she tells me all thesestories, I think my mom has, I

(10:11):
think she's even a survivor thanI am, because one of the
stories that my mother ever gaveme nowadays that she looks at
me and she's seeing me on TV,you know, doing rounds all over
here and there traveling she'salways like do you know?
I was supposed to get rid ofyou during birth.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
What.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yes, so when my mom was in the hospital giving birth
to me, the doctors found a lot,lots and lots of traces of
poison.
So she was trying to killherself while she was pregnant
with me.
So she was asked what was goingon and she couldn't talk.

(10:46):
So all those traumas, those arethings that I think my mother
went through.
And when my sister passed away,she was like I cannot continue
living here because my son willalso die as well.
So she ran away, went back toher mom, my grandma, and then
that is together with you.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, together with me.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
We lived there for a while and then she disappeared
again.
So she completely left me andmy grandma.
So I grew under the watch of mygrandma, who was very, very
strict.
There is nothing that will keepthat woman.
She will put you back to life.
But I think that's where my, my, my push for you know,

(11:29):
basically trying to find mypurpose in life, started.
So I didn't know where my momwas.
Uh, there were stories goingaround that my mother is, uh,
turned into a prostitute.
I wouldn't even play aroundwith kids around me guys will be
like quote unquote and trust me.
at such an age it's reallyreally devastating because you

(11:51):
don't have your bio dad.
Your mother was remarried, thendivorced again and then now
she's disappeared.
So all those things are justhitting me one by one.
I remember one of the things Iused to do is when my peers were
going to school.
I remember one of the things Iused to do is I used to do a
little dance when my peers weregoing to school.
I remember that very, veryvividly well, and part of my

(12:11):
stories are usually coming fromthe people who are closest to me
.
So my mother was born in afamily of 13.
And that's from just mygrandmother.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
My grandfather was a polygamist he had a home and a
couple of other wives, andthat's from just my grandmother.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
My grandfather was a polygamist, so, yeah, yeah, he
had a home and a couple of otherwives, but from my grandma
alone.
They were 13.
And all of them are still alive, by the way, wow, yeah.
But, she passed away in 2022 inNovember.
God rest her soul.
So when I was growing up I kindof hated everything about life.

(12:47):
I think I've seen all thebitterness.
Those were some of the lowestmoments of my life.
When it gets to Christmas,maybe I was walking barefoot the
entire time.
During Christmas they would buyme slippers so that you can look
presentable when the Nairobiare coming in.
So that was my life presentablewhen the you know what were
Nairobi are coming in for the.
So that was my life for quite awhile, until around 1999.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
My mom one day just appeared, and so she left you
for a period of four years.
Yeah, she left me for a periodof was it four?
No, not not exactly four years,because this was 97.
My, my Two years, then Twoyears.
This was 97.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Okay, two years, then Two years yes.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
So she came back, and one thing I remember is I
wasn't even able to deduce whoshe was.
I was confused Like Auntie Tony, no, auntie Tony Niule.
Auntie Jackie.
Auntie Jackie Niule, I'm like,Because you're too young to.
Yeah, I'm too young and I'malready going through enough.
So and then she says I'm yourmom.

(13:46):
Wow, so I'm just like wherehave you been all this time?
No, I couldn't ask thosequestions, of course, because
you know you're a little.
So, mom man and my grandma isthere, and you know my grandma
the disciplinary committee isjust looking at you.
So.
So one thing that she did isshe came.
I remember on that day she came, she took a couple of pictures

(14:08):
of me.
Those are some of the picturesthat I hold very dearly.
Then she went again, and thenshe promised me she'll come back
.
I remember that day I wascrying terribly and it was
raining.
So she disappeared again, butthis time not for too long.
She came back with, uh, britmzungu.
Yeah, so the only thing that Iknew at that time is that my

(14:32):
mother was in the was in mombasa, so we didn't know what she was
doing.
So whatever was being saidabout me, you know at that age,
when you're being told that yourdad is a thief, you'll believe,
because you don't know wherethey are so whatever was being
uh branded about about my motherand all that stuff.
They were just hitting me likeokay, so it's actually true that
you're in Mombasa, but then, asthe story will later come on,

(14:55):
one day she just came back withthe Mzungu and they were engaged
.
They were in the process ofgetting married so in 2000,.
They officially got married.
So my mom picked me even beforethe wedding and we started Lee.
We went to live in Mombasa, soI can actually say it was from
that point that I startedactually seeing life.
Oh, like this normal life, yeah, like the normal life I was

(15:16):
always living under yeah so, andthis is at around age 8.
But trust me, if you even lookat my pictures from the wedding,
I wasn't happy even wasconfused like is this going to
last or just for a period oftime?
because you know you're alreadyused to people leaving and
that's part of my life.
I've always been used to peopleleaving.
I will not lie.
I have proper trust issueswhere maybe if you come in and

(15:40):
say, steve, you're my bestfriend, I usually even say I
don't think I have a best friend, I just have a quintessence.
I was even telling Asiela just afew minutes ago.
And so, as life would have it,I started.
Now, I started going to properschool, and this was in Omabe.
But remember, we're living inMombasa, so you had to go to

(16:02):
Omabe for school.
Yeah, oh, you're from Mombasa,yes, and I was.
Let me tell you something I'venever been a day scholar in my
life.
So always boarding, always awayfrom family, okay, yeah, so I
never had that personal touch ofknowing you know, dad, parents.
Maybe I did feel a bit of mymother because she was there for
most of the time, most of thetime but that connection with

(16:22):
fatherly love, that was neverthere for me.
Yeah, so I remember at SanguAcademy in Huma Bay, I was
barely eight, nine years, andone thing that will happen is
I'm being told go, somebody'sgoing to pick you at the stage.
So that's what will happen,until one day a terrible

(16:43):
accident happened.
I usually call myself a miraclebaby.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
The kind of things I've survived.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
So in this, bus or In this bus.
These buses were called theblue, the brown buses, linear
coach, I think.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
They were called linear coach.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
So we are traveling from Houma Bay and it's end of
the term and we reachMtitwandeande and then, all of a
sudden, the driver losescontrol and hits a baobab tree
and I'm seated at seat eight.
That is, at night or during Atnight?
Okay, I'm seated at seat eight.
Yeah, from seat one to seat six.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Everyone died.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Everyone died, yeah, so they sent another bus.
So my mom is already waitingfor me on the other side,
because, you know, at this timethere are no phones.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
No phones, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah, so when I reached there it was around 2.
We were already six hours latefrom the arrival 2 in the
afternoon, yeah, 2 pm.
We were supposed to havearrived by 8 am.
Yeah, so my mom picks me andthen she's given the whole story
and she's like, hey, no, Idon't want this depression
anymore.
My, my son will just have tocome close to us.

(17:51):
Yeah, so that's how I moved.
I changed schools to somewherein Mombasa, okay, so somewhere
called Chuda yeah, and we wereliving in Nyalie my stepdad the
bridge.
He was a teacher at MombasaAcademy.
Mombasa Academy is the versionof Nairobi Academy, the same
school that Taidi High is actedon.
So we live in the southernquarters and that's where,

(18:14):
basically, I had my primaryschool.
So it was a good ride.
One thing about everything, allthis history that I had gone
through and this is somethingthat everybody says, Everybody's
usually like where it's acliche If you have gone through
all these things in life, youcan never back down, and that's
I think there are people whocall me ad-waki.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Shoot you yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
I don't know how to go back.
I don't know how to, because Iknow where I'm coming from.
So one thing that I to go back,there's literally nowhere.
I usually pray and tell God bythe way, it's either you or I'm
nothing.
So one good thing that I did dois, once I got that opportunity
to step into school, I put inmy day, I did the big work.

(18:56):
So, I got my 375 marks in.
KCP.
But at this time mom hadstarted getting sick.
I remember when I was in classsix.
She had to relocate, so that'swhen I relocated to.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Migoria.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
So she built her own place.
So I was now again left on theother side of the world.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
But at least at this time.
Was he your stepdad or justalone?

Speaker 1 (19:20):
My stepdad has actually moved.
Got another job in Dubai so hehad to travel there.
My stepdad has actually moved,gotten another job in Dubai?

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh, okay, yeah, teaching job.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
So he had to travel there.
Yeah, we will see him everythree or six months.
Okay, yeah, after three or sixmonths.
So my mom will do farming,which she does to date, still
living in the same home to date.
So I finished my primary school, I got my good grades and then
I remember when we finished waswhen the PEV, the post-election

(19:46):
violence, was going on 2007.
2007, yes, so getting into highschool again was another issue.
So we struggled and then inFebruary I got.
In which one were you invitedin?
Kanga High School.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Kanga is in.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Western or.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
It's in South Nyansa Actually.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I wasn't called Kanga High School, to be honest,
because of the PEV, I was calledto a school in Mombasa called
Kamis Boys.
But my mom was like that's notyour level.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I know how hardworking you are.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, you can't just go into that.
Earlier I was like, hey, mom me, Basile me, just go repeat.
First of all, I was not happywith that 375.
Okay, you wanted to get over400.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I mean I wanted for 50s.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I wanted to appear in magazines, but my mom is like
no, this is what the Lord hasgiven you.
You could go back there and getto something, so just take.
That's why I was telling youearlier my mom has always been
my biggest supporter.
Even when I was feeling down onmyself like I'm just a loser.
So I went into Kanga HighSchool for the first four years,
but then I think in high schoolis when I started realizing

(20:50):
there were some traits from mypast that were haunting me.
So and these are the really realsad stories about my life.
I think that's when I realizedI'm a depressed person who
doesn't know how to even tellpeople his story.
So I will laugh with you, butthen, deep down, I'm hurting,
disconnected.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
So I remember during dawns the morning preps.
Yeah, we need.
Kanga High School is a nationalschool, it's a national school,
so it's a very strict school.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
If you do not appear for those remedials, they
usually do a counter check andthey suspend you.
So I used to get suspended andguys are like what is really
wrong?
Because you're not suspendedbecause you're using drugs or
alcohol?
You're just found sleeping Me Iwas taking to oversleep and die
Because you're always thinkingabout all this trauma.
Yeah, and I just wanted toescape from reality and I didn't

(21:44):
know that that's what is calleddepression.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
To be honest, you never know.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
So you're just in some sort of deep thoughts.
Everybody is misunderstandingyou.
To be honest, it even got to apoint where my own mother
stopped.
She didn't understand meanymore Because I wouldn't talk.
I was the quiet kid who wasjust looking at you and then I
let you go and then later on Icry on my own.
Life moves on, but when itcomes to school now I wasn't

(22:11):
also disappointing after goingthrough all that.
So you were the guy who hadstraight A's throughout not
exactly straight A's.
I do remember one of thesetimes that I was caught with the
pills because I was trying tocommit suicide.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I tried committing suicide three times in high
school.
By the way, which form were youin?

Speaker 1 (22:30):
At form two At form one and form two, form two twice
Form two.
It was twice because there wasa time I totally slid I was a
designer from 50 to 100 andsomething you started feeling
like there's no future here.
Her father comes from Dubai andsays I pay for your fees for
you to come here and give methis.

(22:52):
So it was a chaos.
So you can't imagine when aMzungu is making noise in a
black school and you feel likeyou have disappointed this man
who for once stood for you as adad.
Yeah, I really did feel bad,because I'm trying to explain
this story in my own way, butthe words are not coming out.
I just started crying.
So at that point there was ateacher called Mr Moses.

(23:14):
Mr Moses was a CRE teacher, buthe would just say I think
there's something you're goingthrough and you're not talking
about it.
So at that time I startedtrying to explain what life is,
and I think he's the firstperson to actually tell me your
life is yours At the end of theday.
I know you're too young tounderstand this and, yes, I was.
So I remember one thing andthis is not to paint his name in

(23:36):
a bad way my stepdad actuallydid tell me that I would never
make it in life During thatconfrontation, and I was really
really hurt.
So I was really really hurt.
So I was like you know, he hasalways known that I wanted to do
aerospace engineering and I didmention to him that, if at all
I can get a scholarship to go doaerospace engineering, I would
be perfect.
Then he tells me yeah, you cando this.
So when he came back and foundthat my results were

(23:59):
deteriorating, he was like thisis what you want me to get you
scholarship in Imperial CollegeLondon for you can't make it
with this.
Like this is what you want meto get you scholarship in
imperial college london for youyou can't make it with this.
Hey, that was like it was abreaking moment, but it was also
a turning moment.
Yeah, because after that day Iwent back to the books.
I got an a from from my highschool.
I wasn't joking anymore.

(24:20):
So I got out there, much as theaerospace thing Was still in my
head.
My dad said this is notpossible.
We don't have this money.
It's really really damnexpensive.
I remember at the time it wasaround Nothing less than 200,000
To study it abroad.
That is per semester or no forthe whole course.

(24:40):
So I also remember we haddifficulties Even getting me
into campus.
So me I was told we don't havemoney with your good grades for
the whole course, okay yeah.
So I also remember we haddifficulties even getting me
into campus, so me, I was toldwe don't have money with your
good grades, so things were abit tough afterwards.
By the time you were completingyour studies.
Yeah, you know, we are nowthree.
There is my sister and myyounger brother.
So your stepdad had otherchildren with your mom.
Yeah, so at this point, youcan't just stand there and say

(25:04):
you know.
So everybody was just like weare really trying to understand
how we can help, but it's reallygetting hard on us.
So with your grade and Iremember that was also a
breaking point versus a turningpoint my dad goes like you know,
you can just go to a localcollege, start any career and
then you can switch later on inlife.
Hey, I jammed man.

(25:27):
I mean I told them you thinkthis is a joke.
I got on a bus and came toNairobi.
That was the beginning of mylife On your own, on my own.
Yeah, I did come to Nairobiwhen almost everyone was against
me.
No, your life is going tochange there.
You're not going to be the same.
You're going to get into messybusinesses.

(25:47):
You know the Nairobi half-lifekind of thing I was given that
Me I told mom it's better I gostart struggling right now than
wait for you guys to make yourdecision whether I should even
go to school, well, I'm justhere.
You did not get an invitationfrom any of the investors.
I did get an invitation fromEagleton, okay, but now it's not

(26:10):
even about the Eagleton part.
It's not even about theEagleton part Me.
I was called to do aquaticscience and I'm like that's what
I love.
Eagleton, eventually, is anagriculture-oriented university.
That's what I love, because Iknow Igatot Benjale is agri,
agri oriented, agricultureoriented university, and they do
even agriculture engineeringand stuff like that, and I know

(26:32):
they call guys who are daysbuses, aerospace engineering
yeah but yeah, I think one ofthe reasons why because I did
apply for JQUAT.
After I knew that my aerospaceengineering stuff is gone, I did
try for the TUC At the time itwas called.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Kenya, poly Kenya, poly yes.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
They did have that course, but the aeronautical
version was Diploma Most ofthose courses were.
They really had good diplomacourses and with their diploma
you can actually go and it wasthat good.
So when you say they had, Itotally understand.
But I put them as a secondoption.
The first option wasMechatronics in Jquart.
I didn't get a calling for that.

(27:11):
Then Electronics EngineeringJquart Again not called for that
.
Electronics in KU not calledfor that.
And then Aerospace in TUC notcalled for that.
And then now you know, when allyour options are exhausted they
usually just throw you anywhere.
So yeah, they did call me atEgerton, but they called me at
Egerton because I got an A inbio but a B in physics, much as

(27:34):
I was so much into tech.
I was literally an engineer way, way when I was way from young.
And for mechatronics they lookmore on physics and math.
First of all, I think one ofthe qualifications I don't know
if the system has changed, butone of the qualifications during
my time was you must have atleast an A plane of 81 points.
I had 74.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
That is for mechatronics, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
So that's for the government to sponsor you.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Oh, jab Jab Jab, yes.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
So I didn't qualify, though nowadays it's called
other names.
Help, koops, koops, kubs,kuccps.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Before it was Jab Joint Admission Board.
I love Jab than the other one.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
The other one has so many conditions.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
I think I also love Jab, much as I didn't get the
other one.
I have so many conditions.
I think I also love Jab much, asI didn't get there but I could
see my fellows.
It was straightforward actuallyand you could revise.
You had this option.
You could revise your courseeither in the same university or
another university, if you findmaybe first semester you know
this is not it and then you askthem if everyone who was called

(28:45):
for the other course you knowthey made the quarter Because
you see some other guys go toHarvard, you know Oxford, others
Cambridge or Stanford, and thenmaybe they have a few slots
there, and if you had passed andyou didn't make it just by a
point, it doesn't make sense todeny you that chance.
Yeah.
So I told my peros Manze hey,the kind of things I've been

(29:07):
through, I'm not going forsomething I don't want to do for
the rest of my life.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
So I'll just go to Nairobi find a life for myself.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Start the life.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, so I went started with ICDL and I was at
IHRM.
At the time it was at theNational Bank building.
I was living with my cousin andthen gradually I started
adapting into Nairobi life,which was difficult.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
I moved into Nairobi.
What did you find difficultabout Nairobi?
Were you welcomed?

Speaker 1 (29:36):
officially.
There is nothing that.
How did they welcome you?
First of all, I won't mentionthe name, but it's a very close
person to the family who told me, by the way, you know my mom at
the time he told me, when I goto Nairobi.
I asked my mom, can I leavealone?
And he was like we want you soyou find a way.

(30:00):
So I called one of my relativesto basically take me in, which
he did, but I didn't know whatwas part of the package.
Part of the package was when Igot into HRM for ICDL, I talked
to my mom again.
I think these were one of theworst times that I had a very

(30:23):
poor relationship with my mom,because we were struggling to
understand each other a lot.
Um so, um, so, uh my mom.
I talked her into sending mefair, yeah, attend classes.
So me I didn't have food.
Still lunch, what, what, what?
I will get like 200 per day andthat's enough.

(30:45):
But then that's my fare fromMaradima to Tao.
So there was one day she justsaid let me be sending you 2000
every two weeks.
But who is my relative?

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Can I?

Speaker 1 (31:00):
be oh, give me this money, I'll be giving you.
On that day he said oh, you'vealready paid me.
I give you this money, I'll begiving you slowly On that day.
That day I gave him that money,the man returned to his level
properly.
He was angry with your money.
He was angry with my moneybecause it was a weight.
Tomorrow I'm supposed to go toclass you, you, you're eating

(31:20):
here, we're charging you.
So he's a gentleman.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
We are friends, by the way.
That's why I don't want tomention his name.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
This could really ruin a lot of things, so life
got a bit difficult.
They were also having issues,internal issues in their home
and.
I didn't want to.
You know, come in there.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
So they used to live like a family.
Yeah, it was a family.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's still a family.
So I moved out.
I went to stay with anothercousin of mine who was also
again having issues.
Hey me from this point.
I went to stay in Githurai.
Hey, boss Up on the SasaNairobi, I'm starting to get
tired.
So you know, I'm attendingthese classes at ICDL.
I'm pretending I'm happy, butdeep down, man, I'm hurting like
nobody's crap.
What happened in Githurai?

(32:03):
In Githurai, I used to live ina house that's half of this room
and we were sharing it with alady friend who is our family
friend.
At some point she got depressed.
That pressure was on me.
So you know you can't doanything, you're in your own
house.
But then I was patient enoughto understand what she was going

(32:25):
through right now she's reallydoing good.
So I stayed there for aroundtwo months, and then I moved to
another cousin's house and thenluckily I got.
By the time I was getting outof my cousins in Mara I had
applied J-Quart.
I applied I'll go on an SSP.
I did not tell anyone.
Remember this is self-sponsored.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
These guys told you they don't have money.
Also, you don't have that cash.
I just went with my head.
I said I'll go with this later,Look guys.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
And that is exactly what I did.
Something had just told me I'mgoing to get accepted and I was.
So I said, hey, mom, somethinghas happened.
I need to come back home.
Please send me a fare.
Then I went, I presented themthe letter.
I told them I went to Nairobito start a life.
So here are my documents.

(33:18):
Here's the feedback from theuniversity.
These guys want me there.
So what are we going to do?
It was a back and forth, I'mtelling you.
It almost even split the family.
Everybody's like.
Why are you doing this withouttelling us we don't have a good
society.
We don't have For Igaton, itwas Jab right.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah, Igaton was Jab.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
And the thing is, every person who was my stepdad
literally assembled people tocome and talk to me into just
accepting that I need to go toIgaton, all of them.
Okay, you know there.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
I shut down.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Because I knew what I wanted.
Then finally they said okay,fine, that's how I started, so
every semester was just like.
I hope next semester I'll be inschool.
And I never even failed to gofor even a single semester.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
But one thing I always knew me.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I'm not dropping, but I'm curious.
So when you went to this firstyear mechatronics, you know
there's what people hearmechatronics as before they join
the course and when they joinedthe course and when they joined
the course for you, how was it?
I think one of the scariestpart of mechatronics before I
even got there, because I had toresearch.
Aerospace is gone, so I had toresearch the next thing that

(34:33):
will come close to aerospaceengineering and then I see
mechatronics, so I startedresearching.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
What is this thing?

Speaker 1 (34:40):
oh, this is the course where people build
electronics and drones androbots and stuff, and I'm like
okay okay, sounds cool, so Icould still end up in the
aerospace field.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
And it was there.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
I mean, this is my route to aerospace engineering.
I was literally obsessed withbeing an aerospace engineer.
So, but then life will have it.
Later on, you can find, myinterest is actually not even in
aerospace.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Me.
I'm into building tech products, tech stuff.
So there was my table full ofelectronics.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
And me Circuit board and whatnot, yeah, and to
theaters.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
People throw them away Me.
I end up as a savage Wow, Iremove the electronic parts and
then I build something nice upover there.
Luckily at the time Jquart oh,it's still there.
Actually, there is somethingcalled JQuad Tech Expo.
So JQuad Tech Expo is where you.
I can see alumni shaking theirheads vigorously.
I think one thing that Iusually upload that school for

(35:39):
is that was the platform.
That was like literally mylaunchpad, because I could go
there and see how people arebuilding nice things to robots.
The first year I applied Ididn't get, so I went there to
see what's really happening.
So that's where I started.
You know, drinking from thefire, I was programming
literally.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Starting from 101.
That is year one, year two,that's year two, that's year two
, that's year two, that's 23.
And that's when I started.
Then I said this is now where Iwant to be Aerospace buy.
It's been real, but I think Ifound what works for me and from
then I had always beenappearing on the Tech Expo and
it kept on building me.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
To some extent you are featured, but you'll get
there.
That's where I started gettingattention.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
So the first project you built was it was called
Automatic Farm Arrest System.
It was a very conventional wayof you know a cage coming
underground for bank robbers.
So you know arrestautomatically when they step
into a place that they are notsupposed to step into.
It did work.
It did work, but it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Implementation is yeah, implementation.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
and investment wise I mean Kenya and Africa.
We are struggling with verybasic things.
Those are the things that wedon't know.
So then I went into drones androbots, and I think that's what
Jquot has always known me for,until today.
The prince of robots, so I willbuild a lot of them and present
Though I never won any award atthe Tech Expo, but I got to meet

(37:04):
really, really huge profileguys Darshan, chandaria, bitange
, ndemo, olive Gashara, I thinkWilliam Ruto as well.
At the time he was, he was avice president, yeah and then
there was this big exposure thatwas organized by JICA where the
Japan Minister for Science.

(37:25):
It was big, so that's like thefirst big publication I got.
Well, but I think one thing toalso mention, just in case it
will ever appear somewhere onrecord much as it looks like I
had a perfect life in campus, Iwas still struggling with
depression.
In fact, on my final year, infifth year in 2017, february, I

(37:49):
was diagnosed with severedepression.
I was even admitted Ten days.
Wait a minute, you're thesecond guest I'm hosting and
they're talking about depression.
I'd like actually going a bitdeeper on this.
What is depression?
Because, even for you.
You can actually imagine whenyou're suffering through all
these traumatic experiences orpost-experiences.

(38:12):
You could not just point it andsay this is depression, but
just paint that picture for some.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Maybe someone might be going through it right now,
but they don't know what it is,they just feel tired, sleepy.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
I don't know how it is, I've never gone through it,
or maybe I'm going through itand I don't know how.
Can you actually say, okay, Ineed some medication.
Attention of psychiatrist visit.
I think I'll actually agreewith you, because for me, I also
always just thought this is amood swing, a small thing that

(38:44):
comes, and let us be honest witheach other, guys.
Yeah, the fact that peopleusually say man, man, man, me,
me, me, I advocate for men'shealth, mental health to be
specific.
Um, I know this one is going toget me questioned, but me, me,
me, fan kubo sana americs youknow america, people hate
america because he speaks thetruth.

(39:05):
But on the other side, if youactually look at what he says,
usually he's advocating for menstanding up for themselves,
because for us there's nobodywho goes down to the street to
protest for us.
Everyone expects you to show upeverybody else expects you to
be the good person every day andin fact nowadays the society
has gotten it so obvious that ifa man publicly says I'm going

(39:25):
through a hard time, then you'rea sissy.
Wait, wait, go sort yourselfout.
But the reality of things iswhen you're going through this
thing it's a very toughexperience.
This thing is bad.
I remember when it was hittingme in my primary school in my
high school.
But what is it?
What is this thing?
Yeah, how do you feel?
Yeah, that's where I'm comingat.

(39:46):
So when this thing is coming,or rather when it's stepping in,
it just steps in like a smallmood you just don't feel talking
to people.
So that's why I think I wasgoing through it in high school,
but I didn't know that that'swhat depression is.
Of course we will study mentalhealth, but, but in campus is

(40:07):
when I knew what was going on,like I can't sit to even watch a
movie for more than 10 minutes.
My mind is just thinking of itsown thing, how I'm a failure.
I've never had a life.
People always look at me likeyou know, somebody who just
doesn't deserve to win.
At some point I was just likewhat is it that I'm not doing?
And some, sometimes, I do tellyou.
I will tell you, even in myadult life, as as big as I am
right now, sometimes it's justthat right now I know what it is
.
So when it's coming, I usuallyjust either find a way of, you

(40:31):
know, dodging it or somethinglike that, or suppressing it.
And that's the most importantpart, once you've already
realized that you're a depressedperson, find a way in which you
can cope with it.
So, depression comes indifferent forms.
It so depression comes indifferent forms.
It could come from things thatare related to your childhood

(40:52):
which.
I think were majorly mycontribution to mine.
But how do you know that you'rea depressed person?
First of all, you don't do thethings you commonly do.
You don't want to take calls.
You don't want to hang out withfriends.
You feel like you just want tosleep the whole time.
You don't want to take calls.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
You don't want to hang out with friends.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
You feel like you just want to sleep the whole
time.
You don't want food, you'reliterally forcing yourself to
eat and at some point it hitsyou so bad that if you're now
into drinking which I was whenit gets to drinking now, it's
bad.
So if you're drinking, you tendto drink more than that.
In fact you drink, for it'slike an escape route.
Yes, it's a coping mechanism.
Does that also apply to otherdrugs?

(41:29):
Yes, it does.
I just thank God that I nevergo to any other drugs.
Yeah, because you tend to usemore to just escape the reality
yeah.
And I think that's a very bigfactor, for it's a very big
contributor as to why most ofthe youth right now are going
through depression yeah ornaskiya's gene is so, and so is
nowadays using drugs.

(41:50):
Now you see, everybody willjudge you when they see that.
Let me tell you another thing Inever do if I see somebody's,
uh, excessively addicted tosomething, I never judge those
people yeah, because you neverknow, maybe they're going
through something they're going.
They're going through a lot ofstuff about their life, so I
graduated.
But wait a minute Before wemove away from the depression

(42:12):
part.
So how do you address this?
Once you realize maybe, okay,the way I'm feeling, it's not
normal.
Where do you start?
I think I'll just go with mymethod.
One thing I did realize is Iwas so much engrossed into what
I wanted to become.
So you start getting obsessedliterally with what you want to
become.
There's somebody who once saidin a podcast like this she said

(42:36):
it's a she and she's a Kenyan, Ijust don't know her name.
I was going through it onTikTok Juzi and she says if you
want to be rich, you have tostart thinking like you're
already rich.
And that's where I started.
So I was just like, hey me,tomorrow I could be the next
Bill Gates.
You guys will be seeing me andadmiring my work and things like

(42:56):
.
Even traveling was once a dreamto me and I started just saying
, no matter what, I know where Icome from and the graph for me
will never be flat or going down.
It will always keep on rising.
So whenever I feel low and Irealize, wait, this is
depression stepping in, thefirst thing I do is what have I
not built the babegi?

(43:16):
What have I not built?
I need to add something.
We need to build V3.
And Kidogo you just realizedsix hours have gone into you
thinking about this to productand something.
And you just realize six hourshave gone into you thinking
about this, this two product andsomething.
For some reason, I justdiverted your attention into
something completely different,but to some extent you feel like
you don't want to talk.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
And at that point I usually take long walks with a
lot of music and all drives.
That's when I when I used todrive Kitabu I still drive, but
I don't have a car nowadays.
This chief is a TSI club memberwith some shares and you know
TSI.
If you know TSI, it's a goodcar.
You can move.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I think that focus Actually when I was coming to
Africa, stalking in 20, when Imet Sam Gikandi in 2018, towards
the end yeah.
I was going through a very hardtime okay.
I was depressed again, okay,but this time around I stayed
one of my, my worst years in myentire life.
If you, if I would rank them,that would be 2022, will rank
them, that will be 2022, 2023.

(44:24):
Last year was really bad.
And then 2018, 2017.
So when, towards the end of theyear, I remember I was coming
from a very disastrousrelationship.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Last year no 2018.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
I was coming from a very, very this is after school,
after graduation.
Yes, I had graduated.
I had even gotten to work.
So, I was Actually.
You did really well in yourmechatronics engineer degree I
tried.
Don't, don't, don't talk aboutit Like it's just.
You know, I graduated.
The dude got a second upper,which is really impressive for

(44:58):
me as Jquot public university.
Actually, that was top of myclass first class in some, you
know, I don't know Cambridge orHarvard or something yeah.
Jquot alumni.
Here they are killing me withthe agreement.
There is a Jquot alumni in thehouse.
When I refer to Jquot alumnisome other person who is not on

(45:18):
the camera, but is a Jquotalumni yeah, I mean we are
Jquots we love you guys, jujama,yeah, we love you guys.
Jujamaika.
Who doesn't love Jujamaika?
Yeah, so I think one thing thatI totally beat against the all
odds is when I was going intofirst year.
Everybody told me there is noway you're going to escape

(45:38):
Uvutabangi.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
I was told where's the hair path.
This is Jujamaika, that's true.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
I got out there without a single puff.
You, I was told where's thehair path.
This is Jujza.
I got out there without asingle puff.
You didn't meet anyone.
No, I did.
Even my neighbours would make alot of noise when they're
smoking.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
But you just chose not to.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
I don't know, I never got that interest.
But, alcohol nayan takubari.
Because at some point I waseven misusing.
But, I hear, like you know, ifyou take a lot of alcohol, bangi
is not the best.
I see, for some reason, I don'tknow, true?
I don't know People in thehouse.
Is this true?
This one must have taken a lotof things, but if you observe,

(46:16):
by the way, there's somecorrelations there, but it's not
entirely factual or scientific.
But if yeah, I don't know, youmight tell me.
I'm not the best guy to reallysay anything about that, but if
you really indulge into alcohol?
Really will you find the fun inmarijuana?

Speaker 2 (46:36):
So you choose your poison.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
basically, I'm saying again I'm not the right guy to
really tell you this.
I totally, I totally, I don'tknow the answer to that, so you
never indulged in that?
Yeah, no.
So you thank God for that.
I thank God that I strugglewith alcohol only and I know
also you know marijuana inJamaica.
Some of it is laced with otherconcussions.

(47:01):
So that means you might getyourself into other drugs.
You know, trying to, yeah, Ithink I will admit I have taken
that thing.
Hey, I remember there's a roadtrip we went and we were given
to cookies.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Mimi, I'm eating Finally.
Finally, Mimi, I'm eating thesetwo things.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Nikijua niku Cookies, Bro.
We are going to NaivashaTulifika.
We reached a supermarketsomewhere just before you get to
, I don't know, just slightlyafter a kennel I was melting.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Which kennel.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
This kennel is a thicker road.
I was melting.
You went to Naivasha through akennel.
Sorry, not Naivasha.
What's the name of it?
Abadeas or no?
There's a couple, nanyuki.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Sorry, Nanyuki.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Not Naivasha.
I keep on forgetting Forconfusing you.
It must be the cookies.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Hey, hey, by the way tell people.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Edibles are more, more long lasting and severe
than smoking.
We got there, everybody longlasting and severe than smoking.
Everybody is just like I toldthem guys, I do not take this
stuff.
Why will you do that to me?

Speaker 2 (48:12):
so they never told you before they never told me
and I took two.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
I'm told that stuff you just need to pinch.
It was bad.
You don't know how you got back.
Yeah, but one thing I willadmit the feeling you're back is
a very unique one.
It's not like alcohol.
You feel like you can doeverything.
You feel like flying, mara,kidogo, kidogo.
And you know we are riding on abus and everybody is checking

(48:38):
at me and me because what isgoing on?
What am I feeling this way?
There's something wrong here.
I could be damned if you did.
You know one or the other.
It's more available there thanany other place I know of.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I think that's my basic early career journey.
Of course, right now I'm a bitgrown up.
So you said you graduated andthen you got into a relationship
a bad relationship.
Actually, the relationshipstarted when I was still in the
university.
I've gone through three severebad relationships In the
university, not in theuniversity in my entire life,

(49:21):
okay.
And the most recent one endedin 2022, October.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
But the one.
Ilea Kampa said that one almostkilled me.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
What happened?
Hey, bro, it was bad.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Well, see, you know, things are just not working and
I also know I'm coming from abackground where a lot of people
leave me Okay, I'm survivingthrough a lot of trust issues,
yeah, so anything that you'lltrigger, anything that the lady
will trigger that will affect mylife one way or another, will
definitely get bad for me.

(49:52):
Now, most people who know mystories of course I did have
friends who will see how badthings will- get for me at some
point.
Much as you may try to hide itone or another.
People usually find out.
There's something wrong Peopleusually say that I tend to date
wrong ladies, and I think that'swhy I've been single since then
.
Wrong in terms of they're nottrustworthy or Like I don't know

(50:13):
.
I usually, when I'm starting todate, people come as if they're
just drunk, they're in trouble,and then gradually you start to
have more problems.
Now you see, the thing with meis, if you're my person, mimi,
literally chances of you knowingalmost everything about me is
very high.
You literally know, even when.
So you put everything on thetable.
Yeah, now the problem is andthis is so bad In fact I was

(50:35):
even saying today in the morningthat I'm mentioning on this
podcast Human beings are verybad people when they realize
you're vulnerable, mimi, I'vegone into places where people
respected me, but the minute Itook a small fault these two
things you just start realizingdisrespect, and then now with

(50:57):
your trust issues, it makes itreally really bad.
You know, sometimes peopleusually treat trust issues as
something that is extremely bad.
You should feel bad aboutyourself that you have trust
issues.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Some of these things we are not.
You never chose them actually,yeah, we never chose them.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
These are things we are living through and we have
to accept Maybe not accept, butwe have to and they have shaped
you who you are, yeah, so it'ssomething that actually, yeah,
and I agree with you 100%.
It's something that, actually,if people could appreciate and
that's why, actually, we do thispodcast like for me, I believe,
most like 99% of the mostbrilliant people in the world or

(51:34):
the most successful people inthe world, they have a story
that, if you heard about it, youwould actually understand,
believe and learn or look atthem differently.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Like you'll be what and know.
Actually, this shaped them towho they are.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
So we start appreciating those journeys and
not judge people based on theirpast and how life shaped them to
be.
We could actually grow together.
I'm not saying it's a goodplace where you have trust
issues or you take time to trustpeople or you realize people
are hiding things from you andyou're like oh, and I was up
front with you Then that way youcan be able to collaborate more

(52:09):
and grow all together.
Yeah, I think that is entirelytrue.
Especially, I think one of thetoughest lessons I came to learn
is you're easily used if peopleknow your weakness.
Mimi was used.
Hey, you know me.
Nowadays I'm not afraid oftelling my story.
If you want to call me Sisi,call me.
Easily used if people know yourweakness Mimi was used Me.
Nowadays, I'm not afraid oftelling my story.
If you want to call me a sissy,call me.

(52:30):
I'll be fine with it.
But it's better I say my storythe way it is than live with a
lie, true true.
My most recent relationshipended severely bad because
things went south for me when Ileft ETI.
So financing was not that good,yeah.
So this person essentially cameto you because you're doing
good, yeah, basically that wasit.

(52:50):
I was on top of my career,literally when she was coming
and I was being featured on KTN.
And then one day, you know, oneway or another, things happened
and investments were no longercoming for startups around AT,
so you're forced to exit yeahand you know much as I really
did fight with accepting thatthings were done yeah and I kept
on saying no, it something isgoing to come up and it was

(53:13):
tough it was tough.
I I went back into severedepression and drinking early
2022.
Yeah, early 2022, it was bad itwas.
It was terribly, terribly,terribly bad to the extent that
I was almost diagnosed withliver cirrhosis.
I was told I could literallydie of alcohol.
What Poisoning.
Yeah, I was taking too muchintake, like mizinga ka tatu

(53:35):
iligwa si ishu kubwa kuango in aday.
And then I think I started.
And here, mizinga you'retalking about mizinga, I'm
talking of k, I'm talking ofHunter's choice Me.
I was escaping things that werealmost Killing me.
You walk next to people andguys were like what man I can

(53:56):
imagine?
I was here At the tea, so Ididn't know this was Going on.
So let me ask you, charles, haveyou considered quitting?
You know the drink?
I literally don't thinkhappened.
So let me ask you, charles, nowthat you're talking about this
have you considered quitting?
You know the drink?
I literally don't think.
Let me tell you this and I'llput it loud on speaker the
problem is not alcohol Iliterally need.
I think.

(54:17):
For me, my restoration startedMarch 2023, last year when this
relationship was now over,because I took a lot of time to
actually get over her.
But one thing I started fixingwas my mental reasoning.
Where are you positioningyourself when you're going
through a hard time?
But, kaka, you and I know, evenif you go to marry you know,
wed someone and everything awoman might wake up one day and

(54:39):
say you know what?
Even they will not say you, youknow you'll find someone.
Just moved, you just go to usand do your day-to-day and then
by the time you're going backand I have a friend who actually
took his life because basicallythat so.
So this is serious.
So that's what I'm saying.
If you know for sure, ifsomeone maybe you know, betrays

(55:00):
you, because that's what youfeel Like someone betrayed you.
It reminds you of the processesbefore that.
A lot of people left in yourlife, no one was showing up for
you and the only solace is drink.
So are you more safer whenthere's not that drink
altogether?
And you have made that Becausethat's mental strength, of
saying okay, this is my weakness.

(55:21):
Whenever I feel down, I run tothis and it makes my life worse.
Why don't I just stop italtogether?
Because, anyway, alcoholdoesn't add much value in
anyone's life, right, yeah, so,but I see like I'm throwing you
off.
Eclipsia is also something thatyou have thought about, but
ideally, maybe I don't know.

(55:42):
But it's up to you, man, youknow everyone says any reform
starts with it let me ask you doyou drink yourself rarely?

Speaker 2 (55:50):
yeah, okay, same here .

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I rarely nowadays drink, but I do drink on a
social capacity.
You know, at the time I don'thave my choice of drinks.
Oh, I see, so I'm not concernedwith a guy who drinks.
I think that's why you startedyour statement by saying me I've
never gone through depression.
You know, depression is like aman who says now I want to be
numb.
Literally, you look at time yousay why am I not getting there?

(56:13):
I don't know.
You're seeing like your entiresuffering is just getting more
and more.
So the next thing you want todo is drink to to pass out.
Yeah, but I started working onmy mental capacity.
I started seeing all thesethings I've been through in life
.
They were supposed to pick, toframe me in such a way that I'm
supposed to realize my truepotential and also realize why I

(56:35):
exist in the first place.
Bro, my reasoning completelychanged.
Like it completely changed tothe extent.
If I see a problem right now,I'm like ah wait, this, this is
something that I'm just gonnaget over tomorrow.
And it actually happens thatway because you know, initially
your brain is refusing to wakeup.
Yeah, but I know you've seenthe kind of things you've done.

(56:57):
Yeah, me.
Sometimes I just get calls whenI was coming here.
A Patel there's a lady who cameto me and was.
She was like Prince Charles,see your, I can hug almost a
minute.
I'm like sorry, who are you?
I follow your work on Facebookand I think you are motivating,
and you're motivating even myson, who is in high school.
I'm like these are stories thatnobody like.

(57:17):
There's some level of changethat you're doing outside there.
You're going through stuff andyou don't do it.
You don't know how many peopleare depending, or rather
following, your story.
So I started realizing that Ihave a purpose, and my purpose
is to first find myself, and byfinding myself is to never let
what is external affect myinternal.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Ah, nice, looks like you're doing a good work.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
I just had to, because from around March by
then it was just like you knowyou're saying I'm done, this is
no longer going to happen for mylife, I've seen a lot of change
.
Yeah, and man, I've seen you doamazing stuff actually from
that March, because I think wewere to do this podcast, I think
late 2022.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
And I declined because I didn't see you anymore
podcast, I think earlier inlate 2022.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
And I declined because but I didn't see you
anymore.
Yeah, I declined because I wasgoing through my stuff, my
moments, but right now I'm in agood mental space.
A lot of opportunities arecoming in.
You guys will be seeing a loton media and I think all this is
just opening up because Idecided that now I want to be
very intentional and everymorning for those who have, for

(58:29):
people who follow me keenly, Iusually post at least a word or
two of encouragement.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Because you never know, is it on?

Speaker 1 (58:35):
social media.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yeah, on social media Just.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
LinkedIn, but on stories, Okay.
So WhatsApp, Facebook andInstagram, and some people
actually come back and say youcompletely changed my life with
your way of reasoning.
Guys are usually like what didyou do?
Because there were people whosaw me going through that and
they were like how did youmanage to solve this entire
thing?
How did you manage to shift thewhole boat?
in your favor, but, charles,please take us through.

(59:00):
You know, most young guys andeven old guys actually go
through a lot of breakups andthey treat it as betrayal and
both gender actually Becauseeven if you leave a lady, she'll
still go through the sameBecause if they really trusted
you and they counted on you as apartner start even having plans
like how this is going to looklike.

(59:21):
And then someone just says youknow what, I'm not part of that
picture.
Now, what you struggle with isthat man.
Is it me?
You know what's?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
wrong.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
How am I going to replace this picture?
How is that process?
One thing I know for sure isand I usually tell people this
if you find yourself in the sameloop, you're dealing with the
same problems every day.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Then just know you're not growing.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Every day there has to be a new challenge.
It is not possible for you tostay in a relationship where
you're fighting over one thingover and over again.
Now the worst part is whenyou're totally attached to this
person and you've never been,you've experienced solitude, so
now you're now alone and theworst part is relationships are
usually I call them they.

(01:00:07):
They're weird.
It's a symbiotic kind of arelationship, but one toxic
thing you're done Because thereare certain people who get
familiar with who you are andonce they do that, some of them
invest in that and I've come torealize that.
The reason why I'm even singleright now.

(01:00:28):
I'm taking my time.
I just want to build my career.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Build yourself first.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Yeah, I really struggled with relationships.
I really did struggle.
Some of them.
Probably I was the problem.
You never know.
Maybe some I wasn't.
But one thing I've always knownis if you're in a relationship
where you're constantly fightingover something, let's say I
don't know, coming late, or evenalcohol, then you realize that
this thing is never going tochange.
You have to put yourself backon the weighing scale and say am

(01:00:53):
I willing to deal with thismore, or is this the point where
I say no?
So for me, I had to say nobecause it was I'm not saying it
was alcohol by this.
She was actually really good,she wasn't into drinking, but
her lifestyle, the way sheviewed life, we were two
completely different people andI know there's usually that

(01:01:14):
bitterness.
But I will tell you, I willtell you, mk, it's not about
that bitterness.
First of all, understand thatyou could be two very good
people.
You're just a mismatch.
You're not compatible.
You're not compatible Becausethat's what I realized Mimi, I

(01:01:35):
know I'm a good person.
Yepi, on the other side, sheknows she's a good person, but
when we come together there'sjust sparks.
So I tried getting out of that.
Now the worst part is, and likeI mentioned there's something
that triggers you.
They constantly use that andthat's why I had to work out,
because I realized, hey, that'sthe person I met when I was

(01:01:57):
really, really good.
I never ran away when she wasgoing through struggles.
I was there for her.
She's going through stuff, I'mthere, yeah.
But then I start realizing thatme, me, karyanguki, and uh,
when I'm not losing stuff, Ilose my car.
Uh, at some point my staff werebeing auctioned but I couldn't
afford rent.
Things were bad after eightyears, after it was really bad,

(01:02:19):
yeah I can imagine, since youguys were so many startups, I
hope other guys are okay heymaybe me, if I I usually just
check up on everyone and say youknow.
And MK, it's not even about thelady.
It's literally all my friends,every single person who knew me
with the kind of lifestyle I had.

(01:02:39):
I used to go to the bar to buya bottle of wine for 20,000,
30,000.
It got to a point where I don'teven have 100 shillings, bro,
100 bob.
Guys are giving me all sorts ofexcuses and these are the same
guys who can go in the eveningSomeone is going to learn from
this.
I hope also you have learnedfrom this.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
You see now why trust issues sometimes is good.
You're seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Because now, if you're buying people 20 G's
worth of alcohol.
I was friendly with everyonewho is struggling.
Once, the time of COVID, therewere people who literally called
me Prince.
I'm sick of these people.
Something has just happened.
You show up.
Prince, please come and supportmy blah blah blah.
Do this.
Prince, please buy at our.

(01:03:21):
You know, I remember there wasa guy my second car, my second
car was a beamer dmw.
I didn't buy it willingly.
My friend was going throughstuff and he was like hey man,
so please just take the car,give me some money if I ever get
better I'll find you back.

(01:03:42):
You give me back the car youcompletely buy.
Man, when it was now my turn,everybody was gone.
Let me tell you, I will lookcontact list young, over 1,000
contacts.
I'm like who can I call?
At this point I text somebody.
You realize you hear, hey, man,bro, it's hard now.
That evening you see a man witha JD In the same place where
you were taking her.

(01:04:02):
What Once and this is somethingI've come to make peace with,
and the good thing is, onceyou're at peace with something,
I do not hold that bitterness.
In fact, when we even meet onthe street and I know I can do
something for you, I'll still doit, much as for you, it was
easy walking out.
Yeah, someone actually beingbad or, you know, being the way

(01:04:24):
they are, should not be areflection of you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
And somebody once said that do not let the things
that you can control affect thethings that, or do not let the
things that you can't controlaffect the things that you can
control.
If you can't control the waysomebody thinks about you, then
control yourself.
So for me, I decided I'm goingto be who I am, not what they
they are trying to make mebecome.

(01:04:49):
Because for a while I wasbitter.
I didn't want friends.
I was just like human beingsare animals.
I better even go and live in thejungle but, in the long run I
was like this is the way lifewas designed.
Somebody once said thatproblems never end, you just get
better, and I think for somereason I've found so much peace.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Dealing with.
You know having to.
I do have friends, yes, but Ino longer put people so close.
So you operate like you, justprince, that's it.
Yeah.
And the other thing I've cometo learn in life we also tend to
give people too much prioritiesthat they don't deserve.
You meet someone yesterday andyou go for a few drinks.

(01:05:31):
You start talking about life inany business and you're like
this is my friend, you're wronglooks like you learned that the
hard way.
I learned, I learned, but itdoesn't mean that you discard
these people.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
True, you don't discard them you just know that
we were reason also.
Yeah, yeah, you just know thatyou meet people for a reason
also.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Yeah, yeah, you just learned that this person, the
best we can do is one, two,three, yes, so, but my life
needs five, six, seven as well.
So this five, six seven, you'llget it from somewhere else.
Someone, yeah, yes, and this is, this is life.
So I don't know the.

(01:06:06):
For some reason I came down andbecause I do have friends all
over, yeah, but no best friendsyeah.
I have friends who I can go towhen I'm having a business
problem to advise me, but thosefriends probably are not the
friends I can go out for drinkswith, and vice versa.
I have people I can go to andtalk about the next journey we

(01:06:29):
are going, or rather the nextflight we are taking for, you
know, a vacay, but those are notalso the same people you can
talk about football with.
So if you actually look keenly,you do have friends who only
fill a particular part in yourlife, and that's why.
I say it is impossible for youto have one person who is a full
package.
It is impossible.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
I'm telling you that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
And if you keep on discarding that, you know it's
good for this and that, but ifyou don't want to associate with
this person, when that timewill come in life where you now
need that person's advicebecause you discarded them,
though you also need to realizeif the toxicity is too much,
then the benefits are a walk.
One thing I never entertain istoxicity and drama.

(01:07:13):
Nowadays, even where there arefights literally even if we are
just drinking as friends andthen fight, you talk.
You guys will just contact mewhen you're done with your drama
.
So let me ask you then, prince,does this you know, focusing on
the positive side of thingsapply to you know, life partners

(01:07:33):
for you or just friends?
Yeah, right now, if you ask meto draw a perfect picture for
the perfect partner, I wouldn'treason the way I was reasoning
in campus, you know in campus wewere free for the first time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
you know there are so many guys in campus.
You know in campus we were freefor the first time.
Please take us through that.
You know there are so many guysIn campus, if you're dating a
beautiful chilebana.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Everybody's just looking at you like, yeah so but
, and that was my problem in myfirst relationship, bro Mimi, I
went for a very beautiful girl,Okay, and guys are actually
praising me on the side.
Hey me on the side hey prince,hey prince, but deep down,
stress, stress, stress, stress,stress, stress, stress, stress,

(01:08:17):
stress, stress, stress, stress,stress.
I'm now going through a hardtime, okay, and I need her to
stay Through this, but she'slike me.
My benefits that I was gettingfrom you are no longer here.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
So, nowadays.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
If you ask me right now to you know, just say what
is my perfect type of potential.
Hey, the first thing is dramafree.
What is this drama, please?

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
create a picture.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Like, right now I'm at a podcast with you.
If I get a call right now, Iwon't pick up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Yeah Me, I've been with people, so that would be a
problem.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Yeah, I've been with people.
That is a serious problem too.
Why are you ignoring my call?
You should have even take.
I'm like, wait what?
And then I realized, as I wasgrowing my career, it was
difficult to balance the two.
I need to attend meetings, Ineed to be with investors at
some point I need to.

(01:09:14):
Life is not just about yeah,life is not just about me being
with you, taking you to IMAX.
Hey, bro, let us kind of plansome.
Let us have a plan and alsorealize that you know, coming
into my life, my life does notcease to exist because you came
into my life.
In fact, in fact, if anything,a relationship, is you accepting

(01:09:35):
me the way I am, me acceptingyou the way you are?

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
It's a merge of the two.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Yeah, it's a merge of the two, Much as there is no
one who has no level of toxicity.
Even I am toxic.
Oh, you're the one who had aproblem when your calls were not
picked.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
My toxicity is there Because now that one I'll tell
you, maybe visit your friendAmelix a bit.
Let me tell you one toxic traitabout me.
I don't want to talk to you.
I'll tell you.
I'm in a meeting Now.
I'm watching TV, yeah.
So some people find it reallyas an escape.
I don't know how to say.
Nowadays I'm learning to.
I never knew how to say no andthat's why I was bullied.

(01:10:16):
After 18, I had lost fundingcompletely.
But, then my chile comes in andsays Manzes, you should go to
Machaoma.
And but then my chile comes inand says where, manze, you can
go to Machaoma?
And I'm like, hey, manze, Idon't have money.
So and then I'm guilt tripped.
Hey, I will be guilt tripped.
So you know what I do.
I go to Talas, manze, by theend of around May May 2022, I

(01:10:39):
was in loans of around 150,000which you don't know how we will
pay yeah, I mean, I just sayit's god because you know, at
the time I was the soleproprietor.
So yeah, actually we'll talkmore about that, because there's
another part of you that wehave not talked about?
Yeah, so I think once I gotthat deal, I paid all my loans

(01:10:59):
and I said enough, wow.
So I just said whatever moneyI'm going to get right now
nobody has control Because Irealized wait, this is my money.
I'm the one waking up everymorning Go and struggle there.
Or wherever you're bringing inwith your demands.
You're not trying, and so theother thing is so toxicity and
drama free, please.

(01:11:19):
Yeah, we will havedisagreements, but we have to
have a mature way of solvingthem, and that can only be seen
during the dating phase.
So I'm not usually in thathurry of where I know today
we're getting married next yearTotal disaster.
So how long do you stay beforeyou get married with Prince?
Right now, if I actually getinto a relationship, two years

(01:11:42):
I'm still young, but it dependson the see because people know
how to, but it depends on theperson.
Yeah, people know how tohibernate who they are.
Oh okay, yeah, people arereally good.
People are so good they can act.
People know how to dramatizewho they are.
Like you know, when someonecomes to you they usually say
what, what in a sheep's skin,something what in a sheep's skin

(01:12:04):
, something like you come,you're an angel and then one day
you know from A to Z, youunleash, you know all the
vulnerabilities yeah where youcan all the buttons.
Yeah, hey, at some point me inthat relationship, my wrong
buttons were being pressed anytime I didn't come.
So, hey, do you even know whatI'll become?

(01:12:24):
You know, at that point nowyou're like, you know you're
chasing a future CEO who's goingto be on Times magazine.
But the reality of things is,if you also give people too much
chances of coming back, theywill use you because, you see, I
was that designer we havebroken up.
You're done two days, bro.

(01:12:45):
I went to look for him first.
He will be the one goingdriving there to him.
So it became a, it became anattitude until one day.
So you know much as you'resaying, hey, manze me, one day
I'll walk away, but the personis seeing you're still coming
back, obviously.
So later on I started realizing, hey, man, I think this life is

(01:13:10):
about me.
So you became a student ofAmerics.
At what point?
I think I've always beenwanting to get this chance of
talking about why I'm a strongbeliever in Americs, not a
strong In everything.
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I want to categorically agreethat I relate with that guy's

(01:13:32):
advice up to 60%.
Okay, that's fair.
There's a time he postedsomething against hey Americs.
If you're going to see this.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Shout out to Americs yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Shout out to Americs.
There was a time Americs saidthat men cannot be depressed.
Men are just not disciplined.
Hey, I went to him in a comment.
He said bro, you have no ideawhat you're saying.
I've been following your post,but today you've posted nonsense
.
If I'm a strong advocate ofmental health and there's no way
you can just say I mean,depression is lack of discipline

(01:14:07):
, that's not true.
I don't know.
He didn't respond there, butsome few days later on he posted
something about how to avoiddepression.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
So at least he listened, he listened.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
He weighed in on my thoughts.
Now that was one case where Idisagreed with him.
But on the parts where Iactually agree with him are some
of the parts where he's sayingdo not entertain toxicity just
because you're a man, don't.
Sometimes I use technical, orrather hidden, language for

(01:14:41):
people to understand, but in thelong run you get.
Now I don't know why ladiestend to hate that guy, but maybe
if I was a lady I would.
But do they?
Ladies do not like that guy.
In fact every time I evenretweet his stuff, guys are like
, hey, where are the Americans?
They hate the guy becausethey're not getting the fare.

(01:15:02):
I don't know.
Let me just say that his methods, his methods are severe when he
wants to talk about somethingnegative, about women, he goes
all the way.
But is it because ladies don'tlike the truth or it's because
people tend?
The society has trained peopleto kind of escape reality.

(01:15:23):
And even right now I don't evenwant to comment on it.
Oh, the one, that where ladiesgo to Airbnb and get killed.
Because you see, right nowthere are two sides of the story
.
Oh, we are women, we are beingkilled, but on the other side,
you're being killed.
On what purpose?
You are in private withsomebody Because they are now

(01:15:46):
saying women went to streets andsaid we are supposed to be
protected, so this is someone'sproblem besides the person who
is in the problem.
Yeah, you are now accusing anentire.
The biggest thing is that youare a cuckoo.
So when you say men are killingwomen and you need, you see,
two people.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Maybe they are telling the government.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
The government should do what, maybe take good care
of them.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Government, you should pay taxes.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Is there anywhere where you usually sign that,
okay, I'm going to meetso-and-so in private?
Of course not, but you see,it's your right for government
to keep you safe.
How, providing security?
Oh my God.
Let's say you meet a lady rightnow in the evening and you go
for drinks and then youdisappear.
How is the government supposedto protect you on that?

(01:16:34):
I'm not defending thegovernment, they're hurting me
in a way right now, by the way.
Or rather, how should anotherman protect you in that case?

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
This is a tough conversation.
It's a tough conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
But now the problem is society is picking.
People are making noise on it.
Maybe the ladies should havebeen here to tell us more about
this.
Yeah, I feel like we are notfacing the real issue.
The real issue is let us facethese facts as they are.
If you're a parent, as your kidis growing up, teach them basic

(01:17:08):
life lessons.
Do not disappear into Airbnbsand private rooms with somebody
you just met online.
People are different.
Somebody is not me and me amnot somebody else, and this also
should cut across men as well.
Over 70% of suicides in theworld are men.
There are people who go out onthe street to protest and you
never, hear us saying oh, youknow, women are causing us to

(01:17:29):
kill ourselves.
We don't do that.
You come down and you settledown and you say you know I need
to fix my life.
And the reality of things is asit looks.
Things are a bit tough on howthe society accepts certain
things.
Mimi, I'm not saying that Iwill never in my entire life
support somebody else beingkilled, woman or man, but there

(01:17:53):
are some GBVs that are actuallyhurting men more in Central.
How many cases were reported ofa lot of these things happening
?
You'd be surprised, not only inCentral.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
It's all over, yeah, but it's just that a man is
conditioned not to say you knowwhat I'm being hurt, or even
there are no organizationsactually to take care of this.
But even right now, if I tellyou to mention three women
organizations you could reallymention some of them, but if I
tell you to mention even one.
maybe for men, you never knowwhere to start, and I think

(01:18:25):
that's where the problem is.
The problem is not that this,this case, is for lack of.
I wish there was a better wayto say it.
These things will stillcontinue happening if people
don't want to face facts, but itshould not.
For me, how I look at it, itshould not be men versus women.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Yes, it should be the wrongdoers versus the innocent
souls.
That is exactly my point,because the fight right now is
against men versus women.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Oh, men, women this way, this way, the reality of
things here is every singleperson is vulnerable.
Every single person isvulnerable.
There is nothing like Mimi.
Because I'm a man now, Mimi, Ican just go into a Airbnb with
somebody and know that tomorrowI'll be safe.
There is nothing like that.
Let us face reality from the dosome due diligence with someone

(01:19:09):
.
Hey, me busing with you.
Me know my shingi life funny.
I wish there was a lady withthis.
I have a couple of questionsaround this issue that I would
love to ask a lady, but nowthere is none, Because over time
I've realized as men, by theway, we overlook a lot of things
.
And one of those things that ourwomen think and perceive things

(01:19:32):
, because for me, yes, I've beenbrought up as a man to protect
a woman.
At whatever cost, but over timethey're willing to be protected
.
Now even you have to ask forconsent for protection.
You know there are all theseunderlying factors that are
coming up that I would have toget some clarity from a woman.

(01:19:54):
But even besides that, I feellike there's more problems than
we think.
Yes, beyond even this killingand whatnot.
It's the way people have beenbrought up.
That also.
We need to take a step back andsay, okay, look, people are
getting killed people aregetting butchered.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
No one deserves that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
Whether it be a woman or a man.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
That is the message we should take out there.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Not that we need to fight this gender.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
That's not going to solve this.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
That has never been what this world has been.
Yeah, apparently.
I mean, I was in Cambridge twomonths ago and those people are
protesting about things that areliterally affecting everybody.
There is no one on the streetsaying you know this government.
They were protesting againstthis Palestine stuff that was
going on the other day and theirdemonstrations were they were.

(01:20:44):
I even posted it on socialmedia, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
the.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Gaza.
Thing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Yeah, it was the Gaza thing, gaza getting, and they
were holding very peacefulprotests.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
The other day it's I think less than a week ago
farmers were protesting againstthe EU.
Nobody went there to make noise.
They're not getting paid orwhat is happening with the EU.
They were complaining of somecompetition, about them not
making money with theiragri-produce and blah, blah blah
.
The EU promised them thatthey'll be buying from them, but
then, I don't know, they'rebuying from somewhere.

(01:21:13):
Maybe it's America or Africa, Idon't know.
I see these guys.
They just took their tractors,they parked them.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
I see these guys, they just took their tractors
and packed them on the road.
That's enough.
Protest the economy stopped.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
You listen.
I like the way the whitesprotest, so were they told.
Like guys, we'll buy from you.
Please take your tractors.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Yes, somebody had to come and address it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
This thing was trending for a very long time.
Sometimes last week those guysjust took their tractors and
this was across almost all EUcompanies.
I mean any countries Germany,france, belgium I'm not sure
about London, but Bulgaria, allthose guys.
They were protesting in a waythat you can clearly tell that
these guys are hurting and ifyou don't correct this, they

(01:22:00):
will go back there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
But let me say one thing before we shift gears to
them All the men who arelistening and all the ladies who
are listening, please stopkilling our beautiful ladies.
You know, Africa's the mostbeautiful women in the world.
Hands down, Please.
That's true, do not kill ourbeautiful women.
Also women do not kill ourbeautiful women.
Also women do not kill ourhandsome men.

(01:22:24):
Let's all live in peace.
If there's a conflict, let'sfind a way to resolve it.
We can go dancing, you know,release the energy, try to
address it in a different way.
Or just, you know, go for anexercise, walk or something that
actually distracts you.
But I know it's not as simpleas I'm putting it, but all, in
all, please.
And if it's not working, justsplit.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
There's no scene in that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
I'm just saying it's not as simple as I'm trying to
put it because I know by thetime someone decides to kill
someone else, there's so muchthat actually happened.
So seek, maybe help, try tolive.
And I know also economy iscontributing a lot in these
issues whereby people aregetting killed.
So I hope we can create moreopportunities, because now you

(01:23:09):
see why we are using you as abetter way of demonstrating
because, those guys.
actually, their worry is notwhere they'll get the next meal,
Whereas we know our sistershere who have graduated.
They don't have a job.
It takes 10 years for someoneto get a next meal, Whereas we
know our sisters here who havegraduated they don't have a job.
It takes 10 years for someoneto get a reliable income.
So they have to go there inAirbnbs to get an extra coin.
Maybe they have siblings backat home who need their help.

(01:23:30):
So there's more besides justsaying guys, stop killing each
other, go for a dance and allthat.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
And those are the issues.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Those are the issues I there are a couple of issues
here and I like you're herebecause with Beba Begi and other
innovations that you have, cancreate even two, three more
opportunities for everyone elseright.
So I'll leave it at that and Iwish next time we get a lady
here to check theseconversations, because for us we

(01:23:58):
can say you know, men are theones who build structures.
I don't know what we arebuilding, the nation Trains and
whatnot, but we never askourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Ah why do we?

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
can disabled people access these, these structures?
You know, we don't think beyondwhat we just imagine at that
particular point.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
So imagine at that particular point yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
But nevertheless, you are an innovator, Charles.
Now that you've, heard aboutyour life and you've built so
many.
You started with robots inschool and there's this product
that I actually knew through it,beba Begi and it's really a
game-changing product.

(01:24:38):
Guys, if you think about BebaBegi, we're talking about a
locker that you can place yourgoodies.
But we'll talk about it more.
But for those who are listeningto us from maybe other places,
I'm sure people have pickedtheir Amazon delivery.
And you get a pin that you keyin your locker and you get your

(01:25:00):
package and close it.
So Charles actually figuredthis before, maybe before Amazon
, or just together with Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
It was the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
I wouldn't necessarily take that credit,
but I will say I'm the one whofigured out how it can work for
over 85% of Africans.
Ah, very nice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
It's huge If.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Amazon was operating here, we would not be.
I'll be waiting for them.
We would not be talking herewithout something to drink.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
I'll create conversations with them.
The only problem is but.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
I hear they're coming soon.
They started with the datacenter, I think, last year.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
So things are looking good.
Man Don't think like it'salways lost.
So please tell us more aboutBebebegi.
How did it start?
You know the wins.
I know you have provided yourservices and the infrastructure
in different events big eventsactually in this country.
You have sold to the government,you have raised funds, there is
an investment in your company.

(01:25:57):
Please take us.
You know people are thinking ah, charles, heartbreak.
You know depression.
No, charles has done someamazing things since he left
university.
Yeah Well, I think my journeyin life was always written even
before I started knowing what Iwas meant for.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Because, to be honest , employment has consistently
failed on me.
Have you ever been employed?
Yes, I've been employed beforeAfrica Stalking twice.
I've also been employed afterAfrica Stalking once.
So what happened before AfricaStalking?

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
Before Africa.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Stalking.
It was just a matter of againstepping down Because I just
felt I wasn't growing.
It was around 2018.
This is when I was actuallybuilding the first prototype
plastic model of the Babegi, andthere was just some push and
pull back and forth.
I wasn't growing, so I was eventaken to the management and
given a warning that you know ifyou do not stop building this

(01:26:51):
thing during.
To be honest, I was workingduring work hours, yes, but you
see, the thing is, this is acasino.
In a casino, when people areplaying, what else do you do?
Some people write code.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
Serve them drinks yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
No, yeah, maybe that's what they want me to do,
so I just felt like there was nogrowth for me, were you a
software engineer there.
No, I was an electronicengineer, so one of the things I
will do is to basically makesure that I'm maintaining the
electronics in the casino.
But one way or another, thereare some very sensitive cases
there.
Oh, I wasn't doing somethingright.

(01:27:26):
You know this competition forranks in enterprises.
Mimi, I've never, ever, sat in aplace where I'm employed
looking up to how we like tobecome a manager, and I think
that's why I'm saying employmentis not my thing, so I quit, and
I quit for a manager, and Ithink that's why I'm saying
employment is not my thing, so Iquit.
I quit for a whole month I didnot know anything to do with my

(01:27:47):
life, until I was called atAfrica's Talking.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
At the time.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
I didn't even know Africa's Talking who called you.
I was called by a lady calledFelicity Gloria, and some guy
called Martin Martin is part ofLake Hub.
He's running a business calledFab Lab Winam, big up, martin
Martin who?
Martin Olo?
Okay, he's the MD at Fab LabWinam.
Okay, so they were also lookingfor a mechatronics engineer to

(01:28:12):
run for them a project.
But then I went there and I washonest enough.
For the first time in my life,in an interview, I told them
here's the thing If you'reemploying me, just know there's
something I'm building.
This is Felicity Bencher.
Gloria Curere, maginolo yeah, Ithink those are the ones I
remember.
Okay, yeah.
So I told them the reality ofthings is I'm coming from this
employment that I'm from, yeah,Because I quit, because they

(01:28:39):
simply told me I cannot continuebuilding my stuff there.
So if that is the case with thisjob, I'll humbly turn it down
and I'll just go back home.
And they said you keep onmentioning that you're an
entrepreneur.
I didn't even know anythingabout Africa.
I didn't know about Africa'stalking labs or anything like
that.
So they're like do you haveanything to show?
So I showed them my website andthey were like wait, you build

(01:29:01):
all this stuff.
So at the time it was mostlyrobotics and stuff.
But Kumbaya, africa Stalking,was building an IoT product and
they wanted some few products totest with it.
So they said, hey, you can't beemployed here, you just come in
as an entrepreneur in residence.
So I helped build the product,the product and at that time it
was just I don't know, it wasjust the perfect timing.

(01:29:24):
So Beba Begi was officiallylaunched in Africa Stalking.
We got some small funding thatwe launched the product with.
So gradually over time we'veseen it grow.
So basically, if there'ssomebody outside there asking
what is Beba Begi, I got thename simply from the fact that I
got tired of carrying my bag.

(01:29:44):
So Beba Begi stands for carryyour bag in Swahili.
So when we went to market, wewere trying to resolve the
problem of people working withtheir baggages in town, an
experience that I and my friendwent through in 2013.
I just didn't know it.
Five, seven, eight years later,I will actually be the one
solving that problem.
So we built smart, connectedelectronic lockers that offer

(01:30:07):
short-term storage as a service.
Who is?

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
we.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Beba Begi team.
So there is Kennedy Jonyo, whoI also happen to know at Africa
Stalking.
He was actually the head ofproduct design in IoT department
and there's Benson Mushemi, whowas building the PCBs the
motherboards called them.
So we later formed a team onthe outside and we've been

(01:30:34):
building the concrete productuntil today.
So these are just lockers, butthen we automate them in such a
fashion that you can use them toeither store or handle
last-mile delivery and over timeit's not been easy.
Of course, it'sentrepreneurship and this is a
startup.
Yeah, so we started off as astorage company, basically
short-term storage for security,but the market has been

(01:30:56):
demanding us to also explore theavenues.
Yeah, so right now we are doingwhat we call last mile delivery
, where you find these lockersin town and you can rent them
from as little as only 1500shillings.
So when you're selling yourstuff online, you just go put
them in the locker.
Then you tell your customer youknow what, go pick them from
the locker and the message issent to the customer.

(01:31:19):
So we've created a differentconversations.
A lot of things are coming up.
Um, we are going to explore theKigali market.
So we got, uh, an interestedparty in Kigali, so we're going
to see how handling last nightdelivery, can you know we can
tap into that market and I thinkit's really, really interesting
because in the long run, we'retargeting the whole of Africa.
Now the question is and Iusually get this a lot what

(01:31:43):
makes you different from DHL andAmazon?
DHL and Amazon have actuallydominated the Western market,
which is good, but you see thewhat's the payment method in the
Western market Plastic money.
Cards yeah, cards andelectronic and stuff.
When you come to Kenya, 85% oftransactions go through M-Pesa.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
Mobile money yeah mobile money.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
So, in fact, if you myself, I do have Visa and
MasterCard, but if I'm in Kenya,I will never use it.
In fact, I don't work with myVisa card.
Why?
Because I know literally almosteverywhere I go, m-pesa is
accepted.
This is a differentconversation when you look at it
from the other markets.
So we launched with M-Pesa, butright now we are working on

(01:32:26):
incorporating both.
In the long run, beba Begi isgoing to be this brand where we
can literally deploy in minutesanywhere on the globe and you
use it.
Because we will now beincorporating both Visa,
mastercard, ip you name it allthose payment methods into one
basket, so giving almost anyonein any location, the capability

(01:32:46):
to use the storage services.
Do you use NFC technology or howdoes it work?
Yes, we use NFC technology, butnot necessarily for a one-time
user.
So we have those guys who arejust visiting town for two,
three days.
They wouldn't need to registerwith us to get the NFC, you can
just plug in your M-Pesa numberthere.

(01:33:06):
You pay via what we call theSTK, prompt payment and it's
automated 100%.
But if you want to become aloyalty, you want to use your
loyalty card, then you can.
And actually that's where thepoint of global, global
expansion comes in.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
God.
God helped me to raise enoughfunding to scale globally.
So we are looking at a platformwhere you can become, you can
have a loyalty card and you.
The only thing you need to dois top up that card, either via
the same M-Pesa or Visa, andthen that card.
Even if there's a Bebebegi inSouth Africa, you just go tap it
and you use it and that's it.
Yeah, so Can Bebebegi be usedfor long-term storage?

(01:33:47):
Because I think also that's aproblem that I've not seen
proper you know solution for it.
Across Africa I see like whenyou go to you know Europe, us,
there's storage.
Even you can go and put allyour furniture in one place,
lock it and then be payingmonthly.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
More like a rental subscription.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
And then when you come back, you can just come to
move your furniture, go in anduse it wherever you want to use
it.
So here right now, if you wantto move, like in Africa, and
maybe you should pay me for thisidea, if you want to move like
in Africa, and maybe you shouldpay me for this idea, if you
want to move abroad, you canonly maybe donate those items to
someone or sell them or leavethem with your relatives, but
there is no place for storageand I think I heard of one.

(01:34:33):
there is a business center alongMombasa Road I was about to
mention that besides that, if itexists, that's what I mean, and
and I heard it from someone whowas staying in an Airbnb.
Yeah, so I'm wondering thatcould be a very big solution.
Yeah, well, it's actually aconversation we've tried lifting
with the storage central theguys along Mombasa Road but that

(01:34:58):
looks like it's for very heavystuff.
One thing the reason why wecan't do heavy storage like I
can't store your furniture foryou is because we do not have a
physical shop, so we use deadspaces in people's offices okay
um, so we do storage, for, uh,the biggest stuff we can store
is, let's say, the tv, that's,that's, that's like one of the

(01:35:20):
biggest items, or a travelingbag.
But if you want to put it in thecontext of long, long-term
storage, yeah, it will not workbecause, uh, we are not in, we
do not have that huge level ofspace, or rather the ability to,
to magnify to that end.
However, the way we will attackthat angle and we have actually
, we are actually in the processof doing that is partnering

(01:35:40):
with people already in thatangle, and we are actually in
the process of doing that ispartnering with people who are
already in that business.
So we give them the tech, so itjust becomes the tech for us,
for accessibility, so you couldbe having some go down in
Mombasa or somewhere wherepeople can store their items
when they're traveling out.
And for us, we only just chargeyou for using our technology to
monitor the whole platform, ifanything.

(01:36:00):
We we are not exactly amanufacturing company.
The lockers, we produce them,though, locally, but we don't
physically take part in themanufacture.
We design, send our hardwaredesign.
So these are the electronics,the lockings, the electronics,
blah, blah, blah.
They come here, we assemble,program them, connect them to

(01:36:22):
our back end and we deploy.
So you assemble them in China.
No, we do not assemble them inChina, we design locally and
then so the whole infrastructure.
It's an IP protected design.
So we send this to China.
China produces, so these arethe electronics, the only place
that's cheaper to produce them.
This to China.
China produces, so these arethe electronics, the only place

(01:36:42):
that's cheaper to produce themfrom is China.
So once the electronics areready, or rather they've been
produced, they're shipped toKenya and from that point we
take over.
So we assemble them, we testthem, we program them, we
assemble with now the physicallocker that we produce from
industrial area.
Our partners, our productionpartners are Ashut Limited.

(01:37:02):
So once that becomes, that goesto the client as a one package.
So now the tech part.
The tech part is the mostinteresting part is not even the
hardware.
I mean well, yeah, well, peoplecall us hardware company, but I
really don't think we arehardware.
In fact I think we are 95%software, because hardware is

(01:37:25):
just the metallic stuff thatyou're seeing there.
But the magic goes.
The magic happens in the lockitself In the lock and the whole
technology, the wholeinfrastructure, how you
integrate M-Pesa and paymentsand all that stuff, and the
ecosystem is looking good.
I see Morris Betza is buildingsome production.
I don't know, it's an industryor something.

Speaker 2 (01:37:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
Morris, there's Gearbox Eroplacer.
The good thing is, Morris andDr Gashigi, these guys are
really friendly.
The good thing with people whoare growing, you can always see
they're not in competition.
They're usually like oh yeah, wecan do that for you.
The problem is, these startupsdon't have issues.
We are always the ones fightingeach other.
The people at the top don'tfight, they collaborate.

(01:38:10):
So Maurice Mbetsa is reallydoing some really huge job.
I applaud that guy.
He's my friend.
That's the same conversation Iwill take to Akina Latif, Dr
Gashigi.
I happen to visit Raspberry PiCenter in Cambridge as well.

(01:38:31):
It's just amazing how you canhear them talk about a product
that comes from Kenya in a placewhere you know Dr Gashigi is
the same doctor.
Yes, we are, we work reallyclose with him.
So it's a really interestingconversation on how
digitalization of creating Imean the use of digitalized

(01:38:52):
solutions in solving Africa'sproblem, and that's why I
usually say tech is my food.
I can feed Africa with it in aheartbeat.
So these vertical conversationsare happening.
The good thing is, a lot ofpeople are starting to actually
understand the importance ofembracing tech solutions and

(01:39:12):
yeah, so there's a lot that ishappening, just like I've
mentioned.
I can't disclose everything,but there's some really, really
interesting conversations.
I think the next news that willbe coming from us is the
partnership we've made withSpotOn Ventures, so SpotOn will
be having that package ofstoring your item if you're
visiting and using theirvacation packages.

(01:39:33):
So you can use the lockersthere their vacation packages.
So you can use the lockers there.
They also have some sponsoredevents where we will be giving
storage as a service and I thinkthose conversations keep on
growing.
And then, like I mentionedearlier, this conversation in
Rwanda is really interesting andI understand you have used

(01:39:57):
Africa Stalking technologyextensively.
Please expand on that.
Africa Stalking technologyextensively.
Yes, please expand on that.
Africa Stalking is a part ofthe sponsor of this podcast.
I think Africa Stalking isalways my home.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
First of all, let's even start with Sam Gikandi
himself.
Shout out to Sam Gikandi man.
He showed up for so many guys.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
That guy Me.
I usually just say if there'sone person I usually pray for.
Asigoye Anguka, no matter.
I usually just say, if there'sone person I usually pray for, I
listen to his podcast and Iinbox him on that day and tell
him boss, you've gone throughall this stuff, even when you're
with us.
You were under that umbrella.
That guy, sam, is literally mymentor and Sam has taught me

(01:40:36):
things in life, either throughdirectly interacting with me or
sharing his stories with me.
The good thing with him is henever he will not sugarcoat
stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
He'll just tell you things as they are.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
So Sam has really come through for me.
Even right now we don't havewe're still at Africa Stalking,
so this is still home for me andI really need to bring it
across that Without I don'tthink, to be honest, I really
need to bring it across that Idon't think, to be honest
without Africa's Talking, wewould be where we are.

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
Our story would not be possible.

Speaker 1 (01:41:03):
We started using all those services from them.
At the time there was Payments,there was IoT, there was SMS.
Literally 70% to 80% ofBebebegi's infrastructure was
hosted here and even right nowwe're still using your services.
So we are heavily using SMS.
We are progressively advancingto USSD in the future because

(01:41:24):
obviously we will want to expandour use cases, and I don't see
any.
The good thing is, Africa isstocking us good footprints all
over Africa, so it gets easierfor us to even expand in another
market, scaling becomes mucheasier.
You can imagine if I have tostart with a messaging company

(01:41:44):
in Tanzania and then another onein Morocco and then another one
in Egypt.
It will be hectic, but then ifyou know that you're working
with a company that is alreadyin these markets it becomes very
easy that's one.
The second part is the kind ofresources Africa's Talking gives
me, even up to date.
The people I interact with Imean, you're one of them and the

(01:42:06):
linkages, the conversationsthat you know lift from one
place to the next.
It's just amazing, I think.
I think this is a place I callhome and it will always be my
home for a very long time.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
For sure, man, anytime be my home for a very
long time, for sure, man,anytime, anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
It's just that sometimes things get busy.
We want more prints in thisecosystem, but ideally we'll
have all our IT users and, youknow, especially devs, because
you know devs actually can powerthe whole ecosystem.
They can power more businesses,but also even for businesses.
You have a special place forthem because they create
employment.
So everyone who uses AfricaStalking, everyone who has a

(01:42:42):
business in Africa, maybeoriginally from Africa or out
there I think that's part of thesolution as you're talking
about other problems that arefacing, including gender-based
violence, and you know, whenpeople are doing business, they
never think about it.
Everyone is like how much did Imake this quarter?

Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
How much did I make this year?

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
But beyond that, there are people who are giving
a job, there are people whoactually wake up every day,
innovate give them that freedom.
There are people who actuallyare living through these jobs.
So shout out to everyone whoactually believes that Africa
business could be sustainable.
They're doing it.
Shout out to all the innovatorsyou know who are actually
building new opportunities, andI like what the hardware

(01:43:27):
industry is doing when it comesto.
You know innovation, so maybe infuture I'll see people like
Moritz Mbeta here.
You'll see Dr Gashigi tellingtheir stories also, because I
know all these guys when you sitdown with them you'll be amazed
.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
Already we had Sam Gikandi.

Speaker 1 (01:43:45):
He's continuing to do an amazing, amazing job.
The other projects that arecoming up that actually we'll be
sharing soon.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
So big up to everyone .

Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
So, Charles, what next for Beba Begi?
But before that there'ssomething I meant to ask you.
You talked about raising funds.
Please take us through thatjourney.
How much have you raised so far?
I go to equity.
What do you need to raise?
You don't have to go tospecifics, but just giving
someone a bigger picture aboutraising funds.
Are the customers the bestinvestors versus venture

(01:44:16):
capitalists?
There have been thatconversation in the ecosystem.

Speaker 2 (01:44:19):
I don't know what your experience is, you know,
venture capitalists, you knowthere have been that
conversation in the ecosystem.

Speaker 1 (01:44:21):
So what are your experiences?
So yes, I will be very honest.
I am fundraising.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:26):
On the lower ticket of a pre-seed.
I've never fundraised before.
Okay, so I'm raising on thelower ticket of a pre-seed at
$500K, but basically this willbe funds that will be used to
scale in Kenya only, okay, fundsthat will be used to scale in
Kenya.
Only the reason why we aretrying to basically reduce it to
that level.
Initially I was raising 1.5,which I still am raising 1.5 on
a larger ticket seed round.

(01:44:48):
This will go to expanding allover East Africa.
But, over time, we've realizedthat one of the things that has
been happening around withinvestors is startups don't get
far, because fundraising is notan easy job.
How many of us even started inHaiti and how many are still
operational?

(01:45:08):
Less than 30% of the startupsare left.
It's basically because we do notget those opportunities, but a
lot of things have been turningup.
There's the Africa Prize forEngineering Innovation that is
actively investing into Africanstartups, and I think it's

(01:45:30):
interesting.
However, I will also be veryhonest.
Most of the funding that hascome into Beba Begi has either
been from our own pockets orfrom the reinvestments we get
from our customers.
So I would say the first optionfor any business is obviously
your customer is the bestinvestor you can have, because
at the end of the day, theperson you need to impress is
not even the investor, it's thecustomer.

(01:45:52):
The investor can give you 10million shillings, but the
market slaps you with with.
We don't want your product.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
Or you don't create value for them, and then they
end up not using you.

Speaker 1 (01:46:00):
So I think the bootstrapping journey has also
come up with a lot, because mostof the time I'm usually the one
even on the ground studying howthings are and gradually you
start realizing that even if youwould have had money earlier,
you wouldn't have learned allthis stuff.
So I'm fundraising, and I'mfundraising in more or less two

(01:46:20):
or three ways.
One, there is the crowd,through the VCs and the staff.
But there is a model with theBeba Begi that is called a
franchise model.
The franchise model allowsanyone at a wherever you can
invest in Beba Begi right now,if you have $1,000, you just
basically put in and then youhave a locker of your own, you
deploy it to an area where youwish, or you let us deploy it.
Have a thousand dollars you justbasically put in, and then you
have a locker of your own, youdeploy it to an area where you

(01:46:42):
wish, or you let us deploy itfor you, and then you earn from
the locker.
And the good thing is, youmonitor everything on your phone
and we take care of everythingelse so it's some.
It's some form of an organicmarketing and we've gotten two
people already investing usingthat model.
They buy one locker and theysee it's working and they're
like, hey, give give me 10.
So and that's how wecontinuously push the business.

(01:47:02):
So if we can actually push thebusiness when we don't have
funding.
So my dream right now is toexpand all over East Africa.
And I want to do this within thenext two years.
If I can actually dominate theEast African market, then within
the next five years I canpotentially and confidently say
that I'm now ready for theAfrican market as a whole.
And yeah, so in this caseyou're saying if you have $1,000

(01:47:25):
, you can buy yourself a locker.
Yes, from $1,000, you can havea locker station for yourself.
You can even put it anywhere.
If you feel like you need toput a locker at Village Market
for you guys moving in, out ofthe Sarit meetings and the expos
, you can purchase a locker,we'll deploy.
The good thing is we are veryfast nowadays.
We are not like before.
We've already, you know,perfected our skill, so we can

(01:47:47):
be able to deploy a lockerwithin a week from the day you
set up.
You make the initial paymentsand even if you don't have the
full amount, we do offer paymentplans.
Yeah, we can give you up to 10months of payment, very nice.
And this lock has how manycompartments?
So it depends.
We have different versions.

(01:48:08):
There is a version that onlyhas one, another version has 10,
another version.
So for $1,000 you get how manycompartments.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
That question is still relative, because, you see
, it could be just one cabinetbut it has one big compartment,
so it's be just one to you tosay, okay, please give me this
compartment of this.
Okay, I get you, I get you yeah, that's nice, that's nice.

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
So, um, when you're raising funds, what do you need?
When I'm raising funds, what doI need?
See, of course I need the funds.
No, no, I mean mean, like, whatdo you go in front of that
investor with?
Besides, you know we have, okay, maybe you have the product,
like you said, but what else?

(01:48:47):
I think the most importantthing is that my investor to
understand the African story.
The story we're trying to createvalue for Because we are not
going to say that we are such afancy you know fancy business
trying to change everyone's life, but we know there's a niche
that is literally begging forthis solution.
So when we go to an investor,or rather.

(01:49:08):
I would also appreciate ifthere's an investor listening.
The first thing we want you tounderstand is the story we're
trying to create.
It's not even that we have afancy technology.
Okay, we know we are smart, butin the long run, being smart
doesn't it's part of the job.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
Yeah, it's like 10% or 10%.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
Smartness doesn't put food on top of other people's
tables.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
So, first of all, it's changing the African
narrative because, like you said, you have traveled places.

Speaker 2 (01:49:34):
Maybe Mimindo and Meanza could travel A bit, a bit
.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
I see you there.
But the reality of things is weare suffering, yet we have the
skill set here, the only thingis the only thing that I
personally find hard withfundraising is it's very hard
for investors to trust Africanstartups.
I don't know why it gets easywhen there's a person from

(01:49:58):
outside.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
When you have the white, yeah the white syndrome.

Speaker 1 (01:50:03):
They call it the white founder syndrome, but
that's I mean.
I am the one who was born here.
I am the one who goes throughthis problem every day.
I'm the one who understands it,so I think it's a journey that
we need to travel together.
Let's not put it that you knowI'm not going to give you my
money because you're from here.
I'm going to give somebody elsewho can trust you.

(01:50:23):
And it's not been easy, becauseexplaining yourself to
investors and that has actuallybeen a serious part of my
problem, because I'm alwaystalking the customer language,
not the investor language I knowif I talk to a customer, the
chances of customer committingto use my product is very fast.

(01:50:44):
In fact, chances are you won'teven wait for me to finish two
minutes.
You'll be like where are yourlockers?
But for an investor they'll beback and forth.
And now the worst part, andthis is something I've gone
through this is very sad.
There are investors localinvestors who are manipulating
how startups are raising.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
It's a very sad thing .

Speaker 1 (01:51:06):
I will not mention names, but how do you give me a
ticket?
You say I'm going to give you$100,000, but I'm taking 14%, no
questions asked, because yougot $100,000.
Yeah, so would you say?
This is bribery.
This is literally robbing me ofmy company.
Fundraising is a negotiation.

(01:51:29):
Wait a minute.
They take 14% of your companyfor $100,000, or they take 14%
of $100,000?
No, they give you $100,000.
They take 14% of your company,no questions asked, no
bargaining.
So you raise how many times?
That's the question, becauseNine times you have no company,
nine times you have no companyand you have a match a million

(01:51:51):
dollars.
Yeah, so it's just like saying,chief, let me give you a
million dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:51:55):
Forget about this, it's for years, but I'll be
using your technology yourmindset, your IP, everything
that, yes, so I tend to feellike that's robbery.
Are they?

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
Africans.

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Yeah, it's an African .

Speaker 1 (01:52:07):
In fact, I think it's kind of.
But don't forget, even when thecolonizer was here, there were
chiefs.
They were not white, they werenot colonizers.
They were the ones who actuallyused to whip you and sell you.
So all these things.
Actually, if you study where wehave come from, it's very
important to be cognizant ofwhat actually happened.

(01:52:29):
We actually live with them.
We live with their children'schildren.
All these people are there.
Maybe the mindset is still thesame, where they believe that if
anything has to happen in thiscountry or throughout Africa, we
have to get something out of it.
Yeah, so it's so sad to see it,but it's the reality.

Speaker 2 (01:52:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:52:48):
So be careful for any vet out there raising funds or
building solutions.
There are people like that yeah, yeah.
And I think that's the onenarrative in the fundraising
field that I know.
If I can strongly stand against, it's that but do you think if?
africans should, uh, cometogether and, you know, start
investing in ourselves.

(01:53:09):
That's the other problem.
The problem again is there areafrican vcs, in fact kenyan vcs,
but then there are their termsheets and you know the the
conditions of invest, pushinginvestments into you.
It's like they're telling youyou're doing your favor.
The truth of the matter is,when an investor comes into your
company, he's not doing yourfavor.
You're doing them a favor.
In fact, it's a 50-50 kind ofthing.

(01:53:30):
You're bringing in your money.
I grow it, okay, as I growmyself, yeah, as I grow myself.
So, basically, it's not like,eh me, you've caught me on the
streets, you're giving me moneythat's not what I'm doing.
That's.
I think that's a very badnarrative.
So, do you think poverty,mentality, you know,
stigmatization that you wentthrough when you were a kid is

(01:53:50):
still even there, even at thislevel?
Well, I wouldn't look at itfrom that angle.
When it comes to business, Iusually put everything I've gone
through in life candle Becausein the long run the story could
be good, but you could have gonethrough the worst parts of your
life.
But if you're building asolution that creates no value

(01:54:13):
for the African person, yeah.
I trust you, it's a done deal,yeah, and the other thing is the
other thing I will alsostrongly say about investments
Western investors come intoAfrica and push money because of
a good pitch.
It's a very sad story.
And then you push money intocompanies that you have.

(01:54:33):
No, totally.
They are telling you that theyhave done their statistics and
their homeworks and you fall forthem.
And then there's maybe a companytoo up at Chini.
Nobody knows much about it, butit's actually doing things.
So you push money.
I could literally go into apitch with someone else and they
raise Mbele Angu and then theydie after two years Maybe.

(01:54:54):
I've been in the market forthree.
This is my fourth year.
And I think there's not enoughdata or other research that is
put into investments.
Now the final one these guyswho put up a pitch battle in the
name of grant, supportingclimate resilient, blah, blah,
blah.
And this is not specific.

(01:55:14):
Now.
This is almost all of them.
In 2022, november 22nd, I won agrant of $3,000 thousand
dollars.
To date, I've never gotten thatmoney.
Where did it go?
I don't know.
So are we being used to,basically, you know, pitch our
ideas there and then, becauseevery time we we try to raise,
because you founders go througha lot, so when you tell them

(01:55:34):
that you know what you have wonthree thousand dollars and it
will be dispersed to you inthree months a founder is
already writing up that000 andit will be disbursed to you in
three months.
A founder is already writing uphow that money will be
channeled now.
So when you don't give themmoney and the excuse you're
giving are quite lame, ourpartners have not disbursed the
money, and so the question is,were you putting up something

(01:55:55):
that you didn't have money for?
Then that's suspicious.
The worst part is, we've eventried directing this all the way
to the governor, nairobi County.
They say you know, whensomebody says that he wants to
put his money wherever, youcan't control it.
But I'm telling you I reallydid try and argue with them.
I believe you know he recentlyjust resigned.
What was his name?

(01:56:16):
Agola, victor Victor.
Yes, I've had a very, veryintense conversation with Victor
on the same and I did tell him.
Hey, man say you guys need tohave some sort of way of
regulating which acceleratorprograms are being accepted,
Because some of these guys arejust idea mining.
Do they come in with the countygovernment?
No, they don't come in with thecounty government.

(01:56:38):
If you come in with thecompetition called People are
just saying that it's acompetition called Africa's
Talking.
Podcast, For instance you comein and present a few videos of
your podcast and then you'retold you won.
These guys are just I call themidea mining, because if you're
not giving me money, then whatare you doing?
You want to hear my pitch?
You tell me I sent you my pitch, deck my traction, blah, blah,

(01:57:00):
blah.
Do you know it's?
It gets very easy for you tosteal my idea from that.
True, true, yeah.
So I think this is a battle thatI've fought for so long.
Nowadays, I'm just like.
Nowadays, I'm just pitching andmoving.
So I think, because you nolonger believe in it.

(01:57:22):
Hey, startup founders, somegeek.
For you to be a startup founder, you must be crazy.
You're not a normal person, thekind of things you're dealing
with.
So, finally, what next forCharles?
I think we right now one of thebiggest things we are about to
release a version 3 of theproduct, another Beba Begi, and

(01:57:47):
this will see the product havingdiverse use cases that solve
even the problems of the new usecases we are exploring is using
a solar-powered technology forthe lockers in handling
last-mile delivery for freshvegetables.
The problem is right now, evenin Northeastern, is food has to

(01:58:09):
move all the way from central,all the way there, and then,
when it comes to that, peopleare rushing to take it to the
market.
What if we could put the ATMlockers but now refrigerate them
using solar, in even remoteareas?

Speaker 2 (01:58:21):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
considering to partner with Kooza Freezer from
Mombasa.
We were in the same projectwith them Africa's Prize.
We were with them in London.
Well, we haven't entirelyinitiated that conversation, but
there's a conversation going onwith Jumia, but it's a slow one
.
There's a conversation I onwith Jumia, but it's a slow one.
There's a conversationinitiated with Maidawa.

(01:58:44):
We want to use the lockers todispense medicine.
There's a conversation we'vestarted, we've initiated with a
couple of other startups, butone thing that has come into
light is our biggest market isactually the SMEs because, it
takes a shorter time forapproval, and Jumia for lack of

(01:59:06):
a better word, Jumia have beenup to Mekotukiongana for a very
long time.
We've been talking to them since2019 and we're just getting
back and forth, back and forth,and tomorrow a startup in
logistics comes and says we canuse this.
Please deploy it for us.
So that's one.
And then the other one is weare taking lockers to the coast.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
So if you are pirates , you can now work with your
laptop.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
If you know you will be locked there you will not
lose.
Because pirates, you know theycan lock up to over 4,000 people
in a single day.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
But let me ask you something.

Speaker 1 (01:59:41):
Now that you've talked about pirates and the
context, is it possible to carrythe whole locker if you wanted
to take whatever is in thatlocker?
I've seen people actually carrythe whole ATM and go to deal
with it.
Yeah, that's always a question.
I have never, ever gotten intoan audience where somebody
failed to ask me.
If I'm serious, I know what isbeing stored in those lockers.

(02:00:02):
Maybe somebody is sellingiPhones on those lockers, they
can carry them.
That's worth millions ofshillings.
But, one thing that weconstantly do and we usually
tell our customers is we do notdeploy these lockers just
anywhere.
The first thing we do is weconduct a site visit to.
We conduct a mandatory sitevisit to.
We conduct a mandatory sitevisit to ensure the security of

(02:00:25):
the area is up to date.
So we put the lockers in areaswhere it's frisking before you
even get into the enterprise.
So, if we go to Pirates rightnow, we won't put it next to the
water there.
We'll go and talk to KWS, putthem in their offices or talk to
Moonshine, and these are theguys we call agents.
So even right now in Nairobi,with our four spots active on

(02:00:48):
including Africa Stalking, thatwould be five we have to make
sure that if you want to becomean agent, we have to come to
your site.
We approve that.
Okay, security is checked.
There is free skin at theentrance.
We train the agent on how tooperate the lockers in the event
there is any eventualities,because, much as it's automated,
we still anticipate the weirdcases and we try to cut them as

(02:01:14):
soon as possible.
So mandatory site visit is amust.
Very nice, very nice.
So, prince, thank you so muchfor gracing our podcasts.
Thank you very much how was?
your host, michael Kymathi.
Mike is great.
I think taking thisconversation a notch higher on a

(02:01:34):
podcast is really, really great.
I must admit, this is my firstexperience in a podcast.
I've never done this before.
I usually just see peoplewearing these two big things.
Yeah, but thank you so much.
I think this was also.
The good thing with thesethings is you do realize when
you're telling your story, youdo realize what this is actually
me telling my story of how farI've come.

(02:01:57):
So this was very also, you know,informative session on even
finding myself even more.
So, yeah, I do appreciate and Ihope my story reaches out to
somebody who may need it.
They usually say that whateverit is that you've gone through
in life will be somebody's mapinto going or getting through
something hard or a hard timethey're going through.

(02:02:19):
So, yeah, very throughsomething hard or a hard time
they are going through.
Very nice, you want to shoutout to our listeners, fans and
whatnot, and encourage them toshare?
Yeah, I think young people,particularly the youth, I
usually say I'll never stopbeing a youth.
The youth, the thing is, we bothhave we all have stories and I

(02:02:39):
think sometimes trying to tellthe world about these stories
because you tend to feel likethere's some sort of
stigmatization and this is notjust about gender-based kind of
a story you need to tell.
Come out If something isholding you back.
Based on what you have beenthrough, I want to tell you that
I really did conquer a lot ofthings.

(02:03:01):
That and some of them still dohappen, but nowadays I'm just
like this is something I'vetackled before.
So come out of that shellbecause sometimes, like I said,
if you're in a loop where youfeel you're not growing, you
need to start finding a way out,because that loop is remaining
in one place the whole of yourlife is not how you are
predestined to you know, to growbeyond.

(02:03:24):
You'll never realize yourpotential if you're sitting in a
comfort zone so yeah, step outof your comfort zone, find your
place in the world and create adifference.
Very nice, very nice.
So thank you so much again,prince.
So please subscribe, share like.
Very nice.
So thank you so much again,prince.
So please subscribe, share like.

(02:03:46):
This is Michael Kemadi forImpact Masters, in collaboration
with Africa Stalking.
So for me, I've made it a habitto part shots using African
proverbs or proverb from thewise men, wise ancestors, and
today's proverb is Proverbs orproverb from the wise men or
wise ancestors.
And today's proverb is a man'shonor is like an egg If he does

(02:04:07):
not hold it properly, it fallsand breaks.
That's a proverb from WestAfrica.
Until next time, see you.

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